The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Fernando Alonso still world champion material? | Episode 153

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

If Fernando Alonso has a car worthy of his talents in 2022, can he challenge for a championship? The LB trio are here to discuss this, plus a possible Andretti takeover of Sauber, and they play a game of F1: Higher or Lower.JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This podcast is part of the Sport Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very well welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast. presented by me, Ben Hocking, Sam Sage and Harry Ead. What did you have for tea, Sam? Sossy Cass.

It's not much quality dinner. I'm having it again. Unbelievable. If they all would like to send me their saucy cass, sausage casserole for those who I like them, I'll happily sample a little bit of saucy cass. If we ever do a meat and greet, please bring a bowl of hot, preferably.

Sossy Cass, I don't like it cold. so formula one anyone I think that's up there with one of our better introductions to a podcast if we're being this is what happens folks we have a little countdown that goes 6 5 4 321 and in that time Sam just goes you never guess what I have to be

and then this is how we are here right now and this is why you're having to listen to saucy cast talk it's always my fault it's always my fault Soffy Cass Corner we should call it Hashtag Sossy Cass. If you'd like a piece of merch that says hashtag Sossie Cass, we'll work it out. Who would want that?

Someone will want it. Someone in the lovely Discord will want it. My mum likes Sossy Cass. I get her a t-shirt that says hashtag Sossie Cass. Big question, though. Of all the F1 drivers on the grid, who would make the best Sossy Cass? Oh, I reckon Fernando. You reckon?

I reckon he'd just be great fun in the kitchen. He'll just laugh at you. Like he doesn't have. that car in that meme, you know, he was in the McLaren outfit. And he's like, ha ha ha ha ha. He's like, stop talking to me immediately. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned Fernando Alonzo in that because he is going to make up the bulk of our lead topic today. That will be coming up in just a couple of minutes time. We are going to be talking about the potential for Andretti buying Salva,

whether that could happen. Antonio Gervinazzi, staying with that team, ignored team orders at the weekend. We'll be discussing what that might mean for that second alpha Romeo's seat, which they might not actually end up announcing at this rate. They might have just forgotten about it. And we'll also be playing F1 higher or lower to round out the show. But first of all, we are going to look at Fernando Alonso. So he's returned to Formula One this year. We've now seen quite a few races from him, 16 to be exact at this point in time. 2021, so 15 years since he won his second world championship. Seems crazy and he's obviously just turned 40 years old as well. So time not necessarily on his side.

Sam, based on what you've seen this year, based on what you know about the great man, do you think he has the potential to win a third world title if he can get the car? I don't want him to win a third world title because he'd lose the two-time world champ dance. And it's one of my favourite things in all of the world. is the two-time World Championship does.

Fernando, Alonkso, he's starting a little bit slow, and we thought, hang on a minute, Espan Okon, mate, you're absolutely wiping the floor with Fernando here. What's going on? We knew he was probably going to be up to the usual pace that he's displayed in his previous days, but we didn't think that the gap was going to be so big. And then we got about four or five races into the season,

and Fernando just went, okay, you've had a head start, I'll have a go now. And all of a sudden, he's deciding that he's going to literally drive on every single inch of every track, drive around all of you, you know, take out, make sure you. Macca in the process and give him a cuddle. It's been a very, very fun season.

That outside move in the Dutch Grand Prix when he just went all the way around the outside was absolutely wonderful. When he decided that turned two in Russia wasn't a thing, you know, absolutely wonderful. I think for Daniel Alonkso still got it. What's crazy? It's the same as Lewis Hamilton, I think. I don't think Alonso is at 100%.

I don't think that Alonkso is driving at his peak anymore. And I think that if you were to say, is Lewis Hamilton at 50% good enough to be on the F1 grid? I'd probably say, yeah, he is. Do I think Fernando Oloxor at maybe like 60-70%, which what I think he's at, about 70% of what he could be, is good enough to maybe go on to win a title

if he was giving a front-winning car? Scarily enough, yeah, I think he would absolutely get the fire in him. We know how much that man loves winning. He does not care about anything but being number one. So Fernando Olox, in 2022, my friend, And if you get a championship, you can have the sixth best car. If there's somehow a sniff of multiple race wings,

he'll do it. Remember Ferrari, folks, he somehow did that. I genuinely think that Fernando could be a championship threat at any given moment across time, not in the next two or three years, but forever because he's that terrifying in a Formula One car. Yeah, Fernando 100%. I want him to win a title.

I think it'll be amazing if it happens again. And he still definitely has the ability. We've seen some fantastic displays of strategy, pace, overtaking maneuvers. He's still got it, folks. He's still got it. So you're saying Alonzo versus Reichenen

for the next 40 years. That's how it's going to go down. Formula One. I'm hoping Hackingham also comes out of his sabbatical for it. Believe he will. Jack, at some point. Yeah, he's got to at some point.

He's leaving it a while, but it'll get to it, I'm sure. Harry, we know how you are the king of the Fernando Alonso fan club. So, do you think that Fernando Alonzo again, given the right car, does he have the potential to win a championship? Tricky one.

I think Sam was spot on in saying that, yeah, he gave people a bit of a head start this year, but then he has fully come on some in terms of the Fernando Alonzo we all know and love. What I think he is perhaps lacking now is just the tiniest bit of raw speed when it comes to qualifying. Although that being said, he was never actually the most outrageous qualifier to begin. with he wasn't known for getting a load of pole positions he's always been his racecraft but i think maybe he has lost that slightly but what he has lost i think he again still can make up for uh with his his racecraft skills whiliness um that we've seen a lot this

his and his hair yeah sure fantastic he makes up what his shouted hair like damn his hair um Yeah, so I think, yeah, and you know, I think Hungary is the best example of where if you give him or get him in a position where I know he wasn't actually fighting for the race win, but in a position where, you know, it's that competitive on a podium level, he will fight you, tooth and nail. It doesn't matter if you are a seven-time world champion, i.e. Lewis Hamilton behind you. He doesn't care because he'll just keep you behind for about 20 laps. So, yeah, I think does he have enough over a whole season? Really difficult. I think maybe that little lack of speed in calling now might hurt him to actually win a title. But there is no doubt in my mind that if the Alpine is anywhere near good,

he'll be a nuisance in Mercedes and Red Bull's side next year. If it's capable of winning a title, I'm not saying it will be. But, yeah, if it's anywhere near that, then he'll just be in the race. just be like to them, to Mercedes and the other top guys, it'll be like the most in the way human being on the planet, I think.

Every time you're looking in your mirror and there'll be like a little blue wasp in your mirrors and it's Fernando Alonso. Just buzzing it along. Carnova. Get out of the way, man. Yeah, exactly. Shouting karma at you. So yeah, so whether that he could turn that all into a

third world champion, championship, who knows, but he's definitely got the racing now still left in him, I think. Firstly, I think it's pretty commendable from Alonzo's perspective that we can talk about him winning a championship in 2006, his second world title, and then over 16 years later, or 15 years later this year, obviously 16 years next year, that amount of time we can still debate him having the quality to win another championship. How many drivers have actually had careers that have lasted 16 years, let alone being competitive enough to win a championship on either end of it?

So the longevity of Alonzo, it definitely deserves respect. And he's managed to, you know, he's come back at the age that what he is, obviously 40 years old, he's older than everyone, apart from Kimi Reichen, and he's, you know, about 20 years younger than him. But other than that, he's got, he's got the age on everyone. but and also being away for a couple of years as well that really doesn't help at any point let alone at this point in his career so the fact that he's come back and he's still competitive you know he's definitely competitive that's not up for debate here it's just about whether

that he's got that next step again you're right in what you say that he started out the season pretty slowly and i think we can excuse him for that you know he was always going to start slowly. Even a world champion like him is going to need time to adjust. Everyone noticed that. Apart from Alpine, who decided that Esteban Okon beating him for a few races was

enough to give him a 17 year contract. But you don't regret that one, Alpine. No, it's not like we don't have any quality juniors waiting to come up in Formula 2. Let's give Ocon a great contract because he's beaten Alonzo when he's been out for a couple of years. That decision is looking worse and worse.

That decision is looking worse and worse by the week, I'm afraid. No disrespect to Ocon whatsoever, who is good enough for Formula One, but good enough for a long-term deal. I don't know about that. And Fernando Alonzo has regained the advantage as the season has come on. He's been very consistent. Out of the 16 races this year, Alonzo has scored in 11 of them, which is a fairly similar number to Ocon, to be fair. O'Con has had 10 race scores, whereas Alonzo has had 11, so there really isn't much in it. But what separated them is those slightly higher scores.

Now, Alonzo holds a 12-point lead over Ocon, despite the fact that O'Conn has a race win and Alonzo doesn't. If you take away that race win for Esteban O'Con, he doesn't have another top seven finish, whereas Alonso, I think, has four of them. So Alonzo's doing better in terms of getting those higher position finishes, and I don't want to disrespect Esteban O'Con. He did a good job in Hungary, but he got lucky to be in that spot. What cost Fernando Alonso, the race win, I believe, in Hungary, was the fact that he qualified too well.

And he was caught up in the incidents that happened with bowling ball, Bottas and bowling ball ball stroll. So he got caught up in that, leaving Ocon and a few other drivers who were on the right side of the grid, Vettel, of course, being the other main beneficiary. He walked into that, Esteban Ocon. And yes, he still had to take advantage of it, sure. but if Alonzo is in that spot, he does the same thing. And Alonso has been impressive this season.

Hungary is a weird one. In the Ocon won his first ever race, Alpine won a race when they are the fifth or sixth fastest car this year. And you can very easily make a case to say that Ocon wasn't the best driver in his own team on the day where he won a race. Alonzo was that good in defending against Lewis Hamilton. But it's not only that, yeah,

Netherlands was a great result. Not just the move as well. I think he finished P6 that day. So he was good, the whole Grand Prix. Russia probably deserved a podium or very close to a podium. Got caught out by the decision late on. Going back a bit more, but Portugal, you might remember. He made a very good recovery to finish P8 in that race.

So there have been good moments, no doubt about that whatsoever. And we have got a very good Fernando Alonzo. So everyone asked the question coming into the year, would we get a prime Alonzo, would we get a good Alonzo, would we get a bad Alonzo? No one really knew. And I think overall we've got a very good Alonso.

I don't believe we've got Alonzo that is good enough to win a world championship, though. And I do believe that the reason. Sorry. Boo. I mean, I'm kind of making the same point as you, Harry, to be honest, but you just half, right, okay. You sheep.

if Sam told you to jump off a cliff would you do it Harry no don't listen to Sam because he probably would say that for a joke but I don't I believe he is a very good version of himself but he's not the version that left F1 a few years ago yeah not talking about you Sam if we're talking

let's talk his Ferrari years Alonzo's Ferrari years as you've already brought up Sam were incredible. What he did to the nearest driver to ever win a world championship in Felipe Masa and a former world champion in Kimi Rikinen, so impressive. He destroyed Massa four years in a row. Kimi Rikinen had no chance against him when he joined up for a year. He took 11 wins for Ferrari in his time. His teammates accumulated for zero in the same period of time. No Ferrari driver ever got a win over him when he was their teammate. And I actually think it is the raw pace reason, which is why I just don't think he's quite

gone enough. I think the fire is still there, the consistency is still there, and there is a fighter gene about Alonzo. There's a quality that I think about 15, 16 drivers on the grid do not have. He has that, and I still think he does have that. But there's no substitute for raw pace. You absolutely have to have it. And he still got it to an extent, but just not enough for me. He's 9-7 against Doccon in qualifying, which, you know, he's winning, which is one thing. And he's been fine in qualifying. Don't get me wrong.

But this is a guy that, again, destroyed Massa and Reichen. He had a very good season against Jensen Button qualifying. He made Stoffel Van Dorn look awful when we know for a fact he definitely wasn't. And, I mean, Nelson P.K., he managed to beat him 18-0. Nelson P.K. won three world championships I'll have, you know. Yeah, can we just... It's a stat man there. Might be a different one.

Oh. Point remains, though. You're right, Harry. He was never an epic... He wasn't a Rikinen qualifier in the mid-Norties. He was never Lewis Hamilton in terms of qualifying, I don't think. But he was still a very, very good qualifier. And I think he's taken a step down from that.

if he was in a world championship or if he was in a race winning car yes you're right he would be a nuisance he would appear at the absolute wrong time for all the drivers he would he would he would be that wasp but he wouldn't be a winning wasp is my point

is any was a winning wasp or Jordan 1998 I suppose there you have it nice and 99 I guess and Brazil 03 sorry if we've spoiled those race results for anyone who is going through the historic Grand Prix there's someone who's probably come out of a coma and is watching every single race

one after the other and you've just ruined it for that person. Yeah, I mean, if you've been in a coma since 1998 and the first thing you've done is one, listen to this podcast and two, watch the 1998 F-1 season. Firstly, you should be on the podcast with us. Secondly, get a life. Come on. Yeah, I don't know. Just staying on Alonzo for a little bit longer, Sam, in your view, based on what you've seen,

what do you think he still does incredibly well? What have you been impressed by in terms of his actual qualities, how they stack up based on his first stint in F1? Fernando Aloncso was always amazing. I guess you guys have used the wasp an allergy. It's kind of the wily old fox now, isn't he? He's able to wrangle things out of nowhere. And I think the Dutch Grand Prix was probably the biggest example of this, where everyone was fully aware of it when it started to have.

and it clicked for everyone at the end of the Grand Prix, where we had Ocon come over the radio. He's so slow. Let me go through. He's so slow. Oh, God, he's holding us up. And they go over to Alonso's radio. Fando, you're going quite slow.

He's like, yeah, I'm doing it on purpose. Just give me 40 laps, and you'll see. 40 laps go by. And alongside those four cars up the road, and he's having a fantastic result. And where's O'Cong? Who cares? Because he's not going to let's go to a longsail anymore.

Alonso's ability to manage a race is spectacular. He can manage his tyres, he can manage his pace, he knows when to push a car. And the man is quite possibly the best defensive driver I've seen in Formula One for a long time. I think he might be better than Hamilton defensively, I guess maybe with the issues that have come up with the album moving and the Staffan wheel to wheel to what side of the things you sit on.

You might not see Hamilton as a great will-to-will defender. I personally think he's very good, Alongso, I think, might even be better than the seven-time world champion at defending on track. And that was displayed, and already spoken about in Hungary, the fact that he kept Lewis Hamilton behind him, that were saying he for that long, the pace it demonstrated on that racetrack was absolutely phenomenal. And also, every single trick in the book he pulled out. I don't know if you guys can remember, I know you two can, but those listening, that move where Hamilton was plummeting down to turn one, and Alonso just went, oh, I think I forgot to accelerate for just half. for second and now you can't get enough of the run out of the corner because you're stuck behind me going into turn it's just it's so clever and that's what a longso i think still goes

brilliantly well he's so intelligent behind the wheel of the car so yes i think you're right when you say he hasn't got the absolute outright a hundred percent pace that he used to have but his strategy his strategic driving the intelligence behind the car and his race starts are still absolutely phenomenal even silverstone was another one as well he was brilliant there as well So I think the guy is still a magician behind the race wheel. I still think that if you put me in a race wing car, he could still pull out some absolutely incredible performances. I wouldn't count him out.

I never would. What is really a massive shame, and you would have heard this if you were listening along to pump the brakes a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, Alonzo does now have to retire from Formula One because of Harry's age limits that he's implemented. So sorry about that, Fernando. Harry's kicking you out. is he the exception to the rule because he's Fernando Alonzo

correct him and Kimmy yeah everyone else though it remains the same I mean somewhat related to that maybe not down to his age but he was out of Formula One for a couple of years do you think Harry that other drivers who might have had absences from Formula One do you think their chances of returning have actually been enhanced as a result of what Alonzo's done this year he took a few races to get going but

it wasn't too long right I mean yeah it wasn't too long although you know he's he's a fairly special driver in that in that sense I guess well who do you have in mind Ben who might fancy a comeback Jedson Budden Holkenberg Rubber's back hello

Big Rosberg Big Rosberg Big Ros I think Ros could still come back I'm not saying you will but I'm saying I think he could come back and be fine yeah I mean you know it's not people other drivers are going to look at it

go, well, it's doable. It was difficult for a few races. It might tell me a few races longer than Fernando Alonzo, but, you know, it's doable. I don't know. I don't know if he's, you know, out there inspiring retired F-1 drivers in the old people's home to jump back in their overalls and jump back in a race car. But, yeah, I don't know if it proves F-1's too easy. I think it actually just proves

what a good driver Fernando Alonso is that despite having two years out amidst be doing other things but, you know, it didn't work for Michael Schumacher and it's worked for Fernando Alonzo so I think it just proves how good he is behind the wheel of a racing car that he can come back

and yeah, maybe not all drivers could pull that off as successfully as he has done so far. I can't believe I didn't mention the actual driver I'm thinking of when I'm asked that question, Brendan Hartley. He could jump in anything and make it look good. That's inappropriate. Is it know it's Brendan Hartley, I think it's perfectly appropriate.

Nothing's inappropriate with Brendan. Appropriate Brendan is what they call it. Get that on a T-shirt. You can get rid of your saucy Cass. Appropriate Brenda. Is that his MSN musing aim? Is that with Appropriate Brenda? Yeah, well, that's it.

We'll have to confirm it with Appropriate Brenda himself. Potentially another name that I was thinking of when I asked that question is, of course, the one and only Michael Andretti, who raced for McLaren back in the mid-90s. Now, the reason I'd bring up his name is not because I think he might be making a comeback, but he might be making a comeback in a slightly different way in that he is potentially looking to bid and take over the Salba team.

Now, Salba themselves aren't, in name at least, technically on the F1 grid at the moment, but Salba as the group does still own Alfa Romeo. So buying Salba is essentially the same as buying Salba. Buying Salba is the same as buying Alfa Romeo at this point. So looking at this, Harry, it's been on and off for quite a few years, to be honest. Do you think this is going to happen?

Well, the way they were talking about it over the last race weekend, it seemed like, yeah, this is, this announcement's coming imminently. I don't know how it would happen, whether it would be Alpha Romeo Andretti or Andretti Salba. I don't know how the whole thing would work out. Both sound well cool. They do sound pretty cool. I mean, anything Andretti kind of sounds cool,

despite it being Michael. But yeah, I don't know how that would work in terms of Ferrari's involvement with Salba anymore because the Alpha Romero is a kind of sub-brand. But yeah, I would like to see it. It would be cool, especially for F1 trying to emerge itself in the American market, which has been trying to do for a very long time. I mean, someone very kindly pointed out in the Discord that we do more for F1 in America because the natural F1 does, which is very kind of them to say.

I don't think it's true. But we love you, Americans. But yeah, it's something that F1 has been trying to do for ages. And, you know, two USGPs as of next year, you know, pair that with what could be two USF1 teams. Let's not forget Hats are an F1 team. They're still there at the moment. But, yeah, two USF1 teams on the grid.

and all they would need then is good old Colton Herta as the little American cherry on top of the American cake to make this an American fest, which I think F1 would... It's a good thing for F1, and it needs it if it wants to break into this American market. I mean, you know, I don't know how comparatively popular indie car is in America. I don't think it's huge, but, you know, people still know about it, and they know who Colton Hurttor is.

So there's a potential new audience there if they can get Andretti. I think A, Andretti involved and then B, Colton Herta because he's kind of a rising star over there as well. So, yeah, be interesting to see. Most things the Andretti's dude does a right. Not always in F1, as we saw with Michael's glittering career. But his dad was alright. He did okay.

So why not? I think it would be a cool. As Sam said, it sounds cool either way. Alfredo Marendretti or Andretti's Alba. I'm here for it. That's the most important thing. What would the team name be? Sam, what are your thoughts?

I mean, it seems as if Fon have been trying to emerge in America for the last 70 years, is there any chance at all that this would be something that would actually help them there? I don't know. I think the issue with broadcasting in America when you're a Europe-centric sport at the moment,

just natively that becomes very difficult for the audience. 54%, if you like some transparency, folks, 54% of our listenership is from the US, which is crazy to us because we're three young English lads that, you know, it's not like we frequent the states that often. But also, much love to you all, thank you. So the fact that we've broken into the American market in Formula One are still struggling massively.

you know we clearly generate way more revenue than they do, like we say, doing this podcast from our bedrooms. It's quite baffling the way they haven't ever got into it. And I mean, Andretti out of all names is one of the most famous names in American racing, isn't it? It's much like the Earnhardt of NASCAR. It's a family of racing. It's very, very well known in the motorsport community in the United States. So, yeah, I mean, it would encourage fans of that IndyCar team to go and work.

watch it, who encourage historic fans of Andretti to give it a try. But do I think that those in California, for example, that want to watch the Russian Grand Prix at four in the morning are still going to get up in time loyally just because Andretti's turned up? I don't know. I don't know. And I feel like that's the issue, unfortunately, when you have a global sport broadcasting it in a viewable time for every single nation that wants to watch it, is very difficult to grow a loyal partnership there. I think the most clever part of Andretti, and I think it's a shame that they would take over

Alpha Romeo and not just form their own team, is Roman Grogon has definitely played the long game here, isn't he? He's definitely decided that, you know what, I'll go to Indy, I'll absolutely kill the whole game. People love me over there. I am the phoenix rising from the flames. He's now a worship son of the States, which I love, because Romig G on this channel is, you know,

a hugely popular figure. We're big fans of Romeo G. And now he's gone like, oh, I'll get a top drive at a top team. Maybe that team wants to go into Formula One. Maybe I can now secretly get myself back on the other side of the pond, which will be a little bit crafty.

I'd actually love to see it. So I think it's more about broadcasting than it is about teams if you want to get the American audience on board, but it won't do any harm, I don't think. So Andretti, Alfa Romeo, Andretti, or Sal Brangretti, Samuel Sage Andretti,

I mean, I put it, I think it sounds very exciting. I'm always up for new teams, new colors, new branding. I always think it's very fun in Formula One, so bring it on. Yeah, I mean, we've spoken about the struggle that F1 has had, generally speaking, in America and not quite being able to hit it off. They've been to multiple venues. Some places it's kind of work, some places it kind of hasn't.

And you're right, when you have a European-centric sport, it's going to be very difficult to break in a market, which is away from Europe. And if you're to look at where are all the new race is coming in, well, actually, for the most part, Jeddah, Qatar, they're actually coming in Asia rather than coming in America. So it's almost moving further away. So I think until F1 finds a way to solve that,

I think they are massively hamstrung by this. And I don't think a new American team is going to fix that. Yes, it might help a bit, but it's not going to be the magic potion that turns this all around. I think it would be very exciting, like you say, everything Andretti touches, as in the overall sort of family and brand. Generally, yeah, it works out. They've been very successful in IndyCar. They've won quite a few, especially with the Indy 500, they've won quite a few of those in recent years. And yeah, like you say, I mean, Mario is obviously an icon. Michael, Michael is far better than the average Formula One fan would give him credit for. you know, if you're looking at it a very Formula One lens,

you see Michael Andretti stint at McLaren and think it was an absolute disaster. And it was an absolute disaster. But that shouldn't take away from the fact that Michael was a very talented driver where it didn't work out. And I think as a community, we are probably too harsh on Michael Andretti sometimes for being battered by Ayrton Senna. I mean... Shock that that might happen. Ert & Senna is... It's the Foss effect, isn't it?

It is. Yeah. Getting back to mind. And it's a case as well of Edson was at McLaren, a three-time World Champion and had been there for like five years. He was very well implemented into the team.

And suddenly Andretti comes over from the US and is expected to compete with him. I'm not saying it was good, but there are, it's easy to understand why it didn't go well. I'll put it that way. But yeah, generally speaking, everything Andretti does,

you know, it works out. So I'd be very excited to see this happen. We've already mentioned a couple of driver names here that could well come about as a result of this move. Colton Herter, 21 years old, only made his IndyCar debut a few years ago. Roman Grojean, of course, only an IndyCar driver for one year, but a Formula One veteran of many years prior to that.

So you've got two very different drivers in terms of experience, in terms of F1 experience. Harry, if you're weighing up the two options, Where are you going and why? I don't think it's going to be old Giovanazzi, is it? As much as I love Jesus. No. We're open to all religious beliefs on this channel, by the way, folks.

Believe what you want. Of course, of course. Well, disclaimer. We've gone on a way of path. Anyway, as much as I like Giavenazi, see. Yeah, and he's had a much better year this year, I think, and probably his best year ever, I guess. He has been, it's the opposite of the Sena and Hamilton against Bortas Andretti effect. He's been against an old man who just kind of drives around for fun every Sunday and he's not that bothered about racing anymore.

He's off the entire. So, yeah, so the country. comparison maybe isn't fair but I think Giovenazzi's had a better year but you know I think that line-ups become a bit stale hasn't it and I think you know with Bottas coming in there's some new blood and don't think they necessarily need Giavanazzi there for the

you know the continuity because next year's so different that I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever if you've got the same drivers in your team it's a completely new formula so yeah why would you not go for someone like Colton Hurtle or indeed one of the younger F2 driver

I think it makes more sense. I don't know who they're set for, and I think that really depends on what happens with this Andretti stuff. But, yeah, I'm sorry, Gio. I just don't think it's going to happen, mate. Maybe you could get, go and join Remy G over. Maybe Andretti buy them out, and Giovenazi drives an Andretti over in Indy car.

I think they might all be full, but you're something, someone will come up for you, Antonio, mate. Don't worry about it. Yeah, bless him. Live the paper. Good well do. Could well do. I mean, looking at, again,

just looking at Herta versus Grojean here from my perspective. So Grogson is the known quantity of the two. You would roughly know what you're getting with Roman Grosjeon if he were to come back to Formula One. Obviously, we know the inconsistencies with Romance Grogion. You get the very good, you get the very bad.

And I think that's, he's had enough years in Formula One now that it's not necessarily a rookie trait, something that he is going to grow out of, that's kind of who he is. He's very inconsistent. And we've seen that in IndyCar as well, to be honest. There have been some absolutely fantastic moments in his first season, but there's still some of the old Romeo Jolie in there as well. And you'd get that if he was to come back to Formula One. And I think there's a reason that has got rid of him in the nicest way possible. So I don't actually think there's a reason for Alph Romeo or Andretti, Alphrao, Andretti, to tell him. I'm a reason for Alfa Romeo, Andretti,

to take him back. That's the winner right there. Yeah, I don't think that there would be much of a reason. You're almost getting a, I don't want to say, you're almost getting a worse version of Valtrey Bottas, to be honest. I think at this point,

Valtry Bottas, who is already confirmed for the team, would do a very similar but better job than Grosjean in that same position. Herta's an unknown. Herta, you know, could go into Formula One and be worse than Grosjon ever was. There's a potential for.

all that, but it's an unknown. He might also turn up and be in and amongst these young drivers that are very good. The problem is you don't actually have much of a reference point with drivers coming over from IndyCar to Formula One because it doesn't really happen, or at least it hasn't happened for a long time. It has worked before in the past. Harry's favourite, Jacques Villeneuve, it worked. I guess it was cart, but still technically. One Pablo Montoya, same thing. That worked. Mr Chunky. Mr. Chunky. So it can work. it can work but again you don't really have the reference points

the only real reference points you do have with Colton Herta at least are in his junior career so in what I come up with the year might have been 2017, 2016 possibly Colton Herta raced for Carlin who obviously

are name in Indy car now as well but a big name in the feeder series making their way up to Formula One he was a teammate of Lando Norris which is a pretty good comparison point and he stacked up pretty well. He didn't beat Lando Norris. They took part in the MSAF 4 championship.

Lando Norris won the title with 413 points. Colton Herter finished third with 355. He's really not that far behind. It's a pretty good going though, right? And Colton Herter in that season actually had a really slow start. If he weren't for that slow start, he might well have beaten him. So if you're using Lando Norris as a yardstick, that's pretty good going. he also had a few races in British F3 as well

and he did himself justice in all of them he goes over to IndyCar becomes the youngest IndyCar winner of all time and what's possibly most important to consider here is in IndyCar you've got I'm sure many people already know this but in IndyCar you have two types of races you've got ovals and you've got circuits

obviously circuits much more representative of what you get in Formula One all of Colton Hurtes wins have been road courses. He has no oval wins. So he has six wins in total, all of them. And if you're looking at it, you know, mid-Ohio, Long Beach,

Circuit of the Americas, that was his first win, St Petersburg, and then he's won twice at Laguna Saker. So it's a pretty good list, and he's much more representative of what you get in Formula One than, say, winning it all these ovals. Not saying that that doesn't translate at all, but if you're ignoring everything else

and you are asking, okay, do you want to take the winner of the Long Beach Grand Prix or the winner of the Indy 500, I know who I'm taking. And actually Colton Herta, since the beginning of 2019, no other IndyCar driver has won more road courses in that time in those three years. So really impressive driver. I know, right? Going hard this evening.

I'm not, yeah, not taking any liberties. But yeah, I think Colton Hurtt, it might be worth a shot. I'd be excited to know how it went because if it went well, then suddenly, maybe that door opens for other IndyCar F1 crossovers. We've seen plenty go from F1 to Indycar, but not really anyone go the other way. I'd like to see it happen with Herta.

It'd be exciting. Ben, a quick apology. You asked me a question about Grosjean and Herta, and I started talking about Giovanni. I've just realised what I did there. We were all confused, don't worry. Sorry about that. Sorry folks who we're listening

because apparently I was not. It's been a long day It's been a long day for Harry He's got a long drive to get back for this podcast So we appreciate him being here at all really So we'll let him off Now It's like his stupid child

That you kind of resent But you know You've got to keep him anyway At least you finally realise This is really important Harry I'm going to ask you a question Okay This is our next topic

This topic We're actually talking about Antonio Jovenazi. All right? Now at the weekend... You might remember, although you might not. There was a Turkish Grand Prix this weekend that happened. Antonio Jovenazi was given some team orders

to let Kimmy Reichen and go by early in the race. Antonio Jovenazi ignored him. Stayed ahead. So if we're talking about Antonio Jovanazzi here... what did you make of him ignoring team orders does it signal that he already knows he's not sticking around next year um i don't know because we kind of saw that in a in a in a in a weaker version with uh botas and we in in spain but then he and then he went past anyway or he made it difficult didn't he uh but i don't necessarily think the writing was on the wall for botas in by spain this year so i don't know

whether that could have explained it or not so i don't think it's a it means it's a done deal but um yeah maybe maybe giovannazzi especially with these rumors flying about he sees the writing on the wall what Kimmy that you know it's not going to let Kimmy pass what what does what difference does it make then Kimmy pass now um so yeah I don't know but you know you it's those kind of gestures are fairly indicative that that's a person who doesn't care for the team game anymore and and he's just fighting for himself but um Yeah, I wouldn't say it's 100%, but as I've already mentioned in the question

that I answered incorrectly earlier, I don't think he's going to be in that seat next year. So this is probably the beginning of the end of the end of the old Antonio Jesus Janat Givanasi. I love that you have to give him a new game every single time you talk about him. Wait, he talks about him so much.

Doesn't matter what you ask him, he'll go on about him. You're obsessed. You might have a chip. I might just edit this. for the pegman out. You might have a chance with F1 higher or lower, Sam.

How many... How many... How many... How many race wins does Lewis Hamilton have? Jevenatsy? That's got a answer! Might give you the win there. What are your thoughts on this, Sam?

Do you think he's out as a result of... Well, not as a result of what he's done, but do you think he's already out based on his action? The media would say yes. is already out. They're not a championship, you know, winging side. They're not fighting for anything major.

I think that Giovanni has every right to turn around to be like, no, it's early on in the race. I'm still going for it here. Kimi Rikin's retiring at the end of the seed, and he's not like he's on for one final race wing. I don't know why the team always were that strictly needing.

It wasn't like they were going to massively outscore what they did if Riking got through there and then. Giavanzi needs to impress. If he keeps Kimi Rikaiqzi, and behind him and he goes on to actually ever take a few cars and maybe score some points, then he goes at the end of the race, see, I proved you wrong, should have kept Kimmy behind me and look what I can do. So I think he's got every right to have a bit of firing him to turn

around to think, I need to go all out for this. Kimmy's fate is deciding. He's leaving at this year, finally, after 4,000 years of motor racing, Kimmy Riking is going to finally settle down on his own for a bit. But Giovanni, the man who comes from, you know, the dawn of time in terms of ADBT, he also needs to declare himself as a racer for the future. And the way of doing that is by scoring points and getting your foot down and making yourself heard and being a presence. And with Bottas coming in, Giavansi could theoretically still be the youngster at the team that develops and learns.

I don't agree that that's the right thing to do for the team. I don't agree that Giavansi should have a seat in that team next season. But I can see why he thinks that might be the right choice. So, yeah, media-wise, it says a lot. I think it says that, you know what, Giavina's adding enough, he wants to make a mark at the end of his, possibly his F1, F1 career, it might be,

and got a bit of a bang, it hasn't really worked too well. But I do also understand why maybe he has some motive to really try and show off the last few races, and that might just sway the management of the team. I don't think it will, but I can understand why he might think that way. So I don't think it's a slam dunk,

but I do think, in my mind, he's a good 90% out the door. Yeah, I think he's gone. I don't think he'd have made that decision otherwise. If he's 100% confirmed to be staying, he moves aside because what's the point? He's already got the seat. Like you say, Sam, there probably isn't that much on the line. I know it was a wet race, so you might think that the position might be worth something,

but realistically, there probably wasn't much on the line. So if you confirmed for next year, you go, well, yeah, sure. And also, if he was confirmed for next year, they probably don't even ask, they don't even make the team all in the first place, probably. because why cater to someone who's already going out the door? Likewise, if you think he's already definitely out, what's the point in listening to the team? You might as well, you know, go ahead and try to carve something out for yourself.

And, yeah, he needs to make a name, like you rightly said. He needs future opportunities. He's still, comparatively speaking, a young driver. He's still got plenty of years racing ahead of him, wherever that racing may be, he needs to build his career. So, of course, he's going to keep that position. And ultimately, you know, he would have given the position. So if he would have allowed Kimi Reikinen to go past,

he would have got the position back if Reikening did not make the overtake on whoever was in front. I can't quite remember who it was at this point in time. Might have been Ricardo or Ocon, one of the others. Whatever it was, they would have allowed the position to be. switch back. So, I don't know. This just seems like the writing's on the wall. You play the team game if you think there's a chance.

If you think there's a chance, the team game is going to impress them more than if you hold on to the position and score a point or two points. What's going to impress more? Being a member of the team is, I think. So I think he's a gone. I think he's a goner. Oh, see you later, Gio. See you.

Geo, dude. Get a Pokemon reference. Love it. Yeah. I haven't happened a lot. Maybe Geo will evolve. He'll become a

Golem. Or was it not the champ? No, that's the Match Hop evolution. Pokemon fans out there are gonna be

mad at you. The only one I know is Pikachu, right? No, they're definitely going to be mad. Move on. Let's move on. Yeah.

We'll move on. Gotta catch him all. Well, remotely close to the theme tune. That is an idea for a future theme, though. Yeah, I'll parody that. Definitely. Yeah, Ben, make a game called Gotta Catch a Mall

and then we'll do a theme tune. Go around throwing balls at F1 drivers. Folks, by the way, when Harry says we'll make a theme tune, he means, I'll write the entire song, and then Harry will put together some nonsensical bit of music he's found on lying behind it.

That's how the jingles work. Teamwork. Make the dream work. Speaking of Sam writing a theme song and Harry plonkinson music over the top of it, is F1 higher or lower? It's F1 higher lower. Is Sam faster? Is Harry slower? F1 higher.

F1 lower. F1. It's the F1 at the end of the end of. that. F1. F1. So we have a couple of different versions of of F1 higher or lower, so I'll better tell you which

one we're actually playing. So I've got 10 different numbers of sorts in front of me with clues attached. You'll take it in turns picking a number between 1 and 10. You'll have to make the guess if it's your one. You'll make the guess as to what the number should be. And then the other person will have to say whether your guess is too high or too

low and if they're right they get the point if they're wrong the person who guessed gets the point I think that's nice I think I started with Harry last week so how no I started with Harry last week Geovinatzy Geo Manazzi Good you can tell we're quite tired today folks We are collectively running on about 30% battery life Oh yeah Sam you can go first That's number but number between one and

10 that isn't Jovenazi. I will go, I can't do number 99. I'll go number 10, please. Number 10, so a friend of the podcast, Mark Weber. He doesn't know it yet, but he... Mark Weber, it's probably the most simple one. How many poll positions did he get in his career? Harry, I bet you know this as well, don't you?

No, I know. No idea. We go 10. 10 is the guess from Sam. It's not spot on. By the way, if you're spot on, you get two points. I should have mentioned that at the beginning. Harry, higher or lower than 10? I'm going to go lower.

You would be wrong in saying lower. He had 13 bowl positions. Oh, yeah, Mark. Absolute baller. Good on you, Mark. Well done. So Sam takes the first point. Well done. Harry, try and get something on the board. What number do you want?

I'll go for seven, please. Number seven. So the 2016 Chinese Grand Prix is notable. Do you know what reason it's notable for? Is that the question? No, I'm just wondering if you know. All right. I don't know. Nicaros will want it? Not sure. It was the most overtakes to ever happen in a race.

Wow. How many overtakes were made in the 2016 Chinese Grand Prix? 47. Sam. A higher or lower than 47? Higher, higher, higher. Well, Harry, you were only 114 out. What? What?

161 overtakes in the 2016 Chinese Grand Prix. I don't remember that being such a belter. I just go back and read that shit. So Sam takes a two-nothing lead, and we go back to you, Sam, for the next one. I'll have number nine, because that's one of Giovanni's numbers. By the way, I've put some really horrible ones in here this week.

Is this it, me? I was feeling, this one's a bit horrible. Oh. How many races have been one, One on Pirelli Tires. Crikey, mate. That is hard. I'm going to go with 274.

274 is not bang on correct, although I would have been very impressed if you managed to get that figure spot on. Harry, do you want to go higher or lower than 274? I think, oh, I don't know. I don't know. What are we doing before? Yeah, it's just round.

I don't know. Lower. It is lower. So, Harry, is on the board. I've got to say, I feel a bit sorry for you, Sam, because that's a really good guess. It was 256,

so you were not far out at all. Too far off. I'll take that. That's a point of my heart. I was thinking, because, like, 2011 and then 20-odd races a season, for 10 years. Yeah.

That's about right, isn't it? That's why I tried to work out in my head. They did have a few previous stints as well, although I'm not quite sure how many of those, how many victories came in those times. But yes, Harry does get the point, but a good guess from you, Sam. Harry, you're one next.

Number two, please. Number two are another friend of the podcast, Jolian Palmer. Again, he doesn't know it yet. He really is, though. How many races did Jolian Palmer enter in Formula One. Not a huge amount.

He did. He did 36. 36 is not correct. Sam, higher or lower? That's actually quite a good guess. And just like Jolian, you need to be alert on the street circuit. So I'm going to say it was higher. This is another one where Sam is correct,

but I feel very bad for you, Harry, because you were one out. oh oh oh 37 oh mate that is unlucky Julian Palmer

mugging me right off again there's all those sketches I dig of Jolian I'm with him that's old school LB by the way folks Very old school LB That's before the podcast It's not even sure you'll ever

You'll ever find that folks so don't go looking for it Thank goodness Sam, what number do you want? His journey and Palmer on a llama is the good feature. We ran that for months, folks. I will do number six, please. Number six, okay.

Famously, Sam hates Finland, so this is an appropriate question. He just hates select Finnish drivers. If you were to add up all of the drivers from Finland, and their number of race wins, how many win you get? Oh my God. Firstly, Statman for working this out. Have I think, you know, who's raised them from Finland, how many races they might have won each?

I'm going to go with 71. 71 is not correct. Harry? Lower. Lower is correct. Pretty good guess, 71. 57 wins overall. come on for england

harry what number would you like next what numbers that left you've got one three four five and eight five please number five oh this is a pretty horrible one as well I've been really horrible with these ones okay Jesus so we're talking here about

2019 2020 and 2021 so what has been so far this is as of the end of the Turkish Grand Prix. How many points have Toro Rosso slash Alpha Tauri got since the start of 2019? Bloody hell, Ben! I'm not expecting... No chance of even getting... You're not expecting you get it spot on. You make an educated guess, though.

I would say educated. You can make a guess. Don't know, how much you reckon they get a year? That's the whole point. You're right, trying to work out. I have got 71. 71 points since the start of 2019. No, can I retract it? You can retract that, yes.

And I would suggest you do that. I was like, yes, it's been an idiot. I'm going to go for 171. 171 is not correct. but a far better guess, I'll give you that. Sam, higher or lower? Oh, I'm going to just say higher.

It is higher, but it's actually quite a bit higher. 284. Wow, if it was my question, I'd say about 200 and 30 when you first, Harry, when you said 71, whatever it was that you said. They've got more than that this year. I thought that. I was like, wow, okay. Yeah, 85 points in 2019.

107 last year and currently 92 this year. They're all me up? Yeah, they're doing pretty well, aren't they? We've got four numbers left, so which one would you like, Sam? You're saying number eight was left? Number eight is still there? And shockingly, this one actually features a friend of the podcast. He just doesn't know it yet.

It's Dr Nigel Mansell. Yes, Dr. Nijal. Famously a surgeon. We're going to slightly change the question on this one from higher or lower to older or younger. How old is Nigel Manske? Now? Now.

No, when he was 30. That's kind of what I was hoping for. Charles, if you don't get overtaken by P2, you'll stay B1. Oh, man. Nigel Magdal Magdal is

of 58 higher or lower Harry higher it's an 8 on the end but it's 68 oh I saw it

that far off which does make it 4 3 to Sam so it's pretty close Harry three to go you can have number

1 3 or 4 number 1 please. Number one. The United States Grand Prix in the year 2000, it was significant because it is the highest race attendance of all time. How many people attended specifically race day, not over the weekend, how many people attended race day in the 2000 US Grand Prix? 150,000 people.

Higher or lower than 150, Sam. I'm going to go higher! Sam gets to five points. Another 100,000 people in you there, Harry, 250,000. I thought Silverstone doesn't get too far off 150, dang it now. Yeah, that's ever a weekend, right? The 2021 British Grand Prix holds the record for most over a weekend. But yeah, specifically, I don't know, 350.

or something maybe but yeah I don't know it so two to go number three or number four I mean one of them is horrible so good luck if you get that one Sam that's gonna be no it won't be I mean either way

we've both got to answer so three just get every done with giving the horrible one thing nah it's pretty the nicer one of the two so the 2003 Italian Grand Prix It was the shortest race of all time

until a few races ago when Belgium decided to happen but it is the shortest race without a red flag How many minutes to the nearest whole minute Was that race? I'm going to go with

52 minutes Harry higher or lower than 52 minutes. I'll go for higher. It was higher. 74 minutes.

Oh, I was in Michigan to say 71. I'm kicking myself. That's what I said about the points. Yeah, something that's come up a lot. So it does mean, Harry, pressure's on here. It's 5-4 to Sam. If Harry gets this right, we do end this in a draw.

If Sam gets this right, he takes the win. So you've got number four left. And it's an absolute belter. It's a dozy. It's a dozy. I mean, it's still a 50-50 choice, though, in it? It is. And I get them wrong.

This is well known. How many points has Sebastian Vettel accumulated in his career? Oh, cool. Blimey, governor. Oh, yeah, yay. He has accumulated 1,000, 3,000. 1222. 1,322.

You'll be shocked to know. It's not spot on. Sam, do you want to go higher or lower than that number? I'm going to say higher. It is higher. Well done. Yes! Debbie.

Harry... The wing always makes more to me than Harry. It's interesting. Harry would have... have been right. Harry would have been right if Sebastian Vettel retired midway through 2014, probably. Which he didn't actually. So it wasn't 1,322. It was 3,053. So it's like Hamilton had like 4,600 or something like that. Yeah, maybe that's right. I thought Alonzo did like a special Hamil once because he beat the amount of points ever. I know it's at Ferrari, but that can't be right

because Hamilton's got way more than him, so. Where's Hamilton's special helmet? Pro of the tyre fire of qualifying tires. So, by a score line of six to four, Sam walks away the winner.

Is F1 higher? Is F1 lower? Is Sam faster? Is Harry slower? F1 higher F1 F1

F1 F1 F1 F1 F1 F1 Just in case you forgot

what type of sport podcast you were watching at the end of the jingle It's just there's reminding F1 F1 It's actually for our own sake isn't it

just to remind ourselves sometimes is what we need Well today Sam you were faster And if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here Well, folks, yeah, the word Giavanatsy being said so many times with this podcast, it doesn't really sound like a real word.

So say it a few more times. Why not? You might get to the other end. Folks, we will be back midweek for a preview podcast of the US Grand Prix. That's right. All you love the American fans that there are so many of you, we're going to talk about you. Properly, you get to see some racing at normal times for you, which is just marvellous. Thanks for sticking around.

It's been a bit of a weird one. hit the little subscribe or follow buttoning or whatever platform you choose to listen on it really helps us out of course comes to join the Discord it's in the description if you like us that much

you've got a bit of spare change because you're lucky like that at the end of the month we've got a Patreon check it out as well we will be doing things such as giveaways and whatnot of merch

in the near future it's in the pipeline but yeah make sure you join us next week for the USGP preview and the review at the weekend

in the meantime I've been saying to say I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Antonio Giavanasi. And remember, keep breaking late. I should call the team Andretti spaghetti, by the way. Oh my God. Find more great shows or join the team at sport-ssocial.com.

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