The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Ferrari in turmoil! | 2020 Belgian GP Review | Episode 70

Episode Date: August 30, 2020

Another win for Lewis Hamilton at the Belgian GP, a great result for Renault, and a horrific weekend for Ferrari - the boys break down all the talking points from Round 7.Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Oh, and a very warm welcome to the late breaking Formula One podcast and our review of the 2020 Belgian Grand Prix, a race in which Lewis Hamilton won for the fifth time in 2020 and extended his championship lead to 47 points over Max Verstappen in 6. second. But before we go any further, we have to draw attention to something here, which is the

greatest achievement of the day, and that is not Lewis Hamilton's victory. As many of you know, we've been putting in bold predictions for a very long time on this channel in videos, in podcasts, articles. We've done it for not far off four years now. And until today, Mr. Harry Ead has never got one right. And on Thursday, he predicted that Daniel Ricardo would be in the top five at the end of the Grand Prix, and he went one better than that. He finished P4 today. Harry, congratulations.

Oh, thank you. This is literally the happiest moment of my career. I don't think I'll ever top this. And just thank you, Danny Rick. You're a beautiful human being. And just to say, I'm sorry, Sam, because you actually got one right as well, but it's been completely overshadowed.

Yeah, I mean, I don't mind. bit like Lewis Hamilton here, where I've got multiple titles to this, but Harry deserves, it's like Pastor Maldonado getting a Spanish win. Well done, mate. I'm so happy for you, and we will resume with normality next week. But congratulations, Mr. Reed. It's about time that you've got it across the line. Wow. We actually tried to be nice to you, Harry, and you still get compared to Pastor Maldonardo. Thanks, guys. I mean, I wouldn't expect anything best, but thanks, thanks all the same. And what have we started? Maybe you'll, you'll just just get them all right from now on.

We'll have to wait and see on that. But focusing on today's race, Ferrari, we're going to be focusing on them. I mean, what word do you want to use? Dreadful, diabolical, take your pick, P-13 and P-14 in the race. We'll be looking at the race out front as well. Of course, Lewis Hamilton taking a relatively comfortable victory ahead of his teammate and Max Verstappen in third. And whether Alex Albin has had a better race or not, he ended up finishing P6 after

the qualifying P5 on Saturday will be reviewing his race. But first of all, those red cars, those red cars not doing too well at all. After qualifying P13 and P14, they finished in exactly the same positions, although the drivers did switch around. Sebastian Vettel P13 on a one stop. Leclair tried a two-stop. Didn't really work. He finished in P-14.

Sam, what did you make of their performance out there? I mean, Shambolic? I mean, yeah, Shambolic is. a great work for it. Everything about Ferrari is ridiculous at the moment. I don't think I've seen a team implode this quickly in so long. It shows you how much that they were probably breaking the rules actually last season if they've gone from being the fastest car in a straight line and fighting for a possible world title to now not be able to qualify in Q3. Fair play to Vessel for having a fight with Lecler. That was fun to watch. The clerk got off to a blinding start and it all just kind

of went wrong again very quickly, dropping back down quite quickly. He obviously had that hydraulic issue that meant they had to bring him in again, just to top it up. He may not have had to have stopped twice otherwise. But he did get that three bits of under the safety car. So, again, not really the end of the world. I don't really know what to say about it other than the fact it was bloody awful. I mean, we'll get into it later on, but my moment of the race has very much a lot to do with Ferrari. They were not the leading Ferrari powered car, which says everything you need to know about how bad

Ferrari, I don't know. It's not just the engine that's taking them down. The drivers are not clearly performing to their top level. The chassis clearly isn't built how it needs to be. Aerodynamically, it's not going well at all. And it's all just, you can tell that Bethel doesn't care anymore. And LeCler is so frustrated with everything that's going on. And the

Ferrari strategists over the bloody over the bloody radio, you know, are we all strategy B or certainly C? You know, it says LeCler. You know, they're very different. They're very different. What are we going for? We're just looking over both at the moment. We'll get back to you. Right. Great. cheers and then they bring him in to the pit lane top of his hydraulics why he brought me in again

no one else has come again uh we'll tell you later just just drive the car please like what is going on what is Vettles screaming at them don't even think me about bloody pitting he used to much worse swear um but you know don't even talk to me about the strategy because you don't know what you're doing it's a embarrassment it's a shambles and if they had pitting Vettel there's every chance that they could have ending up finishing 13th or 16 or something like that which going bloody terrible. It's an embarrassment. And I'm so, so, so devastated for the fans that won't be there at Monza and Miguelo in the next two weeks, because if anything, it's lucky they don't get to see this absolutely embarrassment, because I think it's going to be even worse for Ferrari

over the next two weeks. I'm shocked. Yeah, you raised a good point there. That would be a strange atmosphere at Monza with all the Ferrari fans there. And considering what they were able to do this race, and the track characteristics, it's not going to be much better next time out. I think we were expecting the Ferraris to struggle, considering their power unit issues. But, Harry, did you expect them to struggle by this much? No, I really didn't. And, yeah, it's a strange one.

It's almost like they've got even work. Because, you know, if you think of Austria, that's still a pretty power-dependent track. There's not many corners to it and a lot of straits. But, yeah, there's almost got. worse from there and I don't know whether they were you know I know Lecler got a podium but um yeah it's just a strange one and look no one is happy about COVID-19 apart from matia Bonotto because he doesn't have to go to Monza next week and face any Italian fan um yeah that that that would just be

ugly so I think for to say as you spare their blushes a bit they'll be glad that there's no no no trophium on to next week but that yeah that's going to be a bloodbath as well. So I would be, I think they might just turn up with no rear wing. That might just be the only option. Don't need any downforce. Because that engine is, it's weird because they're not even the best of the Ferrari powered engines.

So there's, clearly, they must have a draggy car as well. So, yeah, absolutely no good. Where do they go from here? Because next year is going to be the same effectively. So, yeah, it's just so. time for Ferrari. Yeah, and ultimately, if you look at the four power units on display right now, the Mercedes, the Honda and the Renault, even though the Mercedes did have its advantage a few years back,

it does seem as if those three are on pretty much the same level. And if anything, you know, look at the power of the Renault in the first sector. You can even argue that Renault is up there as the best, but there really isn't much to choose between those three. And Ferrari are really lagging behind in that respect. you know, questions of legality are going to continue on and how much of an impact that had. But if you're just looking at where they were last year and where they are this year in comparison to the other power units, it's very difficult to come to any other conclusion that they have lost a lot because of the agreement that they've made with the FIA.

And you touched on this, Harry, it's that that's, you know, leave that to one side. Belgium, we were expecting the Ferrari power unit to be exposed. even at tracks like Barcelona it is somewhat exposed but when you've got a circuit like spa where two of the three sectors are essentially full throttle it was always going to be the case that the Ferraris and the Hass and the Alpha Romeo's were going to struggle here

but leave that to one side because we knew that was going to be the case and whilst the Mercedes and the Ferrari powered units cars and put Honda and Renault in that as well you can compare them you can't compare them race to race as such because how much the power unit matters is going to change each race. But between the same cars, the Hasse and the Alpha Rameos and the Ferraris, they've all got the same power unit.

You can make those comparisons, which has really surprised me as to how bad Ferrari was. Let's say, for example, the Mercedes had the worst power unit on the grid. You wouldn't expect Mercedes to be on the same pace as racing point, and you wouldn't expect Mercedes to be on the same pace as the Williams. But that's essentially what Ferrari are doing. Ferrari were amongst the top few teams last season, the top three, and now they're on the same pace, at least at Belgium, as Hass and Alpha Romeo.

Both Ferrari's lost to Kimi Reichenen and LeClaire just about got Romain-Groja on that two-stop strategy. There was not much to choose between them and the Haas guys. So clearly, they're on the same power unit, and yet they're on the same pace. You wouldn't expect, by the same token, you wouldn't expect Red Bull to be, on the same pace as Alpha Tauri. You wouldn't expect, you might expect Renno and McLaren to be on the same pace because they've got a similar car,

but I think the Mercedes and Racing Point and Williams comparison is the best one of the lot. There's more at play here than just the power unit. If it was just the power unit, Ferrari would still have been quite comfortably clear of the other two teams, and they weren't. So there are serious questions they have to ask, agree with you about the shambles

in terms of the strategy and Monza. Fortunately, yeah, fortunately there aren't going to be any fans there because that would be an uneasy atmosphere for Bonotto and indeed the entire team. I mean, I don't even know what more you can say about that, to be honest. No points whatsoever. Leclair loses P4 in the championship. Do you think, Sam, that they just have to hold on for Mugello? Do you think they just have to know exactly what's going to happen next week?

It's not going to be pretty, but they just have to get on with it. I think that Ferrari needs to abandon the season. I mean, you can't, obviously. you've got to finish the races, but if they're not already chucking every resource possible into developing the new era of Formula One car, they've already failed. That's already a disaster

for Ferrari there as it is. They now need to forget, I think, the next two, three races. I don't care if you're going to be in Italy and your Ferrari. I don't care if it's your 1000th race. I don't care what it means to you emotionally. You're going to be bad. It's going to be bad. Not only are both

these tracks, incredible power tracks, right? Yeah, Mons are the Templar Speed, making a struggle. Jello, it hasn't got as much straight line capacity as Monsa or Spar does, but it's incredibly hard to follow. And it's very much like Silverstone in the sense that it is a very much out and out, foot to the floor, go for it, track. And it's hard to make an overtake there.

And I think they're going to really struggle as it is. So they need to get something changed. They need to unlock some more power. They need to sort that chassis out, bringing some upgrades. And that's if they're not going to focus on the future. and it needs to be turned around now because I feel like this could possibly be the worst points all for a Ferrari

that we've seen in a long, long time. And I feel like the only reason they've got their hegs above the water a little bit in that points table is where Charlotte Clurz managed to drag that car up a little bit more than we all thought he would. Two podiums in a car that actually is finishing 13th and 14th in a race

is pretty impressive, if you're from honest, shows you how good he's done this season. I don't know what to say about them. I am honestly gobsmacked. for what's going on with Ferrari. And the power unit deficit is completely new for 2020, but strategic, being behind strategically, that's not new for 2020.

That's been the case for the last few years. Harry, would you agree that because they had a car that was capable of fighting at the front, and even though those strategy calls weren't always perfect, do you think that how good that car was sort of masked those strategic errors? yeah I think yeah definitely again today Seb is trying to do the strategy

of the team and also drive the car and he doesn't need to do that and you know maybe it's now more noticeable because Ferrari is falling apart the scenes and yeah because they had the fastest car they've never been the slickest you know in this at least in this hybrid era

they're never in the slickest a strategy call it's not compared to Red Bull and Mercedes and yeah I think now they're just being highlighted how bad they are in strategy I mean I know they had to bring Leclerion for the you know to top up the whatever it was I thought they were just putting more power into the car somehow but um evidently but like you know we'll explain it after the race and everyone could see that's what they're doing because there's a guy at the side of the car pumping in whatever it is into the car so it's not really a secret just tell you driver, be clear with you up front with your driver in the first place. And that's why, you know,

LeClaire is where Seb was when he first started and is questioning things perhaps too late, whereas Vettel's been there for seasons of bad strategy causes and now questioning things before they even happen. Yeah, so, you know, we've, we've said, Seb's made mistakes and not won titles in the, in the past for Ferrari, but I think a lot of it could bore down to the fact that Ferrari could never make the most of a fast car. And I think we're seeing why this season, because their strategy team is just diabolical. It's so bad.

It's like you think how good they were at strategy back in the day, you know, with Schumacher and Ross Braun, and they were, no one could beat them on strategy. And now they're just a shambles. And it's embarrassing, really. Yeah, I mean, you think back to races like Hungary, in 97 when Schumacher came into the pits once more and put forward some incredible qualifying laps to win that race. It seems as if those days of strategic know-how within the team are just

completely gone and that knowledge has just not been passed down throughout the generations. And yeah, when you're at the front and you have such a car as Ferrari have had in the last few years and a power unit as they've had in the last few years, you can get away with it occasionally where your strategy isn't on point. And if there's no real, there's no capacity to mess, to mess up the strategy. They can win races. But when you're in a position like Ferrari are in,

where they are in a six-team, seven-team battle for points, you can't afford to be behind. And now I think it is being highlighted more than it was in the days when they were fighting for a championship. And this is why I think that they need to sort the power unit out first and foremost, but it is not 100% of the answer. They weren't winning championships when they had an incredible power unit, and there was a reason behind that.

And even if they sought out these power units for 2022, which there is a reasonable chance that they do that, considering the resources they have behind them, that's not going to fix it by itself. They also need to make personnel changes. They need to make cultural changes because they are getting, you know, they are getting absolutely cleaned up by everyone else in the strategy department. If you look at just this weekend alone, qualifying was a bit of a mess, you know, in terms of slipstream, not having slipstream the toe. They didn't really know what was going on. And Kuran Chandok brought up this point in when he was speaking during qualifying. He said this should have been decided on Friday, let alone during the qualifying session. So I completely agree with him on that.

They should have sorted that out very quickly. In the race, Shao LaClaar had two pit stops that completely. mind for, I think, 15 seconds. One 10 second stop and one five second stop. That's not going to get it done. Compare that to what Red Bull did at the Spanish Grand Prix. I think they did four pit stops in about eight seconds. Obviously, you're going to lose time there.

And Charlotte-Clau lost a couple of positions, even though he had the advantage of being the first guy in to pit when the safety car came out. So they completely threw that away by not being ready. And it's just simple communication. that hydraulic issue that he had where he had to come into the pits for a second time, it was very simple to just even briefly explain that over the radio. They didn't need to go into depth. They could just say, look, we needed to bring you in to do this.

We'll explain more after the race. And that would have been absolutely fine. Leaving your drivers completely in the dark is in the best interest of absolutely no one. Ferrari needs to change. And that goes beyond the power unit. Well, I'm not sure Sebastian Vessel or Shao LeClau will be in line for driver of the day, but there are quite a few good contenders out there. Sam, who are you picking for driver of the day? Between three for me today. It's between the race winner Lewis Hamilton, who was once again

completely dominant, pretty much flawless, other than the one mistake we saw where he cut the last corner due to a lockup on those doggie old tyres. The guy had bucket loads of pace over his teammate. The gap, I think, finished at about eight seconds back to Bottas. No real risk, other than the very first corner of the first lap of him losing that lead. It was a cruise for Hamilton after that point, I think. Botas and he could do more. You can see he was almost angry, I think, getting out the car when he realized what it meant to lose another race to Hamilton. After that, for me, Ricardo, brilliant job, helped by Mr. Harry Ede's bold prediction. But the man was brilliant. He really enjoyed himself.

And when Ricardo was enjoying himself in a car, it shows. It's great fun to watch. He's got great pace. Finishing forth in that Renault was brilliant. Got past Albon and comfortably beat him as well. Realistically, I know that they only finish about three seconds apart, Ricardo of Vastappen, but Vastappen was about 15 seconds in front of Ricardo at one point. So he did well, I think, to keep the car there.

And then after that, Ghazley, the only person having him in Perez not to stop under the safety car that came out when Russell and Jim. Van Ackzi had that what looked like it killed by an awful axiom. And he made it work. He got himself back up to the place that he was before the safety car came out. He was comfortable there as well. He drove the absolute tires off that Alpha Tauri. I'm going to give it to Hamilton just because of how dominant he was around a track

where it's so easy to make a move if you're in the right place. And he showed how much better he was in the same machinery. But both Ricardo and Gassi were absolutely brilliant as well today. Harry, what do you reckon? Danny Ricardo, love him, best driver ever in the world, move on.

I know, I will give it to Danny Rick for obvious reasons, but as I mentioned, Gassley, another notable one, as is Hamilton. Yeah, I think they're probably those top three

were the best drivers today, to be honest. But any of them, are worthy winners of driver of the day. Yeah, I'll throw two more names into the mix. I think Lando Norris did a very good job. Very similar to Daniel Ricardo. He seemed to manage that second stint much better than the cars around him. And it didn't seem as if the McLaren was, for the most part,

on the same pace as the Renault. Yeah, he finished just behind Esteban Okon and Alex Albin in fifth and sixth. So I think Norris did a very good job. The other driver, I'd like to, at least mentioned is Kimi Reichenen. He was the lead Ferrari powered runner, which was still only P12, but he likes Spar, and that was very evident from what he was able to produce. He was never really under threat from the Ferraris behind, and he kept Kavilla in check for most of the Grand Prix as well. I think he only finished about a second or two behind him in the end. But for me, it is between two.

It's either Ricardo or Ghazly. I'll mix it up and give it to Ghazley. For Ghazly's strategy to work, he needed either no safety car or a late safety car after everyone else had come into the pits. What he got was the complete opposite to what his strategy needed. And that was an early pit stop where all of the soft and medium runners can take advantage of it. And himself on the hard tires, couldn't. So he was pretty much, apart from Perez, the only guy who had to pit under green flag conditions and everyone else was able to pit under the safety car. Yet he still managed to make it work and he ended up finishing P8 and he was only a few seconds behind that Ocon, Alban-Norris battle at the end of the race.

So he really did well on those hard tires in the first stint. I think he would have been definitely in that fight, potentially P5 at the end of the race, if the safety car had been better timed for him. But he made it work. And worst driver of the day, Sam, who got? I don't know. I don't know. No, worst driver.

You can tell. Couldn't agree more. I don't know. Oh, I don't like to knock him down again and again. But what Bottas could do more? I thought Albon was not ideal either again. But yeah, Bottas for me, he just needs to do more. I'll go into it because I feel really bad.

It's always the same stuff that we've said. But that's proven to me that maybe, you know, that's it. That is, he's now not good enough to be fighting in that top seat anymore after another major loss and having 50 points away from the overall leader in points, his teammate in the same machinery. Yeah, more on that 50 point gap in a little bit.

Harry, who you going for? I am going to go for Antonio Giovanni. Because I think a weekend where, you know, the FTA sprint race this morning, the Premier team with both Ferrari Academy drivers had a one of the other Ferrari driver, Academy drivers, Kalamiloh is in contention for that title as well. He's just not performing in.

I saw, I think it was Nate Saunders, the F1 journalist. He said that the mistake he made was kind of like when you play Grand Turismo for the first time and you turn the traction control off. It was just a bit of a lame one. And obviously it was a huge accident. He took out, rustled in the process. But I know at that point he was ahead of Kimmy,

but I just think, I don't know, for me that may just be the turning point. Maybe next year he's not going to be in that seat because he hasn't finished a race at Spa so far. He's dropped it two years on the trot. So yeah, I'm going to put him down for worst drive of the day because he also took out Russell in the process. Yeah, and he does seem to be there in terms of qualifying against Reiklin, but in the race more often than not, it just, he hasn't quite got that race craft. and whether he just doesn't have it or he hasn't got it yet. I guess that's the point that's up before debate.

For me, the worst driver of the day, I'm going to pick out Danny Kavirat, actually, because what his teammate was able to do, and he just wasn't able to replicate it or even nearly replicate it, forcing Kaviat to, unfortunately, completely yield a position to Gassley because he had so much better tyres. And he started ahead of him. He started P11 to Gassley's P12. And if you consider, take out the Ferrari,

power cars and the Williams, who Kaviat should never be losing to based on the Ferrari power unit and how poor Williams are, there's no one else that he beat that he didn't necessarily have the right to beat. Everyone behind him was one of those Ferrari power cars or Latifie and Russell. So I was disappointed with him that he couldn't feature more in that top 10 battle. He started on fresh tires, which obviously the soft runners in the top 10 didn't get the advance. of and he just couldn't make anything of it and he's still sat on two points in the championship I believe with Gazley even with a tough race he still managed to extend his gap and he's got 18 so not looking very good for Kavilla. All right moment of the race sam what have you got for this one?

I actually if I can remember what I was going to say have I did have more than one I did And now you can't remember any. Well, that's my life, isn't it? Absolute memory of a. Absolute memory of a sieve. First one is that when the Ferrari's finished behind Kimi Reichen, they were not the lead, the lead Ferrari powered car, for me is shocking.

That, that for me kind of was a big slap in the face, that this Ferrari issue really is not going away. It's not, it's not just a momentary thing. they are in from the long haul and we are about to see them struggle big time. The other one that I was thinking of actually completely relates to what you were just saying, Ben, is that after this race, I think for me, that was the turning point that I don't think, Kivya, unless you sign that I'm unaware of, will be in that Alpha Tau receipt. I think they will have a new line-up.

At least one driver will be different come the start of the next season. And there was another one, but now I can't remember it. So if it comes to me, I'll let you know. But those two for me, after this race, were felt quite evident. Yeah, I'm sure we're going to discuss the Alpha Tauri seat at some point. But Yuki Sonoda's looking pretty handy in F2. And I am pretty sure that Honda will want a Japanese driver in that car. So, yeah, maybe the writings on the wall for Danny Kaviat there.

Harry, what was your moment at the race? the complete poo-housery of the F-1 director for after some, I don't know, something went wrong or a bad radio message. I think it may have been, was it the clerest thing, so slow on the streets, and then they cut to a slow-mo shot of Carlos Sines in the McLaren garage, looking like he was about to have a little cry. That is, that was my moment over the race.

The other one that stood out to me as well was at the near the start when Bata said, come and use this certain engine mode and they were like not against each other and he was like nope nope no i've not heard of that don't know what you're talking about la la la la la la la la la la i i'd got i'd got a clue i can just imagine the uh the meeting between the mercedes drivers and the strategist said that bot has actually got his fingers in his ears like no no no no cali valtrie valtri no no valtri clicking a bruise face on sunday exactly yeah it's very very That's true for me.

I'm going to go for, without sounding like this is a Ghazly fan channel, I'm going to go for another Ghazly moment here. And that was his overtake into O'Rouge. I thought it was, obviously it was a great move into O'Rourge and then Radion, just stand alone, just looking at the move itself. But there was something behind that move. I mean, considering the death of his close friend, Antoine Ubert, in the F2 race, just after Radion, of course.

course last year, to then come back a year later in hugely emotional circumstances, put together a great race and make an exceptional move into that corner of all corners. I just thought it was poetic. And yeah, I think that was an epic moment. Yeah, that was move of the race. And just a little, another nod to Gasley, who I think has been so impressive this season, actually. Helmut Marco has been with him before the start of the race for the last three races in a row now.

So I wonder if things are starting to happen in the Red Bull team. You know what? I reckon Gazle's just going to turn around and go, nah, don't worry about it. I'm all right, right, moment. I'm having a good time. Cheers. Let's move on to the race out of the front then

because I don't want to say it was a dull race, but at least between the top three, it was somewhat dull. Hamilton, Bottas and Vestappen remained in that order for the entire Grand Prix. Hamilton, eventually winning by just over eight seconds, that gap was around three seconds for the majority of the Grand Prix. The Stappen are not really threatening in third place.

It now means that in seven races, Hamilton has five wins to Bottas is one. Sam, 50 points in it in the championship. Bottas still not third place overall. What did you make of his performance out there? It was dire. It was shockingly bad. The fact that Bottas was as close to Vastappen again, essentially, over the full race as Hamilton was to Bottas, tells you everything you need to know. Hamilton nearly has a pit stop

between himself and the Red Bull driver. And Bottas is still having to look over his shoulder in his mirrors at a possible Red Bull overtaker and undercut. And the Staffing is plaguing that Mercedes. If Bottas was on the same level as Hamilton, if they were both driving about a second and a half from each other for the whole race, they could do whatever they want up there, not a problem. That car is clearly capable of doing so. Hamilton is doing exactly what the Staffen is doing in the Red Bull They are annihilating their teammates at the moment. I mean, Bottas, yes, he was let down by the puncture in Silverstone. Don't get me wrong.

He's lost a lower points from that race. He would be closer. But it's not like after that when he was coming back, hanging he wasn't ruthless against Vettel, and that lost him an extra point. He's behind Vastappen, who has been brilliant all season, you know, six consecutive podiums. He only didn't get a podium on that one race.

He didn't finish. I worry. for Bottas. I worry for Bottas. I hope he could bounce back. He needs a couple of good races and to not let his head drop because every race he's getting out of that car. And the words out of his mouth were there were only two chances I could have done it in. I didn't know I couldn't push.

Lewis was perfect today. And you just think, oh, mate, come on. And I can't believe I'm saying this. I looked into the middle distance out of the window and I thought I might have just seen Nico Rosberg in the clouds, a glimmer of hope, but maybe someone could challenge Lewis Hamilton.

And it's not going to happen. I reckon three to four more races with this similar result, championship completely wrapped up, regardless of DNS, regardless of penalties. That's it. It's done. It's over and done with. Hamilton will beat Schumacher's record this season. And Bottas, Bottas got his best finish at Spa ever as second place today in a Mercedes.

It's just, I don't know about Vouchy Bottas. He has not got that next step. to fight for a world title regardless of how good machinery is. No, not good enough. Not good enough at all. In that very early stints in the race, he seemed to be on the cusp of that DRS range and couldn't quite get there.

Hamilton put together a very good middle sector just when he needed to to extend that gap and it never really looked like it was going to happen after that point. Harry, what did you make of Valtrey Bottas out there? It's just not quite. quick enough is that sounds like the most simple exclamation ever.

He's got, he's got, we know he's got the raw pace on a Saturday sometimes, but a lot of the time he can give Hamilton and run for his money. But it's just during the race, he's definitely got better,

but it's just, just still not quite enough. I did see something the other day about how, you know, Bottas is actually pushing Hamilton to another level again because he does have that raw pace.

I just think Hamilton is just too good for Bottas. And I do, you know, again today, Vastappan is getting the most out of that Red Bull car, as we know. And he's getting as close as possible to be some sort of menace to them. I just think, what if Vestappan was in that second Mercedes? I think we'd have a Titanic battled on the hands between the two of those, between Hamilton and Vestappen. So, yeah, I don't think Bottas was like appallingly bad.

and, you know, if he had been overtaken by Vestappen, then I think I criticise him more. I just don't think he's on the level of Hamilton. And I don't, personally for him, it would be, you know, he'll be concerned. It's a worry he wants to win a championship. But for Mercedes, at the moment, it works for them. And we said this time and time again,

it's the one-to finish for Mercedes. So they don't mind at all. And they're not getting the headache. headaches they had with Rosberg and Hamilton and as much as I'd love to see that don't think Mercedes are going to go for that kind of strategy again any time soon don't think Total Wolf's blood pressure

could take it so yeah I'm disappointed for four bosses I don't think he was terrible he's just yeah it's just not quick enough not quite on the same level as Hamilton during a race distance yeah and I I think where Alex Albin is in the championship and we're going to speak about Alex Albin

in a little bit as well considering where he is and he's a long way behind both Vestappen and Bottas. You know, this is more than enough for them. Mercedes, like you say, they're not going to mind who finishes first and who finishes second. They're finishing one, two. They're taking home the maximum points. So it is disappointing, though, because you do want to see that.

From a pure fans perspective, you know, it might be good from a team's perspective. From a pure fans perspective, you do want to see that second Mercedes driver take it to Lewis Hamilton. and I was thinking to myself the other day actually, like, would Valdi Bottas stand a chance against the previous iteration of Lewis Hamilton? Like, would he stand a chance against 2014 Hamilton? Or would he stand a chance against 2007 Hamilton? And I'm not quite sure what the answer. I think there is, I think he put up more of a fight.

And I do agree that it is partly down to how well Lewis Hamilton is driving, not only how poorly Valtrey Bottas is performing. I think Bottas is performing poorly. I don't think that's the right word, but he's just not on that epic pace of Lewis Hamilton, which isn't a travesty in itself. It's just the reality of his situation. I think we have seen as well that Bottas does have tracks that he prefers, and this isn't one of them. And that was pretty evident by his qualifying performance, because if you look at Hamilton's gap to Vastappan and qualifying, that was actually, I think, lower than it's been for quite a long time, which at the longest circumstance, of the year should be the opposite way around. It should be the track that, you know, increases those gaps between the cars and, you know, there wasn't much in it at all. So, I think six temps, five, six temps to, you know, Botas and Verstappen. So I think, I think Bottas, to a degree, sort of made Hamilton look better than what he was in qualifying on Saturday. But, yeah, I mean, it was a faultless race from Hamilton. And, you know,

I think there is a bit of bad luck in it again. And I don't want to make too many excuses for Valtry Botas, but if you consider his starts, I think Bottas would probably have got Hamilton at the start if it was a longer run to the first corner. If you think of the last few starts to Grand Prix, he's had a very good start against Hamilton

in Silverstone, where there isn't much of a run down to turn one. Same again at Spy. He had a pretty good run off the... He was pretty much side by side as they went into Las Sauce. Short runs to term one. The one race where that would have mattered a lot, Spain, Bottas doesn't get a good start.

So I think there is a bit of misfortune in there, but yeah, I think, you know, I said earlier in the season, Hamilton has won this championship. You know, Bottas, he just hasn't got the consistency on a Sunday. I would disagree in that being misfortune. I think that is delivering the goods when they are needed and knowing when you need to deliver those and Bottas isn't doing that. But what is scary, I think, is if you were to take Hamilton out of Formula One existence and then look at this title fight, how close for Stappan and Bottas are. that would be incredible to watch. But I also think that compliments Hamilton as to how well he is driving this season. And again, it's like he stepped it up again, another level after last season.

Yeah, to me, Bottas does need to shift it up to another gear, really. And in terms of Max Verstappen, of course, P3, it didn't seem like there was too much he could do, other than perhaps try a two-stop strategy. Sam, do you think that they should have rolled the dice on that one? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think they would have easily got past Ricardo, as I'm going to say, left enough time. Because Ricardo would have had to have then become more offensive.

His ties would have walked faster. I think they've got him anyway. The gap in lap time that Hamilton and Bottas and Verstappen were doing in comparison to Ricardo when he wasn't being challenged, the last that they set, Ricardo was about three and a half seconds faster than the Mercedes and the Red Bull drivers. I mean, if Stafford was doing that from about 12 laps before the end of the race, there's every chance he at least gets Bottas, because there was an eight-second gap between them. And if Bottas pushes too hard to try and stay in front, maybe the tyres go, maybe he's forced into a stop, and they get the jump.

You're not asking the question. Yeah, they played it safe. They got a good points haul. They secured whatever thought the Red Bull should be securing. But I think they have had that either way. So for me, go a little risky. ask the question, force someone into doing something a bit different. I think regardless of what happens, they finish in that third place, worst case scenario.

So why not give it a little something else? But for Stefan ran a great race again, but it was risk free. He's driving the guts and bolts off that red ball and he's making a mockery of Albon at the moment, which we'll get into it in a little bit. So you can't ask for too much of them really there. But I would have liked to have seen an alternate strategy. What do you reckon, Harry? Do you think the two-stop was on for them?

I don't think it was. I think, and Brundle makes reference to this, reference this a lot in commentary was Ricardo was just a bit of a thorn in their side for the entire race. They'd never, and he may well have got past him, but that runner was super slippery in a straight line. And what, and the other, one of the other Mercedes would have covered them off,

probably bought us. So I think, yeah, it's boring. And I, you know, we are all four, two-stop strategies here at late breaking, obviously. But I don't really blame them for not trying to pull the pin on this because I just don't think if Ricardo wasn't there, then I think they would have done, that I tried it. But it wasn't worth the risk of trying to get past Ricardo. And I just think they'd have been covered off anyway by Mercedes because they had that cushion over Mac.

So yeah, it's a shame. I would have liked to have seen it, but I don't think it would have affected the actual end result anyway and they risked not getting back past Ricardo and you know I'm not saying he would have been not quick enough but Ricardo had some very decent pace even at the end of the race especially compared to their leaders so um got the fastest lap on the last lap so he was looking after his tires way better than the top three were so uh yeah I don't blame him for it it's a shame but I understand it I think risk versus reward here they should have gone for it personally um Yeah, and it does beg the question, how much could Mercedes have given if they needed to?

You know, Mercedes were likely heavily managing their tyres on those last few laps. How much faster could they have gone if they wanted to? We don't really know the answer to that, but I think it was worth it here. Ultimately, Vastappan coming into the pits, there were four possible consequences of this. Worst case scenario, they lose two points. You know, they lose the position to Ricardo, which is obviously three points, but if Vestappen's pitting at that point in the race, he's getting the fastest lap. I've got pretty much no doubt about that whatsoever. So I think the worst case scenario is they lose two points, which for me makes it worth it. Because then the other three potential consequences are he gains one point for getting the fastest lap and finishing third where he would have come into the pits from. He gains four points for getting Bottas for P2. And then you've got, you've got a fastest lap and finishing third where he would have come into the pits from. He gains four points for getting Bottas for P2. And then you've got, the best case scenario, which would be taking Lewis Hamilton for P1 and then gaining 11 points on him. So you've got four possible situations there plus 11, plus four, plus one or minus two. And I just

think it would have been worth the risk of losing those two points in the championship to give this a go. And I don't know whether it would have worked. I think it would have been close because there weren't many who tried the two-stop out there. I think that the one that we can reference is Leclair against Vettel. Obviously, they were very close on track when Leclair decided to go for that two-stop strategy. Ultimately, Vettel just finished ahead of him. So they pretty much leveled out. It didn't seem as if there was anything in it there. So I don't think this was a silver bullet. I don't think this was a definite win for Red Bull. I just think with only, you're only going to lose one position at best. You could gain two positions. I think this was worth it. I think they should have

minute ago. You said too many numbers in that then. I was utterly lost. Plus one minus two times a hundred minus another three. You know that meme where she's looking at all the algebra and all the graphs and lines that are coming out of the air and her eyes are doing that. That's me on the other side of this microphone at the moment. I might try and, no, I was considering trying to explain it, but I think it would turn into the most patronising thing. I've ever said. Explain it to me like I'm five. That is literally my life motto.

You did say that line a lot of the time. It's because I don't understand things a lot of the time. Anyway, let's move on to our final topic of today, and that is Alex Albon. So Albin had his best qualifying since the first race in Austria. He started P5, ultimately ended up finishing P6. He moved on to the medium tires at his pit stop compared to everyone else who moved on the hard tires,

defended Ockon off for quite a long time, but that last lap, O'Con managed to get past. Last lap, O'Con, as he is now known. To me and be alone. Anyone that makes a move on the last lap now is called last lap X until someone else makes a move on the last lap. That's pretty much the rule. King of the Hill almost.

And yeah, he moved down to P6 as a consequence of that. Sam, do you think this was overall a more encouraging weekend for Albon or do you think this was more of the same? I don't really want to dig into it too much. There's a lot of people on Twitter that for some reason we'll back Alexander Albon to the absolute Hilt explaining that he's a precious individual that it just gets up the extra time. It's another race and he'll be there.

I saw someone tweet Albon you did so well, sweetie. Like there is mum or something. It's all a bit, the attitude to drivers on social media at the moment is all a bit weird. people seem to lack the ability to be critical without being rude or you can still be a fan of someone and know when they're not doing what they need to be doing and it feels like social media and a lot of followers of F1 are lacking that concept at the moment. An album for me, he isn't doing what he needs to do when his teammate is only six seconds off of second place and he is the biggest threat to the lead team.

He is second in the championship and beating the guy that we think should be challenging some would argue the greatest driver of all time. So Bottas challenging Lewis Hamilton. And Albaugh has only just passed Charles LeClerc in the point standings because Ferrari didn't score any points today. Albon, the guy that, yes, I think his qualifying was actually good enough today, but needs to progress on that for a Sunday. He was closing after Verstappen to make it work. Ricardo did a great job anyway.

You need to be within six to eight seconds of Bastapen for me. at the end of a race. Just like Bottas and Lewis, I don't think Bottas is a good job being eight seconds back. Well, if Albaugh's behind an eight second gap, I don't think he's done a good job either. And he wasn't just eight seconds back. He was three places back.

He was under pressure from McLaren. He got jumped by both Renaos in the end, who just drove a better race than him. It's not all his fault. I don't understand the strategy that they tried to apply for Album once again. I think that they realize that maybe he doesn't have the pacing on one stop, so they're always going to try and make a two-stop work.

Um, Gasly is churning in the best season of his lifetime at the moment. And Albon for me is still not where he needs to be. I don't know how much time you give someone. He's now had over a season, uh, really to kind of get used to it. He's had as much time as Ghazley had in that car.

And I don't think he's really doing enough. So, yeah, Albon needs to stepping up again. I'm a little bit tired of saying it. I don't want to be attacked by Albon lovers. You know, I respect you all very much. Uh,

but he's, he's really not. got it for me at the moment, which is a shame because he's really nice, but he's not doing a good enough job for a top seat at the moment. What do you make of Albin's performance out there? Harry, a better one than previous races? He, you know, he's doing amazing, sweetie.

I know it was you. Maybe it was his mum, that's what I'm going to say. I think he had a better weekend. He fluffed up the start a bit. he shouldn't have let the other Renae get passed and probably should have got past the other one. But I was encouraged more by his qualifying yesterday. His race wasn't amazing, although I do think he was kind of hampered by the strange call to put him on mediums. And ultimately, I think that's why he lost out to Ockon at the end.

But I don't know. I thought it was kind of more encouraging. But, yeah, you're right. Vastappan is still miles. up the road, which he needs that second driver to be there with him because he's always fighting Tim Mizzades on his own. And Album's not able to do at the moment. I do wonder if he's been on the harder ties, he might have been able to help more and possibly get past Ricardo too. But I was encouraged by his quality performance, less encouraged by his race, which is

normally the other way around. So he just needs a whole weekend where everything goes right. So hopefully you can put it together for Monza. But I don't see them go back to Gasly. I think it will... Hold on, Ben, before you make your point as well, I just... Sorry, Harry. I just want to jump in on something, Harry, when you finish. But carry on, sorry. Okay.

Sorry. I don't remember what the conclusion was to my point. So, Sam... Oh, I saw my fault. I've ruined it for everyone. Well, it's... You were saying that you don't think they'll go back to Gasly. Oh, yeah, I don't. I don't think they will. Sam, please. Your point is bound to me more controversial and interesting.

It's not. Well, honest, I was just going to say that you were just making the point there, that you were more encouraged by a Saturday performance and less so by a Sunday performance. And we've always made the point on the podcast that you don't get any points for your Saturday performance. You know, it essentially means nothing as it just gives you a leg up on Sunday. For me, if it was possible, Albon could qualify in 20th place every race. as he finished, quitting about five seconds of the Stappen, every single race. I don't really care how Gilobani does on that Saturday. As long as he finishes that close to the Sapon on a Sunday, I'm never asking him to be the other one driver at Red Bull. He just,

for me, he is driving the car that is meant to be fighting the top guys, but he's driving it like it's a racing point. And I think that is enough to say that they need to look at their options. Sorry for interrupting. That's very rude to me. You're an ass. I am. I've known that for a long time.

Oh, you've done him there. Absolutely, Adam. I was encouraged by his performance in qualifying, actually. And I do think that's where it starts. And I understand what you're saying, Sam, completely. You know, you are rewarded points on Sunday. You're not rewarded any points on Saturday. But I do think that starts with good qualifying performances.

Because the way it's been so far is that he's been qualifying so far out of place that even if he has had a... a solid race, it hasn't been able to get him in amongst the top few guys anyway. So I think if he does start to qualify higher up and he continues to show some of the racecraft that he has shown, which has been encouraging in parts, then maybe he can get some good results together. The results in qualifying, it was half a second between Vastappen and Albin, so I don't want to get too carried away here. But in terms of Q1 and Q2, it was much better. It was much better.

He was within a couple attempts of Vastappen, and ultimately, I think he referenced this in an interview that he felt let down by his Q3 lap. His Q2 lap was actually faster than his Q3 lap, which should never really be the case. So he just didn't improve when he needed to improve in Q3. And you can, you know, we can blame him for that. That's okay.

But at least it's more encouraging in that respect. The race itself, and I'm going to take the second stint completely out of it because I do think it was the wrong call to put him on the medium tires. And if he was on the hard tire, I think he finished his P5. But ultimately, even early in that stint, he wasn't threatening Daniel Ricardo on better tires. He wasn't threatening him, which is worrying in itself. But if we just take the first stint where he's on exactly the same tires as the Renault guys, he wasn't making any moves. He was just sat there, which is worrying because I believe that

Vastappen would have made his way past. To be perfectly blunt, and to be even more blunt, Vastappen didn't even need to make those moves because he's qualifying better than Albin. So there is still a lot he needs to improve on. I do think he's a solid racer, and I do think he could make it work. But at the moment, it's not happening for him. And he needs to work out why. He needs to work out why, as soon as possible, really, if he wants to shore up his seat for next year. Well, then, should we leave that there? It's been a good podcast. Belgian Grand Prix, of course. Lewis Hamilton taking the victory.

Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here. Just want to say to all of our listeners that you're doing great, sweeties, and thank you so much for sticking with us through me interrupting Harry. Harry finally getting a bold prediction riot and then confusing our tiny little brains. We really appreciate your listening. If you have enjoyed it, share it. We're going to be back of course late in the week because we've got another race. We're at the Temple of Speed, which is always very excited.

I think lots of late breaking. Three, see what I did there. Anyway, come join us on YouTube. Come chat to us on Twitter, out of breaking. We'd love to have you. Leave like, subscribe, comments, wherever you're going. We really appreciate it. In the meantime, I've been Samuel, Seid.

I've been Ben Harking. And I've been Howie Eat. Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.