The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Making friends with F1 Driver, Anthony Davidson | Friends of the Podcast

Episode Date: February 5, 2023

Apologies, it's been a while - but we're back with another Friends of the Podcast episode! This time, we have former F1 driver and Sky F1 pundit, Anthony Davidson joining us. He talks through his career in F1, chats about what it's like being a TV pundit, and also challenges Sam in a game of Late Faking... JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. Folks, we're sorry, we haven't done one of these episodes in a very, very long time. but we're turning over a new leaf for 2023. We're going to get more of these Friends of the podcast episodes in. And we're starting out strong because we are joined by none other than Anthony Davidson.

Thank you so much for joining us, Sam. Hello, yeah, no problem at all. Yeah, it's good to be here. Good stuff. Are you feeling refreshed out of the 23 season? We've obviously had first livery a couple of days ago, so we're starting to get back into it now. Yeah, I am. Yeah, again, and starting to get itchy fingers, now waiting to get back into it. It's funny, when you get to the end of the season, you often think, oh, I can't possibly do another one of these.

They're way too long, and I just want to enjoy this winter break as long as possible. And then it gets about two weeks in, and you start thinking, hmm, it wasn't so bad after all. And you're really thinking, come on. Yeah, so yeah, keen to get back on the road now and fully recharge, rare it to go. Good stuff. well in that case I'll hand over to Sam

because he's going to ask you about your early years properly grill you I'm kidding yeah well I think grill is a good start because actually I'm going to completely diverge from the questions we prearranged because you mentioned it before we jumped onto actually recording and you've just eaten and our lovely listeners have a weird thing

about knowing what people have for dinner and I just want to know if it's okay with you tell me no, I'll tell me no, I'll take a shout up what did you have for dinner for TV before you came on well it's my son's favorite and he's had a long holiday at school and so i've cooked for heaters tonight oh yeah so it's it's always a winner in this family and uh particularly i'm playing around with the uh my mexin teammates in wecs uh for the last couple of seasons um yeah

they uh taught me all the ins and outs of how to uh how to do it properly so yeah i should maybe get you on to do a cooking lesson no no right let's actually get into the proper question questions. Okay. Sam's going to leave now. That's all you want to say. He doesn't care about it. That's all I like to know.

Right. So, question of winding. What was it that got you hooked on motorsport from such a young age? Obviously, you got into it really young. What was it that kind of brought you into the world of motorsport? It was my father, really. He's by profession. He's retired now, but he was a commercial artist and traditional sign writer as well.

And I know you're probably thinking, what's that guy? do a racing, but he was always an avid fan of motorsport would always read the magazine so he was into hot rods as well in the US and his brother, so my uncle, who's 10 years older

than him, he really was the one that was into motorsport. So my father, kind of he would go along with him to some races like Brand's hatch and stuff to watch as many different types of racing as they could. And he got chatting to people around in the

paddock in those days of course you could mingle a lot easier and offered to sign write their cars for them back before the days before vinyl cutters and sticky you know a fabric that we have today that you can do quick artwork on cars it wasn't like that back then and he started to to do a few jobs with people in the palat in the and the racing scene and that's kind of how he got into into racing never a driver himself but when he had his kids, i.e. me and my brothers, he thought this was the best way to get the family into racing. And he kind of lived his, I guess, his racing ambitions through his children. And so I was the lucky pilot. And he was effective team manager. And that's how it all began, really. And then I

obviously fell in love with it. And by the time I was about 14, 14 and 15 years. old, I knew that's, that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I knew I was going to have some jobs, you know, whether I was a racing driver or not, I was going to be involved in motorsport because by then I was, I was hooked on it. Yeah, I mean, we are, we were fortunate enough to get into the actual racing thing ourselves, but we understand entirely that, you know, it hooked you in, the passion that you build with it. And what a cool way to get into, into racing, knowing that your own father created some liveries for some great race cars. That's really, really awesome.

Obviously, you mentioned there that you then got into the casting scene, and you had a really successful casting career, and a junior career. At the time, who were you kind of racing against? Who were your biggest rivals on the track? Who did you think, I'm going up against this big name, they're going to make it, and I'm going with them? Was there anyone that you ran with that you thought, that's the person that I need to be week in week out?

Oh, absolutely, yeah. It was some really cool names in there. Jensen Button, Dan Weldon, Justin Wilson they were just some of the names that I was racing against every other weekend up and down the country and yeah it was I think I remember my dad actually had a

wasn't an argument but it's a bit of a a bit of a confrontation with Marcus Pye at the time he was working at I think it was either motorsport magazine or autosport and he said to him I tell him Marcus one of these kids is going to make it

a world champion that's how good they are and Marcus then ran and said huh some kind of soofe sayer are you so always nice to have a lot

and I think he actually they got in touch you know way down the line and he I think he might have even wrote written an article about it

so yeah it's just that was just not and we knew at the time we were racing some seriously stiff competition and that I was good as well. And yeah, you know, between us, really, the three of us really is Dan, myself and Jensen. We were, we were always at the front. And it's just really nice to to see that we all went on. And, you know, Dan, God rest his soul, he's double Indy 500 champion, me, World Endurance Champion. and Jensen World Formula One champion.

So it really goes to show the caliber that we all grew up racing against. And I really think that's what just from such a young age. I mean, we were eight, nine-year-old kids battling hard and pushing ourselves on so much that I really think it's those roots, the foundation that we had made us really what we were. Yeah, I mean, as classmates, so to speak, go. You know, you couldn't really ask for much more of a higher calibre to have. Obviously, you completely held your own throughout your entire career. So it must be quite complimentary to sit there and think that, you know,

you went up against the best, and you more than comfortably proved yourself, which is amazing. Moving on slightly forward into kind of your British, you have three dates. You came up, you know, to a lovely young man, you know, as to Kimisato, who, of course, you know rather, rather well. What was Sato like as a teammate? And you finish that you really, really strongly. Do you think by the time you kind of got yourself fully into the class and you put through the season,

you had a proper edge on the rest of the field by the end of the season? Well, it was that kind of thing, you know, racing TACU or even making that decision after my strong Formula Ford season ending on a high open in the Formula Ford Festival, which still has pride of place somewhere you can't quite see on this shot. But one of the only trophies I have actually, on the show in the office where I am, and it's at the former Ford Festival trophy is right there in amongst them.

So after that season, you have to pin yourself against the best out there, the best in the business. And I think going back to that trio that I grew up racing against, I think it just put you in that mentality of, I need to be racing the best. and it's the best way to be honest with yourself. You're not kidding anyone then.

If you can get into, you know, have your teammate as the best driver you can choose on the grid. And if you can't beat them, then you're not good enough. That was always my mentality. And yeah, you know, I was in my first season. Taku was in his second season

or second and a half season thing by that point at Carlin. And, you know, he knew the ropes and he was super quick, had the backing of Honda. and all of that. So he was really going places. And yeah, I came in. It was first car I'd ever driven with downfall, so it's so much to learn.

And I think by at least halfway through the season to the end, I was definitely holding my own and outqualified him on that ratio through the season. But it all came kind of in the latter half of the year, won the Poe Street Grand Prix. So, yeah, you know, it was really going from strength to strength, in that season in former three in 2001.

And Carlin were, they were in their infancy as well. I mean, we look at them now and they're such an established team. Huge success. Yeah, and that was really the birth of their, Taku was really the birth of their dominance in the junior categories. So yeah, to have him as a teammate to bounce off of him to learn from was an incredible experience. And I could tell that he was,

He had such support from Honda and they were doing big things in Formula One. I knew I could sense where he was going, where it was going to end up for him. And yes, he's still, I've retired and he's still going strong out in America. Yeah, it's amazing to see he's continued success. And again, like the previous lovely chaps that we spoke about, the fact that you pitched yourself up against one of the best in the business and held your own so well. It must be so dignified.

and fulfilling to know that when you look back on your early career there, you went against some of the biggest names in racing that we see now and you think, bloody hell, I did all right against each catch. I really proved myself. I know I will feel very much fulfilled, but I have to sit and do a podcast

for these two Muppets week and week out instead. Yeah, that's how I feel. I really feel like looking back to it now, I do feel like, yeah, you know, I didn't shy away from the competition and I could very much hold my own and really didn't make it easy for myself. So yes, I was in, as it turned out with Carl in,

it was the best car, but I had the best teammate as well. So there was no hiding. You were very much in the spotlight all the time. You're right at the front. And on days where you could put it all together and qualify pole position and go ahead and win the race, you know, you knew you were beating the best driver in the field as well.

well, not just that you were in the best car. So, yeah, he was magic. And, you know, that particular season, I think he beat the record of most wins ever in Formula 3 in a season, beating Jan Magnuson's record. So, you know, it was, he was, he was something to see. And people that judge him by what he did in Formula 1 or whatever he's doing in an American now is it's almost like he's not the same driver. He really was, he was like the Hamilton.

Formula One, but in Formula 3, he was just, he was so, so hard to be. That car just suited his style so much, getting a lot out of a little in all those high speed corners, you know, where he could carry momentum. He was left foot braking and balancing the throttle with the left foot brakes. And I was still right foot braking from my Formula forward age, which in a way taught me bad habits of the heel and toe and driving like a classic way. That's not how a Formula 3 car wanted to be driven. so I was kind of really having to

which seems bizarre coming from carting I did it for 12 years in my life and then that one season of Formula Ford just you know I learned this whole new way of driving a racing car which did not put me in good stead for for driving a Formula 3 car so Taku had all of these techniques that just

this whole style suited that it suited the team and it suited that car and yeah he was a really formidable more force. Wow. Well, overcome it you did. I think Ben is going to take you forward through to a little bit more recent in your career.

Benjamin? Only slightly, yeah, moving ahead a couple of years to your F1 debut. You've got the chance to make your debut at Menardi. Do you mind just going through how that came about? And is it true that someone you've already mentioned, Justin Wilson, being too tall for the car, was actually the reason you managed to get that opportunity in the first place? you laugh actually it was yeah he was um he was due to to take the seat after Alex Jung I think they felt to qualify in two grand prix in a row I still don't know to

this day the the ins and outs of it as to why um I suddenly had that opportunity I sure you were the placing was going to have the opportunity um I the only thing I can imagine is that Alex Jung uh had some kind of there was some kind of clause in his contract or something where it must have said, you know, if you haven't made two Grand Prix in a row from being outside the 107% rule, then it opens up some clause. That's the only thing I can imagine because he carried on and did the rest of the season. So it's not like the funding wasn't there or whatever. So yeah, like I said, never really had that cleared up. But yeah, so it was due to be Justin's, Justin Wilson's turn and to take over. And he went to

Fiorano to Minardi factory to do a seat fit and they tried and tried and tried and he just didn't fit the car so it was quite a small car and he unfortunately he couldn't fit it so I think in desperation they went for the smallest driver

they could find I know a guy yeah and I got the phone call so yeah of course I fitted it and they got those two grown free, which, you know, me and my management, we had to pay for the luxury of driving the slowest go on the grid. I think it was in the region of 250,000 pound for two races. Wow. And yeah, so it's, I remember jumping in it. I mean, now when I look back for the

experience I have, you know, knowing what I went through, it's, I really did jump into the deep end. I'd only done a handful of tests at BAR by then. in 2002 and I was turning up mid-season at Budapest in a car I'd never driven or tested

on tyres that I've never driven I've gone from bridgestones and Michelin. They were so different and to top it all up the car was developed around bridgestones so the steering, the power steering was saturating because of the

bigger, fatter, Michelin tyres were putting more forces through the power steering system. And every time you were breaking and turning and loading up the front tires, it was saturating the power steering. It had no more to give. So not only were you then fighting the tire force, you were fighting the system, the hydraulics in the system. And basically, I wasn't strong enough to drive it.

I just, I didn't know what I was getting myself in for. The BAR that I'd done a lot of laps in in testing, I could do long runs. I could do race distances in that thing. The power steering was fine, and I never had any issues. But this thing was a real different bag. And I remember on the out lap, even just thinking,

holy moly, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do this. But you had committed. So, you know, you had to carry on. But, yeah, looking back at it now, you just think, wow, yeah, that is properly jumping in the deep end. And I mean, no disrespect. to Menardy in 2002, but even if you were in a position where you were incredibly used to that car, that that car wasn't exactly fighting for points very often. So it's going to have to feel

struggle, right? It's funny. I don't, for whatever reason, I dug out the timing sheets the other day. I came across them. I had some paperwork hanging around. And I saw that was about four and a half tenths off of Weber in qualifying, which now you think, yeah, that's It was a good cause. Right, and round Budapest. That's like, yeah, that's not bad. Just jumping straight in. Obviously, made it through to the race.

I was well within 107%. That was the first class. And so, yeah, got over that hurdle. But yeah, also on top of it, again, my inexperience showing at the time, there was a fuel pickup problem. And so they said, oh, yeah, really sorry. They told me before qualifying, yeah, really sorry.

We're going to have to put 10 kilos more into the car of fuel because we've got this annoying fuel pickup problem. And I remember thinking, yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's not much. And now you look back, you go, at a minute, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yeah, so that's, yeah, I'm pretty proud of what I did back then,

at least in the qualifying. And then I just, in the races, I couldn't say at the time, but I just ran out of arm strength. I tried just to finish, especially spa. I just tried to finish the race. and it's I just drove basically until my arms are just on fire and uh you come to all those high speed corners and you just your arms are locked out and you yeah this I just couldn't do any more and then one moment of like snappiness from the car and you haven't got the arm's set to

catch it and you look like a you know like a right billy just spinning off into the gravel by yourself but I was just completely out of strength and I couldn't say it at the time because you were aspiring to go on to bigger things in Formula One and you didn't want any of the team bosses doubting this driver because of their fitness or whatever. So, you know,

all these things you have to consider it's easy to it's easy to be completely oblivious to that as a fan watching on, but all these things are going through your head at all times as a driver in this sport. And it's a very macho sport as well,

racing and particularly Formula One always has been it's starting to change a bit but it's been behind the times in a lot of aspects in my opinion and it's slowly starting to change

but back then my goodness you couldn't you couldn't have come out with a comment like that you couldn't have come out with a comment about mental health issues you know many things that would have just been laughed at in your face back then in Formula One

and it's like I say slowly changing, but it's, they're still, in my opinion, there's still a long way to go. I think that's fair enough. I agree with you on that. In terms of you already mentioned doing testing work and obviously you were doing a lot of Friday practices around that time for the BAR. From your said, were there any mental struggles with being in that role where you were doing clearly a lot of valuable work for a team, but for someone else to take the glory later in the weekend. Did you find that difficult to deal with or you're just so focused on doing a good job for the team? It's a really good question. Yeah. And now I obviously have the answers to it.

Back then, I wasn't, I don't think I was that, I wasn't that aware of what I was thinking in terms of that selfishness you need to be and want to be in the car every weekend racing. Of course I wanted to race. But there was something else going on. I think something else with the F1 world where there's this constant evolution of the car and it's so I just found it so fascinating being a test driver and I actually after it must have been a year or two of solidly doing that work I went into I went into it thinking my plan was me and my management we didn't have enough money to carry on we did one season four four one season former three it was like it was win or spin you had to make it work if you were going to earn a

career out of driving. And to the goal was just blinkered on Formula One. And, you know, we made it work. I became a test driver. And that then became my opening to highlight the job I could do in testing and with a bid one day to try and get onto the grid

and for the team to go, oh, he's really good. You know, Allah Damon Hill or David Kortar as a test driver, you can step up to the big time in that same team to be kind of promoted with in. And that was the first, that was the kind of the mission, really, I guess.

But the longer it went on, I think the team didn't want to let me go as a test driver because pat myself on the back, I think I was pretty good at it. And secondly, you know, being as analytical as I am, I just, it fascinated me and I just, I kind of fell in love with it. I fell in love with the testing aspect of Formula One. I fell in love with the making the car better, tweaking it, helping the engineering team,

perfect it, design new parts, testing those new parts, being critical of the new parts when they came along and wanting more and more. And in a way, it still carries on in my simulator role today at Mercedes.

And I think I just fell into the role too well and arguably loved that side a bit too much. so in a way by doing that more and more I lost the real hunger and passion and desire to or the desperation to be racing and I did have opportunities come along but they never really materialized like a got as far as doing a seat fit at Williams at one stage but then a new contract testing contract was offered to me at BAR even more money and they were desperate to keep me and you didn't know whether in this driver shootout of Williams, whether it was going to work out or not, but then actually BAR put their foot down and said, no, we want you here, we want you to remain. And a bit of me thought, oh yeah, I'm kind of happy with that. And I,

I think that's that proved that I don't know when it happened, but I definitely fell into that role too much. But in saying that, I think it takes a special kind of character to develop a car for somebody else. And it's that kind of character that then made me such a good sports car driver sharing the car with two other people. Because that's an environment where you need to just put your ego aside, be completely selfless. And particularly if you're driving with a, say, an amateur driver that's paying for the whole thing, there's no place for an ego. And you can look to many Formula One drivers on the grid today

and go, you'd be a good sports car driver, you'd be a terrible sports car driver, you'd be a good driver. It's a different mentality that you need. And I think my mentality was always, yeah, it was always more of a team player. That's cool. Very long answer to your question.

It's a good answer. Yeah, I felt like you'd be a good answer. answer it properly because I've moulded it over a lot over the years but not necessarily at the time. So obviously you've you had two races in 2002. Then three and four you were obviously testing for BAR but you get the chance in 05 to do a race in place of your ex-teamate to Taku and then your engine goes, is it two laps I think into the race? Yeah. What were you thinking slash reeling at that point? I just couldn't believe it. Again, it was kind of being thrown in the deep in it.

I flew out. I was getting a bit cocky by that time as a test driver. What was it? It's 2005, yeah. So I'd had my good season in 2004, driving on the Fridays, made a bit of a name for myself, trading fastest times with the likes of Michael Schumacher. So it was brilliant that 2004 reason.

And the car was good as well. So I was at the front and I was in the spotlight. And yeah, I was really, I was really enjoying my time around that time. But yeah, the 2005 came on. I was getting a bit cocky. Flying out to the race is really late as a reserve driver, which I didn't particularly like that part.

I didn't like hanging around. I didn't, it's funny. You see some drivers, they like the thought of being a racing driver. They like hanging around in the race two and the glasses. I was never really like that. I didn't like all the, I didn't like that exposure. I didn't like that side of it. But yeah, you know, had a job to do.

And if you were to be called up as a reserve driver one day, you knew the car inside and out. And we were doing so many miles by that point a year. I think somewhere around the region of 10,000 miles a year of testing, it was a lot. So it wasn't phased by that point about jumping in the car. And but it was Malaysia, you know, it's hot, it's humid. There's an eight-hour time difference.

or seven hour time, different to whatever. And I flew out on the Thursday with Nick Frye, which management can do, but not really the test driver. So I got out there Thursday night, and I was called up on the Saturday to drive.

I remember waking up Saturday morning, thinking, oh, I got jet lag from hell, but it's all right. I just have to swan around the paddock called out. I'll survive. I think I've got about two hours sleep. And then Ron Meadows, who's still at the team of Brackley today.

He phoned me up, say, oh, and yeah, a bit of an issue. Just so that you know, you're racing this weekend and we need you at the chat as soon as possible. And I thought, my heart skipped to beat at all. No, no, of all the times, no way.

And yeah, I'm getting in the car, just still half asleep. And I had one practice session on a flat-spotted set of tyres that Taku had spun on because he was feeling ill. And he had lost control with the car. and it was the only set of tyres left.

And you had to, back in those days, you had to take whatever equipment the race driver had been using. And it was also before the knockout system in qualifying. So it was a one lap shootout. And whoever was just thrown in, like the reserve driver was, you had to go out.

You were the first one out. So on the Saturday, you had one practice, like FP3, and then you were straight into qualifying. and typically in Malaysia has just been hooning it down with rain, washed the track green, and so it's the first car out there, so there was a bit of a disaster that qualifying. But the Sunday, they do the second quality.

So again, the one-lap shootouts will go out first, and on that day, I only qualified four tenths away from Jensen, which I was pretty happy about, and he's strong around that track. and we get into the race and I'm 15th or whatever and he's 9th or 10th I can see him down the road and I start

I'm getting into it I'm battling the salvers and stuff and it all felt quite good I said yeah look after the tyres and got good feel for that from all the long runs I've done in testing and and that's the car really starts sliding around

and I see others sliding around with me as well but I'm thinking I'm sure I'm sure I'm struggling more than them and then I hear that Jensen's pulled up off the track and I pass him as I get the message and there Jensen's out his engine failure and go oh

that's what we're all sliding around for we're on his oil so I thought that's shame for him right that crack on with my race and but the slippery I've passed the car now but the sliding continues I'm like

no it's just this is weird it's taken way too long for the for the rear to reattached the grit and why is it only on the rear it's really weird what's happened to my tyres and then a couple of corners later my engine I was sliding around on my own oil

before the engine went so I'll never forget that so gutting so gutting but it's just you know that's Formula 1 and that's that's racing but something I think good did come out of it because at the end of the race

one of the really high up bosses of Honda turned to me and they were gutted. They don't take failure well. And he said, oh, Anthony, I'm so sorry for today. I know this was your big chance. But you look me in the eye and I said, but I promise you, we will repay you for this. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

You're not taught funny. That sounds pretty good. And I think when the whole Super-Guri thing came up, I've got a feeling that it was about that because, you know, I wasn't paying for that drive. I was there on merit. And as soon as that opening came about at Super-Gurie and obviously a bit of a B-team of Honda,

I'm pretty sure that's what it was all about. So, yeah, you know, it goes a long way to show that and the way that the Japanese culture is based on trust and respect and honour and I think my loyalty to Honda and the fact I didn't kick off after that that particular episode I think yeah you know that that's how I learned a lot about the Japanese culture

in my time with both Honda and then Toyota but I'm pretty sure that's that he meant every word he said and I think that's that's why my super guru drive materialised but you can tell you work in TV now, because you led me beautifully onto my next question, which is about Super Gary. So obviously, a couple of years later, you get the full-time seat in 2007. Was there some early optimism that year? Because, and I correct me from wrong, I think you

had the previous year's Honda, which was quite a good car or a version of it. So there are a couple of performances. So Canada, 2007, both you and Taku, well, you both were having a base but I think you got taken down by a groundhog. But there's another, I think Turkey that year as well, you had a really great qualifying. So, yeah, was, you know, were you thinking, oh, you know, this could become something good, or were you just sort of taking it as it comes? I really took it out as it was coming that, that season. I really didn't know what to expect.

I knew we would be running the car from the year previous with Honda. and I'd seen the likes of Jensen win a race in it in 2006 in Budapest and I knew what the car could do. I'd get very familiar with it, of course, from the testing, but also aware of the rapid progress that's made in Formula One from one year to the next and I knew that we had a car that we were basically just getting given and there was going to be with a lack of finance, the lack of budget that the team had, they did the best they could in terms of upgrades, but it was, you know, they were few and far between.

So, yeah, it's funny, we started that season. Me, you know, effectively, I was a rookie. I had a million testing miles under my belt, but I hadn't raced anything for six years. So I was, I was, in a way, a proper rookie coming into it. And I wasn't race ready. I wasn't race sharp. I was definitely rusty. But I had to speed.

And so the qualifying was good. And we qualified 10th and 11th straight out of the bag in Australia. And I thought, yeah, this is a sign of good things to come, I'm sure. But in a way, we had peaked already. And then as the season went on, other teams developed. And it's funny, even having done all the testing miles ahead and development work in Formula One, you're never quite sure how much you've progressed your car through the season. You never know.

It's hard to put an actual number on it because, like of lap time, because you never really go back to the same circuits as the season carries on. And if you do, the temperature is completely different, the tracks in a different state. So it's so hard in real world numbers to put a lap time. on it on all those upgrades that comes to the car. We often hear, oh yeah, we bring it two tenths this weekend.

I was going to be five tenths this weekend. And you get to the end of it and you think, was it really a second and a half that somebody out playing the car from you see? But because you're all chasing each other as the season goes on, it's hard to know exactly what the progression rate is

until that season in 2007 because our car really made no progress at all, especially from halfway through the year to the end. And we watched the competition we were racing, say like, I think it was the spikers that were with, they were at the back of the start season. We were very much midfield. And by the end of the year,

the spikers were out qualifying us. You know, like quite comfortably sometimes. And that was a, that really opened my eyes as to the rapid progression that's made in Formula One by all the teams through the season. So, yeah, we basically just got left behind. And I was at my best as a driver at the end of the year when the car was at its worst.

And that was the unfortunate thing. But yes, thanks for reminding me about Canada. Really score points in Formula One. I was running in third place when it happened. I was yet to do a pit stop. and I think as it all unfolded, we were on for about a P5 or P6 finish because I was on a one-stop. So, you know, with the strategy tools, you can go back and have a look at where you fell in. And, yeah, my race, I was battling Ralph Schumack of the whole race.

And we were really similar speed. He was on a one-stop as well. And I think he finished well in the points. So, yeah, you know, I would have finished points that day. but unfortunately, yeah, the ground hole came out worse out of it than I did. Yeah, there's a nice one, Harry. Yeah, there's a great clip. Sorry, sorry to remind you about that.

There's a great clip. I don't know where it's on YouTube or Twitter or something of your mechanics all sat in the garage. And then you've just pulled up in the box and you're like, what's going on? Yeah, my son likes to remind me of that. He's now on YouTube age. So he's, you're found, oh, look, Daddy, you're on like, most embarrassing pit stocks video

for the way. Yes, thanks done, thanks. Yeah, as if it wasn't tired enough that day.

Obviously, you've already mentioned Mercedes and you've been with Mercedes as a sim driver now, I think it's

2010, but obviously you've been associated with that team from Brackley for like 20 years now. What is it

about that team that sort of kept you involved for so long? Honestly, I don't know. I think, yeah, I think that, like I say, I fell into the test driver role really well when the team was young. And I've watched many team bosses come and go.

Yeah, it's so yeah, who have I seen? I've seen Craig Pollock. I've seen David Richards, Nick Frye, Ross Braun. Yeah, Toto, I'm sure I've missed one or two. But yeah, I've seen so many changes at the team. And if I hadn't been there this whole time and I'd walk through the barrier today, based on how the team was back in the early 2000s, you barely recognize the place.

You really barely recognize the place. It's so vast now. So many new buildings and car parks. And just the way the whole team operates as well is so, so different. It's much more fluid. But there are still some familiar faces around, you know, Andrew Shublin, Ron Meadows, who I mentioned before. And up until very recently, James Vowles.

And I think he started the team in the early 2000, around 2002. So very similar timing to me. And yeah, you make friends there. and it's always felt like a bit of a second family, the team in Brackley. And it's been fun for my job to have evolved as well over the years and to be involved in lots of different aspects of the team. But I'm really enjoying the simulator driving

that I have done for so many years. And I remember having that first conversation with the bosses at Honda saying we should get a simulator you know that don't you should get a driver simulator because McLaren have got one and I reckon it's a good tool to have and I started my Formula One career when these things weren't

around which seems unthinkable today the fact that you wouldn't have a driver in loop simulator and not miss it at all and now it's an essential part of the development

and constant evolution of the setup of the car when the car was at the track. So, you know, today this modern world we're in, it's all about simulations. And so yeah, it very much has its place. But back then it was this new thing. And yeah, so I've seen so much change there. And I have to say, unlike a lot of things in life,

mostly for the better. A lot of change mostly for the better. So I think that's Tesla. to how Formula One works. They've won a few times since then, so definitely for the better. Yeah, quite good at the LGF1, I'll say it. So 2008 rolls around, and the Formula One racing career, as we know it, starts to come to its end.

But then you obviously, in my opinion, coming to what I think is your golden age of racing, and that is the World Endurance Championship. You're going to WEC. And, you know, you have great success in 2014. You pick up 13 wings to your name as well. are there any in this period of your career that you think that's the one that's the one that for me is that defying in kind of race wing of my career that's one the stand up to be the most maybe the first one what was it about weck for you that was kind of so incredible that fits so well with you I think I touched on it earlier on by the fact that you know what made me such a good test driver in former one was what made me such a good race driver in Weck because it is a different attribute that you need as a driver in in sports cars, you know, it's in many ways,

there's a much friendlier paddock because of that. There's a lot more team spirit involved between the driver crews. And that's not just the immediate car crew, but it's the sister car as well. There's a lot more camaraderie between the teammates. You know, you get most of the time, it's still a male-dominated sport, unfortunately.

Most of the time you've got six lads together. You go and you're traveling the world, together. It's a really good love and you get up to mischief and it's fun and yeah, it's all harmless, but it's just not the same as two Formula One drivers in the same team arriving at the track separately. They've got their own entourage around them, their own physios and their own agenda and it is so different to that. You know, we car share and race each other back to the hotel and all kinds of stupid stuff that you can imagine that we'd get up to. So it, you know, it's, it's very fun. And I'd have to say that, yeah, definitely the most fun I had

in my racing career as a drive was, was in WEC and not Formula One. The Formula One car was, it was the pinnacle, you know, it's the lightest, the fastest car with the most downforce. and it was the most precise tool to drive. It was amazing, the technology involved and that evolution I touched on before. Brilliant. But in terms of just the fun aspect, everything else that fits around racing,

the web was just, it really brought out the best in me. And like I said before, I didn't, I always liked to operate kind of quietly and not be, ironically, not be in front of the camera all the time. You know, I like to keep myself to myself and, you know, when it came to the media

and I found the Formula One environment quite intimidating as a driver. It is intimidating, and you need to be a very inwardly confident person and you need to be able to brush off things. You know, a lack of performance, from your side or whatever it may be a bit of bad luck here or there. You need to be able to pick yourself back up, believe you're the best in the world,

crack on, don't care what anybody says, really thick-skinned. And that wasn't really me. I'm too self-analytical, too hard of myself. And, you know, that world didn't really, yeah, you need to be a different character to survive it. And I remember Nick Frye saying to me, yeah, problem is, Anne, you're too nice. when I was in Formula One. When I was knocking on the door, trying to get in, trying to get in,

what I thought was being pushy, but apparently that's not being pushy at all. And that, yeah, you know, I think he was right. And I think when I found, when I discovered the world of sports cars, it was something that I was so blinked to get to Formula One that I had never given it a second thought. And actually, if I could tell myself, people often say, what would you say to your younger self? Well, I would say you should have done more racing in sports cars

when you were a test driver in Formula One. That would be my advice to any young driver watching this, listening to this now. You know, get out there and race. An engineer one said to me, a racing driver that needs to be holding the steering wheel. And he was absolutely right, absolutely right. I wish I'd had that advice earlier on in my career because I feel like those, what was it, six years or five years I had in sports cars, I really can't remember. either way it wasn't long enough it definitely wasn't long enough and I kind of I dabbled in one or two races I did a in 2003 I did a I did a Lomon in a pro drive Ferrari the 550 but I didn't I didn't come back

I didn't pursue it I didn't I didn't want really to be doing that all the time my focus was formula one and that yeah I shouldn't that I really I really people are Do you have any regrets? Yes, I regret that. I really regret not racing more in sports cars. Well, as much as you didn't get the maybe the earlier kickstart that you now wish you wanted in sports cars, you did in 2014 pick up the title, right? The LMP won title, you took it home. That must have been a really big moment for you. How did that feel, you know, winning that? Yeah, I mean, obviously it goes about saying that was the highlight of my career in terms of achievements to remind yourself that you are a world champion in something and anything.

It's incredible. It's an incredible achievement. Now being a father of two and watching my kids grow up and wonder what they can aspire to be one day. It's quite remarkable to think that, yeah, wow, what if one of my kids were to be? grow up and become a world champion in anything they turn their hand to. It is such an achievement. So, yeah, I'm proud of it. And I'll never forget the emotions. When I tap into it, I'll never forget the emotions that went through that year. And it, well, it's not just that year. It's the tip of the iceberg. It's that peak. People only see you hold that trophy aloft and the big smiles and you make the

you make the headlines for that one moment, but it's the backstory of it all that only you as the athlete lives through and you think back of all the ups and downs you had, mostly the downs, all the defeats and the times you had to pick yourself back up, all of the doubts that you had in yourself, you know, and that uphill,

it seems like that constant uphill battle and makes me respect every athlete out there. no matter what they do, anyone that's been a world champion or even, even, you know, a national champion, the dedication and the commitment and the blood, sweat and tears that goes into that achievement is most people can't relate to. So, yeah, it certainly is the highlight of my career. And it's the season when it just all, almost all came together because we didn't win the last. Lamont that year, which still eludes me and always will. I was, but you've, again, you've done it again.

You've led me on to my next question. It was, obviously, you had the tester of Lamong in the Ferrari earlier in your career, and then you didn't win the Hmong again in that 2014 season. Is that your bucket list victory, or is there something completely off piece, random, you know, an Indy 500 drive or something like that, that was your bucket list? Now you'll sit here thinking about your career that you would go and do again to really kind of, I want to do it. that's the one thing I want.

I think I've tortured myself enough for that. Lovely race. Yeah, it's, oh, I've finished, yeah, I've had a second, a third, and a fourth at that race outright. And I visited the hospital twice out for 13 times. So I've done it. And I should have known, shouldn't I, back in 2003, and I ended in the barriers of the broken car and broken ribs and ended up in the hospital.

I should have taken the bloody hint, shouldn't I, back then. This waste doesn't like you. That's the mirror of Lebon. You're right. You're going to be. Yeah, it's for those of you that don't know, the cruel tricks that track has played on me. Of course, you only have to look at the team. years that were cried in 2016.

Yes, I was that Toyota that didn't win on the last lap after leading by, yeah, a minute and a half after 23 hours and 57 minutes. Yeah, I didn't win, but I got close.

And yeah, that's another one. So I've talked about the up and this is the down of racing and oh my goodness, that race, that race, that that year, that, yeah. I'm much better behind the microphone now at LeMond.

It can't hurt me anymore. Now you've said it. I don't know what's in store for this year. And I can say what I want about it when I'm there. Yeah, I don't care. Exactly. I don't care. Yeah, it's a funny one.

It's definitely a fickle race. And like only 24-hour race is, really. but somehow, for some reason, it never liked me. And the feeling is quite mutual. Something at least. I mean, you mentioned sort of commentary and I just want to take you back to, at least in terms of the F1 world,

your first commentary, the 06 Hungarian GP. And for anyone this thing who isn't aware of the race, Jensen Button takes his first career win after about six seasons in F1. What was it like sitting alongside James Allen going absolutely crazy as Button crossed the line in that? It was amazing. Obviously, you know, last couple of laps, you could see it come in

and it was just come on, Gin's, nurse it at home, nurse it at home, you got this. And so, yeah, it was brewing, definitely. But yeah, you know, we both pretty much erupted in the commentary box because it was such a moment of Gin's something, you know, been through, again, you know, talk of picking yourself up time and time again. Jensen had his fair share of it as well in his early years, Formula One, and drove, consistently drove a car that was kind of teetering on the edge of points, but not really always there to challenge for a race win, a podium let alone a race win. and that day it just all came together. He was sublime in those mixed conditions as he always was

and the team played the strategy perfectly. It all just clicked. It all came together. Had a bit of luck as well, you know, with Alonso and the dodgy pit stop with the wheel falling off because it looked like he was destined to win the race. But look, you've got to be there at the end that it's a team game

and that's exactly what he did that day. and to have been there driving on the Friday and then to feel very much involved as a reserve driver and test driver that weekend. Still think it's brilliant. It's one of the best things ever in Formula One was, I have to say that, I don't know, but I really, now as a commentator, wasn't it brilliant, watching the young drivers out there on a Friday in the third car? I mean, wow, so cool with both teammates out there to pin yourself against and to mirror lap times and to look at their data afterwards. It was so cool. But yeah, different times.

And to feel like you're involved the whole way through the weekend and then watched that that crescendo was really epic. So yeah, he was my mate from eight years old. So, you know, we, like I mentioned at the start, we were there from the beginning. Same schooling all the way through our karting career and into motorsport proper. And you see him win his first race. It was really quite emotional. Yeah, I like to think that at the moment was even more special because of, like you say, it wasn't really on the cards based on where that car was in that season.

as already referenced 2004, like all he needed a couple of times that year was a double Ferrari retirement and he might well have got it a couple years prior, but he turns out at a random race in Hungary and not really fancied whatsoever and then chaos and sees and that moment happens. So very, very formula one. We did ask our listeners a few questions and Harry's going to ask a few in a moment. But one person just responded in capital letters,

ask him about the skypad, which in itself is a bit vague, so possibly a bit more of a targeted question on this. When you've got drivers alongside you discussing their laps, how easy or difficult is it to get them to open up, potentially own mistakes if they're analysing their own laps, and are there any particular drivers that you think give particularly great insights? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, asking about Skype,

I had, most people, the most common question I get asked, is that thing real? Yeah, it is real. It breaks down often enough to, you know, there's no way they'd put that out there on air if they knew it was going to break. So, no, it is real. It works by capacitive. And actually, no, it used to work by capacitive touchscreen, a bit like your mobile phone would. But these days it works via infrared beams around the side of the screen, which is, it works, it's more suited for outdoor use.

But obviously, the sunlight can, if it comes in an angle and hits the screen at an angle, if it's like the setting sun or whatever, it can really play havoc with the infrared beams and do what we call as ghost touches. So that's a real pain when it happens. So it could be a cloudy day and then suddenly the sun comes out behind a clap and it screams all over the place. So yeah, we have lots of technical problems with it.

So yes, it is very much real. To answer your question about which driver I feel kind of gets the most out of it and who I get the most out of? I think it all depends on how the driver's just done, I guess, in their session. And these are things that it's not very often a spur of the moment, quick decision by the driver or the team. Because remember, there are barriers in place with the F1 teams and the drivers. You can't just grab them by the collar and drag them to the skypad.

You can't go through the right protocol. and you have to go through the team's press department to Sky will go through the press department. It's not me doing it. And to arrange a time and place, well, they know the place, but the time when the driver will come to join you. And that's put into their PR schedule as the driver, because they're flat out busy the whole way through the weekend, as you'd imagine. And imagine they've just crashed the car.

or they've had a rubbish session and they've off the pace and they haven't driven very well and then they come and join with the sky pad that that's hard. You can tell that they don't want to be there. I don't really want them there either because I know I'm not going to get much out of them.

And unfortunately, it's, you know, you just have to crack on. But on the flip side, if they've just had a brilliant qualifying session and they're real open driver, say, someone like Charles Claire, for example, very honest with his own performances, shows his emotion when he's done well, and he's got a good eye for detail. And he's young and he gets the technology.

He's a really good guy to have there by your side to explain his lap. And he's not shy of talking about his own mistake. So I know with him I can kind of say, oh, yeah, here, you know, what happened there with the rear getting out of shape? you know, give them benefit of the doubt. You say, like, was that a gust of wind or, you know, it's windy today? And more often than I, he would just say, no, no, that was me. And it happened because I pushed too hard and this, this or that.

The one I really love getting on there as well is Lewis, because we don't see him often. You can imagine his schedule is so busy. Sure. But when we do get him, again, you know, me and him, we go way back. and grew up on the same car tracks. And it just, I don't know, just with him, again, he's got such a good eye for the detail. And he always comes out with something fascinating. He kind of thinks outside the box as well.

So when we can get hold of him, he's great. I've actually seen he's very much, he's very much his own man. so he's one of a few drivers on the grid that can actually say to his team no I actually fancy doing the Skype pad today and I've seen him actually say well say like the press person from the team has said no no no sorry Lewis is too busy

he can't do the Skype and he'll say no no no I want to do it and he walks over and the whole team's been like thrown into a frenzy because he suddenly changed his mind and that's quite cool so he's one of the only drivers on the grid that really would ever dare do something like that. And lots of them are, they understand it, they understand the exposure it gets. They like the technology and quite often, particularly after qualifying, they haven't seen anybody else's lap side by side or even their own lap played back.

So it's quite nice for them to see their lap. So they're genuinely intrigued. And that sometimes comes across. So the one thing I haven't done yet, I haven't quite been brave enough to do it, is to get a driver to look at a side-by-side of a competitor against them. And I know they would be very careful what they would say about their competition

and maybe they wouldn't feel comfortable in kind of you know, looking at their competition and mirroring their own performance against it. I haven't quite, I want to do it, but haven't been brave enough to really put that request in and ask anyone. I know I wouldn't have really wanted to do it as a driver back in those days. So I think that's what puts me off. But I know that the fans would love to see that, and I would love to see it as well. So, yeah, watch your space.

Maybe one day it will work. Yeah, maybe when they, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, both right. Who the pair is. Maybe if a championship is really come to a close and there's maybe nothing necessarily to lose, maybe you could be a bit cheeky and put out the question then. And for the next couple of questions,

we're going to look forward, actually. Lewis and Max to do it in Abu Dhabi last year before the rates are sold for everything. It would all be fun. Antigiegson is the peacemaker of Formula One. Clearly, that's where we're going with this. So for the 2020, 23 season now. The top

three teams, as we know them, have kind of got their own storylines a little bit. Obviously, as you know the insight with Mercedes, we've got the really interesting take on the side pods, or lack of them, and Fred Vassir is taking over at Ferrari, and Red Bull are going to start seeing the punishment cycle, the budget cap being broken. How do you think the top of the championship might look

in comparison to what we saw last season, of course, with Verstappen having a very large victory by the end of the season? Yeah, look, it's the question. everybody's asking how much will that the penalty hinder red ball if any honestly i'm not convinced it well it sounds like a big number doesn't it um that 25% lack of wind tunnel time but something tells me that they've got their car in a good window and we've got another shift of regulation this year with the out with the leading edge of the floor getting raised by 15 millimeters 15 millimeters is huge It's not an insignificant regulation change, this.

It's not a small one at all. So that's going to have its knock on effects, and it's going to possibly reward teams like Red Bull, who naturally run their car a little bit higher, and I used to running a bit more rake in their car. So I don't know. I mean, yes, it's going to take away quite a bit of downforce from all of the teams,

you lose that valuable suction of the floor now that we have, the ground effects that we're in. It's a bit like, as I often say, it's like picking up your vacuum cleaner and hovering it above the ground by about a centimeter, if you could be that precise. It's not really going to do the same job as it was when you slam it right on the ground where it's built to be. You know, you lose that suction and that's what the cars are going to suffer this year by the floor. it's coming up, losing that pod of vacuumed air underneath. So like the old cars, it's funny how history is repeating itself in many ways. They went to ground effects. They realised the ground effects were strong.

They built skirts to create that extra vacuum, that suction that it needed. The cars became a bit unstable. They removed the skirts or then heightened the skirts. They lost a load of grip. It's funny how, yeah, it's all going around history of repeating itself. And they'll find a happy place soon, I'm sure, with the regs. But yeah, it's a big one. And I just feel like with Red Bull running their car naturally higher,

I'm not sure they're going to lose from this reg change as much as some other teams might. So we'll see. That's my gut feeling. but yeah, we'll see how it affects them. You know, 25% as well. You know, that's not a small number to be losing out in the wind tunnel. But then Red Bull are wise in how they use their wind tunnel time.

You know, it's not the same method for every team out there the way they use the wind tunnel. You know, there's a lot of, there are a lot of grey areas with how you use your wind tunnel time. You know, their only time, when they press the on switch wind tunnel time. So what else can you do in the background before you press that on switch with your wind tunnel model?

How prepared can you be before you press that go button? And other teams have a different interpretation of that. So Red Bullard definitely, you'd have to say, very clued up when it comes to how to best utilize their time spent in the wind tunnel. So it's not just a clear cut 25%. it's a red ball 25%. Yeah, maybe.

You know what I mean? It's not like. Adrian Nui can see the air really, can't he? It's just they're one of the best teams, if not the best team, and utilizing the tool they have and maximizing their time when they hit that on switch. So, you know, other teams could probably learn quite a lot from what they do. It's such a secretive world. that yeah you know who knows who knows how much they'll really be against other teams how much they'll

really be held back so my gut instinct is not that much I don't think not I don't think much will change I should imagine they're going to hit the ground running they're in such a dominant way at the end of last year I think I think yeah hopefully the other teams can close up slightly, but don't forget, everyone's limited by the cost cap. They are all limited by wind tunnel time. And therefore, there's very little that you can do to the cars compared to years gone by. So we shouldn't be expecting, you know, a remake of the wheel here. This is, these are, these are much smaller changes coming to the cars this year than we would have seen in the past.

You know, so, so frustrating for a lot of the teams. They've got their hands tied. And this was always my concern with the rules, how they are today, in such heavy restrictions to try to bring the tail enders closer to the sharp end and get everyone more of a competitive window. it limits progression and that evolve, that rapid progression that I talked about before, it's less so today because of those restrictions in place. So I think naturally you're going to see less evolution

and therefore less of a shake-up in the pecking order between the teams. There'll be maybe the years gone by. There'll be some fangs that will absolutely love what you're saying, and there'll be some fangs that are absolutely dreading the possibility of that being the case. Four, 2020, go on.

I was just going to say, well, hopefully I'm wrong. You know, hopefully it will be a massive shakeup and we'll see another team at the front and all of the teams. What I want to see is at least three teams

battling it out at the front every time we see the cars on track. That's all I can't be that much to ask for, surely. Just three teams. I'm not greedy. I just, just not asking for six. two, three.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. Final one from me, before we jump into the Discord questions, which are nice, short, snappy ones. What do you look forward to the most, or what I look forward to most of this season? And do you think Vegas is going to be the hit that people think it will be, or is there something else about the season that is kind of more catching your eye?

Oh, good question. Yeah, I mean, well, I've just mentioned it. I want to see a genuine three-team fight for the World Championship. that, I mean, it's been a dream of mine for so many years now in Formula One. And I had high hopes for this, this latest F1 car and reg, you know, regs that they have to play to now. So please, you know, hopefully that will work out. That's what I'm hoping to see, just a bit of a tighter pack and, you know, giving, making more of the emphasis on the drive. on the driver than the car.

That would be a nice wish, something to come to fruition. But yeah, you know, other things, new circuits, like you say, Vegas, I do believe it's going to be, you know, a lot of hype. And that's a good thing. I hope it's going to be very excruciatingly American.

I'm sure when it's down. You know, Miami was a nice. taster and I get to go there for the first time with F1 this year so I'm really looking forward to that I'll I'll be there in person and I won't be in Vegas but I can't wait to watch it and to hear all the stories that are around the weekend so yeah I hope it's everything it's cracked up to be and then yeah just just to have you know the biggest season we've ever had in Formula One that the most race is it's a season of nutrition. That's another thing I'm looking forward to how do the teams prepare themselves and

survive this absolutely epic grueling season. You know, in unprecedented situation going into this. I don't know how they're going to play it, how the driver is going to have stamina and, you know, what if we had a season like 2021? And it's as long as it is now. It's, you know, it's just a It just takes its toll that even if it's just one or two X races, it really takes its toll mentally for the drivers. So, yeah, they're in for the long run, and that's going to be fun to watch. For sure, for sure.

Yeah, Sam mentioned we've got a couple more questions for my listeners. The first one is quite timely, I guess, but your thoughts on the potential entry for Andretti Cadillac, that's probably been the most talked about thing on the off season, But yeah, what are your thoughts on that potentially happening? I mean, I don't really know. I'm sure the team principles have more of an idea than I do. But even then, it seems to be a very political situation.

It's in a way, having any new team on the grid dilutes, it dilutes those slices of the pie, doesn't it? So, you know, they have to be careful. It has to be worth it financially. I mean, in terms of the spectacle, having extra entertainment, more cars in the grid, it's an honest and simplistic way to look at things and myself included in that. Yeah, I want to see more cars in the grid. Andretti is a massive name. Cadillac's a big name.

It's an OEM. Yeah, why not? Let's do it. Bring it on. But when you start reading into the details, you do understand the treas. do understand the trepidation and you understand the politics around it as well. So it's never an easy world, is it? No, no.

Especially the world of Formula One. Exactly. And then just one final question before I hand you over to Ben's excellent quiz. Excellent. What's been your, well, maybe excellent. But what's been your favourite championship moment, but as a fan? So just watching over the years, what's been your best moment in F1 to watch? Oh, best moment.

That's to choose one. I think I'm still coming down from the 2021 season, if I'm honest. We all are. We all are. It must be up there with the best ever. And I'm, it's funny, yeah, for the younger generation, never got to see Senor and Pross battled it out in the McLaren. First of all, I feel really sorry for you.

Age does have its benefits. Secondly, if you did mess out on that time, well, that's what it was like, 2021, but in the same team, that's Sena and Prost all over again. And, yeah, so I witnessed that at the time. I was young, but I could understand what was going on. it was brutal

and in 2021 was like a repeat of that that battle between Senna and Prost and there but other moments really stand out watching Damon Hill win the World Championship in Suzuki in 96 that was an incredible

incredible moment and also Mansel winning his winning his first and well only F1 World Championship yeah but if I really had to choose one best moment in inverted commons

I would take the whole season of 2021 it really for me it really was it just encapsulates everything about sport any sport it just that's why we watch it that's why we do it that's why we get passionate about it and it was just

whoever you see supported, the reason it was so, whether it was Max or Lewis, whoever you supported, the reason you became so emotional about it is because it was so damn good to watch and so close.

That's, it just had everything. It had everything. So yeah, for me, that's probably the best season of Formula One I've ever seen. Okay. Before we let you go and we're going to play a quick game. So just to give you a reference on

this series before. If you were to lose to Sam at this game, you wouldn't be the first guest to lose to Sam. So you don't have to worry about that. Jack Nichols managed to use for Sam. Can I give Karun Chandok a quick call, just swap position?

It's weirdly, we had Karun Chandok on the show quite a long time ago, and we did a quiz of his own F1 career. And I mean this with the greatest respect to Karin. He wasn't very good at it. Like, he was brilliant at anything that wasn't his own career. But...

I thought he meant he wasn't very good at his own career. Oh, no, no. He was quite his own career. If you go in there on that route, then I'm really nervous. No, not at all. So it's quickly... He can run. He's a great...

He's an avid listener at the show as well. He'll be all over this, so, you know. Of course. Yes. Love you, Kroom. Of course. So late breaking becomes late faking for this game. It's actually a pretty simple concept.

And not just to give you a bit of warning, we have a jingle for this. I'm going to play it. This is actually the first time this jingle's made it onto the show. So there is that honor. I'm on it. It's a game of mystery, where one answer is wrong.

So we got to guess which one it's late faking. It's beautiful, isn't it? I love it. I'm ready. Here's the concept. So I will say a category, and there are four answers in that category, and what you have to do is find the fake. So Sam and aunt, you'll take it in turns. You'll pick a number between one and six.

So you'll take it in turn to see if you can get yours right. So for example, if the category was drivers that have raced in Formula One, and the answers were, Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher, Anthony Davidson, and Sam, you would say Sam is the fake because he hasn't raced an F1 quite yet. So that's how it won't be quite as easy as that. Oh no, I'm afraid. But that's the concept at least. I'll let Sam go first so he can, well, I was going to show how it's done, but that's probably not going to happen. So what number do you want between one and six, Sam? For once, I'll start. with number one please Ben okay number one so I'm going to give you four manufacturers

I want you to name which one of them didn't race in the 50s the 1950s oh right great good start for me okay this is a fine era all right you love the 50s you've got astor martin yeah Porsche yeah Bugatti yeah and Mazda which one of those didn't race an f1 in the 50s. Three of them did. A couple of bloody kerb balls in there, Benjamin. Or I'm just going to keep it quick, keep it snappy. I'm going to go, just because it feels wrong,

that Mazda weren't in Formula 1 in the 50s. Maybe that should be your new technique for these game shows. Answer quickly and don't second guess yourself, because that is correct. The other three didn't race in the 50s. Oh, hang on, are we racing each other here to answer the question? No, no, you'll take it in terms. I'm going to say, damn, he's just going to my answer.

I'm too slow again. I thought you'd get in there before you... No, that's harassed me like you with Karim Chandok's career. I'm so sorry, Karin. He's going to hate me forever, though. A number between two and six, Sam. Let's keep it simple. Two. Nice and simple.

Okay, so of these four drives, drivers, three of them have at least 30 podiums in their career. One of them doesn't. Which one is it? So you've got one Pablo Montoya, one Manuel Fangio, Damon Hill, and John Watson. You said there's one driver that hasn't got 30 podium. Correct. Oh, no Montoya didn't win a lot of races necessarily, but he was on the podium a lot. I think that discounts him. They didn't do many races back in Fanjo's day. Actual races in the sea, but he won a lot.

I thought, I'd be stupid to say him, wouldn't I, surely? Damon, definitely, I mean, yeah, he definitely had that. You know what? I'm going to say Fanjo. It's an understandable logic, but it's not correct, I'm afraid. John Watson. John Watson. Yeah, okay.

I thought it might be one of those questions that was like, a bit of a trick one, but actually, it would be interesting, is not how many podiums found Joe? He had 35, so it wasn't that much. Yeah, it's not such a... Yeah, okay.

Okay, usually as well with these questions, I have no reservations about, like, sending Harry and Sam into mental torture, but when I've got a guest that I actually respects, I mean, I actually feel bad now. Ordinarily, it's fine. A number between A number between three.

A number between three and six, Sam. Again, I'll keep it easy for you, Ben, this time. We're not number three. Okay. How much do you know about Pedro de la Rosa? Yeah, not much. I'm not really a classicist on Pedro. No, interesting.

I'm going to be four drivers. Three of them have raced against Pedro de la Rosa in F1. One of them never did. Which one is it? Sebastian Borde. Yeah. Jean-Alaise. Okay.

Noreen Carthacaean and Daniel Ricardo. Oh, that is quite tricky. I'm going to go John Alazy. It's not correct. I love the fact that Pedro de la Rosa raced against John Alazy and Daniel Ricardo. The correct answer was Bordeaux.

That's what threw me off was the time gap. He's one of the very few drivers that's raced in three different decades, Pedro de la Rosa. he just about covered off the early 2010s, but also the late 90s. One of those nerdy stats. Which means it stays at 1-0.

Back to you, Ann, 4, 5, or 6? Yeah, 4. 4. Okay. There are four drivers here. Three of them raced under two different nationalities when they were in F1, but one only raced under one nationality.

So you need to pick out that one. The four drivers, Edgar Bath, come on. Helbert Marco, Robert Duenbos, and Bertrand Gasho. Hang on, say them again?

I only heard three. So Edgar Bath, very well known, of course. Helbert Marco, Robert Duenboss, and Bertrand Gashow. Only one of them didn't race under under two dash a little.

Yeah, two damage that. Hmm. From this. You've not made the Mizi, Ben? I mean, I don't even, I don't, honestly, I don't even, I don't recognize the name of the first driver. But, Helmut Marco, I'm going to say here. I'm going to go Bertram Gasho. I'm afraid it's Helmut Marco.

They were my two. Yeah. Of the two. so Edgar Bauff So Bertrand Gassau raced under the French and Belgian nationalities in his career Duombos, Monaco and the Netherlands

and Edgar Bauff raced for both East Germany and West Germany but there's no shame of not knowing that because he didn't race he raced in the 1950s and 60s so I basically had to find another answer that was right when I

realized I wanted this as a question because I thought there'd be more than just So you went digging very deep I thought of Duobos and Gashow straight away I'm like oh this would be a good question and they realised there wasn't an obvious third one out there so that's why I'd get buffed as well because he's Swiss French

but he only ever raced under the French flag didn't he? Maybe you competed in like GP2 or F2 under the Swiss flag I don't know I can't remember but yeah I remember I remember I was expecting his name to be in there as well. Yeah, I think there were quite a few that fell in that category of

raced under something different in F2. But yeah. Right. Do you want to go for number five, Sam? Yes, please, Ben. I'll have number five. Good, because I've wanted you to have this question. There are four constructors here, apart from one of them doesn't exist.

Which one is it? This is my kill. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. So you've got life, Theodore, Wobblers, and First. Which one of those does a list is?

Oh, he does it every time. I'm like a TV character that doesn't know when I'm having my leg pulled, and he makes something up every time, and I fall for it every time. Now, life I know is in Formula One, Theodore, I'm pretty certain, is it's the first or wobblers. And you know what?

I'd have to go for it because it's so stupid you know it's probably wrong wobblers has got to be the answer I go for I was really hoping you were going to say something else but it is wobblers Yeah I've had you like This is a fix

I'm telling you It is It's 2021 all over again It's completely fixed Which by a process of elimination leaves you were number six Sam. Four drivers here.

Three of them scored over 50 points for Toro Rosso, which one didn't. Three of them scored over 50 points for Toro Rossso. So you've got Max Verstappen, Jean-Erik Verne, Daniel Ricardo, and Carlos Seines. Same again, sorry, Max Verstappen. Jean-Erik Verne, Daniel Ricardo. and Carlos Sines. That is a tough one.

50 points, no total time at Toro Rosso. Correct. 50, yeah, sounds like quite a lot for, sounds like quite a lot for Vestappen because he wasn't there for very long because he moved to Red Bull so soon. I'm going to go through with Vestappen.

I think it's fair logic again, but unfortunately he did score 50. Signs was by... Exactly. Well, it's 62, so it wasn't too much over, but Signs was by far the most on that list. The correct answer was Daniel Ricardo. Yeah, I know.

The Toro also wasn't quite as good as it was in 15, but... I failed miserably at this. I told you. You did what I live in the moment. You do hold something. to Sam, though. You've raised an F1. So you've

got that time. I've got to. Fair. Fair. I would have got his wobblers question. I mean, I'll happily trade my wobblers question for a driving anything against me and not a problem. Seems you won so comprehensively.

Thanks. Now, the problem is, as part of this series of friends of the podcast, the last thing that we ask is, are you now a friend of the podcast? What I've noted is that we should ask that question before the quiz rather than after it in case the guest loses. But can you now say you are a friend of the podcast? I am a friend of the podcast. Oh, we've succeeded.

I mean, it's inspired me to go and swat up on my nerdy F1 knowledge. We'll take it. Thank you. Thank you. It's good fun. Thanks for that. I massively appreciate you coming along and being so open about your time in F1 and otherwise some really insightful answers. And I know whenever we do an episode of this series, the listeners are always really appreciative. So thank you for your time first and foremost and just some great answers in there. No, no. It's absolute pleasure. And yeah, hopefully everybody listening in enjoyed my story and my time in Formula One. and the world of sports cards as well.

So thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for your time as well. Massively appreciate it. We'll be back with another episode of this series at some time in the not too distant future. And remember, keep breaking late. Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.