The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Hulkenberg coming BACK to F1?

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Despite being a man down still, Ben and Harry bring you another cracking edition of the Late Braking F1 Podcast. This week they discuss whether Hulkenberg could make a comeback, discuss Aston Martin's signing of Felpie Drugovich, and play F1: Overrated/Underrated... JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead and me, Ben Hocking. You know, whenever there's two of us, I get incredibly worried I'm going to do that intro wrong and I'm going to like say that I'm actually Sam Sage or your Sam's Harry. I'm just glad I get it. It's coming.

I'm going to get it wrong at some point. But at least for this week, it seems to be all right. It's just the two of us. But I have to start with this, Harry. You must be delighted because as of last podcast, I believe your name of late breaking light has been transferred over to Sam. Oh, yeah. Sam is, he missed.

Sundays he's missing today. Is he missing next week's as well? Not sure. Maybe he's bad by next week I think. Oh well there you go. He's missed two on the bounce and not this time through surgery which is a flimsy excuse to not be given the late breaking light name in my view but it's fine we run with it but this time he's on holiday so yeah Sam. Lightbreaking as we're going to call him. I'm very pleased to have lost the nickname for now I'm sure it will be returned to me in due course.

I'm going to go controversial here, and I'm going to say that surgery is a valid excuse. Soft. Such a softy. Yeah, fine. I mean, yeah, it's a shame. Sorry, again, folks that like the podcast or like Sam, basically, I'm sorry about this, because there's two on the bounce now where he's not here. But at least I am here for an entire podcast this time, this time.

because everyone liked Laura too much, so I've had to come back full time. She is now banned for 12 months, pending an investigation on that one. What can we do to make it feel more like Sam was here? Oh, what'd you have tea, Ben? Ah, I'd add some pasta, mate. Is it pesto pasta?

It is indeed. It's like a classic. the pizza from for Sam and then Pesto pasta because it's the quickest thing you can make after you get home from work.

We're always in a rush folks, yeah, we care about you. We do, we do and we are recording on a Tuesday but that's my bad. Sorry. Yeah, nice one. We've got plenty to discuss.

Obviously this is the first time for a number of weeks, actually, that it isn't a preview or a review episode just off the back of a triple header. But because obviously the Russian Grand Prix isn't taking place, we've actually got a couple of week gap now before we get to Singapore,

racing around the streets there in early October, believe it or not. But still plenty to discuss. We're going to be playing F1 overrated, underrated, a bit later on in the show. We're going to be discussing Felipe Drogovich being announced that Aston Martin as the reserve driver and as part of their youth set up. Stefano Domenicali talking about reverse grid sprint races.

That one sure to be a tame topic. Never know. But we'll build up to that because we'll start with the outstanding hash seat. Now we know that Kevin Magnerson is locked in for 2023. That's a done deal according to his contract. However, there is a question mark as to who will be alongside him. Now, of course, Mick Schumacher is in the seat at the moment and he remains an option for the team to do so again.

However, a number of names are popping up. We've already heard Antonio Juvenatsy's name pop up. but one that's come up in the last few days is Nico Hockenberg, who hasn't had a full-time race seat for a few years. So, Harry, do you think that the Hulk should be considered for this seat? I mean, this silly season has felt particularly silly, if we're being honest.

Just like random drivers. Yeah, just random drivers being plucked out of thin air for seats. When I say seats, is basically the Alpine and... the house seat, which are basically the only two big ones left, apart from maybe Williams. So there are only two big ones left. Yeah. Oh, savage.

It's way too early for that. We're only five minutes in. Yeah, should Hulginberg be considered? No, I'm a little soft spot for old Nico Ogdenberg, but I don't think so. He was a very solid driver in his time. Yes, he never got a pony. in which is an ongoing joke,

some through skilled from some through bad luck. But I feel like he's had his time in F1, which is rich from someone who is delighted that Fernando Alonso is going to stay into these 73. Sure. But it just does feel like he's had his time. I don't know what Hass are gaining by having Nico Hockenberg back in F1.

I don't know they've got KMAQ back, but he's a known quantity for them. just feels like they should be investing in well either Mick Schumacher or do they invest in Daniel Riccardo but Hulk and both for me no offence Nico I just I just not sure it's

not sure it's a sensible move I don't know what they're gaining apart from some experience it would be another it would be where they were effectively in 2019 at the end of 2019 when they had KMAG and Grosjean

and they got rid of both of them for a reason I know one's had to come back and yes that's probably a good call but they got rid of both of them for a reason so also can you imagine a K-Mag and Halkenberg line up with the... That'll go well. Yeah, the whole...

Can I say this? I can bleep it out. The whole suck my balls, honey, comment back in 2017. If anyone didn't see that, go on YouTube and just search for Holkenberg-Magneson. Some variation of what Harry just said.

And it'll come up. One of those key words. YouTube was, the algorithm will sort it out for you after that. Yeah, famously didn't really get on that well. So again, that would be surprising, a surprising move. But yeah, I just, I'm not sure about this one. Doesn't seem. I think if I had the choice, I think if they're going to commit to the future,

maybe they, I think they should keep Mick Schumacher. If they want to get a driver who can probably race at a cheap price and potentially be good, potentially be good. There's Daniel Ricardo right there. So Holkenberg doesn't make a lot of sense for me on this one, I don't think. And as you say, you have a soft spot for Holkenberg as well, to the point where teammate wars rolls around every year and without fail, Harry picks Nico Holcomberg

when P. Moore's in F1, right? Never failed, mate. Never felt. Apart from what he did. Daniel Ricardo turned up. Yeah. But anyway. To the point where I'm pretty convinced that if he joined Mercedes

alongside Lewis Hamilton, you'd probably go for Holcombberg in teammate wars. I feel like a bolt of lighting would strike me down if I didn't. Yeah, exactly. And the point is someone who has a soft sport and someone who clearly believes in Holkenberg quite a lot is still saying, no, it's probably not a good idea if you're has. And I am with you on that. I don't think this is a route they should go down.

And with Nico Holcombberg, he was in Formula One for 10 years, 10 seasons or so pretty much, essentially from the beginning of the decade to the end of the decade, right, covering the 2010s. And in that time, he was pretty much the definition of a safe pair of hands, right? We obviously mentioned quite a lot. He never had a podium. He threatened it a few times, but it never quite materialized. but he was a really solid driver, picking up regular points,

particularly in his force India days, just week in, week out, fifth, sixth, seventh, sixth, just churning them out very regularly. So I think there's a lot of place for someone like that in Formula One. So if you were to look at, say, Red Bulls position where you know Max Verstappen is the driver on the other side of the garage, makes a lot of sense for the driver alongside Vastappen to be a safe pair of hands like Holcomburg or indeed like Perez as he's in that spot right now. Makes sense. Similarly with if you've got

a rookie in one of your cars, so let's take Alfa Romeo as an example, they've got Zhiguan Yu in one seat. It makes complete sense again to have a safe pair of hands in Valtry Bottas in the other seat to complement it to make sure that you're not going too far in one direction or the other. but does it make sense for Hass? No, it doesn't, largely for the reasons that you gave Harry. And I would say as well, a bit of a caveat on this with Nico Hockenberg. There is uncertainty. He hasn't had a full-time F-1 drive since 2019, right?

So it has been a number of years, and we know that for some drivers, taking a bit of time out, it works, and it's great. Alburn's probably a good example of that and actually while I've mentioned his name, best of luck to Albin on his recovery after a few complications from his appendicit surgery at the weekend. Get well soon, Alex. But he's probably a good example of someone who left F1

and it benefited them. But there are other, probably even more examples that go the other way, like Esteban Ockon, that didn't really benefit him at all being out of F1 for a year. Now, Holkenberg, by the time 2023 rolls around, would have been out of the seat for three years. Now, I appreciate he's done a few standing jobs for Ashton Martin since that point, but it's not really the same thing, is it? So there is a bit of a risk.

You know, would you be getting 100% of the old safe pair of Hans Nika Holkenberg or not? I don't know. But regardless of whether you get 100% or 50% of him, it's not exactly an exciting option just based on his age, his lack of progression that he's going to have at this point in his career. And you are dead right, Harry, is basically. just going back to the same point they were at a few years ago. Now, I appreciate Grojean perhaps was not quite a safe pair of hands in the same way that Holcomberg was. They were perhaps at different ends of the scale, but they were both very experienced.

And Magnuson was also already quite experienced when 2019, 2020 rolled around. You know, they did get rid of both of them for an all-rooky lineup for a reason. It's incredibly rare that a team goes to an all-rooky lineup, yet they did it. Now, for Mazurpin, it didn't work out, obviously, for multiple reasons. But if you're also saying it's not working for Schumacher, you've basically just done a full 360, right? You've just basically gone back to right where you were with Magnuson and another driver in his mid-30s. That's basically the situation you were in three years ago.

And you bailed on that for a reason. So there's no real reason to come back to it. And I don't think this is, I don't think this is a good idea. And with Mick Schumacher, you've mentioned this point multiple times, Harry, and I've mentioned it a few times myself. If you're that unconvinced by Mick Schumacher, fine. But surely, based on what we've seen with Mick Schumacher in junior formulae, you want to give it a little bit longer to see if this 1.5 season jump happens. Because for whatever reason, it always happens, European Formula 3, Formula 2.

it takes him a long time to get into a series, like get into that car. But when he's, when he's there, he's off, like, and he's good. Surely you want to see, you've almost, you've gone through, you've waded through all the mud, right, of Schumacher's first season and a half. Surely you just want to at least see if that happens, because it's going to look really weird if suddenly Schumacher, that there is a flick of a switch. and at that point Hasco nah, don't worry about it mate we'll get your eyes exactly

it'd be like I liken it a bit to Honda it's like Honda spent years and years in Formula One as an embarrassment and were ridiculed the second they got their you know what together we're off but you've gone through all the bad years

to get to this point and now you're going that feels like what they would be doing with Schumacken. If they are that unconvinced that Schumacher is not their future, fine, but at least try and find someone who might be. Like, at least Teo Porcère, if he's not in the Alpha Romeo next year and they keep Jeo Guan Yu, give him a go. Robert Schwarzenman potentially, he might be an option as someone you might want to give a go

in that sea. I don't know. I know he's been getting quite a lot of TV coverage recently in terms of the F1 races as Ferrari's test driver. Maybe they're liking something up there. but yeah, I would probably go for one of those couple of drivers. And to be honest, Joe Vanazzi, I would throw in the same sort of position as Holkenberg. He's not as good as Holkenberg and is not as experienced, but ultimately,

if you were going to replace Schumacher, if they think Schumacher's underwhelmed, are you really going to replace an underwhelming driver for one and a half years for a driver that underwhelmed over three years? That doesn't make a lot of sense. So I probably, Ricardo, I think I agree with you on that as well. So, you know, go for someone better than Holkenberg, Ricardo, who has a higher ceiling, or probably the preference, go for whoever your future is, whether that Schumacher or someone else.

But you can't just go back in a full round in a circle, can you? Come on, come on, Hass. Yeah, and I think you're right. There hasn't been maybe the complete evidence that one and a half years, switch has happened, but you've got to say Schumacher's second half of the year so far has been better than his first. I mean, he's crashed less. He's regularly out-qualifying Magnuson.

Magnuson, yeah, exactly. So maybe, maybe that... He's obviously aware and other options, but maybe that is happening maybe slightly slower than it has done previously, but we're getting to that point. So even if you put him on a one-year deal, yeah, if it doesn't work after next year,

fine, you've given it a shot, but you're right, I'm not sure it's worth, he's worth dumping for a G of it. I mean, Giavin, no offense, Antonio, lovely man, but come on. But he could barely outrun an aging, an aging unbothered Kimi Reichenen for three years. I don't think he's going to stand a chance against KMAG, so yeah, I don't get that one either. Although that would be quite an interesting situation for next year

to potentially have, you know, a Formula E champion coming into the sport in Nick DeVries and Jermanazzi, who might well have been last in the standings. I appreciate that's a lot car-driven, but still, that'd be a bit odd, right? Yeah, he's at a terrible year in Formula E, but anyway, gloss over that one. Yes, indeed.

Yeah, it's an interesting one with Gio. We'll get on to Felipe Drogovic in a bit, but this just feels like, If they're not convinced by Schumacher, do you think they could have acted just a bit quicker on Trugovich and gone for that? The F2 champion. Maybe they're worried about getting new F2 champions.

Fair. Fair. Got trust issues. Yeah, there would be a sense of replacing a driver who has taken a couple of years to win F2 with another driver that's taken a couple of years to win F2. So I get it. Can I just say as well,

because we're not a professional podcast, You might have heard a noise while Ben was talking because he slammed his laptop like up of the air and then back down again. Yeah, I'm just getting prepared for the sprint race conversation to be honest. He's turning into the Hulk. Yeah, on topic indeed. Yeah, I mean, let's face it.

They should probably go back to Esther van Gutierrez. Oh, Esty Goetz, yeah, for sure. I always forget he did the first year in house. It just like, it raises it from it. I've always assumed Manglinson was always there, but he wasn't

without the first year, was he? He, for whatever reason, he, like, had this weird tendency of finishing 11th,

like nearly every race. I'm actually going to have to look this one up because it was weirdly common. Because he barely scored any point. Maybe he didn't score any points. I can't remember versus Grojean, who had a fair few. But let's,

let's have a look, folks. So he managed to finish. Life that man. Yeah. Exactly. He managed to finish 11th five times in 2016, and he finished 12th another two times,

and then 13th another three times, and he finished 14th, but he did not score one point. That's harsh. Oh, he didn't score any. Bloody hell. I can't believe this. He was in F1 for three years.

He only scored points on one occasion. He had seventh at the Japanese Grand Prix in 2013, but he never scored a point outside of that. I think that I might rather sums up his Formula 1 career now I mean fair I just thought he scored a few points

here and there but no he did not wrong you are so he was there hang on

he was a 2013 did he have a year off oh maybe maybe maybe did 13 14 and came back 16 I can't remember I don't know

why we're talking about Espancutier Yeah, that's a real tangent. Should we take a short break? And then we'll get back to Steve Sunday's comments because that could be interesting. Yeah, go on then. Let's do that. So, Stefano Domenicali has been saying a few things.

We believe there's going to be a few talks in between now and Singapore in terms of the future of F1 and a few potential rule changes. But nothing too confirmed on that. but he has said a few things, particularly relating to reverse grid sprint races. So he was quoted as saying that each session should be giving away points or it should be a single collie lap or it should be a qualification for a separate race on the Saturday. He said that there is beauty of having reshuffles in the race. It's more overtaking and we have an obligation to try. the fact is they've already had an obligation to try

and it was turned down by Mercedes and a few other teams as well I believe this isn't the first time that reverse grid sprint races have been on the cards do you think that there is a chance that this time there's more follow through and it will actually become a reality Harry?

I don't know if it's left up to the teams I feel like the Big Orden's at least a couple of them will turn it down again. But I get what he's saying about we need less practice and maybe more, well, okay, I get what you're saying about less practice because I agree. Less practice is better.

The teams have still too much time, three hours beforehand, to get themselves sorted before a race weekend. There's too much time. There aren't enough unknowns and that point of view. So I'm happy with that. I don't, we don't need,

don't need contrived. Tell you what, as a starting point, let's sort out how we finish a Grand Prix with safety cars. And then maybe we'll think about the older. Good night, good eye. I actually, well, folks, you know, I was at the Grand Prix,

so it's hard you don't get the, full picture when you actually had to race. So I watched it this morning, just the highlights back. What were they doing for all of that? I know we're a completely off-stopping now, but what were they doing? That was just ridiculous. So, yeah, maybe let's sort out the main show first. Because we don't need reverse sprint qualifying one-lap shootout.

To be fair, I was a fan of the old one-lap qualifying one-lap, qualifying back in the day. But I think the format we have now is still better. So it builds up to more of a crescendo than that used to. So yeah, I don't know. I agree with the initial point of, we need less practice. Yes,

what you replace that with, I don't know, but it shouldn't be bloody sprint race reverse grid. Do a lap on your head first then do a cartwheel races. We don't need it.

It's too contrived. Don't need it. Don't need it. In terms of the one shot quali, what you brought up there, I am also at heart like a massive fan of it because I do think like one attempt to go out there, no opportunities to mess up. I do as a concept really like it. And I actually wouldn't mind them exploring how that could be done almost within the current format. So we back in the day when it was sort of one at a time and there were a few occasions where

weather would come about and it would just be a little bit of a farce. And yeah, I don't necessarily think we need to return to that. But you know, could you have it? So during the session, you can go out at any point, a shortened session and go out and say, you know, maybe it's just Q3 possibly. I don't know. But you just have a, this is my lap. And if you mess it up, That's it. I'd be interested in see how that could be incorporated. But that is slightly off topic. In terms of the question at hand in terms of reverse grid, sprint races, God, it's difficult to say.

Long-term listeners probably know what you're in for already. Anyone who's slightly newer, welcome along. To be honest, the last few months, my ranting and IA has gone more towards Ferrari than it has sprint races. But it seems as if Stefano is like, he's come along and said, well, Ben has another rant on this for a while. Let's put out a quote just to rile him up a bit. Let's get those downloads up.

Cheers. Cheers, Steve Sunday. I think that's what Steve Sunday's done here. I'm worried because it feels like they are, and it's not just him, it's the FIA generally, but it feels like they are a bit dog with the bone about this in that it's been turned down before, not that long ago, they've brought it up again. And even if it goes wrong again here

and they still come back and say, no, we don't want it, I wouldn't be surprised if in six months' time it returns to a discussion. Again, it feels like they are really insistent on getting this done, and that worries me greatly. I would say this, because there is a funny part about this in terms of reverse grids and whether they should happen or not and, you know, providing entertainment. We saw at the Italian Grand Prix.

Italian Grand Prix, you've only watched the highlights back and you were there, Harry, but I'm sure most people would agree it was either the worst race of the season, the second worst race of the season, or I think possibly at best, third worst race of the season. point being, it's in one of those spots. It wasn't a good race versus some of the others we've had. But there's a bit of a newsflash about this because we were about 90% of the way there to reverse grid folks. We had Lewis Hamilton started in 19th.

We had Carlos Signs starting in 18th. We had Perez outside of the top 10. We had Max Verstappen starting 7th. Okay, it's not a true reverse grid, but also it's far closer to a reverse grid than the average race would be, and it wasn't a good one. Did anyone think, oh, that was a fantastic race because of how much Hamilton fought back through the field and signs fought back?

I mean, you can look at their performances and say they were good, but also it's not, because they have such an advantage over the midfield, it's not like riveting action to the point of, is it going to happen or not? There's an inevitability about it somewhat. even related to like Max Verstappen. He started even further back at Spa, which is what would happen in a reverse grid sprint race scenario.

He waltz through it. And I don't want to downplay his performance at all because it was excellent. But at the same time, it's not like there was much intrigue around it. It was just an inevitability as to when it was going to happen. So I don't know if this was the right time to actually bring this back to the table in that we kind of had a trial run of it. Oh, you know, more overtaking.

Having reshuffles in the race, that's great. we just witnessed a bit of a snooze fest where there was reshuffling up and down the grid. I am worried this is going to happen at some point, whether it's now or later than I am worried. Don't say that. I am. I hear you.

The problem is there is like a logical reason for the teams to do it, even if deep down like they don't want it from a pure from a purest standpoint. Because as much as I hate spring races, we have to accept the fact that whenever sprint races have happened,

more people have watched Formula One over the course of a weekend for longer. More people tune in for qualifying on Friday than they tune in for practice sessions. Including us. Oh yeah, mugs. Yeah, mugs. But it's like

there's a financial incentive to do this for F1 and the more money the F1 makes, the more money the teams make. And I think you're right in that the top teams or the least top one or two teams might keep vetoing this to the point where it doesn't happen. But even if a team like Williams thinks this isn't good for F1 generally,

it's difficult to turn down such a financial tick. I don't know. That's what makes me worried that it might end up happening. But I don't know. You make a very valid point. about, and I've kind of thought this for a while, the notion of mixed up grids, they're like, you know, going to a weekend, you go, oh, it's going to be a really mixed up grid, it could be a, could be a cracking race. And you're right, it could be, but most

the time it's not, because as you say, it's just the faster cars picking their way through the slower cars until inevitably they're back of the front again. And is that actually an exciting is that an exciting thing to watch? I don't think it is because what you want are the fast, you want all the cars, the faster cars to be bastling each other at the front for the

race win. And what you're doing there is like just making the inevitable, like denying the inevitable, you know, it happens 30 laps later than it was going to happen anyway. So yeah, and that's obviously where the concept of a reverse

grid comes from anyway, but you're right, I think it's if this, and it's not in overrated, underrated, I'm afraid, but if this was in overrated, underrated, I'd say it's overrated, mixed up grids. Doesn't, doesn't do much. Just have normal grids. I feel like to an extent it's also just smoke and mirrors in terms of this sort of gimmicky thing comes along as a result of there being something wrong.

And if you think there's something wrong, then you should probably deal with that rather than think of something to come up to combat it. It's like if you need reverse grids, that means there's not enough entertainment. And if there's not enough entertainment, then I would probably say there's possibly something wrong with the cost cap in terms of,

if the idea of the cost cap was to bring the teams closer together and bring closer racing, at least in terms of midfield to the front teams, that hasn't happened. So you could either address that, or you can introduce a sprint race where the slower cars maybe have more of a chance. I would rather tackle it from the other angle

and say, okay, there isn't enough included in the cost cap at the moment. There are still too many things that sits outside of it. And also, are we policing it well enough to the point where the dominant teams are still way too dominant. That's the way I would look at it at least. Yeah, I think you're right.

It's not, you don't need gimmicks. you need effectively rule change. I feel like it happened more back in the day, but you'd have like a rule change just like in 2005 when they said you can only use one tire for a race. And that was because we just had five Schumacher championships on the bounce effectively. Bad for F1, as much as I loved it.

But bad for F1. And so that rule chain was effectively just to try and stop it. And if I'm honest, I'm not mad of that because we had a way better year in 2005. and that was the end of the Ferrari dominant. So yeah, I think that's where you go. And whether it's rule changes or changes to cost caps, etc. I think it doesn't matter,

but it's something that needs to come from that. That level are not trying to, you know that meme, they're putting like a blaster over the leak in the water tank. That's what reverse grid sprint race is. Don't do that. Fix the water tank. Exactly.

Are you going to put that as a quote now on Instagram? won't you? Probably, yes. Fundamentally, even outside of the entertainment factor at all, I just disagree with it from a pure, I don't like rewarding bad performance. It's like, it just feels wrong. Like, I appreciate there are some sports like,

and I'm going to bring up, even without Sam, I'll bring up the NFL here. Yeha, ha, p.poo. Right? You're welcome. Where you have a drafting system where it, benefits the teams that aren't very good. So the teams that finish with the worst record year on year, Detroit, I'm looking at you. You always get like a really good, it was get like a really

good draft pick every year. So it benefits the worst teams. But the difference there is it's not in the games. It's outside of the actual action. Whereas sprint races is literally the points that are being what is literally the game. So that's why I just fundamentally. mentally think it's wrong. Yeah, it's a tricky one. You look at things like British touring car. I would recommend to anyone who's not watched it. I know it's very British-centric,

but they have three races in a day on a Sunday, which is crazy. But they do like success ballast. Or they used to, I think it's now done on like turbo boost. But so if you have good races, you get more ballast put on board. And because they have that, and people might say it's controlled.

they have really close championship fights as going down to the wire pretty much every year at least goes down to the last weekend if not the last race so it's things like that I'm not saying we do ballast for F1 but I don't know

we're on a tangent here but I'm just throwing out ideas Steve Sunday if you're listening he is a good fan of the podcast Big friend doesn't know yet but he is yeah if you're listening Steve give us a ring

yeah why not i i feel like to add to the point we're we're doing a very good job at the moment of including every other motorsport that isn't f1 we've already had a formula e reference and a british touring car reference i was going to add another one as well and i can't actually think what i was going to say now formulary no indica i said for you formula e i don't think it was indica i was going to mention something else weck um moto gp i was going to be i was going to mention motor gp could you imagine what the rule change that motor GP have just announced in terms of every weekend

is a sprint race can you imagine the same thing in F1 just in terms of the in terms of F1 Twitter could you imagine I can't I can't do every Friday watching qualifying it's always on a terrible time

you know how hard it is is EU EU watches so yeah Yeah, don't do that F1. I mean, I feel like Stefano Domenicali, he's not that silly. He wouldn't do that. It's not a good idea.

Not a silly man is Steve Sunday. We'll conclude this segment with that, shall we? End on a positive. And I guess in the next segment, it's going to be positivity as well, because we're going to be talking about Felipe Drogovic. Felipe Drogovic at the weekend, announced as the Formula 2 champion with a round to spare as well. Good going congratulations to him

and even more congratulations are in order because outside of just winning the F2 championship, he has now been announced as the Asthmartan Reserve Driver and as part of a newly founded youth team academy. I can't remember what the exact words they're using are, but essentially a junior team at Aston Martin. Do you think this was a good move by them, Yeah, I think it was a sensible one. They don't really have like a junior, junior program or anything to tap into. So it's a sensible one to have. It's a difficult one because for Drogovic, it kind of almost feels like he's just,

he's just had to because he wants to be tied to an F1 team. Because realistically, is there a seat opening up there in the next? two years. I don't think so. So in that respect, I'm not sure. But it sounds like he didn't have any other options, which in itself is an issue because he was the Formula 2 champion. And yes, he took a few years to do it,

but he's still a Formula 2 champion. And we've had this discussion many times. So sensible move for Aston Martin, I think. For Drogavich himself, I'm not sure how well this go for his career remains to be seen. But it's a good team slash sort of program to be attached to because, as you've seen with Nick DeFries, all the Mercedes teams have this nice little link. He's tested almost every Mercedes car this year, bar the McLaren. So, and that could still happen. I don't know.

But yeah, so in that sense, I think that that's good for him. And it keeps him, keeps him sort of front of mind in that respect. So we'll get a few FP1 sessions next year, I am sure of it. Yeah. It was an unexpected. Oh, is he getting some this year? I think they're lining them up for, I think Abidabie possibly.

Yeah, well, there you go then. So that's good and you can prove himself there. So, yeah, it's I don't know how quite how I feel. This is classic me, but I don't know how I feel about it for him. But because I'm not sure where it goes. But we'll see,

we'll see what happens with it. I'm glad he has got a contract somewhere, but it's a bit of an odd situation, to be honest. And not the first time it's happened in F1. Yeah, I think you're right. It's difficult because you could look at it from both sides on this. You could look at it from the side of yes, there's not really anything obvious coming up,

and it is almost like, hey, I'll take anything I can get at this point. At the same time, I'd say two things. Firstly, if you were banking, on any multi-year deal in F1, unexpectedly going underwater for some unknown reason, I'd put the money on Fernando Alonzo very quickly because it's him. There's always the potential for something to happen. So I can understand that.

There is also the factor as well of he wouldn't necessarily have to compete against anyone if an opening became available. So you could say maybe he'd, joins the Red Bull Junior program, but at least at that point, he has to fight amongst 27 million other Red Bull juniors that they've got at the moment for that seat. If something opens up at Aston Martin, he can be pretty confident he's the one going to be stepping into it. So I can understand from that front, but I think you are right, at least in terms of progression is not immediately visible for him. I think this is a good move overall because, firstly, whilst we've

raised our doubts about Drogovic in terms of multi-year F2 champions don't always go well in F1 and we have raised our concerns on that but even so the way in which he has dominated the competition this year has been very impressive to win such a competitive championship a sorry I'll rephrase such a competitive spec series championship with a round to go, that is very impressive, regardless of whether it's your first year,

your third year, or your 30 third year, as Roy Nassan is going for next year. It doesn't really matter. He's got it. He's got it in the back. It's impressive, nonetheless, is what I'm saying. And I think he deserves that respect. I think he deserves a position with an F1 team.

And it's almost like if he's in an interview, let's put it in an interview scenario. and you were to say, okay, what is his CV? It's a very easy thing for him to prove. Like, you know, if you go for a job and you're asked all these questions, you have to prove yourself, right? You have to sit there for an hour and answer questions and say, this, this, this is why I'm great, this is why I'm great, this is why I'm great.

That list is fairly short for me, but I try my best to extend it out at least. But if you're drug of it, you don't even really need to do that. You can say, you know, he could have gone to any of these. these teams that have a junior program, you can go to Red Bull and say, why should we have you in our junior program, Felipe? Why are you? You can just go, well, you know how yeah, you know Lawson, yeah,

you know Owasa, yeah, you know Deruvler, yeah. Well, I'll beat him all really comfortably. Well, that's, there's your argument. You don't need to say anything else. And he could do that for every single junior team. He can go to Alpine and say, well, yeah, I beat Jack doing. There you go.

He could do the same for Salber in terms of Porsche. You can do the same for Williams in terms of sergeant. You can go to basically every single junior team and say, look, why should you give me a chance? I'll beat all your drivers, mate. Like, what do you want me to do? And Aston Martin, it feels like everyone else has been really blind to it. And Aster Martin have gone, yeah, all right, we'll take him.

It feels like a bit of a P.E. situation at school where you've got like two team captains choosing everyone and generally it will go down from like the top ability to the bottom ability. And it feels like they've got like two thirds of the way through these F1 teams selecting their junior drivers and Aston Martin have gone, oh, Felipe is stiller. Why is he stiller? All right. We'll have him then. We'll have him. A bit of a freebie. And from Astor Martin's perspective, I think it does. I think it makes sense for them to start the foundations of a junior sort of program because if they have ambitions to be this team that is competing with the elites, that is one of the things they wouldn't even,

would you agree with that? Yeah, yeah, I think it's, as I said, they don't have, they don't have anything like this at the moment. So I think it makes sense for them. And to be fair, I think to the point of Fernando Alonzo and multi-year deals not sticking to them. He has a habit of that. So maybe I see it will become available sooner than anticipated there. So yeah, like you say, I think they need to start building that up, whether it's Trugovic is the end product of that. I don't know, but they've got to start somewhere.

And like you say, I think they've snapped up someone who's almost been forgotten about, which seems ridiculous to say, considering he is the Formula 2 champion. year. Yeah. It feels like if it happened a few years ago, it's almost excusable. But there seems to be an F2 and F3 now. It seems to be there are more drivers associated with junior teams than there are not.

It's like everyone around him essentially is associated with someone. And there's Driggovich just winning the championship. Like, hello, all right. I'm here. It's ridiculous, isn't it? It does feel a bit crazy. I mean, in terms of Brazil, obviously, he's Brazilian, and we haven't had a Brazilian driver for a couple of years.

Obviously, Massa was the last notable Brazilian driver to come through. Of course, Felipe Nasser just tried to copy his name, which was impressive. Didn't work, but it was good effort. Good effort, Felipe. Do you think that this is actually quite important for Brazil and Formula One? because it's always been one of F1's massive markets. Yeah, for sure. And I don't know, it's weird.

It feels like there should always be a Brazilian driver in F1. Same for an Italian driver. I don't know. It just feels like there should be one there. But we've not had one for a few years now, as you say, not since Massa retired in 17, I think. So, yeah, an important one. And important to have a successful one

coming up through the ranks as well for Formula One. So I'm sure Steve Sunday, he's got a lot of mileage on this podcast, but I'm sure he's been looking at that intensely as they look to expand the sport even further. So, yeah, it's good to see. Good to see that we've got another Brazilian sort of in F1 because, as I say, I think it's definitely important. We're going to have to put an apology out. I've just realized.

Oh, no. Pietro Fittipaldi, we forgot about him. Oh, I know it was only two races, but... I'm very sorry, actually, Pietro. Oh, blimey. Very sorry, Pietro. Last full-time F1, Brazilian driver. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what we said. It's what we said at the start of that, obviously. You can follow in the footsteps of Big Zonz. Pedro Denis are one of a couple of... our favourites. Hey, Pedro Denez. When's the last time

Pedro Denez was in F1? 2000, maybe? And what was he driving? I don't know. He drove everything, didn't he? He just went to a different team each week. Whoever will have me, lads.

I don't know. Don't know? Just give me a car. He did a bit for BAR, didn't he? Was he there last maybe? I'm actually going to look this up now. Another live stat man.

Another live stat man. I can't do the Stedman Oh sorry It was Zons at BIR Not that is When we're on But 2000 was his last year

Yeah He was at Salber in 2000 Salber Of course Got it Oh Pedro We miss you Yeah

What's he doing now He was on Beyond the grid a much inferior F1 podcast to our own. Going to issue a yellow card for that one, Ben. Can't be mentioning another podcast? Big up Tom Clarkson.

He was on there a while back. I believe he's farming? I could be wrong there. He's farming? But I feel like as a business. I could be well wrong on that. But... Petrin did it is on his tractor. I feel like...

To Nitz his farm. And what's big Zonts doing? Sorry, this is probably dull for everyone else. But now I've got a real thing about what do to F1 drivers do, like the lesser known ones. What do they do after they finish being F1 drivers? No one beats Jaime Al Jarsari, but... DJ.

DJ. Ricardo is onto, I've got no idea. Let's have a look. Come on, Big Zons. What are you doing, land? What's he doing after racing? I'm sorry, he's still racing. No, what's he racing?

He's still doing stock car in Brazil. I thought he gave up. I'm going. A lot of them, because Master does it, and so does Barry Keller. They just go off and do Brazilian stock car forever. He won a race earlier this year. Oh, big Zont. What did you mean?

He won. What a Dromo fellow sitter. Oh, well, the classic. He was runner up in the championship in 2020. Get a one. way. Who won it? Ricardo Maricio, of course. Tell you what, though.

He beat Barrakello and Nelson Piquet Jr. Hey, by how much? They were sixth and seventh. They were Mars back. Absolutely nowhere. Absolutely nobody's. But Barakello, Barakello's got the edge of this year. Barrichello's fourth at the moment in the championship. But he is still ahead of Nelson Piquet. Zontas 8th and Pee.

K's nine. This is Junior, obviously, folks. Yes. And very, very off topic. Anyway, sorry, this could be a conversation that doesn't get broadcast to lots of people, so we'll move on. Good idea. We're going to play F1 overrated, underrated after this short break.

So we've got a slight dilemma in that we are going to play F1 overrated underrated, but of course, Sam sings all of our jingles absolutely live every week. without fail, no doubt about that whatsoever. Shall we dial him in? Okay. By the wonders of technology. Beep-boop, be-boop, beep, boop.

Yeah. Ring, ring. Ring, ring. Sam? Keep you doing an impression of Sam. Yeah. Samie, ah, Sammy, bollab is. Resto takeaways.

There's like he's in the room. Sam, would you mind just say? Would you mind just doing the overrated, underrated jingle that's definitely live? Yeah, hi, yes, sir, I'd love to. Overrated, underrated, what else does do we give? What way will they go? Overrated, underrated, what a week's shoes come to see the show. Overrated underrated!

And for those of you that occasionally ask, we've had a few of these recently, for those of you that occasionally ask, is that a theme song that we've stolen from somewhere? No, no, no, no. It's an original. Pure original. Absolutely, absolutely original, not nicked from a children's TV show

that we're shown in the UK. Nope, definitely not. F1 overrated, underrated is really straightforward. We've got three things. That sounds vague and it's vague for a reason because it can literally be anything. It could be races.

It could be drivers. It could be a concept. could pretty much be anything within the world of Formula One. And we just basically have to give our opinion, is it overrated, or is it underrated, or is it about right? And then we get complaints about being on the fence, but it's our game, so we can do what we want, basically. Yeah, don't care.

If you've got a complaint, tweet at Samuel Sage F1. Yeah, he is our main complaints department. Let's start then. Overrated, underrated. We'll go with the track that we're going to next, which is Marina Bay in Singapore. Is that overrated or underrated, Harry? First time we've been there for a while.

It's the first time we've been there for a while since 2019. I'm going to go with underrated. I like Monaco, and I know these two, the one that's here and the other one that's here, and the other one, obviously Sam is here because he just sung the jingle. Oh, yeah. But late breaking light. don't like Monaco, but Singapore

is what maybe Monaco used to be. It's a great track, and it's such a challenge. It's one of the longest races in human history. I don't know why it goes on so long, but more if one is fine. We go from

Monza, which took like an hour and a 20 minutes, and then we go to Singapore, which almost takes two hours. A really long lapse, but they have lots of them. It's hot. bumpy, there's always lots of tired eggs and marbles get offline, the barriers are really close and it's easy to make a mistake. It's a great track and often turns up a pretty belting race.

So underrated, I think it gets overlooked in a lot of people's top tracks on the calendar. I mean, I know it's not been there for a while, but normally it's a staple of the calendar. So, yeah, underrated for me, I'm quite excited for F1 to get back there because I think it could be a good weekend. Now, I think you were, you were fairly delicate about your comparison to Monaco there in terms of maybe it was what Monaco used to be. I'll go a step further. It's everything that Monaco dreams of being.

It is way better. Shut up, Ben. Yeah, I will say it's underrated as well. A little bit underrated. massively so, but it is underrated. I love it for a few reasons. I mean, firstly, it is just a unique physical challenge. If you've never seen a Singapore Grand Prix before,

and there are going to be a lot of people listening along that have never seen the Singapore Grand Prix live, just pay attention to the drivers after the race in the call-down room, presuming we have one there, just any team radios at all. They will be absolutely knackered. They will be out for the count sweating buckets because it is such a physically difficult race, unlike anything else we have on the calendar.

So it gets a tick on that front. And also, I think, secondly, the venue is great. I think lit up it. It's fantastic. And I do think there are some great challenges and more overtaking opportunities than, say, Monaco would represent. It's still not, you know, there are still a few dud races that happen at Singapore. And it's not one of my absolute favorites, but I still think it's underrated.

And I can hear Sam literally rolling his eyes. I was going to say from across the other side of the pond, but actually he's here, of course. So I can see him. Le big wet. He will roll his eyes at this. Can you imagine a situation where, let's say we rock up to Suzuki. And Suzuki's like, you know what?

We like our track, but we're just going to change one thing. We're just going to remove a corner. We're just going to, if that's right. Oh, God, here we're going to. Let's just remove 130R. Is that all right? Yeah, all good. No, that wouldn't be okay because 130R is an amazing corner and it is the best one on the track.

But wait, that has happened before because there was a great corner at Singapore. It was called the Singapore Sling. It was a fantastic corner and they got rid of it. I'm still not over that and it happened a long time ago. no. A long time ago. Like, like a real long time ago.

Yeah, to be fair, I know you're rolling my eyes too, but Singapore Sling was, if you haven't seen it, folks, it was a left,

right, left chican, but because it was such a small chican, they just used to like straight line it, but that's quite delicate, it's quite a delicate

needle to thread, and the curbs are quite high. And you got punished for mistakes. Yeah, yeah, and you're totally right. If you go and look up

Singapore Sling crashes, because there's a lot of the buggers. What about, we're looking at the future with that last one. We'll look at the very near past for this next one. Triple headers, underrated or overrated, Harry? Overrated. I don't mind a double header, and it's good. And, you know, for our downloads, triple headers are great.

but from a from a from a from a I don't know fan spectator uh point of view I know we've got an empty slot because of because of sochi but I'm way happy with like two weeks on a week off two weeks on and even for for people

um for people who work in f1 it's a killer and you're seeing now even like f1 uh even um broadcasters like sky in Channel 4, they're regularly switching up their team because there are so many races and things like triple headers, which means that they can't run the same team the whole year. So, yeah, from that point of view, it's too much. And from my, yeah, from my point of view, I love F1, but there's almost a bit of a

saturation with it. You've got one, two, three on the bounce. And then you go off and have none for three weeks, which is just odd. So overrated for me. I'm not a massive fan of triple-headers, which seems odd to say because it's just more F-1, but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing. Yeah, and I think we always have to bear in mind,

whilst I think all three of us would probably watch a race every day for a year and not complain. Correct. There is, you can't expect everyone to be that way, and there is some sort of fatigue when it comes to three races. in a row. I think I agree with you that sort of two out of three weekends is about right. And I think three on the bounce is a bit too much. I understand logistically, it might make sense to do so at some European tracks like we've just had. But I think given the overall

impact on the welfare of the team, and it's not even really about the drivers, to be honest, it's just not fair, I don't think. So I would, I think most people, probably are around our view on this. So it's tough to say it's that overrated, but I still think it probably is a little bit overrated. I just think they could be a bit more sensible about it. And to be fair, they have cracked down on them a bit more this year versus a couple of years ago. I know 2020 kind of enforced it a little bit, but it's not a regular occurrence now, which is good at least. So yeah, I. I would say a little bit overrated.

And I appreciate if there's nothing that could have been done about this, but the Russian Grand Prix has been cancelled for quite a while, and we've known for quite a while that nothing is going in its gap. Maybe efforts were made to move one of those three we've just had into next week or the week after. But it feels logical that one of them would have just gone back a week or so. yeah it's um i was thinking that earlier as well why could we not have shifted italy to next weekend or or zanvalt or any of them i don't know it's uh yeah i don't know it feels like we're complaining about having lots of f-on which i guess we're not but um it's just it's just a bit too much

bit too much um and then the last one on overrated underrated today uh joe guan you so i'm gonna i and i know I think I put him as the person he'll be last in the championship this year in our preseason bend his mid-face let's not talk about preseason predictions it's too painful yeah I definitely think I've had

and last so sorry Joe going on you and Nicholas Latifie you are now last in the 20 driver championship and you're 21st yeah he's for me underrated this year and I think he's been unlucky but he's been absolutely solid.

And, you know, in comparison to his teammate, Valtry Bortez, who's also had a good year and also been severely unlucky, I must add. Shreikwainu has turned up, in my opinion. He's been, he's been there. And I feel like he's sort of flown under the radar. I'm not saying he's going to be future world champion or anything like that, but I think he's,

again, a caveat that I put him last in my previous predictions, but he's exceeded my expectations by a long shot. And I know he had some success in the junior formula in Formula 2, but it was never quite as consistent as I thought it would need to be to transfer into good pace in Formula 1. But again, he had another really solid race in Monzo. He's unlucky to miss out on the points. But, yeah, underrated for me.

Did he not get there? I thought you got a point. Oh, did he get the last? Oh, yeah, DeFries was ninth, Joe was 10th, sorry. Again, see, I'm just exceeding my expectations. I'm so sorry, Joe. Yeah, okay, good race and answer.

Yeah, I think with Joe Guan Yu, I've already said this before, once or twice this year, that that's probably where I've been most wrong this year is I thought Joe Guan Yu was not going to be up to the task of being an F1 driver. And he has been. He's been solid.

And, you know, I give him a lot. of respect for that and he deserves a lot of respect for that. I would still say he's a little bit overrated just based on, I think people are giving him probably a bit too much respect as to what he's done this year. I think he has been solid. So if we're comparing him against preseason expectations, good God almighty underrated. But if we're comparing to what people think of him now, I would maybe say a little bit overrated just based on, he has been incredibly unlucky. And I've mention that on multiple occasions, but of the team's 52 points, he does have six of them.

It's still a long way off. That's a percentage. Yes, it is. It could be higher is what I would come back on that. Okay. Fair do. Interesting point. Take it to the board.

Yeah. Interesting. yeah i'd i'm gonna say he's a little bit overrated versus where the expectations are now but just to say that he is doing far better than i thought he was going to preseason so he's got the last laugh really also he's an f1 driver so of course he has the last laugh over me

yeah he's been sent us for a bag of chips both of i don't know where sound put him but maybe all three of us have been mugged off there. I think what did Sam do? I think he might have ended up putting him last possibly. Well, sorry about that, Joe.

That's on us. Yeah. We'll take the L on this one as the kids might well say or might not say. That's what they say on TikTok. Yeah, they say. Down with the kids and all that.

That'll do it for overrated, underrated. Sam, who has been here the whole time, but just hasn't wanted to give any opinion. Sammy, what will I mean? Overrated, underrated What artists do we give? What way will they go? Overrated, underrated

What a weak shoes Come to see the show Overrated, underrated Great kind of sound to dial in Yeah, I mean, it's very kind of him And the good news is he's back full time next week The Dolcet Tones of Mr Sage Back on your earwave lengths

Back in your headphones I'm always intrigued. Do you think more people listen to us through their headphones or on speakers? Like, I can't imagine it's like blaring out speakers. Oh, okay. Kind of weird that we're just like talking into your ears through via a headphone. I mean, I'm saying this. I don't know why I'm worried.

We do a podcast. I'm not sure why I'm quite worried about how we're listened to. I think you're right. I think you're right to be concerned about this. Twitter, at Lbreaking, It leads very well into our conclusion here. At Lbreaking, hashtag team speaker or hashtag team headphone. Let us know.

We'll put a poll out on Twitter and everyone can... Which one are you? I might add a third team car. People listen to us while they drive. I mean, if there's a third option, you know Skyler's all over that. Cheers, Skyler. Yeah, right. Yeah.

speaker, headphone or car, I guess. And if you've got a really obscure way you listen, let us know and see if that is the most obscure one out there. Like, do you listen? I've had a few people say recently that they listen whilst going around the supermarket, which I think is great. That is excellent.

Oh, I'm just going to get my milk. Yeah, ha! And then just going to grab some cheese and it's me getting, you know, I can't make a decision. I appreciate that. That's covered under team headphone, of course, but it's still interesting to know,

unless you carry a speak around a supermarket, I guess. You know some people, like a boombox with us coming out? You know some people listen to podcasts or they go to sleep? Do you think we are that sort of podcast? How on earth could you sleep going to listen to us? Just as you drifted off and there's like me and Sam shouting, Yeeha! Soothing.

And the good news is for next week's episode when Sam's back, Sam being back means Sam is back doing outroes. So you don't have to listen to us stumble through them. But we'll do our best. So where can you find us? Where can you find us? Twitter, we are at Lbreaking, as previously mentioned. Get involved over there.

It's fun. Instagram. I couldn't remember it. Is it late breaking podcast? Or is there an underscore in there? There isn't. Okay, cool. No underscore. We got rid of the underscore. We did. Late Breaking Podcasts. That's where we are on Instagram. We post occasionally. We try to be funny. We rarely are. Tick-Tock. You can follow us there if you want. We just don't post anything because we're too old. We're basically just. Actually, I might try and do a one from Monza. I didn't get that many videos. I'm not sure it's going to work. But stay tuned, folks. There could be a new TikTok. Ignore what I just said. We're down with the kids.

Okay, carry on. We do, of course, have Discord. So you get involved in Discord. The link is in the description, as it always is. We've got about 1,200 or so people chatting Formula 1 in there. It's a really great place to be. There are loads of random chats as well. If you want to talk, if you want to talk NFL with F1 fans, you can do that.

If you want to talk about your cats, you can do that. Yep. People regularly do. Food. What you had for dinner. Yeah, that regularly comes up. too. Patreon,

we're on there. You can get ad-free podcasts on there. Add-free podcasts. Discount or merch. Is there anything else you could want from your life? I don't think so. No. No, I don't think so.

Do we do anything else as a podcast? Arguably, we do too much. That is, actually, I know what I was going to say. I was going to say and we haven't done a push for this for a while because last time we did we ended up in fits of laughter over horror histories

reviews really help us when you leave nice reviews really do nice reviews I know it's very beggy and we don't do this all the time but it's it just it just helps when you leave

five star someone the other day left us a bad review but still put five stars. And that helps. We'll bloody take them. So yeah, if you want to leave, if you hate us, want to leave a bad review, fine, but just put five stars because the algorithm will be like, they're good podcast. So five stars. Lies. Say why you love us. And just feed our egos a bit. Yeah, exactly. And I would say as well, I'm going to be talking to one person very specifically here. Someone left us a review not that long ago. And you use the, word Gaffor, which is a fantastic word. Thank you. That made me laugh. So appreciate that review.

Made you Gaffaure. It did. A full on Gaffaughan Gaffa. And with that, we will leave it here. Who have you been, Harry, this week? Who have you been? Oh, no. Why does this always catch me out when it's not Sam doing it? This week, I have been... Oh, my boiler's going as well. I've been my noisy boiler. There you go. And I've been Ben Hocking.

And remember, keep breaking late. Good of course, how do you do outro? Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.