The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Schumacher vs Hamilton: The greatest of all time is....

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Who is the greatest driver of all-time? It's an age-old debate so the guys give their thoughts on the matter. Plus, Ben puts Harry and Sam through their paces with a game of F1: Back and Forth! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late-breaking Formula One podcast. My name is Ben Hocking, alongside Samuel Sage and Harry Ead. Tonight we're going to be looking through some miscellaneous topics, I think, is the best way to describe it with no Formula One action still. We are waiting. We are still alive just about. But please, everyone, please come back soon.

Harry, Sam, how are you faring without Formula One? I just don't know what to do with myself. Today, whilst in Morrison's, I, um, deciding to go around the outside of an elderly couple, but I squeezed them into the chocolate aisle. Um, there was a skewers review, and I always find 112. Wow. You'll find what?

One 12. 112. I thought he said 112 as in like 112 pounds. No, no, no, no, just a chocolate bar. only one twirl so like one stick of a twirl or one whole chocolate bar worse of the 12 yeah yeah one full chocolate bar but the double whammy bloody hell that's a harsh penalty from from the stewards there morrison's is a tough track it is a tough track it's it's no asda that's for sure um i have to say though going around the outside of an elderly couple with a shopping trolley and morrison's is something i would do even if formula one was on every fortnight so um perhaps that's not deviating too much from the norm. But you can see we are in somewhat desperate times right now. We're going to be today talking about who we think is the most overrated and underrated driver of the 2010s. But first of all, we're going to be looking at who is the best driver of all time.

And apart from it being Lance Stroll, we are actually going to explore why it's Lance Stroll. And if anyone has a different answer, which I'm sure they're not going to, I guess they might advocate that as well. kick us off on this one. The greatest driver of all time. Who are you taking? Obviously, I'm taking Lewis Hamilton. That's not obvious. How is that?

Fine. Obvious would be Lance Stroll. Yeah, but that's that's evens, isn't it? I mean, you're a fool if you pick that answer, because everyone knows you go for it. There's no surprise. There's no shock factor. Oh, it's just Lansstroll again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all know it's Lantz Stroll. Alternative answers include Lewis Hamilton. and I'm going to just lay out some argumentative points as to why. Now, you're all arguing initially that Lewis Hamilton has not won the most world titles across Formula One history. Lank scroll, of course, has 23, and then behind that, Michael Schumacher has seven, and then of course Hamilton has the big six. Ironic that his arched nemesis, Nico Rosberg, is number six?

Is it ironic? Probably not. So, why is Lewis Hamilton the greatest driver of all time? Many reasons. He came into the sport with an absolute bang. I mean, I think he finished in second place in his debut season in that McLaren. It was a phenomenal start to his career. He really blew up on the scene, not literally blew up, but he had a fantastic time. Then 2008 comes around, a little bit of a whistle-stop tour,

and he goes off against recent two-time world champion. some say he is still the best driver of all time as well, some big fan boys, Fernando Alonkso, and beats him and takes his first title at just 23 years old. And Ben, I'm sure you'll correct me. I think at the time he was the youngest world champion ever? Was he younger than Alonzo?

No. There you go, thanks. This is why I'm not the stat man. Anyway, regardless, within his second season of Formula One, he is a world champ. Then he goes for a real. really difficult period. I've got to do many cars because we actually get some of the best seasons

Formula Lung singing a long time, right? Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, all fighting so close together. A few other cars chopped in between as well, getting some wings, the likes of Lotus as well. And he did brilliantly well. I think he was only beaten by Butting across one season. The other two seasons he won. So that's really strong. He beats another champion there.

And then we move on to the most recent era, of course, where Mercedes is pure domination. The combination of Hamilton and Mercedes is a dream come true. beaten once by Rosberg in the final race of the season. We could go into the band like or good luck cause. I'm not going to do it because I'll just get sides from the audience. But there were definitely some reliability problems across that season that dropped

more points for one side of the garage than the other. Of course, we've got other than just six world titles. That is the fact that he's got, I think, a 34 or 35% wing ratio. I think it's 83 wings from 248 races, which is just an incredible amount. He is now only a few short. I think it's 8,

or seven short of Schumacher, which again, yes, more numbers, but I mean, I think the time that he's done it, the percentage of it he's done it in, is just phenomenal. And then we move on to what is key in Formula One. It's not just your Sunday performances. It's just Saturday performances.

And he is, by far, by long and far, no argument against it. The best man on a Saturday, Formula One, has ever seen. More polls than lost by absolute mile. 87 pole positions for Lewis. I don't know if it'll ever be beat unless Max Verstappen or Charlotte-Cleur get a truly dominant now and he's still dominant when they retire. I don't know if that will ever be beaten.

But then again, I'm sure we said that about Schumacher and Hamilton's going to wipe all those records off, of course, this season. Many other facts and figures. He's got the most race wings in one season without starting on pole position. So if he isn't the top man on a Saturday, he's still the top man come Sunday. Pretty impressive. But the one thing that I think separates him from the rest. of drivers across Formula One history.

Not just against the other top guys, you know, your shoemakers, your pros, your singers, is the general global impacts that he has had for the sport in Formula One, right? He is taking his career in a media-fueled age and turned it into something truly brilliant. He has put Formula One on such a pedestal across the globe. People who have never been involved in Formula One

and I'm fully aware of it. We've got stars turning up just to see Lewis Hamilton. Will Smith, as much as that was, awkward, turns off and films half of the bloody Gromprin, does a better job than the current director that we've got. So, maybe getting back. We've got people left, right and centre coming in. He's got his own clothing line. He's now,

you know, an advocate for many, many charities. I generally think that you can't just be a good racer to be the best of all time. You have to be a great strategist, which he's doing a good job of. You have to have to plan team moves, which he did brilliantly moving from McLaren to Mercedes. He timed that fantastically well. You need to be great off the track. He needs to be an advocate of the sport.

You need to know what you're doing, how to drive the sport forward. And he does it all, folks. He does it all. Also, it's not a dirty sheet by Michael Schumacher. So that's why. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Well, I'm going to presume, Harry, you're rebuttal. I was going to presume that you're rebukkah. I was going to presume that on those lines. I'm just going to let you. I'm going to let you go now, Harry. Go for it. This might be 25 minutes, by the way. I wish I had a bigger boo hiss button, but I don't. So you'll just get a...

Wow. Instead. Look, I don't care what Sam says. He's talked a lot about numbers. So I'm going to talk about numbers as well. Wins, 91. Podiums, 155. Career points over 1,500.

Poposition in 68. Yes, fine. It's not as good as Hamilton. but so what? Batters Laps 77 and seven championships that's still better than Hamilton. So your talk numbers, it's irrelevant because the numbers speak for themselves.

Apart from all the ones that I missed out because I got bored of talking. Sam, you never get bored of talking. Race is led, laps led. You know, there's many things coming your way, son. And they're all going to be taken down this year. You know, even if you want to talk numbers now in 12 months' time,

the numbers will be nothing to you. Oh, so did he Schumacher. Well, anyway, look, I've spat some numbers in your face. That's taking you down a peg or two. Look, Hamilton didn't leave a world championship winning team or the team that won the World Championship to go to a team that hadn't won a World Championship for almost 20 years. He went to Mercedes on the cusp of them winning lots of our championships,

and he didn't have to build them up. He joined in 2013. the new hybrid era engines were already coming. Again, a lot of the work in Mercedes dominance was done by Schumacher, just going to put that one out there. Schumacher left Benetton. He went to Ferrari in 96. He spent four years building him up.

He broke his leg in the process. That's how hard he worked. God damn it. And then he took them on to six successive world championships in a row. How can you argue? Look, I know Hamilton is, he is up there. he's up there in the top three but Shemak is still the best

I mean if you were talking numbers Harry which is fair right how many drivers has Hamilton had to drive into to try and win a championship none but he's not ruthless enough that's that's his problem

I think the difference is being ruthless enough without having to literally break the rules of the sport to try and get your own way Hamilton's broken the rules on many occasions I remember boundaries Remember SpyGate and Liegate? Exactly. A lot of these driven by the team, not by the driver.

I just simply remember watching, I mean, to fair, props Kishimi for this, watching him stormed down the pit lane to batter Kaltar. Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. It was great entertainment. But it just doesn't happen these days because they settle things on the track and the best man wings. And we can both agree, regardless of who we're arguing for,

that the best drivers rise to have the best cars. Not true. Alonza hasn't had the best car because he's not the best yeah but he's one of the best and he still hasn't had the best car he had the best car when he won his two titles he had the best car when he was at McLaren

he didn't win when he was at McLaren yes because Ron Dennis he was just favouring Hamilton the whole time oh here we go oh god yeah we keep going forever like this look

you speak You spoke about Hamilton being an ambassador for the sport, and I agree. He's played a huge role in bringing Formula One to the global circus. But so did Schumacher. He was, you know, especially if you look at where Formula One was when he started, he was part of that building up of F1 into a massive global sport. And, you know, everyone knows or knew who he was. was and knows who he is now, even now.

So, yeah, he's, he's, he's done as much work for Formula One as Hamilton did. And I don't care, Sam. Don't care. Great point, great point. I mean, to give Shumee's credit, it's not like I'm not a fan of Schumacher. I absolutely love the pants of Michael Schumacher. He's a fantastic bloke. And I'm sure the Shemacher true fan boys, Harry, your Legion of Fans will appear in the comments.

and shoo me away swiftly. See what I did there? Hang on, hang on. There you go. Ha ha! That was good. Anyway, I'm sure that everyone will argue against me, but we've got a third individual

who hasn't said much in this argument. No, I found it quite entertaining to just let you two battle away. It's been great the jab's just coming from both of you. I have always said, and I've kind of made this point various times, so please do tell me off for those who have heard this before. I believe there are six.

Formula One drivers and you can put them in any order you like in terms of who's first, second, third, and I will not say you're an idiot, pretty much. For me, it's Clark, Fangio, Prost, Sena, Hamilton and Schumacher. You can put those six in any order you like, and I will respect that. However, I do agree with Harry on this, and I do believe that Schumacher is the greatest Formula One driver of all time. I think to give Lewis Hamilton his credit, I would definitely put him up there. I think Hamilton had, and you alluded to this, Sam, the explosive start that he had to his career. I think Hamilton did have the best start to a career we've ever seen in Formula One. You know, 2007, he came in as a rookie completely, I mean, he wasn't expected to fail, but he wasn't

expected to be there with Lonzo in his first year. He was. That's one of the most impressive rookie seasons of all time, if not the most impressive. 2008, very well done on winning the championship in that year. However, I think Schumacher's years prior to him winning the championships at Ferrari were more impressive than Hamilton's middle years he had at McLaren. You're right in saying that Jensen Button beat him in one of the three seasons in terms of overall points. Button does claim the advantage over Hamilton. So I think Schumacher's years just before, because a lot of Schumacher's best performances came before Ferrari winning championships. You think Spain, if you think Belgium, you had about five brilliant performances at Belgium.

You know, Schumacher delivered excellent performances. It's not to say that Hamilton didn't, but then you compare them when they were at their most dominant Hamilton. That is now Schumacher 2004. And this is probably the one thing that goes against Hamilton for me more than anything else, is that I don't think there is any chance in hell Schumacher allows a teammate to win a championship. I don't see it happening under any circumstances. Hamilton, reliability or not, he let Rosberg in with a chance and Rosberg took it. So I think that's why I've got a Schumacher just over Hamilton, but fully respect having

Hamilton first. I've got no problems with that whatsoever. I'm going to introduce someone else into the fold, who I've already mentioned, Alan Prost, because I feel as if this is a guy that is never really mentioned when it comes to one of the greatest of all time. And I think he absolutely deserves a place in that. I think Alan Prost is the most consistent competitive driver in Formula One history, and that includes Schumacher and Hamilton. After he achieved just five points in his first season, a terrible McLaren that he was in, he was never outside of the top five in any other season that he competed in for the rest of his career. And he was, it looked like he was going to be a nearly man for the first half of his career

because he couldn't get a victory, sorry, he couldn't get a world championship win, no matter how hard he tried. In 1981, he was seven points off. the title and he only finished six of the 15 races that year. Those early Renault that he were driving was so unreliable. And if he had just had a bit more reliability, he might well have won a few championships before the McLaren years with him and Senna. In 1982, same story, 10 points off the championship win. He only finished half the races.

And then he loses the 1984 season by the slenderest margins, 0.5 points. But if you look at Prost and you look at the teammates that he, had obviously a four-time world champion. If he just claimed a few more points in his career, he'd have won seven. He could have had less than three race wins more in his career and won 10 championships. That sounds ridiculous. It's true. You look at Pross teammate, though. He had 10 teammates in his career, Alan Prost. All of them finished on the podium at least once. Eight of them won races and half of them won a world championship. Yet he beat every single one of them, The exception being 1984, Nikki Lauder, that he lost by half a point.

He beat Senna in 88, even though Senna won the championship. He then beat Senna again in 89. Alan Prost definitely deserves to be up there in the debate as the best of all time. And I don't believe he is there enough. So I'm going to throw that into the fray. But to go back to the original point, I do believe it is Schumacher is the greatest. There you go. I think that's a pretty fair, polite, nice argument.

We've actually managed to keep that completely civil, I think. yeah we deserve that we deserve that we do well pat on the back for us sorry for ralph wiggum and samuel samuel samuel sorry people aren't going to get that we harry's breaking um but the other me and sam have to log in as a different name so we get to choose the name each week i'm samuel peeps and Sam is Ralph Wiggum. I'll post it on our Twitter for everyone at Lbreaking. Yeah, go and have a look at what we have to deal with. That was a beautiful plug.

Well done. All right. Well, we've had enough controversial debate. Oh, wait, no, we haven't. We're now going to be discussing the most overrated and underrated drivers of the 2010s. So 2010-Bridge 2019. team. We had a discussion a little while back about who we thought were the top 10 drivers of the decade. So we thought we'd take that a little bit step further. Overrated, underrated. Sam,

I'll start with you. Who do you think is the most overrated driver of that era? This is a really, really difficult question to be asked, right? Because there's a lot of great drivers in Formula One, obviously, most people define it as the pinnacle of motorsport. And we have a very quick discussion before coming on air about who's kind of chosen who. And I didn't have a name. And I'm not going to go and skilling in the games that you guys brought up because I'm sure you've got very valid points. And I agree with the names that I've seen. So I'm going to dig a little deeper. I'm going to search the back of my rather dim and small mind. And pull out Mark Weber's name as the most overrated driver to have graced the Formula One

field since 2010 began. That man had a possible championship winning car for four continuous years. He is not world champion material. He should not have been in that car as a number two driver. He barely did enough for the four years. If Sebastian Vettel, who was almost a rookie at that point, can prevail through such difficult circumstances for at least two of those years, and then wipe the floor with Mark Weber

for the other two years, surely Weber, who is, you think a driving. Le Monde winner, am I wrong? Is he a Le Mung winner? He isn't he? Yeah? Okay. No one's telling me I'm wrong. So I'm assuming I'm right. He's a Weck World Champion. There you go. Weck world champion. Not a Lamont

winner, but a Weck world champion. It's essentially the same thing. He just didn't wing that track. Bloody, do you want the entire sports car fan base after us? You can't say things like that. Sorry, I'm wrong. It's fan base, you are correct. It's different. And they're important. Anyway, he was rubbish.

He didn't do enough. It was like Rumors Barakello against Michael Schumacher. He was a total pushover. And I love Rubberus Barakello. I love him. What a gentle, gentle man that is fall gracefully upon his face

every single time we see him. But, Mark Wever not good enough. Should not be in a car that was a championship winning car. Someone else should have had the chance at that point. He didn't prove himself to be worthy. He barely won more than what, 11 races, 12 races. I think his entire career. It's just not enough.

It's not enough. Mark Weber, lovable bloke, incredibly overrated driver. Wow. I think perhaps the most damning thing against Mark Weber. I mean, you could argue his mind was maybe gone by this point and his love for Formula One had perhaps passed and he was on his way out. But 2013, he lost to battle his teammate by 198 points.

I mean, that's in defense. Has there ever been a bigger gap between two teammates? Well, I was just wondering this. I can't think of someone. Because that is almost disgustingly bad. I'm sorry. If I met Mark Weber, I'll be his best mate. It seems like a lovely bloke.

But that is embarrassing for any sportsperson. That is awful. That's eight race wins behind. Eight. So, yeah, significant margin. Anyway, Harry, who do you have for this one? Most overrated? I have gone for a driver that he showed so much promise and then he didn't.

Pascal Verlaine. Oh. He, I know he's still going and fullerie and doing all right, but he was, you know, we were at a point where we were tipping him for, or, well, people, I don't say we. I can't remember if I did or not. but people were tipping him to be the next, the next driver in the Mercedes.

And then he, you know, he, he didn't perform hugely against Rio Harrianto. Let's not forget that driver. He didn't perform particularly well against him. Then Ochan came in and O'Hon was better. And then he was in the Salba in 2017, having not actually got the Mercedes seat. And he didn't perform too well than either.

So, and I've always thought he's had a, bit of an attitude problem. He just doesn't seem to, that year in the Salba, he didn't seem to want to be there. I think he missed the first few races. Yes, because I think he had a neck injury. But again, I still don't think that was the real reason. I just don't think he wanted to be there.

Yeah, so I'm calling it most overrated at 2010s because of the promise he was, not he showed, or the promise people expected of him, the expectations people had, was too much. I don't think he was actually ever going to be that good. I can't disagree with you there, Harry. That is an unexpected name out of the hat, but now you've said it, I think it's a fair shout. If you think there was a time before. Yeah, unbelievable agreement here. If you think when Bottas got the seat at Mercedes, just about a month before

he got that seat, Verline was the favourite to get it. Verline was the bookie's favourite. A bit of hypothetical here, Harry, but if Verlain gets that seat rather than Bottas, how do you think his career plays out? I don't think he would have, that's tricky. I don't think he would have lasted as long as Bottas has in that seat. I think Hamilton would have, you know, we know Bottas has had his difficulties, but he still had performances that have been good and sometimes very good. Bless you over that last. But I think, yeah, Verline doesn't last. to 2020 in that Mercedes seat. No chance.

Parmy thinks Verline was a tad unlucky not to have a better car than what he did. Obviously he was in the manner and then the Salman, neither of which were very competitive at all. But again, I can't disagree with you in that he could have done more to secure a better seat, if not the Mercedes, at least a midfield runner, because the second Ocon walked into that manor seat alongside him.

He was right on the pace straight away. What Veiline needed to do was to, you know, really show himself. Ockon comes in. He's the, you know, the next star after Verline and really just show who's the boss. And he didn't do that. So I find it hard to disagree with you there, Harry. Wow. Thanks again.

This is incredible stuff. Having said that, I have got my own. Go on then. Hold on. Sorry, hold on. I need my life jacket and I need a seatbelt. Just strap myself in. Let me just put some dramatic piano on.

If you are based in Helsinki or indeed anywhere in Finland, now is the time to turn off the podcast. Oh my God. The next few minutes. And the fact of the matter is, I didn't even really need to think about this one. This one was almost immediate. I knew who I was going to pick straight away.

It's Kimmy Reikinen. Kimmy Reikinen is the most overrated driver of the 2010s. Now, great sound like, thank you. Kimi Reichen and in the 2000s was an excellent driver, and I would probably put him in the top three or four drivers of the 2000s alongside Alonzo, Schumacher, maybe Jensen Button in there as well. 2003, 2005, the year he won the championship 07, all three of them were incredible years for him.

However, those who think he was on the same level in the 2010s, as he was in the 2000s. Stop lying to yourself. You're kidding yourself. It's not been that way at all. Reichenen's highlights from the 2010s. He's picked up a grand token of three wins. Three wins in, okay, not quite 10 years because he wasn't there for 2010 and 11,

but, you know, three wins in all that time. He was in a car that was potentially winning races. Another highlight, he didn't out-qualify Romang Grosion in two years. If you add up all of the qualifying performances they had, they were dead level against Roman Grosjean. Okay. He was, I'm going to use the word spanked here, because I can't think of a more appropriate word to use.

He was spanked by Alonzo. It wasn't close. 161 to 55 in their one and only season at Ferrari. Vettel joins him, same story really. Four years on the trot. Vettel proves himself to be dominant. He had one win at Ferrari in all that time. In that same period of time, Vettel had 13.

He had two pole positions in his time at Ferrari. In that same time period, Vettel had 10. It's not even close. Reichenen was not worthy of that Ferrari seat, and I think he got very lucky that no one was in a position to replace him. I've got him as the most overrated driver of the 2010s. 2000s, great driver, but he went off the boil after his World Championship win, and I don't think he's ever recovered.

Blimey. I just... Sorry, Finland. Harry, can you put the traumatic piano music back on again for a minute? Yep. Have you seen an elderly Finlandish man in a racetrack near you? Have you seen him eating an ice cream

that maybe he just doesn't deserve? If so, text Bois now to I'm Kimmy Reichen, 0800-O, to support £2 pounds a month in getting his career back on track. Kimmy Riking, he needs you. I've got nothing. I have got nothing for that. Sam, that was very good picking that music. That's perfect. I didn't even think of that. It's exactly like one of those adverts. It is, isn't it? It's like those horrible dog or child abuse adverts.

Yeah. The one from the donkey, the donkey sanctuary on. Oh, it hurts my heart. So the idea of Kimi Rikings stood next to this donkey in a sanctuary. Makes me a little happier. Yeah, so if you could donate two bank a month to him, that might help. Can I clarify the phone number that people need to get a hold of in order to do this? It's Kimmy Reichenen. 0800. I like to say this was a legitimate company, Ben.

Wow. We're going to be taken up there for, you know, doing this scheme to get money. You've got a text Bois, not Wow, by the way. Yeah, Bois. Spell, B-W-O-A-H. There you go, folks. Should we move on? Actually, I'm not asking the question.

We're moving on. Most underrated driver. Underrated driver. Sam, who've you got for this one? Now, I've had to go outside the box again for this, because once again, the other two, morons, have decided to pick the two people I probably actually know one of them definitely

the other one I would begrudgingly choose so you can work that out later on I'm going to go outside the box very far outside of the box and I'm going to take us all the way to the land of the rising sun Kamui Kobayashi is by far one of the most underrated drivers

across his whole career someone's got a text, got a text across his whole career but at the same time in those I think he was in the in the Tengs for maybe four or five years. That man had really true great pace. He was really strong a number of times.

He had a few pogging finishes. He was kind of dealt a bad hand when it came to his final car. I think he was in the catererum and it was not good. So he struggled a little bit there. But I think his raw pace, his raw ability, his racecraft,

especially when he was in that, I think it was the Salbury was in. It was bloody fantastic. He always lit up the track. He did a fantastic job. There was one really, infamous race where he held off someone in Japan. Was it Jensen Bussing?

I think it was Jensen Busting in Japan. He held him off for a podium. He had the ability. I think if you stuck him in a top three or four team, he really can have to make a really good backup driver, which is what you need. He doesn't always have to be the best driver in the world to be underrated. I think he could be a brilliant team player, a brilliant number two driver. He was never really given that full on proper chance. So, yeah, I think outside choice, definitely got my main pick because the other two guys have done a great job choosing games there.

but I think Kobe Ashley is up there. Sam, I just looked it up. It was Jensen Button. Well, good knowledge. That might be the first thing I've ever got right through actual memory. I'm congrats. Yeah, congrats. Thank you.

That's a big moment for me. Big time player. All right. Harry, who have you got the, well, Sam might have begrudgingly picked? Well, we actually, spoke about this as a three before we did recording. Like we almost did some planning, which is unbelievable for all three of us to do planning.

Ben always plans. Me and Sam basically. So Sam has obviously already seen this, but I'm going for Nico Rosberg. And I think he's probably on all three of our lists. I know he's are definitely on Ben's. He is on mine. Even though Sam hates him, he stood on Sam's. I don't hate him. I guess he's ass.

I are sorry, two very different things. I think you're a house. Oh, yeah, true. Nika Rosberg, look, he's a world champion. And he's a world champion against Lewis Hamilton. And no matter what you say about Hamilton's bad luck that he had in 2016, Rosberg still beat him. And there are occasions where Rosberg beat him fair and square that year as well.

but if we look at Botas, how Bottas has performed against Hamilton in the past four years, it highlights what a good job Rosberg was doing to be, he was in the title fight in 14, he was in it for most of 15. He obviously won it in 16. I don't know, it took it out of him, but he sustained a title challenge for way longer than Bottas ever has. and then also look at his record against Schumacher, and yes, I know Schumacher was not a top, top form in his Mercedes comeback.

But, you know, we were still a pretty quick driver. And, yeah, Rosberg beat him as well. So, yeah, I think people, I don't know, people are just overlooking. Maybe Luka Rosberg is the best driver of all time. Yeah, we've got this all wrong because he's beating Hamilton and Schumacher. Put him against Sena, put him against Prost. I reckon Rosberg will love him if you give him a few seasons. Yeah, maybe, maybe that's true.

Yeah, look, look, Rosberg, potentially he even deserved slightly more than he got. I think, you know, maybe he went to, he was at Williams as Williams were hitting their decline in the mid-naughties. And then he goes to Mercedes and he finds himself against Schumacher. he beat Shimaka but the car isn't up to scratch then the car is finally up to scratch and then he's got to deal with Mr Hamilton next to him so maybe in a parallel world he perhaps deserve more wins maybe even another championship but who knows I'm just going to throw it in here because in a parallel world he only won the championship by five points so you know it wasn't wasn't a demolishing no no I'm not I'm not saying I'm just saying if it was if circumstances i.e. he didn't end up teammate to Hamilton or he didn't end up teammates to Schumacher or he was in a faster car from an earlier age because Rosberg you know he was he was he was a flavor of the of the month when he entered F1 in 2006 he was a very promising talent and then this geyser called Lewis Hamilton rocked up and kind of sold the show he had the best hair oh yeah very sure

some really strong locks on him underrated hair cap Definitely go to Sika Rosberg. Can we do a separate podcast on underrated F1 haircuts? Because I've got some Yarno Trullies in there that have got to go in. I actually did an article, folks, if you're going to go and pick it up of best haircuts in Formula One. Yarno Trilly was the victor. I might have to put that on Twitter as well. I might have to go find that.

Very good. Harry, you did say that Niko Rosberg might be on my list. and you're absolutely right he was on my list however i've got someone else who i think is equally deserving of the most underrated driver of the decade is someone who i advocate the case for so many times and i'm going to keep doing it until people get the message sergio peres is the most underrated driver of 2010s um his his entrance into formula one wasn't brilliant you know he went up against kamu kowayashi who's obviously already been a been a person selected for this topic uh he did all right. I think he did reasonably well against Kamu Kowayashi. I think perhaps he did a little bit

too good for his own good because that got him an early promotion to McLaren. It wasn't the best time for him to go. If he goes a couple years later, I think it works out much better for him. For whatever reason, I don't think he gets the, he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. I think it's a mixture of he's not brilliantly loved by the fans. He sort of struggles to make a connection with the fans in a lot of the ways that the likes of Orlando Norris can. He's not quite as relatable as some of the others. He was always seen as a pay driver when he came in,

which even though he's done everything he can to discount that reputation, it still kind of sticks to him. And if you think of how he was portrayed in the first season of Drive to Survive on Netflix, he wasn't displayed very well because Netflix played a very good guy, bad guy, Ocon Perez,

scenario, which wasn't really entirely accurate. But I think a mixture of all those might lead to why he's underrated. I did say McLaren, his McLaren season wasn't very good. It was too early for him. And I absolutely agree with what I said that. But it wasn't as bad as people remember. It really wasn't as bad. He lost 73-48 to Jensen Button.

Is that really that bad? Like, Jensen Button is a quality driver who beat us. Alonzo in his career, who beat Hamilton in his career, and in Perez's first season at McLaren, he beats him by 25 points. I don't think it's really that bad. It's not his best season, of course, but if you think he then goes on to Force India, he's given a second chance. He makes the most of it. 2014 against Nico Holkenberg. That was the last year that he was beaten by a teammate, which correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's the longest streak that is currently active on the Formula One grid in terms of not being beaten by a teammate.

Ever since then, he turned the title, Niko Holkenberg, picked up podiums where he couldn't. Eight career podiums from Perez when he has not really ever been in a car, which you would say, yes, that should get a podium or that should be with a chance

of a podium week in, week out. So I always think that's an incredibly impressive statistic. And he beat Ocon. Okay, it was close, but he did beat Ockon as well. I think Perez is very underrated. I still think he's got a lot to give the sport. I hope for his sake that Aston Martin gives him a car that is better than some of the midfield runners he's been driving over the last few years.

I think that would be great to see. And I think you would witness Perez properly getting stuck in, not necessarily in a title fight. I'm not sure it depends on how good the Aston Martin is, but definitely in contention for wins. Weirdest three drivers for McLaren ever, Checo Perez, Kevin Magnerson and Heikekova-Lyman. That was a weird time. All arguably went to McLaren and then their careers never, well, no, not not ruined, but their careers, they all got booted out effectively, didn't they? And they had to either salvage their career or in Hikey's case, he didn't, he didn't come back at all. Well, I know he did.

Yeah, but. Babyface struggled big time after that. But, yeah, I mean, Magnuson's doing a good job. And I think Ben's right. I think if no one picks him, I other picked Perez is probably the most under-rength. racing driver of the 2010s. Absolute talent. You're right. He's had some really bad press. But if you

like him, I'm not. You have to like his personality to know that he's a good race driver. And he's a bloody good race driver. He's got good racecraft. So he deserves to be on that list. I think he's on Harry's desk as well. Just on the point, just on the point of box office Magnison, by the way, you say about his career peaking too early. I mean,

it literally peaked after two hours. Or peaked after Australia. Yeah. That's true. Ben, a question for you. Yeah. Because Checo was a Ferrari junior driver

and for a while he was tipped as a person to replace Masa at Ferrari, but that didn't happen. Do you think without the move to McLaren, he would have ended up there? Yeah, I do. At late to date? Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah, I really do. I mean, I alluded to when I was speaking about Reikinen as the most overrated driver in the decade, that I don't think he was booted from that seat because no one was in the position where they could be confident that someone could take over.

I think if Perez doesn't go to McLaren that early in his career carries on for another couple of years, I think there's every chance Perez gets the nodded to the second driver there. Interesting. That would have been very interesting. All very interesting indeed.

Talking about interesting, we're going to bring back a game we haven't done in quite a while. We're going to play F1 back and forth. Oh, it's even got the chat. tune F1 back and forth. We're going back. We're going forth.

It's F1. Wow. Oh, wow. I thank you so much for that, Sam. I teed it up perfectly for you and you knocked it out of the path. Yeah, maybe you've like junior league softball. All right. So, this is how you play F1 back.

I've never been more obviously ignored in my entire life. I think we'll do it every week, Sam. All right, let's play the game. Yeah. F1 back and forth. It's a pretty simple game. So Harry versus Sam, they will go in order. They will go take turns to give an answer to a certain category. They will keep going until one of them can't think of an answer or gives a wrong answer.

If you say an answer that you have already said or your opponent has already said, I'll let you off once. And then the second time you do it, I'll tell you, nah, that's enough from you, sunshine. So, I should do it like that. What's going on? I mean, Harry Wings every time we play this, so I'm just preparing to lose. Sam, you can do it this time. I believe in you. I've remembered one thing through actual memory today. We can do it.

Well, exactly. Today's your day. You can't do it. All right. That's my national theme tune, though. But it genuinely would take us 42 minutes before. that got set. Yeah, I know. That's why I had to chuck it in

because I was like, blind me. It's not going to make it otherwise. All right. Here we go. The first topic is a pretty simple one. World Champions. Formula One, world champions. Who wants to go first?

Me. All right, Sam. You've got first of all? Michael Schumacher. No, Michael Schumacher is never a world champion. Damn it! Yeah, well done. Harry.

Louis Hamilton. Unsurprisingly, that's also correct. Sam. Fangio. Fangio was a world champion. Harry. Nico Rosberg. Yes. The most recent world champion. Well, most recent one time. You get me.

Sam. Great stuff. Sebastian Vettel. Sebastian Vettel is correct. Harry. Jensen Button. Yes. Sam. Fernando Alonso. Yes. Are you going to say my name?

Yes, I say his name. All right. Harry. Kimmy Reikeren. Yes. Sam. Mika Hakenan. Yeah. Harry. Why are you both shocks that I said that?

No, I'm just shocked that I've got... a list here and you've like monkey boy Sam has actually remembered a name that isn't the obvious for. I think it's because you went out of chronological orders we were doing so very nicely there. Sorry.

Okay. Undeserved champion Jack Vilnov. I knew there would be some sort of some sort of insult thrown in there. Yes, Jack Vilnav. Sam. Say it louder. For those in the back.

Nick Lauder is correct. Harry. Dill. What? Dill. Graham Hill is who he's saying. No, I said Dill, but Gil. All right, the other one.

Well, well done. Harry, you've got David Hill. Well, done, Sam. You've got Graham Hill. Now, it's back to you from Harry. Alan Prost. Correct. Sam?

Jack Brabham. Jack Brabham, is it? Correct. All right. Nigel Mansell. Good old Nig. You would say Nigel, you moustache-loving, weigo. I hope you're enjoying the Australian Grand Prix, Nigel.

Whoever's edited in this video, please find that and put it on the screen for everyone to see. Oh, gee. Jackie Stewart Yeah Three-time champ Harry Nelson PK Senior

Oh I mean I would have thought you were going to go for junior there So well done Well avoided Sam

My favourite corner In Formula 1 Alberto Ascari I mean Just to clarify The dead body of Alberto Ascari Christ! No one thought that.

Good. Harry. Keckay Rosberg. Yeah, both Rosbergs have gone, Sam. Jim Clark. Jim Clark is a good answer. Harry. Alan Jones. Alan Jones is good.

Sam. Oh, Phil Hill. The other hill. We've got the trio of hills. Harry, who have you got next? Mike Hawthorne. Mike Hawthorne is a good answer. I mean, I think we've got about nine left.

Oh, my Lord. Come on, Harry, we can get them all. Sam, who've you got now? The most dashing of world champions. and the one that likes to eat and drink the most is James Hunt. James Hunt is good. Harry?

Farina? Yeah. First ever world champion. Giuseppe Farina. I can say was his first name Giuseppe? Giuseppe. What a lad. I'm struggling now.

I've got a couple in mind yet Emerson Fittipaldi Fittipaldi is a good answer Harry I've got another one Come on I might win one Oh god I don't think I've got any left in my head

Got nothing left to give Got nothing left No I'm going to have to concede Harry's conceding Sam you win Oh my God It's a good day to be Sam What was your other one Sam

Can I try and yeah Can I try and get a couple more Yeah sure you've got another One two three four five six If you can think of any of those If we've already Adam Don't tell me I'm wrong Alright I guess it's a long list

Yeah yeah John 30s Yes Are we having? Yes Cool Andretti Andretti yeah

Oh, Jody Schechter Jody Schechter, yeah How many are you left? Three, I think Oh, poo bags Have we had Loudwood, Oswald, Yon Rin.

Yon Rin, yep That might, that might be all I have left. Give me a nation, I'll try and take a stab New Zealand. Oh, Alan Jones. No, Adam. Oh, poo!

Um, um... Oh, have you got it, Harry? I think I could, yeah, I could take a stab, but I think I'll get it wrong. Stab, Sam, stab. What's it? Hulm? Hull.

Yeah, Denny Hulm. There you go. I think that's all I've got, though. There's one more that I don't think you've got. Unless I completely forgot to cross it off. Who is it? Etton Senna? No, I think I thought I said him, but then I thought that it already been said.

That's hilarious if we missed Santa off the list. I mean, okay, just to clarify it, we all know he's a, we all know he's a champion. All right, congrats to us. Well done. The biggest winner is the Formula One community. No, yeah, the biggest winner is entertainment, I think you can find. There is a slightly shorter one I've got as well, Harry, for you to maybe get your own back here. All right.

So I've got one more category. Can you redeem yourself? This one is Silverstone Circuit Corner Names. Oh, my God. I should just stipulate on this one. This is on the Grand Prix circuit, so the one that's actually used for the British Grand Prix every year. As far as I'm aware, there's 15 names of corners. Are we discounting ones that are no longer there?

Yes, so bridge doesn't count. Damn it. Okay. All right. Harry, you're going to kick us off as well. Cops. Cops is correct. Maggots. Maggots is correct. Beckett.

We're not. see that coming. Beckett's is correct. We've just recorded the late breaking online racing league folks and it was held at Silverstone and I had to probably incorrectly many times shout a few corners.

Woodcott. Woodcott, that's correct. Stowe. Good old stow. What corner? Yes, that's correct. Club. Club, yep, that's right. Abbey. First corner on the revised circuit. Yep. Sam.

Oh, we've done, Magnus Beckett. It's got to do Chapel. Yep. Leading on to the hangar straight. Harry. Veil. Yeah. Sam. How many have we got left? Six, I think. Have we had village? We've not had village.

Harry. Brooklyn's. God damn it! I love Brooklyn. I think it's a great corner. It's bloody hard, though, isn't it? Oh, yeah. No doubt.

I drive it regularly. Literally every day. All right. Brooklyn is correct. Sam, who've you got? Have we had Luffield? We have not had Luffield, the corner straight, after Brooklyn.

So, I think we've still got three to go. Harry? Is there one called Farm? Yes, there is. Yeah. I hate you right now. Now, these last two, I mean, I don't think I would actually have got these two. So I'll be impressed.

Sam. There's one. And Harry, to be fair, feel free to jump in if you can help with this. I believe there's one between Maddoz and Beckett's. I thought that was Chapel. No, Chapel's the one afterwards. I'm someone that goes on to hangar. There'll be someone watching this or listening to this on the podcast who is so knowledgeable going,

oh, it's obviously this, it's obviously this. I'll intercept you that, Sam. So I think on the circuit there are 18 corners, but only 15, as far as I'm aware, only 15 have names. And of the three that don't have names, one of them is in between maggots and Beckett's. Okay, good. I got to worry about that. Beckett's and Chapel. So, yeah, that call of your thing, I don't think it has a name.

The only one I could think of then, and again, it might well that doesn't have a name, is the really stupid, annoying left-ander after Village, which I could have just heard be called, like, Loop or The Loop. It's not actually got, is that, is that right, is it? That's his name, yeah, The Loop. That's it. If Harry gets another one, I'm out. nothing. Well, I mean, there is only one more. So, it's actually the corner straight after the loop. I haven't got a clue. What that is? Any idea, Harry?

How many corners are there in that bit? Is Village the one? The right-hander, I think. And then there's, oh, is that the one we're missing? The left-hander. Yeah, the left-hander onto Wellington. Is that what we're talking about? I think that's the one. Pooh bags. It's not that. No, I need to add that to my shopping list.

Oh. Sam... No. I don't have a dog. Good. They're for me. Toilet roll is fast, I know. I don't know.

I don't know, Jeff. No, should I... Should I tell you? Put me out. Yeah. Yeah, it's called Aintree. Oh, that does ring bells, you know. But, I mean, collectively, 14 out of the 15 corners that have names at Silverstone, you've successfully identified.

So, well done. Thanks. When we did the recording, which no of you were here, because it hasn't worked, I just kept referring to that as the corner going on to the Wellington Strait. It hasn't got the same ring to it. Yeah, I never really heard of good entry. Neither have I. Not really. It's not much of a corner, is it?

It's a bit like the loop. To be honest, I would not have got that, Sam. So well done, but the... That's because I actually did a bit of research before we did the British Grand Prix. So it's just vaguely sitting in the back of my mind. Ah, right. That would make sense, yeah. But, Ben, again, top notch.

Good back and forth. Play the jingle, please, Harry. I am sorry. F-1. Back and forth, it's F-1. Going back and forth, we go backwards and then go forth, it's F1. Back and forth, yeah, F1.

Oh, no. Oh, that's incredible. That is actually incredible. It's also incredible that it was a different theme tune to the one we started. I forgot all the words to the first one. Well, no, you didn't. You just did it in a different order. I think I prefer the second one.

Well, hopefully we'll bring it back for a podcast in the next few weeks or so, and you can have another opportunity to sing along. I might make more jingles for random parts of our recordings anyway. We've got segments that need jingles, so go ahead. Harry, I need some more semi-jazzy music, please. Okay, I'm on it. Thank you. All right.

Well, whilst Harry goes away for a week and tries to find some jazz music, I think we should wrap it up for this. Sam, do you want to get us out of here? Folks, thank you so much for tuning. Once again, especially in this really difficult, confusing off-season. We hope and pray that racing will be back on our screen soon. If you haven't missed it, they do check out the late-breaking online racing league. It's back next week for round one of the Spring Championship.

If you've enjoyed our silly chip chat, enjoyed the quiz, let us know your answers. Get involved in the comments below. Do like, do subscribe. We'll see you the next time. But in the meantime, I've been Samuel Seig. I've been Ben Hawking. And I've been Bertrand Gashow. Very good.

Very good. Until next time, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.