The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Does Charles Leclerc make too many mistakes to be a champion? | Episode 150

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Whilst F1 takes a week off, the LB boys are back with another podcast! This week they discuss whether Charles Leclerc has the consistency to be a champion, talk through the recent addition of Qatar to the F1 calendar, and play F1: Pump The Brakes...JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by me, Ben Hocking, Harry Ead and Sam Sage. sausage casserole Sam What are you thoughts

Oh Big lover One of my favourite Dinners Folks if you It's a strange start Basically I've got a sausage In the oven

It's in the casserole dish Le Cruze And Ben Turns out Hate sausage cass Or aka saucy cass I don't hate sausage cass I hate you calling it

Sossy Cass I call it a saucy cass Because it's the most disgusting sounding thing ever It's the equivalent of calling George Russell Georgie Russ Yeah, saucy cast, Georgie Russ. Is that good?

Yes, Sebi Vett. Can you put Sebi Vets? Can you put Georgie Russ in a crusade and put them in the oven, though? Does that work? I think so. That's what we classify as murder, Harry. We don't encourage that. All right, fine. Do you have to turn the oven on?

Oh, right, okay, that makes it perfectly fine. Just a simple abduction, you know, that's far better. Right, Formula One, less saucy Yeah, fun fact, we're a Formula One podcast, so we might well talk some things about Formula One. Toto Wolf believes that Mercedes have left too many points on the table in 2021. We'll be discussing whether we think he's right in that regard. The Qatar Grand Prix get used to saying that one, 10-year deal.

Sam, how does it feel that you'll be 36 and we'll still be racing in Qatar for sure? The misery that that brings me on a day-to-day basis is horrible. And we'll be playing F1, pump the brakes to round out the show. But first of all, we're focusing on Ferrari. So after a difficult 2020, they've somewhat bounced back in 2021. Leclair and Sines have formed a pretty formidable partnership between the two of them. And it's very close in the points table as well. So if we're looking at Charles Leclair, we know he's very quick.

That's not up for debate. But maybe something that is up for debate is whether he is too error prone at this point in his career. So Sam, do you think that Leclair is too error prone to win a world championship if he's given the opportunity? Well, if we're talking about Lecler just at the Austrian Grand Prix, then yes, because his spatial awareness is like he's the world's smallest car and can do whatever he wants, but actually he just drives into people. Sitting us aside, baffling, I know, folks. Do I think that Charlotte Clare is too error prone? No, I don't. And I think actually he's got plenty of time to carry on developing. And, you know, you look at the progress of all the champs,

all the great drivers that have gone through the years. How many drivers came into a sport, or in the first two years of being in the sport, they were completely errorless. They could execute, you know, 21 Grand Prix without making a mistake, apart from maybe a mechanical failure, which isn't their own fault. How often does that happen? Didn't happen for Lewis Hamilton. Didn't happen for Max Verstappen. Didn't happen for Fernando. Don't happen for Michael Schumacher. So, Charlotte-Cler, in my opinion, can make a few errors. Let's talk about, Sochi, for example, because that is probably partially the reason why this topic has come up, of course, Carlos Sites starting on the front row of the grid and then picked up a podium,

and you have to argue that in terms of settling to that Ferrari team, Carlos Sites has done a spectacular job. But Charlotte-Claher also did a spectacular job, beating Sebastian Vetter, of course, and was not too error-prone. The mistake that he made, while, yes, the majority of the field got it right, we also agreed that it was almost a fair mistake to make. I think you always had the right to take a risk. We said it in the review podcast of the Soxie Grand Prix. Landon Norris made that same call. It didn't pay off for him.

No one was too harsh on him. It was an understandable risk to make. It didn't really pay off for him. If Charler took that same risk, you can't pay off for him. He may have ending up on the podium, you know, after starting pretty much from the back of the grid. So, yeah, Charlotte Clur has made some mistakes in the past. We've seen him drive into a few people. We've seen him, you know, muscle a couple of people off the track, maybe slightly unfairly.

We also had that exit that was strolled at Russia last year, or he just took him off on the first lap. we have seen these issues creeping. It has happened, don't get me wrong. But he's still young. He's still early on his career, and he's not in a world championship winning car at all. He's not even close to it. He's barely got the third best car on the grid.

So I think that Charlotte Claire is more than okay to make some errors. He's got the speed to make up for it. He's scored more than enough poli is, more than enough points. You know, his performance in Silverstone this season alone was breathtaking for the car that he's got. I think Charlotte Clair more than outweighs any mistakes he makes at the moment. And with time, they will get less, less and less. Hopefully it will come together at the right moment where Ferrari provide him with a world championship winning car, and Charlotte Clair will got the majority of those errors out.

But hey, Lewis Hamilton's a seven-time world champ. He's leading the current championship, and he's made at least three major errors this season. So you can still win championships and make some mistakes. Sholokler has that privilege as well. I think he's doing just fine. So essentially, as long as we don't have a season where they only go to the Red Bull Ring, he'll be fine. Exactly. Okay. Well, I think that's pretty understandable. And just to pick up on one thing that you mentioned there, in terms of Charles LeClau's errors over the last few years,

you mentioned the one at Russia last year with Lange Strol, which they replayed at the most recent Grand Prix that we had. I still can't understand. How did the guy avoid a penalty for that? I reckon it's because for a certain lap of the race, the marshals all just wear blindfolds. He literally just shoves him off track and it's like, literally just drives into the back of him

and goes, delay it somewhat. Ah, that one though, isn't it? So see you later. Yeah, and be fair. He's got away the few things that I think other drivers maybe wouldn't. We could talk about the Monsorinkskin with Lewis Hamilton as well, where

O'Con, I believe, picked up a penalty in the most recent Grand Prix, but same contact happened, same corner happened. Lewis Hamilton got pushed off. only a black and white flag was received. So I think he's being a little lucky with some of these decisions. But, hey, we're talking about mistakes,

not whether he's been treated better or worse by the stewards. I think he's all good to carry on with how he's going. Could you imagine if they actually penalised LeClaire for that Monsor incident and cost him the win? I don't think, and this is just an observation. I don't think the fans would have been delighted about that. I'm not sure Michael Massey would be alive. Just an inkling on that.

Harry, what's your view on this? Do you think that Charles Leclair at the moment is too error-prone if he was given the opportunity to win a championship, would he take it? I think it's really easy to forget how early Charles O'Clair is into his Formula One career. I mean, his first year was 2018. I mean, we are old, and a lot has happened in that time. But that's not very long ago, especially in Formula One.

So, yeah, I think he's... I'm not saying he should be making mistakes every week. end or whatever, but I think he's still allowed. He's still, I think you'd say he's still in that development process of his career. It's just that he's immensely talented, has scored a couple of wins already, that, you know, he gets elevated to that high end of the grid, and we expect so much from him. So, yeah, I think that's really easy to forget. I think his trajectory in terms of his career is very similar to Vestappen, and, you know,

we look back at 2018, 2017 Vastappen immensely quick. but made quite a few mistakes. And, you know, I seem to remember asking the same question, maybe not on this podcast, because it didn't exist, but on other content streaming platforms. But, yeah, I think it's very similar to that. And Verstappen has been allowed to mature. He's rarely made a mistake.

I mean, this year, it can only count, you know, a couple. And even last year, he was still pretty error-free. So I think Lecler, I think he just needs slightly more time. If he was in a championship battle right now, maybe it would, you know, it would hinder him. But as Sam said, Lewis Hamilton has made a few mistakes this year and he still leaves the World Championship.

So mistakes can happen in the season and you can still make up for them. So, yeah, it's hard to say whether he would be able to fight for a championship right now. My gut would say yes if he had the car for it. But, yeah, I think, you know, he's still got to. time in his career to iron those mistakes out. I don't think it's anywhere near disastrous for him. I think maybe the pressure of Carlos Hines has maybe exaggerated it slightly. Well, not exaggerated it. What's the word? Not encouraged it, but it meant that the Claire's probably been driving, trying to beat his teammate a bit more. He's not really had that with Vettel over the past two years.

so a bit of pressure from the teammate does encourage mistakes. So, yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing for the players to make mistakes. All the greats have done it early on in their career. Like I say, he is still very early on in his career. So I think it's absolutely fine for Chuck to make mistakes. And, yeah, that's just not taking to the Red Bull Ring. Unfortunately for him, he's had four races there in the past two years, which is not good because that's where he makes all his mistakes, apparently.

It's a weird one. really weird one. Yeah, I think the Vestappan comparisons are a good one, and I'll go just a step further on that, and you say that, you know, Vestappen's 2018 was notoriously, I don't want to say bad, because it wasn't bad,

but mistake heavy from Vestappen's perspective, and if you consider that Vestappen started in 2015, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 was Vestappen's fourth year in Formula One. Shao LeClaire started in 2018, 19, 2020,

oh, what do you see? 2021 is Charles Leclerc's fourth year in Formula One. And would anyone argue that 2021 Leclerc is more erratic than 2018 Vastappen was? Not quicker, forget pace, but at least in terms of consistency, in terms of mistakes made, I would say 2018 Vastappen made a lot more errors than we're seeing from 2021 Lecler. So he is on the right trajectory. He is at the moment probably making more errors than he will do in a few years' time. But by and large, he's got the skill to overcome it.

And there aren't too many of them. The problem is when he does make errors, it seems as if they are in bigger spots. So everyone remembers the Azerbaijan qualifying, I am stupid, go into the castle section. That qualifying attempt probably cost in pole position. You've got a similar one this year, of course, at Monaco where he doesn't make the start of the Grand Prix, his home Grand Prix,

where he should have started from pole position, or at least in the top few, if the red flag that he caused meant no one else improved. So he should have been towards the front, if not on pole position. And of course, you know, the crash that he endured, that ruined his chances there. So that's probably 25, 18, 15 points, however many it is, down the drain because of that error. So it does seem as if a number of his mistakes are amplified just because, of the spots that he's doing it in. But really, like you say,

pretty much everyone that comes into Formula One in their first few years makes errors. Look at Lewis Hamilton. Year 5 was 2011. That wasn't a great year for him. And he's one year on from where LeCleur is in terms of experience. For me, LeClair is part of an elite group.

I'll call them the Big Four, just to give it a real... You remember with the old Premier League football, so the old top four as it was back in the day, I feel like that's what we're starting to get into, which is the group of Vestapp and LeClaire, Russell and Norris. For me, those four are above everyone else around that same age group. As much as I think Ocon's a solid driver and Lanchstrol solid and Pierre Gazley too,

for me those four are a cut above the rest and they will be the ones to, decide Formula One over the next 10, 15 years possibly. So really, if you say Verstappen's making errors his fourth year in his career, and he's still making errors now, of course, everyone still does. But you look at George Russell as well, Russell hasn't been error prone. If you think of Imala when he had his chance at points and that didn't quite happen, and there have been a few other opportunities with George Russell where it hasn't quite happened when an opportunity has opened up for him.

you could say out of the four, this might be getting slightly off topic, but you could say that Lando Norris might well be the most consistent of the four, given his lack of experience relative to the other guys at this point in his career. But I think Charlerc's skill overcomes any of the errors he makes. Yes, he needs to stamp them out, but he doesn't need to worry. He'll make it work. I want to present a completely hypothetical situation here, and it is completely hypothetical because in 2022,

Ferrari will find a brand new way to mess up because they're Ferrari. But let's say Ferrari have nailed the 2022 regulations. They are cut above every other team on the grid. And the World Championship is going in the direction of Carlos Seines or Charles LeClair. Sam, in that spot, who do you trust more to take it home next year? This is an incredibly tough question because I think they both have massive skills on the opposite end of the spectrum of each other. I think Charlotte Clare is a faster driver. I think if you put them down to a one-lap pace

or you give them completely fresh soft tires and go out and set the fastest that you can, I think Charlotte Clare would beat Carlos Sykes maybe seven or eight times out of ten. But if you were to say, right, we've got 21 races over a season and you can't make a mistake and you need to come home in the best position

you can every single time, I think Carlos Sites is more consistent. Now, neither of those ideal worlds work, but this is a hypothetical situation. So right now in their current, guys with their current form and their ability, and that's all we know. I actually put my money maybe just on Carlos Synx to win a championship about the two. But that's because I think he's got a little bit more experience, a little more time on his

his belt. Carlos Sites seems to be able to almost do a bit more of what Perez was able to do and just find these extra spots. You remember how in McLaurang in Brazil he picked up that podium. Yes, it was given to him after the race, but he was there ready to take the extras when everything fell apart in front. I guess I think that Carlos Sykes has the ability to remain calm and to deliver when you need it

and Charle-Cleur, when he's on it and that is semi-reguling, Charlotte Clare is one of the best drivers in the world and that's where it's tough to choose. But I think in their current form right now, Carlos Sikes just takes it. Over the course of a career, if Ferrari have the best car every year for the next decade,

I think Charle would win, I know, right, that's the best truck of the podcast. I think Charlotte Clare would win. more championships than Sikeswood over a decade. But just for 2022, yeah, I think Sites could just pipping. And that's got Pippin from Come Fly With Me. British reference. British reference. Niche British reference. Well, two niche British references really rolled into one. I get it wrong every time. You do. It's impressive. Two very different shows, if you're unaware of either of those, which I'm sure many people will not have to.

have a clue on both of them but um yeah same same scenario harry same result as what sam's given sorry if it's just not my microphone then um i i think i disagree with sam but only very marginally i think i think i would still trust lecler if he's given the right car but that is not that is no slight to car signs whatsoever because i agree entirely with all the points sam made i think he's The man is just, you know, I think almost criminally underrated. I mean, the job he's done this year is highly impressive. Yeah, I think, and to be in front of the LeCla, I know there are mitigating factors there,

but to be in front of the LoCla are in the points, not something I saw coming, if you asked me after how many rounds we had, 16, 15, if Sines was in the head in the points, so I've told you to say, jog on. So, yeah, that's not, and nothing against Carlos Sines whatsoever. I think they would be close, but I think I just, I think what, if you give LeCler the opportunity,

he has the speed and I think he has the consistency to deliver it. We saw it at, you know, look at Silverstone, got plonked in that opportunity to win the race and he so nearly did it in a car that around Silverstone definitely didn't deserve to win a race. So, yeah, I would go for a club, but I think both of them, you know, have the speed, had the consistency to challenge

but I think LeCloid win out eventually Oh I love having a deciding vote Isn't it the best thing in the world Can we mute here? Folks listening to the podcast If you've got to turn your volume down For the next two minutes

And then we'll carry on, thank you I'm more popular than you Sam You called them all filthy last week All of our listeners I was praised for it They loved it no one's wash sinks I'm not sure about that I hope you have

folks I hope you have had a shower since sound culture healthy please have a wash only after listening to this episode please um signs versus Lecler there is a very serious case

to say Carlos Sines in this scenario and I completely understand the reasons for doing so firstly you have to bear in mind that Carlos Sines his first year year in Ferrari, Shao LeClaire's third year in Ferrari. I didn't think Carlos Sines would get close

to Chalukler and not only is he doing that. At the moment, Carlos Sines is winning by I think seven and a half points between the two of them. So seriously impressive. So you have to consider that next year, Carlos Sines is probably going to be more well integrated into the team compared to what he's been this year, whereas Chal LeClaire already is. So actually that's a case to say that Carlos Sines will be in a better position next year versus this year. There is also the point that you made Sam about Carlos Seines's consistency in that if you are in a one-on-one championship battle, that becomes ever more important. If you've got a battle where there are five or six contenders, you're looking for excellent performances that raise you above the rest. That's what becomes important in that scenario.

But in a one-on-one scenario, I'm thinking Hamilton-Rosburgh 14, 15, 16 here, when you're in that one-on-one scenario, you're just looking to be the person to make the least amount of mistakes. because if you lose 25 points as a result of crashing, you know, you could win the next three races, but if the other guy is still finishing second all the time, he's still beating you. So actually, it is the consistency factor that comes in in a head-to-head battle. So again, Carlos signs to beat Charlotte Clare,

based on what we've seen this year, based on what he's good at, I understand it completely. I am going to say LeClaire, because, well, he's a god. That's the end of mine? No, that's not the end of mine. Charle of Claire is an unbelievable talent.

And I think, again, you're writing what you say, that he is, in terms of pure pace, just that one step above Carlos signs. He is electric. When he is in the groove, when he's in a rhythm, he's fantastic. Silverstone is probably the best example of that this year,

but there have been plenty of others. For me, one of the actual... The points tally doesn't quite add up for me in terms of how impressive Shao LeClau's been. For my money, only Vastappan and Norris have been more impressive than Charles Leclair this season, but I just don't think the points tally quite reflects that. For whatever reason, Carlos Sines has an unbelievable knack,

and you can call it a skill, and I won't tell you you're wrong, he's an unbelievable knack to end up in the right place at the right time in crazy races. I don't get how he does it. In the most crazy races, you can't predict anything other than the fact that Carlos Sines will somehow be there near the top of the tree. If you think back to Brazil 2019, he finishes P3 in a crazy race. Monza, when Gaisley wins, he's in the mix, he's P2 there. Monaco this year, he's on the podium.

What we've just seen in Russia, he ends up P3. Hungary, he ends up on the podium. Every time there is a crazy race, he doesn't win them for whatever reason, but he's always there, P2, P3, P4. And I think Charles LeCler has suffered from what I like to call the Nico Holcomburg syndrome this year in that whenever he has a great race, there are no retirements out front and he ends up finishing like fifth. The Nika Holkenberg syndrome, it will stick.

If you think back to just a few examples, you think back to the Spanish Grand Prix this year, Leclair finishes fourth, but because neither of the Mercedes or Vestappen retired, you know, he doesn't get on the podium. Similarly, if you think back to the Netherlands this year, I think he finished fifth. or fourth there. Again, just no retirements from the top few. So if he ends up having his best races in these crazy races, then suddenly I think he's well ahead of signs in the championship. I think the question you have to ask yourself, in terms of signs versus Leclair, could Leclair's extraordinary performances outdo signs as consistency? For me, the answer to that is yes, but I can

completely understand if the answer is no. I think it would be clear. to some merchandise. Merchades. Merchadies. Because Toto Wolf has had something to say. Toto Wolf believes that Mercedes have actually lost out. They've left too many points on the table in

2021. Now of course, Mercedes are leading at this point in time, both championships. They're leading the Constructors Championship by 30-something points. I can't quite remember the exact margin. And Hamilton's leading the Stapham by two points in the drivers. So they're still winning both titles.

but Toto still does believe that there are points being left out there. Do you agree with that, Sam? Yeah, 100%. And that tells you just how good Mercagis are in Formula One as a whole, let alone this year. The fact that they're winning both championships for seven races to go, and yet I think they've been poor overall this season. And I'm not talking about the team.

I'm talking about both drivers. I actually think Lewis Hamilton's having one of his worst years for quite some time. And I think Bottas, as being hashtag, no more Botties please. You know, he's not come close to winning. They both left points on the table and many races. You could cast your eye back to many parts of the season. Lewis Hamilton in Monaco was absolutely shocking, for example. Where was he?

Not part of any race at all. Franks, for example, the strategy was poor. They lost out on a wing there quite clearly. Lewis Hamilton in Hungary. Definitely going to have taken a victory. She should have stormed off with a pit stops distance. But because of the bad call from the Sages and Hamilton wanted to stay out, it was a loss.

Bottasquez decided to drive into everyone. on that race, so that also doesn't help. As of Baishan, Hamilton leaves the magic on, and misses his break zone, and Bottas again, was just poor, wasn't in the points either. So, you know, there have been countless times where they've either made mistakes or not being on it, or, you know, the list carries on.

I haven't been mentioning all of them, and I think that the side is actually, especially as a constructor, could be maybe another 30 to 40 points clear of Red Ball. I think the staff has been bang on. You can't really fault him. NFC he has had, I don't really think of being any fault of his own, as we've decided with the Silverstone incident, and with the fact that he hit the wall due to a big tire blowout

in Azerbaijan. Not his doing. Yoohoo, big tire blowout. Um, you know, Perez has obviously been the soft point for Red Bull. He's been the letdown, which, uh, you understand for a first time in, but we've, we've said our thoughts on him. He's not been up to scratch. But Mercedes definitely could be doing more. I think Hamilton should be maybe another 15 points clear. of the Stappen. I think the Stappen is doing a bloody good job at keeping that gap as small as it is, especially when you start the most recent race

on the background of the grid and you end up only two points behind in the championship. I think it's quite spectacular. Bottas is not been good enough this season. Yes, he's got a great amount of podiums, but he should have had a wing, you know, he should have been taking points off

for Stappan more often if Hamilton's doing so, less instincts as a whole. I think the saying he's could easy, as I've said, be 20, 30, 40 points clearer of Red Ball. I think Hamilton could definitely be 15, 20 points clear of Stappen. I also think

Bottas should be close from the championship. He shouldn't have taken this one to get past

Norris in the points. I think he's been a little bit lucky actually especially with what happens at Sochi.

So, yeah, Mercedes I think had been poor in comparison to what we expect from the most successful team

in terms of consecutive wings in Formula 1. Fun fact relates to Bottas's podiums.

Did you know he has eight this year compared to Perez's two? I did know that,

but Perez has one wing in comparison to Bottas's none wing. Yeah, you wait You wait

Qatar Wait a while It's the new Russia Qatar is the new Russia Botas will dominate Guaranteed Okay Okay

Let me just have a look at Some of the other Grand Prix Coming up Turkey Mexico South Paulo Abiddon Yeah it's gonna have to be

Qatar I think Yep It's gonna have to be that one Oh come on Botties Russia was white Abidabian Abidab in 2019 He did

There you go He'll have two wins this year. Everyone will be loving it. I'm very worried. Oh God. Very worried. I'm incredibly worried. Harry, what do you reckon?

Do you think that, yeah, do you think Toto's right in what you're saying? I think it's a fair comment, but I think what is interesting is I think it's a result of being in a close championship battle. I think, yeah, Toto, you've dropped points this year. so of Red Bull. It's cool. It's a championship battle, son. Like, it happens to both of them. Yeah, I agree with him,

and Sam has raised at the points where, you know, Mercedes have lost points this year when they should have done. But, yeah, I think equally Red Bull have lost out, as Sam mentioned, the big tire blow out in Azerbaijan. Forcham, for Stappen, Silverstone, Hungary. So, yeah, you know, I guess you can argue in Hungary in particular, Hamilton should have won that rather than be

second, was he second, third? Not winning anyway and you know, Imala maybe you should have won that one as well. But yeah, I don't think it's the case of what the comment sounds like is we would be winning this by Miles if we'd not drop so many points. I just think it's the nature of a tight

challenging battle, it swings, it ebbs and flows for both sides. So yeah, I think he's correct, but I think both sides have lost points when they should have scored more this year. And yeah, it's cool. Cool a competition, Toto. You've not had one for a while,

but that's not your fault. You've just been very good. I think I realize Christian Hulga was on the podcast. No, no, I'm not blaming Toto for being good. I'm just saying he's not used to it. No, they haven't had any competition for a while. they're not yet but they haven't they've just been too good they're just not used to it

so yeah no I think it's a fair comment but I think both sides have a case on that particular issue I think cheers Christian appreciate it um hang on I just got a cool checker oh god welcome to Rebel

oh smash it thank you oh bring on drive to survive Come on. I think this is a really interesting one. Have they dropped points? Yes, they have.

But like you say, Harry, they're in a championship battle. You can't not lose points. I don't care how indestructible you think you are as a team. When you've got a similar pace car to another team, you're going to drop points.

It happens. If anything, I would look at this a completely different way in that Mercedes are winning both championships and you could definitely make the case that they haven't had the fastest car throughout the year. It's probably close.

There really isn't much between the Mercedes and Red Bull. But you could make a case to say that Red Bull have had the fastest car and they're winning neither championship. In which case, there shouldn't be a look at, oh, how many points of Mercedes dropped?

This should be a case of how have Mercedes maximised their points to get to that position? If you think about... For me, the story of Mercedes season has not been drop points. It's been how they've got away with the mistakes

where they should have dropped points, but they haven't. Or at least they haven't as much as they should have done. Imala, for example, Hamilton has that error going into the hairpin. He ends up costing him what? Probably nothing, because he recovers to P2 anyway, where he was going to finish regardless. Think of some other errors that have happened this year. You know, Russia, for instance,

Hamilton comes into the pits in qualifying, hits the wall, doesn't end up mattering and he ends up going on to win the race Botas again in Russia ends up finishing P5 where he didn't have any right to finish if you look at all of the times where Mercedes have made errors this year

it hasn't really cost them very many points or at least anywhere near as many points as it should have done that error in Hungary that they made was pretty abysmal he still ended up finishing second after a disqualification from someone else it feels as if these errors that they're doing should cause limited points or no points

Silverstone of course probably the best example and I completely forgot about it Silverstone Hamilton causes a collision going into cops you can't stick a wheel up the inside of cops just to get another creature you want to reference him and what happens he wins the race these errors that are happening for Mercedes

they're not even going unpunished by other teams, they're just finding ways to gain the points back, which you've got to somehow, you know, respect, somewhat respect it, somewhat respect the luck that they're getting at certain points in the season. And I think at this point, you have to be Lewis Hamilton as a two-point lead and think, well, yeah, I'll take that, because you're right, Sam. This has probably been Lewis Hamilton's worst season for a long time. And he's still winning the championship. First of all, that's respect to Hamilton that he can be leading a championship in what is an awful year for him. But secondly, it just proves that Red Bull haven't quite maximised those errors that Mercedes have made.

Think of Valtrey Bottas. So I do ratings every week and I have Perez quite a few points ahead of Valtry Bottas. Yet, think of the stat I just gave a few minutes ago. Bottas is eight two ahead in terms of podiums. Yes, one of the podiums for Perez has been a win. but he had back-to-back podiums in those two races. He hasn't had another one all season. And yet somehow Bottas is, you know,

how is Bottas like 30 points clear of Perez? I can't work out if it's luck. I can't work out if it's skill. I feel like it's probably a combination of both. But yeah, they've dropped points. But in all honesty, I don't think that's the story of the season. Far from it. Qatar.

Qatar. Ten years. Can we just skip this? Yeah, right. Skip this. No, if we skip it, I'll be 36. I can't deal with that. Yeah, we have to deal with this now as a result of that.

It was announced today. So I guess we have to, first of all, give some thanks to Formula One for announcing this before we record the podcast. We're actually recording this a day later than we usually do. Otherwise, it would have gone down as normal. It would have been announced. See what happens.

See what? They planned it for Thursday. they went we'll release it on Thursday again we would have missed it but thank god I was busy last night and they still tried to fool us I'm sick at this F1 release stuff on Wednesdays I mean there has been a TBC on the calendar for quite a long time and despite coming up against fierce competition from Snetterton eventually Formula One did decide to give it to Qatar so I think that was fairly expected however probably what wasn't expected was the fact that this is the announcement of a 10-year deal with the country, and I believe the deal is with the country,

rather than the actual circuit, which is interesting. But I can't remember the last time such a deal was made for such a length of time. So Sam, what do you make of a 10-year deal for a brand-new circuit? We've got a few aspects about this, but first, I will start with an analogy. Hold on. Is this DFS? No, DFS. You know, oh, hello, DFS. You sell bags, right? Yes, I'd like to order a new bag for 10 years, please. Sorry, sell, would you like to sleep in it first?

You'll give it a try, see if you like it fits with the home? No, no. I don't need to have a look at it at all. Just a digital picture will do fine. I'll order it for 10 years straight away. Thank you. Honestly, who orders anything for 10 years straight without testing something at least once? This is possibly the most stupid decision made in a long, long time.

I mean you can play the guitar at this rate they've got so many strings to their bloody bow because they're trying to get involved in every sport and every, thank you, in every world event that's going on they are trying to be everywhere Qatar and I'm not going to beat around the bush when it comes to the rights issues,

the human rights issues that are going on, the conditions that we see. Formula One preach this, we race as one. Formula One preaches we want to help people. Formula one preaches that we are a sport for all nations But the rumor has come out recently, hasn't it? That, you know, the Middle East, some areas of the Middle East who are going to take over Formula One

and take it off Liberty Media, could this be the first sign of that developing? Because a 10-year deal for a track from a country that has a reputation as negative as this, for a track that we've never raced around, we've got no idea how good it is, we've got no idea how popular the sport is going to be. It's baffling, it's bizarre.

I don't understand how you have made this decision. I'm quite frankly appalled. They've decided to sign a 10-year deal for a track such as this, but the likes of Turkey, the likes of Imala, the likes of Porta Mal, who have developed great races time and time again in the two times that they've appeared, Imola many, many years,

and they don't get anything. There's no justice for the good tracks in this world. Excuse me, folks. I've got a slight cough. I am surprised and really shocked that it's gone down this route. It doesn't surprise me, though, that it's Liberty Media that are behind this, So what we've seen with their disregard for the respect of what the people in these countries are going through,

has once again been put aside for financial gain, it would seem. The track looks very average. It looks like a bit of a Kiggs drawing version of Bahrain, like they don't know the exact trap layout themselves, and so a Kiggs is kind of drawing it for, like, their teacher at school, and it's not gone too well. Lots of sweeping corners. I'm not convinced by it, but hey, ho, we'll see. we've got a lot of time to get used to it and see how it goes. So, yeah, Qatar for 10 years.

I'm miserable about it. I'll be 36 when we eventually leave the country. Hopefully they can clean things up. Don't love it. Don't love it. Silling us. What do you think, Harry, 10 years? Can I just confirm?

I thought it was, because it's the race of the, whatever it's called this year, the bike track, then there's a gap in 2023. Does a 10-year deal start from then? Because that's why I thought it meant. Oh, potentially. Oh, God. In which case, South 98. 38.

Oh, no. I mean, we might get a different track and they might resolve their human rights issues by the time I'm 38. If that's the case, then welcome back Qatar. If it isn't,

I will be miserable until I'm 38. Yeah, I mean, Sam's raised some very valid points out, and there are lots of aspects. for the track that's replaced TBC on the calendar for this year, I think I actually prefer TBC, to be honest. I think I'll make a better round. Yeah, as I said, it's a bike track, and you look at it and you go,

that's good for bikes, but I don't think that's going to be very good for F1. And obviously, it's come as part of this, the weather is part of, but it's linked to this tenure, and this is a way of entering into Qatar for F1. But yeah, the track, I'd rather just not have the race. We've got enough races. I'm glad we'd, you know, I think we would be fine with 22 instead of 23. So, yeah, and in that sense, I'm not buzzing about the final three races of the season so far. Jeddah, Qatar, Abu Dhabi.

And, you know, nothing against the countries and the people that live in them. But those circuits don't inspire me. Anyway, it's 2021. one, everything's off the table, Sotchi was a good race. In terms of the 10-year deal, yes, sounds completely right. Why would you...

Yeah, 10 years. That's a long time. That never happened. Well, I'm sure someone will correct us, but I don't think it's ever happened when they've signed for a track for that long. What about Silverstone? Yeah, but then I guess that's different

because we've raced around it for, since 1950 so um we we can't know what we're getting there i know they've had a long one uh long deal for for a while but yeah i guess that's a kind of fair example but yeah we've not tried we've not tried this first track sounds like there might even be a different track anyway so we definitely not tried that one no one's tried whatever trap we're going to get so um quite surprised by that i know f1 have a history of leaving uh circuits whilst deals are still in place uh young nam, India, there's always some sort of clause where they can just not turn up because there's not enough money coming in which could be inevitable in Qatar, could not,

I'm not sure, and then there's the human rights issues which, well, of course, mind it. I don't, you know, we shouldn't be necessarily going to these countries where human rights are such an issue, but I would almost not forget. give but if everyone at least acknowledged it or there was something everyone that's going to this country they're trying to help in some way but there's never even an acknowledgement from f1 no matter where we go whether it's turkey Qatar barrain you know even in even in Hungary we saw seb where the the gay pride t-shirt and he got he got told off for it with the f a f a a grand out loud so it's not even just places in the middle east where it's a

issue but I'd like to think with this we race as one messaging that they've been peddling there'd be a bit maybe a bit more action behind going to these countries because F1 has a huge influence and why shouldn't they be trying to and you know help these other countries that would be better but there's there's never any of that which is what I think irks me the most and I'm not saying F1's going to be able to change the whole country but it's it's it's a start. So come on F1, be better. Yeah, I mean, on the human rights issues,

I always think it's a really complex situation. And I mentioned this back when Saudi Arabia was confirmed as well, in that why a Formula One going to Qatar money, why are Qatar letting Formula One into the country money? So from that, if that was it, and that was the end of, that was the end of the sense, sentence, it'd be really simple to come to a conclusion. But there is an element of should the people of Qatar be punished as a result of the bad doings of the government? You know, should the Qatar people not get the right to see Formula One based on the actions of people and of a body that they have nothing to do with? It's a really difficult situation because you can't, you can't benefit one of them without benefiting the other. You can't. can't give the people of Qatar who deserve Formula One just as much as anyone else.

You can't give them the rights to Formula One, the enjoyment of seeing it, without also benefiting the government that are doing these horrible atrocities. So it's really tricky to say one way or the other, should you go to a country, should you not. For me, the right answer is you do go to these countries, but as you mentioned, you do go with that message. And you refuse to go without propelling that message. Formula One is, you are right. Formula One has a massive influence on so many countries around the world. And they should use that influence regardless of where they're going.

Their message should remain absolutely undeterred. Their message should be the same regardless of whether they're doing the US Grand Prix, whether they're doing the Saudi Arabia Grand Prix, whether they're doing the Japanese Grand Prix. It doesn't matter. Their message, what they stand for should be exactly the same. and they should communicate it in the same way. And the fact that it probably won't be that way, I'm interested to see exactly how they approach,

you know, the pre-race gestures or whatever they call them. I'm interested to see how that works out. The Wii raises one messaging, does that remain as prevalent in Qatar as it would do in any other country? It better do, because if it isn't, it doesn't mean anything. It means absolutely nothing

if you are willing to adjust the way that you approach based on the country that you're racing for. To be honest, regardless of whether it's Qatar or anywhere else, I think a 10-year deal is a bit ridiculous for a circuit that they've never raced around before. You know, you've just got no reference points. And as much as it pains me to say it, the sofa analogy that Sam gave is dead on the money.

It's accurate. You would never do such a thing like that. And it's pretty much the same thing here. You have no idea whether you're going to turn up this year and next year in 2023, most specifically. You have no idea whether you're going to turn up and it's going to be an absolute banger, or you've got no idea if you're going to turn up and it's going to be a snooze vest. No idea. We can make judgments based on outlines.

You know, we can make judgments that that quarter will probably be good for overtaking. That quarter of all that might be good. But you don't know. You don't know until you're there. I think you could probably look at the outline of Abu Dhabi and think that's probably a belter of a circuit. You get there? Not really. So I don't think you can make the judgment based on an outline.

And yeah, you don't want to make that sort of commitment before at least finding out what it's all about. But I don't know how Formula One are going to manage this over the next few years because now Qatar have got a 10 year deal. I know that they want to bring back South Africa. I know that that's on the agenda. Harry will be delighted, but there are heavy rumours that Korea is coming back. Long live, young now. Heavy rumours.

Leonam? I don't know if it's Youngnam specifically, but South Korea as a country, yes. So maybe. Maybe you know. No, the Lord. But, you know, there's got to be, there can't be that many races.

They're going to have to find, they're going to have to find spots somewhere and you just got to hope that we don't get rid of some belting races to potentially find some ones that aren't as exciting. But yeah, it's a complex one, Qatar, based on, based on, you know, going to a brand new circuit in the first place makes it a bit complex, but the human rights issues as well.

That just makes it even more. All right. F1, pump the brakes. It's the final segment of the day. let's get onto it pump the brakes oh you feel it every time every time just get a bit of tension in the shoulder

oh there it is feel it in my knee can't yeah F1 pump the brakes if you haven't listened before is a game we like to play where we will each give one statement a fairly bold statement a lot of the time and the other two people

will have to say whether they should pump the brakes on that appearance because you are dead wrong or whether they should keep going because actually they have a right to think that opinion. If both of the other players say pump the brakes, that's where Dave Benson Phillips walks in the British TV legends because he will gunge you. Gungs me, daggie! Dave! Dave Benson Phillips. He's been chomping at the bit for weeks to get back on the show and he's here ready.

ready with the gunge if it's necessary. One day we're going to have actual Dave Benson Phillips on this show and our podcast listeners are going to metaphorically poop their pants. Honestly, I would happily do a YouTube video with Dave Benz and Phillips with F1 related questions and actual gunge. I will more than happily commit myself to that. There's no questions. I'll be there. I mean, it's hardly a revelation, Sam. That was fair. It's fairly obvious you would do that.

I'm being the gun through choice. All right. Harry, what have you got for a pub the brakes? My pump the brakes for this week is that F1 drivers should have an age cap, age limit. They can only drive up to a certain age. Do you want me to explain? Do you want to carry it?

I want you to explain this, please. Explain. There is a chronic problem with lack of seats in F1. Doesn't look like we're getting any new team soon. Maybe in 2025, maybe not. But we never really get past any. The max we've had over the past few years is 24 cars on the grid. I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

So to encourage, and King of the Fernando Alonzo fan club here, but to encourage drivers to not just stick around in seats, there should be a limit. I'm not going to propose an age. You want to be ageist, which may be this opinion. I'm not going to be agest, but... Is it like it 60? Yeah, I still wouldn't be on enough for Kimmy.

But yeah, as a solution to keep the flow of young drivers coming into F1, not to keep blocking it up as it seems to happen. We get an influx and it stops because there's no seats left. So, yeah, that is my solution. Sorry to old people. I like you still. Don't worry that. Interesting.

So before we give our verdicts, both myself and Sam give our verdicts on this, just to say that we do have a Discord channel and one of the channels within there is pump the brakes. So you can give your opinion in there to whether Harry should pump the brakes and also offer up your own.

We've always got people giving their own bold opinions and saying whether we should pump the brakes or not. Sam, for this one specifically, what should he do? I think he should bump the brakes! Sorry, Dave, get yourself ready, mate.

You got, yeah, gun drink, good. Honestly, I think it is actually not a bad idea, but talent is talent, and I don't think you could deprive the best racing drivers in the world just because they creep over a certain age group. Let's say you set it at 35 that eliminates a lot of people

such as our seven-time reigning world champion and I want to see him go will-to-world Max Stauffin for a couple of seasons if possible. Fernando, he's been on Revelation since his comeback so Mivet will be out soon. Daniel Ricardo can only be a couple of years away and Kimmy Riking will have turned to dust right now. So I'm going to exclude Kimmy

because my thoughts on him are clear. But no, I was much I love the concept. I think it's right to bring more young drivers in. I don't, unfortunately, think this is the right way to do it. So I will pump the brakes. What if we brought back GP Masters, that series that was only around for a few years

where old retired drivers went and raced? And if you were too odd for F1, you'd go in there, like a retirement home. Yeah, I love it, just for elderly drivers. I mean, loads of sports have Masters series and senior tour, on the PGA for golf. Do you remember Masters football?

Please tell me you remember Masters football. Oh, no. There are British people who will be saying, yes, Masters football was the best bringing back Sky Sports, but clearly not every of you two were on board. GP Masters was good, but apart from the fact that just Nigel Mansell won everything, and then they get rid of it.

Dr. Nige? Yes, Dr. Nige. Yeah, anyway. Sorry, Ben. So by the rules of the game, Sam has told you to pump the brakes. So if I also disagree with you, you will be getting gunged. Harry Ead, I have known you for nine years now. Nine years.

And you give a lot of awful predictions on this podcast. Awful predictions. And I can honestly say in those nine years, that is the worst thing you've ever said in your life. Pop the brakes, man. Come on, Dave! I will say I understand where you're coming from in terms of the problem. But that is not the solution. Talent is talent, as the famous Sam Sage said, like two minutes ago.

Yeah, I don't want to get rid of great drivers. I don't care how old they are. I don't care if they're 30, 40. I don't care if we've got a 65-year-old Kimmy Rikin are going around. If he's quick, he's quick, and I want him in the sport. Would I honestly, let's say the age limit is 40? Would I rather have a 40-year-old Fernando Alonzo forcibly kicked out of Formula One to get a new driver in?

No, I wouldn't because Alonzo's box office. I want the best drivers in Formula One. I don't care how old they are. And actually, if you look at a lot of the drivers, we've got a great influx of young drivers coming through. I think this is highlighted somewhat by the likes of Piastri who should really be getting a chance in Formula One, who isn't. But I would say overall over the last few years, the drivers that should have made Formula One have made Formula One. I think, you know, the likes of Russell, Norris, specifically Leclair, they've all got there and they should have got there.

And the ones that haven't, maybe aside from Piastri this year, maybe DeVries from a few years ago, go. I think by and large, though, everyone that's deserved it has made it eventually. So I'm going to tell you to pump the brakes. And as a result of that, Dave Benson Phillips is getting paid. Oh, no. That's your 50p, Dave. 50p. Oh. Oh, dear. We don't pay Dave Benson Phillips 50p. We pay him 50% of everything we make from a podcast. So 30p.

The money is surprising me low, thanks. Given the quality of the content, it really isn't. I thought I'd buy a lunch sometimes, just a sandwich. All right, Sam, we know you have some pretty crazy opinions. I'm not sure if Charles LeClaire's won the 2019 Formula One World Championship yet, but it's all, you know, he might do. What's your opinion? Okay, folks. My pump the brakes, I believe that all of the F1 teams should have to run a third car of the same spec,

but it can't be developed, can't be changed, that a young development driver can drive after they move up. And I believe they should not compete in the main driver's title, all the constructors, but they will compete in their own smaller title throughout the season, but they race in the same race as the main drivers. So you'd have an extra 10 cars on the grid. They would compete for places as normal, but they will compete in their own championship at the same time, which I think would allow for more development of young drivers.

So that is my pump the brakes. So almost a different solution to the same problem that Harry's brought to the table. Just to, so we've got all of the information here. So there would be 30 drivers for every single grogery. 10 of them would have to be new drivers. presumably any age young drivers as well I'm guessing or

again I'm not going to be ages so no they can be any age they want but they can't have competing in Formula 1 for another team they can't go back to that no they can't go back to that seat so any one time race starters I'm thinking of you Andre Lottor completely out okay sorry Andre

alright okay and they have their own championship and they sorry did you say they do contribute to the constructors or they don't. They don't. They've got their own championship. And they're competing with the current spec car, but that car is not developed throughout the year. So they become less competitive versus the field as the year goes on.

Yes, I think I'm creating a great spec of racing. I'm just making sure we put all the details right here. Harry, what do you think? Well, it's not as good as my solution, so pump the brakes, mate. He's going to be bitter. Sorry, but I don't want to prevent elderly people from having to have. I see the logic, again, like mine I guess, I think my issue with it is by the end of the year

they're just going to be a bloody nuisance, just in the way because there'll be even the fastest car, if it's not been developed by the end of the year, it's going to be maybe back after the top 10 maybe. Fun? It's just like 10 and 9. people going around the circuit but I I do like that maybe it could be trying for GP2 a GP2 F2 where it's how old are you?

Are you restricting of this podcast? I don't know I wouldn't make it for my own age gap in F1. I'm not old. Yeah I'm going to say breaks I think I think I like the idea that there's some like F1 teams have to back a car maybe in F2 but I don't know whether that's the quite the solution and obviously it's not as good as mine so sorry

obviously Sam I've got some good news and I've got some bad news oh where's my umbrella the good news is your idea was better than Harry's yay the bad news is that's literally the only good news about this

I I say it's better than Harry's because I think you're on the right track. I would personally adapt the sprint qualifying to have younger drivers in almost the same sort of idea as yours really, but not in the same race. I think 30 drivers in the same Grand Prix. Can you imagine that at Monaco? Yes, I want that at Monaco. It might make it fun for once. I think it would make it less fun, to be honest.

No, everyone crashes. I don't know. But I find sometimes in Formula 3, because Formula 3 you have three cars per team, so 30. I sometimes find that if you're not in the top 10, you get lost in the mix, which I think might happen here. And there is the issue of they would become less competitive

as the year goes on, which would be a bit of an issue and would make drivers look worse as the season goes on, which I don't think would be the intention. So I think there is room for something similar to that, but I would have it as its own separate championship completely and in a sprint setup. Fine.

So Dave Benson Phillips. Dave, let me go put my shorts on. Double pay. Man's on double hours. Come on, Dave, let's get on. Oh, yes. It's not even a bank holiday. And he's getting paid double is our own.

It's a bank holiday for day. It is. It is. Holiday with a bank he's made of us. The question is, though. I think it's time for you. I don't think we've ever had a triple gunging, but we might well do now. I'll do an X Factor style voiceover for triple gunging if it happens.

I'm excited to hear that, which makes me want to do a really ridiculous one now. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I think that Lewis Hamilton will win the driver's championship. I think I've predicted that pretty much. every year we've ever done predictions and it served me pretty well. However, despite all of his success, despite every sign saying, don't bet against Hamilton because he'll prove you wrong, I'm going against that. I am going to say that Max Verstappen is now going to win the driver's championship, but that by itself is definitely not a pump-the-break scenario. My pump-the-break scenario is that Max Verstappen will win the driver's championship this year and he will do so by more than 25 points.

I mean, you've already discriminated against your own prediction at the start of the year. You can't come up me for that, given your Bortas prediction, Sam. I mean, it's very fair. It's very fair, I can't. I think, considering the ups and downs we've seen, I think that's a pure shot in the dark, whether that can happen or not. And I think we would need to have some kind of DNF. As you can tell, I'm losing my voice, folks. So because of that, I am going to simply leave it there and say,

pump the brakes, Mr. Benjamin. Oh, no. Sam, don't lose your voice. Wow, that was a... Oh, no. Oh, no. Don't do it. Please, please talk to me.

Anything but that. Harry, are you going to release the gunge? I am afraid I'm Ben, but not necessarily because of your choice of driver. I think I still think... either way. I honestly couldn't call this one, but 25 points, no. We've seen how

the most it got to this year was 30 points and a race or two later it had gone back again to only a few points and we're only at two now. It was only like five beforehand, so yeah, I don't think it's going to be that much of a margin. I think whoever wins it will only win it

by a whiskers worth of points. so Sam get your I mean your voices going but uh get your X Factor style announcement ready triple gunging oh no Dave Benson Phillips he's been he's very moist folks he's very moist chair off his chair that much gunch

oh dear well triple gunging triple gunging mark it down everybody um 30th 30th of September, as we record this, be October probably by the time you're listening to this, but it's the day of the first triple gunge. What day in October, we don't know?

Yeah, you could even be watching later than that. If you're watching in October, 2027, how are you? Glad you well. If you have learned to watch podcasts in 27, I'd like to go how, because I will be around, hopefully. So let me know. Oh, that will come in in a few years' time. We'll be perfectly there in terms of the technology by 2027, don't you worry?

All right. I will play the pump the brakes theme one more time. You ready for the car crash? One more time. Pump the brakes! Kaboom. There it is. Very interested to know, would you have told all three of us to pump the brakes based on our opinions?

Interested to hear on that. Get into the Discord, let us know. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind, until the next. Preview Podcast, getting us out of here. Well, folks, as Benjamin said, the next preview podcast where we are previewing the next Grand Prix, and it is the Turkish Grand Prix. Bautas must be absolutely ecstatic after last year. I'm sure he cannot wait to go around the triple left-hander.

Infamous. Of course, we're going to be back next week discussing everything. If you just cannot wait, if you think, you know what, I haven't seen Sand Ben and Harry for enough days this week, so jump in the Discord. Come and say hello, we've got over 160. people in there which baffles me including my mother yeah she's decided to hop in

which is somewhat bizarre to all of us but there she is um you know yeah come say hello come join me with the fun it's absolutely lovely let's know what you thought all the topics discussed because we always want to hear your opinions come and give us a follow on Twitter at Elle breaking and if you know what you really love the podcast you think

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