The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Hunting McLaren: Who can close the gap?

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

The LB boys break down who of the chasing teams has the best shot at reeling in McLaren, and what they need to fix to make it happen. They also discuss Carlos Sainz Sr.'s potential bid for FIA president, and the proposal to raise pit lane speed limits to spice up strategy, before wrapping up with their Top 5 “What Ifs” in F1 history... FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ SUPPORT our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for bonus episodes JOIN our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ community JOIN our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! TIDE: Save more, earn more—up to 4.22% AER (variable). Interest rates are tiered, with the top rate for balances over £1M. Each tiered rate applies to the portion within that range. New Tide members get these rates free for 6 months; after that, your Tide plan’s rates apply. For full offer T&Cs visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tide.co/savings⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking, for the first time in a while on this non-race weekend Sunday. But we're here anyway. Sam, you've had free pizza today, so you're happy. Yeah, I've been around the wedding fairs. I'm going to tell you, if you've ever been to a wedding,

fair, it doesn't matter if you're getting married or not. Just go. It's a great day out. Lots of free food. You get a free Prosecco a lot of the time. And often there's some nice man going, oh, try my pizza. You might like it. I go, yes, sir, I will, sir. Thank you very much, sir. And then I walk away and never speak to him again. And it's a great Sunday. So I would, I recommend. Do they all speak like that when they're offering out their free pizza? Oh, try. Oh, try. Three bags, sir. Oh, try my pizza. Oh, please. Bye from me. Oh. And I go.

I take their leaflet and their pizza and I run away. Except you actually tell them that. It's not an internal dialogue. I don't have an internal dialogue. Everything is out loud. Oh my God. We haven't got time for this. Sam's got an Azdraud.

We need to get on with this podcast. Seven o'clock. I need to go. We need to crack on. I was going to ask what your tipple was, Harry. Oh, I've got it's lovely weather in the UK. I've got a little rosé on the go. So, thank you.

I have to roll after this. Excellent choice. Excellent choice. Has the Rapper roll. Has their own brand apparel, the best kind. Oh, God. Right. Coming up on today's episode, we are going to be talking very shortly

about the possibility of Carlos Seine Senior running against Mohammed Ben Sully and for the role of FIA president later in the year. But we're going to start today's episode by looking at the top of the Constructors Championship, which is currently occupied by McLaren, and quite comfortably so. won five of the first six races this season. They're sat on 246 points. Red Bull, so far, the only team to take a race win away from them. They're sat on 105 points. Ferrari, the only team to take a sprint win away from them. They're sat on 94 points. And weirdly enough, Mercedes, who haven't done either of those things, are actually the closest team to them in second on 141.

But point being, all of them over 100 points back. At this point in the season, Sam, the answer could well be none of them, but if we are going to, we're going to be optimistic and say this will be a championship fight at one point or another, in which case, who would be your pick to be the best of those three to challenge McLaren?

I can't believe they've managed to make it to the front of this pile after years of bouncing as Sir Lewis Hamilton winging over the radio, but Mercedes had built a really solid car. It doesn't bounce anymore. George Russell and Oh, Little Kimi and Dongerli, also goes to the man who doesn't break.

They are a really great partnership. And whilst they are seemingly never outright fast-ist, because there are two of them doing a very solid job and they're able to always be there, the burglar is Harry E, likes to call George Russell and that little Italian wizard, I'll be fighting for those points regularly every single race. They're on a podium or their fourth and fifth all the time. They will seemingly chunk away at what the others can't do. If Red Bull had two matches, just happens, well, then the world would be Red Bulls and the

universe would all be about having wings. And I'm sure they win absolutely everything in eternity. But they don't have two Max for stappings. They have a Max for Stapping and a second seat that can never be successful. And of course, you've got the likes of Ferrari who, if you remember it, decided to give team orders by not telling half the team what the orders are. So that also doesn't equate to a very good race result. Mercedes seemed to be able to do nothing the best, but because they do it all right everywhere,

they're the closest that they could be to McLaren. It could be a bigger freebie for McLaren if they tried realistically. Everyone else can seemingly want to fall over their own feet. But at least Mercedes has got some consistency. They're seemingly putting some good results. And they are starting to separate themselves from the rest of that top four, I think, with the consistency of both those drivers. So Mercedes would be my immediate pick for who can challenge McLaren, if anyone realistically.

Harry, would you agree with Sam of those three teams, Mercedes is the best position to go and challenge McLaren? I think so. It was just unbelievable to say. I also, by the way, Sam, I feel like that description describes us as a podcast, like, just very... Massively. Down the middle. Can't do anything really well, but consistently okay. How are we down the middle?

We're biased towards and against every driver and team on the pitch. Well, that's exactly down the middle. That's perfect. No, it's not down the middle. We are biased in all directions. We are not reasonable. It's not frustrating at all. No, this is a hot Sunday afternoon.

Yeah, I look, Mercedes, weirdly, I think their consistency is the thing that's going to help us here. You'd say maybe ultimate lap time-wise, you'd say Red Bull. But to be honest, I'm not really sure that's Red Bull. I think it's more Max Verstapp on the team doing that. So, yeah, and Ferrari just a shambles most of the time. So I still believe there is something in that Ferrari, but whether we're ever going to see it this year remains to be seen. I'm leading towards doubt on that one. So, yeah, Mercedes seems to be.

Yeah, exactly. Mercedes seemed to be the challenges. But like you said, Sam, it's not like they're going to get them on ultimate pace. I think Mercedes are going to be there just on consistency. It's not going to be a huge challenge. So, like you said, you don't want to call it an open goal because everything can have, you know, anything can happen in F1. But it's certainly served up on a plate for McCorm.

Claren at the moment. And I mean, they're certainly utilizing it with the results are getting. But there's no real clear ultimate challenger. You just have to say the Mercedes are the closest, but it's almost by default by being consistent and not really super fast. I mean, Russell's putting in some good performances. Antonelli's doing a good job as well. Obviously, the pole or the sprint pole in Miami. But yeah, by just being average, the default, the next challenger, which is just a bad reflection on Ferrari and Red Bull right now. despite everything, and I can't believe I'm saying this, my pick is Ferrari, because you're a fool, you're a fool. To be clear, I'm not saying this is likely or probable, but I think regardless of which of the three teams you pick, they all need a dramatic turnaround.

Like Mercedes need a marginally less dramatic turnaround, but they're all over 100 points back. None of them are close. So I think I'm looking for which of those teams could, and I'm saying could rather than will, could have a dramatic turnaround. And we know fundamentally, and it's a weird thing to say, but Ferrari has the most fundamental flaw, which is that, ironically, they can't run their car close to the floor. And if they're able to fix that, again, it's a big if, that's the thing out of all three teams that I could see

bringing anyone closer to McLaren. Now, they've already got a massive deficit, and I think we're all in a position that McLaren, And if they keep this up, it's going to be very difficult for anyone to catch them. But I think based on what we saw at the Chinese GP and specifically in the sprint race, using Harry's line, there's something in there. There's something there. Chances are they're not going to unlock it.

But if there's any of those three teams that I think could make a dramatic leap, I think it is Ferrari. As good as Mercedes have been to this point, if they just keep up, up what they're doing, keep being consistent, they aren't going to get there. They still need to unlock pace in the car that they are yet to show. You could argue in qualifying, they showed a bit more in Miami. I know George Russell finished second in Bahrain, but they are still a long way back in most Grand Prix. Like George Russell, for example, in Miami, finishes third. Great result. He's 37 seconds back. It's a dramatic turnaround that all three of these teams need. And

If I'm looking for the quote unquote easiest fix, I think it currently belongs at Ferrari. Again, I'm not predicting it. I'm not saying it's likely. But if there's one team out of the three that could make that leap, I think it might be Ferrari. Sam, in terms of Red Bull, obviously hasn't been the pick for any of us. What should give them optimism and what should not give them optimism?

I right clearly, I think it's the same thing. I think it's, again, as we've mentioned, his game endlessly, Max Verstappen can drive that car at a level that can make it competitive with McLaren. Not at every Grand Prix, we saw at Miami that no matter what he tried, defensive being, you know, pushing him around the track or not, he could not get the speed up to match what McClara did. But, you know, five out of the sixth Grand Prix, he's been there or thereabouts with McLaren.

Of course, he's only got one race victory, but so is Landon Norris. So it's not like he's disastrously behind in that sense. The ironic thing here is, of course, that the biggest weakness that Red Bull have is that the entire team is built around Max Verstappen, and the car is so unique in its handling, in its incredibly over-serie creation, the way it's been built up, that the way that Max Verstappen drives it on a knife edge is so hard to attain for any secondary driver, that they essentially can't compete on both fronts. And this is being Red Bull's major problem. Since like 2018, since Daniel Ricardo left, essentially was the last time they were actually able to compete on.

on both fronts. And even before they had the kind of Daniel Riccardo and Max Verstappen combination, when you had Weber and Vettel, even Weber many times was struggling to be at the level of Vetter wasn't actually back up. So, Aski, Vetter, of course, we had the one year that was going well for Weber, where we got the famous multi-21 Seb, and we had those very juicy and interesting team radios and moments on track.

But famously, Red Bull have always been very one-driver-orientated, and that has caused them to struggle, and it's causing them to struggle again. So if they could make a mini Max Verstappen or clone Max Verstappen, then they would immediately be right up there with McLaren. I have no doubt that they would be scoring very, very close to what McLaren are able to do outright.

That is not possible, unfortunately, for the world. And they are going to need to adapt to their car and their build and their focus to ensure that you can get 98% out of Max Verstappan, which is still better than pretty much anyone on the grid right now. But you can also get 85, 90%, out of a very good driver in the second seat. So while Max is winning, that driver is third or fourth on a very regular basis.

That's where Red Bull needs to sit. Yuki Snow is a great driver, but he's not able to master it. Sergeo Perez was a very solid midfield driver. We've always given him credit, but he wasn't able to grasp that car in Red Bull. Lawson didn't even get a sniff of a chance to really have a go there anyway. And we've seen what happens with the previous drivers before that. So with Red Bull, it's all about building a car that has compromise,

that is able to be used to a very strong degree by both sides of the garage. Quick note to Helmut Marco, who is probably listening. Don't take too much inspiration from Sam's idea for cloning Vastappen or a mini Vastappen. She is just over a week old. You cannot take her yet. She's not ready. I never know. You know that meme of like the guy with the guy behind him.

He's reaching out to grab the, is it the ball or something like that? that that is Max Verstappen slash partner reaching out to get their child, and yet Helmut Marco is behind them, putting away from the child. No, it is mine, my precious. Hope helmet. Stop it. We've not really, not as much to discuss, but that child has got the genes of Nelson Peky and Max Verstappen in it.

Yeah, I think Christian Hall has compared it to... Danny Kavir. The best of the three. I think Horger compared Lily to a horse. Well, that's a normal thing to do. Within the first week of your life, in the first week of your life, you're like a horse.

And I extend that to any week of any life that you shouldn't compare people to horses. Can you imagine being the PR person for just people in Red Bull? Must be an absolute freaking nightmare. A week in, week out. They said, what again? What this?

A horse? What? They managed to hurt people. They're like, oh, they'll advertise for livery designers. And then they'll just move them straight into PR. Yeah. We actually keep it the same guys. So off you go.

Well, that was perfectly normal. Yeah, I think from Red Bull's perspective, I know they don't have Adrian Newey, who, let's be honest, wasn't that influential when it came to car design at Red Bull. they did produce a car that was very good a year ago. So it's not that long in the past that they have been able to develop a great car. I mean, Max Verstappen is obviously the reason that you would be most optimistic if you're a Red Bull fan. I've started a new count, which is headache count. So we've got Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari.

How many headaches are each driver giving McLaren this season? The numbers aren't great. I would say George Russell has given one headache, which was, Bahrain. Antonelli, Lecler, and Hamilton, at least in main races, zero each. Vestappen has given McLaren a headache four times this year. We had him finish within one second of the win at Melbourne. We saw him in Japan, obviously, win the Grand Prix. Saudi Arabia, I know he had the penalty coming, but he still led that race. And Miami, he was at least a factor with both McLaren drivers having to get by him. So he is, kind of.

constantly being more of a fawn in the side of the McLarence than anyone else quite comfortably at this stage. But I just can't, I can't see this happening. I know I said it a few weeks ago. Then winning the Constructors' Championship to me is just not even a discussion. At the moment, the second seat, which is obviously Lawson for the first two races, Sonoda for the last four, the second seat is currently contributing one point per race. Like, at that rate, Vastappen will need over.

875 points this season, I think, to win the championship. Because as I said, a few weeks ago, McLaren are on course for 900 right now. And if you're doing the maths, folks, that's 35 race wins. Even in today's F1 calendar, that ain't doable. Well, if anyone could do it, I fear it might be max. Yeah, maybe he's trying to get... Go with the Nürberg ring. Extra points of the Nürberg ring.

Yeah, it'll probably pop off to the Indy 500 for a bit as well. It'll go. That wasn't Max for Stappen, though, to be fair at the Nourberg. agreeing that was someone else in time. That's very true. Frant-Herman. Who thought me? Franks, pay up Franks.

Good job, Franks. Franks-D-D-D-D-D-D-A. Harry, is there a world where Red Bull can finish second this season? Like, can you see that happening? I can see it. Yeah, I think it would take some Mercedes inconsistencies to creep in. And look, going by the last few years, that could happen. Mercedes have been known to be inconsistent over the last few years.

I think that might be unlikely. If Red Bull can unlock just a little bit more from this car, given what Vestappen is able to do with it now, in a car we don't feel is brilliant. I mean, it's still good, still a good car, but it's not a brilliant car, and you know, look at the relative results of Sonoda and obviously Leon before,

they've lost it beforehand. But they can unlock a little bit more versus McLaren. then Vastappan is that headache counter you've got Ben is going to start going up a lot more and McLaren are going to get more headaches so I think that that is a possibility because if if Red Bull can turn it around and you know they're the previous Constructors champions for the past four years you'd say they they could um sorry not the last four years before that sorry McLaren um but yeah I'd had to to guess so they could unlock a little bit more from this car.

It may well be very much centered around Max just happened, but at this point, it probably makes sense to. So, yeah, they could get in the next. I just think it would take a bit of a bit of a drop-off from Mercedes and also some improvements from Red Bull. But like all of these teams,

it's the balance now of reward this year and risk of not getting next year right and how much that they want to invest in it. So Red Bull are on a tricky spot, because I think they need to have some performance to make Verstappen stay. Yeah. But also not sacrifice next year

because if next year is bad then he's definitely not staying. So that's a real rock and a hard play situation for Red Bull. So sorry, guys. Then on your headache counter, how many have McLaren given themselves? Oh, I lost count.

Yes, that makes sense now. Yeah, but it's probably more than all of the other drivers combined. Yeah, I think with Red Bull and versus Mercedes, I guess, and looking at that second place in the championship. It is the consistency that's currently, and not just within the drivers,

but track to track, speaking to what you really said, Sam, about how Mercedes have not necessarily been the best enemy this year, but they've turned up everywhere and been all right. Red Bull were very good in Jeddah. They were very good at Suzuki. They were not very good at Bahrain. They weren't very good last time out in Miami.

If they start to find some consistency, then maybe they can make an attack on second place. Okay, let's take a short break. On the other side, we're going to get into some rumors that Carlos Sines Sr. is considering a run for FI. President. Welcome back, everyone. Before we get into the news about Carlos Sines,

I love late breaking. How can I find more content from late breaking, Sam? Where do I go? What do I do? I think it's found yourself driving down the motorway back. All the time. Yeah, I've seen you on there. And you think, oh, What are those lights in the distance?

What's that exit I could have pull off to? God, it looks gorgeous down there. I'm just going to have to take a little left. Columbton services? Big of Columbton. In the top ten of the ratings. If you pass Columbton services, because of course, Patriot City is right next to Columbian service

of being the golden glow in the distance. That's why again. I thought that was with McDonald's. Well, many have called it the golden arches of content. It's a place where all wonder happens if you want comedy, if you want great debate with friends, all at the low, low cost of only nine pounds a month. And that's your lucky bill throwing in, that's your parking sorted.

That's all renting accommodation. Come on down. Come on down. Have a great time in Patreon City. The fees are low, but the joy. The joy is high. So have a little click on the link in the description. Fill out your registration form.

Move on in. Come on down. How long before? Fee is low. Do you know, I think people, you know, marketers listen into this and go, they are excellent at selling themselves. Because I don't think...

You're lying. Yeah. I've got an answer for you, Harry. No. It can't be long, by the way, before someone's done a parody of Patreon City to the tune of Paradise City, right? Take me down to the Patreon City

where the content is good. The cost is low and the joy is high. And you get free electricity. Free electricity. Yeah, okay. You have to really stretch out those killables. That doesn't scan that well, but sure, we'll go with it. We'll work on that one.

Good. Great. Another fantastic plug from Labour King. Let's move on to Carlos Seine Senior, considering a run for FIA president against Mohamed Ben Suleem, with support from key motorsport figures, encouraging him. to stand in the upcoming election on 12th of December in Tashkent.

Speaking to Autosport, the two-time World Rally Champion said he is currently in the process of figuring out how much support I will get from the community of motorsport. This possibility of being president has been in my mind for some time now. I'm confident I can do a good job and put together an excellent team to give back to the sport part of what it is given to me. Signs added, everyone has his own way of running an organisation. I only know one way to do things, which is professionally, seriously. and straightforward.

I truly think I can make that relationship between the FIA and stakeholders much smoother and stronger. I would like to see the future of the FIA as an entity that is really appreciated and respected by everybody. Harry, would he make a good president? I think from a top line,

yes, because he's not nuts. So, I think it's a good point. Alternatives are rare to Mohammed bin Sennemu. But, Yeah, look, I genuinely do think Carlos Sinez, Sr. could make a good FIA president. The problem is, Ben Silliam on paper before he became the president, you'd say pretty good cause to say he was going to be all right, given his experience in the world of, you know, world of rally. It's obviously not turned out like this.

I think where, you know, Carlisle Sinez, senior's offering differs is that. He has been involved with F1 for quite some time now, you know, very much in the background. But even before his son, Carlos Sines Jr., started, he was still sort of in the background of F1. Obviously, big connections to Alonzo and, you know, Spanish drivers. But I think he would do a good job at bridging the gap somewhat. I guess my only concern slightly lies in his son currently races in F1, not to say that he would be, there'd be anything, you know. Is that a big concern?

I don't think it's a massive concern, but it, but it, because how, how should it be and how could it be? Because what could he do that would directly benefit his son in like a day-to-day scenario Formula One? So I don't think there's any realistic chance of that's an issue. I think you just, people will, all ask the questions. I mean, and when I say people, it's probably, people. Yeah, people from Twitter.

It's the optics. Yeah. Correct. Because it'll become rather than Ferrari International. assistance will be philems international systems. That's another smooth one. So, yeah, I think the optics of that I just slightly could be seen slightly off, but I genuinely don't think that should make any difference.

And he'd be he'd be a good candidate. He has been around the world of motorsport. And let's not forget, this isn't just F1. Yeah, FIA president for all FIA, you know, motorsports. And that includes many of them, you know, World Endurance, Formulare, etc. So I think you'd be a really solid choice. And given that the worst relationship between the FIA and its sports at the moment is between the FIA and F1, then you'd have to say that I think Carlos Sons Senior could do could do a good job of starting to rebuild that relationship. Because currently it's in tatters.

On the point of Carlos Sines Jr. and how that would work, just another point to add in there, Carla Sines Jr., of. course this year stepped up to be alongside George Russell on the Grand Prix Drivers Association as a representative. So that would be relatively interesting. Sam, would he make a good president? Carlos Slinger has always come across as quite a serious individual. You don't see him mucking about being a silly bugger, do you when he's out and about? Oh, silly bugger signs. Yeah. Yeah, and famously as he's known. In terms of the family relation to obviously his son, I don't think that's a problem. We've seen it with Toto Wolf and Susie Wolf.

Ironically, Susie Wolfe is taking the FIA to the courts, as they're being sued by her for previous issues with Mohammed Bugsilum. So that's going well. And my standards for FIA presidents at the moment are really quite low. They're really on the ground right now. NBS has done such a terrible job and has managed to have some kind of controversy against him at least one a quarter, a good one or two, a quarter. And that's a lot for a president that I am really searching for someone who could just be mundane and do an acceptably plausible job right now.

So Carlos Syk Senior, who is a relatively calm but serious man. He's got a lot of experience, of course, in Rally. He did well in Daccar. And I do think that's important that you are not just Formula One centric. You've got Formula One focus because, as you mentioned, there are already many classes that are included by Formula One. and that is Formula One, all of its junior categories. That's the endurance championship. That's the World Grandi Championship.

That's World Grandi Championship. Formula E is a part of it as well. So there is so many different categories that are all encompassed by the FIA, many of that I haven't mentioned as well. But you do need to have a wider scope of understanding of how the politics of this might work, how things might be affected. We just need a change in person, out, and a change in leadership,

and a different scope on who we're looking to for the direction of these sports. because we have been mired in controversy, whether that be going to court with the US government over anti-competition laws or if we're manipulating race results such as it was in Saudi Arabia or if we're banging swearing or if we're talking about different drivers doing things they shouldn't be doing because of their race or if women should be a part of things. You know, every single one of these things on their own would be bad for a single leader of any organisation, but he's had all of them in the space of a few years. So if Carlos Sitesinger can come in and just not have one of those allegations put against him,

that's a pretty good starting place for me. I'd be pretty happy with that start, as reaching the bare minimum of normal. So yeah, for that right now, I'm okay with him doing it. He does have a very intriguing trait does Carlos Sainz Sr., which is he's not Mohamed Ben Sulean. I'll absolutely grant you that. And I'm very much in favour of him not being Mohamed Ben Sulean.

it's interesting because both of them come from that rally background. But yeah, he is highly experienced within the world of motorsport, like 45 years pretty much since he started rallying in 1980. So he's had extreme team ownership as well. So he has had a lot of experience. Harry, you mentioned what he's done in the background of F1, which kind of leads me on to the one concern, which is, I don't know a great deal about Carlos Sines,

senior's administrative background, like administrative political background, or even if there is much there. Compare this to Jean-Tott, who obviously was president for a long time, and he became president in 2009. Jean-Tot retired from racing in 1981. He had 28 years of essentially being in roles,

such as he was the director of Persia or whatever the role was at Persho. He then, of course, spends a lot of time at Ferrari, including later becoming CEO. And he even does a little bit with the FIA in the year coming up to when he was elected president. So he had a lot of time, a lot of experience interacting with different series, different people all over the world of motorsport. And he was very well qualified when he got there in 2009 and was elected. I don't think we can say the same thing about Carlos Sines, which makes me think, I'm not saying he'll be a good or bad president, but it makes me think there will be other people out there which who will argue they are more qualified

for this because it would be really easy for all of us to just say that candidate is not Mohamed Ben Suleim, therefore you get the job. I don't think that should be the bar. I think we should aim higher. Whoever should be FIA president next should not be slightly better than Muhammad Ben Sulean. They should be like 25 times better than what we've had over the last four years. and there might well be others that you've already mentioned Susie Wolfe, I don't think she's going to run. But even like Susie Wolf, you could argue with her experience with Formula One Academy

and Formula E team ownership as well, she might have more of a claim of experience than Carlos Seinf does even with the difference in their age. And Alex Verts is another, I've got no idea whether he'd want to do it, but he's another one who I would absolutely look to his experience and say, that's a resume that could run. Like he has had a lot to do with road safety,

he's had a lot to do with circuit design. So the Saudi Arabian GP, when we move, that track was, I believe, designed by Alex Verst. He's been head of the chairman of the Grand Prix Drivers Association for a very long time now. So I think there are, and that's just two people, of course, I think there are plenty of others that might well claim, but they've got a bit more of a chance of doing something with the role.

But again, my knowledge of what, Sines has done an official capacity over the last 20 years or so is a little bit limited. I see the point you're making, Ben, but I guess the very simple argument against that is, if you don't buy a ticket, you can't win the competition. If they're not going to bother entering, I can't bother talking about them, unfortunately. There's up to them to communicate themselves and put themselves forward, and Carla Sikes Senior is doing just that. There's no point me raving, you know, wax lyrical about someone if they're not going to ever be

interesting actually doing the job. So I think you're right. probably are better people to do that job. There's probably better people to host this podcast, us three right now. But they're not putting themselves forward and therefore it is left to us three Muppets. They may be, but we're just not listening.

Well, I don't listen to anyone really, so that makes sense. Could he beat Mohammed Ben Silliam, Sam? That's a very different question. I think Mohammed Ben Sillium has done, back up, there's only time I'm going to say this, a very good job at cultivating the current staff left

in the FIA and the positions that they're sitting. And it's a bit of a dictatorship from the outside perspective of, you know, fight against Beng Sillium at your peril, and you will no longer have a job as part of the FIA, which is, of course, a very esteemed place to be if you're interested in motorsport. And I think because of that, so many people who are currently inside the organisation are either absolutely against Ben Sillium

and will go for any option possible, and therefore we'll probably sit in the camp of Carlos Sight Senior should no one else decide to put their hand up for the job. or they will be so extensively on Ben Silliam's side that they like where this direction is going and they fully agree with his viewpoints and his beliefs that he could absolutely wipe the floor of any competition that walks in the door.

And this happens when you get, this is the only word I could think of, so I do apologise, but an extremist who is at the head of an organisation. And I do believe that Ben Sillium is at the very extreme end of his way of governance and the way that he presents ideas and the way he approaches the rule set.

And that tends to also appeal to others who are very strongly minded about certain issues and topics. So if he puts those people in the right place, there's every chance that he could seem role pretty much anyone who wants to nominate themselves up against him. Harry, can he win? I think given, yeah, I think all of what Sam were saying about Mohammed Ben Sidim is correct, but given the descent of some members of the FAA,

we've seen Dave Richards call him out. we've seen the man who I can't remember the name of who resigned the other day. But Reid. Yes, Robert Reed. His resignation, that's come very recently. I think that in itself points to unhappiness with the current regime, the current role of the FIA. So I think support is not going to be easy for Carlos Sine Sr.

And I, you know, and you said this in his quote, Ben, that he's sort of, he's sort of testing the water a little bit with this. He's not fully announced that he's just sort of said, what I might do was everyone think about it. So it remains to be seen what people's reaction is to that. But I think given that there has, there have been people that have already called Muhammad Ben Sadium out and are unhappy with the current, current,

in your current way that things are going, give see, Carlos Sons a chance. I think a genuine chance of winning this. But I don't think it's going to be an easy, it's not going to be as easy as everyone just decides to go for Carlos Science now because it's nothing is going to be that easy it's Ben's William's been in charge for a few years now he's got his he's got um he's sort of his claws on on the FAA so and he's not going to want to give it up given what we've seen from him so um yeah I think there is possibility I just it's

not want to be an easy an easy on yeah it's it won't be easy um there there is potential that he could Like he's a big enough name, he's got enough credibility that you could easily see big-time motorsball organizations across the world go towards Carlos Sines and vote for him. I think what Mohamed Ben Sulean will be hoping for is that similar to what I mentioned a moment ago, other names start to appear, whoever that might be. I think one concerted effort to take down Maham bin Sulean, regardless of who it is, whether it's Carlos Salyam will be someone else, that will make Mahamabenzulian far more worried than if you have like, let's say,

Sines is obviously said he might be interested. If someone else next month says, actually, I'm interested as well. And then the following month we get someone else. If it's not a concerted effort at that point, it might be tricky. Because what Mohammed Ben Silliam will be really worried about is if Carlos Sines has obviously said that he might run. And then pretty much everyone else within that pool of those that could run or go, yeah, I'm not going to run.

Carlos Sines, I'm going to support him. Because then that's when the momentum starts to really carry. It is difficult to overturn a sitting president in the FIA, even with the disastrous reign that Mohammed Ben Suleim has overcome because every single nation or every single organization has one vote and he has cornered a lot of support. You're going to have to take that away from him, whether it comes from signs or whether it comes from someone else.

oddly similar to electing a new Pope. Yeah. In fact, it's exactly the same. I cannot wait to see the petrol coloured smoke emerge from the chimneys of the FIA. It's actually a Ferrari engine that's gone boom. Alping, I hope it's their new project. Let's take our second break at this point. On the other side, we've got chat about F1 considering raising the speed limit in pit lines.

Back everyone. F1 is currently considering raising the speed limit in pit lanes at certain Grand Prix this season. So the theory is teams taking less time during pit stops could prompt teams to consider multiple pit stops as more viable as it is than it is right now. The limit is 80 kilometres an hour except at four Grand Prix. That's Melbourne, Monaco, Zambor and Singapore. Of course, Melbourne has already happened this year. The FIA has been clear that Monaco, there's nothing they can do. about the 60 kilometre an hour limit that they have there.

But there is a chance that both Zambor and Singapore go up to 80 to join the rest of the tracks if they make some small changes. Harry, could this work? Do you think that this would prompt some additional pit stops from teams? I have my doubts about this because you're not gaining that much time. I don't think the gain in speed here. it's 20 kilometers an hour. I mean, we previously,

I think that this 60 kilometers an hour has been in place for a few years, but before that it was 100, which is 60 miles an hour. And I don't think this jump back to 80 is actually going to make that much of a difference in terms of your pit stop time. No matter what teams do,

they never want to make a pit stop. If everyone teams could do a race without pitting, they always would, because it eliminates all the risk. It gets rid of the fact that you'd want to come into the pits and lose time. They'd rather just leave the cars out on track for 60 laps and let them get on with it. So I don't think this is going to make a huge, huge amount of difference, just given that it's not that bigger jump in speed.

I mean, I don't know if they've worked out of the overall timers, but I'm imagining it's only a second or two. It can't be that much more. But, yeah, I just, I'm doubt. helpful. My other concern is I just don't, I don't really like this as a, as a concept because it's asking for trouble. And again, I know it's not a massive jump in speed, but even now when the car's coming to, I mean, well, exactly. And I was thinking about this earlier, a few years ago when, when Bottas managed to spin in the pit lane in Austria, I think it's a

practice session, that there's an angle, that like office style camera angle where he's flying past sideways. So then even now, it's going pretty quickly that an F-1 car in a pit lane. Bumping it up by 20 kilometers an hour, as I say, isn't a massive amount. But it's just adding extra risk for no real massive reason that I can, I can, you know, the justification doesn't seem enough for me. So, yeah, I don't know this idea. Yeah, I'm doubtful.

X'd out again. X'd out second time on this episode. I think the benefit might be a little bit more than a second. I was trying to make some estimates and they came out a little bit more than one second, but equally it's not going to save that much time. And the two circuits that we're talking about here, Zanvort and Singapore, track position is so valuable at both of them, particularly Zambort.

I know Singapore has had some changes in recent years to make overtaking a little easier, but neither of them you would point out and say, overtaking can happen on that circuit and multiple stops becomes more plausible. I mean, a Zamvort, for example, you remember the race we had last year where Lando Norris won by Country Mile. Piastri, same machinery, could not get by Charles LeCler, I think it was for third place at the time. If you had given him the option to stop again, he wouldn't have taken it. If you'd have given him the option and said, well, actually, now it will take you three seconds less to make that stop. He still wouldn't have taken it.

Trab position is so important. I don't think it's going to really benefit them in Zambor. I don't really think it will benefit in Singapore either. And fundamentally, this is a safety issue. It's not something that can just be tweaked with here and there to try and make the racing more entertaining. It is fundamentally a safety thing. Sam, your thoughts?

It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Thai tactic, basically. It is so fundamentally pointless, so small and insignificant. as a serious problem we have in Formula One, you're still going to hit a disaster at the end of it. You're really going to run someone over at 20 kilometers hour more than is currently approaching in the pit lane. And you see the impact that these pit guys take when they are on the jacks or something like that.

We get so close to so many disasters throughout the whole season. You saw the crash in Miami that happened, of course. You see we've had engineeringers have their legs run over for it coming out in the pit lane. It is an unsafe place to be at the, absolute best of times. Why do you think that 20 kilometres and out a cup of the circuits, we're suddenly going to revolutionise racing? We'll suddenly have strategic masterclasses. The problem isn't the pit lane. The problem are the tyres. How many times do we have to go on

and go on about how the tyres all fade off too slowly and the ability to sit there and just push through poor tire wear where you can't be overtaken is far more advantageous than sticking a brand new pair of boots and absolutely careering past other cars that are trying to hold off others at three, four, five seconds a lack. You see it in Monaco, when Daniel Riccada remember had that problem in his engine, he was sat at the front of the track. He was going six or seven seconds a lap slower than was the expecting average lap time. But no one could get past him because the cars are too big and the tyres that you sacrifice too much by stopping anyway. So having a slightly or marginally faster pit lane, it's just not worth the safety issues that it's going

to cause. People's lives genuinely are very important if you hadn't noticed. So putting them at risk for one to two seconds getting a lap is not worth it in my opinion. It's a terrible idea, bad decision. Work on the car size. Work on what the ties are able to do. In terms of the pit lane speed limit, it was first introduced in practice sessions, I think in 1993.

But in terms of races, it was actually introduced after the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, which, of course, that weekend is very famously remembered even now for the deaths of Roland Ratzenberger and Ed Sennar. And of course, we just had the anniversary of it very recently. And of course, whenever anyone talks about that race, those are the two things that people are going to remember. But within the race, the restarted race that happened, there was an incident where McKelle-Alboretto was coming down the pit lane. One of his tires was loose. Goes down the pits. I think injures a couple of the Ferrari and Lotus mechanics, and a couple of them were hospitalized,

and that's where the speed limit came from. At that point, it was just 120 kilometers an hour. It was then, as you mentioned, Harry, it was reduced to 100, and then more recently than that, it's been reduced to 80. There's a reason that the reductions happen from 120 to 100, and then from 100 to 80. You can't just put it back up to 100 for the sake of good racing, because that just completely nullifies the safety reason that you brought it down to begin with. And I agree with you, Sam,

that I just don't think it would have too much of an impact anyway. Harry, Sam brought up the point on tyres, which I guess is the other thing that we can look at here, an idea that's somewhat been floated and hasn't been used for quite a few years at this point, is not necessarily bringing the same row of tire compounds that we have. So quite frequently, Miami is an example. We'll get C3, C4, C5 as the softest,

tire. There was a time where occasionally Pirelli would leave a gap in those compounds. Would you like to see a return of that? Would that make any impact? Yes. 100% yes.

I think there's more work to be done than just that. But some gaps between these ties because we get to a point now in the weekends, certainly this year it feels like as well, where they're like, they get to the race are like,

oh, I don't know whether we want to use the hard ties and it turns out to be a garbage tire and no one wants to use them. So you might as well just leave them in the Pirelli factory. They are so pointless. So yes, I would be a massive, massive ad for cut for this. I think gaps between all of them that would be good, even if it's just one between.

Something that really differentiates these tyres and gives us a bit more, you know, a bit of variety. You mentioned this earlier, Sam, about, you know, being able to just push through tyres. where when they the phrase are they've gone through the graining phase nothing depresses me more than when they say that and it's because it's at that point you're like well they can just pick up the pace again nothing's going to change i hate that that's awful so i really want i really want even if it's not 2012 style 2011 style priority ties we need something that means these ties drop off at some point not just you get a bit of graining and then you like can nurse your way through it

and then you're fine again that's just boring So some variety in the performance of these ties definitely. I'd mandated it. They always have to have a gap. No matter where you're on the scale, we're always try and have a gap. So that there is some difference between, you know,

the soft tire versus the hard tires is actually quite a difference. And you could run the hard tire for a long time or you could run your softer tires and have to make more pit stops. That's literally what we want to see more variety in strategy. So please, Pirelli, I know you're listening or F1. I know you're listening as well. Please do this.

I was having a look at the last time that we had a gap in the compounds. And as far as I could tell, the last time it was the 22 Australian GP. Because I think fundamentally it's a good idea, but it still depends on the tyres and what the gaps are. Because when we went to Australia, that time we brought the C2, C3 and C5. The C5 was not used by anyone, apart from on the very last lap.

It was the same race where Alex Alwood basically did the whole race came in on the last lap for the C5 tire. No one else touched it. So it was a one stop from C2 to C3 or vice versa. So introducing that idea by itself, I don't think is going to solve things. I think the bigger issue is fundamentally the tires. They're being built exactly how F1 are asking them to be built. So I'm not blaming Pirelli for this.

the issue comes from F1 for not putting together the spec better to make sure that we do have some tire wear. Because right now, last two races, Miami and Jeddah, what have we seen? We've seen softer tires brought to these two races than what we had last year. What happens? Do we get more stops? No, we just get more management. Instead of driving to this delta, they shift the delta so the tires will still last. And there was really no problems in both of those races.

and I worry with the way the tires are built right now, even introducing gaps or softer tires, we're just going to get the same thing over and over again. I think fundamentally the bigger issue is dirty air and these cars. Tires, I'm not saying there's no issue, but I think dirty air is the bigger issue right now that needs to be tackled in this new regs. Bring back punches.

That's what I say. Silverstone. We were talking about before we started on air today, Silverstone 2020, and we punches you got through that Grand Prix. and it ended with someone on a puncture. It was one of the most exciting Grand Prix that you can remember. I think drivers should be punished

for taking tyres too far. I think you should know that you are at risk and it gets worse and worse and worse and you will get a puncture. There was a last time you saw someone get a puncture through actual just tire wear in Formula One. What it, Silverstone, 2020? That's how long ago it feels. There should be a cost.

You should have to pay a price for sitting on a set of tyres for 56 or 57 laps. The soft tire should be able to go for, you know, 10 laps, 12 laps, but be four or five seconds a lap faster. The medium tie should be going to go for 20 laps but only be two seconds a lap faster. And the hard tie,

you should be able to do a one step on it, but you could be at most five or six seconds a lap slower and therefore it might be too much. You might have to make up the difference in terms of consistency. There has to be a cost for being boring. That is what I'm saying. Make boring expensive. Yes.

Make exciting great again. Sam's campaign slogan. I absolutely love it. Mega. I think it works. Stay a final. Whoa. Mega's close to, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Got be careful there. It's a mega mind is what you're worried about, Ben. That's exactly what I'm worried about. I'm going to make blue hats with mega on them. Got a new superhero in mind and it's Maga Mind. Let's take a break, shall we?

On the other side, we've got a top five list. Welcome back, everyone. To close out today's show, we've got a top five list. And today's top five list is biggest what-if seasons in F-1 history. So there's a few different ways we could go with this. But essentially, seasons for drivers or teams that are what-ifs. What could have been Sam? Do you want to kick us off?

What's number five on your list? I'll happily kick us off. And I still fear I might have got this entirely wrong by what this means. Folks are just firm. I can't wait for this. I still had to ask, what do we mean by what ifs? You explained it to me. I said I understood.

And then I quickly thought, I don't understand. So that's gone well. So my first what if is, what if Felipe Massa won the 2008 world title instead of Lewis Hamilton. So he'd be a world champion. would he go on to then want to be recruited by Mercedes with that relationship still form? Would he have any titles in future?

With Massa end up being a potential hire for someone else or would he just succumbed to the demise of Ferrari that we saw in that kind of late 2000s early teams period that Ferrari happened? I just think that was such a pivotal season for Lewis Hamilton that if he didn't win that title, what could have changed in the future? I think that's a fair way. It's so weird to think.

that the 2008 Brazilian GP was his last win. Yeah. Sorry, spoilers. Spoilers from the history. Yes. Number five on my list, I've got Vettel slash Ferrari from 2018. It was at this point 10 years without a title for the Ferrari team. And we've had seven since Ferrari, so well done.

This should have been the one. They were relatively close in 2017, but this really should have been the one. It was quite an open season, particularly in the first half of the season. You forget, like, Ricardo had a couple of wins early on, and Vastappen won Austria as well. And, of course, Mercedes and Ferrari were vying for wins too. But Vetter had done a really good job to win back to back to start the year and then a race that we're going to be looking at,

historic race review very soon, the 2018 British GP. He does a very good job there. No spoilers, but he does quite well. that leaves like halfway through the season. He is eight points clear in the driver's championship and Ferrari are 20 clear in the constructors. We then get to the German Grand Prix. Oh, Hamilton starts 14th.

Vettel starts from pole and is leading. And that's a very pivotal event. Vettel crashes out. Hamilton goes on to win that race unexpectedly from 14th. And that's always seen as a really critical moment in that year's championship. And it was. But people forget like the next.

two races after that, Vessel finishes second in Hungary and then wins Belgium. Like, it wasn't the end. Like, we had two more races where he got himself somewhat back into contention. He was only 17 off Hamilton coming out of Belgium with eight races to go. But then the last eight races, Hamilton goes on this charge, wins six out of eight, and Vettel never holds the championship lead again. I feel like, of all the Ferrari misses, and there have been a lot of them, that might be the one that hurts them the most.

and maybe Vettel personally the most. Harry, what's number five on your list? I've gone for the same year, Sam, but different drivers. BMW and Robert Kiewitzer, who midway through the seat, well, yeah, I guess midway, they win the Canadian GP, the BMW that year. And I was thinking about this,

BMW as a constructor had only been around for that point for two years. They'd done 06, 07, this is the third year. I know it was a salable. team, but Salba before that, I weren't doing it, doing anything. They were, they were only as BMW, this is year three. And they've built an actually good car because I think Kibizu gets pole in Bahrain that year. Then he wins a Canadian GP and takes the championship lead. And then BMW go, nah, don't want to develop that car anymore.

I think, uh, I think we're going to focus on next year. Now, I understand the logic here because 2009 was a massive regulation change. And in terms of F1, it was the biggest overhaul for quite. some time. But just giving that one up after you're only, as I said, they're only year three into there being a constructor and they just decided not to do it. And the worst part about it is that they built an absolute toaster for 2009.

So they didn't do anything. When other teams also built a toaster. They had the chance to capitalize on McLaren and Ferrari not being very good. Yeah. And they still blew a toaster. Yeah. Even before they also went through the ring. I didn't they?

And all that money that they put in their BMW. could have had it all. They could have had it in 08, I think easily. If they'd carried on developing that car, and Robert Kubits, you know, pre-his accident was, who knows? I think there's multiple titles on it on the agenda for Kibitz potentially. So number one could well have been in 2008 because he was on it.

And as I say, he wins that race. And then BMW decided to just turn the taps off in terms of development on that car. And it all goes downhill. thought, well, never mind, I'll do it in 2009. No. All right, well, I'll do it in 2010. BMW decide they don't want to do F1 ever again. Great stuff. Thanks, BMW.

Thanks, Vietnam. Cheers, Mario Tyson, for nothing. For nothing. As well, like, what an, one era of emerging talent, like, Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, Cubits, like, it was big year. That was the last golden age. That was before we got the Cubits, not the Lecler, Nory, The run that we're in now, that was the last golden age.

What's number four on your list, Sam? What if Mercedes had stayed in Formula One after 1955 instead of the Nürberg ring disaster that took place? Go do some history research folks on the other disaster. They basically meant that they left all forms and motorsport, wherever they went. But historically, if Mercedes have committed fully to a motorsport class, whatever that might be, they usually are quite good at it.

and I do have a suspicion that they would rival, if not be beating Ferrari, for the most successful and dominant team in Formula One's history. And I do think that that would be kind of, you know, the butterfly wings that caused the hurricane on the other side of the world for Formula One. The amount of things that might shift throughout history, if the Senghis were to stay in 1956 and onwards, would they have given as much support to McClaring historically, for example, and that means would they have lost so many titles?

Would Sena have ever been at McLehrer? Orrott have ever been there. and there's so many elements of what Mercedes had been a part of, but they never led because they weren't ever the team that would have shifted maybe to their own success that actually meant that they could have gone on to, like I said, beat Ferrari in terms of the amount of titles that they currently have. It was a big decision, and I understand why they made it,

but I think big things could have happened for Mercedes had they stayed in the game. Number four on your list, Harry. I've gone for Nigel Mantle and Williams in 19, 1991 because I think Nigel Mancer could well have well, Nigel Manza probably could have been a three-time world champion, maybe a four. Yeah, 86, 87, 91, 92.

But in 91, that car, obviously, 1992 Williams was dominant. No one could touch it, especially with Mansell behind the wheel. 1991 was that car, but just a bit unreliable and also with some bad luck. Famously, Nigel Mansell, as he's about to celebrate a win in, Canada that year turns the car off as he puts his hand out the cockpit and loses that race.

But there are a few mishaps that year. I think there's a, there's a poor pit stop and maybe a sterile potentially that puts me out of the race or gets him disqualified or something. And then as they get to the Japan, which is penultimate round, he's not leading. I think Senna's leading the championship by this point. But Mansell falls off the road by himself and Gifts, Gives Center the championship. but yeah, I think there's probably a few what if so I met Nigel Mansell's career but that's probably the one where

Williams had the best car and never and never capitalised on it. It'd be like if Lewis Hamilton didn't win the 2020 World Championship and Max Verstappen did that sort of vibe like the Williams was far supreme but they just never made the most of it

so like I say there were probably a few for Mantle over his career but that's probably one that really should have really should have made him at least a two-time war champ and then he could have done the dance. You could have created the dance. Oh yeah, a new dance,

the Nigel Mansell dance. Just the moustache twill. I'll repeat. Number four on my list is Lewis Hamilton 2007. If he had won that championship, would it have been the most impressive feat

in the history of the sport? It's in the conversation, I think, to win it on your day. year. To win it on your debut it would have been ridiculous in its own right. To do it against two Ferrari drivers and your

two-time defending world champion as your teammate, that would have been, and it should have happened. Not only could it have happened, it really should have done. After he took that impressive win at Fuji that year, two races left, he is 12 points clear of the Lonzo, of course

only 10 points for a win in that season, and he's 17 clear of Kimi Rykenen. No matter what, happened with two races to go, he did not need another podium to wrap up the title. And obviously it goes horribly wrong at China where I think part of his on the team for leaving him out too long, but also he makes the era coming into the pits where he ends up beached. And then of course, Brazil happens as well. But Hamilton 2007, we haven't really, sorry, Harry, apart from Jacques Villeneuve in 1996,

we haven't seen a debut anything like it, and it should have resulted in the title. Is it the greatest debut year of all time? Yeah, I think so. I think it's fair. Harry, what's number three on your list? It's been 19 years, but I'm still not over it. Michael Schumacher 2006,

I think he should have been an eighth-time. World Champion that year. There were there's a combination of things. There were a couple of errors from his side. I think Australia that year he crashes out by himself. Hungary 06, which we just recently reviewed

on our historic race review over on Patreon. Please go and take a left turn to that today. But there were the errors from his side. But, you know, the engine blowing at Suzuki this year, which I'm not even sure I could watch now. I'm not sure I could watch you now and it's been 20 years I'd like to watch you watching that

I wouldn't separate tier on Patreon Harry cries tier we've got the gritty corner and the crying corner it's very different areas just like a split screen you have to choose like a career path

they are one or the other you're either gritty with Sam where you cry with Harry yeah you don't have to do either folks Patreon has many other features that are actually worth your one Yeah, that's fair. But yeah, so obviously the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the end of the blurt up in Japan that year, sort of seals his fate.

Um, um, coming into Brazil, he does still have a chance and then he has an issue in qualifying another mechanical issue. And then in the race, he gets to puncture, like, it just all goes, all goes wrong, right of the death. Um, um, but that Ferrari for at least half the year is the faster car. Um, and Fernando Alonzo is sort of, not dragging that renner. the Rano is still good. But if you look at your relative performance to his teammate, Physichella, I think Alonzo is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there. So Schumacher, I think, could well have been an eight-time world champion.

Alonso could well have only a one-time world champ, although I've got more to say about Alonzo in a minute. But yeah, it's just the way the way the cookie crumbled that year. But I think it was quite a near miss for Schumacher in his fight, well, what was then his final season, but his final season for Ferrari. Sam, number three. I'm going to swap to a round here

because they were very close to anyway just because it's exactly the same as what Harry said if I swapped them around so I think that's nice and easy. I've got, you know, Michael with 06. I've also got if he didn't then retire and stayed in the car as part of that because he could have 107.

He definitely killed off 107. There's every chance that he could have been a nine time. I didn't even have Hamilton doing that year. We never got it. Who! Baby Lewis and grown up

Michael going toe to toe, a Ferrari and a McLaren. That would be scenes, you know, and there's every chance if he won those, would he either still be there when Mercedes were actually winning titles later on in their career or when you walk away as a nighttime champ? I'm not going to go on about it because Harry, I think you summarised it perfectly, but that was a big one for me. Number three on my list, Heinz Harold, Frensen and Jordan, 1999.

Big one. this would have been if he pulled off that championship win the biggest underdog story in the history of the sport and it wouldn't be close. Like the fact that he was a few races to go still in that fight is still, you wouldn't see it now. And that's partly because of the increased reliability and the longer seasons,

but you wouldn't see this now what happened in 1999. And in fairness, this could be a what if year for about four different drivers. I've picked out friends and David Coulthard, Eddie Irvine, Michael Schuier. Macro if he doesn't break his leg. All of these are question marks about how this season could have gone. It's just, he has a great start to the year, back-to-back podiums,

picks up an excellent win at the French GP, which I'm really hoping we get to review at some point because that is a banger of a race, really underrated. But he is with, I think, four races to go, he wins the Italian GP. Three races to go. He gets pole for the Nureberg ring, which we have recently reviewed. He is 10 points, so one win exactly, behind Eddie. Irvine and Mika Hakenen. And there's a part in that race where he is leading from the front

and Irvine and Hakenen are not in positions to score points. At one stage, it looked like with two rounds to go, a Jordan driver was going to be tied for the championship lead. Ultimately, Frensen retires from that Grand Prix through no fault of his own. Hakenan comes back to steal a couple of points and ultimately wrap up the championship. But it was so nearly the biggest, you know, underdog story in the history of the sport. Sam, what's number two on the list? What if Braun never bought Honda at the end of 08?

I've got a few things here, so I've written them down, so excuse me for reading off my notes here, but I think this could have opened such a web of events that I had to write them down, and I was kind of spiraling a megabit as to what it might have meant. So I believe only having nine teams, so this is if it never gets bought, Honda leave for sport entirely. Braun don't exist. We're down to nine teams at this point. only having nine teams with BMW and Toyoio is still likely to drop out they would have had much better results so maybe they would have

ending up staying within the sport as a chance that they could have done better Max Mosy at the time I think will have been more powerful because everyone would have kind of gone to panic mode of wait we've got nine teams there's risk of Toyo's with BMW leaving we can be like seven teams which is not great the budget cap would have had a better chance to be produced because of the risk of two teams leaving the teams at the bottom who might have stage, your Lotus, your versions, your HRTs, might have survived longer and had more power in negotiation, I think. And Mercedes, as a engine manufacturer, would have stayed with McLaurang

entirely in their full force, I think. It means that Hamilton would still be there. Rosberg might have ended up going to McLaren. Schumacher would never have come back to the sport. There is such a long list. You know, Jekison Button might have had to sign for Salba or Williams, Ross Braun would have had to go to Braun. It is honestly a monumental list of changes in history that will have taken place simply because Broad didn't pay the one pound to take hondon for the one year and that is a bizarre storyline to have to travel down a auto universe yes there are a lot of things that could have gone very differently harry number two on your list um i won't dwell on this one too much because you've already said this one then but i've got

Ferrari and Vetter in 2018 um uh again i think it's um it's not a downtrop one person. Vettel made errors, clear errors, Germany that year. Monza that year, he spins on his own and we get to Latterin season. That's a big one. Lateran, obviously you mentioned he had a win in spa. Monza was the next race in Ferrari latched out the front row with the wrong Ferrari technically because Riker and decided to turn out that day. But yeah, the spin for Vettel knocks him out of contention and then it all sort of

just unravels from there. But Ferrari also, I think, if I remember correctly, had some like wind tunnel correlation issues or something something something wasn't right and the upgrades they started to bring to the car for the end of that season didn't work and obviously howlinson was on the charge at the same time and it just sort of they fell apart from there but um i think you know uh i i still seem to remember we did we did like a podcast or video or something at the time after spa because spa was so dominant from bettel where i think we all thought that you know, this could well have been his

title to, even though he wasn't leading by that point. And despite the Germany mistake, this could, he bounced back from it so well in terms of the spa victory that, I think we probably thought that he could have done it. But their Monsa happened and it all went wrong. Was it a Facebook live? Probably.

Probably. And you'll never see it. So don't go looking for it. It's dead. And you'll never see it. you could have been talking about Facebook Live or the fact that Ferrari would never go on to win a championship. Both are applicable.

Number two on my list, Kimmy Reichen in 2005. Come on. McLaren, if they produced something of a reliable car, he is right in that fight with Fernando Alonzo that season. Australia, and to be fair, this is on here, he stools on the grid. Malaysia, tire puncture. Imola, drive shaft issue from the lead.

of the race. No, bug ring, last lap from the lead, suspension failure. France, 10 place grid penalty due to an engine. Silverstone, 10 place grid penalty due to an engine. Hock and I'm retires from the lead due to hydraulics. Monza, 10 place grid penalty due to an engine, and Japan, they still went on to do very well at, 10 place grid penalty due to an engine. And he only lost that year by 21 points.

That's like over half the season that something went wrong. Whenever he won that year, he absolutely dominated pretty much. Like he won Spain by 27 seconds, Hungary by 36 seconds. He was excellent all year. I still think it's Rikinen's best season and better than his championship winning season two years later. That McLaren just wasn't reliable enough. In four different races, he was hurt in terms of grid position through no fault of his own. So yeah, he should have been in that title fight.

What takes number one on your list, son? So as I expressed, I definitely had been a bit more excisensual in my what ifs rather than just single seasons here. And my final one is much darker, but does play into the same mindset of that. That what if they cancelled Imola 94 after Ratsenberger passed in qualifying? Sengo will still be here. He will have gone on to being a multiple, multiple time world champion as a chance that maybe he goes and races for Ferrari. He mentioned that he always been a dream of his. We would never have had the disaster.

There's a great documentary that you should go watch. I think it's called Grand Prix, the Killer Years or something like that. I think it was. It really documents how Formula One basically didn't stop. If a driver died, you didn't stop. There were cars on the side of the track in fireballs. There were cars in wrecks on the side of the road. Teams withdrew from that session and stopped qualifying at that time after Ratsenberg

had that horrible accident. but they're all back there again for the race the next day. And Sengel was pretty much one of the last that we saw go through that awful, awful event. But you imagine if they stopped the race and we moved on, we just accepted that it was a loss on the calendar we moved on. He'd still be here. There's every chance he'd still be here.

And he would be one of the most praise and loved and supported drivers of all time. Obviously, he is now, but he'd still be here to recognize that. And I do think that he would have achieved so much more. after what happened. So for me, that is one of the biggest what ifs in Formula One's history. I think with everything Williams

related in the 90s, it's a big what if for any driver who could have like, if there was a driver that did the full decade or close to the full decade, that driver could have won multiple championships. That question was always asked about John Lazy,

who basically had the option to go to Williams or Ferrari. Great cool, Jean. Because if you think of like all the championships they won throughout the decade you had Prost and you had Hill and you had Veilnerve and you had Mansell and they kind of all took one each if there was one driver who did the full decade who knows and Senna was obviously very much in that

conversation as well Harry number one on your list Fernando Alonzo 2012 oh here we go I mean the Ferrari was never meant to be a championship worthy car quite frankly was never really meant to be a car it was terrible that year

what was it destined to be exactly like a pizza bear carbs um yeah Alonza gets the early win early in the year

Malaysia which is in you know wet circumstances but he he gets the result and then just continues to drag wins out of it Valencia famously

he does one in Hochenheim which he actually dominates to be honest from a pole position he got in the rain and it all falls apart I hate when you do

you know I know I know this is a point of it but you point it down to one thing but if Roman Grosion just hadn't been a complete menace at SPAR 2012 because the amount

Alonzo loses by, even if he picks up fourth or something ridiculous like that in Spar that year, it's his title. And I know he gets a puncher, doesn't it? I think it's Suzuki as well, which, you know, could argue what's his own doing. But he's out of the race in that one as well. But, you know, that was that one that maybe hurt even more because Vettel went on to win that race. So it's one of the big what-ifs. I think nothing, no Alonzo season has been potentially better than that.

you could argue maybe 06 does have a claim. But yeah, it should have probably been his third title. And he knows that as well with his broken stare that's famous now. But yeah, I'm not saying this would have changed anything going forward for Alonzo. He may, maybe would he have stayed at Ferrari? Because if after 2014, which was terrible, would he have stayed in Gumball? at least I've got a title, I'll stick it out. And who knows where his career would have gone, but remains to be seen.

Number one on my list, Ronnie Peterson, 1978. He debuted in F1 in 1970 for March, and he impressed from the off. His first race was the Monaco Grand Prix in 1970. Excellent place to start your career. But he impressed from the off. He was runner up in the 1971 Drivers Championship for March again. and he makes the move to Lotus in 1973. He then wins, I think, seven or eight races, seven races for Lotus over the next three years.

And he was third in the driver's championship in one of those years. Consistently, one of the quickest drivers in F1, leaves Lotus after 1975 because he doesn't have a great season. He goes back to March. And that's a really critical detail because he has two other, he is 76, 77. He has uncompetitive machinery. He can't really do much. then goes back to Lotus for 1978, but very specifically as a number two driver to Mario Andretti.

That season, Lotus developed an excellent car and Andretti wins the championship. But Peterson as the second driver is constantly second place in one, two finishes and right behind Andretti. And there was always a question. Like if he, if he was free to race, could he have beaten Andretti that season? And the chances are, there's every chance he could have done. Obviously, that was also the season late in the year that he was killed at the Italian GP, but he still had enough points with two races to go after that,

that he posthumously was runner up in the driver's championship. But, you know, if he had stayed at Lotus and he didn't have that number two driver tag, could he have won this championship? Very possibly. He's always been, for me, one of the greatest drivers, never to win the world championship. I think behind Sterling Moss, I think I'd probably put him second, but that was probably the year that he could have got it. but that's the way his career panned out to that point.

A very, very varied top five. We did well there to barely repeat. Unusual for us. Indeed. Let us know if you think there's anything that the three of us have missed out on, a particular driver, a particular team that maybe should have won a title or maybe should have done slightly better in a particular season. Let us know in the comments on Discord everywhere that you can hit us up.

Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of. here. Thanks so much for listening, folks. Thanks for joining us on these non-race days. I know it's not all high octane F1 analysis, so we're having some good time just talking about F1 news and F1 history. So thanks for joining us. I hope you enjoy it. Share it, leave a comment, leave five stars with a little review in there. If you'd like, we appreciate it all. And we will see you midweek where we get back to the racing action, of course, because we are back to Imala. So we're doing the preview there. Make sure you stick around for that one. Thanks for listening. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage.

I've been Ben Hawking and I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.