The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Drive To Survive good for F1? | Episode 156

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

After Max Verstappen announced that he would not be taking part in the fourth series of Drive To Survive, the LB trio ask whether it's good for F1. They also discuss Martin Brundle and Megan Thee Stallion's awkward encounter on the grid in Austin, and play F1: Fill In The Blank!JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage, Harry Ead and me, Ben Hocking. We're here again and we're lucky to all be hearing. again, Harry has once again, a round of applause for him, really. He has managed to make the trek across England to get here for a podcast recording.

He really does love you all, even if he doesn't show it. Well done, Harry. You never show you. Mine's for the hype for you. I don't intend to trek across England just for the podcast. It's not my intention to do that, but for you listeners, I get here. on time. Also, just for our American listeners, which is over 50% of you, thousands of you, this is England, so a short trek is about two hours. For you, it would take days. So it's

going here as bad. We will fit into one town, our entire nation. So it's really, it's not that bad, really. Don't worry about us too much over here across the pond. Well, it's a good start to the podcast, Sam displaying his geographical expertise by correctly making the assessment that America is bigger than England. I'm good at this. I'm proud of you, Sam. Congrats. Thanks. Well, apart from geography, we're going to be talking Formula One as well, and we have got plenty to discuss as ever. We're going to be discussing what Mercedes need to do better in the last five races, if they're going to keep their stranglehold on both championships heading out of 2021. Should there be rules about celebrities on the grid. We saw grid walks for the first time in a while this past

weekend. So a few discussion points have come out as a result of that. And we're going to play F1 fill in the blank later on. It's a bit of an underwhelming theme song. So we apologize on that. But it's a good segment nonetheless, which is also of some sort of importance. But first of all, Max Verstappen, we're going to be discussing him because this weekend it was announced that he would not be taking part in season four of Drive to Survive. So he didn't want to have any input based on what he's seen in previous seasons, perhaps thinking that some of the fake rivalries, something he mentioned, he wasn't a fan of that and wasn't necessarily a plan, a fan of the dramatized portrayal of some of the drivers. So looking at this, do you agree with his decision,

I don't think it's for me to agree with or disagree with. And ironically, that could be the end of the segment. There we go. We've discussed it. Honestly, hang of the podcast. We're done. Bye. Yes.

I think this is actually a really mature and interesting decision from Max just happened to make. No one else has said that. They've all seen it. They've all watched bits of it. They've all heard the feedback on it. And I think Max makes a fair point. And it's something we've commented on a lot with Drives to Spive.

We like it. We watch it. but for those who are maybe new to the sport, those who have started following the Formula One by watching Drive to Survive, you may have watched that, and then come into the sport properly and gone, no one seems to talk about this weird hate

between Landon, Gores and Carlos Sites. As a matter of fact, they're pretty much best friends. So I can see why maybe he doesn't want to be manipulated on the screen in that manner, and he only wants his own words to come out how they're meant to. I actually feel like Netflix are the ones losing out, I think it actually causes the Drive to Survive series to lose some credibility.

And let's face it, the most favourite driver to win the championship with five races to go has decided, I don't want to be a part of this. Don't involve me in it, please. That's kind of like taking away the current Premier League holders or the World Cup winners of a sport

out of a documentary about the sport. It kind of says, nope, don't have faith in you, don't have trusting you, I don't want to be a part of it. So therefore, why should, viewers have faith in it. Why should viewers have trust in it? If someone who is literally the focus of the whole sport for this year, turn around and go, I don't want to be a part of what you're

bringing out, I don't think it's accurate, I don't think it's true, it's not how I want to be representing. I think that really puts a negative stamp on trying to survive. So it will be a loss because I like seeing Maxisnapping in it. I think it really completed the story, but I think it's very, very mature, very brave of him to come up with the only person to be like, you know what, I disagree with how it's being done, I don't want to be a part of it. Thank you. on. Yeah, I think Netflix have lost something there. What do you make of his decision, Harry?

Yeah, like Sam said, it's not something we should be annoyed at all of these drivers and things are doing voluntarily, and back in the first year, Mercedes and Ferrari didn't take part, we didn't have either of their drivers involved in it, and

you know, didn't suffer, so I don't think that should be a worry, but I can totally understand why he's decided to do this and it's a shame especially for this year because obviously he's the one of two championship contenders so it's a shame to have lost that and interest to see how Netflix are going to cover it if they can talk to Hamilton but not Vastappen I don't know there and I guess they can still talk to Red Bull so it's just not hip-max himself but yeah I totally appreciate his decision because you know we we love watching F1 and we really enjoy the addition of

tried to survive. Some of it is really good in terms of you see extra things that you wouldn't see on a normal race weekend. Some of it's a bit comical, exaggerated, maybe insensitive at times, I don't know. But there's no doubt it's brought in a new audience. But yeah, we saw it last year with Signs and Norris and their deadly intense rivalry they had in 2020, which apparently we all didn't realize. Bitter. bitter exactly good good word yeah so we we've already seen first-hand how Netflix androids 5 has exaggerated some of those things

and you know this year in particular there's been there's been some pretty toxic moments on on social media especially between the moments between max and lewis silverstone springs to mind and maybe he just doesn't want to have any more of that wants to reduce the amount of that which is totally thing to do. So yeah, I don't think we should be, it's disappointing, but we shouldn't be disappointed at max because like I said, it's entirely his decision whether he wants to or not. So it's just a bit of a shame, especially considering the year we're having. Yeah, I think Vastappen

is perfectly entitled to his opinion on this and perfectly entitled to his decision to not take part. And the way in which he put it across was very mature. And the reasoning that he gave, again, there was no malice towards Netflix. There was no malice towards those who do take part in Drive to Survive. He just put across his own point of view and he did so in a very mature way. He said he understands the reason for Drive to Survive's existence. He understands why it exists, what it's done, particularly in America, but all around the world for bringing in new fans.

So he wasn't slamming Drive to Survive and the whole concept. he was perfectly open to what it brings to F1. He was just saying it's not for him and there are a few things that Netflix have done over the first three seasons that weren't to his liking and I think that's perfectly acceptable. For me there is a very clear distinction

and there is a tightrope almost of what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable and it was very, you know, he was very close and Netflix go very close to that one way or the other. You know, in terms of what is acceptable, in terms of drive to survive, I don't mind them dramatizing events. I don't mind them over-exaggerating things that have happened.

That's okay. It is first and foremost a, you know, it is a series to bring new Formula One fans in, and you're only going to do that. It's an entertainment show, and it's perfectly acceptable to highlight those entertaining moments and make the most of them. That's absolutely fine, and I've never had a problem with Drive to Survive doing that. On the other side of things, though,

there are a clear list of unacceptable things that Drive to Survive have done in the last few years, which means that from my side, I completely understand Max Verstappen's decision. If you look, for instance, for me, the unacceptable things they have done. Firstly, planting Team Radio from a completely different race, from even a completely different situation into a moment,

that's not acceptable because that is, that's not dramatizing, that's flat out lying. That's not what happened. And that's not acceptable. And also creating these hero and villain scenarios and not showing the full story. What they really should be doing is presenting any viewer with all of the information from both sides

so they can make their own judgments as to who they want to support, who they don't want to support. But there have been a few instances where, you know, there has been a very clear, you should support this person, you should not support this person, and just a really unfair painting. In fact, Vestappen's teammate was probably the victim of the worst incident of that. Remember back in season one,

when it was Perez versus Ocon for the Racing Point Force India Sea. Ocon was painted as a future legend of the sport, and Perez was painted as this pay driver who doesn't know what a Formula One car is. And we know that both of those are just completely untrue. And Perez was painted in a horrible light. And again, it was all due to how it was depicted by Drive to Survive. So if you're looking at those sorts of scenarios, I can completely understand why Verstappen has chosen to do this.

And we have to remember that he has a brand to protect. It's not just about him as a racing driver. But I've seen people essentially saying he needs to, you know, grow up and just get on board with it. He's got a brand to protect. He's a human being. He's got his own feelings, his own well-being to protect. There's more to it than just what's on the surface. And he's well, whilst drive to survive are going through these what I deem to be unacceptable moments.

I think he is more than entitled to walk away from it and say, I don't want to be a part of that. Something that is also part of Drive to Survive and Netflix as a whole with Formula One, there's been a lot of rumours around Netflix possibly trying to secure the rights to broadcast F-1 races live and take those rights away possibly from Sky or be a co-broadcaster. They just need to try and keep those relationships healthy and make sure they're portraying a correct story because if they are to broadcast a live race, how do we know that they're possibly not manipulating footage or airing, radios at different parts of the race

when it suits them. They need to make sure that these, you know, the elder fangs, if you want to call them, the fangs that were here before Drive to Survive who may choose to watch it on Netflix, aren't going to come back to a live broadcast and go, well, I watched Drive to Survive and I know what happens in the real life scenario

and you've altered that, so are you altering the real life thing? So if they do want to have F on broadcasting rights and they want to have long-term fans who come to Netflix for that spectatoring, to watch spectator into work, folks, who want to watch the sport on the streaming service, then they just need to try and make sure

that their reputation is in the right place, both with people who view the sport and people who are part of the sport. You don't want to lose a big stakeholder like Maxwell Stappen, who's going to be around for at least another 10 years. And really, you know, the fabrication of rivalries and events, it doesn't help anyone because what do they expect to happen? If they're trying to secure new fans in

and they're doing so based on fake rivalries that don't exist, what are they expecting to happen when they do become proper fans of the sport, then they're surely just going to be confused as to, you know, where's this rivalry that was built up on Netflix? Does it not exist? Has it simmered down since that point? It doesn't, you know, it's illogical. So you need to have that continuity plan.

Anyone who's watching Netflix and you're hoping to secure them as a long-term fan, there's got to be that continuity that the expectation has been set as to what they are joining and they are therefore going to enjoy it. And, you know, we love Formula One. We believe that it's dramatic enough as it is. You don't need to do a lot of work to it in order to get those... Think of everything that's happened this year.

We've said multiple times they're going to struggle to get everything into 10 episodes. So you really don't need to go about this fabrication of events to create rivalries between Norris and science because there's enough there as it is. You don't need that. I mean, speaking of dramatization, I've got no issue with maybe there being a diehard film taking place on the track while a race is going on or something,

you know, like a proper shoot-em-up going on. Expendables 4.0, F-1, that could take place just to spice it up a little bit. You know, sometimes it does need some more drama. Yeah, although Bernie Sage over here has already installed sprinklers and probably the fire-breathing octopus at every single Grand Prix. maybe we should do like Mario can't have things they can drive over so they can get weapons Big Shaq at every podium ceremony Big Shaq to hold up the winner over his head I'm on board with that

In terms of I mean we've seen it from Max we've seen it from Max Verstaffan's decision and his point of view and Sam you've already kind of gone into this but but Harry based on we know that season one as you've already meant to and Mercedes and Ferrari were not a part of that. Do you think how much of a loss is Max Verstappen to the overall experience of Drive to Survive? Well, like I said, I think in this year in particular, I think it's a huge loss because he's one of the title contenders.

And, you know, since Drivers of Survivor's been in operation, I don't know why I said it like that, but anyway, you know, this is the first real title fight that they've had to cover. 2018, I guess, with Vettel, but they didn't have Ferrari and or Mercedes to cover. So the title fight just wasn't covered in 2018. 19 and 20 wasn't much of a fight, to be honest. This is the first one that's probably going to go down to the wire, and they've lost one of the title protagonists.

So, you know, like I said, I guess I still have Red Ball on board. They still have Perez. They've still got Hamilton and Mercedes. But, yeah, it's a huge loss for this year at least. And, you know, maybe it'll come back. But as Sam said, it's, or one of you said, was it Sam? I can't remember. But, you know, he's going to be around for quite a long time.

And if he doesn't want to do this, then that's a big loss for the series, because you'd like to think that he's probably going to be involved in a few more title fights in the future. So, yeah, sorry Netflix, but you've lost on this one. it's a big loss. I would go as far to say that the loss of Vastappan is bigger than them not getting Ferrari and Mercedes in 2018. I think it's more

damaging to only have access to one side of a title fight. It's like if they only had Ferrari and not Mercedes in 2018 for example, I think that would be worse than having it. I would rather they only focus on the battle between McLaren and Ferrari this year and have neither Hamilton nor Vastappan rather than we just hear a bit from Hamilton

and then a little bit from Christian Horner unfortunately and then something from Perez, you know, it's just, it just comes across as a bit weird. I don't know how they're going to tell the story as well. I just, I'd just rather not see any of it now. I mean, to be fair, Christian Hall is probably going to make up for it, isn't he? I don't know. Maybe he'll sit out this year. Maybe Christian Horner won't do anything. Oh, yeah, okay. Hello, it's Alex Albon. Welcome to Williams. Oh, that's not my job. Oh, sorry. As if that's going to stop it. I just say it anyway. Exactly. I'm pretty sure. I'll put a few pounds on this.

I'm pretty sure that Christian Horner will be a part of Drive to survive. I reckon that's a safe bet. He loves it. He loves it. I have to say, I actually, overall, I disagree in terms of the loss of the Stappen. I don't actually think it will make too much of a difference. It would be good to have him, no doubt about that. But I don't necessarily think the loss of one driver, regardless of who it is,

is actually overly detrimental to the overall programme. So my own view is that referring back to season one again when Mercedes and Ferrari were not involved, I don't think the product suffered at all by not having them there. I was perfectly happy with the other eight teams. And I think actually, even though there hasn't been much of a championship battle to talk about in the last few years, the actual championship has not really been a feature of the series.

In a couple of the last series, it's almost been like, yeah, Lewis Hamilton's gone on and won the championship. well done, but it's not even been the central point of the episode. So we have to remember that Drive to Survive is not necessarily a season review. It's not a tale of these two protagonists going for the championship, which in itself would be an amazing documentary. But I think it actually sits separate to what Drive to Survive is. And even though Mercedes weren't involved in that first season,

and you've already mentioned how, you know, we've got a championship battle, or we know that Vastappen's not going to be involved from a talking head standpoint. Lewis Hamilton hasn't been that involved with it either. It's not like Lewis Hamilton has the same airtime as Daniel Ricardo has, let's say, on an average series. He generally only has a little bit to say. Generally, Mercedes have their one episode that's dedicated to them,

but they aren't overly involved outside of that. So actually, I don't think the championship is going to make up as much of a part of the overall series and I would actually rather see Vestappan and Hamilton, you know, a real tale of the season. I'd rather have that sit outside of Netflix's drive to survive because I think the two objectives would be different. I think they would be better served apart.

Just one final question on this, because I don't know, I'm just generally curious, if I almost heard any answers on it. I know that obviously Vastappan won't be there, saying a talking head context, I assume they can still use his racing footage and his team radio because it's been broadcast live by Sky Sports. Because if they don't have that, then I do think that takes away from a lot of the story. But again, I don't know.

I don't know how much of a don't involve me, Max Verstappen has said, basically. I think, isn't it just the talking head only? I would imagine. I guess they can do whatever they want with everything else because it's owned by F1. In that case, I do think the story would have been impacted. less thing. That's fine. Yeah. And like me say, I mean, even if you take that out, they've probably still got a lot to talk about. It's been a crazy couple of years for Formula One. And I'm not sure how much

you can attribute Drive to Survive, but, you know, the US Grand Prix that we've literally just had this weekend gone by, very popular, 400,000 people in attendance across the weekend. you can't convince me that driver to survive hasn't at least helped with that in some part. So I think it is from a pure acquisition standpoint, it seems to be doing it to build. Let's move on to our next topic, which is we're going to look at Mercedes. So five races to go in the championship as we record this. Mercedes, as we know, have won every single championship since 2014. That's driver's championship and constructors championship.

This is by far the biggest chance that someone has. has had Red Bull and Verstappen in this circumstance to take those titles away from Mercedes. So with five races to go, Harry, what do you think Mercedes need to do better in order to keep a hold of those two championships? Need to win a bit more, to be honest. Oh, that's a great answer that.

Tricy one. You know, we spoke about this on the review podcast that actually Mercedes is a weekend. I don't think they, you know, fluffed the strategy or anything. I guess the only thing they did get wrong in our view was, or in my view at least, was giving Bottas the engine penalty, didn't have him as backup, and that definitely aided Red Bull. But, you know, so at the weekend it was kind of just a pace thing.

But I guess in the past, this year, it has been some dodgy strategies that have not helped their chances. but yeah it doesn't seem that there's a whole lot more they can do it's just I think it's going to be one of those a bit of luck's going to be involved you know

reliability issues incidents on track or you name it I think that's going to it's got to have to play a part for Mercedes because I don't think we expected Red Bull to be quite so strong

around Cota and saying you know saying they were strong Hamilton did finish a second behind but they were still, Red Bull was still stronger, at least for Stapin and Rebel was stronger. So that doesn't bode well going into tracks where Rebel,

we think Rebel are going to be strong. So, yeah, I think just Mercedes have to be in top of their A-game when it comes to this strategy during the race. Stop giving Valtry Bottas new parts for an engine. Doesn't need any more. Having us back up. But yeah, in terms of what much more they can do, I don't really know because,

as we saw at the weekend, and they threw almost everything at it, and it still wasn't quite enough to beat the snap. And so it's going to be an interesting one. But, you know, Mercedes are, they're not seven-time war champions for nothing, so I'd trust them to be on top of their game in these last remaining five races.

Maybe that they're trying to use, as is going away present, multiple ICEs. Just there you go. Hang them up in his living. ring or something. Yeah. Where Lewis Hamilton has qualifying tires, Valtry Bottas has, I see. Almost the same thing.

What do you think, Sam? I mean, backs against the wall for Mercedes, a bit of an unfamiliar scenario. Yeah, and I think that is the issue for them. They're now an unfamiliar scenario. They don't know how to come from almost a second place. What's funny is we're speaking about what do Mercedes need to do. They're leading the Constructors' Championship. So in Mosegis' eyes, they don't need to do anything.

They need to carry on doing what they're doing. And, you know, in theory, they will carry on winging the Constructors' Championship. I think they get a bit of luck in terms of how their drivers filter out. I think Bossas probably does need to step it up a little bit in certain moments. And Nessagis would just stop giving him my CEs. But in all honestly, I think the problem is Lewis Hamilton has not been as good as we have previously seen him. and that is what's costing the saying is overall. We have seen more mistakes from Hamilton this season

than we have seen, I would argue, for the last six, seven years across one season. And I think that's where, Verstappen's dropped points has, in my opinion, not really been Verstappen's fault. I can't really find too many places where it is Verstappen's fault.

Hamilton, on the hand, the likes of Hungary, for example, he should have won that race and Claude at least 20. points over the Stapham. If that's the only result that's going to change, Hamilton will now be leading the driver's championship. The same with Baku, for example.

The Stappen, no fault of his own, into the wall due to tire issues. Hamilton leaves the Magicong, ends up not finishing the points where he had almost a guaranteed victory in his hands. That's another 25 points. At this point, Hamilton could be 35 points down the road, and he's not.

So I think that realistically, Mercedes are doing what they're doing. As a team, they are leading the construction. as a championship. They try and put both their drivers in the best place possible. They've hang a few, yeah, issues when it comes to strategy

and clearly the ICE isn't behaving as they wanted to as all the Mercedes driver cars, engine running, sorry, are taking penalties more than any other constructor here, which is very odd after what feels like six years of bulletproof reliability. But Hamilton is not beating his rival.

Botas is beating his. Hamilton is not beating Verstappen. So I think Mercedes is going to carry on doing what they're doing. putting their drivers in the best place possible, but they need to rely on the goat to go out and do what he's expected to do.

He's got five races left. There's a 14-point gap. Bigger points have been turned around in less time. So he could do it, and the car is capable, and so is the team. But I do think it's Hamilton that needs to really step up to the plate for the last five races. I absolutely see your point here, Sam.

But it's funny that your solution to this, the problem with Mercedes is that their seven-time or champions not performing right. Yeah. Louis. Get it together, man. I think out of all the people on this podcast can say that, I think I was probably the least expected to say it, but he does.

He used to pull his socks up and he needs to start getting some victories. Put your finger out, man. I'm very interested in that answer, of course. Just as a follow-up to that. Let's say hypothetically, Max Verstappen does go on to win the championship that he is

leading. Does that hurt Lewis Hamilton's legacy somewhat? is one of the absolute best of all time. Do you think that's an argument that would be used against him versus other brilliant drivers? I mean, it's an argument that's used against any title clashing driver, right? People say that Senner's the greatest of all time,

but Prost is beating him. You know, there is always that rival. There's always that moment. Hacking and Schumacher were that close, you know. There's always been those moments along so people can say he's the greatest of all time and he's come so close, so many times. Vettel four-time World Champion is now being beaten by Lecler. With every single top driver, Hamlet has already got it in Rosberg.

You know, you can argue that that was maybe a DNF issue or a reliability issue, but in the day, he didn't close out when the car was working as expected. So I do think that no driver is perfect, and of course it's a blemish on a record, if the Stappen were to beat him. Do I think it removes him from being in the context of the Greatestable Time Conversation? No. Oh, you have that many records. that many titles, that many race wings, he's got 100 race victories. You can't just be removed from the greatest of all-time discussion because a driver in a different team,

largely with a better car, has come and beat you. I don't think it's too extreme to remove him from that. But I definitely believe it does look like a blemish on the record. And it should be brought up when that discussion comes up in 10 years' time. But no, I still think he's fully in contention for that title, which can never really be bestowed upon anyone because it's purely a matter of opinion. but yeah it's definitely relevant yeah i think um overall like if you were to look at that 12 point

gap between vestappen and hamilton i would agree with what you said sam in that that's a 12 point lead for vestappen when really they've had the bigger share of bad luck you've already referenced you know the 25 lost in in back who is probably the biggest one you could of course you know it's a long season there are going to be moments of good and bad luck both ways you but look at russia for example, was Vastappen a bit lucky to finish second there? I'd say yes. But even the other way around, if you look at, you know, Silverstone, Hamilton is blamed for the collision between him and Vestappen. What's the end result? Vestappen gets no points. Hamilton wins the race. You know, you've got other situations as well where like Imola, I know where it seems ages

away, Imola, but it was this season, I promise. The incident where he was able to recover back up to P2 as a result of a red flag. So there have been elements of good luck, and still it's not enough for Mercedes and Hamilton to be leading that driver's championship at the moment. For me, in terms of what they need to do

in the last five races, really that they're in the... They are backs against the wall, and they are in the underdog scenario that they've always wanted to be in and always try to portray themselves as being in. There's some irony in this Because for the last seven years

Mercedes have tried to convince us On multiple race weekends They're the underdogs Their rivals are too fast And then they go out and win the race By 30 seconds And everyone goes Well yeah

We don't believe you But this might be the first time Genuinely speaking Looking at things saying Yeah They are the underdogs here They've got work to do In order to reclaim that ground

And I like I like to compare this to the Ferrari dynasty of the early noughties because essentially what Mercedes are trying to do, they've had this period of success for so long and they're just, they know someone's going to take it away at some point. They're just trying to extend that date. They're basically just trying to push that date back as far as they possibly can for that when someone finally beats them. And they've got a chance to do so. And it's very different. It's very different. This is where there are a lot similarities between this dynasty and the early noughties Ferrari dynasty. One area of

difference is that Ferrari could essentially do nothing about them losing their grip on the championships. They won every constructors from 99 to 04. They won every drivers from 2000 to 2004. 2005 comes around. The Bridgestone tires that Ferrari were on completely hampered them to the point that there was nothing they could do. You know, Michael Schumacher won one race in 2005, That was a race where six drivers started. They had no chance in hell in 2005. So there wasn't even really a discussion about can they keep this legacy going? Can they keep this dynasty going for just a few more years?

They were at the mercy of the Michelin tyres and ultimately Fernando Alonzo. Here, though, it's a different scenario because Mercedes do have it in their hands to keep this going for a little bit longer. And you're right, Sam, as good as Hamilton has been very good this year by normal standards. he hasn't been excellent by Hamilton standards. So he does need to step up to Vestappan's level, which sounds like a weird thing to say, but he does need to step up to where Vestappen has been all year and put the pressure on.

Hamilton's the one with the experience. Hamilton's the one who has been around for much, much longer than Vastappen, been in championship scenarios. He's had championships go down to the last day. He needs to put that to good use because maybe Vestappen doesn't, you know, maybe Vastappen doesn't yield under the pressure. Maybe Vastappen holds up to it.

I think there's a very good chance he does do that. But you've at least got to ask the question of him. You at least have to go out there and say, you know, can you perform when the pressure is at its highest? If the answer is yes, you shake the man's hand and you say, well done, well, champ. Fair enough. But you've got to ask the question in the first instance.

So, yeah, I think overall, strategically they need to be on it. Hamilton needs to be on it. They just need to deliver everything that they stand up for. You know, Toto Wolf is very vocal about the process. He's always very vocal about the no blame culture, about how they've got to be such a winning team. And, you know, I'm not saying any of those empty words, not by a long shot.

But really, those words are put to their biggest test in these sorts of moments. They might be somewhat hampered by the fact that they've coached, a lot of previous seasons where they haven't actually needed to dig themselves out of a hole. With five races to go, I know 17 and 18 was a little bit more competitive, but with five races to go, it was essentially a done deal in every single year in the hybrid era. They're actually in an unfamiliar territory now. So here's where all of that talk about the process, all about that winning culture and what you've done to cement that, this is where it's put to the test.

And whether they can live up to it, that remains to be seen. Now, you might have seen from this last race weekend, if you were watching Sky Sports in the UK or you were watching a world feed, Martin Brundel, ex-Fourn1 driver and long-time Formula One commentator and reporter, he got to do his grid walk again. It's been a long time coming, thanks to COVID.

We finally got Martin Brundall talking to celebrities and talking to drivers on the grid. And it presented somewhat of an old, issue and it proves that COVID hasn't got rid of this where Martin Brunnel has attempted to speak to people on the grid, attempted to speak to celebrities and essentially been given the proverbial middle finger. So, brings the question whether there needs to be something done here to avoid that sort of scenario happening. What are your thoughts on this, Sam? Well, boss man Brundle, I have to admire the man's confidence.

walk up to literally anyone as long as they're on a Formula One grid and go, hello, it's me, Martin. Firstly, I want to start by commenting on it was, so it's Megan the Stallion. If you don't know who that is, she is a female American rap star, incredibly popular, incredibly successful in what she does. I believe she was there to promote a brand deal. Now, she has every right to walk down that grid. If she's there, you know, as part of a company brand deal,

or if she's just paid her way on there, whatever it may be. She's got every right to be there. And she's got every single right to not want to talk to people. That is also fine. There is no mandatory thing you have to sign that says every time a journalist walks up to me on the grid, I have to stop and have a conversation. And I think it should stay that way, right? You can't force people into having a conversation with you.

But I do feel like they need to make Martin's life a little bit easier. The poor man is having to walk up to literally people he barely knows and go, Hello, Megan, can you do a freestyle rap about F1 for us? Which, albeit it's hilarious to watch him ask, but it's also a slightly difficult thing for the celebrity to turn around and go, well, no, I don't have a rap for you about F1, sorry, I'm trying to enjoy my day out. Security should be more polite. We're all in a confined space.

He is branded by Sky Sports, and I believe security teams should be briefed on the lead journalists that are going to be walking up and down the grid and they should be given, you know, face IDs of those people, they should be branding before they go into the grid to go, look, if this slightly stout British man walks up to you with a metre long microphone and starts trying to talk,

he is live on Sky Sports TV, he is loved by the entire viewership of this sport, if you don't want to talk, just politely say no, thank you. I also feel, and this is a silly way to brand it, I also feel like, have you ever walked around busy place and you've seen a dog being walked, right? And they've got a different coloured

lead on. And that league says nervous. I'm a nervous dog, right? I think maybe a lanyard for these celebrities that just go, you know what? I don't want to talk to Trey Press today. So I just get like a yellow lanyard or like a pink lanyard that's just

Ben's come. Ben's waving his hands because Sam's just suggesting we put celebrities on a leash on the grid. Not literally on a leash, but just I'm a nervous celeb. Yeah.

They might be. They might be. And I, you know, there are people and they have every right to say, no, thank you,

to not always be approached. They might be there because they love Formula One and they just want to walk around Lewis Hamilton's car or whatever, enjoy being in Formula One. And just because you're famous doesn't mean you have to have

a camera thrust in your face every two seconds. And I'm completely agreeing with that. They deserve their own space. But there does need to be a physical barrier or a notion of, oh, Ben Stiller's got a green land yard on.

At any point, he's okay if we're politely going to walk up to him and go, hey, Ben Stiller, Mr. Zoolander, along came Polly, meet the Fokkers. How are you doing? You're like Formula One, let's have a chat. And that should be fine. And I think there needs to be some kind of system there. Because I think Megan the Stanley hand will get completely fine. She was a bit awkward, but a bit polite, and she kind of walked off.

But the celebrity, the celebrity bounces, the protection, really came across poorly. and they looked a bit aggressive and a bit insensitive and a bit rude, and I think that needs to maybe be balanced, because I felt sorry for a bit, Martin. I also just want to comment on the one line of, I can do that because I just did. And that is just such boss man Brundel attitude. I absolutely love it.

I want literally a cutscene of him to stop, go black and white, the black sunglasses to come down over his eyes. It's the, you know, swear words, Martin Brundle. He's elected, and I loved how we did it. Martin. it does a brilliant job and it is a hard job but yeah there needs to be something that helps him and other interviews from other countries and whatnot

on the grid because it is a tough one so yeah I mean there's not much you can change because you can't sign a contract that makes them speak to people or whatnot but yeah I have a nervous celebrity Lanyard might be a nice start there we're all now everyone

I've got a nervous sign that I've just Ben stuck a nervous sign on his head. There we go. Nervous Ben. There is actually a serious point that I'm mostly on board with, but it's just the leash reference, which is fantastic. Harry, what do you think?

Because I know we're using, the reason it's been bought up is as a case of what happened at the weekend, but this isn't a new issue. So, you know, we're speaking about this from a, from a wider stance rather than just what happened this weekend. But what are your views on celebrities in general and how that should be handled? Leash, mate.

Yes. No. It's a tricky one. And there are some celebs who were on the grid, Ben Stiller, Roy McElroy, delighted to talk to Martin Brundel. And I guess anyone who came up for an interview, and it must be said that

I guess the problem here wasn't Megan the stallion to begin with she was very polite in that after her bouncer tried to knock Martin over she would like sort of battered his hand away his line of questioning was a bit weird which should help the situation I don't think but it was all a bit messy and that other

I don't know it wasn't a bouncer just a bit of the other Rayco Malfoy turned up I don't know. I've turned up. Called Martin a mudblood and then walked off. Yeah, those sort of people. You know, there just should be some... That's just, you know, good manners.

Doesn't even have to be in the world of F1. You know, making the standing with being polite. You don't need people around you that are being arses. But yeah, it's a tricky one. I can understand why some celebs don't want to be bombarded by, interviews whilst are on the grid, you know, Rory Macaray, I think, was just there for a good time, but he was still perfectly happy to speak to Brundle.

But in terms of celebs in general, I don't know whether there's some sort of briefing that needs to be done beforehand, but I think the thing for me is I'd rather see, I'd rather see fans on the grid than celebs. I mean, there are a lot of celebs this weekend. I get why he was the US GP, but there must be so many fans,

three of them sat here. it would give their right or left arm to be on an F1 grid just before it lights out. And it would be delighted if Martin Brundall came up and asked them how their weekend was going. So, yeah, I totally get why celebrities on the grid. You know, it's a bit of coverage for whoever team they're with. And I totally understand it. But I think, you know, there's better uses for grid passes. Give them to a worthy fan.

You know, we had the grid kids. I know COVID's put kibosh on that, but the grid kids was a nice initiative for that. So yeah, I think there's other solutions here. I'm not saying ban celebs. Sam says, build them on a leash. I'm just saying ban them. Ben, I don't know where you're going to go with this.

But anyway, I just think there's other uses for grip passes. Yeah, and if you do want to take these free fans to a grid near you and you have the connections to make that work, please do. we're literally any grid literally any grid yeah

snathston don't care yeah more than happy Castle Coom if you're listening Benjamin I'm kidding

johnny herbert's favorite circuit of course I'm not gonna not he's not he doesn't he live in the cottage in the niggily

that's a very niche LB reference that is oh man oh I hope you guys that'll be excellent

I'm not going there any grid without my nervous sign. It's not happening. Let us Ben, please don't talk to him. Yeah. I understand why celebrities are on the grid. I understand that they are probably overall

a net positive for Formula One in terms of what they can bring in terms of a wider fan base that wouldn't normally have any interest in Formula One at all. Maybe that can be the spark for some of them to get interested. I understand why it's a net positive to have celebrities. I would agree with the point you made, Harry,

in terms of having regular fans on there, because you're right, a lot of these celebrities, and I'm not going to say all of them because it's not true, but a significant percentage of these celebrities are not really Formula One fans. Some of them don't care whatsoever. Some of them do care. So it is important to not to put them all under that same brush, but I don't know why they have to be mutually exclusive.

I don't understand why you can't just have both. I understand in COVID times, it might be a bit more difficult, but I don't think a fan having a position on the grid should necessarily stop a celebrity and vice versa. So I think there's definitely room for both. I'm not going to go ahead with the nervous leash solution on this, surprisingly. But I do agree with the wider point of if a, celebrity is on the grid and they don't want to be talked to. First of all, I think I'm not necessarily

saying that they should always be willing to talk. I understand that. If you're on a grid and there's the opportunity to, I think it should be encouraged in the first instance, but it should not, it should not be mandatory. But it just needs to be made known beforehand. You're right. It just needs to be a case of Martin Brundall needs to know, don't speak to that person. And the other person is then safe in the knowledge that they're not going to get accosted by someone they don't know. Because it doesn't look good for anyone. It doesn't look good for the person interviewing because it makes it look like a bit of a joke. It doesn't look good for the celebrity because they can come across as rude or even if they don't come across as rude. They can become, they can come across

as rude by proxy of the people that they're surrounded by as we saw this weekend. So it doesn't really benefit anyone when you get into that sort of situation. So there just needs to be be that level of communication that Martin knows who to speak to and knows who not to speak to. But I think wider, in terms of a wider point here, celebrities do need to understand, they do need to recognize what an absolute privilege

it is to be on a grid. And you're right, there are fans that would give an arm and a leg to be there and they get there mainly do on status. And that's perfectly fine. I'm okay with that. And even if you're not a man, massive F1 fan. That's absolutely fine as well. But you at least need to be understanding of you're walking into a new arena. You're walking into a way that Formula One does things and you need to be

respectful and you need to have manners, which I think is the point that Martin was really getting across is that you know, you don't have to be the chattyest person. You don't need to stand there giving 10 minutes of analysis on the last race. You just need to be courteous of the people doing their jobs around you and that's enough for me you know i've i didn't in the covid era really miss celebrities being on the grid you know it really doesn't matter too much to me whether they're there or not but i think there is a necessity for them to be understanding of of the overall show and they need to realize they're because they're on the grid they're a part of that and should be respectful of everyone around them i'd tell you who i loved seeing on the grid who i don't believe is a big

F1 fan, but I know there are a bit of Lewis Hamilton fan, is Will Smith. I know he went all out, and we saw him operating the camera at one point. I'm not over that. I don't say everyone needs to be like that, but I love that he just embraced being there, and he was like, I'm having a laugh, I'm having fun, I'm being positive, you don't have to run up to the cameraman and do their job for them, that's not the point I'm necessarily making, but he had a good time. As you fair, I think Wigie Harlow, who is a supermodel, was there this weekend,

and there's photos of her with all the W-series crew and stuff like that, which I think is really positive and really good. She got involved, and that's all I want. That is all I want to see, just get involved. Enjoy it, as you said there, as you said, Harry, it is such a privilege to be on that grid. There is such a limiting amount of time and people that get to walk down a Formula One grid, and I would give so much of my life to get the opportunity to do it,

and they get to do it based on status. even seeing a lap of Formula One before so you're right just embrace it have some fun be positive that's that is all I want to see it's a it's a shame that they didn't give Winnie Harlow the check of ladditches again because I'm the mile one

in my next to lap 20 laps early that was clarified though that that was not actually Winnie Harlow's fault at the Canadian no years ago she got told by the race operator in the wrong lap yeah

yeah and I'm I agree with your point, Sam, on the enthusiasm. And you're right that it was good that Will Smith really embraced it a few years ago. I'm still not over the amount of camera time that man got on that race weekend. I appreciate it probably were thinking beforehand, right, Will Smith wants to come to a race this year and do a really, really funny. I've got a go, man. Sketch with Lewis Hamilton.

If you remember that one. Let me out, Will, I got a race. They were probably looking at all of the races that year thinking, oh, what's the race where the least amount of things would all happen so we can actually get him on? Let's do Abby Davy. Nothing will be happening there. So I could probably understand the reasoning that it was that race.

Shall we get on to what is without a doubt the worst jingle that we have for a segment? This is F1, fill in the black. F1. Phil in there? He's Phil. Rebel. So many questions.

Who is Phil? Why is there the animal noise in there? There really isn't any need for it. But how does the music tie in? There are so many questions. And we have no answers for you, listeners. None whatsoever. It's like someone is falling onto a control panel of sound effects.

They've all kind of played at the wrong moment together. And that's now the theme song. It's like, um, when, you're doing, this might be a very British reference, but it's like when you're, you've got the keyboards in front of you in, uh, in music, like when you're sort of 13, 14 years old, uh, and you've got all of the different like DJ button. DJ. That is a, that is probably a very niche British reference. I appreciate British reference of the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Come on. We've, we've managed to lose everyone outside of Britain. Um, so we're not left with many at this point. But

So our entire audience. Pretty much. F1 fill in the blank. So we've got three sentences that, as you can probably guess by the title, comprise currently of a blank. We will fill them in as we see necessary. So you'll see as we go. The first one, the drivers still in contention for driver of the season are blank.

And this might change depending on if there's only one answer possibly. But Sam, what would you fill in the blank with here? I have four games. Some are closer to driver of the season than others, but I still believe they are in contention. Max Verstappen, Charles LeClaire, Lando Norris,

and Pierre Gassley are the four drivers that I think, especially the likes of Gisley put in an absolute stellar final five races, maybe a podium in there or something. Those four could all go on to win driver of the season, because they've all been phenomenal,

really, really phenomenal, and outshon. And I would argue that Carlos Sines is unlucky to not be, including in that group. But those four for me are right at the top. Harry, the drivers that are still in contention for driver of the season are blank. I'm going to half sound driverless.

I'm just going to go for Maxi Vestamp and Lando Norris. LeCla is in a very close third. I think there's too many mistakes from him this year. But he's been very good. But I think the only two in my view that are driver of the year contenters are those two. I think Vestappen's just edging it slightly at the moment, but they've been

excellent all year. Yeah, I am going to agree with Harry. I've got two names and they are Vestappen and Lando Norris. For me at the moment, Vestappen is the favourite and Lando Norris would probably even need to be exceptional for the rest of the year to win it or Vestappen might need to make a few mistakes.

I would agree with Chal LeClaire and Lewis Hamilton are battling for third with Pierre Gazley then in fifth. But yeah, I think it's all it's pretty close between the top two. I think Vastappen's got the edge for me, but at the moment I can only see one of those two being my driver of the season.

Next one, coming up for you. In the last five races of the season, Sergio Perez will get blank podiums. Harry. Two. Got no reason behind it.

Which ones? Oh, Mexico, because I just want to see that. Twice. Twice. And Brazil. Mexico and Brazil. So two out of five. Yeah, it'll go for four in a row.

There you go. And then he's just had enough at that point. Ah, bored. Bored at that point. Fair enough. He's bored to be in the disruptor. He can't be bothered anymore. And out of interest, just before we go on Sam's one.

one. Either of those two wins? Oof. Unless it's, unless Verstappan's out of the race, then no. If Stappan's out of the race, then yes, it could be. But I don't, I don't, if, if it's, somehow Perez is in the lead and Vestappan is nearby or in second place,

I think they'll try everything they can to get max the maximum, max the maximum points. All right, Sam, two podiums in his last two races, three podiums for the year overall, but in the last five races of the season, Sergio Perez will get blank podiums. I am going to agree with Harry and say two, but I am going to differ the races slightly.

I believe that Mexico will be won, and I hope the entire nation celebrates with a week-long holiday. And I think the other one actually will be Qatar. Perez adapts well, I think that the track is actually quite an odd one and I think it might suit Red Bull so I'm hopeful that he's going to deliver in Qatar so yeah Mexico and Qatar and if it's

going to win anywhere then fingers crossed it's Mexico because I'll celebrate I'll have a week off just for him because that'll be bloody lovely didn't Mexico implode in our review podcast I know didn't implode didn't implode not literally

okay emotionally implode Okay, I'm just looking out for the next race, making sure that that does actually go ahead before I give my prediction here. I'm going to be a bit more generous to Sergio. I'm going to say he'll get three podiums. And I'll go with Mexico, Brazil and Abu Dhabi for the three that he'll get them at. I do think he's turned a corner. I really do. If you look at what happened.

Turned a few corners. You know what? He turned about 20 corners at the circuit of the Americas, and then he did it about 50 times. you've got to give him credit for that. That's his job. Yes, almost as if it's his job. It's been a tough season in parts for Perez. Before Turkey, he only had one podium.

But again, I do think he's turned a corner here because if we look at what happened at the circuit of the Americas, it was a bit of a weird one, in that the race was probably his least promising part of the weekend, which is usually the opposite to how it works. He led two of the three practice sessions. He was on the pace throughout those. And then in qualifying, he was on Vestappen's pace or very close to it,

pretty much all the way throughout, which isn't something we've really seen all year. Now, in the race, it didn't go to plan and you can, you know, you can make the argument that he wasn't at 100%, so maybe that had something to do with it. But in terms of qualifying pace, that's something we haven't seen so far. So it does point to the fact that Perez is getting, he's not on Vestappens level, he's not close.

but he's getting there in a more reliable second role. So he just needs to, you know, beat Bottas a few times and he's got a couple of podium. So I'll go with three. And the last one that we have, Lewis Hamilton should feel blank heading into the last five races, Sam. I'm going to go with relaxed in the last five races.

Not relaxed in the sense of, hey, I'm having a good time. Nothing's bothering me, but Lewis Hamilton is at his best when he is calm, he's relaxed, and he's not stressing out. I feel like this season, he has buckled a little bit under the pressure. We saw how long it took together 100 races, and I feel like Lewis is going to simmer down, enjoy it, really a feel at one with the car, and I do think he, we know he could deliver. He's got the most race wings of anyone of all time. We know he's capable of doing it.

So I feel like if he just relaxes, gets a bit loosey-goosey, shakes out all the stress. I think he's got a real chance of still winning this title. The saying he's clearly leading one championship. Why can't a driver lead the other? So, yeah, I think he needs to just be relaxed in the last five races. Hi, Lewis, it's Bono. Could you explain why you're swerving down the straight? That isn't part of the plan.

Lucy Goosey, Bono! Lucy Goosey, baby! It's Lucy Goosey time. just plays great music over his radio for the whole race Bono, me a lucy goosey Anyway, so he should feel relaxed heading into the last five races Harry, Lewis Hamilton should feel blank

heading into the last five races Similar thinking, but I was going to go with confident You know, he's Lewis Hamilton He's a seven-time world champion He's been in this situation before, you know, 2008, 2016, most notably. And, you know, he knows the deal. So, yeah, I think he should just be confident in his own abilities. Can't do much more than his own performance.

If the car's not up to scratch and the car's not to scratch, but he's confident in what he can do. Yeah, and I'm going to say he should be determined going into the last few races of the season. for similar reasons that you've given, really. Yes, in terms of points, he's the underdog. And we've already referenced how, you know, going up against another team, another driver, if he doesn't end up winning,

it might not look great on him. But actually, it's high risk, high reward. If, when this is all said and done, he beats Max Verstappen, he beats the next generation of driver in very similar cars in terms of performance. That looks very good on him. And that, you know, he's had to work for this championship

if he goes on to win it. Not saying he hasn't had to work for other ones, but due to the car performance, it hasn't really been a battle going into the last five races where it clearly is here. So it could do a lot for him as well as it could go against him as well.

So I think he should be determined. You're right, he's been in these sorts of scenarios before. He knows how good he is. He has no doubt about that whatsoever. And he just has to go in with the impression of Max Verstappen needs to win this championship. I'm not. going to lose it for you.

If you can handle the pressure, if you can go on and win the championship with every effort that I can throw at you, fair enough, but I'm going to test you. And if you're not up to that test, I'm going to pick up my eighth title. So he should feel confident, he should feel relaxed, and he should be determined.

I think that's a good end, isn't it? Yeah. Probably put a cap in there. Yeah, that'll do for a podcast, weren't it? Probably do. Yeah. I mean, it was scarily good, dang it, because it's Halloween. I was going to say, because Halloween.

Nice. Yeah, we should have done some sort of Halloween segment thinking about it, but, you know, we don't think about these things. That's what you pay for, guys. We're losing to pay for. Go on eat off-the-cuff, Halloween puns. Oh, no. Related to F-1.

Get in the Discord. get in the Discord and let us know your favourite puns related to F1 and Halloween, and the best one wins absolutely nothing. If someone could also remix Ben in a song going, get in the Discord, I would be very happy. As would I. I'm more than on board with that. Get in the Discord.

Can add it to the soundboard that we've got on here. Since we did finish the fill in the blank segment, and because it is such a good theme song, I think I've just got to play it one more time. F1. Phil in the... Who's Phil? It's genuinely tragic.

I feel sorry for Phil. It's so bad. No one's ever going to know who he is. No. It's Phil. The question... Who knows? The question remains...

Do you know of Phil? I feel like we should leave on that cliffhanger, Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of it. Folks, it could be your friend slash family member. Who knows? Ask them. Maybe they do know.

There is going to be no podcast this weekend. Very, very sad and scary times because it is a weekend without a Formula One race. But we'll be back next weekend, of course. Not next weekend. Next week where we preview the Mexican Grand Prix. You never know, Sergio Perez might just send the entire nation into hysteria. We hope so. It'll be absolutely fantastic to watch.

Make sure you join us next week, of course, of both the preview and the review. If you'd like to see a bit more of us throughout the week, as Ben said get in the Discord We'll be there all week chatting to everyone well over 200 massive Formula 1 fan

now chatting, learning having fun lots of great content in there I'm also really busking for a wee so you know what I've been Samuel Sage I've been Ben hocking

I've been nervous Ben and remember keep being nervous God we're loose and goosey baby let's get some leashes for it or join the team at sport-ssocial.co.com. Cast is part of the Sport Social Podcast Network.