The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Episode 50 with special guest Karun Chandhok! | Late Braking F1 Podcast

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

It's episode number 50! To celebrate we have a special guest on this week's podcast... Karun Chandhok joins us to talk all things Formula 1!Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the 50th episode of the Late Breaking Formula One podcast. We've reached a milestone, goodness knows how, but we're here. Harry Eve and Samuel Sage, of course, joining me as ever. But we're delighted to say that we are joined today by racing driver, columnist, and member of the Sky Sports F1 team, Karun Chandok.

Karin, thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely pleasure. Happy to chat with you guys. Yeah, and it comes at a good time as well. We've quite a lot going on in the F1 world, even in the absence of real-life racing. Plenty of moves in the driver market, which is, I think, where we'll start today.

And obviously with signs going to Ferrari at the time of recording, that's pretty recent news. And Ricardo, moving on to McLaren, it now leaves Renault in a bit of a spot. they need to fill a driver's sport that it's their turn to act. And they've got a decision. Do they go for youth or do they perhaps look at someone a bit more experienced? Karin, out of interest, I mean, where would you be looking at for Renault to go here?

They've obviously got Esteban Okon in one car. Would you be looking at them to look into their academy or perhaps look elsewhere for this second scene? Well, I had a quick scan of their academy drivers the other day because I was writing a column about this. And I can't see any of the names that jump out of me as someone that they could promote, even necessarily in a year's time. So I think, but equally, I'm not convinced that, you know, getting Fernando Alonzo for a lot of money is the way necessarily for them to go. Because, you know, as we've seen from the Ricardo experiment in the last year and a half,

I suppose, if you count up until now, it's not worked, does it? I think they're a team that they're probably better off spending the money and resources, building up the team and the infrastructure and gearing themselves up to make sure they hit the ground running in 22 with the new regulations, with a really competitive car that can challenge the top three teams. You know, they're a factory works team. They should be up there challenging the top three. And therefore, I'm not sure, you know, unless there's some sort of a deal where, let's say, you know, Fernando decides he's going to drive for free,

and there's a Spanish sponsor that is basically willing to pay his wages or something like that. So it's not costing Team Endstone any more money. Then, yeah, it's an obvious thing to do. But otherwise, you know, if it's going to come out of their pocket, when they signed Ricardo, I didn't believe it was the right thing for them at the time. You know, I think Daniel's a great driver. But I didn't think the team was ready or necessarily needed a driver of his stature.

you know, they could have carried on with Hulk and Carlos and made good progress. So, yeah, equally at this time, I think they'd be better off spending the money on the team to improve it and be ready for 22. So obviously Ocon is not unexperienced, but he's only had a few years in F1 coming off a gap year, so to speak. Would you have confidence in Renault,

putting him in that number one driver role? Or do you still think that someone, whoever that might be, needs to step into the role and just has that bit of experience. Well, the trickiest thing for Reno and all of this is, you know, they've obviously been caught off guard with Daniel leaving, and it's left them in a situation where they have to make the, they have to find the answer to the question you've just asked without having seen Ocon do a race for them.

So, you know, this is the unusual thing we've got with a COVID-19 situation is the, and that's why I don't believe. believe Reno should jump into a decision anytime soon. I think they're better off just, you know, all these other things have happened. They've fallen into place. So they're the next one down, really, who need to make a decision. And I think they need to take a minute to just breathe because let's say you don't know how the things will play out, right? You know, for example, if Mercedes decided to put Bottas in alongside Lewis again in 21, then could Renaud potentially get George Russell

or alternatively if George Russell goes to Mercedes could they have botas? I think there's a few other pieces in the puzzle because otherwise you know off the top of my head I'm struggling to think of a list of drivers apart from Halkenberg

Alonzo I can't see Vettel going there I just I don't know in my gut I just I just don't see it happening so you know the list is quite short and that immediately when you have a short list like that. It puts the team on the back foot when it comes to negotiations. So I think that may be better off just biting their time a little bit and seeing how the

market plays out. Yeah, absolutely. And like you say, there's not really an obvious candidate for it. And without going too hard on Renault here, they have kind of spice and diced as much as they've wanted to in the last few years with their drivers. And now suddenly they're the one in the difficult position. Sam, going on that Bottas thing, because that's a rumor that's come up over the last few days. It could be nothing, who knows. But could you see that happening? Of course, Ferrari and Red Bull are sort of planting their future in terms of Leclair and Vastappen. Mercedes might be considering something similar in terms of George Russell. So, Sam, could you see Bottas moving into that role if the cards play

that way? It's a really interesting situation, isn't it, submerged. I think if we were saying at the start of this season, Bottas to Renault within a year, we've all been laughed out of the room a little bit. but I almost from Bottas's point of view, don't understand the game unless he really wants to league a team. Mercedes have never put their foot down realistically and say, Bottas, if you're challenging for a title, we're going to let you take that title. You know, as Rosberg did with Hamilton,

theoretically, if Bottas gets to the last five races and their neck and neck on points going all the way, then the Mercedes have proven that realistically, they like to let their driver's race. And yes, okay, we've seen things where Lewis has been quite a few points ahead, and they've said, you know, Bottas can out the way, you know, your strategy isn't great, defends for Lewis, wing for the team. They've used him as that second driver, but that's only after he's fallen back into a negative

points deficit. So, but for Votas's hopes of winning a championship, it would be an odd move. Realistically, he's still in the best car. He's got a great relationship with his driver and the rest of the team. He's valued there massively. And he's still got a longer years and a lot of talent to give. But if he wants a change of scenery, he wants to possibly league a team. And If Renno have got something up there soon that we all don't know about, something where they can build a team, they've got strong aspirations going into the new regulations. Then, yeah, Bottas is possibly one of the best bets they've got. He's a proven race winner now.

He can fight at the front. We've seen, previously in his career back at Williams, that he can pull up a team that maybe is struggling or not doing their absolute best. And he's great will to will. Let's not deny that the guy can race well and race hard. So I think it'll be a good sign for Renno. I don't realistically see it happening. I'd be shocked. The same with Vettel.

In my gut, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem to be the move that would come off. I mean, with Alonso, I can't see it happening due to the fact that all their game is a big bill at the end of each month. And they'd have a bigger press around them for a little while. Yes, a longso can pull a car up. But what's the point? Long-term game, what are you really guessing out of that deal? So I think Karang is writing his point that you take some time.

You evaluate the situation. You see maybe he becomes available around the motorsport kind of area. they've got a great academy coming through. Of course, Jack Aiken recently just left, and it's now the Williams Reserve driver, which he'll be kicking himself for. That could have been a shot and a guaranteed F1C if they really need someone.

And if needs to be, maybe, they send out a slightly larger paycheck and they convicts Nikolkberg to come back in for a couple of seasons. He's very consistent in that midfield. He's always been strong there. He's not the absolute best driver we've ever seen on the grid. But there's no denying the man can score consistent points. He's got good in a team.

He's great for car development. he's not a bad choice to race against New Ockel for a couple of years and I think they get along well as a team. So they've got great options. I think the key here is not to rush and don't spend big, invest in the car, you've spent silly money in Ricardo

and then immediately being mugged off, so to speak, within a year of doing so. And that's come back to Bight Renaud after they had their issues with the likes of Palmer and science previously. They've now paid the price. So Ricardo wasn't the best fit and they paid heavily for it. The last thing they need to do is have exactly that happen a year later.

Take their time, relax. Botas is a great. driver, whether he's the right fit for them, I'm not too sure. And Harry, regarding Nico Holcomberg, do you think he'd be willing to come back just like that? Do you think it would take some convincing? Obviously, a seat in F1 is very coveted, but that that relationship didn't end too well? Yeah, I mean, we spoke about this briefly the other day. I don't know how desperate Nico is to get back to F1 at the moment.

if, yeah, he doesn't, I don't, I don't obviously know, but he doesn't seem to be scouting around other F1 teams or even other motorsports, to be honest. So, and whether he'd want to go back to Renaud, who sort of, who dumped him at the end of last year, I'm not too sure, but I'm sure that he must be on their radar, that whether Holkenberg wants to come back and whether he feels like he wants to come back is another issue,

but I would go with probably not. Curran, do you think he would have any reservations, Holcomburg, about returning to runner? I don't know. I think it's a question of, you know, what else is he up to in life? You know, at the moment, you know, I think he wanted to take some time out. When I last spoke to him, he says he's, you know, he's in no rush to jump into an indie car deal or a sports car deal. He just, you know, he wants to take a minute to just think about his life. obviously I think if you're if you're still motivated and and I think as a racing driver you always want to be in Formula One. I believe you know any opportunity in F1 is still worth a punt at if you haven't got any, you know, if you've anyone not got anything else outside.

It's totally different if he had a factory LMP One Drive paying a big bucks or a, you know, top Formula E seat, for example, then you'd question it. But in his case, I think he would consider it. But it's a big slap in the face for Reno, isn't it? For them to do a U-turn to rehire the guy that they've basically said wasn't good enough and they biffed him off, that's a bit of a slap in the face for them. I mean, just to go back to what Sam was talking about, I don't believe Bottas is going to leave Mercedes for Renault, by the way. I think the only way that might happen is if Mercedes replaced,

spot as with George Russell or O'Con or something like that, then, you know, he's forced to look for a seat somewhere else. But, you know, I don't think voluntarily anyone's going to vacate a Mercedes seat anytime. Yeah, you'd have to be a brave soul to do that. Or stupid. Yeah, I think stupid might be a more accurate word rather than brave. In terms of Renault themselves, obviously they suffered a real blip in 2019. But if you take that year out, they've kind of made progress year on year. this was probably going to factor into anyone moving to the team and indeed Ricardo moving away

from the team. Probably, you know, 2019 was too much of a dent in what Renault have envisioned. Do you think, Corinne, that 2019 was just a really bad season for Renault and the progress will continue? Or do you think this is a sign of things to come? It's impossible to tell. We can't tell that until we get racing and get underway. You know, at the end of the day, there's two questions in that question, aren't there? One is, are we going to see Reno close up to the midfield? Sorry, close up to the top three. And in which case, that is a genuine sign of progress even taking out 2019.

The other question is, are we going to see them even overhauled McLaren, their customer team? Because, you know, yeah, that means that's a little bit of progress, but it's not carrying on the trajectory from 2018. You know, that's the progress in 2019. So I think we need to see really once we've got a few races underway, whether it's in 2020, you know, hopefully we'll get some racing this year, but either way, the cars are going to carry over till 21. So we'll have an idea then. You know, the Renault, this year's Renault is quite a fundamentally different design. They've got a different nose front wing concept. You know, they've got for a completely different front suspension concept. So the car does look quite different from the 2019 car,

at least the one that we saw in testing. Now when we get to the first race, don't forget, even though the teams have been in shutdown, the designers and the engineers, their brains have still been active at home. I'm sure they've all been doing a few little sketches and drawings and thinking of ideas to improve the cars

that we saw in preseason testing. Yeah, absolutely. Moving away slightly from rent, know, of course, Sines has moved to Ferrari. It seems like there's some sort of an assumption that he's there to be a number two driver, maybe something that Ricardo wouldn't have done. Corin, do you see that happening? Do you think Sines is going to be as compliant as maybe some think he's going to be?

I think anyone who thinks Carlos Sines is going to be a number two driver has got it completely wrong. They've completely underestimated him. He's a very, very fast racing driver. He's a good racer. You know, I think we've seen in qualifying, he still needs to raise his game. But let's not forget that before LeCleur went to Ferrari, you know, when he was at Saoberg or Alperameo, we, that's what we were all saying about him, you know, is that his qualifying record wasn't great. He wasn't great at lining up his sectors. He was, in fact, at the worst record of anybody that season of lining.

up the three sectors on the qualifying lap. So, but then we get to 2019, and he's taught himself how to qualify. So I think that is entirely doable if the team work with the driver and have a good infrastructure around that driver. I think Carlos, you know, his tire management is good. He's a very cerebral driver. I think he's also very good at reading the race and reading the weekend. And what I mean by that is, if you look at 2017, 2018, McLaren, you know,

you know, weren't great at improving during a weekend. If they started Friday on the back foot in free practice, they tended to just have a bad weekend. Whereas in 2019, I thought we had more weekends where they had, you know, if they had a difficult Friday, then they were able to work well overnight and the drivers and team who were able to develop the car to be competitive at quality and especially for the races. So I think Carlos plays a good role in that. He's a good, you know, And in terms of strategy, he's good at understanding what his strategy is, understanding who he's racing against and what strategy is thereon. And all of that plays a real part in this Pirelli era of F1.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Sam, bringing you in on this one. Something that Science has alluded to quite a lot is that he's moved around a bit and he's failed to feel comfortable within a team. obviously he was one year at Renault, probably felt that he'd have been more up to speed in that second year. And now after one year at McLaren, he's moving away again. Do you think initially he might struggle to get up to speed,

even if he does get there eventually? We've seen in the past, haven't we, that when a driver tends to arrive at a big team, it takes a little while to kind of, you know, get your feet settled, get kind of everything level, get adjusted to the team and how the team work. But the thing is, obviously, you know, it's going to be obvious. Carlos is Spanish. He speaks Spanish and yet he's very good of those European

languages. And there's more of a culture shot from going from, you know, Spain and France where he was based with Renault, to then moving to England and changing that culture to England. When now, obviously, he's back to Italy. I actually think in terms of the adaptation from Renault to McLaren and now McLaren to Ferrari, it'll be more comfortable for him to go to McLaren to Ferrari than it was previously. Recler, though, is very, very comfortable that Ferrari team. He came out swinging last season. We saw in Melbourne, you know, last time out that they were pressuring LeCle to stay behind Vettel. Please stay back from Vettel, you know, don't push Vettel from race one. And he was comfortable. You know, I predicted last season that LeClau would beat Vettel,

and he came around and did that job. He was brilliant the whole way through. And there's nothing to say that science can't do the same up against LeCleur. We've never seen science up in a top drive. We've never seen what he's capable of up against the likes of the Stappling is absolute best now. You know, Hamilton, almost an equal car. Now Lecler. You know, these drivers are the Crem de la Crem of Formula One at the moment. And it's fantastic. The Scyx gets that, like Sharks to take that step into the red car,

the car that we've all dreamed of as a kid. You know, you'd be silly to say that you can't look at that with a little bit of love and nostalgia in you. It's a fantastic seat. And I'm realistically not surprised that Sikes got the move. It's between Ricardo and Sainz. I think Giavanazzi probably is not going to be ready for that Ferrari drive. It'll be silly to bring back Rikingen with where he is,

in its career. It'd be a one-off, one-year kind of thing. And their junior team is not ready. It's just not that capability. And I don't think they have the same relationship with Haas to bring one of those drivers now. And we know that Grojean isn't good enough. And Magnuson had his chance at McLean. So yeah, it's between Sites and Ricardo. Science gets the call. He's going to second thing. This is his one shot, I think, to do something big. I think he can achieve something big. And I think Karin's right in saying, you'd be silly to think that he's going to want to play second fiddle to Charlotte Clerk. This is that chance to win a championship, to put his name in the history of Formula One.

So I think he's going to make himself settle in as soon as possible for his own sake. I have to say from from Seines' perspective, obviously that Red Bull seat never quite materialised for him. And I think he was fairly unlucky that it didn't. And I'm just from his perspective, I'm glad that it's worked out in the end, even though he had to kind of move around the blocks in order to eventually get to that top seat. so I'm excited to see what he can do. Harry, to finish off sort of the transfer market

and how that's unfolded over the last week, Daniel Ricardo moving to McLaren, you described it as a sort of a sideways move, which I think is fair in terms of where their current performance is, but you like where McLaren are going. Do you think Ricardo and McLaren can form a pretty potent combination? Yeah, I mean, I think they can. If we look at McLaren's progress over the past year or so,

and we haven't seen what they can actually do in 2020 yet, so that's maybe difficult to judge. But compared to Renault, I don't know, if you just get the feeling that they are on the right trajectory, they're going in the right direction. They've got the right people lined up. And we've spoken about, you know, they're getting the Mercedes engine in, or next year.

Yeah, I just think if I was Ricardo and I'd been comparing Renault and McLaren as a future prospect, McLaren just looked like the more positive, more positive option. And it's not to say that it's the right one, but at the moment I would say it's definitely the more hopeful of the two. Karun, are you on that same wavelength, considering where McLaren were just a couple of years ago, not a lot quicker than Williams?

And obviously they've now established themselves as the best in the midfield. Do you see them continuing that? Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, McLaren, they've got their house in order, they've restructured, they've reorganized. They've got Andreas Seidel now steering the ship. Zach Brown's taken a step back from day-to-day stuff to go back to running the bigger organization,

which is what he does best. You know, he's bringing his sponsorship, he's doing the deals. That's what Zach does best, and that's what he's done for many years. And Seidel was very, very highly regarded, first at PMW and then at Porsche from everyone I've spoken to. So I think they've got the right bosses now. Mercedes engines coming, new wind tunnel coming in 2022. I think they've definitely on the up.

Yeah, no question about it. And if I was McLaren, for them to sign Daniel as soon as they lost Carlos was the obvious thing to do. You know, it's slightly opportunistic as well. You'd have to say, but they didn't hang about. You know, Zach wanted to sign Daniel before he went to Reno. They were pushing to sign Daniel when he was at Red Bull. And he didn't get him. Daniel chose to go to Reno at that time. And, you know, typical of Zach, he didn't give up.

And when the, you know, opportunity opened up, he was straight in there. Yeah, absolutely. Good times potentially ahead, like you say, with the wind tunnel and the Merck power units coming in. And, you know, they've currently got a driver who's proven to be a race winner multiple times over. And someone who we haven't quite seen it yet, but had nearly 50 junior wins prior to coming into where. one. So it's an exciting time ahead for McLaren quite possibly. I wanted to switch gears here and talk about Williams. Of course, you've got a longstanding relationship with the team, driven some of their best cars over the years, no jealousy whatsoever. And yeah, it's going to be interesting to see where they go now. And you could argue 2019, it couldn't really have gone much

worse. It's a big question and arguably if it's an easy one, they would have already answered it themselves. But where do they go from here? How do they turn it around, do you think? I think you've given the answer to the question, haven't you? It's quite possibly. I mean, at the end of the day, there's such a gulf between the top three teams and the midfield. And I think the first thing Williams have got to do is get themselves back in their midfield fight. You know, they've got to take a little bit of inspiration from McLaren. As you said, in, you know, in 2018, there were times where Alonzo was being outqualified

by Syrockin and Stroll. Now, no disrespect to those two guys, but they're not Fernando Alonzo. So that clearly showed. I think there were times where Williams was quicker than McLaren, and McLaren were the slow scar in 2018 on occasion. But they turned it round. So turnarounds are still possible in Formula One. Not easily.

You know, by no means is that an easy thing to do, but it's still possible. But, you know, Williams had to dig deep and, you know, McLaren had to fundamentally change the concept of the arrow on their car for 2019. They realized it hit a stumbling block in 18, which was no, you know, there was no point investing further money and time into fixing. So they just thought, forget it. We're just going to focus on 19 and they turn it around. and, you know, that's, I think Williams need to, need to come out of the blocks with something more radical, you know, and take a bigger leap, obviously, to bridge that cap. Because there was still a gulf between them at the 10th team and even the 9th best team, right, last year. So they first got to close that out, Alp.

And I think at the end of the day, they've got the Mercedes power unit. So you know the engine's not the problem. in which case it's got to be Aero and packaging. Yeah, and I think obviously we can't read too much into 2020 in the very limited time that they've spent on track but at least getting the car there on

time and there did appear to be indications that they were, even if they were still the 10th team which I think is going to be likely. It appears as if that gap is going to be at least somewhat more respectable. So hope for the best for them.

A lot of emphasis has been towards sort of the budget cap and that coming in. Do you think that could spark that turnaround? Do you think it's a case of survival almost until then? No, I think, you know, at the end of the day, performance is performance. And the budget cap really is going to affect the top three teams much more than anybody else. You know, if you look at the number, they've talked about, 100145 million US. plus plus, you know, the exceptions to the cap, that still means that most of the grid, I'd say maybe Renault and McLaren in the midfield are above it, but all the others are

probably any way below the budget cap or around the budget cap, right? So realistically, it's only going to affect, you know, it's going to have a major effect on the top three teams. and one of the effects could be that the top three teams have to start laying off people and downsize their numbers, in which case, it could be opportunistic for the lower teams, you know, to grab those people because they will come with knowledge from a top team. Yeah, absolutely. Harry, what do you think about Williams and where they might be heading and what they have to do in order to at least start heading in the right direction? I'd have to agree with Karun on the big leap.

We saw it with McLaren at the end of 2018. It's going to need something more radical. And I mean, I don't know anything about the performance of the Williams this year. But from the outside, it still looks pretty similar to what they had last year. So I imagine it was, they've been fixing the problems just as we said, to make up the gap to the ninth team. So yeah, it's going to be a tricky one. budget cap, it is more of the case of bringing the top teams down rather than bringing the bottom teams up, if that makes sense. So yeah, they've got to sort it out and not necessarily rely on

the budget cap. It may help them financially, or at least to survive, but performance-wise, I don't think it will matter too much. And Sam, what are your thoughts on that one? Well, I generally don't think that the budget cap is going to do too much for Williams. I think that realistically they are spending what they need to spend and they're not outrageously above what that limit is. I think they're spending the same amount around what those kind of stronger big field teams are spending. I think money is not really going to be the issue massively for Williams in terms of overspending. I think what we've seen from an outsider's point of view, and maybe Karin can comment on this, but is more an attitude change within the team. We regularly

see that Williams will have a poor start to the season again and they'll get seven or eight races in and there is no positive change to that. They're not getting any closer to the scenes in front. And instead of deciding and making that crucial decision to go, you know what, we know the regulations for next year, let's stop with this car. We should just race this car, save money on the development and focus everything for a very long time into the aerow, the package, how we can maximize the power delivery. You know, how can we make the tyres activate better?

Because we saw half struggling with that last season. What can we do to maximize all these individual parts? And I think we've seen so many times them going, we're going to, we're going to keep developing the car to the end of the season. We're going to get to at least three or four races from the end. And we're going to try and push. We're going to try and make those games. And I know that, you know, a race for them is almost like a test session at the moment with how far back they are. But maximize that. You need to see that as an advantage.

It's something that other teams can't do. You can't go any further back. The only thing that you can lose on this situation is your spotting Formula One shooting and not having the finances given to you. And currently they've got that. So I think they need to change what they're doing, change their way of thinking and have a total reset. Otherwise, a team like Williams, which is such a historic and brilliant team, could be so far down the grid for such a long time. And that would be such a sad sight. Yeah. When I prefaced this, I forgot to mention, of course, they have recently acquired Simon Roberts, so that they are starting to make moves in order to improve. This is probably a question

that's been asked quite a lot. Obviously, the team is very proud of its independence. and its heritage. In terms of the Williams model, Karin, do you think that they need to adjust that? Or do you think it's a case of they just need to work in order to try and make that work in this modern F1? It's a really tricky one, isn't it? And I think, to be honest, the model might have to change.

You know, if you look at the way that everyone is now operating, they're all aligned to the big teams, apart from, you know, there's McLaren and Williams, really, you know, they're sort of on their own. Everyone else has got some sort of technical partnership or alignment or cross-ownership in Doros' case. So, yeah, I think there's a real risk that Williams and McLaren are going to be slightly left on their own. Now, McLaren, obviously they've got the Bahraini shareholders and owners who have got deeper pockets than than the people who own Williams. And therefore, I think there's, and the car, you know, the road car company has been an

amazing success story, really, for a company that's relatively young to be operating in the black in such a short space of time. So McLaren have done well from a financial standpoint to secure their future and to make sure that they're in a position to, you know, to operate independently and not aligned. And I think Williams will perhaps have to think about that. You know, it's a question really of now who do you align with and how much do you align with them? I think that's the big question, Mark, because, you know, Mercedes has only got Aston effectively as their partner team. You know, I guess Renault now are losing McLeodin as a customer.

Could they be an option to have a partner team, partnership with? Ferrari have already got two, so I can't see them doing any more. Maybe Red Bull. Maybe you go back to having Williams Honda like they had in the 80s and buddy up a bit more with Red Bull, but I'm not sure that's really the Red Bull way of doing things. You know, Christian Horner's very publicly talked about the fact he'd be happy to sell the year-old cars to other teams.

And, you know, so he's obviously open to the idea of doing it that way, which is slightly different to some of the other collaborations. But I mean, I think it's something worth considering for sure. Yeah, and it almost circles back around to if there was an easy solution, they would have already done it. Just before we leave Williams, a question I just wanted to ask, Karun, is you've driven some of the best Williams cars that have been produced. Do you have a favourite one?

I think, I'd say emotionally driving Mansell's 92 car, Red 5, and I drove it, I've driven on several occasions, I've been very fortunate, but the best one was probably on British Grand Prix Sunday in 2017. I drove it on Sunday morning and Saturday evening, but when the crowd were coming in, the grandstands were packed and we did a few demo laps with it there. That was amazing. As a kid growing up, I think for anyone who grew up watching Formula 1 in the 90s, you know, you have that image of Nigel in Red 5, the crowd cheering him on at Silverston.

And it was amazing. I could, you know, I could nearly hear Murray Walker's voice in my head as I drove down to Hanger Street. It was, yeah, sensational. Yeah, I can imagine. And just on the FWO8C that you raced at Monaco, I believe, how was that? Yeah, I mean, it was only a demo. It wasn't a race. It was great fun.

I didn't think I'd get another chance to go back to Monaco, to be honest, after my single-seater career switched over to sports cars. But to go back to Monaco, which is one of my favorite tracks in racing, was mega to drive a car that won the Monaco Grand Prix as well in 83, was really special. I mean, the Monaco Historic looks like it's going to be back on the calendar in 21. They've already announced that. So fingers crossed, we can go back there with something.

Yeah, absolutely. So moving on to the next thing, we've got a few questions. We asked some of our towards followers, whether they wanted to ask any questions, and we've got some good ones that have come in. Jack Chambers is asking, and it's related to the previous discussion, actually, this new era of Formula One, is there one team that stands out to you as someone, as a team that might come good? in which you mean the new era coming up?

Yes, yeah. I'd be interested to see what Red Bull Honda come up with, if I'm honest. I think, you know, anytime there's a sweeping change to the chassis regulations, you've got to look at what Adrian Newey and Rob Marshall and his team of people can come up with, Pierre Bashe as well. You know, he's got some very, very good technical minds there. And then when it comes to setting the cars up and running them on track, people like Paul Monaghan who've been at McLaren and Red Bull now for all the good years,

they know how to get the best out of a package, I think. So I'll be interested to see what they come up with. Absolutely. Harry, is there a team for you that stands out as someone who might come good? Red Bull would have been my best as well. I mean, I think the only exception maybe may have been 26. I don't think they came out of the box punching too much then, but even then they still developed that car significantly.

Yeah, so, and you never underestimate Adrian Ui, only do that actual peril. So especially with the way Honda are going, that could be a really, really potent combination by the time we get to 2022. Yeah, and I mean, theoretically, even though the budget cap is going to affect all the top three teams, you'd imagine that Red Bull is the one that it's going to affect the least.

out of those three. Sam, have you got a team in mind for that question? Well, as everyone has said, Rebel is the obvious answer. But if I were to stray away from that train of thought, I think McLaren with their trajectory that they're wrong, with the fact they've got Norris lined up, who's now obviously got a deep link to the Segeys. They've got the sameis engines coming in with Sid and Zach Lee and the team. Honestly, they look like a team to really take it to the top guys at the moment. And I think if they can take their time with their new wind tunnel and their new development and the aeropackage they're creating, and push that into the new regulations in that new era of Formula One that we're going to see.

I really think that we could see a proper comeback from McLaren. I'm really excited by their line up. Engineering-wise, they've got a brilliant team behind them. I wouldn't be surprised to see them dicing it up there with Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, quite comfortable within the next two to three years. Very good. The next question comes from Daniel. Karim, what was driving the HRT like in 2010?

10. Well, people often ask me that, actually. To be honest, it was, we managed to get quite a good balance on the car. It just lacked downforce. It just didn't have the front downforce that, you know, mainly the front downforce, but overall downfalls, of course, that we should have had. To me, it's at, you know, when finally, you know, one day I might get around to write a book about it. It's what, it's one of those real what ifs, I think, that project. You know, we We had some great people involved. If you look at the people in that engineering office, so many of them have gone on to Mercedes or Ferrari or Porsche LMP1

or other top programs and won races and championships. And it all fell apart when the commercial deal between the Spanish owners and Dallara collapsed. Because Dallara had designed a car with another 60 points of downforce. The car that we ended up racing was one that was meant to go to a hotel in Murcia for a launch, for a media launch, and that was it. It was never meant to go on the racetrack. And in the end, because, you know, from the financial side, things didn't work out for them and the relationship broke down. We never got the update. And, you know, 60 points of downforce would have been two and a half seconds of just pure lap time.

We would have been able to switch the tires on better. And straight away, it would have brought. us, you know, into Tororoosa territory, really. So I think the, you know, the bones, the initial bones of the deal were good, but they, it just didn't work out because of the lack of money. Yeah. And just as a follow-up to that, see, that was when you were just coming into Formula One as well. Was there a great deal of mixed emotions in terms of excitement to make the grid and at the same time, obviously with the car under you, very difficult to make an impact in the races? Yeah, exactly. You know, you know, both Bruno and I, we'd gone from being frontrunners in GP2, you know, fighting for podiums and winning races and things like that to suddenly being at the back of the grid.

And but on the flip side, as you say, in some sense, it's a culmination of a tree. You know, I still, I still remember, you know, a couple of big moments from there, you know, getting to the, I remember going to the paddock in Bahrain and for the first race we'd, you know, I still, I still remember going to the paddock in Bahrain and the first race we'd, you know, Ken and on the Thursday, the first driver who came and shook my hand was Michael Schumacher. And I had a poster of Michael on the wall in my bedroom. You know, he was my hero. And the fact that he came and said hello and spent a few minutes talking to me and asking me where was from in my background and, you know, just being nice. And I thought, that's amazing. You know, I'm a nobody. He's a seven-time world champion making a comeback into Formula One.

He was the biggest news story that weekend. because, you know, he was with the team that had won the previous few years championship, etc., etc. So, you know, that was still, it was a mega memory that I'll carry with me. And also, I think, you know, that the moment when you sit on the grid and all the mechanics and engineers, everyone clears away, and you go off at a parade lap and you think, I've made it, I'm on the grid with Alonzo and Michael and Lewis and all these people that you saw being successful in F1 on television, you know, I allowed myself a second or two to take the moment in because I think it's, I thought it was important to do that.

You know, you're obviously very focused on your job and you're trying to do the best race, but I thought it was also important to take in those moments because you don't know how long it'll last. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's a good approach to have. The last question that we've got from Twitter is someone called Thomas who has asked, will two races at the time?

the same circuit, it seems fairly likely that that will happen. Do you think that will lead to a second boring race? Do you think there will be too much data and knowledge and understanding of pitch strategy to make an exciting race? No, I don't think so. I think, you know, that's the beauty of Formula One is that, you know, there are occasions where we think the race are going to be a complete snooze fest and they come alive. And, I mean, conversely, don't give it wrong.

I don't think every race is perfect. have races that look exciting on paper and turn out to be painfully dulled. But I think there's no clear-cut reason why the second one will be less exciting than the first. You could argue the opposite and say, let's say we do the first race and Mercedes blitz it. It gives the other teams an opportunity because it is, don't forget, it's diminishing returns up at the top. and the second weekend at the same track will give other teams, i.e. Ferrari and Red Bull, probably,

a chance to try and close that gap and to have learned some lessons, whereas for Mercedes to improve on being the best is harder to do with that diminution curve return. Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. Sam, would you agree with that? Or do you think it could lead to a second boring race? It's something we just don't know.

Sorry, I was just living my absolute effort, one fantasy through Kourang's words there when he was talking about that HRC season. Such an incredible story, one we've all dreamed of. In terms of the circuits, it's completely up in the air. We can come to a circuit year in, year out, and it can be Dulles Dishwater. You know, there are tracks that don't really seem to produce incredible racing, and the crowds tend to moan at them. Some of those being the likes of, you know, Catalan.

People see it as a test circuit only, and, you know, one in every seven or eight races is exciting, and then we go back to dull consecutive races. but you go to a race like Hockenheim or Silverstone or, you know, we go to Spielberg, Austria, and you think every race here is incredible. I could watch this race three times in a row and it would still be incredible. Honestly, it's such an unknown factor, I think, in Formula One, what can happen, that it's going to be exciting. You could get a puncture.

There could be a crash. There could be a safety car that wasn't in the previous race. A pit stop could go wrong. Your strategy could change because you've learned it in the last time. Honestly, anything can happen. You might have a wet race one weekend in a dry race the next. It could generally change so much one race to the other that as long as we're getting some racing and it's safe and we're ready to go, then I'm excited and good to watch it. And if it's two races, it's three races at the same circuit.

I'm happy. It's going to be exciting. It's Formula One. Bring it on. Yeah. And I think with the current outlook, it looks like it will be a few circuits where that's kind of enforced. I mean, just personally, I think two races at Austria would be brilliant. Harry, are you looking forward to the prospect of that?

Yeah, I mean, I think with Silverston now up in the air, Austria may be the only one that's definitely certain to have a double header. But yeah, I echo all the points that have already been made. There's so many variables in F1 that you can't guarantee. The teams all have extra data that they wouldn't necessarily have going into the second race. But that means nothing. You can have all the data in the world, but one spanner gets thrown in the works and it all goes out the window. So, no, I think there's every chance the second race could be just as exciting as the first, or just as dull, just to re-emphasise.

Yeah, sure. Lastly, today, I thought we just round off with, and I know you've told me Harry and Sam that I'm not allowed to call it this, but as a pun on late breaking, I am calling it eight breaking. Eight questions for you, Karin. And the answers to all of them are people that you drove against on the 2020. grid. Do you want to go ahead with that? Sure. I'll take a punt.

All right. Here we go. So, question one. Who was the oldest driver you raced against on that 2010 grid? Was it Michael? It was Michael, yeah. I wasn't too sure about Pedro de la Rosa when I was looking up for answer, but yes, it is Michael.

Question two, who was the youngest driver you raced against on that 2010 grid? Oh, that's a good one. Seb? Was Seb the youngest that year? He was close. It was actually Jaime Aldousari. Oh, Jaime Atoroso was in there, wasn't he? He's literally only just turned 30, unbelievably, which seems crazy. Question three, which driver secured their first pole position in 2010?

That's a good one. 2010. Well, it was quite an open season, wasn't it? There's lots of teams. So we're up there. Here's a hint for you, Karam. They never converting it into a successful race. Oh. And they never really had another successful high-end finish again in Formula One after that. Oh.

Oh, you've thrown me now because that wasn't the one I was thinking of. Uh, I don't know. I would follow your gut over mine. I genuinely can't remember. Go on. Nika Holcomberg. Oh, interlagos. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. All right. Fourth question. It's amazing how little you've focused on other people. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. I'll probably do better. Yeah, we'll have to get you back on at a do more recent season.

Yeah. Well, or older season. Nineties is really my area of specialty. Yeah. Go on. Which driver was on pole for your first race? In Bahrain. In Bahrain?

It was Sebastian? It was a Philippi? Yeah, Sebastian. Yeah, that's it. And the exhaust crack, and I think Fernando won the race, wasn't it? That's right. Question five. Which driver led the championship in the most races that season with six?

Mark Weber It was Mark Weber, yeah Yep Oh, that knowledge Supreme Yeah Question six Which driver retired

The most times In that season Oh It was probably the Marussia Virgin cars Isn't it They had all sorts They had a fuel tank issues

And they had all sorts So I don't know Lucas I think one of the Marishas was one off But it was actually It was actually Bruno

Bruno Center Oh right Oh, there you go. Question seven, this one's a bit difficult to say. Which driver is their country's only representative in F1 in that 2010 season? So one driver who is their country's only representative. You mean the only one in history to have made it from their country? Yeah, so like, like the old Baumgartner being the only Hungarian driver.

Yeah, yeah. Well, Vitaly, was that? Petrov. It was Robert Kubitsa, so the only Polish driver. Of course. Well, okay, yeah, I suppose. So, So So So Tirokin came after. Yeah, it might be.

I thought it was the first in 2010. Yeah, probably. I mean, extra points. Extra points for that, because you've absolutely smashed it. You're definitely right. Yeah. Yeah, because he, Vitali was before. Kifiat, wasn't he?

Yeah, yeah. So that's why I thought he was, yeah, okay. I had a feeling the way in which that question was said by, might be difficult. The last question, which driver had the most podiums in 2010 without winning a race? Oh, that was Robert.

It was actually Felipe Massa. I think Kibitsa was... Did he not win? Oh, that was the Hockenheim. He should have done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Well, there you go.

Clearly, I don't remember a bunch of 2010. I should watch a season review. Too focused on the racing there, I think, Karen. Yeah, yeah, obviously. Yeah, it wasn't taking much attention. Liseo, I'll bring you back and do 96. Yeah, yeah. Are they better off doing anything in the 90s,

maybe? Fair enough. Anyway, very good effort. And that's all from us today. So, I mean, Sam, Harry, obviously, thank you for joining as ever. And, Corin, thank you so much for stopping by and taking part of the conference tonight.

Absolutely pleasure, guys. And yeah, have a good day. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Until next time, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.