The Late Braking F1 Podcast - OVER and UNDER performing drivers of the season so far!

Episode Date: June 11, 2023

Sam is back and joins Ben in sharing their top 3 overperforming and underperforming drivers of the season so far. They also discuss the F1 calendar with Kyalami reportedly unlikely to go ahead in 2024 giving Spa another year, and the news that ESPN are providing an alternate telecast with Will Arnett and Daniel Ricciardo on commentary. The full trio will be back to preview the upcoming Canadian GP next week! >> If you have a spare 5 mins, we'd greatly appreciate your thoughts/feedback so we can ensure our content is tailored to what you enjoy. You can find the SURVEY to complete here: https://rb.gy/uym99 SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: https://fantasy.formula1.com/en/leagues/join/C3CCEW8P704 TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ EMAIL us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Hello, and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. Sam's back. Hello. I mean, you seem to have driven Harry away, but you're back. Yes, get rid of that little menace.

Although I was reading through some of the feedback because we put out a survey. bending a great job, but to get a little survey where you can give feedback on the show, how we improve, what you enjoy, what you'd like to see more

of, the links in the description. Give it a look. We appreciate it. And I saw that someone said, get Harry to talk more. He thrives in these only two-person situations and how I feel guilty

that I've immediately booting him off the show again. But someone did also comment saying, you guys suck, bring back Sam. So here I am. Hello, miss you all dearly.

So, yeah, we did address at the end of Wednesday's episode that it would be you subbing in for Harry. Harry did want to make it clear that there isn't anything going on between the two of you in terms of, you know, actually behind the scenes hating each other. So we are back as a three for the Canadian preview. That is locked in. And if it doesn't happen, you can complain to me. But that, that is going to happen. Yeah, you'll just suddenly, I don't know, have narcolepsy and sleep the whole way through Wednesday. And now we'll just

miss you for the hunt again. It just be two of us again. There's a, there's an evil word. against us that doesn't allow us to have actual three on three. Exactly. I think we're back to something a bit more regular for the rest of this month now. So you can enjoy all three of us, stupid idiots. But you've already done my job, Sam, because I was going to say complete our survey, but you've already done the plug. So I'm becoming more and more redundant by the day on this episode. But let's have a look at what we're talking about today. We're going to be talking about ESPN offering an alternate telecast with Daniel Ricardo and Will Arnett providing commentary our thoughts on whether that will work or not.

A bit of chat on the 2024 calendar, whether Kailami will or will not make an appearance, spa, still up in the air, whether that's going to be there. So our thoughts on both of those tracks. But we're going to start today's episode with looking at our overperformers and underperformers from the seasons so far. So we're going to split this down the middle. So we're going to do overperformers here in this first segment. We'll look at underperformers in the second segment.

So if you're looking at the entire grid, it's not necessarily who's been best or who's been worst, but if you're looking at drivers that have done better than you thought they would, Sam, where would you start with the overperformers? I'm going straight in with our little Hall of Famer, Yuki Sanoda. I mean, we absolutely, we slated him big time in the preseason. We gave him a lot of ultimatums. We sat there and said he's not doing the job well. If he wasn't in, you know, Alpha Tauri, then the chances are he would get booting off.

much quicker than he has. He's causing a lot of damage. You know, he's forgotten where to break. He's forgotten what breaks are at many points. And we said, you know, you can't just keep performing in the first Grand Prix and the last Grand Prix, probably in some form of an Arabic nation that has a desert that surrounds it. You have to do the job elsewhere. You know, it can't be a weird CV criteria that you keep ticking that box. You've got to perform on a day-by-day basis. And you know what? He's come out the blocks this season. And good Lord, is he performing on a day-by-day basis. And you saw the emotion on its face when he got that bizarre penalty blunder at Spain that knocked him out of the points paying positions where he drove so well in that alpha towery he really pushed it up the

order and he was of course removed from the points because of the incessant with joe guang you not leaving the space which a lot of people came out and said it was very harsh for a lot of people obviously on the other side said that you know if max for stappen had done it the the whole world would be an uproar that he hadn't left a car's whip so maybe i i haven't i put my hands out I haven't listened to the review. What did you say about it? Both of us thought it was a harsh penalty and we wouldn't have,

wouldn't have had it. Yeah, I agree. I came to that conclusion as well, but I think it was a little bit harsh. No damage, run off was used properly. I know we don't judge penalties based on the effect afterwards,

but it all seemed very kind of fair and decent. So I thought that was, you know, unfair on Yuki. My point being here is, he is elevating a car that I would argue is pretty much the slowest on the grid into almost points every single racing. In regards of the type of track, it could be street circuit, polished actual track.

He is delivering. And it's so good to see that it looks like he's finally found that confidence, that ability to drive these cars, how they should be driven. He's really started to hone his skills in. And if he keeps it up, you never know. There might be a little bit of a difficult decision to make for the Red Bull guys later on when Perez comes to step aside eventually as to who should take that second seat next to Max Verstappen because there's a lot of candidates going through, but Yuki's definitely doing the right

stuff right now to put his name in the hat. Really surprised he's overperforming. Yeah, I also have Yuki Sonoda on my list. A few points that I wanted to touch on, firstly, the fact that he has two points this season does him such a massive disservice to how well he's driven. At the moment, let's say, let's say Nick DeVries pulls an eighth place out the bag in the next race in Canada. Nick DeVries is beating him by two points, which wouldn't feel fair given what we've had for the rest of this year. Sonoda has been, has been very good. And to your point, it's the consistency that he never had previously. But all the time, he is, he is 10th, he is 11th, he is 12.

And he very rarely, I think apart from Monaco, where he finished 15th, and again, he was fighting in the top 10 for a a long part of that race. He has been in that 10th to 12th mix pretty much every Grand Prix apart from that. So, yeah, the consistency's been really impressive, deserves more than just his two points. I have to say, I mean, his performance at Saudi Arabia was very good. If we're picking out individual results, he deserved more than what he got there, I think. But just imagine, just imagine, 2023 Yuki Sanoda in the 2021. Alfatari. It just feels like the further he's got into his career and the better he's got,

the worse his car's got, which isn't doing much for him. But we know how well Gazzley did in Sonoda's debut season. Just imagine if we were saying 2023 Sonoda in that car would have been much more competitive in my opinion. I also feel like Sonoga is a real victim of this era of Formula One where reliability and DNF seemed to be so scarce now, so few and far between, that, you know, in most other seasons, if you could put Sanooga in his exact form, exact ability a decade ago, the amount of times that he could pick up a seventh, a sixth, a eighth, a ninth, you know, already this season because there were more reliability DNFs, there were more collisions that happened around the track.

You look across Spain and Monaco, the DNF ratio is minuscule in comparison to what we've seen over previous season. So I do think he's falling foul of. people actually being able to finish Grand Prix. Maybe it's because UK used to be the person that didn't finish Grand Prix. And now he is. Who knows? He's doing a very good job.

It's a shame he hasn't scored more points. Yeah. To your point, you're definitely right in terms of the reliability factor. Think about Australia. The only real race this season where we've had a fairly high amount of attrition, the reason McLaren, I would say are doing so well, which doesn't sound right, but they're doing arguably better than they should. should be in the standings, and Nico Holcomburg, for that matter, all three of those drivers are

doing better than what it seems because of that Australian Grand Prix, where they had their best race when there was all of the incidents going on with the Alpine drivers and the Ferraris both retiring. All of the other races have been, I mean, we've seen Logan Sargent has finished 20th on track two of the last three races. It's almost unheard of to even finish 20th, let alone twice in the space of three races. So yeah, you're absolutely right on that. Also, qualifying. He's done a really good job in qualifying compared to what he did the last few years. He's actually made Q3 more than Kevin Magnuson, more than Alex Albin, and Bo for the Alpha Rameos, which is a far cry from what he was producing last year. I also think that people will

use the Nick DeVries argument to try and belittle his achievements. They'll go, well, he's up against Nick DeVries, who has obviously not had a shining start to his Formula One career. But I think that's unfair. I think the statistics you've just pulled out and the reliability issues that we've just spoken about as well, going against him. And his consistency in positional finishes show full well that whether you put Nick DeVries in that car or not, he is outdriving what he's done previously and deserves more with the machinery that he's got around him.

Who else made your over-performers list some? I reckon this one might shock people a little bit, actually. I'm going to go for Fernando Alonso as my next over performer. And you might all be thinking, oh, you know, did you think he was washed? Did you think he's rubbish? You probably don't rate him. It's not that. I just thought he was getting old a bit, you know?

I just thought, yeah, he's still got it. Wally old Fernando. He's still one of the most intelligent drivers. But good Lord, has that boy still got the ability to pull a performance out of the bag? And his attitude that comes with it, you know, he's got the bit between his teeth. And I think after Catalonia, he came out to the press in a very menacing way and said, this will be the last race without a podium. I thought, what a menacing line.

Like, I love that fighting talk. That is sensational. The faith, the commitment, the confidence. I want to live with 10% of what he believes his self-worth is because he delivers every day. And you know what? He's not just delivering in the chat, though, is he? He's delivering behind the wheel. every chance he gets he puts in

110% and even around Catalonia where he finished behind Stroll we know he only finished behind Stroll to be nice to kind of

you know because it gets some brownie points with the big man with Papa Stroll it allows him to he was waving to the crowd for a whole lap

before the racing even finish he was asleep he got a day off you know the fact that he's that comfortable and he's still absolutely banging in these performances Fernando Alonso

has one of the reason once again exceeded my expectations for what I felt he could do. I thought he was still one of the best on the grid, but I thought he had lost it. I thought it had gone to go on 10, 15% back. And that's, for Fernando, that still makes him one of the best on the grid. But he hasn't lost that much. I think he's lost a couple of attempts in qualifying, and that's probably it. He's so good still. I'm still so impressed by what he's doing. So he's, he is overachieving. He's doing more than I ever thought he could do this season. I don't think you're mad. I've got him on my list as well. I think he has overachieved versus what I expected.

We can't forget the last two years, as good as Alonzo was in patches, in obviously a worse car than what he's got at his disposal right now, Esteban Okon scored more points than him. Yeah, Ockon scored more points than Alonzo did at their two years together at Alpine. So to expect what we have, you know, maybe we should have seen it coming.

But I think he's done better than what I thought he would do. If we're looking at podiums, these are a few damning podiums for maybe the other teams, this sort of stat. But Alonso has five podiums this season. That's one more than Perez has got. That's also one more. That's also one more than Ferrari and Mercedes have combined. Oh, that is a horrible stack man.

A bit of analysis. It is a horrible. That is horrible. Yeah. Hamilton's got two, Russell's got one and LeClaire's got one, adding up to four. But Alonzo's got five by himself. he's been brilliant.

The Bahrain, I think we saw it all coming in Bahrain, really. The comeback that he had there was pretty epic. The way in which he tore through the Mercedes and Carlos Synes, very strategic the way that he went about it. You know, Australia, he finished on the podium there, finished on the podium in Saudi Arabia. You know, you could argue Saudi Arabia was a bit lucky, thanks to the penalty not really mattering too much.

and then obviously he wasn't on the podium and then was with the whole debacle after the race. Australia, yeah, in one respect, you could say he was lucky. In the other respect, you can say he was crashed into, so he wasn't all that lucky to get the podium there. And Monaco, who knows? That could have been a win. That could have been a win at Monaco if things had gone slightly differently in terms of the strategy. So, yeah, and to your point on qualifying as well, he's made every Q3 so far this year, which I can't remember who else can say that.

Carlos Sines can say that and that might be about it. There might be one more that I'm forgetting. I think there's now two drivers only. Is it now two? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah.

He's been great. And yeah, like you say, some might say, well, this is Fernando Alonzo. He is a former two-time world champ. You'd expect him to perform at this level. At the age of 41, there were question marks. putting back in a top team in a top car for the first time in, let's say, 10 years, well, over 10 years now.

And this is what he's able to produce. So, yeah, I've got him on my list. Now we wait to see, do we have a complete match, Sam? Well, I was struggling with the third one. I'm not struggling because I ran out of names, but struggling because, you know, we're only talking three names here. Otherwise, the podcast would go on for days and we'd run into the Canadian preview. but I also wanted to give the person justice.

I also wanted to, well, I'm hoping here that I don't end up doing a hat trick and we score exactly the same one. So I've gone slightly left field. And I am going to go with, please don't say you've got this on your list. I'm going to go with Joe Guangyu as my third and final pick for overachieving. Now, don't get me wrong. He's not blowing the world out of the water. But you need to remember that when Joe Guangyu came into the Formula One field,

we all looked at it as a, I know, I'm going to be a big. harsh on ourselves, but we all looked at it as a bit of a joke. We kind of thought, pay driver, hasn't achieved much in his junior career, got a lot of backing behind him. There's a lot of commercial ability behind him, of course, being the first Chinese Formula One driver. And I understand that, you know, Formula One is cash, money, baby. You've got to make it. And he's a great avenue to make that. But he's delivering. And he's not just delivering on track because he's become a real loved personality around Formula One. I think that also stands for something. People enjoy.

being around him. People love what he does. He is really running into it. Yeah. And I think, consider how old he is and what he's achieved, it's really sensational the kind of person that he is. And he's also willing to express himself and be who he is. And I really enjoy that he's not a bit of a corporate drone. But he's also going up against Valtry Bottas, multiple race winner, ex-Lewis Hamilton teammate, you strive for Mercedes. And I know that Bottas is not driving at his peak. And I'm sure in the next section that we're about to get onto, Bottas' name will probably emerge. but Jo Guan Yu is not

falling foul of any of these 18th place finishes that we're seeing from Botas unless there's a major issue in the car which I believe

he had in Bahrain if I'm served correctly where he had a bit of a problem I don't think he's really had

any proper duff performances and yeah like I said not blowing the world away but he is consistently getting better and that is

what you need from someone who was a rookie only a little while ago he is growing into the seat. He is becoming a regular midfield driver. He's not making regular mistakes. He's often beating cars around him. And you saw the battle that we had in Catalonia where, you know, we all agree that the Sengoda penalty is unfair, but the

wheel to wheel battles that he was having with the horse drivers, with Yuki Sengoda, with some the other cars around them as well, his wheel to wheel ability has really come along. It was fantastic to see him go wheel to wheel so often in a track where you could wash out wide, you can have serious collisions with someone. He's becoming a really concrete part of the track, of the calendar. And you think that maybe someone like Audi, who wouldn't have considered him beforehand, might now be looking at him as someone who could go, right, we've got a driver that could do a job.

He's not going to win us a championship right now, but he could do a job. You know, he could get us points if we give him the car. We'll go for a star or a risk in the other seat. Bottas, on the other hand, might be, you know, a bit too old, fulfill that legacy that they want. they go for Zhou Guan Yu. And I'm surprised. I'm genuinely surprised at how consistently all right he's being. So for me, Zhou Guangyu is my final over performer. It's a very fair shout. It's not the same name I've got, but it is definitely a fair shout. Yeah, we do have some difference in opinion, which is good. But I don't disagree with the points you made on Joe Guan Yu. It's just, yeah,

it's that consistency that you speak to. It's almost he will wait for others to make the errors and the mistakes and he'll pounce as a result of that. You very rarely see, unless I'm missing something, you very rarely see crashes from show Guan Yu. You very rarely see notable errors. It's almost the case of, look, we don't have the pace to consistently fight for points every single race, but I'm going to make sure that if that anyone is making errors in front of us, I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there to pounce, which is kind of what he did, I think, in Australia. Yeah, there were incidents that happened all around. And he took advantage and he managed to score two points maybe.

I think so, yeah. I think so. But Bottas didn't score in that race. You know, Joe was in the position to do so after those things happened. So, yeah, fair plays of what he's been able to do. I'd say really, ever since he debuted, he's done far better than we thought he was going to. I've gone for Laplan. Oh, here we go.

Here we go. He's managed to get here again. X-Sebeg, folks. I'm going to throttle him with a big, big rope that says Laplang across it. That's my Laplang. And if you'd like to see that, you'll have to join our Patreon. Oh, it was smooth. He's smooth with it. A Patreon exclusive content. We're not giving that away for free. God. Okay, Esteban Ockon. Similar to your point, Sam, I think the first two for me came much easier.

And then this third one was a bit trickier. So there were a few names. going around in my mind as to who I was going to pick, one of which was Joe Guan Yu. But I went with Esteban Okon in the end, had a horrible start to the season. Bahrain was maybe one of his worst races. And he's been around for a while, but that was one of his worst races ever. But I think apart from that, he has, for the most part, put the excitement over Ghazly joining to one side and just been the team leader. I don't think he has blown Ghazley away.

but at the same time, I think at this point in the year, we can say, okay, Ocon is the stronger of the two. The Monaco performance speaks for itself. The Monaco performance was excellent. But I think even outside of that, he was solid Spain. I think he was in Saudi Arabia, he was unlucky that there wasn't more carnage, as we have seen in previous years. So he finished P8 in that race. But in front of him, both Ferraris finished, Alonzo, Philips. finished, both Merck's finished, both Red Bulls finished. If that was another Saudi

Arabian Grand Prix that we've had, he might finish fourth in that race rather than eighth. So I think he got unlucky there. I think he's just been under the radar consistent and he's done a little bit better than I thought he would. I think Ockon versus Gassley was one of the more intriguing teammate battles coming into the season. And points wise, it's still fairly close. I think it's 10 points in it between the two drivers. But overall, I have confidence that Ocon's going to kick on from here. Yeah, I think he's just been pretty good. I think the issue with O'Con, which you mentioned in your point,

was that he's so under the radar. And I think that's him generally under the radar. And I think he needs to do something maybe more publicly to elevate his profile of who he is and what he's about because he is quite forgettable as a driver on the grid. and I don't mean that offensively, but when you, you know, you come out with a list of drivers, he's never in the first seven or eight that you think of in terms of names, I don't think.

And of course, you know, the team maybe doesn't allow him to be an absolute superstar. But I would argue that that Ghazli's name will often pop up well before Okong's name on a list. I just, he has that ability. He has a raw ability. He can be a very successful racing driver. He's proving that he could be a team leader. A team as big as Alpine, I just want him to elevate himself and who he is. So he gets a bit more public credit for the ability that he's providing.

Because that podium alone in Monaco, it was a sensational driver. You saw how many top-level drivers were struggling around that track. And Okon just kept the pressure off constantly, no issues, no mistakes. He grew fantastically well. And yet, it feels like it's been barely mentioned. So I want him to just raise himself up rather than raise the driver up, because the driver's good. Okay, we're going to take our first short break and then we'll be back with the underperformers right after this.

Okay, that's far too much positivity on the late breaking podcast. We're all about negativity here. Underperformers. Who's the first name up? Oh, I've got to give it to my favourite boy, my lovely bottom, the boat himself. It is Valkyee, Botta. Yeah, you know, he is the boat. And while he's the boat, he's also driving like he's literally in a boat, you know,

it does seem to not have any aerodynamic capabilities. And he doesn't seem to be able to perform any overtaking. Of course, I'm speaking about Valtry Bottas if you're new to the podcast and wondering who on earth is this man running on about. Valtry Bottas has got, if you looked across his career and said, you know, who has raw talent, raw ability from the start of their career, you know, Valtry's name. Raw. It's effing raw. Thank you, Gordon.

You know, Valtrey Bottas has always shone really brightly across a lot of his rivals at the same level. You know, considering that he came into the sport, similar times to the likes of Daniel Ricardo, right? You've got to remember he's a vat generation. And look at how well he did at Williams for a start and then he got that move to Mercedes. And, okay, he never beat Lewis Hamilton,

but that's like saying, you know, you've never beaten McDonald's in fast food. It's one of the greatest of all time for a reason. They just get... We're coming for you. Yeah. Late Breaking burgers coming soon. The Lburger. It's green.

LBs. My point here is, that's tough competition. And I think for the most part, he held himself pretty well under a lot of pressure, you know, one year contracts on repeat, blah, blah, blah, blah. He got the move trial for Romeo, and he kind of relaxed into it well.

You know, he's shown who he was, And he started delivering relatively good performances. But now he's just turned into this can't be asked, can't be bothered type performance where every single race? It's like, where are you, Valtrey? What's happened to make you 18th place? Oh, nothing. You're just being really, really slow.

And then on Instagram, he just goes, race day with a picture of him in the car. What day is race day, Valtry? Race day Sunday. And it's just a picture of him in the car and then it's a picture of him having a coffee. And I go, you know what? That's great. Make your bank, live your life, sell your coffee. But at the same time, you are being really rubbish. Really rubbish. And there's a lot of people that deserve a good race seat that you're taking up. And I don't really know what you're doing to justify it anymore. And I hate to say it because he really is my favorite. But he's being a bit pants. He's being a bit poop. And I think someone else maybe should come the end of the season step into that seat. Because I don't know currently what he's doing to justify it. He's really underperformed, like drastically badly underperformed. So Valtrey, you are big first.

It's not close for me. He is by far the number one on my list. He was also on my list as well. I'm sure that won't come as too much of a surprise for mostly the points that you've made there, Sam. I was intrigued because there have been a, like you said, there have been a number of occasions this year where he hasn't been on the pace and he has finished very low down the order.

So I had a look to see of all the occasions this year that a driver has finished, and when I say, not retirements, has finished 18th or lower at the end of the Grand Prix. Bottas has finished 18th or worse three times this year. So he did it in Saudi Arabia. He was 18th there. Azerbaijan, he was 18th again.

And last time out, Spain, he was 19th. Wow. Three times. And I was looking at all the other drives. drivers that had done the same thing. Sargent has also done it. Sargent has finished 18th or worse three times. And then all other drivers, all other 18 drivers combined have done it three times. So Piastri's done it once. Magnuson's done it once. Nick DeVries has done it once. Nick DeVries. Nick DeVries, Valtru! Like, what are you doing, man?

So essentially, there have been nine occasions this year where a driver has finished 18th, 19th, 20th, three of them belong to Botas, three of them belong to Sargent, and three of them belong to all the other 18 drivers combined. That should probably tell you where he's at right now. It started very well. Barang was great. He was eighth in Bahrain. He was competing with the Merks and the Alph, sorry, the Alphs, the Aster Martin. It was going pretty well. But ever since that point, nothing, just nothing to write home about whatsoever. And whilst, whilst in other Grand Prix, the Alfa Romeo hasn't had a lot of pace, right? So it's not like his poor performances have cost the team too much. Yeah, if he didn't perform very well at Azerbaijan, but if he had performed

very well, he'd have finished 13th. So it's not like him being poor at Azerbaijan cost the team any points. But they were pretty good at Spain. Joe Guan Yu had really good pace. And I know, I know Bottas, I think, had a damaged floor during that Grand Prix, so it might not have all been performance that time around. But as we get into, if Alfa Romeo continue in terms of having some real pace in their car, and Bottas's performances don't pick up, suddenly it will cost the team points and it will cost the team positions in the championship. So it's almost like, you, you know, Yeah, he hasn't been great, but it probably hasn't impacted them. But if the car ends up being good again, it will.

Valtry. I think that's actually a really fair point because I didn't consider that. It was, you know, how much is it actually costing Alpha? And you're right, it hasn't really cost them anything. Maybe a point if it had a perfect weekend. You know, and that's not going to absolutely change the world. And I think Alpha and May are very much on this ticking clock where they're just trying to run the time down a little bit.

and maybe Valtry's aware of that. And maybe he's been, you know, like someone whispering his ear that he's part of the plan later on down the road. And he knows that he hasn't got to fight for his spot or something like that. But it's a fair point that it hasn't cost them,

you know, an arm and a leg. But still, mate, are you not bothered by this anymore? Because for me, there's a bit of pride in it. You know, even if, even if you're not going to win the race, do your best kind of thing, and he just can't be bothered. It's giving real Kimmy Ryking and vibes,

but he hasn't won a world championship in the pros. so, you know, he hasn't even got that credibility to fall back on. I guess what I see more from him. He's a good bloke. Just do a bit more. Who is name number two on your list? Sorry, Lance. Lancy Pancy.

Lance Dordle, the man that can't run. I just, you know, not only can you not run. You can't seem to drive it going near the speed of your team mate. And I'm seeing Spain as an anomaly here, really, because as we saw, as I've already mentioned on the podcast, I feel like to have a nap three quarters of the way through that race, and he's still finished less than a second behind you. Lance Stroll has been

almost gifted a car that is capable of, this is what we've always said, you know, if Lance Stroll had a championship winning car, could he fight at the top? Could he actually take race wins? Could he take podiums? Could he be a force to be reckoned with? Because his entire former and one career

has been dealt with cars at the back, essentially. He's, you know, he's had a few podiums that have sprinkled themselves around where he's either got a little bit lucky with how things have worked out, or he has had a blinding performance. You know, that Baku race, of course, where he picked up a pony and was a great drive from him.

But for the most part, it has been mediocrity. And I'm not saying that, oh my God, get him off the grid. He's rubbish. He never grace the grid ever again because he's not that driver anymore. He is not the worst driver on the grid. He is not doing an awful job. But when you compare him to, okay, two-time World Champ, everyone do the dance, Fernando Alonso,

who is, you know, out there using, smack talk saying that there'll never be a race again where he's not on the podium. And Lance Stroll's like, well, hey, I didn't finish outside the points this time. And you think, uh, Lance, there's more you need to be doing here. If Fernando's third, you need to be two or three seconds back in fourth place on a regular basis, you know, the car is capable of it. You've had enough time to learn what's good at Formula One and what is not good at Formula one.

You should have gotten better now. You should have learned from Seb. You can learn from Fernando. you've had the best mentors that anyone could have asked for really in Formula One. You should be doing more. And he's not delivering. And I need to be real that the only real reason he's keeping that seat is because his name is the same as the person that owns the team. And I do think that that kind of car, that kind of second seat at Ascom Martin would be a perfect opportunity for someone like Lando Norris to move into to try and excel his career, to try and, you know, imagine a Lando fan.

Lando Nando-Nando team mate battle where they could be picking up podium. Philando is great, you know, think about them cool names, folks. That would be a real menacing pairing. I'd be a bit afraid of that pairing in a car like Ashton Martin where they could be picking up regular podiums. Heck, maybe a wing if the race goes the right way. Lans just is not there. And that's okay. Not every driver is going to be there.

But he is hogging a seat that is a top three. top four every single race, really. And I think it, you know, someone is to whisper to, Papa Stroll, come on, come on, just move him on. I know it's hard, but for the good of entertainment, just let him go.

Yeah, Lance, massively underperforming, especially for what the car's worth. Yeah, I, I'm not going to add too much to that because the title of Wednesday's episode was, is Lance Stroll holding back the Astor Martin team, which my answer was pretty much, yeah, he is. And I've outlined my arguments there. So for the sake of not going too far in on Landstrel, I won't add too much to that point. It is interesting what you said. The last thing you say, though, just in terms of if Lawrence Stroll would ever

replace Lanchdrol, we know that he had the option to with a Perez and Vettel combination a couple of years ago and declined it. But of course, as we know, the Aston Martin's in a better position now pace-wise than it was back then. So I don't know whether that would impact this decision now versus the last time you really had the opportunity to make that switch. I don't know. I'll add a different name because, yeah, I decided I couldn't be any more mean to to launch roll. So I'll add, I'll add Kevin Magnuson into the mix from my side. So I'm not quite sure exactly what I expected Magnuson versus Holcombberg, but I at least thought at the beginning of the season that given Holkenberg's time out of F1, and I know he never truly had time out of

F1 because he was reserving for Aster Martin for a couple of years, but at least in terms of a full-time seat, I figured that Kevin Magnuson would hold a steady advantage in the early part of the year. It hasn't really happened. So in qualifying in particular, the race-wise, it hasn't been too bad, but qualifying, Holkenberg seems to hold a steady advantage. So Holkenberg has made Q3 three times. Magnuson's only done it once. And Kevin Magnuson at the moment has four Q1 eliminations, Holkenberg only twice. So qualifying-wise, Holkenberg has a good advantage. Points-wise, Holkenberg has a good advantage. I will say that Magnuson's had two pretty good races this year. Miami, when he was fighting with Leclerc and he ended up picking one point there,

he was all right in that race. Saudi Arabia as well, he finished 10th and he had to work. pretty hard for that point. Outside of that, not a lot to write home about. So I added Kevin Magnuson to my list. Yeah, I think that's a really good shout actually. And one that I think initially sounds a bit harsh. And then you do what Ben Hocking does at best. And that's dig into the statistics. And, you know, they will always speak for themselves because facts are facts. And Canang has, you know, the more better affinity with the team. He has the more recent, long-term experience within the sport. And he's a highly rated driver.

A lot of people give Magnuson credit for being one of the better drivers on the grid. Despite it being a little bit box office, a bit roundy behind the wheel. He could deliver a performance. There's a reason why he got a year at McLaren back when they were, you know, around their Lewis Hamilton-Jenkinson-Button time because he was rating highly. And Hulk's just very calmly settled into the car and just started delivering.

And I actually am a bit shocked that Hulk still got the ability that he has. I did not think we'd be seeing this level of performance from him. So as much as I think Kevin is underperforming, Hulk was one of those games that for me was actually clumsy being on my overperforming list because I've really been surprised with just how good Nico Holgerberg has been. Yeah, I mean, we've seen it before with other drivers to pick one name out, Esteban Okon. When he came back to what would have been Renault in 2020 after having a year out, Ricardo had a very good advantage over him.

And we've generally seen that Ocon all of his teammates throughout his entire career, he's been there or thereabouts, you know, when it was Perez, when it was Alonzo, now that it's Ghazly. He's had some really good teammates that he has been at worst, only just worse than, and in most instances on a par with, the one year that sticks out in Esteban Ocon's career as not being a very good year was 2020 after he was 12 months out of a seat. So we have seen it before where these drivers have had time out and it's taken them a while to get back into it. We haven't really seen that with Nika Hockenberg. So, yeah, I've been impressed in that regard.

Now, final name on the list. This one is actually really tricky. No, I don't think it is going to be an on-no-no thing. I just, I actually struggled with this because I'm not going to go down the route of giving it to someone like Sargent, as much as they haven't been great. And the same as, you know, people might be thinking, well, Sam's obviously going to literally destroying it to freeze his career again verbally. I'm not because as much as he has been bad,

I didn't expect him to be phenomenally good anyway. I did not expect this could be a revolutionary moment for Nick DeVries. I thought he'd be a bit better than what he was. I'm going to pick a name, which I've already actually mentioned in a previous point that I made, that I think might surprise people. And that is Lando Norris as an underperformer for me, which I think might come as a surprise. And that's not because I think Lando is bad,

or that I think that Lando is, you know, is washed or he shouldn't be where he is. But this season, I'd argue, has been the worst season so far for Lando Norris since he's coming to Formula One. I would argue that he's driving Saudi Arabia was maybe the worst drive we've ever seen from Lando Norris since he came into Formula One. It was an absolute stinker. He's not far off Piastri in a lot of races. And then in Spain, most recently, where Peter Livid, an absolute belter of a couple of qualifying session, and it was a belter.

It was his own fault for putting himself in the mud immediately around the Spanish Grand Prix. He didn't play it safe. He didn't try to build his way through the race. I know the car is amazing, but, you know, it was where it was. And he drove straight into the back of Lewis Hamilton on turn two. And that's not very good. So for what I expect of Landon Norris, and that is very high things. I rank Landon Norris up there with the likes of George Russell, Charles, Chal LeCler.

You know, I see him above Carlos Sainz. He is not delivering those level of performances so far this season. And I think he's very lucky that, one, McLaren and other teams are so invested in him. And two, he has a real history of delivering fantastic performances. Because I think if he only had this season, people would be starting to criticize him. I don't think it's been particularly good enough. It'll just be glimpses of something good. He's got plenty of time to turn it around.

and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he will turn it around because also the car obviously not amazing. But it's just being a bit of a letdown so far, even when the car has shown promises of greatness of able to get himself with great points and good moments, it's just, he's not really excelled for me. So maybe this is harsh. I don't know. But for me, Landon Norris is my final underperformer of the season. I don't necessarily think it's harsh because it is based on expectation. You're not necessarily coming out here saying that Landon Norris has been one of the three worst drivers on the grid. You're saying the versus what you expect of him, it hasn't lived up to that. And I think part of it is, part of it is car performance, but part of it

has been driver led as well, because you're right. The Spain incident was self-inflicted. The Saudi Arabian Grand Prix was not a good one. He has had some good ones in there as well, you know, getting points at Azerbaijan in a car that goes five miles an hour as its top speed, was pretty good. Australia was another good result. So there have been good and bad included, but as you say, the last couple of years, we've been used to Lando Norris being 90% good, 10% bad, not 50% good, 50% bad, as you might say this season has been so far. So I don't think it's an unfair shout. And I haven't got him as my third name. I have got Nick DeVries, which is shocking that I'm the one that has DeVries on his list and not Sam. But I did have him

as one of the underperformers, because whilst I don't expect the world from rookies, and I don't think teams should, he still has underperformed based on what I thought he was going to be, which is not the standard rookie in terms of, yeah, I don't think that he was ever going to be a world champion. I still don't think he's going to be a world champion or one of the top drivers on the grid. But I figured that based on his pre-F-1 experience, he would be up to speed quicker than the average rookie would be. That's why he's on this list and Logan Sargent isn't, because Logan Sargent has, for the most part,

been pretty much exactly where I thought it'd be. Has he been quick? Not particularly. Have there been one or two glimpses here and there? Yes. But Logan Sargent's not on this list because he's six years younger than Nick DeVries and only had one year in F2 last year. Nick DeVries, on the other hand, you know, he, Nick DeVries was finishing seventh in F2,

the same year that Logan Sargent was racing in British F4. So to expect the two drivers to come in and do the same job, it is expectation. And I thought Nick DeVries would be more solidly consistent than he has been. And the reality has been Miami. There was a crash. Baku, multiple crashes. And generally speaking, not a lot of speed.

Spain wasn't great. Monaco was arguably his most encouraging weekend so far. Didn't score any points, of course, but I think overall he probably showed up there better than any other circuit. But I just figured with his pre-F-1 experience, he spent three years in Formula E. He spent three, I think, years in F2. I mean, this might be an unfair point,

but he's driven for double the number of teams in F1 practice. included than Lewis Hamilton has. He drove for three teams last year in practice sessions or in test drives. So he was in that capacity for Mercedes. He was in that capacity for, for Aston Martin. Obviously, Williams, he actually drove for. Now he's at Alfa Tauri. So he's, he's almost been around half the grid in terms of some experience. I know it's not fair because it's not a full season or even half a season. It's just a session here and there. But he's not your average rookie, yet he has been in terms of his results. So I have got him there. I think, don't be wrong, fair game to pull out. I just think my expectations were so low of him. And I'm not saying that he, you know,

I expected this bad, but they're already bad. But when I look at a driver of his age, he's essentially the same age as me, remember folks. And he spent that long in Formula 2. And he wasn't successful, really. It took him a long time to become successful in Formula 2. and then he wasn't particularly successful in Formula E until he was, and it took a long time for that to happen. And that, if you watched that Formula E season, it was such a higgledy, pigledy season. It's not like he absolutely, you know, swept the floor with everyone.

He didn't dominate. And you look at other drivers that have run a similar gauntlet through a junior career, where it's taken them years to get out of a junior formula or taking years to win the junior formulas. It doesn't often result in being a phenomenally successful driver. and for me, if you've spent three years in F2, I immediately, and this might be a very sweeping generalised statement, which might sound harsh, I don't rate you. I start to lose faith in what you could do. Teopal Shear is very much on the brink of becoming, for me, a big of what could have

been because of how long it's taking him to get on with it. I know he's in a bit of a tricky position to be signing a Formula One team, but, you know, Drugovic, she's another one, has fantastic ability, but it's taking time to get on with it. The real stars of future of now get it done and they get it done quickly. And Nick DeVries has never got something done quickly. That includes finishing a Formula One race. So I can't put him as an underperformer when I already thought he was going to underperform in comparison to everyone else, I suppose. Yeah, I think, I think what I expected was, and these are these numbers I'm just plucking out. They're illustrative. I don't actually stand by these. But I thought, let's say, Logan Sargent would come in and he'd be a two

out of ten with the potential to be an eight out of ten. And I thought Nick DeVries was going to come in and be a four out of ten with the potential to be a six out of ten. So I don't, I don't think that Nick DeVries, I never thought that Nick DeVries was going to develop much from his rookie season versus the average rookie, but I thought his starting point would be higher than that of, say, Piastri or Sergeant, and it hasn't been. That's why I think he's underperformed. Fair, very fair. Okay, we're going to talk the 2024 calendar right after this.

Okay, so as is being reported by the race at the moment, SPAR is set for another reprieve and will remain on the 2024 calendar as plans for a South African Grand Prix that have been in the works for. a few years now, they've taken another hit. So it's looking unlikely with time running out for the 2024 seasons calendar to be announced that Kyle Arm is going to feature potentially attention turning to 2025 on that one. Spars' position on the calendar has been very up in the air for a few years now, but it seems as if it might get one more year. Sam, what your thoughts on both? Do you think there should be room for both of these tracks on the calendar or is the

fight for is the competition too much now to the point where some of these tracks are going to have to fall by the wayside? Let's let's talk about spa first. Spar is one of the most iconic, historic eventful tracks that we have been to in Formula One. You know, it's up there with Silverstone. It's up there with Monza interlagos. You know, it does sit on that pedestal of historic brilliance. And the fact that this is a regular conversation at the moment that Spar could be. be the track that's, you know, replaced. Absolutely blows my mind. I do not understand where this desire to get rid of spa every single year seems to be coming from. It is a sensational circuit with such brilliant undulation, elevation, a mixture of different, you know, areas in circuits

from very slow level of corners through wild, you know, darting, you know, the Oruz radion section alone is infamous for what it could do. And the weather that we get there, yes, okay, we have the deluge that attacked Spa only two years ago, and that did ruin the event. But often it's great for a mixture of wet and dry, and it has produced some of the most infamous moments in Formula One that we've seen over the last, you know, 20, 30 years. So why Kealami being raised is only coming up as a,

it must replace Spa is just, it baffles me. Spar has a place on this calendar, and I don't know why it needs to be removed. So unless Formula One are turning around and they're going, it can't pay up, it's got no money to pay us. Then that's a real shame and something needs to be done

to protect some of these circuits on the calendar that give Formula One its true identity. It's okay to preserve your history. It's okay to honour a little bit of tradition here and there.

Formula One is its own sport and as much as it shares some DNA with other areas of the world like IndyCar or the junior former is now F2 or FE. you know, it has its own identity and certain tracks like Spar or Silverstone or whatnot, they should be preserved. And I'm a shock that this one keeps being spoken as a replacement.

Kialami on the other hand, Kialami used, if you're new to Formula One, Kialami used to be a track that appeared on the Formula One calendar. And of course, Formula One doesn't go to a circuit in the Africa continent at the moment. But it prides itself on being a truly global sport, ironic if it misses out an entire continent, one of the most lived in continents and one of the largest continents

that we have on our planet. We just don't bother to visit there. Kealami itself, if you've never looked at Kealami or driven a game around Kealami, even watched old footage around the sport. It is also a track that is filled with undulation. It is filled with elevation changes.

It's got a lot of tricky corners and it's got a lot of history within it as well. And South Africa has a real love and passion for motorsport. You know, it has a world champion. Jogi Schechter, of course, famously won the World Championship, and he's a South African driver. And so it has got a history within our sport. So we should make an effort, make a conscious effort if it's not South Africa to go somewhere within the African continent. You know, it's for market purposes, it's a huge

up-and-coming market. The likes of Nigeria is booming. Kenya has obviously got a massive, you know, population and ability to spend. South Africa, of course, has always been there for us. Egypt, there are so many great nations that are across Africa that could be a really valued part of the Formula One community that we should honour that. So I believe that Kiyalami or another track deserves its spot on the calendar, but it shouldn't be replacing SPAR. We have so many other Duff tracks that, you know, regularly get slated for NAF performances, bag races, you know, oh, it's not very good. Oh, it's going to be a ball fest before we even get there. Why is it SPAR that's being called out for this? And I know that we are in such a high demand where every nation seems to want a race on the calendar.

That's great. That shows that Formula One is really thriving at the moment. But stop getting rid of the ones that actually do a good job multiple years at a time. It's a bit baffling. You imagine if we went, oh, there's a new track that we've not been to. Let's just get rid of interlagos. Doesn't make us a lot of money. We'll just get rid of it.

No, you don't just get rid of it. It's a great circuit. You keep it and you make room somewhere else. For me, Chialami at least preserves a spot for a year to see how good it will be. The same happened with Imala. We end up been there for 20 years. All of a sudden, it's back there every year and people love it. You should give these things a try, but do not get rid of spa just because you can.

I don't think that's the answer to this. Say it with me, folks. Rotational races are the future. I can't wait until they finally listen to it. us on this. We've been on this for years. Rotational races are the future. And it looks like if Kyle Army does happen, it might well end up that way for Spar. So I think Spar and Zandvort as a rotational sort of two-year deal might end up coming to fruition. Logistically, I guess it makes sense that you're kind

of advertising to the same people in terms of geographical areas. So that could be the future, but it should just be the future for the whole of the F1 calendar, really. If you've got, I can't remember the exact number he said, but I think he came out with, Domenicali came out and said we've like 32 tracks that I would like to be on the calendar. Great. If my maths is right, that's 12 tracks that will appear every year and 20 tracks that will appear every two years.

There you go. That's a 22 race calendar and it fits 32 tracks. That works. I appreciate that's very theoretical. That's very perfectionist. and it won't work exactly like that. But there's far more they can do if they want to get more tracks on the calendar without having to get rid of tracks completely.

You can move it to every two years. Also, there is the discussion about reduced weekend time that I will stay on that for a long time. But I've spoken about that quite recently. So I won't go on that one today. That's for another episode. Spa, I think, just to look at Spa before I go on to Kyle Army Spa, for the first instance, has made a lot of investment over the last few years,

which does work very well for its case to say that it should remain on the calendar. Obviously, the heritage factor you've already mentioned. The scenery in itself is something completely unique to Formula One, which is great to see. What doesn't work in Spars' favour, which, don't get wrong, I love Spar, love some of the corners there, the weather, some of the corners like a Pion are great, doesn't produce great races, it doesn't, it doesn't produce good. Apart from Monaco, apart from Monaco, I think over the last four years, it's been the worst track of the European leg of the calendar.

In terms of pure racing action, it isn't anywhere near Austria. I don't think it's anywhere near Silverstone. The last four years, the Spanish Grand Prix has been better than the Belgian Grand Prix. And I'm not saying that the Barcelona is a better track than Sparrow. don't get me wrong. And some of it is circumstantial, some of it is situational. But the reality is it doesn't deliver great races. And that might be what causes it to go.

It's similar. And I'll just insult another track while I'm at it. I might as well drive into the skid. Same as Suzuki. It's Suzuki and Spara, the two tracks on the calendar that are utterly epic. The drivers love it. And as pure tracks, I love them both. they don't produce good races more often than not.

And maybe that's what causes its downfall. I don't know. I think I would rather see Suzuki go first over spa. I think I regularly feel myself being more bored watching Suzuki than I do spa. And the thing is we also need to become, I think, okay with having a boring race, right? It's like watching any sport.

Sometimes some matchups are a little dull. But should they be dull every single time? That's the question, right? And Catalonia has had a bit of a saving grace recently because I think if you would have, if we were had to have this conversation in 2019, you have gone, no chance that we get in a ring of spa, get Catalonia off this calendar as absolutely soon as possible.

And weirdly, it's made a bit of a comeback, although I would say that the most recent race that we had in Catalonia has not done itself any favours. But is that more a Red Bull domination, or is that more a Cateronia problem? I don't know. Maybe that's a debate for another day. See, I thought Catalonia was all right this year.

I think it was fine. Yeah, fine. It was, what, a four, four point five out of ten, five, maybe, if you're being generous. Both me and Harry scored it, I think, six and a half. That's more than fine, though. That's better than average. Yeah, fine too good, I would say six and a half. Oh, yeah, any over a six is going into the good category.

For me, it was below a six for me. I actually, I can't believe I'm saying this. I enjoyed Monaco more. Yeah, I think we and Harry still rated Monaco a little bit higher than Spain. But yeah, I'll get onto the Kailami debate now because that's part of it as well. It's been, I think, 30 years exactly since we've been there.

So I think 93 was the last Grand Prix we had in South Africa. And I know we've said it quite a few times on the podcast that we do, for it to be called a world championship, do want to go to as many corners of the earth that we can. And as you say, Africa is the second most populous continent in the world. So really we should be there, at least one race, of a 23 race season, we should be there once. I know that South Africa there are questions at the moment.

Some people seem to think that the reason that for the delay and not being able to strike a deal is because of South Africa's politics and not willing to not willing to, publicly go against what Putin has done in Ukraine. It becomes very, I won't get into this debate now. It comes very difficult as to where F1 draws the line. So they draw the line at that, but there are plenty of other places we go where they think it's acceptable.

So it's very tricky to determine what's okay and what's not okay in terms of actually bringing an F1 race there. But yeah, I do want to see Africa in some form absolutely featured on the calendar. I just think it's a no-brainer for it to be a world championship. Well, I'm glad that, I'm glad that we're in agreement and we have solved the calendar crisis. You know what? Your rolling kind of thing, it annoys me every single time because it's such a simple solution to this conversation that happens every time. Yeah, it's really not rocket science, is it? No, you could, you know, if you want to have a 24 race candidate, you have eight fixed races,

and then you have 16 races that can rotate with something that's geographically close to it every single time, and you fit so many cool races in, you know, it's, it's not hard. You could do, you can add another rate on there as well and make it a three-year thing. There are so many easy solutions, and they just don't ever bother. And it's, honestly, I want to shout it at them. Oh, I go, Stefano, let me just scream at you how simple this would be as a solution. Yeah, I think some people think that, I don't know, if you're waiting two years between races, then you lose some of the interest. I'd say that, you know, the Olympics, every four years,

World Cup every four years, you don't become less interested when they roll around. In fact, but I'll be more interested because you have to wait a little bit longer. So, you know, if we did have to wait two years for a race at Silverstone as an example, you know, would that, I feel like more hype would come about as a result of that. So I do think it would work. If you told me Hockenheim was coming back in two years' time, I'd be buzzed. I'd be so buzzed to know that it's coming back. You know, that's the funniest thing about all of this. They literally had a deal, a rotational deal for the German Grand Prix.

They had it between the Nuremberg and Hockenheim. So they've done it before. It works. It works. It works. Make it work. You silly, silly, clever individuals. Well, clever's polite.

We'll take a short break after Sam's calling the FIA silly, silly clever. And we'll be discussing ESPN right after this. Okay, so we got some recent news that ESPN, the Formula One broadcaster in the United States, is offering an alternate telecast of the Canadian Grand Prix and then two further Grand Prix later in the season. So that will be the other two races in the United States. So we've obviously had Miami already, but then Las Vegas Grand Prix and the United States Grand Prix in Austin will also have this alternate telecast. Will Arnett and Daniel Ricardo will be providing commentary and it's being produced in collaboration with Omaha Productions

which is Peyton Manning ex-NFLterbacks company. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that this more laid-back style of a broadcasting approach might work? This is a sensational idea and one that I think that every single broadcaster should pick up to have an alternate comms point of view. And it doesn't have to be, you've gone down the route of casual, leg back,

we're going to be funny. You know, it could be, oh, I don't know, I really enjoy a really informative, stat-heavy point of view. Or Sky have recently launched the F-1 for kids. It could be a children's approach to alternate commentary. It's okay to provide other options and not give a one-size-fits-all approach.

Daniel Ricardo, as we know, one of the biggest personalities, too, I would argue, ever come out of Formula One. everyone loves him. He's bloody lovely. He's a great guy. He knows what he's talking about and he has a fantastic way

of putting across so many points. You know, one of the best moments in interview history in Formula One is him going, you know, do you sweat? Of course I swear. I'm a high performance athlete, you know, the skis,

ski, ski, you know, that he does. It's one of the best moments we go, it's so bizarre, but it's hilarious. And so to get a whole race of Daniel Ricardo chatting about what he loves,

which is racing, brilliant, absolutely sensational. And you've got big Will Arnett alongside him. Funny man, Will Arnette, you know, the guy's a comedic sensation. Everyone loves him.

He knows what he's talking about as well. If you don't know, he's a big F1 racing fan. I think Ben, correct me from wrong, he's got his own show all about F1, you know, and he knows what he's on about, which I surprised me when I first came across him in this environment, but he's no slouch, he's no idiot. And this will provide a more lighthearted,

fun, interesting approach that you know what? I wish I could get a taste. of. I don't get to have a taste of it here in the UK. It's very difficult to get hold of. But I really wish I could try it and see how it goes because the options for this are endless. And if you said to me, Sam, you can listen to Martin Brundle and David Croft on Sky do the Canada Grand Prix. Or you can listen to, I don't know, Jenks of Button and Matt Gallagher and Tommy from the P1 podcast. I'd give it a go. I'd try it. It could be quite fun. It could be quite interesting. I've just given myself a yellow card there for big app and another podcast, but hey,

people know what they're talking about and they've got personality and it's okay to mix those things together. Just because you're an old white man doesn't mean you're necessarily the best person to talk about Formula One to an audience. I would love to see a more diverse, mixed up commentary team to present to the world what Formula One could deliver. I also think it would massively attract different demographics to pay more attention to the sport on a long-term basis. I'm very intrigued by this, mainly because the Manning cast from ESPN's Monday Night Football has worked very well. And this is kind of on that same line.

So for those of you that are unaware, the production company Omaha Productions, which is owned by Peyton Manning, they do, and I know a lot of people in the US are already going to know this, but they do Monday Night Football's alternate telecast, which is Peyton Manning, his brother, Eli Manning, both former NFL. quarterbacks and one guest per quarter of play. So you have four guests per episode per match. It means that it's quite fresh with the new guests coming on board every time. You know, you've got the insights of two of the best to either play the position. And it's been a real success for ESPN ever since it's launched. So I'm interested to see if that carries over to Formula One.

Clearly, they think it will by giving this a go with Will Arna and Daniel Riccardo. And they have said there will be guests as well, so they might well do a similar thing where for the first quarter of the race they have one guest in and the second quarter of the race, they get another guest in. Maybe they'll go down the same line here. A more laid back and more focused on chat and observations rather than calling the plays. It's worked very well for ESPN in terms of the NFL. So whether it carries over to F1 is now the question. I think it works well in terms of football for three reasons. Number one, firstly, Peter Manning and Eli Manning are brothers. So they have that connection, obviously.

They've been, I think, no offence to either of them, by themselves. They're not the most dynamic of personalities, but because they're together and they have that connection, it works. Secondly, I think the game of the NFL works quite well for what they were trying to do in that there's a lot, it lends itself well to chat because it's not a constant 60 minutes of action with no breaks in between. There are natural breaks at the end of every play when it comes to the NFL. So there's more opportunity to chat and to analyze and to speak about what's just happened. And thirdly, because those two both play the quarterback position at such a high level,

there are observations where it's always really interesting to see. You'll often see one of them will indicate for a timeout, live on air, as if they were the quarterback in the situation that the game is in, which is interesting to see. So will that carry over to the F1 production of this? Firstly, will the connection be there? Tough to say, I don't know how well Will Annette and Daniel Ricardo know they'll be in separate locations which might not help them out. Daniel Ricardo, to your point, Sam, it's such a massive personality and so is Will Annette. They might get away with it. But there is a question mark, will they have the connection that someone like brothers would have?

secondly, will the sport of F1 lend itself as well to this format as the NFL would? F1, as we know, is very constant action. There aren't breaks in the plays. There's always something happening. Is there going to be the opportunity to be that laid-back style? How's the first lap going to go? No disrespect to David Croft, who I respected David Croft, who I often, who I often.

criticize, he is, he's fast-mouthed in the first lap or so, and he has to be. Will they have that same thing with Ricardo and Will Arnett? And thirdly, I know Will Annette probably won't, but will Daniel Ricardo have the same observations that the likes of Peter Manning and Eli Manning would have? Has he got the freedom to speak his mind on Red Bull, for example? I would hope he does. So I think I'm more intrigued rather than, yes, this is great. I think the concept itself is probably a good one. Have they got the right people? Is it the right sport for it? I honestly don't know, which is why I can't wait to see how it goes. I'm hoping it's a success, because to your point, Sam, if it works, this can be rolled out across multiple broadcasters potentially.

It brings in new demographics. We know that F1 is really pushing hard on the 18 to 49 demographic. This would be another step in the right direction in that regard. So I'm, I'm hoping it works. Does it work? I don't know. Honestly, don't know. I also, not to blow our own trumpets, because we don't actually do that a lot on this podcast. But I think one of the reasons why our podcast has done so well and grown so rapidly is the connection between the three of us, of course. We're old-school mates that are, you know, just love F1. And I think you're right. I think that actual spark between the people that are doing in the commentary, as you say about the brothers doing it, this is what worries me about this ESPN version is have they gone away and spent a couple of weeks, together to get to know each other with Daniel Ricardo.

You brought up the fair point that Ricardo is still an active member of a Formula One team, as much as that insight might be very useful. Can he be critical if the Staffing does something? Can he talk about Perez, who we all know is a direct rival to him potentially getting a race winning seat over the next season or so? That's a bit of a conflict of interest. And I do think that I'm not advertising ourselves, but something like late breaking going and doing an alternate commentary for a race,

where you get a bit of camarader, you get a bit of banter. It feels like you're sitting a pub or a bar, talking to your friends while the race is on, could produce a very different and fun dynamic for a Formula One race. That was the bit, though, you brought it up yourself. The bit that worries me is Formula One is such a fluid and event-driven sport that if there's a major crash, if there is a big pass that happens, is it okay to essentially drop into the other style of commentary

where you do need to do a bit of a play-by-play where you're like, wow, what a move from X person or huge incident. And you need to talk about it because you can't just act like, oh, that's on the screen. We were talking about another topic. You do have to bring in some actual context and some momentary conversation.

It's a really tricky balance. It's not as simple as getting two or three personalities that can have a laugh together to just talk about F1. So I wish I could watch it. Maybe we can see some clips of it after the race. And if you are, in the area where it's available to you, please give us feedback on what you thought of it.

Please go and watch it. We'd love to know how it works if it is a success, because this could be a really interesting way to watch Formula One on races moving forward. Yeah. And by the way, I'm not qualified to talk about this whatsoever, but I do just want to raise it as a point. I think with the current commentary, let's say Sky Commentary is an example,

I feel like accessibility-wise, if you can't see it, you can hear it. And if you can't hear it, you can see it. and it works in both regards. If they're not on this alternate telecast calling the plays or calling the action in the same way that David Croft would, does it become less accessible for those, you know, that maybe, I don't know.

I just thought I agree with that point. That's a great point. If you're hard of sight or, you know, you struggle with making out imagery, which is, of course, you know, very good. common, then you might listen to someone like David Croft or Alex Jakes or someone like that and go, okay, this person has made a pass. They make a pass from the outside at turn one and they were really close. And you can you can feel that and like full credit to the likes of Croft and Jakes that do

this commentary. They may not get stats bang on the moment they say it, but they are very good at drilling excitement into you as a complementary factor of what is going on on the screen. And there's a reason they've been in these jobs for a long time and they continue to do so, because they do drag out extra excitement and context on top of what's going on. The criticism comes from their lack of correct information that could sometimes be relayed. But as long as you've got backup, so Jenks & Button does a brilliant job at doing that when he's in the commentary booth for Sky. He's so good at giving you a driver insight, what the driver's going through. And maybe that's the kind of person you need for this alternate comms. It allows you to have that rebalance of stats.

I think as long as you've got someone to stand up to someone like Croft or Jakeson, not be intimidated by a lead commentator and go, you called that right, but actually it was Hamilton, not Russell, making the overtake. You know, just give that extra bit of context on the top. That's the crucial element to making sure you're getting that commentary balance correct, I think. You have to have a very complementary of fair relationship between the people in the booth. Okay, I think we'll end this episode there then.

A lot of good topics covered today. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind, getting us out of him. here. Oh, it feels good. It feels good to do it again. Thanks for listening, everyone. It feels very good you're doing this. Yeah. I'm going to go back to the episodes that I miss just to listen to your outroes because they're always so much fun. Thank you so much for listening, folks. We've actually spoken a bit longer than I thought we would today. And of course, we'll be back midweek for the Canadian preview. But if you want to join us in conversation in the meantime, then the link is in the description for the Discord. We've got over 1900 members,

I believe, in there chatting about all different types of topics from normal F1. to other series like LeMong, which is happening as we record this, to IndyCar races, or they've got their own racing league. If you fancy joining you and doing some racing with the new game that's coming out, I believe. But this week, as part of the new game that's coming out this week, we do a monthly gaming, like, if you're part of our Patreon. And if we don't fill all of our slots, then our Discord members are the first people

to receive the next level of invites. If you want to come racing with us, have a bit of a laugh on the chat in the Discord as well, then, you know, check that out. The links also in the description. Also, we are big now on YouTube. When I say big, we don't, I don't be big. subscribers. I guess we're making content. Huge. We are on the, on the journey to 10K, and I optimistically said that we could do it before the British Grand Prix. You're letting me down

slightly, folks. But if you could go and subscribe, that'll be fantastic. We've got lots of different types of content coming out from full race reviews. The whole episode goes up after a race to specific topics that get put live as video format from the podcast. And we're starting making content that is different to the podcast. So you might not have heard. So I've just done a video on my own about talking about the ugliest F1 liveries that you have sent him to us on Twitter. Speaking of Twitter, you can follow us on their other social media channels, late breaking F1 podcast. We are everywhere.

Ben, where are we? We're down with the kids. We are absolutely everywhere. I'm sorry, I did just like freeze for a moment because I remembered your video, and I have watched the whole video on the liveries. and I mostly agreed with it, but the earth livery is the worst livery of all time. Oh, I am very much in disagreement with you on that.

Well, folks, if you want to hear my opinions on the earth livery, and I talk about a rather phallic object as well that gets involved with a certain livery as well. Oh, some of what you... You can tell it, just it tests spank. But if you're going to see that, then go check it out. It's on our YouTube channel, The Late Breaking F1 podcast.

It's on YouTube. We appreciate all the subs, the likes, the comments. trying to grow that because being honest with you folks, you can get great income from YouTube when it cakes off you and we want to make this a full-time thing that we do. So that's us being transparent. It helps us to grow and we appreciate all the love and support on there. We're going to be back in the week where the three of us will be here and I'm not going to give anything else away because it doesn't always go to plan. So that's it for now. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late.

Oh, good. Bye, everyone. Bye. part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.