The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Has Vettel still got it?

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

After Charles Leclerc's win over Sebastian Vettel in 2019, the guys ask whether Seb still has what it takes to win another championship. Plus, will Haas head down the same spiral of doom that Williams have encountered? And does Mick Schumacher need to win the F2 championship in 2020? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See golden nuggettcasino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking Formula One podcast. My name is Ben Hawking.

joined by Samuel Sage and Harry Ead. Guys, ready to discuss some more Formula One. We're going to go with Motorsport today. Oh, man. We don't talk about it a lot. We may come across Cupid. Yeah, real controversial topic, Formula One that we're going to discuss today. First of all, to address some very important news, though,

is that last week we did have a Formula One hybrid-era draft. Very fun video to make. Had some special guests on the show, I would advise checking that out as soon as you can. But, spoiler ahead, if you haven't seen that. The winner of the event was Sam, who managed to put together a team of J.B., who you were very celebratory towards getting that pick, a Ferrari power unit and chassis duo, Toto Wolf managing your team, and Sines and Bianchi as well. So the hybrid era draft, Sam, you won it. So congratulations for that. I would say I'm the Mercedes of the hybrid era now, but ironically, there was not much for Sosges within my team.

All I can say is it still feels great to have Jay B's lovely face up your bums. Yeah, that was probably the takeaway comment of the evening. So well done on that, Sam. Moving on to this week, we're going to be looking at Daniel Ricardo. Of course, he's now got a full season under his belt at Reno. We're going to be asking, at this point in time, has he made a mistake in his decision to move to Reno? We're going to be looking at Hasse, whether they are going down the same route as Williams or whether they'll be able to recover in 2020 and a bit of Mick Schumacher as well.

He's entering his second year in Formula 2. We ask whether he needs to win the championship this season to be seen as a viable candidate for Formula 1. But first, we're going to be looking at Sebastian Vessel and basically asking, has the man still got it? We know that he lost to Charles Leclair in 2019, making it two losses in the last six seasons to teammates. And of course, no championship now in six years. Sam, do you believe that Sebastian Vettel has still got it? Can he bounce back and win a championship again?

Yeah, I completely believe that Sebastian Vettel has still got what it takes in the locker. The man's a four-time world champ, and two of those championships were tough for him to get hold of. I mean, we all remember those incredible scenes where he snatched it away in the dying lapse of the final race of the season. Unreal moments in Formula One, only this decade. Well, it's not, I suppose, is it? Last 10 years. We'll go with that. The point is, the man can drive. The man can perform under pressure. And I don't think it's actually that damning that he loses to Charler-le.

Ferrari of almost semi-an ounce that the car is still being built around Sebastian Vettel. Charlotte-Cler is in the safety of the knowledge that his contract is much longer term. He will be the long-term focus of Ferrari. He's the future of Ferrari. Sebastian Vettel is still their main man. He's still where the talent, the focus, the drive, experience really comes from. And they need that in the team. If they lose Betel, I think they lose a real strong heart.

of Formula One to possibly a rival or possibly just to retire completely. Lewis Hamilton's still churning out some of the best performances we've ever seen him do. He's older than Vettel, so I don't think age is really an issue for him. Yeah, he hasn't really gone along too well with the newer cars, but I think as long as he can work with Ferrari, reliability and strategy are good. I really think he could challenge. I think this could be a very close year. I think Vettel could be on it.

Yes, the clerk is a real formidable opponent. He's always going to get better and better and better. But I definitely think he's able to match him. if he just keeps his head in the game to quote Troy Bolto from Wildcats. Very, very good quote. Harry, do you think the same? Do you think that Vettel can bounce back this year and claim another championship?

It's been a while since his fourth one. I do, but it massively depends on what the car is like from Fezzar. I think if you get, give Vetter a car that he can, and drive. He likes, i.e. like a Red Bull 2011 or 2013. The man is unstoppable. And I'm not sure who else could beat him, even Hamilton, if the car is right. Last year, I think, was clear the car just didn't suit him. And he suffered for it. He still pulled out some good performances, but a lot of the time it wasn't great. And yeah, he struggled in comparison to Chuck, Chuck Leclair. So if the, yeah, and as Sam said, they've already kind of semi-announced it's

going to be built around said this year, if that's true. And if it works, then I see no reason why the four-time world champion cannot bounce back and claim another. But yeah, I think it's all down to that car. I'm not saying he's not a terrific driver. I'm just saying he really needs a car that works for him. And he didn't have that last year. So we should have to see what the boys and girls at Maranella build before we, yeah, before we see. yeah sorry go on

it just tailed off did teller I thought I'd finished and then I thought I hadn't finished and then I was like do you know what I have finished ending with so much confidence

in the point I love it look the worst being for themselves lads up your bumps it's twice in my video yeah they need to stop saying that phrase it's getting too often now anyway so I think

Sebastian Vettel not winning a champion in what will now be six years. I don't think that is a, as much of a concern. And I don't think that's an indication that Sebastian Vettel hasn't got it anymore. I don't think the championship break necessarily says that. Fernando Alonzo, of course, won his two championships, 2005, 2006. Would anyone say that 10 years later when he was still racing in Formula One, was he a significantly worse driver?

No, he wasn't. However, I do believe that Sebastian Vettel has not got one. he once had. I think it's been too many years now. I bet. I'll be bummed. Don't care. I think after his four years

winning championships just before the hybrid era started, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the first few years. I don't think you can go six seasons, not necessarily all underperforming, but all not at that elite level. And I still can't believe now that in this seventh year that he has it.

I think it's just been too long. 2014, he loses to Daniel Ricardo. 2019 he loses to Charles Leclair. It's a worrying sign that he's lost twice to a teammate that is not necessarily the experienced team. That he's lost to teammates that have just fresh come into the team. That for me is a massive concern. His middle years, he had a couple of half chances

at the championship. He made too many errors, particularly in 2018, to take the glory. He had a real chance in both of those years, and he failed on both occasions. I think there have been too many missed opportunities. There have been too many below-average seasons. I'm looking to see what has been his best year since he won those championships.

It's a tough one to really say. Not to say Vettel isn't talented. Of course, he's talented. You don't win four championships without being talented. But is he still at that absolutely? elite level. I'm not convinced he is. And I think 2020 is a massive year in the, in the career of Sebastian Vettel. I think it will do a lot to decide where he goes. Will he stay at Ferrari for a few more years? Will he move somewhere else, perhaps find a seat? But I think

2020, a lot of answers are going to appear. Sam, considering Charles LeClair managed to beat Sebastian Vettel in 2019, do you think it's a good idea that Ferrari are supposedly building the car a round Vettle rather than LeCler? On the face of it, yes, I think it's a fantastic idea. Sebastian Vetter has got so much experience in developing a car. Anyway, his input is invaluable. He spent so much time with Red Bull, so he knows a fantastic chassis when he sees one.

Of course, he has so much expertise there, and that car was fantastic. But I'm nervous. I'm nervous because of how well Charlotte Clare performed even as a rookie in that team. And Charlotte Clare, who is still going to have a lot of involvement in the development of that car, remember. It's not like he's going to be shut out forever.

If he turns around and still beats said Vettel, if he beats him comfortably at the end of the season, even though the car is built for a four-time world champion, then I think that is Ferrari career done, finished over for Sebastian Beto. It's either retirement time or after another team, maybe replacing Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes for a bit of development time. Who knows? We've rumoured that before. But for me, Vetter's got to come out fighting. He's going to deliver. This is the year he needs to deliver. Mercedes might be off their game, as this is the last time that they need to focus before a new era River Kings, they might be focusing on that

2021 season already. Ferrari is a strike now on the Iron's hot. And if Vettel fails to do so a car made for him and the Clare beats him, I'm nervous for them. I think it could be a really bad season if it just tips the wrong way. Harry, do you think, the same do you think that Vettel

having the car built around him is a good idea or not? I think it's worth the risk because they've secured LeCler for several years ahead. So why not take the punt now? if it doesn't go right, then they've still got LeClaire for a few more years and they can build a car around him going forward.

But, yeah, why not give it a punt now whilst Vetto is in the latter stages of his career? It's worth a risk for more time to see if Vettel can secure that fifth championship. So, yeah, I think it's a risk worth taking for now. It might not work out, but then they've got LeClau's secured. So I think it'll be fine. I'm going to I'm going to say I think it's another another error from Ferrari

I really believe that they should have not necessarily built this car around Shao LaClair but I don't think they should have predominantly built this car around Sebastian Vettel Look, Charles LeClaire did an amazing job last season He did a better job than I thought he would I look back to last season around this time where I said that I think Sebastian Vettel

First year at Ferrari he is going to beat Charleston, Leclair quite comfortably. That didn't happen. Charles Leclerclair, even though he was at a deficit for a lot of the season, he went and beat Sebastian Vettel. It's not even that if he had just competed with Sebastian Vettel, that would have been, that would have marked a good season for LeClaire. Definitely. He didn't. He beat Sebastian Vessel. And the theory is that Charles Leclair at his age and at his experience, it's only going to get better. I do completely understand the point of Chauleclair's locked in

for the future. He's got years ahead of him. Sebastian Vettel, don't worry, you're our present. I understand that. But if Charle-le-le-law-clair is already beating Sebastian Vettel at his level of development, Vettel's not getting any better. He's only going to get, he's only going to stay the same or get worse. LeClair year-on-year should get better and better. So I think it would have made a lot of sense to build, not necessarily build the car around LeClele, but just play at 50-50, down the line, see what happens during the season. Ferrari have made so many little mistakes like this. I fully respected their decision to sign Leclair to a long-term deal.

I thought it was a great move. Leclair's now locked in for a number of years and they can build this team around him. But the first stage of that is apparently to build it away from him. I don't quite understand it. I don't think it's a good move. And I hope they don't come to regret it. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe Sebastian Vessel really bounces back with a vengeance in 2020.

I would love to see it. I'd love to see that more than I'd like to be right about this, but I don't think it's going to happen, and I think they should have put a bit more emphasis towards Leclair in this car. Up your bum, Ben. Don't care. That's the third one.

Don't give her a trilogy of them, surely. A trilogy of Up Your Bums. One for each of us. Folks get the comments that's know which one's your favourite? There was a time where this show was supposed to be serious. that time went a long, long time ago. So that was about two years, 11 months ago. Yeah, not even sure it was that.

Not even sure it was that. Moving on to our second topic of this evening. Daniel Ricardo, of course, now has a year under his belt at Reno. Didn't go quite as he would have planned. Reno themselves went back a position in the Constructors' Championship, whereas Red Bull secured another third place. The team obviously that Ricardo left. Of course, this question might not be able to be fully answered at this point,

because Ricardo still has years left that Renault. But, Harry, do you think that Daniel Ricardo has made a mistake in what he's done based on this one season? I think it's too early to say. And yes, I did say Renaud were going to be third last year. But, yeah, it's too early to say they didn't have a good year in 2019. And they are the first to admit that, and Ricardo himself admits it too. But I think it would be too late to start panicking about whether he's made the wrong call whilst I know Red Bull did come third. If Red Bulls start winning or challenging probably for the championship this year and Renaud don't progress any further forward, then maybe he should start to worry.

But I also think he's hanging around for the 2021 rules. And I don't know how long this contract is. Is it, does it go past 2020 or the end of this year? Or does it go, does it end? I think it ends at the end of this year. Yeah, so I think that almost leaves him open to going elsewhere, should the opportunity arise. So, yeah, so I wouldn't, if I was him, I mean, I'm sure he's not.

He's like the most relaxed man in human history. But, yeah, it's too early to start panicking. We want to see how this year goes as well. I'm not saying they're going to jump up to third again because that was stupid. but yeah there could be a marked improvement and they'll hope for an improvement anyway so yeah gotta wait to see our 2020 goes before you start panicking lads if ricardo's decision was if ricardo's waiting for 2021 why do you think he moved to reno for 2019 and 2020 and then 2021 he makes another decision do you think that he he maybe made the decision too early

I think he just needed I think maybe he was worried about his stock against being against Vastappan. He sat at Red Bull for another two years and not saying he would have been thrashed by Vestappen but if he was you know potentially beat by Vestappen

for the next two years what would that do for his cred as a driver so I think that was his main motivation and maybe Rennel was the perfect holding ground for him he gets a few a few bob in his pocket and then he goes on elsewhere again so I think that was his main motivation.

It could just be, he may just be using Renault, which is really cruel. I mean, yeah, a point in that is he is earning a fair amount of dollar on that contract at Renault. Sam, do you think that Daniel Ricardo has made a mistake? I'm going to start by completely agreeing with that final point that Harry just made in that I think realistically, if Ricardo was at Red Bull,

the season we've just had and going forward, I don't think he beats Verstappen. I think the Stapton's form was just so strong in the most recent series. I don't know if Ricardo would have challenged, which you're right, would not ruin his cred. As a driver, it would dampen, I think, his credibility amongst the grid. Everyone absolutely loves him as a top guy. And we all know that he can lick the stamp and send it. But in terms of across a season long, capable racing into likes of Hamilton, I don't know if Ricardo's got that yet.

My only issue is, it was a bit of a do-or-die-situation. Ricardo needs to get out of there to try and boost something. I think he desperately hopes that Renaud were going to take the step up and not the step back, but they just happened to have this season. They were worse off and worse off by a fair whack. So in that case, it was a bad choice. I don't think he thrashed Holkenberg in the way that a lot of people said he would. It was a good fight between the two of them.

Yeah, of course, he came out on top, and he should have done. I think he's a better driver in most of his book, so it looked even worse for him, had he not. I'm nervous for this season. Renaud don't take a big step up. He starts to get on the slightly older side of the drivers around. If Ferrari lose Vettel, I don't know if they go down the Ricardo route. He's always had that link, mainly because of the Italian heritage, I guess, but still, I'm a little nervous that he just becomes a really solid big field driver from here and out,

unless Renault are able to pull their finger out and deliver in 2021. And if he gets no good offers for the 2021 season, he's stuck at Renner. If they don't go anywhere again, we lose this opportunity to see Daniel Riccano as a world champion, in my opinion. And I will be so devastated to never see him stand on that top spot again, because we all love him. So I'm, I like Harry, it's a little too early to tell. I'm a bit nervous for him at the moment due to the current season that we just had. I hope he smashes O'Con because he's going into again. And I really hope that Renaud can take the step up. If they don't take the step up

this year, I feel he's making a mistake. Yeah, I think there were perhaps two main reasons that Ricardo left Red Bull and joined Renaud. And in one case, I think it was worth the gamble. in the other instance, I'm not certain he should have done it. I mean, the first reason he moved to Renault is because he wants to be a world champion, which it seems a bit ridiculous considering he's moved back down the grid. But there is truth in the fact that Red Bull have been stagnant since the start of the hybrid era. They have been third place pretty much the entire time. And, you know, they solid team.

They compete for wins regularly at circuits like Monaco. This season we saw Vastap and claimed quite a few wins again. but it hasn't progressed on from that at all. It looked like there might be something in it when Ricardo won Monaco in 2018. It all unfolded from there. It didn't happen for him. And it just seems to be the case that Red Bull can't quite push on, at least in this era, to that level of Mercedes.

And the same thing has happened in 2019. Red Bull haven't quite been there with that team. So it's not as if Ricardo, who I think is an all-in guy in terms of the championship, I think that is his one and only sort of goal is to get that championship. I don't think he's interested in a few wins here and there. It still makes sense. And I think Ricardo is intelligent enough that he knows that this Renault thing was never going to work overnight. Okay, he probably would have estimated that Renault at the end of this season would be perhaps a solid fourth or maybe even pushing on for a podium or two.

I think both of those would have been fair. They haven't quite been there. but that's still not exactly where he wants to be. This is a long-term thing, which, again, still confusing me slightly as to the two-year deal. I know that does give him options to sort of see where he's at at that time, but this is a long-term thing. Always has been, always will be.

The other reason I think he moved away, and this is sort of coming out more now, is that the Vastappan dynamic, even though he gets on relatively well with Vastappan himself, the team regularly going in the favour of Vestappen, We saw how they dealt with Baku, and there was an increased possibility that they believe that Vestappen is their future. If they get into a 50-50 scenario, maybe they favor Vastappen, and Ricardo is pushed into a number two role. Something like Barakalo Schumacher, something like Weber Vettel, that kind of thing.

However, I don't think you should have moved based on that. I think Vestappen could have used the competition this year. And let's not forget Verstappan against Ricardo Ricardo won two out of three seasons It's not the same dynamic As Barakello Schumacher Where it's very obvious

Which was the better driver It was very obvious Schumacher was the number one And he was much much better Than Barichello And as unpopular as it might be It's the same with Vettel and Weber Vettel was significantly better than Weber

And now we're in a scenario Where Ricardo might be pushed into that secondary role I don't know if you would have done I'd like to see him stay there fight for that position because I don't quite think he's on Vastappen's level, but I think he's very, very close. And I think it would have been continually close going into this new era of F1. Understand why he moved after a year.

Didn't go the way he wanted this year. But at the same time, what was it going to be? I mean, they weren't going to win a championship in 2019. So it's not like he's lost out on a championship by moving. So we'll see how 2020 goes. It'd be nice to see them make some progress at least, perhaps back into that fourth place is where Ricardo will want to be. Good debate there, lads.

Nice. Nois is a good verdict on that. So we're going to move on to Hasse now. Of course, Hasse, they didn't do very well in 2019 to give it a very basic observation. Only really Williams saving their blushes. But Hasse, after finishing fifth place the year before, thinking that maybe they'll be in that fight again. They weren't.

But are they going to head down the same route as Williams? Do you think, Sam, that that is the direction that they're going or will they bounce back in 2020? Well, this is a really tough question because you're asking me, Ben, to predict the future. And it's not something I have been particularly doing in the past. You won teammate wars last year? The first time ever I won teammate wars. So maybe I am getting slightly better at this. I am more nervous about their driver line up than I am about their car development.

Even when they were having really poor races with their drivers, the car, yes, it was not a quick car last season. They were going through a lot of turmoil, on track and off track. They were still well in front of Williams. They were still quite in front of Alfa Mayo in quite a few races. It ebbed and flowed. It was a disastrous season. It just wasn't bloody good in comparison to the rest of what they've done. I'm more nervous about them having Grojong and box office Kevin Magnuson as their two

drivers. We love Magnuson. We love Grosio, both brilliant blokes, but are they good enough now to drive a team forward, like Hars, who are competing against a resurgent McLaren, a fighting hard rena, and a Toro, and Roso that I've come out of nowhere, which I no longer call Toro or so, that's going to get some, you know, I can't even say the other one, racing point, there you go. So I'm nervous more for their ability on track in terms of fighting. They take each other out more than they take anyone else out across the grid. Do I think they're going to fall back as far Williams? No. I think they've got too much money. I think they've got too much support. I think they've got too much time on their hands. And the expectation is very different. Williams are

championship winners. They've got a lot of prestige around them. So it's quite embarrassing to see Williams that far away. And I don't think they've got the interest from the drivers at the moment. I think they're being used because of the same is leg up, whereas Haas are a little bit more independent at the moment. I think they can kind of do what they want. They can gel. They can create relationships. They can move things around. I don't think Williams can do that at the moment. I think it's showing in their performance. So Haas, they need to kick it on. They need to a good season, but I don't think they're going to fall as far back as what Williams are doing. I think we'll more likely see Williams step up to the back of the midfield, then we will

Harsch drop down to Williams level. Harry, do you think that Hasse will drop down to Williams level, or perhaps get back in that midfield fight they were in in 2018? I don't think they're going to spiral into the depths of last. I think that I just think that there are still a new team. I know we're four seasons in now. yeah, four, before season in. But that's still, that's still so young in F1 terms. So not just, you know, a team that's been taken over by another manufacturer or whatever. This is a, that's a brand new team.

They're all, oh God, drop the phone. They're all new. So they're all still learning. And I think they, they keep, 2018 was in a good year for them. They didn't maximize it again because they were just learning lessons or learning from mistakes. and the way they designed the car in 19 was another mistake. But yeah, I think not saying they're inexperienced, but perhaps inexperienced in F1, some of the teams.

So, yeah, I'm not, I'm confident they will bounce back from a poor 2019. As I'm confident, I think Williams will too as well. I'm not saying they're going to start challenging for fourth or anything, but I think both of those teams will be closer this year, especially with a stable rule, no, no rule changes. What am I trying to say? None of the rules will change this year, so that will help. The rules will not be different.

Thank you, thank you. Yes. Yeah, I think with Hasse, and I didn't get a lot right predicting last year. I mean, I'm very disappointed still that teammate wars, the championship has been, it's just been handed to Sam. I'm still very gutted about that. But one thing I did get right is that Hass would go back down the table. And it would be because of their two drivers.

And I think you're absolutely right, Sam, in that Magnuson and Grojan, and I do like both of them, I think they are holding this team back slightly. And I think that applies perhaps more to 2018 than it did in 2019, even though they did better in 2018. I think fourth place was definitely achievable. in 2018. 2019 the car was terrible. I don't think they could have done much more than what they did.

The issue that Hass now have is that Grojean and Magnuson through the two cars that they had throughout the year, not sure which one to go down, did they go the Australia spec or the other one that came along later. Grosjean and Magnuson have a lot of knowledge inside Hassnau, that is going to be very difficult for a new driver to come in and have that. that they've learned so much about the car and what went wrong. They did a shoddy job at the beginning of the year, and I think that's going to come back to bite them in that it's going to be hard to replace the two drivers,

even though we know and most people know there are better drivers out there, definitely that they can have. I tend to think that they will improve this season. I think their business model is too effective not to. They're just built differently to Williams. Their relationship with Delara is a really great. one in the current era of Formula One. I know there's a lot of debate as to whether it should be allowed and is it, are they a true constructor, or has a true constructor? But I think their business

model, at least while it's, it's legal, it's a great idea and it's a great route to go down. So I think they won't go down to where Williams are. I think they'll bounce back. I'm not quite sure at the moment how much they'll bounce back. Like I say, I think their driver line up limits them slightly as to how far up the grid yet they can go. But I definitely think the likes of alpha, I don't like it, Toro, I think, yeah,

I think they can get up to the likes of Toro so maybe Alpha Romeo, those sort of teams and start competing again. I mean, Alpha Tora, not the best game in the world,

but they make some lovely jacket. So if everyone listening wants to buy me one, they're about £1,000. Message me in the comments. There are so many words in the English dictionary. I'm not sure how many,

but there are a lot of them. Yet, in 10 teams, we find that two of them have the same word starting them off. It's not okay. Alpha, Tori, Alpha and Mayo, come on.

Can confirm there are 171,476 words in the English language. Pick any of them. Pick bums. Don't care. Bum tory. Please no politicians. Yeah, I was about to say that could open the gates.

Good God. Our final topic tonight, we're going to be talking about Mick Schumacher. after his first season in Formula 2. He just finished outside the top 10. Did claim a win in the sprint race in Hungary. That was his only trip to the podium all year. Will he now kick on and does he need to kick on

in order to be seen as something of a viable candidate for Formula 1? Sam, do you think this is a must-win year for Schumacher? I don't think he needs to win the championship. We have seen significantly strong drivers come up from Formula 2 after not winging the championship. just take Lando Norris, for example, did not win Formula 2, George Russell beat him, look at where they both are now. Yeah, okay, you can say that links between teams and maybe guiding things differently,

but Norris was comfortably one of the better drivers in Formula 1 last season and has, he's now a mainstay. He's now a main game that people are fully aware of in Formula 1, he's fine. I think what makesume I can need to go along and do is a top three finish, top four finish across the season. If he can get a few wings under his belt, he can have a couple of great drives, he could be challenging so he's not well off the pace. I think if he can finish in those top three, maybe top two positions,

then I think a drive maybe a hars or an alpha to then step up to Ferrari a little later because he's got the name. I think he'll get the reason if he's not as good is possible. I think he could be good enough. He does need to step up. Does he need to win the championship? I don't think so. But a top three finish you think he needs this year?

I think so. I think you look at last year when we had the step up of the rookies. you had obviously Russell, you had Norris, you hang Albon, look where Gazley came from. They all did very, very well, and I think that really shows. So for me, I mean, Nick DeVries, for example, you win it. You don't go into Formula One. So it doesn't prove everything.

You just need to show that you've got the links as well as the talent. He's definitely got the links. Top three, maybe a top four at a real push. Just some talent really emerges. And I think, yes, he's good enough for F1. Yeah, as we've seen in 2019, the second place finisher, will find himself in Formula One this year, the first place finisher doesn't. So yeah, absolutely. Harry, do you think he needs to win the championship this year, or will a top three position suffice?

I agree with Sam. I don't think he needs to win, as we saw last year with Norris. Norris only won a race, I think, in 2018. Sorry, not last year. That's two years ago. Yeah, he just needs to show, we saw glintas of it last year, and the winning, obviously, got that win in Hungary. his career so far has been a bit of a slow burn. We saw in F3. He had a year that wasn't fantastic. And then his second year was much better. He just grew into it. So I wouldn't be surprised that this was the same sort of case.

It's a slow burn and he's this year going to be he's going to be more competitive. But yeah, agree with Sammy. He doesn't have to win the championship. I think he's just got to show that he's consistently there. And F2 can be so random, varied. full of complete carnage that you don't get someone dominating very often. So I don't think that's going to happen.

But yeah, he definitely used to step up as well because his teammate, I think, is going to be a tough little challenger, I reckon. Yeah. Yeah, and I've said this on a previous podcast. I'm very excited to see that. There are some exciting rookies coming into Formula 2 this year. I think it's a little – it's going to be tough. I think he needs first or second, maybe third this year. I think it depends on how you want to look at this question.

If you want to look at this question is, is he a viable candidate for F1? No, he doesn't need to win this year because you look at some of the resumes of other drivers who competed in Formula 2, who made it to Formula 1, and they didn't necessarily win the championship in the second year. I mean, take Latifie is a great example of that. He got second place in his fourth year of Formula 2. In his first year, he was down in 16th, which was worse than winning. where Schumacher finished in 2019,

and he had two fairly middling seasons in between that four-year stretch. Jolian Palmer won the championship in his fourth year, but again, took him a while to get there. Maldonado, fourth year he won the championship. He was outside of the top 10 in his first year. So there are plenty of examples where four-year drivers in Formula 2 are getting into Formula 1. And of course, Schumacher, this will only be a second,

so he's still got a few more years on that yet. The problem I have is he is therefore, if he has a decent season, yes, he's viable for Formula One. He'll be good enough for a seat. But is he going to be good enough for a great seat? Is he going to be viewed as a brilliant driver? And I think in that instance, he definitely needs to either win or come second this season because, I mean,

Lando Norris, like you say, he didn't win the championship in Formula 2. I would say it's pretty much the only thing he didn't win in his junior career. and if he had won that championship, I think it could be the best junior career of all time. And George Russell, I mean, the guy who beat him, George Russell and Shao LeClair, if you look at those two winners, back to back, F2 or GB2 winners, they won at their first attempt. Lano Norris, second place, first attempt.

Schumacher, if he's not second or third on his second attempt, then suddenly you ask questions, okay, these guys who are already ripping it up in F1, Shao LeCla, in particular, has got a few years on the other two guys. But Shao LaCla, already doing a great job in Formula One, and he was able to get to the summit straight away. And that applies to F3, as well as F2. Same with George Russell as well.

F3, F2, wins both straight away. Schumacher took him a season and I have to get into European Formula 3, moves up to Formula 2, has an average first season. I think he really needs to kick on this season. Like you said, I don't think he necessarily has to win. the championship, but I think he at least has to be in the running for it up until the last race or two. I think that's a minimum if he wants to form a successful career in Formula One. Because, I mean, you look at the names that I mentioned for the four-year champions,

Parma and Maldonado, neither amounted to a great deal. Spain would not counting Spain, obviously. So I think you can have that. You can have that on your resume. But yeah, I think he needs to make a mark this season. I think it's an important year for him. Another interesting point about those kind of four-year winners that you mentioned is that the majority of those guys tend to be paying drivers as well. They don't tend to be brought back in because of pure talent. They're brought in because of the money and sponsorship that they also bring into Formula One where teams such as Salva, such as Williams really require that extra, oh my God, where's my R's gone? Really require that extra funding to survive in Formula One. So I don't know how much

of that next Schumack has got behind him. Obviously, he's got a lot of funding. He's got a lot of support. I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I think Schumacher probably has some money, but back of the sofa. How many companies are sat there slapping hundreds of millions? Like, Mal Dengada had the whole of Venezuela behind him. Checo Perez has got the whole of Mexico behind him. What's Schumacher got in comparison to that money? He's got money, but has he got that level of money? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't pried into his financial area of the world. But I think if he takes any longer than maybe this season, It looks risky.

And maybe keep it up on that not prying into his finances, we could get in trouble. I don't do, I promise. Of course, this debate is completely pointless because we all know who is going to win Formula 2. The boy, Roy Nisani. Go on, Roy! I think it's versus him and Rago Nath.

Rangana. I can't say his name. I wonder why. Ranganathan. Yeah, I can't quite understand why he's... I can't wait to see Goat Roy. Oh, I can't think of a better way to finish the podcast than on Goat Roy. But I guess, Sam, you better take us away and do something official.

Right. Let's move very far away from Goat Roy and Asani. If you have enjoyed the podcast or the YouTube videos, depending on where you are watching, please do consider dropping a like. Hit the subscribe button if you want to stick around for more. We're always bringing out new content. A lot of gaming content coming out now as well. That's just sitting us.

So make sure you get involved with that as well. We will be back. of course at the same time next week. So stick around for that. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Boyn-A-Sani. And remember, keep breaking late.

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