The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Is Sergio Perez in danger of being REPLACED?

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

This episode was recorded prior to Tuesday's announcement of Ricciardo replacing De Vries at AlphaTauri, please see our previous bonus ep for Harry's take on the news, and tune in on Sunday for the full LB breakdown. Sam, Ben & Harry consider whether Sergio Perez is in danger of being replaced at Red Bull, and whether they each would stick with him or look elsewhere. They also discuss whether Piastri was the right call by McLaren, the newly released 2024 calendar, and the delay to Hamilton's new deal. They finish with a game of F1: Higher or Lower.. SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking   JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm   JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: https://fantasy.formula1.com/en/leagues/join/C3CCEW8P704   TWEET us @LateBrakingF1   BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/   EMAIL us at [e-mail]   SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. It's another triple LB episode. We're all here for not a preview, not a review, just a standard episode. Sam, I don't really have anything to just go over to you. Normally I've got a nice segue, but I don't have anything here.

So I'm going to ask you a question of, what is your least favorite phrased used in and around the office? Oh, gosh. That's incredibly niche, but I love it. Go. Oh, I don't know off the top of my head. Let's take this offline. Oh, that's not a good one.

Absolutely hate it. Let's take this offline is a real, you know, disgust. I would just want to check everyone's aligned. Oh, yeah. Are we aligned? Are we parallel? What are you talking about? Yeah, get on with it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely hate that. Yeah, deep dive. Oh, yeah. Should we do a post-mortem? Who's died? No one. It's a business. Or a wash-up.

Oh, I've not heard that. Do a wash-up, you know, a post, you know, launch or something, wash-up. Americans are listening. I work with a lot of Americans in our day job. Let's sing-a-gize on this. Sorry. What? Yeah, so great, great question.

Nothing to do with F-1, but love it. What's yours? Yeah, you got anything? Right back out, yeah. What's your question? Deep dive is definitely up there. I'd also go with Circle Back too. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's a common one. My mum, you know, like, you know books you read on the loo before like, smartphones for a thing that everyone had that you could sit on the toilet with, right? Yeah. My mum bought me a understanding the world of office jargon. It was about taking the Mickey out of the classic office jargon,

just to read while I was doing a poo. I also hate reaching out. Oh yeah, yeah. Can you just reach out? I'm just reaching out. To where? A lot of meetings that could just be emails as well, do my editing. Not a phrase, but just hate it.

I think we've forgotten this as a podcast. Yeah, we've probably gone on this for all the full hour. I'm surprised we've got two minutes out of it, but here we are. As Sam has alluded to, off air, offline, we'll circle back around to it afterwards. We are talking contracts a lot this evening. So quick run through. Lewis Hamilton, he still doesn't have one. We'll be asking why.

Kastri, he does have one. He's still at McLaren. We'll be asking whether it was a good idea on reflection. But we're going to start with another contract to it, which is Sergio Perez. So we know that Perez currently second place in the driver's championship. He is 99 points behind Max Verstappen. at the moment. And of note, at the same stage last year, he was 34 points behind Max Wastappen in P2. Notable quality mishaps as of late. No Q3 appearance in a in a long time,

it feels like. So Sam, we know he is contracted until the end of next season. But do you think he is at risk at all? And then a bit later on, we'll get on to what you think actually should happen. But do you think he's at risk? Well, a little quote came out from lovely helmet the other day. Sure. And he said, no risk at all. Yeah, but do you trust what helmet market says? I just feel like that man has no filter.

So he just says whatever he genuinely believes. And in a way, I kind of respect it. Him as a person, that's a different conversation. Do I think the circuit is actually at risk? I think logically you have to evaluate where the car is, what's happening with Max Verstappen, and how he is performing. and it's hard to say he's not at risk.

Is this realistically what Red Bull wants to see achieved every single week? What happens if something happens to Max at the moment? If Max falls unwell or has an accident that puts him out of a race or something like that, right? Red Ball no longer dominate. Red Bull no longer league every race. Red Bull no longer lead the points tally for, you know, pretty much anything.

Surgery President only just holds on to second place in the championship. It's not promising. And the security blanket that is Max Verstappen, throw him over you, snuggle up nice and warm, you know, he's gone, he's been ripped off you and now you're shaking and cold for the night with the little leaf blanket of Sergio Perez trying to keep you secure. It's not good. So, it works. Everyone gets behind it. So, you know, Sergio, as much as I have a lot of respect for him, this is arguably one of his worst seasons to date. And the fact that he is, you know, a good 60 points behind in comparison to where he was last

year. When you've all remember that last year, Ferrari were also completely in the mix. So more logically, it was acceptable to lose points more regularly, because the likes of Lecler and Sainz would regularly be taking away second or first or third, because they were right up there in the competition. That really isn't the case here in this season. We have seen gaps no, no, more smaller than seven or eight seconds when the staffing has crossed the line. And, you know, they have boarded up to, if you remove safety cars as well, 25 seconds for Max Verstap and winging, there's enough space, enough points,

enough availability for Sergio Presby picking up second or third. Every single Grand Prix, he's not the logical decision it says, while the car is this good, why don't we give someone else a go, allow them to grow into the sea, give a bit of contract time? I would be shocked if they aren't slowly now monitoring very realistic options to take over

come the end of this season. So you think he's at risk and, as mentioned, we'll come on to exactly what you would do in a moment. Harry, would you agree with Mr. Sage? That's me. Is it? Yep. Yeah, yeah. I have a surname.

Good to know. Mr. Mr. Tage. I forgot my name. God. Cing Tings. Throw back.

Circle back to that joke. No, stop it. Stop. Yeah, look, he's, every race that goes by and Sergio Perez keeps fluffing up, qualifying and not finishing where that car deserves to be. it gets riskier and riskier. And five in a row he's had now? Five in a row.

That's not a good look. And it's bad timing because Mr. Ricardo is jumping in a red bull tomorrow to do a Pirelli test. Yeah, right. I mean, he is actually doing a Pirelli test, but that's not what they're using it for. And obviously, he's not going to, they're not going to replace him with Danny Ricardo. But if Daniel Riccardo starts getting back in the fold with Alpha Tauri even, it's, it's, it's just, just bad timing for Checo. So, as you say, if he shouldn't be,

and I am the fan of the club, but he should not be anywhere near Fernando Alonzo in the championship standings. Astemite having a great year. You sound proper done with him. You do. You sound more miff than I am, and I thought I'm usually the more mift of the three.

I'll just fed up, mate. I'll tell you what, it is hard to do anything five times in a row. Exactly. You know, we can't make a good podcast five. times in a row. You know, I...

You take a 10% success rate. Yeah. You know, a lot of the time, four out of my five dinners are all right, and one of them tends to be a bit of a, you know, I've been cooking for, you know, quite a while in my life now.

And that's, that's, you know, I should be going to get those out of the park quite regularly. God. Surgey Prares, right, an expert in his field, cannot get out of the Q2, Q1 area five times in a row.

Yeah, I just, I just think, again, I made, I sort of made this point on Sunday, yesterday, or yesterday. Sunday. Sunday. you can't he shouldn't be but you can fluff up your qualifying as long as he recover but he's not

even really recovering to where I think he should be so yeah I just think championship wise he should not be he should not be 99 points behind fastappen I know the staff has been very good but I think worse that there's even a risk that alonzo could be challenging him for second place the statistic that Vestappen doesn't need to ever win again this season to win the championship already blows my mind it's a bit savage isn't it second place for the rest of the season, regardless of who's first, and he's won. Yeah, so look, I'm not saying,

I know Red Bull, and as you say, Christian Horn has said it in Austria. Helmut Marco, as you say, said it again now, which is unusual for Red Bull, because when they get fed up with the driver, they just get rid of them, or they really start to talk about getting rid of them. So maybe they, maybe they are sticking with them.

But as you say, the Max Verstappen safety blanket. It's a lovely one, too. Very plush. Yeah, I could imagine. Orange. It'll be merch still. Yeah, bright orange. Right orange.

Yeah. That safety net of Vastappen, you know, they're lucky he's there because otherwise they would not be doing as well as they are. So it's getting riskier and riskier for Perez. I'm not saying it's game over yet. He's got a good chunker races to turn it around for himself. But he cannot keep doing this. One thing I've just noticed and appreciating we do have a few more races. this year than we had 10 years ago, but certainly at the rate Perez is going, we're looking

at a 200 point gap after 20 races. We're starting to talk Vettel Weber sort of distance from 2013 or so, aren't we? That was probably, I haven't got the stats on me, but that was probably around 200 points, I'd guess. Is that one of the most, is Mark Weber as much as we love him dearly? That season, big of a shocker, right, from Weber to be that far away. from your team, mate, in that car. I think by 13, I think he'd gone. Washed his hands of it.

I think, yeah, by 13, he'd already made his mind up he was leaving to go to WEC, wasn't he? I have some pride, sunshine. You don't care, mate. Don't care, got the money, got the dough. Anyway, a bit of a random detour, but to illustrate the point,

we aren't halfway through this season yet, and there is essentially a 100-point gap between the two drivers, in which case this could become, if we carry on at this rate, a pretty large margin of victory by Vastappen by the time we get to the end of the year. I guess the first question that needs to be answered here is not necessarily about replacements, but it's instead about would Red Bull move away from a driver who has still got a year left

on his contract? And to which I would answer, yeah, they would. If they felt it was the right decision, it's the same situation as McLaren and Ricardo were in last year. They decided to move on from Ricardo. He still had a year left on his deal. They were happy enough to pay Ricardo, however much money it was. They would do the same thing with Perez in a heartbeat if they felt it was the right decision. So I think we can say, yes, he is at risk in that they wouldn't, that wouldn't stop them, right?

I think generally, though, you're only as at risk as the options around you. So you could be a nine out of ten driver. If there's a ten out of ten driver who could be coming in to take your sales. and he's available, you are at risk. Equally, you could be a four out of ten driver, but if there's only ones and twos on the market, you're probably safe. So it is a bit relative in that regard.

And I think Perez can be somewhat happy in that there isn't anything that is a slam dunk replacement for him. There are a few options, but there's nothing that is, yes, that would definitely work. So firstly, I would say, I don't think there is anyone internal to Red Bull. I'm going to put Ricardo to one side, but in terms of the Alpha Tauri seats

and junior drivers, I don't think there's anyone there that would take his seat. Yuki Sanoda, Nick DeVries, Liam Lorser, I don't think any of those are options. So I think he put that to one side. I think you've then got the two options of

option one, looking outside of the Red Bull program, which is what they did for Perez, or option two, Daniel Ricardo. And again, I don't think either are great because option one, there isn't the only driver that's out of contract at the end of this year

that is good enough to be in that Red Bull which we'll get onto later is Lewis Hamilton, right? And I don't think... That would be banter. I would love that. I don't think that that's going to happen. I can't wait for this to be replayed in two months' time

when he's driving for Red Bull. They're best mates now. Have you seen that? Their best mates now. Yeah. They get along it all the time. Fancy contract Lewis. Yeah, right, mate.

Unless they're literally in the cockpit of the car when they turn into rabid animals that cannot stand each other. But on a sofa, yeah, I think you see they're on the Maxwell Experience podcast?

It's good, wasn't it? It's some of the greatest photoshopping I've ever seen. It's so good. I've never, I thought it was real. Yeah. Should we employ Photoshop

to make it look like people are on our podcast? We have employed Photoshop many a time and it is flawless every time. Good. Some of time.

Anyway, there was a point in there somewhere. Oh, Lewis Hamilton, don't think that's going to happen. In which case, they'd have to look at a driver who is not out of contract by the end of this year, someone like a Ferrari driver or Lando Norris, and there are questions about whether any of those teams would actually want to make that happen.

So that is one option that doesn't seem completely obvious. The other option, Daniel Ricardo, going back to the scale, I said, from like naught to 10 to 10 out 10, where's Daniel Ricardo on that scale? Who knows? Dan no. I've got the clue. Could he, let's just. just say, hypothetically, he turns up in a Red Bull next season.

Could he be a two out of ten? Yeah? Could he be an eight out of ten? Sure. There's no... He's always a ten out of ten. I mean... Surely that's why they must be looking...

I know DeFries is helping this course there, but they must be looking at getting him in that Alvatari. Well, yeah. What's the point? Of... Put Ricardo in Al-Fatari. Well, they can see what... See if he's put McLaren behind him.

The car's going to win anyway. You may as well put him in the Red Bull. But then what if he's a two out of ten? Yeah. You could be a two out of ten. So you'll still win that constructors. So at the moment, he's a two out of ten. Maybe not next year, though.

They don't care. Okay. That's for me being the car, mate. That's why I don't get paid me. I don't like I fight that. Yeah. So I think we're of Ricardo. Obviously, Ricardo's a massive risk.

It's going to be difficult to get someone external. So I think overall, Perez is at risk. But he can be buoyed by the fact that there isn't like an obvious, yeah, that'll work. Definitely out there. Ben, I'm going to have to rip your stat man title away from you because the gap between Vetter and Weber was 198 points, not 200. Well, in that case, it's pretty much spot.

Hold on. I've got a new title for Ben. Prattman! Go on. Like a right sausage. Two points. You go, nothing. Says the man that say, hi, is how, Frankson. What's from Argentina?

If the gap's 99 points now, double that is 198, so... I don't want to hear your maths. Oh, he's had to us. Is that you? What do you mean he's Adi? You could just call him Pratman. I'm got a part of this. I am interested to see the evolutionist that man, though.

How many different mans are there out there? Hatman. Oh! No, I've got a hat. Catman. That's me. Ian? Batman.

I have the Batman. You know when you say something you know it's a mistake. Yeah. You know like when you see someone walking through like a busy space and you go, oh,

have you seen that guy over there? Who? That's man. It's some intro for a, for a great joke. I've got more lined up mentally now immediately. Oh, you know what?

There's a lot of words that rhyme with stat. Ratman. You know when, um, Fat boy slim grows up. He becomes a fat man. Fat man slim.

All right. Let's move on. Sam, what would you do? Oh, right, yeah. Say you're in Christian Horner or Howard Marco's shoes. What are you doing? Probably change those shoes. It's so difficult because your point is exactly correct of

Sergio Perez is in a product of the red blood environment. And that means to me that when there are stresses around in Red Ball, you are so under pressure. Thank you, Queen. But when you are not surrounded by these pressures, you're free as a bird. You could do what, that was also a Logan, Sartreference. You could do whatever you want because he has been massively underperforming. We all know it. We know that Sergio Perez isn't inherently a bad driver, right?

He's had some incredible moments. And he's had a very solid and, you know, respectable career. but if you haven't got anyone challenged you for that seat and Daniel Ricardo is the obvious answer who is still a hell of a risk it's really hard to go make the swap

because you don't know if what you're getting on the other side you know the grass isn't always greener is it going to be worse certainly some references I mean that's an expression as well as from Travis

on fire cheers Travis I didn't think we get a Travis reference I thought it would happen at some point well there he is yes I mean I think I would, as the kind of person I am,

I would make the swap between Ricardo and Perez. Now those are a game now where they're all screaming. Gamble! Yeah, gamble! Take the swap. Okay. Take the, deal, I know, deal. Take the swap.

Yeah, no, I would do it. Sounds silly. I would swap it now. Blimey. Because the car is that good. And if they come out publicly with the understanding of, this is now to warm him up for the next season, then how bad is it really going to get for Red Bull?

It's not like Daniel Ricardo literally can't drive a car, right? He's only going to do as bad at the moment as what Sergio Perez is going to do, realistically. He will finish probably in the midpoint area most races on the worst day. Seventh or eighth. How many more points is he losing than Perez at the moment? I don't know.

Four or five. What you need to look at long term is, do you think that Sergio Perez at his peak now could be better than what Daniel Ricardo could be at his peak now? and I do still have that bit of faith that Daniel Ricardo's overall peak is higher than Sergio Perez's peak. So I know that is a rash decision.

I know that is a bit stressful for everyone involved and a bit scary, but they're in such a dominant and comfy position that I really do think that if any team's going to make that kind of rash choice, Red Bull have the ability to do so. Right now. Right here. Right now. That man's slip.

That man. Just reference. there, Kirsty, if you wouldn't mind just clipping those last two minutes, that will do brilliantly on social and everyone's going to come after us. Harry, what would you do? I do until end of season. Oh, really? Yeah.

Danny Tehrap. We're throwing them all in today. Very British today. Yeah, look, I think Red Bull have learnt from their mistakes to not make rash mid-season changes now. Yes. Pierre Gasley. Alex Howman.

Alex Hadwon. Danik of it. Well, Oh no. They keep going. So, and with Albon, the last driver that was struggling at Red Bull, they did give him until the end of the 2020 season to pick things up. And obviously it didn't go well for him. And that's why they brought Perez in.

So I'd give Sergio until the end of the year to try and turn it around. Because, and in the meantime, as I've already said, I'd then put Ricardo in the Alphattari from whenever they can contractually do that. I mean, they can do it whatever they want. I'm sure they can. But I guess they'll wait to the summer break and do it then. That's what they tend to do. So I, yeah, so I do that in the meantime. But I think Perez just needs to start showing again that he can be that he doesn't need to start beating Vestappen, because that's not what they employed him. He just needs to show that he can do the job that he's been doing in 2021, 2021, 2022 to a lesser extent, but be that that second driver,

because that is the entire reason they employed him. If they had, album in 2021, do you think, well, there could be, it would have been a more difficult path for the championship for Stappan, I'd say, I'd say. Yeah, I mean, they didn't win the constructors anyway, but I think they were a little bit further off. Exactly. So, um, he just needs to prove he can do that. So I'd give them until the end of the year to, to, I think you, if you take out, and I see your logic, because they are so far ahead. Yeah. And the car is good. I was thinking it's fun. Sam doing it for banter. I just want to go.

I guess for a good entertainment, you know. Would make a good podcast episode. Yeah, that's another, for the content. For the content. But I just, I think, feel like if you do that, then Perez is done, then. He's, like, fully done. Oh, yeah, he'd be out of the sport. Because what, and then what happens, if Ricardo isn't, doesn't stand up, then your

20-24 option is... Roll up, roll up, Liam Larson on the merry-go-round. Poor Yuki's never having a seat. So, yeah, anyway, that's probably the only reason why I wouldn't do... that. What Sam said. Do it. Do it.

Do it. Do it. I can't do it. Do it. Do it. If I keep saying, do it, what are you doing? I think then do it.

Just asking how much reference. So I would I would stick with Perez until the end of next season. Oh, the end of his contract. Yeah, the end of his contract. Yeah. But I would make sure that, to your point, Harry,

whatever they are doing with Alfa Tauri next season is fully dedicated towards giving themselves as many options as they possibly can at the end of next season. So basically, if you don't think Yuki Sanoda or Nick DeVries is ever going to have the potential to get in that Red Bull seat, get rid of them now. Like, there's no point keeping them around if they aren't, if you think there is zero percent chance of them getting a Red Bull Se. If you think someone like Yuma Owasa or Liam Lawson or someone else does have a chance, get them in the seat. because I think it's a worthwhile play.

So at least at the end of 2024, you can say, yes, we can keep Perez, cool, or we can go with Ricardo, or we might have another junior driver in Alphiari who's doing much better than expected, that's an option. And then outside of that, just have a few chats with Lando Norris.

You know, Piastri, I think, I heard Zach Brown's saying, Piastri is the future of McLaren, Lando. Might want to come over here. I heard Zach Brown say you smell, Lando. Yeah, exactly. So that's what I would do. You honk.

You're monking, boy. You're plenty stinking. You're bloody stinking. I'm in. We've got very cornish. Right, it's all gone a bit mental. We're going to take a break, eat some sandwiches,

and on the other side, we'll be discussing Oscar Piastri. More contracts. Yeah, boy! Okay, Oscar Piestri had a very, you good British Grand Prix qualified third, finished four for 12 points. So it's been really the first opportunity he's had to show how good he is halfway through his first season. I'm sure he's fortunate. He's glad that they finally got there with the car. Whether that stays or not is another

question. So what are your thoughts on McLaren making the move? We know at the time it was a bit controversial that they had to pay Ricardo in order for it to happen, weren't sure about the whole court deal with Alpine. Do you think at this point we can say it was a worthwhile decision or does more need to happen before you can say that? Do you think Othmar's crying into his serial? Yes.

I mean, both Alpings, out, Alonso, good points. Piastri, nearly on the podium. Alonzo P3 in the championship. Alonzo Pee through the championship. Piazsche's first time of asking with a good car pretty much sticks it on the podium. Almost levels the same result

as best result of Alpine all season. Yeah. I think he's probably more upset about the car than the line. I don't think he's doing cartwheels about the lineup, but the car is just not. They're smug about something, though. Smug about being crap is what they're smug about. Prestag is just a prank and that's what they're smug about.

That's what it is. We got you all onto 2024. We built a rocket for next year. Suckers. Do I think it was worth it? I mean, yeah, no, I do. I do. I think Oscar's had a really tough start to the season.

And that is through no real, fault of his home. I think he is being relatively consistent when the race and the car allows him to be. But what is consistent when your car is a tractor, it breaks down a lot, it has massive issues and everyone else is faster than you. Consistently

like P12, P13, every time he's had a chance to be near Norris or whatnot, he's relatively delivered. He's whatnot. Reserve driver. Michael Whatnot. God's sake. It's too hot.

It is too hot. Yeah, hang on. So Norris, whatnot. He has delivered. And then the first time of asking, you come to Silverstone, which is a really tough track when you're under pressure,

you've got, you know, Ferrari's right up your chuff. And other than a safety car, I think you're nailing third place in that race. And like we said, on the race review, I think the strategy

was actually tipped better to Piastri's favour. And there is every chance that he have got the undercut on Norris and particularly jumps me in the pit stop. face. So he could have been second beating Landon Norris. And that shows me the longevity that they have with Piastri is better than sticking it out with Daniel Ricardo for another season,

who was, we already know, went into his 30s, he was not performing well with how the scenario was going for him at McLaren. He hadn't been for the last year or so either. It wasn't brilliant at Renault, very topsy-turvy, had some great moments, had some bad moments. So when you take a, you know, okay, a bit of a tough bet, but it is a bit of a generational talent in someone whose junior career was so sensational. Yeah, a risk. But I think for the longevity, the team leadership, the risk that Norris could walk off somewhere else, as we've already just discussed with how you know, Red Bull are interested. It makes sense for both their future and for the now. We've just seen that Piastri could deliver when asked to, but he could also deliver in five years

time. The money, the investment that they've just given to him overall, it's all gone to Ricardo, but, you know, it's still like investment in him in a weird way. I think he's already showing that it's paying off. He's clearly a very cohesive, strong part of that team, and it was a risk that is paying off for them. Well done, McLaren. I think it was good. You bring up Lando Norris in that.

Do you think his leverage it somewhat disappears or might continue to disappear as a result of what Piastri can do? Because I think at least before Piastri, McLaren very much needed Lando Norris. And I'm not saying they still don't, but if they've got another driver that's capable of either very similar or maybe just slightly worse, does that mean that losing Lando might not be as much of a pain as it was maybe a year ago? I see the point you're making, but I think if, I don't know, Lewis Hamilton doesn't extend his contract

and Sergio Perez carries on in the vein that he's in and Ferraris do what they are doing, if Oscar Pulaski carries on moving the way he's moving, you need to keep both those drivers. And McLaren, in theory, have the best driver. line up on the grid. And if you want to fight at the front, if you want to win titles and races, you can't just have a Norris or a Piastri. As we saw with Ricardo when they were fighting Alpine, Ricardo was the outlier. He was what was weighing them down. He was causing them to struggle in that constructor's fight. You need to have both sides of the garage firing on all cylinders to be competitive. Now, I don't think that means that Norris loses his his age in contract talks or

in negotiations, whatever it might be, or sponsorship deals. I just think that. I just think that. I'm think that actually McClaring themselves just level up. They get a whole lot stronger. And you need both sides of the garage, right? F-on's a team sport as well as an individual players kind of game. You need both sides. This completes McLaren rather than allowing Landon Norris to walk away. I think if they lose Norris, they go back to exactly where they were two seasons ago,

where they're in a bit of a lost situation, only one driver looks good. Harry, do you think that McLaren are already in a position to say that they made the right move? I not quite yet that is not a slight on Oscar Piastri but what I will say is the car's been rubbish up until Silverstone or I guess Austria for Norris

and that might have worked in Piastri's favour here because he's had not quite half a season but a good chunk of the season out of the limelight a bit you know the car's been bottom of the midfield or mid mid midfield for most of season.

I bet they're maybe the sixth best car. Yeah. So they've not really been in the spotlight, not really fighting for points, etc. So I don't know whether, maybe that's helped him just hone his skills on the down low.

But what is really encouraging for McLaren is that the moment that the car became competitive, i. Silverstone, he was right there. He's right there with Norris. So, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to jump to it straight away and be like definitely justified,

but it's, we're a good chunk of the way there to justification. Do you think it's a bit of like the George Russell factor? You got that time in the Williams. I know it's like longer, but like then walks into Mosegis, boom, ready. I agree. I think it could well be. So, yeah, they got they got to be happy because last year there are occasions where Norris, well, Imola, he got a podium, didn't he?

But Ricardo was nowhere near him. So when if that's the, you know, that happens when the car's good and they're both up there, that's going to be, as we saw the weekend. a good chunk of points for them. So, yeah, if that continues, they're absolutely justified. I would just say we've only had one race so far, but so far, very, very impressed by,

by him just jumping on that. Because he could get really frustrated, especially after Austria and Norris did well and he didn't have the upgrades. He could have got all hot-headed and rookie about it this weekend and made a mess of it, but he was cool, calm, collected. It does seem very generally level, doesn't he?

Very terrible, man. That's because he's Aussie. They're all so happy. Yeah. Good for them. You raise a very good point in that about Oscar Piastri and pressure. It's something I hadn't really

thought about, but certainly his signing to McLaren was one of the more controversial moments in the last five, ten years of Formula One. And I'm not saying McLaren would have chosen this voluntarily, but certainly giving him the

opportunity to just stay out of the limelight, work on his might not have been the worst thing in the world. Imagine if they turned up to Bahrain and they had a car that was capable of winning or podiums and he isn't quite able to compete with Lando Norris that early on, which would have been completely understandable. Maybe it goes down a different direction, I don't know.

So I think that is a really good point. I would probably agree with you as well on, has it been worth it? It's tough to say this early on. I think certainly he's, doing better than Daniel Ricardo was doing last year. There is, the whole point I guess with this is there was that financial payout that they had to make to Daniel Ricardo, which I think was around $18 to $20 million, which is a huge amount of money.

Quite a lot. It's quite a lot. Yeah, I'd like it. And realistic, if we're talking championship positions as well, $18 or $20 million, that's not one position. that's about five. And this isn't a slight on Piastri, of course, but he's not worth five championship positions. So I think almost the answer to the question is Piastri worth it, is almost fully dependent on what McLaren knew.

Because if McLaren can't give him a car that is good, let's just say they can't give him a car like they had at Silverstone week in week out, then he's not worth it because they've paid all this money for him, but not giving him a car with which he can. actually contribute positively to championship positions and even championships maybe in a couple years time. I absolutely think if McLaren perform and in a few years time we look back at this question, I would like to think, based on his potential, yes, it will absolutely be worth it. But until McLaren give him something to work with on a consistent basis, I think it's difficult to say yes, it's 100% worked out because they had to fork out all that. money for something that has so far this season, at least 90% of the season, been a tractor to your point, Sam.

So I would very much like to see McLaren continue on this form. And then in years to come, if Piaz Street is either winning championships for McLaren or contributing to Constructors' Championships or at the very least contributing to wins, then I think at that point you can say, well, yeah, they forked that a bit of money, but they did so on a future generational talent. that's going to be worth it, sure. But it's probably a bit too early. You're wrong, Sam.

I'm glad we asked that question. Two out of three. Don't know. Same for the whole podcast so far. That's, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of what-ifs going on. Yeah. A lot of what-nots. Michael What-Nott.

It's good, thing it? It's something. It's going to drive for Pollock racing. Oh, got a whole lot. This is like a motorsport manager episode, building a team. Predator racing, yeah. That is actually a name of a team in the game if anyone thought that was just a weird reference.

Yeah, Ben Scott and . . Yeah, that's not going to get cut. Right, that's enough for that topic. We're going to take a short break. We'll be discussing. What are we discussing on the other side? The 2024 calendar. Yay!

Do we have to? Yep. Yes. That's the rules. 2024 calendar so bad job f1 you didn't release this in time this came out as we were at the williams fan zone event last week which means it was too late to make the the cut for the schedule so very poor of you don't do that again but we're going to discuss it now because it is quite important 2024 calendar there will be appropriately 24 races at least that's what they're aiming for starting with barrain second of march and then ending in Abu Dhabi, as it always does, 8th of December. A few notable changes, though.

So Japan has moved from a sort of October date, and it's going to be round four in this championship. Azerbaijan is going the other way. So Azerbaijan is actually going to occupy a place in the autumn, so that'll be round 17. And also, it won't be a Las Vegas and Abu Dhabi back to back. Qatar will be the penultimate race of the 2024 season. A couple of triple-headers as well. So I think Spain, Austria and UK will be one triple header.

And then later in the season, USA, Mexico and Brazil will be another. Harry, what were your initial thoughts? They did mention a step towards regionalisation. Do you think they've gone far enough with it? It's giving it a good guy, haven't they? They've given it a good old try. That's six and a half. Oh.

That's been a safe. By F1 standards, that's a nine. No, I'd probably say seven and a half. I don't know. I didn't think about a ten. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, okay, I'm sorry. They have definitely tried to make this a bit more greener.

And I'd say they've topped and tailed the calendar pretty well. I know Japan's now at the top, but it makes sense it's in that part of the world. I like it. It's a bit random. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Excited to see it. I mean, yeah, like you say,

it's in and around China and Saudi Arabia. So when you're going to meet your mate and another mate turns up you don't realise that he's going to be there and you're like, hello, I wasn't expecting you to be here.

You see Australia. Japan walks in. That's us every. Every, when you turn up. Yeah. You're at my house. I'm here every episode,

mate. You're not. Just, anyway. So, yeah, I think they've really, they've done well for the start

and the end of the calendar. As you said already, Qatar now goes before Abu Dhabi rather than Las Vegas. That makes sense. And even before that, the sort of Mexico, Brazil, Las Vegas, I think, isn't it?

Maybe not that order. But the Americas are sort of before that makes sense. But then there's one giant turd in the middle of the summer. I know there's two of them actually. Yes, correct. And it involves Miami and Canada, which somehow still just in the middle of the European season. What are you doing there? So look, it's step in the right direction.

It's not perfect. Still don't quite understand why Miami and Canada can't be shuffled about. At least have them back, have those two back to back. At least. But they're not. You can have a couple of European races, then you're off to Miami, then a couple more,

and then you're off to Canada. It's stupid. That's stupid still. So hopefully the work that's been done means that we're going to get to that point where Miami and Canada aren't the steaming turds in the middle of the summer. And we get to a point where we sort of have a Asia, Middle East, US, or not US, America's bits, then we go to Europe and then we sort of repeat at the end of the season

because that makes the most sense. So it's getting there is what I take. I feel like they started it at like 3 o'clock on a Friday afternoon and they got a few bits done and then it got to 5 o'clock and they were like, we could still do with making a few adjustments, but it's the end of the week now. That's all right. We'll stick with what we got.

They made an effort, sure. They probably just needed to make a bit more of an effort and then they got there the whole way. I basically agree with what you say there in that. I think overall the start of the calendar makes sense, the end of the calendar makes sense. I like to think when you look at it, Azerbaijan and Japan are the ones that really stand out as being,

okay, this is not what we are used to seeing. and they're just banking on no one looking in between those two dates. It's like they'll just focus on the first bit and the last bit and not realize that again, there are two random appearances by Miami and Canada in the middle of the European season. I can't really say much more than what you did because I agree with you.

Just sort it out. You've got other America's races or at the very least put them back to back, but don't just put it in the middle of the European season. It just kind of, it nullifies all points about, yeah, they've done a good job because if someone's looking for a comeback, they can always make a comeback.

You can say, they've done this really well, that's really positive. There's always a comeback because someone can say, yeah, what about Miami? What about Canada? What are you doing there, lads? Yeah. So I thought overall it was a better attempt,

but not as good as it could have been. Sam? I mean, you guys have brought it up nicely. It is very much like the FIA have gone on a diet for a whole month and on day 31. of 31, they've gone, oh, we have lost, you know, 11 pounds, and we just need that a little extra. Ah, but McDonald's is across the road. Let's go get 20 chicken nuggets and a double cheeseburger

and call it a day. You know, they've fallen at that final hurdle, and it's quite annoying because even if they're come out with the justification of, we've done a bit and big of least, and then we've done, you know, the Asia route, which is going to be, you know, Japan, Australia, China, great, fly the other way over the Pacific to America, hit Canada, they go down to Miami, and then carry on to Europe. Even then I've been like, all right, that kind of makes sense. I don't mind that, I guess. Or you could just wedge everything backwards a bit and make sure that you just put Miami and Canada in before Cota and Vegas and Mexico.

Also, Singapore is very much kind of out of that Asian loop as well. It's on the back end of the European leg where it could have quite easily been a part of the route between Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, fly to Singapore, and then do China, Japan, Australia, fly to Canada, do Miami, come back to Europe, right? It's really not that hard to have put a few things in the right place. And a lot of these countries, as much as they have harsh weather seasons, I understand that, you know, those that live locally to these areas know this information way more than us three morons. But there is also a good period of the year where, you know, these areas are completely usable.

People live there. They're inhabitable for a reason, right? There are things that can be done to make a regular. possible. Another thing that has been brought to my attention, which is not something that I think as a normal viewer who watches most of the season on the telly would understand your experience, but the journalists, the members of the race team, a lot of the people that support the crews, the TV groups, because of the way that the Grand Prix are being set up for,

you know, you'll have one race, two-week break, one race, two-week break, and in between that, we're flying half a continent away every time. It's great for freight movement, right? it makes freight very simple. But in terms of you being a person that works in the sport, it makes it very difficult because you either have to be on the other side of the world for two, three months at a time and not come home, or you have to do your race,

fly back, be at home for five days, fly back out again, do your race, fly back across the world, be at home for five days, fly back across the world. And that is, again, very, very draining. If they made them, like, triple header, three-week break, Triple Heger, three week break. I know that maybe as a viewer, that isn't perfect, but for the mental health,

the carbon footprint of everyone else involved, maybe that would have been a little bit more understandable and helpful. But again, I'm not an expert. I'm not doing that journey. It's just what I've read from a few of the leading journalists who are in the space who have voiced their concerns. They are almost there.

It feels like they have hit like an 8.5 out of 10 for me, few tweaks, few date changes, and this really could be what they want. it to be. Also, include Africa, maybe. It's quite a big place. It is. Second most populated continent in the world. Maybe have a race there. I think about it. What are your thoughts on the triple headers? Because we do have, we do have two of them this year, Harry, next year. What do you think of those? Sure. I mean, they're just quite, not for us, I guess, because we're just at home watching it. But for those involved it's it's a lot of

traveling about I actually don't know off my head what the triple headers are do you do you it's yeah so it's Spain Austria and Silverstone is the first one and then USA Mexico Brazil is the other one I did just look at the calendar and I think I've got those right

but I didn't actually double check them so if either those are wrong or there are others I haven't mentioned I do apologize yeah the USA one this US sorry the Americans one I can I get because if you're, they're not going to keep flying back in between those.

So that makes sense. The European ones, you know, less so because they all go home in between normally, because they're all based in Europe. So it's, it's fine. There's three.

Is there another one? There's three. Maybe there's three. Yes, you've got the one that you mentioned, explaining Austria, United Kingdom. That's a triple heller.

SAS. Nice. That's me. And then you've got USA, Mexico, Brazil. like you mentioned. And then Las Vegas, Qatar and Abu Dhabi is a triple header.

Oh, I thought there was a, I thought there was an extra week between... 23rd, 29th, 8th. Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah. So I guess because... Oh, that makes sense because Las Vegas will be Saturday, won't it?

Yeah, so technically they'll have an extra day of movement. Ah. Why would they not put that on the end of the... Well, anyway, make it quadruple. You're asking very simple questions. Yeah. Sorry, I mean,

that's a lot for F1 to deal with. Yeah. I think at this point, some people who are potentially newer to the podcast might be asking,

why don't you talk about whether 24 races is too many? I think we're all aligned that it probably is, right? There's a T-shirt available. We'd be producing them at this point.

Yeah. We'd be selling them, and you all have one saying, it's too many. There's no context. No, just, it's too many. Too many.

You can wear it to loads of things. such as the UK's prison society is overpopulated there's too many sure that's the first example when someone buys five burgers to have a dinner time

there's too many when you go to five guys and they give you a portion of chips there's too many you can order one chip and you'll still eat a thousand and chips. I think it was it, Lando Norris, he said that 20 would be

the right number. 20's a good number. It's nice round number, isn't it? When you ask F1 teams if they want an 11th team on the track, there's too many. That's well done, you got there. That's the reference. I went prisons first. Yeah.

Then the obvious port of call was prisons. Hey, you've got to hit the cultural issues. Society that's integral. Got it had its core. I'm fighting injustice and making the public laugh. Man, I can't not leave this segment by just saying shorter race weekends. That's the future. So more sprints?

No sprint races. Oh, no, just sprint races. Do away with the main race. Just do sprints. The most entertaining part of the weekend. Without a shadow of a doubt. Please stop. When bang sees that there's five sprint races in a season.

There's too many. That number could be anything above zero. I'm going to start making there's too many shirts. They have no de Men and Carly when he sees the number of laps in the Grand Prix. There's too many. When you hear the song, Too many men, too many, many men coming in the club. There's too many.

Everyone with me now. There's too many. Sorry, we'll move on. Probably best. Lewis Hamilton. There's too many. Does Lewis Hamilton one of them? hurry up.

Oh, he's done this before, isn't he? He likes it, it's fun. I think he's, he's enjoying the suspense. What race was it that he said that the day after the Monday after he was going to be like, oh, I'm going to discuss that with Toto tomorrow. I think it was Spain.

I think it was Spain. Yeah. It was a little while ago. Maybe Canada. Yeah. I think they're Spain because they'd had a good result. Oh, it's going well. I'll sign now.

I'll sign now. Yeah, Sam. Why is it, why is it up inside? Honestly, mate, I don't know. Don't know? I got a clue. Maybe he needs some confirmation that the car is going to go in a direction that he is asking it to and he's comfortable with. And he clearly he believes he knows the R&D direction that the car needs to go into because he said when they suddenly came into the new spec that they were, they're on now, right, that they brought to Silverstone.

That is the direction that he said the car should go. he's come out and kind of hinted quite obviously that that's the development. He always wanted the team to go down in the winter break and they came back with their zero side pod concept again that he wasn't happy with. I wonder if he wants some kind of, if I'm here for another couple of years before I retire,

I want confirmation that you're going to listen to me, we're going to go in my direction, and we're going to make a car that suits me and works for me. And I wonder if they're just a bit like, um, you're really good in the car, Lewis. are you a genius scientist, like a few of the people that work for us? Yeah. I wonder if that's it.

I do. It's not money. They'll pay him whatever he wants, I imagine. And it's not going to be things like sponsorship rules or allowing him to go and do events or anything like that. I don't even think it will be driving number one, number two, because I don't think they care right now who's driving number one or number two because they just get on with it. I just think that it must be about giving him all. the ability to win that eighth title. And if he could be convinced by it.

So do you think he's, so if you think he's holding out for that, what would be his second option? Going or somewhere else? You won't sign for another team. Yeah. You think it's just Mercedes or Bust. Yeah, I mean, what's the point?

He's here to wing. He's here to wing another title. And I think Red Bull are the only team that would take that on him and Max Verstappen is, as much as they are having a little gig on a sofa now and again, and they're all appearing on the Max for Stappling Experience podcast. What is the point? in Max Verstappen going,

oh yeah, the greatest rival that I've ever currently come across in Formula One. They never finish a race. No, never again.

Literally, they wouldn't make it into the car at that point. They'd be fighting. It's just, there is no point. It's stupid.

Christian Hall, I think, even came out and said, you know, logically, it just doesn't make any sense. Also, we'd be broke

as a company because together they'd be so expensive it'll be ridiculous. It would be, arguably, the greatest driver pairing of all time.

It would rival Prost and Senner, I think, if you would put the both in the same team. Renger, as they're very commonly go. So, yeah, you know, Vamelson could rival Praner, but I just, yeah, it won't happen. Hustappen.

Yeah, exactly. Hirstapen. So Ferrari aren't available, really. As far as far as a risk, McLaren are building a project. It just, yeah, it's Masegger's all bust. And I think that if he doesn't get that assurance thing, it's going to happen, which is a tough one, because you're just taking a bet, really. There's no actual guaranteeing

no matter what they say so I don't know what it is he's really holding out for. The future. Yeah, what, why? What's going on? I don't quite understand. I was with Sam.

The only thing I could probably logically think of here is that he is trying to be convinced of of next year's car. But as you say, they can do all the convincing their want. He's been there long enough now that he knows what they can do. What would he need to see?

So even, that is an argument I don't really believe. How long can that go on for? Well, exactly. So I just don't, I don't quite understand. And he consistently keeps saying, I could still be here for,

you know, how many more years? Five years, I think you said. Yeah, yeah. But it's just a confusing one, why he's not, why they haven't put pen to paper yet. And,

and done that deal. So, and as I said, I don't see, he wouldn't go anywhere else. I think even if he, I'm not saying, he wouldn't be a receiver with open arms by any team. All of them would want Lewis Hamilton.

But for him to go to a different team, it's not going to be Red Bull, as you say, then the rest of them are projects. And I think Hamilton's slightly too late in his career to go off and do a project now. It's not Fernando a lot, so where Fernando is literally happy to be like, I'll just keep moving up the grid if I can. Fernando's never retiring.

That's true. He will die of old age before he retires. But I just don't think, I just don't think Hamilton's going to go and do that. So even if an offer at Ferrari, which I know is a couple of times been floated about. Rumor has it. Of all the rumors this year, that one can get in a bin. It's not going to happen. So, yeah, it's Mercedes or nothing.

And I'm sure that it will be worked out. But it is a very odd one, why this is taking such. Do you remember beginning of 2020 when he... It just didn't sign until like before the first test. It could happen this year. It could literally happen this around. I was going to say, we'll be discussing this until February. Yeah. Weird.

There is a little part of me that thinks that he could retire more this time. You know, I know that we said... He was down and out because of what happened last time, right? Whereas this time, I think there is genuinely a logical reason to him possibly retiring. I mean, yeah, it could. I just... All the noises he's made that doesn't scream as a... of a driver that wants to retire, but...

Would it shake the entire F-1 grid if Lewis Hamilton would depart? If a Mercedes seat became open. Yes. It would be the same as when Vettel retired, but on drugs. It would be that... Give it Fernando until the end of season.

At all that time, Fernando's been after a Mercedes seat and he gets in, it wouldn't be a dominant car. No, they've dropped from the eighth fastest car. Master Martin will be him. Just cry. McClarrow win the championship. With a Honda Power Union.

carlam. Oh, man. Yeah, I don't know what's going on either to make it three out of three. I'm not too sure because surely at this point, you even know or you don't know whether it's going to work out next year. I know that concept-wise, they seem to be on a better path than they were last year. And maybe there have been rumblings that Mercedes wants to be competing for wins later in the season. maybe Lewis Hamilton is sticking around to see

does that actually happen? Do they make any progress? And if they don't, maybe at that point, he doesn't want to. But to your point, Harry, it sounds like he wants to stay.

So I guess he's just working out what is the cost of him staying? You know, how bad can the team be for him to want to stay? Like if it's a championship winning team, sure. If it's a winning car,

sure. If it's a car that competes for podiums once every five or eight, maybe he's not fast. I don't know exactly, but I hope, based on how winter, putting together schedules in the winter, I'm kind of hoping that he doesn't sign until February because this could get us through a few episodes in Jan. Yeah. Mick Schumacher thing is here like, hello, please retire. That's exactly how we talk. Hello. Yeah, I'm Mick Schumacher. Okay.

I don't think Mick Schumack is getting in the seat. Sorry, but just to your point, about waiting to the end of the season towards the end of the year, see if there's any race wins. I saw today that Toto said they're probably just going to start concentrating on 2024. Okay, cool.

That makes sense. Why didn't they start doing that before they brought those soapbox along? Yes, if this is such a bad car. You don't make any sense, man. It's just banter. I'm saying he's banter. Oh,

you know what? It's a great question. We do logic here on the late breaking F1 podcast, apparently. So yeah, I don't know why he's wasting. As you say, I think he, I think they'll pay him whatever they want because they make that money back, I'm pretty sure, right? They will make a return on that just by him being on the team from a pure marketing perspective. So I don't think it would be cash, but who knows what it is?

Do you think they need to prepare a backup plan, Sam? Yes. What should it be? Yeah, again, I don't do full thinking. Yeah, it's a me, Mick. It's me and Mick. It's, yeah, boy. The shoemaker.

Honestly, the saying is their genie. I am not. And when was the last time they didn't have a backup plan? Kof, Giko Rosberg. Works out all right, didn't it? Yeah, but then Bottas was kind of always in the wings. My point being...

Sooner than, I guess, they expected. My point being, they are the ultimate bad gal, I'm saying. They just keep stringing you along, right? They've got a driver on the hooks, on the fishing ride, right? And they just kind of keeping them there, like, oh, we're not going to reel you in yet,

mate, because we don't quite need you. And one day, they'll just let it bite and let it go because the time will have come. But they will have someone in the pipeline. Pasco Verline. That's your time. It's still there. So it's Gutierrez, I imagine.

Esti Goose is hanging on via Fred. Go on, Esty. They, you know, their junior program as well goes a little bit under the radar, right? They've got Vescu the bestie. Leading F2. Leading F2, right? He's doing well.

Probably a little bit too early to thrust him into a Mercedes seat. But for a one-off season, Mick Schumacher is an option, right? He has got experience in Formula 1. You let Russell lead the team, give him some time. Maybe it's an option. The other option, of course, which would follow the same path that Lewis Hamilton himself did follow. And it has been spoken about quite a lot is Landon Norris stepping up from McLaren to Mr Sagan. I feel like Landon Norris is the man constantly on the cusp of signing a major deal with someone.

And it just never happening. The other person that I would look at, despite him having a contract and doing brilliantly and everyone loving him, is Alex Albon. Abolos. Albonu! Williams and Jing, James Fountain. is a great pal of Toto if you didn't know. And I think that him and George and a team would have a lovely time. I think with Lando Norris as well,

you do have the potential to maybe leverage the whole power unit situation. I'm not sure how close to a Red Bull power unit solution McLaren might be. But if Mercedes are still supplying their engines, that might be something to say, well, we'll keep doing that for you if you want, if you give us Lando. Give us Lando or we're going to give you an inching from an A class. Yeah.

And you know how they drive, mate. They're not quite as quick as their phone. There you go. You're not here first. Thank you very much for confirming that. And on your other two options, I think I'd take Alex Albin in the car before Nick Schumacher. Yeah, I agree. Be interesting.

Harry, should they have a backup? Yeah. What should that backup be? They should have a backup. And I agree with all the options you've given them. Norris, yes, is probably the number one option you go for. Albon's number two. But I guess slightly worryingly for Mercedes,

there's not like a proper clear one. They've always had a clear option. And they're normally sat in a Williams car, just waiting. Bottas, Russell. So if Hamilton goes, do you know what, stuff this. I don't do this anymore. I'm retiring at the end of the year. Who do they pick?

that's going to be one hell of a battle with Zach Brown to try and get Norris out of his contract. Albon will be easier, but he's still got red ball ties. So Christian Hall will probably say no just to spite him. And that's a tricky situation for Mercedes to be in. Obviously, when Lewis Hamilton retires, it's always going to be tricky. And they've obviously got George Russell to sort of pick up the mantle. But a slightly worrying time for them because they've always had decent drivers in their car. And it'll be at the moment, if it happened right now, which it probably won't.

But if it happened right now, it's a bit of a struggle for them, I'd say. Are Mercedes at risk of being at the very start of what I'm going to call the Ferrari syndrome that they brought upon themselves through the Michael Schumacher era, right? He steps away. They go on to achieve not a lot of success, really. Obviously, we'll just Kimmy, but like, it wasn't exactly, you know. maybe handing in the title since then nothing dominant drivers coming

through a lot of great youth talent the car is almost there are Mercedes at that point where they are about to run out of options being as useless as Ferrari takes a lot of skill it's hard takes a lot of experience so they've got a long way to go but but would you have said that about Ferrari in 2004 would you have gone they could now be this

I was eight so I was a bit stupid but I would say you would say but But those times always have to come to an end. And when Schumacher left, so did Braun, so did Jean-Totte a year later, Roy Byrne. They all went at the same time. And maybe this is the same sort of thing, but it's not happened yet for Merck. Maybe it will.

Don't assume that because the team was so good, they can't be so bad. That's another T-shirt there. So good. So bad. You know who would be the first person knocking on Toto Wolves' door the day that Lewis Hamilton walks away? Fandano Lanzi.

Nico Hockenberg. I'm sure both would, but I was thinking, Shawler. Oh, yeah, Freelikler. I actually think he's so Ferrari. I know, but if they keep doing this to it, it'll go anywhere.

Just cries at night. Papa Dota! From across Marangelo. Oh, get it now. Hashtag Frileclure. We're going to play F1 higher or lower right after this. Hang on, I'm just finding plan B.

Oh, good on, Ricky. Oh, nice one. Go check out the real or TikTok. F1, higher or lower. Play us in, please, Harry. Sound fast, F1, no. F1. Ironic that in that game,

it doesn't matter how fast or slow you are. Yeah, don't matter at all. Don't question your own lyrics, mate. I never do. I'm just saying it's ironic. The lyrics. It's a 7 out of 10 jingle until you get to the last F1, then it's a full 10.

F1. I should coach pop stars on that. You just pop like F1 at the end of the song. People go mad for it. Okay, F1, higher or lower. I've got six questions in front of me. All of them have a numeric answer. Sam and Harry will take it in turns to guess exactly what the question is.

If they get it exactly right, they will win two points. But if they don't get it right, it will go to the other person who has the opportunity to steal. So let's say the first person says, the first person has a guess. The second person says, higher or lower than that. If they get it right, they get a point.

If they don't get it right, the original guesser gets the point. And forget, it's bottom we get two points. Thus. Which is Spanish for two. Thank you, Sam. Right. Numbers one through six,

Sam, you can go first. Number one, please, Ben. Number one. Okay. I want you to tell me how many laps there are at the Brazilian Grand Prix. Ooh.

There's quite a lot. Lower. Okay, so it's not done on lap time. It's done on lap length. And it's quite a short lap length. So I'm going to say there are 71. He's got a spot. Oh!

Two points out the blog. I am shook off. I'm well happy. That's it. Game done. Exactly. I was going to get from lower. What? The Brazilian Grapery. That's the best moment of this podcast ever for me.

Honestly, that's where it peaks. We're leaving now. Yep. I can't believe I'm saying this. The score is 2-0 to Sam. Harry, what number would you like? Does it matter now? Honestly, mate, I'm throwing it away before.

Six, please. Number six, please. Okay, this one's a slight variation where you're not saying higher or lower, it's going to be quicker or slower. That's how the game works. Quick. You said earlier about not being quick or slow when it is. Oh my gosh. I always knew they would be right.

I want you to tell me to the nearest 10th, what was the pole position time at the Italian Grand Prix last year? One. Higher. Just one second. It was 10th. One 10th. I don't know. It was a 111.3.

A 111.3 is not correct. Sam. Was it faster or slower than a 111 3? I'm going to say it was faster. Did I hear the question right? The Italian Grand Prix? Oh, it's slower then, isn't it? It's going to be like a 118.

It's slower than that, mate. Oh. It's like a 112. 22. I thought a 120.2. Yeah, I'd feel a bit silly now.

I think my brain for some reason went long ago. It's just fast. 2-1, mate. You're back in the game. You're on fire.

For being stupid. That's how I've got, my. I thought that anyone would be happy with that lap time. But yeah, a 120.

2 is the correct answer. And to your point, Harry is back in the game at 2-1. That's one, mate. With a great guess. You've heard that. You might win this.

Sam. I'm sure you get this spot on as well. What number do you want? Number two, please, Ben. Okay. How many times did Max Verstappen score points in his first season in F1?

That was what, 2016? I don't know, Jeff. 2015, Bing, I think he's doing a little... Oh, is it that long ago? I'm going to say he scored points in eight races in his first season. The miracle has not repeated itself. Shock.

It's a miracle. Did he score points in more or fewer than that? F1. More? F1 fewer. Contact this game's going down the drain. I'll go for more. Higher.

He's leveled it up. There you go. Too all. It's pretty good. Eight was a pretty good guess. It was 10. Oh. So you're in the right region.

But two all. Back to you, Harry. Number four, please. Number four, I want you to tell me how many teammates Nick Heidefeld had in his career. Oh, what? Don't count the tree.

The tree doesn't count. Don't count the tree. He loves it, but it did not race. He's had loads. That's not a number. Higher. I'll go for 12. Are you spot on with that?

We've got another. As if. if I'm now four, two down. It's exactly 12. You're having a lot. 12. So, yeah, Jean-A-Lazy,

Kimi Reichen, Felipe Massa, the Yank Heinz-Herald Frinson. He's Argentinian. Sorry, Argentinian-Herald Frinson. Pantano, Glock, Weber, Vettel,

Kubits, I haven't written down that one very well. Villenev. Kobayashi and Petrov. doesn't come out with like paracetamol or something without a hand, right? It could have been, I'm not sure. It's two, yeah, it's four twos, Harry. Good.

What is this game? Goodness, mate. I won't get another point now. Three or five, Sam. Can we get this one? Come of five, please. You actually mentioned this guy's name just before we started recording. I forgot it already.

How many points did Vitantonio Liuzzi score in his career? Oh. It's not a lot. I'm going to say 27. It's not correct. Oh, imagine. I was so thought

Ben was doing a face then. I was like, no way. Higher or lower than 27. It's like 28. I'm going to rage. Lower. It is lower.

Well done. I really thought you'd got that right. Oh. It's 26. Oh, come on. I'm like, Fangando a longso. I'm in front.

Three things away from two points. I really, because I mean, obviously the first part of six and seven sounds, I really thought you were going to say that spot on. I'm actually really upset. I can't win now either. No. Oh, yeah. Pick number three, my lord.

I'm number three, please. Yay. Okay. How many points did Nigel Mansell win the 1992 driver's championship by? So what was his margin back to second place in the championship? 47. No.

Fire or lower, Sam? Lower. No. So 50-fitting. I've got it wrong. 47 was pretty a guess, actually, 52.

We were really good on those. What a good game we've done. You remember when it was 2-0, Sam? Yeah. Score 6-2. I've enjoyed that. You know what? I'm still, I'm walking away with that 71.

I'm happy with that. Oh, God. That might be the weirdest. game of higher or low we've ever played. And that's why we play it. What a roller coaster. Play us out, please. Oh, yeah.

F1, is that faster. F1 higher. F1 Lua. F1. Right. We've blabbed on enough. Sam, get us out of it.

I really think that this recording has harked back to some of the crazier episodes of the past, you know, it's been a bit, bit a bit, a bit loose, ain't it. Bit unhinged. Wild. We let the intrusive thought.

wing on this podcast. Oh yeah. If you'd like to have more bizarre content and chats, then maybe you could join our lovely community on the Discord. The links in the description, head down there. Over one over 1,900 people all chatting F1 and other related topics.

They're all very nice. Also, if you want to get your submissions on the race weekends for, you know, under pressure or your moment of the race, that's where we do it as well. Also, if you'd like even more It's got of a twist reference. Content. Then we've got Patreon. Speaking of Patreon,

we're about to record Beer with Breaking. Oh yeah. For our top subscribers. Harry has made a game and we don't know what it is. So that is going to be hectic. But you can go and join it.

The link is in the Gascrippi. And we have loads of stuff. Epstrins. You get two. Every single month. You get ad-free content. You get discount on your merch. You get a birthday.

Shout out. Happy birthday to you. If it's your birthday month and it's appropriate. You spend the right money. Other than that, we've got social media, late breaking F1 on every single account that we have. Twitter, Instagram.

And Ben, if we're down with what? If you're down with the kids, we're on TikTok. Where we are now producing amazing content as of... Apparently. Today. What, Kirstie is. Yeah. I say we.

It's a collective we. And threads. And threads. We're on threads. I forget. I've done anything with that yet. A couple of things. Very minor.

He's told that Ben has not... I've not touched. Nah. Anyway, that's enough from us. This has been stupid, as always. And we will see you on Sunday where Harry won't be here,

but me and Ben will be. Also, it's been Harry's birthday in the time that you've listened to this. Oh, yeah. So, happy birthday to Harry. Thanks. Happy birthday, me. You lovely man. Thank you.

Very good at F1 games. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been bedhocking, and I've been Michael Whatnot. I'm doing. I'm glad to remember. Keep breaking late. Oh, bloody, go it.

Good one. I almost forgot the name as well. That was close. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.