The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Do Mercedes make bad strategy calls?

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

A rare week off this week, so the boys reflect on the Miami GP and are discussing the role of F1 drivers in making key strategy calls. They also talk through the potential of a new Sergio Perez/Red Bull contract, and play F1: Pump The Brakes. JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800- 426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1- 888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Min. $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast, presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. Coming up on this episode, we discuss whether Alex Albin's strong start to the season is the evidence Pierre Gazley, needs to break away from the Red Bull program. Sergio Perez's contract talks for 2023 have commenced, so should that happen and for how long? And we break down Lewis Hamilton's strategy from the weekend and how much involvement

drivers should have over their improvised strategic calls. Sam, I know there was a lot of hype around Miami. A lot of hype around Miami. We did, of course, have Pitbull on the review podcast, completely unexpectedly. But in reality, it's all a preview, right? It's all a precursor to what is the real hype train, and that is heading into Spain in about 10 days' time as we record this. Yeah, famously, the event I look forward to the most every single year.

I cannot wait to go to Circuit to Barcelona. It's got called that. It's called Circuit to Catalonia. It's so boring, folks, that I've forgotten the official game for the racetrack. Sorry, Spain. Do you know what? Australia, the official Formula One racetrack account, Twitter for Australian Grand Prix followed us on Twitter at the weekend.

That is already better than any Spanish Grand Prix. So get out the Canada, Spain. Get out. I just realise as well, for people listening, it won't sound like this, but it's been less than 48 hours since we last did this. We're calling early folks. I'm exhausted of talking to you two. Literally my two best friends who every week I sit there and go, yes.

I get to speak to you my two best friends again, and then you turn after and I go, oh, you're both morons. Much different from yourself, of course, Sam, the enlightened person you are. Zing. Yeah, too right. Yeah, so obviously we've got Spanish Grand Prix

coming up in a week and a half, but we are here on the off week, still with plenty to talk about, as already discussed. Let's start with Mercedes. They, of course, finished, P5 and P6 at Miami. We're going to look at this twofold.

We're going to look at the actual strategy of Lewis Hamilton somewhat, but we'll leave that to one side for the moment. And actually first just discussed the way in which their strategy went down under the safety car. Because ultimately, the decision was left in the hands of Lewis Hamilton as to whether he wanted to pit for fresh tires or whether he wanted to stay out on the hard tires that he was already on. James Vowse saying, we advise saying out, but we'll leave it to you. It's your decision. Sam, what's your opinion on not just this incident, I guess, but also other incidents similar to this. How much involvement, how much of a decision should the driver make versus the team? It's a really interesting one. If you're Lewis Hamilton, sorry, folks, I've just had to move my smoothie away,

because if you don't go, I'm surrounded by pillows. I did not want to spill a bright rig smoothie onto my white bedding. What flavour is smooth? Here we got, Sam. Hold on. It is. It's a naked smoothie, is what it's called. It's called the Blue Machine.

I'm not naked drinking it. That would be weird. It's got in it. Apple, blueberry, and goji berry. Delightful. Good stuff. Harry, what's your thoughts on that? You can see Ben, seething, folks, while we talk about this.

I think of you as well. Because I asked him. Yeah, that's true, yeah. Right, Lewis Hamilton and drivers and strategy. So, yeah, if you're Lewis Hamilton and the amount of control you have over strategy, I imagine that over the last nearly a decade, which since 2014 when they've had that successful car, and they became such a dominant force in Formula One,

strategy calls become a lot easier when the only person that you need to beat on a regular basis is sat on the other side of the garage from you. And that means that any decision that is made for one driver, especially if it is the preferred driver, and history tells us that that more often than not has been Lewis Hamilton, then most calls, even if they're not perfect, even if they're not strategically bang on, will come out on top because the only other person they're conflicting against, the only person they're in competition with is on the other side of the wall. So the strategic team for the whole team can go, just hold off a lap, don't worry about it.

We don't need to create the conflict. And we saw that, right, throughout a lot of the time at the Saga, especially the last couple of years with Bottas alongside Hamer. Hamilton, Bottas was shafted, semi-regular, dropped, left out for too long, left out in the cold, alone crying on old rubber. You know, definitely Bruner over there. He's already, Tom. Now, in terms of drivers everywhere, it's a lot different when you're suddenly finding yourself at the top of the midfield. You've got other teams around you everywhere and a slight slip-up of strategy, including theory, cost you one, two or more places.

And I think this began, the pressure that Mercedes experience began when Red Bull ramped up the pressure. Of course, they had the car to challenge last season. The first instance of this feels like it really came to light in the French Grand Prix, where if they called the strategy right, they probably could have beaten Bastafin, but they got it wrong. The Stauffin was on the better strategy and he ended up beating both the Mercedes teams. And this is happening a lot this year as well.

Lewis Hamilton has regularly been impacted by safety cars. Now, as we saw, and there's a whole transcripts on Twitter. So if you're going to find it, I recommend going to have a look at it. It's very interesting to read. There's a whole conversation. Hamilton is obviously asking lots of questions. And Pete Boddington and James Vowse are all going. This, this, it's this, it's this.

It's this. Bongo for those who need it in short. And you compare that directly to what George Russell had to do on his radio. Where George Russell only got broadcast one message for that whole period, The safety car comes out and George Russell simply goes, I reckon we just stay on the hard tire for VSC or safety car. Now, that sounds like he's made a killer decision, right? It sounds like he's assertively made the perfect choice and it worked out for him that weekend. But I do think he had the easier call out of the two drivers and they were the two strategic decisions that we saw clearly be made on the Miami Grand Prix weekend.

But the question begs how much power should a driver have in their strategy? it's as much as you or they want to give. It's completely hit on miss for driver. George Rosson made the right call. I'd argue an easier situation. Lewis Hamilton looked like he got a little bit flusking, a little bit, not confused, but panicked slightly over the fact that he was going to lose too many spots. And in the end, did lose spots because it wasn't a decisive, quick and immediate decision.

And it shows that maybe the Sesega strategy team has started to be found out a little bit. So, in answer to the original question before the smoothie talk, how much power should a driver get in terms of, making their own strategy calls. It's entirely up to them. Very Harry, you've rather that way of saying things. That's a good answer. Well, as long as if I've already gone to you on this one, Harry, to be honest,

but I'll pass over to you anyway on this. How much involvement, how much control should a driver have over their own strategy when it does have to be set on the fly when things like safety cars come out? It's a really interesting one, this one, because I do think it depends on the type of driver that you've got in the car. And I think, and this is not a slight in any way on Lewis Hamilton here, so Lewis Hamilton fans get your comment writing fingers back in your pockets. But I think he just doesn't think about the sort of strategy.

I'm not saying he's not thinking at all. But if you look at people like, and the one that springs to mind is Sebastian Betel or Fernando Alonzo, they are constantly thinking about strategy. I mean, when he was at Ferrari, Seb was running the strategy from the car, basically. But they're just different types of drivers. So I think it really depends on who you've got in the car because I think Lewis Hamilton

heavily relies on his team to make the right calls. And we've seen in the past and maybe this is where this is all stemmed from. They're not made the right call for Hamilton. I'm thinking Monaco, 2015, when they boxed him and he ended up in third instead of first. So I think he heavily relies on them,

whereas some other drivers, George Russell, as Sam's only mentioned, that in Miami was kind of making a call from the car about strategy. So yeah, I think it really does depend on the type of driver you've got in the car. It can be tricky because I think as Hamilton said after the race, he doesn't have all the information and he trusts his team to make that decision. He's the type of driver that doesn't want to be given. He doesn't want to be given that option.

He wants to be told this is the right strategy, stay on it. And I think if they came over the radio and said, this is the right strategy, you're staying on it. He might have questioned it, but ultimately he'll follow it because I think that's what he's normally done, whereas other drivers may not do. So, yeah, it's an odd one this one, but I genuinely do think it turns on the driver you've got driving your car. As Sam and Harry will know and long-time listeners of the podcast will know, I occasionally write notes ahead of the podcast. Occasionally. Yeah, I usually write a few notes here or there just to help guide me on my points. To give you a bit of insight here as to what I've got here, I've just put this.

No, no, no, no, no. That is my opinion as to how they played this. I think they played this completely incorrectly. James Vals and Bono handing over control over to Lewis Hamilton, and it's not just Lewis Hamilton, obviously the situation applies to him, but even more generally than that, I don't think that the driver should ever have that control to make that decision from a strategic standpoint. I think it's utterly ridiculous. In the same way that I would not trust a strategist to get in the car and drive it, I would not trust a driver to have full control

and dictate the strategy. You pay each separately because they are hyper-specialised. You pay a driver because they are one of the best in the world at doing it and you don't want anyone else to do it. That's why you pay them the big bucks. Exactly the same for strategists. The reason you pay them so much is because that's their field. That's what they're great at. So trust them to do it. Now, I appreciate that advice is important and asking questions to the driver is important because you can gain even more feedback and information than what you already have. So asking a driver, what do you think about this? Or asking a driver, how do the tyres feel?

How do the conditions feel out there? Those questions are not only acceptable. Those questions are necessary for winning championships, for winning races, for building that communication and collaboration between engineer and driver. That is absolutely essential. So I'm not saying that the driver should have no say whatsoever. But it should very much be advisory from the driver with the driver. team making the call and not putting it back on the driver of, we'll leave it to you.

As you've already mentioned, Harry, the driver does not have that overview of the Grand Prix. Lewis Hamilton is sucked into his vacuum of a race. He knows what he's up to. He might know what the driver ahead of him and behind is up to, but outside of that, they have no real control or no oversight on what the other drivers are doing. The team can sit back and say, those hard tires are looking okay. Alex Albin in P13's done a pretty good job on them. Lewis Hamilton doesn't have a clue of that and nor should he because he's focused on his own race. You are armed as a team, as a strategy team with all of the information. Use it. Use it to your best ability. Will it go wrong sometimes? Yeah, it does. It's F1. Strategy will sometimes go wrong. But I guarantee you,

If you put every decision in the hands of a driver versus every decision versus every decision in the hands of a strategist, I'm almost certain the strategist is going to make more right calls than the driver is going to. It is driver dependent. You do want to ask for that advice. But I boil it down to this. If I wanted a seven-day weather forecast, who am I talking to? Am I talking to the guy in the street who's currently drenched, you know, is currently drenched because of the rain? Or do I go to a meteorologist who's got all of the information, has got all of the data, all of the maps?

Who am I asking about a long-term forecast? I'm going to the meteorologist. I'm not going to the person in the street because they're just focused on what they're doing and don't have that overview. Trust your strategists. And if Lewis Hamilton after the race complains that the strategy wasn't correct, fine, you live with it. You aren't going to get it right all the time. You'll get it right more of the time

if you go with the strategist and not the driver. That's a good analogy that, Ben. I enjoyed that one. Just for you. I tried to include as the pizza, but just didn't play out, I'm afraid. I'll work for dinner today. I've moved it.

We're recording a Tuesday. It was just a margarita, but hang a stuffed cheese crust. Did you wash it down with a smoothie? I just finished it off. I just finished it off. What type of smoothie? Hold on.

It's a goji berries. That's a dangerous tea for a man who's slightly lactose intolerant, so. What, you mean just a cup of tea? What you're going about? Tea. No. Do you mean? Dinger?

Do you mean the correct word? Dinger? Yes, it was a dangerous dinger. You're right. I'm with Harry on this one, so you're outnumbered, I'm afraid, son. Oh, hate it. So that's a cultural divide, folks. For those who aren't in the UK, some people will call dinner.

The meal you have at the end of the day, Dinger, and some will call it tea, like a cup of tea. We hate it. but I don't drink tea so I'm allowed to call tea tea right no because I drink tea no Ben's wrong

I'm not getting into the rules of this in terms of in terms of Lewis Hamilton strategy specifically Harry what were your views on that because it's not the first time this year he's been disadvantaged by a safety car but did you think Mercedes did everything they could

I think Hamilton was sort of downed if he did and damned if he didn't on that one because I think either way he probably was going to end up sixth. If they pit him after they pit George, he's behind George

and I'm not saying you wouldn't get past but he would be behind George and in sixth place. They didn't pit him. George came past him and he ended up in sixth place. So I don't know what Mercedes could have done there and I guess that's what led to the sort of questioning from the pit wall to Hamilton

as to what he wanted to do because I don't think there was, I don't think either way would have allowed him, would have allowed him to come out in fifth place. Maybe pitting him would have given him a better chance, but I think it would have been fairly marginal. And I think we saw at the weekend when there was less of a tie difference, overtaking was much harder.

So, yeah, I don't, I think Hamilton has just been quite unlucky with some safety car calls this year. He had the same thing happen to him in Australia, I think, didn't he? And the people that are goal hanging for a safety car, like Russell was and Ocon was, they've lucked in because otherwise they weren't going to finish where they were going to finish under normal circumstances. So yeah, it's tough for Mercedes and Hamilton,

but they've had plenty of times over the past seven years. I think they've probably lucked out in the opposite way as well. So it's F1 swings and roundabouts. I'm sure that the lockers change again at some point. Is that a new game that we've got coming in, F1 swings and roundabouts? Ben, get on it. Let's write that down. We've got pop the brakes coming up tonight later on,

but no, we haven't yet played F1 swings and roundabouts. I like it. I agree with Sam's wider point in terms of Mercedes strategy being under question generally. at this race specifically, I don't think they could have done anymore. Ultimately, the safety car timing, you can say it disadvantaged Hamilton, but it's only really disadvantaged him versus his teammate. And, you know, what are you going to do?

Everyone in the top 10 started on medium tires and everyone came into the pits for hard tires at pretty much exactly the same point in the race. So it's not like Mercedes-Denade's dead on anything drastically different for Lewis Hamilton strategy. And Russell, yeah, he started outside the top 10. It makes sense to try something different. And sometimes that will pay off when you can have a late-raised safety car. Is it a bit unlucky? Yeah, a little bit.

I struggle to have too much sympathy because, as Harry kind of pointed out, he's probably lost one position as a result of this at most. He might not have lost any whatsoever because he might not have caught Mottas if the safety car didn't come out. So it might well be a position where he finished sixth, and he would have been sixth anyway. but at most he's finishing fifth. So two points. It's not like if he'd lost six positions as a result of this safety car coming out, fair enough.

He's lost the position. So I don't think there's much in it. But ultimately, I think it does prove that it makes sense, but it proves that Lewis Hamilton is very much looking towards his teammate here because he hasn't lost out to anyone other than Russell. It's not like Ocon beat him. It's not like Kevin Magnerson who pit late on beat him. the only person that managed to finish ahead of Hamilton as a result of this safety car was his teammate.

So if he's saying strategy hasn't been kind to me, he might well be right versus his teammate, but it very much proves that he's looking at it through that lens. And he's looking at his teammate as a threat, which I think he's right to do. But it's not as if countless cars went past them as a result of this. So by and large, I don't think Mercedes could have done anything else, to be honest. Sam, any last thoughts on the strategy for Mercedes? Yeah, I know I kind of went on a bit of a run earlier, but I actually do think that they need to put more faith in Lewis Hamilton's driving ability. You've left Lewis Hamilton out there on old hard tires where you've given equal machinery brand new rubber with a good 15 laps to go at this point.

You've got to get past an Alpha Mayo in Bossass. And Bottas knows everything about that team and how it works. He knows how to hold off Hamilton. He has done it. Not all the time. Not always successfully. But he has achieved it. And, you know, Russell's there on brand new rubber.

So it's not exactly easy competition. This is Lewis Hamilton. This is the guy that's from over 100 Grand Prix. This guy that's got over well over 100 and whatever it is podiums. This is one of the greatest of all time. Give him the tools, have a bit of faith. And I feel like if they go, chances are Russell is going to overtake him on the new rubber. Okay, well, why don't we already let Russell overtake him,

but then put Hamilton right behind him on exactly the same rubber and give it a go? It's Lewis Hamilton for crying out now. The guy can make something work if there's nothing to lose either way, then give him what he could do to maybe try and claw something back. And I get, I get it. It's teammate versus teammate. We're in the fifth race of the season. You're really not losing much.

But little games and little losses can make for a lot of motivational change throughout a race or throughout a year. So give it a go. Just give it a go. And I think I can't slander them. I can't fault them throughout the race, really. I think everyone is right to say that if you go hang for a safety car, it is a viable strategy.

It can make a difference. It's like gambling. The odds of it happening around certain tracks, will be higher. And sometimes placing a bet on that odd will come out your way. And Lewis Hamilton didn't get the OSCO his way that time, but he could still do something a little bit more. The team can still be a little more risky when there's so little to lose. And that's what I would like to see from them. But I'm not really folding them. I just think that they could definitely put a bit more faith in Hamilton and what he's able to do with a car in the same machinery.

We're going to be looking at Perez's potential contract negotiations heading into 2023 right after this. Before we get going with Sergio Perez and Red Bull for 23, just to note that if you are a first-time listener or indeed a regular listener and you haven't left a review, please do. Unless it's less than five stars

because, you know, we don't want to hear it. We live in our positive vacuum. No, we appreciate all people. Less than five stars. Less than five stars. You can suck it. Look, official company line. I need

Five star reviews to keep buying stuff crust pizzas and smoothies, please. Okay, I get about £4 a week. It comes to that much. How are I order it? Please, five stars. One star literally destroys everything we work for. I can't wait for a lot of four star reviews that say, it would have been five stars until you begged for it.

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In all seriousness, we would love to hear from you, and we really do appreciate any reviews we get. So please, please go ahead and do that. But Sergio Perez and Red Bull, so Sergio Perez's current contract is set to end at the end of this year. But Perez over the weekend did say that negotiations have started for a 2023 contract with the team. So he did also say, just interestingly,

that neither side is in any rush to actually get this done. Or he said, we're not in any hurry, is his official words. So, Sam, do you think that this should go ahead? And if it should, should it be a one-year deal? This was a bit tough because Perez is arguably doing whatever a second driver needs to do, right? He's right there alongside Carlos Sykes. He's ahead of him in the points Cali at the moment, I believe. Angosin has obviously had the two D&S, but it's got like Perez hasn't had his issues so far this season.

So in terms of, you know, getting Red Bull what they need against their closest rivals, he's doing a better job than last year. He's beating his opponent. Obviously, Bottas was his opponent last time out, and Bottas beat Perez. Well, Perez is beating science. So he's keeping Red Bull in the game in the points for constructors. Regularly, either hitting the podium or is in fourth place right behind, as a game we saw with Miami, you'd argue that what war is there that Perez could do?

well, I guess he could stick it on the front row with his teammate more occasionally in qualifying, which would be good. But qualifies have really been his strong point. So unless you suddenly change you Perez's as a driver head to toe this far into his career, which I don't think you're going to, you can't ask too much of it. So you have to look at it as a package for what you've got now. It's everything that Perez could give you now without any improvements, because there won't really be any, what are you needing a second driver?

I would argue, yeah, he's giving you what you need. Do I think there are any viable options on the driver market that would logically come to Red Bull right now that are available? Pierre Gazley is the option. Do Red Bull want Pierre Gasly? It doesn't look like it. Does Pierre Gasly want Red Bull or is he simply using the Alpha Tauri seat as a way of promoting himself to another team for as long as that opportunity will last? I think that's more the viable reason behind it. So, yeah, one more year, literally make it a year deal, see who comes through.

See what's going on in the driving market. You can have a game. Maybe Oscar Piastri will ever get a driver. You could promote Yuki Sonoda for a year and hate him and then demote him and then put Piastri in the drive. It can happen. We've seen worse things in Red Bull with their second drivers. There are options that are coming up in the younger driver area.

You've got time to make that move. Don't rush. Don't be silly like you have done beforehand. So unless someone presents a very fair argument, Perez is doing a good job. Not perfect, not incredible, but a very good job. I'm happy with it, satisfied. and I think a one-year deal will be fair. The second I saw the quote,

we are not in a hurry on this. My initial thought was, why the not? Because they should be in a hurry to get this done. And I actually mean that from both sides, especially from Perez's side, but also from the team side. I would get this done as soon as possible.

Firstly, looking at it from Sergio Perez's point of view. He has had a good start. of the year. So his stock is higher now than I think at any point last year. He's been he's been much closer to Max Verstappen, both in terms of points, but also in terms of performance. And Red Bull don't need him to beat Max Verstappen. They don't need that. They just need him to be a good supporting player, which he is certainly evolving into being this year. So he's at a good start to the year. From Perez's side, where's he going? Where does he want to go that isn't Red Bull? Don't give me this nonsense about he might want to be a first driver elsewhere, rubbish. He'd rather be

a second driver at Red Bull. It's a much better spot. And ultimately, I think there's another contract negotiation which Perez should look at very, very closely. And that is that of Carlos Sines. Carlos Sines's deal was wrapped up a few weeks ago, which I think Carlos Sines at this moment in time will be very glad about, because actually, if Carlos Sines had waited and not in a hurry. Would Ferrari be chomping at the bit to get that signed right about now? I'm not saying it wouldn't eventually happen, but they're probably also not in much of a hurry after what they've seen in the last couple of Grand Prix. Now, Sergio Perez has had a very good start to the year, but signs is proof how quickly that narrative could change. If Perez has a few bad races,

then suddenly Red Bull might not be as eager to get this done as they might be now. So I would say there's no time like the present for Sergio Perez. And not only is Perez's stock right now pretty high, I would argue Gazley's stock, whilst it's not low, is potentially lower than at any point in recent history. Gasly's done a very good job at Alphotauri. That can't be denied. But that car isn't quite the same this year as what it was last year. We're not seeing the P6, P7 qualifying performances from Pierre Gasly. Sonoda is. currently beating Gazley in the points. Now, I'm not saying he's at a bad start to the year, but ultimately he hasn't done anything that is making Red Bull go, we need to sign this guy,

at least this year. So I think you're in a perfect storm at the moment if you're Sergio Perez. Your stock is quite high. Gasly, arguably your closest competition, his stock is a little bit lower, and I would absolutely get this deal done. Don't think about it for the rest of the year. you can focus on just winning both championships, get it done early, and just get it on the back burner. Again, I would agree with Sam just one year. You don't need to extend any further than that. Just keep it at 2023. Ultimately, yes, Gassley is probably the alternative here. But whilst Red Bull might have been in a position to risk it a couple of years ago, I think given that they are now the de facto number one team on the grid, I think they're in less of a position to gamble here. I think playing it safe makes more sense than gambling with Gassley.

We saw what happened with Gassley the first time around, and I am of the impression that it wouldn't go that way again, and he would be better off. But can you be certain of that? No. Are you playing a guessing game if Gassley's going in the car? I think you are. But with Perez, you know what you're getting,

because he's literally delivering in that car right now. I think it's better the devil you know in this respect, and I would absolutely stick with Perez for another year. get it signed as soon as possible from both sides. Kylie Monogue's on the podcast. Damn right. From pit bull to Kylie Minogue, we are diversifying. We are globe trotters of global talent.

Hey, Natalie and Bruglia showed up earlier on. We're doing all right. We love the Aussies. We love the Aussies today. Apparently so. I left our salon. Right. You have four minutes less of talking time now, Harry.

I'm taking that off of you. wasn't that Angostasia Oh yeah, very true Right I totally agree with your very last point there Ben That was my main takeaway from this It's where Red Bull are now as a team They can't afford to risk it

They can't afford to risk it with Gansley Who I'm on the same way of length as you I think he would undoubtedly do a better job than he did In the first half of 2019 but they are competing for championships now. They were last year. They are this year. It's fair to say they might well be next year and beyond.

And they want to win a constructors again. They can't risk having someone in the car who might not deliver. And that sounds really harsh on Gasly. But as you say, Ben, Perez is delivering right now. So get that signed. I don't know whether he really meant. it wasn't rushing. I bet he is rushing.

I bet he's knocking on Christian's door every 30 seconds. Let me in, Christian. It might be a media point. It might be all smoke of mirrors for the media. I think you're right. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, I'm going to tell you with you. I think they should get this signed.

And Paris is definitely the right choice because, I mean this in the utmost respect to both these drivers, but he's doing great Valtry Bottas job at the moment. he's bringing home the bacon when needed. He's not beating his teammate, but it's not really what Red Bull 1. He's there for where Sam's just turned around because he's wearing his more Botties Please t-shirt. More Botties, please.

In our description if you want to buy one. That's great. I'm not seeing one in person. That's excellent looking t-shirt. Sorry. He's doing, yeah, throw him up a point, but he's doing a Valtry Bottas job and I mean, yeah, I mean that in the most complimentary way possible

because he's doing exactly what Red Bull have needed Alex Albon Pierre Gasly, Danny Kiffeyat to do, and they've not been able to. So, yeah, it's an absolute no-brainer for me. Sign up the Mexican Minister of Defence right now. I've just realized something. This is good news.

This is good news. Because if you remember back to the last contract negotiations we discussed, it was the Carlos Sines deal. And I think the consensus there was that Ferrari should wait. And what did they do? What did they do? It was signed the day after we discussed it. So I think here, we are generally saying get it done as soon as possible. It's not going to be done until September. So we know that this discussion is going to be valid for longer than a day. That's how we prevent news in future. We should say it will happen. And then they'll bring it up and all the time. I always look like morons, they're like, oh, we do that anyway. It's fine. The FIA

haters. We look like morons when we say it's not going to happen and then it happens. So I think we lose either way. Also, congratulations to Sergio Perez on your new contract, as is a bit announced two seconds ago. Or cut. Well done, Sergio, for agreeing with the podcast and maybe waiting and taking your time. Oh, wait, no, that doesn't make any sinks either. Regardless. We've taught ourselves. Formula one is good. So just to clarify conclusion from that is Formula One is good. Yes. Perez is quite good at the F1.

Only quite. Okay, let's move on because Pierre Gazley showed up in our last topic, but he'll show up in this one as well. Alex Albin, I think we can all agree, has had a pretty good start to the 2022 season, has scored points on a couple of occasions, got close at Imler as well. the question is we're going to frame this not from Albin's perspective but from Gasley's perspective

Albon of course is still part of the Red Bull Junior program but he's been loaned out to Williams for the year so Sam do you think that Alex Albin's good start to 2022 is actually the evidence that Ghazley needs to make that push away from the Red Bull program I think Gasly has been looking for signs to push away from the Red Bull program for a long time. I think he is very deeply unsatisfied with how he was treated in the whole saga of the promoted, he then immediately demoted, and then the way he was created by senior members of the Red Bull team. Alex Albon has come back into the sport after a year's break, after also having the same

treatment as Pierre Gazley, right? Promoted, demoted, slanded by the media, the public looked to him like he was useless. He jumped out of Formula E, remember, right? the last minute to come and do that drive as well, really made a sacrificing his career to change paths. And in this start, so this season, I think he has, I mean, beating Latifie is no real mean feat, but I think he has outdone himself in the public opinion. I think many of us are sat here thinking, Abel's got it, isn't he? Abel's doing a good job. And this is exactly the same path that Pierre Gazley had when he got himself back on level footing at Alfa Tauri.

started raking in good points, he started qualifying very well, he started outperforming that car. And everyone suddenly went, what? They're really, really good when they got involved in the Red Bull program, or they got involved in the Red Bull culture at the actual senior Red Bull team. Now, if you're Pierre Gazley, you've seen how well Albaugh is doing at a team like Williams, which is completely different culture-wise. You'd argue that Album probably has a more leadership-based role there. He seems very happy with how he's being treated with his team and that the type of Bond he seems to already be forming with the mechanics and the senior leadership of that team, if you're Pierre Gazley, you must be looking around the grid and thinking, where can I go to

get that? Where is coming up that's available? I'm not going to be getting that Red Bull seat. Because surely, if Almond keeps doing so well, is he in contention for the senior Red Bull seat again? More so than Pierre Gasly? It's a question. I don't have the answer, as with many things in life, but it surely is a legitimate question. So I find Pierre Gasly, I'm going, Fernando Alonkso hasn't scored in a year as many points as Eskvang Ok on this season. Is that season that Alonso was talking about with raw pace happening already? Should I be putting my name in the hat for an alpine seat? Should I be looking at Porsche or Aldi coming in a couple of years' time

and getting myself sorted there and then? Lewis Hamilton. Is he in his last season? Next season? Can I get my name signed down? As it is, Daniel Ricardo. He's struggling at McLaren at the moment. Maybe they don't want to take in a young American prodigy,

which you might discuss on another podcast. instead of Ricardo, but maybe they'll take me, Pierre Gazzley at McLaren. There are options. Yes, they're not obvious and yes, they're not immediate. But if you continue to put in good performances, I think it makes a lot of sense to emulate what Alex Albon is doing, going to a different part of the F1 grid, becoming a different part of a culture, allowing yourself to thrive and really cementing yourself as a different part of Formula One history, not just a Red Bull sister driver team car person that isn't ever getting or achieve something.

Because unfortunately, that's where it's going for, B, Gasey at the moment. He's going to be stuck in a Ciska team that is forever considering the B team that won't ever win races. And if Gassie wants to do in races, he's got to go somewhere. So yes, I think this does look like

good feedback, almost like when you run a different strategy for the first time or something. This looks like a good analysis for him, a good case study, to maybe make a move away from Alpha Tauri as soon as possible. I like the reference to it being a case study, actually. That's spot on. and I'm going to use it as I transition to Harry.

Is this a good case study for Gassley to use? I think it is. I just think his problem is that I don't know where he goes. I think Sam has definitely listed some potential options out. I just don't, it depends on a lot of moving parts in the driving market. And we've seen crazyer moves than that in the past. But yeah, I think it's clear that. but Cassidy

doesn't want to be in that Red Bull program anymore and I think it's clear that he's not going to get that Red Bull scene so I think the only reason he is currently hanging around it Alpha Tauri is because it's the only option for him I don't you know it's a useful case study in terms of being out of the Red Bull program and I guess Carlos Sines is maybe another another example of that but I don't particularly see Gassi jumping into a car

like a Williams just to get out of it because I don't think that's a backwards move however you look at it even if Williams do improve I don't think they're going to start jumping out for tarry anytime soon um I mean Williams are going to be champions next year now that I've said that but no other than you're welcome um but yeah I think that's probably his his his biggest issue on that one but I agree I think it's it's a good example of what can be done when you when you leave that program, especially for drivers that have been demoted previously. And I guess what they did with Album was better than what they did with Ghazdi in a way, because yes, Albon lost his seat, but they kept him around properly in that Red Bull team,

and then obviously pushed to get him a seat with Williams, whereas Ghazdi, they sort of just devoted back to Alphletauri, which is a bit of a dumping ground for ex-red Bull drivers. So, yeah, look, I'm in no doubt I think Gassie wants to leave the Red Bull program. I just think he's got issues in terms of where he goes next. And it really depends on people like Alonzo, Hamilton, and maybe Ricardo,

depends on where they go or a first day. Or a battle. Yeah, a very good example, but maybe Seb as well. Yeah, I mean, from my side's here, I wanted to pick up on something that Sam said in terms of Nicholas Latifi and the comparison point there that Alex Albin's had this year and you said, and I don't think incorrectly,

you said that Nicholas Latifie is exactly the best benchmark out there and it's perhaps not the biggest achievement in the world to dominate Nicholas Latifie on a racetrack. Sadly, I think you're correct on that. But actually, if we look at it, is Alex Albin doing anything differently to what George Russell was doing in that same position? I don't think so.

I think he's doing just as good a job. And there needs to be a caveat to that as well in that Alex Albon has had a year out of the sport. But that's got to mean something. We saw with Estabon Ockon when he joined, I guess it was Renault back then, when he had a year out of the sport, it didn't go particularly well at the start.

And I think we're in a similar position here where at least I thought coming into this year, Alba might need a few races before he's up to speed. I actually expected the first few races at this year, I was very wrong, that Albin and Latifie would be fairly well matched and that Albon would mid-season to the end of the season would pull away.

The Albin has been really from race one miles better than Latifi. So I've been very encouraged by what I've seen from him. And actually, outside of just the performances and the points scoring that Albin's done, there's something outside of that as well in just in terms of his demeanour, just in terms of his overall, it's as if he's a different driver. Not to say, I mean, Alex Alman has always been very good with the media.

He's always been a very friendly, polite person in the paddock. That's never been in question. But whenever he was interviewed as part of the Red Bull days, it always felt as if there was that pressure hanging over him. Like his shoulder was as well, almost being weighted down by the pressure of people. in that Red Bull. Every time you see Alex Albin now, he seems so free. He seemed, it's a really difficult one to describe, but his overall approach and mentality, it seems completely different and healthy. That Red Bull pressure is not for everyone. And it seems to be the case with Alex Albin. So I think Gasly should absolutely look at this as a case study and say, I think heading out of

him might be the right idea for me. Certainly, if Sergio Perez signs for 20, That should be the last straw. If Sergio Perez is signed to 20203, then you know that it's not happening for you. My opinion is it's not happening anyway, but that would be the final nail in the coffin there, I would say. And you can only wait so long. He's done a great job with Alpha Tauri, almost building up that portfolio of good work. You think he hit the ground running from race one after he was dropped from Red Bull? I remember it was the Belgian Grand Prix and he was right there competing with Alps.

Alex Alburn, who replaced him, he had a fantastic race. And ever since that point, he's delivered. But it only goes so far until you know for sure you're not getting in that Red Bull seat. So he should look at other opportunities. And I think you were right, Harry to bring up Carlos Seines. Carla Seines waited and waited in that Toura Rosso, didn't get the opportunity. And yes, he had to go a very roundabout way. He had to go via Renault, two McLaren, and then to Ferrari.

but ultimately what did it result in? It did result in a car that he's got right now that is capable of winning races and potentially a championship. And I think Gassley should probably look at that and say, hopefully he gets there a bit more directly than science. But I think he should look at that and say

that that's my inspiration. That's what I can do if I leave this program. And something you brought up, Sam, where is he looking? Because obviously we can pick out someone who should leave a program, but if there's nowhere for him to go, there's no point. he should, and this is something you mentioned, Sam,

he should absolutely be knocking on the door of one Mr. Zach Brown, because McLaren for me is the opportunity for him. At the moment, he has very much got a case of Daniel Ricardo has been in your car for over a year now. He's not delivering to the level you expected. Colton Herta, who has been linked to the car, completely unproven when it comes to F1. It would be a gamble, more so than Gassley,

who is there performing week in, week out. So I think he's got a pretty good case for that McLaren and he could do much worse. You might well be right in terms of the Williams might not be that appealing for Gassley and maybe he should carry on at Alphotauri if that was the only option. But McLaren is a pretty good seat. So I would be eyeing that one up if I was Pierre Gasly. We're going to close off this week's episode with Pump the Breaks. So stay tuned because that's coming up right now.

Pump the brakes. if you haven't listened to this podcast segment before, it's a bit of a long-term feature for us. We each give three opinions. Well, we each give one opinion, making three total. The other two people have to decide whether that opinion is a good one and whether they should keep going with that opinion. In which case, you're fine. You've got nothing to worry about. However, if the other two people say that that is not a good opinion and you should pump the brakes,

well, you need to be worried because our favourite person of all time, late breaking Hall of Famer, Dave Benson Phillips, will come along with the dreaded gunge. Have you got your 50 P's at the ready, Sam, ready to pay Dave Benson Phillips some money if he gets some gunging in? He is eagerly awaiting over there. I've got them on this side of the table so he has a snatch at them. But yes, Dave is waiting for his payment so he can get the bus home. Ben, you haven't played the jingle. I'm saying, it wasn't even a intro jingle. Yeah, it's all right. It's coming. It's coming.

Ready? This is going to be seamless. Ladies and gentlemen, let's pump the brakes. Yes, look at that. I feel like that jingle's louder than our average one. This is because I'm literally shouting. Fair. Pump the brakes. Shall we start with you, Harry, on this one?

What is an opinion that is going to send people into a fit of, frenzy. A fitter frenzy. Okay, mine is topical, following on from the Miami GP. My Pomp the Brake's opinion is that the F1 grid, pre-race, shouldn't have any celebrities,

dignitaries, whatever you want to call them, should just be reserved for obviously the people that will work on the grid on the cars, etc. drivers. But them and fans of F1, because I think we've got to a slightly ridiculous... I mean, the Miami, as funny as it was, watching Martin Brundall bluster his way through a grid full of celebrities

he didn't know, that grid was chaos. And what's it actually adding at that point? So, yeah, I think you should reserve the F1 grid for fans of Formula One, get them closer to the experience. I don't know how you do that. That's not my job to decide. But, yeah, enough of celebs on the grid. I understand why they do it, why F-Wden invite someone to the grid,

but I feel like it's a better place for other people to be there. So I'll be saying zero tolerance, no celebs. Yeah, if you've got a lot of Instagram followers, you're not allowed. All right. Sam, what do you reckon? See, if you had being a little less harsh, I will definitely have said you can keep your gung. but I think it's done for marketing purposes and I do believe that teams should all be allowed

one celebrity because that's what 10 people maybe with a bodyguard or something so extra 10 people on the grid I don't mind that at all if McLaren only had David Beckham or if McClaren only had James Corden or if the same has only had Michael Jordan there

I get it it's good press right It makes money, they get more sponsorship, that makes sense, I understand that. But none at all feels a bit like you're missing an opportunity, but too many, you're right, it becomes a show, it becomes a farce. I am completely in agreement that there should be more fans or specifically invited Formula One content creators on the grid. And I don't want to look like a blowing our own trumpet here. And it's not just us.

There are so many brilliant YouTube channels, podcasts, journalists, often coming people who want to make a career of Formula One. And you don't know the level of pride and amazement and exposure that that could give to a publication of any kind, us included in that, right? We have over nearly 300,000 downloads already this year, right? That is big for a podcast. We get that. But you don't know what it would do for a podcast like us.

to be able to stand on the grid next to a Formula One team after being invited there. So because of your nilpois on celebrities, I'm going to have to say, painfully so, pump the brakes.

I love that. I love how it started with an opinion and ended with an appeal. That's fantastic. Let us in. Let me in. Please. Please.

I'm going to, throw this back to you somewhat, Harry, in terms of a question. No, no, I'm not going to let you. Stop yourself. You don't have to answer. I'm going to ask it anyway. Go on. If a cringy interview of a celebrity that doesn't really care too much about F1 on a grid for a minute, if that causes, and I've got no idea whether this be accurate,

if that causes 1,000 new fans to come into the sport, is it worth it? You should say, can you repeat the question, please? What? Say that again. Tricky, but I guess yes it is. It's just the way that it comes. The coverage from Brundle thinking that basketball player was Patrick Mahomes, which is horrendous. like it's not

well it's partially his fault but he's also got people in his ear saying that's Patrick Mahon's going to interview and he's just off to do it but but yeah and I guess if you it converts them into fans and fine

but it's the way that it brings them in as a first impression of Formula One it's not what I'd hope for he admitted to social media but it is the least enjoyable part of his job every single way he's like I genuinely don't like doing it yeah I was like they keep making him

do it, he hates it. Oh, my. I'm very much of a similar line of thinking than Sam, so... Get gunged, David is 50p, lad. You can eat tonight, Dave. As a rule of thumb, I don't disagree with pretty much everything you're saying in that, yeah, I think it has gone too far. and I've got nothing to prove this one way or the other in terms of that question I posed to you.

But if fans are coming to the sport as a result of these celebrities getting involved, then as cringy as it is, it might be a net win in some instances. Again, I wish it could be done a different way. And I completely agree with what you said in terms of getting fans more involved. That absolutely stands.

And yes, fewer celebrities, If you'd have said fewer, I wouldn't have done it. But all celebrities, one step too far from me. The most annoying thing about the Miami Grand Prix was, so I follow an influencer on Instagram, just my own personal Instagram, for other reasons, not related to sport, just for other general purpose reasons. It's maybe influenced.

Just to be influenced. I bought so many things. And they posted on their story, that's it. It hasn't even got it. They posted on their story. I'm here at the F1 with Alfa Romeo. And I'm like, what? You've never ever shown any interest or posted ever about, it's because their boyfriend

is a football star and he was invited there as part of the whole football thing. And they got to sit in the car, walk around the garage. I thought, this is, I need to get me a football star boyfriend. Clearly, that's what I need to do. Because running a Formula One podcast is enough to get onto the grid. Wow. Yeah. I'm not sure if this is going to be your partner's favorite episode, Sam.

I'm leaving you for a footballing man. Well, there's the quote of the pog. That's the title right there. What's your pump on the break, Sam? Folks, if you haven't noticed, I am really tired for this recording. I've tried it on to Yor multiple times on the mic. So we might have done this one. I've just completely forgotten.

But I think when a safety car comes out, we should have standing starts over rolling starts for multiple reasons, entertainment value. I think they're regularly more safe. I just think they're better than they are rolling starts. So I think that safety car restart should always be standing like a red flag rather than a rolling start around the last corner. I think we might have had this before.

I can't quite remember. Oh, I knew it. I'm a waste on this podcast. However, I still think it's a good one to discuss regardless. Again, I agree with the wider point of they are more entertaining. They can be safer. Micello is evidence of that from a couple years ago. I'm just trying to envisage the situation where there's a safety car,

and then there's like three safety cars like consecutively and how much of a fath that. We've had it with reg flags, though, haven't we? We've had it. It's a... It's a bit of reality, isn't it? It works. It's fun. You're picking at unnecessaries.

Pump the brakes. No! Get in a bin! It's all right. I'm pumping the brakes, whatever your opinion is. I need to tell you to fund the brakes because there is no chance in hell

that I'm getting away on gunshot with mine. So, um, Harry, are you telling Sam to pump the brakes? I... Main issue with this one is, I get there's more jeopardy in it from an entertainment point of view

there's more jeopardy in it and I think that'd be fun and yeah from a safety point of view it's probably a safer Ben's got a point that there might be a bit of a faff if we have multiple and there have no clutches left by the end of the race the other thing

having following from Abu Dhabi I had to explain to a lot of people family friends who don't so tired of explaining that good Lord please don't stop last me. But I had to spend a lot of people about how the concept of a safety car in terms of why did Lewis Hamilton lose his however many second lead. And I was like, well, that's how a safety car works. Like everyone has to bunch up. It's just how it works. And I'm like, yeah,

but he was leading by however many seconds. Why couldn't he lead by that again afterwards? The point I'm getting to here is at least with a safety car restart, you've got a more fair chance of holding on to that lead. Yes, the guy behind can still overtake you. But I think there's just that jeopardy you're introducing into it opens the door for even more controversy and maybe I'm doing it from a selfish point of view, I just don't want to explain it to be.

So sick of talking about it. I don't talk about it anymore. But yeah, I just don't know that you're making that and I know you have to do it for red flags, but I just don't know whether we're making it that would make it unfair. I don't know, but I'm going to have to say, on the bracelet.

Well, I'm saying it's unfair, the FIA will do it. Come on, Dave. Gunge me, Dave! Oh, Dave, it's a good night for Dave because he's going to make himself £1.50. And there is, as I mentioned, no chance I'm getting out of this. Come on the bed. I'm going to hit you with this. Spanish...

Put the brakes. Spanish, yeah, you might as well do it already. Spanish Grand Prix coming up next weekend. Popbrates. Fair as well. I've kind of gone around this issue once or twice before on the podcast, and I don't think it got much reception the last time I did it. So here we go.

If turn one at Spain, there is an if to this, if turn one at Spain had grass or gravel immediately to the outside of the corner, it would be a top five first corner in the sport. So hang on. So I need to just picture this in my mind because I am tired. Come into the corner. On the left hand side. So.

The inside as it turns to the left, up the hill. Yeah. So that little bit of runoff at the moment that is used for... They cut through it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it used to it. Yeah.

Grass, gravel, something. Would it be a top five of all time or on the... Or on the calendar now. On the calendar right now. To be honest, I can only think of about two or three that I'd maybe not even three that I'd put ahead of it. Suzuki. Who have you put ahead of it?

Suzuki would be ahead of it. Suzuki, the entire track. Turn one at Suzuki. I didn't think I need to specify. I'm talking about turn ones. Oh, right. So top five turn ones. Yeah, turn ones very specific.

Oh my God. Are you listening? Right. Suzuki would be ahead of it. To be honest, that's the only one that comes to mind that I would put ahead of Spain. Not Brazil? Yeah. Yeah.

That's probably about even... Monsa? No. No. I'd put it... I put ahead of Monson. The chaos, the drama that it causes. Nah, Spain, mate.

Um, I think, considering that LaSauce is on there as well. That's a... Nah, no. LaSauce wouldn't even make my top ten. You're not making my top ten podcast host

at the moment, right? It's on everything three of us. Right, I've got to run it through before I even had my go in my head. I've got to go down the whole grid. You run through it, I'm going to go in there only. Pondon breaks, you're an idiot, Ben.

It's a great corner. It is a great corner. A great corner. In fairness, as a corner, not for anything overtaking-wise, I can see your point, but there are better term ones. More than five better turn ones on the calendar, I think I'd go for. I even think Coeter's better.

No, I'll take Spain over-cater. I love the uphill breaking, the multiple lines you can go through there. I'll give you Coaters better than the source, but I'd still go for Spain. Show me your source for that, Sunshine, because you pump the brakes, you're right. Oh, Dave is one-p50 dungeon. Oh, Dave's off down the pub with that. He's on a lovely night. He's having a great evening.

He's not coming on this podcast. So our next episode of the podcast is going to be us ranking all of these tracks on the calendar on their turn ones. That's going to be it, the whole podcast. Yeah, okay. Put that as a topic. We'll do it. Next week. Write that down.

Someone, listen, write it down. We will forget. Oh, wow. I mean, it's not on there anymore, but Russia would be at the bottom. It doesn't even count, does it? Are you actually counting turn one as turn one? Oh, yeah, very good point. Well, then even worse, then.

It doesn't count. Yeah, it goes down with one of the worst turn ones of all time. Well, Dave made his money. That was pretty impressive. Well, well on, though, Benson Phillips. Popper brake! We're going to be back in preview mode next week, because we do prepare for the Spanish Great Turn 1 Grand Prix.

But until then, if you wouldn't mind, Sam, getting us out of here. Dave's money don't jiggle, jiggle. It folds. Nice. Classic. Just cut TikTok moment there. Cut that off. Harry.

If anyone comes back to that in literally like two months time, they're going to be like, what? What? No one's going to remember what that is. It's Louis Thoreau, folks. All right. I'm apparently getting us out of me. Folks, I have been so exhausting that this podcast is being a wild ride.

And I hope you've enjoyed it. If you stuck around till this point over an hour ring, then you probably have. And then mentioned a review. Five-star reviews go a really long way. I know it sounds a little bit like, oh, wait, it's five-star. But it genuinely does make a difference to the growth of the podcast.

It makes a difference to, you know, how we sit with, you know, the business side of things, which, of course, we want to do this full time. So if you are going to give it a five-star, we'd absolutely appreciate it. If you can give it a one, One star, please just have a second thought because it does impact us. Thank you anyway for listening for this long.

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Down with the kids down with the kids This has been bizarre Ben hates every turn one And in the meantime I've been Samuel Sage I've been Ben Hockey

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