The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Late Braking F1 Podcast: 17/10/19

Episode Date: October 17, 2019

Leclerc is 'much, much better' than Verstappen. The words of a certain Eddie Irvine, the guys react and give their take on the duo. Also, will F1 race in Miami? And which F2 drivers deserve a shot in F1? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. Thank you for listening to the late-breaking F-1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grong-Free Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome. This is the late-breaking Formula One podcast. We're on one of those in-between weeks, I'm afraid. You know, one of those sad weeks where there's no F-1 lighting our way at the end of on the weekend.

But we'll have some juicy discussions to get into anyway. We're going to be discussing F1, maybe going to Miami for a second potential time. We're going to be talking about the F2 drivers, who we think has F1 potential in the future. But first, we will be getting to Eddie Irvine making a controversial statement about Max Westappan and Chau LaClair that I'll get to in just a moment. But first of all, Harry Ead, Samuel Sage, both joining me today. I'm Ben Hocking. Guys, how are you here? Are you?

I am. I'm convinced I am. Well, that's always nice to hear. Folks, listening, how are you? Hope you're having a grand old day listening to us on the LB podcast. Controversial topics. Eddie Irvine getting involved in the old news going out on there. You know, not often one to speak out and about, but he has declared that LeClaire be better than Bostappen.

What say you? Can I just say, before we get into it, Eddie Irvine is only second to Jacques Villeneuve in people that I don't care what they have to say. I'll have you know, he's the only Formula One driver

bar David Cauter that's held me in his arms. I know, well, you redeemed it with DC, but I mean, Eddie Irvine, whatever, mate. Whatever. I have to say it is hilarious how much you don't care about X drivers making bold statements about current drivers.

To give, to preface it, Eddie Irvine did make this statement before the Japanese Grand Prix, which makes it quite funny, to be honest, because he said that Charleclair is a much, much better driver than Max Verstappen, and one of the reasons he gave was that Charles LeClaire makes fewer errors. Of course, the ironic thing being Charles LeClair driving into Max Wastappen at Suzuki. Sam, first of all, do you agree with the statement that he is much, much better? And if you do, why?

And if you don't, why? I want to start by emphasizing the double much that was used. Much, much better. Like we're comparing me driving around in like one of those playmobile yellow and red cars on a go-car track, running around with my feet out the bottom. Vintage. And Charlotte Clare and a Ferrari. That's what it feels like the comparison is.

We're comparing Max O'Sastafin, who the first time he got into a Red Bull car, he held off two Ferraris and one on his first ever racing a Red Bull. a car that was not the superior car. Yes, Max Verstappen has made a lot of mistakes. Max Verstappen came into that senior seat as an incredibly young age and has almost carried the weight of the Red Bull team on his shoulder for quite some time.

Now, even when Riccara was there, he was always seen as the Golden Boy, the Wonder Boy. And I don't see how you can't see absolute pure talent in Max Verstaffan. Charlotte Claire is an incredible Formula One talent, but to say that Charlotte Claire is much, much better than Max Verstaffin because of a lack of mistakes.

One, Charlotte Clair's only had two, well, a seasoner. half in Formula One. A lot less time to make that obvious. We've seen some serious mistakes for Charlotte Clare this season alone. He made something out for last time as well. I mean, it was a great sping, but a sping under Lessing, Hockingheim last season, and that really cost him some points.

I only just finished with him by Marcus Erickson, rest in peace, Marcus, your Formula One career. And I generally just think that they're very level at the moment. You know, they've got some real potential, both them to be like almost kind of Sera and Prost-esque through this next period of Formula One. So no, he's not much, much better. I think there are a real strong level in playing. Oh, I actually almost say that currently for me, Max Verstaffin is the better of the two drivers just,

or actual complete packaging of a driver. Qualifying, I think, that LeClau has it, but I think overall, I think Max is still that better, more experienced driver. Harry, Eddie Irvine, saying much, much better. Do you agree with Mr. Irvine, or are you going to rip him a new one? I ignore that it was if I understood it, because otherwise I'm just going to go off from a rant. For the statement itself, then, no, I'm with Sam, I don't agree. And I think it's unfair to put that statement on LeClau, because LeClau is only, he's not even had two, four seasons yet.

He's just about to finish season two of his F on career. He's been pole vaulted into a Ferrari seat deservedly, but early doors in his career. and he's shown he's got the pace, he's won races, but then he's also showing he's vulnerable to making mistakes, which he has done this year, like when he binned it in Germany and Vestappen won, and then he crashed into Vastappen at the weekend. So, yeah, unfair statement to make on Lecler,

you know, I don't know why, I know why he said it because he's a moron, but he just won't be in the headlines. Yeah, it's not true, but that's not the same. say in a few years' time that LeCler might be better than Vestappen once mistakes have been ironed out just as Bostappan did, you know, last year in 2018. And now look at Vastappan, he rarely makes mistakes now. So, yeah, unfair statement, don't agree with it, but not say that LeClearn might not be one day. Just going to interject before Benegger's opinion, a position to start driver's pole vaulting

into their driver's seats. To go around, please. immediately. I would love to see drivers with pole vaults into their car. Great idea. I will sign up for that. To go back to something slightly more on topic, yeah,

I don't agree at all. I think it's absolutely not true. Eddie Irvine has completely whiffed on this one. And the thing is, I wouldn't have mind if he went out and said, I think Shaul-Laclair is a better driver than Max for Stappen.

That kind of a statement is absolutely fine. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it at this point in their respective careers, but that is an opinion you could hold and you could probably back it up and you could argue it the other way as well. But to say that either one of those two drivers is much, much better than the other, I just can't quite follow it and I don't agree with it. And Eddie Irvine, he attempted to back up his view by saying that the reason he thinks Charles LeClair is better is because he doesn't make as many mistakes, which, okay,

after a year and a half of F1, Vastappen was probably making more mistakes than Charle LeClaire is now, but we're not comparing them at their respective points in their career. We're comparing them directly now. And at the moment, Charleclair is making more mistakes than Max Verstappen, let alone, you know, the same amount. Charles LeClair, and like I say, these comments were made before Suzuki, so even if you take out that incident, you've still got so many this year where Shao LeClaire, who I will say has had a really good first year at Ferrari, he has made mistakes. You alluded to Germany, Harry, but there's also been Monaco where he was just overzealous when he's starting at the back and he wasn't able to cut his way through the field like Max Verstappen did the year beforehand. And we've also got Azerbaijan. He probably had the pace to win. there. He binned it in qualifying. Hungary, okay, he didn't have the place to win there, but again, binned it in qualifying. There are a number of incidents he's had this year, which has made it a far

from flawless year for him. So the whole fewer mistakes thing just doesn't make sense to me. And I actually think that by the end of their careers, I actually reckon Lecler is going to have a marginally better career than Verstappen. I think it will be very close. And I think those two might well be the guys to take F1 into the future. But they are so evenly matched. We saw it at Austria. We've seen it a couple of times already this year. They are almost neck and neck in terms of points.

And once Leclair gets some more experience in Formula One to really match that of the Stappen, then we can really see them go at it, depending on where their teams are. But yeah, I think Eddie Irvine is wrong with these comments. Wrong, wrong, wrong. So, just to do some of the LB verdict is Eddie Irvine, you are wrong. I'm sure he is going to be utterly devastated. Well, he will. He held me like the baby than I am, and now I've rebelled against him. I can't believe how that always makes its way into videos. It really shouldn't.

It's a very important claim that LB. have. Anyway, so enough of Vastappen and Leclair for the moment. We'll move on to F1 claiming that they have an agreement to race in Miami. And this might well be deja vu because, of course, they had that in principle. Once around the American Airlines arena, that didn't come through thanks to some pesky people in Miami saying, it's going to create too much noise or whatever they said. Fair enough, you know, who would have disturbed their lifestyle, whatever. So the question is, again, this is pending approval from the county, but this could happen around Miami's Hard Rock Stadium.

Harry, as early as 2021 as well, do you think that this is going to come through for them and do you think this is a good idea? Before I answer. Welcome to Miami. We're going to Miami. Great. Copyright. Copyright strikes. What is going to come through?

not confident but saw the layout of the track last night or the few renders of the track that came at last night and it looks well it's more entertaining than the original one they had planned in downtown Miami

or wherever it was yeah got some interesting bits in it whether it goes ahead who knows and I saw an interesting comment about Cota and they need to be careful about alienating Cota because because that tracks a fixture in the F1 calendar now.

They don't want to, I know they want more than one American race, but they need to solidify. I think they still need to solidify that tracks place on the F1 calendar because it's not always been popular, but it's gathered some momentum now and need to make sure they don't lose that by taking its status as the only US Grand Prix away. So yes, it needs to be careful of that.

Yeah, who knows what it's going to happen. They've already, like you say, deja vu, they've already said it once before. It could all fall through again. But in principle, not opposed to it. Sam, what do you reckon? Well, in Miami, you can't miss a drip on the strip. I genuinely think that the track that they propose,

if it is a purpose-built track, not some car park, not some streets in a tight, winding area that we've just gone, we can close down that bit for a weekend. I want a built circuit. kit. I am all up for another American track. It's a big enough country. It can sustain it. It's both sides of the country

as well. That works. The track looks good. It's got an epically long straights down one end. It's got some great tight twisting corners. There are overtaking spots that they have been proposed. I am all up for another American Central chilling out Hawaiian shirts. You know, we're on the beach.

We're living the dream. That's the F1 Grand Prix I would be happy to go to. I think it will really bring in a crowd. It will boost F1's morale, F1's reputation around the US. I don't think it's a good idea if they can build a proper circuit and we're not just using a road that goes around a casino or a nightclub, please. Benjamin, what do you think?

Well, I think they're track record with street circuits and non-purpose built circuits. It isn't great, is it? I mean, if you look at... Park Park. Caesar's Palace, of course, number one. the list but if you look at Dallas and Detroit Phoenix none of them have really none of them caught on and none of them were able to to really build anything of a brand for themselves and they weren't able to have decades worth of races they were pretty much either

one and done or a few years and it was off the calendar so yeah they need to be need to be wary of that what you say about Cota is is absolutely right I think the US is definitely big enough of a market or at least a potential market to have two races. And I think it is fair to have one of them at a purpose-built circuit like Cota, if you were going to go to, I don't know, Indy or Watkins Glen or whatever, and then have one street circuit as well. The question is whether they are going to, the people of Miami are going to embrace this, just like the likes of Melbourne and Singapore have.

I expect they're going to need some high-level entertainment on the side, some artists like they do with Singapore, sometimes with Abu Dhabi, where F1 perhaps isn't strong enough by itself to pull in these massive crowds. They might need help in that respect. But having looked at the artist's rendition of the track, I think it looks good. And yeah, I think this really falls on the people of Miami. Are they going to come out in droves to support this event? Is it going to be that major boost for the Miami economy like F1 are claiming it to be?

It's all very well, Sean Bratch is going out there saying it'll be worth this X amount of money for the city. But, you know, if there's just nothing there, if there's no interest, if they can't get that spark generated, it's going to be all for nothing. So I think there is a good chance that goes ahead. I think it's got more chance than the original proposal did. But yeah, the longevity of this race is all going to be based on the people of Miami. Are they invested in Formula One? or are they going to go back to, or are they going to stick in their roots with other series in America that are more popular?

Well, here's how Miami are going to accept Formula One. Lewis Hamilton on a jet ski is coming in and then pulling up in a $100 million car, everybody got him, is going to be Will Smith because Miami's his second home. So he's going to turn up. Lewis Hamilton's going to turn up with him. They're going to walk in and be like, F-1's here, y'all. that's it, that we done. Pre-show, three hours, pit bull, just saying Miami.

Mr. Worldwide. Yeah, every hour with Mr. World War. And then just three states away, you could have, what's his name, sits there and goes, Mugabang, man, Sean Paul. That's the guy. Well, at least this conversation didn't descendant nonsense. Oh, dear, Sean Foggles. Every time.

It's impressive how it does. Sorry, podcast lessons. Now, of course, that would be another track on the calendar, and it would be as early as 2021 if it did go ahead. We're really getting towards almost 25 races at this point. It's heading that way. Do you think something needs to be done in terms of the calendar now, Harry? because if this goes ahead, there's just going to be too many races, surely.

What if we asked whoever is in charge of the actual month to make another month, and we'll call it F1 month? A manuary. A manuary. Yes. I mean, not only have you made up that someone is in charge of months, you then called it a man. you worry. I'm not suggesting that the men are in charge of the month,

so that's just the first thing that came to my head. Yeah, and then extra room for the F1 races. This is true. This is an idea I kind of, I pitched it to Sam the other day, so I'll say it again, as we're now on air, seems appropriate to say it.

What if we had some sort of system where there were a set number of races in a season, and say 15 or so. And then there are five other races in a year, but those are alternated between 10 different tracks. So you've got 10 circuits that have biannual races and then 15 circuits that get a race every year. That way you're getting through 25 circuits every two years

without having the major congestion in a year. What do you think about that, dear? I love that idea. I mean, if America wants to have two races, coat a one year, street racing, Florida, the next year, that works brilliantly. We've also got other tracks in the UK that could get a little bit of love. Donington has always done

well in Formula One. Do you ever know? At the Donington. Fine. We'll go back to Walton Towers. You know, there's tracks like the Nuerberg Green and Hockenheim that could take over. Magnicor and Paul Richard. They could swap about as well. Valencia was...

No, never mind. Sorry, I don't know what I'm going on that one. Monzer and Imola, of course, if that was picked back up, maybe that could be excited if the track was widened. Ben, I think it's a fantastic idea. And it means we get to go to more places. It's more excited, even if, You didn't alternate between country tracks. You have the likes of bring India back for one season instead of Singapore or something.

I don't know. That could be good fun. It could be interesting. But if we brought India back, that would mean Vettel wins by default, because no one else apart from Vettel can win at that circuit. It's actually the rule. Harry, what do you think of the idea? Well, Ben, I don't like to compliment you, but that's quite a good idea.

I mean, this is well established you don't like to do that, so thank you. I felt a bit ill. It was a bit ill, but a sick came in my throat then when I said. it but um yeah uh i love it i love that idea and it saves yeah the stress of having to cut races you're not cutting them you're just alternating or yeah no love it awful right pitch it it you can rock up to sean branch's house and just pitch it to him right this is my direct pitch to shaw me be so everyone prepare for this because this this could be really important you could be watching this i mean it's largely what i've said already but previously i was just

to everyone. Now I'm talking to you, Sean Bratchez, directly. I'm cutting out every other listener and viewer at this point. I'm sorry, but Sean, one-on-one conversation here. Okay, it just involves me, but a one-on-one conversation. Pick up this idea, man. 15 set races a year, 10 circuits that alternate so they have five each year. Do it now, honestly. And I'll let you take the credit for it. I won't even ask to have credit for it. I mean, you know, plug LB in a few places if you could. you know, have us as the starting lights. You could just have LB in the middle of them or something like that. The Honeken Stars over the track, but it's a big LB.

That would be beautiful. Yeah, so I look forward to your response, Sean. Thank you. I'm going to propose another idea that could go along with this, actually, and it's a little bit wacky racer-esque. Weck. Weck is a fantastic racing category. I love a multi-close.

last race. Let's get F1, F2 and maybe something else on the grid at the same time we do a proper insurance race with multiple drivers and F1 cars. Wow. That's bold. Wacky races are this finest. That really is. You know, there's a one-off maybe. Every few years, maybe almost like the Olympics. I mean, I think it'll be bigger than the Olympics. Yeah, no doubt it would overtake the Olympics very, very quickly indeed. Moving on, and it's quite a good transition, because we are going to go into some F2 drivers now, and discuss who we think in that category could well make it in Formula One. Harry, I'll kick off with you on this one.

Are there any standouts for you when you look at them and say, yes, you are going to make F1, son, and you are going to do a good job? Yeah, you got a clue. I'm just going to get the obvious answer out of the way. Ragging nothing. don't need to don't need to get into F1 Oh get into F1

Right that's what we're talking about Sorry Who could get into F1 from F2 Well Mick Schumacher Obviously Latifi I think he might be in it next year For all we know

I'm trying to think of F2 drivers Now Guiotto potentially particularly off there in F1 one day. She really got a list of F2 drivers up in front of see that's what Sam is doing. See, that would have helped a lot.

But, I mean, is there one of those guys where they kind of raise themselves above pack, do you think? Well, I don't know. This year was a, I'm not saying it was a poor year, but if we compare it to last year as well in particular, it's

not the best F2 grid we've seen for a while. So no one, I don't know if anyone particularly stood out. I mean, the obvious one is Nick DeFries, but he's already going off to Formula 80. But I think he could have a spot in Formula One if he wanted it. Yeah.

No one in particular stands out there, but there are a smattering of drivers in there that I think make it. And of course, Radclanathan is the most important of that list anyway. Yeah. But of course, we know Radclanathan is going to become the first 10-time world champion in F-1 history, which is just a matter of time on that one. Sam, do you have any standouts? Do you have a few guys?

Yeah, well, I'm going to kind of run through some really brief bits and kind of do a deep dive into some analysis, which is I know. My mother listens to this podcast and she hates that expression. So we're going to do a big of a deep dive. So there are some people that I think will ever make it into Formula One, those being Calderon, those being Ranganathan, or Rangunathan. I don't know how you say it's name of Apollongon. Rangunathan. Either way, I'm saying it right, one of them. ways.

I don't think that unless they're going to spend an absolute ton of money, I don't think they ever deserve to make it in on talent. Obviously, Nick DeFries is gone. A few years ago, maybe had the opportunity to get in there, but no, he's gone. Latifi, Guiotto, I think too old now. They've lost yet. I think they've got to that point with their, what, 24, 25. They're at that point now within their final year of this junior category.

They need to go off and do something. That won't be Formula One. I don't think. Latifi, obviously, maybe has that chance of Williams, but I don't think that's set in stone. You've got people like Matsushita, again, a little bit. older. Not sure he's really up to the scratch now Formula One. It's maybe past it. He's older than some of the youngest F1 drivers out there like, like of course, for Stapp and Leclair and the likes. But there are also some really promising names. And the first one you've got

to shout out for, obviously super sad, he's unfortunate, is Hubert. Hubert was an absolute brazen talent, of course, the final GP3 champion and was doing super well in the most current series. He's still in front of Mick Schumacher on points for this season. And he didn't get to compete in the last few races. So I think Hubekoy will be a real talent. Nick Schumerer is another one of those. I do think that with his influence, with his name, with his talent, he is going to have an F1 drive. I don't think he'll be as successful as his father, but I do think there is an F1 drive waiting for him. The two that really, really stand out for me are going to be a young Japanese driver and a young Chinese driver. And this is something that I think Formula One is missing

that Eastern influence. And that is going to be Zhao, which I'm definitely getting wrong, and Sato. And then of course you've got Patto Award, who is coming through as well. but those two for me at the moment are the two really promising drivers. Both 20 years old. Both have got great links to teams up above them. You know, Renner being the main of those two. And I generally think that they could have a bit of influence on the Formula One grid. I think they've got talent.

They're scoring points. Sato looks promising because he was only in it for a few races at the end of the season. Jow did really well. He finished, I think, in the top eight or nine drivers. He looked really promising. And he's super young. He's got at least another year in F2 where he can build that. I'm excited for both of those two.

I think Hubert will be in the, other guarantee to get into F1 in the next year or so. May Mick Schumacher being the fourth of that. But those two for me are what I think is going to turn Formula 1 around. It almost an Eastern influence kind of thing. It could make China a really big part of F1. There could be a race in China if he becomes a big name in the sport. So I'm excited to see those two move up.

Yeah, I think probably the most likely to move up, or at least the most immediate likelihood of moving up, is Nicholas Latifi, just because he is probably the only guy in F2, who has a reasonable chance of being in F1 next year, that William's seat might well become available for him. Yeah, I think Schumacher partly because he has got some talent and partly because of his name, I think they'll combine and give him a very good chance of appearing in F1.

Guan Yuzu, like you just said, obviously, Sam, he's done a good job this year. He is significantly younger than most of the drivers who are above him in the championship as well. Also, when some of those depart, he might well find himself in contention for the championship next year. I absolutely agree with you on Antoine O'Bair. If this question was posed a few months ago, he probably would have been my number one on this list. And Jack Aitken, who hasn't been mentioned yet, I think his links to Renault,

whether this Campos associated team starts up in F1, he might have a chance there. So he could well appear as well. but here's for something a little controversial. I don't think there is one driver in Formula 2 at the moment who will succeed in Formula 1. I don't think there is one. Perhaps the closest I think would be Mick Schumacher, but I don't think he's got the potential to live up to the top guys in Formula 1. Mick Schumacher, what, currently sat 12th in the championship?

He's outside the top 10 regardless. And I understand based on his F3 days that he does generally take time, to get used to a series. But I just don't think he's got that same level of Charlerclair, George Russell, talent where they were able to win the championship as rookies. Schumack has walked in. There have been a few good performances here and there, but it's been nowhere near consistent enough.

And I just think there's something holding them a lot of the others back. Latifi set a camera. Latifi, he would have made it already if he was good enough. And that's going to sound pretty horrible. but I really think he would already be there. If he was good enough, same with Luca Guiyoto, same with Noboharo Matsushita. Guan Yuzu, he does have a few more years on those guys,

so he might stand a chance, but again, he didn't really perform in Formula 3. He's done well in Formula 2. It's one of those weird occasions where it was an underwhelming Formula 3 career for him, but he's actually done much better in F2. Aitken, I can put him in the same category as Latifi. he had a chance teammates with George Russell he was beaten by him so I actually I actually don't think there's anyone on the grid right now and set a camera who I said as well he's he's a solid driver but

just doesn't have he just doesn't pick up enough wins he really doesn't push it to the next level so I'm going to say that there is no driver in Formula 2 and I challenge all 20 of them to get into Formula 1 and prove me wrong and play this back to me in five years time I don't think any of them going to do anything special in Formula One. So if you think, and I actually, now you've mentioned it, I think I am inclined to agree with you about the potential of those drivers. I do think maybe Sato or Zhaar on the two people, if they can continue the way they're going are the two people that might have a chance. But obviously, F3 is the next step down.

Who do you see is the young potential influence that could come up through the ranks? See, I think there's more potential in F3 at the moment than there is an F2. I think Robert Schwartzman will make F1, and I think he will have a good career in F1 as well. I think Marcus Armstrong is potentially on that path as well. Yuri Vips, I think he will eventually end up in the Red Bull seat or at least in a Toro-Rosso seat and if he's good enough for the Red Bull seat. And Christian Lundgaard as well. I think he will do well in F-1 one day. So I think there are up to maybe four or five guys in F-3 at the moment who I think will appear in F-1.

It's odd. We have such an incredible amount of talent there through F-2 that likes to like you say, Landon-Norris, Russell, Vastappen, Holkenberg was in there just before those guys. the Clare obviously came through and then we had the likes of Hamilton and there were so many incredible drivers all within kind of a 10 year gap of each other and you're right

this feels like the first year that is incredibly underwhelming I mean Nick Debreed is a great driver but he's almost just a strong driver in a weak field and that's why no one never picked him up in F1 I don't think and that's why he's off to Formula E which we shouldn't say it's a bad series of course Formula E is very competitive drivers as well and he's still in its own right a very competitive

series but it still hasn't got the prestigious Formula One to its name I think DeFries is a lot unlucky with the timing of Norris arriving on the scene, because he was McLaren's young driver, and then Norris turned up and was Lando Norris about everything. And then, yeah, I don't know if McLaren dropped him, or, yeah, it's just kind of drifted into nothing else.

But, yeah, now he's off to Fort McLeon instead. Although, apparently, if anyone saw the G-Ox Dragon team Twitter today, Landon Norris drives to them as well. But I need to go and check that one out. Everyone needs a bite of the Norris. Yeah. Need some milk. I should also say as well,

it sounds a bit critical of all those F2 drivers, but I mean, they are all immensely talented. Other than Rekhounathan, you are awful. But the rest of them are all talented individuals, and we are comparing them against the absolute elite of motorsports. And it's only because we're comparing them against that kind of talent that some of these views might be a bit critical. But hey, we're here to have opinions, aren't we? And I do actually think that the current, you know, Academy of F1 that

we have at the moment is some of the best we've ever seen as well. The grid in terms of quality of drivers over the last two, three years has been astoundingly good. And the young talent that have stepped up into F1 recently have also been incredible. So always tough to impress when you're up against some big names like that. Indeed. So actions for both of you. Harry, if you you can get in contact with Rakunathan and get him on the show for next week. And until that time, Sam, can you get us out here? Well, I think so. I'm very much looking forward to Raghunathan being on the show.

Apologies to my pronunciation aiming correctly. If you have enjoyed listening to the podcast, to the show, then please, of course, make sure you follow, subscribe, get involved, we're over on Twitter or over on Instagram. And thank you for taking your time out of your day to give us a listen. We very much appreciate it. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking.

I've been Harry Eats. And remember, Keep breaking late.