The Late Braking F1 Podcast - How promising is McLaren's 2024 confidence?

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

Sam, Ben and Harry discuss the McLaren marketing campaign and surprise launch that have got everyone talking this week - is their confidence an encouraging sign? They also cover Toto Wolff's contract extension, Pat Fry's comments on his experience at Williams vs Alpine, and Horner's admission that the 2025 Red Bull seat is all to play for. They finish with a game of F1: Back and Forth... 2024 Live Show Interest Survey: Please CLICK HERE to complete our super quick survey & help us get an idea of where you guys might like to see us this year! Thanks for your help! FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League BUY our Merch EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. All right. Oh, that's very subdued. Yeah, I'm all right. Thanks, Ben.

How are you? Bit tired, bit cold. It's really, bloody cold here. Minas, 3. all day yesterday. All the Americans are going to come after us for that. No, because we're doing it right. What, cold?

We're doing cold right. Oh, no, I don't know about that. But the measurement system... Ben will have seen this, I guess. But do you see the NFL going the other day that was in like minus 17 Celsius? So it was nought degrees Fahrenheit and everything was freezing.

Like, people had beers in the stands at the opening it and just it froze. That's cool. Let's do an F1 race in those side of seasons. No. Finland. That's too. Too cold. F1 race. We haven't got to go.

I just watch. Okay. That was the classic Celsius versus Fahrenheit debate because the first I heard of how cold it was going to be was like a week or 10 days out from the game. And I saw someone post that, oh, it's probably going to be around zero degrees. And I'm like, well, that's pretty cold. And then realized that person's American. Oh, no. Oh, damn. It's going to be cold. The really confusing thing is, though, they quickly overtake us in the minuses. so our minus 17 eventually

like they'll be like minus 56 and we'll still be on like minus 25 it's very confusing I did move on good let's talk to Formula 1 sales and some NFL indeed we'll be playing everyone back and forth later on so we're right at home with what we know

we've got other comments from Pat Frye coming up Toto Wolfe has extended his contract that will be coming up a little bit later on the show before we get started on first topic just a quick mention. I don't know if you heard. We did a live show in 2023 when we were in Austin.

I can't remember if we mentioned it. We might have mentioned it. I've heard it on the breeze outside. Live show. That's all I've heard of it. Anyway, that wasn't just a random, you know, point to bring that up for no reason, by the way.

We've got a form that's going to be in the description of this episode that's just going to help us out because we'd like to do some more in 2024. We'd like to know your thoughts on where we should go, basically. And we're not just talking. America?

No? No. We're also talking to the UK. Big UK. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're on a live show in the UK and you're interested, there's a few locations on there and you think, I don't mind seeing these absolute burks in real life,

then let us know you can come on down. Remind me on the form. Are there set options or can people write something they'd like? You can also write in if you have another thing that's not on there. Nice. Yeah. So there are some set options that we've thought of them are logical and makes sense. to us, but of course if we have a huge following in, I don't know, Dundee,

and you think, Dundee, you want to come up to Dundee. Where? Okay. Okay, sure. I'll come on up. I love Scotland. We'll send Sam. I love Scotland.

I don't think you'll come back alive, but sure. True, they'll immortalise me. Immortalise. I don't think that's the word you meant. I will live forever in Scotland. Anyway. Let's get on with our actual first topic, which is this. Usually the 2024, or indeed any year's worth of launches, go very smoothly.

The team goes, this is when we're going to launch our car and our livery. They then launched the car and the livery on that date. McLaren has decided to rip up the handbook and go, no, we're just going to launch our car whenever we feel like it, or at least our livery. Their actual car launches at a later date. decided to just launch their livery without anyone really knowing. We'll discuss what our thoughts are on the livery at a later date because we of course like to do Pimp my F1 towards the beginning of the season. But at least related to this car launch, Zach Brown and indeed

Andrea Estella had some comments. Zach Brown said, I'm feeling confident. I think all the men and women at McLaren have done a fantastic job in the off season. Of course, there will be a continued development with the car. So we're not done. We're just done with our launch spec car. but expect continued improvement over the course of the year. Red Bull certainly seemed like they didn't develop last year to the level they could have done if they wanted to. So that could be an unpleasant surprise for all of us. And then Andrea Stella jumped on those comments and said,

I have to say we aren't seeing any diminishing returns at the moment. So all in all, looking like there's a lot of confidence and optimism in the McLaren camp, Sam. What did you make of these comments? The social campaign kind of felt like the poor social media around me and went through, deleted all of the posts in preparation for the actual date. And then, like, a meeting happened by that person's desk. And Zach Brown put his hand on the desk without realizing a link on the publish button.

And then they were like, we've just got to go with this now. It's live. Run with it. It's happened. This happened. We've dropped the ball and the car is there. I am a big fan of letting your actions do the talking for you in the sporting world. And this is a lot of chat.

Looking at you, Alpine. Looking at you, Alpine. You're smug faces and your pink and blue car. You, wait, and see. That's why they ain't talking. But this is a lot of talk. It's a lot of chat. It's a lot of like smack talk from McLaren.

Oh, we ain't seen no diminishing returns around here. Thank you very much. So it does feel like they're trying to really big themselves up. And I know that they're really going on this morale. They're going on a high. They finish the season on a high, which is great. Piaastri and Norris are very much part of the team at the moment. It's a lot of cohesion.

It makes a lot of sense. There's a lot of morale boosting. The issue with this is if they rock up to Bahrain and Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, Aston, Alpine, who knows, are quicker than them. If they're 17th for the DNF again in Bahrain, it's going to tumble down harder than a thing that tumbles down. Honestly, Mr. Tumble can't tumble that hard because McLaren will bomb if it is bad.

It will not go well for them. So, Mr. Tumble reference. Get to shout out. Good Lord. My point here is, as much I respect the morale boosting, trying to encourage your team and your fans, you're doing a lot of talking before anything. has ever happened and there's no chance that they can one compare data to another team to have

any understanding of that analytical comparison and two everyone is under strict NDA restrictions they will not give away an actual scent of how things are going until we hear Q1 at Bahrain no chance they're giving this away so it's purely motivational there's no data understanding of what's going on here I'm a bit skeptical it's I wanted to get excited but I am just a bit skeptical. Do you think this is Zach Brown marketing extraordinaire going to work more than more than anything else? Is that for me? Sam's got a mouthful. Sorry, everyone. C-Cath. It's C-Caff. Is D-Caf? Yeah. I am Tiontze, always. Yeah, no, I think he is trying to whack on more stickers on the car. It looks a little bit. There's no more room. Oh, fine room. That man will find him every more

room. Push those aside. Let's start on the wheels. Oh, no, wait, no, we've already done. that. No, can't go to the wheels for more sponsorship. They'll do the underside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When the car flips over, you're going to make millions. It's hoping never happens. Yeah, I think, I think it is pure. He is a marketing genius. He is so good at marketing that team.

And he has restored its global worth, I think, in terms of how people view the brand, both within Formula One, in IndyCar, they've had good success in Formula E. Extremely now is a thing for them as well. They really branch out to become a full global brand and not just an F1 brand, which they had been so famously for so long. And this is a continuation of that. But I am just skeptical. He's going to a little bit hard.

You know what you drink too much of pre-drinks? And then by the time you actually get to the house party, you're like, oh, but Sam Cross being sick outside of the... Oh, come on, worry. Come on now. That's my point. You know when you're like, yes, get on with the mates. Come on, churn it through.

And then you literally get to the club and you're like, I'm going to be sick before I'm getting inside. That is what McLaren are at risk of doing. Hello, Sam, cross, by the way, if you're, if you were listening. I'm brushing your teeth. Good Lord. That's so, so neat. Harry, what did you think of this surprise launch and the words that accompanied it?

I kind of hate the surprise launch. Surprise? I hate it. Don't like that. Just, you know, do a launch when you're saying and do a launch. Well, they hadn't said, I guess. Have they said? No, they never said.

They just dropped it. Oops. Oops, we dropped it. Oops, you hit them like. Yeah, it's. Do you know what? It's bold. It's bold,

codden. CFF works out when that pays off them. Because I just mentioned them, reference them. Look at Alpine last year. I mean, they didn't go this far, but as we referenced for the entirety of 2020, they were smug about something at the start of the year and it didn't deliver.

They're a 2024 car. A year of smugness. The whole year is a psych. Sike! We dig it on purpose. Yeah. And I can't, look, I, Kind of admire the approach here, but you're right.

It's quite a bold way to start the year because if you look at how McLaren has started several of the past few years, you've already mentioned last year, 17 to the DNAF. Love it. But it's not the only time. It's happened a few times as of late, maybe not in like 2022. Well, no, 2020, maybe 21 was okay. But they're not famous for starting seasons by McLaren.

So it feels like they're gone, well, this year we're going to start it. we're going to start it really well and we're going to tell everyone about it. But I'd have got one under my belt first. I'd have done this year and went, okay, well, that went well. Next year we'll be confident. Yeah.

I wouldn't, I just, oh, oh, oh. It's a bit like, you know, the meme where the little girl at Christmas opens her present and it's an avocado. She goes, oh, on the avocado, thanks. And that's what McLaren fans are going to be like after Bahrain if it doesn't go well.

They're all excited for Christmas. Oh, Zach Brown's really. Your present's going to be amazing. for Christmas. You can have the best thing ever. 17th thing of D&F comes around. Another car ago, thanks. It's literally going to be there.

Yeah. And they actively call out the, you know, the crisis they had in 2020. At the start, like, these headlines. They are heaping the pressure on themselves for no reason. Yeah. I just, just carry on with how you were at the end of last year, guys. Yeah.

I think, I think that'd be okay. That's all. McLaren fans don't want your confidence. They want your results. Although I have to admit, the video they released was really good. Very well, very well done. I will concede that.

A relevant to one-track performance for this year, but it was a great video. Unless if it does pay off, they're going to look like geniuses, but it's risky, is what I say. I love it. Oh, here we go.

It's big bowl bang. I love it. Why not? I'm a fan of this very self-confident approach by a team because there's not enough of it in F1. There's too much. Yeah, they're better than us, though. Oh, yeah, they're quicker than us.

This is McLaren being betting on themselves. You're not wrong. If it goes horribly wrong, this will blow up in their face. But this is sport, this is entertainment. I'm here for it. And yeah, if it's a bit of an all-in approach, if it goes well, they'll look great. If it doesn't go well, it'll look horrible. And I'm okay with either outcome as a pure fan, not as a supporter of McLaren. If you're a supporter of McLaren, maybe you'd want them to shut up a little bit more at this point in the season. But as a pure fan, I'm okay with this. I'm okay with the fact that, you know,

2023 was a good step forward for the team, particularly, of course, the second half of the year. This, I don't know, this string of quotes, it feels like the team are not resting on their laurels. This feels like the team are 100% seeing 2023 as a success, but as a stepping stone.

It's a step on the path to what they ultimately want to achieve. if they had turned around at the end of 2023 and really celebrated their success, it would make me a bit worried as if like that's the end goal. I think this is, it's a bullish approach, but it's one I'm okay with. That video, the hype video, I don't know even know what you'd call it, but you're right, 10 slaps out of 10 is what I give that. Love that. But yeah, I love that as well.

The fact they called out their early 2023 problems, Again, that will be replayed if they are 17th and DNF in Bahrain. I will replay it. I will stand outside of the McLaren hub and be like video or mega screen. You suck! Sounds off to woking to troll. It's not that far away. Drive there.

Take it back out. Pop on down, go. Address as a troll. It feels to me that, and maybe I'm wrong on this, It feels to me that you'd only put out that sort of material if you were really confident that you're at least going to be as good as last season, if not better. I don't know.

Surely someone's gone, looked at the video and gone down to the people working on the car and been like, look, we're going to put this out. You all right with this? Are you sure? Are you sure? And I feel like someone at that point would have gone, yeah, we're sure. We got a good car. I would hope that's the conversation that's happened here.

because, yeah, I don't think you put out this sort of material unless you are confident in what you're doing. And I didn't mind the fact that they just randomly launched their livery as well. As mentioned, we'll discuss the livery in a bit more depth in a future episode. But it had an air of, I know it's only a livery launch, but it just had an air of like, look, here's our livery. Let's go, right? Here we go.

It's a bit sodden C, wasn't it? Yeah, it is. I don't mind that. Yeah. Here it is. It's 24, it's ours, let's go. You know, the World Cup song, Vindaloo, right?

Of course. Kick it. That is, that launch is that song. Brown said kick it. Yeah, he did. He went, bucket of Vindaloo. And that's what he's delivered on. Spicy.

And I respect it, but I'm going to watch it crash and burn. Good. Not the car, hopefully. I hope everyone's okay. Also, sorry, Ben. I'm just buzzing for Pimp my F1. I'm so excited for it. Now we've seen one of the deliveries.

Best episode of the year. Get ready, everyone. I think we think it's the best episode of the year. Everyone else does not care. Everyone else has reviewed deliveries one by one and the hype is gone. But I love it. Yep. We're unqualified to talk about most things when related to F1,

but even less so when it comes to like design, the three of us collectively have like one ounce of talent in that department. Yeah, go back and check the very, very early design stuff that we used to do on YouTube is. It's not good. Change the current designs. It ain't us. I'll say, Ben's Photoshop skills are on display right now on our Instagram.

At late breaking F1 if I'm going to check it out. Right now. Yeah, right now. He's put two hats on, too crafty-looking people. I'm going to have a look. I've all of what I missed. Anyway, Ben, you crack on while Harry checks out the Photoshop. Covered on Instagram.

Well, I'll throw it straight back to you, Sam. Andrea Stella, obviously he's typically more reserved than, say, Zach Brown. We've already discussed a few times over this winter period where he has been cautious, about 2024. Here he's saying that at the moment they're not seeing any diminishing returns. He has also given the caveat of, we don't really know

until the cars are on track. But that, again, that feels like an encouraging statement if you're McLaren. Well, yeah, of course, but it feels like an obvious one as well. I just feel like at this stage, most team principles

aren't going to come out and slates it off. That feels like an absolute terrible move to come out to be immediately negative. The phrase, we're not seeing diminishing returns, is so vague and so up for debate.

Diminishing returns is obviously where you don't get any more for what you're putting in, right? That could be bringing back 0.1% every single time they're putting one metric in. It could be tiny returns that just simply haven't diminished yet. It could be they're gaining half a second around every track right now

and they have no comparison to anything. They don't know that the diminishing returns that they're currently not seeing on their car are half the size of what Mercedes might be seeing or what steak F1. Salba, are seeing, you know, whatever it is, it's incomparable. It's non-useful at the moment. It's data for data's sake.

And you'd be like putting our podcast stats on the internet and going, we've got millions of downloads last year. We're amazing. We're not seeing diminishing returns yet. And yet, I don't know, the purple lads that do very, very well, we haven't looked at their data. We don't know it yet. Well, you know, Matt and Tommy, the fantastic boys that they are.

Yeah, we all go by colour. And, um, with the green boys. With the green boys. I need a dinosaur. Um, they might turn around and go, well, at the start of the season and go, yeah, well, we're 24 million downloads and we haven't seen diminishing returns yet. My point is, you ain't got a clue what you're comparing yourself to. You don't know if what you're seeing is any good. I just think this is such a team principle, being motivational, but at the same time being vague enough, you're playing it safe.

I think it's a clever statement. I think it makes sense for the time period we're in. but it feels a little bit like his hand has been forced to say something by the ever charismatic Zach Brown. I thought this was an interesting one. The way I read it was he could have come out and said something along the lines of, we made a massive jump with the car middle of last season heading into the Austrian Grand Prix Philando Norris and then obviously Piastri got it at the race after that massive upgrade.

And that was the huge turning point in their season. I feel like he could have come out and said something along the lines of, you know, we're unlikely to see that massive gain across from one race to the next. That was our big jump. And now we're looking at incremental gains to get closer and closer to first place. He would have worded it, I'm sure, much better than that. But he could have said something along those lines. I'm encouraged by the fact that he said there's no diminishing returns.

To me, that reads a case of actually, we could still make big jumps with the design. It's almost like it hasn't reached the end of its cycle. there's still room for it to grow. I don't know. And as I say, Stella is usually more reserved than Zach Brown. What did you make of that specific comment, Harry? Yeah, I think it's just clever speak, clever language.

And sorry, is it come from Stella or? Yeah, from Stella. Yeah, it's not boxing yourself into a corner, isn't it? But, you know, still being positive, I think it's an interesting. interesting choice of words. As an engineer, he knows that he'll obviously know what the data looks like. But as you say, there's just nothing to compare it to. So I think keeping it, he's probably, Zach Brown's gone, I want to do this.

I want to do this. He is analytics man, sidekick, marketing man. He's marketing man. They are the famous duo. Oh my God, it's those two. I can't believe two episodes and where this has come up. Yeah, Zach Brown's gone, I want to do this. I want to do this campaign to start our year.

Andrea Stella's probably gone as analytics man. He's going, oh. I've got a lot of the situation. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. He's like, we're doing it, Andrea. And he's like, okay, fine. Then he's like, how do I, how do I make this positive?

How do I make this positive, but still slightly on the fence. Like me. It's quite cryptic. I think Ben can be entirely right. I think I could be entirely right. I think he could be lying. You know, he could just, he could see complete diminishing returns and go,

God, sound positive, what sounds good that is vague? Also, it's a quote that probably won't get picked up. Like, we're probably not going to remember that this year. So we'll remember the campaign, but we don't remember him saying diminishing returns. I guess they could be comparing it to the Red Bull car in Abidabie, right? That might be what they're comparing it to is then biggest competitor and the last thing that they can trace see as a,

a viable competitor that has finished a race, possibly. But, you know, if you're comparing it to something that happened three months ago, then Red Bull will have been down the road by another second by that point. It's just my point here is, I feel like me and being able to switch places there. I feel like data for data's sake is irrelevant. Sure. All right. Well, that weird ending.

That will be the end of our first topic. On the other side, Toto Wolf and his new contract. Oh, happy. Okay, Toto Wolf has extended his contract at Mercedes, meaning he'll be in his executive position until at least the end of 2026. Outside of the news itself, I'd say it's significant for two reasons. Firstly, that covers the first year of the new regulations. And secondly, both Lewis Hamilton and George Russell's current contract is set to end at the end of 2025. So we know that Toto Wolf, at a minimum, will go one year beyond that current date.

Do you think this is, I mean, do you think it's positive news for Mercedes-Sam? Well, before we get into that, I just want to slip in the fact that we've got Patreon, and we're going to be discussing the five most overrated drivers that we believe are existing in Formula One, and it's a bit... Toto Wolf. Toto Wolf is number one for all of our lists. Yeah. It wasn't very good, actually, was he? So...

That wasn't the most natural segue, but I appreciate it. I don't care about actual segues. I'm not Ben Hocking. I ain't got that Vaseline to slip in the easiest way. Jesus. Okay. I just want to get in early in the show, so people hear it. Please subscribe.

We appreciate it. Anyway, that's the original point. See, super smooth. Oh, my God. Literally forced out with the crowbar and they stuck it back together with that tape. Lord. I think this is positive. Toto Wolf and Christian Horn are pretty much kind of, you know, two titans going head to head and having out for it feels like a very long time.

I mean, the longest running chiefs thing. To anyone else. Yeah. A long, much longer portion. and absolutely only else. How long has Soto been in the job now? 14 years? 20, no, 10.

10 years? Christian Horner's been around for decades. 2006? 2005, I think. Red Bull, yeah. He's been... Come up since 20 years. Christian Horner is Red Bull.

He bleeds red bull. He's just a cat. Yeah. I believe that at this point. Jerry... Cracks him open every morning. What is going on? Oh, God.

Okay. Anyway, this is good for Mercedes, I think. It provides consistency. I think we've seen with a lot of teams that instability can regularly cause shakeups all the way down the team. And Mercedes are at quite a difficult point right now. So they need a level head to steer the ship, to guide them through the difficult moments.

And he knows what success looks like. He knows how to build that platform. We've seen it do it once. So I can't see why he couldn't do it again. The absolute most savage thing that I thought about this entire press conference, this entire announcement, was Toto's question.

himself that said, I want to win an eighth world title for Lewis. We're going to build a good car and I'm going to win it with Lewis. I'm going to do it for Lewis. I just imagine George Russell off stage like, like what's he got himself into? It's like what your two best friends are walking X-Ew and then they say something and you laugh and then they go,

you weren't there for that joke. And you're like, oh, they like each other more. Hang on. They like each other more than they're like me. And that's what I felt like George Russell just went through. It's rejection from his best pals.

No, I think it's good. I think the Meseg can deliver consistency. Who knows? I don't think there's anyone available right now that we've seen previously that could shake things up

in a very positive way for Mosegis. So, yeah, I think three years is fair. Not ridiculous length of time unlike Espan Ocon who will be around longer than Mosegis itself, I'm sure. Yeah.

And end of this season, mate. Unbelievably. Is the year, 3,042? God, it's finally going to come to an end. Wow. Can't wait for just sign for 20 more.

He deserves it. It's war mode. The war mode is my favorite thing of this year already. What are your thoughts, Harry, on the news? And yeah, do you think this is revenge, Toto Wolf coming back for that eighth title? Yeah, I think he's at least he's honest, I think, because that's exactly what he wants to do. Yeah. Is win that eighth title with Hamilton.

Sorry, George. I'm sure he would take a first title, which. George, I think it's just another title because after the end of 2021, obviously the last two years have been pretty garbage for them. And I can't see him one leaving without bagging another one. If he gets another one, then maybe he will, I know he's signed to the end of 26, but maybe he'll reevaluate then. But yeah, I didn't, I wasn't really in any doubt that he would,

they'd get rid of him, would, he would go anywhere. They've had as many race wings as they have apology letters since 2021. one. Oh God. Do not do that again, Mercedes. If you're bad again, do not do it. So it cracks me up. Yeah.

I've seen that Anthony Davidson, friend of the podcast has said the car's feeling like a car. That's good. That is obviously, what a level of feedback. What did it feel like beforehand? A bloody... Toto's gone,

Anthony. Antony, is it a car? Yes, Toto. Oh, no, that's interesting. No, it's English. Yes, Toto. Yeah. You've spoken to Anthony.

Sorry. We've met it. Last year you told me it felt like a seagull. Does it feel like a car now? That's what I imagine. He's a, yes, do-do. Yes, Papa-Dot-Doh, that's Papa-Dot-Doh. Anyway, and you've spoken to Anthony.

It's incredibly like a tornado. Yeah, this is sensible move for all parties involved. Why would you get rid of the person who's seen you deliver eight World Championships, eight Constructed World Championships? And a second place. Oh, and eight driver's titles. Sorry, Nico. No.

seven. Seven of one and then eight of the constructors. Oh gosh. Right. Six or one half does any other? Yeah. Good. This show is going well to go. Yeah.

Obviously there's a positive news because I don't, yeah, man's good at his job, and he? Like, he is pretty good at his job. Man's hot. And if you look again, going back to the other 80% of the grid, if you ignore Christian Horner at Red Bull, there isn't a lot of longevity going around when it comes to team principles recently. So having that stability is certainly a positive for the Mercedes team.

And I do think that at this point, Toto Wolf, and I don't hold this against him, by the way, I think he is fueled by revenge. And I think he's being pretty open about it. He believes, people will argue rightly or wrongly, that he has been wronged. He has been wrong. The team has been wronged. And Lewis Hamilton has been wrong for what happened at Abu Dhabi, 2021. And I think it is, at this point his sole objective to get that championship back. And if I was a betting man, I'd say that as soon as that happens, I think Toto Wolf, I don't think he disappears, but I think he goes ahead with what he was going to do a few years ago,

which was kind of go off into the background and sort of let others run the show on more of a on the ground perspective and maybe the day-to-day perspective. I don't think I think Toto Wolf might be there for a very long time in terms of the company as a whole. But as, you know, his position leading the team, I think he is right there. He's there at the moment just for that very reason, which is to get that championship back. And I think, yeah, he's been pretty open that he'd like to do that with Lewis Hamilton, which is an interesting one. It is an interesting one from George Russell's perspective, because that sort of comment will naturally make you ask questions about, you know, the motivations

of your boss and how that compares with your team. teammates. So yeah, I think this is overall very positive news. I'm intrigued to, I'm intrigued to see how it goes. And I'm intrigued by the length of the deal, which is what I wanted to ask you about Sam, which is, you know, the end of 2026 does go one year beyond Lewis Hamilton's current deal. Do you think this is in any way a bit of a message to Lewis Hamilton to say, you know, I, if this goes into the new regulations, I'm still going to be here. We're still going to get this done. and does that then motivate him to extend for longer if need to be? I think it's probably the perfect length of deal they could have given him.

It sets up for so many solutions. And I think the one you just mentioned is one of them of, you know, we get to the end of 2025 and let's say, I don't know, the car is still not 100% there and the 26 regs come along. And they then try and deliver it. You're right. Lewis Hamilton might go, okay, I trust Toto, I trust the team. We go one more year.

We go again. On the other hand, say Lewis Hamilton wins his eighth title in 2025, and Hamilton goes, that's it for me, that's the end of my contract, I'm good, I've got everything I want now, I move on. Toto then has a year where he can simply facilitate a handover in a new era to someone new. It gives them a whole year again of stability. It allows him to, not train someone up, but it allows them to arrange things properly without any rush because he's achieved all the objectives he wants so he can have a full year of, this is new design, new era, new Mercedes, new team, new boss. I'm going to step aside over time and let someone

come into play, 2027 runs around, he's off in the distance, something else is running the shop. So I think either scenario that pans out, this is a very timely and appropriate deal. I think it works on both ways and can be PR'd very easily both ways if it needs to be. I also think that George Russell, of course, runs still 2025 as well. I think they've timed that. So Lewis Wing saying in 2025, George Russell's still there. It's the same thing. And Toto now goes, I stick with you, George.

We work for one more year together. I'll then step aside and you'll be the main man because Lewis has got that title that he wanted. So I think for every counterpart of Masege's that are at the top that are at the forefront of the team, this works really, really well. It's what I would have done if I were a clever person. There are many things you'd have done if you're a clever person.

Oh, I know. It's a very tough life. I'll start a podcast. That's the stupidest. Speaking of clever people, what do you think, Harry? Hey! on the length of the contract, Ben. Yeah.

Oh, right. Take back the clever comment, then. I don't know why he gave it in the first place. Yeah, look, this is a, it's, it's, it's, it is to encourage Mr. Hamilton, right? Surely. And the money. And the money, obviously. Toto is so rich.

Toto's so rich. I don't know if, just go and have a look at his life. He's so rich. I was just, weirdly, but while Ben was introducing the topic, I was like, I wonder what his bank account looks like. I bet he's just rolling in. Many zeros. So many zeros.

Before the decimal. Yeah. I have so many after. And he has this weird thing in his bank account. There's not that minus sign in front of it. Oh. Oh, really? Is it like Fahrenheit?

Sure. I'm not talking Fahrenheit again. Banned. Farang height of wealth that I'll ever see in my life. Yeah, look, I'm completely good with what you say, Sam. it's, it's, why not, you want that stability going into, I know the last set of regulation changes weren't necessarily good for Mercedes,

but, you know, it was, he couldn't have carried this odd and forever what they were doing. It was bound to go downhill at some point, allowed for what, after what he's done. But for the stability of, of the next war changes, why would you not guarantee that he's going to be there for at least the first year? And he'll probably sign for a longer again.

I think so. yeah well look how long christian horn has been around for i know but i think i think i think toto's tired tired i do i think he's a bit tired he's a tired man i think christian hornet like we said he cut him and he bleeds rebel he is an energy drink i think it's i think whereas toto i think he's like i've achieved i've done it i'm i'm good after this it's similar but it's almost the motivation to win is the same but it's just in different arenas possibly because at the moment they're in obviously the same arena. But I think Christian Horner is so dedicated to winning on track.

And I'm not saying that Toto Wolf isn't, but as we've already referenced, Toto Wolf wins in every aspect of life. And I feel like he can get that sense of winning without being in his current position and being a bit more in the background as an investor, which I guess is his position. He owns a third of the team. Whereas I think Christian, enjoys being more front and centre with the operations.

Do you think we're currently watching Toto Wolfe's, like, backstory before he turns into like an evil villain? You know, like this is the making of, like, you know, like the Joker film that came out with Yakin' Phoenix. I reckon this is it for Toto Wolf. Ben, move on. Gladly. Sure.

Yeah, we'll take our second break. On the other side, we've got comments from Pat Fry to talk about. Oh, let him cook. What's he, Frye, literally. Savage is. Tell us your fillings. Okay, welcome back. Pat Frye, who has been Chief Technical Officer at Williams since November.

I think he's been there since then. And of course, previously of Alpine. Now, on the podcast previously, we have discussed some rather unsavory is not the right word, but he hasn't exactly been complementary of his previous employer Alpine. And he was talking to the, Formula One website recently about his couple months stint at William so far. He said the following, you need patience. People have six month notice period, summer a year. I think the project we have here is really exciting and it's a case of trying to inspire other people to join that project.

Things that we're restricting us at Alpine are not a problem here. The board are behind us. They want to invest. They want to do all the right things. So the opportunity is there. We will make another step next year, but my eye is on the longer term things. We need a three or five year vision. So for the right people, we are going to wait a year or a year and a half, but it's all about getting key people in the right places and changing the mindset we have as a company. Interesting comments, Sam. This is heart wrenching for Alpine, I think. This is like he's taking a bat to Alpine and he's just laid into them. He did that last year. I know. He's Alpine's mulled on the ground and he's still hitting them.

And they haven't got up yet and he's come back round for another go. He's already dead. It's like the bat was one time. Let me now pick up, I know, the garden rake. Gave you this time. It's just, it's like a punching bag for him. It's like he goes to the gym and he just binks up Alpine every time. Honestly, the man doesn't miss though, does he?

The points he makes are calculators. They're sensible. They're built on logic. I think he's got a fair point. You look at the difference in dynamic between Alpine, who whilst have beaten Williams confidently for what the last five, six years at least, basically since they joined as Renault, they've been beating Williams. And then you look at Williams now who have been struggling at the back year after year after year.

And yet someone like Pat Frye, who is so hugely respected amongst Formula One fans up and down the paddock, turns up at Williams and goes, it's better here. It's going to work here. We have investment. We have logic. We have a team. We're willing to do the one. waiting game to find the right people.

And they're doing all the things that Alping don't, because the board can't invest when there aren't anyone on the board, because there's only three people in the whole business. One of them is Ben. And one of them's a dog. I'm on the board. Yeah. Ben is bored, more like.

Borg of Alpine's misery. And he's bored of us. Probably. Fair enough. Usually. Yeah. Yeah. And he's right, though.

You look at the kind of the, the aura around Williams at the moment. And, you know, they've brought in so much talent up and down the team. James Vowels, Papa Vowals, who, you know, really knows how they motivate the mind and soul, and other things for certain people on the show. It's Papa Toto, but it's Daddy Voles.

Oh, come on. I feel very dirty about that. I thought I was... Could have to have to have a shower. Yeah. Oh, dear. Please don't ever say that word again. Wash your mouth out with soap, that's so... Anyway, they're building a bloody strong team. I just think Al Paine

don't really know what they're doing with themselves. They've got this silly mentality of, you know, firing people willy-nilly or starting up a daycare company and not actually running a team. And then you've got celebrity investors coming in who don't know anything about what they're doing in the sport. They just go, I want to put some money somewhere. And it's not being put to good use.

I can see why Pat Fry's turn around and said this. And I imagine he's joined this team, seeing what James Vowler's been doing with the training that he got at Mercedes after their incredible successful period that they had. And so I can be a part of this project. It's an exciting project. And comments like this will make drivers who are looking for an ambitious project who maybe can't get into a Mercedes line up or a Red Ball lineup go,

I've got a few years. I'll stick, I'll give Williams a go. I'll stick it out. I'll try and put my all in for Williams because it might turn into something. And I think they're onto something. I think they're on the very start of the road to possible success. or I think Alpine is still free-fallen. And I think Pat Fry's right.

Let him cook. I think if you exclude the Alpine comment side of this and you just look at what Pat Fry's saying about Williams. I don't know, Harry, if you saw this the same way as I did, but it almost sounds like James Vowles could be saying the same thing. In that you read the quote and you wouldn't necessarily know it wasn't from James Vowse. To me, that's fairly encouraging that you've got someone in such a senior position who it feels like is on exact.

the same wavelength to the top dog. Yeah, it seems like a shared vision they've got. Cohesive. Yeah. Because last year when they're, you know, Williams were close to losing P7 with Alphatari. And I think we discussed this, but James Vals almost said, nothing else.

Almost said the other one. James Vals was saying that, you know, it doesn't matter if we do finish seventh or eighth, because this isn't the goal. There's a longer term goal here. And I think it's exactly the same spiel that Pat Fry's coming out with. And that's very, it's very encouraging. It does, there does seem to be just quite a good energy around Williams at the moment.

And I think rightly so with the sort of people they're putting in place there in James iles, we trust. Yeah, it's encouraging to see. And I think for me, it was always the problem, and I'm not going, not slagging Claire Williams off. but it was always the sort of problem around the Claire Williams era of Williams where yes they had that success and got third a couple times in the championship but it was it just felt like they were surviving they were surviving year to year and there was no actual long-term plan and that's how we've ended up where Williams are

because they just they sort of fell down and have been for a few years though yeah I mean the last time they were third was 2015 yeah yeah yeah nearly a decade ago So this is very encouraging. On the Alpine comments, it's like he keeps posting the picture of his new girlfriend or sending the picture of his new girlfriend to his ex-girlfriend. I wouldn't even say that Alpine was his ex. Just someone he knew.

Just some thing that he looked at once. Oh, not that. It's funny, though. I enjoy it. I love it. I got all the time for Pat Frye, frying I'm up. Give me two eggs and some. Bakel got that sign of Alpine. Right.

We're never talking about Pat Fry again. Nothing against Pat Frye is just your name. That's a great name. There's some, there's a game in there. He's an open door. That's all he sees. What's Pat Fry cooking up? What's Pat Fry in this week?

Oh, guys. Let's have a Pat Fry up. I'd have it on the wall in the office if I was in. How'd you know he doesn't? Pat, let us know. Anyway. Yeah, he's what. A bigger listener of the show, obviously.

A friend of the podcast. Yeah, this is very encouraging. It's very much the primary objective of what he's doing here is, is building the team and getting like-minded folk to work with him. And, yeah, like he says, Williams are not going to win anything this year. Like, maybe they finish seventh again. Maybe they finish ninth. Maybe they finish fourth.

But they're not winning anything. Let's put it that way. And that's probably going to be the case next year as well, just based on the current regulation cycle. So if you know, are pretty confident that you're not going to win anything over the next couple of years, of course it makes sense to put that three to five year plan in place and just making sure you've got the appropriate personnel to see that through. And when you've got that long term plan in place, you can be more selective about who's going to join you on that journey. there's no hiring people for short-term gain to get that one great idea to see you over the line to win a championship. There's none of that here.

This is all very much long-term thinking. And the benefit, I guess, that Williams have over some of the other teams that might be in a similar spot, championship-wise, to them at the moment, is the heritage, right? They have such heritage that there's going to be people who are, you know, might be considering this as an opportunity. who will be able to look back nostalgia-wise on the successes of the team probably with them growing up. If you were growing up in the 1980s or the 1990s, a lot of prospective candidates for roles at Williams probably were, you more than likely would have seen a Williams world champion, whether that was the early 80s of like Alan Jones, whether it was the mid-90s with the likes of Mansell and Prost and Damon Hill. You're going to have a Williams, Williams have been

successful in your life. And I think we know that whenever you're presented with an opportunity and you have such fond memories of the team, you're going to look for reasons to believe that opportunity to be a good one. Your brain will, without even thinking. Your brain is going to subconsciously

give you every possible opportunity to make you believe that it's the right thing to do. So I think they do stand a good chance of getting the right people on board and just making sure, this long-term thing happens. In terms of the Alpine comments, it is pretty funny.

Honestly, this is scatven. The board are behind us. That shouldn't be a plus of a job. That should just be a given. But it's not if he's comparing it to Alpine and saying that wasn't there, where the board aren't behind us or they didn't want to invest.

And it does, Sam, you already brought this up. It really entertains the idea, that all of this celebrity investment is very much, it's almost like a political ploy of putting on a side show of, look at all these people who are interested in our brand, whilst over here, like the actual things that are happening, it's all going a bit wrong. Pat Fry, at least in the world of F1,

Travis Kelsey and Trent Alexander Arnold and everyone else in that group, they, respectfully, they don't matter. Pat Fry matters. In the world of F1, in the sport of, F1, what he says matters. So I would listen to what you're saying very closely.

Someone does say more, but he's banned from saying Pat Frye. Oh, I did want to say something else. Go on, one more. It's not good. It's not good. You know, in Ted Lassow, he's got the believe above his door. Oh, God. Why do we let him do this? Yes. You think Pat Frye's got a picture of a fry out?

Because it's fry up. Okay, we walks in, he slaps it. Every morning. Every morning. I bang. Fry up. I have never met. Pat fry.

I can say with the utmost confidence, however, the answer to that question is no. I would love it if he releases a photo of like a door with a fry up above it. Do you want to know a really random pat fry fact? I would love a fry up fact. Pat fact. My dad has two of his shirts. How's he acquired those?

Any context. Yeah, stolen. He did something at work with a relation. daughter, I don't know. They paid him in clothes. I think they also paid in money, but they were like, would you like, they found out he was an F-on-F-O-F-O-Fat. I'm like, would you like some shirts?

She's got a McLaren one and a Bennington one. Cool. I bet he was all over that. Yeah, I don't think he's ever worn them, but they're hanging up. Pat fries shirts. And the wall at home? Nah. They're in the wardrobe, I think.

One day we'll do a late-breaking auction. They'll go for millions. They will win. They will win on everything. Williams millions. there you go. Now we are moving on. Bad fact of the week.

Thumb dog, William Eyre. I hope you two come with another pat facts in the next podcast. Christian Horner is the next topic. Glory, I go ahead. Oh dear. I don't actually know. I don't know what we're saying now.

Yeah. He's admitted that everything is open when it comes to the 2025 driver lineup. Of course, we know that Max Verstappen is there for the long haul. but Sergio Perez only has a contract until the end of this upcoming season. And there are a lot of prospective candidates for what is, or at least should be, a very, very good seat. I do have something here from Christian Horne.

He said, as a team, you want to field the most competitive pairing that you can have, and you want the right dynamic in the team. Max and Checo have been a tremendously successful pairing. Checo, in his three years with us, has finished fourth, third and second. So he's on a good trajectory. Daniel is well known to us. it's great to have him back in the Red Bull fold. And of course, everything is open for 2025 onwards.

For us to have options internally and also externally is no bad place to be. What do you think, Sam? What does, what do each of those drivers really need to deliver on in order to be in contention for that seat? I think Sergio Perez just needs to be more consistent. If the Red Bull is as good as it was last year or even a bit as good as it was last year, then there's every chance that Max Verstappen could go on to wing. I know 15 of all the races even if it's not as good. If Sergio Perez can just close that gap up in the points tally a bit and finish second again,

realistically, I think he's probably done enough to secure himself a year, maybe enough to get to the end of this current cycle of cars as it is. Daniel Ricardo is a bit of an unknown entity. I know that sounds very odd considering how much we've seen of Daniel Ricardo, but it really is tough to know what he's going to pull out over the entire season, especially in a car that in theory we think might be much further up the field than it actually was. Now they've agreed to be much closer to the Red Bull major team rather than this minor option that they've been running. We haven't got on to their new name yet.

Via cash out racing balls. How have they managed to outdo stake? It might be the worst year of F1 names ever. If they are going to be called that, I am... Toro Rossi. Yeah, Menardy and Toro Rossi will accept his correct answers. Anyway, Daniel Riccardo needs to shine. He really has to shine because if Checo gets second again this year

and Max Verstappen wins another title, what more could they ask of Daniel Ricardo that Checo isn't doing, right? If he's bringing home the constructor's title and he's finishing runger up in the championship to Max Verstappan their understandable golden child, why do they need Daniel Ricardo? What does Daniel Ricardo bring other than branding that Sergio Perez doesn't bring?

And Sergeo Perez is massive in South and Central America and, of course, in Mexico. The guy brings in so much... By that one down. There you go. Sogeo Perez, massive in Mexico. That would mean the name of his autobiography, I'm sure. My point here is, while Stanley Ricaga has such brilliant appeal in the European market, around Australia, of course, and in certain areas of North America,

Sergio Perez is no slouch in the marketing zone either. So Daniel Ricardo's got a really outshine him and I think he's got a hope that Sergio Perez lacks. Yuccasinawa didn't even get a mention and I think understandably so. I don't think there's any chance that Yuccasnaud gets that drive unless something happens to both Ricardo and Checo this season when they both go, can't be bothered anymore.

Seats wide open. And even then, I don't know if he's actually the favourite to take that second seat. And of course, Liam Lawson, who is the major, major outside option, I think he's been guaranteed a seat in that team in the Menardi for 2025 anyway. So Yuki's going to have his tail between his legs and need to pull out an absolute stellar

of a season to even get a chance here. Otherwise, I think it's going to be game over for Yuki and that family, that racing family. So yeah, I think Perez is probably in the... He's holding the best seat. He's got all the cars to his chest. I think he's in a good place. What do you think, Gary?

I think that if anything's going to change, we need to have 24 races and they've all got to be like the Mexican GP was in 2023. Or he just crashes into the... Sergio Perez has to have an absolute stinker of a season. And Daniel Ricardo has to be as good as he was in the Mexican GP in 2020. You think it needs to be that extreme across the full season? Because...

Okay, there's an exaggeration. I like the example, though. But it... You're right, he could... Perez can... Peres can... Not cruise, but he can still probably stumble his way through this year. if he has the same year again.

And do okay. If he has exactly the same year again, I don't see why they would swap them. And I think that my point was with the example was, there are a few factors. Daniel Ricardo could have an absolutely belting season and have like Mexican GP over and over again. But if Perez is just doing enough,

I still don't think they'll change him. You don't think they'll risk it? No, because if he's doing enough, he's doing enough and that's all Redbourne need from him. So I think there's sort of two factors. Ricardo needs to have the best year of his life or one of and Paris needs to have a bit of a bit of a stinker. So, um,

gonna be interested to watch. I also think Ricardo would be willing to rock the boat if he got to Red Bull. I think Ricardo would want to win. Because I think, as much as I think Sergio Perez wants to win, that's a Formula One driver's thing. They want to be the best. I think he's also very aware of his position

after the career he's being through and understands that this is the best it's going to get for him. Does he want to mut that up? I know we're talking about a driver from, now eight six years ago. But Daniel Ricardo was the last driver to be anywhere near the staff on a more regular basis. He beat him in the same car across the season

when that Red Bull was very competitive, not race swinging on the regular, but a very competitive car. So, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, Red Bull have got such, and we don't know what the 2024 car is going to be like, but let's assume that even if, as you say, Sam, it's like 75% of what it was last year,

Red Bull are in such a powerful position because anyone's going to want to drive that. It's very few drivers that would turn around and go, nah, don't want that car. It's a very good position to be in. And because it's such a good position to be in, Red Bull and Christian Horner and everyone else within the organisation, they hold the cars. I mean, they've got the power and it's almost everyone is auditioning for it this year. And certainly Perez and Ricardo would be the two most likely candidates. I think Daniel Ricardo has to answer the question of, does he still have it?

And Sergio Perez has to answer the question of, you know, can he get it done if the championship is closer? Or if, you know, if the cars are still as good as what it was last year, can he do a very similar job or even better? And it will just be a question of,

I'll actually think it would be fairly simple. It would be who can answer that question better throughout the course of this year? And they will go in whatever direction as a result of that. I think you're right. I mean, Yuki Sonoda, unless he pulls out maybe one of the greatest seasons

in F1 history. I think it's probably not going to happen for him. And the Yuki-Sinoda has improved year-on-year, but it's a different prospect entirely to have probably the best seat in F-1 next year. And Liam Lawson, you know, the problem of Liam Lawson is his question mark is F-1 experience,

which he can't really do anything about. So he can't do anything to, there's no way he's going straight into the Red Bull. So, yeah, I'd say those two are the most interesting candidates from an internal perspective. I have to say the quote itself from Christian Horner didn't really stand out

to me much at all. I read through it until the last sentence which was for us to have options internally and also externally is no bad place to me. Do you think it's still Lando?

I think they're still pining for Lando, aren't they? A little bit. Yeah. I think LeCleur might be on the cards a little bit. He's signed until 2029. He's not going anywhere.

Mang is sentencing himself to a life on a baron shot. Frule Leclair, teaches and hearing skill available. I just feel like Christian Hoy, if he'd said this, because if you take out the middle part of that sentence and he just said, for us to have options is no bad place to be, that still makes sense that he could have said that. But there's a very good, everything's there for a reason.

There is a very good reason why he's put that middle part in there to have options internally and also externally. I think first and foremost, it's a motivational kick for everyone intern, to say, yeah, you're in a good spot because you're already in the stable, but that don't guarantee anything. But that's also a bit of a shout out to, maybe Lando Norris, maybe another driver like LeClaude, say, hey, look, doors open. We'd be looking.

Do you think if Norris can't get a wing in the Maca this year, it might be time? Well, they're going to, they're real confident. Apparently, again, a smash the entire season. He's been very loyal as Landon Norris, but I, And I respect the effort he's putting into that team because he's really sticking through it because he's a hot, hot tamalee on the grid, and he's a hot property.

So I'm a little bit surprised he's stuck out and fair play to you. I think if it goes badly this season, it might be time to walk through that door. Who, I mean, who on the grid outright rejects Red Bull without having to think about it? Lewis Hamilton.

Lewis Hamilton. Is there another person out there that goes, know, like immediately. Maybe, maybe, and I'm saying, again, it's a George Russell, that's a maybe. Yeah, he'd be the other one, maybe. He thinks about it. That's what I'm saying, yeah.

It's just a maybe. I think, I think, if the project looks good, but I think science would take it, a longso would be there in a bloody snap of a finger. Absolutely. They wouldn't have finished the question. He'll be there, he'd like, fully,

yes, suitly booted, he'd be in the microwave. Oh my God. Fernando, what's going on here? Cooking. Alonzo just, was it, was it TikTok? Yeah. Yeah, just uploaded a video of him pretending to be in a microphone.

That's literally it. But he put the phone in the microwave, TikTok it on and they went, v, and spank around in a little circle. I've got to say, you don't know, but I really hope he's always been like this and I'm so happy if so, we're now seeing it.

Because he's so funny. How did you think she pretends to be the mic? He's like, I'm going to show the world today. There must be someone suggesting this to him. Fernando, I've got a great idea for a TikTok. Was it you?

Wasn't me? You're one of the most likely candidates. You are. So true. Wasn't me. Yeah, Fernando, I've got an idea. Can you just take your phone? Be it.

Then pretend you're in a microwave. Put it in the microwave and then pretend to be the microwave. There's also the shock factor of he's going to microwave his phone in. It's going to explode. Sike. He is the microwave.

I feel like that's the other way around. I don't think this is somewhat. Aston Martin wise suggesting it to him and him doing it. This is him doing it. And that's someone at Astor Marr going, what on earth is he doing? Imagine someone walked into the kitchen and going, Boy, do you in Fernando?

Fernando, you have to turn the microwave on? I am the microwave. I am always on. It's the problem. He's so F1 centric and so racing centric that anything outside of that is just he can't really do. No. Let me cook.

Pat. Except that he can do because it's done very well that TikTok. Oh, he's so good. Oh, well, very true. Right, we'll take our final break of today and then we'll be playing F1 back and forth on the other side. There's a pair of sleepy boys. He's going to be playing today.

Do you think we, if we did that TikTok, it'd be as funny? I reckon I'd get seven likes. Us three. Kirstie. We're in the microwave. Yeah. Do you remember the video of us? was it, there's a Danny Kaviat pit stop that was really slow.

And for whatever reason, it included you using your microwave, Sam. No, it was the pedal. No, it wasn't like it was a kettle. Oh, that's poor content. Yeah, I made a cup of tea. You were making a cup of tea in a quicker time than the pit stop. Yes, and I filmed me running down the stairs, making the tea, bringing it back up together and sitting back down before the pit stop was finished.

Do you know what? I'm not mad of that. That's good content. That on TikTok now With bang Okay, here we go F1, back and forth That's the wrong jingle, you fools

Sorry, sorry I apologize everyone F1 Back and forth It's F1 Back and forth it goes backwards Then goes forth It's F1

Back and forth F1 I'm sure many of you will already know the rules to back and forth but for those of you that are new first of all, hello, welcome along, hope you're enjoying.

I hope you're not new today because it's terrible episode please back and forth so this is a game where Sam goes up against Harry there are 17 in this instance correct answers to a question

they go back and forth until they can't think of one or they get an answer wrong would you like to hear what your categories today? I suppose so. Better do. Yeah, quite tired.

All right. Well, here it is. Michael Schumacher. He finished on the podium in every single race in the 2002 F1 season. Can you name the 17 races? Just let him do it.

Just let him do it. I thought we're about to do a game we already did because we did a Schumacher podium. That was people with him on the podium, wasn't it? Thanks on Dallasine recently. How many Schumacher ones have we got coming up? The Ralph next.

This is the only one, I promise. So I'll be kind. You can either give me the name of the Grand Prix itself or the circuit that it took place at. I'll accept either answer. So 17 overall. Every race of the 2020, 2022, 2002 season. Correct.

Yeah. I'm not getting this. You've got to carry me. Pick me up and carry me. Take me home. Harry you on your shoulders. While asleep. You can start, Sam.

I'll go Australian Grand Prix. Makes sense. He won the Australian Grand Prix, which was the first race of the 2002 season. Over to you, Harry. Malaysian Grand Prix. How long can we go in order, I think, is a subplot in this game.

I have lost after that. I don't know. There's no barring. Yeah, exactly. I'm screwed. Any idea what was significant about that Malaysian Grand Prix, Harry? It was in Malaysia. Someone else get their first podium. Kimmy? Well, I was going to go with,

it's the only race that he actually finished worse than second. He finished third in this one, but that was the only third place he had in that year. Honestly, people big him up all the time. Third place. Hushed, scrub. Yeah, and that's the worst it got for him all year. Not a bad year, right?

Right, over to you, Sam. I'm having a think, because I was trying to go in order. But I don't think I can go in order. The flyaway season back then wasn't many flyaways. No. I don't, yeah. I'm just going to say, because I think it's definitely in there. It's definitely not in order, though.

Japanese Grand Prix. Yep, you've gone to the other end. Yes, I thought so. The Japanese Grand Prix was the last race of the season, which he won. So, yeah, that was the 17th of 17, that year. That's fine. Back to you, Harry. Brazilian Grand Prix.

Yes, weirdly, that. That was the third race of the season back then after Malaysia. He won that race, but only by half a second over Ralph Schumacher. And can you tell me what was significant about that race? Why are you looking at me? I don't know. I have no idea. What happened?

Pele. Wave the flag. Oh, yeah, lap early. Oh, God. Wash Pele. All these greats. Can't do anything right. Back to you, Sam.

The Spanish Grand Prix. Yeah, so that was race five of the season. This was another race that he won, surprisingly. And that was his first grand slam since 1994. So won the race, led every lap, got pole, all the rest of it. It's mad that he managed to win the Australian Open, the Wimbledon. I'll go next. The San Marino Grand Prix.

I was going to say that. And that was the fourth race of the season. That was a one-two for Ferrari, although he was very comfortable to be clear of Barakello on that day. So, yeah, that's another correct answer. Back to you, Sam. The British Grand Prix. The British Grand Prix.

Courcious, right. Race 10 of the season, another one he won by 14 and a half seconds over Rubens Barakello. It's not the one who drove for the pit lane from, was it? That's 98. Okay, thank you. Harry, Monaco, Gron. Grand Prix.

Monaco Grand Prix. That was race seven of the season. He was runner up to the King of Monaco, of course. David Coulthard. His greatest rival. I go to Belgium. Spack. Going to Belgium.

Yes, that's the correct answer. That was the 14th race of that season. Another win over Barakello in second. Harry. The least controversial one of that season, Austrian Grand Prix. Yeah. No problems whatsoever with that win.

Definitely didn't have Rubens Barrichello moved to one side in order for him to win that Grand Prix. No, no, no, no, real close finish. Like, it was only a half second, in it? Over the line. Less than that, I think. Yeah. I can't think about that race without hearing

John Watson's commentary. It's a disgrace. Ben Edwards and John Watson. Best F1 commentary combo. Right, who've we got next? Or what have we got next, I should ask. Back to you, Sam. Monza.

Monza. This was a start, is a correct answer, obviously. It's a start reminder of how the calendar was different, because this was the third to last race of that year. You had Monza and then two more after it. But yes, he finished second, although only a quarter of a second behind Barracello on that occasion. Can I ask what races we've got left in numbers?

He's obviously not the answers. That would be stupid. What are the rest of them? 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16. It was more than I thought left. Oh, okay. Okay. Another really close finish,

United States GP. Again, nothing controversial. Even less controversial. You know how when you, you know, multiply two negative numbers and you get positive, that's what they tried to do with the US GP at Indianapolis.

One by Rubens Barak. Kellogg by 0.0.011 seconds. What belt in season they had in 2002. Unreal, those two. They were so close. Oh dear. Back to you, Sam. We've got five answers left on the board.

German Grand Prix. German Grand Prix is correct. That was another win for him at Hockenheim. Yeah, big up Hockenheim, man. I miss Hockenheim. Yeah, agreed. That was the first year on the new layout. I still also like the old layout.

I like the old layout. But the new layout also good. Yeah. That's a good show, yeah. It was around then, wasn't it? Through the forest. Like to you, Harry. The Hungarian GP.

Nice. The Hungarian Grand Prix. That was one where he finished second place. But yes, correct answer. That was race 13 of the season. Three left on the board. I'm flagging a little bit now, mate. I'm not going to lie.

Yeah, I'm in struggle town a little bit here. Yeah, I'm going to take a punk. I'm going to go the Canadian Grand Prix. Oh, great shout. It was a great champ. Canadian Grand Prix was the eighth race of that season. He won by just over a second over David Calthar, but I think that was a Williams should have won race. But, you know, BMW engines don't usually go the distance, did they?

Now, I have one more answer in my mind. I'm going to telepathically tell you to not select that answer because if you take it away from me and we end up getting the last one wrong, I mean, this might also be wrong anyway. but okay got it good French GP God

damn it oh no no no correct answer Kimi Rikin nearly beat him that day he was about

the second almost so I'm going to you sorry which means there is one answer left it was race nine

of this season can you name it it but you know these schedules, they bounce around all over the shop. Is it European? No. Is it European?

Go on, Ben. Is it European? Yeah, you can say it feels European because it literally was the European Grand Prix. Oh, you've got this. Oh, it's European Grand Prix. Yeah, but can you say, is that come? Yeah.

I mean, technically it does, but can you tell me where it was? Is it the Nürbergring? Yeah. What was that the Nürbergring? I knew when I said the German Grand Prix, I saw him hesitate for a moment. And I wonder if that's why.

Phil's. Yep. That was a close one. That's your outro sorted. No, that got sorted a long time. Oh,

that has it really? Okay. A last random stat on that season. Yeah, love one. Michael Schumacher finished second five times

out of those 17 races, but he was never second by more than one second. He was within one second of the race winner in all the five that he was second place. Just a weird stat.

That is a great weird staff. It's five seconds away from winning every single Grand Prix, apart from that third place. Huge. Yeah. He was like a minute behind in Malaysia. But if you know that one, all the others,

he was within one second winning. Honestly, what's the point if you're a minute behind us? He was retire the car in Malaysia. Retire. Yeah. Oh, dear. His brother won anyway,

so he still could have claimed Schumacher. The records will state that Schumacher won. Forever and ever. It will. Well, I enjoyed F1 back and forth. that was a really good segment, but it just wasn't quite, wasn't quite the greatest segment

in all of Formula One. Podcasting, it is the... Question of the... We... Oh, sorry. We... Lovely. How are you playing him like a fiddle?

Got him. Got there in the end. What did we ask the folks this time? We asked the folks about good to start. and what his next job should be now that he's gone. And as expected, we got very serious answers, didn't we? Honestly, it's good to see that our listeners are far more serious than we are. And the answers you're about to hear will reflect that seriousness.

We even went for a strategy. We even, Kerski said to us, who planned this social media account, does a great job. I want to ask something more Formula One based so new listeners can get behind it. And it's not just about us three as hosts. And it's gone well. It's gone very well, as you're about to hear. The first answer on Instagram from Rosen Boomerang says remake Daddy Daycare with Otmar. Great.

John thought was fun. Ang was the most like coming on Instagram. So glad that's still getting jokes out of that. We are churning the content out of that one. Tom Lennox Robb on Instagram just said, just relax and have cheesy bino, I reckon. I think he meant cheesy beans. Cheezy bino. It's funny that he said cheesy bino.

Maybe that's the thing. Cheesy beino. Or like the newspaper, the magazine used to get. The bino, but cheesy. On Twitter, Malanga Moorcroft said, become a full-time model for Aldi, which I absolutely love. Just imposing extra other catalogue items like that,

tying a little boat. Jessa Gilby said start a donkey sanctuary. Why? I don't know. Haynes Noah 9, it says, analytics man. But that role's already taking on that, yeah, there it is.

Maybe they can battle it out as the door smasher, like his evil nemesis. There are a lot on here about something smashing door. Yeah. Yeah. Well done to everyone who smashed doors

in their comments. Maybe Swaby said Cook a Gaman, which is always a good thing to do if you're bored. That's great. McKenzie here on Instagram went down the route

that we all kind of suggested, which was he should start a little Netflix show where he, Bonotto and Schaffner vacation around Europe because they're all now unemployed and have the time,

which I think would just be delightful. And genuinely, you know that program with Gino de Campo, Gorgon Ramsey and Fred? Yeah, I'd watch. that. I would watch the F-1 version of that. No. No. Go on, Ben. Go on, Ben.

No, I can't say it. Can you say some of the words? I haven't seen this answer before. Who's it from? Who's it from. It's from Ali. How far? Is it on Instagram? Yes. Well, you've made me last. You've seen every single comment before actually getting here, but I didn't see that one. off guard. It's Norsi, go and check out our Instagram,

late breaking F1, and you can find you can take a guess as what which one it was that make us giggle. Becca G said that he should be my replacement when I'm not there. I mean, we get our money's worth. Hey, you're always here now. Still 100% folks.

Honestly. 100p. Which on New Year's resolution, attend my own job. Yes. Well done. And I'm smashing it so far. Billy Jacobs is to Sam's personal grocery shopper only buying sandwich fillings. I wonder what choose. Running Man 26.

Dot to Devon. Come to Devon and sell Hawking's ice creams in Westwood Ho with Ben. Sure. My pleasure. No worries. Ben's breathing in Devon.

He's in Cornwall. I'll take the trip up. It's fine. Sounds like good a bit. I'll throw away's Westwood Ho. Devon is our arch. Nemesis as a location. Boo.

To Devon. You do scones wrong. Everly 17 said that he should in fact come to America. and coach the Dallas Cowboys, which I'd be a fan of. And it can't go any worse for the Dallas Cowboys, put it that way. Sorry, Cowboys' phones.

Saggi, hi-noises. Yeah. Richard Fish said you should start a TV show called Bechukh, which I don't know what will happen on the TV show. He just calls Gene. For an hour straight. Every week. It's left a voicemail all the time.

Hello, Gene. It's I, Guintra. I don't know what that accent is. So it sounds like that. It's a four-person call between. Gene Gunter Steiner, you and the banker, but everyone is calling each other, but everyone thinks they don't have to pick up.

You don't know who you'll get through to. Plot twist. They're all me. Yeah, some great ones. Any of the last ones? I don't think so. I think I've gone through cell boats from Fuzzy Alley.

Enjoyed that one. That's simple. Everyone truth is starting only fans where he just smash his doors on video. Oh, we'll pay for that. Premium. War-smashing content. It smashes your doors. Wow. $500 a month. Easy. I'm all over that.

Good Lord. Right. Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here. What a show it's been today. As we've mentioned a few times, check our social media is out, late breaking F1 everywhere you go. And this has been videotaped. So it is going to be available on YouTube. Ben is politely waving at the camera and his handsome self. You've also check out our Patreon. We've got extra spicy content coming on Patreon very soon as a beer with breaking is also being, well, that's those. spicy. I just mean the topics on the extra episodes

we do. There won't be any door smashing or anything like that going on, okay. We've got some, you know, great perks on there. It's getting a revamp soon, so keep your eyes peeled. We think you get good value for money on there, and it massively supports the show, and you get a lot more of us, if that's something anyone would actually

like. Discourse is available, links in the description, and don't forget to fill out the form about live shows. Have your say. We'd love for you to come and see this, and we'd love to come and see you and talk and do this in front of people, so please get involved. think that's everything for now. So in the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Daddy Valves.

Nice. I remember. Keep breaking late. Oh, I fancy a fry-up. Oh. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.