The Late Braking F1 Podcast - EPISODE 1 - WHAT NEXT FOR MCLAREN?

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

Episode 1 of the Late Braking Podcast. After Fernando Alonso's announcement that he will be retiring at the end of the season, we ask, What Next For McLaren? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name's Ben Hocking. My name is Harry Eve. And my name is Samuel Sage. And welcome to the late breaking podcast here on Drive Tribe. On to today's topics as I get bombarded by helicopter noises apparently. We're talking about McLauram and also mainly, but we'll get a kick off by just talking about the seats that's been left, the void in the sport that's made us all emotional. Guys, what is going on with McLaren? Science has just signed.

Is it a good thing, bad thing? What's happening with the other seat? Kick us off. well i'm just going to put it out there before we start do you do you think formula one teams and drivers have forgotten what the concept of a summer break is quite possibly because there seems to be more activity now that at any point during the season and of course just a few hours before we're ready to go live uh they've decided that carlos signs is going to go to mcclaren now which kind of threw it all up in the air a bit um yeah where do mcclaren go from here fernando alonzo has been a staple of the of the team for so long now. They've obviously lost an incredible driver. No doubt about that. They've also gained

a lot of money because they're not spending so much on this guy now. I wonder if Carlos Sines is as expensive as Fernando Alonso. I don't think so. I don't think so. Probably not. Yeah, I think obviously Sines has now been confirmed. I like the move from McLaren, to be honest.

I think Sines is talented. He had a very good 2017. He hasn't had a great 2018 so far. But he's a multi-year deal. And I think if you give signs the chance to have a few years at McLaren, let the team revolve around him, make it at home, because he said in previous interviews that he isn't happy with one-year deals that he keeps getting. Now he's got a multi-year deal. Maybe he can grow into this role and be the new leader of the team like Alonzo was. Yeah. And for signs, it's, you know, which is boyhood dream come true, isn't it? He's literally

following in his hero's footsteps, uh, footstep, sorry. It's, it might seem on the outside like an odd one because you'd say, well, he can't stay around it, obviously, that it's full up.

But there's a chance he could have gone to Red Bull. I think we'll get onto that. But I think it's a good move. If Red Ball didn't want him or weren't going to take him, that's probably his best option. And like you say, he can build a team around him now,

depends who his teammate is. But we'll see. Yeah, this could be, it could be the making of signs. And if McClain are, are on an upward trajectory, which they technically are from last year, wasn't hard. Yeah. If they are, then this gives them the chance to build team around it. But anyway, Sam, what do you think? Could move for science?

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty lovely. Like you said, he's kind of, he's following in his his hero's tire marks almost, isn't it? Because obviously, but it's exciting. And science has done deal now. And the other sticky situation with Carran have is, or every team has, there are two seats to every team, not just the one. Stoffel Van Dorn, I don't think he will be there come the 2019 season. And I think this sticks McLaren and many drivers on two possible paths. The first one, which we discussed slightly before the stream started, was that Stoffel would go to Toro Rosso,

and then Tora Roso would put Gassley up to Red Bull. Red Bull would then have a Gassi for Stappan partnership. Gatling de Stappan aren't the best of friends. They've always had a bit of a rivalry. Not sure how well they would click. but Verstappen, even though he is so young, would lead the team. The other issue there, of course, is if Vandor would still go to Torosso, but then Ocon would go from Force India to Red Bull,

and Stroll would fit into Red Bull, no, not Red Bull, Force India, next to Perez, and then someone would go into Williams. Did you want? Did you follow that, ladies and gents? Good, because I did. No, I see what you're saying, though, Sam. Yeah, I think there is a very good chance that one of the McLaren guys does go to Toro because they have got too many drivers for two seats.

They've got signs in one of them, obviously. And I think they'll either stick with Van Dorn or they will take Lano Norris, and then the other one is going to be shipped off to Toro Rosso, because we know that McLaren won James Key from Toro Rosso. So some sort of deal there would work out quite well. Maybe they can get away with sending Nick to freezeover, but I'm not sure if they'd go for him. Eric on Facebook has asked about Stoffel's future.

The thing is with Stoffel, there's part of me now that thinks maybe they should keep him because he'll be in a team that's not called Alonzo in it. So maybe this is the chance to prove himself. But actually, I think they might palander in the car. Yeah. So apart me thinks he should stay in McLaren, but then also apart of me thinks maybe he should leave the McLaren atmosphere

and go somewhere else, go to Tor also. Because then there's every chance. could end up one day in a red ball, which might be perfect. Yeah, I think with McLaren now, it's full on rebuilding mode. Zach Brown has said that there is very little chance that the team is going to win before the next five to ten years. And that's just the way that it is. They've cost themselves dearly.

They've tried this Renault move, and it hasn't worked out for them. They're going to have to hope for some sort of 2021 miracle, because at the moment they are so far behind the top three. teams and there's no real reason to think it's going to change any time soon. So to have signs in that car, to have another youngster in that car, it's a future project now. Who would you give it to? Who would you give up the second seat to? I personally think Van Dorm deserves another year. What, do with Lando then? I think Lando can weigh you. What, just do nothing? Well, I mean, there's other championships around the way. He might not win Formula 2, which means he can have a second

chance of that. If he does win Formula 2, maybe he does go to Toro Rossi for a year and then they can take him back. I don't know. There's loads of different options for. Maybe he joins a longso at Indycar for a year. Let me that, Lando Anando taken on Indycar. That is a great series. I would watch a YouTube series of that. No, it's sitcom. Yeah, sitcom. That's a good idea. Just to say, I saw a start earlier going back to the point of it being such an inexperienced line up. and how signs and whoever it is isn't going to have that much racing pedigree, if you know what I mean. This will be the first season since 1994, so that's 25 years next year,

that they will have no race winner on the team. And it will be the first time in McLaren's history that they will not have a driver who has got a podium in F1. It's bad. It's bad reading, isn't it? And it's the first time since 2008, they've not had 8. champion in the team, which says a lot about McLaren that, you know, even in the bad times, they still had Alonzo.

Well, they had Alonzo and Butt in that. So, yeah, so I know, and even in L8, they had Hampton, who was basically a champion by then. I knew it wasn't, but it wasn't far off there. So, yeah, it's, like you say, it's a rebuilding stage for them, but it's, it's an odd one for them to find, it's not a position for them to find themselves in, because their biggest asset It has just, he's just walked off. He's not walked off yet. Nine races,

dime's going to walk off. But yeah, I don't know. I don't say worrying, but concerning times of McClaren. Yeah. Are you worried about the future for McLaren? Yeah, I think realistically, McLaren, when they say rebuild,

need to look at that kind of new regulation time, you know, in the next few years. And I think being such a lucrative brand that they are, they need to go out and do something. Here's what I think they need to do. So everyone holds your hands. I think that, they realistically need to get rid of Renault before the new regulations come in.

They need to stop them. I know. They only got Honda a couple of years before that. They need to go out and they need to bring in a brand new engine supplier that isn't in Formula One to have total control of that agent supplier and one that can deliver power. Both Renault and Honda have never been renowned for delivering powerful setups. And that is what McClarin are lacking. They need someone on the lines of Porsche.

they need some of the ones of Chevrolet. They need someone who can come in there and deliver raw horsepower and if they can get back to developing a chassis and aerodynamic brilliance on the track that allows them to actually deliver results. And I think MacLer is such a lucrative brand that they are able to do that. It's a negative they don't have their own engine supplier,

but it's a positive that they can go out and sell themselves like Formula One prostitution to a new engine supplier elsewhere and bringing more watches to form no one. Apologies if that was X-rating from our watching. So yeah, I think that's what my client

need to do. Rebuilding from the ground up. I mean, you said hold on to your hats. Yeah, X-rated content, but I was holding onto my hat, so I'm okay. I don't even know where to go from that. Can we go anywhere from that?

No, so Neil's on the Facebook chat saying that he believes all the teams are setting so I was up to 2021. And I think drivers too, because no one's signing a contract passed 2020. Yeah, that's a good point. Actually, this signs... Well, signs might go past.

It's a multi-year deal, so at minimum it goes to 2020, potentially longer. I don't know. Yeah, I think he made some good points. I think McLaren going with a new engine supplier is risky, but it might be what they need in order to succeed again. They thought that last time with Honda. That's the problem. They've gone with Honda, who were a year behind in terms of development,

and that didn't work out at all. So someone like Porsche and Chevrolet, on the one hand, could be a Masterstroke. On the other hand, it could completely fail, and they'll be back to where they were five years ago. Yeah, my issue with the Honda move was that they did it for nostalgia. They did it to bring back those fans that loved it where they had a partnership way before. And I think it was a little bit kind of a last grass move. You know, we failed for a while. What can we do?

Oh, let's bring back the good old days. It really didn't pay off. And they've almost opened the door now for Red Ball to succeed. I think they need to go completely fresh and do that now behind the backs of Formula One and go these are the regulations. You've got three years to develop the engine we need. Please go and do that.

Yeah, indeed. Should we move on to Mr Fernando Alonzo? He's been in the news recently, isn't he? What's he been up to? My heartbreaks. I can't remember. What's happening with Alonzo? It's gone on holiday.

Oh, he's gone on holiday. Forever! He's never coming back. Actually, he's already said. in his leaving leaving video or whatever I might come back still yeah that's just

Alonzo isn't it of course he's not going to make anything definitive I mean where does Alonzo rank amongst the grains we discussed this

a couple of months ago I think on a stream but might as well speak about it again thanks to the news he's not he's not the greatest but

I see I wrote a piece yesterday about his top moments in F1 I think he's up there as sort of defining a generation of Formula One. He's in the top three

with Vettel and Hamilton in terms of this generation of F1. And actually, and he was there first. He was one that took over the mantle from Schumacher. So you can't take that away from him, despite the fact he only did get two championships. He's got to be up there's one of the greatest

all-round drivers. I think Hamilton's quicker a round lap. And it would have been great to see them actually baffle out now. 2018, Hamilton and Alonso would have been a classic, but we're not going to see that, sadly. Yeah, he's one of, not the greatest. I'd put him top eight.

Yeah, it's not narrowing it down, is it? No, it's a safe region. I'd probably agree with you on that. Yeah, unbelievable racecraft. Yeah, he's a great person. I have to say, with the Hamilton-A-Lonzo thing, I'm kind of glad that it didn't happen because part of me thinks the Hamilton would have beaten him. If 2007 Hamilton, if 2007 Hamilton,

match 2007 Alonso. I think 2018 Hamilton is quite a bit better than 2007 Hamilton was. I think 2018 to Alonzo is quite a bit better than 20s. I don't think the improvement is quite as much. But, I mean, that's just complete and utter hindsight. We will never know. Yeah, I think there were times in Alonzo's career where he made good racing drivers look like amateurs.

You know, Massa was completely destroyed by Alonzo. Kimi Reikinen, 2014, completely destroyed. by Alonzo. And if you look at the amounts of championships, he could have won. I mean, two championships indicates that he's not as good a driver as he should have been. But there were so many championships he missed out on. He won 05, he won 06. There's eight points, isn't it?

Eight points off being five times world champion. Yeah, he should have won 07. Should have won 10. I mean, if 07 had worked out well, it'd probably have been there in 08 and would have maybe won that as well. True. O'9, he had the opportunity to move to Braun. And if he did that, it'd have been a world champion. Oh, 70 apparently, yeah, so he had the chance to move to Red Bull,

so he could have had all the Vettles Championships. Yeah, in 2010 he had a chance, 2012 he had a chance. If you stick with Ferrari, he might have been a world champion last year. There's so many, I know it's if buts and maybes, but there are so many reasons as to why Alonzo probably should have won more than two World Championships. Do you think he's underperformed in his career, Sam, at all? I think he's been incredibly unlucky, and by unlucky, I mean, he has forged himself the wrong halfway.

he chose the wrong decision pretty much every single time after he won his two world titles. As you say, eight points from five world titles is a ridiculous statistic. He could be in the top three or four drivers of all time ever. He's definitely my top ten favourite drivers of all ever in terms of personality, racecraft ability. I don't necessarily think he's always going to be the best there. Like you said, Hamilton I think would beat him. I think him and Vettel across a season would be incredibly close.

I don't think he comes to close to the likes of Schumack. or Sena, but that doesn't mean that he isn't one of the most incredible driven people on the track that we've seen. You know, he commands a race track. He doesn't command the team. When he's on that track, he has an aura about him. He fans love him regardless of who they support, what's him they support, and he will go down as a legend of the sport.

I've seen a lot of people actually surprisingly say that he was toxic for the sport and they're glad that he's moved on. It's glad that his time he's taken away from the sport. I disagree. Personally, I've always enjoyed that drama, that flair about him. But I can understand why some people think that. A lot of teams didn't want to work with him because he caused arguments. He provoked division. He frustrates the other drivers into not being their best.

And that isn't always what you want in a team. And I love a long-soe. And I must admit, that's him and I would rather he be in the sport and cause that toxicity. But I'm sad to see him go. He goes down for me in the top seven of eight drivers of all time. And I'm a bit emotional. have a little cry I was going to say

I saw I can't remember who said it I might have been on Andrew Benson or someone but they said he probably needed someone stronger than himself just to take him to one side and you know

stop those sort of political situations behind the scenes but they also said there probably isn't anyone who's stronger in the head than him so it was I mean if Briotori couldn't do it then I don't think anyone could to be honest

I thought that was a very telling point that, yeah, he needed someone, but he could never, there was never anyone who's never really stop him. Yeah, absolutely. I think he's spot on Sam, to be honest, because I think his biggest weakness is something that's not even related to his racing. His biggest weakness was always behind the scenes and his decision making and where he went. Christian Horner on Beyond the Grid, the new F1 podcast just two weeks ago, said with the Red Bull seat opening up, and this is a quote. He said, I have huge respect for Fernando. He's a great driver, a fantastic driver, but it's very difficult. He's tended to cause chaos wherever he's gone.

This is a team manager saying this. This is one of the guys who is responsible for recruiting drivers saying this. So if he's saying it, of course it must be true amongst the F1 paddock. You've got an incredibly talented driver. Christian Horner doesn't dispute that in his quote. And he would not even consider him for one of the potentially race winning seats in F1 because of who he is as a person. And it's disappointing that that. kind of got in the way of his careers, particularly in the second half of his career. Yeah. And whether he'll look back and think the same, I don't know, I think probably he wouldn't,

but it is definitely true. He's made some bad calls, I think, behind the scenes. Anyway, he ended up in McLaren again. So what do we think? His second still in McLaren, no wins, no podiums. Few points. Emphasis on few, I'm afraid. There weren't many.

There weren't many. There are still a few stand-out, stand-up performances, I think. He raced very well. I think he raced very well when Jensen Button was there, and the last couple of years he's done everything he can with the car that he's had under him. And I don't actually think it's damaged his reputation as much as people think it has. I don't think it hasn't. In fact, maybe not at all.

Yeah. He's shown that he has another weapon in his arsenal almost, and that he can bring up a team that is doing pretty badly and can race the pants off it and get as many points as possible. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure why he joined in the first place. I know the... I didn't like... What was he called?

The one before Reefibene, Ferrari, Matiachi? Yeah, but... He was there for a bit in 2014 after Domenicoe left. Don't think they got on at all. Yeah. But obviously, if it stayed at Ferrari, it'd be in a much, much better position now. Would he have stuck out? I know 15 said had wins, but would he have stuck out for 15,

a bad year and 16 to get 17. Would he have made that? Yeah, I think he would have done, because I don't think there was any other better alternatives. He moved away from Ferrari when Ferrari were above McLaren in the standings, and McLaren, when he was joining them, were just losing their Mercedes engine, which was clearly the most dominant engine in 2014. But he decided to go to a team which had a new engine coming in that was one year behind. in terms of development and hadn't been looking like winning a championship

for like six years it was on that point. So, yeah, I still can't quite understand why Alonzo did decide to move in the first place and then it didn't end up working out very long.

Is there a standout standout McLaren performance in your mind? From his seconds then. Yeah, yeah. Hungary, I think. What, last year? Yeah.

Hungry last year. Sam, do you have a standout Second stint McLaren-A-Lonzo performance. That's a mouth. What wind in question. Hungary, yeah, was brilliant. Recently, his Azerbaijan performance, I thought, was blibing brilliant. That was a fantastic

showing. I think something that I'm going to discover about Fernando Alonso now, before you've all had the revelation, is that I think he'd be a really good team boss. Yes. He basically was a team boss, by the end of McLaren. I think, well, he has his sting in Indycarp,

and he goes away for a while after he really retires for motorsport. And maybe in 10, 15 years time, if he were to come back and play a major role in the management of a team, I think he will have matured enough to really channel that passion and know-how and knowledge into a team. And I think he could be great in team management. I think he could build a team around him.

And league a team, like McLaren later on down the line, to brilliant, maybe his own team. He's got enough sodding money to make one. Decker chair F-1. Deck chair F-1. Make it happen. Karma, Kama F1, Karma racing.

It'd be interesting to see a lot. GP2 engine racing. Back to the point. Alonzo in management. I think it'd be an exciting prospect because not many drivers who are as good as Alonzo tend to make it very far in management.

No disrespect to the likes of Pritchin Horner, but he wasn't exactly Lewis Hamilton, was he, in his racing career? Neither was Toto Wolf, remember? Well, I mean, look at the the guys who have been good F1 drivers and have gone into management or team ownership, Alam Pross, Jackie Stewart. Bramehill.

I mean, yeah, he was owning and driving at the same time. True, that is very true. Yeah, it very, very, very tends to. That would be Alonzo. Alonzo would own and drive the car at the same time. He'd be 56 and he'd still drive. That sounds like Alonzo. I'd have Barakello as his team, mate.

Yeah. I reckon, anyway. Just something about Alonzo, his second stym, is there any point in the last few years where you think he should have bailed and try something else? What, at McLaren? Yeah. Since he's joined. Do you think there was a point where this was never going to work and he should have begged to get somewhere else? I think the beginning of 17.

That was the, that's the moment he should have. But then where he'd have gone? That's the only thing. He could have tried. I think you look, 15 was bad, 16 was better, he was brilliant, but they were getting there. And then 17 was promised to be the better year. And it wasn't. And they had the best shatty in F1.

But when it didn't work, when they realized they couldn't even start it up without breaking down, that's when. Or maybe when he joined him 15, but you can't believe that and you're committed. So, yeah, I don't know where it would have gone. I was going to say, do you think the bad McLaren phase, is it going to be like the making of the next, you know, the next stage of Fernando Lodz's career? Because without the bad McLaren, he wouldn't have done Indy, and then it wouldn't have opened up these options to do WEC,

because Zach Brown was trying to keep him and trying to keep him happy. So he might not have done these things. I think he would have done. What, just afterwards? Yeah, I think he would have got there one way or the other. Maybe he got there as soon. Yeah, maybe he's got there soon. sooner because of his links that he's developed whilst being at McLaren.

But yeah, I think it would have happened at one point anyway. Yeah, to be honest, I don't think Fernando Alonzo made a bad decision sticking around for this year. You know, something could have happened. Yeah, the Renault engine was the last throw of the dice. It was unlikely that they were going to be propelled right to the top again alongside Ferrari and Red Bull. Obviously, it didn't work out that way, but it was worth a gamble at least. there was nothing else going on in his career where he would have been better suited elsewhere.

But obviously now we've discovered that McLaren's issues run much, much deeper than the Honda engine presented back in 2017. And we know that short-term success isn't going to happen, which is why he's moved on. All right, then, when he's he moved on? Where's he moving on? Sam, where's he moving on? Well, it's obviously down the local track, down the road selling candy floss, but... Candy floss? a lot to floss Anyway

No he's obviously off to Indy car McCarran wants to go there This gives them a direct link With the driver That already has the aspiration He's a racer through and through Isn't he's always wanted to race

He always wants to race You know it's his home In that very emotional video That he presented on social media He said that he puts that visor down And he feels a warm embrace Of motorsport or Formula One And I don't think he walks to lose that

I think that is his life. Like a footballer on a football pitch, I think that is his life, his dream. And I think even if he left, say, after the first year with Honda using McLaren, which I think probably would have been the better time for him to go. He's still have years to build something. I think he'll go on to do Indycard, then WEC even more.

I think he will win the Triple Crown, and I think he'll win multiple world titles at other things. He just won't do it in Formula One, and that makes me very sad. I saw a story I don't know if it was true but he's got a test for IndyCar coming up So yeah that's true

For McLaren If they want to keep ties And Zach Brown is He's a marketing man He's not gonna He's not stupid If he can keep Some sort of link to Alonzo

You know He does IndyCar But they've got a few McLaren stickers On the side of his Indycar I don't think He's going to be an Indycar team Is it Maclaan?

I think that's falling through Yeah that's gone quiet So But even certainly If they can keep the links, why not? Keep the guys happy. So, yeah, we might seem back in F-1 one day, but I'd like to, but he's getting on a bit now, isn't he?

Yeah, that's the thing. He is at the end of his career, rather than at the beginning of it, he's got more years behind him than ahead of him. Do I can do with Fulmanorish? After all of the GP2 engine stuff, I don't think he's going to go into a car that is significantly slower. I hope he goes to Indy car, and I hope he does it full time.

It's so good to see. Yeah. I'd love to see him in an equal car on a road car. Indy car would be awesome if he was going to do that. I would love to see him win the Triple Crown, which obviously involves him winning the Indy 500 now. But I would be just as happy to see him actually win the IndyCar Championship. I would maybe even happy to do that.

Do a Mansel. Yeah, yeah. Go and the Indy Car Championship. And let's face it, like if Alonzo does go to IndyCar Championship, car, that's going to do a huge amount for the sport this side of the pond. It's going to get... I know what it did when he went there for one...

Yeah, exactly. It's going to bring some sort of massive new market that is relatively untapped at the moment. Maybe he's got a deal with Chase Kerry. Conspiracy. Yeah, I know, exactly. Yeah, I wouldn't mind to see him in Weppereth, but...

Wait, what he is going to do? He's got... There's a double season of Weck. Oh, of course, yeah, he's carrying. on until next the moment, isn't he? He's still busy next year as well. Yeah.

It'll be around. Yeah, indeed. I think that's it, Maine. Is that it? You're calling it. Well, it's a good note to end on. We're not very good at that. Yes, boss.

Yes, we're going to be back next Thursday. Everyone's coming back. We're previewing a race. Yeah, I know. It doesn't really feel like we've actually been away, does it? I know. So much going on. Exactly.

Formula One returns to Belgium. for next weekend. So we will be previewing that race on Thursday. 7 o'clock, same time, as always, it'll be the three of us. I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Harry Ead. I've been Samuel Sage, and goodbye to Fernando Alonso. Goodbye, man, love him.

See you again, Fernando Alonzo. Thank you for listening to the late-breaking podcast here on Drive Tribe. My name's Ben Hocking. My name is Harry Ead. And with love, with care. I'm Samuel Sage. Remember, keep breaking late. podcast network. From that first coffee of the day to dropping off your dry cleaning on the way. From stepping onto the subway to opening your doors to your first customer of the day.

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