The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Mid-Season Grades for Every F1 Driver! | Part 2

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

Ben and Sam are back for part two of their F1 driver report cards, breaking down who has impressed and who has underdelivered in the first half of the 2025 season. Plus, they dive into the F1 movie, Apple’s possible entry into the sport, and answer some listener questions... >>> Don't miss out - limited tickets left for our 2025 LIVE SHOW in Austin TX! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CLICK HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to grab yours or for more info!

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. It's the last Sunday before we're back to F1. Thank goodness. Yeah, thank goodness for that. We're finally getting it some action.

It's our last sleepy Sunday for a little bit of late breaking F1. A little lying for all of you F1 fans. See that's Sunday. I'm sure 930. Well done. You're descending into Magnus. It's good. If we get F1 back immediately.

One race, so they're a summer break, is it? Two races. We've got Belgium and then Hungary. How can I forget the Hungara ring? Beautiful Nagyjad. Yes, how can you forget the beautiful water park where it's definitely starting to rage?

Yeah, at one point, I think it would just be the sprinklers that are causing the slides to be wet. That's fair. That's fair. I mean, you've decided to fill the gap, fill the void in between F1 races by occupying your time with some other F1 stuff, specifically the F1 movie. Yes, I thought, you know what? As an F1 podcast, at least one of us should go and see the F1 movie. And I kind of also did some research because on this, I went and watched the new Hill documentary on Sky. And I'll talk about both in a sec.

Because you haven't seen it, Ben, right? Am I the right, I think of it? I have not seen it. Right, okay. So a bit controversial, I think, the F1 movie for F1 fangs of kind of do we go, how unrealistic is it going to be, is it going to be silly, want to make a mockery of our sport? The answer is, no, it doesn't, if you relax your mind of what you expect from an F1 film. I think you have to go in there expecting Hollywood, cinema, it's drama, it's meant to be fun, it's meant to be silly. I've written down some thoughts here.

So there were some negatives. and I think that they need to be made quite clear that a lot of these things were either not good, not good for the sport or just not needed. There's a romance section between the main character, Sandy Hayes, who's played by Brad Pitt, and his chief design officer. It's not required.

It's weird, it's a weird professional boundary that gets crossed. I know that sounds really lame, but like he doesn't need to sleep with his design officer. It's not required, right? Ben, thoughts? No, I've seen it, but really? Yeah, I've obviously read some stuff and it's just a lack of awareness. Like, come on.

Really? Did that manage to get through that many people without someone going, hang on a minute. Should we really be doing this? It just doesn't change the plot in any way. You can easily have all the plot relations to that storyline in some other way that makes a lot more sense via the sport. And it would give almost a nice camaraderie or team members. membership or something like that rather than going behind everyone's back. Anyway, don't agree with that.

I didn't love it. But it's film romance is a part of it, but didn't love it. The calendar doesn't make any sense that they're racing. There's only 17 races in the season, which is odd because this is all based on modern Formula 1. It's not COVID Formula 1. It's not 10 years Formula 1. I think it's technically set in the 2024 season.

And in 20203 season this part, you see the Alpha Romeo, for example, in there at one point, Bottas is driving it. I don't know why they picked a 17 race calendar and then the last seven races were things like Silverstone Japan suddenly appears the Hungara Ring is in there as we just mentioned and you're like we're really jumping around Vegas is one of the proxious but races which makes sense

but we've missed like a whole portion of the season you just think you could have kept it as a 24 season and just simulated some results and just told us that things didn't go to plan or, you know, something happened. We were looking somewhere else. It felt like an odd break when we're really clear on how the calendar works in Formula One.

If you're trying to bring people into the sport, that felt a bit confusing. Ben, this one will annoy you. I know it really does annoy you, but this one will actually really annoy you is the age of Sunny Hayes in the sport. In Nor Brad Pitt's age, right? In your Brad Pitt, right?

Okay, he's older, we get it. Fine. But what annoys me is he isn't playing a younger Sunny Hayes. He's almost the same age as, Brad Pitt in the film. I thought he'd be like early 40s. He was 20 years old or so racing with Prost Sanger and Mansell.

So that means that he must have been at least in the 1990, 1991 season, which means he's been racing for 20, 32, 33 years at that point. But he was already 20. So that means he's at least 53, 54 years old by the time he gets to

the current season that we're in. I don't get that. Stretching it. It's a push. It really is a push. You know, they tried to loop it. He couldn't have made it his idol.

They couldn't have made it. I don't know. Anyway, I didn't like that. Didn't like that. This is a minor thing, but at one point he's driving a race car with his fire suit, just undone in a race. And that was like a really mini oversight that I just thought,

come on. Just reshoot it AI. I don't care what you do, but it's just wide open in the F1 car in a race. The initial racing that Sangy Hayes does, when he tries to score them a point, just breaks so many. rules in Formula One.

Like, he's just crashing into cars intentionally. It's like what Kevin Magnuson did in Miami. But, like, he's actually just crashing into cars. Over the team radio, he's going, oopsie. Sorry about that. Coming through. And it's like, sorry, that was a bit, that was a bit Donald Trump. That wasn't very rapid.

But, yeah, I'm kind of like, and then he gets a noise that he gets giving a group penalty for the next race. I'm like, mate, you should have been black flagged. You should be being disqualified out of here. So that was good. and then like the development of the car the aim beggar if you know this is not to win the title

it's not to be the best it's simply to save the team they're the last team on the grid they're going bankrupt and the way that they've got to deal with the board to sell the team is they must have a great result at the end of the season I won't spoil it for anyone but this team in Silverstone which is considered the midpoint of the season which it is here

but it's half the races it's the worst car genuinely the worst car they're getting lapped And then by Abu Dhabi, they had been challenging for podiums on a regular basis. Like one upgrade comes in, challenging for podiums. It's a dramatic stretch, which I didn't love, but again, I can get behind. Now, after all those, there are some positives in this. It's a film, and you need to realize it's a film, and it did make me smile.

I sat down there, and I watched the Formula One action, I watched them go wheel to wheel, I watched the overtakes, absolutely loved it. was there grinning from here to wear. It made me do that, oh, this is Formula One, and it's exciting, and it's high energy, and it's fast. And I've heard stories about it from newcomers, and they're like, oh, I didn't know F1 was that interesting. I think it was that exciting.

And then hopefully they went to watch Silverstone afterwards, and it was punchy and fun and interesting for them. It isn't Rush. It isn't Ford versus Ferrari. It's not that quality. But it is a good film. I enjoyed the cinematography. I love the way they filmed the races.

They did a great job at integrating the team into the real world. Formula One. The real drivers are well integrating into the film as well. It's not too cringy. It's not too embarrassing for anyone. Overall, I think it's probably a net positive for F1. And I think it's a continuation of this drive-to-svive era. But if you are a hardcore F-1 fan like ourselves, go in there, pitch your soul.

Don't take it too seriously. Roll your eyes a little bit and move on. And that's where I struggle when I then watch Hill. Because Hill was the retelling from Damon Hill himself and his wife, Georgie, about his career and how he followed in his father, Graham Hill's footsteps and the difficulties around that and going up against Mansell and Prost and Sena and then Jacques Villeneuve and Schumacher. You know, what a line-up of drivers he goes up against. He tells the story of Hill, his own life so passionately, so emotionally, so much detail,

it's so raw. And I would urge you to go and watch that documentary. Because if you're maybe new to Formula One, you think, well, we'll learn a bit about 90s Formula One, that's a great place to start. He tells that story so beautifully, so brilliantly. It's so inspiring to watch him go through that. He's a good guy, is Damon Hill. And he's really fair, I think, in a lot of instances that go on through the

cinema and they have a lot of really interesting tidbits. For example, Georgie, his wife, is sat in the trailer at the backing end of the Sengen, comes in before the 1994 San Mara Grand Prix where events sadly happen. And it's a really insightful conversation that she has with Exengen where he's passionately interesting about her life and Damon's life and the kids that they have. And it's really eye-opening and really wonderful. So go check out Hill. We'll definitely recommend it. So yeah, that's how I filled my F-1 break. I hope you enjoyed that. Well, it ties in quite nicely to a topic we've got coming up later on. It's not specifically about the F-1 movie, but it's more about Apple's involvement in F-1,

potentially making a bid for the US rights from 2026 onwards. So that will certainly play a part in that conversation as well. Let's turn our attention to ranking the drivers. So if you haven't listened to our midweek episode on Wednesday, would absolutely urge you to do so because that covers the first half of the grid. And then come right back here because we're going to cover the next 10 drivers from this 2025 season so far. Very simple grading system.

We look at the first 12 races of the season. We give them a grade from A plus down to wherever we decide is the bottom of this grading scale. We had some similarities on Wednesday's episode, somewhere we were a little bit further apart as well. So we'll see what these 10 drivers bring today. Some heavy hitters still to come. And we start with one of those, the fourth place driver in the driver's championship. That is George Russell. What are you grading him? Russell is one of the easiest ones on this whole list for me. I've gone straight in with an A. That Mercedes is nowhere near the quality of the McLaren. I think that it is struggled in a few of those races. And whilst he started well, I do think

there have been some challenges that have arisen, but I've got one line next to George Russell's name, A ranking, only three races outside the top five, which I think is, the consistency there is just mind-blowing me good. He is showing, even with all the speculation around for Stapper, maybe going to Mercedes, shouldn't be answering any of the staff and what would Russell do, should he be kicked out of the team, that he is such a top quality driver. And I think we call him the burglar for a reason, because much like Charlotte-Claher in some seasons with that Ferrari, I don't think that Mercedes should regularly be appearing in the podium, fourth places, fifth places, as much as it does. And Russell, I think, is really delivering a fantastic season. He's had a real continuation on from

when he was up against Lewis Hamilton. He now runs that team, I think, internally. I'm really impressive how this season's gone. So I've given him a big fat A. Agreed. A. We love that. I think he has displayed excellent consistency so far this year. And you say he's only been outside the top five on three occasions. Not saying those three were all perfect racing. is from George Russell, but I think strategy led him to finish outside the top five on all three. One was Monaco, right? And he had to start outside the top 10 anyway due to a failure in his car. Yeah, Monaco, I don't hold against him whatsoever. I maintain that anyone in his position, including the McLaren's, including Max Verstappen, the Ferraris, anyone in his position would

not have scored points that day because strategically, in terms of overtaking at Monaco being so difficult and strategically the V-Cab and Williams teams playing those games, I don't think anyone would have got back into the points. So I don't blame him for that. Silverstone, whilst that wasn't a perfect race from Russell, strategically driven with that early call to go onto the dry tires. And then Imler as well, he was on the same strategy or a very similar strategy to Charlotte Claire. And we know that wasn't the right call. It was far better to be on the Hamilton-Norris-Vastappen strategy that day. So in all three instances, you can say it wasn't outright because of George Russell. And I actually looked at if you were to remove his two worst finishes, Silverstone and Monaco,

his average finish is 3.8 so far this year. It's crazy. It's crazy good. It's incredible consistency. Canada's obviously the highlight. I think holding off Lando Norris at Bahrain is another one I would throw in there. He's been the non-McClaren winner of China and Miami. and he's been excellent against his teammate. I believe he's 12 out of 12 against Antonelli so far this year, which if you look at, I know you can say, well, Antonelli's a rookie, you would expect that. Well, if you look at others like Holkenberg against Portoletto

or Ockon against Behrman, the experienced driver is winning, but in both of those instances, it's eight out of 12. So they aren't doing the same absolute annihilation that what George Russell has been doing. So a few tougher runs that you mention prevent this from being an A plus, but an easy A for me. A fellow, Brit, coming up next, Olly Beerman. Gerr, the Bearman, which I'm sure is what he says when he crosses the line. I hope we're not.

Actually, no, I hope he does. I hope he really does. Ciao. Yes, the Bear Man. I've given him a C plus. I think that he has held himself well. He's giving himself a good account coming to Formula One for the first full season. we saw him do a substitute appearance a couple of times the season before,

but at his first full season, I think he's done good, a good job. He's had one point's finish. And in my mind, I thought it was more when I went back and did my research on the season. I thought that he had appeared, because he finished being 11th place three times, I thought, oh, he's definitely bringing the points more. Qualifying is, I think, is what's letting him down, seemingly where the heart is actually well-performing and where Ocon is going to score really good points. Behrman is regularly being knocked out in Q1

and that tends to be what's letting him down but his race pace for the most part seems really solid seems like he's got good consistency his race management is strong which is what we like to see early on but I want to make sure that his quality is one lap pace is what's improving because I do think much like

Sangoda who we have later on in this in this series where we're doing the rankings it's stopping him from progressing same as what Lawson had as well Lawson was stopped showing a lot of points scoring positions because he was qualifying poorly. And I actually think Berman,

if he moved up even an average of three places in qualifying each time, he would most likely be finishing maybe a ninth in 2011, the 10th and single 11th. There's a real chance there that he's able to have, yeah, it's only maybe four or five extra points to his name. But finishing 10th three times in a row, rather than 11th is a real credit to a rookie in a season, especially in a half like that.

So I'm giving him a C-plus. I don't think he's been embarrassing against Oconn at all. I think he's had some real stellar performances, but overall I do think O'Kong and in that half, where it's a bit topsy-turvy, has had the better of it this season. I'm just copying your answers at this point, C-plus. There have been some underrated performances, I think, from Berman so far this year. I often go back to the 10th place he got at the Japanese GP,

which doesn't sound like much, but on that day, I don't think the Hass was anywhere near capable or should have been near the points, and yet he was. And that was another one of those days where the top guys just didn't retire. and he's there in 10th. If he gets a slightly different race where a few of the top guys go out, that turns into an 8 for a 7th, and that probably doubles his points hole for the season so far.

You're right, he's been 11th 3 times. He's been 12th for once. He's been 13th for once as well. Like, he's been on the cusp of points more often than not, which is why I think his points tally is maybe slightly misleading. You're also right in terms of the weaknesses and where he needs to improve. It is qualifying.

There have been errors. He's crashed the car a few times. The consistency in qualifying hasn't been there. He's been on the back two rows of the grid six times, so in half of the race so far this year. But he does have a saving grace in that so is Ocon. Ocon has also been on the back two roads of the grid six times this season. And we know Ocon is far more experienced,

has far more pedigree when it comes to qualifying in this sport against some high-profile teammates, which leads me to believe it's probably more hash-driven than it is Berman-driven. But it is still something he needs to improve on. Like you say, if he can up his average grid spot by even a couple, that's going to give him, his race paces is already pretty good. So that will give him enough, I think, to start getting some more regular points.

It's been a while since he scored his last one. Nico Holkenberg, staying in the midfield, and I deliberately say midfield because it's not back of the grid anymore for this Salber and this season for Nico Holcomberg. He's managed to find his way into the top 10 in the championship standings. Very good runners of late, Sam.

What's your grading for him? Yeah, I think that line there was really crucial. Very good runners of late. I think there is a real chance here. I'm sorry to a man that's screaming at their radios or if you're watching on YouTube. A star, A star. I don't think it's an A.

I think it's a guy. I've given him an A. I still think he's being fantastic this season, but I don't think it's, you know, 10 out of 10, 4 marks. 10 out of 10 4 marks will be the annihilation of your teammate like George Russell did to Antonelli. He hasn't. Bortoletto has on in some instances being very competitive

alongside Nika Holkenberg. And I do think there are occasions where he has been outdriven by Bortoletto. It's not often, but that does drop you from the top score down to the second top score. That last run, though, the fifth in Spain, the eighth in Canada, the ninth in Austria, and then the podium in Great Britain, were phenomenal.

And that is all topped off by the fact that he took advantage of quite a crazy Grand Prix in Australia to pick up that seventh place. But I do think his results

followed the trend of the salver improving because you look at what was going on early wrong in the season. You know, a 15th, a 16th,

a 16th, a 16th, 12th, which is a good performance that he had in Imola. And then the 16th, again,

when we're back in Monaco, of course, tough to overtake there. It felt like he was stuck in a certain part of that. So he was doing well.

He was regularly beating the bat mark because he wasn't D&Fing. He wasn't getting caught up in the drama. That's what you expect of someone of Mika Holgerberg's experience to be able to navigate the dramas of the back end of that field. And the moment that car has picked up,

he has improved. Now, I think he's outdriven the car because I think that fifth in Spain was miraculous. The way he beat Lewis Hamilton, for example, was spectacular taking advantage on that safety car,

but the safety car played him into it. He had a good result anyway. A points finish was on the cards, but that fifth was improved by what he was able to do with that safety car restart. Great Britain, of course. I think he could have had a good result.

I think the podium was on because of what happened with the crazy weather and what happened with so many drivers around him, but still he was the one that got to that podium. So he has been fantastic, but I do think there's a couple of little instances where he has been helped along his way, or maybe some results further back of maybe mass, just how good a season this been.

But it's a solid nine out of ten seasons so far for me. I've gone with an A-minus. I think the last four races, that you detailed there, the Spanish GP, Canadian, Austrian, and British GPs. I think it's the best four-race stretch of any driver so far this year in a road. I can buy it. It has been exceptional. And even if you take away, you know, it's a fifth and eighth and two, nine, a ninth and a third,

but even if you take away like the actual finishing position and just work out where has he finished in and amongst the midfield, you take out the top four teams and I appreciate he has beaten some of those drivers in these in these races, but take those out of the equation. It's a midfield win, P2, P4 win. That's an excellent run for a salba, which I appreciate has improved. But he started on the back of the grid in two of those four races as well. So it has been an exceptional one. Spanish GP, I thought was brilliant.

The overtake on Lewis Hamilton was great, but he was excellent before that. Canada, he had to make a lot of overtakes in order to make that strategy. you work. And then obviously, Austria and Silverstone, he's had to come from a long way back to score points. And in the case of Silverstone, a lot of points. Before that, it was a lot of okay. The car isn't able to really give him much more than what he delivered. There were a few poor races in there. I thought the Chinese GP was not great, but it's slim pickings on that front. So, yeah, A-minus. Yuki Sonoda's up next. Yuki, Yuki, Yuki, you key, you key, the man I wish you give an A star.

I wish I could. You say A star or A plus? Oh, that's interesting. I, I, um, I was going to go A plus, but I. It's very American, the A plus. Yeah, very true. Yeah, yeah. We do A stars here.

I don't think we do that either. We do numbers now, don't we? Oh, yeah. The kids. Honestly. What are we doing in the education system with these numbers? What is a nine? Why is a top score a nine?

What does that mean? Anyway, sorry, that's a different route for another time. Um, what am I giving you key? I'll give him a D plus. I wish I could give him an A plus because I think he's been through difficulty. And I think Isaac Hajar is doing what Yuki Snow will have wanted to have done this season

and Yuki hasn't had the chance. First two races in the racing ball was fine, perfectly fine. Of course, Hajjar crashes out in the formation lap. So he hasn't really got anyone to go against him in Australia, but he does relatively well, it's fine. And then China comes around and he's then immediately removed from that seat and he doesn't get the chance to bed himself in. He doesn't get the chance to show what he's able to do

against a rookie teammate. And then he's only had three points finishes in this season so far. Two of them were 10th places. The ninth place in Bahrain, seemingly his best performance, and the one that he was far closest to Max Verstappan in, because obviously if Zappan was struggling. When for Stappan had one of his worst results is when Senaudas have one of his best. Which maybe tells you that the setup of the car was what causes it to be so different.

The issue is, I do think, there are some pace problems there as well. I think that you look at how Perez was struggling in that car, whilst he would go out in a Q1 or he would go out in a Q2 with Perez, he'd still regularly find himself back to a PA, a P7. It would happen quite regularly that he'd get himself to OK points. Not good enough for a team like Red Bull, but points. Yuki isn't doing that.

Now, the field is closer. I do think it's a far more competitive field this year. I think the rookies are a real step up this year. You can tell just in qualifying just how close it is, but Yuki isn't progressing in a way that I thought. he would, especially at a lot of tracks where overtaking is possible. And that rebel is the better car. He has been driving well. He's barely had a DNF all season. Let me look at my stats. He's won the NFL season. That was Saudi Arabia, which is great. It shows that he's staying out of

trouble, which previously was a problem for him. He would cause some crashes. He'd be evolving a lot of melee around the race track. He's not this time, but the raw pace isn't there. I would love to take him out and put him in a car that suits him to see if the development he had over the last four and a half seasons is true and he actually can be competitive or if it is purely this second seat red ball issue that we'll be talking about so long. I've gone with a D. It's his best two races so far this year have been his first two and I can't think what possibly connects those two races that doesn't connect the other ones. What's the mitigating factor here? Yeah, you say if he was at racing balls he would be doing or it would be hoping to do a similar job.

to what Hadjar has done. I have little doubt he would be. But he's not. He's in the Red Bull and he's struggling a lot. Saudi Arabia crash on lap 1 obviously wasn't great, but the annoying thing, I think, from his side and from anyone who wants to see a competitive second Red Bull seat, the annoying thing is how it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

Like when he joined Red Bull, it wasn't perfect, but he was on the fringe of points. He did score that ninth. in Bahrain. He had a couple of 10th place finishes. He had points in three of four races and the one he didn't was that Saudi Arabian DNF where he started inside the top 10, I think, just about. So he probably would have scored points there as well. But it's got way worse. Like you look at Monaco, his qualifying just made any progress impossible there. Spanish GP, Austrian GP. He's starting from the very back of the grid and he's trying to fight.

Austria is the worst one. Austria is the worst one. Yeah, I would agree with. that. He's trying to recover from poor qualifying results and he just doesn't have the pace advantage on the midfield to do that. I don't think it's a massive deficit to the others that he's fighting, but he's starting too far back. If he was able to get back into a string of Q3 results, he might start to get some points results again, but he's six straight appearances without making Q3 now, and that was after making Q3 and three of his first four. So that's got to be the concerning thing for him and for Red Bull is that not only is it not great, it's probably getting

worse. Yeah, you don't want that really. You'd like to think he's at least going to the sea and we've got a lot of hope for Yuki, but he's just not delivering on that right now. One final one before we go to a break, Fernando Alondo. Yeah, Fernando Alonso. I've given Fernando, I was teetering on this one. I went C plus in the end, but I can understand if maybe someone has slipped into the bees. If you compare himself as Stroll, which it feels up with disaster marting is something you have to do with teammates because the car is being quite bizarre throughout the season. The first two races where Lance Stroll scored his pretty much his best points throughout the season until we got to Silverstone, also didn't finish. And both of those instances, car breaking down, you know, troubles, caught up, whatever.

It meant that both opportunities where the car could clearly score points or it was involved in such a chaotic Grand Prix that the car was able to be in the points anyway, a lot so is unable to fight there and I don't really blame him for those DNFs so I've struggled to take that away from him but then the results were too dissimilar to what Lance Stroh was doing anyway in this midfield section of the season we've had so far where

the car wasn't great but like where Alonso would finish 11th 15th a couple of 15th I think his results are quite patternous I think it goes 11 15 11 15 11 something like that Lance Stroh isn't too far behind I think he's regularly kind of 14th, 16th, that kind of thing.

It shows that Alonso has the upper hand. Alonso is better. It's only in the last four Grand Prix, but I thought, finally, Alonso is showing Alonso. We're really starting to see him do this now. And, you know, the ninth place in Spain, the two seventh places in a row in Austria and Canada were great.

The car is starting to improve clearly. I expect him more in G. I know his strategy was bad. I know his strategy was bad. But he is savvy enough. He is strategically minded. He's got the experience. I thought that whilst he only just lost to his teammate, which is hilarious,

it was that close anyway. I thought he should have been the guy fighting further up. It just didn't play out that way because of strategy a long of the time. So, yeah, I've gone C plus, but I really could accept a higher score if you've got the reasons for it. Because I think that easily it could be a B. You know, it could be that easy. I've gone B minus. I nearly went to a B, but I went down to a B minus just because of a few of those errors.

The off that he had at the Spanish GP, Australia. and how he crashed out there, that meant I couldn't go too much higher than a B minus. But where I've elevated him a little bit is just based on, I think whilst he scored points in the last four races, there were quite a few races before that where I think he deserved points and either the car wasn't quite performing as it could have done or he got unlucky. So Monaco, I think he deserved not only points,

but good points there based on where he qualified. Carr let him down. Imola strategically he was let him. down there. He qualified well inside the top 10. So did Stroth, to be fair, but I think he deserved points. He made some, he made the most of it as well, but 11th place there. And I think there were a few earlier performances in the season that were pretty good just in a car that wasn't quite strong enough. The Saudi Arabian GP and the Japanese GP immediately sprang to mind. But it's turning around for him. Five of the last six races, he's been in Q3. I think if, if the car continues

on this trajectory, he'll be in the points regularly in the second half of this season. So, yeah, it's getting better for him. Can't believe it then. We've done a 30 minute first segment. Can you believe it, folks? You are very welcome indeed. We'll go to a break now, but we've got five more drivers to review to complete the grid. The next segment will be three minutes long.

Yes, timed. Welcome back, everyone. Five more drivers to look at. We've done 15. Five more to go, Sam. And we'll start off this final segment. of grading with Charlelele. Yes, chocolate of Claire,

the man that doesn't melt under pressure. I've given him a B plus. Charlotte Claire has been the George Russell. I know that sounds like a really strange say of words. The George Russell. The George Russell. He shouldn't be there in many instances.

He's had, he's been outside the points once, and that was in Silverstone. That was a howler, absolute stinker of a graham. from Charles LeCla. Now, I know that Ferrari is not good in the wet, but he's beaten Lewis Hamilton, what, 10 out of the 12 Grand Prix, something like that.

That was the race that Lewis Hamilton showed why he's still in the Ferrari, where he's still competing, because whilst Hamilton looked like he struggled a little bit, the fact that he was fourth and the charts for podium, maybe in a few lapsed time may have come around, LeCler was barely ever in the chance for points. And I know that he made the wrong call strategically,

but unlike Russell, who regularly improved, got himself back into fighting for points and was regularly there with Hamilton at many occasions. The clerk just had issue after issue after issue because it's got worse and worse and worse and worse for him. But other than that, other than that, he's had four sneaky podiums. He has been beating High Hamilton one other time. I think that was in. And again, he's on the wrong strategy at that point.

The sprint race didn't go to plan for him, but it's a sprint race. So realistically, I don't know too much more what he could do other than the couple of mistakes I've highlighted. So it's a really, really solid season. And I think Ferrari again, give him a car that this man deserves. Please free him. I've gone with an A minus. I might have gone to an A without the Silverstone debacle.

But the rest of the season has been very good. And, you know, it hasn't been from Ferrari's position, a very strong season. So it's harder to properly judge him alongside the elite of the sport this year. But when I went through the races, I was like, well, There's not too much here to pick out. He has had four podiums. Good start. He beat a McLaren in Saudi Arabia in one of those podiums.

He beat a McLaren in Monaco for another one. And he was the best driver after the two McLaren's in both the Spanish and the Austrian GPs. And then I looked at a few others. Japanese GP, I think he probably maximized that Grand Prix. Bahrain strategy hurt him a little bit. The safety car came out of the wrong time for Ferrari, but still I think he maximized that. Imola strategically not on the right side of things,

but was the best on that strategy. So I think there's seven races there. That's over half the season where I think he's probably got the most out of a race. I think that's deserving of an A-minus. Franco Colopinto, I don't think, and I could be wrong, I don't think I am. I don't think he's going to be scoring an A-minus.

What have you scored Franco Colopinto? You're right. It's like A-plus. Thank you, Argentina. Subscribe. Subscribe. Yeah, it's a game of D. which is a little bit different than the alphabet.

So obviously we've got to judge him on the 6th Grand Prix here and it's tricky to do so, but he's not had the most glowing 6th Grand Prix. He's not coming and set the world a light like we thought he might do when he was at Williams for those kind of 6th, 7 Grand Prix that he stepped him for the first time round. He hasn't finished above 13th place

in that entire 6th Grand Prix that he's had. And Gassely at that point has had two points finishes in the time that they've been together. Now Gassely is far more experienced. He's a far more well-reli. grounded driver, but the gap between them has been far larger than I expected. The real man in the coughing for me and this was the removal of himself from the Silverstone Grand Prix due to his mistake that he made in the qualifying.

That is a real low light for him. That's a bit embarrassing for a racing drive that the collision that they made. It was so bad that the car could be repairing in time. We've seen some repair jobs in Formula One. They've turned cars around faster than that. Or they were so worried about his performance in qualifying. and you know what Flavio's like, that they just decided that it wasn't worth the damage

to send him out again and risk anything. And that shows a real lack of faith. It shows a real lack of performance. His best performance has been Canada, I think, overall. And even then he dropped back significantly. And I think Gasly had troubles with his car, so it made the gap look even worse. It's just not being the glowing resume

that we thought it might have been when he came back into Formula One or replaced Jack Dewing. And you have to slightly think, maybe Jack Dewing could have done with a little bit more time, maybe six races to judge people isn't a fair amount of time and that they deserve a little bit more time to shine.

So, yeah, I feel like a D could be viewed as harsh, but I can only give what I've given on the track despite only being six races. Yeah, I've gone with a D as well, but it is incomplete. He missed the first term of school, did Franco Collopin. So it's a far tougher grade.

And much like Jack doing, who we're not grading today because he's not active, but he probably would have got a D as well. It's difficult. They do deserve more races than what they're, getting in that seat. Canada was the best of the lot. You're absolutely right. He has been in Q2 on three of the six races so far, which is encouraging. The problem is you then compare it to Gassley who's been in Q3 on four of the six races they've been team. That's so good.

That's so good in that Alpine. Yeah. And I think that Alpine is genuinely getting somewhere. And Colopinto's just not able to show that right now. He's been nowhere in a few of those races. Spanish GP might have been the worst one. But again, it was so early on in his tenure in the Alpine that it's tough to criticize him too much, but we can only grade what's in front of us. Yeah, agreed. Isaac Hadjar, the Rizzler. The Rizler.

He gets a big B for boom. Of course. We bring the boom. Gow, if you are, I don't know, older than the age, you're probably about 18 years old, and you've got sad, like us three on this show, you pretty have no idea what the Rizler is. I know what, I respect you for not going. And you're like, why do I always see? boom or he does well.

Just get used to it, folks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a B for Hager. And I think that he's regularly in the points because of his Saturday performances. He has been able to do what Larson isn't able to do. And that is where the cutoff line is, one of them sits on one side and the other sits on the bad side, the relegation side. And Larson is so regularly finding himself in that 17th, 18th drop off where Hager will

speak through by a 10th or so. Then Hajar does something that you don't expect. You think, all right, it's currently going to be 15, maybe 14th. He'll elevate himself. And suddenly he'll be 9th, 8th. We'll see him higher than that as well. You know, he's regularly Q-3ing in qualifying, which is, you know, a new adjective to folks. Are you Q-3ing today?

I'm going to queue free to. You're trying a phrase. I don't like it. You don't like anything I say. That's fair, yeah. So I think he's qualifying as big sensation, which means that his race pace is allowed to just be consistent. He's out of the trouble.

He hasn't got to get through cars. around him that might be slower. And I don't think that racing ball's car is actually consistently that quick. So I do think he's elevated it. It means he's finishing higher than maybe the car would allow him. And also can't join him up there because the car hasn't got the pace cut through the crowd that are around him. The DNS, the DNS that he had in the formation lap in Australia was a low point.

I think even for a rookie, I know it's tough weather. It was only him that did it. I do. And you could tell on his face, we've seen it. We've been through it, the emotions that he went through. He was gutted. I get why he was gutted, but it was a kind of a blemish on his record. And he's only had one DNF overall in the season as well.

So I think that shows you that he is able to stay out of the damage, the melee, the issues that Lawson is regularly finding himself and is his teammate. And I think he would have held his own quite comfortably against Yuki-Sungoda this season, had they been teammates in that racing balls team. So, yeah, a B, I would almost have stretched to a B-plus. I really think he's been fantastic. This has been a couple of races where he has been beaten by Lawson or are supposed to be trapped and hasn't been able to get out,

and that's why I've dropped him down. I love when I do this, Ari, the Rizler, because I have loaded something onto the soundboard, but a long time ago, because I've can't, it's named Hadjar. I called it Hadjar, but I don't remember what it is,

and I'm sure I haven't played it. So this is, that's what that is. Oh, my goodness, me. Remember to keep on rising, folks. Yes. I'd probably ban from playing that song ever again, though, because I'm going with a B-minus. That's not very boom behavior. And that's quite doom. Doom, doom, doom, yeah. Yeah, there's just, when it's gone bad for Hadjar this year, it's gone properly bad. Like,

the Australian GP, the Canadian GP really struggled there, Silverstone last time out. So that maybe knocks him down a little bit. But there have been a lot of great performances. Japanese GP, he was the best midfielder. Saudi Arabia to Spain, that stretch of races was absolutely brilliant. Monaco P6, Spain, P7. Imola P9, but might have been even better. He had quite a mistimed safety car on that one where I think they elected to pit. But otherwise, he might have been seventh or so there as well.

Qualifying has absolutely been the highlight. He's eighth in terms of average qualifying position on the grid so far this year. He's been six times to Q2, six times to Q3, he hasn't been knocked out in Q1 once, and his average starting position is 10th. That's very, very good in a racing bull's car. And the last thing I want to say on Hajar is, you mentioned like when he's got through to Q3, he's had no P10 starts, which sounds like a weird compliment, but whenever he's got through to Q3, he's then made something of it as well.

If you look at Gazley and Albin, they've both made Q3 once more than Hadchar. They've both made Q3 seven times this year. But on three of those occasions each, they've started 10th. Hadjar in all six occasions has at least got to 9th. And in a few other instances, it's got even higher up the grid. That's great stuff to make something of it when you're there. So yeah, B minus from me. Carlos Sines, what are you saying for him?

Carlos Sikes, a smooth operator, sorry Carlos, you get a C-minus for me, which maybe it's harsh, but it's when I judged him up against Album, that's where his score came down, because when you look at his season, he's actually only being outside the points three times when he's actually finished a race. He's had the didn't start in, was it Austria, Austria, where he was able to get away, the car failed. But it is the fact that he's been failing against Album. Now, he does get a little bit of grace at the start of the season.

He's one of those drivers, of course, that went to a new team, had to bedding a little bit. It happens. It happens. But I did expect Sites to bounce back a little bit stronger. But what he is finishing, when he is at a place where the car is actually able to perform, you know, in all your likes of Spain, for example, he's doing well. He's scoring in the points. It's just not far enough in the points where Albaugh is usually in front of him, and that's the problem.

Where Album is regularly scoring fifth places and sixth places, Sites were sitting ninth. Science was sitting 10th. Now, this is strong. It's great for the team. but when your teammate is able to do that, I can't grade you as highly as what I was grading his teammate. So Sites is having just a good season. He's got some low lights.

He's got some highlights. But overall, it's a good season. I don't have too much to say to him because I do feel like where it's gone bad, it's not fully his fault. But when it's gone well, it hasn't been incredible where it's gone well. So he just sits in the middle for me. Yeah, which is why I've gone for a C. It's been okay, maybe slightly underpourable.

performing versus what I thought he might do, but he has also been quite unlucky so far this year. That's definitely been a factor. It's also been a case of the Williams has not been as strong the last, almost the second quarter of the season versus the first quarter of the season, I would say, which hasn't aligned with when Carlos Sines has kind of been at his best. He did have, when he started to get better, which I would say was Bahrain to Imola, because in that four-race stretch, he qualified eight, six, six, six. Sixth, sixth, sixth. And he didn't convert on a few of those.

Not all of them were his fault. Like Imola, for example, he was one of those drivers that went the wrong way on strategy. But it felt like as soon as he was starting to get to grips with that car around that period of time, that's when it turned and the Williams started to become a bit more difficult again. Now, that doesn't exonerate him because he has had a few Q1 exits so far this season, which have been poor. But I'd like to see if that Williams can get a little bit more competitive again,

could Carlos Sines make something of it? Because I think he might be in a better position to do so versus the beginning of this year. And we round out rankings with the guy who's currently leading the way. Oscar Piastri, what's he grading for him? I think it's like you've planned this, the one of the person that people are most interested in is at the end of the list. Well done. Keep them on the line, phone.

That's called customer retention. That is. I've played you like a fig or listen. Go, please stay. What have I given, Oskipari? I'll give him an A. I'll give him an A. It was a very, very high A.

Almost an A plus. He's on that cutoff, unfortunately, for him. He's had two performances all season where he's been outside the podium, which is a sensational turnaround from Lottesquiry. The first, of course, in Australia,

where he finished ninth. And that was because of that massive mistake, which Lano Norris made the same mistake and recovered better, as simple as that. that really. It meant that man don't have rest on to lead the championship after race one. And he walked away with two points. And yet we get to the halfway point of the season and he leads the championship by single digit figures, which shows an incredible turnaround.

And he had a great run of form between China and Miami where he won every single race, bar Japan, where he was third. And we know what happened in Japan. It was all about qualifying. And usually qualifying has been his strength. It's his consistency. It means he's very rarely away from the top three to start the Grand Prix, which means he's very rarely away from the top three to start the Grand Prix, which means that he can recover if anything has gone wrong. The negative, of course, is Canada, where his teammate started behind him. And actually, whilst he should have capitalised further, while he should have been in contention for that race win, the pace wasn't there for him that day.

But he holds off his teammate, and his teammate makes him the sake he crashes into the back of him. So whilst it was a downbeat for him, it was a much bigger blow for his teammate. The one I want to call out, actually, which stood out to me is maybe his worst result in terms of just pure pace against his teammate overall. I think was Monaco. In qualifying, he was never touching. Mando Norris, he never had the chance due to consistency,

due to ability to extract the pace out there. And then in the Grand Prix, now I've watched some highlights back of it. It's almost a miracle he finishes that Grand Prix because he's millimeters away from the wall where he's not in full control of that car on numerous occasions. So I don't know if that is just incredible skill, a lot of L'Oskopiastri's part or just, I don't know, blind luck.

And sure, you get a bit of both thing, F-1, and you need it to be there, so fair play to him. But I'm really having to nitpick. I really am to make sure that he's being held back by something that he hasn't had the perfect season. The ability that he showed in Bahrain was sensational. The race management in Spain was absolutely incredible. The pace he pulled out in the wet in Silverstone was unreal.

And then he was held back, of course, by two safety cars. And he made the mistake under the safety card that caused him the penalty that then resulted in him losing the race. That's on him. Austria harrowing Norris around for so long. I would have liked to him to, he made that mistake where, of course, he didn't keep the lead. We've liked to see him held on to that, which I think was on him. But it's really difficult to find proper, proper faults.

And that's why he's a really strong A for me. Yeah, I've gone with an A as well. If there was such a grade as an A plus minus, he probably would have got that. But yeah, he's not the only driver I've given an A, but he's at the top of those A's. Yeah, it's just not. many errors so far this year. That's why he's leading the championship. I think he's deserved all five of the wins that he's got. I don't think any of those have been dubious. And when you look through the six races where Lando Norris has beaten Oscar Piastri, you've got Monaco, sure that he was

off the pace there versus his teammate. Austria, it was competitive, but I'll still give Lando Norris the advantage. But then you look at the other four. Australia, Japan, I'maulet, Silverstone. I don't think Norris is outpacing him on any of those occasions, really. Australia was nip and tuck until the era from Piastri. Japanese GP, they are next to each other, right behind Max Verstappen. Immolet, Norris beats Piastri, but Piastri has the worst strategy to contend with. And Silverstone, Piastri led the way until the penalty. So I think in all four of those instances where Landon Norris has won, you could say the primary reason why Norris has won is not, he was just quicker than his teammate.

So there's plenty to be optimistic about for him. Okay, let's take our second break on this episode. On the other side, we're discussing Apple. Told you it was three minutes. Welcome back, everyone. So just weeks after its F1 movie became a box office hit, Apple has reportedly submitted a $150 million per year bid for exclusive US streaming rights starting in 2026.

A source told Business Insider that Disney-owned ESPN, F-1's current broadcaster in the country, is unlikely to match the offer, though talks are still ongoing. Apple already streams select MLB and all MLS matches, but landing F-1 would probably be its biggest global sports move yet. ESPN has aired F-1 since 2018, initially paying nothing. As the sports US popularity surged with Netflix's drive to survive, ESPN's rights deal has risen up to $90 million per year. Now F1 owner Liberty Media is seeking 150 to 180 million annually.

Of course, this Apple bid at the very low end of that, Sam, but would Apple be a good partner for F1? Yes, I really think they would. To be clearing, concise at the start of my point, they are a production powerhouse. Now, whether you like Apple iPhones, Macs, whatever it might be or not, maybe you're an Android user. Why? Burn.

I hope you enjoy your blurry Snapchat filters. Why would Apple be great? They have so much money that they could do so, so many brilliant things when it comes to production value. Go and look at the F1 movie. Whether you want to watch it through enjoyment or just study what they're able to actually produce and the quality of cinematography shows you just how to good it is. Have you ever watched a TV show from Apple, Ben? We're both massive fans of severance. Yes. And the quality of that, the script writing, the production quality, the sets. It is sensational. Now, I know that most of what I'm describing here is fictional. It's

created in a place where they can do whatever they want. But what can they do with sport? And the MLS has taken a big rise because of what they're doing. Now, I think that the current's rights holders, as you mentioned, they have to pay anything for a long time. And now they've only been paying 90 million. And that is cheap. That is so cheap when it comes to right soldiers. I think if you break that down per race, they're paying 37 million a race. No, sorry, 3.75 million a race.

Yeah, which is really, really cheap. And it looks like stats are saying that currently in North America, sorry, United States of America, very different, that there are 52 million F1 fans across the United States of America. Now, that is about one in eight people are properly enjoying, Formula One and 70% of the Gen Z fans would say that they interact with Formula One content every single day. That's huge. That is massive. 74% of those fans say they want to go and see a Formula One race in person and don't just wish to watch it on TV. Now, 150 million from our liberty for the

streaming rights, I think, is actually surprisingly fair for what they are advertising. And this is why I think it's surprisingly fair. You look at some of the other global streaming rights that are currently around on streaming platforms. It's becoming far more common. I've got some of notes here. Annual global sports, right, spending by streaming platforms is up to 10 US billion, right? That is a five times increase from five years ago. So 150 million on its own is dwarfed by that number. And then what comes after that is quite interesting.

So when you look at how much Netflix paid for WWE to be streamed, that is into the billions, I think it was. So that was a 150 million deal for the NFL for Netflix. was them getting just Christmas showings, just Christmas for 150 million. That is insane to me. After that, Amazon agreed an 11-year domestic deal with the NBA. I'm sure you're aware of this little thing called basketball in America. It's quite successful. They pay $1.8 billion a year to stream 66 regular games on Thursdays and Saturdays, and they also get the knockouts that come out later on. That's not every game. That's just those select games. Now,

I know you're getting a lot more games in something like NBA. They like baseball. They seem to play a game every day of the week. It seems to never stop. But an F1 race, as Liberty described it, is like a Super Bowl in every single place we go to. I know that analogy is a bit cringe. But it shows you the impact on F1 race can have. It comes, you know, it's traveling circus, comes to your town, your city, your country.

And I do think that they could push easily for $250, $300 million, for someone like Apple to have the full streaming package for the American audience. I do think it's a growing audience. It's growing at least 10% year on year for the last five years. I do think the amount of money they invested in the F1 movie shows that they're committed to the project. I think Liberty are being fair. I think there's way more money to come from this in the amount of subscriptions that they could get from this project. So you only have to do a quick sum, which I haven't done stupidly, and go, well, even if 50 million, decided to then sign up to Apple, if they were all new users for a price of $9.99 a month, including in that,

That's 500 million a year that they would take out from that project. They're already making a profit. So even if you're conservative about your numbers, it feels like Apple can make great money from this. And Liberty are maybe underselling just how valuable F1 can be in its current commercial terms. Ben, what do you think? I think Apple is an intriguing partner. I can't work out if it's entirely positive, but it's intriguing.

Apple seems to be positioning itself within the sports streaming industry as a bit of a quirky, like, cousin of the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime video. So whereas you've got Netflix and Amazon maybe going after slightly more, dare I say, mainstream, bigger contracts, it feels like Apple is going for the MLS, which I appreciate MLS is growing quite significantly in the US, but it's still a niche as a sport right now. I appreciate they've got a select number of Major League Baseball games, and that's more mainstream as a sport, but there are so many games in an MLB season that it's still not huge. To be honest, we could stream an MLB game on our YouTube channel. That's how many there are.

We have, and no one's ever noticed. They are zero viewers, folks. Please support the MLB. Big up the Red Sox and insert whichever team name you want there. Yeah, I just think Apple doesn't seem to be targeting the big contracts. And the question, the intriguing thing is why? Are they just almost dipping their toe in, working out if it's for them or not, with an easy get-out if they decide it's not for them? In which case, that's not good news for F-1.

Or is it just the case of they're trying to get these contracts, not pre-growth, but almost pre-like peak. That's how I saw it. Pre-growth, yeah. Yeah. So whilst F-1 has kind of flatlined a little bit in terms of its support in the US, we'll see if the F-on movie, you know, changes anything there, it's still on the up, I think, for the most part.

And like I say, the MLS is on the up tick as well. So it's interesting to see if that's why they're doing it. I think Apple could be a good partner. they do have the marketing power, they have the brand power, they have sponsorship, like the tech integration could be really interesting. The one thing I wasn't sure about, I wanted to get your opinion on this, is the timeline. So we know the ESPN's deal is up at the end of this year, and we know the F1 movie has just come out.

Is there a concern that by taking it away from standard TV and onto a streaming platform, that you would be missing out on potential growth because of a move for less accessibility on something like Apple. It's definitely a plausible question, isn't it? You look at what happened to Formula E. That seems to be probably the most prime example. It was growing as a sport. It never got close to the heights of Formula One.

But it was growing. It was a growth market. It tapped into something that was culturally relevant, especially in Europe and Asia, which was electric cars. And that was being streamed on Channel 4 here in the UK. and then on YouTube. But then it got bought by BT Sports, and that then became TNT Sports, and then it got put behind the paywall.

And you saw the fascination drop, the viewing numbers dropped. They tried to recover that. They tried to bring it out. But it's just, unfortunately, falling away. And it's a shame because FormulaE has got sensational racing. It's got great racing drivers. It's got some really great brands involved with it as well.

It deserves support. And that move behind the paywall came at the wrong time because it was just starting to really gain some traction. momentum and it cut the head off immediately from that growth. I think Formula One is a different product. It's such a historic product. It's such a product of prestige. It's been around for so long. And I do think it has solidifying itself on Netflix with Drive to Survive. I think we retain the rights to something like Drive to Survive, even if Apple were to take on these streaming rights, which means it's across multi-platform. America, as a industry, as a market, rather,

are far more likely to purchase a streaming service, I think, than free to air in the UK. and a lot of Europe, I think it's far more common to expect something to be free to wear in the UK and Europe. And I do think that if you are growing with that passion, especially with Gen Z where they are predominantly online, and that is the focus market, I believe, they will be more likely to already have access to something like Apple TV, which means that they will have a continuation of customer. Now, marketing will still need to be employed. They will still need to go, come and watch it or take a discount for a month. They come and watch these three races and do like a bundle deal or something like that. and I think they have to work to make sure they're keeping that audience. But F1 is attractive for a reason.

They have finally started to crack that market. I don't think that Liberty would be willing to move their products from a live on air TV production to a streaming service. If they weren't confident that the popularity of the sport in the US market would at least stay stagnant, it would at least continue at the same level rather than just growing. So they're getting a powerhouse partner to make sure this work. and pretty much in my mind,

it's Netflix, Amazon or Apple. They're the three that you're going to get that can tap into that mainstream service platform. Yeah, I think that it's a risk, but I think it's a calculated one, and I think that someone like Apple would be able to give it justice to that. My biggest concern, Ben,

is the physical timeline of getting everything set up for the start of a 2026 season. Brand new operations starts early than we expected. The testing is far more intense. For North America, overall, are they going to be able to follow that properly if we're having a longer move around and contracts

and the way the broadcast rights are being held less than six months now before the new start of a new season. That's worrying for me. Yeah, that's why I don't, one of the reasons why I don't particularly love the time. There's not much you can do about it, but that's why I don't particularly love this timeline if we were to,

if the move away from ESPN was going to happen at the end of this season. Like, and going back to like the capitalising on the potential success or maybe the actual success, depending on how you view it, of the F1 movie. Like I want to see that. realized, the F1 movie is absolutely on its way to being a success in that I think you've almost got a, you need three things and they've already got two of them. Number one is the critical acclaim. It's done pretty well with critics, regardless of what we say within the

F1 industry and whether we like the realism or not, in terms of how the critical response has been pretty good. Second thing is, it's been a box office hit. Its budget was somewhere between 200 and 300 million. It's made at least 400 million on the box office already. So first time Apple have ever turned a profit on a product? Yeah. It's massive, yeah, massive for, not only for F1, but for Apple as well. So that box is ticked. The unknown box is the lasting impact. Like you want that to result in more eyeballs on your product. And we don't know whether that's going to be the case yet. And I want to find out. And I think you've got a better job of finding out, ironically, away from Apple than you do on Apple. Apple TV numbers are unknown, but viewership

will, I'm pretty confident in saying viewership will almost definitely drop as a result of moving on to there, at least initially. I think the only question is whether it would be by a lot or by a little. Is it the time? I think that is a genuine question. Viewership has been steady over the last few years. I think with Apple, you've got the potential for a move for the global rights in a few years' time, which could be interesting. And I think overall, it could be a good partner, but the timing is a little airy. Equally on the same side, you can argue that the timing being matched to a whole new set of regulations is like a complete fresh start. And it kind of makes sense if they can own that creatively and understand it properly, and they can get the team in place because

a presenter can make or break the show, right? Put pressure on the new regs. Really does. There's a lot of pre-season testing going on next season, which makes me think F1 are not massively confident, but... Oh, yeah. I mean, they obviously did get similarly to last time, but it's shaky. I would be curious to what scene they got in front of the camera

to deliver this, to bring this home. I mean, there's a lot of experience, Hexing F1, but you need to match that experience with actual presenting and that charisma not take it too far to be. weird, but also those who could bring in a fun crowd and keep people active and, you know, talk, they know what they're doing. They're Americans. They go hang up being charismatic. But I just hope they could deliver it in the right way. Well, yeah, presumably they would have to shift what they do right now, because ESPN, as far as I'm aware, just use F1 TV,

their crew, which is all well and good because, I mean, maybe you could argue they're competing against one another, but obviously F1 TV entirely different to the beast that is ESPN. and ABC. But if you were to move onto Apple and the whole F1 TV question, because I think F1 wants to keep F1 TV in the US, it's an hour's confidence. Apple probably don't want that. You're now cannibalizing. Yeah. Apple wouldn't go, yeah, we'll just port your entire team into our team and just call it the same product. It doesn't make sense for them to do such a thing. It's an interesting one. And I'm sure that's not the last we'll hear with, as you said earlier, just a few months before a decision really needs to be made.

We'll take our final break on this episode. On the other side, we're going to be answering some of your questions. Yay, I haven't prepared. Welcome back, everyone, to the final part of today's episode, and we thought we'd close out today's episode with a bit of a... We go mailbox or mailbag? Where's my bag is involved here? Mailbox.

Yeah, we're in boxes on this screen. Fair, fair play. mailbox then. So we've got some questions from, from Discord. We asked a couple of days ago. So if you're thinking, I didn't get the opportunity to ask you any questions. That's because you're not in the Discord. You got to get in the Discord. The link is in the description. Get involved. We love it there. We're just going to run through some of them. If your question isn't answered, apologies, but we are only dedicating one segment to this today. So we are going to rattle through a few. Shall we start with, let's start with, let's start with,

Gear Pazley. Great name. Yes, great name, Gier, who has appropriately asked, Gassley to Red Bull in 2026. He deserves a better seat, but I don't think that's the right seat.

I'm sorry for you, man, he deserves a better seat than Red Bull. Well, if it stays like it is, man, if it stays as it is, maybe it isn't a better seat. You've seen having points he's scored

at Alping and having me the second seat, Red Bull has scored. He's beating it. So anyway, it happens? Yeah, yeah, in theory it can happen. He still has those ties. Obviously, Helmut helped to bring him up through the junior ranks.

If Estabin does leave and they're not happy with what Yuki is doing, if there's two completely empty seats there, I don't think they elevate both Lorsing and Hager. I think their conveyor belt of drivers runs out very quick. So in theory, they need experienced drivers are coming. Gassie's got time on his side. Yeah. I think the only way it happens is if there are two seats.

available and not one. Theoretically, if Verstappan goes to either Aston Martin or Mercedes, that will leave a driver free. And I wouldn't be surprised, if he did go to Mercedes, let's say, and it was George Russell that made way, Georgia, it might be a straight swap. That wouldn't surprise me. If he went to Aston Martin and Alonzo left, let's face it, maybe they give Alonzo. I don't know.

I don't think they do. I think purely because of timelines, I don't think they get the longevity out of the long so that they get out of Gassley. But if you don't, and you are, Gazley and Hadjar or, I don't know, let's say they get Albin away from Will.

Albin and Hadjar, like it's, oh, Red Bull. Yeah, it's a real risk of it being a mediocre line-up if they don't perform. Yeah. I would lean towards it's not going to happen, but.

There is a chance. There is a chance. Indeed. Question from Blazy. And this is about Fernando Alonso. Do you think Fernando Alonzo will ever complete the Triple Crown? And if he does, will that put him in contention as the greatest racing driver of all time? Yeah, he could complete the Triple Crown.

He's shown that... Indy 500, by the way, that's what's needed. That's what's left. Yeah, that's what's left. He's got the Mon. He's got Monaco. Yeah, he could win the Indy 500, but I think he needs to pay it the respect it deserves.

I know that sounds a bit harsh because he did it for a couple of times, but I think he would need to move to Indy. I think he would need to get himself into one of those top two or three teams that are regularly competing there. I think he obviously went with McClaring last time that he was there. I don't. I think they were still, you know,

they had that partnership, of course. Yeah. But I think that realistically he would need to commit to the Indy series. and do it properly, rather than just hoping that he can rock up to indie. And I'm going to wing. I do think there is a slight arrogance with Formula One drivers that they can just go and do just the indie,

just Indy 500. And I think also is sensational. Still think he needs a bit of understanding how everything works. And some of it is luck, right? Your engine goes and you can't help that. Or someone crashes into you, you can't help that. Some of it is just outright good driving, understanding how these cars work.

So do I think it would put him up there with the best drivers of all time ever? No, I don't. I don't think so. I don't think he's going off in Formula One, unfortunately. I think he could do it. If I had to put money one way or the other,

I would say no, but he could do it. It's one of those where he's not going to get many opportunities. I think with the Indy 500, you do have with Oval Racing like a little bit more of a possibility to race into your late 40s and maybe even your early 50s.

So there is an opportunity there. He's still got a bit of time. It depends how much he wants to extend his F1 career, in all honesty. If he wants to give that up a little bit earlier, of course he's going to have more opportunities to do it in the Indy 500. If he continues to search for that third world title, then he's not going to give himself a lot of time. The Indy 500 is tricky because you do need to be in the right place at the right time.

there is a certain amount of luck you need to win the Indy 500. Yes, you need skill. Of course you do. But whereas I think LeMont and Monaco, if you're in the right car, you probably have a one in three, a one in four chance of winning. The Indy 500, you never know when you're going to get a late caution that's just going to completely mess things up. So it could happen. Elio Castronevis won a couple of years ago in his late 40s, but it can happen the other way as well where someone like Michael Andretti, he, he was one of the best in the series for a couple of decades. Never happened for him at the Indy 500. That can happen as well. Does Tony Kingard never won it?

He has, yeah. Is what 50 now, 51? Maybe a little bit younger, but yeah, pretty late 40s. But yeah, it shows you can still race. Yes, yeah. But I do think it would put him in contention for the greatest all-round racing driver of all time. Interesting.

Next question. comes from Solem F1 If someone who knows nothing about F1 asks you to explain it to them How do you slash how would you go about it? I have had people ask me before And it always trips me up

Me too Yeah, I get a lot of this Because people are like the show That we do and stuff like that Oh, I've never watched it I always struggle because it's just cars going around in a circle and in theory it is cars going around in a fucking shaped circle.

Drive to Survive actually has a really good job at introducing the sport in a high octane of a fun way. And I don't really know what I'm meant to say when I go how sell Formula One to me in 60 seconds. It's hard. That's really difficult. Yeah. It's one of those where I don't think you can over-explain it. You've just got to be very high level about it's 20 drivers, 10 teams, and they lap a circuit a number of times. Some of them are street circuits, some of them are actual race circuits.

They're all over the world all across the year. Go and watch the highlights of a Grand Prix. If you fall in love with it or if something like catches your eyes straight away, follow up on it. If it doesn't, it's not for you, like you've got to feel it. Yeah, I play the emotional angle. Yeah. Like, the passion of it.

You know, 20 drivers, it's their dream. It's got to pop out. It's 200 miles an hour. And there is a risk of flying through the air at full speed and flipping. and flipping the car or you might just feel that glory for a moment. In the F1 movie, they emulate the Monsa crash from F3,

but they definitely pair it. The car flips on the sausage gear. Oh, the Alex Peroni one. Yes, yes. But they alter it slightly to definitely tie into a Nicky Lauder slash Roman Grojong S crash where he's caught in flames.

And it's a lot, it's a lot. But go and watch the F1 movie. You know, that's up two hours of experience. You might go, this is cool. Well, you might go, I hate cars. Some people do. Some of us don't care for them. They get you from A to B and that's all matters.

Which is fine. That is fine. You wouldn't be listening to this show if you hate. Wally Beerman, a relative of Olly Beerman, I believe. I assume so. What are the chances we see Mick Schumacher in one of the Cadillac seats next year? So the percentage. 30%, 40%, maybe.

I think there's a better candidate that's out there, and I think Kagalak are aware of that. I think Perez is almost a given. I think he's probably about 80 to 85% chance of signed. I think Bossas is maybe the other shot. But I do think that they will go for the experience in the rookie, because they'll be here for a while. Schumacher doesn't really cover either of those properly.

He's not the exciting young rookie anymore that's coming through. He's also not got enough experience to be the guy that can lead a team for the next two or three seasons while they, embed themselves in Formula One. I think that's where he falls down, unfortunately. I think it's very unlikely that this happens. You think less than 10%? Yeah.

I know it's been mentioned a couple of times. I think they're going Bottas and Perez. And I know it's an older duo, but I just think they're looking to get that experience in the door early on. It's a very solid lineup. Yeah. I think if there was a rookie that absolutely popped for them that was available, then maybe they'd go that direction.

But I don't think that that is Mick Schumacher at this point. It's more like Dunn or someone like that right now. Yeah. And I just think rather than take that there's so many variables, so many uncertainties when you enter F1, I think one of the things they will be looking to just control, have something with a bit more control is the driver lineup. And Bottas and Perez,

you can't get much more experienced than that. So I think that's the way they'll go with it. Let's go to. Lando's Big Tractor. If you could have any driver be a guest on the podcast, who would it be? Well, that's a really difficult question, because the list is long of drivers I would want on there. Yes. I don't know.

Because I don't know if I could choose this one driver I want on there. If I want to talk about history and experience, just listen to their stories, someone like Prost would be incredible to have on the show. I'd love to sit down for an hour longer than an hour. with Prost and hear about everything. Same as Manxel, same as Hill. I think they deliver that really fascinating late 80s, 90s storyline. Of course, Prost goes back further than that. I would have had louder on the show.

Hackey's still being here. He probably would have been right up there. Current, probably either Fernando or Lewis, are probably the two that I would definitely have chosen to really get an insight from. Yeah, I mean, in terms of current drivers with my business hat on, I would say, hmm, Hamilton Vastappan or Alonzo, please,

because that's going to get the most attention and the most views. But in terms of the overall content and like fitting in with what we do, I think Pierre Gassley would be a good shout. It's fun. Yeah, I think that would work. But to be clear, I wouldn't turn down all the drivers. I'd also have Hadger. Just so we can play the song.

Yeah, actually, to be fair, Hajjaro... He would be like, I don't know what's going on, what's happening. Hadjar and Gasli, I think, of pounds, obviously they watch the PSG finals together. They want to come along together as a little duo. They do listen. They are famously very big fans. I send Gasoli a supply of heck sausages after every episode. Yes.

And he sends back a restraining order. Another question that indirectly mentions Mick Schumacher from MLG. what's your most disappointing driver, not asking for the Mazapins, but someone who you thought had really good potential, but they turn out just bad. And Mick Schumacher is someone that pops in MLG's head when he thinks of this question.

Do I have a driver that immediately, I mean, Schumacher is on that list. I bought into the hype. I was definitely someone that saw his improvement season on season, especially in F2, where his first season wasn't great. And then the second season, obviously he goes on to win.

And obviously there's that nostalgia. factor. There is that one to see what happened after Michael to see Mick turn around and you know, it might maybe not be a multiple time world champion, but I would love to him to being a really strong top level driver, a race winger occasionally, that kind of thing. So he's up there, which is sad, really, really sad. Ben, have you got any thoughts when I think of any further? Two names immediately jump out to me. The first one is Logan Sargent. Now that might sound weird because that might sound like I'm just giving a Mazepin answer. But Logan Sargent, had a good junior career, and I'm still unsure why it didn't work out for him in F1.

To be glad, Logan Sargent in F3 matched Oscar Piastri. They were pretty much dead level. I think Piastri won the championship, but they were like single digits apart in terms of points at the end of that season. Obviously, Piastri's gone on to where he is now, and Sargent's been out of the sport for a couple of years. So I still don't quite understand why Sargent was never better than he was in F1. Going a bit further back, Stoffel Van Dorn.

And I appreciate situation didn't help him much. And having Fernando Alonso is your teammate, never helps. But he was such a force in GP2 as it was at the time. And it just never happened for him in F1. The only other one I can think of, and this isn't because it's his fault, but there was such high expectations around him, was Robert Kubitsa, starting so brilliantly.

But then because of decisions made, obviously the crash and everything. I think he could have been one of those drivers. I really think he could have been the guy that sat there alongside Hamilton and Vettel and alongside in that period that was regularly winning possible future world champion. And I do think that because of what happened, I'm not disappointing him, right? That's obviously besides the point. I'm disappointed that we didn't get to see him realize his full potential

because I do think it could have been something really quite brilliant. Last question, moving away slightly from the F1 grid and more to us on this question. And I've sort of put two questions together as they're pretty related. One from a wild monies, which is, what are some tips you would give to someone looking to start their own podcast and from bearded ruggar? What would your top recommendations be for someone who is trying to get into F1 content creation? So obviously, very, very similar questions there from those two.

Don't do it. No, it's really hard, really, really hard. We are still learning. We're still growing. We've been, what, late breaking is what, eight years old now, just over? Yeah, a little bit over eight years old. Right. We'll be nine at the end of the end of the year.

I think. So that tells you how long we'd be doing it. And we have been through, it feels like every medium you can make content in. We used to write articles, right? That's how we started. We used to do only written. And then we did live stream on Facebook for crying out loud. And that was with a part that was with Drive Tribe, which barely existing.

Well, Richard Harmon knows that on YouTube. But that was it. And they were great. They really gave us the big kick. And then they kind of went under. So then we were like, oh, should we do YouTube? And we had some peaks. We had some videos that hit, you know, went into the tens of thousands of, of,

but you know our YouTube channel. I joke about it all the time. We're not even at 10,000 followers on YouTube. The podcast is by far our biggest success. And we are quite big, I would say, as an F1 podcast. We're right up there with terms of, you know, the amount of risk is that we get month on month. You look into sports charts.

We're right up there. But that has come through a lot of sacrifice. we do this multiple evenings a week. Every weekend, we sit together and we do this hours of time. Before we got Kerskiying, we would also then both edit the audio and the video that would go out as well. And it would be a full-time job and hours and hours of time. So do not start that journey unless you have the willing to sacrifice. And we are so lucky that we have families and partners and relationships that are willing to be flexible around that.

Good Lord, the amount of weekends I've said, you've got to block out five hours of a Sunday. Sorry, I'm not free. And that takes patience and kindness. And you've also got to be willing to learn, adapt and grow. But how long it takes us, Ben, to get this current cycle of content that we do now in the way that we plan out the schedule, the way we set out the episodes, the way Patreon works.

That took us, what, two, three years of just podcasting to get that right. It's evolving, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really hard. But the other thing I would argue, alongside that work ethic and doing that side of things, is find your niche. Find why you approach, whether it be Formula One or football or whatever it might be the topic you chose. Why is your content different to others?

Why should they watch you and not Joe blogs down the road? Like, why should someone listen to P1 or us? That's the difference, right? Matt and Tommy being around for a long time, I do a great job. And we don't talk about the podcasts or not on the show for obvious reasons, but they're brilliant what they do. And they have a very great audience and they've been around. They were WTF on before that and they set up their thing.

And God love them, they do a great job. But some people choose to listen to us over them. And some people listen to them over us. There's a reason for that. And you need to go and work out that reason where you would then fit into this sphere that people have. And that's hard to do. Our niches is that we're three idiots that have been best mates for almost as long as I can remember. And it works for us.

It doesn't work for everyone. So you've got to find that out. Ben, any thoughts? Yeah, I think a lot of what you said hits the points. I have sort of three answers to this question that I always lay out and they, like I said, they roughly go over what you've said there. The number one is find your niche. It is find what you love talking about and do it for the right reasons.

Like people will see through inauthentic very easily these days. There's too much coverage. There's too much attention. If you don't love what you're talking about and you're doing it for the wrong reasons, people will see that almost straight away. So you need to be like we were. We just love talking F1 to each other. We happen to also put it out for many people to listen to,

but we would still be doing the same thing if we weren't putting it out to broadcast. We did, which is exactly what we did. Exactly. So you've got to find your niche and do it for the right reasons. Second one is absolutely just stick at it. Unless you are coming in with an audience that you've gained elsewhere, like us, in terms of us,

like we had to start from nothing. If that's where you're, the position you're in, you're going to have to stick at it. It's not going to come overnight. 2019, we had, I was just about to say,

yeah, 2019, we had less than a thousand downloads all year. Yeah. All yeah. So it takes time, but you need to stick at it. And then the last thing is,

don't be stubborn with your content. Keep it evolving. If something doesn't work, don't stick at it for the sake of it because it's an idea you had that, you thought was going to be good. Move pivot, move on. Swallow that pride.

Yeah. Like you try, we've had it before. We still have it now. We try a segment. It doesn't quite work. We don't bring it back. We do a segment and it works. We keep bringing it back.

And it's just keep on evolving. Keep on listening to your audience and you'll figure it out. But yeah, you've got to keep on your toes. There's no point getting stubborn over things. And that's how to make a podcast, folks. There you go on the house. That is funny. I know it's like a blow around trumpet.

It is so weird to me that we had less than a thousand downloads and now we sit on millions every year. That just, the growth blows my mind. And thank you to everyone that listens every single week. It is incredible. Yeah, we would say it couldn't happen without you, but that is literally the most stupid statement of all time. Of course, it couldn't happen without you.

You're the list. You're the numbers. I hate that expression so very much. Yes, indeed. Right. I think that's going to do it for this episode. We've got a Belgian preview midweek, finally back in preview. mode on Wednesday.

And then, of course, all the action at the weekend when Mr. Harry Ead will be back, which we can't wait. Yay. We miss him. He's in holiday mode, having a lovely, well-deserved lovely time. I saved this one right at the end. I don't want to spoil it at the start then. In the F-1 movie, if you could guess one line that they managed to squeeze in whilst

a race is happening, what do you think that line is? Oh, the old switcheroo. No, it's through goes Hamilton. Oh, that's fair. Yeah, they're squeezing in there, and it is, oh, it's a watch. I didn't want to moan too much about it right at the start. But anyway, thanks for listening to folks. Please join us again midweek.

If you want some more content, not at this hour and a half episode, maybe isn't enough for you. Patreon's available. Get down there, subscribe. You get your birthday shout out on the top tier. Tickets for the live show is still available. Thanks for everyone that has bought some. We've had a really good turnout so far. We appreciate it.

We'll see you for that Belgian preview. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hawking. And remember, keep breaking. in light. Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.