The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Should Red Bull lose their championships for cost cap breach?

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

The results of the 2021 cost cap audit were released this week, with just Red Bull found to have breached the limit by a 'minor' amount. The LB boys discuss their potential penalty, plus they talk about the news that Gasly will be driving for Alpine in 2023, and also play F1: Higher or Lower... JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 Podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the Lake Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, Ian the Cat and me, Ben Hocking. Got a great show for you lined up tonight. It's finally cost cap time that we're going to be discussing. that's going to make up a large chunk of today's show, as will come as no surprise, I'm sure.

F1 higher and lower coming up later on, GASley joining Alpine 2. Sam, how are you feeling? Because we are actually at the start of a double recording. We're going to do one for this weekend, but we're going to record them back to back. It's going to be a lot of LB in one day. Yeah, sick of you already.

But, you know, we're very used to that. We do hate each other endlessly. So, you know, we'll just push on through. At least I get all my anger out in one evening. of the week instead of having to save it for two separate, hateful days. So, yeah, it's all good. And Ian's here to help. Yeah, Ian, you've got a shout out. She's not looking at me,

folks. See if I can get her to say something. She's got nothing to say. Or any more good points than you've ever made certain, I'm afraid. I'm a cat, yeah. She doesn't actually, she's got meow. She's got brain damage, so she just just going to scream. Bless Ian. She's a good girl. She's a good girl.

Anyway, Hang up for the cat. Oh dear. I can't remember what I was going to follow up Sam's point with, but, you know. It would have been insightful, I'm sure. Good. Good. Good. It's good to have you, Harry.

Cheers. It's always a risk as to whether I'm going to turn up, so it's good to be here. It is fair. Should we get into some cost cap discussion then? Because finally, not quite on time. but the FIA did deliver a statement on Monday, which is two days before we're recording today. We know that there was a $145 million limit in 2021 on spending. It was confirmed by the FIA on Monday that Red Bull have overspent that mark by a minor amount,

minor meaning less than 5%. So somewhere within the region of one cent and $7.5 million, where it is in that range, we have absolutely no idea. but there is going to be some sort of punishment to follow. Again, it's a bit of a question mark as to what that's going to be. It could be a public reprimand. It could be a deduction in constructors or driver's points from 2021. Limitations on testing, reduction in a future cost cap, a couple of other things as well. And of course, it can be multiple of those that I've just listed there.

The question is, what do we think the verdict should be? We'll get on to what we think it will be in our next segment. but Sam, what do you think the FIA should do about this situation? It's got to be severe, hasn't it? Whether it be 20 quid or whether it be, you know, what is it room move? The 5.7, 5.3, something like that million, that's the number that keeps getting passed around all the journals keep coming out with this 5 million mark, which 5 million of anything is a lot really, isn't it?

You know, whether you have 5 million front wings or 5 million chicken wings, Too many wings. The point being, there's a lot of money to spend. And Lewis Hamilton came out with a quote that said, you know, even if we spent 300,000 over the budget, that would give us an extra flaw or an extra front wing element, which could be the difference between winning a race

or just being on the podium. And that, you know, that's severe. So if you think they have spent, I know, upwards of 5 million, you've got a time to whatever Lewis Hamilton's development brain thinks by at least 10. So you're going to get a lot of progression. The point here is it needs to be strong, it needs to send a message to the rest of the grid and to any other potential teams. It needs to make sure that the punishment outweighs the negatives of spending, right?

The cost of spending. It can't just be, you've gone five million over, just give us another five million. Because big teams like Red Bull, big teams like Ferrari or Mercedes, who have got endless buckets of cash, will go, if we give, if we overspend by five million and the punishment is, give the FIA 5 million. Well, that's, okay, 10 million technically. That's fine. No worries, we'll do that every single year, right? They'll just see it as an extra 10 million on the cost cap.

You can't do it. I think a financial penalty simply doesn't work in this matter. The big teams that are going to break the cost cap already have too much money. It's not a severe punishment. What you need to do is you need to damage them to the point where spending that extra five, 10, whatever it might be, hurts them to the point where, you know, they cannot make up that ground again, at least by spending that or double what I think they've broken. So I disagree with the calls of stripping their 2021 championships, whether it be from Fostappen, whether it be

from Red Bull taking part in this year. I disagree with however you want to do it with punishments. They've come and gone, it's happened. What I want to see is a punishment severe enough that it is going to damage them. I'd argue for at least the next two seasons, push it to three. You know, no testing, I think is a really, really good one. And I don't just mean no winter testing. And I don't just mean no testing on tunnel time. I mean, you eliminate them from testing for the next season. So no winter testing, no free practice sessions, no tunnel time, no development time. You've got to build that car on your initial budget. That's all you get. That's a year. Adrian knew he can see particles anyway, so I'm sure he'll.

do a relatively decent job. But, you know, that means no upgrades, unless you're guessing, in my opinion, it has to hurt them. It has to hurt them for a long time. They've got to fear breaking this budget because teams like Haas, who are already struggling with that financial input, seems like Williams, who we've seen, are not able to meet that top end criteria. What are they gaining if there's no proper punishment for it? They're playing by the rules, and they're not getting anything out of it. You look at Paul Alfa Mayer who turned up, in winter testing, the only team to meet the weight level that was required. What happened?

Sorry, just chuck on some more weight because everyone else broke the rules. So you have to just do it anyway. I don't want that. And I'm sick of the FIA having rules sets, which are, you know, oh, we'll debate and negotiate. No, no, no. Rules are rules. And it's about time that the FIA goes, you broke the rules.

There's no contesting. There's no taking it to court. There's no protests going on. You broke the rules. We found out you broke the rules. And whether, like I said, that be on front wings or chicken wings, you have broken the rules. Every other team managing not break the rules. So you take this punishment and it has to be severe.

Otherwise, teams like I've said, like Mercedes and Ferrari will take the absolute Mickey for years to come. And why wouldn't you? I would. If the cost of cheating was simply just to pay that amount of money again and I had billions in the bank, which the Mercedes franchise does, I'd pay it. Why not? The game is better. I'll pick a prize money if I win the championship.

So it's got to be severe, and I think they need to damage them for the future seasons to come. And like I've said, all testing and development has to cease for at least one whole season. I argue it can be longer, but I feel like I'm being very harsh there. But yeah, at least one whole season without any form of testing. Wind tunnel.

Was it CFD, I think it's the testing type that they get. It's like testing time. No on-track testing. You just turn up for qualifying and races for one whole season. You could just have a separate cost cap and a separate chicken cost cap. That would eliminate the wings issue, right? Then you separate the wings out into front wings and chicken wings. Exactly.

Come on. I'm with him. I'm with him. I'm with him. I'm here to produce solutions, people. Harry, what do you think should be the punishment handed down by the FIA? So, firstly on this one, the past. 10 days, so since it all came, well, maybe, I don't know, almost two weeks,

since it all came out of Singapore, the discourse over the past 10 days has been rancid, like on social media more than normal, and even in the media, it's been rancid. And so much so that I don't really give a fuck about this anymore. Oh, whoa! He's beeped himself! Harry, I'm sorry, but you know where the beep is. It's in your downloads. In the words of George Russell, crikey!

I'm so tired about reading about I know we've we've we anyway Ben said I've got to make a point so I'm going to make a point but I'm just saying I'm putting it out there I'm putting it out the Ben's center schedule so I'm going to make a point the thing I'm the the organization I'm most mad with here and don't come at me people saying I'm a rebel apologist because they're still in the wrong the organization I'm most mad at here is the bloody FIA because they had what is fundamentally a good idea, well done, good idea, and we still managed to balls it up. Because what is the point in this five percent? I think Martin Bronner said something very similar. What is the point in this 5% leeway?

Because as you mentioned, Sam, or it might have been Ben, both of you, it could be $7 million. That could be $7 million. So why, I'm not even necessarily that, look, I'm still, they're still in the wrong, but I'm not even that mad at Red Bull because I think, there were in any way that F1 teams do, whether it's through technical regulations like like Mercedes with the DAS system or or, or I don't know, flexible wings. They're pushed. They thought they found a loophole with the way they're placing, they're allocating their budget. And they push the boundaries and they've got it wrong. There's no other way they've got it wrong. So there should be a punishment.

But we shouldn't be in this position anyway. So I'm annoyed of that. I'm also. annoyed that the FIA couldn't make a decision quick enough. Why is why we hear almost a year later having this conversation. Yeah, I know, Jesus Christ, making this, having this conversation. And then also they drop and drop the bombshell about what be suspected already that Red Bull were over. But has anyone said anything about what the punishment is? Why don't you know what that is already? If you know what the, what the crime is. So why are we left here with with the F1 world? and F1 fan bases launching war at each other

when we could this could be done already so I'm cheesed off about that I'm I'm with with Sam on I don't think they should be stripped not a huge fan of stripping you know strip

I'm not a strip fan that's a good quote for this podcast I'm not I'm not a huge fan of that and I know we had it with McLaren back in 07, but, but there's, you know, it just feels harsh on the amount of people that are in an F1 team, the majority of which have no idea what's happened here. So, so I feel harsh about that. So I wouldn't go for, you know, I wouldn't take constructors or drivers championships away,

but I'm with Sam. It's got to be something severe financially, development-wise. You take away, you take away wind tunnel time. You punish them severely enough that, you know, it's got to contribute their, punished with a financial penalty, which then, you know, they have less money for their own budget cap for this year or 2023, whatever it may be. I don't have the answer to what the exact punishment should be, because I'm not the FIA, and that's their job. But anyway, enough about you, FIA. I'm just, never seen you so animated. I'm just, it's been, like, looking at Twitter,

and maybe this is, I should stop looking at Twitter so much, but just, it's been awful. It's a horror show, isn't it? And the best of times, it can be a bad place. And I'm not saying it is all the time. And, you know, we're all four, four of us, three of us and Ian. All three of us on there. We obviously have the late breaking account. And we, you know, for the most part, we, it's all lighthearted stuff.

And we, you know, we treat it lightheartedly. But past past couple of weeks has been, it's been horrendous. So maybe that's clouding my view here. But I think I'm, I was on, you know, in terms of punishment, I was on the same lines anyway. So yeah, I'm kind of with Sam. I don't have a firm idea of what the penalty should be, but it should be financial. I don't think any championship should be taken away.

Anyway, I'm going to hand over to, whilst he's been going on, cynical Ben has, like the Hulk, he's been morphing. That's true. He's been expanding into spicy Ben. Spicy Ben. Spicy Ben. So off he goes.

It's like a chicken legend with the spicy barbecue. The spiciest I get. is, you know, sort of the second level up in terms of Anandos, you know, like a lemon and herb. I'm no, I'm no spicier than that as a person, really. I'm a lemon and herb bang. I'm a lemon and herb guy.

I'll run with it, though. The first point I actually want to make is exactly the same point that Harry kicked off with because I am a massive fan generally. I'm a massive advocate of healthy debate, but the key is in the title there, the word healthy. And there has been a lot of toxicity and a lot of division around this topic that I have really not enjoyed seeing. So I would encourage anyone who has vested interest in this.

Keep debating it. Please do, because I think that's good. But please be respectful to the person you're having a discussion with. Just remember there is another person on the end of the discussion that you're having with please. Because, yeah, like Harry says, there has. there have been some not nice things over the last 10 days or so. I've thought a lot about what I think the punishment should be. And the conclusion that I've come to, as Harry has kind of alluded to already, regarding the nickname, is not a popular one. And good news for anyone who doesn't like this,

there's no way this happens either. But in terms of what I think should happen, I think that Red Bull should be stripped of all of their drivers and Constructors points from 2021. Now that sounds and probably is incredibly harsh. And despite the fact that I'm advocating for this, I'm actually of the same opinion that I really hate it. I do not like stripping championships years after they've happened.

One year, 10 years, doesn't matter. I hate it pretty much as much as you've said so. But I've tried to convince myself that this shouldn't be the penalty. But I would be lying to myself and to everyone. if I didn't think that this was fair based on everything that I think F1 should be and my own set of morals and values and beliefs. I think that they should be stripped of both in terms of the points.

At its core, Red Bull's 2021 season was illegal. It was illegal. You have a certain amount to spend. They overspent on it. It is a regulation. And if this was a technical regulation or a sporting regulation, they would be disqualified from the very weekend in which they committed that crime. Now, this is a bit different in that it's for the season as a whole, obviously.

It's for the whole 12 months. But if you're getting disqualified at a very particular race for breaking a technical rule, I think you should be disqualified for breaking this rule, this financial rule, throughout the entire year. There's been a lot of discussion on transparency. And I agree, I think it would be great for the FIA to tell us, whether it is 10 cents or 7.4 million because, hey, guess what, folks, there's a bit of a difference between those two numbers, but I actually think what I think in terms of punishment would be

the exact same thing. I don't think I would change my opinion, regardless of where it ends up in that category. And I completely agree with you in terms of what you said. The minor and major thing is ridiculous. What makes 7.4 million minor and 7.6 million major? Complete nonsense. There are a few people here as well, and that will call this harsh, and I completely understand that, who will say, well, they overspent a bit on catering, is the line that's going around. How can you strip a championship or go too harsh because they've overspent on catering? I would say to you this, I think you're missing the point entirely. The cost cap includes absolutely everything that is set out at the beginning of the year.

You might set internal budgets and internal divisions as to how you want to split up that overall $145 million, but ultimately that's only internal. You can do so however you like, but externally, doesn't matter. You can say, well, we overspent two million on catering. Well, no, you didn't. You overspent on two million on catering based on your own projections, your own estimates. You know, you could spend 90 million of the 145 on catering if you wanted to and hire Gordon Ramsey to do everything for the entire year. That's on you. It's all part of one big budget. you don't overspend on one particular item, you overspend on everything. And as Sam said in terms of the Lewis Hamilton point, a couple hundred thousand can go a long way,

can go a few temps. That can be everything. It would have been everything last season based on how close Red Bull and Mercedes were. And I know there are a lot of people who think that constructors who are advocating for Constructors' Championship, but not driver's championship, because it does seem incredibly harsh on a driver who has no sense. say whatsoever in the budget. I agree with that. However, Formula One at its core is a sport where you win as a team and you lose as a team. And I think everything else, roughly speaking,

falls under that category. So if a driver crashes their car, drivers and constructors' points are affected by that. If a strategist messes up a strategy, the drivers and the constructors is impacted by that. If you need to take a grid penalty as a result of using one too many components of your power unit. Both sides are affected by that, which is why I can't myself advocate for just one of those two championships being impacted, both benefited from a car and from a team that was ultimately illegal based on the cost cap. I'll end with this and say, you're absolutely right, both of you, the crime, even if you don't agree with what my punishment would be, you kind of have to agree that the punishment needs to out

outweigh the benefit of doing it in the first place. And I think what you've outlined would probably do so because if you're just going to reprimand or you're going to incur a small fine, there's no reason for them not to do it again, right? We know that before the cost cap, Mercedes and Ferrari in particular, but also Red Bull, overspent their rivals by hundreds of millions of dollars. So you, it sounds mad, but you could, you could find Red Bull $100 million. I think they'd do exactly the same thing again. I really think that. they would if it meant a championship at the end of the day. So I don't think a fine or a reprimand is appropriate. And like I say, even if you don't go with what I think, what you said in

terms of testing, I think that would probably be my next avenue to go down. That would make sense. And before I finish, just to say, this does not in any way from my side diminish what Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez were able to do last season. Max Verstappen was still, in my opinion, driver of 2021. He was excellent all year, and I feel harsh saying that this should be the punishment. But ultimately, I can't go against what I think is fair. A bit of a question only for you both. Obviously, the budget cap, right, is season by season.

Yeah, we have one each season. But nowhere in the rules does it say that you can't take a portion of 2021's budget cap and apply it to 2022, right? You could say 30 million on that budget cap, we're going to give to our engineers for future development, work on those future regulations, start developing car parts the season before. Nothing in the rules stops you from,

you could build a car for 2030 if you really bloody wanted to, stupid, waste of money, but you could do it. So, do you think that Red Bull's serious advantage this season could partially be down to the overspending of the 2021, season. And if so, how deep do you think a punishment should really go? If that was found, if they looked into the findings and saw that that was affected? I think it is very realistic to believe that, yeah, I mean, you spend a heck a lot on development on next year's car during the current season. So, yes, it probably is impacting this season a little bit. How much is anyone's

guess? In terms of punishment, it becomes really difficult because unlike some other sports that have cost caps. It's not just everything happens within one season and you can punish it just on that one year. There's no way of telling how much that overspend last year. It benefited them this year, next year, three years time. It might still do. You can't tell, which is why my idea of punishment would just impact the season in which the spend happened because I think it gets messy after that point. That's part of my reasoning for my punishment. Harry, any thoughts? I won't make a better point than Ben did, so I won't contribute here. Don't put yourself down, Harry.

No, I am, it's entirely plausible. And you think about last year, the cars were, bar the sort of changes that were mandatory to the floor, the cars were all pretty much the same as they were in 2020 because we obviously delayed the new regs by year. So yes, they were obviously bringing new parts of the car, but I think it's a fair thing to say that maybe they were actually overspending on this. car and that's how they've ended up over.

But yeah, it's a very strong possibility, though that's why they're so good this year. And, you know, they keep saying that they started development quite late because they were pushing so hard last year. But yeah, it seems hard to believe, given the position they're in. So we'll never know because they'll never tell us. That's so true. They're so FIA.

So Formula One. I do feel sorry for Stappen and Perez, because there will be, I mean, obviously, you need to, and folks listening, you need to, if you're a big fan of Red Bull, if you're a big fan of Mercedes or whatever it might be, you need to separate the antics that happened on track, right? Max and Skapland, Sergio Perez will, firstly, have no idea what amount of money is being spent on what. They won't know that, I don't know, let's say, 80 million was dedicated to the development of the chassis for the 2021 car. They won't know that. Charges are very slim. And then you also, don't know for them how much is being put forward, how much is being spent on technical staff, how much is being spent on catering, if you really declare that as a top level requirement. You know, Maxwell Stafford drove his heart out last season. And yes, it was controversial. Again, not his fault, it was controversial.

But does that mean that he should be punished for his team's actions? But Ben made a fair point of, at the end of the day, it is a team sport and you win or lose together. Be interesting to hear what everyone listening thinks and maybe you can get involved over, on Twitter, if you'll be nice, at Elbreaking. Or join the Discord. The link's in the description. You can come and chat to us there. I think there's over 1,400 people chatting everyone in there. So lovely community, not like Twitter at all.

Everyone's very fair. Yeah, give it a try. And if you are horrible, then we'll just, we'll just block you because we don't do that. We've had to do that once, literally once. Yeah. We're just pretty good going when you think about it. And we do actually have some, yeah, we have some

Discord submissions a little bit. well, probably about five, ten minutes time, where we'll see what other people think about what the punishment should be. Just we'll sort of round this off in terms of how we can avoid this again, because I think regardless of what you think the punishment should be from the lower end of the scale to the upper end of the scale, I don't think anyone actually wants to deal with this and it's more of a necessity based on what's happened. So Sam, how do we avoid getting to this scenario again, is it a clearer outline of what the punishment should be? Is it an earlier submission of the cap? What do you think needs to happen? Yeah, I think it's a combination of all those things that

you've mentioned. It can't just be a one solution fits every scenario. For me, the first thing you do is you remove this minor or major breach. It is a silly, silly way of dividing up money. and when 300,000 or 30 million can make differences, you know, 300,000 might gain you half a second a lap. 30 million might gain you two seconds a lap. I don't know how it works, but Lewis Hamilton, the man that's won seven championships and over 100 races are said,

300,000 makes a difference. So whether it be 7.4 million or 7.6 million, as you said, Ben, that division line doesn't make any sense to me. I think it needs to be. If you overspent, you overspent. By a penny, a pound, or 100 million pounds, even though it's in dollars, that needs to go. There also needs to be a very clear understanding of what the punishment will be

if you overspend. I think that needs to be broken up into certain things. And I think you need to have a reduction of maybe points or you start the next season with a negative amount of points paired with a wind tunnel testing development time for the next whole season. And then that way, you're clear on what you're getting. You're clear that you're going down this. same route that everyone would go down if you break the rules and it's not going to be a,

let's take this behind closed doors with our legal team and have a debate and will come to a private conversation, a private agreement that no one will ever know. That can't happen. It can't be a behind closed doors agreement. That also needs to happen. The FIA also need to ask for numbers sooner in the season. We can't be getting to what we've got four races left this season. We can't be talking about this in October when the last season ended at the end of what, November, the start of December. That's too far as well. We need to maybe at latest summer break at the latest. And I think a series of these changes allow for clarity. It allows for action to be taken at least close enough to the season that we were in. It's still relevant. And I think it allows

as well for fans watching to know exactly what they're getting themselves into when the team they support or the team they detest entirely, which you might do at home, have broken some rules. And you could be clear and concise on what those punishments are going to be because some of you out there, and actually I don't think it's probably any of our listeners because you're all very nice, but some of you out there on the internet, you know, wind it in. You're being horrible. And I don't want to hear any more of it. Mind your neck in. Why? Why are you neck in? You're like a petulant child and you need to grow up. But if the FIA were more clear and everything was decided quickly to the point, all in one go,

you would eliminate so much of this negativity very, very quickly. So yeah, a number of changes need to happen. For the sake of the sport, it cannot be behind closed doors and it cannot be just a financial penalty. I don't think it will ever get the message across to anyone that wants to break the cost cap. That's what I think they need to do. Harry, I appreciate the bulk of your ire has already gone towards the FIA on this. but do you cut them any slack at all based on this being a very recently introduced concept or do you think they just need to get their act together?

Yeah, look, yeah, I have been harsh on them and it is the, this is year, well, but this, what we're talking about is year one of these rules. So, so they're bound to be teething problems, but just, although we don't make the rules for F1, obviously, but it just seems a bit of an obvious one to not have. have something quite so ambiguous, as Sam's already mentioned, there's minor and major. Because, because like I said, I'm not that mad at Red Bull for doing what they've done, because it is ambiguous and F1 teams always push the boundaries,

no matter if it's technical, financial, whatever, catering. Don't play that race team. They tried. They always are, not catering. Go on, Camui. Oh, shawls. Anyway, hang on. Oh, God. Get the rifle ready.

Yeah. Yeah, so I'll cut them some slack, but there definitely needs to be some clarification on if you go over by this amount, this is a penalty. If you go over by this amount, this is a penalty. And I think that will cut out any team trying to push the boundary because if they know, you know, we don't know how much Red Bull have gone over,

as we've already mentioned, but however much they've gone over, they've obviously thought about this and thought, well, we think we know what the penalty will be for this. So we can get away with it. And that shouldn't be the case. It should be clear cut. So, yeah, a few things to clear up.

We shouldn't be talking, as Sam says, we shouldn't be talking about it almost a year later. That seems far too long to be doing this. and especially if there are. Imagine if they're, I know, Ben says he would like hit, well,

he feels that they should be stripped to both championships. Imagine if this was a major, a fan is dripping. Big fan over it. Imagine if this was a major breach. And we, you know,

we actually had, you know, two team and driver stripped of their championship points, etc. At this point in the, in the next season, I think the,

I'd have to delete Twitter. I don't think I can bear it. So, yeah, there just needs to be some clarity and needs to be some decisiveness and more speed from the FIA, which, you know, it's uncommon for them. They're never indecisive and slow. Oh, wait.

How odd. Maybe they should just treat it like it's a Shal LaClair penalty and they can get everything down to five seconds. Just treat life like it's a Shalda Clare penalty. You've got to. the blueprint, work with it, FIA. Yeah, I think, I won't spend too much time on this because you've basically said exactly what I think in terms of what the FIA need to do. Clear a penalty structure. You know, don't throw around eight different things that it could be. If you overspend,

this is the penalty, whether that's a percentage of points loss, like a structure. That way, fine, whatever it is, just be clear about it. So we know that we don't. We don't. even need the FIA to come out and say what the punishment is because we already know what it's going to be based on them overspending. So that's number one. And number two, I think they just need to be more communicative within between the teams. Like they need to, maybe it's a quarterly thing where there is a, you know, there's an update from the teams to the FIA. This is where we're at within the budget as of this moment. Our projections say by the end of the year will still be in the budget cap. If they come with the projections that they might not be,

then they've got time to work that out before the end of the season. And there's no excuse for any teams to turn around. This was a shock. You know, costs increased. We didn't expect that. There'd be no excuse for anything like that. So better regulation by the FIA and a more clear penalty structure. Those two things by themselves, I think we'll go a long way.

Should we listen to what some of the Discord think? Because in many respects, they're probably more intelligent than us. and the FIA, so yeah. In fact, I mean, the Discord might be the deciding vote on this. Maybe we're actually doing this right now. Let's see what Judge Beef has to say.

Booth. Hello, Beef has had an absolute mayor this morning. The cat didn't come home before I needed to leave. Is she dying? It was bad, I missed my doctor's appointment. Anyway, punishment for Red Bull. They should make them listen to the F-1, theme two for 24 hours

straight. Okay, bye. The flute version. Yes, obviously. Not the real version, the flute version. Cheers, beef. Hope the cat come time. Yeah, yeah. The cat didn't come home.

Needed to leave. Let's go to Chrissy T. Hey, lads, Chrisie T here. I'm going to try and keep it from 30 seconds for you. I think the FIA should take. away the constructors championship points for a red ball for the 2021 season, which would obviously lead them in last place, obviously resulting in massive loss of prize money and also reduce wind tunnel times for them. Really feel like if the FI want the cost cat to be taken seriously,

then the punishment needs to be serious as well. And on a side, side note to that, I also feel like if we're going to have the cost cat, we need to release the details earlier because I think doing it at the end of the following season seems a little bit silly to me. Cheers, lads. Very interesting. Very interesting and I appreciate the effort and the submission Chrissy T, but you said you'd try and keep it inside 30 seconds. That was 31 seconds. What are you playing at? Do you know, it's ironic. If he said, I'll try and keep it with him. If he didn't say that 30 second line, he would have been inside 30 seconds. I'm just going to disqualify the last second of that. Just glad Chrissy T's alive after his raw breakfast on Sunday. That's true. He ate at all

raw foods. Come on. Cut the guy some slack. Thank you very much for the submission. It's raw. Let's go to N1K. Yo, what up, guys. N1K here, long time listener, first time cost cap punisher. Special hello to Sammy Biscuits.

I think the punishment for Red Bull breaking the cost cap should be that Helmut Marco, Christian Horner, Max Rastappen, and Sergio Perez must erect a Mount Rushamore on turn 10 of Jeddah. That includes the likenesses of Michael Massey,

Jean Todd, Bernie Eccleston, and Mr. Chonkey himself. Why see you there? See you, boys. What's one public Montoya got to do with this? Oh, Mr. Chunky's face will take up most of

Jeddah turned 10, Matt Lachman. He'd be 90% of it while the other three would just be like slightly dotting around him. Put some respect on Montoya's name. You have some wotset dusk around this carve mouth. Let's go to Mystic Ryeye.

Hello, Lid Breakers. This is Mystic Rai Guy. Ben Sam and Harry. Thank you for the new nickname. I'm going to roll with it for a little while. I feel like Red Bull should feel a certain amount of financial pain from this. So I think what's fitting is that they should have whatever penalty it is applied to this year's cost cap.

So it has like a knock on effect. What I think is actually going to happen is something similar to what the FIA did with Ferrari in 2019, where they just kind of just say a deal has been reached. and then nothing else has said about it. Anyways, I love what you guys do. Keep on, keep on, keep it on. Discord, join the Patreon. It's worth it.

Bye. That plug that Miskit Rai guy does is Billy Hesmov. Doing God's work. Good, good. Good, good. Oh, you've got a lot to say to that, Harry. Great, great input. Great point.

Love that. Well, I've got nothing to say because Billy's smooth is a great, great phrase. It is. and no one should say anything different. You tried so long, got to giggle the whole time you've been saying that. Let's go to Northam, Texas. Hey guys, North from Texas here. Figure it I'd weigh in on all this hullabaloo that's going around with Red Bull and the FIA.

So I would say the punishment for Red Bull needs to be you lose three constructors' championship points. And if they're good enough, they'll win them back by the. the end of the season. But yet again, this just proves that the FIA will find a way to FIA-fi-fi this. So anyway, keep doing what y'all are doing. Keep breaking late. Listen to you all later. Bye.

Cheers, Gould. Just the three seems severe, but we'll see what they do with it. I sure hope Maxis and staff again. Get a ninth place at the fastest lap in order to get that back. Three's a tough one, but we'll see how it plays out for them. Well, I mean, calm down, Norm. Thank you. Easy, son.

Hullabaloo also. What a word. The romantic duck is back, everyone. Hey there, guys, gals, non-binary pals. This is the romantic duck coming to you from the best place on earth to survive a water war. Why? I think the FAA should just kneecap Red Bull's development budget for the next couple years. It's the best way to show that they're serious about this cost cap thing,

and it's the best way to make sure that they lose any benefit they might have gained from their overspense. So yeah, if we ever have a water war, Mad Max kind of situation, come to Michigan. We got 20% of the world's fresh water in the Great Lakes. What a stuff. I mean, you learn something new. I feel like he's just wanting to tell someone that all day and he's going, forget the punishment. I'm getting that in there to someone today. He's just learned that fact.

He's somewhere, someone's told him that fact and he goes, I've got to pass that information on. And then we've done a Discord at everyone. And that's how we're here. it's too valuable to withhold he's going to have to share it with the world our next submission has had multiple names in our discord so I'm not quite sure which one to go with right now

but one of them at least has been Baku is overrated so let's go with that Red Bull should get disqualified from both championships for breaking the budget gap and I don't understand what the point of a 5% tolerance limit is because technically you could spend 7.4 million extra

and get away with light weight penalties and that 7.4 million makes a huge difference in who could or couldn't win the championship and there are no tolerance limits in technical regulations like the fuel sample and your car being underweight so why is this any different it makes some very good points i'm with the man i'm with the man um let's go to great name this one dribbling shittaki Yeah. The punishment's got to fit the crime, right? Reduce the points from 2021, both for the constructor and the drivers by the same percentage they breach the budget.

I feel like dribbling Shatake could be. He's got the voice of like a crime detective show, you know, and I feel like, I'm just sitting in like a, yeah, like a smoky cafe while he's like discussing what happened at the crime scene, you know, make the punishment fit the crime, you know? And I'm like, yes. Yes, scribbling. I'm with you. Detective Chitake. SDS.

We've got time for just a couple more. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go to bore it. BORIT. Already, this is Bored calling you from not even 6 o'clock in the morning in Western North Carolina. So I just want to say that this is the FIA's fault. This is a sport.

sport, if you're not cheating, you're not trying. And they didn't say what the penalty was going to be. And then they're surprised when Red Bull pressed their luck. I think everybody else should be fine for being cowards. That's just my opinion. Love the podcast. You'll have a good rest of your day. Goodbye.

Thanks, sport. Cheers, sport. Lastly, let's go to Vig and Spiker. Hey, gents. Vig and Spiker from Latifiland. On the Red Bull cost cap punishment, honestly, if the

cost cap's going to work, it's got to be quick, it's got to be harsh, it's got to be severe, it's got to be everything it won't be, it's got to be disqualification from the Constructors Championship. Just the Constructors, Max can keep his title, but it's got to be a severe punishment or the cost cap means nothing.

It doesn't matter if it's if it's a $5 million dollars or just one dollar as Sam used to say in the late breaking ads it's got to be harsh and it's got to be quick and it's got to be severe good one dollar there's probably a whole portion of our listenership who've never heard that one dollar ad and you and as a guy read that we did you have to move to the US to find out so you all get a VPN which we haven't hang a sponsorship for either but hey um I was just thinking a lot of people have said, you know, just the constructors, just the constructors.

But obviously, you chose both. Do you think if they did just the constructors, it essentially would make the Stapwings Championship wing hollow and pointless anyway because everyone would constantly go, well, the car got disqualified for breaking all the rules anyway? Do you think it would immediately be a bit of a what's the point you may as well have done both? Yeah, that's part of the reason I chose that is that I think it's just an official way of invalidating it rather than an unofficial way, which is very difficult to search.

And an unofficial. An unofficial way. Yeah. We're going to leave Costco up there. That's our verdict on it. It's going to sit somewhere in the ether forever. Come at us if you want. We might care.

We might not. I don't know. Not us tweet Ben. Yeah, tweet me. Harry, was that your microphone if it just went off? Yes. All right.

I've been trying to keep pressing mute on and off because, because my lovely, lovely girlfriend has just got home and she's heating up her tea. And I have texts in the same place because you'd be quiet. But the microwave, I can't text the microwave. It makes as loud a noise.

It's very true. It's a very true. Can't put that microwave down. So he's going to beep. If he wants to beep, or the food's ready, he's going to bloody beep. Can you stop having appliances in your home

that make more noise than you do on the podcast? This is true. Imagine if it was in the same room with me. Blare your headphones. He's got said a word. She literally is a living thing. Well, on the sensational bombshell that Harry cannot text his microwave, we're going to go to a short break.

We'll be back to discuss Gasly to Alpine right after this. So a bit of a bit of movement in terms of driver seats for 2023. This one's been rumoured for a little while, but was confirmed on the Japanese Grand Prix weekend. We're still catching up with news there's so much going on. Gasly to Alpine. At one point there seemed to be about 12 drivers in the running for the empty Alpine seat vacated by Fernando Alonzo.

And it turns out it would be Pierre Gasley moving from Alphiari to fill that seat on what is a multi-year deal. Sam, was this a good move for Gasly? And was this a good move for Alpine? Gassley boy! Honestly, my sausages are firmly out for Gassie boy right now. I'm very, very pleased for my old Ghazly boy. Get in there. He's got away from that scuping alpha towering seat,

which makes no sense for anyone that is in. The kid's talented. The king is so rapido. He deserves to almost lead a team that is not part of this driver development program where he's just sitting in this voyage that makes no sense. thanks for him. Alpine are, obviously, Renault, technically, if you didn't know, folks, Alping is owned by Renault. It's a different car brand, but Renault is the family brand.

And it allows him to be part of this essential sporting powerhouse. You know, there are long connections there. They're invested in the sport. They've got their own power unit. And it's two French drivers out, this French team, which F1 teams love to do. I'm not entirely sure why, because Formula One isn't really like a nation-specific sport. It's not like the UK versus France,

something like that. But they do love to do it. And I guess it kind of works. I think this is fantastic for Alpine. He's got enough years left in his career where he could settle in, he can develop, and he could put his stamp on Alpine. And I'm hoping they could give him a car where he can maybe show off what he was unable to do first time around in Red Bull. For Alpine's sake, I think this is the best results out of a bloody, awful situation that they are brought entirely on themselves. They managed to drop the ball, not once, but twice. You didn't re-sign a two-time world champ that is still so hungry and outperforming and maybe you should have some of Red Bulls caterer, because he's that hungry, and, you know,

and he's thriving and now Aston Martin picked him up. And then you think, right, immediate backup option. Probably the best looked at young talent since the likes of, you know, Norris and Russell came through the ranks. And you absolutely threw that in the bin. you gave it to your closest competitor. So they're left with all these options that don't really make sense

that are all a bit out in the air that either aren't fully developed or they're just grasping at straws. Gassley is a well-developed driver. He's had plenty of years to learn the sport. And he's going to come in and be quick and it's going to be positive for the team. And I think that actually,

this is a really, really strong lineup that they're going to have now. Ockong is one of the most underrated drivers on the grid. I don't think he's a powerhouse of the sport. but he's a very consistent driver. He's getting the job done week in, week in week out. And Gassley as well.

If you look at last season's form, he was phenomenal. And I hope that this gives him that motivational kick that he maybe is lacked this season by having to sit in that alpha towering seat again. The person that I feel very,

very sorry for is Hall of Fame of Yuki Senoda because he's losing his best friends. But for those few parties, very pleased, very happy for them. What do you think, Harry? Good move for both parties on this one.

I mean, are your sausages out for Gassley, or are you just pleased to see me? Oh, my word. Oh, hello there. Cancel this podcast. My sausages are out and I'm pleased to see you. Well, by me. Someone just sue us and end it. They've got your money for them to claim.

They want to cancel his own podcast. Yeah, look, for Peter Gassley, this is a beautiful move. It's a great move and he was facing the prospect of yet another year at Alvatari which is which is Ian is trying to say hello

anyway yeah he's facing the prospect of another year at Alfatari which was never going to leave to a red bull seat and you know all he was doing now was waiting around to go somewhere else

so this is a great move for Pierre Gasley I'm sure he doesn't mind that he is I mean not even sloppy seconds he's untasted thirsts. It was not their immediate choice for Alpine and he's kind of had, you know, he stood a good choice for Alpine,

but it was never their first choice and it wasn't even their second choice. So, but, you know, I'm sure he's, he's not going to be too fuss about that. I think he'll just be glad to be out of the Alvatari team, not that they've treated them badly at Alphatari, but it was sort of going nowhere for him there. So, yeah, great move for Gassley.

For Alpine, I, you know, I still think I would have gone for Daniel Ocardo there. Took a punt on that because Gassley was still going to be around in a year's time. But, you know, they've decided not to go for that. It looks good. It's an all-French lineup for their French team. Good marketing opportunities there. Hopefully, Ocon and Gassi don't still hate each other as much they used to. And they won't run each other off the road every race.

Good banter if they do. But, yeah, you know, it is still. they've sort of salvaged what was a pretty bad situation. And Alcon Ghazdi lineup next year is all right. It could be better, but it's not a bad one for them to go forward with. So I didn't, because it happened whilst I was asleep. Is it a multi-year deal? Is it a single-year deal?

Multi-year-year-old. Multi-21, sir. Yeah. Blimey. That's an old school reference. Yeah, so good move for Gazley. Alpine, you've done all right to salvage a pretty bad situation. And yeah, like Sam said, just sorry for Hul of Famer, Yuki Sanoda,

who's lost his best mate, but he'll be fine. I'm sure it would be fine. Hello, Ian. You're right. What are you doing? Ian, mate, come on. Disrupting me. For Gazley, fantastic move, obviously. He wasn't getting back in that Red Bull anytime soon, unless something

let's face it, something unthinkable happened to the top two guys in Red Bull. That wasn't happening. So it's good that he's left Alfa Tauri. He's in somewhere that he can progress. So great for him. In terms of the move itself, I don't love it. And you know, you could look at the situation and say maybe it was the best possible deal that they could get, given the drivers that are available.

But I agree with you, Harry, that if Daniel Ricardo was on the table, I would rather have gone in his direction. And I think with Gasly, you have to admit, first of all, that there is some sort of risk because whilst we all agree that Gasly is in a better spot now than he was in 2019 when he was in the Red Bull, there is the risk that the last time he was in a top car, he didn't do very well,

and he did far worse than what Ricardo did in the same car as well. And ultimately, I don't actually think it's about what Gasly does or doesn't bring. It's about what Gazley doesn't bring in comparison to what Ocon has. So if you look at the options that Alpine did have and might have had, Alonzo, two-time world champ, bought experience, that's something that Ocon doesn't bring. Piahtri, potentially, as Sam said, the most sought-after rookie in three or four years. That is something that Gazley doesn't have the potential to achieve, quite frankly. even if you look at Ricardo, Ricardo performed very well in a red ball

and matched Max Verstappen, blow for both for about three years. That's very impressive, something Gazzley couldn't do. Again, it's something that Gassley doesn't bring. I mean, even, I can't even remember if it's Alpine or one of the drivers themselves put out of post, just looking at the similarities between Ocon and Gassley. They were born in the same year. They were born in the same part of France. As far as I'm concerned, yes, they're both very consistent talents,

Ocon's already there, and I don't think Gassley provides anything that Ocon doesn't bring to the team already. I think it's a good move to consolidate where you are, because I think it's a very consistent, a very consistent duo that they will have next year, and indeed the year after, because Ocon's deal doesn't run out until 2024. So they're essentially locked into those two for two years. But in terms of moving themselves up the grid and really pushing the envelope and trying to be at the top couple of teams. I don't love the move, to be very honest.

I actually really disagree with that point. I think that Danny Ricardo shows inconsistency, I think is regularly showing out two teams that it either takes him time to warm up and he might never warm up at all. These guys are both race winners, you know, which is they're the only, they're one of three teams on the grid

where both drivers are race winners. You know, Red Bull, Ferrari and now Alpine, would have that. I don't care. That's one each. Technically, the race winners. I'm scraping. I just think that consistency is what they do need. Yeah, because I'm grasping.

I think consistent is what they do need, especially after maybe the high-tempo flare that Alonso maybe brings on and off the track, having someone to ground you and to help you guide you up. Because let's face it, Alonso has not really brought them any closer to the top. than where they were when he started, they were pretty much in the same spot.

So they were fighting with McLaren when he joined and they're still fighting with McLaren now. So who knows? Maybe a safe pair of hands that can apply some of that Red Bull magic because Gassie's going to know exactly all about it might help them. I think that this is no better or no worse

than signing Daniel Ricardo personally. Are you worried from the Gassley-Ockon beef perspective, Sam, at all? do you know why they have beef with each other? Didn't he nick is someone next one's someone's girlfriend? Ocon Nick's Pierre Gassie's girlfriend when they were very young teenagers, right? I think they were like 15 years old,

which is firstly hilarious. Secondly. Yeah, you need to, it's over a decade at this point. Anyway, I think from the posts that Ockon put out, I think they've moved on. I think they've asked, I think Alping have said to them,

basically can you get on with this? Do you want to sit down and have a chat? And I think O'Kong's post that he put out about Gadsden joining the team was actually very sweet, very nice, and I think it was almost a bit of an olive branch of, right, that's it. We've had our grudge. We've been silly about it with each other.

We won't both want to be successful. We'll move on. I do not think this will be a problem until the first time they crash into each other. Then I think the whole of Alpine will explode. But for now, I don't think it's problem. So they crash into each other. Never have a whole new beef.

you know, Gassi will keep stealing things from Ocon to be like, well, remember that one time. I'm getting you back. I... Ocon doesn't get on with any teammate. And to be honest, it didn't get on with Perez.

And when I say doesn't get on, maybe they do off track. But on track, O'Con treats his teammate almost worse than he treats any other driver. What's that about? I have no idea. As a team boss, I would pop. Because every time they're getting near each other

on the circuit, Ockin just tries to run whoever it is off the road. It seems like, and I'm exaggerating, obviously. But we've seen it with Perez. We've seen it with Alonzo. And I think if Ockon was dealing with even Alonzo from 12 years ago, Alonso would have break tested in and had an off the road about three times by now. But Alonso's grown up slightly.

He's still a menace. We haven't spoken about him cutting the chican at Suzuki. But anyway. Just call him Dennis. Yeah. Alonzo, yeah, Dennis the Menace.

So, yeah, and I think that's going to cause issues. I think Ocon, I just think, though, I'd run into each other

because Ocon is tough on his teammates when it comes to the wheel to a racing. And if they're on the same pace, they're going to be on the same bits of racetrack. And I think they're just going to have a few biffs. I won't,

you know what, I'm going to call it. Ghazlia, Ghazley, or leave, end of 20, in three. They've had enough.

Remember that. Remember that, folks. Someone write it down. Yeah. I've got to have a dowry. Yeah. You imagine that. Please, Howard.

Can I come back? Let me in. I'm not concerned at all, really, from a Gassley and Ockon standpoint. Look, if you can't resolve your 11-year differences with this in mind, you are racing. In Formula One, for millions and millions of in terms of salary, in terms of success,

you're representing a massive brand. If you can't put your difference aside for that, then you deserve everything that comes your way, as far as I'm concerned. Surely you can get over it for the sake of a Formula One World Championship. Like, if there was a Twix bar on the line, fair enough, hold your grudge because, you know, what does it matter? but there's championships at stake here, they'll get over it. I won't stand for Twix Flander, thank you.

They're highly valued. Hey, I like a Twix. I think underrated. Would you go for a two finger or like a little like Pat Lunch at the single finger? Two finger twigs, mate. It's got to be a two fingering it. What's your favourite chocolate biscuit guys? What, as a biscuit or like chocolate bar?

As in like a, like a, like a, because Twix is kind of biscuity chocolate, you know what I mean? Like a kick. Yeah, but I class Twix as a chocolate. chocolate bar. Yeah, so don't want. But like, but like, are we going Bourbons here, or are we going like, you know, like, Kind of Buenos.

Like, kind of Buenos. Because, well, kind of Buenos. All a, uh, all a Terry's chocolate orange. Give me a boost. Of course. Love me a boost. Of course he wants a boost.

Harry, any preferences? Um, I don't know. I don't really mind. Like Kit Kat, you know? um four finger or a chunky I often take a break I don't mind

take a break since I was 14 10 years old are you serious gas he was angry so you should take a break no I meant I meant the slogan

I meant the slogan not the actual have a break have a break not the take a break biscuit do we think people are still listening

no no they've all so what you want okay well we'll have one more break and then we'll come back to play F1 higher or lower

let's take a breath let's have a tex it was a segue come on it was a beautiful segue as well F1 higher or lower folks let's go F1 higher

is F1 lower is that faster is Harry slower F1 higher F1 No one F1

F1 Higher It's the little voice crack at the top I love it Oh man Go to love it F1 higher or lower

So Harry and Sam will go up against each other here They'll take it in turns where I'll give them some sort of question where the answer

is a number They have to guess Either higher Or Sorry, they have to make a guess. The other person, if they don't get it spot on, has to guess higher or lower. If they're right, they get a point. If they're wrong, they don't get a point. And the original guessee gets the point instead. So six overall on this one. Sam, if you go first on this one,

what number would you like? Number one. Number one. This one's all right. Oh, good. 2014. The first year, well, the first year, since Mercedes return that they won the Constructors Championship. How many collective points did Rosberg and Hamilton get in 2014? Oh, I mean, you know,

I don't know, mate. I mean, that's the point of the game. But I'm going to say, they were pretty dominant. That was a pretty strong year for Mercedes. I'm going to go 427. 427. or lower, Harry? I'll go higher.

It was a very, very dominant year for Mercedes. Harry is right on this one. 701 points, Mercedes. Oh my God! They had double points as well at the end, didn't they? They did. Oh. When Abu Dhabi was a controversy, eh?

Hey. Oh, it's only time. It's having been remotely thrilling to talk about. That's a ridiculous number of points. To be fair, I went under when I thought of this question. When you played it on your own, like a loser. I genuinely do. I think, what would I actually guess on this if I was asked the question?

And I'm usually quite wrong. Okay, like you sat there, like with your notebook pad. That's a step too far. I don't get my note. Five hundred and three turns the page. Oh, I was wrong. That's not quite how it goes. better luck next time beg

I do say that to myself though yeah tapping himself on the back you'll get him next time number two three four five or six Harry what do you want number two please

go in in order got to love it all right this is as of the Japanese GP so if you're listening to this later in time the stat isn't going to be correct possibly

How many drivers on the 2022 grid have had a top five result this season? Is he having a laugh? Is he having a laugh? I am never having a laugh. Ten. Ten is not correct. So Sam, do you want to go higher or lower than that guess? Oh, rag, oh rag, oh rag, all right, all right.

A bit of outcaste for you. Right, so both, obviously, both Ferraris, both Red Bulls, both Mesaig. Norris Alonso O'Con poo bums and bums great point

great point I think it is higher than 10 you would be right in saying it is higher it's actually 13 drivers on the grid of the top 5 so you're right in saying both

Mercedes, both Ferraris, both Red Bulls, both Alpins, both McLaren's. Bottas had a top five earlier in the year, so has Gazley, and Magnuson at the first race of the year as well, so 13 overall. Has Botts lost? What was he doing up there? What do you mean? That's why he's trying to all the next time. The first like five races when Alfa Romeo were good.

Oh yeah. They were, weren't they? I actually forgot. It's fair. All right. So, one all. Back to you, Sam. Three, four, five or six? Which one do you want? I'll have number three, please, Ben.

Go in an order. Love it. You probably won't like this one. That's good. I'll just guess anyway, like I always do. Okay, how many Formula One Drivers' Championships have been won by South American drivers? Oh, God.

And I got to include that idiot, that one that was really horrible? Yes. Because he is still South American. That doesn't change. He's just as idiotic South American. One of the worst ones. Okay. All right.

All right. All right. All right. All right. Okay. Is it though? No, it's not. Ever.

I'm going to go with 21. 21 is. not correct. Shocker. Yeah, it's a real surprise that. Harry, higher or lower? Shocked. Oh, lower.

Lower is correct on that one. It's actually, I've just been boring here. I've just used the same answer as the last question. It's still 13. Every answer is 13. But as far as I'm aware, unless I'm missing something, it's only by four drivers, which are Fangio 1-5,

Senna and P. for Tepaldi's with two. That was me, doubting myself. There's never been a one-time champion from South America. No, I literally had those four drivers. I had that number and I went, I'm definitely missing some because it's me. So I just added a number wrong.

Good. Harry, what number do you want now? Number four, please. Wow, number four. I'm glad you've got this one, though, actually, because it's your favourite, the one and only. No Jaquille O'Neil, Jacques Villeneuve

How many races Did he do in F1? Too many That's not an answer They're so horrible He did How many years to do Oh God

I need to do some maths One, two, three Four, five Six You're going one at a time because this might be a while. One race, two rows. He did.

He did. Oh, God, I don't know. Plank any numbers, my... 136. That's not correct. Sam, higher or lower? F1, lower. Please.

Harry takes the point on this one. It's not lower than 136. It is higher. You just need to switch the numbers around, mate. 163. Oh, man. Most, you still get a point. Does it again?

Jacques Vilnave just got you a point, Harry. Surely your grudge is over. No. No, don't care. You remember how we talked about that guys for the Ocon grudge that went on for 11 years? This will be longer.

Yours can't even longer. Yeah, because Jack Wiener has stole my girlfriend. Sorry, Lauren. Wow. Give Lauren the update, I guess. All right, back to you, Sam, with, I mean, you need both of these to force a tie here. Five or six? I'm used to losing at this point.

I'll go for five, please, Ben. All right. What have I done here? I thought I'd just treat you for once. Okay. Treat mercy. How many circuits, and there's a, listen to the terminology in this one, how many circuits have hosted a race? a race in the United States.

So I'm not looking for United States Grand Prix circuits. I'm looking for how many circuits have hosted a Grand Prix that are in the United States. So just tracks in America that are being a Formula One race? Yes, because they used to be

the West Grand Prix and others. Yeah, it's all part the same country, in it? It is. Right. I'm going to go with eight it's not eight

Harry higher or lower higher it is indeed higher not that much more higher but 11

well it's all over for me folks just for fun Harry with a 4-1 lead what number do you want ask him the question can number six please yeah you can have number six

okay yay that's my favourite joke my favourite joke How many points did Mike Hawthorne score in the 1954 season? Oh, come on. 23. 23 is not right.

No. No, Sam, higher or lower. Oh, I'm going to go with lower. It's not lower. It's higher. That was a pretty good guess. I'll give you that because it's actually. 24 and 914ths.

What? Right, get the raffle started, begs off. How could you have 914th of a point? This is when they gave one point for fastest lap, but they weren't able to record times to the same sort of nth degree that they do nowadays. So I think it just went down to like 10th, so like a 150.1.

And it didn't go any more precise than that. And something like seven drivers or something all got the same. It might be the British GP. So if you look at the standings for the 1954 season, you've just got people with like one seventh of a point and nine-fourteenths of a point in the case of Hawthorne. It's fantastic.

Oh, that is absolutely ridiculous. Never been simple. We're still over-convicating things now, and it's never, maybe it's never going to change. I mean, the sun rises in the east. Ben, sprint races and Sam gets 50-50s wrong. I mean, these things will never change. It's F1 higher, is F1 lower, is sad faster, is Harry slower, F1 higher, F1 lower.

F1. I mean, put a dunk on that, though, on it, absolute banger, it slaps. Luke, don't call that. Put a banging dunk on it. What was our question of the week? Our question of the week was, if we were to have a late-breaking NFL team, what would it be called?

We put this out on Twitter and Instagram. We do these every week, so get involved in whatever next week's one is. But in terms of this week, Sam, any highlights, any good answers that you saw? Yeah, absolutely. We discussed this actually before we came on air,

but absolutely love the Huggersfield Squirrels from Merkton Real Life because, obviously, I've never heard something more relevant to us, to the podcast, to NFL, but the Huggersfield Squirrels is absolutely hilarious. There was another one is that, the Greasy's Sosikas, absolutely love that as well. And, of course, one to me, I know Harry's got a favourite because you're only commenting, so I won't steal that from here, but the one from me that's absolute favorite is the 50-50s. So I think that also sounds like a great bang.

And if Sam was the head coach, you'd end up with a record of 0 to 17, which sounds very much like me. So, yeah, they're my favourites. Does one, someone has said, or the same person this is Matt, Matt Hector, the LB Gammons or fighting Sam Sages. Why would we be called that? So there are a few, not any NFL teams, but there are a few American football teams in, like, in college and like,

are the fighting some things. Ah. That's probably where that's fun. Good. Good NFL. Can I also, before we move forward, I'm so, I, obviously, I didn't shout out all the names for that. And we got told off for that last time. So Fred the Red was the 50-50s.

But also I just want to shout out Ruthie, who's at on Twitter is at Gazley Boy. I feel like that deserves a special mention. So well done to you, Ruthie. At Gazley Boy is a great at on Twitter. That's huge. Yeah, my A couple more on Twitter Ian who said the speeding pigeons

Which again Did you? Did you say speaking of pigeons You clever girl Not not Ian the cat But my ultimate favorite is from Barney Who said the Cornish pasties Which I'm sold

Because I love a Cornish pasty We do love a Cornish pasty All three of us would develop on Ben doesn't like a Cornish pasty Does he? I'm getting a force one in his mouth That's a bit weird It's not good content that

Why don't you like Paskies? Why does it matter? Because my hate for you grows every day, that's why. All the more reason to keep hating than that. What are you, Ben? Got a favourite? There's two that caught my eye that you haven't already mentioned. This one was a difficult username.

So, NY2A, Z, T, C, O, something. thing. I also haven't written this down very well. The LB. Spagg bowls. Love that one. Or if Bing was saying it, the LB. Spagg bowls. Exactly. And also from the dumb electrician who said the late breaking boilers, which is a fun play on words there.

And fun fact, and not quite NFL, but there is a college football team, the University of Purdue, which is the Purdue boiler makers. So maybe... I did you know, other fun fact,

in English football, West Bromichalbians' mascot is a boiler. Very true. The Westbrob boiler. We're fitting well. There are lots of good ones here. Davy Snake said the

the Djibui Raiders. Oh, I like that. The Raiders of Boobriaders. That's so good. Oh, that's good. Someone called us just, I think it was the LB Yehars, which I also absolutely love.

Yeah, and then my final one, let me go from Colt Knees, I think, on Instagram, the Bean Bay sausage packers, which is some. That's clever. That's clever. The Big Bay sausage packers. Oh, I love that. Thanks very much for all those submissions. It gives us a good laugh, at least.

And we'll post some other incredibly random question next time out. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind, for this episode at least, getting us out of here. I'm so excited to sign a contract with the Bean Bay sausage packers because who wouldn't be? Folks, thanks for tuning in. Just a reminder, we are going to be getting an episode live this Sunday on the non-race weekend. We've got a schedule. We're going to sit down and do it for you now, essentially.

So make sure we're shooting, even though it isn't a race weekend, we will be having an episode out. Make sure you follow the socials at El Breaking on Twitter, the late breaking F1 podcast on Instagram and on TikTok. because when the kids come knocking, we go to TikTok. We do have merchandise. So if you want to buy some with the late-breaking logo, on be it a hoodie, a mug, a sticker, whatever you fancy,

the links in the description. And we have Patreon. And, you know, there are some absolutely lovely people on Patreon that support us very, very nicely. If you'd like to one of those people, get some extra, extra benefits like ag-free podcasts, discount on merchandise, and an extra topic every single month.

Then check it out. It's not a lot of money, but we understand that everyone can afford it. But to those that already do, thank you so much it massively secourses. In the meantime,

I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been a bean-based sausage packer. And remember, keep breaking late. Take a break. Have a Kit Kat.

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