The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Should Williams fire Latifi and hire Piastri?

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

No race this weekend, but the LB boys are back with some more F1 chat and silliness. This week they discuss whether Williams should hire Oscar Piastri, debate whether Gasly staying at Alpha Tauri is a good move, and play F1: Back and Forth... JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! EMAIL us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. On today's episode, it's Transfer Talk. We're talking about the possibility that Williams will pick up the option on Oscar Piastri on loan from Alpine next season. Is that, or would that be a good move for Piastri and indeed both teams?

Pierre Gasly, definitely in his seat until the end of 2023 at Alfa Tauri. Again, a discussion there as to whether it's good for Ghazley and indeed the team. And who will take P4, McLaren or Alpine? That's all to come on today's episode. On what I'm hoping will be a slightly more cordial episode, a nice friendly episode because it got ugly. Me and Sam, front pages and newspapers all up and down the country here. Infamous bust up between the two of us.

Are you calm? I feel I've calmed down, son. I mean, they're treating us, the public, the media, treating us like two old-time crime bosses in New York or something, right? Like we were going out like gang wars and the discord were divided and many casualties. Harry's there crying in the corner covered in booze and blood. You know, it was a real wall scene here, but, yeah, I've mellowed, I've punched a few walls and shouting at a few sausages, and I'm very much calm indeed.

Drank few stella's. It's lovely to be it. Thanks for a talk. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Is it silly-season already? Are we calling it silly season? Is it begun? Is it officially silly season? So silly-seasoning, I think it sounds like a real word? Sure, why not? Could I write, tonight, I don't want any swearing out of the pair of you, because we don't often and I have to get the bleep button out. But I did last week, last week Sunday.

This was only two days ago, folks, since we did this last episode. And it's, you know, it's not on a day when it's a afternoon race. It's a bloody evening race. So it's late enough. Yeah, sorry, mate. Sat in bed editing. And then I go, oh, these absolute morons have both done a swear.

And I didn't want to put the explicitly on it to ruin our clean rating of podcast. So don't do it again. Yes, boss. Sorry. He started it. Well, I'm finishing it. Also, obviously, Ben, your lovely, very warm intro, which are even warmer in the summertime.

You say, Ben, Sam and Harry, any way we can maybe put in the infamous jingle of the intro? Still reeling from it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, on our Canada. you might well have heard a submission folks that was from Liv Laf Latifie from the Discord. It was utterly wonderful. So if you haven't listened to that, I'd recommend going back to our Canada review just to search out that 30 second clip, although the rest of it was all right as well, if you want to listen to that too. We've got plenty to talk about. The one thing I didn't mention

is we've got F1 back and forth on tonight as well. So you've got that to look forward to, ladies and gents. But we'll start with Williams and Oscar Piastri. So this is a rumor that is picking up a bit of pace now. Oscar Piastri, we know, was the 2021 Formula 2 champion, but no seat for him on the 2022 grid. So the question is, how does he get onto the F1 grid? It doesn't look as if there's a seat available at Alpine. And it seems as if the solution that people are coming to is Piastri 2 Williams in place of Nicholas Latifi next season. So it would obviously be a loan deal if that was the case from Alpine. We'll take this one in sort of three chunks because there's three players here really.

There's Williams, Alpine, and indeed Piastri himself. So we'll start with Williams, whether this would be a good move for them as a team. Sam, what do you think? I think this is an exceptional move for Williams. I think Williams could do a lot worse and currently are doing a lot worse with their current driver line up. Obviously, the young man, Piashtri, will be replacing Nicholas Satifi, unless suddenly Alex Islander Albuing is swooped up and stuck.

a Red Ball-based drive. So the chances are will be Al-Bong and Piastri as the teammates if they were to sign him. Now, to make a comparison, folks, between Piastri and Latifi,

let's just say, you've gone to get yourself a nice slice of bread right from the bakery. And you're thinking, you're thinking, this bread is nice, but I actually fancy toast,

not bread. How should I toast it? How should I make it all nice and crispy? Nichol Satifi is like holding an old cigarette lighter under the bread and hoping that it might toast certain bits one bit might be very good, the rest of it's a bit soggy and rubbish

and it doesn't taste great. Piastri is like sticking it in the newest toaster you can find down your whatever grocery store you may go to. I'm not going to add a sponsor in there, but you know, you're picking up there, you plug it in, you take off that lovely wrap, the cling film that makes it all shiny,

and you pop the breading and in two minutes time, beautiful. even crispy, well-rounded, talented toast. That's what Oscar Piascri is. And I think, Williams, we no longer need the money. We've got the budget cap in place, remember? They've obviously got new investors since selling from the original Williams owners. They're not struggling with cash.

Yoss Capital is doing a great job as well with the financial management of the team. And Latifah, yes, brings in money. But currently, driver salaries aren't involved in that cap. So, yeah, he's paying for himself. But Williams have the finances to pick up a driver. They have the ability to run their drivers without two extra costs. So for me, if they want to start moving the way up the field, we've seen what Albaugh was doing, right?

If one car could be there, two cars can be there. Are they missing out on points every single race? Because one of their drivers, Gassar could drive around a minute and a half slower than everyone else over the course of the Grand Prix. I don't know. So for me, this feels like a bit of an o'brain. Latifi's run his course in Formula One, unfortunately. It was nice to have him.

We love him as a person. He's adorable. is delightful. He drove a tank, which was hilarious, but he shouldn't be on the grid anymore. So, yeah, I think Williams could do a lot worse than take on Piaskeri. Harry, from Williams' perspective,

do you think this would be a smart move for 2023? It's a no-brainer for me. I don't know why Williams are holding on. What are you holding on for? Latifie to start winning races? I don't know. Yeah, this seems like a, yeah. an easy, easy win situation for Williams here.

If it's not mid-season, it should definitely be for next year. I don't know how I feel about mid-season driver changes. Sometimes they work out in the case of Vastappen, a Red Bull. Sometimes they don't. So I think maybe they don't need it this year, but I think that it definitely should be their option that they choose for 2023. The TEP has had a good run.

I think he's proving now that it's just, he's not quite at the right level for football. Formula one. And sometimes those downward spires tend to happen in a driver. And I think Latifi's in one of those at the moment where nothing just seems to go right and it just keeps getting worse for him. So yeah, as harsh as it sounds to Latif, I think that's just the way it is. F-1's not a finishing school.

So yeah, I think this is an obvious choice for Williams. Also, side note, related to Williams, I hope they get their Instagram back because that somehow got deleted today as of recording. So social media manager for Williams. I hope you have an okay evening. As three folks at regularly dealing social media and the managing of marketing, that is pain. Pure unadulterated pain for you.

I really hope it's rectified very quickly. It's painful as Latifi's driving. Sometimes. Wow, just to get that last jab in, nicely. That's a little zinger, yeah. Yeah, right. I don't disagree with what you're saying in terms of piastri, because I rate him pretty highly as well,

in that I think he deserves to be on the F1 grid, he deserves to have a chance within the world of F1, winning the F2 Championship at your first attempt should always allow for that. But honestly, I don't know how great a move this would be for Williams, because actually I don't think it matters that much, in that the most obvious comparison point you've got here is George Russell. In many respects, George Russell was Formula 2 champion

at the first time of trying, like Piastri, going into a team that is not the same team as their junior program, if that makes sense. Obviously, George Russell came in at Williams as part of the Mercedes program. Piastri would be doing something similar where he'd be going at at Williams from the Alpine program. But ultimately, it didn't matter how good George Russell was at the team, right? I mean, he did very well. And his performances against Lewis Hamilton this season have proved that it wasn't a false omen. You know, George Russell, we thought was pretty good, but we can couldn't really have much of a comparative point because it was just him against

Robert Kubitser or against Latifi and not really any other teams. He's now going up against the guy who has a very legitimate claim to be the greatest driver of all time and he's beating him. So Russell spent a lot of time at the Williams team and he's clearly a very good driver. And what did it matter? Kubitsa beat him over a season 1-0 because of how bad that car is. point being, Williams are in such a dire situation overall that I don't think it matters too much who's driving the car. And obviously in terms of the budget cap that's already been mentioned, I think the question is, are they maximising that budget? Because if they are maximising that budget, then you take up Piastri over Latifi any day of the week because he's a far better driver.

But if hiring Piastri means that you cannot go up to 100% of the budget cap, I don't think it's worth doing. And I would keep Latifie. Because ultimately, the car is way more important for Williams right now than who their driver lineup is. It's been one of the massive disappointments, I think, of the new era is that Williams were in a awful situation and there were supposed to be two things that lifted them out of it. Firstly, Doralton Capital and secondly, the new regulations.

Those two factors were supposed to combine to make. make Williams far more viable than they previously were. And they're in the same position. They're in no difference whatsoever. So just like George Russell was completely ineffective in a terrible car, I think Piastri would be the same. So their number one priority has to be getting this car sorted out. Because as much as I don't like saying it, the car is the most important thing in F1. Would you rather take Latifie in a Red Bull or Vastappen in a Williams? I'm taking Latifi and a Red Bull. The car is the most important. And if you take it, it's about whether, it's about the budget cap. If you can maximize the budget cap with Piastri instead of Latifi,

of course you take him any day of the week. But if you can't do that, I don't think I'd do it. One of the key perks, though, that you brought up the George Russell agreement that Mercedes and Williams had. I think that was a fantastic relationship for them at the time, especially during the period where in the hybrid era, that Mercedes engine was dominant for what, 90% of the regulation. Now, Piastri won, what, Formula Renault first time of asking, Formula 3, first time of asking, Formula 2, first time of asking, the guys won A3 championship in the first year he's taken part in for the last three years. That is amazing. Now, if you get that talent, I don't think it can be underestimated as to how uplifting it can be for a team to see both of your drivers fighting

on the fringe of the points rather than one of your drivers may be there and the other one so far away damaging the car that regularly. Let's see if he's damaged that caring off at the cost cap, he's paying for it himself at this point, right? The front wings, rear wings, tires, axles, suspension. He's caused millions of pounds of damage on that car. I'd like to think that Piastra will be a lot more careful, a lot more ascute in his driving manner. But the other point that I make with George Russell and Mercedes is the same as what Piastri can do with Renault engines. Now, Mercedes don't have to be. A lot of have the same link with Williams anymore. Albon is in that seat. Let's see if he has no Mercedes link whatsoever. Are they still getting a discount in that manner in the same way?

If you're talking maximise the budget cap, focus on the car, they could be the only customer team of a Renault engine. Al-Pet can form an incredible bond here with a team that has got massive culture, long-term history. It could be a real massive opening. We see how quick that Al-Pin is in a straight line. This could be an open door for Williams to try something new and maximize the car, and get a driver that can uplift the culture, the people, the atmosphere in that team. I don't think there's actually too much to lose. I don't think Latifi brings anything positive. It's only a hypothetical of, is he allowing the budget cap to utilize the most?

If they show me the books and it said, with Piastri, we hit 100%. With Latifi, we hit 45% used. I'll go, all right, okay, you've got over half the budget left. But if it's like 10% in it, I think he's worth. that extra 10%. Can you imagine if Williams, which was, you know, for quite some time seen as the Mercedes B team,

ends up in a place where it's got a Red Bull junior driver and a Renault junior driver and a Renault engine? Total Wolf's going to, his head's going to pop. How do that happen? Fair point. And this sort of move might be the thing that keeps Nick DeVries on the sideline. Who knows?

In terms of Oscar Piaastri himself, Sam, how much of a good move do you think this would be having a year out and then going to a team that is potentially, at least at the moment, the slowest on the grid? Do you still think it's a positive move overall? I think taking a year out is not the end of the world, right? Arabon took that year out. He went and took part in some other sports, DTM. He did well there. And we've seen he's come back and he's come back. He's come back. He's seen he's come back. He's come back to William. He's up against Latifi. and we saw what George Russell could do up against the TV. But he's jumped back into that team. And what? Nine times out of ten? What, eight times out of nine?

He's done a really spectacular job. He's been really, really strong around pretty much every track. He's leading the way for that team. So I don't think taking a year out is as negative as it seems. Ocon did the same thing. Took a little while to find his feet. And he's putting in some pretty solid performances. He's outclassing a long-so at the moment if you look at the points table.

So, again, it's not a bad thing taking a year out. I don't think it's great for anyone in their development. you always want to have a drive, you always want to be growing and taking your chances. And if I'm Piastri, I would take literally any seat. I don't care if it's Williams. I don't care if it's Haas.

I don't care if it's Ashton Martin or Alpha Romeo, wherever it may be. If someone is offering me a 12-month contract in a Formula One seat and I haven't got one, I will jump at the chance because you can show off. You've got a year to show yourself, to prove yourself. And if that goes well, you could be made. I'm helping you haven't got anything to lose on this sense either.

If I get their young prodigy, into a car, especially it isn't their own car. They are essentially running three drivers in the season. They are able to evaluate the difference between Ocon, Alonso, Piastri, all at once. There's no what ifs. There's no, how would it work? Who would be the better option long term? The Piastri shout allows that door to open if he gets some time, even at the back of the grid,

because you can compare him to those around him. You've got data to read. For Piascri, this is a must get. If I'm Piascrib's agent, I am beg, borrowing and stealing any chance to get in that seat. Harry, what do you reckon is this positive move for Piastri if it were to happen? Yeah, because, you know, as Sam has already said, it's about the comparison to other F1 drivers. And you've already seen what George Russell can do in a truck of a car. He proved his worth enough that gained him a Mercedes seat.

So basically, having an F1 seat is still better than not having an F1 seat. it doesn't matter which F1 seat that is, it's still better. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you remember those manor cars. You remember the HRTs? Like having an Andrea Moda seat. It's not exactly.

Hurt. That's what HART really is. It's just hurt. Just hurt. Every race. Hurt. Hurt. It hurts.

Oh, it hurts. make it stop. Do you know this is so off top of you know? Do you remember HART and like 2011 they didn't have any sponsors so they just ran things that said your sponsor could be here on their car? Yeah, like one of those cheap advertising balls

that's still like the motorway. It's great for it was only like 10 years ago? Like just over 10 years ago. Anyway, what was my point? Yeah, anyway, good. Any F1C is better than not an F1C because I yeah, I completely agree with Sam,

it's all about the comparison. I think he can still... Because there's so many limited seats on the grid these days. If he turns his nose up at it, Williams come and say, we want you. And then he's going, I don't want it,

actually. You're right, lads. Don't worry about it. And then no other seats come knocking because Alonzo and Ocon are still there in 2047. Then he's going to kick himself. It's very possible,

exactly. So, yeah, I think he's got to grab it. It may not be the ideal situation. He may have been thinking, had his eyes on the Alpine seat, but as I've always said,

that's not happening for a while. So I think he has to take this opportunity if it comes along. Yeah, and ultimately, patience does pay off. If you look at the George Russell situation again, three years in that Williams, he had to be very patient, but ultimately he's being rewarded now.

And you wouldn't say that his time at Williams really hurt his development because, I mean, he's doing brilliantly, despite the fact that he spent three years in a back marker team. So the likelihood as well is that Piastri probably won't need to wait three years. It will probably only need to be one or two, which is better. So, yeah, I agree with both of your points here. I think that he should jump at the opportunity.

If there are other options out there, sure, consider those. But if this is the only opportunity, then yes, you definitely go for it. because ultimately a one-year gap from F-1, I know he hasn't technically been in F-1, but a gap between racing at least. I think a one-year gap can go, is almost a 50-50 coin flip as to whether it will really hinder you or help you

because as Sam's already mentioned, Albon, you would argue that it's helped him that extra one-year-out. O'Con, it definitely didn't. I know O'Con is back up to speed now, but he really struggled early on versus Ricardo. So I think it can work both ways, but certainly when it gets to two years between racing, that's where it becomes very difficult to get back into the mindset,

get back into where you need to be. So, yeah, I think Piastri should, if an Alpine seat isn't going to happen, then this is the next best alternative. A seat is better than no seats. It doesn't matter what that seat is, apart from if it's a hurt. Folks, I've got, apart from as I hurt, got good news, William's Instagram is back. So they go. Oh, thank you.

You can sleep easy. Go give him a comment and say hello from at L. Breaking. I do on the latest post, as of as of now, is a picture of Alex Albon doing a peace sign saying National Selfie Day. So go and comment on that and tag us. Say at L Breaking brought me here, not Alex Albon. Alex Albon did bring me here. What brought you into this world?

Yeah, yeah. I thought he meant more like, did he drop him off at home? I thought he gave a lift. I didn't really go away back to birth. No, that's right. If you need a lift any time, Alex. I'm more than happy to help out. You seem like a good chap.

Get the polo out. Yeah. I have to call more. Yeah. What we talk? Oh, F1, that was it. Alpine. Just before we move on to our next topic, a bit of a quick one.

Harry, do you think this works for Alpine as well? Yeah, because again, it's the same situation as Mercedes had with George, gives them an opportunity to really evaluate him against a field of F1 drivers, which he doesn't currently have that opportunity to prove himself. So, yeah, for Alpine, because even if, you know, I'm sure whatever deal, if there is a deal struck with Williams, there'll be a clause, which means that Alpine can pluck him out of that seat whenever they so wish. So if it ends up that Alonzo or O'Ockon don't stay until 2047,

then they've got that. They'll have a nice option in Piastri there. So, yeah, again, for Alpine, it's a no-brainer. Yeah, I think Alpine might need to fight Alonzo on what the contract length is, because I think for Alpine it works best if it's just a year and then they can decide after Piastri's had a year in F1. Alonzo, I think, has said that he wants to race for the next three. So maybe they meet in the middle of two.

but for Alpine, say it's a good move. They don't desperately need him. And this is a way to keep him in the sport without. And, you know, the mistakes, the early season mistakes, the early career mistakes, I should say, they can happen a different team. That's good for Alpine. So, yeah, I think this is a no-brainer for them. Sam, do you think good move for Alpine?

Yeah, I think the key part as well is not just getting another drive on the grid. It's engine data. It's understanding how their engine is performing and other in terms of their competitors. They are rapid in the straits, but having four engines is better than two, right? You can analyse that data much better to get better feedback, the other teams running different setups. It makes a lot of sense. There's a reason why Mercedes do it. It provides income. It provides data. It improves relationships. Alping, if they want to be the big hitter that maybe they were when Alonso was racing with them a long time ago, then they need this, I think.

Transfer Talk Part 2 is coming up next as we discuss Pierre Gazley, being signed up until the end of 2023 with Alphotauri. So it was confirmed over the Canadian Grand Prix weekend that Pierre Gasly is set to race for Alphi until the end of 2003. We already knew that he had a contract with Red Bull as a whole until that time, but it was unconfirmed whether he would be racing for Alphatari next year

until France Tost or French Toast, as we like to call him, mentioned it in a press briefing. So again, this is almost a... very similar discussion to what we have with Oscar Piastri. You need to look at it from the driver's perspective and indeed the team's perspective. We'll start with the team on this one. Harry, do you think this is a good move for Alfatari to keep his services for another year? Yeah, I think from a team point of view, it is because Gazley is still,

he's had a slightly more troublesome year than last year, but it's still been solid. and it makes sense to keep him because, you know, Yuki Sonoda has had a much better 2022, but as we've already pointed out in the review podcast, he sometimes forgets what the brake pedal is. So I think having GASley there alongside Yuki, Ghazley being a more level head-headed experienced driver, I think that makes sense.

From a team point of view, sign him, keep him for another year, and then at the end of that, you see what your options are in terms of UriVips, etc. are the other Red Bull Junior drivers. It was really interesting the way that French toast, Franz Tots said or phrased it, because he made it sound like they were keeping him against his will.

They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be there. He's there. And there's no formal announcement. It's just like Francis is saying, yeah, he's not, you'll go in nowhere, sunshine. You might want to. You're not going anywhere. So maybe it was already, he was already contracted for that time.

But I thought it was a weird way of announcing it. He just sort of said it. He said it offhandedly in an interview, I think. So, yeah, peculiar. But from a team point of view, makes sense. Before I go to Sam, just to mention Yuki Sonoda, who I know is a massive fan of the podcast, listens all the time. He is a late-breaking Hall of Famer for a reason.

Don't listen to Harry. Just break whenever you want to, Sunshine. Don't worry about. Yeah, you literally said he had to at some point, which is true. you've got to at some point break. Yeah. Otherwise, we'd be no breaking.

Give it a race or two. Yeah. Why the rush? There's no rush for breaking here. Sam, good move for Alfa Tauri to keep Pierre Gasley on for another year. I can't believe the hypocrisy towards Yuki Sangha after you gave him worst drive of the day for not breaking.

And now you're telling him that it doesn't need to break. This is bloody ridiculous this podcast. We're not going on to anything to do with the worst. drive of the day. I've moved on immediately. I've moved on immediately. You know, you're having an argument with someone and you're like, I'm just going to let you have your point. Oh, I'm right. Bye. Um, basically, this is a terrible decision from Alfordari. What a waste. What a waste of your time? What a waste of your money? Um, I don't understand how this is positive for you after this season. Why are you bothering to keep Pierre

Ghazley in this seat? I love Pierre Gassley. I think he's a real talent. He's really come a long way. but if you have no intention of placing that man in a Red Bull driver's seat or extending his contract so you allow him to develop to do so then what's the point of the Alpha Tauri seat? Alpha Tauri will never win a World Championship. Alpha Tari will never be title contenders. That is not the purpose of Alpha Tauri. They are the development team for Red Bull.

You know, technically it doesn't say that everywhere, but we all know what it's for. They're the development team. Now, if you're no longer going to develop a driver and just let them run down their contract, and then ship them off somewhere. What's the point? You could get someone else in there at the end of this season.

Yuri Vips could step in and have an extra year free to develop or Yuki-Sinodians another year ahead. And then you've got a really good staggered approach. But currently, you've got Al-Bonging or Williams, who you could now put back in the Alpha Tauri if you want him to carry on developing. Or you could put Yuri Vips in there to get a Formula One seat to carry on developing. Or you could buy out Oscar Piaastri and put him in the Alpha Tauri and let him develop and maybe put him against Max Rastaping.

this just feels stupid. The only thing that Alpha Tauri get is a consistent driver who can put in good results, but that's not what Red Bull is for. That's not what they need. So if this was a McLaren, if this was Aster Martin, yeah,

makes total sense why you keep them around. But you're not. That's not the purpose of you. So I don't get this one as a business decision. It seems a bit pointless to me. I'm not a fan of it. Before we're going in further, Red Bull have just suspended Uri Vips from all team duties with the media effect.

So make a that while you will. Is there a reason for this? I think you've been saying some unpleasant things online. So he might not be getting out on Rory C. I got sent that video actually before we're recording. I haven't watched it yet. I am not aware of this at the moment. I didn't know it either until Red Bull just tweeted.

So, yeah. Dan tick them 2.0. So, well, I guess that means maybe not Yuri Vips in the seat, but I guess your point at large still stands, Sam, in terms of what you think they're just a different junior driver maybe. Yeah, I mean, F2, they've got a couple in there, right? I wouldn't put Deruvler in there myself, but I'm forgetting the game, I'm drawing a blank.

Who is the young Norwegian chap that is driving for them at the moment as well? That's it, Halga, right? He looks very optimistic. See how he does for the rest of the season. Keep that door open. If not, stick Albon back in there, and Piazori can have Albon seating. Latifi is saved by some weird series of events.

Honestly, my point still stands, though. I don't get why they want to keep Pierre Gazzley in that seat. He's a brilliant talent, but it does not make sense for their business model. There is a deep pain in my chest. it hurts it hurts bad and the pain has a name and the name is agreeing with sam um it's like that it's like that meme um you know that one person you hate has a has a great idea or makes a great point this is this is it really um thank you no worries um but you're right on this one sam i think

I don't understand it either because as good as Gassley is, that's not really what's important here. Gassley is great, has been doing great for a long time. It's kind of irrelevant because you're right, Alpha Tauri, as wrong as it is in my view in terms of what Formula One should be,

does exist to serve another team. It serves to exist, Red Bull. And ultimately, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the notion that Red Bull don't see him as that next guy, don't see him as a Red Bull driver, it doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with it. That's how they see it. And if that's how they see it, what's the point and keep him in him around?

Because there's no, what's the goal? What's the objective? What are you aiming towards? If you know this guy's not going to get in that seat anyway, he's just filling a seat. He's a lame duck president, basically. What are you doing? You might as well invest in Liam Lawson or invest in Helga or whoever it might be in F2 and give them a chance. It would be far better for Red Bull to try one of those drivers and completely and utterly fail

than keep Gasly around. Because at least you've tried at that point to get your next guy. We know Perez and Vestappen are locked in for a couple of years now. So really, all of your decision making, and I mentioned this a few weeks ago, all of your decision making should be towards when Perez and Vestappen are out of contract. that's where all of your decisions should be based around because at the moment the only advantage I can see to having Gazley in that seat is he's an obvious next man up in emergencies and in the slim possibility and the slim tragic possibility that he was required in one of those Red Bull seats if that's the only reason you're keeping him around what's the point

release Gazley he can you know he can flourish elsewhere and you can just focus on where you need that program to be in a few years' time. It seems to make sense to do it that way round, rather than just holding him hostage for a couple of years for the sake of it. So yeah, I'm annoyingly on Sam's side on this one. I don't understand it. That means I've got something right for once. Can I can't believe we've done this, gone this far in this segment and Sam hasn't said ghastly boy. Oh, yeah, Ghazley boy. You could have avoided that, Harry.

You could have avoided it. I would have forgotten. I would have forgotten. Yeah. People will, they want it. They want it. Gassily boys. Speaking of Gassley,

do you think that it's a good move for him to stick around? Because if there aren't any other opportunities about, at least he keeps, he has the opportunity to keep showing what he can do. So do you think it's a, an all right move for Gazley himself. Which one of us are you asking? Who is that for?

Which one of you wants it? This is what happens. Dave. Dave, you can do it. Go on, Dave. DPP. I'll go. I'll go.

Nice one, Harry. Cheers. Difficult because what were the other options for Gazley? Maybe McLaren, although I still think that's unlikely. I know Ben might have. other views on that one. I think they'll keep Ricardo and maybe they have to due to the contractors in place. Maybe

Aston Martin, but again, is that a better move at the moment? I'm not sure. So, yeah, but in that sense, it's an all right move, but in the sense of his, the rest of his career, it's not great because

I still think it's a good move for the team, but for Gassley, it's not because he's not going to ever be a part of that Red Bull team. is he? So, as you've already mentioned, what's the point in him sticking around at Alpha Tauri when there's other seats available where he can progress and do a Carlos Sines and move on, move on with his life rather than hanging around with his ex-girlfriend?

So, yeah, it's a, it's a tough one because I don't know what the other options were that were better. I think McLaren probably was the only option, if it is an option. Ferrari? Ferrari. He's right with the Ferrari cap, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's going to happen. Carlos size is washed. Yeah, I don't know where he could have gone,

but from an overall career perspective, it's not fantastic for Pierre. And as you've already mentioned, it does sound like he's being held hostage slightly. Bless him. But, yeah, he's tough out of luck. He's not going anyway. He's contracted in, so best get on with it, Pierre.

Sam, what do you reckon? I'm going to take the double pleasure of disagreeing with Harry twice in a row. I think actually, as much as this was not a good move for Alfa Tauri, this was a very sensible move for Pierre Gazley. We've already mentioned on the podcast, an F1 seat is better than no seat at all. And there are no contract opportunities open for him this year that make sense. He wouldn't really go to Williams.

They've got options that I think a younger driver could do more for them. unless Red Bull did a complete swap with Albon and then it's a real kick in the shing with Pierre after the last swap that he was a part of as well when it comes to Red Bull. Daniel Ricardo's contract runs out at the end of next year and as Harry mentioned, Ricardo's not going to go anywhere anytime soon.

He's driving a McLaren. That's still better than getting into a car at the back of the grid unless he's getting booting out the door by them and they're paying through the nose for it. Ricardo's going to take another year to turn it around because he's at that point in his career where he hasn't got options flowing towards him anymore. So Gaze can get into that seat now.

There's no word on Seb or even Lance going anywhere from Askin Martin. And also, Lewis Hamilton's contract at Mosegis rungs out at the end of next year. We don't know obviously if he'll renew or not either. But there are a couple more openings appearing at the end of 2023 than there are the end of this season. Pierre Gazley is 27 next year. He'll be 27 years old when the 2023 season ends. He will be at the midpoint, you know, 45% of the way through his career at that point. there are other talents coming through that have possibly got a better long distance longevity in their career than what Pierre Gazley has.

He's got to make the next transfer window work for him. Otherwise, it could go very, very badly. But he's got a seat nailed on for another season and a half. He's got 18 months to impress every single person on the grid. If he keeps his stock high, I think this is the way he does it. There is a real chance of him securing himself for see it for the foreseeable future somewhere. I'm not sure where, but somewhere. I think this is the right move for him.

Yeah, I doubt there was much of a say on Gasley's side, to be honest, because as we know, he was contracted to the Red Bull team on a wider basis until the end of 2023. So regardless of whether he wanted this or not, it was probably thrust upon him. Is it good or bad for him? I think it's fine. I think ultimately he needs to frame it in a certain way in that if he didn't have much of a say in this, he's just.

got to accept that and say, okay, there's not much I could have done about being in this spot for another year. I'm locked in for the next 18 months or so. I just have to maximize my opportunity because he can show what he can do in F1 better than someone who's not an F1 can. And really, that's all he's done to this point. Since being dropped by the Red Bull team and going back down to the junior team, all he's done is build almost a highlight reel of what he can do. Now, you're right, that this season has been a bit of a bumpy start, but overall, he's done fantastically well in 2020 and in 2021. And if he can just keep doing that, there's nothing more he can do. He just needs to keep on building like his show. It's his showcase essentially. That's how

he needs to treat this. This is my opportunity to show other teams when I am available what I can do. And maybe that is enough. Maybe that isn't enough. But at least he's doing something for when he has the chance to go elsewhere. And maybe that would be enough for the McLarency or the LPC. But ultimately, if we're looking at 2024 as the next time he will be available, a lot can happen in F1 in 18 months. We don't know what seats are going to be available at that time. And Gasly needs to treat it that way as well.

Ghazley just needs to say to himself that there could be an opportunity I don't even know about yet that will come about by the time. I'm out of this seat. And they will look back on this time now, and my performances as a judgment of whether they should take me or not. I've just got to go out there every race, show what I can do, whether it's for the team, whether it's for me, it doesn't matter. Just got to perform.

We're discussing Alpine quite a lot today. And that's going to be on our next topic. We're going to be discussing who's more likely to finish P4 to stick around right after this. So we've seen that Alpine after a couple of pretty good races and McLaren after a few, dodgy races, P4 and the championship is now pretty close. It's McLaren who still have the advantage, but Alpine have closed right up to the team. So we're still fairly early on in the year, and the question remains, which of these two teams is more likely to finish in that P4 spot? Sam, have you got an instinct on which of those two teams is more likely to do so?

It's quite a bizarre one, isn't it? Because I think after the first few races, we were there going, oh, McClaren and Mercedes. They're going to meet the P3 team. and McLaren are now, what, half the points of Mercedes or something like that, which shows the consistency of the Merck guys, because they haven't really got anyone near their top car. Maclaren now, yeah, right ahead of Alpine, who, it feels like the last two or three races, they've gone, what should our ethos be?

What should our car be about? What should we speed? Straight line, I just want to be a rocket. I don't care how Cy am in a corner, because you can't get past me if I'm too quick out of it again. I can't respect it. It's quite impressive how both wide boy they can be in terms of their defending ability and just how bloody quick they are in a straight line.

And there are a lot of tracks that rely on straight line speed. How quickly can you get from zero to 200 and stay there? And we've got a lot of them coming up. Silverstone, power track, spa, power track. Monsa, obviously a power truck with a temper of speed. Austria, huge power track. The next four, five races, they could quite comfortably leapfrog McLaren. Now, I think it's more up to McLaren now to work out what their ethos is.

Where are their strengths? What do they need to develop? I don't think McLaren know what's going on with their car at the moment. One race, they're qualifying sixth, fifth with Norris. The next race, both drivers are well outside the points. One race, Ricardo is certainly the guy that's in the points and Norris can't seem to catch a break. they seem to have a different issue or a different weakness to every single track and it must be so frustrating for their technical team.

It must be so frustrating for their engineers to build that, to develop that because it isn't one clear obvious error going on with that car. And because of that, I think Alping are more likely to bridge the gap and pass McLaren in the Pointsaw. And also is already on form, despite poor performance in the Canada race. And Ockong has really settled. I think he's really, I'm not saying it's driver of the season stuff, but he's doing a really solid job.

He's scoring points pretty regularly. He's performing where he needs to perform. Ricardo still hasn't had a consistent performance, and Norris is doing great, but again, doesn't have the car behind him. So for me, it feels more likely than it is Alpine that will take fourth place rather than McLaren, which I think there'll be a tough pill to swallow for the papaya boys.

That's not a thing. That is not a thing. Not a thing. We'll still force it through, though. That's how we do things here. Yeah, I'm not sure whether we're being prisoners of the moment here in thinking that Alpine can compete with McLaren because you're right, we did discuss not all that long ago,

McLaren versus Mercedes for P3. And it looks like one of those two teams has certainly got the advantage in that respect. So maybe we are being prisoners at the moment, but I am with you. And I do think that Alpine have a very legitimate chance to take P4 from McLaren. and ultimately it does come back to one person and it comes back to Daniel Ricardo

and it would be some weird cruel irony if his performances were the thing that gave his old team the advantage but I can see it happening and ultimately that's kind of what's happening already and what has already happened before I'm getting flashbacks to 2021 here because ultimately McLaren over P3

rather than P4 they were in a scrap with another team. And it was Ferrari. And what happened? Well, Signs ended up with 164 points. Norris ended up with 160 points. And LeClair ended up with 159 points. Three drivers, all within five and a half points of one another, very tight knit.

But in the constructors, Ferrari won by about 50 points. Why? Because Ricardo was on 115 and he was nowhere near. Ultimately, Ricardo's performance last season, cost McLaren a shot at P3, and there is every single chance that that could happen again. Think if Ricardo performed well last year, if Ricardo was on Norris's level, you know, maybe they end up a couple of points off of Ferrari, maybe they still don't quite get it done, but they would have been applying the pressure in a way that they definitely didn't last year.

That it probably would have gone down to the last race of the season. At that point, you know, if there's a one-race shootout, maybe McLaren can put enough pressure on a Ferrari to force them into a mistake. We know Ferrari soak up pressure-like kitchen foil. Like they're not very good under pressure. Maybe that would have been enough. Maybe that would have been the difference. But I fear we might be heading in the same direction this season

where you're right, Ocon has been solid this year. The points don't really reflect how good Alonzo's been this year as well. I think both of them have been very solid. And Norris has been solid as well. he's on 50 points at the moment. But Daniel Ricardo is sat there on 13 or whatever it is. He's in 13th place in the in the championship. And it's just, it's not enough.

And it might well cost them. Daniel Ricardo has only scored points as we record this twice this season. He's only scored points twice so far this year. Would you like a complete list of drivers who have had fewer points finishes this year? Because it's not a very long list. It's Nicholas Latifi. It's Nicholas Latifi. Nico Holcomberg, who by the way, has only raced in two races this year, and Mick Schumacher.

That's it. Those are the only drivers on the... Thank you. The only drivers on the grid this year who have fewer points finishes than Ricardo does. So if Ricardo doesn't up his performances, I can see it going down the same direction and Alpine necking it. What do you think, Harry? I think that going on the discos is going to come for you, mate. The one who likes Daniel McCarde.

He's too busy with Sam for a few weeks, so I've got a bit of a head start on that. God, that was proper ramp from Ben. He's had a swig of water afterwards. He's probably gone for it. Hey, hey, don't undersell me. This is lemon and lime sparkling water, my friend. What is that from?

Morrisings? Is that a Morrisons? It's an M&S. Oh, big bus. M&S plug it's had on our podcast. We had the flapjacks on Sunday, and now we're on the lemon of line water. That podcast money's really such a rolling for you, ain't it, boy?

Damn right. Yeah. I was drinking out the sewers two weeks ago, but we're starting to get somewhere. Oh, bloody hell. Do I have a point? I don't know. I'm going to sit on the fence on this one because my name's Harry Ead. God, splink us up your bum every week.

Ben's going to spend his water up. I've got the M and Seng. Save the money. No, Ben, not. Don't spin it out. But good for sake. Right. I think it's too difficult to tell because

race to race these two teams turn up and you're like, well, I think Alpin a bit doing well lately, they'll probably do well this weekend and then they turn up and they're like, nah, don't worry about that. I don't know what you're on about. and the same for McLaren because like you say rightly

near the beginning of the season we were you know saying whether whether they could be in third place and then they've had some races where their pace has been bad real bad and maybe it's because these tracks we're like Baku and Canada where it's quite power driven have Sudu Dalpin way more than McLaren so I think there's a I agree with your points you did say about you said about Daniel Riccardo Ben but I do think car car to track, you know, performances this year are going to be pretty crucial because I genuinely

think there are some tracks where McLaren will do way better than Alpine. Monsa is not one of them. I think Alpine could win the race by about three days there, judging by performances lately. But yeah, I think it really does depend on how the cars are going to perform from race to race. I think it's too difficult to tell. So my conclusion is, I don't know. Great stuff. You always chill of us. I do just want to add one further thing to your point, which is in terms of the fluctuations. I think it's kind of gone under the,

or at least been forgotten. Yes, McLaren had better performances earlier in the year. Do you remember Bahrain? Yeah, I don't count Bahrain. I mean, that didn't happen. We were asking like, okay, are they on Williams' pace? Like, what's going on here? So, yeah, it does seem a bit of a weird one

in the midfield at the moment. It's like Hass. I reckon they are quite literally a yo-yo, aren't they? One race, they're all the way down there. The next race they're secondly picking up, you know, a fourth place. And yeah, straight back down there again. And we all love yo-yo's. So maybe McLaren are just having a good old time.

Or if we don't all love yo-yo's. I don't think they're that great. I mean, I'm, yeah, you know what? I reckon that might be, might be the worst point I've ever made on this podcast. No, Chas. That's a tough one. Oh, go away. Yo-yo's are, what's the point?

Like, is that, you know, I know people say, oh, it was better back in the day when, you know, kids didn't have internet and they went outside and played with their yo-yo's. But dear God, what a dull toy that. How long before that gets boring? A yo-yo. Honestly, like, the internet. Oh.

I was just going to say that the internet is supreme over all the stupid toys. Yeah, right? Like, oh, give me a bit of stringing some plastic and I'll stand in the garden on my own, like some loner because I had no friends as a child. Has no one been on TikTok?

Come on. That beats yo-yo's any day. Anyway. Yeah. Screw yo-yo. Well, sorry for any yo-yo enthusiasts out there. I appreciate we've lost your custom today, but

thank you for listening. We've got F1 back and forth after this, so you should probably stick around. Just call it F1 Yo-Yo. All right. F-1 back and forth, or F-1 Yo-Yo as it is being called today, for one episode only. Let's see if the jingle works. I'm going to call that and no.

Why is it not working? I don't know. This bloody software, like, no. F-1. Yo-yo. Up, F1. It's just live. Yo, yo down, you throw it forwards.

It might go round, it's F1. Yo, yo down, it's F1. Perfect. You might need to play the jingle, Harry, because I'm just done it. I don't have to do it again. Are you happy with that? Well, I might play it.

I might play it. Right now, Harry and Post, play the real one. Okay. F1. back and forth it's f1 back and forth it goes backwards then goes forth it's f one back and forth f one i call me yo-yo sam like yo-yo ma it's painful utterly painful um hurt hurt hurt hurt right f-one back and forth if you've never listened to this segment before it is Sam versus Harry in a battle of wits. I will give them a category. There are a number of

correct answers in this category. They have to go back and forth until one of them cannot think of an answer or indeed gives a wrong one. And they've got no idea what this category is going to be. Of course, today there are 17 correct answers in this category. And it is circuits that Ayrton Senna has won at. And there are 17. A few of them. A few is correct Do you need like Do you need the circuit name Or just like the Grand Prix

The Circuit name please Not the Grand Prix Like exact name I'll be a bit lenient But Yeah First time for everything All right

Yeah exactly I'm feeling nice apparently Sam do you want to go first on this one Yeah It's nice to have the upper hand I'll need this I'm going to go with don't pay going toise me if I get it wrong

Circuit to Spar Francahomp or the Belgian Grand Prix As long as you don't say the Belgian Grand Prix and you say Spa that's all I'm looking for Oh right Spa I want it to be Spar Spar he won at five times

Harry Monaco Monaco the obvious answer he won there six times more than any other circuits. Sam? Oh, he had the famous performance at Donington, right? He did have that famous performance at Donington. European Grand Prix, of course, one-time winner there, but obviously only race there once.

Adelaide. Adelaide, he won there a couple of times. Sam. Let's carry on with the big games for a minute. Suzuki. Suzuki, yeah. Obviously, a lot of memories for him at Suzuki. Not all great, but he did win there twice.

Harry. Monza. Monza, yeah, he won that a couple of times as well. Sam. That would be fun to listen to headphones, I imagine, for all you're listening. goes out there. I'm going for Circuit de Gilles Villeneuve. Yep, he won there twice as well, Harry.

Interlagos. Interlagos, of course, his home Grand Prix. Took him a while, but he did eventually win there, and he won there twice as well. Sam? I need to stop making these noises into the microphone. imagine it's varying away for people. Have we said Silverstone?

We have not said Silverstone. Do you want that as your answer? Yes, I will submit Silverstone. Yeah, a bit of a risky one because the only one there once, but Silverstone is correct. Really? Wow. Yeah. Strange one. He broke down like three times or something, didn't he? Yeah. Anyway.

Oh, Mario. Yeah. back and forth that's how it goes never done this before y'o yo esteril yeah

again a one-time winner there but quite famously his first ever win Sam this is reminded me of a circuit it was around a similar time as they all work as single was racing on them I'm going to go for hereth

that's a good shout hereth yeah managed to win there twice, it took over the Spanish Grand Prix in the mid-80s. Won a very close one against Nigel Mansour at Hereth. Harry, we're going along nicely here, just six more answers. Oh, blimey. Did he win at Phoenix in the US?

He did win at Phoenix. He won there twice. I think there was only three Grand Prix in Phoenix, and he won two of them. good battle against Jean-A-Lazy in one of those two. John Lacey. Crazy John Lazy getting a mention on the podcast. Great friend, of course. Sam, five answers to go.

I love Crazy-Jol-Lazy. I'm really sick. I can you say Phoenix, Harry? Because that was one of them that I had literally no idea on. So thank you for ticking that box. Welcome. I'm going to go a bit safer. Hockenheim Ring.

Yeah, a bit of a risky one, because it's, tough to keep track of where the German Grand Prix was. But it was at Hockenheim in Senna's... It was Hockenheim. Of course, Noberg Ring. That could still be an answer. But Hockenheim three times he won. Harry.

Oh, God. Where else would he have won? I mean, that is the game that we're playing, yeah. Correct. Can't think of any more tracks. Go for Baku. Definitely, definitely want to Baku. Definitely won at Baku.

I don't know. I actually can think of any more tracks. Don't know. Did he win at... I actually can't think of any tracks that would have been around. Did he win at... Not Baku.

Snatterton. Not Snettiton. Or Alton Park. No. Old Towers? that's a great track oh god um

take you for a ride there you're an idiot no I'll throw in the towel can't they get many more tracks alright the towel has been thrown in it gives Sam the win

there were there were four more out there did you have any more lined up Sam uh yeah I had a couple of definites I think uh Imola

Imola he won at three times of course, tragic ending for his Imola career, but did win there three times, yeah. And then I've got one more that I think he's pretty likely, and then I've got one more that is a total punk, which Harries reminds me of with his Phoenix call. I'm going to go for the Hungara Ring. That was about when he was about. Surely you won that?

Yeah, he won that one three times. Oh, just the three. And then the absolute punk, the absolute punk was going to be, to quote my man, Eminem. Detroit Yeah Detroit you won at three times as well It's a good show He was great at Detroit in the 80s

The other one that you didn't get Was Mexico Omanos Rodriguez I can't say it anyway Unfortunately So it's probably better I didn't try to pronounce it

Yeah Yeah That was a pretty good effort Overall guys But Sam you do Do claim the win on this one I enjoyed that one Ben I mean, I enjoyed it because I got them right, but that was a good one.

I've started to realise, Sam, that basically you're fine on these games, as long as it's not order please. If it's very specific knowledge where I only have to think about one topic at a time, whether that be a driver or like one year, my brain can focus. If you go, Sam, then we've had 70 years of Formula One. The answer could be anywhere. I crumble immediately. Crumble just like Ferrari thinking of what strategy to do. do. Get one last one in for the road.

Well, I would say Sam sing us away, but apparently my soundboard's not working, so maybe you won't. I'll put it in. Yeah. All right. Cheers. Yeah. Cheers, mate.

Appreciate that. F1. Back and forth. It's F1. Back and forth. It goes backwards. Then goes forth. It's F1.

Back and forth. F1. Um. Well, that's probably that then, isn't it? Yeah. Do you want to get us out of here for this one? Should we go? Oh, it feels sad saying goodbye for so long.

We're not going to be here for a whole week. Upsets me these days when we're gone for so long. So, yeah, we won't be about it. There's no race this weekend, but we will be back next week for the Silverstone preview. We're all very excited, of course. You can have to go what might happen at Silverstone, which produces a bit of a banger. So do join us midweek next week for that preview,

and force the Silverstone Review will come straight after the race. So keep your eyes peeled on your favourite podcast channel, whatever variation that might be, Spotify, Apple, I don't know, your mum might translate it for you entirely if that's what you need. Of course, during the meantime, you've got a week of No F1. Join us elsewhere for more chats. You know, it might be Twitter at Albreaking, Instagram. Remember to tag us on Williams.

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then Discord is available in the description. Mr. Harry, we'll put it there. Thank you for actually doing the survey. We're closing the survey now. We have hundreds of responses, which is incredibly helpful for so we can start going through them. And it will never be a full change of the show. We're keeping the show majoratively as it is, but we are going to listen to your feedback, and we massively appreciate it at the time for it. Merch, the cap link. It works now, everyone. You can buy caps properly, because I didn't mess out last week. Ben's fixed it. Matt's available. And we do have

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I've offered them more than enough. I hope you enjoyed it. Oh, what? One more thing. Very UK-centric, this one. So sorry, US folks, but. Oh, yeah. Thursday, this Thursday, 23rd of June.

Tomorrow. All three of us are at the... Or today, maybe. Correct. As, yeah, if you listen to this. No, yeah, maybe it's too late. Anyway, I've committed to this point now. All three of us are at a good festival of speed.

if you see us there, shout some nice things, and we might say hello. Don't shout horrible things. This may be way too late. You might have, this date we've already gone. So I regret, I regret everything. Sam carry on. No. No, Sam's died.

Sam's literally died. So done with your point. Oh. My hotspot just died. My hotspot just died. Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm on normal Wi-Fi.

Anyway, I'll round it off now. Yeah, thanks for, thanks for stopping by. That was some chaotic moments at the end there where I disappear off the face of the earth. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been a HRT sponsor. Heard.

And remember, keep breaking late. Gasly boys! God. So hurt. Cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.