The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Our verdict on F1's new engine direction

Episode Date: June 21, 2026

Guess who's back!!! Ben is joined by Harry to discuss their thoughts on F1's newly confirmed 60-40 engine split for 2028, as well as the latest questions surrounding Fernando Alonso's future in the sport. Plus, a wonderful chat with F1 presenter and broadcaster, Christian Hewgill. Christian's new book Grand Prix 101 is out soon at all major retailers. Amazon UK | Amazon US Get involved in F1 Fantasy this season! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the Late Braking league⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us... LEAGUE CODE: C6Y6R4ZUY02 Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get:Ad-free listeningFull-length bonus episodesPower Rankings after every raceHistorical race reviews& more exclusive extras!Don't forget! You can also gift a Late Braking Patreon subscription—perfect for loved ones or your own wish list. Choose anything from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking:You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats!Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us!Get in touch any time at [e-mail]  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. And a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Aid. Yay! I've used that twice in a week now. So many sirens. Once for Hamilton, once for you. Well, I am in esteemed company then.

Yeah, hello. This is weird. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I'm Ben Hocking, but I don't really matter. Yeah, well, me. You've seen and heard enough of me. It's all about Harry E today. Hello, guys.

I am back. Yeah, this is odd. I'll be a tiny bit of serious before and we'll carry on as normal. Thank you, everyone, for all the kind, kind messages that you sent in my absence. It was very much appreciated. I didn't reply to anyone and I apologise, but I was having a bit of a break from life. But I did see them all and I saw your messages on the comments of the podcast too. So the love was felt.

And also thank you to Sam, Ben and Kirstie for carrying on the show without me because I was very appreciative of that. But yeah, I'm back. I'm now back. Back for good, as Gary Barlow once said. Take that reference in the first 75 seconds. We're so back. Actually, before we start the podcast, I'd like you, Ben, to tell me a little bit more

about a Scandinavian luxury luggage company. I swear to God, man. We're just trying to make a little. living out here, folks. That would sum up my time away from the podcast is just a Scandinavian luggage company and I have been nothing to do with it.

No, no. Also, you're coming back on an episode where Sam is very busy with his other job. It fuels the flames that there is still this ongoing beef between the two of you. Yeah, yeah. That wasn't on purpose, by the way.

I didn't choose to come back on the week that Sam couldn't do it. But luckily I am here, because otherwise Ben would be talking into a vacuum. Which no one wants that. I like to think you've timed your return because you were just waiting for Antonelli and Mercedes not to win a race,

and you're actually just a massive Ferrari bandwagon fan at this point. That's me. I have been since 96. Just look at me in a Mushemaker fandom. Well, we've got a very interesting episode for you. We've got some Fernando Alonzo and Aston Martin chat coming up a little bit later on. But we're going to start out with confirmation of some news that we've spoken about before.

It's that the FIA has confirmed plans to increase the role of Formula One's combustion engines over the next two years. From 2028, power units will produce around 60% of their energy from the engine and 40% from the electrical system compared to the current 50-50 splits. The transition begins next year, 2027, with a 5% increase in fuel flow. an MGUK harvesting power rising from 350 to 375 kilowatts. This should see the split move to about 5842 and then a further increase of course in 2028. The changes have been agreed by the FIA, Formula One management and the teams. The teams, Formula One management and FIA all agreeing on something. Are you surprised? I mean it's a sign that maybe things did need to change.

if we get agreement from all of those parties. I'm not surprised. I mean, there was a little bit of, you know, back and forth along the way, wasn't there, with some engine manufacturers not wanting to commit to doing this. And I think 6040, the 6040 split was the maximum.

I think right now we're going to get out of them. I'm not sure they're going to commit to any more. But like I said, the fact that they have agreed to do this shows that they know, even the engine manufacturer is no deep down that this needed to change a bit, at least for now. I'm kind of okay with them not trying to jump too far with this. I'm not going to, you know, not go to 70-30 or even like an 80-20. I think that would have been such a change that we don't need to.

I think these are small tweaks that need to be made, not massive, massive jumps. And if something more needs to be done as we get into next year, then fine, we can tweak again. But yeah, I'm not massively surprised I've got to this. conclusion, I think even the likes of Mercedes and, you know, those that have gotten advantage are going to say, yeah, things need to change a little bit. I think the, you know, people like Toto Wolf, he is a motorsport purist. And even though he will want to retain advantage, I think he understands that the sport still has a reputation to protect and having cars superclip is not part of the image

that Eiffel wants to portray. So not surprised, glad that they've reached this decision. And we'll see what happens. I bet you've missed Superclipping chat. Oh, boy, boy, oh, boy, have I? I should have done this the other way around, really. But obviously, myself and Sam have spoken quite a lot over the last few weeks about the changes that have happened this year versus the start of the year. Have you been happy with what you've seen in regards to, let's say, Barcelona and Canada versus maybe what we saw in.

Australia and China. I think so. I think so, yeah, and I still don't think it's perfect, but this is what I'm saying when I'm glad they haven't tried to make a massive leap here, because I think that, to coin a famous phrase, there's something in there. Like, there is something in this formula.

It's just not quite, it needs a bit of tweaking. And I think the changes they've made so far have helped. It's still not perfect, in my opinion. And I think many others' opinions. So I'm glad they've not made a massive leap. But so far, it's getting better as we progressed through the season. So, I mean, it still didn't help Monaco, but whatever.

I mean, Monaco just looked the same. Looked exactly identical. Which isn't a compliment. I was a little bit surprised that this came together. I figured an agreement would happen at some point. I didn't think it would quite happen this soon. it is traditionally very tricky to get the FIA, FOM and all of the teams on the same page in regards to literally anything. You know, there were reports indicating that maybe most teams were in favour of this,

but it was always going to be about convincing those last few holdouts. And it was believed to be Audi was one of them who have very much been on the, we've spent a lot of money to get here and now we're changing up the formula very quickly. And I still do have some sympathy for them in that regard. Maybe the two-year timeline has helped convince them a little bit. Maybe they have some sway on what's happening in 2030, 2013, 2031 that has kept them happy. Or maybe they just realized they were fighting a losing battle.

In either case, I think they've managed to be convinced to go ahead with these plans. They are in a tough spot versus their competitors. and we don't yet know. There's no real mention on cost cap implication here because there are going to have to be changes that are made for next season, but I'm not aware of whether any dispensation is actually happening within the current cost cap or not.

So for whatever reason, they seem to be happy with it. Ferrari were kind of also a bit doubtful on this, and I think it was related to we don't want to lose a duo. Then the adieu review happened. and it wasn't as beneficial as maybe they thought it was going to be. Obviously, they'll still get more upgrades than definitely super Red Bull. Goodness me. Is Red Bull dominance going to bore fans quite possibly?

But also, they don't have as much of an advantage versus Mercedes as I think they were hoping they would. That poor little Mercedes engine. Do you think Ferrari, because they finally got on something, they've got a good car that can now win races? And they're like, no, please don't. change anything. Nothing can change. We've actually got news that there's an upgrade ban for the rest of the year. No one can have them. So yeah, for whatever reason, Ferrari, maybe, because we don't know if a duo is still going to be a part of these regulations or not. I guess they probably

still are. Otherwise, I'm not sure Ferrari would have been brought round to it. But yeah, it seems like everyone is at least somewhat on the same page. Rare. Very rare. I hear what you said earlier about, realistically, we probably couldn't go further than 60, 40 within the current regulations. But do you think the two-year timeline to get it into place is appropriate? Could they have done it quicker? Or is two years about right? I think two years is realistic, isn't it? About forgetting this done, if it was, if we'd seen more safety concerns from this, and obviously the only real major one we've had, so far as that Berman crash from Suzuki, if there have been a lot more of those,

I think this might have tried to be pushed through in a quicker time frame. The fact that this is more just spectacle-based. I mean, based on the spectacle, not, you know, eyeglasses. Yeah, I think that's the most realistic time frame to get this push through because, you know, we're already halfway through this year, effectively.

So there's not that much time anyway to say you wanted to get done for next year. So, yeah, I think realistic enough, trying to get it through to straightaway would have been a tough on, and tough to expect teams to do because, you know, a lot of them would already start to work on next year anyway. Yeah, I mean, famous last words regarding safety, but it feels like we're in a better spot versus where we were in Japan. Like, for example, Barcelona, it felt like if we were having those issues in, turn one, there could have been a lot of those sorts of near misses. And it didn't feel like we had any, apart from ones that were maybe more driver-led in

terms of cutting off drivers that are trying to get the inside or whatever. But it didn't feel like a car was running out of energy and a car behind had to massively do anything to avoid that. So I think we are in a better spot safety-wise. Yeah, I agree. Because I think, you know, Barcelona, you're basically full flat, you know, flat-out two corners before the end of the lap. And if they were having those problems like they were in Suzuki,

then they'd have run out of energy half a down the straight. So yeah, I think the changes that may have alleviated those concerns, which I'm glad because that's primarily what they should have done. And now the further changes should hopefully just make it the spectacle a little bit better. Yeah. I would have liked them maybe to be bold enough to go to 6040 next year, although I do appreciate the point that that might be, There might be one year too quick for all of this.

I agree with what you said that realistically, I don't think there's much more we can do within the current regulation cycle. There are some things you can adjust and tweak, but fundamentally this is kind of what we are. I was going to say make the most out of that. That sounds too negative, but like these are the regulations we've got for now. Let's make them as good as they can possibly be. There are still, I think, a few issues with what we've currently.

got. But I am feeling more optimistic than I was earlier in the season. And again, it somewhat relates to Canada and it relates to Barcelona. I think both of those were pretty good races. In terms of the timeline, I again, wouldn't mind have seen it. I wouldn't have mind seeing it over one year instead because F1 are going to try and say this is going from 50, 50, 60, 40 in two years. Realistically, it's not actually 50-50 at the moment. It's like 53, 47, so it's not actually as big a jump as they're making it out to be.

But yeah, I think over the course of two years, we'll get closer. Yeah, I agree. Anything I would say, I wish they'd F1 and the FIA hadn't doubled down on the rules quite so much at the very beginning of the year and just try to commit to this early. Stop hiding your comments, etc. like there was a lot of trying of you know you know blind to people into thinking this was this was a perfect formula and I wish they just almost held their hands up then and there even in testing and go look things needs changed we can get this through for next year if we commit to this now

rather than like where we're an hour which is halfway through the season yeah in hindsight it would have been a lot better for them to do that you remember all of the like domenicali interviews that he did a few interviews with sort of media publications and didn't come across particularly well in those in hindsight with again having improved it would have been far better I think to do what you just said far better just commit to it anyway yeah yeah um they're not proposing any changes to sort of overtake mode so I guess the way or the style of which we're racing with now is likely to remain are you okay with that I'm very okay with that.

I think, like I said earlier, there's something here. I think there is something good about this formula. And I think, you know, you reference Canada, for example, that battle with the two Mercedes, that's all mainly down to the overtake ability to chop back and forth. So I'm glad they're keeping that the same. I don't think that was the issue mainly. The super clipping, as we said, it was the main one.

So I'm glad that's staying the same because I think for the most part, that's worked and it's given us some good racing, sometimes a bit questionable on whether an overtake was that deserved. But again, I think that's the super clipping, not the actual overtake mode itself. So I think, yeah, I've got no issues without staying the same. Yeah, I'm fine with it as well. And I was far more dubious again to start the year. But I think they've managed to get the formula close to right now with it in that you are still getting back and forth battles, but equally we aren't getting the same. We don't know whether the driver was even responsible for getting the overtake done or we don't know whether these positions

are just going to switch 20 times over, in which case are you really getting that excited about the eighth or the 12th one, because, you know, it's just going to happen again at some point very soon. It felt to me like at least with the last couple of races, Barcelona in particular, overtakes started to mean something. I would still like a little. little bit more on the brakes sort of overtakes. I still think we're lacking a little bit there and there are still maybe a few too many overtakes happening with both cars at full power down the straits, which isn't to me as as exciting, but we're definitely closer than we were. One sort of driver-led conversation that's been ongoing throughout the year is Max Verstappen

and whether he will stick around for these regulations next year. He was previously quoted as saying that the proposed regulations are the minimum he would need to stick around. We're getting that, albeit not completely in one go for next year. So do you think this will be enough for him to stay? I don't know. I, as he said, bare minimum. I reread that interview before I started recording. They were like, oh, so you'd be happy then if it was 6040, he was like, bare minimum.

Like, don't get your hopes up sort of thing. So I think it will be, I think it will be enough to convince him to stay for next year, but I think if he gets to next year sort of in testing maybe, and he's like, do you know what, this is still the same. And I hate it, then I think he might call it. So I don't think this. Before race one?

I think you do a race or two, maybe. I think of the content, man. That'll be so good. For Stamp and quits before race one. But then he comes back. back because again content. He comes back when F1 has V8 engines again. Yeah. I think it'll be, this will encourage him to stick around for next year.

I'm obviously into maybe 27, but certainly next year. But I don't think it's a done deal that he sticks around forever. I don't think this is going to convince him. Yeah. At the moment I'm leaning yes for him being around next year. I think there have at least been a few more signs that he's. he's enjoying it more than he was. We had obviously Monaco qualifying

where I know the race obviously went horribly wrong for him and the team, but qualifying felt a little bit more on the limit, fighting for the front row. I think that will encourage him a little bit. And whilst he has had maybe a very lonely race in Barcelona, he had a great one in Canada, a great scrap with Lewis Hamilton.

So maybe these sorts of battles might convince him to give it a go. It is a tough call for him. My instinct is similar to yours. If he tries it next year and he doesn't particularly like it, and at that point we're already at like 58-42 split, I don't think he's going to go, just got to wait to next year when it's 6040.

I think it's, if he sticks around next year for the full year, I think he'll also, he might just stick around for the full regulation cycle at that point. But I think the biggest question of whether he goes will be, either going into next year or very early in next year. I'm actually going to sub you out for about 20 minutes if that's all right. Oh man, I've been back from one segment and you're kicking me off already. I've had enough of you already, man. What are you going to do you, 20 minutes?

Do you know what? I might have a brunch bar. Man, we haven't had a brunch bar reference at a long time. The Lewis Hamilton of Trophy bars. You know what? Last year I might have said that's fair. But now Lewis Hamilton's winning again. We can't have those comparisons. Not okay.

I'm speaking to a very special guest who isn't Harry Eude on the other side. Welcome back, everyone. As promised on the other side of the break, I'm joined by a very special guest. He is a journalist, a broadcaster. We can now add author to that list as well with his first book, Grand Prix 101, out on the 25th June. A warm welcome to Christian Hugel.

Christian, thank you for joining us. Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you for having me, Ben. And for a very generous description of me in your introduction. No problem. I read it just as you sent it over as well. So it was perfect. Yeah, exactly. I'll pay you later. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. How are you? Yes, I'm very well talking to you the morning after the night before I got back from Barcelona, having done what I almost never do when I'm out at a race and bolted on a couple of days to sit in the sun afterwards. So yeah, I'm very well. I had a lovely time in Barcelona. And yeah, I had a particularly lovely time in the sun.

So I'm well. Thank you very much. How was the weekend itself? Very, very interesting one for multiple reasons. Oh, the weekend was great. The weekend was absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I'd never done Barcelona. I keep wanting to call it the Spanish Grand Prix.

Of course, we can't do that. The amount of times I've done that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I'd never done the Barcelona, Catalonia Grand Prix or the Spanish Grand Prix. I'd never been to the circuit to Catalonia. So I think as anyone who's grown up watching the sport, I sometimes almost get more excited to go to the maybe slightly less glamorous ones.

Because yes, it's all right. Miami, obviously, and things like that, I'm very lucky to get to go to. I think grow up watching that. So actually, I very much enjoyed seeing the Circuit of Castellonia for the first time. And we got a great race, an amazing result, didn't we? I mean, I'm sure you're the same, Ben. I think anyone who works in Formula One podcasting is accused of bias, left, right and center. and I genuinely don't care who wins

as long as it's a good race and gives us good stories to talk about in podcasts. So on that basis, a phenomenal result, you know, brilliant for F1, brilliant for Lewis, and what a story it was.

So now it was a really lovely weekend. One of those that, and I tend to go to about 10 races a season, and that one felt particularly special, one of those really special weekends. I very much enjoyed it. I'm always glad to see any race at the circuit to Catalonia do well again. Sure.

I'm using my words correctly there. Yeah, well done. I've been a bit of a staunch defender of it over the years. And there was a time where I think there was quite a push for it to be gone versus some other European circuits. But the last sort of five seasons or so, it has very consistently delivered good Grand Prix. Yeah, I'd have really happily seen it go in that period of time. You were mentioning go back three or four years.

I think getting rid of the fiddly little chicane at the Insector 3 and opening up the final corner into the sweeping right-handed to get the overtaking opportunity down into turn one and save the circuit for me, because I am a traditionalist. I do like the street circuits, but then I also sometimes get a little bit like, but we've got to have good racing as well.

I mean, and I get the same barometer for the new circuits. You know, Vegas tends to throw up a really good race. So I like Vegas. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, I was pleased to see it do well. I was pleased to see it throw up another good race.

I liked it a lot. A big question that I've kind of been asking people all year is the obvious one. In terms of the regulations and how they've been updated a little bit throughout the year, this new style of racing, are you more on the positive or negative side of things? I'm certainly more on the positive. I got bored of talking about it at the start of the year. That was where I was most negative about it because I follow Formula One for the people and for the storylines and for the for the drama Mick I just love it you know I've always liked I do like the politics element of it but the first few races of the season it felt like we weren't talking about Mercedes rise Russell versus Antonelli it was like we were talking about the rules constantly and I just no interest in it I just got so bored of it so so I'm glad we're now talking about I come on and talk about Hamilton winning and you know the battle between the two Mercedes I love that in terms of the rules themselves I do think

anything's going to take time to settle. And I think the reason the sport went for the rules in the first place was very sound, you know, having good intentions of doing the turbo-hybridges split, wanting to attract big-name manufacturers. Ben, you know, you and I will realize, we'll remember when it wasn't that long ago, when it looked like we might to just have Ferrari,

Mercedes and Renault, was the three engine suppliers, which is just not a good state for the supposedly biggest series in the world. So I was willing to give it time to bed down. And I felt in the first couple of Grand Prix, I thought the flip-flop overtaking was a bit too much. I think the last few races have really felt a nice balance to me.

And then we're adjusting the engine split in the couple of seasons. So I think we've reached quite a good place with it. And as I do think the rules were brought in for solid reasoning. So I'm certainly more on the positive. than I am the negative, and I think we're in a nice place now. Yeah, I think I'm with you in that I've got progressively more positive as maybe some of these adjustments have come in, because, as you say, the flip-flop style of racing, whilst I'm not dead against it,

I do enjoy when overtakes are meaningful. Oh, absolutely. Certainly, I think we had more of that at Barcelona than perhaps we've had in maybe any Grand Prix so far this year. I don't think it was the most overtakes we've had, but certainly they felt like they meant something. I agree. And I actually think Miami and Canada were a pretty good balance as well. I think from there we got the balance pretty good.

I certainly think Australia and China, it felt too easy for me. The flip side to that is, you know, anyone who's listening to your pod who will be aware of my work knows I bang on about falling in love with the sport in the late 90s and the naughties all the time. I also do remember a time when there was no overtake at all. And I've got friends who have discovered the sport in the last one year, two year, three years, who just thought it was amazing and loved it. So we have to evolve. We have to move. So yeah, I think we're about right. But I'm with you, Ben, it felt a bit too easy for me at the start personally. And I think we're in a better place now. It's the sort of thing I like to remind people as well is if you, if you stuck the average fan in front of an average 2004 race,

there would be complaints very quickly. We do... Well, nostalgia ain't what it used to be. Do you know what I mean? We do glamourise that era at the moment, which is my favourite thing of the world when I was the only Formula One fan at school in the early 2000s.

And the newspapers were slating the sport for no overtaking. And we are at the moment saying, oh, well, it was great in the 2000s. Yeah, of course, there were elements of the sport that were great in the 2000s. And to my left is a display cabinet full of cars from that era. So yes, of course, I'm with you. But actually, there was a lot wrong,

you know, and in terms of an entertainment spectacle, it sometimes wasn't all that. And we do need to remember that, absolutely. Yeah, I won't get started on the bring back refueling campaign, because that's another one I'm dead against. Oh, no. And it's just, for a start, it's just dangerous. And I give any argument that brings safety into it, really short shrift. So no, it's that, that is not. And also, you think great big, lumbering heavy cars for the first half of a race is the answer? It isn't. So no,

I completely agree with you. You mentioned that you get to go to maybe 10 or so Grand Prix in a season, given we're starting to get into the European leg now. Have you got some more coming up? Yeah. So I, you know, it felt quite a quiet start for me, actually.

I did Australia and Miami. And then it felt, it felt big gaps between those. Then it felt quite another big gap between my third one in Barcelona. So I'm at Silverston, I'm at Belgium, and I'm at the Netherlands of the European season, I think. I might have missed one. I'm not very good at remembering these. I'm a bit of a take-it a couple of weeks at a time sort of person.

So yes, I've got a few in the European season coming up, which I'm looking forward to, all ones I've done before. It'll be nice to go to the last Zanvorts. Part of me thinks that's a shame that's going. Part of me also thinks. Have you been, Ben? We haven't been, but we're going this year. Excellent. I think in the loveliest way, you'll see why might be time to go. It doesn't feel like you're at a Formula One race. It feels like you're with the greatest

of respect to other series. It's like I feel like I'm a touring car track. It's so small. Like it's very, very small. But it's a wonderful atmosphere. So yes, that's my European one. So Silverstone next up for me in a few weeks time, which of course I'm looking forward to it. It's wonderful. I think, well, there's always a reason to look forward to Silverstone. But in the context, context of this season and the championship, you've got Lano Norris going for back-to-back British Grand Prix wins. You've got George Russell going for a first. And of course, Lewis Hamilton having just one looking for a 10th British GP win. It feels like there's a lot,

at least for British fans to be excited about. So much. And there's arguments, I think, for all three of those winning the Grand Prix. I don't think you can rule. I've been saying this all season, they're struggling. But given the recent evidence we've had of the last few years, you can't rule out McLaren bringing an upgrade that puts them at the front of the pack again. They have improved mid-season so well in recent seasons. It feels a little more unlikely at the moment, I'll admit, but that's a possibility. I think upgrades are going to be key from here, really. I think we saw that in Barcelona.

What really impressed me was the way I've been so doubtful that Ferrari can make meaningful improvements to the car as the season's gone on. They did that. They bought an upgrade package to Barcelona. It worked. So if you hope for Ferrari's sake, they can keep doing that. We know they've got a driver bang in form. There's absolutely no reason if they keep upgrading that they can't win at Silverston. They need a good upgrade, I think, particularly to the engine. I think certainly what helped them in Barcelona is it's a less engine dependent circuit. I think Mercedes have got the advantage over them in terms of sheer power at the top end of the straits in the engine. But as I've said, it's a couple of races away.

Upgrades will be really interesting. And Mercedes is a fascinating one because I actually think if Mercedes are in a position to win the British Grand Prix, the biggest rival for George certainly won't be a Brit. It'll be his Italian teammate because he looks like he's having a hard time being quicker than Kimmy in a race at the moment. So it's a really interesting setup to Silverston. Yeah, I could see it. going any of those ways really. And I think to just mention McLaren as you did at the start of that,

it's, I don't think it's being talked about quite as much as it should be in that you go back to Australia and I can't remember exactly the number of seconds behind Lando Norris was at the flag. It's about 45, I think. Fast forward to the last couple of races, you've got a sprint win in Miami. You've got arguably an undercut away from winning the main race in Miami. And he's right on the back of Antonelli and Russell in the last race we've had. So it feels like that that's a long time apart as well because of the breakup and the Calais. That's the last four races they've been close to winning twice. You make a really good point. And I've been making a similar point on the fast and the curious that we do about not being able to rule McLarenow. Also, what impresses

me, everything you've just said is completely valid. And yet Zach Brown, when you, he is normally his sparkly, bubbly self, he sounds like you'd rather be anywhere else in the world when he's being interviewed at the moment, which I love. It's a real compliment to him because he he's got so used to winning and now he's clearly not enjoying winning and that shows you the standards of that team. It shows you why they've won two Constructors' Championship sort of why they've won

to drive this championship. They aren't interested in what they're doing at the moment. Despite your extremely valid point that they are making progress, it's not enough for them. I like that in a competitor. So yeah, no, absolutely. And I just go back to my previous point,

they have been the ones, the reason they have gone from having such a rubbish car three years ago to where they are now is their ability to improve mid-season. So there's a lot of people at the moment said, oh, McLaren won't win races. I'd be staggered if they didn't win races this season. Absolutely staggered because of the three top teams at the moment, they're the ones I sort of trust the most to bring improvements. Or as you've said, they're doing it this year, albeit they haven't managed to do it to the extent of putting them on the top step yet. Yeah, it feels like it might just be. might just be around the corner some very, very interesting races to come, I feel, in this season.

Let's talk a little bit about Grand Prix 101. What inspired you to go ahead and write this book? Where did the project come from? I've got a terrible answer to this question, Ben. Terrible answer is better than a nothing answer. I've sort of opted for the truth to set you free on this. I was asked to do it. What inspired me to do it was getting an email.

I'm a broadcaster, Ben. I've only been working in Formula One for, well, this is my fourth season doing full-time Formula One. I was doing bits of Formula One in my old job as a news and sport presenter on Radio One before that. But I am a journalist,

I'm a broadcaster, I mostly talk. But I host a podcast for F1 themselves called F1 Explains. And the person who would end up being my publisher for the book heard F1 explains and in a shock turn of events, liked the way I explained F1. And he'd had an idea in his head buzzing around for a while. I'd no idea that this

is how the world of books work. I'm a complete book newbie. That clever people like Ross, my publisher, have ideas for books and pitch them to the people at Wellbeck who make the book and say, yeah, this is a book we want to make. And then someone like Ross goes, right, I need to find an author to write it for me. And he liked the idea of a new author and he heard F1 explains. And we got together on a call and I think you're supposed to sell yourself in these situations. I think you're supposed to go, yes, of course I'm the man to do this. And I said to him, I'm not sure I can write a book. I've talked a lot, but it's lovely and I appreciate the call.

But anyway, no, you can. You can. And have a go. And if you need, we've got people that can support you with it. I didn't want it to be ghostwritten. I said, like, if I'm going to do it, I want to have a go at doing it. So we came up with a, he taught me through. The concept was only that he.

he wanted a sort of question and answer style. So between, as we came up with the idea of like 50 questions, bang, everything you need to know about Formula One, written in the style that if you've been watching or listening for decades, you'll pick new bits of information up. But it's also friendly if you have only picked it up in the last six months a year, two years, a sort of fits both audiences style thing. And he said, have a go. So we came up with the questions. That took quite a long time.

and then people started to negotiate stuff and that took ages. And then about a year later, quite literally, I'm there like, my God, we've been talking about this for a while. I've got to write this book. Okay, so I sat down and wrote 2,000 words and was staggered when they just sort of went, yeah, that's it. Off you go. And it was like, right, okay, I'm writing a book.

And it's sort of every point of the process I've expected someone to go, that's not how you write a book. But it didn't happen. I did write the words. They really liked the words. they put the words, I picked a load of pictures to go with the, because it's a glossy picture coffee table book. And I picked a load of pictures to go with it. And here we are. Two years later, two years after that first call was a book. So it's as much of a surprise to me as it is to anyone

who knows me that I've written a book. But I'm very proud to have done so. What was that, I don't know, that first day like when you did sit down like, right, I actually need to write this. This isn't an area I've necessarily dealt with before. You just genuinely go for it. I'm generally googling like, do I do this on a word document? You know what I'm about this, this is very boring. But when I was working at the BBC, if you're writing a script,

there's a system you put the script in. And even when we're doing the fast and the curious, our running orders all go to a place. And they're like, no, no, no, just a word document if you like or whatever. I mean, a brilliant example of this. Steve Jones, a wonderful channel four presenter, wrote a good chunk of his book on the notes app,

on his phone, on the way back from Grand Prix. And I was like, God, okay. It's literally the old school writing on the back of a cigarette packet, isn't it? So, yeah, no, I was sat there sort of Googling, like, how to, and they were like, you know, try the word settings for this way. So I'm sort of putting my Microsoft word in the right way and then just crushing it out. I'd written before, I'd written news articles for the BBC, but maximum, we're talking

1,200 words, maximum. So a 40,000 word book plus having to pick 200 pictures. to go alongside those was like, wow. But it was just, let's all fake it to you make it, Ben. It's just, okay, let's have a go. And the lovely people at Wellbeck have been so supportive of me, but they've been so supportive and just sort of being like, yeah, no, that's it, you're doing great, this is it.

It's like, okay, right, fine. So I love it. I'd love to do another one because I now have no other can do it because the whole process I've been like, at some point someone's going to tell me, oh God, Christian, that's not how you write a book. But here we are. I've really enjoyed the process.

Good to hear. I mean, you mentioned that the sort of question and answer framework of the book, and it goes into various sections, tech circuits, drivers. Was there a particular section that you were most passionate about getting into? You mentioned earlier that you sort of got into F1 for the people. Was that the section you were most excited about? Spot on. Yeah, you're exactly right.

There's two sections of the book that delve into. I always think you can pick up Formula One as a newbie fairly simply, 53 laps, 22 cars, winner, right? Yeah, fine. But I think I love the history of Formula One. And I really do love that F1 leans into its history really, really well. So I sort of wanted to give some, it's not a history book, but I wanted to give some context as to, well, everybody says Ferrari are so prestigious. Why? everybody says max is a generational talent why you'll hear people talk about center and prost okay what were they good at i wanted to give a little bit of the context and give people enough historical context to maybe get a bit more enjoyment out of watching on a sunday so i there's one chapter which is simply who are the most successful teams in formula one there's another who are the most successful drivers and there's a third which is why a Formula One driver is so special

and digging into the way that individual drivers are special. Your Senors, compared to your pros, compared to your buttons, compared to your Jackie Stewart. I loved writing that. That was really nice to be able to tell the stories of the teams,

the stories of the drivers. And there was one of the section I really enjoyed as well. One of the questions I'm asked most about Formula One is why there are no female drivers. So I enjoy digging into that a little bit and I enjoyed showcasing and highlighting some of the female talent that's been in the sports in the past and is in the sport today.

I think they're the sort of three or four chapters that I've got most enjoyment out of writing. Good stuff. So the 25th June, that's when book is available. We'll leave the Amazon link in the description of the episode. I'm sure you'll be inundated thanks to this very particularly. I'm sure I will. And I'm grateful for you to do so. yeah, I hope they can cope with the rush.

Anything else you wanted to say? Plug opportunity. No, no. So it's available, I said on the 25th of June in the UK. It's also, I mean, it's available worldwide. I'm fortunate enough that a couple of podcasts I've mentioned that I do, people listen to from far and wide, which staggers me, but they do. So if you're listening to this, I'm sure your listeners are the same from various places.

All good major bookshops should have it. So, yes, if you are listening around the, Well, that's sort of my most frequently asked question. I live here. Can I get the book? And the answer is, it should, yes, should be the case. And no, thank you for letting me talk about it. I've loved writing it.

I've just really loved trying something very, very new. I've really loved spending time. I mean, the thing is, I've learned stuff writing the book. I wanted it, as I say, to be suitable. I didn't just want it to be a super simple basic guide for people who've been watching the sport five minutes. I really wanted people who've been around a while to learn new things. And I enjoyed learning new things about it as well. Certainly on the technical side,

I'm not the most technically minded of people, certainly on the historical side of the formation of the championship and how it came to be. So now I loved writing it, and it still slightly amazes me that there's a book with my name on it. So I'm just truly grateful to anyone who thinks they might want to buy it. Or give it as a gift. It's a nice gift.

Good coffee table book. Do you know what I mean? It's a nice gift. So, yeah, Grand Prix 101. Available soon. Very well done. Thank you. Very excited to get into it.

Best of luck and look forward to the rest of the year. Thanks, guys. Love what you do. And thanks for having me on. Thanks, mate. Cheers. Welcome back, everyone. How was your brunch bar, mate?

Oh, my God. At 20 minutes, I had at least three brunch bars in that time. It was amazing. It must be weird as well for those on Patreon that are sort of watching as well, how I am so powerful, I've managed to, and I know we're closing off all of the, the light here. I've managed to go from evening to day back to evening. Have you changed clothes as well? No, I've actually got the same clothes. Well done, hey. Gosh, continuity. You've changed in the two months of bit off.

Yeah, no, I'm just really smelly and I don't change my clothes. They did that interview last week. Fernando Alonzo Astor Martin, let's chat. Let's chat this wonderful relationship, shall we? Do we have to? Maybe not. I've been saving this for when you're back. Fernando Lonser at the weekend indicated, last weekend, I should say, he indicated it'd be his last time in Barcelona as an F1 driver. Do you believe him? No. You think?

No, because, not because I necessarily have this dying belief that he will be here for eternity, although have he met the man? But I just, I'm sure I saw a clip after that where he was on stage, like the fan zone, and they asked him about this. And he was like, yeah, well, sometimes you just make stuff up to the media, don't you? I'm like, well, what are you doing, man? I, look, I think it's probably highly probable that that is the case. But I don't think he's made his mind up.

I think he's just saying stuff. Yeah. Worth reminding everyone, by the way, that there isn't a Barcelona Grand Prix next year. So when he says it might be his last one, he could still be on the grid next year. And obviously, then not take part in a race in Barcelona. Yes. So I think that's the most likely scenario because I don't quite remember the age of Fernando on Zip.

But by the time we get to the end of 27, he will be about 93, I think. So I'm not sure carrying on into 2028. I mean, that's horrendous if he'd be. 2028. He debuted in 01. Like, that's ridiculous to be carried on that long. This is really weird because I was. was having a thing earlier today about drivers who have raced in three different decades in the

sport. Alonzo is so close to have been driven in five. A couple of years, either like 99 to 2030 or something. Five decades. Yeah. So, look, you can never say never with an Adonzo, but I do think that it's highly probable that he'll do. He'll do another year, and asked Martin to see just in case it comes good. But after that, he's going to go off into the sunset. And I'll have to say retire, but he won't retire. He'll draw another things. But he won't be an F1, I don't think.

So I think there is some truth in it. But, you know, what he's like? I just think he's saying things to the media. It feels very likely. This is his last race in Barcelona. And yet, if I had a 50, 50 pence piece in my pocket, it would be staying there if you asked me to bet on it. Because traditionally, it won't have gone very well for you if you bet against Fernando Alonzo and longevity in the sport.

You mentioned the sort of fan zone interview he gave. He also was on the grid with Martin Brundle. No, he wasn't. He was on the grid with Nika Rosberg and whoever did the grid walk with Nika Rosberg. That I've completely forgotten. The presence of Nika Rosberg is so good that you just forget everyone around it. I think it was Rosberg and Corinch Chandok who were doing it on the grid. And they spoke, I think, to Fernando Alonzo very briefly.

And Alonzo was like, and I think they referenced that, oh, you'd say this is probably your last Barcelona Grand Prix. He's like, oh, dang on a minute. He's already walking it back. Do you know, obviously his manager is Flavio Britori, I believe, the school of just denying things you said about a day ago. That's where he's come from here. Quick question.

Does that make Flavia Briatore, Gabrielle Bortoletto's grand mentor? He's like Yoda, Tim. Gavitton Bortoletto. Oh, good. Sleazy Yoda. The worst Yoda in the world. He could still be there. It wouldn't surprise me.

I think it's more likely he goes before then. It is almost tough as well at the moment to say what level he's operating on, in that he is, apart from weirdly last weekend, still out qualifying Lance Drol on a regular basis. How much credit you want to give him for that is up to you. But also we've seen, and you sort of raised a couple of these earlier in the season, when he's got the opportunity to race, and I'm talking very limited on lap one of races.

The king of lap one, Fernando. half in the wear of the time. And he's still showing what he can do. But unfortunately, if he'm at the moment, that's the only lap of the race where he can show what he can do. So it's tough to say, like, is he dropping off?

I don't think anyone could say confidently one way or the other. No, I don't know. And also, I think Kelloggles is in that spot now because there's probably a few things that, you know, I think in Canada qualifying, for example, things where it creeps in. But I think that's just because he's trying, that car was not okay,

but it was a bit better than it has been. Relatively. Yeah. I think he's just trying to drive that car so much for things that that happen. So it's not, I don't think it's fair to be like he's making more mistakes. Anyone will make more mistakes in that guy.

I mean, look at his teammate for crying out loud. So, yeah, give him a sniffing of any sort of, give him a sniff of a top 10. That's so bleak. Hey, Monaco. Yeah, he'll go for it. Yeah, it's not great. And I also just think about this race.

And Astamara really, not that they started very well, they seem to really fall off the back in Barcelona before the two retirements. I don't know if Alonzo wants that to be his last race there. Like that is, that's pretty grim if that is the case. It's quite grim. I mean, it wouldn't be his last Spanish race. It wouldn't. But it would be a sad way for him to end his career at Barcelona.

a place where he's won a couple of times. Yes, yeah. And you're right. We're talking about Fernando Alonzo's F1 retirement here. The guy's going to be doing LeMont when he's 70. I'm fairly convinced to that. Like, no doubt. Yeah.

Any thoughts? Can't wait for this. Any thoughts on the rumours that have been around that Alpine and Flavio Brio Tori might snap him up for a year? Cucci Al-Pee. I'm sorry. again, I know I've been off for a bit, but it's the world gone mad. Why is Alping.

Got Gucci as a sponsor? What's happened? I don't know, man. I don't buy it, man. Like, he's done the, he's done the, that would be his fourth return to Endstone. You can't do that for that. Like, have some pride, man. You can't do that.

But also. But maybe. Maybe. No, I don't, I think, I think that is, uh, Flavio trying to bump up the price of Fernando's final year paycheck at Aston Martin because I don't think there's any realistic chance that Alonso goes back to Alpine because what, yeah, obviously look at it right now, you go, well, Alpins definitely the better bet, isn't it, versus the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, what's he going to gain realistically? Alpine going to be challenging for a championship in 2027? That was their time. I know, but their target was also to win races this year. As he got a podium, then he didn't and now he's got it again. That's as far as they've got. Flavios count out as two. Yeah, it's two podiums.

That makes it a win. No, I don't see this happening. I think this is more of a bargaining tactic, just those rumors floating around. I think Alonso, despite how poor this year is going, I think Alonzo, when he signed for Ashton Martin, was set on this being his final team. and he can swan off into the sunset with a lovely ambassadorial role. He can go off to WEC and drive there for them. So, yeah, I'd be, I've been surprised before by Fernando Onzo's career moves,

but I'd be really surprised if he decided to go back there again for one final hurrah. Because I just don't think, it's not like it's Ferrari or Mercedes to come knocking on his door, because he's out of there in a split second if that happens. But this is Alpine. You're going on a promise of maybe something's okay. And he could say Aston and it could still maybe be okay. So I don't see why I believe that. Because the afterlife after Aston Martin versus Alpine

is probably better Aston Martin, I'd say. I'd completely forgotten about this until you just mentioned Mercedes. I saw a quote that was resurfaced the other day regarding Fernando Alonzo when he was asked about a move to Mercedes. maybe in 2023, and his answer was when Aston Martin

were doing quite well. Oh, yeah. Why would I go there? Which, to be fair, at that point, you knew, because Fernando Alonso is cursed when it comes to being

in the right place at the right time, that Mercedes were going to be great, but it's just, yeah, I saw that one resurfaced. I think in regards to Alonzo and Alpine part four,

there's something that feels, I can't deny, there is something that feels very right about it because of how utterly stupid and wrong it would be. It's almost too fitting in that it wouldn't make sense for Alonzo because you're right. Alpine are in a better spot right now than where Aster Martin are. Even over the course of the next year, I'd still hedge my bets on Aster Martin rather than Alpine. Because while I was short, Alpina, maybe the fifth fastest car, the gap between fifth and fourth, or the gap between fifth and third, is huge right now. So I don't actually think going to Alpine is massively beneficial in that regard. You're right about ambassadorial roles,

or whatever that would look like afterwards. They're far better for him or Astor Martin than they would be. Alpine ambassador, unfortunately, isn't a title and doesn't hold any prestige whatsoever. Gucci, Alpine, come on. Well, Gucci, yeah. You have a point. I'd still back Adrian Nui over anyone at alpine i'm afraid the janitor alpina is designed the car quite possibly but honestly for alpene as well i don't think it makes any sense for them

in that they've got gazley is sort of a locked in slightly longer term option they've been through some difficult times with colopinto to the point where now it's starting to look better it would again be quite alpine to wait for it to get better before then getting rid of him

but I don't know. And they've got two potential upcomers in F2 as well. So I don't actually think Alpine, because I don't believe they will be in a championship opportunity spot next year, it doesn't actually make sense to hire someone on, Alonza or anyone else,

on a one year, like, for hire kind of driver. There's no value in it. I think the only move that he can make is go to racing balls and full circle this, be. Let's do it. And then get Paul Stoddart in to run the teeth.

You know what? I was wondering, what's been missing from podcast over the last couple of months? Paul Stoddard references. That was it. Pick up Stoddy. Come on. Man's still on the Australian podium for 2002. Hasnard left.

Dining off it for 20 years. In terms of moving away from Alonzo and towards the team a little bit, Astor Martin obviously not really been focusing on smaller upgrades to this point, very much focused on one big upgrade that looks like it might be coming in and around spa, possibly, a few races time. Do you think there is a chance of any sort of turnaround given Astor Martin have been maybe almost waiting for this one big upgrade? There has to be a turnaround because there's nothing that you can bring

that will make that car worse, right? So there has to be a turnaround. Look, I think people who are thinking this is going to catapult them to the top end of the great, that's completely ridiculous. It might just put them on a playing field. But even then, get a car that's on a level playing field with even the midfield. And Fernando will start drilling into ridiculous performances during the races. So does this end up being a brand new car, basically?

I think so. I'm pretty confident they'll bring in. entirely new-looking car. It's almost going to be like when occasionally back in maybe the early 2000s, you actually carried a car over from season to season, almost put a B spec on it. I feel like you asked them, might as well do that with this car. AMR 26B, I think is what we're looking at here. I think that's entirely what it will be.

And I agree with what they're doing here. And I think they've got Alonzo bought into it in that what's the point in putting lots of small consistent upgrades on this part of junk each race let's abandon that and use all the resource to make basically a new car and a new engine because it can't be any worse if they turn up and it is as bad obviously that's terrible news but I don't think they've lost anything necessarily in that so

I think it will certainly improve things for them I was I was going to reference 2022 now their position in 2020 wasn't as bad as it is now but they started off 2020 with the last set of regulations pretty poorly. That car was not good at the start of the year. And the Alpine was, which Alonzo was driving. By the end of the year, we've got Vettel in the Aston Martin and Alonzo going side by side over the finish line in Suzuki.

Ashton got their way back up to that end of the grid. And obviously then 23 speaks for itself. So whilst they, it's been terrible for the start this year. and I'm not expecting them to jump up to the top. There's a lot of resource. There's a lot of clever people in that team. They've got it wrong so far, but I think there's perhaps reason to have a little faith

in them being able to make up some time. Just need a little bit of George Michael. A little bit of faith, yeah, exactly. Yeah, this could actually be in terms of the number of parts that are being upgraded, like the biggest upgrade of all time. I'm not saying it's going to work, but I do genuinely think this might be a brand new car that they're bringing because bets on it looking exactly like a Mercedes or Ferrari. Pink Panther Racing Point, welcome back.

It's been a clear plan from Astor Motin this year not to upgrade, make small upgrades on the car knowing that it's not going to get them close to their objectives. And whilst we've mocked them a little bit throughout the year for that, in all seriousness, it's understandable. And I do agree with what they've been doing. I actually, my life's interesting, folks. I went back through all of the, I forget what they call them, where the FIA basically publishes all of the upgrades for the upcoming race.

And I went through all of them for the year, just to see how many upgrades Aster Martin have brought versus some of basically all the other teams. So top of the list is Ferrari. They've brought 25 upgrades so far this year. You've then got Red Bull and McLaren on 21, Cadillac on 19, Racing Bulls 15, Williams 14, Mercedes, Hasse, Audi and Alpine have all brought 12. And then Aster Martin, who have brought six. And it's a clear plan.

They're not doing the same thing as Cadillac, who are clearly just at the moment, how can we improve this car by one-tenth? How can we improve this car by two-tenths? Astamana thinking big, like, can we improve this car by a second? Because that's the only thing that's really going to get them closer to the midfield. But I understand the plan. Whether it will work or not, who knows? When it will be ready, that's another thing we don't really know yet.

But it's only a few races away, possibly. Well, we'll have to see how they go whenever those upgrades brought in. But also for how they do in Austria in seven days' time. Austria, by the way. And we'll mention this in the preview as well. Whilst there will, as always, be a race review for Austria, there's not going to be a qualifying review, which I appreciate is a bit of a rarity. It is with good reason, though, I'd like to say. I think fair. I think is also, it's a little embarrassing given that I'm back, this is my first episode back and I'm basically demanding that we can't do a call-of-line review. And yeah, ladies and gents, it's, it's

nice stag do that weekend. So we wouldn't be in any fit state to record a podcast anyway, I'd say. We're thinking of you, really, when we made this decision. But we are actually as part of it, and Sam and Ben, obviously, there. We're going to go karting, so that kind of counts as something motor sport related. We'll find somewhere to watch, Coley. Maybe we'll find a way to give our thoughts, but it won't be a podcast format. Yes, yeah. Maybe, yeah, it'll be your expectations for that one.

But race review will be as normal on the Sunday and power rankings for those of you on Patreon on the Monday. Let's take a quick break. On the other side, we've got a topic that I haven't got a good name for. Welcome back, everyone, to the final part of today's episode. We thought we'd end with a lovely game of, from a scale of 1 to 10, how likely do you think these things are? Which, as a working title, I think is great.

You got a jingle for it, mate? That was the jingle. I'm so sorry What was the jingle you and Sam We're trying to come up with the other day for What was the Don't worry Can't remember

It's been a long couple of months I don't remember Yeah we're just going to run through some potential scenarios They all relate to this season And we've for those of you watching on Patreon We've actually got our whiteboards ready for this one So we'll be giving our thoughts out of 10 Scale of 1 to 10, how likely these scenarios are.

Starting with both McLaren drivers to win a race this year. We're just talking Grand Prix victories here. Obviously, Landon Norris technically is a sprint win already. Gosh, my pen's running out. So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it both McLaren drivers win a race this season? Can I check 10 being? the most likely.

10 being the most likely. Okay. We're fairly aligned here. So you've got an eight and I've got a seven here. So you think it's fairly likely that they at least both win one race? I think so. I mean, I know it doesn't count, but Landers claimed a victory in a sprint race. So I think, you know, after Miami, you could say he probably should have won that one, too.

So the McLaren has got some pace. It's not fully there. yet and it certainly is better at some tracks than others, but it's a long season. They'll keep bringing upgrades. I think they'll get closer as we go through. So I would be confident to say that they both they both Naba victory at some point.

Yeah. And, you know, Barcelona wasn't too far off. Piastri, when it comes to Japan, wasn't too far or five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does feel like they're getting closer. And an excellent point raised by Christian in the last segment that was definitely 10 minutes ago. I agreed.

Zach Brown doesn't seem particularly happy at the moment, but that being essentially a good thing that he wants to win, and the fact that he's not winning right now doesn't sit well with the team. So, yeah, I think it's more likely than not that they both win a race. Second one up, the mid-season driver swap. So we're not just talking about, you know,

if one, if there's one race, for example, someone's subbing due to injury or ban or whatever, but an actual replacement mid-season of any driver on the grid. That's a terrible noise from my wife, what that? Okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it we get a mid-season driver swap? Oh. We're fairly aligned again.

You're just going plus one, whatever I say, basically. So I've got a 2 out of 10, not very likely. You've got a 3 out of 10, not very likely either. I'd struggle to know where it would come from right now. I would too. The only one that gives me a little bit of nervousness is our good friend Valtry Bottas. Yeah.

He's me. I think it'll be okay. I don't think Cadillac are ready to do that, but you need to be a little bit better Valtry because Colton Herta is, I mean, he's there always, but... Needs the super licence points to be fair. He needs a super licence.

That's what I mean. I mean, that could be the only thing holding them back. But yeah, but I think Bottas's performances, by his own standard, he will not be that happy with. I think he's had some bad luck along the way. But that's the only one that I can really think of that would possibly do that. But given how new Cadillac are, I'd be very surprised if they did. Yeah, I think as well with Barcelona, like it looked a bit better from Bottas's side.

I think he was only two attempts away from Perez in qualifying. And he was, he did have quite a few older parts on the car based on, the brakes completely failing in FP3 on him. And in terms of the race itself, I think that car was kind of messed up from the start. So I think it was difficult to compare the two of them in that Grand Prix. Perez is definitely the better of the two so far this year. But based on where they are right now, they just need to focus on getting closer.

But it doesn't really matter who your two drivers are. They've just got to help whatever way they can to get a more competitive car. And it feels like the years of experience across both drivers, you stick with that at least for the year, right? Well, exactly. There's no, again, I know he can't because he doesn't have the license points, but putting a rookie in like a Herta, but that's getting you nothing right now, because Hurtle will just run around the same places as the BOTS is it doesn't really matter. Yeah. The other, of course, that I'm not worried about at all because Iokamatsu has come out and said there's no chance it actually happens, is Esteban Okon, and I am holding Iokamatsu to his word. You're going to find him if he does something. He knows what will happen if something goes wrong. to Esty bestie, you know.

Good Lord, I don't need that. No, no, you've got to get that. I'm offsy in two months. Okay, next one up. A scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it we get 24 races this year? Okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it we get 24 races this year? We can't see that. Now, this is where we're different.

So you've gone with a 7. I've gone with three. You reckon they'll push this through? I do. My only hesitancy is that I don't actually necessarily think we'll get to 24. I think we'll get it's 23. Okay. Yeah.

That's where I'm, I think we get 23. I think they'll try for 24, which is why I'm kind of confident in it. I just don't think we've gotten the time nor places to go in the winter. Do you think it's Saudi and? Bahrain that they try and essentially get back on the calendar? I could see them, I could definitely see him trying to get Bahrain back on the Canada. Obviously, it's very new, but world events appear to and maybe calm down a little bit.

So if we're getting towards touch words. We'll see. We'll see. Hey, I saw the man. He was signing a piece of paper in the Palace of Versailles today. So believe it. You could have told them out. But, yeah, by the time you get to the end of the year, maybe things

have settled down a bit more. So I think they will try it. The only thing I was thinking, maybe they'll try a Bahrain and they'll try like a Port-a-Mal but somewhere earlier in the year. But what, I don't know. That's the thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if they push Abu Dhabi back a week because I think at the moment it's maybe the 7th of December or something like that. So they could in theory. Christmas Eve race. Yeah, yeah.

Boxing day race. We haven't had one of those since like 1965. Let's get that in. Hey, I mean, it'd be quite fun, wouldn't it? Boxing Day podcast. Oh, wow. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we get 23, because I think they will try and at least shoe home one of them in.

My concern is, and I've mentioned this a couple of times before, is the other date that they're kind of looking at is, I think early October, so either side of the Azerbaijan race, I think it is, which is a very similar time of year that we went to Qatar a couple of years ago, and that famously didn't go very well. badly. Yeah.

We'll see. Next one up. Cadillac scores a point. You're not going to be able to see this. I might just have to put a finger up. Okay, great. Or more. Yeah, who knows?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it? The Cadillac score a point this season. I've gone with six out of 10. You've gone with one. One. It's not happening. I don't think it's happening. I don't know.

It's no disrespect. I disrespect them. I know, look, they were close in Monaco, but Monaco was a bit of a wreck fest slash penalty fest. Maybe somewhere like a Baku, but if we're going to do it on pure pace, I just don't think it's happening. So, and that's no disrespect to them.

It's year one. They're just not going to, they're just not there yet. I, on pure pace, I'm with you. I don't think it's happening on pure pace. The only reason I'm more confident is, I think with reliability the way that it is at the moment, we might get another Monaco-esque situation, in which case they might be able to steal a point from somewhere back, who as you mentioned, is maybe the most likely of the lot. But you never know when we might get, I'm still waiting for these cars in wet weather, for example, because that could be interesting

in which case that might be something Cadillac can take advantage of. Last one. On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it right now that Kimmy Antonelli wins the driver's championship? Ooh, okay. I've got a number written down. I don't know if I'm happy with it. I've prepared my fingers.

We're clipping that. Okay. On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it that Kimmy Antonelli wins the driver's championship? I have gone with seven out of ten, and you've gone with nine out of ten. So very, very, very likely. I, look, this has been said already,

but I know he lost points in Barcelona, but it's when he passed Russell. I'm just like, oh, it might be over, lads. The only thing I could really see, things change a lot. It's long season, obviously. and I'm not doubting George Russell here at all. He's a super old driver, but just that overtaken itself spoke volumes.

The other thing, other factor which has thrown me off a full 10 here is the old goat himself, Louis Hamilton, just sort of... Oh, hello? Let him know you're there. One of those shots that you have in the first few minutes of a football game. You're not going to score, but just want to let the keeper know that you're there. Yeah, give him something to think about. So that's Lewis Hamilton right now. And my faith in Ferrari is less than it is Louis Hamilton.

So who knows where they get to? But yeah, for the most part, I think given that car that Mercedes has and the pace of Antonelli, I think I trust him to get the job done. Yeah, I probably should have gone eight out of ten rather than seven. But I, it's just, there's a looming Ferrari that, again, I'm not being overly optimistic about. But you never know. I was very tempted the other day to put a bet on after Lewis Hamilton won the

Barcelona Grand Prix of putting a bet on Charle-Cler to win the Drivers' Championship at 81 to 1 odds. Kind of screamed out to me a little bit. I mean, why not, mate? Ferrari, that's why not? That's why I didn't do it. I don't point. Well, at least my driver's champion prediction

is not the Charlotte Elbe. I can't believe there is a very good chance we are two years in a row, all three of us, not going to be able to pick the driver's champion. Because you've got Leclair, Sam's got Russell,

and I've got Vastappen, and it's not looking good, folks. Chief is not looking good. No. Well, good news is, Harry, that you're back for this episode. Oh, no. Easy back and gently.

With an outro. I'll tell you what, our outro is done for us here. I don't know if you've noticed the last couple of months. The growth on Facebook. It's popping off on Facebook. My work here is finally done. I know. Facebook popping off.

Yeah. Unbelievable scenes. So if people want to follow us on Facebook at Late Breaking F1, you can do so. or other more conventional social media platforms are out there as well. Instagram and TikTok, of course. Went over 15K on Instagram as well. There's no Facebook, but it's not bad. Hey, that's pretty good.

There's been some banging reels on there lately I've seen. And we need your reaction to reaching 10,000 on YouTube. Oh, my, I can't be able missed it. Yeah. We did it before Silverstone. And that is all the matters. And we meant this year. We meant Silverstone 26.

Hey, we never specified a year. And if anyone comes for us for that, then that's on them. We never did. We've already mentioned Patreon a couple of times in the episode, but if you do want to subscribe, you can do so via the link in the description. Plenty of content on there going on all throughout the month, bonus episodes, power rankings, historic race review. The 1998 British Grand Prix review is up for those of you that are already on Patreon.

We had a good fun review in that one. I listened to it, mate. It was good fun. It was good fun. to listen to the little Frenchman Sean a Lazy the Little Frenchman

yeah oh good yeah I would recommend going to listen to that because as someone who wasn't on it I enjoyed

and we'll be back of course for our Austria preview on Wednesday but until then I've been Ben Hocking and I've been

Paul Stodart and remember keep breaking late I've broken my own rule it's a Sunday I don't care Paul Stod up