The Late Braking F1 Podcast - How much pressure is F1 under for the Las Vegas GP?

Episode Date: November 12, 2023

The LB trio are here this non-racing Sunday discussing whether the pressure is on for F1 amidst the buildup to the inaugural Las Vegas GP. They also cover the latest in Haas' US GP hearing on track limits, whether Sargeant has done enough for the 2024 Williams seat, and if the current F1 points system is fit for purpose. They finish with a particularly hectic rendition of F1: Back and Forth... 🌎Get Exclusive NordVPN deal here ↣ https://nordvpn.com/lbf1 It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money back guarantee! 👍 FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League BUY our Merch EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you for listening to the late-breaking F-1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. And a very warm welcome to the late-breaking F-1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking.

There's no race on today. What's going on? It's a Sunday, Sam. No race on Sundays. So we're excited. to all look very tired, a very wintry pale, and we're just going to talk about

generic F1 stuff, and we definitely, and by we, I did not panic, put together a game for later on. So we're very organ-in-lised as ever. Very good plans on a Sunday.

We're having a great time. It's been a bad start. I wouldn't say it's been our smoothest start, but we're muddly through. As a trio, we'll get there together. And that is the late-breaking F-1 podcast in a nutshell.

One of the three of us... Why would you be in a nutshell? Not even going to entertain that one. As Sam references, we do have back and forth today, but it's a special Ben versus Harry back and forth. Who knows how that's going to go. We're going to be talking about the F1 point system and whether we think it is fit for purpose

in the current day and age of F1. A little bit on the F1 stewards and their reaction to HASS and their track limits questioning. There's a lot to get into on that one. But we'll start with last... Have you heard, Las Vegas is next week? Oh, you've heard.

Las Vegas is next week. I've got heard. I tell you what, I've... I'm over it already. I'm so done. Do you know what? You know what? Tip me over the edge

with those bloody curbs, painted like cards. And I was like, no, we're done it. I'm out. you're going to steal one mate I want to run down the road with all your back I've checked out

I've got a confession are you like them you love them I quite like those guys bang I'm with you I think they're cool no it's just too much I think those are little touches

have you seen there's an eight minute long TV segment for the introduction oh god before the national anthem it's just got driver introduction

and race intro that's longer than we usually get folks this is the formula this is going to be something. You know what? It almost makes getting up at 6 o'clock worth it. Actually, it's going to be early in that.

The race starts at 6 o'clock. So it almost makes the 5 o'clock start bearable. So hopefully F1 will actually start to market this race at some point within the next seven days. The race actually happens. But to your point, Sam, it's an early start for us in the UK. How much pressure is F1 under for this race to be good? We know the amount of money,

the amount of marketing they are pouring into this. how much pressure is the sport under for it to be a good race? I think F1 as a marketable sport as an entity is under gigantic levels of pressure. And they have heaped it entirely upon themselves. It's fully self-inflicted, I believe. And I know what they've done here. They've gone to use Vegas speech. It's gone all or busts, all or nothing here.

They put in all their eggs into one basket, and they've committed to making Vegas this spectacle. And they've tried to take it away from the likes of Moritz. ago, you know, which was, of course, the jewel in the crown on Formula One. And I think the reason why it's all of bust is because if Vegas goes well, if it's super exciting, if the fans get on board with it, if we get a great race, if the Las Vegas track supports good racing, I'm not sure about it, but we'll see. Then I think they will cap the point where they go, we've got the American market.

Formula One is still very much in its assurgency into what, you know, into the American market, into North America. It's still not the size it is in Europe by any means. Even in South America, some parts of Asia, the Americas is still nowhere near one of their biggest markers. It's still very much in its growth phase. And I do think that if Vegas is a giant here, they can kick on from that point.

They go, that works. Look at the spectacle we're created. Look at the, it's on the level of the Super Bowl, which you all love and want to watch every single year. We've got Las Vegas. And I think that's what they're hoping for. But if this bombs, if this absolutely flounders.

If it's like a fish line on the side of the road after a bad storm, flapping around, going, where's the water? Bring me back the water. And it's nowhere to be found, much like Las Vegas.

Isn't that the plot to Shark Nedo? Watch it, folks. It's a wild ride. Now, honestly, Las Vegas will very much run out of air, I think, in America. And I don't know how much more it will be able to step up

just using marketing ploys like drive, to survive, like having a race in Miami. I think they need this spectacle to work to really go, we've stepped above the growth phase. We've moved into the, we're a permanent fiction now on sports TV. We want to be in people's homes. There's merchandise and shops everywhere. This is, I think, the final moment that cemented Formula One in North America as a

it's here to stay and you're going to bloody love it. Otherwise, I think it just becomes a B-rate sport. Sorry, folks, if you're watching this on video on YouTube, Ben, are you going to heaven? Is this it? The light has opened upon Ben and he's the risen. Oh, that's such a visual reference, but that's incredible. I'm going to try and rearrange a little bit.

That's so funny. Oh, this is folks, we're talking about Sing City here, and Ben has been lifted into the heavens. He is being absorbed of his things, and he will not have to deal with the pain. Ben resist touching the light. He made his sense. disappear forever.

Stay with us, Ben, we need you. I was trying to work it out and then I realized this is quite an unusual, at least recently, an unusual time of day for us to be recording. We have been a lot of evening races recently, and we record our midweek episodes in the evening. But it was fine before we started recording, and now I'm actually blind. Baved in the Holy Light. Oh, Lord. Right.

Vegas. Harry, what are you for? Do you think this is make or break, as Sam suggests? I don't think it's all down to this one race we've got but I agree with Sam in that this feels like the final piece of the puzzle in F1's presence in North America My worry is

I've seen a lot of commentary over the past week about how F1 have got this wrong because I don't know if anyone's been paying attention to the weather in Vegas during November but it's quite cold at night It's juicy Oh, it's proper, like, UK cold and it's cold here. One of the coldest races of all time, possibly cold.

And they're saying that F1, I misjudged this and it's going to be a disaster. I don't think they have. I think they know exactly what they're doing. And my worry is that it's going to be, do you remember we went to Saudi in 2021 for the first time? And it was just Hamilton of a sapping aside. It was carnage, that entire race. And then F1 sort of came away. We're like, what a race.

It wasn't a race. It was stupid and I hate Saldi. But anyway, my worry is we're going to have this. This is what F1 is marketing it as. And we're going to have a carnage-filled race. We are. Not necessarily a good race, but a carnage one. And they're going to deem it a success and we move on.

And I'm like, I don't know if I, I don't know if I want that. But that's the way I see it going if we're going to be racing in five degrees. And it might rain at some point during the weekend as well. Good. Good. It rained when I was in Vegas. It's a site. It's a sight to see it raining in a desert.

I think maybe apart from what, Turkey 2020, in terms of the modern era, this could be the coldest Grand Prix we've seen in a good 20 years. Nuremberg Ring 2020 was Friesian, wasn't there? I think the coldest one, I even looked at up, is the 78 Canadian Grand Prix, I think it was. That's the absolute coldest. But this is going to be up there with the top three or four coldish GPs we've ever had. And boy, them cars don't work well while it's cold. No.

I mean, the tyres will, they will know. They will not do the tire thing. We're on strike. Hasn't gonna win. Hasn't gonna win. No tire wear. Through their tires. Come on, man.

Could you imagine? Anyway, so yeah, I, I, I don't know if, it is a worry for me because I just, I just, I just think it's gonna be chaotic and ridiculous. And F1 will be like, that was great. And, you know, it'll probably work for them and, and help cement their place in America. but I just think this weekend's going to be, I'm not prepared for it. I'm in my mind. I'm not ready for this.

But yeah, I think it's going to be, it's going to be a big weekend. F1R clearly going all out here. I mean, even the pictures of like the pit building with the massive F1 sign on top of it. It is quite cool.

That is cool. But like this is my boy. Like it's, they are going for it. And I think they know how important this is for them. So, yeah, I'm not saying if it somehow doesn't end up being a chaotic race, which I'm struggling to see how that would happen. I still don't think that's like game over for F1.

I mean, we went to Caesar's Palace more than once, right? Yeah, a couple of times. Well, there you go then. So if we can do the car park race a couple of times, then we'll give this track a few chances as well. But my feeling is it's going to be carnage and they're going to say, well, done, us pat ourselves on the back. I've just read.

I've just read that they're hosting a recovery brunch inside the sphere on Sunday morning. We're there. Have you got to see us, folks. We're on this year. Recovery brunch. Recovery brunch. To recover from what is going to be the race. Literally.

We might need to meet up for recovery brunch. I think we'll have to. Good Lord. We build our own sphere out of cardboard and bubble wrap. Yes. Oh my. Let's chat off there about that. Can I get a quick question?

Ben, you'll bring her. this because you are the featable knowledge. I noticed now. How long is the contract with Vegas? Is it a decade? I don't actually know. I say classic. One bit of info that Ben has no idea of.

He did that to him on the live show as well about Nico Rosberg winning the US GP and that's a Wikipedia right in front of 70 people. I was very wrong. That was quite funny though. And there aren't 70 people here today, I'm afraid. Just three. I don't know whether, I think you're absolutely

spot on, by the way, Harry. And yeah, I don't know, maybe if this race doesn't go very well, we're back to the car park next year. That's how it'll work. Get the moated back down. Back to the car park. I agree with you that I think F1 knows what it's doing here in terms of creating carnage. You know, whether it goes, whether it's a good race or a chaotic race remains to be seen. I think if you were to present F1 with the two options. Chaotic race or good race, they would probably take the chaotic race for the amount of sound bites and short clips that they'll be able to feed out for the rest of eternity off

the back of that. Part of me does think that it might be, I don't know what the right phrase is, whether it's like a necessary evil or just like, would a chaotic race be the worst thing in the world to increase the buzz and the engagement around the race in, you know, in particular, which then might get people semi-involved to go out and look at other better races. So I don't know if in the long term it might actually be a good thing to increase the overall base of F1 supporters in the USA. You know, it could be a misrepresentation if it is chaotic and people are expecting that every single race. But yeah, those cold temperatures, that is going to be interesting to see how that goes.

is it going to go in the direction of a new race like Saudi Arabia or Turkey, as you reference? Is it going to be Baku-esque, where the first race we expected carnage there didn't happen, much to Nico Rosberg's delight. Yeah, I think it remains to be seen what we're going to get. But I agree with the first point you make sound that there is immense pressure on F1 here because firstly, just look at time zones. they are putting on a Grand Prix in Las Vegas. They're making this a marquee event.

They're putting it on at 10pm US Pacific time where the race is being held, which will then become 1 a.m. for anyone on the East Coast. It's 6 a.m. for anyone in the UK. It's 7 a.m. for mainland Europe. I'm not suggesting that those are the only key markets of F1 because, of course, that's not the case. But you are taking a huge chunk of your audience

and either making people stay up or get up for it. And you've got to give people a reason to. If this race doesn't end up being very good, that decreases your chances that people are going to make the effort next year. So I think there's a lot on that. Just, for example, I'm not saying our audience is completely representative of F1's audience. But if you were to look at the US, mainland Europe and UK, that's like 80% of our audience.

It's a huge chunk of what F1 is appealing to. in a less than ideal time zone. So I think there's a lot of pressure on it. You're right. They are putting this as a marquee event. If it doesn't perform as a marquee event, that's a problem. So yeah, I think the US is in a bit of a, sorry, the sport is in a bit of a tough, not a tough time,

but it is, I think, going to go one of two ways after this Grand Prix. I think you could make the argument that interest in F1 is, starting to mature or plateau in the US, but this could then kick on to another, to another degree, because F1 still has room to grow. It's still not on the level of NASCAR in the US as an example. So, you know, whether F1 becomes the number one go-to motorsport in the US or whether it kind of just stays where it is right now, a lot could be riding on this weekend, I think, on next week. On a much more minute scale, they've miffed off quite a lot of people in last Vegas, haven't they?

They pulled up a lot of trees. And have you seen that the Bellagio fountains haven't got any water in them? For like the first time in like 60 years or something like that. They just sucked the water out. Turn off. Good. Turn off. Formula 1 Zing out.

We want grandstands. Screw your fountains. Fountains of beer and fuel. Anyway, they've upset a lot of people. Have you seen that all the bridges as well? Have I, you know, like Plasker seen put up so you can't see the view of the track. on the British because that's a free view apparently.

So they are, they're just annoying a lot of people. Nope. No free race for you, M-9s. Any thoughts in the massive price drops of tickets and hotels and the like? Because the last couple of weeks has come down pretty dramatically, Sam. We can almost go at this point. They're really almost giving them away. Leaving a bit late, I reckon.

Ah, I reckon we can fly out tomorrow if someone wants to pay for it. Yeah, there's definitely a fight's going. Yeah, no, it says a lot. The fact they haven't sold out the first. event of this kind is ridiculous because you look at the other events that do sell out rapidly are still very much the classic grand prix you know your mons are tends to go incredibly quickly silverstone flies out the door there are tracks like this that have been around since the dawn on formula one that every year like a you know like a whistle it's gone you blow your whistle and the tickets

are off bye-bye now none for you yet las Vegas and some of the other america grand prix Miami as well and i think even cota which has been there for you know what nearly a decade or a decade now they're putting tickets in Walmart, in supermarkets, they're advertising them in shops that you can buy a little gift card to get a ticket. And that is almost an unheard of phenomenon in the world of Formula One, that tickets are this close to a Grand Prix are not only readily available, they are having to be slashed in discount prices. And I must admit, I'd be quite annoyed.

If I bought my ticket like nine months ago, and I saw that a ticket to stay at the Blasio Hotel and the Grandstown seat and come down in almost half the price, I'd be like, I want that rate, please. because this is a bit of a mickey-taking. It's not promising. It tells you that the American fan base are not getting on board

with a Grand Prix like this that often. Maybe they're sport for choice. I don't know. It's a whole continent. They've only got as many races as still less races than Europe has. But it isn't great that the first Grand Prix we've had here

in, what, 40 years or whatever it is, cannot sell out. It's a worrying statistic. Any thoughts at all on the prices being slashed, Harry? I mean, it's still worth mentioning that a, massive price reduction from where they started is still far more expensive than most other Grand Prix,

but it's still quite a massive come down from where they were. Yeah, I agree with what you say, Sam. It's fairly normal, though, I think, for this to happen. I think there's just a lot of scrutiny because of the massive price of these tickets and there's a lot of scrutiny about these tickets coming down quite so much in price. But in the run up to an event, you know, you get rid of your last bit of stock, don't you? So it's, I guess, I'm worried, like, say something, they have not actually sold it out, but I don't know,

I don't think I'd want to be that worried, will they? They're making so much money of this damn event. Like, I don't think they're going to be too worried if they don't sell every single last ticket, and that's why the prices have come down for these last ones that are remaining. So, yeah, I can understand why they haven't, but the fact that I don't think there's a huge amount left from, well, I don't, I don't, I don't speak to the promoter, but I don't, why not? He doesn't listen to the podcast.

Call him up, why? He's not a friend, no. We're calling you out, promoter. Jeff Vegas, as he's called. Hello, Jeff Vegas. If you could get in touch, please. Mr. G. Vegas. Yeah, so, but I, you know, we've not had reports that they've not been able to sell any.

This sounds like they're just getting rid of the last lot. So, I guess it is a concern, but, but, but, also I just don't think F1 are they going to be that worried about it, to be honest. I think from like a spectacle point of view as well, I'm not saying that F1 will want to keep people away, obviously, but I think if you were to have slightly less than 100% capacity at, let's say, Miami using another recently introduced Grand Prix in the US, that would look a bit weird.

Like if you would see empty grandstands at Miami, that would look a bit odd because, there's nothing compensating for it, if that makes sense. I know it's next to the stadium, but outside of that, it's not going through the stadium. So it still seems not small time. You could put that,

if you take the stadium away, there's nothing really about the track itself that screams Miami, apart from obviously the water that exists. That's fantastic. Plastic water. One day. One day. But point being, like Las Vegas itself,

is kind of the backdrop in that you could put no one there and they've still got all of the images, all of the videos they'll ever need to show that F1 has been in Vegas and it's kind of just being there itself, which is the promoters, what the promoters after. So yeah, I agree with what both of you said on that one. Let's take our first short break on the other side. We'll be discussing stewards.

Great. Someone called Stuart. Jewett. Jackie. Jackie Stewart. Jackie Stewart. God's sake. That's terrible, terrible banter. It's poor. Okay, so myself and Sam

discussed midweek the ongoing Haas track limits saga and whether it would go any further. We were expecting the hearing to be on Wednesday for that and it was not. It happened on Thursday instead when the FIA promptly rejected Hasse's

new information, essentially, to give some context on this, they just presented on boards of what... Are you joking? I couldn't believe this when I read that. I was like, literally. What? And I was, I even said, I've been saying it's a huge concern how Haas have got a hold of this magical data.

How, what is this new footage? It's not new. It's not, it's just on board the live TV. It's like Ferrari using Karin-chan docks footage. Yeah. Yeah. That's what has needed. Hasse needed new and what's the term. It's significant and relevant new evidence, which they did not have because they just presented things that were already available.

Everyone's turned up for establishing a coffee and then going, is that it? God's sake. Pretty much. Anyway, the actual point we want to discuss coming out of this is from the FIA stewards because they had the following to say, given that notwithstanding the formal, outcome of this decision. The stewards have seen individual pieces of evidence that show what appear to be potential track limit breaches at the apex of turn six. They find their inability to properly enforce the current standard for track limits for all competitors completely unsatisfactory,

and therefore strongly recommend all concern that a solution to prevent further reoccurrences of this widespread problem be rapidly deployed. Sam, what were your thoughts when you read that? multiple things, if I'm honest, Ben, there's so many tangents that I think you could go off on this strange conversation. Firstly, it's baffling that Formula One, which we all call the pinnacle of motorsport,

is the only motorsport that can't police this regularly and consistently. I think all the junior formally have no problem with it. I think Motor GP have no problem with it. I think endurance racing has no problem with it. I think even rally, where you're allowed to drive pretty much wherever you want, has no problem with it. So the fact that Formula One, which goes around the same 24 tracks and increasing, every single year,

are unable to work out when a car is within play and not in play is hilarious, still absolutely hilarious. It also feels a bit like, you know, you know the Spider-Man meme where they're all pointing at each other, but they're all Spider-Man? It kind of feels like I'm a steward, but I've got a problem. So let me point at another steward who's got a problem. And let me point out the other part of the Formula One who's got a problem. But you all work for the same organisation, and you're all here to policing and enforce the rule. and now you're calling out your own organisation

about not being able to enforce the rules properly. How do we not have state-of-the-art cameras ready to go? How do we not have track sensors ready to go? How is it not a system on the size of the cracks, such as gravel or grass that make it very clear when something has been broken? There are endless solutions. There are endless methods of employing can be done

that can resolve this problem. And yet none of them seem to happen. And now the stewards have released a statement calling out their own organisation that means that they're unable to do their job. despite this problem for what? A decade longer? You know, trap limits have become more of a talking point recently,

I think as the sport has been more scrutinized. But I don't understand how this has become such a difficult thing to police and enforce. It's the limits of your playing field. We've said it so many times. In football, you've got the white lines that run around the edge. They have cameras. If the ball goes out of play,

the ball goes out of play and the referee makes that decision. I don't understand why this is so difficult in Formula One and why it's such a contentious topic. that needs to be brought up so many times. So pretty amazing at the statement, pretty shocks, also very FIA to call themselves out on their own issues and then go what are we going to do about it and not have a solution ready to go.

So funny, also ridiculous. What did you make of it, Harry? Yeah, I think to, sorry, excuse me, to Sam's point there, I understand what they're saying here because the stewards and the FIA actually, despite being part of the FIA, they work separately,

and this is why they're saying that. But that's the problem. Because how the hell, what does this look like from the outside? It looks like one organisation that just can't get themselves organized. And it just looks bad on F1 because it's like you say,

it's pointing fingers at each other. So, yeah, it's a, it's a, that's a very FIA thing to do, isn't it? it blame, blame yourself. Can't be blamed for things if you blame yourself, which is a good, there's a good way to get through your life. But yeah, it like sort, sort this out. If the F1 stewards are saying this isn't right, then it's time, it's time to change something. But yeah, even, you know, as we've just talked about with F1 in Vegas, you know, the marketing behind it, F1 being marketable to a wider and ever-growing audience, this is so like, unless you're a bunch

and nerds like we are. This is so boring and not even complicated, just stupid to explain to someone watching F1, like for the first time or, you know, in their first season. Why do we have these two separate entities, but they're all part of the same entity

and why are they blaming each other for not doing something right? So that, I think that needs to change. I think that needs to change first. And then obviously the track, we've gone over track limits policing over and over again. But they need to get them. their organizational structure sorted out before anything else, to be honest. Yeah, I think this is probably the most embarrassing case of the year in terms of track limits,

because it's not the first. We've had what happened to Austria where literally every single driver under the sun had 100 seconds worth of penalties. And then we had Qatar, which was marginally better, but still along that same line of operating. but at least in both of those instances, yes, the drivers were annoyed, but that was on the drivers. And we said it at the time.

It was on the drivers who decided to break track limits and they got penalized for it. They had a lot of complaining. They thought it made the sport look like a joke. But hey, the stewards were just enforcing the rules at that point, and it worked. This is for me far more embarrassing in that this is an admission that the stewards cannot do their job.

And you're right, Harry, it is important to raise the distinction between the stewards and the FIA. The stewards are past the information and they work with what they're given, ultimately. They're not in control of what they're provided. They can make recommendations like they have here, but ultimately they're past the information and then they do something about it. And it is a completely independent process. So whilst I agree it is convoluted, I think separating the FIA and the F1

stewards is almost necessary to maintain any levels of, you know, bias or just to make sure it's completely independent and as, I don't know, cheat proof as possible to have those two independent bodies working alongside each other. I agree completely that it's confusing to the outside and maybe that needs to be cleared up a little bit, but I can understand why they operate the way that they do. There's a reason when you want the most impartial auditing possible, you get an external company to do it and you don't do it yourself.

So I think that's probably why they do exist as two separate entities. But it is embarrassing nonetheless. I mean, you've got your point about football and other sports. Could you imagine any other sport where a decision can't be made because you can't see the field of play,

which is essentially what's happened here? It would be, you'd be ridiculed. It'd be laughed at in any other sport. and yet here in F1 it's just seen as another race. The report itself is utterly scathing. I mean, just to pick out a few pieces of evidence, multiple. They make sure that they want to stay that. Completely unsatisfactory is another quote from it.

And widespread problem. They're not saying that it's unsatisfactory and there's a problem. They're saying it's completely unsatisfactory and that it's a widespread problem. They have fully gone in on the FIA on this, and it makes sense. Firstly, I think they're right anyway, but secondly, if the FIA is not to blame for this, who is to blame for this? The stewards, because if they're not pointing the finger at the FIA, they are essentially admitting, well, has presented evidence that we already had

and we didn't make a decision on it. Ah, that doesn't look very good on us, does it? FIA's fault because we didn't have enough to work with. I mean, what else? I can understand why they've gone down that route. I'm starting to think, I'm worried now. I'm starting to think that there's an issue here in that the CCTV camera at turn six couldn't see the apex of the corner,

which is the fundamental reason why they couldn't apply a penalty, which in itself is utterly embarrassing. I don't know if you know, folks, but when we were in Austin, we were granted permission to go into race control. Did we accidentally press a button and move the camera? We're not going to talk about this any further through a mission of guilt. It's having the next break. Oh no.

Yeah, so maybe it wasn't down to us. But yeah, the fact that a CCTV camera wasn't looking in the right place is the reason why this can't be applied. That doesn't look good. What is the solution, Sam? What do they do? I think it's a number of different variations. I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all problem, but I do think, firstly,

I'm going to sound like we're back in the good old days here. You know, James Hunt, men were men. James, I'm best pal. It's all right, pal. There's some bloody punishment in if you go over the track limits. You know, you're not going to... I don't give it a lot of credit, but in Monaco, do you see them cutting the corners a lot?

Not really. Why? It's a bloody wall, mate. It's not a cute little thing you do for fun. It's not cute and kooky. Go, oh, I touch the wall, is it? But you kind of go, actually. Cooky walls, I shouldn't have hit the wall because I broke the track limits.

In Austin, Texas, as much as we had a bloody great time, and as much as the track itself is fantastic to watch racing go round in, you can drive for miles. Have you seen other formulas and other racing groups go round the USGP? They don't do after call, because there's that much runoff at Vegas go, we're going over there now. And then we might, we might. like come back over here in a minute.

Who knows? That Porsche race we watched at Austin. They didn't have the same track limit as rules. They went everywhere. Didn't matter where we went. The big Texan star that's at the end of the straight covered in tire marks because they don't respect you, Texas. What are you going to do about it?

Obviously, that's one, right? Put some gravel in, get some grassing. Give them a punishment for breaking the rules. It's one of the good things about screen circuits. You look at Singapore. A mistake is made. You're out of the race. George Russell on the last lap, right?

These straights slightly wider the track. Lost his front wheel. Game over. You see punishment. Secondly, we've got enough bloody money in this sport, right? It's almost a trillion dollar industry at this point. Well, he puts some more cameras in place and then fit the cars with the right sensors that means that you can see when someone goes out of play. You have things like Hawkeye in tennis for crying out now that can catch a tennis ball at 170 miles an hour as it goes slightly out of the line. You could do it in a bloody massive Formula One car. It's got to be possible. There are enumeration of systems. someone that simply only works entirely on track limits. So their only job is to monitor track limits for the whole thing. There are so many solutions that they can bring in here.

And they're just not. For some reason, they're just not willing to employ a lot of them. But they're going to moan about it in this scaling report that basically insinuates that they themselves don't know how to do their own jobs in an efficient manner that brings a lot of jeopardy into the sport for both new followers and old. So I think it's quite simple how many things they can put in place. I don't think it's hard to find a solution. think they can't be bothered to employ the solution.

What do you think, Harry? Yeah, the issue is that the track limit issues on every, it's not a universal issue in terms of every track we go to, as it sounds already mentioned, Monaco, streets, other street circuits, but even some other, you know, actual circuits like Austria, for example. We do, we, well, Austria is a bad example. But ones with. like gravel traps and stuff automatically there's no real issues

although we still managed to find issues in Austria but where they are I think introducing more gravel for next year exactly so I think that's the issue because at the moment the F1 or FIA are trying to they're doing it policing it by like a race by race

basis and this is why I think we're getting these inconsistencies in terms of what the rulings are etc I think there needs to be like a blanket approach to everything and for those circuits to do have lots of tarmac runoff, which is fine because they are actually proven to be safer. I think we still need. And I think maybe Karun Chandok has said this before.

You just have like next to the curb, I don't know how wide, a strip of grass or gravel, something that basically you don't cover the whole runoff area in it, but just a bit of grass next to the curb because they'll never, drables will never go over that then. They'll stick to the curb. If they go wider, they end up on this bit of graphs. and then, you know, lap ruined or you're going slower. Just, it feels like we need to do this.

I don't know whether the ground solution is, the actual solution, but something that is put in place everywhere, every circuit we go to where it's needed, not street circuits, because at the moment. A moat, yes. You fall into the moat.

You fall into the moat. And if you touch it, you drown. Yeah, I mean, fair doce. That'll work. Hey, or stop track limits. I'm going to go with no on that one. All right. No, Moats, it's a shame.

I don't think it's a good thing for F1 if drivers drown. It'd be like being back on the 50s and they used to fall on the harbour. I think it would bring a lot of viewers. Maybe like Takeshi's Castle, we should fire golden balls at them as they get too close to the edge of the track. All good ideas start and end with Takeshi's castle. So, yeah, so Mote's. modes, right. I'm glad we got to that conclusion.

Yeah, I think this is fair. It should be fairly straightforward and it's not. And I agree fundamentally with the idea that, you know, the more punishment we can put in place on the, you know, whether it is Corinchanok's idea from there or just something in place, the more we can do that, the better. The reality is, as you mentioned, Harry, with other motorsports, that's not always feasible.

every corner. So we do need something in place for where that's not an option. And yeah, it should be with the amount of data points, the amount that AWS can do within motorsport, how have we not reached a technological solution where we can have sensors on the cars that if they go over, it immediately notified? How have we not reached that point? How are we still relying on a combination? We're still relying on a combination of, eyesight on board and CCTV. And if any of those three fail, which can happen and does happen, we're screwed. So I don't understand why we, in a 15 billion pound sport, we can't find a better solution to the problem than what we have at the moment. Again, the stewards can only work

with what they are given. And it's not the steward's job to find a solution for this. They are presented with the evidence and they make decisions off the back of it. The actual getting the evidence to them is not on them. It's on the FIA and that's something they need to look at. I don't think there's any point in hastily doing something over the next two Grand Prix, but make it a priority over the winter break to make sure that when we get into 2024, we have a solution that as Harry mentions, is blanket and works at all circuits. This is completely unrelated, so I apologize, but you reminded me by AWS. Brazil last weekend, final few laps, a graphic popped up and me and Sam, we spoke about this, an actually useful graphic,

which was Perez and Alonzo's battery usage. Where have they been hiding that one for years? It's just they'd be working on. They'd be working on super close to the wall, and that was the priority. Yeah, they've used it once or twice this season before, but it's been very sporadic. I'm absolutely with you.

It's a great graphics. What's a great graphic? More of that, especially that battle. Recordings of it. We've surely got enough million sentences on these things to see you, regular update of this stuff. When we had curs, we used to, you can see live when they're pressing the curs button. How have we gone backwards?

In the car, pushed your pass. You have an immediate feedback of it's being used in a countdown start. So they're a way of, sorry, I'm getting wild up with. Yeah, this is turning into an AWS rant, but I just, that reminded me, and I didn't remember saying it on the post-Rase podcast. But yeah, more useful telemetry, please, AWS and not super close to the wall. the most useful thing AWS has done since confirming that

Yarno truly is a top 10 qualifier of all time. Thank you very much Amazon. The goat lives on. Right, we'll take our next short break. On the other side, we're going to be discussing Logan and Sergeant. Okay, we're coming out of a triple header, which is three races in a row.

How many races in a row, some? Thank you. Has this run of races changed your opinion whatsoever on what William should do with their remaining seat? go to Logan Sargent, should it go elsewhere and has anything impacted your decision? He has been better. I'm going to come out and say it.

It has been, I mean, I think the USGP helps getting every single car, but in all get to freeze, into the points, you know, in the season is pretty good. And every team has got points, you know, it's, it's great for Formula One to show that that's possible. And Logan Sargent was kind of the lackey at the back who was struggling to kind of take that final step. And okay, it took a couple of disqualifications for it to happen, but he got there and he was in the right place. He was only a couple of seconds away from Albon. And if Albon picked up a trap penalty, he would have a beaten Albon, which is great. I do think, you know, Qatar, for example,

he was also very good around there. And he very bravely, if we've already spoken, took himself out of the railing well. And I think that was correct. And it shows good temperament and good understanding of risk versus reward. And I think that's very, very strong for a driver. they still hit and miss. It's still very up and down. Brazil wasn't spectacular for him. But do I think he is the man that should stay in that seat for another season? Oh, I think what is saving Logan Sargent is I don't think there is a 100% obvious replacement ready to go who should step into that seat.

Someone like Mick Schumacher has already been removed from the equation. They haven't got a brilliant driver in F2 that is pushing the boundaries that they could pick up and move straight in. and I think they can have to go outside of their own area to try and get someone if they wanted to. Someone like a poor share, for example, which means they have to haggle off of another team, which is costly. Right now, it does genuinely feel safer for Logan Sargent, Florida man himself, to get another drive for next season.

And I'm kind of all right with it because I do like rookies getting more time to develop. Do I think we've seen the absolute best of Logan Sargent? No, I think there have been glimpses. And I think Yuki Sanoda is a fair. example here of someone who had quite a chaotic season one and has got some better. They've not maybe develops into the absolute well-beat to that some people thought he could be, but he has improved and he solidified himself as a mid-table driver that consistently does all right.

Logan's sergeant could be the same. So right now, while there's not an immediate and obvious example to put in that car, I'm kind of okay with him being there. Anything changed to your mind, Harry? I, yeah, like Sam says, the last three, the last three, So the last three races are Brazil, USA, Qatar, right? Qatar was before that? Oh, Mexico.

Mexico, Mexico, US. Yeah, sorry. So from, so the last three races after Qatar. And I think there was a worry after, well, at least in my side, a worry after Qatar that he, as Sam said, he had a good pace in Qatar. But obviously then had to retire the car or had to retire himself, I guess, from that race. And I was worried that maybe this would, you know, knock him back again. but I think he's he's bounced back from that quite strongly and I think one of the,

apart from the crashing a lot, which he has also stopped. So well done. Well done. Logan. But the other thing that was the bigger issue, I think was this pace relative to Albon, which I think in these last three races has improved quite drastically.

Obviously, the points are, you know, a huge thing. But I think for Williams, it's more about making sure they've got a, second driver who can be close, not necessarily beating him, but close to Albon on a regular basis, which for a good chunk of this year, apart from maybe the first couple of races, Sargent has been absolutely nowhere. So I think, yeah, the past three races have done him a world of good. I think Williams are going to keep him anyway, but this is certainly helping his chances. He's just going to make sure he carries this form on. Last couple of races, obviously Vegas and

Abu Dhabi, but, and obviously if he gets a seat, then push on into next year and continue that. It's the inconsistency that has been letting him down so far this year. So if he, I think if he carries on at this rate, then yeah, he should get a second, a second year. And as you say, Sam, there's not really an oven ready to quote a politician from the UK. An oven ready, thank you, an oven ready driver to replace him. Okay, Boris Johnson made it onto the podcast. We are Brexit. But there isn't.

As you say, there just isn't like a real obvious, Logan, you shouldn't be here anymore because this driver's going to be, he's going to be better than you in that seat. So, yeah, I think that's working on, to his benefit.

I'm out on Logan, Sergeant. Oh, he's done. Wow. Ben, the harsh. The pessimistic begg is back. I'm out on him. I think he has shown a few more encouraging signs as of late, but for me, it's not quite enough to justify his place in F1.

I think if you look at the last three races, you look at the pure results, and I appreciate results, don't always tell the full story, but if you look at the results, USGP, qualified 20th, sprint shootout 20th, spring race 19th, then obviously finished 10th in the race itself. Mexico was 20th, didn't settle lap in qualifying, and then retired from the Grand Prix, and then the Brazilian Grand Prix he qualified 19th, sprint shootout 20th, sprint 20th,

and then he finished 11th in a Grand Prix where realistically only 12 were actually... I don't know what you're wrong about, Ben. That's to me, that's two back rows to almost points. One points finish wrong almost. He's flying. You can't give him respect

for the Brazilian Grand Prix. I mean... Don't know what you're wrong about, mate. He's having a siesta over it. When you take out of... the five D&Fs, the one did not start, the two drivers that were impacted on the first lap and were a lap down, there's only 12 drivers left at the Brazilian Grand Prix. I'm not giving much respect for 11th place.

Got being it, so he bought a ticket, a nearly one. He nearly won. If the number one reason for keeping Logan Sargent is he bought a ticket, I think we're in trouble. I think he's those of promotion. I just think, yeah. I think he's a victim of the success of the likes of Piastri and Lawson, where Piastri's come in, year one, done a very good job. Liam Lawson came in mid-season, did a very good job.

These are rookie drivers that are performing very early on, where Logan Sargent just hasn't. Even if you look back one year, Joe Guan Yu, he was quite regularly out qualifying Valtry Botas by the end of his first season. He made progress. And Yuki Sanoda, I think he showed more in his rookie season than Logan Sargent has. and I think the reason we're giving him a lot of leeway is that his previous reference point is Nicholas Latifi who full, I love Nicholas Latifi, but he's one of the worst drivers we've had in the last 10 years in F1.

So if that's the benchmark, it's a bit worrying. And I actually agree, I think they will keep him because, and I don't think there is an obvious candidate and anyone who I felt would be a better option is kind of already taken up for next year now. because they haven't gone with them. So the likes of Drugovich and poor share are probably the two I'd have mentioned.

They're already signed on as still being reserved drivers of their respective teams. Now, I'm sure if Williams really wanted to, they could probably get either of those drivers out of that and into their seat. Just ask Alex Albon. That's exactly what they did with him.

They got him out of an FE seat to, well, it wasn't Williams, but Red Bull got him out of that seat. So they have experienced within their own team of something like that. happening. But yeah, I don't know. I just think you look, it is Piastrian Lawson. You look at those two and I think they prove what you can do in a rookie season. You don't have to be perfect, but you've got to show, I think, more than what Sergeant has shown. Do you think a Lawson's a viable

option, as it's not in the Alphotauri? But do you think for Williams, that's only a one-year deal and therefore they probably don't want it? Yeah, if I was Williams, I probably wouldn't go for Lawson over Sargent. And the reason is exactly. what you said in that it would be a short-term loan deal. And ultimately, they experienced that with Russell, where they had him for a number of years, but they always knew it was temporary. I think what Alex Albin has been showing that as soon as you give a competent driver

who is committed to your team, the power to sort of be that number one driver, it can really work. But I think unless they were absolutely claiming Lawson properly, which I don't think Red Bull would do, I don't think it would be worth them taking him. but, you know, there is a realistic chance, speaking of Al-Fatari,

there is a realistic chance Al-Fatari can go on and beat Williams in the championship now. That is going to cost them millions and millions, and there's no other way to say it. That will be because of Logan Sargent, and it will be his lack of performance that cost them that position if that happens. I wonder if,

if, UK-Sin-Otner is actually a long-term object for Williams, because I don't think he's got a future of the rebel family anymore. I think with how well-law did with Ricardo, yeah, right, there would be Sonoda and Albon would go to Williams and then Toto Wolf would cry because his former ally is becoming entirely Red Bull won's team essentially. Could you imagine?

Yeah. A few months ago that's exactly what I'd have done because I thought that it should have been Ricardo and Lawson in the Alphatari seat for next year and Yuki Sanoda would have been prime, you know, option number one for Williams alongside Album. That's exactly what I don't know. No, I think it.

Everyone would have been happy. Well, maybe not Logan, Sergeant. Oh dear. but he's got 11 place of the Brazilian Grand Prix so he doesn't care, does he? It's a bowler. Last the points. Last, almost a point.

Got to shout somewhere. If only there had been a combined seven DNFs and did not stars. God damn. Like I've been wrung in that train all the way down to the Williams garage. She'd get him another seat. I've got to thank you, Sam,

because that is an absolutely unintendedly brilliant segue to the next topic, which is the current point system. and whether it's fit for purpose. Now, we've had the current point system in place since 2010, 25 points for first down to one for 10th place, the only two exceptions, that being the fastest lap rule that was introduced a few years ago

and the 2014 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, which we won't talk about. But outside of that, the point system has been in place and has been steady since the beginning of 2010. So next year, it will be the 15th year that that's been in place. Obviously, we have, and Brazil's not a great representation of this, we do have much better reliability these days. So we are having increasing

battles for P-16, P-15, P-18 that obviously don't really count for anything in terms of championship points. So Sam, I wanted to bring up the topic of whether it's still fit for purpose. Should we look at updating this in any way? It's a really tricky conversation because I think

on the pure face of it, I like the current points layout. I like that you get a bit more for a wing. I like, you know, it walks you could push forward for that victory. And again, is all in theory and all on paper. I'll get to the practicality of it in a minute. You know, first place on 25 gives you that kind of, I've won the race. I should get that extra little extra reward that you've gone and done it. You know, you've won the race. And the same really for second to third. Obviously, you've got that three point gap from

second back to third and there's a seven point gap from second to first. And then it starts condensed to those two points and then all the way down to the one point between ninth and 10th. And I think that makes sense. The way of doing that works well for me. The higher you get up, the bigger your reward would be. It would be weird if it was the other way around. So I like that. In practicality, within Formula One, the problem here is we're living in an era of dominance, right?

Mercedes dominated, and then before that, Red Bull dominated. And then we had a little bit of playtime, and then before that Ferrari dominated, and now we're in, again, Red Bull domination. So when the championship can almost be decided seven races before the end of a season, because the winner, Max Verstappen,

who has been faultless, brilliant, goes ahead of wings, what is it, 17 Grand Prix in a season, then it's very difficult for Engelan to ever

contend where he scores 25 points every single time and it's seven more, and it's seven more. So even if, let's say, Charlotte Claire, finished second, every single Grand Prix,

doesn't matter, because by the halfway, way, halfway through the season, he's already about five races in terms of points behind. And that is tricky to over them. That system does fall,

apart a little bit in the sense that if you do have a car that is a little bit better than others, it's very difficult to have a turnaround in form or a turnaround ability. Look at how well McLaren have done. They have been regularly scoring more points in pretty much changing else, maybe other than Red Bull across the second half of this season. And yet, there's still so much further behind Mercedes and Ferrari, because the points don't allow it to be close. It doesn't allow it to close up.

Equally at the back end of the points, I think it works well that, of course, you should only pick up one or two points with finishing in the back end of the points. but if we do have more teams coming in with the midfield being so much closer, should there be more reward? I think if we went up to 24 cars, I wouldn't really have too much for a problem with 12th place being the final point scorer.

But I think that might be a conversation for another day. I'm not giving it too much thought. I don't give much things too much thought. But I do think that makes sense to extend it to carry on to be 50% of the grid. So to me that would make sense. But it has its problems. I won't lie to you.

It does have its problems, especially if you've got a very dominant three or four teams that pack out the points every single race. And that's always been maybe an issue with Formula One. But it's got to stop somewhere and you've got to roar people somehow. So I probably wouldn't give it a major overhaul in a personal thought. So at least in terms of like the other end of the grid. So let's say there's a battle for 15th going on between Magnuson and Bottas.

Obviously at the moment it's for no points whatsoever. You're content with that remaining the case. Yeah, I know that some people like the concept of, you know, 20 points for first, one point for 19th or last, how are you working out. And it means that everyone would get a reward. Sounds silly. I'd almost like to see this employed

in a different sprint race championship as a bit of a trial if we were to have a separate platform for that to go ahead. Obviously, we've discussed they ain't going anywhere. So if it becomes a separate phenomenon, a separate competition, maybe roll out a different points then

and see if it works. But I wouldn't want to just cut and dry, employ that into Formula One right now. and I do think for the most part what we have worked. There's a lot of things that are breaking in Formula One. I don't think the point system is a glaring problem. What do you think, Harry, do you keep the point system the same?

Or do you think it's time for a change? I would keep it almost exactly the same. But I'd been off the fastest that point because that's the most pointless irrelevant point we've ever had. Say point more. Point. And I'd also... Thank you.

And I would also reduce... first from 25 to 20 because I've always thought it's too many points for a win because you get these situations where I remember at the time, I might be making this up because it's 15 years ago, but the thinking of the rationale was because there are more points for first, it was a incentive for drivers not to just settle for second. It was. Yeah. But I, but I, when is a Formula One driver ever gone, do you know what, I'll just have second? I don't want first. because because there's only two points in this, as it used to be like 10 points down to 8 for first and second.

No F1 driver is programmed like that. And it's just that we've discussed this when we had the discussion about increased prize money for or prize money for sprint races. They don't need that. Yeah. They need that incentive. So I've always thought that was a stupid way to rationalise it. And the 25 down to 80, the rest of the gaps all make sense to me,

but 25 down to 18 was always too much. And you get these situations where, yeah, you might have a dominant driver like Max Verstappen or Lewis Hamilton, etc. And it's a runaway because I'm not saying it would have made a difference to this year's championship if it was 20 points rather than 25. But when there are situations that maybe a driver gets a run

in terms of like a run of results versus their competitor, it makes it more difficult for that person, the second place driver to catch up. So even though they might, you know, they might then have a run a race of themselves, the rival, is sometimes not enough to catch up that gap. So I've always thought that.

So I would, yeah, I'd reduce down to 20 and, yeah, I'd keep it for the top 10 because if you're not in the top 10, get better scrub. What would great point?

A question on that, because I think that, yeah, you've ended there perfectly, poetically. What would you do for, because obviously you say you reduced to 20, which I think actually is a fair suggestion, but obviously that then skews how the points

move further down, right? You now have a gap. between second and third, 18 to 15, how would you alter that? Would it be 18 to 16? Yeah, I mean, I mean, potentially, yeah, I just think those gaps are relatively fair for what. I just think it's too skewed at the top.

So, yeah, potentially go down to 18 to 16 or maybe it's 21 down to 18, down to 15. I don't know, but I would just make that gap of the top less than seven points. And yeah, the gaps down below that. Maybe they need to be changed slightly, but not too much. You make a really fair point that if, for Stappen, I only won 20 points every single race.

He won, he only be 80, 85, I've become Irish. There's only be 85 points less off than what he is now, which means he still completely have dominated the championship anyway. He still nicked it. Yeah, he still just, just nicked it.

Grazed stick at the last moment. By a wafer. Yeah, no, that's my fault. I'm not saying it stops, it stops that, but I think it's more about when you have, you have tighter battles that some, sometimes, um, I'm thinking like,

I don't know, 2017, 2018, Hamilton versus Vessel. I think Hamilton still wins the championship, but it keeps it alive for a bit longer. There isn't a point there. So, I don't know. My socks, I think so'd out. Oh, that night, mate.

Yeah, sort that out, mate. I actually, yeah, I think more of the second idea than the first idea in that I've removed, taking the winner down to like 22, 21 points rather than 20 and then messing with the rest of it, I think would probably make more sense. But fundamentally, I'm the same in that I don't think it needs an overhaul.

I agree with the fastest lap point, by the way. Get it in the bin. Don't like it. Who cares? Who cares about it? Don't care. I like it. I'll have for a mayor do it in 16th.

Just, you got your poke. Got you. That point they took away from LP, not honestly. I actually, if they're going to do the fastest lap point, let anyone get it. Yeah, that's valid. I'd actually, I'd be more in favour if it was a top 20. Because at least we might see a bit of a crazy shootout between the back four or five drivers all coming into,

that might be fun for them. So I'll be almost more up for that. Fair enough. I'm putting it in the bin. I, yeah, I think it's an easy to understand system, first and foremost. You know, we're not giving out, you know, the winner's not ending with 5,000 points as the case in NASCAR. Why?

It doesn't need to be. keep a more simple piece. So many points. So many points. So yeah, I think it's an easy to understand system. And I am of the view as well that F1 points should be earned. And I know there are a lot of suggestions that points should be given out down to 15th place or all drivers should get points. As you mentioned, Sam, with 20 down to one.

I don't subscribe to it because I do think it should be an occasion when Logan Sargent getting his first point at the US Grand Prix. Appreciate it. He got it in. slightly odd circumstances and that he didn't get it when he crossed the line. But equally, it was still, it was a moment for him. And he earned that throughout the whole course of this year. He worked towards getting that point. It shouldn't have, you know, it wouldn't have meant anything at all.

If he got a point for 12th place at the Bahrain Grand Prix, I don't think, or, you know, getting a couple of points for finishing 15 for some random event in the summer. Like, I just don't, I don't enjoy that at all. So I think overall the system works quite well. It rewards 50% of the field. I'm with you, Sam, that if the field was to grow a little bit, I would increase it to the top 12, I think.

But at least at the moment, whilst F1 drag their feet about Andretti, I think we keep it where it is in terms of the top 10. And yeah, I think, you know, do drivers leave a little bit off if they're battling over P14 or P15? no, I think they still go for it. Is a battle that much more enjoyable if it's for 10th versus 13th?

Not exactly. The only thing that it might incentivise is TV directors to actually look at some of the battles a bit further back. But hey, they can do that anyway just by being better. So, yeah, I'm happy with it. We still also get the countback rule, right?

We had that conversation early on in the season. If teams haven't scored, or they scored the same amount of points, you know, I've finished 13th, three times, you've only finished 13th once. It does make a difference, and I think that's fine. Getting into Caterham versus Marisha territory here. Oh, that was a fight for the ages. Go back and watch it, folks.

I'm telling you now. The best kind of fight. Exactly. The one that didn't happen. Okay, we'll take our last break. On the other side, we've got F1 back and forth. Here we go, F1, back and forth. F1

Back and forth It's F1 Back and forth It goes backwards Then goes forth It's F1 Back and forth F1

Oh, I'm hosting Hello You'll go Off you go This is fun It's a Ben v Harry special And I definitely didn't put this together Two minutes before the show started

So I thought in the spirit of Las Vegas being essentially it's a new track. Oh, no. I have asked tracks that have held less than 10 Grand Prix since 1980. There are 23 answers. Also, there's one on here that is very hard to pronounce. So again, get a good fiesta with that one.

Good luck, everyone. Yeah, sorry, three answers. Ben, is you're back in the game, tagged you back in for a little while? He's been on the old hiatus with Mika Hackingen. You go first, sir. Fewer than 10 Grand Prix 10 or fewer

since 1980 was it? Yes, now I'm going to give a caveat some of these Grand Prix had a race in the 70s but I'm not including those it's have had between 1 and 10 Grand Prix since 1980 through to the current season we are in.

Got it. The Sotchi Autodrome, Russia. Correct. Sochi Autodrome in Russia that had eight Grand Prix in 2014 and ending in 2021 due to the war with Ukraine. 8 too many.

Valencia. Valencia is correct. That's like 5-08-0-12. 012. 012. That's how we say years now, folks. Miami. Oh, Miami.

Pudding in the city with a healer's aren't. Yeah, that's got two at the moment. 22 and 23. Correct. Harry, back to you. Yeongam. Yeongam. I want to say that.

As many as four Grand Prix, 2010 to 2013. Oh no, not enough. We're all in using to say that one. Qatar. Qatar is correct. Of course, it has two. I just got to find it on my list because I've written it as LaSalle.

That was in 21 and 23, of course, had the break between the two. Harry, back to you. Uh, oh. Well, we mentioned it already. Caesar's Palace. I was, I kind of grimaced when it came up, because I thought, oh, that's an answer that's come and going. Yeah, 81, 82, twice it was race back.

Two very unfortunate occasions. Ben, back to you. Harry's favourite, Jeddah. Oh, yes. It's had three races 21, 22 and 23. Well done. Harry, back to you. Doing well, going strong.

Uh... Oh. Estereil? No. Oh, no. But we'll carry on because it's good fun, but no. It's not there, unfortunately. Too many.

No, unfortunately not on the list after 80. Ben? Big Bud. Big Bud. It is indeed there. Ranked it three times 2011 through to 2013. Sorry, the Sebastian Vettel Auto Dron. Also well known as his back garden.

As it should be known. I'm struggling there I mean I'm already Honestly there's some recent ones that still haven't come off the list When I say recent Within the last decade Where have we been In the last decade

That's for you to Oxa I actually can't think of any circuits now Areth Hereth is on there Yeah that hag seven events all the way through to 1986. I'm glad you said that because it was one of my Mabies.

Firmly on there. Firmly on the list. Micello. Micello again. I only took one appearance since 80 and that was in 2020. Of course, in our COVID weird calendar that we had to put together. I try to think there's no more from that COVID year, I don't think, is it? Well, I got to give anything away. But you do forget that that year exists.

That's probably about my failure here. Where else will we've been. Just for clarity, weird named GPs, they're not counting as individual ones. Yeah, like 70th anniversary. 70th anniversary. The list could be as long as my arm. How was it, I-4-45?

I-4-65, yeah. I'm blue da-de-da-a-da-a. Oh, that was a weird time. Great song. in Struggle Town. Oh, Indianapolis. No. Indianapolis.

That must be close because I had that as a maybe as well. It's 11. Yeah. I got the list up. Let me check. 11. Let me just check. Let me just check. So Estuary was 30.

It only ran from 2000 to 2008. Hold on. Oh, not even that. Seven. Oh, the list just deceived me. You're right. Right, it is Indianapolis. I've got a second.

It's because the list I've used has counting all the ones before 1980. But you are right. It's on there. Thanks. Well done, mate. I'm still out. Istanbul. Istanbul is correct.

Well done. Hag nine. Blimey. That's what I might have to fold here. I mean, I'm already out, but. fold anyway. Ben, do you have any more? I can't remember if this was the circuit name or not. Ada, the one, the Pacific Grand Prix Yeah, correct. Ada was on there. In Japan, of course, it ran two series.

Oh, the Buenos Aires, the Argentinian Grand Prix. Buenos Aires? Yeah, that's, that's not Japan. Buenos Aires. No, oh, I, sorry, I thought we're talking about Ada. Oh, sorry. I think I realized what is it with you in Argentina? Dina. I'm very close to many Argentinians, so, you know, I take it very, I'm having to double-check the list because it isn't on my list.

Yeah, I think it might be one of those that could be right, but there were races there pre-1980. Yeah. So I'm going to say no. But even though it might be right. I've said no, it's my game. Fair enough. Actually, I'm not being silly.

It is right. You're good. I'm fully out now. A few other guesses. I'm assuming there's going to be a few US on here. So Phoenix. Phoenix is on there. Got a phone up on list yet.

Rank 3, 1890, 1991. Dallas. Dallas is on there just the 84 after 80s. Yeah. Detroit. Detroit is correct. Well done. Oh, actually, if we're talking just 80s, then maybe,

or Long Beach. Long Beach is, yeah, Long Beach is on there. I've got to find it on my list. Oh, yeah, it rang four. Brawrees. Zanthort. Zanvort is on there, I think,

just I've got to find it on my list. It's a long list at this point, all right, folks. So, you know. There were 23 answers, but there might be more. The list wasn't clear, all right? It's not clear. Yeah, Zambots on there. Well done.

But there's a few others. Mexico is probably close just for it's just over oh 15 16 17 17 18 19 19 19 21 no no I think that's right yeah we did race there in the 90s as well yeah that would be wrong

are you counting it because it's a slightly different circuit yeah sure yeah it's yeah a little bit different but there's some um Adelaide's that's pretty close Agileg is correct, yeah. There's some big ones, though, that kind of, I think, are quite, when you've got

the list in front of you, are quite obvious, but... Was that, when did Adelaide start on the calendar? Is that 86 or something? Yeah, something like that. And 95 was the last one, so... Yeah. Vietnam with zero. You know what? I'll allow it.

Don't allow it, because we've played that on the F1 game. That's terrible. It's fair. It should be banned as a track. Go ahead. That is still baffling to me that that just swept that under the rug. Never happened. Yeah, who cares? All that investment in time.

I don't know how many Kyle Army did before. Kyle Army is correct. No, it's great. Yep. Should I count how many I've got? Well, on my list left, I've got one, two, three, four, five, the one I can't pronounce. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten left. Good Lord.

That's a lot. Donington. Donington is correct. 1903. Please sausages. Brands hatch. Brands hatch is correct. Zolder.

Solder is correct. Don't will there. There's a nice little run through. There's still one that's on the calendar now that you haven't said. Ah, Fuji. Fuji is correct. Yeah. That's not on the calendar now.

Sorry. I love the timing about that's correct. Sorry. They're still on the calendar now. There's still on the current calendar that has not hit the Magic 10 or 11, I guess, to make it incorrect. Baku. Baku is the one. Well done.

Got seven under its belt. So you've got one that took place in the last five years and it was, and it was raised it more than once. You've got one, two, three from the, four from the 80s left and that's it.

I think you could try and get the one from the last five years. We raised there. I'll give you another clue. We race there twice. oh my god this is the one that Parry's probably said and I've just completely forgotten that it's the wrong name because I've written it down differently which means that he was never wrong

for goodness sake no it's not no it's not I'm fine I said Estabille was what got me out so it can't be out yeah it's not that don't worry the other Portuguese Grand Prix Ah Portemau Portemau Portemau

Portemau Um Shall I join a concede I'll tell you the last few Oh maybe there's Then there's another American one you haven't got. Oh, okay.

Do they race at Watkins Glen? Watkins Glenn in 1980. Yeah, that's it must have been really close. Yeah. So you've now got one, two, three left again. Dijon? Dijon is one of them.

Well done, 82, 81, 82 and 84. The classic mustard Grand Prix. The classic mustard Grand Prix. Very spicy. Two left now. Paul Richard? No, we've got Paul Ricard. But that might be because I've counted it wrong.

That must be close. Let me find it on my list. 1819. I doubt how many times they went there in the early 90s. 82, 83, 85, all way through to 1990. 18, 19, 21, 22. So just over 10. Yeah.

Do you know the countries? Yeah, one of them is French and one of them is Brazilian. Oh, Rio. Yes. Nelson P.K. Circuit. Yeah. Rio de Janeiro as it is apparently affectionately known now. Yeah, 81 through to 89. And the last one is a French track.

We'll race there once in 1981. Rem? No, not Ren. Le Mourne. No, not Le Mons. We've never been there. Bang E. Cool. Here we have.

Shut up, Ben. I met We as a trio I've never been there, obviously Oh well, then you're right, yeah Yes It's a long name It's a long name It's got three words to it

John Piedgeraldi That's it No I don't know I don't know The only one I can think of is the Circuit de Chirade But I don't think they're raised there in the 80s

It was only the 70s Do you concede? Yeah, go on them Okay, this is going to be funny, folks. Here we go. It is the Permanente

del Giorama. Do you want to listen really funny? What? It's Spain. Whoopsie. And this is why folks I don't

normally run the games. I did think it didn't sound very French when you read that how I thought it's just sound saying it. That's the one that Jill Villeneuve won. where he had like a cue behind him.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there you go. Oh, for the love of God. Who are going on? And this. Anyway, that was I've fought back and forth. There's a good one, I think. That's a roaring success.

As always. I love how the game was decided after like three minutes, and then the segment lasted 30. So my fault, you two feel the need to get every answer. Oh, God. Blime me. I'm going to delete that from existence now.

Goodbye, game. Good. Let's put it out for thousands of people listen to them instead. I hope you enjoy it, folks. Anything you'd like to say in getting us out of here, Sam? Free LeClemerch is now available on our store. If you're a patron

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I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Jeff Vegas. Keep breaking late. Let's a wave at the camera like they used to do a game show so they used to pan out for ages for the coverage role. I hope Casey puts on this. Goodbye.

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