The Late Braking F1 Podcast - New contracts for Leclerc and Verstappen

Episode Date: January 9, 2020

Just as Leclerc is announced to be sticking around at Ferrari for a while, Red Bull react by breaking the news that Verstappen will be with the team until 2023. The guys discuss this and much more in the first podcast of 2020. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the Lake Breaking Formula One podcast. the first one of 2020 and of course bringing in the new year with a full house my name is ben hocking alongside me as ever harry eat and samuel sage guys i don't want to speak on behalf of all of us of course but i have been waiting it feels like 10 years since the last one i can't wait i'm buzzed i i crawled into a cupboard and i have got emerged from this cupboard until 10 minutes ago where we decided to once again reform and record formula one's coming back boys Christmas dinner through a small gap in the cupboard. In the keyhole.

Saw in the New Year, a little party popper. Out of the little keyhole. As you can probably tell, our New Year's resolution is not to get more normal. We're going to be talking today. It's contract week, apparently. Of course, we haven't done a video in a while, so we will be looking back at the Leclair contract that happened just before. before Christmas. And the Max Verstappan contract that has happened in the last week. So two of

the youngest stars in Formula One have been locked up on multi-year deals. We're also going to be looking at Robert Kibitz. He has been signed as the reserve driver for Alpha and also Helmut Marco. He's decided to be Helmut Marco. So of course that deserves a look. But first, Charler-Claire, an early Christmas present for him. It was announced that he will be at Ferrari until at least the end of 2004. A massive deal. We were racking our brains for the last time that someone received such a long-term deal in Formula One.

Sam, I want to start with you. Do you think that this was a good move from the team's perspective? Was it a good move by Ferrari? Well, the chocolate acclair isn't melting anytime soon. Let's just say that. Obviously, I think this is a much better move for Ferrari than it is for Charles Aclare himself. This makes total sense from a Ferrari standpoint.

They've got stability. They've got a talent they know that is going to continue to grow and be the face of Formula One. He's a major talent now within motorsport. He's living around for a couple of years at that top tier.

He's already integrated one into the team. I'm a little nervous for Seb. I don't know if he's going to bounce back now. This has been solidified and set into stone. Charlotte Clare is already gel so brilliantly with the Tofosi.

They love him. He won Monsla, of course, which was the first time since a Longzo Man, he should do it, a historic scene. Obviously, I'm more nervous for Lecler if Ferrari never get off the ground. to actually start winning proper races.

I saw a stat that Lewis Hamilton has won more races in the last 10 years, then Ferrari as a team have won in the last 15 years. So for LeCler and World Championships coming his way, he's got a hope the team really turn it around. Otherwise, Ferrari got the stills a great driver who could pull up that car, but I don't think the Clur's got a team that can give him championships that I think he really deserved. So yes, great for Ferrari. I'm uncertain in terms of the Clare's point of view.

Harry, do you think this was a good move to get this locked up? Because, of course, there is the benefits, as Sam has said, but it has got the potential to ruin the dynamic that he and Vettel have got. I agree with Sam. That's not great start in the 2020. Is it agreeing with Sam? I think it's a really solid move for Ferrari, because him and Leclair and Vastappen are the next too, aren't they?

the future of F1, as we saw a glimpse of that in 2019. And, yeah, they don't want him swallowing up. I didn't think he would, to be honest. It's surprising, though, that they managed to lock him in for so long. Maybe that's a bit of naivety on LeClauze Park. But would he necessarily want to risk losing that seat at Ferrari? I'm sure another team would snap him up. But, you know, it could happen.

So he's locked in there for a while. maybe there's a clause in his contract or something that means he can get out of it early if he really has to because yeah it could you know Ferrari haven't been very successful over the last well 15 years as Sam pointed out so it's slightly rescued from the club but it could it shows he's willing to stay with that team

and it could work out really well Ferrari can win championships we know this they've just not been very good with it lately but it can happen again new discovery Ferrari Kang win championships. Thank you. Thank you. Educational podcast of the year 2020. Yeah, I think this was a smart move by Ferrari. I mean, they're sold on LeClair as their future,

so there's no reason not to snap him up for a long-term deal, just thinking of Ferrari's perspective here. If you look at Ferrari's last four years, sorry, if you look at LeClair's last four years, he's gone from GP3 champion to F2 champion to a great season at Alpha Romeo, to beating a four-time world champion in his first season at Ferrari.

His last four years have been stellar. And there's no reason, I've seen nothing from Leclair that doesn't indicate he isn't going to be a world champion. I'm fully convinced that he has got the technique. He has got everything he requires to be a world champion. And it's up to Ferrari now to put the pieces around him. If they can do that, I think Leclair's got all the talent in the world to then go and execute and become at least a one-time world champion.

I think it will be more than one. So if you have the opportunity to seal him into this deal, which is going to last well into this new era of Formula One, why not go ahead and do it? I mean, flipping the question slightly, of course, we all unanimously agree that Ferrari have made a good move here. Sam, do you think this was a smart move by Leclair? do you think he should have accepted a few years off of that contract? Well, I think Harry brought off a very valid point. And once again, not a strong start to 2020. I'm agreeing with Harry now, vice versa.

I'm assuming that his agent will have put some form of major clause in there that says, you haven't won X amount of races, or you haven't allowed us to deliver X amount of championship potential, or you haven't provided a championship winning car by X date, we can walk out of here, Scott three, without anything to worry about. In terms of the Clare's potential, this is a show. huge risk, right? So yeah, as you said, Stella McCartney, four years for the last. And many other stellar around the world. This one's for you. Last four years of his career have been sublime, phenomenal. He's done a great job. He is one of

the rising stars in the world of motorsport, hands down. We are having a whole new breed of Formula One car coming into play at the end of this current season, which sounds incredible to say that we are now 12 months away from a whole new phase of Formula One, but many races are yet to come yet. What if it all goes wrong? What if LeCler can't handle those cars? What if, like Vessel, the newer set of cars don't suit him as well. He likes the older, more robust cars.

You know, this is a Hamilton-dominated era. It suits his style. What if LeCleur just doesn't fit that type of car, and he falls off the pace? And then Ferrari will have to pay out a massive load to get rid of him, or they've got a liability. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen. But there's major risk of both sides from the driver and from the team.

And I'm surprised they've locked it in for so long. A couple of years, 2021, see how it goes. 2022 even. But they've got even further than that. So this is pretty, pretty crazy, especially for Ferrari. Ferrari, the team that don't take a risk, remember. They haven't signed a driver this young for what? 50 years, Ben, you'll know the exact number.

It's pretty incredible that they've taken a risk this far. So, yeah, I'm impressed by both sides for signing onto it. it's a huge risk, little nervous, but excited to see what happens. Harry, do you concur? I forgot what the original question was now. Do you think this was a good move for Leclair? Should he have perhaps pushed for the contract to have been until maybe 2021 or 2022? I don't know.

I've already touched on it. It could backfire because Ferrari may not deliver a championship winning car over the next four years. is. But it's going to be a good move. Because what realistically, even with the rule changes, Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, they're probably going to be the top of the pile still come 2021. So it's either going to be a Ferrari, a Mercedes or a Red Bull.

And you've only done a year in Ferrari. Why would he choose to leave? So, yeah, in a way, it's a sensible choice, but it does come with some risk that it may not go the way. he intended it but as i said earlier and sam's agreed there's got to be some get-out clause in it most drivers tend to have that nowadays vettel had it when he was a red bull alonzo had it too so yeah it's a risky one but it's uh it's an intriguing intriguing move i didn't see it coming i tell you what silly season it's gonna be well dull it's gonna be really good this year yeah they've conspired against

us in that respect um i think this was a poor move from chau leclair to sign such a long-term deal i understand the potential benefits of it, essentially what they have done, they have locked in their future now. There was probably a dispute up until this point. Is this Leclair's team? Is this Vettles team going forward? This contract does one thing and that it absolutely confirms this is Lecler's team going forward. And they can start to strategically plan long term. So there's the benefits of it, but I still think it's a poor move. Charle-le-clair is banking on a team here that hasn't won a world championship in 13 years and hasn't won a Constructors championship in 12. It's a long, long time. If you think, what connects Lewis Hamilton, Kimmy Reichen and Sebastian Vettel?

What connects them is they are the only three drivers that have driven in Formula One when Ferrari have won a championship. It's a long, long time. Most of the grid have not been driving and witnessed a Ferrari winner championship. So who's to say it won't be another five years that they go about a championship. You know, I trust LeClair and his abilities a lot more than I trust the abilities of Ferrari strategic team. I trust them a lot more in terms of developing their chassis and being consistent and being able to compete with Mercedes who are relentless in their approach. I haven't seen enough from Ferrari in the last few years to definitely say, without a shadow of a doubt, they are going to resolve this this year and next year and even the following year.

I believe Charleclair should have pushed for a contract until 2022 or the end of 2021. That then gives one year post the cap coming in. They can see where Ferrari are at that point. And he can go from there. I understand obviously Leclerclair, even though it is quite a long-term deal because he is so young, he will have a lot of years ahead of him even after this long-term deal. But he's still taking away peak years. Whereas, and I'm not saying they're not going to be success.

I'm just saying that it's a big risk from from LeClair's perspective. You can argue it's a big risk from Ferrari's perspective as well. But yeah, I don't like this. I don't like him signing such a long-term deal. I don't think it was a smart business move. And it hasn't been announced yet. It has been rumored that the contract value is about 7.5 million per year. And whenever that is announced, if it is that amount, that is a ranting coming because

just wait, it's brewing. It really is brewing, if it is that amount. So from one contract to another, Max Verstappen, of course, also announced that he will be at Red Bull long term. He is there until the end of 2023 now. So almost perhaps as a reaction to this Leclair News, Red Bull, Max Verstappen secure in the future. Very similar question. Sam, do you think this was a good move by Red Bull? Just going to say that that Charlotte-Clea contract is worth less than my EE mobile contract at the moment. I'm paying a fortune on that. They've got themselves a bargain.

That's what happened. Until 2023, again, you haven't a laugh? Are you having a laugh? I don't think they are. No, probably not. They're spending about to be honest with this. No, they're quite serious.

Not something I do very often, serious. Unlike the game, serious Sam. Don't get as confused. Basically, why would you, as a driver, would you commit that, long, where you were at the top level, where you were at the Charles Peak of your career, when you know that you could command any team you want, pretty other than Mercedes,

due to Hamilton's presence at the moment, and you've gone, yeah, give us another four years. When you're going to a new era of Formula One, you don't know how good or bad you're going to be. Red Bull was so dominant for that four years, well, wait for four years, for two of those four years, and they all dropped off an absolute cliff. What's going to say the same is it going to happen? What's going to say they don't drop behind the likes of a Renault or a McLaren? in two years time. And Bostappen's turned around and down exactly what LeCler has done. I've gone, put pen to paper, no change. He's got to have a massive course to get out of it if it all goes wrong. Yes, it's his team, but I'm nervous for him. I don't know how good an idea

this is going to be. Give it to the end of 2021, reassess, redeliver, go again. I think it's a poor choice again. Red ball pulled a blinder. Why not? But I think for Bostappen, sugar-weighted. Harry, do you think this was a good move for both parties or perhaps like Sam, you think that the team got the better end of this deal? It is another long one. It's not quite as long as Lecler's, is it? And also, the staff one was already signed for this year. So it's only three years, I guess.

Sounds right. It could, 2021 could bring all sorts of challenges. And yeah, maybe they will drop back. I don't see that happening, to be honest. But I think he's been swayed by how well Honda did last year, to be honest. and also I think they're bankrolling his paycheck. I read something that it could be, he might just creep over the 40 million mark per year.

So let's put that one in perspective for the player. But that's obviously Honda. Yeah, it's for Ripple, they had to do it. They had to nail him in because if there is the risk that Hamilton either maybe retires, maybe he goes to Ferrari. I think both are unlikely at this point. but who knows what could happen.

They were clearly worried about losing this happened to Mercedes and because that I think would have been Mercedes, he would have been their first target undoubtedly for that number one seat. So from Rebel's perspective, how to do it, big signing, another relatively long contract as well. For this happen, I don't think it's quite as risky as Lecler's signing was, but it's still risky because it could go wrong. But I kind of have more faith in Red Bull than I do Ferrari, to be honest.

I think they could even be potentially challenging this year, but that's a different podcast altogether. So yeah, good moves on both sides, slightly risky per maxi Vastap, though. I'm going to just quickly interject. I actually think that Bastappans is more risky than LeCler. Remember that Ferrari make their own engine. they have full control over that entire process.

What if Honda suddenly fall out with Red Ball and they've got nowhere to go, no development, no understanding, and suddenly they've got no decent engine. And the Staffing was stuck there in possibly the fourth best team. At least with Ferrari, they know if they've got an issue, they can fix their issue and they all get along. And they shout at each other with pasta. Well, they're all getting along at Red Bull and Honda at the moment

because it's already better than that McLaren relationship. I agree. Maybe it could go wrong. but I read today that Honda sorted out their engine issues by consulting their jet engine division, which is fantastic. I love that. That is cool. Lads, go on issue.

Can you help us? You do jets? That's a great idea. It's the closest thing to Formula One, but we do. So F1. I'm actually with you, Harry, and I think it is a bit more risky. Just because... Wait, what's more risky?

Sorry, it's less risky than LeClaire's contracts. Just because Red Bull will have to cut back quite a bit less than Ferrari will in 2021. This cost cap, and it still needs to be determined how effectively it's ruled over. But comparing budgets, I think Red Bulls is about 100 million less than Ferrari. So technically, you'd imagine they will have to scale back a lot less than Ferrari will. but once again I do think this is a poor move and I don't think Vastappen should have signed this. Contract renegotiation and contract extensions

are about one thing and it's about leverage and Vestappan had so much leverage that I think he's wasted. Probably the main difference between the Lecler contract and the Vestappan contract is what they have left if they're not there. If you take LeClaire out of Ferrari, you get what Ferrari was in 2017 and 2018. You get a four-time world champion

as your lead driver. No real problems. Okay, of course, you'd rather have Leclair there than no one there, but they would make do. They would still have a quality driver leading the lineup. What do you have at Red Bull if you get rid of Vestappen? You've got nothing. Since Ricardo's gone, are you telling me that Albin and Kavilla

or Albin and Gassley are going to lead the senior team? That would feel absolutely no one with confidence. Even you, Sam. No, true. So I think that Vostappan has almost wasted it away there. Vestappan is much, much, much more important to Red Bull than Red Bull is to Vestappen. I know top seats are limited, but as you say, Harry, I'm sure Vestappan would have been targeted by Mercedes. And this seems like a reaction move to the Ferrari contracts, which again doesn't make a great deal of sense.

The Stappar to Ferrari has never been a thing, as far as we're aware at least. but Vastappen to Mercedes has always been rumoured, and they have not done anything yet for their future plans. We don't know if Hamilton is going to go another few years. We don't know if they want to push Bottas as their number one driver. We don't know whether they want to promote George Russell and try to put him in that role as their new up-and-coming youngster. But I feel as if Vastappan, if Hamilton doesn't want to continue,

would have been their best option. So why not wait to see how that plays out? Red Bull are not going to say, okay, if you're not going to commit, we're going to get rid of you. They haven't got anything to replace him with. Max Verstappen has such control over that team. He can wait it out. He's got the power. And he's kind of thrown it away with this contract.

So even though I do think Red Bull will be competitive going into this kind of new era of F1, I feel as if there were more sensible options for him to take. Again, I would have opted for the same thing of 20. 2022 or the end of 2021 and then reassessing. Let's also not forget that Mercedes have Lando Norris on their books now as well. Another name that they can easily call up. So you're right, entirely right. The Stapham could have got anywhere wanted and probably been the lead driver after Hamilton retires.

Mercedes have a wealth, probably the best choice of drivers, and they could have had the Staping if they really want it to do. So you're right. Complete reactionary. Poor move from Max. Great move from Red Bull. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see now how Mercedes react to that.

Do you think, out of interest, Sam, do you think that they will react very quickly to this? Do you think that they will start to put their places, try to push Hamilton to sign a new contract as soon as possible? Or do you think they will just wait this out? I think they'll happily let Hamilton run down to the last day of his contract and have a fair and blunt discussion with Hamilton. Hamilton, I'm saying he's getting along better than I've seen a team and a driver get along for a long time. He will say what he wants and they will respect that. I don't think they'll try and convince him to stay any longer. what is going to be interesting, I think, is if Botas has a poor season this season,

if he doesn't turn it up again, Bossess 3.0, then I wouldn't be surprised if we either see Norris and Russell step up if Hamilton retires, or those two really become the next choice for that second driver. This is Bottas's last year going into the new era of Formula One. Two drivers, Sam. Who's racing for Mercedes in 2021? Hamilton and Russell. same question harry uh i think halleton will stay and the second driver will be

i'm going to agree with san actually i was almost going to say botas but i can't guarantee it'll be good enough this year but all right we'll go russle fair enough i think bossas will be back again oh beg stop supporting him i'm not supporting him i'm just going for what i think's going to happen If Hamilton did retire slash leave Mercedes, it kind of leaves him in a difficult position now because Lecler and Vestappen, the two bright young hopefuls, they're already snapped up. Who would you get in that lead seat for Mercedes?

I'm not saying a Russell Norris pairing would not be good, but are still relatively inexperienced pairing nonetheless. I think in that case, if Hamilton declared retirement before, Bob, Bottas's contract was decided. You keep Bottas on for steady ground for one more year. You bring rustling. You give Russell a year to develop, see how Norris is doing at McLaren, then boot Bottas out, bring Norrising, and then have a Russell-Morris partnership after a year. So you were saying that they would probably need an experienced driver for a year or two?

I think so. Vettel? Oh, I mean, I would love it. I would love it so much. I don't think it would be ridiculous if that does play out that way. That's the title of that video. Said Vettel to Mercedes. Clickbait confirmed.

I don't know if it's going to happen, obviously. I don't think it will. But I think it would make sense. Having sort of maybe Vettel and one of Russell Norris, I think, yeah, I don't think Mercedes would be too interested in completely throwing in two very young drivers. I don't think that's quite their organizational style. Anyway, we've gone on summing of a detour now. Classic.

Other news, other contract news, because we love. love contracts we are actually changing our name to late contract lcc not lab central not central no um so robert kubitsa has been announced as the reserve driver um for alpha romeo um he's bought along his sponsors so a bit of dollar um do you do you think this was a this was a decent move for alpha romeo considering how kubitsa drove in 2020. Of course, unless anything ridiculous happens, he won't actually be racing for the team. But do you think it was a good move, Sam?

There's a lot of positives and quite a few negatives also, I believe, in this relationship. Positive, you're right. Pure dollar bills ringing down on Alfa Romeo. They're like, all that Polish dollar. I don't know what the currency of Poland is. I'm very sorry Poland. Ben, what's the currency? Nocki.

Nocki. They just... Not no key. They pay with pasta over there. Anyway, I think that is a brilliant development for Alfa Mayo. Secondly, incredibly experienced driver, right? Loads of years in all forms of racing. It's very intelligent.

He understands how well cars. Claire Williams and the Williams team have said how well is helped over at the Williams gallery, which is fantastic. So that makes total sense as a development role. What bothers me is that Kubitsa is not up to the same level that he once was. I don't think he's got the same.

in Formula One. Now he's done the season. He's come back. He's done it. I'm also amazed that he didn't go and carry on a career somewhere like DTM, where I think he could bring a brilliant. And I think the cars really suit him. I think he'd be really loved over in the kind of the German motorsports-centric world. And finally, Alfa is such a desirable team. They could have brought any young two of the wealth of sponsors themselves, maybe not to the same level of money, but still money behind them. Make Mick Schumacher, your reserve driver. Get the press. Get all the attention. Get some dollar in there. That's easy. You're going to be the, The essential

retent you for a long time with him there or something along the lines of Mick Schumacher. I don't know. I mean, in terms of developing the car, makes total sense. In terms of money

and press and growing your team's name, I'm not for it. I would have liked to see Kibica go and race somewhere else and then bring a bit of a younger talent in, but I do think it makes sense to bring him in. Harry, your thoughts on the same topic?

Yeah, I think it's for the experience, isn't it? as Sam said, he's, you know, maybe not as quick as he used to be, but in terms of setting up a car, I imagine he's still pretty good and knows his way around it. So in that sense,

make it sensible, he's bringing a sponsor within, which I know Alpha Ramaya, that Alpha Renna are kind of Ferrari-backed anyway, but that's still a small team, so any dollar will help, I'm sure, or knocky, as we're saying now. Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's a bad move.

What happens to Mr. Eriksen? That is his role gone? Yeah, I think that was voluntary, though. I think he spoke about how he needed to be in Belgium, and it completely wrecked up, obviously, is raping overseas. So I think he was just too much for him. Yeah.

Anyway, he's off to go win the Indy championship. Yeah, and for Mick Schumacher, I agree. That's some good press if they had him in there. I'm sure he'll probably do another young driver's test, but I don't know whether he's got a focus on doing well on F2 before he sign him as a development driver. So I think a sensible move. Why not?

I forgot as well today that their line is Ferrari's development driver. Crazy. I completely slipped my mind. Also, Jamie Shackwick now fully signed on again as William's Development Driver. Yeah, very true. And so is Dan Tickson. Yeah. Anyway.

Yeah, obviously Alpha are now getting PKK and Allan as a title sponsor, so I am presuming since their name will be featured on the overall team name, it will be some dollar that they're bringing along or some Nocky that apparently is the case. Yeah, I understand from a financial perspective, this is a decent move. He does bring a lot of experience. You could argue that within that team, with Kimi Reichen and they're one of very few people that's actually older than Robert Kubitser in the world they maybe don't need the experience I had the other one yes exactly yeah so again maybe that experience isn't necessary but I'm sure he will do a good job setting up the car I would have liked to have seen what he'd been able to do in some other form of motorsport but he's got years left so there's still time for him to go elsewhere on on the point of Mick Schumacher, would it have been good to see him?

He might still end up doing an FP1 or two. Who knows? It would have been good, especially for press. And Nicholas Latifie did it last year, and he did it quite a few times for Williams. Having said that, Nicholas Latifie was in what his fourth season of Formula 2 and near the top of the championship, Mick Schumacher has done one season and was about middle of the pack. so it's not quite the same. He's a Formula One driver.

Statement there from Sam and Sage to kickoff 2020, no one cares about Nicholas Latifi. Wow. That is something. And also, it's not just Mick Schumacher as well. You've got Callum I lot as well in that system. And Robert Schwarzen, who is going to be racing in Formula 2 is Mick Schumacher's teammate this year, which I'm psyched for.

Yeah, so. I think that just about wraps up Kubitsa now for final point today. Helmut Marco, of course, just being Helmut Marco, saying that just stir in the pot a little bit, saying that Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes are going to be Red Bull's main threat in 2020. Downplaying the chances of Ferrari somewhat, he doesn't believe that the power unit proficiency is going to carry over. He saw that they weren't quite as good at the end of the season compared to just after the summer break. Sam, you agree with his comments? Do you think Mercedes and Hamilton will be the biggest threat to Red Bull? How can you discount Mercedes and Hamilton? You would genuinely be either someone who's never watched Formula One before. And in that case, I fully respect your opinion because you are unaware of the past. Otherwise, you're a moron. You're a fool. Have you seen Mercedes for the last six or so years? They've been pretty damn consistently amazing. Yeah, I think realistically, Mercedes are not just the main.

threat, they are the absolute holders of all power in Formula 1 at the moment. I think Red Bull are the biggest threat to Mercedes. I think we're right. I think Ferrari saw that massive drop-up after I was a singer Paul Grand Prix last season. Something suddenly changed. Something not illegal, wink, wink. So, yeah, I think Ferrari's lost its age. I think their chassis is poor in comparison to Red Bull.

And I think their engine power is now the same as what Honda is providing because they've got jet engines. So for me, I actually think that Ferrari. could end up being the third best team comfortably at this rate. Hopefully we'll see them turn up in Australia, whether that's the first race or not of the season, another topic to discuss. But I'm a little nervous for them.

I don't think they're going to do as well this coming year as they did last year. Harry, do you think that Ferrari are big challenges to Red Bull as big as Mercedes? We're basing this all on. I know Ferrari haven't been, they haven't won a championship for a while, but they still won races last year, year before 2017. But basically all on that and it could all change again over the winter break. It's not, I mean, it would be a shock, but it's not not happened before.

So, yeah, this is just Marco stirring the pot, isn't it? He's just trying to wind up the Italian press, I think. Yeah, because Ferrari could, we come out of winter testing again, as we did last year, but we could come out of winter testing or maybe out of Australia. and Ferrari might have the fact of this package. They may have sorts of their chassis issues out. The engine might still be mighty. They might be on top.

So it's just, it's just no one's going to talk about over the winter, have they? So that's why we're talking about Marco making up stuff. Yeah, I think it's all. We'll say after, if after Australia, Ferrari are way off the pace and rebel are challenging, then fine. I'll hold my hand up and say, helmet. You got it. right. That was hard to say.

Yeah. I think Helmut Marcos probably come to the right conclusion, but I don't quite agree with how he's got there. I think Mercedes and Hamilton is the biggest threat in Formula One next year. There's no reason to discount them again. They've won six driver's championships out of six in this hybrid era. They've won six Constructors Championships at a six in this hybrid era. So there's no reason to believe it was.

won't be seven. The reason he thinks that Ferrari aren't going to be quite there is because of their power unit. I don't agree with that. I don't think that will be the reason that Mercedes are the main threat to Red Bull. I think the main threat to Red Bull is Mercedes because of who they are as a team and how consistent they are and how they maximize performance and how they capitalize on mistakes from other teams. Ferrari are almost the opposite in that respect. Yes, their power unit might not have been performing as well as it did just after the summer break compared to the end of the year. But even when they were at the top of their game, the likes of Italy and Belgium, they

still only just won those races. It's not as if they won a counter in anything, really. So, yeah, like you say, Harry, it's going to be one of those where we just turn up to Australia and we see where things lie. Pre-season testing, we're not going to read into at all because Mercedes's will do a Mercedes. But yeah, this is going to be one to find out. I think it will be Mercedes,

who will most likely be the number one threat again. Good old helmet. He gives us something to talk about over the winter break. Thanks, mate. I mean, let's not believe that he was being a bit of a monger cock. And I'm sure it will be Jacques Villeneuve next week saying something. So we'll get on to that when it happens. It's almost inevitable.

I think that's about it for now. Of course, we are now on that run back to the season. We've got teammate wars coming up. We've got drivers predictions, constructors predictions. We've got anything and everything that pops up in the world of F1 until then. Sam, do you want to get us out of here? Well, first podcast video of 2020. If you are pumped for the F1 season to be coming back onto your screens, then drop a like, hit subscribe. We're going to be be here quite literally forever. So please get along for the right. It's going to be a long, arguers. I'm joking. It's really hilarious. Good fun. Please get involved. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sake. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late.

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