The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Hadjar ready for a Red Bull promotion?

Episode Date: September 28, 2025

Ben and Sam are back with another round of F1 chatter. This week, they discuss whether Tsunoda can hang on to his Red Bull seat or if Hadjar is ready to take his place. Plus, Alonso's latest comments on retirement, the issue of Alpine's 2nd seat, and a ranking of Horner's most likely next moves in F1... >>> Don't miss out - limited tickets left for our 2025 LIVE SHOW in Austin TX! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CLICK HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to grab yours or for more info!

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Welcome to the late-breaking F-1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. No F-1 race on this Sunday, but still plenty of F-1 chat. Sam, you've got no boxes, but all the glasses. There was a better way to say that, I'm sorry. No, but you're right. It's a direct correlation. When the boxes go away, the glasses, are back off.

You know, it's a direct correlation between this. Yeah, I'm moving house, folks. And now I've been told that I can't see in dark light, so I have to wear these glasses to make sure I don't get headaches. It's becoming old. I'm an old man now. Before we get into this and going, F1 debacle, obviously we might have a bit of a birthday shout-out moment later on,

as it's the end of the month. But little, little, boom, happy boom day to Isaac Aghajohn as we record this. Is it boom day? It's happy boom day, yes. I hadn't known otherwise I would have had this song ready. Well, you go. This game.

There it is. Birthday boom for Isaac Hager. Happy birthday to our favorite little Rizzler. Also, big shout out. Congratulations to Mr. Marquez. Seven-time champing MotoGP. That's a pretty incredible feat. Choings are very prestigious list.

Man, what an intro. We've covered off MotoGP, Isaac Hajar's birthday, you're moving. And we're only like two minutes in. What a time we're having. The rest of the episode, pales in comparison, but we will try our best as we do. A top five list a little bit later on. Fernando Alonzo, some comments on his potential retirement. I say potential. It might never happen,

folks. But we're going to start with Yuki Sonoda. Before Baku, the last race we had, obviously, Yuki Sanoda had nine points in 15 races and two sprints for Red Bull. At Baku, Sonoda scored eight points. So he pretty much got his season tally in one race, as well as scoring some valuable points for the team. Sonoda mentioned after the race that part of his role was protecting Vastappen against potential threats. He was obviously dicing with the Ferraris that looked good earlier on in the weekend. He was in the mix with Lando Norris as well,

who was looking to come back through the field. And as we know, that's not a bad thing to hang your hat on when it comes to being a Red Bull driver. Sam, do you think this is something we've discussed. discussed before and maybe it's your opinions changed as the season has gone on. But do you think Baku would have changed anything from Red Bull's decision's perspective? The way he's phrased that rebuttal about defending against Ferraris and McLarence is that is PR brilliance.

Honestly, the spying on that is sensational. Yes, Yuki, the reason that they're back there and finishing there is entirely because of you. Uki's P6 at Baku is a strong reminder that he does have some real pace. He could drive a Formula One car very quickly, and when he can hook up a consistent race weekend, he could be in the mix, as we mentioned multiple times. It's a major red flag for him that the person directly in front of him was driving his car at the start of the season.

His great best performance of the season, and he finishes behind the junior team. That's still not an ideal situation to be in. I have not been particularly swayed by this one performance because of the rest of the season with where he sits in the wider Red Bull family. I mean, he's why, as you mentioned, just shy of 20 points overall in the season. 17th, I think, in the driver's championship at the moment. And he's only scored across five different points paying positions across the whole season so far. It's just not consistent enough.

Now, considering that the gap between Rebel and McLaren is about what, 350 points give or take. even for Red Bull to be close, he needs to be scoring another 200, 250 points for them to even be in realistic terms. And that's an average finishing position across the season of about fifth to sixth place, which to be honest, when your driver,

when your teammate is winning multiple Grand Prix, pole positions multiple times to get and it's maxed the staff and a four-time champion, it shouldn't feel that out of the question for your teammate to be first and you to be sixth. Like that is a realistic, gap that realistically you should be filling. If Sondoda is in sixth and the stappling his first, it's the same as Russell being maybe second in Antingelli in

seventh or eighth. And that's the kind of expectations we've been giving a rookie this year. So the fact that he isn't achieving that he's still so far behind, I'm not filled with confidence that UK Sondoda, even with this one-off good performance, is doing enough to be in any form of conversation for the Red Bull drive next season. Lauren Meckis is the reason he'll get to day. If there's a true belief that the way they shape the car and change it for 26, we'll allow Yuki to show off a bit more of what he was able to deliver in his racing balls, Alfred Tauri, whatever it was, days that he was there. Yeah, I think Baku has helped him a little bit, but how much is down to interpretation? I think it's helped a touch.

I think maybe coming out of Monza, there was some that were more complimentary or understanding of Sonoda's performance there, where Vestappen obviously took a dominant win and Sonoda was outside of the points. Maybe there were some mitigating circumstances with that finish. But I have to say, I was pretty unimpressed with what Sonoda did at Monza. I've said throughout this season where Vestappan hasn't been able to claim wins because that car just isn't as good as it has been in the past, that Sonoda's relative performance doesn't need to be what Perez was doing. We had Vestappan winning races and Perez in and around the top five quite consistently.

That was reflective of the car that they had at that point. At this stage, there have been races where Vastappen has struggled to get on the podium or even been off the podium. And then Sonoda is obviously going to struggle as a result of that. But that excuse goes away when you have a race like Monza, whether Stappen is absolutely dominant. And I was having a look at, again, using sort of Sergio Perez as a bit of a yardstick for this because even though, ironically, they got rid of Perez as a result of wanting

more from the seat. I think right now, Red Bull and Meckys would just take what Perez was giving them. Like, that would be a good first step. Max Verstappen won 53 races when Sergio Perez was his teammate. And in all of those 53, only four times did Perez finish outside the points. There were a few DNFs in there as well, but he only finished outside the points four times. And not to give an excuse to him, but three of those four were wet weather races or at least somewhat impacted by rain. So only once was a dry race and he was outside the top 10 when Vestappen was up the road and winning. Of course, that's exactly what happened at Monza.

Baku, equally dominant from Vestappen, but it is better from Yuki Sonoda. No danger of a Q1 exit whatsoever, gets through to Q3, qualifies P6. I mean, it wasn't the best qualifying session in the world from him, but in a session where so many drivers were struggling with the conditions and going into the wall, he remained calm under pressure when maybe the pressure on him is higher than most. So you deserve some credit for what he does there. And then obviously finish his P6 as well. So that was, I think it's helped him.

I can't think of an appropriate analogy for this. But the way I kind of look at this is I don't think like, it's almost like Red Bull were asleep. and Sonoda's kind of just like with this performance woken them up to the point where maybe this race won't have done much for his chances but they are somewhat paying attention now. It's like, okay, show me again then. It's like, and maybe this isn't the best analogy because I'm not a parent and maybe parents around the world will tell me I'm wrong with this.

It's like, it's like your kid showing you something that they're really happy with and really impressed with and you're only kind of paying half attention. And he's like, did you see that? Did you see that? Yeah, yeah, it was great. Yeah, yeah. You weren't watching. It's like, okay, now I'm properly watching. Go on then. That's the stage we've got to now. Future performances might actually matter a little bit more thanks to this eye opener. Should we call it from Sonoda? Can I do a dance? Honestly, having sisters every single evening. I think that's a fair comparison, actually. And I do wonder if UK Singoda might benefit from all of the changes that are going on in terms. internally at Red Bull benefiting him. Yes, I think so.

If he can now do consistent points finishes, I don't mean as good as sick. If it's 7th, 8th, whatever, if he shows improvement and regularly is now finishing inside the points, I'm not expecting it. But if that is the case, he may slip under the radar as a problem. Lauren Meckis may look at several other areas

of that Red Bull group and go, right, we've got to deal with all the fallout from Horner leaving. The fact that so many senior personnel have gone, you know, this issue with the fact who Ford integrate into the team really, really well. Okay, Yuki-Sinoga, he's a relatively safe pair of hands. He's not damaging the car a lot anymore. He's not throwing it into the wall.

He started to score some points. He may end up guessing an extension for a year to allow him to perform in the new regulations, simply because everything else is going on is a bit more complex and crazy, especially if Lawson is stepping up continually, because if Lawson continues to show improvement what she has done since the turn of the summer break, it might mean that actually they go, well, we'll give Arvin Limblad a chance another year. in F2, which means we don't have to rush changing the junior seats in Hadjar and in Lawson. So therefore, Sanooga can have another year.

And therefore, it just allows them to stabilise, allows them to settle, re-evaluate their options. So in a strange twist of fate, all of the horrible chaos that has taken place at Red Bull might come about to actually massively benefit Yuki Sengona. I think there's a chance of that for sure. Like, if he can keep up what he did at Baku across multiple Grand Prix and consistency will be the key for him, that's for sure. If he can keep that up, and it's slightly relative, because if we get to Singapore and the car is much worse there and Estappan's not performing as well, then Sonoda's expectation also goes back a bit. But if you can stay sort of as close to, and it's not very close, but as close to Vestappen as he was at Baku across multiple Grand Prix, suddenly there is a decision to make because he almost needs to create, weirdly, doubt at Red Bull.

He needs to say to Red Bull that there is something you lose if you get rid of me. Because that's kind of the situation they were in with Perez was, we think we can get more, but we're not that certain about it. So Perez got quite a few years there until the point where they decided it was worth the gamble and you could say it hasn't paid off. That's what Sonoda kind of needs to do. It's like before Baku, you're really not losing anything by trying something else because he's not scoring any points.

If he can at least score regular points, then you've got something to lose. And then maybe the decision goes the other way. He does need to up his qualifying pace, though. He does. I know I said he made it through his Q3 at Baku. That deserves credit, didn't go in the wall where many others did. Across the three sessions, like the three best laps from Vestappen versus Sonoda,

if you add them all up, he was 2.7 seconds slower than Vastappen. So that's like nine tenths per session. And obviously it was a chaos filled session. And he, yes, managed to get through it cleanly, which is great. But that's the kind of session where someone like Sonoda should be pouncing. They should be taking advantage of no Piastri, no Norris, no Ferraris at the front. The Mercedes even aren't able to fully capitalize. If science is in P2, when your teammates in P1, Yuki Sengue should be P2. P6 is fine. But that's what he should be doing on a standard day of qualifying in that Red Bull. He should have been P2. that session really. But because he's being so poor for the regular for the majority of the season,

it means that we look at P6 favorably for him. Actually, everyone else has crumbled. He should now be right there with his teammate, taking full of advantage, and he still wasn't able to do that. So I agree, qualifying is a big improvement needed for him. If you were putting a number on this, Sam, the percentage chance that he's at Red Bull next year, and I'm talking the senior team rather than if there was a demotion, what percentage chance would you put on that? I think I'm going around. around 20, 25%. I think there's a one in four chance these days. And again, it's so obvious.

This is Formula 101 101, but it massively depends on what happens in the next few races. That, and it's so obvious that, you know, well, performances matter. Yes, they do. If he could just be in the consistent, like I said, top seven, top eight, or a regular basis, show that he can finish in front of both Hajar and Lawson

on a regular basis, even though they're in a worst team. I do think that Mechis will be sensible and want to settle down the kind of the conveyor belt of drivers that Red Bull are going through because they are at risk, a bit like Mercedes right now, of running out of people to actually use should things go wrong. And we've been in this place before, hence why they got Perez in that seat. They ran out of good options. They could be in that spot again. If they promote Hajar, it doesn't work. You know, what do you do then? You put Limblading?

Well, that's ridiculous. Genuinely ridiculous at that point. and then you're out of options. So I do think that there's a probably about a 25% chance he stays if he could consistently finish inside the points. What about you, Ben? I put it at 35, but I'm fairly similar territory to you on this one. Feels more unlikely than likely,

but again, the change in team principle is the thing that elevates this for me by maybe 10% more than it would be if it was still Christian Horner. Meckes was with Sonoda at Racing Bulls at Alfa Tauri. And I do think it does seem like early doors that Meckes does have a different leadership style than what Christian Horner had, rightly or wrongly, for better or for worse. And part of that I think will be to instill some stability. This is a way he could do that. Again, I'm still not going as much as 50% say it's a toss up.

but I do think that things staying the same in terms of Hadger and Lawson at racing balls plus Lindblah getting another year in F2. It's not out of the question at this point at least. Speaking of Isaac Hadja, we've got a few sources reporting that this is maybe already a done deal where he's going to Red Bull. He's put himself very much in the picture thanks to his results so far this year. Has he done enough? Yeah, I mean, yeah.

In terms of Red Bull, he has done enough. This is what they look for. He has that raw pace. And what's great about Hajar is he's been doing it consistently. They're not flashes in the pan, you know, to use the cooking analogy. He's made the whole meal. He's got there from the agreeing, he's turned it into something that actually has substance to it. He's had a podium.

He's had regular points finishes. The fact that he's been in Q3 more, there's so many inside the midfield battle. There's an impressive feat. And that's really where the Red Bull family been struggling in that senior seat is the qualifying, as we've just mentioned, with Sunoda. So if he could be consistent with his qualifying and take his performances from the racing balls to the reg ball, then that's solid. You know what most of the time?

He'll be in Q3. And if he's starting most races, P8, P9, that's an improvement of what Sanoda is able to do right now. His race place is strong. He's making very few mistakes. It's all pointing towards Hajar being the next option. And it's very logical that it is. I just don't want them to rush it.

we are at that point where we're all in understanding that it isn't the driver that's fully to blame with the performance right now. Paris is a fantastic driver. So it has proven to be a very good driver. Hajat is on the way to being a sensational young talent in Formula One. I do not want to see what happened to Gasily happen or what happened to Albonn happen. I don't want to see a career set back five or six years because of this seat not being drivable for anyone but Max for Stauffin.

All credit team, Max for Stappen. But Formula One is a team sport and a solo sport. that second seat is crushing people's careers right now, I don't want Hajjah to fall on that sword too soon. So yeah, I do think it makes absolute sense. And I would not be shocked if he does get that drive. But I am worried for him if that is the case. Yeah, it's, it is relative. You're absolutely right. In most circumstances and in the ideal circumstance, I don't think he's done enough. Not yet. And that's not based on his performance even. It's just based on his time in the sport. Like if the situation that Red Bull want to be in is to say,

Adjah's had a great first season, really impressed, showing a lot of promise, another couple years in that seat, and he might be ready for the senior team. That's the position they want to be in and should be in, but that's not the reality. The reality is right now that three quarters of a good season is enough to get you in the picture for this seat that, I don't know, used to demand much more before you got there.

which is an indictment on Red Bull, not an indictment on Hadjar. I will say when it comes to, when it comes to Hadjar's strength, it is qualifying. That's where Sergio Perez struggled, particularly, versus Vastappen. It's where even Sonoda has struggled so far in his Red Bull tenure. But I think we could tell from the off with Isaac Hadjar that he's quick over one lap. The Q3 stats speak for themselves, no doubt about that. he was only teammates with Sonoda for two races and three qualifying sessions.

But if we look at the six comparative laps in those three sessions, Sunoda versus Hadjar, Hadjar was on average just under a 10th quicker. And that was, again, his first and second race in F1. So I think you could tell just from that that this guy could do qualifying very well. He's 114 up on Lawson so far this year in that regard as well. But it's far closer in terms of points. He leads Liam Lawson by 39 points to 30. But in the last seven races, Lawson's outscored Hadjar by 26 to 18.

And that's despite Hadjar having a podium at Zamvort. So I just, based on those stats, I just think we'll get the same thing again. I think he's got more promise, Hadjar, than both Sonoda and Lawson. I will say that. But in terms of current performance and what I would expect, expect from him if you got in that seat next year. It's no higher than what Sonoda's doing right now. I've said it before. The biggest compliment I could give Max Verstappen is he shifted the expectation of young drivers in Formula One. He turned up the conveyor belt to 100. You know, we

had this steady row of drivers. You remember when Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vesbos came to the sport, you know, they were already in their 20s and they weren't expected to do anything big for the first few seasons. It takes time. You know, the usual driving age should be a, you know, a stashy and a midfield driver was your late 20s, sometimes early 30s. And that you could just be normal then. You've only start to win championships in the 90s in your late 20s, early 30s. And yet now, Stappen is a four-time champion. He's been years younger than I am.

So it's expected by the Red Bull family that you should be race-winning quality by maybe 21 years old, in my opinion. That's what they're thinking. That's where you should be winning races. And if you're not, you're not good enough. I do think that's the biggest compliment I can give Max Verstappen, that he's shifted an entire generational viewpoint on what a driver should do at a certain age point. Okay, let's know what you think on this situation, folks.

We're going to take a short break. On the other side, we're talking Fernando Alonzo, potential retirement. Why are we talking about this? He's never going to get a leave. Fair point. Welcome back, everyone. Before we move on to Fernando Alonzo, if you are set to join us for our live show in Austin, Texas in a few weeks' time,

make sure you check your inbox because we would have sent you an email a couple of days ago with a reminder of some of the key details. Also an opportunity to fill out your under pressure submission. So we will call on a few people live in the room. So if you want to, if you want to say your under pressure submission in front of the crowd, you can do so to be considered for that. Just pop your name and your submission who or what is under pressure on that form within the email. And if you haven't already signed up, if you haven't already bought your ticket to come along, there are still some available. Not many at this point, but there are still some available. So the link to buy tickets is also, it's in the description.

We can't wait. It feels very close now, Sam. I am so excited. Every day that counts down, it is the best feeling when we get to go and do a show in front of you, lovely lot. In real life, it's bizarre that it actually takes place. When you guys come up on stage You give your submissions It is such a surreal feeling

Be like, oh, we hear you guys over Discord And you're here doing it And the reaction from the crowd is always mega It's such a great community moment Where you guys get to be a real part of the show with us So if you're considering it, you think, oh should I Give it a go. It's so much fun Everyone has a great laugh doing it

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is Fernando Alonzo. And he's recently had some comments where he has said it would be very hard to retire from Formula 1 at the end of 2026 if Aston Martin are not competitive next season. Now, the 44-year-old two-time world champions contract expires at the end of next year, and Alonzo says he has fought about leaving F1. Here's what he had to say. If things go well, think it's a very good moment to stop because I've been chasing a competitive car and competitive racing for many, many years. And if I have that, I think it's a very good way to close my career.

Let's say that if we are competitive, there is more chance that I stop. If we are not competitive, it will be very hard to give up without trying again. It's so a long-so, isn't it? Can you see him walking away? Oh, if the car is good, I'll leave. Okay, a long-soe, sure. Yeah, for a lot so, yeah, Faganda, that's what you've been striving for for the last, what, decade at this point, over a decade. No chance. If the car

is good, there is no chance he walks away. He is addicted to that feeling. He's addicted to the fighting Formula One. And when we're talking competitive, I don't think we're talking title fight. I don't think we're talking, Fagano long so, you know, going to the last rate of the season, possibly

winning a title. I don't think that's what he means, although I'm sure he'd love it to be the case. Sign me up, boy. So, yeah, big time, sign me up. first name on the sheet. I am. But I do think he's talking about what we saw the glimmers of when, you know, Hamilton and also were going wheel to wheel in Bahrain, right, where he picked up a couple of podium, where he nearly won at Monaco. That's what I think competitive in his mind now means. He's regularly in the fight with those big teams at the front where points are always a given. He's one of those teams where now, right, seventh or eighth is maybe a bad day. We're aiming for

four, fifth, the occasional podium if things go our way. I think that's what he thinks is. competitive now in this point of his career. But he's not going to walk away. He's playing Fernando Alonso. The man will drive a living skip quickly if he was able to make it happen. I think that he's far more inclined to actually leave if the promise of a competitive car goes away. You know how we've had this build up to 2026, the new regulations, so much expectation

and desire has been put on what Aston Martin could be, where they could. could be? Could they be a title challenger? The Mercedes engine sounds incredible. They're moving away from that. Is that a big risk? Will Honda be able to deliver something? Have they focused correctly on the right spot? They've got a great team built up, this billion dollar facility that's been put in place. Adrian Newey is there in theory. Every single box is ticked for a real push towards the front. If that doesn't go to plan, that's when I think he goes. I think if it gets pulled out from under, if the rug gets pulled out from under his feet,

that's what I think he goes. But if he gets to the end of 2026 and he's finished fifth in the driver's title, he's had four podiums, no chance is he going anywhere for the year after. Are you having an absolute laugh? Ben, is he going anywhere? While I sometimes doubt it,

Alonso will leave one day. One day? It will happen. Dead of old age. It could be, but he is going to go at some point. And I understand why he wants to leave. on a high because I think part of the reason why he even came back to begin with is because

his lasting, or not his lasting legacy, but his final hurrah in F1 would have been those McLaren years, which weren't very good. They got a little bit better towards the end of his stint, but they weren't great. And I think he was looking at that thinking, I don't want people to remember me for that. I want people to remember me for way better. And I think that's one of the reasons why he came back. So I understand maybe a Rosberg-esque wanting to leave on a high. Now, obviously, that was a championship. Would he need to downgrade his expectations? Quite possibly. I think this interview is maybe an admission that he needs to lower the expectation of that last chapter just a little bit. Because I think a few years ago when he came

back, or particularly when he moved to Aston Martin, it was very much, I want to leave on a title. or at the very least, I want to leave on a title potential winning car, like fighting for a championship. And he'd still want that, no doubt. But would he settle for just a little bit less right now? Maybe. Maybe he would. Farther time is undefeated.

And I think Alonzo has done maybe a better job than pretty much anyone in the last 25 years of extending his shelf life in F1. Like he has, you know, there's no way to reverse it. And he knows that he won't get better from here. And that's probably been the case for maybe five to 10 years that he hasn't got better. But he's done a wonderful job of ensuring he's not getting worse. And he's still able to compete on a level with drivers that are 10, 15, 20, 25 years younger than him at this point. So I think his way of extending his career has been admirable.

but there will come a point where that decline will start set in more noticeably. And I think he wants to be out of F1 before that happens and hopefully for his sake with success. The difficulty comes in what you said, sandwich is how do you know when to stop? Because if he wins a title, he Rosbergs it and goes off into the distance, no doubt. But if he wins, say, three races in 2026 and they're all in the second half of the year and Astin might look the best team for the last quarter of the season, I can't see him going. I just, the potential of the championship in the next year would be, it's easy to comment on it when you're not in the moment and you're talking about a future version of yourself being in

this situation as he is right now. but being in the situation is another thing entirely. It would be really difficult for him to walk away at that stage. You imagine also, Cam, if the person that sits in that seat after him goes on to win the driver's title that next season. I can't because he wouldn't allow it. No. He just, he would, I think he would rather crash and burn.

Like, he would rather fail than let someone else have the potential. Yeah. I think if we got to race 127 and this. You know, Aston Martin were one in three, for example, across the line. He sees Lank strolling third, whoever it is, he's first, because let's face it, that's the way it's going to go. I think he walks into the Ashton Martin paddock and goes, drag that stroll boy out the car. Put me back in that car immediately. I really, and that worries me for Aston Martin moving forward, because without a long-so, I don't know where Aston Martin go with their leadership.

Stroll isn't a team leader. We know that stroll doesn't, he has his moments, right? He has his moments are brilliant and then they are real flashes in the pan and then it disappears for a long time. And without Fernando in the car, I think they have a real risk of not having someone who can focus development on, who can drive that development forward, who can lead the team, who could be kind of the spearhead on the track. Now, they can obviously fast track, Druggovich, but he's now being out of competitive racing for what, three seasons, four seasons? He's off to Formula E. He's off to Formula E, which is, I mean, good for him, I suppose.

Might be an admission of, I don't want to say he's given up on the F1 dream, but that feels like the biggest sign that he knows it's probably not happening. I think as a test driver, you've got to keep yourself busy. You've got to show that you can still do it. That's the best way to advertise yourself. And we saw with Mick Schumacher, for example, who went to endurance racing, is now doing a testing indie car. Sure, love that.

I'm for it. I'm all for it. But you're going to do that. You can't be sat there in the wings, hoping that you get your going to pulled out of a hat because you were F2 champion nearly four years ago at this point. The issue is, the danger is for Asthmastomarting is being caught flat-footing with not having a backup plan, not having a succession story in place. Because if Al-Lon-so does get that one wing, then he goes, you know what, that was a lucky race.

We got the strategy right. There's a bit of chaos. And Vamos, I got the victory. Gosh, well, what I would give to see one more for, Aal-Lonzo victory. Tama! The scream in that helmet, you know it will be electric. That's what I live for over the radio. I think if he got one wing and the car was good, I think he'd go.

And I think in 2027, if he does suddenly go, right, you know what, we're three races from the end, we're not improving, we're still finishing regularly eighth to tenth. I'm done. See you later. I'm done. Who do they go for? What do they do? Because I don't think they have a plan in place.

Well, that was my next question is if you were asked Martin right now, you've got Alonzo locked up for next year, but only next year. You've got a stroll on this kind of unofficial contract. that kind of just extends, but no one really knows when it runs to because it seems like a rolling thing. What is the succession plan right now that you put in place? Like, what do you do? Well, I don't know. That's my problem.

I don't know. And obviously, long term, I wouldn't keep strolling the car. That's the point. I would rather have two empty seats to try and create more of a dynamic duo line up. Like, do you go for Sengoda with the Honda pick? Now, if he drops out of Redboard at the end of this year, takes a year out and also disappears, you think, right, Sengoder and stroll? Is that a...

No. You can't do that. No. Not with Adrian Nui, no disrespect to Yuki Sunoda or Lanchdoll. Adrian Nui cannot be wasted on that lineup. No. No, lots of sort. It would be like Ede and Sato driving, you know,

2020, 3 Red Bull. That's taking the heat off me. That's fine. Like, they're better than I'll ever be in driving a race car. But come on, you know, for that creation. And the pickings are slim. They will have to go out there and try and wrestle someone off a a current team.

You know, does for stabbing end up leaving Red Bull and going to Mercedes and George Russell is floundering for a team? Fine, you go all out and get George Russell. That's the kind of thing you have to go and do. Pierre Gasly, does he get bored of being an Alping and they're still floundering at the back? And you go, right, he is a race winner. He's a podium sitter.

He's very experienced at this point. We put Gasly in the car. Is he someone you could build a world championship fight around? I don't know. I don't know. So I do think Ashton Martin are a real precipice in there. a really tricky point of if it does go slightly wrong, they risk losing the one thing that I think is holding them up on the racetrack,

and that is Fernando Alonso, because there isn't a clear path to success for them. And that is the danger of having lunch stroll in one of your seats. It's not like what he brings. It's what he stops from happening elsewhere. Like if you have him, because he's not, again, he's not awful. Like he picks up solid points from time to time when the car's there. But if you have him in that seat, like as almost a given, you need to be very confident on what's happening with the other seat.

The best thing that Aston Martin have right now in terms of a succession plan is their pitch. It's not what they've got on track. It's we've got Adrian Newey, we've got all this investment. We therefore think that it would be a great place for a star to come and make this team their own, similar to what Alonzo's done. That's the pitch. And they've got to hope that when Alonzo leaves, if it happens at the end of next year or later than that, that it just so happens that either there is a brilliant driver on the market or the pitch is good enough that they can wrestle someone away from an existing contract. Because if they can't do either of those, they are stuffed. Like, I do not know what else they can do.

They can't even properly invest in their junior, I know they've got a few junior drivers. they can't invest properly in the junior program because you would never want a junior driver plus land strollers your lineup. You'd never want that. So it leaves them in a really tough situation. There's not much point investing in that. And there's no point. You need at least like a seven out of ten driver in the other seat, which is what they've got right now with Alonzo. But there's just no guarantee as to how long that's going to be there.

But they can't afford to waste what they've got. Like this era could be Aston Martins. It's fine. Yeah. Adrian Nui won't be around forever. This investment at Aston Martin will disappear if it isn't realized on the racetrack. It won't last forever. And I think Fernando Alonso is there at the right moment to seize it if anything does come about this situation.

But what are you doing 2020-9, 2030? Because I do think at that point that long as has gone regardless. I don't think he sees out, you know, into 2030. I'd be shocked if he's still. How are all going to be then? 50? 49. Yeah.

You're almost one with Alonzo to give, you want Alonzo to give notice of when he's, he's going. Like you want him to commit, say, you need a season. Yeah. You want him to commit at the beginning of 2026 that he's going at the end of

of 2026. You don't want his decision to come in September. Like, but will Alonzo play ball with that sort of thing? Probably not because he's waiting to see how competitive this car is before making a decision. The only thing I can think that would allow him to be a bit more amicable with his departure is that he's what a life.

lifetime ambassador for Asim Martin. Right? They've been clever there because he won't walk a burger bridge. Understandably so. So that might buy them a few months, but it's a few months. I don't think it's a year and a half to put a plan in place. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens. Of course, there is still the potential.

Alonzo's in the sport in 25 years time. So still on the board. Let's take our second break on this episode on the other side. his former slash current manager, Flavia Briotori, some comments from him. Welcome back, everyone. With Pierre Gasley having confirmed his future at Alpine until 2028, attention has turned towards who will partner the Frenchman next season.

Flavia Brutori had the following comments when he was speaking to the race. It's between Franco and Paul, of course, those being Franco Colopinto and Paul Aaron. Paul is a very nice guy, a very quick driver as well, and I need to understand what is the best for the team. When asked if anyone else was in the picture, he said, I don't see any other possibility, which of course means there is another possibility. Don't ever believe what Briatore says.

There are a million possibilities. If we are to believe what Briatore says, and that is a danger in itself, who is more likely of these two? It's really tricky, isn't it? Because you're, again, arguing an unknown quantity versus someone who has had to drive the worst Formula One car of the season. It's an absolute dead dog of a car. It struggles around every scenario.

That poor, poor Pierre Gasley, you know, the guy's going through the peak of his career in that hellhole. Anyway, so Riatorre believes that, you know, the choices between Aaron and Conopinto. I also agree, I don't personally buy that those are the only two options. And I do if it was, you're a Formula One team in this current day and age with that much value and that much potential, you'd be able to find someone else, should you want someone else. But of the pair, for me, Conopinto still feels the more likely. He has a lot more than just what he can produce on track. It is beneficial for him that his results are growing in ability.

Since the summer break, I think he's being actually pretty comparable. We've got better than Pierre Garcia over the races that we've had since coming out the summer break. And whilst Pierre maybe has just kind of given up a little bit, understandably so, received himself until the end of the year and thought, okay, well, maybe we'll go into 2026 with some new confidence because there will be a race winning title fighting car guys. remember Briatore told us that they will be title challenges.

That's exciting. Facts. What Briatore says is factually true all the time. Colopinto also has huge, huge appeal outside of just being the racing driver. And in a place where Alpiga's struggling, let's say, both on the off the racetrack. Having that Argentine Riz, my guy, pausing along of the fans, okay? Argentina, you are a passionate nation. And you show that passion in spades.

Of course, he's pretty much doing the job from Argentina for the first time in a long time. We've got to have a successful Argentinean driver for. Ben, can you recall the last time? If you want to go successful Argentinian driver, you'd have to go back to Carlos Reuteman, which was over 40 years ago. But the last Argentinian driver at all, you have to go back to 2001, maybe? I think so. Just over 20 years, for sure.

It's been a while, isn't it? Argentina have had a strong representation in the sport. And I think it is a big of an untapped market. We've seen how profitable and how supportive. The South American market as a whole can be. You saw that with the likes of Massa, with NASA, when he came into the sport as well. You see it now with Bortoletto being a part of the sport. It is a fantastic sporting market.

And they are so passionate. Even Sergio Perez, of course, in Mexico, North America, it shows you how committed they are. So having that in your team when you're struggling, I think it's a real boost. I think he might be the closest thing. you can get to a paid driver without being a paid driver because I think it is an untapped market. The sponsorship appeal is huge for him. And when Alp.R struggling and they need that investment and maybe Renner are unsure of how this project is going, this is appealing from a buyout perspective for a start because it might produce more options for

the moving forward. And I just don't think Paul Aron has that appeal right now. Whilst I think his racecraft is strong, he's been all right in junior formula, it's nothing more than what Colopinto was doing. And Colopinto now has F1 racecraft experience. It has shown good progress. It was great in Williams, although putting it in the wall a lot, has been putting it in the wall less at Alpine,

but is showing progress, which is great to see. So Alpine are indecisive. Alpine don't know what they want, but I do think that if they had to go with one of those two options, Colapinto is probably the favourite. I agree. I think Colapinto is more likely in this situation. And I kind of use the same words that you did, Sam,

which is, I don't think the appeal of Paul Aaron is quite high. high enough to warrant the switch and maybe the risk that comes attached with that. Of course, again, Colopinto we've seen this year and last year, at least in some regard. We haven't seen anything F1 wise from Paul Aaron to this point. And Flavia Briatore, I didn't read it out in the quote, but he goes on to talk about how there isn't someone out there like Lewis Hamilton, like Fernando Alonzo. A lot of that's who he points to as well as his options. Sorry, let me rephrase.

There's no one like those who were doing things in junior formula. He's talking about how like Hamilton in F2, like you could tell, or in GP2 at the time, you could tell he's going to be good. Same with Fernando Alonzo, same with the likes of Russell, Norris. Yeah, yeah. So there isn't someone maybe out there like that at the moment. It does seem the top 10 or so in Formula 2 right now are very close. There's not much to separate quite a few drivers. And as a result of that, I think he probably is leaning towards Colopinto.

It does sound weird, but I think Colopinto, it's his seat to lose. Of course, he hasn't scored a point this year. So naturally, you would think he doesn't stand a chance, but that Alpine has got progressively worse as we've gone throughout the year. You know, Gazley's only scored 13 points this season, and we know how good Gasly is, and he scored none in the last four, same as Colopinto. So I don't think the fact that he scored zero points will scare Alpine off too much, because they know how bad the car is.

And the thing is, with the Alpine over the last four races, again, Gazzley scored no points, Colopinto scored no points. There's nothing that connects the last four races to think that there might be something brighter to come. So they scored no points at Baku and Monza, pretty high-speed circuits. We were expecting that. They also scored no points at Zanvort or Hungary, which might be closer to their strength, but they're scoring no points at their strength tracks.

So there's every chance they don't score a point for the rest this year. Like that is entirely possible, in which case you are going to have to go on what his performance is like against Pierre Gasley. And I agree with what you said that they've been pretty close as of late. Ghazley is winning 7-4 in qualifying after a bit of a rocky start from Colopinto. I mean, that's a better head-to-head percentage-wise than Holcomberg against Bortletto, Lawson against Hadjar, Hamilton against LeCler, Antonelli versus Russell. That's a better head-to-head than all of them.

That would work out at 15-9 across a full season. It's not bad. That's not bad against Pierre Gasly. And it's the same in races. He's 7-4 down. So, yeah, the pace might already be good enough to say yes, to be honest. I haven't been super impressed with him, but based on the limited options that exist. It's so hard to tell.

It is. It is. And maybe Briatore just wants to see a few more races of consistency where he's not making an error. Because that's kind of been Colopinto's issue in F1, even though, as you say, maybe it happened more at Williams than it's happened this year. He has been prone to some errors.

He has. If he can iron those out over a few races, maybe that's enough to convince him. I do think the racecraft thing is a fair point because if that car is improved, you have to think it must improve, surely with all the, you know, there are works car at the end of the day, in theory,

despite taking Mercedes on. You have to think that if they're going to be, at least further into the midfield next year, despite what Priory Tories thinks, wheel to wheel racing is going to be imperative. You've got to get that right. You've got to make sure that you could go wheel to wheel and if Franco can show that he could defend well

and he can go wheel to wheel without incidents, it'll go to cost the team money, then that's a solid foundation as any for a midfield driver to be. And if that's all they need, then that's what they need. I do think though, if a Bottas, Perez, Ocon type, turned up, available, ready to go,

you go he pivot on a bling on his heel. If Ockon, he'd have to live stream that, like the reaction of him being told that they want him back. Like, oh, that would be a little time. Wait for this cool. Wait for this cool. Yeah.

If we are talking about Colopinto versus Paul Aaron, I do think if Paul Aaron was the favourite or more of an option, they would have put him in the car already. No F1s is telling for me. Yeah, and he's done a bit of work at Salba so far this year as well. But I just think they would have chucked him in the car a couple of races ago to see what he can do. Because Brito has shown that he's not afraid to chop and change where necessary. Why not give it a bit of a trial ahead of 2026?

There's nothing to lose. They're last in the championship. They're not going to be anything but last for the rest of this year. Give it a go. The fact that they haven't makes me think that they're not convinced. They've got all the day. Like, he's worked on the Sim all year. They know his junior career, which, as you say, is solid but not.

Guy loves a P3 finish in Junior Formula. He finished third, I think, in F2, F3, Italian F4, Formula Regional European Championship twice. Like, he just loves finishing third. But, yeah, I don't think his junior career has been enough to bolt him into that position. No. Unfortunately, I agree. He's just got given enough to make me go, wow. Like Arvin Lublov, for example, right now, he's a junior driver that you think young enough, excited enough, there's a pathway that could see him moulding to something spectacular. I think it's just shipped over for Paul. Do you think that there actually are any other realistic options out there now? I think that Perez and Bottas, they would have, they wanted both of them. I think that was it. I think that was it. I think they wanted both of them. I think they wanted both. If they went after both, and I think they got neither.

And I think that's telling that Alping, who are a current Formula One grid, were beaten by the unknown option. We spoke about this when they signed for Kagalak. And I think that was pretty much all they're getting. I think they might have a chance to pick up some rejects. The only option that you could get, in my opinion, that hasn't been spoken about, who we spoke about earlier on the show, is Yuki Sonoda.

If he's absolutely desperate for a drive, and they go, well, Gaslings are going to work well together. We saw how good they were in the junior team at Red Bull. there's a chance that it works there. But even that feels like a real outside choice for them. So, yeah, junior guys, alongside Pierre Gassley, who is much like LeCler in a worst version of prison, just further down the grid.

Imagine being in a worst version of prison. Like, you're already in prison, and you've got a worst version of it, Pierre. Welcome to Bad Prison. And he signed on for a couple more years. At least the Clair's prison is full of Pasca and he's in Italy. True. I mean, with Gassley, it's just,

No, I'm not going to go any further with that. The sausages in France? Moving on. Yeah, I think they were the only two options. They could have gone out and got Mick Schumacher or someone like that if they wanted to, but I think they're maybe just preferring to pick someone who is closer to the operation right now. He's a known quantity, and he wasn't great the first time he came in. I don't think there's any point in going back to something that didn't work particularly well the first time.

I do need to say before we finish this topic. this is absolutely 100% an abject failure on the part of Alpine. It doesn't matter what option they choose. It's a failure that they're in this spot going into 2026. It's been known for a number of years. And I say known because they have said it themselves. They think that their power unit is underperforming versus the rest. And because of the power unit freeze,

they can't do anything to adjust that. They haven't been competitive, at least in terms of winning races throughout this era of F1. They should have like Williams, like all the Audi like Cadillac obviously is a little bit different, but preparing for this new era of F1. And whether you agree with the decision or not, they've done that from an engine perspective. To have this, to even be in a stage where they're still picking their driver lineup at this point and they are having to go with the last two options available, that that's a failure. Yeah. Like with Williams, they've nailed it.

Like they've got, at least from a lineup perspective, they've nailed it. They've got Albin who's been there for a number of years signed on. They get Carla signs, great driver, won a number of races, and they are set. Alpine needed to be in a position going into 2026 where they had the line-up sorted. And they've had the drivers in and around this program over the last few years. They've had Piastri, Alonzo and Ocon all in and around, and they've got none of them. All three of those were going to be sensational with Gasly alongside. Yeah.

You look at that, go really solid, safe pair of hangs. If the car is good, they'll convert that into good points. Now it's a blimming potluck of if you're going to get something decent out of this. If Briotori wants to come out and claim, like, we are going to, we need to win races in 26 to then be in a position to fight for a championship in 2027. If you are going to say that, you need to back it up with decisions. And they haven't done that from a driver line up perspective. No, I agree.

Absolute failure. I think it's a representation of how shoddy and disorganized the entire. at LP organization is right there. Well, who knows? Maybe someone could come in and fix that. Coming up after the break, we've got top five on Christian Horner's potential landing spots in F1.

Welcome back, everyone. We're closing out today's episode with a top five, and we're going today with Christian Horner's potential landing spots in F1. So it's been confirmed that his Red Bull exit

is done and dusted. It leaves him in a position to join an F1 team from 2026. He's been given 700,000. billion pounds as a result of the buyout, so he's financially doing all right. So he doesn't need to come back to Formula One, but you kind of feel like the itch of the sport might still be there. So we're going to run through our top five potential landing spots

for Christian Horner from least likely to most likely. Now, there's only 10 going to be 11 teams in the sport. And unless you've done an absolute curveball sound, I feel like two of them are completely out of bounds. So we're not leaving ourselves with many options here. So I feel like numbers five and four maybe are going to be pretty unlikely. But he's going to land somewhere. So what have you got number five? Yeah, well, you say that. It's not completely unlikely, but maybe in a different spot to your list.

I definitely think it's on your list. And we did just speak about them. I have Al P in five. So they are the messiest team in Formula One. And with constant leadership changes, no clear long-term vision. It's a proper works project. It's something that he's going to have to sit down if he were to take it on and break it all the way down to its most basic level and try and rebuild it again.

And there is an appeal for him in doing that, I think. He did such a good job with Red Bull when he first came in to build that into the empire than it now is, that it makes sense that it would be a very similar journey. But I think, unfortunately, with Alpins corporate structure, the politics around Renault, I don't think it's the same level of authority and freedom, the Christian Horner hang at Red Bull to do this at Alping. And that's why it's actually quite far down my list. Whilst I think Alping is logical in terms of how much work needs to be done

and they need a strong hand at the helm, I actually think that Horner might end up being a bit of a kind of a fake profile at the front, a face to lead the way. Well, again, the politics and the confusion is still going on behind them. So unless they were to give him complete freedom to run this organisation, I think Alping would manage to scrover, one of the most successful team principles of all time. And that's why I actually think it's quite far down my list.

Number five, I've gone with Ferrari. Now, I think this is pretty unlikely, hence why it's number five. The reason I've gone with Ferrari here is because even though Fred Vassar has signed a long-term contract quite recently with the team, and that's why it's not very likely, Ferrari are probably the one team that won't care about that. Like, if it doesn't go well, they will find a way out, whereas other teams might be stuck with someone that they don't necessarily want. If this new era of F1 does not work out for Fred Fassar and for Ferrari, the media, the Tofosi will be on the back of the team to make a change. And I don't think that they will shy away from someone like Christian Horner.

He's a big personality. You kind of need that in the Ferrari team principle, Ron. So there is pressure on 2026. The reason I've got them here rather than other teams that also have pressure on 2026 is I think maybe some of the other roles have a bit more leeway. Like maybe they get a year or two of grace. I'm not sure Ferrari with the way that they are would give that to Fred Fassur. So very unlikely, but I can see at least some weird way into the future where this happens. It's number four on your list.

Number four for me is, I asked about this, Ben, when I asked how to phrase the answer to this question and you gave me a very helpful pointer, it's a wildcard team. This is the kind of a new entry. This is something that might open up for him over the next year or so that he spearheads the effort to bring in the 12th,

the fabled 12th team into Formula One. Back to 24 drivers on the grid like we've always wanted and dreamed of. It's been too long, 24th grid spot. We've got no room. It got no room for your business. big cars. He brings, despite the controversy, instant credibility to any effort. I hate that, unfortunately, with what went on, you know, you have to argue that he does still have this pull

for the corporate side of things. He attracts sponsors, drivers will be willing to move there. He knows so many people in the sport that if they need engineers and backing, he can do a lot of the heavy lifting to get a team that is new to the sport, at least a good foot in the door to get the moving in the right way. I think that despite the controversy, he is a new team's dream figurehead. I think it is a real get me in the media, get us on drive to survive, get the press coverage going, but also he's not an idiot. He knows how to run an organisation that is very cut through and gets the job done. So for me, it's further back because the chance of a 12th team is quite unrealistic. Right now, you know, we're not hearing too many

murmurings of real quantifiable buyings right now, especially with the way Formula One tried to turn off the likes of Andretti and Kagalak for so long. So I think that's why I have it further down my list. But I think he would love to take on a whole new brand to come into the sport and be there. Essentially, they're guiding light into Formula One. Number four, I've got Alpine. I've titled this, I guess pretty similar to what you're saying here. I've titled it, he isn't going there to be team principal.

Like he's going there if he can make it Team Horner. similar to maybe what we've had at Red Bull. Like, he would need to be the, not only the figurehead, like he would have to have more control than what I think Flavio Brio Torre would give up. In fact, I'll go a step further. I don't think Christian Horner joins Alpine whilst Brio Tore is in the picture. I think he'd have to be completely gone because he knows what would happen. Like he knows that Flavio Brio Torei un officially stepping away wouldn't mean he's stepped away at all.

So unless he can have full control over this project and he has full power on decisions of what happens with the power unit, we know there's been a lot of talk about sale of the team. Unless he's the one with the control in those spots, I don't think he goes there. And again, like Ferrari, I think this one's pretty unlikely. But Alpine are desperate. So that makes it at least a possibility. He'd have to be CEO of Renault. Yes.

I mean, yeah, I don't know what the role would be, but he'd need... He'd have to have like a motorsport division of Renault and become CEO. It just, it would... It's like a succession story, like out of the actual program. Yes. Number three, you got. Mercedes? Oh, boy.

Yeah, Horner to Mercedes. Definitely the headline grabbing option, this one. Yep. Sure. If Toto Wolf ever steps away and James Vowse is doing well at Williams, there is a power vacuum that you have never seen at a team like Mercedes. And I get that this is unlike, and this is why it's still three on my list. He is the most qualified option to step into that team.

He is the person with by far the most skill, the most options, and he would be able to maintain them as a team of serial winners. They would be at the top with him still. There's no conflicts with the drive. because I imagine he'd probably be like a sway Max Verstappen to come over with him. If Max Verstappen was still at Red Bull, it was a, you know, hey, come jumping with me and Kimi Antigelli. Bye-bye, George Russell, the guy that you hate. We could take this team to the top.

I just think he's such a results-driven guy. And I think Mercedes would be willing to forgive. I know that sounds silly. If Toto Wolf moved on and he became this shareholder in the background that was moving on to the wider Mercedes project and the businesses around it and left Formula One, as it seems to be It seems like it's so rumoured that Toto Wolf so regularly wants to do. We've had so many instances where he hasn't turned up to Grand Prix, he's had to take time away from the sport,

he's going to focus on other things, then he's had to come back. I don't know. It feels like if anyone was going to be able to wrestle the next era of the saying is. Christian Haller might be that guy. Terrifying, but it could happen again. I'll turn at future. Spicy.

I've got Aster Martin at number three. Now, the reason I've got Aston Martin this high is because I'm looking at the key decision makers of these 10 slash 11 teams and thinking which of them is going to be least concerned about chemistry problems and taking on someone like Christian Horner who has been very successful but is quite controversial in the world of F1. And I think Lawrence Stroll is maybe at the bottom of the list of those that would care. I think Lawrence Stroll is just looking for as many qualified people as he can, and he will work the roles around those people. He kind of did that with Andy Cowell coming in. Obviously, Adrian Newey has kind of got his own position now. I think they'd do the same thing with Christian Horner.

I don't think they'd be worried about, well, Andy Cowell is in this spot. Christian Horner can't take on that role. I think Lauren Stroh just wants to say, like, that guy who has won an F1. I want him on my team. So that's why I've got it quite high. the biggest barriers of this happening is Adrian Newey, because we don't know why exactly Adrian Newee left Red Bull and whether it had anything to do with the Christian Horner regime. But if it did, then you might have someone in the building who doesn't want that to happen. And if you want to keep Adrian Newey happy, I suggest you do so. So that's why that's the biggest maybe source of unlikelyness here. But I just don't think Lawrence Stroll would have many reservations about picking him up. What does Adrian Newey? What does Adrian? That's my next hit game.

We've got a new game. What does Adrian Nowie? And we ask Adrian Nui questions. And if he doesn't know them, we should do a shot. Sounds great. Number two on your list, Sam. I have now gone for the romantic option in Ferrari, the Tafosi. You are very right to identify that the political situation in Marangelo will chew you up

and spit you out regardless of your contract situation, who you are, what you're doing, they don't care. If you are not performing, if you're not delivering what you're saying you should be doing, they will find a way to get rid. And I love Fred Peser. I think he's a real breath of fresh air for Ferrari.

And there is a real part of me that hopes that he goes on to achieve something good for Ferrari because it seems like a really great guy. And I would like that to be a success story. But if he doesn't, much like Mercedes, there aren't too many people that they can lean on that are going to wrangle the beast that is the Tophosi and actually get something out of this goddamn team

for the first time in over 20 years for crying out loud. So I do think that if they want a cutthroat option that is willing to just say, Sod you, I don't care about what you're saying about me. I'm here to win. He's the guy that is going to turn around and he will try and make you win. So it will be interesting to see Charlotte, Clair, Lewis Hamilton, and Christian Horner at the front of a team. It's like a fantasy trading game we're playing.

at this point. It's not real, but I generally think it could be an absolute force to be reckoned with if they got it right. Feels slightly unlikely. I think Greg Bissert has got enough to get this around the corner and actually start having some success. But it's Ferrari. Who knows? They might have all been selling for another 20 years. Entirely plausible. I just can't wait until the first driver in F1, who hasn't been alive for a Ferrari championship, because we're not far off that now. Who is this Red Team? Is that Alpha Romeo?

Do you know when you were like, oh, yeah, I support the red car because they always won't. You know who they were. It's just like the red car. I like the red car. They won't have the red car. No. They'll have black car. No.

It's not even red car anymore because of that blue HP's sponsorship. Oh. Number two, I've got Cadillac, which I appreciate would mean going back on their word where they kind of said, we're not, Christian Horner's not part of the team. They kind of shut down the rumor. But if there's interest from Christian Horner, that is tough to turn down because Cadillac will need all the help they can get next year. Like, they are better position to join F1 than many new teams before them. The likes of, you know, Hass. Haas did a good job that was partly related to the model that they joined with. Do we need to say much on the likes of HRT? Like, it didn't

work out well whatsoever. You need people who know what they're doing straight away in the building. And Christian Horner would be that. What role he would take? I know they've kind of got the team principal role set. But if after a couple of races next year, because I don't think he can join a team until maybe a couple of races in 2026, if Cadillac are floundering at the bottom.

Yeah, I can see it. Yeah, I can see it as well. It was definitely, it's kind of up there with that wild card team option of that kind of new entry. It makes a lot of sense, realistically, for him to be at the helm with something brand new. What leads your list? Number one, you've already mentioned it, Aston Martin. Why would he not consider Ashton Martin? Why would they not consider him?

Apart from if Adrian Ngui is something that we don't know, or he was the reason for him leaving in the first place, is either do we take Christian Horner or Adrian Ui, you take the guy that can see air particles move, unfortunately. Sorry, Christian, even you don't have the power on that one. It claim he did, but... Sure he would. You should be like, Adrian Ui's got the eyes of a slug, and I've got the eyes of a hawk, or something like that.

I'd rather be a hawk than a slug. Hawks eat slugs for breakfast. You're right, the culture doesn't matter. They've got Fernando Alonso in the team, who is willing to do anything to wing, so who cares if Christian Hawley's a bloke that sits there. And we've seen some driver pairings come up in this conversation already. But that relationship of Nui, Horner, Cowl and Alonso with that backing.

And stroll. And Scrow. The Sherry on the three team. You go to the Hydra meme where they've all got the really serious dragon faces. I was thinking of the clown meme in the army. Yeah, the army and stroll, Horner, Nui. Oh, Land Strohl's taking a battering on these last few episodes. I'm sorry, but...

Look, Lance Strong was qualified the top 10, and I'll go easy. Yeah, I think this is genuinely the most realistic option. It feels like Red Bull 2.0 at this point. You know, the Honda engine is moving there. He has a great relationship there. If him and Louie are still actually amicable and close, that makes total sakes for them to continue that working relationship. Frangelo-a-Longsen would absolutely eat up that leadership.

He would love the opportunity. You know, we spoke about him. even. I don't think he goes anywhere if that's what happens. The wind tunnel is sublime and is exactly what he wants to develop that team. And the unprecedented budget that Christian Horner could play around with is phenomenal. There we have that previous relationship with Ashton Martin as well, of course, from early sponsorship days of Red Bull. I do think that Mr. Bigstrel, Papa Stroll, is definitely the kind of guy to turn a blind eye on Christian Hawker antics if it means winning Grand Prix. I'm not saying that's right,

but he's the kind of guy that would happily go, I might look the other way, because we're going to be first in the championship. Yeah, I think that's where it realistically sits. What about you, Ben? Big number one. Big number one, the wild card option, Team 12. Okay.

I think it is maybe most likely that he goes off on his own. And I don't know, you're right, there isn't like a concrete effort from a team 12 at the moment, and there would be a lot of barriers to entry. But could, I mean, you do have the potential of a North American consortium featuring one, Otmar Saffnauer. And I want to see that happen. Where is that going to come out?

He's been going on about this for months. No, he's got to look after his kids all right. Give him a break. That is trying to do with a nine-time. Child care is expensive, Sam. Nine children on the go when he's driving around that Ferrari. So I think maybe that comes to be, there's rumours of a rehashed cateram, maybe that comes to be, I don't know. Stop bringing that game into Formula One.

Maybe it's... Yeah, but the catering livery's, man. Yeah, but let it die. No, I like the livery. Let be little cars around Bragg's hatch. I like the livery, though. But yeah, maybe it's something else completely different. But I just think overall, Christian Horner will not settle for being...

a team principle. I just don't think he'll settle for having that one and only role. I think he will want more control than that. And I think this is probably the easiest way to get it is via a new entry. Imagine if Ford's go, making the engine isn't enough. Oh, boy. Well, there you go. That is our top five list. That is our top five list of potential destinations for Christian Hornet in F1 from next season onwards. Now, before we go, we do need to say a very, A very warm welcome. A happy hello to our good friend, the Father Christmas of birthdays.

Because this time does say, Happy birthday. Happy birthday to your little boys and girls in September. Yeah, happy birthday, everyone. You share your birthday month with the Rizzler. So a big boom to all September babies out there. I hope you have a lovely birthday month. Now, this is how you get on for your birthday shout out.

You've got to be in our Hall of Fame. here on Patreon. You send us your birthday via the little chat feature. Just send it. Don't wait for us to ask you. If you're sat there waiting, just send us a message

and we put it on the notes here. So thank you to everyone that supports us at this top level. So Brandy, September 30th. Oh, happy birthday for two days' time. You get this early. Sineva, happy birthday for September 24th. Jamie Bishop, September 10th.

Happy birthday to you, lovely person. Steve, Delapien, September 28th. I hope I've said that right, because if that's French, that has gone so badly. Stick figure was boring. September. Did you know that thing? I didn't know that. Thank you for let me know. There you go. The 2D wonder. They're a stick figure.

Rob Bischoff. Bischoff. Is it Biscoff? I hope it's Biscoff. I'm going to Biscoff. Rob Biscoff, September the 7th. You're a tasty treat, I'm sure. Sam Pope, September 10th, happy birthday. Dan Bullville, September 8th. Happy birthday. Joshings, Santonio, is there of the other Josh's. It's happy birthday to you for September 14th.

Jugg O'Keefe, all of September, happy birthday. Nate in California, September 11th, happy birthday. Kevin Watson, 13th, September, happy birthday. Shapsed up, Blake, August 2nd, who missed showing their Bidot two years ago. I love that that's written in a cell. You've got to say it's three times now. Happy birthday, happy birthday, happy birthday, to Blake who's on the 7th, missed their birthday, two years ago row.

Thank you for support us for that long, by the way, Blake. That's amazing. Or, should I say, Balake? Iran. Ron, happy birthday to you. And finally, happy birthday to Aga, who is on the 21st of September. Thank you so much to everyone that supports us. It means so much that you do, spend how much time and your money and your effort.

So thank you, thank you, thank you. Happy birthday to all. Indeed. And as Sam says, if you've got a birthday coming up, particularly if you're an October, baby, make sure you get your birthday shoutouts in with us on Patreon. via message and we'll make sure they're read out in about a month's time. Sam, we've got a preview to do midweek. Oh, we're back to racing.

Are you sure, Ben? I think we are. The longest race ever. Yes, it is time for the sweatbox of Singapore. And honestly, the full book goes out the window. So that means bizarre bold predictions. Crazy you pull one, two, threes, and you never know what actually might take place over the race weekend.

We've got the preview midweek. We'll have the sprint review. the race review and then power rankings will come on the Monday after. So loads of F-1 content. Thank you to everyone, the community on non-race weekends, but we're back to our race previews and reviews this week. Thanks for joining us. We will see you then.

In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.