The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Piastri vs. Norris: Who is the championship favourite?

Episode Date: July 13, 2025

With just 8 points splitting Piastri and Norris at the halfway mark, Ben and Sam break down who’s had the stronger start to 2025. They also dive into what’s next for Christian Horner, the Red Bull Ring’s contract extension, and wrap up with their Top 5 surprise podiums... >>> Tickets are now on public sale for our 2025 LIVE SHOW in Austin TX! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CLICK HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to buy now or for more info!

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It was just another holiday party until Michelle arrived with a chocolate basque cheesecake. Two rich cocoa's caramelized top, which Michelle claimed to have just whipped together. But the evidence told another story. An empty PC box, a receipt in her purse. All right, Susan, I bought the PC chocolate basque cheesecake. It was just $11. Can you stop true cramming me? Can I have another slice?

Try the season's biggest hits from the PC holiday Insiders report. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. It's hot. Guys, might be too hot. I'd start with that. Yeah, yeah, 30 degrees.

in the UK. Oh, we get it's hot here. Yeah, we get it. We get it. These houses aren't built for anything higher than 12 degrees. We live in tepid, okay? And tepid is happiness, but not here, not now. I'm sweating doing this podcast. Indeed, yes. Before and after shot might be necessary for our red faces as we go through today's episode. Has anything happened since I was off midweek? No, it's a very normal, calm week. Well, everything, you picked the perfect week. so got to be here. Indeed, yes, which is why our lead topic today is about how Christian Horner can save Red Bull. Sorry, mate. That, what that, yeah, that did happen. He got fired. Yeah.

We're going to discuss that a little bit more later on. Obviously, you and Harry did a wonderful job on the emergency podcast. I don't have the claxon noise, fortunately. But we've got a little bit of a wrap-up to do on that one. Red Bull ring extending their contract with F-1 until the 2040s. I don't like saying the 2040s. But we're going to start with Oscar Piastri and Lando Norris, because we are now officially 50% of the way through the 2025 season. And following back-to-back wins from Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri's lead in the championship has shrunk to just eight points.

Now, the next race we have in Belgium in seemingly seven years time, which is actually two and a half weeks, could be quite an important one, because outside of it being a normal Grand Prix weekend, we have got a sprint race. So we've just eight points separated. the two of them, if Norris were to put together a couple of good results, he could see a reclaiming of the championship lead going into the next race in Hungary. Of course, it could work

the other way as well. That work that Norris has done to reduce that gap could be undone by one bad weekend at spa. We're going to start positive on this one, Sam. We're going to start with Oscar Piastri. If we were reviewing Piastri season to this point, what has impressed you, what has stood out positively about his season so far? Yeah, Oscar Piaski. He's been a real surprise of the season for me. I argue he's really a hang of a curve as to what I thought he would be right now. I thought he'd be going to compete. I thought he'd be right up there fighting.

But because we didn't think that McLaren would be just this dominant over the course of the season so far, I really thought this was going to boil down to a more, you know, Lecler or Hamilton and Norris and Bostappen and Russell kind of story where Piastri might grow into the season a bit. By the end of the season might be there, if what better than what Norris has been achieving. But the way he's come out of the gates, If you ignore Australia where a mistake that they both made and he paid the price for, he's being there or better every single Grand Prix.

I can only really pick out Monaco as a real obvious where he is being properly off the boy on in comparison to his teammate. His qualifying has been brilliant, five polls so far from the first 12 races. That's nearly a 50% success rate, which is great. And he's also picked up the most wings so far throughout the season. And it's his race management that has impressed me the most. Once he does get out front, He knows where to use his ties at the moment.

He knows where to conserve his energy. He's able to manage this race far better than he was able to last season where he started to appear at the front of the order, at the front of the pecking order. And I do think that that's allowing him to have options if something gets thrown up as I expected. He's able to deal with the situation that is, you know, last year he wouldn't have able to or get caught him off guard.

I've also been very impressive when he has been on the back foot. Let's take Austria, for example, Whilst he didn't come out on top there, he was brilliant at hassling Landon Norris. He was really, really good at causing him frustration, staying in the game, not backing off, not losing pace, and ensuring that, you know what, I'll try something new.

I'll try and be bold. I'll try and be different to try and take this race victory. So we've already got strengths. We know the overtaking capabilities are fantastic. He's brilliant at cutting through traffic. But a lot of the time, he hasn't needed to because he's already been so far out in front. And that is what's been such a surprise for me this season.

Yeah, I know I've said this before in a previous episode, but I was wrong about what to expect from Oscar Piastri this season. And to be honest, regardless of whether he goes on to beat Lando Norris or not, I was certainly wrong about how fast he would come out the blocks in the first sort of 12 races this year. Because whilst there were some great performances from him last year, if you think of Baku and you think of Monaco was very good, even though that didn't end up in a victory.

His overall pace deficit to Lando Norris last year was significant enough where I didn't feel like that could be made up over the course of one season. I thought that would maybe be over the course of two seasons, depending on what the competitiveness of that McLaren would have been next season. But I just didn't think this year would be the year for Piastri to be on the same level as Lando Norris. And he absolutely has been.

I think if you look particularly at qualifying, You know, last year that head-to-head record was 21-3 in Lando Norris's favour. As far as head-to-head records go, that is an absolute mauling. And even if he was to make that, I don't know, 1410 in Norris's favour, that would have been an improvement from last year. But so far he is winning. He is 7-5 up in qualifying versus his teammates. And I know, you know, the race management side of things,

the composure side of things, is something that we have spoken about at length so far this year, but it does, it is worth repeating because that is what is, that is what I think is separating Lano Norris and Piastri so far. There have been a lack of qualifying errors from Oscar Piastri. Even his worst days tend to be the second row of the grid. And he hasn't panicked in certain situations like Saudi Arabian GP where Vestappan gets ahead of him. He knows a penalty is coming for Vostappan. he doesn't panic and he lets that race play out the way that it does. There wasn't any panic at Miami when he needed to make an overtake on Vostappen

to claim that win. He was ruthless but controlled at the same time. And then you think of Spain where he was very clearly the best driver on that day. And then there's a very late safety car that could have spoiled everything. He just remained calm and took that victory. So, yeah, many things to be impressed by Oscar Piastri to this point in the year. Well, stay positive, Sam, but now we're going to look at Lano Norris, because he is only single digits behind Oscar Piastri. What has impressed you about him so far this year? Yeah, I mean, it sounds really silly.

It's hard to be overtly positive about the guy that currently isn't winging between him and his teammate. It has less qualifying successes, has less race wings. But something that I want to point out about Lando Norris, and it's very specific, is his second half of the race pace that he seems able to deploy. he is regularly having to close gaps because he's either being outqualified by Oscar Piastri or he's been caught up behind the likes of Max Verstappen. You only have to look at what was going on in Silverstone, for example, where he was stuck behind Max Verstaffing and Piastri got passed

or the same can be said for the fight that was going on in Spain, for example. He was right with Verstappen for a while and managed to pull away and then starts to bring down the gap to the car in front. He has been excellent at this. And so often have we seen Piastri have a five, six, seven, eight, my boot shooting, baby, driving me crazy. Race lead, it has to be done. And, you know, suddenly it will start to come back down again, four seconds, three seconds. And he keeps Piastri in check.

Now, whilst I don't think he's got that ruthless ability to pass like Piastri does, when he does lead, or he is in front, he is almost mistake-free. So rarely does he cause himself a problem. You just have to look at Monaco to see just how well he manages a Grand Prix. He's got, you know, incredible drivers tucked right up behind him. Whilst Piastri is arguably having his worst drive of the season so far, very close to walls, overseer and underscrow at the same time, can't get a lap in that's completely clean. Norris is just chipping away, lap after lap after lap,

and that consistency from him is fantastic. The same could be said again in Austria. He leaves in Austria. It was a great performance from being Austria. He got that brilliant qualifying time, which I know was disrupted by the yellow flags, but the time was still going to be fantastic. And then to absorb the pressure, which we've heaped praise on for Piastri,

but that pressure was coming from Piastri in this instance. And the way that he held on, the way that he was, you know, half a second behind him for 20-odd laps, no mistakes, no give. And the moment he did get passed, straight back in front again, made the move exactly how we should have done, got the move sorted, regained the lead. We saw one mistake from him, and that was when he rang wide at the last corner, held on, no issue. So Norris is really matured. He's really growing as a driver.

We're not seeing as many, and for lack of a better word, Norris bottles that we saw at the end of last season where so often he have a bad qualifying or if we pour off the line. He too has developed. He too has grown as a driver. And that's why they're only eight points apart after half a season. Because right now, they're incredibly evenly matched. A bit of luck's gone one way, a bit of luck's gone the other.

That's what happens over a course of the F1 season. That will continue to be the case over the rest of the F1 season. But it shows you how good that McLaren team is right now that after 12 races, with sprint races involved, they are eight points apart from each other. I think Norris's season has been a little bit better than what people give it credit for, because whilst his mistakes have been far more obvious than Oscar Piastries, there is a reason that it is only eight points separating these two drivers. He is only one pole and one win behind his teammate.

This isn't this isn't Vastappan-Perez, this isn't Hamilton-Bottas, this is far closer to something like Hamilton-Rosburgh. These two are incredibly evenly matched across qualifying and race pace on most given weekends. Norris's consistency has impressed me, even though that McLaren theoretically should be somewhere on the podium, pretty much every single Grand Prix, it's still up to the driver to convert it. And he has done that on the majority of occasions. 12 races so far this year, he's been on the podium 10 times. And maybe more impressively is that nine of those have been inside the top two. So three quarters of the Grand Prix so far this year, he's either first or second.

He's made work for himself on certain Grand Prix, and there'll be more of that when we get into the more negative side of Norris this season so far. But he is still finding his way back into contention. The other thing is, I think after maybe or before Imala, when Piastri was having that great run of form. He has turned it around somewhat, even with that Canadian GP disappointment. You know, after seven races, Norris had one win, and that one win was the first race of the year.

Now he's won three of the last five. So, you know, if he can eliminate the errors, the pace is there. So there is still plenty to be positive about for Norris. If we're looking at areas to improve Sam, and we'll start with Oscar Piastri, what could he focus on for this second half of the year? He's still having occasional slips in quality, because that sounds like he's not good enough,

but in his consistency. And I think Canada comes up, right? Norris has a bad Canadian Grand Prix. And if that Grand Prix for Piastri runs the same way it does for the last eight or nine, he should be finishing first or second. Realistically, on average, that's where he's been finished.

all those other Grand Prix. But actually, for the majority of that Grand Prix, he's losing time to his teammate. He's falling into the clutches of his teammates, caught up behind the likes of Kimi Antigelli. He can't get through the battling front of the Stappen of Russell, that group that's going on in front of him. And that is a learning point.

That's a development that he needs to, whilst he is Ruthless, whilst he is brilliant, he still has hurdles to overcome. And I do think that had the crash not happened, there is a real chance that Norris gets in front of Oscar Piastri, and he's able to convert a better point scoring. And again, that gap might now be down to five points or six points, whatever it might be. So it's a little tweaks like that, but I think of the difference.

The other thing that he needs to be a little bit better at is safety car management. He's had his eye points, because as we were really spoken about, where in Spain, he had a late safety car and he managed it well, and his teammate didn't catch him. The opposite happened in Silverstone. He claimed that he did what he did in the second safety car on the first safety car but wasn't penalized for it. Well, that tells me worrying things. Actually, he didn't go at that point. I got away with that.

Let's not do it again. He did it again, right? And he picks up a 10 second time penalty. And now he's going from barely winging a race, winning many races to barely wing a race in the last three or four. And actually, it's Ladham Norris, who, as you really mentioned, has picked up, was it, you say, four wings in the last five? Three of the last five. Three in the last five, which is a big turnaround. for Lanong Morris, as you really mentioned,

the only, you haven't won since the first rate of the season. So, and that's based on a mistake by Piastri, who had that race in the palm of his hand. So whilst Piastri is not the complete driver, it is hard to nitpick because he's doing very, very well. He leads to championship. He's being pretty bulletproof. And his race management, which we mentioned,

his mindset is fantastic. I just think with the way that he was pleading with the team after that Silverstone safety car mistake, shows that he lost his head a little bit, shows that there is a bigger room for improvement. But it is minor. I am picking. I am being really, really picky over what he needs to improve.

Well, that you, Ben. Yeah, I think you have to be picky with the way that he's been driving so far this year. There just aren't any obvious things that he definitely needs to improve. I think in terms of qualifying, it's certainly not on the level of some of Lando Norris's qualifying errors, but he's maybe not absolutely maximising qualifying in the same way that possibly Vastappen or Russell do a little bit more frequently. He does have a number of pole positions so far this year, so it's not a glaring issue.

But if you were to look towards the Austrian GP, again, I know the second run was interrupted, but still at first run, he was quite a way off. You look at Monaco, you look at Miami where he was fourth there. There's still an opportunity, I think, to convert a few more thirds into seconds, seconds into polls. The other thing I would look towards tire management, he has become far better at this year versus last year. They're still on occasion one or two instances where he could improve on that.

Saudi Arabia, I do think he was genuinely struggling in that first stint, even though he didn't need to make an overtake on Vastappen, and I doubt he was trying to. He was still struggling a bit with tire wear when he got to the end of that stint. The other one, of course, the Austrian GP, it's a direct result of an error he made where he locks up the tires, that going further into that first stint and creating a real delta between the two of them for a future stint, that became unviable because of the lockup that he did.

Those tyres weren't going to go much longer after he did that. So, as you say, you have to be picky, but these are a couple of things he might want to look towards. Same question for Lando Norris. Yeah, Lando has had arguably higher highs, but definitely lower lows so far this season. And there are a few races that I can point to where unlike Piazari, where minor improvements are needed. There's some really obvious changes that I think Landon Norris can make. And if he makes those, I actually think he's far clear of Oscar Piastri. That's the difference. The first one that brings in mind, of course, is China, specifically the sprint race. Piastri goes on to figure

second in that sprint race. Norris is eighth. That's already a seven point difference. If that's even halved, the gap down there already in the championship is about three or four. And that was again, done due to qualifying mistake. That was a mistake. Was it right at the start of the race that he lost it? I think it was. Went wide. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And again, that was maybe race management there from Norris, whereas whilst Piastri could have closing on Lewis Hamilton,

that it shows you the difference in the early part of that season that Piastri didn't let that early mistake in Austria get to his head. He lost a lot of points in Australia. At that point, Norris has a 23-point lead coming out of round one. That's a massive game. That's a huge difference between title rivals. and almost immediately that gap is halved because Piastri walks away with 32 points combined.

Norris just 19. And that tells you that there's a lack of consistency there. That one can go from being run at the top to be very mid-table in terms of points. You know, Norris even will go away the second most amount of points that race weekend. That actually went to George Russell, who scored more than him, and he almost scored the same amount as Max Verstappen.

The next poor race comes at Saudi. Norris doesn't make it onto the podium there. He's fourth. picks up 12 points. Fiastri wins that race. There's a great job against Max for staffing in battling him, will to will, an issue where we've seen that Norris needs to improve there. And again, I just think the qualifying mistakes are what's hurting him,

if he hasn't got to battle through the really tough cars to start with, and we get more of Austria than we do of the likes of Canada, then he will be far close for his scoring far better points, and it is qualifying that is costing him more and more. Of course, the rash move in Canada, which he puts his hands up for, it's a total blame for. and well done to do him for being so immediately responsible, aware of the situation, I do give him credit for that.

That's cost him a huge haul. But nonetheless, he's still only eight points behind after that. DNF in Canada. He's not having a great turnaround. So fair play to him, it does seem like he's able to bounce back more where he was unable to last time, but it is qualifying that is mostly causing him pain when it comes to these races.

Yeah, I won't add too much on top of that because that largely covers the points that I had written down as well. certainly if you look at those qualifying errors. Probably the main thing I focused on with these is you've got Saudi Arabia, you've got Canada and Bahrain. Those are the three instances where he's qualified outside the top five in a McLaren, which is underperforming in Q3. In two of those races, Saudi Arabia and Canada, he might have been the quicker driver,

the two McLarens. I think definitely Canada. Saudi Arabia might have been close. It was tougher to tell because he had to make his way through the first. field. Barrein, I think Piastri had the advantage, but he is on a couple of occasions there wasted an opportunity where it's not just an outright pace deficit that's causing a difference in these positions. The other thing as well, in terms of eliminating errors, obviously the Canadian GP stands out as maybe the biggest error that either of them have committed so far this year.

That car is too quick and too reliable to make a lot of errors. And when I say a lot of errors, I'm talking like three. Because similar to Mercedes when it was Rosberg versus Hamilton, we often go back to 2016 and look at, say, the Malaysian GP where Hamilton retired, that was a massive swing in the championship. But because there weren't a lot of DNFs between them, because they were so often first and second, it means those errors are just highlighted way more.

This isn't like 1988, Sennar versus Prost, where you know that maybe you retire from the first race of the season. Odds are your opponent's going to retire four times. for the rest of this year. That's not going to happen here. These cars are bulletproof now. So those errors, you can't afford them. They're too consistent and too reliable to do that.

Final question on this one before we move on. Who's more confident at this point? I think Piastri. I think Piastri still walks into the midpoint of this season more confident. I've mentioned this a few times and maybe I'm wrong to do so. I think Norris is a form driver. I think Piastri is able to see through that and I think form is a little bit temporary for him

and he's able to just much like for Stapping in the sense that he drops whatever happened last race and goes race to race. He's just like, yeah, new challenge. I'll take it on. I'll try and win here. I think Norris needs the positive form. He's got it right now, right?

He's, as you mentioned, one three of the last five, he's one to two on the bounce. That for him is brilliant. To go into Belgium with two wings under his belt in a row, if he can then pick up a wing in the spring and maybe second place, Maybe wing, maybe wing again. Then he goes into the summer break that much closer to the league of the championship.

That's perfect for Lander Norris. I don't think Oscar Piastring needs that. I think he knows of what the most wings. I've got the most pole positions. I've outscored my teammate. I haven't crashed into my teammate. The one mistake I've made, proper mistake that I've made, was caused by me under a safety car, which I think he wholeheartedly disagrees with anyway.

I think he thinks that he's going, I've almost maximized this. I've almost got as much agamist season as I can. So Norris has bigger learnings, but I think Norris is very capable of overcoming those big learnings. Piastri just needs to find June. I've gone Piastri as well, because whilst he has only got one win in the last six Grand Prix, it's maybe a touch misleading when you look at, say, Austria,

he was in the mix. It's not like he was beaten handsomely there. He was in the mix in Austria. Silverstone, he had the lead. of the Grand Prix, it wasn't pace that caused him not to win that Grand Prix. You look at Imola, where neither McLaren Driver won, of course, but strategically Piastri went the wrong way, Norris went the right way. That could have easily been the other way round. So Piastri has the championship lead. I'd argue at this point in the season, it's not dramatic, but I think Norris

has actually been the slightly more fortunate of the two. So given Piastri still has the championship lead with that in mind, he should be confident going into the second half of this year. But So should Norris. Like, this is very much up in the air. Like, this is open for both drivers. It's so close, which I love. I'm so glad we've got single digits between our two drivers at the halfway point of the season. Because when you get a dominant team, it's very easy for one of these drivers to run away with it.

Right? And we get bored. Right. We saw with Verstappen. Yeah, it can just be down on both sides. So thank goodness that these two are so closely matched. Let's take our first quick break on this episode. On the other side, more on Christian Horner's X.

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In this tender and funny film about the importance of connection. This is amazing. It's cool, but it's fake. Sometimes it's okay to pretend. Rental Family, only in Theaters Friday. Welcome back, everyone. obviously covered on Wednesday as the news broke that Christian Horner after 20 years would be leaving Red Bull. Pretty dramatic news that I managed to miss out on some.

Amazing. You don't miss too many an episode, but of course you had some things to take care of. What were your thoughts, Ben? What were your instant reactions when you saw this going on? Shock. I was absolutely shocked. And I know that there have been maybe some rumblings and discussions about this. in recent times, but there was nothing to me that seemed imminent and nothing that seemed like really serious like this could happen soon. I was, I was blown away by this. What?

Blown out the water. Blown out the water, you were? Yes. But yeah, I was absolutely shocked by this one. Given Christian Horner has been, it seems obviously to say, but Christian Horner has been there at the helm for 20 years. And he has, I know there has been a lot of. success in that time. But he has gone through a lot of ups and downs in his career with Red Bull. He's seen everything. So whilst he has had the championship years of Vettel and Weber, and he's obviously more recently had the championship years of Vestappen, that accounts for

about eight years. There's still 12 other years where they haven't been winning. And he hasn't been fired in any of those 12 years. Like, they still had to endure times like their sister team winning a race before they did. That's a little bit important. embarrassing. 2014 to 2016, and I know that maybe was a bit more on Renault because of the engine deficit, but they had to endure a few years there of not winning a lot. They had some near misses more recently than that. Daniel Ricardo chose to leave Christian Horner and Red Bull, not for Mercedes, not for

Ferrari, but for Renault. That was massive at the time because Renault were, I mean, they weren't a back marker, but they were unproven versus Rockball. Comfortably mid-table. Sure. yet he survived all of that. And now we're in a position. So why now?

That's where we get to that question. What do you think has caused it? Is it the controversy that we saw over the last year? Do you think that's finally come around to bite him, despite going through two internal investigations, or do you think it's the performances, the Max for Stafford, situation, and ensuring that the team can perform as a whole?

I don't think the internal investigation, the more personal slash professional scandal. I don't think that's played into it, which, yeah, sure. I don't think that's played into it. I think it is, and I know there's a lot of speculation rampant about Vestappen, and has he and the family had anything to do with this? I'll be honest, I'm not saying that it has nothing to do with it. I've always been a bit lost and a bit, I've never quite understood it.

Because from my perspective, Vestappen, from a Christian-Hawner era perspective at Red Bull has got everything he could possibly want. He has been the number one driver for a large number of years. I don't think there's ever been a case of reason to be dissatisfied with a Christian Horner-led organization. It's never quite added up to me. I think this is more about next year. I think this is lack of confidence for 2026, because if you were confident in what you were building for next year, why wouldn't he be there? If you think of Christian Horner has been there in the buildup to 2026 and the new regulations. He's been in there managing the new power unit that's set to be introduced.

He's been there with the Ford partnership. There's a lot going on at Red Bull plus the new regulations. He's had control of that right up until six months before the go live date. I think you only abandoned ship or you only change course if you're Red Bull, if you are really uncertain how next year is going to go and you're not happy with the progress that's being made behind the scenes. Okay. So replacement, they've got Lauren Mecky's and Alan Permain is coming at racing balls.

Hilariously. What are your thoughts on them taking the helm? I think Laura Meckes is only doing the job because they didn't make this decision a year. ago and Jonathan Wheatley would have done it instead. I think Jonathan Wheatley was probably candidate number one if they had made this move when he was still there. And this might be a case of things catching up with Christian Horner, because I've always been uncertain as to why he's not been under more pressure than what I think he has.

Like, given, I know the success of the driver's championship over the last few years, but that has come with a repeated issue with the second seat, that personal scandal that we have, of gone on about, the departures of, as you, as you said in the, in the episode, the breaking news episode, the departures of Rob Marshall and Adrian Newey and Jonathan Wheatley, like, they add up. And I think they've probably got to a point where Mecky's and Permanain, I'm not saying they'll be bad in the roles. Absolutely not. Who else is it going to be? Like, yeah, yeah, they are lacking options unless they literally go and take something straight from, you know, another team. And they go, beg Jonathan Wheatley to come back perhaps,

but only half a season if I were about to come in, that would be a pretty shocking move. Is it the end of Red Bull in Formula One? Are they going to crumble? I can't see it. I can't see it. And weirdly, our next topic

might actually tie into this where we're talking about the Red Bull ring being extended until 2041. Of course, the Red Bull ring owned by Red Bull, not Ring. The, you know. Also, oh, Magering. Yes.

So I think that is indirectly a bit of an indication that Red Bull aren't going to go anywhere. I've already spoken about the Ford Partnership. We know that they are. I don't think you invest so much in building your own power unit to then potentially bail on it in a few years. This is still a team that has mega resources. It still has two teams. It's still right now has Max Verstappen. And even if it didn't have Max Verstappen, it has a lot of pulling power to get some other people

in. It still has a well-functioning junior academy. There's still a lot of drivers that they have in F-2 and F-3. I don't think they're going anywhere, but long-term, to medium to long-term. Short-term, am I concerned about what their competitiveness is in 2026? At this point, yeah, I am because of this move. I'm now worried that they aren't going to be on the ball. I wonder if they're not mid-table, but I do wonder if Mercedes, who has, who have been touting as the power unit to follow, the one that will be leading away, even Ferrari, who is Ferrari, and McLaren, who I don't think, well, let this dominance go without a fight.

They can easily slip behind those three. And if Aston Martin are as on it as we think they might be, and Williams under James Vowler's developing well, there's every chance that Rebel could be a midfield team for the first time in, what, since they joined the sport almost 20 years ago. Sure. I mean, they had one or two bad years at the beginning of the last. hybrid era that they maybe could have been considered top of midfield. But yeah, otherwise you would have to go back before 2009 for sure. I did have a question for you because I was unsure on

this one. One thing I was maybe a bit surprised by was the fact that he has, they didn't use the word, but he has been fired. Like he has been relieved of his duties. And what we often see with particularly senior personnel within these organizations, not just in F1, but in other sports as well, it's almost like a we don't want you here anymore we're going to kick you out you have an option we can go with that or you can save face and say this is by mutual consent there was none of that here no it's like everyone had the stats ready to go it was like this is going to sound awful it's like he died the way that he was parading around social media by red bull by formula one by racing balls the way it was kind of a thank you christian thank you for 20 years thank you for all your

hard work here's your statistics that were laid out obviously we're glad he hasn't died but it was a bit like remembering christian horner it was not a by mutual consent christian horner has left the business he's still employed by redball he's still an employee of red bull right now he did getting his leaving speech that's come out of the red bull factory he was allowed to give a leaving speech before being officially said sacked i do that in quotation marks if you're watching this on youtube And he says in that speech, operationally and professionally, I do not run anything, but I am still an employee of Red Bull currently, which is a very interesting distinction to make between being fired and being fired from your position but being kept in the business.

So I don't know what's going on there. I can't imagine they're going to instate him anywhere else. I can't imagine that maybe I don't want him to go anywhere else either, which is a really odd way to be, but be interested to see what he does next. There are rumours that he might try and buy out Alpine with some consortium members. Mark, you interested? That was my next question. What is next for Christian Order? I genuinely would love to see him restart a new project. You got to remember, despite when you think of him as a person, and there's definitely reason to look at him in a negative light as an individual, professionally in the Formula One world,

he is a bit of a powerhouse. He has, he's what, the most successful in the last 20 years. He's won the most titles. Yeah, if you were naming the best team principles of all time, you might not make it two hands. He's top, yeah, top five or six at least. You know, him, Toto, Jean-Tot. And then there's a few others that you can name in there.

Yeah, sure. And then you really start to get historic where you've got to look around. They do Frank Williams, you know. But these are, legends you're talking about. He knows what he's doing. The guy knows what he's doing. It comes to running a Formula One team. You got to remember before he ran Red Bull. He ran a GP2 team. And he was highly successful in what he did there as well. He's no souch. He's very smart. He knows how it can be capacitive. And whether you agree with his methods or not, and I can totally

understand why you might disagree with them, he builds successful sporting spaces. So if Alping are looking to get out of the sport, as we keep hearing the rumors of, and Flavio is maybe shaping up for a sale or something that can get him back into the mix of a different light, why wouldn't Christian Horner pair up with someone like Otmar and that consortium and go out and buy someone like Alpine to get him straight back in? There's also rumours that he might end up

being hired by Lawrence Stroll and end up running Aston Martin along with Adrian Nui and they may try a Brian Max for Stappen that way. Could you imagine? You're right when you say like Christian Horner, regardless

of what you think of him personally, his CV is more impressive than nearly anyone in his position. It's very rare that someone like Christian Horner is considered a free agent in F1. He has a winning reputation. He has a lot of experience in the sport. And he had a lot of control at Red Bull. We see as well. Yeah, yeah.

It's not like he was team principal and team principal only. Like he did a lot. So yeah, I think his next project, I think it will be in F1. I don't think it will be outside of F1. But I am quite convinced, we'll see, but I'm quite convinced that whatever his next project is is well fought out. I don't see him jumping at the first opportunity he gets.

Like if a team, there are going to be some guys in F1 who, let's face it, are not sought after enough that they might just jump at the next opportunity they find because they want to stay in the sport. I don't think Christian Horn is in that spot. I think he will wait until something he, deems to be worthy of his time, whether that's an Alpine consortium, whether that's another big team, I think, I don't know when he'll resurface, but I don't think he'll do it before it's the right time for him. You think he could take over Ferrari? I hope not. Oh, that will be a weird

timeline to living. As much as the Christian Hornet and Lewis Hamilton pairing does confuse and intrigue me in equal portions. I just, with what Fred, it's just Ferrari does not need help with dysfunction. Ferrari needs help with nearly everything. I was going to say in sport, in life, it needs help with everything, but not dysfunction.

And Christian Horner, for all of his strengths, could be seen as brain dysfunction, particularly to a team that has Lewis Hamilton. I wonder if they actually would get long, just fine. That's why I'm intrigued. Barry the hack shit and be like, you know what? Let's just go out there and kill them.

But they both love Fred Fusser. They do. I mean, everyone loves Fred Fusser. Sure. I think, but just with Charles Leclair and Hamilton's junior careers, they have a particular affinity towards Fassar. And he's been building something. I think it would be a shame to,

for Ferrari to just abandon that. At this point, you would be, and this is why it's so crazy at Red Bull, you would be silly to remove the, the head of the snake right before the new series is about to begin, right before the thing

they'd be building to, 20206, kicks off. Now it's too late, I think, which is why it's such a shock that he's gone from Red Bull. I know where he's not going.

Where's that, mate? Has. Come as who's going nowhere. Gene doesn't go in, make, it's where he is. I'll take I.O. any day. Yeah. Who's this Christian guy? Oh, Gene Has.

Right, let's take our next break on this episode. On the other side, the Red Bull Ring and its new deal with F-1. I'll be so old. So old. This Giving Tuesday, Cam H is counting on your support.

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F1 at the Red Bull Ring is to stay until at least 2041 following an 11-year recent extension. As I said before, I don't like saying things in the 2040s. So I'm not happy with this news. Are you? I'll be 46 when this comes to our end. Yeah. Whilst I feel perfectly fine about my age now, feeling like I'm going to be 46 for something

provides me with a lot of stress. I really don't have much hair. It will be gone, I'm sure, by that point, through mostly stress of the Red Bull Ring. Two minds here, two thoughts going on for me. One, love that we've got such an affinity with the Red Bull Ring. It is a brilliant racetrack. It nine times out of ten provides a belter of a Grand Prix. Formula One just works there. Fantastic.

I'm a little hesitant to be committed to literally anything for 16 years. You know, that is... Do you hear that, Rosie? We've got that. We're a while away, yeah, don't worry. That's a long time. That's a long time to... In the world, with what we're going through,

I'm surprised they're going to commit for that long. And I'm also surprised I guess Red Bull got a lot of cash to stump up for a contract for just that long. Because what happens if Austria goes with bloody eight motor racing? This is terrible. You know, in five years' time. What happens? No ticket sales?

What goes on? You know, things happen. Big and weird of things have happened. So I'm surprised that they've committed for so long. But out of all the tracks in this renewal-needed situation, I've been like Austria's got a longer lease of life because I really love it. I love the Red Bull Ring. I think it's a wonderful track.

and it for me is top five on the calendar. For me, it would be below Interlagos and Silverstone. That might be your list. Monza for me. I might take the Red Bull Ring. It's close, though. Point being, like, if you turned around or if anyone turned around to me and said,

I think the Red Bull Ring is the best circuit on the calendar, I wouldn't think you're crazy. I may not agree, but I respect your point. Yeah? I would respect that point. Point immensely, even if I just about disagree with it. So, yeah, I'm happy for it to be sticking around. Similar to you, I'm kind of like, I don't love committing to any circuit for that length

of time because we're not talking about what F1 will be in the next regs, or probably the regs after that, or probably the regs after that. We are maybe at this point talking what the regs will be in four cycles time. For iterations, yeah. Maybe. And we just don't know what racing is going to be like. obviously, like, one of the big strengths I think of the current track is how well they do DRS because they have nailed like how long that activation zone should be and how powerful it

should be because we do get so many overtaking opportunities into the breaking zones, particularly turns two and three, but very rarely are they slammed dunk over takes. But of course, we don't have DRS next year. So we've got no idea if the racing is still going to be great next year. I think it will be. but we are guessing somewhat. So, yeah, if any circuit is going to get an extension until the early 2040s, this would be up towards the top of the list.

It has been a fantastic reintroduction to the calendar since it rejoined in 2014. That is definitely, I know this doesn't count from much as well, but I love the backdrop as well. Oh, it's gorgeous. In a world where we've got such a move towards street circuits on the calendar that maybe at night look quite similar. This feels very nostalgic. Like, it doesn't look very different to what it did

when we race there in the 1990s. Yeah, it's kind of that sparr that pretty much to deliver similarities. I mean, talk about those kind of seeing venues. It's giving me of what I'm expecting to see then. When we go to Seattle, we see that football game. And, you know, that stadium has got the view out of it from one side.

That's kind of the same. what I get from the red ball ring. So yeah, all right, nothing it's going to be about. Just don't need to be about for quite... You know, the cars next year? Yes. They change, just depending on the way, if you're going to get a straight line or around a corner. Supposedly. This is a very niche reference.

Beg however if you're going to get this. In Men in Black 1... I won't. Kay tells Jay, who is Will Smith, don't press the red button. Of course, at one point in the film, he presses the red button. And the car, like, changes. and it goes into like warp speed and they can go on the roof of the tunnel. That is how I see the cars changing when they go into a straight line.

Is that what they will do at Monaco with the tunnel? I assume so. I assume they will drive on the roof of the tunnel. Can't wait for that. That sounds fun. What do you make of this recent trend of, because we've had the extension of the Canadian GP quite recently, the Miami GP as well.

We've got a few that now go into the late 2030s, early 2040s. And particularly with this one, Austria, its extension wasn't due up until 2030. It's not like it was around the corner. What do you make of this recent trend that we're seeing? I think tracks be run and scared. I think there is so much interest in Formula One currently and the commercial value of what Formula One is bringing,

both digitally in terms of Drive to Survive, TV rights, but also what it means for ticket sales, what that means for tourism increase, It's what it means for, you know, merch and interest in their location. Did the world know that much about the steering hills before the last 10 years? They were alive with the sound of music. I'm sure, though, if you ask most people who have heard, they'll seem the sound of music. And they went, did you know that's the same hills?

Most people wouldn't know that before the last few years of Formula One when they went, oh, that's where Max Verstaff and destroys everyone on a racetrack. And it's the same place where they sing, Doa, deer, a female deer. I think it's incredibly commercially viable right now for these tracks. And they're going, we've got Rwanda, we've got South Africa, we've got a lot of countries in East Asia who are looking at tracks like Thailand and possibly wanting a race track. There's more of America at the other place.

Get it locked in. Get it locked in, don't worry about it. Spend big now and recuperate it over the next 15 years. As in theory, the trends of Formula One becoming more and more popular will continue to rise. And it means that they gain more and more commercial value. by investing now, they're dillie-dallying and going, we've left it five years. And now F-1, which was worth $8 billion,

is now worth $12 billion, and it costs 50% more to pay for our place on this calendar. So I think that's why they're doing what they are. I understand it. If you're confident about the future of the sport and you're less confident about your spot on the calendar with so much interest from Rwanda, Thailand, South Africa, like, yeah, you want to lock it down for as long as you can.

on this deal. So I'm not surprised at all. From the Red Bull Rings perspective, like, it's very rare that we see European tracks extended by that length of time, which again, I think might go back to how much commitment Red Bull has very specifically in the sport.

Yeah, it's an interesting trend. I do wonder if it's going to continue with a few other circuits, maybe trying to get in on the action. I wouldn't be surprised. Before we go to our next break, We've had a massive uptick in Patreon subscriptions recently, so we just want to thank you for that. And if you're not already a member of our Patreon, please consider subscribing.

There's a lot of extra content on there. We do power rankings after every single Grand Prix, so that's where we will rate every single driver out of 10. We love making those episodes. An historic race review, so there's a poll every month where we put together four potential races that we're going to review. We've gone as far back as 1982. We've done some in the 2010s. everything in between. So that's on the middle tier of our Patreon as well. And we've got two episodes just like this every single month. And the catalogue is all there from previous months as well.

So you can go back and listen to some topics of interest that we've discussed in the past as well. So as I say, massive uptick recently. Come join us in Patreon City. We'd love to have you there. There's still plenty of occupancy. We're building flats all the time. Yeah, yeah. We're building new homes all the time, this government. So make sure you come on board. One million new homes every day if you sign up. Exactly. We stick to our promises here in Patreon City. Yeah, the links in the description.

We'd love to have you there. Let's take our next break on the other side. We've got a top five list for you. We should do top five, top five lists. Oh, good. Real meta. Yeah. Ontario, the wait is over.

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Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. Welcome back, everyone, to the final part of today's very sweaty episode. We're nearly there, folks. So are. I'm so hot. My go-my-go-h is well warm. Right? That's a decision for you, Kirstie. We're doing a top five list to round out today's episode, and that top five list is surprise podiums in F-1 history.

So this one was actually suggested to us in Discord, and if I had any sense, I would have had your username prepared so I could give you the shout out that you so desperately deserve, and I am going to make everyone wait, so we do have that. You deserve it. Your name is... God, why do you talk so much in Discord, people? Solem F-164.

Thank you very much for your suggestion on this. Of course, most recently, Nika Holkenberg's podium in inspiration for this top five. Surprise podiums. Where are you starting, Sam? So I'll be a little bit cheeky here because I've included wings as podiums for a couple. That's fine.

It is technically on the podium. In at number five, I've got Heikekova Linens' 2008-Hung-Aerian Grand Prix. Oh, for that. Yeah, I just, it's not that silly, but you've got to remember that Hakey only one race. It was that one Grand Prix. Lewis Hamilton was absolutely trouncing at the time,

and the Ferrari looked like it was really something special. But Philippine Masses engine went. And all of a sudden, sudden, it was Heikey Kovaligning, or babyface, as I like to call him, that suddenly inherits this lead and he brings it home. It was a major upset at the time. People didn't expect it. And he takes home his only victory. So I think it's nice to get a cut with a line and shout all his list. Yeah, absolutely. One and only victory. Got to be there. Number five for me, a very similar driver to Heikee Covalin. If you ask AWS stats about qualifying,

it and Senna, the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix, so his first podium. This was only his fifth F1 race in Monaco. He had a couple of sixth place finishes at this time, but he was with a Tolman team that was relatively new to the sport and not overly successful. So their first three years in the sport, Tolman had failed to qualify 33 times. And when they had actually managed to qualify, they'd retired 35 times.

So you're only left with 10 points they'd scored in those three years combined. But here in Monaco, Senna qualifies 13th, and he's nine tenths faster than his teammate as well. It's a very good effort. And it is absolutely chucking it down for the race. Now, of course, Senna's wet weather prowess has become the stuff of legend since this point. But at that point, it was a little bit more unknown. And this is the first real venture that we'd seen when it comes to Senna in the wet. Nigel Mansell held the lead at one point.

He goes off. Both Ferrari's struggling. One of them lapped in McKellé Arboretto. Nikki Louder in the McLaren, he retires from this race. This all leads to Alam Prost having a lead and Ayrton Senna chasing him down. And with just a few laps, well, a few laps to go in what was a shortened race, he manages to close right on the back of him and then eventually get past for what was seemingly the win when the red flag came out.

Unfortunately, with the red flag. bag rules. They went to the lap before he made the overtake. Therefore, he was classified second rather than first. But even so, excellent podium and would introduce us to what an excellent weather driver he was. I do just want to shout out in addition to this, Stefan Belloff, who finishes third in this race, but is then later disqualified. He's in a Tyrol that is also not deserving of being there. Technically speaking, he doesn't have a podium thanks to the later disqualification, but he still does an epic job here. What's number four on your list?

We give this gentleman a little bit of a stick occasionally on this podcast, and that is Giancarlo Fisie Keller, and that is his 2009 Belgian podium, which was in a Force India. I believe it is their only podium finish in Formula One as for senior as a team. Only pole position, I think. Ah, thank you, yes, of course, he secures pole, and then he holds off. the grid really really well, but Kimmy Riking is charging him down. And after a safety car period, Kimi Riking does get past him. But he holds on for second place and it's such an unexpected result because that force India has been nowhere. And forever was nowhere, really. It was such a

mid-table car that they might pop up here and there with a good drive. But for the most part, it was absolutely nowhere. Super memorable for them. Fisickela, who was kind of down and out in the sport at this point. He kind of gone through his Renault days where he was. with Alonso, of course, and did a really, really good job there. Almost got a Ferrari drive at one point. Properly concrete, long-term Ferrari driving was a bit, yeah, I got some technicalities in there, but it was a little bit grumpy about certain things. So this was a pretty immense weekend to pick up pole and then second place in a four

Sydney car. It will be a bit like, well, Giko Holkenberg taking pole position and then picking up a podium afterwards. That was kind of where that car was. Number four on my list. I love this top five because we can. jumped to many different... All over the place.

Yeah, exactly. So many options. Number four, Damon Hill at the Hungarian GP in 1997. Look at that come from. Wow. Where did that come from? It came from our historic race review that we are doing in July.

It won't be live quite yet, but later in the month, that is the race that we're going to be reviewing in full. So if you don't want any major spoilers, and if you haven't had the chance to rewatch this one yet, Patreon users, maybe just skip the next couple of minutes of the episode. But yeah, Damon Hill had been fired from Williams in 1996. He then responded by winning the championship for them,

which left him in a really odd spot as a free agent world champion. Not many landing spots available goes to Arrows, who had been in the sport since 1978. So this would have been their 20th season. But no wins at that point. Their last podium was 1995. Their last second place finish was 1985. And at this point in the 97 season, about halfway through, Damon Hill has and the team have one point.

He qualifies an excellent third place, only behind the top two in the championship, those being Michael Schumacher and Jack Villeneuve, gets a cracking start up to P2 with just Schumacher ahead of him, then makes an excellent move into term one, builds up an enormous 35 second advantage over Villeneuve, only for an error with the car, a few laps to go for Villeneuve. to catch him on the last lap, but he still holds on to P2 for an excellent podium for Arrows, which just was unheard of at that point, given the competitiveness of the car. Yes, it could have been an epic win, but still an epic podium. What's number three, Sam? That was number three. I won't drag on for you folks, but when you hear the words Arrows Yamaha, it's not exactly celebrated in terms of success in Formula One terms. You hear the drivers that he was up against during

that Grand Prix, world champion, Michael Schumacher, world champion, Mika Hackeen to be. There's a certain champion that maybe we shall have got the game because Harry hates him so much. First game, starts with the Jay, second name, England of Vilnev. And starts with it. You know, there were multiple race winners

hanging around him as well, Frankson, Coulthard. It was not like he was up against nobody's or scrubs. He was up against really, really tough opposition in a car that had barely been near the points all season. And this was incredible. Go back and watch that Grand Prix. A bit of a tragic story, I guess, at the end. It unraveled so quickly for him.

But really, really brilliant. That was like Exx & Welles. Number three on my list, I'm sticking in the 1990s, but going a little bit further back in the decade. So one of my favourite cars, one of my favorite stories, the French GP 1990, and we're talking Ivan Capelli here. So this was held up Paul Ricard, the last race. held at Paul Ricard until it made a reappearance in 2018.

But it's one of my favourite cars of all time. He's racing for Leighton House at this point. If you haven't seen it, folks, beautiful livery. Beautiful car. Essentially a rebrand of the March team at this point. And they have a little known lead designer who wouldn't go very far in the sport called Adrian Newey. But unfortunately, going into this season, the team is suffering with quite a few issues

with their wind tunnel that's based in Southampton. And the first six races of the season are awful. They have six do not qualifies. They have four retirements. They have a 14th place finish. And the absolute best they've achieved so far, a 10th place finish. Of course, back then, 10th place got you absolutely nothing with that point scoring system. So it hadn't been a great start to year.

The powers that be a late in house decided this newie chaps no good. We're going to fire him. That'll work. But before he was fired, he made some key changes to the, the car ahead of the French GP. They qualify seventh and tenth, so a far better qualifying performance than what they were used to. Aerodynamically, the car was a massive improvement from what they had, and they were going with what was legal at the time, a no-stop strategy. They were looking to not come into the pits once during the entire Grand Prix, and it was looking like it was going to

work, and somewhat did. They were running first and second with Capelli in first, and everyone's favorite, Maricio Googleman in second. But Prost and the Ferrari is chasing them down. He catches Googleman, who has to then go into the pits and eventually retires. But Capelli is still out there. Unfortunately, with three laps to go, Prost does overtake Capelli for the win, but he still holds on for second place. Capelli was suffering with engine issues towards the end. It would be the only podium he scored and late, it would be the only podium that Leighton House scored. It was the only points. that Capelli scored all year. So a pretty epic result.

Number two, Sam. Number two for me, it just happened. Purely out of emotional joy, whilst it was absolutely brilliant race to hold off the likes of a seven-time and most successful driver of all-time, Lewis Hamilton, to cut through a lot of the traffic

to get past straw in the way he did, it was severe rain, crazy rain, it was a crazy race. You watched it. You've all been there. I'm not going to drag it on for you. But seeing Nico Holgerberg, finally get a podium.

It completely a little part of me. It just made everything a little bit better in the world. And it goes onto my list because especially in the car that we've given so much stick to over the last 18 months, I never thought that would get a podium, ever. So that, and out of all the cars that you can hold a good word is driven, for that to be the one that he gets a podium in, it blows my mind just a little bit. So that goes comfortably on my list. Another one very much within the memory of people.

I've got a number two. John Love at the 1967 South African GP. This is another one. Yeah, I know, right? This is another one I love. So John Love was a very talented driver in the sort of late 50s and throughout the 1960s. South African driver never became a full-time F1 driver, despite the fact that he, I would say, had the potential to be one, but logistically obviously far more difficult back then. But he did pretty much always compete in the South African Grand Prix as a standalone race in a privately entered Cooper. Now, in 1967, it was actually the first, I was going to say the first F1 race held at Kyle Army. I believe it was the first ever race held at Kyle Army. But he enters this Grand Prix in the privately owned Cooper. And he qualifies a very impressive fifth. And alongside him is the

1964 world champion John Sertes. Ahead of him, you've got the 1965 world champion, Jim Clark, the 1966 world champion, Jack Brabham, and the soon to be, 1967. world champion, Denny Holm. So there's a lot of great talent around him and he still qualifies fifth. He finds his way into the lead in this Grand Prix and he's doing an excellent job. This is another one that is almost a near, it's a tragic non-win, but still an excellent podium. Because with a few laps to go, he believes he's out of fuel or running out of fuel and needs to come into the pits. Still finish his second with that fuel stop. And then at the end of the race, it's discovered he did have enough fuel to finish. The problem was a misfire in the engine that he

for was a lack of fuel, meaning he didn't need to stop and he would have gone on to win. But for a privately entered Cooper to go onto a podium at the South African GP, still an epic achievement that very rarely happened. That's a full callback, guys. It is indeed. What is number one on your list? We've got to go back to 1996. I was, but a one-year-old boy and you hadn't even been born yet because we're in Monaco.

And that is, of course, Olivier Pagas, and he's only victory in Formula One, and he's only, well, yeah, in top spot, especially at Monaco, a tough one. But listen to this, the race was chaos. Mortimerick, he crushed his 40, straight away. Yeah, he ruined the warm-up.

Doesn't even make it at the start. That's 21 cars on the grid. Hill overtakes Schumacher and set up. And you're already aware of the quality that we've got on this grid just by those two names. Yostafing slides into the wall instantly, well down Yoska's stuff.

The two Maldisies collide, which I live against both of them. And while Hill is pulling away, Shumacher loses control and hits the wall in Mirabow. So that's a world champ, future world champ out. A world champ at that time. Barrakello also spins into Raskas. He's out.

After five laps at this point, there were only 13 cars left in the Grand Prix down for 22. It's chaos at this Michael Grand Prix. Katayama, Rossett, Deguze and Berger. They all retire. Berger retires with a gearbox trouble, leaving 12 cars at that point. High total frankson has damaged his front nose on that.

another car out of the way. Martin Brundel spings off, leaving 11 cars at that point. Three hours later, Eddie Irvine is finally passed by Pannis at the Lowe's Harpin. That's right, folks, overtaking in Monaco. It is possible just 30 years ago. At the Lose Herpin as well. Yeah, at the Lowe's hairpin. Hilariously, Irvine loses control and becomes stuck. And he undoes his seatbelt before restarting with Marshall's assistance, which, of course, that's not how it works, guys. Can't do that.

No. Gingalesi takes the lead, which is hilarious because Djongolese never takes the lead. And basically, you know, also breaks down. It ends with five cars left and panises somehow, after a two-hour limit has been reached, is deciding the victor over David Kordard, who is still relatively new to the sport.

It's pure chaos. It's one of those races that's pure chaos. It was the last time a French driver won until Pierre Gasoli in 2020. It was the last time a French brand of constructive one. up until reygo in 2003 and it's the only time that muging Honda ever took a race victory so it was a pretty out there top spot um yeah that race is pure chaos and if you haven't seen it go and watch it because the cars just tumble and the way that you know lucca bedouca collides with vilner for example

is just crash after crash after crash and panace just carved his way through he just picks his way through really really well get some overtakes down moiko which is unheard of and takes the wing against such a stacked field. So, yeah, a really brilliant Momeko Grand Prix. Absolutely. Another brilliant suggestion. I'm going with my number one is Stefan Johansson at the Portuguese GP in 1989.

Of course he was racing for Onyx, and you're probably asking who on Earth for Onyx? It's a Pokemon. It is a Pokemon. It's spelled slightly differently, but it is a Pokemon. And much like Onyx, the Pokemon, it sounds far better than it is. This Onyx team were not very well known for good reason.

They could barely get out of qualifying. They could barely get out of pre-qualifying that we had back in that day, rather than just like main qualifying, because they had to jump two hurdles and barely jump both of them. But they did have Stefan Johansson, who probably goes down as one of the better drivers never to have won a Grand Prix. He raced for Ferrari and McLarenger in the 1980s, collected, I think 12 podiums in his career. So he came with a lot of experience at this

point, really useful to have him on board. He finishes P1 in pre-qualifying, because they had to go through that. And then his 12th in main qualifying, which is a pretty good effort for this team. But he's still like two and a half seconds behind at Ensener, who's first in quality. But everything just works out for him in the race. Nigel Mansell reverses in the pits because he misses his pit box, which is an automatic disqualification. you can't do that. But he is showing the black flag when he's overtaking her at center on track

and he decides, ah, well, I'm still going to try and overtake him. Why not? They crash out both. Which opens up the race a little bit more. But even at that point, Johansson's only set to finish, I think, fifth. And then both Williams are pulled from the race

because of overheating issues. And then suddenly Johansom finds himself in third. Onyx folded like less than a year later. And they'd never achieved anything like this again. it's just ridiculous. Like it was one of those late 80s, early 90s teams. They didn't have a lot of hope, didn't have a lot of anything, but on occasion found something,

and they found something on this day. God, what a story. What's the sake of stories we've given to the people today, Ben? Oh, we are giving people, aren't we? Right. That's going to do it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed the top five. If you've got, I know there are plenty that we didn't get to.

Oh, yeah. There's loads that just missed out my list. If you're going to get, so another day, would have made my list. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So let us know what you think could and should have been in our list as well. Come up with your own top five. Otherwise, Sam, we'll be back on Wednesday. Yeah, we'll be back on Wednesday.

Hopefully a little bit cooler and a little bit less sweaty. That would be delightful. Thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us on these non-race weekends. We know that obviously Formula One can be very dominant with how busy it is, but the fact that you still turn up and listen, even when it's a non-race weekend really does make the difference. And thank you for supporting your show.

We are bigger than we ever being. because of you lot listening, week here, week out. So thank you, thank you, thank you for your support. Back Wednesday, we'll chat more news, more F1, more topics, more games as well. And that's it for now. In the meantime, I mean, Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late.

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