The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Sebastian Vettel to retire at the end of 2022? | Episode 172

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

We're back for another week of F1-based antics! This week the boys discuss whether this will be Sebastian Vettel's last year in the sport, talk about Zak Brown's recent comments and play F1: Pump The Brakes...JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. And a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Yead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. Sam, you gave a bit of a teaser earlier on our Twitter, what you might have had to eat tonight. Everyone in the world is waiting in suspense. What did you have? Well, I think before I dive into the answer,

you two should give a guess. It's only fair for the fans. What do you think I had on Wednesday night? Well, I think it's pizza, because he always has a pizza on Wednesday night. Pizza Wednesday. Folks, it is a classic two-pound as to pizza. We're barbecue chicken and making.

It's got a stuffed cheese crust. Something's going to change. Those who said saucy cass, I love the choice, but not on a Wednesday night. It takes too long to make in between finishing actual work and doing the podcast. So it's a pizza night. It's what you get after nine years of friendship.

We know where you have a tea. Famously going as Pizza Wednesdays. I mean, Sam's food choices are perhaps more predictable than what's going to come out of his mouth next. So we've got that bit now down at least. What you come up with points in terms of our topics, that's still an unknown even after nine years. Let's hope the food is of what comes out next. Fingers crossed on that one. We've got too much to get through for that.

We're going to become president of the FIA collectively, at least in our thoughts, not in reality, I'm afraid. So we're going to propose some rule changes, and it's just going to go off into the ether and no one's going to listen to us, as per usual. Zach Brown has made some spicy comments, so we'll be responding to those. And Dave Benson Phillips gets his first outing of the year

because F1 pump the brakes is back and that will close the show a little bit later on. We're going to start with Sebastian Vessel. Now, it has become accustomed that before we've even started the 2022 season, we're already thinking about what the 2023 grid is going to look like. And there are a number of drivers that are out of contract, one of which being Sebastian Vettel.

It's his second year at Aston Martin coming up. and questions about whether this midfield life, depending on whether that continues or not, whether it's for him or not given his previous success. So Sam, start with you. 2022, will it be Sebastian Vettel's final year in Formula One? I think there's a strong chance it could be Sebastian Vettel's final year in Formula One.

I don't think it's set in stone. Vettel, you know, the last couple of years that he had in Ferrari weren't, they weren't great. As the phrase goes, not ideal. deal and let's face it, when he went to Askin Martin, the car didn't behave or perform as expected, and he wasn't exactly leaps and bounds ahead of Lance Stroll either. So it's been on the decline in terms of performances and standings and arguably reputation. Ben, famously last year, you declared that Sebastian Vetter was no longer in your top 10 greatest drivers of all time,

which is a pretty big statement to make. It's a four-time world champ, no dance for that yet. Please submit one if you have one. So will it be his last year? I think we will find out by the summer break this season. I think it relies on two things. One, are Aston Martin actually capacitive? Are they putting in a car's level of performance

that allows them to be either on the podium or fighting regularly for top end points, you know, fifth, sixth, every single race? Or are they going to be fighting that midfield again, scraping a 10th place, scraping a 9th place, more likely fighting for 13th, 14th place. Fessler doesn't want that. He wants to be winging.

And let's face it, some drivers are happy to just be in the car at the Penaicolor Motorsport, Sebastian Beto was a four-time world champion, has other ideas. I also, the other talking point to discuss is, does he enjoy this new phase of Formula One? Does he enjoy the new regulations, the dynamics, the way the cars run? We saw him dominate, of course, that four-year period. Two years where he was challenging where Alonkso and he won it, he did a great job, and he won it in two years where Mark Weathers took absolutely no chance whatsoever. It would go down as one of Australia's greatest moments or not.

so Sebastian Vessel could turn it around right Astor Martin that's a bit early in the day for Mark for Slander sorry Mark I mean the thing is if Aston Martin's time up with a car that is

let's say second or third best with a chance of some regular race race wings I think Sebi Vetter will do the same as Fernando alongside and grab every single chance by the scruff of its neck and drive that car the motivation the spark will come back

as we saw with Fernando the moment he had that moment in Qatar, right? He knew a poignant, a sniff of a podium was possible. And so Estabang Ocon decided that, you know, your time, sir, is to be a roadblock. And Alonso could get a podium. We all loved it.

Even when he was top of practice, remember a few years ago in Silverstone. We all absolutely love seeing that. Would I like to see Vetter and Alonso fighting up front for one more year? Yes, I would. So I think that would be a big outsider. If Vettel is able to be competitive,

enjoys the car and Asken Martin can support that growth. And I'm sure that's where Asken might want to be further towards the front. Then, no, I think you'll be in here for another year. If Asken Martin are fifth, sixth best team, seventh best team, Vettel can't pick up points on a regular basis, no chance at podiums. I feel like it is more likely than not that Vetter will bid the sport a farewell and will bow out gracefully at the end of this season. But we'll see Vettel get a little bit bored, a little bit tired.

I think it is more likely that Ashton Martin won't be able to produce a ultimate race-winning car racing race out and actually this can be in the end for Samasky and Vessel. Harry, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think this could be Sebastian Vettel's last year and what do you think of the factors that will determine it one way or the other?

Well, first of all, I think we need to make a disclaimer about all of this is, and I'm surprised Sam hasn't even mentioned this person yet, but whilst in between this podcast and last week's podcast, Aston Martin announced a new team principal. I tried so hard. Called Mike Crack.

I mean, come on everyone. Michael, you've got to go on Michael. Michael, no, Michael. No, Michael, no. Literally, Michael, no. So I'm just going to put it out of there now because it was bound to come up. We've had a laugh about Mike. We have a wig.

We'll be silly for me. Sorry, Mike. We'll all move on. Sorry, Mike. He's a well-known team principal at BNW motorsport, but still, you'd go with Michael. But anyway, back to the point in question. I totally agree with what Sam said there. I think it entirely depends on what car he has in his hands this year.

And I guess the other thing for him is how well he performs. I think last year was obviously a better year than 2020, but that was a low bar. He had some good races, but then there were some races that also were. were not great either. And I think he still wasn't happy with his overall performance over the season, even if the car wasn't there for him to deliver what he wanted. So, yeah, I think there's a couple of factors in it. I think if the car is not very good,

or if he doesn't feel like his performances are good enough, I think he may, you know, turn it in. Because, you know, we know he's got another life, a family life, a very private one at that. and what is the point in risking is risking is head every week for fighting for 15th or whatever it may be so yeah I think it's very dependent on how this year goes because yeah you're right I don't think Seb enjoys

fighting around in the midfield or even towards the back he wants to be back up up at the front so yeah but if it does go well this year then I can see him staying to 2022 too and again I agree with what Sam said about these new generation of cars I think it's you know not a secret that I don't think he's enjoyed the hybrid era of cars as much as he did the normally aspirated era of Formula One cars are just something about them I don't know has not suited his style than it did in the Red Bull Day so yeah it'd be interesting to see how he gets on with these cars so I think yeah there's a number of factors involved I think

if it's a good year he stays on. If it's not, then I think he retires. You make him sound like a bit of a superhero with that moment there. You said that, you know, Seb has another life behind closed doors. It's like he pulls the mask off and, you know, I'm home. Did you not know that he's actually Batman? Yeah.

I think he'd go by Recyclops, actually, if, you know. That's a niche reference. Actually, more for our American audience. Thank you, Dwight. niche American references is what we do here on the late break honestly you go to some Formula One

podcasts for breaking news but we don't we don't do news lightly here we bring you the most important things such as Sebastian Vettles alter ego and Mike crack and Mike crack

of course there's a real gap in the market oh come on Harry I'd expect it from Sam, I'd expect it from Sam, but from you, I have higher standards. Come on. Will 2021 be Vettles last year? He is on record saying that he is not in F1 to fight in the midfield. He is on record saying that. So it's not one that we have to insinuate. It's not one that we have to guess at. He's literally said it in black and white. So we don't need to,

we don't need to make any assumptions here. And for someone who doesn't like, being in the midfield. He's done a lot of being in the midfield over the last two years. 2020, he finished 13th. 2021, he finished 12th. 12th of 21 drivers. You can't get too much more midfield than that. So something has to change, right? You can get away with it in those two years because with Ferrari, he was on his way out. A new challenge was on the horizon. So, you know, you can excuse that being a midfield year. 2021, obviously again, another midfield year, but you can somewhat excuse that if you're Sebastian Metal

because it's the last year of a current set of regulations, going into a brand new set of regulations. Again, good times could be on the horizon. But 2022, you know, it's a different ballgame because if they're midfield this year, then suddenly you have to question, where does he go from there? because there isn't as much reason to believe that Aston Martin are going to turn it around next year if they're midfield this year.

You know, it will be the same regulations, 2022 to 23. So at that point, I think he does start to question his retirement a little bit more. I mean, it's not the first time he's questioned it either. He said openly in 2021 before making the decision to sign on for that extra year at Aston Martin. He did say that retirement crossed his mind before he made that decision. Now ultimately we have to assume that the only reason he's back is to defend his crypto.com overtake a ward, which I'm sure he'll do with Vigar, but he's back nonetheless. And maybe Aston Martin will give him a much better car. How he would respond to that remains to be seen. But yeah, I think he's at least going to give these new regulations a chance.

It's the same thing that we mentioned last week regarding Lewis Hamilton and whether he would actually come back for this. year or not. It's a case of you don't know what's going to happen for these regulations. Surely you want to try it because you could be the team that makes it work above all the others. Aston Martin might be in a similar position. They might be up towards the front. So, Sebastian Vessel, I'm sure he'll give this year a chance. You mentioned the summer break. Sam, yeah, he might well leave it sort of half a year, see the lay of the land. Have they, even if they're not there by midseason, have they made significant progress versus the first race of the season? That might be enough for

but I think he needs to, for his sake, just see where the team is, is the potential, if not there already, is the potential there for race wins, potentially championships. If the answer is no, then I think he does call it a day. I don't think he would continue. And ultimately, we have to remember, even though he is in a midfield team at the moment, or at least was last year, his motivation versus other drivers might not be the same because of what he's achieved previously. It's much more easy to keep yourself motivated

towards a goal that you've never achieved before versus Vettles, which is just getting back to what he once was. If you consider, say, George Russell, not saying he was delighted at being at Williams for three years, but why did he put up with it? Because he knew the potential of a Mercedes drive was a few years away, and ultimately, you know, championship, race wins can follow.

Sebastian Vessel hasn't got that first time dream ahead of him. He's just got to get back to it. And I think it's more difficult to keep yourself motivated when that's the case. You could say Alonzo's in the same boat, but he had time away from the sport, which Fetl hasn't had. So I think there is that factor too. Sam, you mentioned that there were two things that were going to determine it. You said, does he enjoy it? And also wearer Aston Martin comparatively to the rest of the field. One factor you didn't bring up, was potentially, if Aster Martin aren't there, are there other avenues at other teams?

Do you think that any other opportunities are closed off for Vettel? Let's talk about the obvious opportunity that could have. Lewis Hamilton, obviously not coming back to the sport in 2022. You know, he's obviously going to rule himself out. Mercedes, why would they not pick up Sebastian Vessel, sit at the front for a season or two

while George Russell gets himself sorted? And they find a replacement long term because there isn't an immediate option. On a silly, silly note, if Lewis Hamilton does what we're saying Bessel might do and goes, you know what, either one, I'm going to join this after what's happened. Cheers, I'll see you later.

Or get something this year and goes, you know what? The love of it is gone for me, and I don't want to do it anymore. And decides to leave, call it, you know, call it a day. And, you know, the most in-demand seat of all time becomes available. Then I'm actually everyone and their grandma will be applying for that seat.

Sebastian Vettel, including in that over 65 category, of course. He'll desperately be phoning up toto going, a year. Give me one year to prove myself in that. Does he need to prove himself? Listeners, does Sebastian Vetter need to prove himself in that sea? I'd argue, probably yes, he's been so far away from his best form, that maybe he would. So I actually think Mercedes is an outside, but possible option for Sebastian Vessel.

Are there other routes for him? There's been mentions, I believe, from press, that he should go back to Red Bull, that after Checo has his season here, that they should take him back on. I don't know why they would do that. From a Red Bull point of view, I don't know why that makes sense. Checo is doing a relatively good job.

We'll see how he performs this season. You might continue to do a very good job. If not, they have got a wealth of drivers coming through. Gassley, namely, he's very much ready to go ahead. Well, their album might be an absolute start. This coming season we don't know. Sengoda might go, you know what? I love this type of car, and I'm ready to go now.

and he might also create something brilliant. We don't know. So why Vessel turns up. Yeah, exactly. The only one of them as well. So why Vettel might turn up and get that seat over all of them, I'm not sure.

I feel like the bridge maybe is come and gone. It's been lifting up and the boat is sailing underneath it quite firmly now for Sebastian Vettel. So other options that might be interesting for him, fun, competitive. I don't think there's anything realistic. I don't think there's anything that, you know,

the drop of a hat is going to become available for him. and I feel like he'd only end up sitting in the same area, if not possibly going backwards, unless a new team were to come in, unless something like Audi or Porsche were deciding to make a move. Of course, that's a German link. He might like the idea of building a different legacy, but he's doing that already with Ashton Martin.

I'd argue that isn't working out as plans currently. So nothing immediate, I would say then. Nothing immediate. Harry, if Vettel still has that motivation, but Aston Martin aren't there in order for him to capitalize on it, do you think there are potential opportunities elsewhere for them? I don't think it's a huge amount, to be honest. It sounds ridiculous, isn't it?

Because who wouldn't want a four-time world champion, I should say? But you've got to say, are there any teams that would be above Aston Martin in terms of pace and money that are going to want to take Spastrian Betel or have the room or space for him. And I'd probably go with no. I think his other options are perhaps lower. I mean, we don't know. Well, this is basing it on 2021.

But I think the other options are currently lower than the option he has if he decided he didn't want to be there anymore. I don't see, as you say, you know, if a surprise seat emerged at a Red Bull or Mercedes, as successful as Sebastian Vettel has been based on the past couple of years of current form, I'm not sure not sure they would take him

and I think they would go for a younger driver because that's what they are always aiming to do really, isn't it, with their young driver programme? So, yeah, it's a difficult one. To be honest, I don't see him wanting to... He's a fairly loyal driver is Sebi Vett.

He obviously was loyal to Red Bull for many years and then left and then was loyal to Ferrari for quite a long time. He's not the sole driver that jumps teams very quickly looking at you, Danny Rick. It's not one of those drivers, I don't think. So I don't really see him wanting to go to another place to another team. I would see him just retiring, to be honest, if it didn't work out, obviously. Yeah, I don't think anything would happen for him outside of the Aston Martin program, to be honest. I know you mentioned the Mercedes option, you know,

if Hamilton wasn't for whatever reason going to come back. I have to be honest. With Vettel, despite his obviously brilliant achievements in F1, you do have to consider what his last few years have been. And his last few years have been 2019, you know, comfortably beaten by, or not comfortably, beaten by Charles Leclair in his first year at the team. 2020, soundly beaten by Charles Leclair, leaves the team, and then 2021, he narrowly beats out Lance

Strull. It's not a great three years in terms of a CV. And I think if Mercedes are looking at their options, I don't think Vettel is at the top of that list. You know, where else would he go outside of that, Ferrari? That's obviously not going to happen. Red Bull, I think, is probably the most likely. Bernie Ecclestone thinks it's a great idea. So it's a dead cert. there, isn't it? He likes Sprinkers on the track too. Exactly. And that was a great idea.

You know, whether he would go back to Red Bull if Perez doesn't work out. At least with Red Bull, Vettel has got that pedigree at that specific team. So maybe they would want to go for him. If they are convinced that Ghazli is not going to work and if they are convinced that Sonoda isn't going to work, then maybe they need someone as a stopgap for a year. just to see if Vettel's old fire is still there, maybe. I think that's probably the most likely of the three for me, but it's still very unlikely from my perspective.

We'll move on to us being the FIA president, because that would be fun. It's about time we've got to put it to power, really, isn't it? Yeah, definitely isn't. So we're each going to put forward two rule changes, new rules, possibly rule changes, that we would implement if we were president of the FIA. And this should prove this segment why we're not. Sam, first of all, I want to apologise, Sam,

for making you think before we have to do a podcast because, you know, it's notoriously something you hate. All he'd done is moan about thinking for the podcast, ladies and gents. And to honest, he was just saying what I was thinking as well. I have to be honest, folks, these two, they don't care about you at all. No. They don't care. There's a reason why Ben's here, folks.

It's not because he's entertaining, it's not because he's a good friend of him. He's not entertaining. He literally thinks, and me and Harry do the rest, okay? Such a low barrier as well, I think. That's what I bring to the table. You are an animate object. Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm sure you've got a good rule in you though, Sam.

30 centimetres. 30 second metres is where it's at. Unbelievable. I've got two rules. One is definitely more just because I wanted to say it, and one is actually a serious rule. We'll do the serious one first, because obviously this debate should be kicked off properly.

I'll try to do my best. The first one is the categorical removal of B teams. No B teams allowed full stop. And let me just go into a little more detail before we start jumping down my throat, folks. Red ball fans, possibly. You would be allowed to, of course, buy parts. You would, of course, share engine suppliers.

And yes, your drivers can theoretically be signed for other teams that are still part of your overall driver program. but communication, assistance, in season, changing of information or whatever is completely removed, right? It needs to not be a thing. The limitations between teams need to stop. And actually, I think this looks very nice on to what Zach Brown maybe said in an interview, which we're going to talk about in a little bit as well. But it stops there being 10 teams on the track that are all equally fighting for the same goal at the end of the season, right?

We know that Alpha Tauri aren't going to try and win the world championship. It would be amazing if they turned up and they had the fastest car on track, and maybe they would. Maybe all season they'd turn up and go win every single race. But if it was Ghazly first, the Stap and second, Sunoda, 3, Perez, 4th, you're telling me that some higher ups at Red Bull wouldn't go, and switch the cars. Every race, and switch the cars. When I've Red Bull first, Alphotari second, please. And I think that kills a little bit of what is the essence of the sport. the same as with the likes of Williams and the Sangeese, Hasse and Ferrari.

I just think the links need to be broken a little bit. I've got no issue with drivers using those teams as stepping stones or to get yourselves into seats. But I would like there to be more of a separation between B-Tims. So a rule for me would be to remove B-Times in the current sense that we have now. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, I think the question about that one is how easy or difficult would it be to police it? would it be simple enough to halt communications between them or not as a concept? And yeah, you're right.

We'll probably get onto this more with the Zach Brown comments, but it's an interesting one. Harry, have you got one to kick you off on? Yeah, my first one isn't particularly serious, but it's a rule I would like implemented anyway. We don't do serious that well, do we? I mean, sounds is pretty, that's the most serious I've ever heard him. Yeah, I tried.

My rule that I would like implement it is that every year, one team, and it will change every year, one team has to run gold wheels. Oh, shut up. As part of the FIA board, I vote this two to three parts. Two to three, three to one. Oh, yeah, maths. It is a good job on here, isn't it? Yeah, every team has to and because some liveries

wouldn't look good with a gold wheel so they'd have to mix up the liveries to make them go good, go good, go well. I think the gold rims should be the priority over the livery for that season, you're right. Exactly. Yeah.

You really do test my patience, Harry. You really do. No time for your gold wheels. Get out of here. Go play with some hot wheels if you're so interested in all that rubbish. You mean goodness, not rubbish, all that goodness. No, I mean rubbish.

Speaking of, rubbish, here's my first idea. So this one is slightly dependent on how this season goes. Basically, are the cars going to work as we hope they will work overtaking-wise? As you know, DRS is something that I would like to be abolished. I would like DRS gone, but I appreciate that in the last 12 years or so, it's been something of a necessary evil due to how the cars have been. The hope is that they will be better at overtaking, and at some point we can say, well, they're good enough at overtaking by themselves.

We don't need DRS anymore. But I do have a slight compromise in the meantime. I've seen this idea elsewhere, so I can't. claim this is completely original, but I think it's a really good one. I think that DRS should be used when you are between one and two seconds behind the car in front, but not naught to one. So at the moment, it's anything between naught and one second you get DRS. I would change that to one to two seconds. That makes all the sense. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I also thought you were going to go down the kind of push to pass route where they got a limiting amount of DRS per

wouldn't be against that yeah I thought that was kind of up your street but I quite like the one to two seconds yeah I do I spoiler alert my my uh my second one is also kind of DRS related so sorry sorry folks um that's okay because mine's gonna be visual related so therefore would then even more oh good just get it over and done with go on what is it uh it's no gold grims and I've blasted on about this actually multiple times so long time listeners of the podcast. Are you banning blue? He's going to do it.

He will, will he? I'm not not not banging blue. Basically, each team has to selectively choose a distinct colour for the priority of their liveries. I am sick to death of teams banning like, oh, we're blue, we're minty blue. and we're shiny royal blue I don't want to hear that

One of you is blue End of conversation One of you could be yellow One of you could be purple One of you could be black one Could be white one could be red There's enough colours to go round Right

You don't five teams Don't need to have a shake of blue And three teams need to have a shake of red Okay It gets very very dull Especially on the little Track map On the Formula One game

Where I'm trying around going Where's the Red Bull Is that a red ball That's an LP Good Is that, no, that's a Williams. Ah, crap. Is that, you don't know.

You don't know, it's a mystery. Because it's stupid. It's stupid. And I don't like it. And I think every year it should be reassessing. You can make big for the colours if you want, and the money goes for charity. But regardless, more colours on the grid. You know if we did that.

Sorry, Ben. I was going to say, I agree with you. I think it's a great idea. And the punishment should be, if you're not able to do that, you are replaced for the season by arrows. and Enrique Bernaldi and Yoss Verstappen. That's the rule. Deal.

Good, good rule. I think they'd be willing to come back. I was just going to say, you'd know that if that was to be in place, that they would argue so much over the colours that one team would definitely threaten to quit for not being able to use. I'm here for it.

I'm here for that. Teams are threatened to quit over less. Exactly. I want to be yellow, says Eddie Jones. Jordan, probably. Eddie, you don't have a team anymore. Oh. Hey, if Eddie Jordan wants to be yellow, he can be yellow. That's the Eddie Jordan rule. There needs to be an Eddie Jordan clause to your rule. If any Jordan wants a colour, he gets first dix. Yeah, because he's a god. I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. Um, as the famous song by the Rolling Stone said, painting it yellow.

Um, Eddie, it's about any Jordan. That is. It's actually a, uh, Colt plays greatest hit was about. Eddie Jordan. Clocks. Yellow. The scientist. Yes. How good you guess. What's your...

We know it's about DRS, Harry. But what is your second one? Yeah, I mean, I say it's by DRS. It's long and the same... We're not quite long in the same lines, but I would get rid of DRS in the bin with you, Sunshine. And I would go for the IndyCar,

push to past. You've got a certain... an amount of seconds of boost per race system because I just think it's better and it adds an extra element of kind of strategy to it and I know IndyCal they refuel mid-race but

the point still stands you know they use a bit of boost they use a bit more fuel so it adds that kind of jeopardy to it and you know not all drive you get to the end of the race and one driver saved up all their boost and they might be hunting down another driver who hasn't got enough boost left so

yeah bin DRS let's go for a push to pass I'd even go for a, I know we have the energy recovery bugger for a car system over over DRS because I just think there's a bit more, just a bit more tactical to play with than DRS, which is just get behind someone, put DRS on and overtake them, which, you know, isn't the most thrilling thing in the world as we, as we think of. Plus, someone could do a montage of family, Dom Torreto, doing the nitrous bottle and pressing it, and it's a Formula One car. going because it's got ERS and it occurs.

Yeah, that was, you know, when they do the, you know, F-1 do on social media, like explaining the new things about the F-1 car, that's, they'll just show that clip and be like, this is what we're in next year. Family. Hang on for all goes, oh, it's Tokyo drift, and they sing that,

that song, Fast and furious! Classic, that's Terriaki boys, look it up, it's great. I'm glad we haven't gone off track or anything here. This is fantastic. I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that. I'll go with,

because I'm a man with many ideas, most of them bad, so I'm not sure which one to go with. I'm going to go with a qualifying one, and don't worry, it's not aggregate qualifying. That's too good for F1. Too good.

I think that in Q3, only in Q3, you should, we can keep the set. Lession length the same, pretty much, that's fine. But you have to say on your out lap, you basically, you get one shot. And you have to, in the words of M and M. So on that out lap, you have to say, or JLS, whichever takes your fancy, they're very similar.

You have to declare before your flying lap, like, okay, this next lap, this is my timed lap. And that's it. That's the only one you get. I would love to have one shot qualifying in its truest form, but it just with weather and it doesn't quite work. Whereas I think this might be a good alternative where, you know, you might, let's say you do still have the same session length, where at the moment you've got time to do two runs,

maybe someone goes out in the first couple of minutes, sets their lap, they're all done for the session, they don't come back out. What's the benefit of that? A red flag comes about when everyone else is trying to get the best track condition. and the person that's gone with eight minutes left is left laughing because they've got the fastest time. That sort of situation might arise. You know, they're all going to wait until the end of the session and just go then and be like, I'm on my lap.

I'm on my lap and they're all on their lap. That course was something in session entertainment. Enter late breaking for the first eight minutes of qualifying. We'll do an eight minute podcast. Whilst we're waiting for them to come out. Speed round. Who's going to get a poll? I'm not against that, Ben.

It may be exciting to watch. And they have to stay over the radio. I'm going now. That would be more... I was just going to say they can press a button, but actually it'd be interesting to hear the versions of what they say, like, Hammer... Hamilton would have to say it's Hammer Time, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I would like every driver to have a submitted, specialized sentence. Yeah, they have to save the sentence. Yeah. In, like, Top Gun, they all have to say it. their own special names like maverick and goose i want them to have like their own like you're saying it's hammer time um dania ricardo might be um lit the stamp and send it or something like that um i want i want a specialise saying for every single driver everyone listening and if you're in

the discord let us know which all the sayings for each driver what they would be nicholas latifi would go get out my way i'm in a tank boom boom Well, Nicholas Latifu would have to make Q3 for that to work. Oh, I'm not saying we never hear, right? Zing. I'm kidding, Nicholas. You'll be the one laughing when Williams turn up fastest at pre-season testing. Poor George.

So all in all, some great ideas there. I'm sure they'll all be implemented before the season starts. And please get in touch with us because we want to know what your rules would be. Let us know in the Discord. let us know on Twitter and otherwise. Yeah, maybe you've got better ideas than us. You probably do. Let's be fun.

Let's move on to everyone's favorite American, Zach Brown. Sorry, I've managed to really annoy so many Americans by saying they're not my favorite anymore. But Zach Brown, what a guy. You should probably go and read the whole thing because he's not just produced one or two zingers. He's produced like 20.

He's got a lot to say. So we're not going to be able to focus. on all of it here, but we'll at least focus on a few of the highlights. He was basically pretty annoyed at some of the top teams in the way they have conducted themselves, saying that Zach Brown has said before that the teams have too much power and that it needs to be reduced. And he said it was something like a pantomime audition

towards the end of last year, particularly relating to Abbey-Dabby. So, Sam, I know you've done your pre-reading on this, so well done. What did you make of his comments? Well, it is famously known that KFC have created the Zingerberger based on Zach Brown's incredibly famous sayings during interviews. And you know what? I was a fan of Zach Brown before this interview, but now I'm a full-blown air conditioning unit because the man has absolutely nailed it on their heads. Honestly, so many good points.

Go and read it. He's made so many good points. And I think he's bang on. I think he's exactly right. The big teams have a bit of a stranglehold on the sport. And we've seen that with just the last season alone, the domination in the radio, in the airwaves that Christian Horner and Toto Wolf had to Michael Massey. You know, we've had a few famous moments now, which are long of us like to quote.

And they get to pick and choose. You know, rules get changed for entertainment, you know, whether you agree with it or not. Rules weren't applied properly. And now they're sitting here saying that because of sprint races, they feel like the budget cap should be adjusting. And remember this is the teams with the most money saying this. This isn't the smaller teams going, oh, can we have an allowance or a change please

because we're desperately in need of some more renovation or some will change. This is Mercedes-Benz, one of the biggest car manufacturers in the world, or Ferrari, the highest spending team in Formula One, or Red Bull, you know, some of the biggest investors going, going, can we have more money, please? Are we allowed to spend even more money now? Zat Brown, who, to be fair, has got a lot of investors on his side and a loss of sponsorship, is going, stop it.

stop being silly please deal with the cars that you've been dealt and try and wing using the same level of resource as everyone else and i think that brown is fighting the the everyday viewers fight of we want a championship with 10 teams on an equal playing field that you know what best engineers best drivers best combination of team and driver behind the wheel come out on top and i am all for it uh zapp brown makes similar points as what i said earlier with the b teams and because of my reading, that is partially where I got my idea from on the rules set earlier. I think Zach Brown is exactly wrote with what he said as well. They hold too much power. He has nailed it. I love how outspoken he is. And when he is outspoken, he frames it in such a brilliant way.

I'm sure you've all seen the photo of Zach Brown standing at his desk where it says, you know, you know, you know, most bosses will have just their name on the desk. It says, I'm the boss of you, F words, on his desk. And I love that about him. The man knows how to make a point. And he's not silly, unlike us, with his points. He makes them and he a stick. So go read the article, if you haven't, because I think he's done a very good job at telling the big teams to get a grip, to start dealing with the resources they've been given, and saying that, you know what, you're scared.

You're scared that you're going to get beaten by a team that's got half the resource of you, because now wrong 11 playing field, and you can't win a championship by getting a cheque book out. I think he's exactly right. I think he's exactly right. Some people love the innovation, some people love the mass spending, but I am excited to see a grid where anyone can, achieve anything because the resource levels are the same.

I'll start with the sprint races comment because I think he does raise a very good point here. As you know, I'm a massive fan of sprint races. So, you know, if they don't have the money to do it, we'll just have to scrap it. Never mind. I do think Zach Brown is 100% correct with what he said on sprint races. And I'm glad someone has called out the big teams on this. This is a bit of a Sam analogy actually But I'm going to make it

The way I compare it to So imagine sprint races Has just turned 18 or 21 If you're in America So they can legally drink But all of their mates haven't Haven't yet got to that age So sprint races walks to the bar

And orders six beers And the bars are they all for you You're the only one Who's going to be drinking this, right? If I give you these six beers they're not going to any of your underage friends, right? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course not.

It's going to your mate's aerodynamics and engine and all the other friends. You don't need that money for sprint races. You're just going to invest it on other things that you don't need to invest on because you've hit your limit on it already. Okay? I'm not buying it, sprint races.

Not buying it at all. So on that, on that, I think it's really. ridiculous what they've come up with. But all of his other points to what you've already said, Sam, they're all spot on. And do you have to take it with a pinch of salt because McLaren aren't a member of those big teams anymore?

Would Zach Brown be saying these same things if he was in someone else's shoes? Sure, but they're good points nonetheless, regardless of who's raising them. If you give teams the power, I've said this multiple times, if you give teams the power, they will dictate terms to massively benefit themselves. That's what they're going to do. And you can't even blame them for that. You can't blame the teams for trying to do everything they can to win. They've got shareholders to report back to. They've got prominent people within the road card divisions of their team. You can't expect teams to have this overarching conscience that's going to put themselves above the money and the

winning. It doesn't work like that. So just create a sport in which they can't even try and get away with it. Create a sport where it's not even possible for them to try and bend the rules. If you give them potential direction on, oh, what would you like this rule to be or how would you like this to work? Sure, get some guidance on long-term issues. And Zach Brown was, he said that in his article. He said, yeah, you know, consult the teams about long-term issues and get their input. That's fine. But don't let the teams dictate rules and dictate how F1 should be run because you are going to find that they will do it for the benefit of themselves. They won't do it for the benefit of the fans. And they won't do it for the benefit of other manufacturers that might want to enter. And we don't want to create

this massive barrier of entry. But if you allow the current teams to do what they want, they're going to dictate everything to themselves, not potentially people coming in. So I do think F1 has a bit of a problem and I think these teams need to understand that it is a privilege to be an F1, it is a privilege to be here and you will adhere

to the rules of Formula 1 as Formula 1 want them that creates a brilliant sport not what creates a brilliant environment for the teams competing. Harry, what were your thoughts on Zach Brown's words? Yeah, I mean, I totally

agree with what you both said already and and I don't actually have too much more to add but I've thought for a long time that F1 has got himself into a complete mess with how it governs and rules to sport because they've got these big teams lobbying them all the time and they now have too much power and it's kind of a vicious circle

because if they try and take that power away there's every likelihood these teams will just threaten to quit and either will quit or you know F1 will have to back down it should be that call their bluff yeah go on Ben love it

call their bluff well I think F1 it should be here is our sport here is our lovely sporting championship

these are the rules if you don't like them don't join off you go and then and then carry on so you know you might

you might have a few casualties on the way but I think in the long run it would make it a better sport to be in slash watch and enjoy. But I just think it's such a, be such a bold move for Formula One to Take. I don't know whether they ever would. I hope they would. But yeah, like you say, Ben, maybe they need to call their bluff. And, you know, because it's still what these teams, they are obviously doing all they want as much they can to win.

And you can't really blame them for it. But even if they did leave it. It's quite a major investment for a lot of them and they get, you know, the likes of Mercedes, they get quite a lot of dollar out of winning. So whether they would actually quit is it remains to be seen. But yeah, Zach Brown, it was kind of out the blue that article, wasn't it? Everyone was a bit sleepy from the off season.

He was just like, hey, just going to drop, it's going to drop this, a bombshell. And yeah, it was good. Good stuff, Zach. Love it. And to be fair, to your point, Ben, about, you know, if he was in a top team, would he be saying it? and I'm sure he probably wouldn't be. But it gives it more credibility

because he joined McLaren when arguably they weren't a top team anymore. He joined in 2016, end of 2017 or something like that, 2016 maybe. They were well on their way to midfield slash bottom end stardom by that point. So he's never experienced them at their height as a top team.

So I think it just gives that extra bit of credibility to what he's saying here. I'm starting to think that actually, Zach Brown, the only reason he came out with this is to give us content.

He just, he loves the podcast. He's a friend and he just doesn't know it yet. I'm a big fan. Yeah. Air conditioning unit. That's what you are.

Full blowing air conditioning unit. That's the worst, probably one of the worst things you've ever said. Yeah. I think that's the best thing I've ever said. Quite possibly. Well,

horrendous. Hopefully the next point you make is a good one, Sam, because if it is you might well find you're on the end of some gunge. Dave Benson Phillips is being let out for the first time this year. It's time for F1, pump the brakes. Short and sweet.

Love it. Lovely. Good back it. F1, punt breaks. If you have not heard this segment before, each of us will take it in turns to deliver an opinion, a slightly bold opinion, and see what the other two think about it. If the other two think that your opinion is absolutely fine,

then you're allowed to go home gunge-free. However, if both of the other people think that your opinion is dead right, wrong and you should stop thinking that immediately, you will be told to pump the brakes, and that's where Dave Benson-Philips Children's TV Hero will come in and gunge, not literally, but at least audio-wise, the person who made the opinion. it's very simple you'll catch on soon enough

Harry do you want to go first pump the brakes what have you got for us mine relates to some news we had about practice sessions for 2022 which apparently now back up to 90 minutes apiece which you know I love F1

but they don't need that much time per practice session but my pump the brakes is that I think that the first 30 minutes of these sessions if we are and you're going to have 90 minutes. They should be dedicated to the, I'm not going to put a number next week, but the bottom, I don't know, five, ten, I don't know,

they're not ten teams, bottom five teams, or bottom ten drivers. I don't say drivers, bottom five teams or bottom ten drivers, and they get that extra half an hour practice, whereas the top five teams or top ten drivers do not get it. It's almost like, and this is,

I guess this one is a British niche reference but almost like gladiators when you start the whistle on the and it's like you get the head start if you've done a good job but it's the opposite of that so you're saying essentially that if you're doing all right

you get less practice time yeah hmm Sam what do you think I'm going to have to take up up the brakes mate you're going to get gang on this one. I know Ben's opinion already. I think that this

is a little unfair on the team that currently sits the one spot above the 10 drivers or the 5th into the 4th team, for example. If that's one point difference, oh, I think that's a little unfair.

It might swing the next race and then they're in the extra practice. The Gunges machine might swing, I'm in it as well, onto your head. I do think I think that this is very much like a conversation we had a little while ago, which is kind of biased towards, you know, losers. And I like a level playing field.

We need things to be biased towards losers, Sam. That's true. That's true. We might get somewhere alive. If you're an official sponsor, please go. We, yeah. So for me, this is like when we brought up the weight conversation, you know, So should the wingers in the previous race run wait in the car or something like that?

I think it's the same line. I want a level playing field. I think if the Elven of the Formula One, you should have Formula One, and that's why I brought up the points about the cost cap and things like that. Everyone's at the same level now. Deal with it. Make the most of what you got. I think that should be the same with the likes of time.

But it's a nice idea. I like the idea. I just don't think it will work as intended. So no. I hate it. Thanks, Sam. I would tell you my opinion. But Dave Benson Phillips can do it so much.

better than I. Go it. You know it. Oh, you nerds. Oh, God, Dave, just 50 Pete. I have to say, Harry, I thought halfway through that point

you were going to say something that I might well have agreed with, but then you went down the wrong path. I thought you were going to say something along the lines of if you get that first half an hour of practice and that's dedicated to young drivers of the teams or reserved

drivers of the teams, which I might well have said okay to, but not by championship. Yeah, whatever. So mature. It says as he just played a gunger effect. Longer than our thing. Yeah, I know. That's the best thing about pump the brakes, isn't it? So it's not a good start.

Well, it is for Dave Benson Phillips. He gets paid 50p for everyone that he doesn't. so he's up at the moment. Sam, have you got a good one to share? Probably not a good one, folks. I've been struggling with these. Every time we come around to pump the brakes, I have to think a little harder,

a little longer about an actual opinion. I don't know if I agree with them. I think that Formula One will be more entertaining if Blue flags were removed, and lead drivers had to actually fight their way past potential lapse traffic, and the lap traffic did not have to give up, up positions. It is a rule that is in likes

of GT3, a world endurance and stuff. You know, you don't get penalised for not giving up that position. So, I think it'll be more interesting. It'll be more fun. I think the likes of Monaco would be pure hell. What are your thoughts on that one, Harry? I think I like it.

I think, oh God, Monaco would be ridiculous though, wouldn't it? But I think, you know, all too often they're screaming for blue flags. Get past them, get past them yourselves. You're that quick. You might as well get past.

Yeah, I'll agree with Sam. I like it. Yes! Well, you won't be gunged regardless of what my opinion is. And I honestly don't know. I'm kind of 50-50 on this one. In terms of fairness, I should say, no, they should let them pass.

They're not racing each other, even though they are on the same part of the track. But also, I've been watching a lot of late 19, cart recently and it's good fun it's good fun to see cars try and get past about i mean there are flags but it's um you know they don't listen to them do they exactly and it's fun and it's produced quite a few exciting moments so um it doesn't actually matter why i say because you're not going to get gunged anyway oh go on then i'm feeling nice woo that's my first double pass ever I could believe that.

Oh, yes, Dave, back in. Get in there. 50 p's mine. He might want to come out again because we've got my one coming up and I feel like there are going to be some people who might well lynch me for this one. There are going to be some that do not like this one at all.

So get ready in the Discord and such. And it comes with an if statement. If Bahrain had grasped, more grass and gravel it would be a better circuit than Monza what if it was sand yeah fine it's

just whatever just something that deters from going too far that isn't just more taller oh baby it's a triple I am

going to say we do have some good races at Bahrain but I think I'm going to say put on the brakes because I think we also have some belts as at Monza but that's that's a tough one that's a real toughie because I think Barrein

is up there as a really good circuit and some extra grass and gravel it's definitely what that place needs um I don't know whether that would to be honest I don't know whether it would actually improve it that much um I'm thinking more and I'm thinking about the

corner that Hamilton cut a hundred times and Vastafel. Yeah. That is funny. Also potentially I can't remember the corner number the god awful left-hander that is awful to drive on the game.

Downhill left-hander? Yeah, that one. Maybe on the turn 11, 12th. Exit of that. I don't know. There might be a few spots, but. Anyway, I'm saying putting the brakes, but that's a real tough one, Benjamin.

Sam? You know, there are times in this podcast where I feel like the three of us should have access to the soundboard because Benjamin, I'm going to tell you can pump the brakes, my friend. Getting the gunge! Yes, Dave, come on.

Extra. Put extra on. Oh, that's disgusting. He's worked hard for that. That's an old pound for Dave. It's an old pound. Yeah, get yourself down the tuck shop, mate. Get yourself to the sweeties.

With the cost of living increasing, you are already getting yourself one curly, whirley. But hey, something. We've proper got British reference after we started off American, yeah. I think Monser is one of the best tracks in World Racing. I absolutely love it. I think it produces fantastic racing.

95% of the time that we get there. DRS and ODRS, I think it is phenomenal. think that Bahrain is one of the most underrated racetracks on the Formula One calendar. I think it is a brilliant race track. I really love going there. I think it was a great racing. I'm glad that we got at the silly other track that we started off

when we first went to Bahrain with. It had like an extra seven-course. Yeah, not a fan of that. I did like the outer loop. I wouldn't have it every single time, but I did like the outer loop. So, yeah, I know I enjoy Bahrain, but do I think it will change it up enough that it will be better than the likes of Monser? No.

But you know what? I enjoyed that opinion, Benjamin. Good one. Yeah, just to clarify as well on this one, I don't dislike Monza. I think Monza is a great track as well. I just think that Bahrain is brilliant. And the only reason I think that Monza is slightly better at the moment

is because of that little bit of extra jeopardy of running wide, which isn't always there at Bahrain. I think Bahrain's massively on the road. I really do. Agreed. Agreed. So Dave Benson Phillips, two out of three. He's got to be pretty happy.

Sam, you're the only one that avoided it this week, so what on. I think we'll leave it there for this episode, but next one's going to be special. Q&A, isn't it, Sam? It is the Q&A. We've had some good questions come through already on all the different platforms, whether it's in the Discord over on Twitter,

or on our Instagram late-breaking. We've got many places for you to ask us anything. If you want to ask us anything, Formula One related or or email of course you can send either a voice message which will get played on the podcast you can hear yourself on the podcast which is fun

or you can of course send in text and we'll read it out you get your name mention which is lovely if you want to ask us to send about F1 of course we always talk about Formula One we are also people if you'd like to get to know us for any bizarre reason then you're also welcome to ask

what is our favourite pizza topic to have on a Wednesday do we like tea or coffee? Why are we actually friends? Which one's got the worst shoes? All of these things are valuable, valuable, correct, valuable questions. It's fuming and that is fuming. Tampen.

What does crib mean if it's not talking about a baby? These are all questions that you're welcome to ask and we happily provide answers to. They're all very niche. Sorry, those are in awning side joke. for the most part. Do get involved though. Do get involved.

If you want to be on the podcast, if your name rang out, your little question ran out, now's your chance. Also, other things happening. Other things are happening. We've got a gaming night coming up tomorrow. We're going to be doing it over.

Well, is it tonight, tomorrow. What day is this going out on? I don't know. It will be tomorrow. As of when we record, it's tomorrow. But if you listen to this on a Thursday night in the UK, you might have missed a gaming night. No, that's true.

It's Thursday, the 20th of January and it's going to be is it 8 o'clock we've said GMT correct turn up at some point between 6 and 10 and we might be there guys yeah come and find us we're doing some racing on the Formula 1 game on the PlayStation sorry to all other consoles or PCs we'll give you love another time

and also Mr Hawking is put around and putting down the quiz mark 2 that is going to be coming out this weekend on the Discord so if you're going to get involved, that is Saturday night GMT time, 7 o'clock on Saturday night. Done on what that is for the rest of the world. You work it out, you've got Google. Get involved, loads of things happening. Also, I'm sure I can say this now. I own 33% on this podcast. You win some merch if you win the quiz. We've decided that the winner will get a piece of merch.

We've not decided what item yet, but yeah, you'll actually get something. So, enjoy it. enjoy it. So much happening! I've spoken for so long there. I'm exhausted. Yeah. Can we win a late-breaking pizza? Sorry, a late-breaking Wednesday pizza, to be very clear. Maybe if we ever do a live recording of the podcast, we'll make sure that pizza is on the menu for the people to turn up. Yeah. Only if it's on a Wednesday, then. Only.

Right, Sam, don't you say, and I've been San Tate? Yeah, I think you usually say something. Sorry, I'll talk about Peterstar, I was just enjoying the thought. Yeah, in the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been a gold wheel. And remember, keep breaking late. Full-blown air conditioning.

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