The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Have Alpine made a MASSIVE mistake letting Alonso go?

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Following on from Fernando Alonso's podium at the Bahrain GP, the boys discuss whether Alpine may be regretting their decision to let the two-time world champion move on from their team. They also disucss Williams' potential for the year, George Russell's comments about Red Bull dominance - and play F1: Order Please... SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: https://fantasy.formula1.com/en/leagues/join/C3CCEW8P704 TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ EMAIL us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Beau and a very warm welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. A few days removed from the first race of the season of Bahrain Grand Prix, and we are back with another episode. Sam, are you off the Alonzo hype train yet? Have you found your station or you're still firmly aboard? I'm never getting off, mate.

I am. I've bought a worldwide ticket, you know, a 16 to 25 rail card. I'm too young. I'm too old. Hey, come on now. Come on. I can't answer that. I've got 25 to 60 plus.

Oh, yeah, I get my OAP card. Thank you. Get my free travel to ride. But me and Al-A-L-L-Sahara there together conducting the journey, firmly, ch-ch-ch-all-a-board. Bloody loved it, mate. Absolutely love it, mate. Absolutely.

I've been on that hype. On that hype, hype, hype is hype since like practice on Friday. I've been buzzing about it. Harry, I imagine you've just imploded. Oh, man,

it's been joyous. I'll tell you what, I feel like maybe, including Ben here, but maybe we as a podcast, enjoyed the race more than the majority of everyone else who watched F1. And I was like, oh, right.

Seeing the reaction yesterday, I was like, oh, okay. We ain't on the vibe. No, we're not. We're just against the vibe. Sounds about right. It does sound about right. But yeah, you know.

We've never been cool, so I'm not shocked. I don't care. I still enjoyed it. So what, have Rebel had won the championship already? Me? In my mind, I'm just going to cut, they're going to like trim them off and push them out to sea,

and then I'll just watch everything from third onwards, and that's my championship. I think your appreciation for the race deviated depending on your opinion of Fernando Alonzo and really how much are Fernando Alonzo's difficult years you endured because we were around for the McLaren days

and once you've seen that seeing what we saw on Sunday is a better day for him much better day yeah I mean he went through the hardship right to see the light and I imagine he would describe it in one word and that would be karma good that's a nice 2017 reference there

you know hello Joliam Palmer. We've got plenty to talk about today. It's actually going to be Fernando Alonzo that takes on our first topic, but also on the show, we're going to be discussing Williams and how they managed to get a point on Sunday. They're off the mark at the first possible opportunity. We're also discussing F1 teams considering a 600 million entry fee, whether that's a good decision or not. Can't possibly foresee where we're going in terms of our opinions there. But we will kick off with Fernando Alonzo because his second podium since his return to Formula One,

his first, on his first outing for Aston Martin. Sam, does this prove that Alpine made a big mistake in getting rid of him? I mean, Othmar, you've surely got to have a little cry to yourself when you realise that not only, you know, the Piastri saga, that was a pain in the backside. but Fernando Alonso, who clearly has some of the most high levels of determination in not just, I'd say, motorsport, but like the world, the man is so ambitious. You know that rumor that went around that he went into like a weird coma when he woke up, he thought he was 21 again?

I'm slowly starting to believe that that happened, and he's not in his 40s. He is younger than me and is still just living out his best life. The guy's got so much talent. It's endless, raw talent. The way he demonstrated that move going past, not just science, but also Hamilton, through that turn-tang ability, the wheel-to-will ability is exceptional. And when you're trying to build a team, okay, you think, yes, we want longevity. But longevity isn't always giving Eskiman Ockon, the world's longest contract until the end of time

and mankind is wiped from the face of this earth. Sometimes it's give Fernando Alon also a three-year deal and realize he has such expertise of brilliq and maybe move your car up higher than it is. and you threw that opportunity away. Now, I think Alpine made a mistake and get rid of Alonso, but I do also think that, okay, gas is a good option, Ocong's a good option. The car, on the other hand,

does still need to actually apply itself and create some form of result, and they need to be doing more work in the engineering levels with aerodynamics with the chassis, because it's all well and good having for Gandovalonso drive that car to its absolute ragged edge and maybe get himself in eighth place. But, you know, if a guy,

cars only ever capable of a maximum eighth place, then does it really matter if they've let him go, if they're having to pay, if they're saving money, I guess it kind of has a benefit. But for me, I would much rather have a fired up Fernando Alonso in my team than Esquemang Offcom for the next 47 years,

quite frankly. And I know Fernando Alonzo is pretty well known for making good decisions when changing teams. I mean, you know, it's pretty much a guarantee every time he does it. The problem is when you get rid of Fernando Alonzo, or Fernando Alonzo decides to leave you,

that's his motivation for the whole year. Like, his sole objective in life is to stick it to the old team, which must be horrible if you're not receiving. He's so angry, isn't he? It's like the Taylor Swift lyric, isn't it? It's the, hi, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me. It's like, Fernando is always the problem.

Fair enough, and good to get it. Cheers, Taitay, good to have you in on the podcast. I mean, you wouldn't know. Only close friends call it Taito. Oh, sorry, I forgot you were good mates with old Tiswif. Tatee are tight, aren't you? Of course we are. Of course we are.

Cheers Ferrari as well. We're close. Tilly with Tate. Harry, I mean, I probably know where you're going to be on this anyway, given that you are the chief cheerleader of the Fernando Alonzo fan club. But does this prove that our people? have made a massive mistake in not doing more to keep him? Yeah, I mean, look, Othma's, you know, this weekend just gone,

was probably looking at the whole piastri in the McLaren that was terrible and going, four, that was great. And then someone has to tap him on the shoulder, remind him that his car was pretty crap. It's a good part. Could you imagine if that McLaren was really good? Oh, my God. That situation for him.

yeah, that would have been salad. So, um, yeah, look, I think it was a mistake last year. It didn't matter if the Aston Martin was immediately competitive like it has been. I mean,

if it had been at the back of the grade, then obviously, Altma would be smiling. But even if it was, even if it was where it was at the end of last year, which was sometimes fighting with the Albeans, as we saw with, you know,

in Suzuki, um, as you say, Ben. Fernando Alonzo, he's a petty man, a petty, petty man. I respect it. Respect the pettiness. That's what he lives for. So even if they had been in the same scrap, I still would have said it would have been a mistake because like I say, he'll just spend every waking minute trying to beat you into the ground. So it was, it was a mistake. Obviously, I was going to say that. But yeah, we said it at the time,

that no offence to Gasly, but look who they got and who they could have had. Why would you not keep Fernando Alonso? At least for another year. Gassie's not going anywhere. He just stayed around in the Antifertari for another year. The big question is, would, as much as I am a big fan of old Pete, the sausage man, could he have gotten that result out of that Ascom Martin in Bahrain, really? I don't think he could have, you know, I think he would have been eating stroll.

I think he would have been fighting with Lewis Hamilton, but I don't think he have outdriven the car to that level to secure a... third place to that degree. I'm not sure he would have made an overtake at turn 10. Let's put it that way. No one made an overtake at 10th, apart from Fernando also. It was a bit more common in the F2 races, I found.

That was a bit more of an overtaking spot, but it's F2. The point is, like, F2 cars can pretty much overtake and do try and overtake every corner, whereas there's not usually the KSpref one. So that move was, oh, that was a great move. Yeah, in terms of Fernando, obviously with Alpine, if they are looking at their line-up from last year, if you're going to move on from one of the drivers, you move on from the driver that had the least number of points. So obviously Alonzo was the right call between him and Ockon to go.

Good. Le plan. Yeah, so obviously I'm joking. Yeah, and realistically, this race didn't actually prove. anything from Alpine's decision. I don't think it did. So we already knew before the race started, Alonzo, pretty good at the F1. All right, I think we can probably agree on that. Pretty good at the F1. And Alpine knew that. Alonzo definitely knows that. Aston Martin know that. Everyone associated with Formula One knows Alonzo can definitely drive a Formula One car to a very good level. So that was never

in question. So nothing's really been proven as a result of that third place, that podium. realistically, the reason that Alpine didn't want or didn't push harder for Alonzo to stick around was Alonzo wanted that multi-year deal and Alpine didn't want to give it to him. I think Alpine would have been happy enough in terms of that one-year extension, but they weren't willing to give it a two-year extension, which is what Alonzo wanted. So actually, there's only two ways in which we can find out whether Alpine were right or wrong to do this. Firstly, If by next year, Alonzo is still delivering at a really high level, at that point, you can say, yeah, Alpine, that wasn't a great move because, well, two years later, you're probably worried about Alonzo at 43 years old.

But if he's still really good at that age, then you've made a mistake. And also the other way that they might have made a mistake is if Alonzo's performances are so good this year that it doesn't matter what he does next year, at that point they've made an error as well. which is, again, a complete possibility. But yeah, I understand what Alpine were going for last year just in terms of looking ahead to the future. The problem is Fernando Alonso at 41 years old is better than 90% of drivers at 31 years old

and that will probably be the case when he's 51 as well. He will never leave. It's true. He will be carted away from that track. He will try when that race. as well. You will have to like spatula in hand proper get him off the tarmac and get him out because otherwise he's staying around.

I was so, I mean, just in terms of Alonzo, a wider question of having him on the podium and back in, even the podium itself doesn't matter too much, just having him in contention for big positions where he's a talking point more than he's been in over the last few years. How good is that for F1, Harry? it's great for everyone because he's a he's a personality and you know we didn't see as much of him or we didn't see as much as it much of him or half as much as a personality as he had on sunday in a competitive car and it just brought him to life in a way that we haven't seen for for a long time so it's it's good for f1 i think if the repal is as good as it was on sunday

they're going to be praying for Fernando Alonzo menacingness for the entire year because otherwise it's going to be a tough year for entertainment factor so it's good for F1 I don't see how there's any other way to see it if I'm honest obviously we want more drivers in the fight as well

but having him in there it's an added bonus and if it means there's four teams in it which by the looks of it, maybe there is, maybe not for the title, but at least in the mix of the front, that's only a good thing. And if Alonso is driving that car,

then I believe it will be there for most of the year. How good of a thing is it for F1, Sam? Because I know Red Bull at the moment look like they're going to be clearer of the rest of the field, but at least in theory, if it does draw back a little bit towards the end of the season,

could you imagine like, could you imagine a La Conde? Claire Hamilton, Vastappan and Alonzo fight for a win. Goodness me. I mean, that's just dreams, right?

If we got a race like that where the car's all very, very similar, and those four names, Russell as well in there, you know, were all close together, fighting for,

and maybe it was coming down for the last three or four laps so you're going, this is anyone's wing. It could end up possibly going down as one of the greatest races, if not the greatest race of all time. It is, honestly,

that higher level of prospect. But in terms of Alonso being, a name for Formula One. It only takes, you know, an idiot like myself to look at other sports as examples and see things like, you know, in English football, the likes of Marcus Frashev or Christiana Rangelo, or someone like that,

who can draw in a giant wealth of people to watch a certain game or follow a certain thing on social media. The same can be said with, you know, tennis with Djokovic, Chongadal, or Fevera, or something like that, right? Or golf with someone like Tiger Woods. When you get one of these characters,

such as Lewis Hamilton has been for the last decade, in Formula One to step out into the line, to rise themselves above the rest of the standing sports people and have an impact that's greater than the sport itself. Liberty Formula One, the FIA, need that kind of impact. They need that kind of personality because it does something that they can't do. It creates a character arc. It creates a storyline. It draws in people that care more about the character of, say, Fernando Alonso than they do necessarily about half of the racing that goes up and down the grid. It creates a global ripple effect

that allows people that go, I don't really care about motor racing, but for example, I'm Spanish speaking, I like competition. Fernando also seems like a great guy to me. I'm interesting in his story. And the marketing potential around that is absolutely huge for Formula One.

And Fernando has always been this anti-hero concept. He's always been this sarcastic, slightly villainous kind of guy that wants to triumph over everything. And it is so compelling to watch. Even back when he was in Rheno, right, fighting Michael Schumacher, even when he was going up against Riking and Lewis Hamilton, you couldn't take your eyes off him. Whether you loved him or you're hating him, you could not take your eyes off him. So having a character like this, like Hamilton has been

for the last decade, step above what the normal sporting entertainers do. It is invaluable to a brand. And you saw it, let alone for Aston Martin themselves, right? Their share prices have gone through the roof over the last week. It's what risen something like 30% or something like that. I think I saw a stat that said they gained $300 million on their company valuation based on Fernando alongside's performance in Bahrain alone. If you could do that for the whole season, think of the value that he's providing.

He's already paid for himself in terms of the money that's got to come in. You need a character like that. It can pay such dividends from you, the company, your brand. It's brilliant. What you say about either loving him or hating him, and you're absolutely right in that point, because it doesn't matter which category you fall into. The point is you fall in one of the categories.

And you would rather that. A lot of people love Alonzo. A lot of people don't like Alonzo, but you're feeling something one way or the other for him. And that's the key, right, when you've got these personalities. The biggest thing, salt, is to be forgotten. Absolutely. And that should be the case when it comes to Formula One.

And I think there is overall a push from Formula One to get the personalities of these drivers across more than that, has been the case in previous years. I think it's getting better because certainly I think it used to be, the driver's got to a point where they were so well media trained to the point where you could almost copy and paste their answers

and you wouldn't be able to tell which driver said it because 50% of them were capable of saying the same thing. And it feels like there's a much more, there's much more of a push away from that now. But Alonzo, you don't really need to push him there. He's already there and has been there for a very long time. That's who he is, which is great. And I really hesitate to give this free advertising

because they had advertised it so much at the weekend. But Sky Sports having their capability to go on board. There is a point of this. Having the capability to go on board with all the drivers and they kept on asking throughout the weekend, who would you go on board with? Who would you go on board with? And I was sad, I think, well, if I was going to do it,

it's Fernando Alonzo, isn't it? And that gives you an answer in itself, right? The answer's for that, no Alonso, because you can't miss what he's doing, whether you love him or hate him. I mean, and that point is also, I think, even more so important, because you've got characters like, you know, Valtry Bottas is almost reinventing himself since it's going to Alfa May. We've seen how cool and charming he has become, you know, how suave he is, he's got the mullet. You know, he's almost like a maid's home in Australian now.

But speaking of Australians, we've lost the other big character at the moment. Danny Rick, right? He was the man that you looked at. He was the man that interviews wanted to speak to. He was the guy that in America, you got him on the talk show because he provided you with immediate levels of entertainment that stretched beyond Formula One. Now he's gone, you need someone to fill those shoes,

especially how Lewis Hamilton might not be at the front, who was that other character in a different sense, the more political, you know, standing up and shouting about something important sense. Falonso, any of him, for longso, for longsia. It just, you know, provides pure hilarity and drama. And I love it.

It's just all gungs blazing action. He is the new box office. Philonzo and Fanonzo. Good. Good enough. Well, before we say bye-bye to this first topic, quick update. And I said we're going to actually do it this year because we forgot after one race last year.

And there's every chance we still do that this year, but we'll try. F1 Fantasy. So we've got a league that's been set up. I think we've got nearly 450 teams within our league and, of course, scores on the doors after the first week of action. I'm quite happy with that many.

56th, solid enough, right? Thank you very much, Alonzo and Vastappen. You really help me out there. This is unbelievable, folks. This is actually unbelievable, because Harry's not in last. He's not. It's not.

158th means you're in the top half as well. This is a turnout for the book. and Sam is the last of the three of us in 169th, so not that far behind. Nice. It's not. Of course it's that number. It's a hundred more than it, man. That's not, that doesn't count.

That doesn't count. Also, what baffled me is how similar all of up, the three of us have as our teams. And yet I'm still somehow this far behind. I do not understand how it's worked, but hey, you put Ferrari. Yeah. Anything Ferrari in my, oh, I have a team. Yes, I did. No sympathy.

As a top tip, folks, I've taken them out of my team for this next race. But I should mention this, naming and shaming here, because good old Brexit beef, our good friend, Hall of Famer, was prison beef. Very kindly set this up for us this year. And she's competing herself. 460th beef. What are you playing at? Bottom beef.

Oh dear Honestly I was looking at the scores After the race After they were updated I only finished Scrolling through five minutes ago To actually find beef

She's that far down What are you doing down there Loser beef That's been said Thanks thanks for sent out beef Yeah we appreciate the commitment Really appreciate that beef We'll take a short break

We'll be discussing Williams on the other side of it Before we get going On the Williams topic Just to mention that as we record this in about 24 hours time, we'll be recording our first Patreon exclusive episode. So the first one for March,

complete episode that's exclusive to Patreon, and there'll be another one coming up later in the month as well. It was yet too. So just to say, that will be with you fairly shortly as you listen to this. Soon. It will be in March, we promise. Please subscribe.

Thank you. Also, sorry, Ben, before you go on. our lovely discord. It's only five away from 1,700 people. So if you fancy chatting to some FM fans, it's got a banner now, hasn't it? Yeah, my sister to do that banner. Our selling point is we have a banner.

Yeah, we're very official. Yeah, thank you. Anyway, carry on, Ben. No worries. Williams. So we gave our predictions preseason as to where Williams would end up, all three of us, unanimous,

that they will finish in last place. so they are determined to prove us wrong. And at least after one race, they're doing all right because Alex Albin picked up a point which puts them in seventh, clear of three teams that didn't score at the Bahrain Grand Prix, those being Alphi Tauri, Hass and McLaren. So based on what you saw,

because Logan Sargent also wasn't a million miles away from points, based on what you saw, Harry, scale a 1 to 10 here, how confident are you that Williams will not finish last? how confident I'm that they won't finish last I'll go for a 7 I'm actually

Influence quite in them Well I'm sure that they will probably fall away In the development race During the season Having said that And it's a point that I think Martin Brundall made in his commentary It doesn't look like a car that's got a lot of downforce

But it just kind of looks solid a few years ago the Williams just tried to kill you every time he went to a corner so it doesn't do that anymore which is an improvement it just looks like a any gust of wind

and off you go into the gravel so it doesn't do that anymore and yeah it just looks kind of like a solid race car I think over one lap yeah maybe they'll struggle they won't be much further out of Q1 or pretty stay in Q1 for most of the season.

But if the race pace on Sunday is anything to go by, I'd say that they could be in with a shout of not finishing last. And if Hasse's race pace is the same, they've got nothing to worry about because that was diabolical.

So yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised by Williams. I hope they just sort of chip away at this year because I don't think they've got the fastest car necessarily, but they just kind of look solid. Logan Sergeant. I'm very impressed.

Bear in mind as well in terms of one lap pace. 1,000th quicker and Williams have got two cars in Q2 and Albin didn't really put together a lap in Q2 either. I don't think you would have been enough for Q3, but it might have been enough for a couple more positions. So it's interesting. On that scale, Sam, one to 10 if Harry's at a 7, where are you in terms of confidence that Williams won't be last

by the end of the year? I'm actually more confident than Harry's. I'll go for about an 8.5 on this scale. And I know, which feels bold. I mean, out of the three of us, what do you expect? And I'm doing this based on, you know, the other three teams that you've already mentioned that are currently behind them.

I don't think they've got the pace to really overhaul anyone in front. I think Alfa Romeo, they seem comfortable to hang in the back end of the points pretty comfortable all season if they can manage, you know, keep things up. And then you've got essentially Alpine who Ghazly managed to carve its way through the field into the points and played it brilliantly. And Ocock probably would have been there as well

had you not picked up every penalty. available in the nation of Bahrain. But, you know, then you've got Mercedes and then you've got Asking Martin. So, you know, I think AlfaMurna there, I don't think Williams are jumping in those. But look at the teams that Williams are looking to beat. Hars, for example, what is going, again,

I called them impostors, but what is going on at Hars? You know, it's a constant muckup every single time they come on the track at the moment, and they need to get themselves more sorted. They need to have consistency. They need to have a solid performance. Holt is actually a brilliant job in that qualifying, really surprised me at how good it was.

But KMAG's out in Q1. There's no strategy element to their performance. If that carries on, which I believe it quite possibly could, we're seeing what Hars had been like previously, and they haven't improved those performances year on year for a while. There's every chance they stay behind Winnens while the rest of the career continue to improve. And then you've got McLaren.

Now, McLaren for me, are more like they've got Google Chrome sponsorship, but Internet Explorer performance, right? It needs to catch up with them. It's a big debate. You've been waiting for that one, haven't you? I've been waiting for that one. Doesn't that deserve a drum? Oh, hang on.

Let me find it. Oh, it's the world's must-to-make-joke. Do it again. Okay. Hold on. Oh, he's done it already. Great. Good.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Good. That's more of a laugh than my coming, which I thought was a cover coming. It was a good one. I actually really liked it, Sam. Yeah. What's the secret to comedy, Sam?

timing. Timing. Anyway, my point is that their performance is delayed, much I internet explorer, and that I believe that in time, they will ramp their car's ability up. You know, by the time we get to Baku, by the time we get to, you know,

the Canada parts of the season, I think McLaren will have caught back up to the midfield. They have a developmental ability to do so. I think they'll probably leapfrog Williams. But then you have the other team that I haven't mentioned, which is Alfa Tauri. Now, Yuki Sengoda, as demonstrated at Bahrain, only performed in the first and last race. There's always Zapu-tabee.

Yeah, you know, you never know, he might wing. But Nick DeBrease as well is also a bit of an unproving entity. And whilst I think Nick was fairly solid in Bahrain, I just don't think that car has the absolute ability to give him a regular point scoring car, whereas Alex Albon is, for me, one of the most underrated drivers on the Formula One grid. He really has that ability to continue knocking out results. And you know what? as Harry said, the William simply looks solid.

And when someone like Logan Sargent, who he's got a good junior record, but he's never driven a Formula One car before, he gets in that car, he qualifies pretty damn well, and then he manages to go the whole way through the Bahrain Grand Prix without a single mistake, fighting regularly with the cars that are faster than him, and he's so close to Alex the entire race, I really think that he's got good potential,

and they can pull out some good results. So I do not think they're going to finish last. I simply think they've got a better overall drive a package with a better trajectory than the likes of Alfred Tower we do. So for me, I'm very confident that they're not going to be at the back of this grid for the whole season.

That makes me look pretty horrible because I've got it at a four. I'm like a kick to the gonads. I mean, we all put them last, and it's only been one race, where they scored one point. So it was pretty encouraging. And just to say,

it probably would have been a two before the Bahrain Grand Prix. So they're going in the right direction. the problem is I just don't know whether that pace is going to translate to the other Grand Prix yet. So before I go into the other teams that you've mentioned as well,

I will say this just about Williams at Bahrain specifically, and I think this really needs to be mentioned. I was so impressed with Williams generally at Bahrain, not just in terms of that car was a little bit quicker than I thought it was going to be.

I thought they nailed everything. Strategically, I thought they were spot on, and it was perfect. So in terms of the straight line speed of that Williams, they set that car up to be a rocket in a straight line to the point where no one was going to overtake them from that midfield. Fine. And everything they did strategically lined up with that brilliantly well.

So, you know, they did pretty well in qualifying. Certainly Alex Albin did. Logan Sargent, as we mentioned, unlucky not to make Q2. Both of them had extraordinary first laps. I don't know if you've seen the onboard of Logan Sargent's first lap. That makes. Felfth.

Brilliant. So you've got those, they have great first laps, and then everything they do strategically just focuses on track position to the point where the Alfa Tauris might have similar pace to them, maybe they have to do as well, but they've got the track position and they've got a quick car on a straight line. They aren't getting overtaken. They use the soft tires quite early on in that Grand Prix, their second set of softs. Again, that was done with the idea in mind that track position is king for the way they set up their car.

perfectly executed weekend. They deserve the point. The only thing I can't go further than a four at the moment is because I don't know how well that pace will translate. As mentioned, I think they will do pretty well on circuits that are quite straight dependent. I don't know if some of the circuits such as Singapore, Monaco, Imala, they might struggle there. I have a feeling they will. And, you know, Logan Sargent is still a bit of a question mark. It was a great debut, but it's still only one race. certainly from Hasse's perspective. Firstly, McLaren, I'll briefly touch on them.

Obviously, they scored no points from the first race. I do believe they will turn it around enough. I don't know whether it will be enough to satisfy their own goals and objectives, but I think it will be enough to overturn Williams in the championship. The other two, Hasse, I do think have got a bit more pace than what they were able to show at Bahrain. I think they've got a quicker card than they were able to show. The issue is they're really quick at the start of the season

and then they come away from the first race for zero points, that doesn't vote well. But if they get a good result over the next couple of races, I think they will go clear of Williams. The one I'm concerned about that's already been mentioned is Alpha Tauri, because I didn't see much different between those two cars. Pace-wise, I think they're pretty much level pegging

as based on what we saw at Bahrain. And line-up-wise, I think it's fairly close as well. I know we rank the line-ups pre-season. I had Williams 9th and Alpha Tauri 10th, and that might have been shared amongst you both as well. We both had those two teams as the bottom two. So I don't think Alpha Tauri, in the same way that has to, have a line-up advantage over Williams.

So if anyone's not going to beat them, I think it will be Alfa Tauri. But I'll go over a four, but speak to me after Jeter. It might be higher than that. I don't want to speak to after Geiger. I don't like you. Podcast is over after that. Yep.

All right then. This is actually our last episode. Great. Well, in that case. let's take a, well, I was going to say a short break, but we'll take a really long break. This is it. Thanks, guys. Yes.

Bye-bye. Okay. This topic's got the potential to be interesting because we're talking about money again, and we're talking about money being dictated by Formula One teams, which historically, if you've listened to the podcast, it usually causes anger amongst at least one of us, usually at least two, sometimes all three of us. So the Formula One teams are considering a 600 million fee for new teams. Now at the moment, that anti-dilution fee, as they call it, stands at $200 million. So any Formula One team that wants to enter, it would be the 11th team, obviously on the grid.

That fee stands at $200 million that needs to be paid that is split up between the 10 teams to essentially cover any losses that they get as a result of another team taking away their prize money. And that $600 million, just to mention, is apparently the lowest figure that has been mentioned, and it could be even higher in terms of what they're suggesting. The Formula One teams can only lobby for this. They might have a fair amount of influence, but they don't themselves dictate what that number is, but it looks like they're going to try and triple it. Sam, I'm assuming you think this is a great idea. Oh, yes, I love it. You know what? When something is a struggle, you know what you should do? Triple any part of it, at least.

That is always going to be a great idea. Oh, I can't climb Everest at the moment. You know what will make things easier? Let me triple the height of it. That will help. You know, come on. Come on. This, I think, is possibly for me, the most frustrating part of Formula One at the moment. It might, might be the thing that is irritating me, by far the most out of any of the stuff that goes on in Formula One that is negative. We want more competition. We want more ability to see cars up and down the grid fight and have more entrants from around the world, and especially from the likes of the US, which has got a great racing pedigree that can have a massive effect on the state of Formula One. I want to see more of it. So when you go from 200 million,

which is a huge amount of money, but I kind of understand the reasoning behind it, to 600 million What's your reasoning behind that level of a jump? And as Ben said, that's the smallest amount that is possibly being propositioned as what they're lobbying for. What is your reasoning for such a jump? Because, okay, we're going through a level of unprecedented levels of inflation globally.

There's a war going on between Russia and Ukraine and there's conflicts elsewhere in the world. Okay, trade prices have increased as well as freight. Yeah, okay. But to the tune of a minimum of $600 million, no, not a chance in. Hell, heaven or earth has it gone up that much money. And this excuse of, wait for it, folks,

Oh, I don't want you to take away my prize money. You know, said the entire F-1 grid. Get better at the sport. That is part of the incentive of being good at the sport. It's not a handout. Oh, please, Mr. FAA, can I have my money? No. No, you can win the money because it's a competition.

We don't all get medals for taking part. You earn your place. So if Anne Gretti coming or if Sam Sage Racing comes in with £2.50, you're beaten regardless and you earn your plates. If I beat you on £2.50, then you should have to be past you from your slipper or something. I've seen you drive, Sam. I'd put my money on you, mate. Meeing alongside and a team together. Menacing. My point here is, this is preposterous. It's dumbfounded and makes absolutely zero sense. And it is destroying the possibility of increased competition in the sport. And that's what I want to see more on. We're having to debate.

and things like, should Alpha Tauri sell, and I hope that a new team might come in. But it's not a new team thing, is it? It's just a replacement team. I want 22 cars. I want 24 cars on the grid. And I don't think that you should get an entitlement to prize money just because you've been in the sport and someone else hasn't.

You know, pull your finger out, be better at the game, and earn your money. That's the whole point. So for me, this is an incredibly frustrating topic. And the fact that it's 600 as a minimum is absolutely baffling a number. I'd love to go how they came to that conclusion. Do you know what I've just realised? It's just dawned on me.

We can't have Andretti in Formula One. It's another team that starts with A. I know. There are too many. That's already a peat. I think about that. Oh, man. Anyway, more important matters.

Sam's definitely in favour of the 600 million fee. Yep. Harry, are you? No. Good stuff. Shut up, F on teams. Being stupid. it's

I just don't they're just being a bunch of scary cats and they're annoying me just let another team in what you

if you're scared being beaten that's the whole point of being in a sport like it's the competition I know it's business elements

to it but yeah whatevs um of course whatev's business elements who cares who cares

have yeah whatev's commercial rights holders go away um Yeah, look, I do it's just The bigger problem again

We come back to this time and time again When it comes to things like the rules in F1 And what's what's allowed or what's not F1 team shouldn't be allowed to try and lobby this With the 600 mill rubbish They shouldn't be allowed to It doesn't matter you you join the sport Doesn't matter who else comes in

Shouldn't have a say FIA F1 F1 you look after that bit You have a sport you say this is our sport if you want to join it in you come obviously a bit of a bit of money

to pay I get that but not 600 million that's stupid so yeah I'm fed up of F1 team's been yeah Sam's impression actually spot on oh thank you

I'm scared I enjoy your impressions of my impressions yeah scared little F1 teams yeah just shush shush and get on with it if Andretti coming in and beat you. That's your lookout. Be better.

So I, yeah, and the point in terms of Formula One teams having too much power is something we've laboured on for long enough. It's been brought up a number of times and surprisingly my opinion hasn't changed on it. I don't blame the teams whatsoever for trying to get every single penny out of this they can. That's their right. They're looking out for themselves. They're looking out for their shareholders. Don't blame them whatsoever. The problem is they shouldn't even have the ability to be able to do that. It shouldn't sit with them whatsoever. It's got nothing to do with them. So, okay, here's what I'm going to try and do. I'm going to try and put some numbers on this, okay? I promise you by the end of this, you will realize even more so

how ridiculous this number is, because it is insane. And as Sam's already mentioned, the 600 million is the minimum that they're looking for. So we're being as kind as we possibly can to what they're proposing here. At the moment, the 10 teams, roughly speaking, based on the last prize fund, get one billion collectively. So it isn't completely, it's a lot. It's a lot of money. So it isn't completely split evenly between the 10 teams. There are performance metrics that decide who gets what. But let's just say for ease sake that everyone gets the same and everyone gets an average of $100 million. So you've got that amount.

So what happens if an 11th team comes in and assume that no value is added whatsoever to that 1 million? Instead of 100 million average, it's about 90 million average. So you lose 10 million in terms of revenue. So that's why this 200 million exists in the first place is to replace that lost revenue,

again, assuming no value is added. So in the example, what we've got at the moment, you lose 10 million as a result of an 11th team coming in. But from that 200 million that's split between the 10 teams, you gain 20 million. So you're 10 million up, right? Make sense? So if that number goes to 600 million, suddenly all the teams get 60 million each that are currently existing. So to keep that 10 million buffer that I spoke about, you would need to make a loss of 50 million from an 11th team coming in, if that makes sense. So what number in terms of overall prize fund would you need to get to the point where you would lose 50 million dollars? The answer is over 6 billion.

Bear in mind, we're on about 1 billion at the moment. That's a lot. You're telling me that the only way you lose out on this versus where you are at the moment is by F1 increasing that price fund by over six times what it is right now. That is insane. I know F1's on a great growth trajectory. Brilliant. The revenue isn't increasing by six times. I can guarantee you that. Where on earth are they getting this number from? They don't need 60 million each to dilute the overall fee for Andretti or anyone else coming in. They're not losing anywhere near that amount.

Explain it to me. This is pure corporate greed. Nothing else. I don't even think they're scared of Andretti. I think they're just trying to make as much money as possible. I think you're right, Ben, I think the other frustrating part is, as you've mentioned, you've said several times in your very well-per argument,

that, you know, that is assuming that no value is added to the sport when this team comes in. You know, the amount of advertising, commercial rights and an opportunity that someone like Adretti would bring to the rest of the grid, that Liberty would make more money off of, therefore the prize fund would grow, you know, is unprecedented in theory. They are the largest racing group from America in terms of, you know, a team. Why would you not want that as part of your sport? How do you think that you couldn't in some form make a financial gain off of them being a

competitor of yours or you being in the same market as them? To me, it just feels like you can make way more money having them as almost a friend rather than a not-existent part of your sport. It's just preposterous. And based on the cost, the cost caps are really important one to factor in here as well. At the moment, it's just under 140 million at the moment. Is it like 135? 1.3.8, I think. Okay. So basically what they are saying to an 11th team is you have to upfront pay for over four seasons worth of. racing in order to go racing. That's insane. Good. Good, good, good.

I tell you what, 600 million is a lot of money. You know what? Isn't a lot of money? That's a lot. What's not a lot of money, Harry? What's not a lot of money? Five-star reviews. Oh, God's sake.

How much does it cost to leave a five-star review, Harry? Absolutely nothing. That's not a lot. That's not. a lot. Apart from 30 seconds of your time, which we're placing no value on. That's not a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, folks, I do this every so often. It gets results. So I'm going to carry on doing it. Give us a five-star review, please, if you like us. And if you don't like us, we don't want to hear about it. Just kindly walk away. Just don't come back kindly. You know, live and let live. Leave it playing.

But just walk away. Yeah, put the whole catalogue on. Leave it on mute if you want. Walk away for a day. and then come back and forget about us forever. That's fine. But if you do like us, five-star reviews. Cheers. No, thank you for that, Harry. Really appreciate that. Speaking of someone that hasn't left us a five-star review yet, George Russell, need to get on that, mate. He had some comments after the Bahrain Grand Prix,

of course, not a great one for Mercedes and indeed Russell himself, so they ended up fifth and seventh with Russell occupying the seventh of that partnership. He said that Red Bull, based on what he saw, at Bahrain should win every race this season and also he's willing to sacrifice a season in order to get back up the front. So let's take this in two parts. So we'll just look at the Red Bull should win every race this season part to start with. Sam, what's your views on him saying that? Is it just a bit of a, is he over-exaggerating to one result or does he have a fair point? I think he also, Seg as part of this extended quote, that they've

got it too easy, which I found very comical, you know, like, I really... Look, what are you driving for, George? I know, right? He wasn't there. Again, yeah, he hasn't had any of the glory, which is the way I think I can understand. But, I mean, again, as we've already mentioned, it's a sport, right? You know, it's not just about the driver. It's about the engineering team and the ability to develop and use your resources.

They've not had it easy at all, have they? They've had to put as much working as everyone else, and they've done it better. So I think that is a hilarious comment to make after the domination of the Sages having it maybe too easy, George, now that you're struggling. The point is, Cuxham Red Bull win every single Grand Prix this season. Yeah? Yeah, I'm not saying they will. But in theory, if they have the same level of ability at every single race track as they displayed in Bahrain, then 100% it is highly realistic that they kick on to win every single race. We've seen it almost happened with Mosegis, right, in the last few years.

They had races at the early start of the new generation. in what 2014, 2015, where they won, what, I think it was actually like 96% of Grand Prix across two years or something like that. They lost like two or one. And I think a lot of it was down to,

yeah, what's a D&F? Yeah, I'm trying to think 2014, they won all at three, maybe? Yeah, I think so. I think they only ever didn't, like, they never went below three win as in what I'm trying to say. Yeah, gave away three wins.

Yeah, I'm trying to say. And obviously, some of those won't just be through drivers or the car being out driven. and there will be failures that are contribute to that, you know, in some relation. So, yes, Red Bull have every chance to go and wing every single race of this season. You know what, George, whether you cancel the rescue season or not, they've got every right to go and do that because that's how Formula One works sometimes

and they've developed a bloody good car and they've got bloody good drivers who are piloting it. So if that's the case, then that's the case. Get good, son. Shall I talk about the second part, you said, Jet Ben or John will leave it? We'll go on to that in a little bit, but I'll have a little thing, because I'll come back to you on it. I will have to think. George Russell, we're not very close at the moment, me and George.

So obviously when everyone in the world was picking Lewis Hamilton to beat George Russell last season and I stood by George Russell, we were very close. He was very appreciative of my decision and he filled his end of the bargain. Yeah, yeah. And then he fulfilled his end of the bargain. So he was obviously expecting that this year I would also back him to beat Lewis Hamilton and I haven't, so we're not on speaking terms at the moment. But replace him with Taitay.

Exactly. So I will speak about him, though, even if we're not on good terms. Should Red Bull win every race this season? Well, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I know Red Bull were very good at the first race, and I'm sure they will be very good at a lot of other races. And they will probably go into most races as the favourite this year. I have full confidence that they're going to win both championships.

But it's a 23 race season. There are just so many opportunities. for things to go wrong to the point where they aren't. I will say it on record. They aren't winning them all. I can't wait for that to now be true, but they aren't winning them all.

So if you were just to take Bahrain as the only measuring stick of everything that will happen across a season, first of all, Ferrari would be very happy because they would have won the championship last year, right? In all seriousness, with Ferrari last year, if you were just a base performance on Bahrain alone, you would say,

well, LeClaire's probably going to win minimum five races this year. Based on what you saw in Bahrain, and I can't remember how many he ended up with, but I think it was probably four, right? I don't think he even made five. Three or four. Yeah, right. So based on Bahrain, you'd have thought he'd have gone way ahead of that, and he didn't. McLaren wouldn't be very happy if everything that happened at Bahrain was going to be true

for the rest of the year because they would have had no points in the last two years, right? They were awful at Bahrain last year, and whilst they didn't fulfill their objectives, they still finished fifth and still gained a lot of points. So you can't read everything into the first race of the season. To that point, the last driver that won the first race of the season and then won the championship, Nico Rosberg in 2016. That's how long ago that happened. The guy who last did it has been retired for seven years.

So it's not something that happens a great deal. in Formula One, where the driver wins the first race and then goes on to dominate. Even in the Ferrari years, where Schumacher and Barrichello were dominant, they gave it a good go to try and do the clean sweep across the year. But it's difficult. It's difficult. And that was like a 16 race season. We've got another seven where things can go wrong here now. So I think Russell's probably, I understand what he's saying, but I can't down a little bit. God, that's just a little bit, mate. Simmer down.

What were your thoughts on his comments? Yeah, I agree with what you both said. There were points last year. I feel like people forget, you know, the Australian GP last year, when LeCler was, it was miles ahead of Vastappen, and then Vastappen broke down, and everyone was like, well, including Vestappen, championship over. Yeah.

Chambich, it's done. It's all done. Oh, that went well, didn't it? Back for 2020. Yeah, Ferrari helped them along the way there. But that's my point. It's F1. Things happen, weird, variable things happen,

which is why we watch it, because it's never, you know, it's never the same. So, yeah, based on the first races, is madness. And I think, yeah, the Red Bulls were cooked, but I don't think they had,

they had quite the advantage that we've seen, you know, in the, particularly in the Mercedes era, like 2014, they could just run off into the distance. You'd never see them again. I don't know as long as there was a little way behind, but he had some battling to do. But he was 20-odd seconds behind Perez at the end.

And there was no safety care, apart of the VSE, but no actual safety car bunching up the field. So that's not that bad. And if you go even further back to, like, the early 90s with Mansell and Williams. Look at some of the timing sheets. Good Lord. Oh, God.

The whole grid would get. getting lapped. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So we're not in that position there. Everyone used to calm down, including you, Mr. Russell. And let's see how Jedder goes because it's F1. Anything could happen. As I think, Murray Walker once said, and it usually does. Yeah. So there you go. Cheers, Murray. Cheers, Moza. Oh, I miss that man. In terms of the second part, I know you've been, your time to shine, it's, it's Cleetus here. Get a Simpsons reference in. Sam, the second part of that, Russell willing to sacrifice the season. Now, I think it might be too early to absolutely definitively say whether it's a good idea or not.

But what are your thoughts, at least in terms of Russell, entertaining the idea? Yeah, I was almost going to throw in a girl, bring me the 2034 car, you know. But I think anyway. List your kids instead. That'd be a bit entertaining. No, because there's over 103 and we'll be here for the rest of the podcast. One of them is probably called like dishwasher or something. Anyway, the point is, well, I made this point in the Bahrain Review where Toto Wolf came out in a really damning, negative way.

You know, he said the quote, this was one of my worst days in motor racing. You came fifth and seventh. You've got teams back there that haven't won a race ever. You know, you've got teams back that that haven't scored. points regularly for seasons upon seasons, and you've gone... Sure, but it's his, right? Oh, right, yeah. Of course.

Every experience is obviously individual. Anyway, when your team boss comes down and says, we've got it wrong, this is one of the darkest days that I've had, what's George Russell really going to say to oppose that? And I actually think it does make sense. But Saga's here to win. They're here to go all out. They're here to dominate. And it's great for their brand.

It sells them lots of cars. It creates great technology. they get a lot of money of sponsorship. You want to be here to win, and they want to be a viable business model in that sense. So if it means that, hey, we know that we can pretty comfortably use the rest of the season as a testing process and probably still come home,

no worse than fourth in the championship, to me, it's a bit of a no-brainer. It sucks for us as the viewer, because we won't see as fun of championship, we won't see as close a racing, we'll lose a team potentially out of that fight for second, which they're definitely still in the hunt for. but it does mean that in theory for 2024

we could see an absolute domination again from Mercedes if they get it right. I think George Russell shows that he's committed to the team long term. I think it shows that he isn't thinking about running off to another team at the first sign of a struggle, you know, into his second series, which is great. And I think they've got Lewis Hamilton to back them as well, which obviously a great asset to have.

For me, if I was Mercedes, I would already chalk off the season and I would go down completely no experimental, route. And I would try and bring something, you know, we've got the mini spring break between Baku and Melbourne. I would try and bring something completely different to Melbourne. I would go crazy with it and do something new. And I think he has every right to sit there and say publicly, why not? Because I'm going to be realistic. They have not got the pace to win regular races this year. They will not have the pace for maybe even regular podiums. They will not be winning

this championship. So move on. Solidify your future. it's an understandable statement from George Russell and it makes sense based on where he is this year versus last year as well certainly George Russell drove the worst Mercedes that has existed in the last 10 years last year it was also by far and away the best car he's ever driven it was a weird position for him to be in but he had his one season where being regularly in the top five getting podiums here and there and ultimately getting a win late in the season, that was so far and away better than what he had had at Williams that it's completely understandable that he would settle for that. I don't know if settles the right word, but it's almost like it's such an

improvement of where he was that it was enough for him last year, whereas it's like it's like it's worn off now. Exactly. And so it should, right? He's gone there to win championships ultimately, and now he's in the second year at Mercedes. It's almost like, okay, now I'm at the position where I don't care if I'm finishing fourth regularly. That doesn't do anything for me. I'm here to win a title. If it isn't going to happen this year, okay, that's not brilliant, but if I can do something this year that's going to help me do it next year, I'm willing to do that, which is what you're saying here, and I think he's absolutely right to, at the very least, entertain the idea. Because ultimately, his seven-time champion teammate last season,

when the other way, in terms of I want to do everything we can to prove, that we don't have a championship winning car. And I will do everything I can, everything that he can do possible to make sure that it isn't in there before settling, right? And I think Russell's probably in a position now where he's willing to go down that same route

if those are the only two possible options. And it makes sense. And it might be the only way, like you say, Sam, that they can get back in contention. What I would say is this. Do you know what, Mercedes dominance, do you know how Mercedes dominance ended? Or, you know,

is there a specific reason? Valtrey Bottas isn't there anymore. Soon as Bottas left, everything falls to pieces. He's the boat, isn't he? He's the boat. He's the boat. Oh, I love that, man.

What were your thoughts on the second part of that statement, Harry, in terms of George Russell potentially sacrificing in order to gain long term? Yeah, I think George Anand, indeed Toto, because Sam reminded me with that comment, I've been to the Mercedes School of Hyperbole

over the winter break because, come on, guys. I mean, for Toto, the worst day of your racing career, Spain 2016, do you not remember it? In fair, I will say this. Spain 2016 was awful, but he already knew that he was winning both championships that year. This was an indication that neither's happening this year.

Okay, okay. I still, I don't buy it, though. in terms of like on the day specifically. I get that. But yeah, I can understand Russell's point here. You know, he's got long enough left in his career that he can

he won't hurt, but he can sacrifice a year and for the sake of coming back next year, even stronger. So I take his point entirely. It's quite, again, I'm not ragging on Mercedes here, but they have quite a defeatist, and I say outwardly,

like publicly, quite a defeatist attitude. And I'm sure that isn't the case. And we know that's not the case. You don't become eight talents world champions by being defeatist. But what they say in public, do you remember when they used to dominate,

they used to turn up each weekend and be like, oh, I don't know, I think the rebel might have a, so far I've got this weekend. And then they do them, everyone by like seven-tenths in quality. You'd be like, okay, cheers, guys.

What a show. So, yeah, it's a bit of that, it's a bit of that coming back in. Obviously, now they are behind. So I'm not, I'm not a massive fan of that. Just, you know, your car sucks. Get on with it. You know, still having a little whinge. But, yeah, I get, I get, I get Russell's point here.

I'm sure maybe Hamilton doesn't necessarily agree with what they want to do, what he wants to do, because Hamilton's career is probably slightly limited in years compared to Russell. but I totally, totally see this point. I reckon he's just going to drive one of the older, more dormant cars at some point and see if anyone notices. Just bring back the 2020 to say. Yeah, exactly.

See what happens. Yeah, it looks pretty similar, right? I'm sure that would be 11. It'll be fine, none on notice. All good. We'll take a short break. We'll be playing F1 Order Please after this. Here we go.

F1, Order Please. Whether it's a can of Coca-Cola or a lump, cheese or we're ordering drivers by the size of their knees. This game is full of facts just you wait and see

this is Formula One order, order please F1 order please so I have got six questions in front of me it's Sam versus Harry in a battle of wits I'll give them four different

things that they will need to order could be anything, could be circuits, drivers anything I choose size of the knees could be that and they'll need to to order them correctly.

If they do so, they will hear this noise. Order! Why is that so loud? It's always painful now. It's almost the same equivalent as to what the gun is for or pump the brakes. You'll hear that noise and you'll get a point. But if you get it wrong, you won't get a point. Funny how that works.

But the other person will have the opportunity to steal if they think they know the correct order. but if they don't get the steel right, they lose a point, which means minus points are on the table here. Wait for me to be on minus three, folks. Kick us off well then, Sam. Number one, two, three, four, or five or six. So, I'd like you clarified because I might have got rogue. I'm going to go for number one. Okay.

Got four circuits from most corners to least, please. So we've got Suzuki. I need to write them down. I'm really bad at this. Zizuka. Okay, Suzuki. Monza. Circuit Jilvilnav. Right.

And Cota. So from most corners to least corners, please. Okay. Now, if I had all the time in the world, I would actually sit here in my mind. You almost drive them and count the corners. Time trial on that one, right? Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, let me load it out. I'm sure there are many people listening who can sit there in their minds,

almost visualise a lap of the track from from going on board with the car. And that's what I would happily do. But we don't have that time, so I'm just going to try and round them off. From most to least, I'm going to go, Cota most, Suzuki-Mose, second most, Canada third most, or Jilveungerv, and Monsa last, or least. O'Dea! Woo! What a start.

Rick Flair there came out. Sam takes the lead. So, yeah, absolutely spot on. 20 corners at Cota, 18 at Suzuki, 14 at Cirque d'Gilvillnav, and 11 at Monza, which still doesn't sound right. I think he's got three. But yeah, that's the correct. Eleven is all parabolic, yeah, pretty much. 11? Where do they find those then? What? What number do you want, Harry?

Number six, please. Four drivers, from most to least again. The number of wins that they had in. their rookie season. So you've got Nigel Mansell. Okay. Lewis Hamilton. Nikki Lauder.

Nicky Lauder. Nicky Lauder. Giuseppe Farina. Oh, what? I don't know. You guess so? You'll guess it right. You can you do it every time.

I mean, we'll bother thinking about it. So, for most to least, I'll go, oh, most to at least. That's the game. He's got it. I can't remember if Lauder debuted with Ferrari or not. Think of the film.

Yeah, I know. I'll go. Don't rush. Dig it. Wait. I'll go, Hamilton, Farina, Lauder Mansell, from most to least. That is not the correct order.

Sam has the opportunity for a 2-0 lead if he wants to try and steal it. Are you having absolute Tim Bath, mate? No chance why I see it that one? That can stay firmly in the bank. Fair play. If you had to have a guess, how might you have changed that?

I would say it's Hamilton Mansell louder for him. Yeah, good call that you didn't try and steal that. Harry was pretty close so Lewis Hamilton does have the most at four Giuseppe Farina had three wins but then Mansell had one and Louder didn't have any in his rookie season Mansell had one in his first season

Yeah Who four? Lotus Your mum did it? Good That's atrocious That's awful man Awful banter really awful.

Oh, cut that out. That is so too about it. Still one, Nell. Harry, don't cut that out.

Sam, what number do you want? You're on a roll of one. Oh, I'm telling me. I was descending into chaos. I'll have two,

please, Ben. Throughout the your mum joke on a podcast. At least we're, at least we're an hour in, I guess. Right.

Four drivers. all of whom raced quite a lot, but never claimed a win. Just most starts to least. So you've got Andrea de Chesaris. Yeah, can't spell it, but yeah. Martin Brundel. I'd love to see that exclusive content, how he tries to spell it. Well, hold on, I'll be writing down, and I'll read it out to you.

Okay. Jarié. Martin, Brandon. Hold on. Oh, God's sake, you've put all the world's hardest names. Jariet, yeah. And quick Nick Eyde filmed. De Cheseris, D-C-H-E-Z.

D-J-Z. I spelt, I spelled it. D-E-C-H-E-S-E-R-I-S. Not quite. Nice enough. No H in there, mate. Oh, that'll be the difference. I was close.

Yeah. Okay, so most starts. It's a Lig-Starts. I'm going to go Hydefeld, Brundle, the Cheseris, Jarié.

That's not correct. Pooh-Bums. Harry, do you want to go? Sorry, what was your order, Sam? It was Hydefeld, then Brundle, then the Cheseris, then Jarié last. I don't know. I've got no idea.

Yeah, this is a tricky one. De Cheseris is first on the list, so he had 208 race starts. Then it's Nick Heidefeld with 183. Then it's Brondel with 158 and Jarié is last 1-3-5. Ah, it's like one position out in the sense. That's not too bad. So, stays at 1-0. Back to you, Harry.

3, 4 or 5? 5, please. Okay. I'm going to give you four... pairs of drivers, I want you to tell me from most to least how common they've been first and seconds, how many times they have been first and second together to the least. So you've got Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen. Yeah. You've got Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. Okay. Michael Schumacher and Mika Hakenen. Okay. And Alan Prost and Ernst and Ernst Center.

what how many times they've been the first and second together um second question oh god sorry what was the first one

Hamilton and Vestappen was the first one Hamilton Vestappen okay so I'm going to go oh god most Hamilton and Vettel yeah second

uh second Sener and Prost. Yep. Hamilton, Vestappen and Schumacher and Hacken is the other two. This is such a difficult...

I'll go Hamilton Vestappen then Schumacher Hacken and last. That's not the correct order. Sam, would you like to attempt to steal knowing that you've got a 1-0 lead? No, again, leave it firmly in the bank. Put it away.

Put key in the fire and melt it. Can I do a guess without getting if you're not, I mean? Sure, yeah. All right. So I would have potentially have gone Sena Proste 1, Hacking and Schemacher 2, Hamilton Vessel 3, Vestapp and Hamilton 4.

Good Lord, I'm glad you didn't try and steal that, Sam. That is a... Lucky me. That is... In the nicest way possible, that ain't close. I'm so good at getting things right again. To be fair, this was... How has he got one-nil lead? This was really difficult.

So the most common first and second place pairing is Hamilton and Vastappen. They're already first. Already. Twice. 33 times they have been first and second together. When did that happen? 2019 to 2021. The race to get milk.

This is, I was like, Vestappen just picked up podium. He wasn't winning that much in 2019 and 20, but he picked up podium. He was second, though. That's enough to fulfill it. Oh, getting a bit of Hamilton's first. So it shocked me as well. I didn't think that he would be first.

Second is then Hamilton and Vettel at 26. Then it's Prost and Senna at 23. And then Schumacher and Hacken and only 14 times, surprisingly. Well, yeah, I thought there would be. but then they were really battling for like two years, weren't they? Well, when you think about it,

like 99, they weren't battling for a lot of luck. Yeah, fair point. Anyway, one-nil stays to score, which means Sam. Cryking, mate. Three or four. I'm going to be annoying about the trend

I'll go number four. You're an idiot. Sam gets this right. The win goes to him. Four teams, most starts to least. Okay. H-R-T.

Ferrari. Yeah, HRT, yeah. Andrea Moda. Andrea Moda. Cateram. Cateroom, yeah. And Super Agu. Super-Guri.

Got a proper soft spot for SuperGourri, you know. Fair. Friend of the podcast. Yeah, and also. The team. Yeah, they are, the whole team. And also the only team I can ever really qualify for on F-1. championship edition, because that's how bad I was at the game. He knows Magnicor like the back of his hand.

Actually, obviously, the only tests I could pass was Magny Cor, the 10 lap one where you had to beat a lifetime. We're getting off topic. Right, most starts to least. I'm going superaguri most, catering second most, Andrea Moda, third, HART, fourth. That's not the correct order, which means, Harry, you've got a decision. Do you want to try and steal it? I mean, if you try and steal it and you get it wrong,

you can't win for sure. But if you get it right, you're level and you have the chance to win it on your question. There's a lot riding on this decision. Hey, Harry, hey, Harry, hey, don't do it, mate. Just leave it. You can only draw if you don't try and steal it, yeah. God damn it.

I will go for most. Oh. Are we counted Ketram as just Ketram not as when they were a different green car. Because they were Lotus. Just when they were catering, I think. Qualification not allowed, I think, please. Okay.

Yeah, okay. Good. I will go for... Say Toyota. No. I'll go for H.R.T. first. Brabham. Brabham. Salva.

Salba. were the most. Catram second. Super Gary, third and Andrea Moda last. It's minus points for Harry. Which ice is it. You had the last two in the right order.

It's just the first two. It was the other way out. So catererum, I've got that as 92 race starts. H.R.T. at 64. Superaguri at 35. Ketrim must be as lotus as well then, surely. Yeah, because that's five C. seasons worth pretty much.

You've done me dirty there, Ben. You've done me absolutely dirty. He's done us both dirty there, mate, because I had the same thought as you is. So I do want clarification, because I thought I'm going to screw myself. How I've done you, dirty? You've won.

Don't get involved, Ben. Don't get involved. Right. It's one. No, Sam's one. Sam's now a minus one, so Harry is the chance to win this. Go ahead.

Chance to get back to zero. Come on, Harry. You can do it. Most home wins. Number three, please. Nearly got him. Nearly got him. I've sworn.

Oh, nearly got me. You nearly got him. Most home wins. And just to clarify, where I'm saying most home wins, if there's been something like the European Grand Prix, as an example that has taken place in the country, that doesn't count. I'm only looking for the home race, if that makes sense.

Okay, the German GP. The four drivers are Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna, Nigel Mansell, back again, the doc and Michael Schumacher. You can get this one, mate. Michael Schumacher would be the most, I reckon. Nigel second. And then.

And then. And then? Ah, I don't know how many Jim Clark had. More than you. He won a lot. But they are. that have many races. God, Jim Clark then, Senna.

You're a feel. No, no. It's not right. Do you want to give it a go, Sam, just for... I don't want to steal it, but yeah, I'll give it a go. If you know what I mean.

Schumacher, Senna, Manxel Clark is what I've gone for. You're all really putting Jim Clark down, actually. He raced for three days. Well, he did enough to win five home races. Five?

Yeah, he was all right, won't he? He did okay. The only race in the UK. He just won the British GP all the time. He was in Germany. British GP went. Also, he only won the British. Mansell only won the British GP twice.

Did he? Because the Senate only won Brazil twice, right? That's what I thought. Yeah. I thought Jim Clark would be won, and I thought Sengel was three. What, did he win? was it just his last three

91, 92, 93? Maybe he did only go twice. I've got it down as three, but you need to go this one. I know I do. It's your quiz, mate. There's nothing on the line here is there, but... I'm on minus one, so nothing on the line.

Yeah. I thought he won it three times, but maybe it's only twice. Regardless. Do you just make these up? I guess my side. No, I've got the number written down. It's just whether I have thrown it down from or not. He just makes it up.

Anyway. Okay. Sam is the winner. Woo! Rosie points out to the other day that I am. Forget the theme shit. I'm talking over it. I started before you started talking, mate.

This is Formula One. Order, order, please. Anyway, back to what I was saying, before I started singing over myself, Rosie Boy joked the other day that I am not only an incredibly sore loser I am an incredibly sore winner as well really bad at being

Richard Hammond Oh honestly It's like a you know a homo simpsi He's like in your face That is me That's why I host him Because I'm a terrible winner as well I'm losing is even worse

I have to keep it polite for the podcast When Harry beats me I guess I really just try and laugh at myself because it hurts me deep inside. Best segment for last, as always. What is it, Sam? It is the LB question of the week. It's really getting worse and worse

in terms of that theme song, but we move. The question of the week... Oh, don't... You're getting worse and worse as a host. Got him. I wasn't actually talking about your input. I was more talking about Harry taking 10. years to actually come in with his

oh shut out, Ben. Hold on, let me just rephrase the point I made. Harry, you're getting worse and worse as a host. Ben's are a pretty dumb. Also, I would care about what you say about me, Harry, but you just finish with minus one points. I don't really care. The quiz that you made up.

And got everything wrong, apparently. I just looked it up. I think Senor only won twice in Brazil. Good. I've boycotting any further quizzes. Yeah, question of the week. So we put this one out. What is the next analogy Sam will use on the podcast?

Any answers that took your, to your own? Well, I want to hear from you two first, actually, I think, because I feel like it would be interesting at what ones you think are maybe similar or good that I maybe then can incorporate into my life later on. That makes sense. I'm going to say, sorry, Bill. The one that actually really made me laugh,

was one tonian on Instagram, which said Mercedes-Benz and performing like a Rolling Stone, I can't get no grip or traction. Like, come on. That's awful and brilliant. I did like Coprolite was saying, was McLaren are as slow as the slough from the DMV on the movie Zootopia, which is... Oh, yeah, that's a great. Other acceptable moments for slow would be including the snail from Montezink University

when he tries to run into class and it takes all year to get there To be clear, both myself and Sam just impersonated that snail Visual humour Back at it again He'll use a Simpsons reference To say something about Ferrari's poor race last week

That sounds right Certainly as the pizza toppings as they relate to Mercedes upgrades. They really do. You would be shocked at the amount of similarities between pizza toppings and Mercedes upgrades, you know. Let's have a look through some Twitter show. Yeah, dumb electrician on Twitter, Seg.

Ferrari season is in real danger of becoming like a spag bowl, expired by the French Grand Prix. Lots of hope, no spice, and a waste of the number one chef's talent. Brilliant. That's fantastic. Spag bowl.

Oh, God. Christ, put the emphasis on the right part of the word. Just tears and wind you up. It's great. I know. Oh, goodness me. Maclara and Carrey and the Red Bull is like the roadrunner.

Yeah, short and sweet. Love that. I'm saying his carlo is trying to make a cake for the first time. We're getting it down and tasting it and saying, how on the, is something this awful, be created? Let me try again. And then you proceed to you exactly the same thing if he did the first time and then throw it in the big.

That is bang on. That's just like my kangaroo analogy from the Bahrain review, I think. Yeah. Fair. great answers as usual and we'll be back with another one next week as well so what's it going to be we don't know yet that's the beauty of it but check out Instagram and Twitter

we usually post it in the evening of a Monday our time as we are in the UK so early afternoon or so in the US on a Monday if we remember follow us you'll figure it out you'll see it we remember most of the time nowadays but I'm sure next week we will now forget. An hour 22 minute.

How have we been here for so long? Yeah, it's 10 o'clock at night. I'm actually... Oh, I've been wanging on for ages. Yeah. Yeah, we need to shut up. Sam, get us out of it. Okay, bye. No, I'm joking.

Back for the skin. Speaking of long, I hope you've enjoyed it. Again, Patreon, the first episode of your benefit is coming out. Well, it's been recording, actually, tomorrow we're recording it. So, you'll have it very soon. So if you are subscribed to the Patreon, or you want to, you still can. You still can go and join it. It massively supports the show.

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because we're down on the kids. Check out the merch store. We've got some nice designs on there. They look really, really good on you. You look like a sexy, hunker-licious person, regardless of who it is you actually are. You definitely move up by a couple of points. You're all from delicious.

You are. Thanks for listening. We do appreciate it. We're obviously thriving and having a great time at the start of this season. You know how it is. You know how I've been. Anyway, this has gone on hanging up in the meantime.

I've been so insane. I've been Ben Harking. I've been Cleetis Spuckler. I remember that keep breaking like The amount of kicks Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, Nancy Nancy Get your brothers

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