The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Haas ignore Binotto and Szafnauer for top job - the right call?

Episode Date: January 14, 2024

Sam, Ben & Harry discuss Gene Haas' reasoning for ignoring bigger outside names for new team boss in favour of inside hire Komatsu. They also cover the 'friction' between F1 and FOM, Sargeant's assertion that the gap between F2 and F1 is too large, and Bottas' rush to secure an Audi contract. They finish with a game of Fact or Crap... Generation Logistics are looking to find and engage the next generation of logistics talent - people like you! Find out more here: https://generationlogistics.org/ FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League BUY our Merch EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. I feel like it's a tad ironic that we've got to this point in January and we've still got a 100% record attendance across all three of us in the only month where there's not really anything going on. That just feels very late breaking.

What do you mean? Nothing's going on. So much is going on. What's going on? Has helped us out. Oh, yeah, true. Yeah. It's the first thing they've done

that's productive for a long time. As soon as the season starts, I'm out of here. Bye, guys. That is how it works. See you later. Review. And we do have Patreon, of course,

where you can pay to get Harry, who is always there. Yeah. I only do it for the people that pay. It's a high cost member. I am. Good. Good stuff.

Well, today's schedule is basically everything we were going to talk about last week, but then we got completely carried away with giving our most underrated drivers. So there's like three topics on here that we were supposed to talk about then. But alongside that, and what we'll kick off with today is regarding Gene Hass. So obviously we very kindly, thank you, Hasse, decided to announce the news just ahead of time for our Wednesday recording. So if you haven't heard our initial response to Gunter-Steiner leaving the team, you can do so in our previous episode. But of course, we were just reacting to that very, very breaking news. Gene Haas has since had a few comments about the hire of Ayokomatsu. Obviously, it was a decision whether to hire

internally or look externally. Quite a few external candidates that they could have looked at. Matea Bonotto, of course, currently a free agent. Yoss Capito, a free agent as well. I think Othmar Saffnau was in the running, but he couldn't pay for childcare because, you know, Who wants to look after nine kids? Pricey these days. That's good banter, Ben. Well done. Congrats.

It's poor. Real poor. Anyway, so Comaso has been with the team ever since Roman Grosjean moved from Lotus to the team. A number of years ago now, Gene Hass had the following to say about the decision. I've been running Hass automation for over 40 years now, bringing people in from the outside.

It takes them time to learn six months to a year. and a lot of the time, you don't even like them. It's better to take people you know, and even if they are not the perfect fit, at least you know what you're going to get. That's really worked out well, pretty well for us here at House Automation, so I'm really applying a lot of the building blocks

that were here to the Formula One team. I really like to have people that I know who understand the day-to-day operations, understand the people, rather than bringing in a stranger who is going to stir everything up and create a mess. Sam, Gene Hass is sat on the fence. It's the line.

You might not even like him. Absolutely gets me. Are you hiring people to be your best friend, Gene? Oh, you need to hire my friends. I thought this is a hilarious interview. And there's some logic behind it. The bit that really got me was, you know, we've had serious success currently doing it this way at Haast.

And, you know, we're talking about Formula One here. I don't care about the rest of the fight. The racing empire that Gene Haas has, Empire's a strong word, really. Done all right. And he's done it. Outside of Formula One, he's done all right. Yeah.

Inside Formula One. Rubbish. He's gone down this route of, I really like to talk to the people that know me, and I refuse to talk to anyone else. And I can't say it has gone well for Eugene, really. Gunter's a nice man, right? We like him here at late breaking, and I'm sure if he were to come home to the podcast,

we'd have a grand old time, maybe do like a cooking show. He's got more time now. He has got more time. Maybe he could be our roving reporter. And we go over to Gunter Steiner. But he's not there. No, that's the joke. Like you used to be the Reverend reporter for...

That's not getting to that. No. That's weird content. So he's run down this route of comparing, you know, the new hire, come out to, you know, the internal bill that he's brought up there, which I can have respect, you know, promoting from within makes a lot of sense. And I'm sure in our own work, we've all talked about how, you know, oh, there's a job position they should promote from within.

A lot of people work hard. It's nice to give people that chance. But it feels like he's more promoted from within because he's going, I don't like anyone else. can't take the risk on having someone who's got my friend in the organisation. So I know that I like that guy. I've got to promote him. As he mates.

Fair play too, Gene, though, if you look at other organisations that have been through similar changes in leadership over the recent years and Toto Wolf and Christian Horner are by far now the longest lasting team bosses that have been at one team. I saw the other day, Mike Crack is now the third longest standing team principal. That is ridiculous. Is it three seasons? He did, oh no, he's on two seasons, have they?

Yeah, is it two? Yeah, he's, two and a half now at one. Yeah, it's not very ridiculous, right? So he's looking at this and going, am I seeing other teams have success by bringing in this almost merry-go-round at the moment of team bosses? Bonotto's been mentioned, obviously Schnaf now has also been brought up as an option,

childcare pending, and it's one of those things that you think of Alping, have you been successful with your absolute role call of managers, time after time, after time, bringing someone new, have you seen that success? Ferrari. You keep changing your tact. You have had marketing-based managers. You have had Ferrari men down to the core. You've had those who are focused around a certain department not working. The only example that I feel where hiring from within is actually successful, of course, is McLaren with Stella. And that is currently working.

So he may be looking at that model and going, there's security there. There's someone that understands the brand. They can rely on that person. It's worked for McLaren. Why don't I do it with my team here? I remove the people person that is good to Steyner. And I bring someone who is tactical and analytical, Kamatsu from internal to make them the team leader. He states that we're great at people management. I'm not sure about that, but we're great on Netflix drive to survive. Yes, Gunter goes a great job there.

We're not good at understanding the analytical side of things, which confuses me because Gunter's actual background is engineering. Right? I think so. That's what he used to do back before he was a team boss. So anyway, he's gone for this internal hire. I don't really think it's going to revolution. things as being equated to in his fantastic analogy last episode.

The real problem, regardless of who you stick up the top, is that you've got a flash for cash. I tweeted the other day that it's like trying to run a five-star hotel and giving the guest sleeping bags. You have to make sure that the full experience and the full equipment and is provided. And Kevin Magnuson came out the other day and said, an example of how bad our funding is at the moment

is that our pit stops are so slow because our wheel guns are from 2016 and they've never been replaced and they're just old. How ridiculous is that? your will go, because are eight years old. Like, I mean, you get your money's worth, Gene. But yeah, it's just a bit of a mess there. I think Gene is pointing to everyone but himself

as a reason for there being the problems at heart. They could have success. We've said this so many times. They're the only ones that could tap into the American market as being the hometown heroes. They just seem to refuse to do so. It's a very confusing strategy in that sense. So they've gone for this in town Ohio.

I really hope for the team that they're able to be successful, but I fear they're going to come up against the exact same problems that Gunter has had for seven, eight years. It's a new McDonald's advert in that. Is that? You know, like getting your money's worth. Hasis using their eight-year-old wheel guns.

Get your monies worth. Good. Surprise they haven't, you know, spoken to, you know, a team from the 70s. I suppose they haven't, you know, gone to arrows or something. Like, you got anything from 2002 that still works. Andrea Moda, got any spare will guns?

Hello, Ferrari. Can we look into your archives, please? We'd just like to borrow some break discs. you might not have used. Oh, yes, Phil Hill used this one back in 1961. Let's have that. You have it for £8.40. Yeah.

What did you make of these comments, Harry? He's funny, isn't he, Jean House? I didn't he realise that? I don't know his intent to be funny. Look, it's just smacks of the fact that he doesn't want to spend any money again. And you're right, promoting from within, I think, is important. And you mentioned McLaren, which, you know, did it with Andrea Stella,

was, I think that's been a good call all round. But the problem is, versus Hass, McLaren have invested a lot of money in turning their team around. Zach Brown's been spending a dollar, changing things up. Stella's building a building with every tool under his belt supplied to him.

And Gunther Steiner's there with a ruler. Yeah, Gene Hass has just picked the next person who'd like cheapest option. Literally. Because I'm sure an outside, as you say, there are other options, but an outside hire would be more expensive than promoting from within. Just seems like that's what he's after again.

Yeah, I also just think that any outside hire would go, well, I've got these plans and these plans and these plans. And I need to make sure that, you know, leadership are committed to this. If you're not going to give me the supplies required, then I don't want to take the job. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was met with some of those responses. Yeah. And then so it doesn't seem like he wants to spend the money.

And then to the point, his point about not wanting to shake things up. Why not, Gene? What's been going so well so far? Literally. What? It's like, you know, I don't want to shake this bin bag in the hope that some gold might fall out. What do you think is in the bin bag, mate? It's exactly what you need.

You know what they say? If it's broke, don't fix it. Exactly that. So I don't understand the logic behind it, to be honest. And I know he's referencing what he's done in the past. But he must have discovered by now, Formula One is a different kind of spot. Yeah. Versus NASCAR, for example.

So might require a different approach, Gene, because it's not worked so far. I think you should have got someone in. And again, this is not a, not dissing who they have promoted, but I don't know, just feels like if you were going to get rid of Gunterstiner, a seasoned team principal, replace him with a different seasoned team principal who might do something different because at the moment you're just promoting someone that they'll probably carry on as they were. And they've shown as a company that they refused to maintain chances for rookies, right? You had, they brought Schumachering and then immediately got rid of him because of

the lack of experience. You can just come out and said that now is able to. And yet you're promoting a team boss who I'm sure is brilliant on what he does in the technical side has no experience managing companies, people properly, a whole team, you know,

and yet you've gone, we'll give the rookie a go and we're at our lowest point ever in Formula One. That common from starting to wind me up because, yeah, he didn't have any experience, but he's a rookie. Yeah,

that is the point. In his experience. The point of getting a rookie is to build the rookie. Yeah, and don't give him a terrible car for one year. Rookies thinks that then apparently veterans Good to Stuygens,

like that's what that means. A veteran's one that's not done it before. McLaren have decided they're going to go back to David Culfard instead of Oscar Piastri now because Piastri doesn't have enough experience. That is the way forward. Yeah, I didn't like that.

That was a stupid comment. But anyway, yeah, this is, this is dumb. In conclusion. Yeah, it is. End of statement. Yeah, this is, Gene Hasse isn't very PR savvy, or maybe he just doesn't care.

I think it's probably more of that in that F1 has increasingly become a world of saying as little as you can, you know, to not give anything away. When it comes to Gene Hasse, he will, he'll say exactly what he thinks, which isn't always a good thing because most of what I think he said here is wrong. This was a real opportunity for Gene Hasse. whether you agree with the Steiner decision or not, this was an opportunity for Gene Has to back and to support and to endorse Kumatsu and whoever he brings in alongside. And this was his opportunity to go, look, the decision was made. I didn't like where we were.

Here's why we're going in this direction. But he hasn't done that because rather than endorse Kumatsu, he's basically just endorsed why he didn't do something else. And I know it's a very subtle difference. but in terms of pure motivation and the message you're putting out there, I think it is a substantial difference. He could have used this opportunity to say, look, I could have hired externally, but here's why Kumatsu is the right person. Here's why I think he is best suited for this role. Instead, he's gone with, well, an external hire wouldn't have been a good idea because of this,

this and this. Don't advocate why you're not doing something. Advocate while you're doing something. I feel like that would be a better endorsement for Kamatsu. I mean, a lot of people could probably relate to this, either themselves or someone else within their working life, where, you know, imagine a world where you've received a promotion and, you know, you could have, it could have gone external, but you've been given the nod internally, you're at the company, and you hear your boss say,

it's better to take the people you know, and even if they're not the perfect fit, At least you know what you're going to get. That is not a ringing endorsement. I feel like he could have boosted his confidence a lot. As you say, he's never done anything like this before. I feel like in this position, he could use a real vote of confidence from Gene Hasse. Instead, he's gone, well, I don't know, I was walking the corridors and he was there and he was available.

So I decided to take him. That's not what you want to be instilling in your employees after a promotion. It just sends a message to the world that, you know, the status quo was the safest option. And as you've already alluded to, status quo is okay if you're doing well, Hass aren't. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure this was overall the right approach from Gene Hasse.

I mean, where he says like a stranger would create a mess, instead of just say, again, I don't agree with the way he's framed this. A stranger would create a mess. Sure. But focus on the benefits of what Kamatsu's done in his time at Hasse. focus on the benefits of, you know, Kamasa was my full support to revolutionize and update any and all processes within the company. That is a way to really move this forward.

I was disappointed with the way that Gene Haas approached this. It just feels like Hasseur, like this league one team that crept into the Premier League somehow without anyone noticing. And unlike the Premier League, if we're using a football reference, you'd just be relegated, but Hasks could. can be and they're just sat there as this inferior outfit. Not to disc amatsy before us even a day on the job as well. But whilst, yes, Hars has raved on about the wrong things, you're right, you should

throw support entirely behind your new man and see it as a positive, much like what steak have done, right, with the changeover of Alfa Amayo. They know that they're not going to win titles in the next two years, realistically, but they've gone round and they've gone, we're going to go revolutionised things, we're going to change how marketing works with the car. They've gone down all these positive aspects. makes total sense could do that right now at the changing of the guard. He has just turned around and given no praise to external, no praise to internal,

and then promoting a man who realistically has been a part of Gunter Steiner's team for what, eight years, who also hasn't achieved anything. The guy's been in charge of the technical aspect of that car for eight years. No breakthrough, nothing new, nothing revolutionary has come out of it. So you've hired a guy who was underneath the guy that you just got rid of to do the job that you just got rid of, who was also part of the team of the guy who just got rid of and hope that he's going to be entirely different

and successful and change everything because he's a more analytics guy and not a person guy. It just, it smacks of laziness. It smacks of I can't be bothered to do my research and I can't be bothered to change anything because it costs money in my time. That's what it feels like.

He's gone out and said, I don't really like cheese and ham sandwiches, but I have one every single day and they taste fine, I suppose. But I'm not trying that chicken terriacies sandwich over there. You know what? Put a pickle in my cheese and ham sandwich. It might be slightly better. Don't know, but most of the ingredients are exactly the same. Fine. I'll get on with it again. That's what it feels like. He just can't be bothered to change up his order. And it doesn't

work, Gene. The team's going to be the same. Bloody love a pickle. I know you do. I thought I'd give it a mention just for you. He loves that. Also, you can I agree with you as well. Like the most comedic line of this was that he doesn't like people or doesn't like new people. I feel like someone needs to tell him that there is no exception to this, no exception. Everyone is new to a company at some point. Like, you cannot avoid that. It is unavoidable. Gunter Steiner, Kamatsu, they were new at one point.

You can't just not update because you're not sure you're going to like the new person. I think of one else left eventually. Yeah. Just run out of people. Everyone is new at some point. Just be in with the janitor and he'll go, uh, since you and me, Keith, same janitor at my, apartment. He's got lots of jobs.

He'll go, you're the only person I like, Keith. They're going to go, we do need someone to build the car, though, because I can't do that. I'm just very good at keeping the place clean. It's going, nah, you're the same boss now, Keith. They'll be new. You can't have new. On that logic, it would still be Roman Grosjon and Estabant and Gutierrez. Surely, surely.

Because the company wouldn't have been created based on that project because everyone who started there was new. It would just be his own family that's always. older than him because anyone that's younger than him are new to the planet. Every time a new child appears. No. No. Hate you.

I feel like that whole line, that black paragraph, it speaks more to who Gene Hasse is rather than the people he'd be bringing in. Like, just learn to play with others, Gene. Just a grumpy old man that wants to be left alone. Oh. Gosh. So who's replaced, I mean, Kamatsu's obviously had a promotion. So I guess that means binocati's.

is going to be his number two then. No, because he's new to the company. Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone's getting a promotion. Everyone is stepping up. And whoever was at the bottom beforehand, there is now just a void. And this will continue to happen. That's how it works at house.

They are actually hiring someone new to be the CEO of the company, who I think is going to be Europe-based. But yeah, I think whoever that new CEO-O is, plus the, plus Kamatsu, they'll report directly into Gene Hasse, but remains to be seen who that hire is. Now, what is the responsibilities of that individual, right? Because that can differ massively team to team, company to company. And I'm sure, is that something that maybe Zach Brown does?

That more relevant in terms of McLaren, right? He's the director of the company, isn't he? Yeah, well, that's probably his sort of role. So it'd be more of a marketing. So they've accepted that Kamatsu is team-focused, car building, analytics man, strange superhero that I've created there, analytics man. What's that in the sky?

He's analytics man. Analytics man would get stuff done. He's perfectly equated where to land without any issue to anyone else. He's an analytics man. And then they must have Marketing Man, who's really annoying guy who shouts me a lot on the streets.

Have you got something to tell us, Sam, about a new job? I might be leaving the show. And the only person that Gene has... Analytics man is in the sky. Marketing matters is running along the street. Selling things as he goes. Buy this. Buy this man.

Okay. I imagine that's what this is doing, right? And they've gone Europe because, obviously, I think they're trying to equate Haast as more of a European brand. Again, I think that's a mistake. Tap into what you already have that no one else does, which is the North American market.

And yet they're not going to. So it'd be really interesting to see who they're bringing and how that happens. And maybe they'll have more than three sponsors on the car. Early Hall of Fame are there. Marketing, man, I'm going to take that. Analytics brand. I'm going to take that.

I mean, not a discussion for today, but Hassel, so. did, Gene Hass also did say no on the whole Andretti rumor front that there might be a buy out there. So, that's a shame, isn't it? It doesn't look like that, sir, Root. Let them in then. Let them cook.

Yeah. Good. Let's close off this segment with that then, shall we? Everyone get their first sandwiches of the day. We're going to our first break. On the other side, we're going to be talking, Muhammad Ben Suleum. What's my favourite mid-podcast topic?

Get the dying table already. The can't handle it. Oh gosh. Okay, everyone, welcome back. Mohammed bin Suleim, a comment from him caught our eye the other day, which is him saying that friction between F1 and Formula One management is sometimes healthy.

Sam, is it? On the surface of it, I don't disagree with him, actually. I do think that both of these organisations, to... you know, twings fighting over the same toy. They have to keep each other in check to some degree because otherwise one will walk off and start an evil empire,

I'm sure of it. Formula One management has to do the same for FIA and the FIA has to do the same for Formula One management. I do think they, in a strange world, need each other. They just have to be a, you know, a line in the sand of how far that goes because they really do like to pull each other's hair, don't they, when it comes to literally any topic ever discussed?

But I think he's right. I do think that without FIA, we might never see an 11th team arrive because Ben Silliam is championing that more than anyone else. And I do think on the other hand, we might not see new ventures happen because Formula One wants to try new things. So we might not get new locations. We might not see different rule types coming.

I'm trying to think of something that they've done recently as an example. But sprint races is all that comes to mind, and I refuse to give that any credit. Anyway, my point being here that I think if you let it all be run under one head, there is a chance that direction all flows one way and it means that us of spectators, if it goes the wrong way,

you could see the sport transform into something that we have no desire to watch. It could suck out a lot of the entertainment, a lot of the competition could be removed if it goes a certain direction. So I think you need an external regulator. You need someone that isn't controlled by the dominating force that owns the sport

to keep things in check and make sure that things are competitive and open and available and things are open to change, which is good. I just don't know if Bernan, Silly M has always had the right approach in ensuring that that friction is a healthy friction. But yeah, I think generally the statement is fair. Do you think the statement is fair, Harry?

I... No. Good. Not particularly. It's friction in this room. I know I see, I understand your points. I just... I think it's not great for...

It's not great for F1 that we have this. And again, I'm not saying it's unwarranted the friction between them currently because it's the FIA being rubbish most of the time. Yeah. But I just don't think it's good. It was, in the long run, I think it's good for the sport for this to be carry on or for them there to be with this friction. I watched the other day the second episode,

and I know I'm taking a long time, the second episode of the Braun documentary. Cricky, it came out months ago. I know. it's good. I just sort of forgot about it. But in the second episode, and this is something

that had completely escaped my memory. It covers a lot about the battle between F1-Slas of the FIA and FOTA. FOTA, yes. Formula One of one teams association.

This whole thing completely escaped my mind. Anyway, spoiler alert, the F1 and FIA won. Max Mosley and Bernie. What? Yeah, yeah.

There wasn't no breakaway series, sadly. But it, It reminded me that there was a time when the FIA in Formula One, and I'm not saying this was better, but they were, they were together on everything. They were. They did not disagree,

but you did not get in between Bernie and Max, just didn't happen. And say this, say that sort of situation arose again, we'd be in a mess. We'd be in such a mess. Because at the moment, there's no way F1 and the FIA would agree on pretty, pretty much anything.

And if you ended up with a third party in this, like a photo, if all the teams decided they had had enough and wanted to break away, I think we'd be in a real mess. You don't think that chaos sometimes brings people together? You think they'd bond over it? I think they would.

Stefano Domenicali and Mohammed Benzilian. I see Ferrari step out of line and go, this is the calling. We are together again. Anyway, it's a good story of that one, by the way. I completely forgot about it. It's fantastic.

Yeah. really interesting. And how they got, I'm a spoiler a lot again, but how they got Braun to be the first one to sign.

It's very controversial. We won't go into it, but watch the documentary. It's very interesting. They go into it. Obviously, you haven't seen it yet. They really go into a lot of detail about it.

Yeah. Braun needed the money that Bernie had. Broh. Broan Braun. Broan Braun. Bernie was like, sign here,

and I'll give you the money. Give me the money. Anyway, in conclusion, I don't think it's a great thing that this carries out. It's good. Good for the sport.

the health of the sport. Do you think the danger is more in that decisions won't get made and we, you know, F1 becomes stale because of that? Or do you think poor decisions will be made based on the lack of cohesion between the two? Is it they're both? Where do you think the issues either already have started to come in or will start to come in? Yeah, I mean, it could be both of those. You can have poor decisions, which we already have.

to be honest, but that could even lead to no decisions. And we end up like, yeah. This is my point. I just don't think it's good. It's good for us to talk about, obviously. But it's not good. I didn't think it's good for the sport because, yeah, like you say, we're seeing over Andretti.

You know, this is sort of the main one at the moment about whether we're letting Andretti in an F1 don't want to and the FIA do. And is that ever going to resolve? Well, I have to, yeah, you can only base these things on what we're seeing currently, right? You can't predict the future and big decisions, and Dretti or new teams, right? Formula One management saying no, FIA saying yes. So to me, the friction is good because I want the FIA to fight for new competition. And I think that's right.

So I agree that someone has to stand up to Formula One management. Otherwise, Andretti would go, can we come in? Formula One management goes, no. And that's the end of it. We never see anything. So having someone to essentially stand up for general competition, I think, is part. positive. Sprint races comes in. That's another big change. That's entirely Formula One management. FIA aren't allowed really to have a say on that because that's part of the overall

general competition. That's not about, you know, who competes itself or the overall rule set. That's the weekend's structure and things like that. That's up to F1 management to change. In our opinion, bad call, right? Don't enjoy that. If FIA were allowed to weigh in, would we have seen some kind of debate? Will they have spoken for us as consumers and gone doesn't work? Don't know. I do think that you need to have friction. maybe not the best thing, but I do think you need to have an external party that stands up and says, well, there, this isn't going the right way for the people, for the viewer. And I, you need that. Think of the people, when somebody think of the children. And I do think you need that. I do,

in a sport like Formula One, which is governed by old white men with billions and billions of dollars, you do need someone to march in and go, hey, I don't think this is the right call. And I think that's okay sometimes. Yeah, I mostly agree with that, to be honest, yeah, because I think his sometimes healthy quote, yeah, I think he's got a point. Mainly for the reasons you've just said, Sam, in that if one of the two parties was too powerful, you would have one party just rolling over the other. And I don't think that would be beneficial. Because whilst a lot of the time in theory, the FIA and F1 should have similar or the same objective, there are going to be instances where what is good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.

If you were to have a world where F1 was able to absolutely stamp its authority over the FIA, you would have 10 teams from now until the end of time. And then on the other side, if the FIA were too powerful, good Lord Almighty, what on earth would this world become? So I don't think either extreme is right. I don't think it's ideal. and I think a mixture of both to be able to put forward their case is, in theory, at least, the way to go. I think that the sometimes healthy bit is probably the most important part of that quote because there is absolutely a limit to this and it's a limit that the FIA and F1 have crossed

multiple times by quite a long way. It's not like a few times over the last year. They've just gone over that limit. No, they've gone over by, you know, 10 miles. So they need to rein it back. And maybe we do need two organizations that in terms of their ideology, they are closer in line in terms of what they want because, you know, like I said, in theory, there shouldn't be too much in the way of difference between what one wants

versus what the other wants. The main difference is the teams want to be rich and the FIA wants the sports be rich, which can go hand in hand. but in the case of wanting an 11th team doesn't obviously go hand-hand. So yeah, I think overall, and in terms of like the outlook as well from a public point of view,

I agree with what you're saying there, Harry, that it just looks, it looks amateurish at times because whilst we know the differences between the FIA and F1 and why one exists and why the other exists to a more casual fan, it just looks like F1 as a sport is disagreeing with itself

and it's a bit of a political joke and to an extent it is it doesn't look like to an outsider you've got two competing bodies going up against each other it just looks like one sport that's a mess which obviously isn't something we want no

good debate one everyone unlike the F1 and FIA in certain points we've done well Good. Good. It's one of those where I feel like the beginning of 2023, we were in a position where like, okay, this year is probably going to be the worst that this relationship gets. And I feel like 2024 is going to try and outdo that.

Being silly him out of nowhere with the steel chair. Oh, good. When do you think this Andretti thing is going to be like, when is the poo going to hit the fan with this? Always a great saying. I think summer this year, isn't it? I think summer this year. Because they need a time window to get ready for 26, right?

They need at least a whole season, really, to prepare to ensure they're building the regulations correctly, to make sure they're doing everything they can with personnel and car build. You can't let them sit on this pedestal hoping for a decision in the waiting room for 18 months, and maybe they might get a call three months before the 2026 season starts. They rightly, as an organisation, deserve the chance to build themselves. to a point of being competitive. Now, I don't know if F1 are stalling, the F1 management is a stalling because they go,

well, if we do let them in, let's make them a failure. And if they're a failure, it proves our point, and we don't do it again. Sure, clever tactic. Run a long game. Hurt yourself in some way to long-term game.

But I think the FIA need to push us through. And I think because of those conflicting goals, to I think, reach the same overall objective of making Formula One a profitable yet exciting sport, they are going to butt heads on something like this and it's going to come together, I think. because Andretti will kick off publicly otherwise if they don't get a decision,

a formalised decision of yes or no by this summer. That's when I would want to kick off. I'm like, I need some bloody time to get things sorted. Got other things to do. Is he, man? Yeah. I think the FIA gave their stamp of approval on this in September. It was either September or October.

I think it was September. So we're talking months later down the line and still nothing from F1. I struggled to see how this isn't. decided in a courtroom. That's where it will eventually be decided, in my opinion. How ridiculous. A lot of banter.

Off to the courts we go. It just feels like it's inevitable inevitability. And I agree with you, Sam. I think F1 is just playing for time. But I think we'll, I think that's where the end will come. And if you want to see us don our suits

and hey off to the courtroom to document what's going on, subscribe to YouTube. Because when we hit 10K, we'll do it. No, that's not what we said. That's what we said. No, no. Yes. So what's our role in this?

Court jesters. Yes. Yes. We will keep the tension light. I'm sure that's the right use of court. I mean, technically we're already caught jesters in the court of public opinion. If Harry dresses up like Othmar Schnaffnower,

me and Ben will be one of his babies. I enjoy the equivalent of Schnafnauer. I can't say his name. Shaf, shafgauer. I can't say, I'm so sorry, Othma. He's fine. I was going to get into a whole debate about why Harry's O'Mare and we're the babies, but that's not happening.

So we're going to take our next break. I do have nine children. Shut up. Last the daycare system. We're going on a break. Oh, dear. Oh, man. Okay, welcome back.

Comments from Logan Sargent up next, who's stated that his belief that the gap between F2 and F1 is too big. And as sort of referred to the old F2 chassis that's actually being, you know, there's a new chassis coming in for 2024, but he was referring to the 2023 one. Just saying that overall, in terms of pure pace, it's so far from what you get when you get to F1, that it's not particularly helpful.

Sam, what are your thoughts on these comments? I can't understand where he's coming from here. You know, as a feeder series, it is a sanctuary a series that is designed to both create talent, build talent, and allow them to build their expertise in the situation so they are prepared for Formula One. That is the overall end goal of what these Figue's seasons are. It makes sense that the equipment has a logical step between one and the other, right?

Formula 3 should feed nice into Formula 2 and Formula 2 should feed nice into Formula 1. logically, that makes sense. It's got to, yeah. Yeah, that to me, yeah, I think actually what probably needs to change more about these figure seasons is the creation of the calendar and how regularly they're racing

and allowing them to get more regular races under their belt because Formula 2 is like turning up for one exam every five months at school and hoping that you know the information, whereas Formula 1 is actually like having to sit an exam every single day of the week and hoping that you nail every single one of them. And moving from one to the other is so difficult.

to do, that I imagine that that bit is harder. We've said this a lot as well on the podcast, that when someone who is succeeding and doing really, really well, comes out and complains about something, you often think that they generally just believe this isn't a very good idea. It's not going very, very well. And if Lando Norris has said this the year after he'd stepped up

when he achieved all those points and he put up a brilliant defence and you can have soonly lost to science in McLaren, you would go, yeah, fair point. He's done really, really well in Formula One, but maybe he thinks it's a problem here. but Logan Sargent has come out and complained after his first year where everyone called for him to lose his job and he was by far one of the slowest drivers on the entire grid

and you just think, are you blaming the equipment at this point because you haven't done very well after the season and you want to put up some kind of defence publicly to make sure that people go, the step up is really difficult because the equipment is so separate that you have to have to change something. I do think the junior formula is going to adapt their technology so quickly and so often. You know, they have to follow Formula One

and will make sense if communication was better that they could develop it almost at the same time, but it's costly. So I think Logan's got a point, but I also do think that those who are absolutely the best at what they do will still just rise to the top and do very well. Your thoughts on this, Harry? Sounds like a you problem, Logan, mate. Get good scrub. Oh, come on.

It is. Get good scrub. Yeah, I agree on the calendar because every year catches me out when we have like a three-month break and then the finale's in Abu Dhabi. It's like, what is the point in that? That's stupid. Literally,

especially when it's been decided. Yeah, that's even worse. So that, that I get, alter the, not the format, because I think the actual

F2 format works is just the amount of races or... Stick a few more races in or group them together. Yeah. Oh yeah. So that I get. But Formula 2 is, Formula 2 is fast.

By that in the book. It's not a slow formula. It's quicker than Indy car. Yeah, it is. Yeah, if you do a, right? Yeah. It's a lap of a, of an actual circuit, the F2 car more often than not,

gets it done fast than an end you go. Yeah, I don't, so I don't really, what do you do? You make them, because obviously the other comparison here is they've got the Super Formula cars in Japan, which are quicker. They're much quicker. They're closer to F1 cars.

Yeah, so you could go down that route, but like you say, like, there needs to be some sort of jump, otherwise what is the point? The other comparison, I suppose, you can make here is that you look at someone like Liam Lawson who dig at what a C's, in Super Formula and a lot of people claim that Super Formula is the second fastest

formula across the world, right? F-1 sits at the top, Super Formula is actually second. And I do wonder, you saw how well he came into Formula One and everyone thought, oh, he's been throwing in, let him just, it's just got to do what he's got to do and not having any expectations. And then he did really well, right? Everyone did really, really well after three quarters of a season in Super Formula, maybe... He might just be a better. He might just be a better driver. Put Logan Sargent in a season in Super Formula and see if he nearly wins it, because That's what Liam Lawson did.

Yeah. I just don't think this isn't a common complaint amongst other drivers who have come up from former two. You referenced Landau Norris. George Russell. Max Verstappen, who didn't do it. He didn't do it. No, he skipped it. It was also still very good, though, wasn't it?

He was too good. He didn't even do it. He was to touch the car. It was better than Logan's sergeant. So, yeah, I just don't think this is a valid argument from Logan. Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure the step up is huge. But that's, for what? one is not a finishing school.

You earn you right there. And I guess he has earned his way, but you can't say, yeah, it just feels like an excuse. You can't just say, well, it wasn't that good this year, but because F2 was slow. It's a bit harder. A bit too hard. Alex Alvin's fine.

Exactly. So, get good scrub. Yeah. The Lawson-Sargent comparison is an interesting one because, as I've mentioned a few times in previous episodes. Their junior career is, their junior careers are so close to one another in terms of the series that they did and the performance they had in each of their series. Not really much to

separate them whatsoever. The one big difference, as has been alluded to here, Logan Sargent went straight to F1. Liam Lawson had that season in Super Formula. So it would be very interesting to know from, I guess from Liam Lawson's perspective, how much he thinks that helped him in the, in the jump to F1. Because as we know, Liam Lawson hit the ground running, pretty much. straight away. I mean, that Zamvort weekend was obviously a tough one, although conditions-wise, it couldn't have been any worse for him. But pretty much from race two onwards, he was where he needed to be. So it'd be, yeah, like I said, it'd be interesting to see how much that helped him. In terms of sergeant's comments, I don't think he's wrong in that the jump from F3 to F2 is far

smaller than the jump from F2 to F1. But as Harry's mentioned, I don't disagree that that's, you know, I don't agree that that's a problem. I think that's absolutely fine because if F1 wants to stand alone as a pinnacle of motorsport, it does have to be a completely unique challenge, which it is right now. And I think F2 are already doing

what they need to to get their drivers ready for F1. The 2024 chassis, as an example, is far more based on ground effect than the 2023, the old one was. So that's a step in the right direction. and having two free practice sessions that the teams need to give to rookies, I think is another thing that they've done,

which is good. And to be honest, I've looked to increase that from two. But I don't think anything more than that needs to happen. I don't think F2 needs to be revolutionized to be closer to F1. And yeah, to your points, we've seen a lot of drivers struggle in the last few years.

Sargent's on that list. But if you were to look at DeVries, Schumacher, Mazabin, Latifi, we have had quite a few rookie drivers struggle in the last, say, five years. But for me, that just highlights the brilliance of what others have been able to do, Oscar Piastri, Lando Norris. So if there were literally no rookies who were doing very well, like two or three years into their careers, I would say, yeah, you might have a point.

But because there have been that successes, there have been those successes, I think it's fine. So yeah, overall, I'd say he's not wrong, but also, I don't think it's a problem. Get good. Scrub. Thank you. I think, you're right. FTO has always been maybe like a couple of years after a major rule change in F1.

So as you say, with this one, the ground effect cars, when we moved to the sort of higher downforce cars in 2017, a couple years later, the F2 cars changed. But even sometimes it's been ahead of the curve. So they moved to the 18 inch wheels. before F-W-D did. So you're preparing drivers already before they get to F-Wton. So, yeah, I don't, rubbish argument. And historically, we've always had drivers

who come into Formula One and have only ever been mediocre and the best rise to the top, right? How many times have we had to say that? That if you are good enough, you'll adapt, you'll learn, you'll grow, you'll develop, you have that raw talent and that raw ability. Not everyone who comes into Formula One

has to be a world champion contender. Some people are going to be better and that's what separates people being great at this sport, to just being mid-table drivers. And that's going to happen. Sorry, Logan Sargent, that you're not a world champion. You're probably ever going to be. And that's because simply, you haven't got the raw talent

to make it as a successful driver like Max Verstappen does. I also think there's an argument to say that the closer F2 is to F1, the closer it gets to it being the only route that drivers can go down to get into F1, which I don't actually think long term is a good thing. Now, we're almost, to be honest, we're almost there anyway, but I think making F2 even closer to F1 would cement that. But actually, I appreciate IndyCar's a good example

where you look at IndyCar drivers and where they've come from. Yes, some have come from Indy Lights, but you've got Indy Lights drivers, you've got former F1 drivers, you've got former Formula E drivers, you've got endurance drivers. Scott McLaughlin's a great example. He comes over from Australian supercars. does a great job in IndyCar. So you've got a real varied background of their drivers,

which we don't have in F1 really. It's just everyone comes up the same route. So I actually think that's an argument as well to keep them distinct enough that it does open the door for Colton Hurtor or someone else who's in a different series to give it a go. I would also like to see more of affiliation with Super Formula,

actually. I do think there's a lot of very talented drivers there is a real test. And you see a lot of the drivers that have been successful previously who do come into Formula One have had a hand in Super Formula at some way. And if they're not in Formula One, they're successful in endurance racing and other feature categories. So I wouldn't be against Formula One unlining itself, almost to have a F2 or Super Formula route into the sport and seeing a slightly more equal footing for those two feeder seasons. All right. Let's change gears to Valtrey Bottas, who has stated he's looking to start

his contract negotiation with stake slash Salba slash Alfao slash Al-AO slash Aldi as early in the season as possible in

2024 but looking ahead to when Aldi officially come in in 26 what are your thoughts on this son man is running for his life he wants that security like this reeks of a guy

who thinks it's not been great recently I am getting a little bit older in terms of the rest of the F1 field. I need to nail something down now. Probably while they're a little

bit insecure. I would be shocked if steak... I was going to say you're going to carry on with your calling him a different name for each week.

Well, we're getting there. What's it this week? If you let me carry on, you've killed him steak. Killed him steak. Yeah, but you just called him steak yet. Call him steak back last time. Yeah, but you just called him steak then.

I know, I'm getting to it. Rewing me pole point. I can't remember what I'm saying now. My point here is, here we go. I'm back to it. I can't imagine they've got any negotiation power for Audi want to do

unless they're sending high-end corporate members into those negotiations to be part of one team. There's no affiliation between Stegetatta who are quite clearly served cold and Audi who are able to come into the sport in another couple of years' time. There's no affiliation between those.

There's no corporate affiliation. They're not sponsors anywhere else. They're not tied together. This is quite simply a stocking filler of a Formula One team that we're seeing. moving through those years. Valtry Bottas, this isn't who you need to be worrying about.

You need to be getting in the good books for Audi in two years' time, not worrying about this neon green brand stealing Formula One team, us. We're the green team. Thank you. Green machine. Green machine. That's us.

It's a solar branding. I'm furious. You're a bit about it. Where are you? That's me having you. Yeah, I think this reeks of a man. who is a bit nervous and wants to nail something down because we've spoken about driver contracts before,

Landon Norris, Charles LeClair, Carlos Sainz, whose contracts in recent years and this year have come available for resigning and they've jumped at the opportunity to put their pen to paper for the same team they're out for multiple years when they don't need to. They're so good, they're such hot property, they're desirable that they can afford to wait.

They can take their time. I think Valtry Bottas is no longer part of that pedestal, is no longer part of that group and he's going, I like my paycheck. I do enjoy racing in Formula One. I don't think any part of this is him going, I'm going to be a world champion if this goes the right way. I think this is a couple more years in the sport that I do nicely.

Thank you very much. I don't want to panic. I literally think that's what he's trying to do. I think he's just trying to sort himself out for the next couple of years before a young superstar turns up and wants to drive somewhere. In the nicest way possible to Valtry Bottas, I don't think he ever was part of that group.

No. I mean, Mussolini's would have treated his contracts differently if he was. There was multiple opportunities for Mercedes to sign him to two or three-year deals. They didn't. They just kept it on a rolling one-year deal. Now, don't go to be wrong, he was good enough to keep getting those one-year deals, but they clearly didn't have the full confidence to go any further beyond that.

And I think that list of who do you negotiate with years ahead of time, that list is fairly small. You know, it's probably about five drivers, about a quarter of the field. and Valtry Botas, I just don't think, is part of that list. Now, fair play to Bottas because, you know, he wants to be in Formula One long term. You can't blame him for that. There's nothing wrong with what he's doing here. But yeah, from Stake and Audi's perspective, there's just no, there's no rush on this.

Botas isn't going anywhere. Let's face it. There aren't any teams further up the grid going, oh, wish Bottas wasn't in that contract. Oh, man. That sounds horrible, but. There are so many quality drivers and quality younger drivers in F1 right now that there just isn't that clamoring for him that there might have been, you know, in his Williams days nearly 10 years ago.

Bartas will keep doing what I believe to be a solid job at Steak. Now that's what they're called. God damn it, that's so annoying. But yeah, I don't think there's any rush from Stake and Aldi's perspectives to do anything about 2020. That's two full seasons. Who knows, who knows what's going to happen between now and then. Yeah, I mean, with all this new branding and the like that they want to put into place as well,

he's really tried to give himself a new image, isn't he? Bottas, last colour is he's now got the completely platinum blonde mullet that he's put in place. Mr. Gold Coast himself, the most Finnish Australian you're ever going to see. And I do think he's really tried to diversify. Maybe he's learned a little bit off Lewis Hamilton in their time together. He's got the gin company, he's got a coffee company. I think he's now part of a cycling group that is now part of a business.

He does wine. I think that he's part of a hockey group. He owns a hockey team. He's really tried to diversify. I think he's trying to use Formula One as that kind of that platform to give him himself those opportunities. Our stake, though, really going to look at Valtrey Bottas and go,

we're all about revolutionising marketing in Formula One, man, which I imagine they all talk because they're cool guys. All Drake. Sure. They're all Drake. and I look like the typical Drake listener. Hot lying steak. Yeah, are they really going along of bringing Valtry Bottas?

Is he really the guy that they look at and go, that's our guy? Don't know. I don't know. And I imagine that Audi will be keeping a very, very close eye on that contract situation for who is available to them in a couple of years' time. Do you think he might be a viable option in a couple of years' time, Harry, given, it's not a new team, but it's a new brand in Formula One term. if there were to be a young,

exciting rookie or a younger driver alongside him, might Bottas be a viable option? He might be a viable option. I think his best option here is the number two in that team because I think Audi will try and go for someone big. So, yeah, there is that. I'm going to send out a search warrant

for Vagri Botas's form. Oh. Last scene, Miami, 2022. Okay. please, please return to to owner. If lost, it found. Because that is the thing

he needs to sort out first. You know, are you right, Ben? Is that him or the team? Is it both? Him. Well, I don't know, because the car's been pretty crap. But yeah, so that is hard. But it's not, he's not had a great year and a half,

I don't think. But even in a crap car, you can see a great driver. But versus Joe is, I guess, is, yeah. But you saw it in Williams with Russell, right? sorting what is with Album. You can see why a car is bad, but a driver is able to pull everything out of it.

And he doesn't at the moment. And I think, yeah, I think that's what he needs to find first and foremost, because he, as you say, Ben, he's perfectly entitled to put his hand up and say, I'm here, guys, don't forget about me. But as you say, Audi, Audi aren't going to rush into this,

or Salba or steak bake. Stata. State Tata. I like State Tata. serve cold. They're not going to rush into this. And I think he needs to deliver some results on track. And that will help his case.

Because, yeah, at the moment, they might be like, well, yeah, he could be an option, but we've got two years yet. Because I haven't got a rush. We're in no rush. I think as well, because they've got a hard deadline,

I don't think they really care about it. Who's the people driving for them? This is a branding exercise for them. And by the time we get to 2026, all sorts happen with contracts. there may be a bigger, better driver available for 2026. And Audi, they've got money. And if they're going to do this properly,

which we think they are, then I feel like they're going to want to invest in it in a big name driver. So just concentrate on the track, Valtrey. I reckon Audi could get a driver in the middle aisle. Move on, Ben. Can I believe. We'll actually go to our final break.

We're going to be playing fact or crap on the other side. Fact or crap. Fact or crap. Or crap. Fact or crap. Fact or crap. Yeah. I like that it starts with or crap.

Yes. Just cut it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. The name of the segment. Or crap, fact or crap. That's better.

Right. We've got three statements that each of us will say whether we think is fact or crap. It is literally as simple as that. And the first one is this. Our favorite team, Alpine. Oh. Oh. Alpine have a better chance of finishing in the top three this season than the bottom three.

Is that fact or crap, Harry? Uh, you have a better chance finishing in the bottom three than the top three. Look at them. Just look at them. Oh, God. I think it's unlikely they would finish in the bottom three, but they ain't finishing in the top three. there's no chance of that

I'm going to say that now and they're going to come back and haunt me this year but we smug about summit oh last race of the season again by one point nice yeah that that's again that's being harsh here but I don't think there's much chance

they would end up in the bottom three but I think there's a greater chance they would versus ending up in the top three so yeah sorry producer cursors just crawling on the floor and what's going on what's going on over that

fact that is a fact Anyway, yeah, that's crap. Sam? I think that if Alping start building a house, the cement they're going to be used is made of crap, because honestly, they got nothing. This is the biggest other crap I've ever heard.

Lather it on, because there's no chance they're building that house all the way to the top three. Because you push it forwards over, ain't it? Like a rubbish. You're just smashing out the analogies today. Honestly, Benz inspired me. It's a guru.

No, this is absolutely rubbish. They've got about six employees. One of them's a dog, one of them's Ben. And I imagine that they haven't got a car. They probably don't know what a tire is. And they probably don't know what year it is. So if they turn up with the 2001 Jordan, I wouldn't be surprised at this point.

Might be better. Give it a go. Yeah, no, absolutely. There's a, what, a 30, 40% chance they finish in the bottom three. There's a 0% chance they make it into the top three. The reason it is grab is because they can only finish fifth and that's the fact.

Is that the boiler? Yep. Hello, Boiler. Yeah, I think it's crap as well. It's, I don't think it's likely they finish in the bottom three, but if you look at who's, you know, has pretty likely to be there, you would say, and maybe stake as well. But then you could see Williams making progress. You could even maybe see Alphateri or whatever they're going to be called this year

making progress if they're a bit closer aligned to that Red Bull, which if you didn't notice was, pretty good last season. So if both of those teams make the progress they would like to, and Alpine don't, then suddenly maybe that eighth place becomes a possibility,

whereas, like you say, Red Bull and Mercedes are probably going to be in the top three, and that just leaves one spot left. Are they going to be better than Ferrari, McLaren, and Nasta Martin? Seems unlikely, so I'll go crap. I'll go crap. Come back in a minute, Ben.

Yeah. Next one. If all goes well, the Shanghai International Circuit will be back on the calendar for 2024. The Shanghai International Circuit is a top 10 circuit in F1. Sam. Ooh. This is a tough one.

I like the Shanghai International Circuit. I'm big fan. I am big fan. Why say more as if you were so trick? Thank you, Kevin. You are just turning into Kevin Malone. That's a bad thing. I'm not going to do that.

Except I eat broccoli. I play the iPhone game the other day, and I did a race around Shanghai. I haven't raced around that for a long time. It's a good little circuit. Delightful. I'm going to say, your basis for your answer.

It's the video. Because I enjoyed it. I'm going to say fact. I think, I'm not saying it careers its way down to a top five spot or anything, but, you know, nine or tenth, I think you can make a very fair debate for it. I think it holds the record for most overtakes of all time in a single grand prix. That back straight is amazing.

mence, the anting, anting, anting, snail corner is well famous. It's still there in the game as well. I love it. Never change, please. That first set of corner complexes is really unique. I really like the way it has that slow curve all around it. You can take multiple lines through it. The weather is often quite a big factor as well.

I think it's good. It's a good track. I'm excited to see the new cars go around it. Harry? Look, if I pull together a top 10, list of it. Are we talking currently on the calendar, right? Current on the calendar, yeah. I don't know whether it would make it, but I'm going to say fact because, like a personal

top ten, but I am going to say fact, just because I think for modern F1, it delivers a good race. Yeah, solid. And there might be, my heart would choose other circuits over Shanghai. But actually, it delivers, the only time it delivered a bad race was the last one we had, race 1,000. The 1,000 race. And it was an app.

Tell me what happened in that race. Nothing. What was the sponsor for that? Is that big gorilla? No, that was just, wasn't that the French GP? No, but that was their trophy. But this was a, like a branding deal. Oh, yes.

Like a go, go ape. That's the monkey bar. Go ape. I used to look at F1. Sorry, this is completely off. I'll go with fact. But when Liberty came in, they did some random things. Do remember 2019 the like weird edits they did of races?

Oh, they need. to bring the dogs in the car. And like the eyes coming out. Yes. There was like, I think I've still got the Alex Alburn driver and the daylight one saved on my phone. You need to bring that out of the same.

Bazing ape. And they did a camouflage Formula One car with it as well for race 1,000. There it is. Pink one. Yes. Anyway, I remember it, but barely. There you go.

I barely remember that. The race itself. Did Botas win it. I thought Ricardo one. I can't remember. That was a good one. It was phenomenal. Yeah.

Fact. Yeah, fact. Sorry. Yeah. I'll close it off by saying fact. Just about. It probably gets in at like nine or ten, I would say. But I'm intrigued to see how these new cars go around the track,

because we don't really know what the new era of F1 is going to look like around that circuit. But I think it probably will work based on. how it did work in the previous era. The last one of our selection on fact or crap today is this. Harry, pre-season testing should not be televised. Fact or crap? Oh, I don't know. Of course, not televised for a long time,

but the last few years it has been. I'll go crap. The problem, look, I, it's, I don't watch testing. I can't lie to you. Can't lie to you guys. I thought you were glued to the screen. All day, every day. No, I don't watch it,

but I can see how it's making it more accessible. And I don't know, there's a part of me that, this is going to sound really old. I used to enjoy when we had testing. You didn't really know what was going on. I was when you got glimpses of a picture would come through or a video would pop up on Twitter, I guess. And you'd like, oh, that's exciting.

And all car looks interesting. Yeah. Oh, that looks like we haven't seen. But now it's, I don't know, the televised bit makes test the whole like start of the testing season a little bit like less special for me. But however, I think it's better for F1 that they do. Because there will be people who will just sit and watch testing. What I can't deal with is some of the horrific banter that we get from the commentary because they just sat there for hours on end. It's a tough job to be fair to him.

I know. But a good lord. Yeah, what would we say for seven to eight hours of not a lot happening? Not a lot, nothing happened. It's testing. I know. They're just running around. They're not racing each other.

Are they on heavy fuel? Don't know what they're doing. Yeah. What does the multicol of paint do? Yeah, so I'll say, I'll say crap because it's not fair to take it away from people, but also I just don't, whatever, I don't need it. I didn't say this with this in mind. but do you remember the whole ordeal about the Spanish shakedown?

That wasn't a pre-season test, but it was because they couldn't call it that because Bahrain had to be the only pre-season test. And everyone in F1 Media was like how it was a shakedown. Sorry, a 10-team shakedown. Was that what they... Absolute. You don't like Jerusalem Bactri on the Williams? That's Ben's Jerusalem, Bacchre on the Williams.

His Roman Empire. That was so stupid. Anger's him. For anyone that I know. And it is annoyed, but he loves it. That was, that was 2020, right? Because it was the first. They had an extra test because it was new cars,

but it wasn't a test. It was a shakeout. Yeah. And they didn't televise it. No. Fact or crap on this one, Sam. I am going to go with fact. Bing it off from the TV screens.

I think it causes unprecedented hysteria on social media when it comes to anything to do with the standings and I hate it. You'll base it on nothing. You don't know what's going on, viewer. And neither do I. Fernando Alonzo Hyped train last year was,

I loved it. Maybe that is fun. But it also just kind of annoys me. I, much like yourself that you spoke about, I love turning up to the race day on season one and going, I know what's going on. I love it. I'm excited.

One car might be amazing. One car might not be. I don't want to know the data. I don't want to know what goes on. I like the mistake. There's a lot of Formula One now that's almost been brought into the modern world where it's so accessible, which is great. But I don't want it to go so far that it's not the... I remember the childhood excitement of seeing the cars come out of the garage for the first time of the first race as a kid and being like, here we go.

New season. I'm really excited. And now it's kind of like, like you said, shakedown happened. Okay. Didn't get to see that, but it wasn't really a test or was it. And then we go to Bahrain and then I can watch Formula One endlessly. It's so immediately there that I felt like I knew a lot. before we even got into the season.

And there's a little bit of me that enjoys the anticipation and the excitement and they're not going. Because I'm like you. I don't watch it. I might watch a little bit of a highlight thing online, but I don't watch it. And a lot of it is to keep the excitement of what's going on. Have to pay more attention how we do this bloody podcast.

Have to be informed. But sorry about that. It's testing, isn't it? It doesn't matter what happens in testing. No, literally doesn't matter. It could all be irrelevant. So I'm going to say stop airing it. I don't care if you want to give it to the people.

I'm taking it away. Taking it away. To me, I watch a little bit of testing. And I'm still going with a fact on this because of the reasons you gave, I think it does take away the excitement of that first weekend of the year, particularly because it's at the same track as well. Same track. Yeah.

But I feel like it does take away a little bit of the excitement of that. And honestly, there are just too many people that try and make preseason testing something that it isn't. Like people, oh, well, this isn't very exciting. No, of course it's not. It's testing you moron. Is it supposed to be? You don't go watch a training football match and go,

well, this isn't the finale of the Champions League. No, because they're practicing. And in nearly every other sport, this sort of thing isn't televised for that reason. But for whatever reason in F1 it is, and people just get unrealistic expectations about what it's supposed to be. You're right. You get commentary board.

Now, they're mind not knowing what to say because there's not a lot to say after a certain point. There is a lot of hours in the day to fill. If you are doing three-day or four-day tests, that's like, you know, 32 hours worth of content that you need to fill. Fracking. When, as you've already referenced, you don't really know what's going on. And, I mean, this is incredibly sad, but I did enjoy the suspense and the excitement of not know, like keeping up to date with text commentary of what was going on and testing,

I found more exciting than watching it. Agree. Hard agree. There's a lot. Your mind does a lot of them. It's always like reading a book. Your mind does a lot of the imagery. And sometimes when you read the book and then you watch the film of that book,

the book's better because you've done a lot of the creating of the drama and what's going on. And the film fails to meet those standards, much like watching testing over reading it and imagining what's going on. I'm going to go a fact on that one. That was a, we sound real old. Real grumpy, yeah. Grumpy old men.

I also, maybe teams should test a track of their choice and not all together, just off camera. It's just getting a lot of amount of time. So I guess you'll cost, but I was going to say, I don't think it should be the barring. I disagree with the barring choice, yeah. Make it a difference.

I get, make it close to, well, the first race is if you can do it close to, in terms of dates, but it's, you know, you're sort of spoiling it a bit. Castle Coombe. Yes. Let's do it at Castle Coon.

To be fair, I think it should be done at a track that isn't on the calendar. And also doesn't make sense to fly 80% of the teams out of the UK or around that area all the way to the Middle East just going to then do the test to then run it on the same race in day one. I don't mind that point if they're, you know, testing and then it's you go into the race weekend. That kind of makes sense. But although there is still like a week or so, isn't there? Yeah, sit around for us. They have to sit around and do nothing.

but yeah, do a different track. Anyway, we've gone on too long. Waffling on. Yeah. So get us out of there, then, man. Join the Discord, link to the description. We are still very active, loads of people chatting. And I'm going to do it.

We had the end of the Discord celebrations for the league that they run. And I said that I would shout out the winner as their prize for winning the league. So the winner with 418 points is a driver called. dollar 50 of course great well done dollar 50 great name how did 63 cents do I'm not in the top 20

I'm afraid bank exchange rate isn't good um F luchador got three to two points in second and big sheck it was actually just called shek but I got 301 points in third place well done well done to the league

and in the constructors Williams Williams on the constructors with brown 13 dollar 50 driving there and alfa tarry came second with luci and choco drizzle. How many seasons have they done? I think this is the end of the first season. Oh, right. So we go again. We go, they're doing those, I think they're doing a chill winter league.

And Di Amad de Norva. Italian over it. Nice. If you want to join it, though, I think they've got openings or they're interesting and running certain things. So getting a good score, you can find it in the gaming channel that we've got there. The community's really growing, which is lovely. Patreon is available two episodes extra every month. Everything on the Razab free.

And you get things like beer with breaking and discount on your merchandise and things like that, which is really, really cool. The latest bit with breaking. Not out yet. but a sensational one. I give you three words to describe it. Would you rather? Good great game. Can I just,

it's a good game if you play it right. And we did. Can we, before we, can we shout out the blind? Yeah, but folks, if you don't watch your YouTube, Ben has got a late breaking blind to cover his window. Look at that. It used to shower him in holy light, of course, as you may remember, he is now showered in late breaking goodness. and it is maybe the best blind I've ever seen.

A late breaking shower. That's the very top tier of Patreon if you'd like one of those. Thanks for listening. We're going to be back again. Midweek as always. We love you and we're going to leave you. In the meantime, I've been Sam your Sage.

I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the sports social podcast network.