The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Hamilton wins as Ferraris collide! | 2020 Styrian GP Review | Episode 58

Episode Date: July 12, 2020

The boys break down all the talking points from the Styrian GP, as Lewis Hamilton wins, the two Ferraris collide, and Lando Norris delivers another stunning final lap...Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome. This is the late breaking Formula One podcast. And this is our review of the Sterian Grand Prix Race 2 on the 2020 season. Samuel Sage and Harry Eve joining me. Guys, maybe not the barnstormer that it was last week,

but it had a thrilling finale nonetheless. Yeah, I mean, when you look at last week's Grand Prix, which is one of the craziest we've had in a dry condition for a long time, it's hard to come back the week later at the same Grand Prix and go, it's going to be as good. It was a good Grand Prix this time around, nowhere near the excitement of the last time, but there's still a lot to discuss,

and that is exactly what we're about to do, so make sure you are fully tuned in. Yeah, I mean, Sterea had a lot to live up to from Austria. they are the same place, obviously. But yeah, it was going to be tough to top last week. But there was still some interesting bits. And Lando Norris, the last lap specialist. Yeah, we were saying how he just doesn't turn up until the last lap.

That's how Lando Norris rolls. Yeah, like you say, very impressive final lap from him. And we will get on to the midfield chaos later in the podcast. We'll also be looking at Ferrari. Their race lasted all but three corners, with Vettel and Leclair making up two of the three. the three retirements from the race. We'll have a quick look at qualifying on Saturday.

Of course, that brought rain, and it mixed up the grid somewhat. We'll be discussing who impressed us and who certainly didn't. But first of all, let's get into Mercedes versus Red Bull because normal service to a degree was resumed. Hamilton and Bottas finishing one and two respectively with the Red Bull drivers finishing three and four just around out the top ten as well. It was Norris and Fifth, Perez, Stroll, Ricardo, Sines, and Kaviat, the point scorers today. I'll start with you, Harry, on this.

What do you think of Mercedes? Is this a case of them getting into the rhythm of it? And do you see them really pushing their advantage on from here? They obviously were impressive and clearly the quicker car today between them and the Red Bull. But it wasn't potentially as dominant as I expected. I know BOTAS was kind of out of position. but he didn't start catching Vastappen until quite late on into that stint, and we thought he would close, I thought he would close in quite quickly.

Yeah, they're clearly the favourites, but I think Vostappan and Red Bull can still be in the mix. Depends how well Red Bull can develop that car. We know that they tend to develop the car as the year goes on, and maybe that's the case again this year. So, yeah, it's a slightly ominous performance from Merck, but, you know, we saw last week how quickly things can go wrong in F1. It doesn't matter if you've got a dominant or really quick car.

We can all go wrong really quickly. So, yeah, a little bit worried for the rest of the season, but I think it'll be fine. I think Red Bull and Vestappen can still throw in some race victories at some point this year. And, you know, especially moving on to Hungary where they were so strong last year, too. So fingers crossed, it's not all Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes. Mercedes, or Mercedes if I was bored of Rester. Which you're not, but thank you anyway.

Sam, moving on to you. Lewis Hamilton, brilliant performance this weekend. Just focusing on the race for the moment. Were you ever in any doubt that the victory was going to be his? I always have this horrid feeling, maybe through past experience. When the camera suddenly pangs to the race leader, after we haven't seen them for about 15 laps, you think, oh no. Are they going slowly? Is the camera deceiving my eyes? Are they traveling at 15 miles an hour like I would around an aspect of car park? No, it was fine. Honestly, I think I was a little nervous from Mercedes after last week when they had so many issues and it kind of unraveled a little bit towards the end of the Grand Prix. But you look at the last, what, five years now, five, six years from Mercedes. There was no real doubt. You'd have to be a really, really paranoid person to think this is going to go badly for the most successful continuous team in Formula One history now. I mean, Lewis Hamilton was at his very best all weekend.

It was a dominant, dominant performance. Bottas starts slightly out of position. I wasn't to impress with how he drove, but he managed to put it back just at the end there to give the same as a result that that car definitely deserves. Those engineers, those strategists are a league ahead at the moment. And it's showing, once again, I think we're going to see across the whole season

that Machetes is going to absolutely dominate. And I would not be surprised coming in this season to have another Constructed Championship going. that way. Yeah, and I think Hamilton, after the disappointment of that first race, was really on form and he was very focused this weekend. And I mean, after the first pit stop, Vestappen came in, I didn't really have any doubt that Mercedes had that in the bag. Yeah, he was very impressive. And Hamilton's attitude towards the race, you could tell that he wasn't impressed by last weekend, how that went. He thought that the racing incident, perhaps the penalty was a bit harsh, but he wasn't.

He wasn't particularly, he wasn't petty about it. He kind of got on with it and said that he respected the steward's decisions. But you could tell from that post-raise interview last Sunday that his intentions were already heading to this weekend. And I know a lot was made of him staying at the track throughout the week. He didn't break any protocol in terms of leaving the country or even leaving the circuit. He was there, I believe, Monday and Wednesday with his engineers trying to work out what went wrong last weekend. end. And that hard work in that dedication, it paid off for him. And yeah, I had very little doubt. And if he was needed to push a bit more in the second half of the race, I have no doubt that he would have done.

The gap's pretty much stabilized late on in the Grand Prix. He did have a few attempts at fastest lap. I don't really hold it against him that he didn't get it, considering the guys such as Carlos Sines and Max Verstappen did go on to fresh soft tires and Hamilton's trying to achieve it on old mediums. but yeah, that car is very good. We know Lewis Hamilton's very good. And he avoided what couldn't happen, which was Bottas getting a commanding lead after two rounds. He needed a solid result here to just keep him in check. I think Bottas might have a lead of about three points heading out of the Grand Prix,

which is absolutely fine at this stage of the Grand Prix of the season, I should say. If it was a bit more than that, then maybe Hamilton has to start making some moves that he doesn't want to. But yeah, brilliant performance. I don't think anyone can doubt it. I think it's six points, but I mean, regardless, 25 to 18, if they come one two again in Hungary and Hamilton leads Bottas across the line, Hamilton walks away after the third race, one point in the league. So yeah, there's absolutely nothing between them, essentially one finish. It's going to be incredibly close, I think. Yeah, sorry, if we've got, Bottas did manage to get second place at the end instead of Max Verstappen. And moving on to that,

Sam, you said you weren't overly impressed by Valtrey Bossas. He did eventually claim P2, which he saw as damage limitation. Do you think this was the reasonably best result he could have got from the weekend? Last week when we recorded our podcast over the review of the Austrian Grand Prix, not the Skaria Grand Prix, Ben, you asked the question of, you know, was I impressed with Bottas how he led the race? And I said, no, I wasn't impressed because when you turn up to this week and Hamilton leads the race as he did. No one came even remotely close. At one point, Hamilton was 18 seconds clear of

Bottas. That's how you impress someone leading the race. That's how you dominate from leading the race. Now, Bottas starting a place in front of where Hamilton started the week before. Took him a little while to get past science. He then did it. Good overtake, good pass, nice and clean and easy. And then he was behind Vastappan for about 55 to 65 laps. And then eventually he catches up to Vastappen, who has got four. front wing damage at that point. The Staffan manages to go all the way around the outside on 40 lap old tires. Bottas has got 10 lap newer tires at that point in a car that is better.

And he's beaten again around the outside of the corner. That is a difficult move to pull off. The Staffan wowed me. He is outperforming that Red Bull car. Bottas, on the other hand, I think he was mediocre at best. Hamilton managed to cruise up to Bottas and they were fighting within a few tents to the Holborn Prix last weekend. this weekend, Bottas hasn't even got a remotely close argument to Hamilton.

It was a dominant performance. Bottas was poor, considering the equipment he's got, and how strong a lot of people thought he was last weekend. I expected more. I expected there to be a fight for the league a lot earlier on. He wasn't ever really catching him. It was only when Bostaffan had that damage that the gap really started to come down quickly. Stapham drove his sock, you know, drove the socks off of that car.

He ran the neck out of it, and I think Bottas was just a little bit sluggish. And I hope that we see the first race from Bottas, when we go to Hungary next weekend, because otherwise, I'm nervous that Red Bull could once again get very close to Bottas and Hamilton could walk off with it. I mean, you use the word poor there, Sam. Harry, would you agree with that use of word? Or would you say he was slightly better than that?

I think it was slightly better than poor, but his result was kind of sealed by qualifying on Saturday, really. He didn't perform particularly well on that. got out qualified by Signs and Vestappen when realistically, I think he probably should have been on the front row with Hamilton. That's where that car belongs at the moment.

So, yeah, and yeah, he did take a while to get past a couple of cars. And I agree with Sam on the fact that he shouldn't, but Vestappen should not have had any chance of coming back around the outside, around the outside of him as on, not even down the inside. Yeah, so I don't know, maybe it's a conservative approach

just wants to pick up more points. And he does still emerge as the championship leader after two rounds, which I guess he can't complain with. But yeah, obviously the result he would have wanted, it would have been another win. But that, as I said, I think that was sealed, that fate was sealed on Saturday after qualifying P4. I think there was every chance.

Hamilton then had the ability to just run off into the distance. Not to say the Bottas would have been able to challenge him, but it made things even, not even easier. one more trying to say. It made Hamilton's life easier. That's fun. Anyway. Yeah, so not poor, slightly better than poor, average.

Yeah, I think average is probably closer to what I would say because despite his shortcomings, he still did finish second. And I know that Mercedes should be finishing one, two. Did he make it a little bit harder for himself than he needed to? I'd say yes, but ultimately I personally don't really care if he overtakes for Stappan on lap 40 or if he overtakes him with three to go, he got the result that was really what he could achieve at that point. I don't think there was any chance he was going to beat Hamilton.

So I don't care how he beats for Stapp. And if he beats him with an overtake after five laps or 15 laps or 30 laps, as long as he gets the job done, that that's a tick in the box. Yeah, I think he was all right. Yeah, I think you're right in what you say, that his fate was kind of sealed in qualifying. Unfortunately, with Valtrey Bottas, I feel as if when Lewis Hamilton gets second or third on the grid or fourth on the grid, I always feel as if there is at least the chance he can make something happen, even if it is his teammate who starts first. We saw that last time out, obviously. Hamilton didn't win the race, but there was every chance that he could have done. He at least asked the questions of Bottas. When Bottas doesn't start ahead of Hamilton, I already immediately believe it's going to take a mechanical failure, which I've very rare when it comes to Mercedes or something untoward happening to Hamilton for that

to be changed. I don't ever really have a lot of confidence in Bottas making the move on track ahead of, ahead of Hamilton. Yeah, I don't know. When it comes to the overtake, you know, Vestappan, fair play to him. That was a very bold move around the outside on tires that were not favourable. I think what Bottas needs to do, and we've complained about him maybe not being clinical enough before. I just don't think he stays in the slipstream of the cars for long enough. I don't know if this is something you guys picked up on as well, but when he was in the snap on slipstream,

especially the first time, the second time was slightly better. He seems to pull out way too early to the left hand side or whatever side, really, and doesn't take advantage of that slip stream. We saw McSumacher in the F2 races. He was very, very good at it, where he literally moved out of the way the car slipstream at the last possible second and it gave him every advantage possible going into turn four. Botas definitely the first time he pulled out to the left straight away and not only does that decrease his speed because you're not in the slip stream. It also just announces

your intentions to the drive you're trying to overtake way too early. It gives them too much time to prepare. So I feel as if that's something he needs to work on. But, you know, fair play. He got the move done and he's come away with second and like we say he does still have the championship lead and it could have been a lot worse starting from fourth place a McLaren in front the stappen had the potential to be too far ahead he at least did what he said in his post race interview he did limit the damage and come away with solid points all right so with that in mind I don't think Bottas is going to be winning driver the day for Sam so with that in mind Sam who's it going to be?

Right, just to clear this up, because the whole world thinks I hate Botas. I don't hate Botas. I have such high expectations for Botas that I am just a little disappointed sometimes, okay? He's brilliant, he's lovely, he's a lovely guy, and I admire his skill and talent. I just want a bit more from him, that's all. Driver of the day, though, Yang, unfortunately, it's not going to be Bottas. For me, it comes down to two drivers, and that is, Sorry, Harry, are you just, are you angry at me?

Is there something going on there? How angry? He can't talk. He can't talk and is apparently tearing his room apart. Driver of the day comes down from the two drivers. Actually, one of them got a penalty at the start. One of them started way too far back for the ability of that car. And that is the two that came together right at the end on the final corner for a, almost

a drag, a drag race to the line. And that is Norris and Checo Perez. Perez, in qualifying was not great. He should have done. done better than that, but that maybe looks upon him favourably for the race with how he cut through the field, you know, essentially got all the way through the field, all the up to Albon, and then the reason why I'm not going to pick him is because of that fight with Albon, it didn't come off the way he wanted. If he could have pulled that overtake off, I'd have been

mightily chuffed for him, very impressed with the ability of Perez. I mean, that car looks great. I think if they get a couple of solid results, that car can look really, really strong. And I think arguably they do have the best of the rest car. I think, maybe it's their second driver letting them down a little bit and their qualified performances letting them down a little bit. But it looks good and I'm excited for where racing point are going. But for the second racing a row, my driver's day is Lando lap 72 Norris. I mean, the guy can can fly, can he? I mean, he started ninth after a grid penalty. He had a bit of an average general right race and then he came alive. He started getting the results going his way. He picked

up the speed. The tires fell into his grasp. He's great on older tires, it would seem. Strull and Ricardo had an awkwardness in turn three on lap, was it 70 of 71, something like that, but they both got off the track. He's boxed in. He gets a move done. Then gets past Lance Strull brilliantly as well. And then right at the death, and a really tricky part of the track gets past an absolutely struggling Checo Perez. And, okay, they weren't the most difficult overtakes in the world to make, but it's his persistence. It's his ability to keep going. It's his enthusiasm and passion for what's going on at the moment. He's driving that McLaren team up,

and you look at the driver he's directly against in Carlos Sites. The man that is going to Ferrari, considered to be one of the best seats in Formula One. I'm not sure I'd say that right now. And he's beating him comfortably. That's two races in a row now where I don't think science is like a single word to say against Norris because I think Norris has just outperformed him comfortably

when it comes to race form. Yeah, for me, Lando Norris, absolutely fantastic. That's a third and fifth place for a Macquarie. Claring driver, brilliant, brilliant result. It's great to see them back. And I'm so happy that Norris is shining because he had a tough season last season with a few reliability issues. And now he gets the chance to really show what his make-off. So for me, again, driver of the day is Mr. Lander Norris.

Harry, pray tell us. See you back. I am back. Sorry, my dog was barking. Sorry about that, folks. He was outside. We thought you were just too angry to respond to. to respond to Sam's

Just assuming about Sam's hate for Botas. Oh, leave it! Well, moving on from Sam's obvious amount of detestment towards Bottas. Harry, who's your driver of the day? Is it last lap, Lando? He is

definitely a contender. Apart from Hamilton and for Stappan, I guess, all the other people that shone on a Saturday didn't shine quite so hard on Sunday and the ones that did you know not so good on Saturday

kind of shone through so you know if Russell had held his nerve on the first couple of laps and not falling off the track he could have been up there I think but we're going to go by the race alone Norris yep

I'll give it to Perez I know he had that clumsy incident kind of with Albon at the end but he definitely made the most of that car which maybe just doesn't go well in the wet as it does in the dry. But it's clearly a good car. And he made the most of it.

He made more of it than his teammate did, despite the fact he started behind a stroll. So, yeah, I'll go with Perez. Also, obviously, you can't fault Hamilton. He's got to be another contender for that, for this prize as well, I'd say. But I shall go for Czechos Perez. Yeah, I think both of those are fair.

And they would make up my top three with Hamilton on the day. I was fully set to give this to Sergio Perez as well. I think he was sensational, cut through the field, started 17th was as high as fifth at one point, should really, well, at least challenged for fourth, that collision with Alex Albon, not only means that he didn't get that spot, but he also fell back one spot as well.

And it's because of that, that I'm not going to give it to him, despite his impressive pace. Like you say, it was kind of aided by the fact that his qualifying performance yesterday was relatively poor and he had to overtake the guys in front. But as the rules of this driver of the day suggest, it is on the day and the day alone. I'm going to go with Lewis Hamilton.

I just can't fault him today. Yeah, like so, I was ready to give it to Sergio Perez. He put together a great performance, but because of that penultimate lap crash with Albon, I can't give it to him, and I'm going to go for Lewis Hamilton, faultless performance from him. Well, there you go.

Three different drivers of the day. It would be lovely to hear what your driving the day is, of course, let us know on Twitter at El Breaking. Please do. I think it needs to do. Sorry, go on. I thought, I was just going to say, I think it needs to be given to the person who's controlling the robotic podium givers.

They're my favourite drivers today. I've heard that's Romang Grosion. It's why they can't get anywhere near the podium? Actually, if it was Romang Grosjean controlling, it would just go from the right-hand side of the screen all the way to the left-hand side of the screen because it's brakes on fail. It wouldn't stop. slow down.

Collide into turn one. Worst driver of the day. Sam, who have you got for this one? See, it's hard, isn't it, to say anyone other than Scholar Club, but I mean, he was only in the race for three laps. I am going to talk quickly about that, because that move on his veteran four-time

world champion teammate was one of the clumsiest moves I think we've seen from a race winner in a very long time. What an embarrassing moment from the prodigal child of Ferrari. He's put his hands up and he's a big of his rod doing already, which, you know, that's what I like to see. It shows maturity out of the car. It's just a shame there wasn't some more maturity in patience within the car because it was bloody poor. He ruined their entire weekend.

All that effort made by the engineers, the developments made, the upgrades that they'd race to get to that track as soon as possible. Ruined, pointless. It's hard to look past him. which is a real shame. So, yeah, I think Charlotte Clare gets it. There are another bad options as well. You know, the Hars guys are pretty poor. Alpha and Mayo weren't great.

All Ferrari linked, which is maybe something we need to look more into in another video. But everyone else that finished in the top 10 had a pretty great race. I mean, I'm so happy that we're seeing something in big field drivers really challenging further up the field. And they deserve that exposure. So for me, yeah, all of Ferrari, Charlotte Clare leads. that the way there for worst driver the day. All right. Charles Leclair gets one vote

in that respect. Harry, who's your worst driver of the day? I'm going to go for the only person who I didn't think in the top ten he had a good race, I think. Alex Albon he was pretty... I know he started further down, but he didn't have a good quality yesterday.

He made a mistake on his final lap, I think. But even so, he should have been closer to the front. And then today he was just pretty underwhelming. And, you know, if Vestappan can be in amongst it with a Mercedes, Albon shouldn't be. You know, I'm not saying he's going to be as quick as Vestappen, but he should at least be nearer to the Mercedes, not to nearer to the pink Mercedes.

Shouldn't be having to defend from Perez, to be honest. So, yeah, a bit underwhelming, especially considering he looked pretty hot last weekend. So, yeah, Alex Albon for me. Sorry, mate. Can I just jump pick on that? because I actually forgot that Albon was in the race. That's how poor I think he was. I think we might, if this form carries on,

he needs to do a little bit of a chat around Albon and that second driver seat because it's not going well for Red Bull second drivers at the moment. And I'm a little bit disappointed with his form of the last few races, but that's for another time. I'm also going to go with Alex Albin, actually. And I can't argue against Shell-Laclair, to be perfectly honest.

but it was a relatively anonymous race for him. And I really like Alex, but his performances just aren't up to scratch. And one of the main reasons that Pierre Gasly was dropped from Red Bull is because Max Verstappen was finding himself in situations where, and you rightly say, he doesn't need to be, they don't need their second driver to be winning races, but they just need their second driver to be in positions where Max Verstappen is not caught out on strategy. They need two drivers to go up against two drivers. And today, Max Verstappen was left offender for himself against Bottas and Hamilton. What could he have done? And ultimately, a two-four turned into a three-four because Albon, after about 20 or 25 laps, is already in a position where he is not going to affect to the front runners.

That's just not good enough. And that's why Pierre Gasly was dropped. Think of Hungary last year. Pierre Gansley was not in a position to affect the strategy of Lewis Hamilton, who therefore could take that extra pit stop, which won in the race? And this is another example of that. I don't know whether today, you know, Mercedes were very good. I don't know whether Album being in the scenario directly would have changed a lot,

but at least asks the questions of Mercedes. You know, Bottas was allowed to run 10 laps longer because when he came out, he's still miles clear of Alex album. And he has to get better. Qualifying, rightly, as you rightly say, Saturday was not great for him. He seemed to pull it together somewhat in Q3, but Q2 and Q1, he was a long way off the pace. And he had a few hairy moments with even getting to Q3.

But yeah, just focusing on the race itself, he was not very quick. The one bright spark from him was that he was able to fend off Perez. But Peres started 17th. He shouldn't have been a factor in Albin's race. Really disappointed. And I think you're right, Sam. I think they really need to sort out this number two driver spot.

Whether it's Albon that does it or not, who knows? But based on the last few races and just to touch on last weekend as well, I thought Albon was all right. But that safety car brought him back into play. And the same applies for Brazil as well. You know, we can discuss Albin being in positions for podiums in Brazil and Austria last week, where Gazley was not in a position to get podiums last year. But to be perfectly honest, Album wouldn't have had any chance in hell at the podium if it wasn't for a safety car at both of those races.

So I think he needs to perform. He needs to be in with a shout at the podium in a race that isn't affected by a safety car that's affected by pure pace alone. I also want to just bring up the question that there is a trend forming where every time Albon comes near to wheel to wheel action, especially near that top four or five positioning, he ends up having contact with someone. Now, I know it's not necessarily always his fault, but there is a corresponding factor here. You know, Perez cut through the whole field overtakes people left, right and center. Not a single one has contact with him, brilliant wheel to wheel racing the whole way through. He comes up against Albon. there's contact.

The same as the week before. Hamilton races the whole way through, no contact. Albon comes along. There's contact. Brazil, last season, as you've just mentioned. The drivers around him, the whole way through the race.

No issue at all. He comes up against Hamilton. There's contact. It's just, it's not always his fault, but at the same time, I don't feel like he's doing all he can to maximize the opportunities

and prevent there being any damage caused to either vehicle. He needs to sort something out because I can only agree that they're raised against him from other people who are at fault. He can't just be that unlucky all the time. There needs to be something else that he's not doing. Otherwise, he should be maximising these positions. I don't feel like he is.

And if it's another poor season for that second driver seat, Red Bull needs to turn something around because they will never challenge Mercedes, even if those cars are equal for a Constructors' Championship, because if Hamilton and Bottas score second and third every single race and the staff of wings every single race, they're still going to win the constructors. So I need to see more from that second driver seat. It's not really good enough at the moment. And we'll see how Albon gets on in the next few races, of course.

Ferrari fans might want to shut their ears for the next 10 minutes, I'm afraid, because we are going to move on to what was a disastrous race for them. I think we can all agree that last weekend, despite that they didn't have the pace, they were able to at least salvage a decent result with LeClair finishing P2 and Vettel, after an incident did at least come home for one point. This time around, with upgrades, rushed onto the car, they didn't do much better. One of their cars didn't make Q3 for the second consecutive weekend.

And in the race itself, they lasted all of about one lap. Leclair did eventually go back out, but he only lasted about three laps in the end. No points whatsoever. Sam, pretty disastrous. Where do Ferrari go from here? I can't remember the last time we've seen a team fall apart like this. How has every other team seem to progress throughout this winter and COVID break? Every other team has solidified in what they achieved last season, probably apart from

Haas, I would say, have come into this new season and their car seems to be improved. They seem to be more competitive. And yet Ferrari, the team that earn the most money from the sport, the team that have the most money coming in from sponsorships, the team that have the most money after points are giving out regardless, and the team that spend the most money in the sport, how are they languishing so badly towards the bottom of this point's table? They are, you know, struggling in the midfield. And they can't even beat a lot of the midfield teams now

that have got such a smaller bucket and drivers with such a little experience in comparison to the likes of Vettel. And now LeCleur, who is a race winner, Ferrari are crumbling. And I think there needs to almost be like what McLaren have done, a total strip back, change absolutely. everything, refresh things and build it from the ground up. And if that means someone like Bonotto has to step down and they need to bring someone completely different, I'm not against that. And you

know what, Ferrari? Maybe I get that your passion, I get that you love that you're from Italy, but maybe not just hiring Italian people to run your team and look at the whole pool of strategists, engineers, people that have got experience within the sport, because I think you're limiting yourself. You seem to always pick from the same roster of people and it is not working for you. You're not growing. You're not going anywhere and you are falling further and further and further back from Mercedes and Red Bull

who have continued to progress throughout the last era of Formula One. And after accusations of cheating throughout last year and a little quiet word by the FIA in the winter, you seem to be nowhere and it's a little bit embarrassing for a team that spends as much money as they do and has as much resource as they do

to be struggling this much. I wouldn't be surprised if we see total shakeup at the top levels for Ferrari very soon if they have a couple of poorer races like they've had this current season. Yeah, and I don't know about the point on the Italians versus international. Obviously, the Italians know a lot about motorsport, but just to press on the point, really, Ferrari's most successful era, masterminded by Jean-Tot, Ross Braun and Rory Byrne. So, who knows, maybe there is something in that. And we will move on to Bonotto and whether his position is in doubt in a little bit. Harry, terrible weekend for Ferrari. Do they just need to hope for

the absolute best with the rest of these upgrades coming next week? Yeah, I mean, the incident in itself, you know, Sam said it already, it was clumsy from LeClaire's perspective, but they lost an entire race worth of data for these new upgrades. So now they've got to wait another week before they really know if it's going to help them in the race. So, yeah, it's just double-discipline. I don't think the upgrades looked like they were going to send them straight to the front anyway. It weren't particularly great in qualifying. Yeah, it's almost like maybe right off this year. But then next year's car is going to be pretty similar anyway.

So they're just got to keep developing it, I guess, and just maybe hope for some more crazy races because they're not going to get to the front on outright pace at the moment, it seems. Yeah. I mean, I know you'll joke about Ferrari, but it's Ferrari. They still should be at the front. We want to see them at the front fighting. It's where they belong. And it's kind of becoming like they were pre-Schumacher era.

Yeah, they were just breaking down, didn't have a quick car. Not good times for the Italian team. No, not good at all. And, yeah, I think more than anything, it's the fact that they rush these upgrades. and yeah, they weren't able to test them whatsoever in race conditions, even if Leclair and Vettel had come together on lap one, but it had resulted in absolutely no damage for either car, even if they were half a minute away from everyone else.

That still gives them a combined 140 laps to try and work out what's going right with these new upgrades, what still needs to be improved, have they worked? But essentially that's just been delayed by a week, and they're going to have to work that out in Hungary. I'd like to see what they're going to bring at Hungary. I'm not overly optimistic that this is going to be a game changer, but I think we at least need to give them a week to see what that can do,

because even if it isn't the immediate spark that gets them up with even Red Bull, let alone Mercedes, as long as it's them heading in the right direction, that gives them something to work with. We know that they completely radicalize their card that they are going for, something completely different to what they had in Barcelona. They understood at that point that the car just would not be able to be developed down the right path for them. And yeah, the fact that next year's cars are basically going to be this year's cars is a massive effect. So as long as they're going down the right path, that gives them something to work with.

It is very worrying. And the incident itself was clumsy. We praised Leclair last week because he, he made something of nothing. You know, that car was not supposed to be second place, and yet he managed to drag it all the way there. And they needed a similar result this week. Again, damage limitation,

and they weren't able to, they weren't able to do that. Even if they'd walked away with, even eighth and ninth, that's something. And yeah, now they're looking at Racing Point, who were able to cut through the field at ease, it seems.

Renno put together a better race, at least. Ocon obviously was premature, but Ricardo put together a good race. Norris and signs look pretty decent. So they can't afford to lose too many points to these guys. Teams that were accustomed to see them beating. But you don't have a whole lot of confidence in them at the moment. But let's see what happens next week.

Harry, what's your thoughts on Bonotto? Do they need to consider his position? Yeah, I think that could well happen. We've seen how, you know, Avriva Bény got kicked, Stefano Domenicali, and I don't think he even deserved to go at that point. Yeah, I think it could well be. And, you know, Benoso is, he's an engine man. That's where he came from.

And maybe just leading a team is not for him. He did, well, yeah, we weren't talking about the engines on here. But, you know, the engines were strong, whether that's legally or not. but maybe he's just not cut out to be a team leader. You know, in the past couple of years where he's led Ferrari, it's not been fantastic. They picked up a couple of wins last year, but they weren't championship challenging,

and this is even worse. Yeah, it's difficult because sometimes just lopping off, lopping off the head of the chicken, to be bit disgusting. Doesn't make it any better. But it's, yeah, something needs to change in Ferrari. and who are they to replace them with, I don't know. And like Sam says, maybe they need to look outside the Italian pool of talent.

I mean, they've got Jacques Clear in Ferrari. You know, he's been Williams and BAR and stuff and Mercedes. But yeah, maybe they just need to invest outside. I saw Mark Weber's comments about they should be based in England. I mean, that's not realistic. But, yeah, just expand their hurried. horizon slightly because, yeah, they did very well when they had a Frenchman in charge and some British engineers behind them. So, yeah, I don't, I don't think Mattia will be fired, but they'll

definitely be looking at it. Yeah. And I don't, yeah, I don't think he should be fired just for the sake of it. And this is something I'm fairly critical of in all sports, actually, where something's not going right and immediately, you know, you just fire the top guy and you imagine everything will go back to normal and you'll improve. Sometimes it works that way. Sometimes it doesn't. You know, sometimes the problems run a lot deeper than just one person at the top of the organization. Not to say I think he should or shouldn't be fired, but they should definitely look into it before making a rash decision. You know, there's a reason they appointed him in the first place. You know, maybe that's not been materialized, but there is a reason they put him there.

and they just need to find out whether the goals that they have within the team are achievable with him at the helm. I do like Bonotto. And I have always advocated for him. I think it was the right decision to put him in that spot. As soon as the news was out that Areva Benei was in trouble, the first name I went for was Bonotto. And that move away from a, I don't want to say a marketing guy, but Areva Benei has much more

of a commercial and management background, whereas Bonotto, of course, has been in the trenches for years, and he's become embedded into that Ferrari team. And I thought someone in his role, or someone like him was the right way to go. It's not working at the moment. It doesn't necessarily mean it can't work long term. Sam, do you think it can work with him? Do you think that they need to maybe go back down the Areva-Bernet route? See, the thing is, and this is why I spoke about opening their pool of talent a little wider. It's not because Italians can't do it. It's just at Ferrari currently, and this is where

I think the real issue lies, the culture is toxic. It is a negative, blame-related culture. The Vettel handing of that relationship was terrible. There's an open fall out there in the public eye. That's not gone well. And you've now ruined relationships with a

four-time world champion. A Vessel no longer cares whether you do well or don't do well. He just walks to look for himself. You've got a young, incredibly talented driver, but if you're not careful, you could solid the reputation of, or you can end up causing to lose a good few fans, and that is support in the future as well.

And the Italian fan base around Ferrari is incredible, right? They're one of the greatest fan bases of any sport in the world. They're so passionate, and it's incredible to see. But because of that fan base, and because of the historic element that Ferrari has embedded in Ferrari, they're so narrow focused on this Ferrari is best. Ferrari must always do this. Ferrari must do, and it's not working for them.

And they need a culture change. It needs to be more open-minded, aware, accepting, and forward-thinking. And if Picasso could come around and go, you know what, we need to change what's going on here because Ferrari have been on a downward slope since Schumacher left, then if he can change that around, there's every chance that he could be the guy. And I'm not saying he should be out that door because of this result. Everyone should be given time to do their job. he's clearly an incredibly smart guy, he's very talented.

If he can rally the troops, if he can turn things around, if he can advocate to the fans and the stakeholders of Ferrari, that we need to do things differently. Look at Mercedes, look at Red Bull, look at what they're doing as a team as a unison. I think that they could become, once again, the greatest team in the sport. I just think they need to have a more open-minded approach

because it's so negative currently. And the moment something goes wrong, it's fingers pointed. It's not, you know, when Hamilton had a bad race, we go in as a team, we work out as a team, I stay behind at the race and I sit with my engineers and I sort things out and we work as a team and we win as a team.

Still, we rise is his catchphrase. Where is that at Ferrari? I don't see that. I don't see that you missing at Ferrari. Max Staffen for all his faults and maybe his personality traits that people don't like. He commends his team.

He works hard with his team and he puts the effort in with his team. I don't see that happening currently at Ferrari. It seems very me, me, me, very blame, blame, blame. and I think that a culture change, as we've seen at the likes of McLaren, which is working brilliantly. They had a whole new driver line up two seasons ago, and it's working fantastically well for

them. Something concrete needs to change at Ferrari, but also could do it. And I'd love it if he did. It would be a great redemption story for Ferrari. I'm not certain, but it could happen, and I'd love to see them try and change it. And I think there's an efficiency problem with Ferrari as well, because, I mean, they spend a good amount, and that's going to be somewhat negated by these cost caps. But Red Bull are able to compete with them in the average season

and in this season go beyond what they have with spending less. And Mercedes are pretty much spending the same amount and getting so much more. They're getting more bang for the bucks. So, yeah, Ferrari have to really look at what they're doing and try and work out this long-term strategy. To switch gears before we go, I'm not sure, well, Ricardo and Stroll, the incident was investigated.

As we're recording, I don't think there's been a conclusion to that. It's been deemed fine. Deem fine, okay. Well, that answers to that. Harry, do you think it's right? I don't know. I don't like when the Sturiers clamp down on a bit of wheelbanging, et cetera. And, you know, we were waiting for ages last year for the Vestappen, the clerk.

incident. It's very borderline, I think, because Stroll absolutely sent it, and we love a send, obviously here at late breaking, but he was not ever going to make the corner, and he took Ricardo with him. So in that respect, I think it was, yeah, I don't think he was right, but, you know, fine, it's, it's, they've made decision. I'm just glad they've made it quickly, to be honest. Yeah, definitely borderline, though, but I, yeah, I don't want to, you know, clamp down that. sort of racing. It was a threading final two lap. So yeah, I'm fine with that cool. Yeah. They've made it before midnight at least. So well done. Yay. Sam, penalty or no penalty for that incident?

So this is what frustrates me about the skewers and the board that decide these things. They wait for the after effect of what could be. Just because there was no contact entirely decided by Daniel Riccardo's actions, that means there's no penalty. If Daniel Ricardo hadn't driven off the track, we'd possibly have had two cars' DNF from this race. And that is entirely on Mark Stroll. He cocked up the braking line. He braked too late. And yes, we love a scent here, but I love it when it's well executed and it's wheel to racing and you pull off a strong move.

He had multiple opportunities to do so. And he messed up big time. For me, Ricardo doesn't jolt the car to the left. Those two cars come together. And we saw an instant last race weekend where Lewis Hamilton gets a five second time penalty for contact of a car going around the outside. No car was actually damaged. Just a car was sent to the back of the grid,

but no car was damaged. I think strolls move here is worse. I think realistically, if the car tries to stay on the track in the form of Danny Ricardo, we have severe damage. That's two cars out of the points, and that's a disaster for both teams.

I generally think this should have being a penalty, or we need to keep our decisions consistent. And once again, I don't think the security to be consistent. And it's becoming a little tiring. You have a board that are paid millions, you have a board that I've got years of expertise. And I just don't think they've got any guidelines who joke something by.

They seem to pick and choose. No body parts came off here. And by body parts, I mean the car, not the drivers. So, no penalty. Oh, there's some contact. Penalty. But the moves could have been exactly the same. If the attacking driver and defending driver

pulls out the way and there's no damage caused, apparently it's fine. No, you need to learn to execute your moves better. You need to learn to break more efficiently. And Ricardo, defending perfectly, and he drove off the track because he had to. You've been forced off the track. We've seen things previously for being forced off the track.

Penalties being given. And once again, there wasn't this time. I want consistency. For me, it's a time penalty at least three seconds. I don't really think it's good enough from the stewards. Yeah, stonewall penalty for me. I can't understand how he's allowed to get away with this. He should set it up the inside,

given Ricardo absolutely no room to work with, got the position, to keep it because he messed up his braking zone. Yeah. By all means, send it up the inside, but do it to the point where, and I'm absolutely fine, more than fine with wheel to wheel racing, absolutely on the limit stuff, but you have to leave room for the other driver. Because, you know, that, to me, wheel to wheel racing is much more entertaining than driving

another Kai completely off the circuit because you can't get the breaking zone right, and then also taking the position. as you rightly say Sam, if he stays on the track, he gets hit. So you're telling Ricardo, okay, the position's gone. It's your decision. You can either accept the contact and have the chance of retiring, or you can literally get off the track and lose the spot. You haven't got any alternatives to that.

And you could argue. Because of it, he lost to Norris as well. So it effectively lost two places and didn't get past Perez at the end because of that. I don't, as you were saying, I don't understand how. is not a Stonewall 100% penalty. Because, you know, they might as well have had contact. They might as well have. It had pretty much the same effect.

There is every chance that Ricardo could have stayed on the outside, on the track, got hit, and the same thing would have happened, and the penalty would have happened, rather than him actually leave the circuit. I, yeah. Lance Stroll, you know, he was stuck behind Ricardo for a long time. Ricardo did a great job of defending. Stroll wasn't clinical enough.

decided on the last lap i'm going to go for it now um and it was just a poor move and i don't want to see it rewarded quite frankly yeah um but there there we go that's but that's my view on the on matter um sam if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here for this one it's been an entertaining grand prix as we say maybe not quite the race that race one was but we've got another race coming next week yeah i mean you you've you've said it all there two weeks of great racing we've got another one coming up and we will be doing of course a preview a review we'll have other videos discussing the topics around it and many more we've got a league race starting as well in the next week or so so make sure you're choosing if you enjoy gaming as well we've got plenty more content coming for you

get on our youtube channel take over our twitter at elbray and follow us on instagram we always love having those discussions and conversations with you so we'll talk to then in the meantime i've been sang to say i've been ben hawking and i've been harry eve and remember keep breaking late is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.