The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Las Vegas GP Confirmed! A good move?

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

No race to talk about this week, but never fear the boys are back with another episode - they discuss the new race in Las Vegas (hopefully), talk about what Lewis Hamilton needs to do to add to his legacy, and play a round of F1: Pump The Brakes! JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So join the more than. 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk business. Thank you for listening to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Eid, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. No waffling.

Today, we're going straight into the action. Sam, very important question. We're going to lead off with this. How are you finding British summertime? I bloody love it. When we sat down tonight, folks, which was now half an hour ago, it was still daylight. It takes us so long to get starting every evening that we record this,

so that it is now dark, but it was quite tasty, isn't it? I mean, it's still cold and grey, but it's all right. I'm absolutely shook of Ben. You didn't ask him about this McDonald's lunch. I thought that's where this was going to go. It was purposefully avoiding it. Go on, Sam. So I have to talk about it.

Of course, Sam Food Chat is highly important. McDonald's sent me a little voucher, right? Because it was my birthday in March. The month of March. They were like, Chore and Nighting IP main burger meal. I was like, yes, I do. I thought, oh, last day of March coming up tomorrow. You know what?

I haven't got much chicken for lunch. Pop down the local Mackey Dees. Got myself much chicken sandwich and a double cheese burger. No pickles, by the way. If I was ever ordering for me. Hate the pickles. Didn't get your chips or a drink. Just two burgers for lunch.

Isn't that absolutely filthy? Ridiculous. Oh man. It's weird. I'm just looking at our listeners and there seems to be a massive drop just in the last 30 seconds. There's now only four people listening.

So, uh... If you'd like to nominate us from a podcast award. Well, all four of you, that would be fantastic. We're going to get on with some F1, because that's why you're here, probably. We're going to be talking about, okay, first of all, we're going to be talking about F1 news that isn't yet news. So to give you a bit of context here, there is an announcement, as we record this, on a Wednesday evening British time, there is an announcement coming up, which will be the middle of the night here Thursday morning. We are very much anticipating, and you will know already, probably, whilst you listen to this, what has happened, but we are anticipating that the Las Vegas Grand Prix is coming.

If they aren't going to announce that, we're going to sound really stupid for like 15 minutes, but we're going to bank on it. We're also going to be talking about team orders, teammates fighting each other, particularly looking at the Alpine fight that we saw in Saudi Arabia. and Dave Benson Phillips gets a run out because we're playing pump the brakes later on as we give some potentially controversial opinions. But we're going to start with something that we offered up. If you're not in the Discord, please get in there. One of the reasons is that we do offer up a topic choice every week. We give two options and the winner is the one that we end up talking about.

And last week, it was a close run thing between two topics. We took one of them. but because we have a bit of prep time, everyone voted for the other one as soon as I said we were going to do the other option. So we decided we're going to have to talk about them both. We're going to be talking about Lewis Hamilton's legacy specifically. So Mercedes, at least two races in,

enduring a difficult year, the eighth championship that Lewis Hamilton is looking for to break the record, looking a bit tougher to get there this year. A long way to go, of course, but it is looking tougher than was first anticipated. So Sam, I'll kick up. of you on this one. A question. Will bringing up an average car that Mercedes seems to have at the

moment be better for Hamilton's legacy than actually winning an eighth title? I find this concept annoying in Formula One. I find it odd. People's achievements don't seem to speak for themselves. They've always got to go on and achieve something else or do something else in their career to prove a different part of their career, you know. I know that there's a lot of great drivers in the past that have been in a car that's not been perfect, not being a championship winning car, and have done very well in that car. Let's look at Fernando Alonso, for example, when he was kind of in some not-soe great cars.

He's done brilliantly, right, in the past, and he's well known for that. And I, you know, applaud him for that, and that is a great skill to have. But would you look at, you know, Lewis Hamilton in 20 years' time and go, yeah, he won those seven world titles, and he's got over a hundred. race wings but you know what I always remember that one seizing in the Mercedes were actually over the third or fourth best team but that guy he got a race wing it just feels like you're really clutching at straws because you don't like how well someone's done so for me no go and win that eighth title go and tick off another box on the achievement list go break another record

that's what formula one's about it's about being the most successful you can be and yeah don't go me wrong there's plenty of great stuff to talk about when a driver proves that they are outshining a car or outshining their teammate. But I would rather someone win the championship. I'd rather someone have a great hay to head battle and take his eighth title. I take their first title. You know, Max Verstappen won his first title

against the seven-time world champion. That's much better for his legacy than if Red Bull of the fifth best car and he gets five podiums across the season. That's great for Max Verstappen. So for me, I don't really care about the average car making it look better. Yes, it'll make you look like a good driver.

But in terms of legacy, No, going on an eighth world title, go win as many world titles, go win as many races, get pole positions, dominate the sport, show that you are better than your teammate, show that you're better than everyone else on the grid,

upping an average car to a slightly better than an average position when your teammate is just being average, just says you're a good driver, which you should already know if someone's won multiple world titles. So I think for me, ruling an eighth title is much more significant,

much more important for the history books, much more important for the legacy that would be Lewis Hamilton or any driver that will achieve this feat, then bigging up a slightly better than average car, you know, or taking a race wing in a car that shouldn't be a race wing in car. Is Eskampanokom the best driver of all time because he weren't hungry? No. It's great that he did it. But if you won a World Championship, you remember that more.

So for me, I'd rather you an eight, mate, as instead of the other thing. So you're looking at, currently if I'm wrong here, but you're looking at legacy is a very numbers-centric thing. you're looking at you're in there to win world titles. And ultimately, the more you win, the better your legacy left is in that respect. I think that's what, you know, the majority of people look at Formula One. Obviously, we as three F1 fans, and I imagine a lot of you listening who are,

some of you are longer term F1 fans, some of you are new to the sport, maybe through drive to survive. But when you go through the history of Formula One, yes, you have those drivers that stand out as nearly's or as almost, as people that maybe could have had so much more but through bag like it didn't go their way, or poor car choices, it didn't go their way. But when you talk about the history of Formula One, you talk about how Fangio dominated in what,

three or four separate manufacturers. You talk about how well Senna did and how well proscied and how well they rivaled each other at the very top of the field. We talk about that the Hunt and a louder battle. We don't talk about how, you know, the season beforehand, Hunt was all right in a car that wasn't very good. You don't talk about that bit with Hunt. It's remembered, it's documented.

But the first thing you talk about when it comes to someone historic, when it comes to something momentous and important, is what they achieved and how they achieved it. Do you remember, though, before he won that title, he did have that season where he came seventh, and he had that one race winning, a car that came fifth overall in the... No one cares. If I'm being totally honest, it's nice to remember,

but for me, what you achieve and walk away with at the end of the day, the numbers you achieve in a sport, which is about winning, is more important to me than being better than average in an average car. Personally. Harry, what are your thoughts on this one? Do you think that Hamilton's legacy is enhanced more by winning that eighth title and breaking Schumacher's record? Or do you think his legacy is somewhat helped by being in a less than perfect car?

I think, to be honest, he doesn't need to do anything more to add to his legacy. But this is from a perspective of F1 fans who are a fickle bunch, most of them. No offense to any of you listening, but you're all fickle. Because either way, at either one of those scenarios, it will silence a bunch of people. If he gets his eighth world title, it will silence people saying, statistically, you know, he's not as good as Schumacher.

Well, by that point, he will have taken all the boxes he will be into the numbers. Flip it on his head. If he can win in a good car, drag a good car, car up the field, then that will silence the critics who say that he, you know, Hamilton isn't capable of winning in a car that is not dominant. So I think, I don't think either one will enhance his legacy more. I think they'll just appease a different group of people. If he, if he did both of them in one go, one or eight war titles in a car that wasn't as good, then no one's

got any room to maneuver on that one. So, yeah, look, I don't think. he needs in my view doesn't need to do anything more and I'm not saying he shouldn't but I'm saying I don't think anything more he does will enhance his legacy I think he's already proved enough in formula one but what I'm saying is I think either way it will it will the results are different for whatever he does so if he wins an eighth world title it silences a different group of people to whether he wins in a in a crap car so yeah it's it's a it's a tricky one but to me I don't think it it actually matters in the end. Yeah, I would say that

you're writing that he definitely doesn't need to add to his legacy, but I see legacy is something that is constantly built on to the point where, look, Lewis Hamilton can do whatever he wants this season, next season, he can retire, he can have a terrible year,

it doesn't matter. He will be remembered as one of the greatest drivers of all time, if not the greatest, as I'm sure many people would say. And it doesn't, yeah, his legacy is set in that respect. I don't think a legacy can go backwards, but it can certainly go forward. So I feel like, yeah, he doesn't have much to prove

in terms of being a great driver, but he does still have something to prove if he wants to be considered the undoubted best ever. And yes, anyone who would say that you can never truly have a greatest ever because of the differences between the eras, you're correct. But it's still something that we like to do as Formula One fans. So yeah, I think it's still something he can build on. I think overall, if we're talking about, it depends how you define legacy, but I think if we're talking about Sam, your definition of legacy, you're absolutely correct in that he will be remembered for his world championships, he'll be remembered for his record-breaking pole positions and record-breaking wins.

Those are the stats that you'll remember, and you won't necessarily remember the slightly more forgettable season. So I think in terms of being remembered as an excellent Formula One driver, you're right but I think there is almost another element of legacy which is how do you stack up against your peers it's something that we ask even now of say would you would you take senor or would you take prox it's still a question that exists some 30 30 years after they were in their prime and I think when people come back to that question of well is it schumack or is it Hamilton or even is it Hamilton or Alonzo when you come back to that question in 20 years time I think that's where

stuff like building up the average car does become more of a factor. So I think widely speaking, the eighth championship would do more. But in terms of my own personal view on how great Hamilton is versus other greats, I actually think building up a midfield card does more for that argument than an eighth title does because he is proving something that he hasn't. I don't want to say it's not something he hasn't proved at all, but it's certainly advancing what he's currently shown more than, winning an eighth title in the dominant car because we've seen him do that multiple times he's excellent at

it but being able to build up a slightly below brilliant car or an average car that that is something a bit different i always in terms like the schumacher versus hamilton debate it's one that a lot of people have and i think regardless of where you sit there are a few things that hold both of them back in their argument against the other so for schumacher for example the thing that you would say to hold him back is, well, he didn't have a great caliber of teammates versus Hamilton. Hamilton's teammates were on average better than Schumacher's teammates. So that would be the argument for Hamilton. I think the argument for Schumacher is actually Hamilton doesn't have a representative counter argument to Schumacher's 1997. Like 1997 was a phenomenal year for

Schumacher in what was a bit of a dog of a car. That's slightly paraphrasing from Eddie Irvine's quote, but it's not that far off what he said. And I don't necessarily think Hamilton has that year to rival that. I think 2022 could, depending on how well they develop the car, could actually be that season for him where he doesn't have the dominant car and he does elevate it beyond where it's supposed to be. You've already referenced the 2012 season from Alonzo. And I do actually think in terms of how good Alonzo is viewed, that season does come up a great deal, just as much I think, is 2005 and do. So I think it is about what you define as legacy, of course, but I think in terms of how he stacks up against other drivers,

elevating a good to great car would do wonders for his legacy, but an eighth championship in terms of overall, how do you remember this guy? That's where that takes president. So Hamilton's quite good at the F-1 then. She will. He still is. It tends to be all right at it. Yeah, proven is okay. A bit to work on, but I mean, you might get there. Never been wowed by the bloke.

Well, that's a quote. We'll take that one away. Please don't ever click that on context. Anyone, please. Social click to promote this podcast, done. Click bait. We love it. Also, I do just want to confirm something here.

So if Hamilton wins an eighth title, that takes him above Schumacher, that made him undoubtedly a better driver than Schumacher. are we applying the same logic to Pastor Maldonado being a better driver than Chris Aymann? Just making sure. Yes. And Jack Villeneuve is better than Sterling Moss, right?

We're clear on that, yeah. Harry told that to me, actually, off air. He said to me, Jacques Vilner, one of the greatest of all time, Sterling in the mud. Folks, I can only say his name on there. If I say it off, I wretch. That's a known fact. Jack.

Jacques. Jacques. Oh dear. Bluette. Oh dear. This is descend into chaos. That is horrid. Sorry, Jack.

It's only him that doesn't like it. I thought for a moment you said Shaq then, of course, Shaquille O'Neal, late breaking hall of fame. And now I'm trying to imagine a mixture of a person that is Shaquille O'Neill and Jack Philner. Just photo. The blonde hair. What is going to?

Jackville. Jackville. Does someone photoshopped the Rothman Williams gear onto Shaq on his podium and put the blonde hair on his hands? But leave Shaq alone entirely. If someone could do that, I will have a lot of respect for you. A lot of respect. This Giving Tuesday, Cam H is counting on your support. Together, we can forge a better path for mental health by creating a future where

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to museums that showcase the future, not just the past. Choose from 14 flights per week between Canada and Dubai. Book on emirates.ca. today. Now, normally on the late-breaking podcast, we are responding to news. and we are giving our opinion on it, but we're going to do something a bit different now because we're going to be the ones to break the news. We have got late breaking news on this week's podcast.

Actually early. As I said in the intro, we think news is coming, so we're kind of placing our bets on that it will be something we think it is. Yeah, I was going to say, for legal reasons, we're not breaking any sort of embargo here. We don't actually know for sure. Yes, make that clear. I mean, we also need to remember that this podcast probably goes out around the same time,

whatever it is that's going to happen. You can guarantee that actually it's going to be like, change to the rules. Liberty Media and FIA will now allow banana throwing out of the car, or something ridiculous like that. But we're trying to get a hang of it because F1 absolutely hates us and launches all news the day after we record every week. So wait for this to go wrong. It's going to be very funny for all of you.

It's not cool, Frederick. It's not cool. And yes, I can't wait as well for this to be like an F1 fantasy update or something. But we aren't going to hedge our bets here that the last Vegas Grand Prix is going to be announced for 2023. It's been heavily rumoured for weeks. We think based on the spoiler that they gave earlier today, that is going to be the news that is headed out there. It would be the third race in the United States. Of course, there was one just last year.

We're now up to three with Miami joining the calendar and now Las Vegas two. What do you make of this news that is not yet news, Harry? This is the stupidest podcast in the world. Right, so, Las Vegas, sure. Let's have a race in Las Vegas. Look, we've briefly touched on this the other day. As long as it's not around the Caesar's Palace car park. fine

it's like it's going to go past there though oh god it's not it's not Caesar's powers but we are going to based on some moks of what the track could be looks like I've not even seen a mock of the track yet so I'm going in blind on this one it's a big

square it's not a good mock well that makes me sad okay fine well I would like a better track in that case better than a big square look we know F1 has been trying to break America for a long time. It feels like they finally are doing it.

This would be another big event for them. We've obviously got Miami this year. This is another landmark one. And I get the complaints. And as three Europeans, the potential timing of this in terms of the race time makes me feel ill. No, I'm sorry.

We're not allowed to complain. I know. I know. And that's my point. It makes me ill, but we can't complain because we get the good end of the deal for most of the, year.

Australia's just turned off. Like, no, you don't have it unfair. Othronia hates us too now. Oh God, just offending nations. Again. Again. Yeah, look. It's obviously a good thing, but we've spoken about the amount of races we're already

have on the calendar, and I'm fine for Las Vegas to be on the calendar. Not so happy about the square track, but I don't want to lose a good track. And there's been rumours that we might lose SPAR. I mean, that's just ridiculous. If we lose a bad track, Jeddah, then that's fine with me. I don't mind trying somewhere else, but I just, my worry is that we're going to start shedding good tracks at this rate, you know, to have more races in different markets, which I totally appreciate why. But look, let's not judge a book by its cover. Let's see how it is.

This may not be a Las Vegas race at table. all but you know I'm I'm open and willing to try it famous last word so but we'll see how it is Sam what's your votes on this I mean Harry don't judge a bit by its cover and if it's a big square it will look just like a book won't it you can race around the edges of the book that'll be fun yeah yeah you have a little look at that mock it's not really a proper square but it doesn't look too far from it

In terms of another race in the US, I'm not against another race in the US. I think the US can have a fourth race, quite frankly. They can have one in the kind of the northeastern part of the USA. And then they'll have five in the North Americas, if you include obviously Canada's Grand Prix, which is obviously a personal favourite of mine, absolutely love the Canadian Grand Prix. And I have no issue with that continent having five races. And of course, Mexico as well is six. And then of course we have Brazil.

I've just seen Harry's face. He's looked at the male. He's not a happy one. I'm making my point here. Mowing back in a minute. Us in Europe, we could not be more fortunate. I know the majority of the viewing base is here in Europe, so it makes sense that the most of the racing is done

where the larger viewing base is. But Formula 1 is a global sport. And we have, what, eight or nine Grand Prix? I think it is across Europe. If you include the Middle East, which is essentially the same time zone as parts of Europe as well, we have 12, 11, 12, 13 of the Grand Prix. across the whole season. So we're incredibly beneficial, incredibly lucky with how it's laid out

for us in terms of spectators, sense of constant creation, you know, going to work on a Monday. It could not benefit us more. So I don't mind that a market of over 400 million people, if you take Mexico, America and Canada into account, gets another Grand Prix. You get another two Grand Prix. It makes sense. I love to see Formula One grow. I think that's really, really positive. What I want to happen is I want those tracks, as Harry is finding out, to be a positive layout. exciting and fun and well thought out. I don't want them to just be. There are some roads here.

Let's put some barricades up. That would technically work as an F1 tracking. It's a great location because it's Las Vegas. Las Vegas can have a race in the desert. You know, there's a big desert next door to Las Vegas. We can stick a track there. I'm all right with that. Also, many other great tracks that already exist in America that aren't being used.

Very frustrating that they aren't getting the shoutouts that maybe they deserve when they produce brilliant, brilliant racing and are ready. for Formula One and not being used. I think Vegas is exciting as a track location. I love that idea. Formula One is the glitz and the glamour of most sporting world. So why not go to the most glittery and fancy places we can go to? So yeah, I'm all for it.

I'm all for another track appearing afterwards. That's fine. But don't take away spa. Don't take away some of the absolutely brilliant tracks that produce great racing season on season. You have to balance it. And we can't just keep unloading tracks every single year because we will get to that 30 track mark.

Stefano jokes about it, but we're getting closer, and it's getting worrying. So have the role in Canada, take some out that don't do too well, Catalonia, Monaco, you know, there's plenty that aren't fan favourites anymore and don't produce great racing that you can swap out if you want to, and I'm okay with that. But, you know, you've got to make some compromises if you want more races in the States. Yes, to more race in the States, but you've got to balance that out elsewhere. And also, there's a whole continent that doesn't get touched, that deserves to get touched. we discussed this a couple of weeks ago,

and that is obviously Africa with many nations that love motorsport. They have got race tracks in that continent. There are countries there that deserve to have some love shown to it. And maybe we should give some love to other continents as well that aren't just Europe, North America. And I mean, even Asia isn't got too many at the moment. So let's spread the love, make sure the calendar is fair, make sure it's even.

But yeah, in terms of actual tracks in the US, why not? The market is growing. I think it's a good thing. I mean in terms of the calendar itself you're right I mean once you add another one into the mix you are getting to the point where we've got too many and or you know you replace it with another one in which case if you're replacing it with a great track that's that's not brilliant so it's almost as if we need some sort of calendar system which rotates tracks every two or three years I wish someone would come up with that sort of an idea no one's makes sure yeah

thing. No, no one's mentioned it. They'll listen to me one day. Good idea. They will listen to me one day. Don't know when that day will be, but they'll listen to me. Zadrown listens to you. You brought it up, didn't he? Oh yeah, me and Zach are tight, but yeah, the rest of them don't care. He's a friend of the

podcast. Yeah, yeah. He's a very good personal friend of mine, but he just doesn't know it yet. I'm like that with a lot of people. There was a point in there somewhere. Yeah, part of me is like there are so many great circuits in the US that aren't being used for F1 that can be, especially because we've got Cota,

which I think is a pretty good track. I don't think it's brilliant, but I think it's a pretty good track. And now we've got Miami, which is a street circuit. You know, we're now putting the balance towards street circuits by having it two to one. There are great tracks in the US. You know, Laguna Seika would be fantastic.

And, you know, I rode America. be interesting to see maybe that maybe road America is a bit narrow possibly for f1 but that's another one you can try return to indie um radiator springs that's a bit of daytona daytona did you say radiator springs radiator springs radiator springs radiator springs absolutely great circuit there ker chow chow chow but yeah i i am excited about a race going to Las Vegas. And I do think all of this is confirmation that it's working in terms of the direction towards the American market. It's working. And I don't mind that there are three races in the US. I know there are some that do have a bit of a problem with it, but most of them,

it's about whether you look at it from a geographical standpoint, or whether you look at it from a pure country standpoint, because if you're looking at it in terms of geography, then you've got about 10 circuits that exist within a, basically the amount of area that the US takes up in Europe. You know, if you think of the races that happen in Austria and Hungary and Belgium, Netherlands, you could put a blanket over that that would exist within the US. So in terms of like geographical location, I don't think it's egregious. It's just about where you stand on a country having multiple Grand Prix, I guess. But overall, I'm excited and I think it is proof that it is working and it's working very well.

And it has been this combination of drive to survive has really paid off in the United States market. And just the fact that they are making this announcement at what I think will be half past three European time, that is proof that they are getting there in terms of this US. market. They think that this race is going to happen at 3am European time, which a few years ago, I think would have been unthinkable. But they believe they are at a point now where they can lose out on some European, you know, less diehard fans not tuning in for this, but they will get enough interest within Las Vegas and enough interest in America that it will be worth it. So I think just the timings that they're putting out here in terms of announcements and proposed race time,

that is proof that it is working. Generally speaking, F1 is doing a fantastic job in the US and I'm seeing it across the board. So, I mean, someone, Harry and Sam, probably I'm going to have a clue this guy is, but there is a US sports personality, I guess. His name's Nick Wright,

who I'm a pretty big fan of. Never mind. I'm a pretty big fan of it. He's just launched a podcast. And I've been listening to, him on various shows throughout the last few years. And he mentioned F1 the other day, which is baffling because he's never touched F1.

And he went, never would touch F1. And suddenly he was talking about his new podcast and the podcast charts being behind the ringers, new F1 podcast, which, you know, feel free to check out, but also it's not as good as this one.

So, you know, it's proof that it's hitting the mainstream market of US sports. It's not there yet, but it is getting there. I'm very excited about this. Track does look like a bit of a square, bit of a SpongeBob Squarepants, but I don't mind us being there. Is Nick Wright friends with Dave wrong?

His name's Steve, come on. Less of the jokes. Having a race at 3 in the morning, it's a bit like having breakfast for dinner, isn't it? Sometimes, you know, on a one off, this is all right. I don't mind it. But I could have it every single day, but a race at 3.

Yeah, I'm excited. I get up. I'll be the only person in London awake. Oh, Harry's also in London, actually. We can do smoke signals across London. Hello, Harry. Are you awake at 3 a.m? Yes, breakfast for dinner.

That'll be the conversation. On Monday morning. Yeah. Are you excited? Five o'clock recording on a Monday morning for the bell. I'm going to be slaughtered. The neighbour's going to kill me. Why are you shouting F1 back and forth at 5 in the morning on a Monday?

I'm going to die. Why? We'll be recording like this, everyone. F1. Back and forth. Do you know what we also need to do? Right now, we need to book off that Monday, don't we, collectively? Oh, yeah, good.

A bit of admin on the podcast itself, but I think we'd probably need to do that. Someone would like to manage our admin for free. That'll be pretty appreciated it. Before we move off this topic, Harry, I'm just interested. Your thoughts on a lot of people have been against the US getting three races You know one country having that many Grand Prix Where do you stand on that? Do you think it's fair? Do you think it's unfair? It's a trickle-one because you know as we say we're very privileged Europeans here

But if you look at the size of America and then look at the size of Europe It's I think that's what you've got to look at that's how good a basis because America for people who don't know It's quite big. I don't know. Job for listening to Harry here. It's another social clip. Tick.

Yeah, it's a big old country. So I think, you know, it's only fair that they should get a few more races. But having said that, I think there are other continents we could be going to as well. But then that becomes a whole mess because there's just too many racetracks around the world, to be honest. Fair fun to go to all of them unless you go for a revolving calendar idea. So I want you to think of that. yeah spicy out in it um yeah i i look personally i don't have an issue europe has had the lion share of formula one races for uh ever for the past 70 years um so you know

let's let's spread love before we move off um f1 in america i haven't actually um prepared for saying this as a mini topic but i am really desperate to get your views on this. I don't know if you saw yesterday the report that the Miami Grand Prix coming up. The Miami Grand Prix coming up, there's going to be a parade. Of course, there's always a parade

for drivers. There's going to be a parade for the team bosses. What do you think? I just wish that Flavio Bureatori and E.J. was done around. I think they would have loved that. Imagine E.J. on that. I love that.

Look, that, I mean, that in itself is the real drive-to-surviv effect, isn't it? Because who would have thought that team bosses would be almost as famous as the drivers? But they are, this is the thing. Christian Horn and Toto Wolf, they're famous. They are pretty down famous. It's insane. You know what? It wouldn't surprise me.

If you know, obviously, remember when we first went to Texas, we had Michael, Bifabin, given the old driver announcements. I wouldn't be shocked if we get a whole, like, head-to-head animation of, I don't know, Horner and Toto, you know, head-bussing each other with Max and Lewis underneath them of some kind of animation. You're right. It's almost like it's their own show now.

It's almost like the team buses are coming in here, and you can imagine them having their own moment in the race. And it's the show effect, isn't it? It is the show effect. they've created drama off track and on track. And hey, if it sells it and we get more fangs and it keeps the authenticity on track of Formula One, I don't hate it, I don't think we need a parade for them.

But why not? Why not get him a little tour on a bus? I mean, could you imagine even like 10 years ago suggesting this sort of, could you imagine what's his name, Finn Barra? What's his face doing it? What for the one race he was at Caterone? I mean, I can't even met, like, Ron Dennis.

You never get me, Ron Dennis on a parade lap for you. It would rip your head off before getting on that bus. In fairness, and I do enjoy Drive to Survive, but I think you've already brought up E.J. E.J. not being around in the era of Drive to Survive is the biggest travesty. It's his era. Now it's his time. He was born too early.

He was. Could you ever EJ versus Ron Dennis Drive to Survive? Yeah, that's what I want to see. Have you seen that Drive to Survive, its user rating, its newer rating is 11% positive for season four?

Yeah, I did see that. That's an interesting one. Yeah, EJ versus Ron Dennis following the 2003 Brazilian GP arguing over who won it. That's an episode in itself. Right there. Just Fisichella trailing behind

like his dad trying to prove his point. Go on, E.J. Yeah. Get in. I mean, sorry, not to bang on about Miami, because I'm short, it's going to be great. But have you also seen they've got like a lake where there's going to be like a yacht club? Fake yacht club. So that you just put yachts in a lake.

How do you get them in there? Are they being built in there? There's no... It's a great question. It's not a big enough lake. It's just got yachts in it. It's like, you might just put the yachts on land. It's like me sitting in the sink.

It doesn't work. Why am I in the sink? I would criticise the idea, but I can't because if anyone asked me, would you go along to that and be in one of them? My answer would be yes before we finish the sentence, so I can't, I can't criticise it. Would you like to go and watch the Miami GP on a yacht that's in a lake?

Yes, sure. How did it have a yacht get in a lake? Don't ask the question, just get on the boat. Exactly my point. and what do you do afterwards? Where does the yacht go? Get off again. Answers on a postcard, please.

I mean, from the yacht. First of apologies, if the last 20 minutes of your life have been completely wasted because the last Vegas Grand Prix has not been announced, but we're going to presume it has been. And you're welcome for late breaking news that is actually a breaking. That's what we're going to sing every time

there's an F1 Grand Prix again. Moving on. I'm... Black Friday is here at IKEA, and the clock is ticking on savings you won't want to miss. Join IKEA family for free today and unlock deals on everything from holiday must-havs to cozy at-home essentials, all the little and big things you need to make this season shine. But don't wait. Like leftovers at midnight, our Black Friday offers won't last.

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This was the Discord vote that we put out this week And this week we actually decided we'll pick the winner to discuss Because I actually set a deadline as to when votes had to be in That was good thinking Ben Democracy Good old democracy, thank you Palpatine Yeah we're going to be talking about teammates fighting Because we saw a bit of it in Jeddah

The Alpine guys Esteban Oconn versus Fernando Alonzo It was incredibly entertaining But we have to ask the question Should team bosses allow their drivers To fight in the way that they did? Harry, what are your thoughts? Look, from a team point of view, Alpine were Muppets last week

Because they had a chance to go after Russell And they didn't. But I can't be on that side. It was great. The Alpine battle was amazing. And I know they were, they brought, ended up losing a place to Magnuson in the end, or Ocon ended up losing a place to Manxen. And it was clear that Alonzo was a faster driver. But I don't, I don't want to see Ocon just get out the way for Alonzo.

I want them to have a ding-dong battle. And it was, arguably, that was the best battle we saw on track. I mean, maybe mine is Shal and Max. But yeah, look, I'm, I always, I completely understand team orders, especially from a team point of view. but I'm never a fan of them I don't watch F1 to watch team orders

I watch F1 to see some great racing and that Alpine battle was great racing even if it was detrimental to their final result but yeah I can't say teams should stop or you know not allow that because fair play to Alpine

for allowing it in terms of the show because it was it was it was ace do you think there is actually I think you joked about this after the race but there might be a serious point in here and that is is there a sponsor consideration here is there a brand consideration here to the point where we're talking about alpine on a podcast we wouldn't be talking about them otherwise is there is there a benefit there yeah i mean

if i mean it's a slightly cynical way of looking at it i guess but yeah i'd be joked on there that i'm sure bwt were very happy with the air time i'm sure all their sponsors were because they were you know Alpine definite marked improvement in the second race but they didn't got the quickest car this year and like say

ordinarily we wouldn't be talking about them and I'm sure they wouldn't be on the TV if it was just for as long as they were if it was just a simple swap so yeah

I mean I'm sure their partnership sponsorship team were very happy with how that went down in the end even if the end result wasn't great for them so look

you know even even their social team afterwards were you know using a clip of them being together or photo of their together because it looks really cool doesn't it both your cars on track especially the pink pink panthers as they were last race yeah I'm sure they're not complaining at all

Sam what do you think do you think that Alpine played this wrong or are you just viewing this from the fan experience of it being brilliant as a watch look Sponkers pay big money to be on the side of your car and BWT has spent even bigger money to be the whole car so for that time on screen BWT stood for for big wonga time. You know, that was impressive stuff

and I'm sure that they were absolutely someone who doesn't understand when the wonga means money in England. It's a slang word. Big money time. Big money time, but it's a W. It's got BNT, so it doesn't work.

Explain the joke. That makes it a good joke, everyone. Yeah, no. You know, from a... I don't support a team. I don't support a driver, right? I watch Formula One because I love Formula One.

I love the racing. I love the drama on track. I love will-to-will-wheel combat. I love the strategy, the engineering, the tactics. It's all fantastic. So seeing two brilliant drivers go wheel to wheel lap after lap after lap, I don't care that it's damaging their race long term.

Also, let's face it, Alping aren't favourites for the championship. And those missing points that they may have sacrificed by losing the gap to Russell, it's not going to damage their entire championship hopes of maybe coming, I don't know, fourth or fifth. The chances are they might lose a couple of million here and they own their sponsorship, but they aren't going to lose a championship because of it. Also, with hindsight, a safety car came, that reset everything, and then they never caught up to Russell anyway,

and I also had a car issue that caused him throughout the race as it was. So, team orders are a necessity of Formula One. They make sense. I understand why they exist, and when we've had battles such as Hamilton and Bottas going up against the Red Bulls, and Hamilton's is anyone up for the driver's title, and they move Bottas out the way, I get it. It makes total sense to me why that exists.

Do I want them to exist? Not really. The same as DRS, right? If every pass is made only with DRS, do I want it to exist? No, not really, but if that's any way I'm going to get will-to-wheel action, then, okay, I'll accept it. It's the same with team orders, right? If it means that the teams are happy and we get great championship battles at the end of the season,

I'm all for it, really. But would I rather see them fight on the track every single time? Yeah, 100%. They look so cool. It was so fun. It was great seeing a long-so try and use all these different wins. to get past Okon. Okon doing a great job fighting back. I loved it. I absolutely love seeing those two cars and we saw more of them than a lot of other teams up and down the grid for that race. So

I think it was great and well done to helping for let it happen as long as they did. Team was not necessary evil, but I bloody love it when teams let him go at it. Yeah, so again, you have to kind of have your two different hats. So as fan, Ben, yeah, it was fantastic. Love watching it. Also, another point with Ocon, I think it was a real statement defence for it, even though it didn't end up successful. I think him getting his elbows out and proving a point to Fernando Alonzo, I think that meant something for him. So I was glad to see him do that. And as a fan, incredibly entertaining, absolutely loved it. Harry, in terms of like taking fan ben off and putting team manager Ben on, which fortunately for any other,

F1 team isn't reality. You called them, you call them Muppets, Harry. You call them Muppets. I have written down two words, which is utter lunacy. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why they let this go on. So when they started battling, if I remember correctly, there was a second and a half between them and George Russell in what would have been fifth place at that time.

Now, reality is the Mercedes might have been two. quick for them anyway and there was nothing better to be had than a sick for a seventh place. Okay, but you've at least got to try. You've got to do your due diligence. At that point in time, it should have been Alpine's objective. Okay, we can use our two drivers to try and outwit their one driver. Lewis Hamilton wasn't in the fight. So they've got the numbers advantage. Maybe they don't have the pace advantage, but they've at least got the numbers advantage. Let's see if we can work together using DRS to get away from the guys behind and catch up to George Russell, okay? One and a half seconds between those three drivers. A number of laps later,

they are about 15 seconds behind George Russell and Valtry Bottas has got past one of them. It didn't work out very well at all, them fighting. And yes, it was incredibly entertaining, but it didn't work out for the team whatsoever. And ultimately, you know, maybe those lost points won't cost them at all in terms of the championship, but I think you have to play it that every point counts because you never know. It could come down to a point. It could come down to two points. And ultimately, we do know that Alonzo retired anyway, but they didn't know that at that point. It's not like Othmark and turn around and say, oh, we'll let them battle because Alonzo's going to retire in 30 laps time. It doesn't matter. It's not quite how it works. So I think they,

absolutely for the team's benefit, should have worked together. They weren't, they're not fighting for a championship. They might as well work together together. get up the field. And I thought that's how it should have went down. Just a bit more generally about team orders. Sam, do you think the attitude of team bosses towards team orders should change depending on the situation? So, you know, should it change if your two drivers are battling for a title versus if

they're battling for 16th and 17, for example? Well, yeah, I mean, every situation calls for a different approach, doesn't it? you know, I wouldn't speak to someone if I'm ordering ice cream the same way I would speak to someone if there was a bomb about to go off next to me. There are two separate scenarios there. I would ask them both for ice cream. Help.

Give me an eye to night with the flake. Save for both. Save for both, please. Make sure you put the flaking. Obviously, if you're fighting for 15th, 16th place and whether one driver finishes 15th or one driver finishes 16th, it doesn't matter, then why not? You might get some sponsorship.

you know, you're not going to lose too much. Even if it puts you, you know, ninth and tenth of the championship, if your sponsorships are rolling in dough with airtime, does it really matter you're making up the difference you might be? But if you've got your two drivers,

let's say Ockong and Ongo are first and second in the championship, and I don't know, Bottas and Magnuson, who are behind them a third and fourth, and you're letting them get closer and closer and closer, from a team point of view, like you do,

you put your team hat on, your Ott Mar sat there, you immediately put your foot down you go, look, one of you is going to be driver's championship, but if you keep doing this, one of you will lose it. You will be out of this. Get on with it. Say in line, take home the points, do what you can for the team. You apply every scenario to, you know, your tone to every scenario. It changes in what regards to the situation is. And Alpine, I think, know that they were able to get extra airtime. They know that they were causing excitement. They know they're being spoken about,

right that's what formula one is you create some drama on the track you drum up some attention and i think that's very good and i'm even said it on the radio you know we're letting them fight we're letting them go out there and fight each other that's fantastic that they've got that mindset they know they're not on the top of the grid yes it they threw it away a little bit with russell i don't know if they was quick anyway but yeah we don't have that hindsight and yes botas caught up to them and yes magnuson was catching up to them but hey they got so much airtime they've been spoken about everywhere and they are one of the focuses of that race because of it. So there is a positive and a negative to every situation, isn't there?

There's a flip side to every coin. And I think the situation does matter. The situation for them is, you know what? It's got a championship here. We can have some fun. And they did. And I enjoyed it. And I think everyone else enjoyed it.

Should we start selling flip coins as far more merch? If it lands on LB, you're doomed. There's an L on one side and be on the other side. Let's get this commissioned. You go for elves or please? Els. Considering it's a 50-50 choice, Sam, you'd always get it wrong. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'm terrible at heads and tails. If there's anyone that would be awful at heads and tails, it would be you, Sam. Yeah, really bad. You go like when you have a bit of toast, right, and you've got jam on your toast. You're walking from, I don't know, the kitchen to your lounge or whatever with your jam.

You know what it falls off the plate. Mine will always fall with a jam, down on the carpet. Isn't there a scientific theory behind that? Yeah, it's heavy. It's heavier. It's heavy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I am the reason for it being that way. Not the science behind it. Man, we are covering the important points this week. We really are. Things that haven't yet been announced, jam falling out of Sam's hands, everything important is being covered. We talk about that food.

Is it heads or tails everywhere? in the world. I think so. It's a good question. Is it a head in the tail? Question the other week. On your coins. Queen Lizzie is the head.

I don't know. We don't really have tails either on the back of the coin, do we? It's just a symbol that isn't the queen's head. Please get in touch. At Desjardin Insurance, we put the care in taking care of business. Your business to be exact.

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It seems like it's, it's been a little bit of a while. But pump the brakes is where we get our good friend, Children's TV presenter, Dave Benson Phillips, who won't actually appear on the show. He gunges us if we give awful opinions. So the three of us will give an opinion in turn, and the other two will have to say whether they should pump the brakes or whether they should keep going with that opinion,

whether they think it's absolutely fine. If they both say, pump the brakes, that's where Dave comes in and that's when the gunging happens. It will make sense when we get onto it. But this is another opportunity for Sam, not necessarily to sing us in,

but to at least shout us in. Pump the break! So to be clear, if one of us gives an opinion and the other two both say pump the brakes on this, this is what will happen. Dave Benson Phillips gets 50p for it from us.

So, Harry, do you want to start us off on this one. What is an opinion that might be deemed controversial? Yeah. Okay, my opinion, and this is off the back of a good weekend for this driver, but my opinion is that Sergio Perez, and we're going back on the

past there, Sergio Perez, in 2013 when he moved to McLaren, McLaren didn't produce a dog of a car and they produced a good car, he would have been a championship contender. Oh. Off the back of a very good 2012, hence why McLaren employed him.

in that season specifically if the 2013 car was good he'd have been a championship contender yeah Sam I agree with you yeah I was not expecting that at all I wasn't expecting you to say something I agree with either

but actually Sergio Perez is especially I think actually oh yeah I just agree with you he doesn't have the ability or longevity or consistency that he has now in his career but he still had a lot of more talent I think actually he might have been a faster driver

in his earlier days than his career not as consistent but I think he had more more pace yeah with a motivation behind him of an early winning championship in his career yeah I don't know if he have won the championship but a contender yeah I can I can go along with that I love me some Sergio Perez but you can have a day off on this one

Nah, I don't think he was ready at that point in time. Give it a few more years, I might well have agreed with you, but I don't think he would have been ready in 2013. I do think his season at McLaren is massively not under height. It wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. That season at McLaren was nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. But in terms of championship contending, I don't think he was there yet. Oh, well.

Start you avoid it. You don't get gunged because Sam agreed with you. So Dave, you won't be making a pound 50 this evening, I'm afraid. Maximum is a pound. Sam, what's your one? I think I could be getting gunged, and I think the wider community could be gunging us. Because I think this is quite controversial.

I'm not something I've ever heard someone say before. But I think, and this doesn't mean I don't want to, by the way. I'm prefixing this with it. doesn't mean I don't want to, but I think that watching a Formula One Grand Prix is better on your television than it is actually at the track. Holy smokes. Who wants to go first, Ben? Yeah, go on, go ahead.

Can I, because I think there's a very distinct clarification to what is better. What is better? What do you mean by the overall experience? because I think I can I feel like I know where you're going with this because I think I can agree watching an F1 race on the TV you know what's going on

whereas when you're at a track It's amazing but you don't know what's It's much harder to keep up with what's going on You miss things If you want to see people You want to talk to people like F1 If you want to hear cars

And see one corner for two hours Yes It's great But if you want to follow the race, if you want to see all the drama, if you want to know what's happening in the championship, if you want to catch every second of Formula One over a race weekend, it is better to sit on your sofa and watch it on the telly. And because of that, I find it hard to split my enjoyment more one than the other, because there's nothing more better to me than watching the F1 on the

telly. I absolutely love it, right? Every time it comes on, I adore it. So going to a Grand Prix, it would be very hard to top the levels because I feel like I'd be so uncertain as to what's happening that I would be like I kind of rather I just saw everything on the telling. Do you know what I mean? It's a different experience.

I totally understand where you're coming from but I can't agree because I think I like watching it out of the track too much but I want 100% know where that's coming from because you're right a track you don't know what's going on after the time but I can't quite agree with you.

That's fine. I appreciate you tried. Did you have you tried? Ben's rubbing his hands together like a menace. I'm with you, Sam. I agree. Back in your cage, Dave! I agree. I completely understand what you're saying.

If you are looking for a total experience, then yes, obviously, the total. social experience is there at the track. If someone came along to me tomorrow and said, hey, you can have tickets to this race. I'm not going to turn around and say, nah, I'll catch it on my TV. It's all right. Right. Correct. In terms of the enjoyment of the race very specifically as to what's going on, yes, you got a better experience on that you can see everything. You aren't just looking at one corner and you can understand what's going on. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm,

with you. Oh, Dave, sorry, mate. He was literally stood there filling it up next to me. Sorry, mate. 50p maximum for you, if then comes out with a belt are in. Well, get Dave to take notes

coming on the podcast. He hates us. Let's see what your chances are with this one, Dave. This one very specifically worded. So I will provide context if you'd like before giving your opinion.

here. But I shall I say enjoy somewhere between enjoy and don't mind. I like Drive to Survive putting Team radio that didn't happen in the moment that they showed it

as long as it isn't demolishing the character of the driver that it's referring to. Do you have an example? So an example would be there is an episode of drive to survive that looks at Daniel Ricardo Monza and he gets a very good start

and he's leading into turn one and over team radio I can't for the life from you remember who Daniel Ricardo's engineer is he says that that's a great start Daniel now in that moment he definitely didn't say it because he is going through turn one and he is not talking to his driver

at that moment in time but it provides the context of if you don't understand you know it's been a good start I like that. You go first, Sam. For contextual aid, I have no issue with it. Even if they record it after the race

and they go, you know what, it'll be great if we could get Daniel's engineer to say, that's a great start, Daniel, to build excitement. That's included. I am okay. Because you could, because you assume that Daniel's race engineer

is sat there going, that's a great start, Daniel, in his head, right? He's leading the Grand Prix. That is fine. I actually have no issue with that. You're right, though, and I think you were right to say you had specific wording, that what I absolutely loathe is taking a driver's radio call from a...

One of you is squeaking into the microphone, by the way, with your breathing, which is quite entertaining. No idea who that was. It's taking radio from another race or another incident and applying it to something that is completely different, a relevant changing the tone or what was the intention behind it because that is pure fabrication of drama or intent or rivalries but I think Ben you're exactly right even if they go and record audio

that never even took place on a team radio to provide accurate context to what someone was thinking I'm for it I think that's fine Harry you are boardline here beanbag but I'm going to let you slide Oh, thank you. Dave, no money for you at all today, but I, yeah, it's fine, but it's borderline because what they do, they don't do that very often. Most of the time, it's making up radio that doesn't exist or radio completely out of context. But in this instance, I get it. It makes sense to do it.

And it's what it should be for the rest of the time, not just random bits of radio when, where, where they're, shouldn't be so um but yeah oh i agree oh thank you um and you're welcome apologies dave um i guess we should all be gunged for not giving dave a gunging moment so we shall enjoy this together a luxury gunge yeah cheers dave a pause before the third one isn't there i feel like i feel like if we ever do a live show we should definitely have a real gung machine. But we're not getting gunged right?

No, no, we'll do it with audience members or something, I don't know. If you'd like to be gungg, just get in touch. I'm also thinking of maybe getting the wiggles involved as another child of favourite presenting team because... Niche. I saw them live for my fifth birthday. They were fantastic. I know all the songs.

If you would like a late-breaking live show in Las Vegas next year, let us know because not only would we like to put that on, also that would take away the issue of it being 3am when we watch the race. So two birds, one stone as far as I'm always. Either that or the yacht on the lake would be everywhere. Yeah, we could do with the wiggles on the lake, that's fine.

These are some scary promises that I don't know if we can uphold, but hey, that's the lake-breaking motto. No, I'm very confident we can't uphold them, Sam. It's definite certainty there. Well, I think that's probably about it for this week. We'll be back in preview mode next week because we're going to Australia and it's going to be a bit of a shock to the system for us Europeans because we haven't had Australia for a couple of years

and it will be an early start. But as mentioned, we are not allowed to complain about it because we are very lucky and privileged. Sam, until next week, would you mind getting us out of here? Yeah, folks, just a reminder that we will not be here at the weekend, of course. There is no race, unfortunately. So you can miss us. You can build the attention to us coming back next week for the Australian preview at some silly...

I'm not complaining at all. I'm very lucky. I'm incredibly lucky person. Thank you. No, promise not. If you have enjoyed it, leave it lovely review. Say something nice, even if it's got about the podcast. Just put your favourite cheese in a review or something.

Or say something about the podcast. That would also be great. You know, we've got Discord in the description below. If you'd like to join a community of over 500 people talking about Formula One all the time. Then please do get involved. We have lots of fun over there. We've got things like quizzes that happen occasionally as well. And you get to be involved in production, choosing topics.

We'll even get you on sometimes, as you may have heard in the Race Review for Jeddah. Follow us on social media. We've got TikTok now, which is really weird. We've only got two videos We are cool I'm renegating as I'm saying The exit folks Is that TikTok?

Anyway, yeah I think we're just Late Breaking podcast on TikTok I need to got two videos But hey there will be more Twitter is at L breaking Late Breaking podcast on Instagram Join the Patreon

If you've got a little bit of Dosh At the end of the month to spend And we've got merch If you want to wreck the LB logo Wherever it is in the world Someone bought one in New Zealand So we're on the other side of the planet Thank you

Mad, thank you, crazy. We really appreciate that. I've enjoyed it. Dave has the Wiggles say goodbye, and in the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been bad hocking. And I've been back. Oh, no.

I'm messed up. Don't wait, I can edit that out. No, what I was going to say was, I've been big shack Villeneuve. It's ruined now, so don't worry about it. Whatever. I'll remember. Bye.

Keep breaking late. I'm going to go get in the sink. Big show. Cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.