The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Red Bull Racing to make their own engines - a good move?! | Episode 103

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

For your listening pleasure this week: the LB boys talk about Red Bull's new engine deal...with themselves, discuss the possibility of a second race in the U.S., and play a brand new game of F1: On The Clock!Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast. We are well within livery season now. McLaren have become the first team to reveal their livery. We've got both of the alpha teams coming up just around the corner. F1 is coming back.

Better believe it. My name's Ben Hocking, Sam Sage and Harry Ead of course, of joining me. How's it going, guys? There's light at the end of the tunnel. There is. One day, Ben, I reckon you're going to kick off these podcasts and not give someone a warm welcome, but you might give them a tepid welcome or a cold welcome. Because it's always warm, isn't it? It's always warm. I'm a warm guy. What if it's like, what if it was like a really hot welcome? Oh, I'm going to give you a scolding welcome.

Well, thank you. You've now given the listeners reason to tune in next time because they don't know what I'm going to open with. What word will it be? What are we talking about? What are we talking about? Well, that, that's it. I've actually got a few other things noted. Cheers. I've got a few other things noted down. Probably the biggest news since our last podcast is that Red Bull will be using Honda deals. It's been a Honda engine. It's been confirmed until 2025 that they will. essentially take the IP from Honda to use those. And then from 2025, Red Bull power trains, they will make their own engines. So we're going to be discussing that. And we'll be looking at the US market. Las Vegas and Indianapolis have been noted by Domenicali as potential destinations for a second race in the US. Can they break through in the market? It's been something they've

trying to do for a long, long time. And we'll be discussing whether Ricardo is a big step up from Carlos Sines as a teammate to Lando Norris that's after something. He is taller. We're not only going to be discussing height, or at least I don't think... Is that because he's always stood on a step? Possibly.

He needs to step up to get into the car, don't he? The shocking truth later in this episode. And we've also got... We've also got a brand new game as well, because we didn't have enough of them as it was. F1 on the clock. You'll have to wait and see what that's all

about. But first of all, we will kick off with the Red Bull news. So yeah, they'll be using Honda engines until 2025 when the new regs come in. And at that point, they'll be making their own engines, thanks to Red Bull Power Trains, their newly created company. So Sam, this plus the engine freeze that's going to happen over the next couple of years. What's your response to this? I was pretty shocked, actually. And I don't know why I was shocked. It's just Red Bull crew have done literally anything, I suppose. Every option was as wild and west as it could possibly be. That is the saying, folks, look it up,

in the dictionary of sand. They could have become Red Bull Ferrari. They could have become Red Bull Porsche. They could become Red Bull Ford or Toyota or any other racing team of the world that makes their own engines. But they just went, well, I'm under again, thanks.

Which is sensible. It makes sense. They've got experience in the sport. They've regularly fitted the Engines, obviously, for their previous cars. And Honda of Dunkin, Scholl is working with Red to bring that engine up to speed. It was not too far off the pace of the top guys at the end of the 2020 season. So it does make sense to keep them on board.

What's interesting is I'm sure they won't have the Hodge support after this season. They have to do it all themselves. That's really interesting because Ben, you'll have to tell me if I'm wrong. Probably and it's me. But there is a small chance in my mind that this could be the first ever non-constructor to make their own engines technically after a certain time period. And that's what they're doing. They are, after a period, 2025, I think they're going to bring it on and make their own engine.

So Red Bull, the energy drink supplier, that the company that have those silly adverts that are all cartoons where wings come out your back when you have a drink are going to make Formula 1 engines next to Mercedes and Renault and Ferrari. And that's all we've got at the moment. Yeah, good. So, you know, I'm pretty surprised. That to me is pretty shocking. And, you know, balls to the wall. Go on, Red Bull. I'm impressed.

It is gutsy. It is ambitious. It's going to cost a lot of money. But it could really expand their modes of sport ventures. And I think it's great to see them giving it a go. I'd like to see someone like McLaren give it a go. Maybe that's what gets them back on top. So they can't have gone anywhere.

They've stuck with their guns and they're going to take it on themselves. And I kind of love that. And I'm really excited to see where it goes. So, yeah, bring it on. What are your thoughts on this, Harry? it's an interesting time for the team I mean I concur with Sam on the bold or balls to the wall that's a great saying

should be said more often yeah absolutely bold from from Red Bull this is not the cheapest option for them you know one of the could have been pulling out the sport or you know being a customer team again yeah so fair play to them they obviously think they can make it work I think I've read that Honda are working flat out on their 22 engine.

So theoretically next year they should have an engine that's, you know, basically a Honda. I know it will be a Honda's anyway, but a ready-made Honda engine ready to go in next year's car. And then after that, they're kind of on their own. But yeah, absolutely fair play. And I hope it works out. And, you know, we get Red Bull out the front regularly, you know, which is the trajectory they're currently on with Honda. and I hope they can continue it. Yeah.

And to be, to be, we, we give rebel a lot of stick and fairly, because they treat their drivers like rubbish sometimes. But they do a lot for the sport. And if they had taken the cheaper option, one of the cheaper options which was to leave, they'd take an Al-Fatari with them, and we'd be down to 18. So you've got to respect them for actually staying

and, you know, what they do for F-1 in that sense. So, yeah, I'm glad it's worked out. I'm glad that the F-1 teams could come to an agreement on the whole engine freeze. Yeah. I hope they call them Red Bull Mugans or Supertex, because otherwise it's a wasted opportunity. Yeah, this is true. And yeah, like you say, we have avoided a situation where we've gone down to eight teams,

although I have heard that there is a new team on the horizon, this rich energy racing team. Oh, God. Sounds like an interesting venture. We'll have to see how it turns out. Mr. William's story leading that one. He likes to tell a story, isn't he? He sounds like the top fellow.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the only mention you're getting tonight, Mr. Story. Moving on. So to use another phrase involving walls, they were very much Red Bull, backs against the wall. They found themselves in a really difficult situation with what Honda,

with what's happened with Honda. You see, they leave the Renault deal. They get this Honda deal, I think was a brilliant move from them. And I think we can all agree that the Honda leaving thing, even though it's something they've done three or four times before, I still think it was fairly left field. It was unexpected. And it left them in a real quandary as to what they need to do. Because yes, we are long enough away from 2025 that they could have got something sorted out and have got something sorted out. But at least in the short term, I'm looking at 2022 to 2024, Red Bull were in a really difficult situation.

And I think it is miraculous how they've managed to turn a situation where they were definitely up against it to a situation where I actually think they benefit more than any other team on the grid. I'm not quite sure how they've pulled it off, but I really think they have. First of all, they've secured the Honda edges. So that's the first step and they haven't had to go back to Renault. I think realistically, I think realistically, they had four options going into this year. They had option one, which was the Honda option that they've chosen, which for my money is

absolutely the best choice. Go back to Renault, where the relationship was absolutely dire. Go for another team, another engine manufacturer to come in really late into this hybrid season, which would not have worked well. We know how much Honda were affected by just losing out by two years. And then the fourth option was to leave. So absolutely the best thing has happened here. And not only have they managed to secure what I think is the best deal, that's not even including the fact that all of the engines are going to be frozen at the end of this year.

The performance is going to be neutralised. Now, what happens when engine performance is neutralised? You find yourself in a position where aerodynamics become ever more important. Who's fairly good at aerodynamics? Red Bull. How they've managed to get themselves into this situation? I do not know, but they are playing to their strengths. So fair play to them. I agree with what you say, Harry. They do get stick and rightly so for some of the things that they do.

But ultimately, it's an energy drinks company that will be making F1 engines in 2025. There are so many automotive companies all over the world that have not flocked to Formula One for various reasons. And the company leading the charge, the new engine. for an engine manufacturer in 2025 is an energy drinks company. That does deserve a lot of respect. I really hope they do use the marketing slogan, Red Bulls to the Wall. I would absolutely love to be that. We're going all in.

Looking at us do it, it's classic Red Bulls to the Wall. What happens in 2025 when at the start of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, because of course it will still be there, one of the red bulls sort of takes off because they've actually put wings in their engine and it's just flying around Australia what happens then me who's fought flying one yeah for me the bulls to the wall red balls to the walls I'm gonna tweet him you cannot convince me that this is a bad idea this is absolutely got legs

In terms of the freeze itself, all engine manufacturers will have this season to develop, and then from 2022 to 2024, everything is essentially even. What are your thoughts on this, Harry? Do you think this will be good for Formula One? Well, it depends what state we're in by the time we get to the end of the year. If we're in a state where there's some end, I don't see it happening, but if there's an engine manufacturer that is light years ahead of everyone else, then good God we're in a state of badness going for the next few years.

But I don't think that will happen. In terms of cost cutting, which near everything I'm trying to do. Good idea. This is another good step in that in the right direction there. Yeah, I think it's just as long as we don't get some massive discrepancy between the engine performances, which, as I said, I don't think it will happen. Then, yeah, I think it's a solid idea all round. Let's just keep it even.

take out more at expense, you know, the smaller teams can't afford and they can put elsewhere. It can only be a good thing in my eyes, I think. Yeah, and obviously this wouldn't be the first time where engine performance has been frozen. We saw this at the end of the V8 era, and it is for my money it seemed to work all right. What are your thoughts, Sam?

Do you think that this will be of benefit to F1? I'm really glad you asked the question again, because I have one, didn't listen. and two I expect it. Good, thank God for that. Are you too busy tweeting Red Bulls to the wool?

Yeah, guys get over to at El Breaking at something. They give it a return. He literally has been doing that. Yeah, that's what I've tweeted to Red Bull, the company that we watch race. So, do I think it's a good idea? Yes, I bloody well do.

The amount of times that we see ancient power absolutely dominate, the amount of times that all of a sudden Ferrari turned up after a summer break and they've got like 60 more brake horsepower down a straight. is a bit weird. So the fact that engine can no longer be changed,

and I feel like this is the closest engines of being for a long time. Renault and Honda really caught up to Mercedes. Ferrari have dropped so far back because they're now pretty bang average. They really threw away the air advantage that they had at the wrong time. But I also think it means it puts a lot more focus on the engineers, the aerodynamics, and the brain power behind those departments. But also your driving style,

you've really got to maximize where you do get that traction, that power down where you're going to open those possible ERS modes that we have available. I really do think it becomes important and I'm really excited to see those results. Bring on the engine freeze, see what happens. It's all going to be about those new downforce supply cars, which, by the way, I think the capsule is stunning. I'm really excited to see what happens if they get brought in next season. I think 2022 could be one of the most exciting Formula One seasons we have had for an absolute generation.

Yeah, and I think like I've already said, I think the freeze definitely benefits the likes of Red Bull. I was initially very surprised that this actually went through. Obviously, the teams had this vote on this about a week ago, and it passed. And the only way I can see that happening, and there have been rumours that this has happened, there's been nothing confirmed, that at the end of 2021, there will be some sort of performance.

Everyone's performance will essentially be set to even, and it will stay there for the next few years. So where you end up at the end of 2021 isn't necessarily where the engine performance will be for the next few years. First instinct that this is the case is that why on earth would Ferrari accept this without having that in the locker? We know that Ferrari have got this veto over any rules that come past their office. So, you know, they've got that in their locker that they can use that at any time they like. if they didn't have this clause in there where the performance was equaled at the end of this year, then they'd be stuck behind everyone for a few years based on how bad the Ferrari power unit was in 2020.

So I can only presume that there has been some sort of unofficial agreement at the moment that that will take place. I can't see any way Ferrari would have accepted it without that. And the ironic thing is, and I think this is just brilliant, that if there is a team, probably Ferrari where their power unit is down on performance compared to the others and they need to bring it back in line with the others. The way in which they will probably do that is with fuel flow, which is the thing that got them caught out at the end of 2019, which is just brilliant irony. I mean, talk about irony if we found ourselves in a situation where Ferrari legally were able to catch up with everyone by using the same thing that gave them the advantage a few years back.

Yeah, I think in terms of cost cutting, this will work. And as I sort of referenced before, this has happened prior. This happened at the end of the V8 era, and I think it worked well. So I'm more than up for trying this. Let's move on to the United States of America. There has been, yeah, we have to do it. There's been a Formula One race there for quite a while now. Now they've been in Austin, the circuit of the Americas.

for, it must be about nearly 10 years now. But there has been talk about a second race in the country. There has been talks about Miami for a couple of years now. But on a call the other day, Stefano Domenicali also brought a few other names in, namely Indianapolis, where of course Formula 1 have raced before, and Las Vegas, where F1 have also raced before. So, Sam, I mean, this is perhaps a wider question of the F1 market in America. Can they crack it and can they do that with the hell?

of the second race. I mean, America, right, the great states, the great Western land, Lang of the Three. It has some absolutely brilliant racetrack. Some of the best in the world. We named them very recently on one of our podcasts. So, you know, scroll back, looks for it. Have a listen. Give us another download.

That would be lovely. And we talked about how many pretty ones there were. Ironically, Cota pruning up one of the best ones. And the other one mentioned in this conversation about Caesar's Palace, Las Vegas, that area. bit of a car park. If you want to leave the cars there after, Indianapolis or something, driving back down the coast or whatever, sure, love that.

But there are some great tracks there. And the Indianapolis, especially if you want to keep it up with the banking, you do the internal track. It's brilliant. Of course, we used to race at the indie track, a different layout. We used to race there,

and that was fantastic. One of my favorite races when we were there. Daytona's there. You know, there's so many brilliant race tracks that either haven't been created that have been suggesting or currently get run by NASCAR and IndyCar. America or a nation that love racing. You know, the issue is,

America aroundation that love racing in a completely opposite way to the rest of the world love racing. And I think, and that isn't a bad thing. We have lots of lists as in America, so. We do. Stop yourself. It's not, I'm just disclosure.

I'm on more on your side. I think that these two. I love it. America. But America, like myself, are loud. We like to be in your face. We like to talk about things

in a brashing, entertaining manner. We like to widely generalise loads of people. Yes. Come on, America. You and me together. I'm all for freedom. Honestly, America could run its own championship.

I think that's obviously with two other categories of racing. And that's a brilliant job of it. Indycar is becoming bigger and bigger over here. Three, we love Indycar. It's really, really good. And I do think that the sport needs to maybe adjust a little bit if it does want to grow properly in America. NASCAR is huge in the southern states.

And IndyCar is big, but it's not as big as big as NASCAR is. And I think if F1 walks to take over both of those sports properly, it does need to invest a bit more time and energy into its American demographic, it's American market. And you look at the people that like NASCAR, you look at the types of people that like IndyCar, and they love it for a certain reason. F1 doesn't match a lot of those. reasons. So I think if we are going to grow that market in the American area, you do need to look at

those demographics and what appeals to them. Let's have breaks. We've got that on our side. But, you know, we've got the tracks. Let's just maybe adjust a little bit of entertainment facts. Why not have a bit of fun while we're there? Why not be a bit loud and a bit fun and get the announcers back here and have Paul Tracy the potato talking or something? You know, you don't need that. You can have a great time. You can have a great time. And I really think that if one could be successful. It's successful in 95% of other places, why not in the States? So yeah, bring it on. More tracks there. We can do it. What do you reckon, Harry? Do you think a second race in America would help the cause here?

Yeah, I absolutely do. And like Sam said, America's big enough and has enough tracks to host its own championship as it already does. So another one, another race in America would absolutely make sense for F1. I mean, I'd love to go back to Indy. I think, you know, it was obviously tarnished by the 05 incident.

You know, we've moved on for that. We're 15 years down the road. 16, some would say. Well, 16, yeah, for a good point. Yeah, and, you know, I think that's been a great racing there. It's in the Indy road course is home to one of the best races I've ever seen with Mr. Pajano and Indy cars.

So, yeah, I'd absolutely go back there and, you know, there's other great tracks as well. But I think probably that's the most realistic one, I don't know. Obviously, Miami Street races, etc. Maybe on the cards. But, yeah, I'd be awful going for another race in the US. I think there's, you know, I'm almost so surprised we've not, you know, F-1's not done that already. I know it's struggled to break into the US market, but why has that not been a tactic done already,

or more regularly? So, yeah, I'll be absolutely down for it. Let's do a whole summer in the US. Let's do it the month of May. No, we won't take that away from them. But, yeah, something like that would be cool. If sports in general, just call it of sports, wants to hire us through to go over there and tour the States

and bring F1 to the world, I am very much up for it. I think that would work. I know it definitely wouldn't. They've got that car, haven't they, with the three seats? The one that drives and the two that sit behind. That could be us three. Oh, geez.

I mean... Where's Mario Andretti going to go? This is true. We can bring him along. We can hold on to the wing. Late breaking and Mario Andretti tour the US. Honestly, this has got legs. This is great.

So, back to more slightly. more serious things. Would a second race in the US help in terms of the US market? F1 have been going to the United States since, well, technically since the start of the championship because the Indy 500 used to be a part of the Formula One calendar, but the United States Grand Prix has existed since the late 50s, and they've always had a presence in America.

And for whatever reason, despite all of this time, they haven't been able to crack the market. It just hasn't happened. And, you know, it's definitely very appealing from Formula One's perspective to get a real place within that market because everything's kind of set up and all ready to go. We know that the Americans have an appetite for motorsport because we can see it in the likes of NASCAR particularly, but also IndyCar as well. I mean, the infrastructure in terms of the circuits, it's not as if anything needs to be built.

There are, as Sam said, plenty of circuits already, raring to go that are great top-of-the-class circuits that we can use. In terms of the television companies, terms of sponsorship, everything is ready to go for Formula One in the United States. But for whatever reason, it's just never worked. And for me, before they can solve, they need to work out what it is they're trying to solve because they've tried this. before, they need to work out why they haven't cracked it in the last 50 years to work out how to crack it now. Ultimately, they've been all over the country. You know, Watkins Glen, they were there for a very long time. There was a period in time where they would consistently have two races in the US where they'd have one race at Watkins Glen, of course, in New York State,

and then one in California at Long Beach. So they covered both sort of parts of the the country when they did that. They've been to Phoenix. They've been to Dallas. They've been to Detroit. They've been to Indianapolis, as we've already said. They're in Texas now. So they've been all over the country and it still hasn't worked. Why? If you can answer that, then maybe you can start to make some progress here with this latest efforts. You know, I've, it's tough. There are other markets around the world that maybe would be more appealing. You know, they've been trying with China for 15 years. Guan Yu-Jo is potentially on the cusp of Formula One.

They've tried with India, which was relatively unsuccessful, only went there for a few years. So I definitely wouldn't be opposed to it. F-1 do seem to have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to the US. You've already referenced the Indianapolis debacle of 2005 and, you know, Caesar's Palace. that happened, which was a shame. So they need to stop shooting themselves in the foot. But yeah, sure, let's give a second race ago. I think Indianapolis for me would be where I would want to go.

But arguably a street race would be a bit more inclusive of the people that live within the city and might create more of a buzz than a circuit would, than a specifically designed circuit would. So I'm up for both, though. Before we go on to the next topic, Sam, if you wouldn't, mind, a quick word from our sponsors' Manscaped. This is how I know that being America have a lot in common, right? Kings of marketing.

That's why we always had it over to me. Oh, God. So, folks, you saw last season that Valtred Rossas made the lawn mower so successful. He trimmed the grasses of Austria. Well, you know what? There will be listeners. I want you to trim the grasses of yourselves in your man gardens. And we have been very kind of sponsored by Manscape.

Yes, the shaving, lovely, It's for your balls. Red Bulls to the walls. We're getting a morning today. Essentially, it's to make your down bits look pretty. And to keep you healthy while you're going through a rather difficult period on this earth that we're all going through. So do yourself a favour. Hang over to the website, manscope.com. Use the code late 20 for 20% of any order. And it helps out the channel big time. We get 10 orders for that code. They will invest into the company a little bit and give us a bit of a paid deal instead of just a code, which is really nice and you do a massive job helping us out. So big love, very kind of them and you. Have a little look. If you like it, give it a go. If you don't, enjoy your big garden. Some people will like one. If you don't like it, you didn't hear from us. Honestly, I've said this before. I know what you're going to talk about, Sam, but the way in which you're going to get there, I can never predict. I'll take that as a compliment, you know, Ben. I don't mean it as an insult. You're talking about a guy who literally tweeted, on our own, account less than 30 minutes ago, hashtag bulls.

So, I don't know what I should have. This is fair. Need to work on getting you locked out of that account. Anyway, that's a good reminder. We will now move on to our third topic, which is looking at Lando Norris and his teammate Daniel Ricardo for the 2021 season. So Lando Norris has said that Ricardo isn't necessarily a big step up on Carlos signs.

I don't think this was meant to be a horrible comment. in any way, but he kind of referenced how both Carlos Sines and Daniel Ricardo had their own strengths and weaknesses and he doesn't necessarily think Ricardo joining the team is a massive step up from what he had in his teammate for the last two years. So Sam, would you agree with this

or not? Carlos Sines is a really, really, really good racing driver. I have a lot of time for Carlos Sites. I think he is one of those people where people like Lewis Hamilton, Kavangang are already tipped up, right? They're always so good. And Lewis Hamilton has improved. Like, we see a different

Lewis Hamilton now than what we saw back in 2007. He's got more hair for a start. But Carlos Sites came in and he was, it was good, right? Carlos Sites was good. Carlos Sites then kind of tried to move up to Red Bull, followed a stop and never really happened. He went to Renault and his career plateaued a little bit.

He didn't get that leg up, but I think he wanted. I think a few people lost a bit of spirit with Carlos Sites. They didn't have the same respect from that they once did. And then he moved over to that McLaren drive and he unleashed the, I'm going to say it again, the ball, the Spanish, balling sign of him. He really was able to, you know, to kicking up a notch. I think he led that team. So, I think Lando's got a point when he says that Carlos Sites and Daniel Rikano are too

different, you know, that Ricardo is not too much for a step up from Sites. I understand why he's saying that. I don't agree, though. Carlos Sikes, for me, is still very premature in his career. He's still very early on. He's still got a lot of developing to do. And I think in four or five years time, don't get me wrong, there's every chance that Carlos Sites might have a few race wings on his belt and he could be at the same level as Daniel Ricardo. For me, Daniel Ricardo is still one of the best drivers that we have seen in the last 10 years in Formula One and we've got multiple world champions going through that list. We've got more race winners than him in that list. I think he's very much up there and can really hold his own. I think what he brings

to a team is quite unique, is quite magnanimous, said that without stuttering. You know, he genuinely has got an aura about him that I think really helps teams. And after two years at Renault, there was a boost. there was an improvement. Did Carlos Sikes do that? No, he didn't. Could Carlos Sikes take the move from Tora or so up to Red Bull? No, he couldn't. There's a reason why Carlos Sites has not had the same results

at almost exactly the same teams that Danyu Rikago has had. Danguco is a step above. He is a real class act. And I do think that Lando Noris is trying to show that he's a bit big for his boots. He's trying to show that he can deliver a performance. And he can, but Ricardo is that proven race winner. He can hold onto a car when it's struggling. He can pull a car up when it's not as good as it.

to be. He could beat world champions when he needs to do so. Ricardo is genuinely a great driver. And I think he's going to bring some real exit to McLaren. I think Landon Norris needs to not underestimate Ricardo, even though it's his first season. Ricardo is going to bring it. Ricardo is brewing with confidence. And I think it's going to be really fun to watch. So I think that Ricardo is a step up from science. I'm not saying that science can't get there at some point in the future. But I do think right now, Ricardo is the better driver. very good and i think probably a good time to mention now that with norris versus ricardo that debate that will form part of next week's main topic teammate wars the fifth installment would you

believe it is back so yeah unbelievable so fifth installment of teammate wars next time out we'll be discussing all 10 teams we'll be looking at them all and saying which of the two drivers will finish ahead in terms of points so it's interesting it's a bit of a little bit of rubber match because, you know, Sam, he's got, he's got two wins under his belt. I've got two wins under my belt. Harry will be there as well. It's going to be... That is so late breaking, isn't it? Sam and Ben getting things right. Harry's just there for the laughs. They have a good time. I am pretty certain this is your year, Harry.

Oh, I'm not. It's the biggest of 20-21 so far. Yeah, so teammate wars will be up next week. So Ricardo, do you think he's a step up from Science? It isn't according to Lando Norris, is it according to you, Harry? Who knows what I think? Yeah, inclined to agree with Norris. He is a step up.

I think that's, yeah, he is a step up from science. He's a proven race winner. he stepped on the podium more times than signs has. He has that experience. But, you know, in terms of raw speed, signs and Riccardo, I don't think there's much between them, if we're being honest.

Over the course of the season, I think I'd place my money on Danny Rick. But I can see what Norwich is trying to say that. I think in terms of coming into the team, Ricardo is still new to the team. It's kind of Norris' team now. I don't think it's going to be huge. huge issue for Norris.

I don't think he's going to see it as any kind of a different battle. If it was a world champion walking into the team, if it was Hamilton or even maybe Vettel, I know he's not a champion, but maybe Vestappen, maybe you can see it differently. But I can understand his thinking here. I think they're probably on paper in terms of raw speed. They're probably very evenly paced.

I think where... I think signs versus Rekkaida, I think where Ricardo probably will be, not Norris more is probably on Sunday. I think, you know, Norris has good Sundays. He perhaps sometimes struggled in quality, but he has good Sundays, as did signs, but I think Ricardo is mega on a Sunday afternoon.

So, yeah, maybe there that he'll Norris will struggle against him. But, yeah, I don't think there'll be a huge man between them. But I know nothing, so Ricardo will fully smash him. I think here that Lando Norris perhaps unknowingly has actually put quite a bit of pressure on himself because he against Carlos Sines, he was very competitive last year. Carlos Sines just about won the duel between the two of them, but, you know, it was basically 50-50 between them last year. And by saying that Ricardo is not a massive step up, he's almost saying that really he should do as well against Ricardo as he did against Sands. So if he's not matching with Ricardo or just losing to Ricardo, then suddenly his statement is like, well, you said at the beginning of the year he's not a massive step up. So why are you losing to him? So I think he's actually, I think unknowingly put a little bit of pressure on himself there. And there is the other factor as well that Norris and Synes join the team at the same time. Norris is the established McLaren driver here. So that actually eases the pressure on Ricardo slightly and again puts a bit more pressure on Lando.

I'm largely along the same line of thinking here, as you've already said, I don't think he's correct here. I think Daniel Ricardo is a step up from Carlos Sines, and that's more of a compliment towards Ricardo than it is an insult towards Sines, because Sines is a very good driver, and he's shown that over the last few years. But what Daniel Ricardo has accomplished in his career, in terms of performance and in terms of the actual achievement at the end of that, it supersedes anything that Sines has done.

and it's understandable considering the teams that Ricardo is driven for. But yeah, I think Ricardo is definitely one tier up from where Carlos Sines is if you were going to sort of rank the drivers. Bear in mind that Ricardo, and I know that Carlos Sines did have quite a bit of bad luck in his opening year against Max Vastappen, but there are shared teammates here. Ricardo did a pretty good job against Max Vastappen. I don't think there was anything in it in the three years. I think the points tally is almost identical from when Ricardo.

and Vastappen were teammates. Signs did lose to Vestappen quite comfortably. Again, there was luck in that, but that remains. They both went to Renaud, and they both faced Nico Hulkenberg. One did better than the other. You know, Ricardo did a brilliant job in that sort of first instance, and signs lost to Holkenberg straight up. So you've got a shared teammate there where one, one, one didn't.

And then, I mean, we bring this up regularly, but Ricardo managed to beat Sebastian Vettel after Sebastian Vettel won four straight championships. That's ridiculously impressive. And Carlos Sines has never done anything anywhere near that caliber. And again, that's not meant as an insult. That's meant as a compliment to say how amazing of an achievement that was for Daniel Ricardo in 2014. So he has got a few years on Ricardo.

and that's definitely something to play here. But science is great, but Ricardo's elite. All right. Main event time. I know you've been absolutely desperate to get to this point, which is F1 on the clock. It's F1 on the clock. So we've decided to bring another game into the mix,

F1 on the clock. So here is the concept. It is, as always, Sam versus Harry. You will get one minute. to answer as many questions as you can correctly about Formula One. Covers absolutely anything and everything. There are 15 questions you've got each. So if you do get through them all, that that's the max amount you can have.

But that would be pretty impressive to get through them all. How do you expect us to get 15 in a minute? Well, I don't. But I had to just in case you actually do get them that I won't ask anymore. surprisingly. So yeah, you can pass at any time. So if you don't like the question, just pass.

And we'll move on to the next one. Set A or set B, Harry, do you want to go first? Set B. Oh, he's gone for set B. A maximum of 15 questions for you, Harry. You'll have one minute to answer as many correctly as you can. I'm just going to get the old clock up. don't say that incorrectly.

Yeah, thank God you said that right. I was very, I was very, very careful about that and the good thing too. He's just pulling up the old Big Bang. Very good. So, Harry, one minute on the clock, your time starts. Now, who was the first British F1 champion? Oh my God.

The pressure, who's the first British... My... No, oh God, Mike Hawth one? Correct. Who won the last Australian Grand Prix? What, 2019? The last one? Porridge Man, Bottas. Yes. In what year did John Lazy win his one and only Grand Prix?

1995. Correct. For which team did Jackie Stewart win his third world title? Tyrol. Correct. Who partnered Marcus Erickson at Salber in 2016? Felipe Naza. Correct. Who finished third in the 2004 F1 championship

behind Schumacher and Barrichello? Button? Correct. In what year did Martin Brundall first commentate on an F1 race for ITV? 1997. Correct. Which team did Felipe Massa? So this would be your last question.

Which team did Felipe Massa first race for in 2012? Salba. Salba is correct. So you were able to answer every single question you've got to correctly. So eight out of eight. I'm going to make an absolute fall of. Thanks. Thanks, John Humphreys. How did you get 1997? That was impressive. Yeah. I've got about three of them, right? That's what? Maybe your tactic here is to get through them quicker. Maybe if you, you know. Maybe my tactic is to be given the child's version of this list. Which driver that rhymes with Wichael Gru-Graker won the championship?

Fangio! No, it was actually Wolfgang Von Trips. No, no one. All right, so same thing. You've got a target of eight, Sam. One minute on the clock. Your time. Just for starters, I'd be happy to get one.

If you get one, we'll be celebrating. Come on, man. Your time starts now. Where did Daniel Ricardo start his F1 career? HATR.C. Correct. Fernando Alonzo beat who, 18, nil and qualifying in 2008? Stoffel Van Dorn. No, too late. I'm risk for the question. It was Nelson P.K. Jr. Who won the 1984 F1 championship?

Oh, um, Prost. No, it wasn't Prost. Nikki Louder. I was just so louder as well. I'm just so much. Who is number 16 on the F1 grid? Oh God. Christ. Why am I trying to run it through in my mind? You can pass it if you want.

I don't want to pass it! I'll just get it wrong anyway. God, I don't know! You're wasting so much time. The T-feet. It's Shaola Glear, who finished third behind Michael Schumacher and Kimi Reichen in the 2003 F-1 Championship. Mr Chunky.

It is Mr Chunky one Fablo Montoya. And the last question, at which track did Lewis Hamilton take his first F1 victory? Oh, I know this as well. God damn it! I guess Silverstone. It was Canada,

circuit shield bill. No, I knew that as well. What embarrassment. I hate myself. I quit like making. I mean, you shouldn't have a minute on the which car has on a season.

Yeah, I feel like that was your major undoing there, Sam, was probably spending a bit too much time on that question. You got two right. So it means that Harry, you've won this one wild answer. Thanks. Two was,

now double what I wanted, so. And, hey, I mean, the good news is you two were so slower answering them. I've basically got my questions for the next time we do this. You know what? I can't, I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm trying to bring other things to this podcast. You bring a lot, Sam.

A fainting Americans. Exactly. I can't do that anywhere near as well as you can. All right, that's it for F1 on the clock. If you wouldn't mind playing the jingle. It's F1 on the clock. That's going to do it for this episode. As we referenced earlier, next week is teammate wars.

So get ready for that one. Until then, Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here. Folks, it's been a bit hectic. We've had some good chat. know what you think over on Twitter or jump over to YouTube of course, new video is coming out all the time because talk to us about

Formula One and racing and all things in cars. We always love to hear your thoughts and feelings about these things. In the meantime, go check out Man Escape to use our code late 20 and I'll be exactly the same. I've been Ben Hocking.

I've been doors to the wall. I remember. Keep breaking late. The cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.