The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Charles Leclerc the biggest F1 star of the future? | Episode 89

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

Is Charles Leclerc set for more success than Max Verstappen? After Sebastian Vettel's comments at the Turkish GP, the LB boys weigh in with their opinion. Plus they talk track safety, discuss which team can topple Mercedes, and play a game of F1: True Or False...Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to The Late Breaking F1 Podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome. This is the late breaking F1 podcast. My name is Ben Hocking. Sam's age is in the house. So too is Harry Ede.

Sam, after last week's chocolate bar debate with Sergio Perez, do you have a definitive answer as to what? what chocolate bar, Sergio Perez is. I mean, I don't. No one got in touch about it. I'm quite disappointing at the lack of responses on our Twitter at El Breaking, by the way, folks. I'm going to put it out now, actually.

So if you're listening to this tomorrow, there's a 24-hour poll on our Twitter, what chocolate bar is Sergio Perez? Get involved. Good, good. I'm glad we've immediately entered into chocolate bar debate territory. We are 45 seconds into this podcast,

and already it's our greatest. one ever. So, yeah, congrats, guys. I love it. Also, just to clarification, everyone, I'm not in the house. I live in a flat. I don't say, Ben, what house are you referring to here? Because I think you're the only one who does live in a house. Yeah, actually, flats are how are you here? Two to one. The flats have it. The flats have it. Anyway, we've actually got some other things we're going to be talking about today that are related to, would you believe it, Formula One. Mercedes, seven straight constructors titles, seven straight drivers titles. It has to end at some point, I think, but when will it happen and who will do it? We'll be discussing that

later on. A couple of near misses regarding some potentially dangerous incidents, both Istanbul and Imala, so is it a time to look at safety? And we'll be playing a game of F1, true or false. Play along at home and see if you can beat Harry and Sam. Trust me, it's not that difficult. But first, it is actually, they're more intelligent than they first let on. We're going to be talking first, though, about an interesting quote from Sebastian Vettel after the Turkish Grand Prix about his current teammate, Charles Lecler. So after the race, he told reporters that Charles is perhaps the biggest star for the future, maybe more than Max. So, Sam, is he right? No, because Roy Gassani is.

Harry, is he right? That's all, folks. Thanks for listening. I'm a serious note. I think Seth makes a very good argument. Of course, there is more evidence to suggest that Max Verstappen is the man to put your money behind for winning the next world title after Lewis Hamilton is done a dusty. Let's realistically say that he's going to be the favourite to win the next batch. But if you're going to put your money on someone completely new, I understand why you go for Max Verstappen.

He's in a card that's close. the Red Ball is far closer to winning anything than the Ferrari currently is at the moment. And arguably, the Red Bulls have been the most consistent car other than the Mercedes throughout the whole hybrid era. Ferrari had been up and they've been down and they've been up. They've been down and they're currently very down. The Stafford has more race wins, in Charles LeClau. The Stafford has more time in the sport, but we know from Lewis Hamilton that time in

the sport doesn't mean that you don't get to win a championship as soon as possible. He won it, of course, in his second year and was challenging for it in his first. So experience doesn't always count for everything. Max has definitely got the backing of the people. Charlecler is still a relative newbie in comparison. But there's a little glimmer, I think. There's a little bit of Ferrari hope that is buried with in the Tophosi, that they really have got kind of almost not maybe the next Schumacher,

but the essence of Schumacher in Charlotte, Claire, the man that could turn them around and lead them to something exciting and important and different. and I think Charlecler will be a world champion. I'd be mighty shocked if he gets the end of his career when he hasn't won a world championship. I wouldn't be shocked if he does win it before Max. I personally think that Max is too committed to the Red Bull team

and they might end up being stuck where they are currently. Whereas I think Charlecler, I don't know. I feel like Ferraria willing to change that now and could adapt. So, yeah, I can definitely see why Seb Vettel has made. made the argument of saying that Charles LeCleur is going to be the next big star, not Max Verstappen. But I mean, at the end of the day,

who isn't going to love watching year after year Max versus Lecler in different teams, hopefully neck and neck the entire time? Maybe with Russell and Norris throwing in as well. I think that would be absolutely fantastic. But the stats sit with de Stauffer, but I think, I don't know, I think the momentum

at the moment is currently with Lecler. It's been absolutely fantastic all season. What do you reckon, Harry? Do you think that Vettel has a point in what he says? Yeah, I think he does. I mean, it all depends on, you know, what cars they end up with in the future. And if Ferrari is like it is now, then LeClau is not going to win much, I don't think.

But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, LeCler has not been there as long as Max. That's not so much. Max hasn't been around for a long time. But I just, Leclair. There's attitude to how he goes racing, I think, is just slightly better than maxes. And this is not a, I'm not slagging Max off at all here. I think, you know, he does special things of that car.

I mean, how quick he was in that qualifying session on Saturday was ridiculous. And but he should have won that race, I think, potentially. But he was impatient. And there's almost a bit of entitlement with the way he goes racing and he feels like he deserves to win, which, you know, no doubt he does. he's a super talented driver. I don't know. I just get at the feeling LeClaire's got just a slightly better attitude, and it could come undone for Max if he...

I don't know. I'm sure he will mature. He is still very young, so I'm sure we'll happen, but he needs to perhaps just rein it in a little bit. I think undoubtedly, if they both have competitive cars, they're going to be the ones battling for championships one day or once, you know, Hamilton has retired and moved on. You know, we saw glimpses of it at Silverstone last year, I think,

when they just kept, you know, banging wheels, having a great old scrap. That is the future of F1, I want to watch. Let's be real. But, yeah, whether Leclair will be the one who is ahead, I still think it's hard to tell, but they are both. Well, I mean, Ben, you call him God, God Leclair, for good reasons. But who's going to be head? It's very hard to tell.

It depends how the next few years go for them both. But I would not be surprised if Clare does end up winning a championship or more championship as some of the Stappen does. But like I said, I think it's going to be those two, you know, battling it out. And for Seb to say that, I mean, he has an up-close knowledge of how Leclair works. He's been his team out now for two seasons. So, Claire has this year definitely put him in his place. And he doesn't necessarily have that knowledge of Vastappen.

So it's not necessarily surprising, but I think he's got a legitimate point. Yeah, from my perspective, I think it's close. And I would agree with the point that a lot of it is going to be a product of circumstance and a product of their own decision making. And ultimately, they're both talented enough that if they've got the car underneath them and if they've got the team around them, they will be able to convert these, you know, these races into wins and those wins into championships. They're both easily talented enough to do so.

I think this almost sounds like a little bit of a hot take almost because we're coming out of a race where Max Verstappen has had, I would definitely say his worst race of the season. It's definitely his most wasteful race of the season. And even though Leclair wasn't able to convert his performance into a podium, he was exceptional. You know, he was, he was miles behind the likes of Seb in the first half of the race. And he still caught up to them all, still in contention for P2 right until the second to last corner. So, Leclair had an excellent performance.

Vestappen had a disappointing performance. So it does sound like this is a hot take. But it's important not to confuse the point here. And that is Vettel is talking about potential. Vettel is talking about who will be the best star in Formula One. it's not asking the question of who is better right now. For me, it's a very definitive Vostappan is the better driver right now. As great as LeClair is, and I would probably put LeClaire as the third best driver on the grid right now.

But I think there is a gap at the moment between the top two of Hamilton and Vastappen, back to them a group of third to fifth or sixth, which would include Leclair, Ricardo, Bottas, and Perez. So I think right now Vestappen has got the end. but that is not what is being asked here. The question is who is the better prospect? Who has got the most potential in the sport? George Russell is not one of the best drivers on the grid at the moment, but does he have the potential to be?

Absolutely, he does. So just important to remember what the question is. And it's not comparing, let's say it's not comparing apples and apples here. You've got Leclair, who is in his third season of Formula One. Vastappen has done double the amount of time in Formula One compared to Leclair. It's easy to look at them both similar age, similar ability, similar chance to become one of the best in F1, if not the best in F1. It's easy to just directly compare them without any sort of comparative point of where they are in their respective careers.

Vestappen is in his sixth year of his career. Leclair is only in his third. So rather than just looking at 2020 Leclair versus 2020 Vestappen, it's important to look at 2020 Leclair versus 2017 Vastappen, because that's really where the comparison point is if we're using F1 experience. And if you were to compare 2017 Vastappen and 2020 Leclair, for me, 2020 LeClaire wins it, because Vastappen at that point in his career was more than prone to making quite a few errors. He still makes them now, but he doesn't make anywhere near as many as he did at that point in his career.

Leclair, already, even though it does make the odd mistake, seems to be clear of any of that kind of issue. So I think they both have a lot of potential. Both will win championships if they get the right team at the right time. Vastappen for me definitely better right now. But if I had to say who was better in terms of potential, who could be the absolute best, I think I'd give it to Leclair. I think he edges it, but I'm going to go with Leclair. I think Turkey did serve as a little bit of proof that Veslawful.

that Vastappan's still not quite there. There's still something when it comes to being patient. It's still not quite there for him. So God Leclair is going to take the round for me. I think something that we'd all love to see, actually, is in about four years' time if they ended up in the same team. I think that would be incredibly exciting to witness. And that would be the answer, right?

That we would know for definite. It's like when you put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car for 2007, 2008, you kind of got the glimpse of actually where the talent was going. And it will be the same thing here. I would absolutely love to see the Clur and Vettel. It's like when Ricardo went against Vettel, right? The Clure has beaten Vettel now. And it looks like he's been I've beaten two years in a row.

And Ricardo managed to beat Vettel. So does that mean that theoretically Vestappen can maybe beat Vettel? Because he's also beaten Ricardo. Those two are incredibly close. Ricardo also got the better of Vestappen. So a lot of great drivers on the grid, and long of world champions in play, I'd be super, super keen to see how

those two match up against each other in half a decade's time. If you're saying that Ricardo is the barometer here, does that make Danny Kaffir at the best driver on the grid right now? Yes, it's about time it's recognised. Thank goodness, we've reached this conclusion. Thank goodness. What they need to do, and I can't remember the year off the top of my head,

maybe around 85 or something along those lines, when they just put everyone in the same car, they put everyone in road cars and it in the centre of one. Wouldn't it be brilliant if you could do that with the current F1 grid? Put them all in F3 cars or something like that. Yeah. That would be a lot of fun. It would be great.

Or even F2. It would be hilarious. Sure. Not going to happen, but I can keep dreaming. Let's move on to Mercedes. So Lewis Hamilton's championship in Istanbul means that the team have completed seven consecutive, clean sweeps. So 2013 and Red Bull the last time they did not win.

Think of how different the world was at that point. Obama was just starting, he just finishing his first year in his second term. That's how far back you have to go for the last time Mercedes weren't winning. Regardless. The question continues on, who will defeat them and when will that be? So, Harry, which team has the best chance and when? never again. This is it now.

We are living. We're in Mercedes World. We're in the same world. Who knows? I mean, you've got us on the basis of the past few years. It's going to, you'd have to say, Red Bull or Ferrari, but, you know, Red Bull, where will they be in 2022

without a fully fledged Honda-backed engine behind them? you know that that could you know shove them down the order um Ferrari you know they get close but then they do Ferrari things like build a bad car have a bad strategy you know all sorts of just bad things or use a dodgy engine um so you know it could be them but then again we don't have much faith in them maybe it could be a McLaren a resurgent McLaren I mean this is hard to tell we could get to 2022 and the rules change and Mercedes could plummet down the order. I'm doubtful, but it could happen, in which case it could be any of the teams to pick up

the pieces. We've had the Braun GP story before. There's no reason why that couldn't happen again. It's going to be a massive overhaul of the rules. So yeah, I would not want to put my money on picking a team to take over. But if I had to say, I would go with. Ferrari. I'll go with Ferrari. I think eventually they'll do something. They've got so much money behind them. Like, come on. Come on, boys. You can do it. With your answer being Ferrari, presumably you think Mercedes are going to relatively comfortably walk to another title in 21 and 22 might be the next best chance to strike? I mean, yeah, there's not much changing next year. We're going to different circuits, but I don't see what else is going to change apart from a few driver lineups.

Well, you know, I would like to be surprised, but I would be surprised if next year's any different. I mean, there was an interview with good old Gunther on Sky at the weekend and they were asking him about 21 and he was effectively already writing it off. I know it's different for Haas, but yeah, he didn't see, you know, because I think things will be so consistent to this year in terms of the cars and everything. that I don't think we'll see much change in the pecking order. So, yeah, I'm relatively confident Mercedes will take it again next year,

but 22 is the, 22 is the big one. I mean, that's why, you know, Alonza's coming back for crying out loud. He wants to win everything at 2022. Can't wait to turn up at Melbourne. In 2022, Mercedes are on poll by two seconds. But we'll get to that at some point. Sam, what do you think? Do you think there's a team that's most likely to take over?

and when needing that might be. So I'm going to look at this from the point of view that Mercedes take a step back from Formula One. Because, yeah, well, I like to think of these wonderful worlds where we have equal competition. And if that is the case, if Mercedes depart the sport after 2021,

I simply stay as a sponsor, maybe engineering partner and an engine supplier and not a full works team, then I think, due to the fact their engines have been so reliable, they've been so well built, the team is so well run. And I imagine that those teams running Mercedes engine parts and using Mercedes parts throughout the car will probably be picked up by the teams that will be running

Mercedes engines. Red Bull, I don't think, don't stand a chance. Same as Ferrari. And this is for budget reasons. I think the new budgets coming in mean that they are going to have a massive struggle to reel everything backing. I think they're going to really, really struggle. The same thing goes from McLaren. I think McLaren could really be in a strong position come the new regulations. They're on the rise. They've got great young drivers in the car. Ricardo's going to be leading.

Matt Norris is going to be growing. The issue is then, is again money. They spend far too much money for where they are currently in the championship. For me, the favourites are racing point as soon to be, Aston Martin. The team have gone through many changes. They've never been a top spending team.

They managed to be continually successful in terms of a midfield outfit throughout the entire time where they were going through bankruptcy and they had to change names, they had to get bought out. They were so successful there. The crop of drivers they always seem to attract is strong. You know, Larkstrol is going to be around for a while.

And Lansdraultz is not the top of his game. He's not one of the best races in the field. But he's definitely, you know, average to better than average. And I think Lanshaw has gone a long of time to improve himself and will be there for a long of time. If they keep Perez, maybe, and put Lansdra back in the car, then I think Perez can be there for another four or five years. He's got plenty of time under his belt.

If not, there will be a lot of good drivers that Mercedes, maybe other areas were going to put in that seat. And I think Aston Martin, after the end of this season, become what will essentially be Mercedes, not B team, but like partner team. You know, Mercedes owner steak in Aston Martin, you know, not the type you eat.

I'm talking about an investment steak, at least 20%. We know that Aston Martin share engines with Mercedes anyway, in their road cars. I really think that due to the budgets coming in, the driver salary that is happening, because we know that the strolls, will find a way to pay LARCs next to nothing, and there'll be some external, you know,

daddy giving some pocket money outside of the sport, which is essentially his wage, but that gives them an extra 20, 30 million to play with wherever they want it. They're going to be able to work around the rules, I think. And with Mercedes backing of that team, I think Aston Martin are going to be the team that ends up fighting at the front. I think Vessel's going to help them develop the car.

I just think they've got a lot going for them. So I hope Williams make a resurgence, because they're the other ones, right? they don't spend an absolute truck ton of money, but more than what they should do for where they are. But, you know, they're on the right path. Again, with Russell, if he stays around, if Mercedes-Go and Russell has to stay at the Williams seat,

then they could build something there. But for me, the early favourites are actually the, I think Ashton Martin would come out of the woodwork. If Mercedes stick around for another 10 years, I think Mercedes could win the next three or four, personal. Yeah, I'm kind of going to do the opposite of, what you've done, Sam, and just presume that Mercedes are going to keep going in their current guys with their current strategy. In which case, I do not think for a second that regardless

of regulation changes, Mercedes are going to hand over a championship to another team. Now, obviously, we know what happened with the last major regulation change, 2013 to 2014. the dynamic of, you know, it shifted completely, the power shifted from Red Bull, who had won four consecutive championships, to Mercedes essentially overnight. I think Mercedes are just too well run to fall off completely. I would be very surprised if we come to 2022,

and they're in a position where they are even slightly uncompetitive. And we have to remember as well that when Mercedes have had a bit of a history of wrapping up championships pretty early, you know, and as a result of that, being able to focus on next year's development, or I guess in this year's instance, they might already be focused on 2022. They're able to get out such a massive lead in the first half of championships that everyone seems to catch up in the second half of the year, when in reality, Mercedes are just behind the scenes looking towards the next year already. That might well be what their plan is right now to get ready for 2022. So who's in a good position to?

to overhaul them. I don't think anyone's in a great position to, but there are a few opportunities out there. In terms of current performance, you'd have to say that Red Bull have to at least be a part of the shortlist, if not at the head of it. I think Red Bull with the cost cap are going to be very effective, even with what's going on with Honda. And then there are some requirements that they have to meet in order to be competitive and stand a chance of getting a championship away from Mercedes, but considering Red Bull would not need to cut back as much as Mercedes will in terms of their overall spend, that should hand them a fairly nice advantage. I can't remember the figures off the top of my head, but I think Mercedes probably spend about 60, 70% more in F1 than Red Bull do.

So that would be advantage for Red Bull. But like I say, they do need to get some things right before they can even think about taking a championship away from them. The first thing they need to do they absolutely have to get the second driver right. Because if they don't get that right, they don't stand a chance of winning either championship. Now, Constructed's Championship, that obviously makes a lot of sense because that is half of your points

or should be half of your points. But I also think Max Verstappen doesn't stand a chance of winning the driver's championship until he does have that reliable number two driver because it just hampers him in terms of strategy far too often to make him a viable contender for the title. And the other thing they have to get right is this engine deal. So, you know, 2021, they're relatively safe and, you know, that they've still got Honda for the time being.

But they are going to have to find a good long-term solution, whether that's through their own, you know, own development, whether they go down the route of, you know, Mugent Honda, as we've kind of discussed before, whether they do look elsewhere, where they go back to Renault. Whatever they choose, it needs to be a viable and sustainable option. and even if they can't beat Mercedes in the engine department, which has long been the case, that's okay because they are good enough elsewhere that they can overcome that. They just need to get everything else right if that's going to be the case. So we know they're very good aerodynamically. We know their top of the range in terms of strategy. We know their pit stops are unbeaten, you know, two seconds nearly every single time.

So we know they are good in a number of areas. is if engine development or the Honda engine, the Renault engine, whatever they go with, they can afford to be slightly behind as long as everything else makes up for it. Other teams, Aston Martin, I don't think that in the short term they're going to be competing, but who knows? We know what the pink Mercedes is looking like, and maybe that has given them the opportunity to focus more on 22, considering they essentially didn't really have to do much to the current car they've got.

and just to say actually on Aston Martin before I move on from them, if they were competitive for a championship and if they did go on and win a championship, I don't care what guys they're in, what colour their livery is, who the team principal is, I will just love that Eddie Jordan

is there in memory, his old team. Not in memory, he's coming straight back. You know he's rolling over that barricade with his shirt half open, his air and mess. He's just come out of a casino

with a pint in the other hand. And he's straight, in that, Gary, being like, this is my team. You know, he's in there. I'll take it from here, Altmar. Oh, please, E.J., please, E.J., get it. Bring back Heinz-Arrel Frentzen while you're at it. Go on, do it.

Final team to focus on is Ferrari. So, they're not going to be there in 21, let's face it, unless they have the biggest recovery of it forever, in which case there's probably something dodgy going on. But 2022, they should be better. There's no guarantee, but they should be better in 2022. But like Mercedes, I think they might struggle a little bit in terms of the budget cap. But we'll see on number.

Let's move on to our next topic, which is a few incidents that we've seen in recent races. So firstly, we saw that Lance Stroll came close to hitting a marshal that was on track whilst behind the safety car. Lance Stroll was unlapping himself at the time, sort of sped off. there were still, I think two Marshalls still on or just off the circuit as he was going around. And then in Istanbul last week, Michael Massey made the decision to start Q2, despite the fact that a crane was still on the circuit at the time. It was moving off, but it was still on there at the time that they started the session.

So, Sam, have the FIA become slack on safety, do you think? Yes. That is, one incident is too many already. We've had too many people's lives taking away, ruined, destroyed, families, you know, scarred for life because silly, silly, silly, silly, silly decisions have been made or not enough safety protocols have been put in place or rash decisions have been thrown out by the FIA, the steward's room. And Massey, mate, what are you doing? Are you literally asleep in the steward's room over there? because there are stewards walking around on the track at one point. Sebastian Vettel has to radio back, tell everyone to slow down.

It's so dangerous. I've nearly hit stewards. Lucky that he was going slowly at that point. But seven, eight cars go through at full speed. Lank Stroll is meters away from just a man walking around on the track. That is not all right. Not okay at all. And then we come to arguably what has been the most dangerous Grand Prix for a long time.

The Turkish Grand Prix on that new track surface anyway, I'm amazed that we only had one day. And that DNF wasn't related to the track. You don't actually crashed it bad enough that they had to DNF themselves. So, Bravo to the drivers for the showing off that fantastic skill. But they were slipping sliding everywhere. And they slipping,

slipping slowed. There's a new word for you, folks. They slip and slowed straight into the off track, into the gravel, into the grass, lucky or into a barrier. But they were closing up. If they happened to do it in the wrong place, straight under a crane, they go.

And you know who else was straight under a crane? Hugh Bianchi. And he ain't here anymore because of a stupid, stupid decision and we haven't learned from it. And it's not okay. That is not all right. If we had that happen again, regardless of who it was or what was the cause, there should be absolutely zero, zero reason that that is ever a possibility ever again. And I'm furious that nothing has been brought up with it since the incident happened. No review, no disciplinary, no public action taken.

One wrong move. One slip. One puddle. you know, a tire goes, bang, you know, a puncture happens. We saw it was close on many of the cars. You're straight under that vehicle. And even with the halo, the bloody earlors, you never know if it's going to be enough support. We can't guarantee it.

And I don't want the drivers to be at risk like that. They risk themselves enough driving around at the highest things they do for our own entertainment. So, yeah, they're getting a check. The slack was far too much. It's embarrassing that we're putting this many people with lives at risk for no reason. So, yeah, massings are talking to and the FIA need to review things. What are your thoughts on this situation, Harry? Yeah, I totally agree with what Sam said.

The first one in Imala, I'm not forgiving it at all. But, you know, the situation in the race is a safety car, and I know they've got access to more information than we do, but I don't know whether it's over-corps. you know, break down the communication between the marshals and the stewards. I don't know. But the one in Turkey just is madness. When we, and when I say we, I mean, us three, the rest of the people watching F1 around the world,

can see on the TV screen, that's our only outlet here is the TV screen, that the recovery crane is still clearly in a zone where a car could slide off and hit it. If we can see that, then why have they let any cars go out on the circuit? And to reference back what I was talking about, about the situation with Ian Imala, where it's, you know, race circumstances. This isn't qualifying in Turkey. So just wait, just give it like a minute.

It literally took a minute for that crane to actually get in. So why not just wait a minute? I know we'd had a delay, but one minute wasn't going to make any difference whatsoever. So it's just not acceptable. And I don't understand it. And, you know, as Sam said, it's a saw point for F1 because we've had an accident

where a car has gone under a crane and the poor driver was killed eventually. So beyond bizarre and I'm not going to heap it all on Massey but I would be shocked if you know Charlie Whiting had let that kind of event happen whilst he was in charge. So yeah I think something used to change there

because if it's, whether it's a breakdown of communications or there's not the right person in charge, I don't know, but it, yeah, it's just not right. And not, you know, for the sake of the show, I don't think it was for the sake of the show because, you know, like I said, we just had to wait a minute and that was it and it would have been fine. So, yeah, not acceptable. Hope we don't see anything more like that this year or ever. Yeah, I think if you're looking at the stroll incident, you know, I know it was double yellows and Stroll himself wasn't told over Team Radio to slow down.

Realistically, you shouldn't be letting them go past the safety car if you know that there are marshals out there. And if you don't know that there are marshals still out there, why don't you know? That's clearly something that they need to tackle if that's the case. So, yeah, that really wasn't a great incident. The one in Turkey is the one that really got me, though, because I did not like this at all. and I'd not sure what I disliked more, the actual incident itself, or I guess not an incident, but the action itself, or whether I disliked the response more, because the response was not good.

It's not, I did not enjoy that whatsoever. You know, Michael Massey came out and said that in hindsight, yeah, he could have done this. He had assurances. We'll do an investigation, but it does very much sound like it's ticking the boxes. and ensuring that something's done to appease people, which is never the reason that things should be done. I think it was a very laid-back approach, didn't regret anything, and I just was not happy about that at all,

because it shows that nothing was learned. It shows that in a similar situation, Michael Massey will very likely do exactly the same thing. And I know some people think that I'm going to be overreacting here with what I'm saying, because yes, it was a very, very, very, small chance that the crane wasn't removed in time. I mean, the crane was there.

He had insurances that it would be gone by the time the drivers are out there. Yeah, I understand it was an outlap for all of these drivers. I understand it was well off the racing line. And I get that the chance of an incident is very, very small. The problem is, when you make that decision over and over again, as his post-race comments indicate, soon enough, you do them enough times, that percentage is going to come through. If you're taking a 0.05% risk once, it's very, very unlikely that anything's going to happen, sure. But if you repeat that behaviour over and over again, sooner or later, that is going to

come through and something's going to happen, as we saw, you know, not even a decade ago. And really, this approach to safety, and the fact that if Michael Massey had come out afterwards and said, that was a really bad call, I'm really sorry, I should have waited until it was gone, there was no reason not to wait, I'd be relatively okay with it, because I could then have confidence this won't happen again. But his response and his reaction, quite honestly, it spits on the memory of Jol Bianchi. and all of those, all drivers that have died as a result of poor safety or a poor decision or just adverse conditions, it's not okay. It really saddened me, actually. There's every chance that something will happen again. Yeah, like I say, I gather the chance of something happening was small,

but you keep repeating activity like that. Sooner or later, something bad will happen. And is that what it's going to take? Someone else dying? Someone else getting. seriously injured before action is taken on safety, that should not be the case. The action needs to be done before that to prevent these sorts of incidents rather than that being the cause of introducing more. It's much better the first way around rather than that way around. And clearly, if Shaw Bianchi, you know, passed away six, seven years ago, is that the time frame? Is that, okay, we'll pay attention to safety for a few years and then actually after six or seven, we'll go back to our old habits.

I thought it was wrong. It was really poor. So, shall we move on to, and I don't know, have you got a theme song for this next segment, Harry? I've never sung one. Yeah, I mean, that usually doesn't stop you, Sam. Sam, have a go with this one. I just have a pained expression the entire time this music song.

You just imagine me looking out the window, cried of being like, is it true or false? Like, but is it, though? Because I never know the answer. So is it true or is it false? Or is it false or true? I don't know. It's not up to me, though. It's up to you. It's F1, true or false. That was like a streets.

A streets version of a jingle. As Sam explained in such an eloquent way, we're going to be playing F1, true or false. So I've got 10 statements in front of me. and the guys will take it in turns. I will say the statement, and it's really simple. They just have to tell me, is it a true statement or is it a false statement? So play along at home, see how many out of 10 you can get right. Can you get more than these two combined?

Harry, let's start with you this time out. Pick a number between 1 and 10. Nine. All right, number 9. Okay, true or false, Harry Ead. Flavio Briatore once referred to Giancarlo Fizakela as incompetently competent.

That's savage. I want that to be true, true. I'm afraid that's made up. It's not true. That was brilliant. I probably should check, though, because that does sound like something he would say about Physicella. That's not something we would say.

What, by then all you said it. Yeah. Yeah, it's not my actual true thoughts just coming out in the form of a briatory quote, by the way. Unfortunately, yeah, Harry, that one's not right. But Sam, you have a chance to get something on the board. Pick a number between 1 and 10 that isn't 9. I'll go 3 because it is a magic number. All right, 3 is a magic number.

True or false? The Indy 500 last appeared on the F1 calendar in 1970. And what do you mean by the Indy 500? The race that happens. Are we talking about Indianapolis the circuit or F-1 running at Indy-500? As in like it doing the Oval. The Indy 500, the race. Oh, I'm going to say false.

It is false. The last time it appeared on the calendar was 1960. You could tell that I definitely knew what I was on about there, folks. Definitely. But it is false. So right nonetheless. Harry, another number, please. Four.

Number four. Jackie Stewart won the British, Irish, Welsh and Scottish Skeet Shooting Championships. Oh man. True. It is true, yes, he did. Come on Jackie Stewart.

Very nearly competed in the 1960 Olympics in shooting. Fun fact about it. Jackie Stewart. What a multifaceted man. Indeed. Next number please, Sam. Ten. Number ten. Taki Anui

did not score any F1 points, true or false. True. It is true. He did not score any points whatsoever. It deserves him. Stop the count, but give him more.

I think he finished eighth once. So he got close, but To me, that's four points. Yeah, sure. We'll use modern scoring for him. But yes, you're right. It is true. So, Harry, next one for you.

Seven. Sam, what did you pick last time? Yeah, seven's fine. Seven. All right, number seven. Ricardo Zonta, or Big Zons, as we like to call him on the podcast. Big Sox, Big Zunts. He won the GP2 title five years after his last F-1 race.

Is that that? true or false? Hang on, hang on. Was it called GP2 at the time? I can't tell you that. Well, because it's not called GP2 now. It wasn't called GP2 before.

GP2. I go false. It is false. Giorgio Pantano did win the GP2 title about four years after he was in Formula One, but big zonts, not him. So that is correct, well,

don't know? Well done, Harry. Sam, next number. I'm going to go with number five. Number five. Alex Albon is the first tie driver to compete in F1, true or false? I'm going to say that that is true. It's false.

God, damn it, Albon. Why can't you be first in anything you ever do? Wow. Funny Al. Yeah, there's only been one other tie driver. Prince Beirer back in the 1950s. Sorry, not true. So it's two each after three goes each.

So we've got four more left, two each. Harry, what are you going for on your next number? Number one, please. Number one. The winner of Michael Schumacher's final race was Jensen Button. The winner of Jensen Button's first race was Michael Schumacher. Is that true or false? I know this one. It is true. It's a good, it's a great fact.

It is a great fact. Yeah. It is true. It also works for, I think, Proston Sena it works for as well, weirdly. But yeah, well done. Sam, you've got three numbers to choose between you can two, six or eight. I will go with number eight. Number eight, Ralph Schumacher. Oh, Ralphie the Muffy. He won exactly six F1 races, true or false. Ooh. Did you go on mouthy the mouthy?

Yeah, because he's got a massive mouth, didn't he? I'm going to go with true. He did, he won exactly six races. Oh, it's good this, true or false stuff. We're getting down to the last two. It's three each. Harry, this could be the all-important call. Number two or number six?

Number six, please. Number six. Nigel Mansell's last F-1 race came in 1994, true or false? Oh, fudge. I was going to say the game is not true or fudge. True or Fudge. I'm going to go with false. It is false.

Well done. He did a few. races in 95. I couldn't remember if he actually did the races in 95 because I don't remember, but he couldn't fit in the car or something, couldn't he? I remember. I was there. Fat nige. Which means

Fat Nige. Fad Nige. Fad Nige. What a Q-O. Oh, no. All right, Sam, which means you get number two to try and tie this up at four all. Eddie Jordan. Oh, yes, it's my boy. It's all true.

He did 15 minutes of practice in place of Bertrand Gashow at 1991 Mexican Grand Prix. Oh, come on. I'm going to have to say, I'll have to say it's true because it's E.J. Even if it's wrong, I want it to be true. Because it's not true. I wanted it to be true. I really wanted it to be true as well as I was writing it out.

Eddie Jordan lives in my head, Rang Freet. Oh, man. Just to confirm people, Eddie Jordan did not do 15 minutes of practice at the 1991 Mexican Grand Prix. I'm going to speak it into his existence. Everyone will believe he did. Yeah. Well done, Harry. 4-3 win on that one.

Thanks. Do you want an outro to this game? Yeah, I suppose. Sometimes I say things that might be right. Sometimes they're wrong. is the only one that really understands what I'm saying. Like he tells me if it's true or false. False or true.

It's not up to me. It's up to you. It's F1, true or false. Cheers. You sound really depressed. You know, just keeping it real. It's tough. He's just had a close four, three loss there in true or false.

I feel like Nico Rosberg. Don't throw a cap at me, please. Well, with Sam throwing a cap at Harry, I think it's probably best to get out of here for this episode. We'll be back next week previewing the first of two races in Bahrain, the one around the circuit that we usually see next time around. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind for now getting us out of here. Folks, thanks for joining the podcast.

As always, please share it. Please subscribe to our podcast, follow it along. We can see that you guys are gathering, which is amazing to see, but we'd love to have a bigger audience, a larger community to share a love of F1 with. Get down to YouTube as well. We're so close to the 2K. Mark, and we've got good videos out at the moment about Hamilton. You know, was at his greatest drive ever?

He's a seven-time world champion, which is amazing. Perez, you know, a racing point that made a massive mistake, getting rid of him. Go give that a watch if you're having as well. I'd love to hear your opinions. In the meantime, we'll see you next week. I've been Samuel Cohn. I've been Ben Hockey. I've been Bertrand Gasho.

And remember, keep breaking late. The cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.