The Late Braking F1 Podcast - The Biggest F1 Rivalries of 2025!

Episode Date: February 2, 2025

Reunited as a trio, Ben, Sam, and Harry rank the most exciting rivalries to watch heading into the new season. Plus, they discuss Johnny Herbert’s departure as an FIA steward, South Africa’s competing bids to host an F1 race, and wrap things up with a game of Order Please. FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please play responsibly. Thank you for listening to the late-breaking F-1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the late-breaking F-1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. Yeah, we've got F-1 to discuss whatever. Sam, how is New Market? Honestly, honestly. New Market!

I never thought when doing this podcast that New Market would get such a shout-out. But I saw a lot of horses. Yep. On your training course. on my training horse galloping around a hobby horse I went to an auction

a horse auction a hawkion why it's combining two words together so funny it isn't but it is to us I found my calling I think I might have to quit the show

and become an auctioneer because I could see you as an auctioneer I think that is it Yeah exactly I could do it I could do it Anyway it was great

I had to sleep a single bed in a uni dorm for a week. That's that, lad. No. No one like, I miss my bed and my back hurts because I'm old now. But yeah, it was great. I had a fry up every day of the week. That was great.

Nice. And I then listened to you guys, attempting outro, and knew that I can ever leave this show, really, because you would crumble. I think we were fine. I think we were better than fine. I don't think Facebook has got that much coverage in a long time. That absolutely got me. I'm all, why are you promoting Facebook?

Give Facebook a plug. Also, I haven't heard down with the Kigs for a while. Yeah. A bit of a return that. Yeah. Good. A bit of back reference. Nice.

Let's do a real showing out. Yes. Now we've got new market talk out the way we can actually get on with some F1. We're playing F1 order, please, a little bit later on. The South African Grand Prix and its bids lining up for an F1 race in 2026 or 27. the FIA dropping Johnny Herbert leaves as a steward. But we're going to start with top three most exciting rivalries for 2025. Now, we've kept this intentionally quite vague because it could be driver versus driver,

team versus team, driver versus team. It could be something that we've already seen before, maybe in 2024 or before that, or maybe something that we're expecting for the first time in 2025. So we might well get some different answers. We might all come up with exactly the same thing. Sam, what are you looking forward to? Number three on your list. Yeah, Yuki-Signoda versus Red Bull.

Oh, David versus Goliath. I'm really short, David. I saw, sorry, Sam, real side-knit. I saw a video yesterday on Twitter. And it was a video of Yuki-Sen-Sin-Syft. on the grid. And the camera's pretty much down at his level. And George Russell comes up behind him and, like, gives him a hug.

And it's like a giant has appeared. It's like an optical illusion. I'll find it and send it. It was so funny. Anyway, please do. Yeah, I know this is maybe a bit of a knee-shopshund, but Yuki, I think, understandably, slightly lost, slightly angered, slightly frustrating about where his position lies in Formula One.

And I think last season, this may sound about hard for your Yuki stands. he fully earned his place on the F1 grid last season for me. He showed that he's not just a driver that has moments of brilliics, but a lot of the season he crashes the car or he's nowhere to be seen. He was more often than not, one of the better drivers in a race, regularly providing points to R.B. Toura Roso, Alfa Tauri. He was able to regularly destroy, in his words, his teammates. He made the most of a car that was not very good,

and he was pretty much the main reason for a lot of the season, why they were in that fight with Haas and Alpine for that kind of sixth, seventh, eighth battle. So he was obviously snubbed at the end of the year when Perez was booted and Lawson got the call up and I understand the reasons why. And I'm more power to Liam Lawson. I hope you're very successful.

But from Yuki-Singoga's side of things, I think he's going to be absolutely fuming about what's going on this year. And I think he's either going to be trying to earn himself a position away from this rebel family and that Honda partnership coming in, that Aston Martin, may provide that if he's able to deliver on the goods,

or he's going to hope that Liam Lawson absolutely crumbles and he gets the chance to take that place. But I do think he's going to be trying to prove himself big time this season. A question for you on that, because I absolutely agree that Sonoda and how he fares in 2025 is one of the more intriguing storylines going into the season. If you had the four options of Sonoda in 2026, drives for Red Bull,

drives for racing balls, drives for a different team entirely, and is out of the sport, most likely to least likely. Oh, I think it will be racing balls most likely. This is like a game show. This isn't fair.

This is like order please. But you can't get it wrong. No, that's true. This is the best measure of order, please. I think it's most likely, unfortunately, for him, unless he absolutely delivers a world, superstar level,

season. He is staying in racing balls again. This is because the other team, most likely Austin Martin, also is concreting himself inside of the F-1 car as we speak and it would take an army to remove him. And Lankstrol, if you don't know, has familiar relations with the owner. So as much as it's logical, it goes there, I can't see it happening anytime soon unless Honda really put their feet down. And then I think it is Red Bull and then I think it's leaving the sport altogether. I really do think that his position is. Formula One isn't at complete risk. I don't think he's one of these drivers that has to literally drive to survive

and that he will be able to keep himself in for another couple of years. He said the thing. He said the name of the show. Do the line, Sam. It's interesting. Harry, number three on your list. I've gone for Alpine versus themselves. I knew it's going to yourself.

I am. Themselves always wins. We'll get out next time. But also themselves technically loose as well. Wow, themselves really got hands. I am once again intrigued to see what Alpine will do to stop themselves from being good this year. No, I, in all seriousness, I think this is actually quite a cool. crucial year for Alpine because it's their last year.

That's a sole, you know, manufacturer with their own engine. They've obviously decided that's a good idea to get rid of. They've got a rookie in the car. They might also go for another rookie at some point. That's not the rookie they've already employed. And I think they've got to try and convince Pierre Gasley that they're a good place to stay, a good team for him to stay at because I'm not saying the options are massive for him,

but I could see. Oh, short hair gasly's got options, man. New hairline, new hairline, new me. Oh, you mean Sid from Toy Store. Don't be horrible to him. He's gone out there, he's been brave. He's got himself a new hairline. I wish I had the money to do it because I need it.

He looks mean. It looks like a thug and he's going to come get you. With a baguette. With a baguette. But there's a few things riding on this year. And whether they're going to be, you know, up for sale soon remains to be seen it could be highly possible given the way things are going flavia briotori is working his magic on that one um but i am just intrigued intrigued to see what they'll do because they did so many things last year to stop

themselves being good i'm intrigued to see how much they'll do this year whether it's on purpose or not i don't know but who knows there may be another team principal by the end of the year they may have completely different driver lineup there may be no people left working on the team it remains to be seen It's so confusing the way Alpine, who were driving a brick for most of the year, decided that in the last six races of the year, could regularly have, like, a top six driver and car. I just... Well, this is what I mean. You think, but based on the end of 2024, the start of 2025 should be relatively okay for them, but it's Alpine.

So who knows? Oh, boy. We're going to get smug Alpine again. They themselves got us on the ropes. Back themselves into a corner. I have got at number three, Fernando Alonzo versus rookies. You kids. We saw what happened last season with Liam Lawson at the United States Grand Prix.

That was Liam Lawson's first race back after a year out. And of course, it'd only done half a dozen races to that point. Liam Lawson deployed some robust defense against Fernando Alonzo. And Fernando Alonzo said, that's fine. Don't worry about it. Oh, wait, no, he called him an idiot. And afterwards, according to Liam Lawson, he, in no uncertain terms, told him that he was going to get revenge for that.

And Fernando Alonzo's version of revenge, if you remember, was overtaking Liam Lawson and qualifying coming out of the pits into turn one. God. The scene of Alonzo waiting in his pit box, like, don't release me until Lawson's gone. Lawson goes by. I'm out. I think there is a bit of a

these young kids don't respect the old racing rules that we had I think there's an element of that to it and good news is Liam Lawson is now joined by five other rookies or near rookies I think there could just be at least once this season Fernando Alonzo telling a young driver off I love that idea I saw a meme yesterday

that was an activist accidentally changed herself to Fernando Alonso's neck because it was so thick. It's a tree drunk. Like a tree trunk, yeah. I also saw something from a quote from Bortoletto who said that he was really excited to join Salba, because Salba's been his dream team to drive for. Come on, mate.

It's a joke. It's not real. It's got a real quote shortly. Is that better or worse than Kimmy Antonelli's favorite driver being Ian Senna, who died 13 years before he was born? No, no, no. No, no, Kimmy and the letter. Oh, it's for me, Kimmy.

Well, I'm glad you're living out your dream, Gabriel. Number two on your list, Sam. Much more serious rivalry here. And it is a classic Ferrari versus McLaren. It could be a calamity of errors, mostly from Ferrari's side. Who knows? But it feels like they actually, and I say it again with hopeful eyes, they mean business this season.

They've currently made a lot of right decisions. Hamilton seems more positive that I feel like I've seen him in a long time. He put out a post the other day that was, you know, first race can't come soon enough. You think after the way it ended in 2024 at Mercedes that he was going to take some time to get back on the horse or the prancing pony, so to speak.

But it does seem like... Training course is paying off, mate. Honestly. You are so down with the horse lings. go. Yeah. Let me down, back down there.

Louis, I'll take your down the down New Market. I'll take your horse down to Old Town Road. What was that song? Nulgar's X sound?

Anyway, he basically said it. He didn't sing it. Just like you did. That's how all songs are spoken. Yeah, Lewis who's famously very buoyed

at the moment, really, really upbeat, positive. Lecler is, Ferrari aren't doing what Williams are doing and ignoring that they have to do drivers. Lecler is still getting his love, is getting his respect.

They will be a very respectful duo to each other, I believe, as well. So that paired up with the up and coming youngsters at McLaren, who have proven that they are actually fantastic and have a car to win. We are going to go back to the dark ages of F1, where McLaren and Ferrari, I think they're going to be juking it out for a lot of the season. So I think that's going to be thrilling. If they get the cars right from the start, I think it could be a really big season. number two for you Harry

well Sam I've seen year for I versus McLaren and I'm doubling down because I'm adding Red Bull and Mercedes and Mercedes yeah my as I've said before my my hopium is high

and I truly believe we could end up with all four of these teams in a fight this year it could be an all-timer and I'm looking forward to that I'm just looking forward to that basically all four of those teams involved

it might not necessarily be all the drivers but you know you might end up with one driver from each team in a championship fight but even say four drivers for a championship fight I'll inject that I'm ready so as long as as as you say Ferrari don't do you know Ferrari things McLaren are fast and not silly

Red Bull they've got Max for Stappan so I think at least I'll have one one arm in the fight and then Mercedes, if they decide to understand their car, George Russell had a really great year. And I think he, even if Little Camille and Erl, isn't quite there from the start,

which I don't believe, because he doesn't have a slow switch on his, on his settings. He just goes fast everywhere. I can't wait for him to fly out of the PISN F. In Australia, he's not going to do the first show. He chooses it. Because they've just set the car to have no brakes. Please, go me now.

No, no, I'm not Louis Hamilton. Slow me down. 18 years old. But there's a recipe for a really great year here. If all of these teams can have competitive cars. And we saw all four of these teams have competitive cars at one stage or another last year. So I believe that they can. So I'm buzz for it.

Second for me, Russell versus for Stappen. It's, oh God. Yeah. Yeah. They hate each other. Please, please let that happen because they really hated each other by the end of the year. A summary of what did happen towards the end of last year. We actually got a bit of a precursor of this in Baku, if you remember, in a sprint race a couple of years ago,

where they weren't very happy with one another. But it really exploded at Qatar last year, where Max Verstappen got the fastest time in qualifying and promptly got a one place grid penalty, which is, up there for most stupid penalty of the season. I maintain that, which gave George Russell poll position instead. Vastappen accused Russell of lobbying to the stewards that there should be a penalty. Russell then accused Vastappen of saying that he was going to take his beeping head off on the track. Then I think Vastappen said he lost all respect for George Russell.

So it's fair to say that they weren't particularly best of friends at the end of that Grand Prix. and that spilled over to the end of year meal that they all had, if you remember, where apparently there were two available seats. Both of them were next to Max Verstappen for the last to arrive, George Russell, and he just plunked the chair somewhere else, which is the kind of petty nonsense that we love to see in this sport. There is a question mark about whether, and there's a reason that Russell and Vastappen hasn't been a rivalry for all the time they've been at Red Bull and Mercedes.

And that's because these drivers are always relying on the teams and themselves to create something of a level playing field. And that Mercedes just hasn't been quick enough for the most part to compete with Red Bull. But if we see something similar to what we had in the second half of 2024, and if Russell can produce his absolute best, maybe we'll see these guys on track a little bit more and we'll get more fireworks. Do you think for Stappan is like, ah, Hamilton stepped away from Mercedes?

That time is done. We can move on from our rivalry. And it's like when one was seeing his driver's steps aside, another one takes his place. So Russell's like, I've got to live up to my hero. I must enjoy Vestappen for a whole year. That definitely leads on to one additional point as well, is that if there was Vestappan versus Russell rivalry,

the team bosses aren't going to tell their drivers to back down. No. Because that's Toto Wolf and Christian Horner. It's a wheelhouse. they missed each other. They not really had much chance to... What did Toto call Christian Horner again?

It's like a dog or something. He called him a terrier. He said I'd rather be a terrier than a wolf. That's the worst bat chat ever. Boom. Bam-a-ba-b-b-b-b-b-h. Yeah, honestly, I love those two. Number one, Sam.

Ben-Suliam versus the GPDA, because we've only just seeing the first chat. We're in the prologue. There's a lot to come with this one. I think you mentioned on the show that I wasn't here for. Mattresses in a hotel lobby feels like

it's definitely possible. Hands will be thrown. Alpine will be throwing it at themselves in the corner, I'm sure. Whatever else is in a baffle. You're going anchor man where brickwalks and he's holding a grenade. But where you get a grenade from?

I don't know. That's Alpins. I was going for a different one, which is, ah, blowback. Cheers Ralph Williams Sorry Alpin you killed a guy

Yeah it was myself That's what feels like it's going to happen this season I feel like we are going to go into an almighty Political battle With digs their right and sent through press conferences And interviews Ben Sillian will come out of some bizarre rulings It is going to be lit

So hopefully it should be pretty pumping on the track If Harry's predictions are correct Which thing ever are And off the track too in terms of what the chat we're going to get. So I'm pretty excited for how ridiculous it's going to be. Number one, Harry. Hamilton versus Leclair.

For a number of reasons, I think it's the slight question mark over. Where is Hamilton? Where is Lewis Hamilton right now? Is he at end of 2024? Newmark, isn't he? Well, yeah, apparently so. Running around on the horse. Prants impotting.

Proust and Polly. Yeah, where is it? Is the end of 2024, Lewis Hamilton, or is he going to be bounced back to 2021, Lewis Hamilton? How's he going to get on with the new team? Is LeCler going to be rattled? Is LeCler going to carry on the great form he had from 2024, arguably his best season in F1?

How are these two going to get on? I think it's a really intriguing, really intriguing storyline because two, well, the greatest of all time, and Charles LeClair, who does not have enough, not enough success associated with his talent, quite frankly. So there are points to be proven from both sides. And I'm very, I think they'll work together very well, but I'm true to see how that will go in 2024,

providing Ferrari actually do a good car. Won't spend too much time on the first place for me, because it's a repeat of what we've already heard, but I've gone McLaren versus Ferrari brackets, Red Bull and Merck, feel free to join Plus. Yeah, all four of those two teams drivers had multiple wins in 2024, and the new driver into the equation is Lewis Hamilton.

If you haven't noticed, he's won a few races in this sport. Both teams are strong, good lineups, good cars, if they follow on from what they had in 2024, pretty consistent across the season. McLaren a little bit better on low speed. Ferrari a little bit better on high speed, but what it all led to was just 14 points in it at the end of 2024. If we get something close to that again, we've had a good season.

But you're right, as you said, Harry, with Fast But Silly, both of these teams do have weaknesses that need to be worked on. From McLaren side, it is just ensuring that Hungary doesn't happen again, and Monza, whether they were seemingly fighting with each other more than they were fighting the Ferraris. that sort of thing can't continue to happen if Ferrari are good. And then Ferrari just need to avoid those really awful races, like Canada, really cost them at the end of the year. But also Silverstone with Lecler and the wrong tires.

And you had Singapore as well. I think that was a real missed opportunity for Ferrari. So if they can match the consistency of McLaren and McLaren can stop getting in their own heads, we could have a very interesting duel between those two teams. Let's take our first break. On the other side, we are talking about Snetterton's favorite child, Johnny Herbert. Your business doesn't move in a straight line.

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so it's easy to find a solution that works for you. Visit canadalif.com slash employee benefits to learn more. Canada Life, insurance, investments, advice. Welcome back, everyone. The FIA has announced that Johnny Herbert will no longer serve as a steward. A regular on FIA panel since 2010, Herbert was among the first X drivers invited to join the stewards. However, he has faced criticism for comments given to gambling companies, which were then offered to me. media outlets. The FIA indicated this is a factor in his decision to remove him. In an FIA statement,

it was said, it is with regret that we announced today that Johnny Herbert will no longer fulfill the position of F1 driver steward for the FIA. Johnny is widely respected and brought invaluable experience and expertise to his role. However, after discussion, it was mutually agreed that his duties as an FIA steward and that of a media pundit were incompatible. We thank him for his service and wish him well in his future endeavors. As mentioned, I mean, Herbert's role as a steward goes back nearly 15 years at this point, Sam, your thoughts on this decision and an overall thought on whether stewards should be able to be involved in the media in the same way that Johnny Herbert is.

I think this is the right call that he stepped down from this position. And that is very much linked into my opinion of them being pundits in the media at the same time. Being a steward should be so impartial. You should be essentially never seen but only heard at those right moments. I'm sure you all had a little grandparent back there being like, children should be seen and really heard. It's the other way around for stewards that I should never have to notice what a skewer is doing and their voice should only ever come out when an incident occurs and then they should be a complete unit of confidence. I should be like a look to their point of view and trust what they're coming from.

And so if a steward is a pundit or is providing information to other companies or to people who have a different interest, whether that be monetary or entertainment, then there is a risk of potentially saying something to gain something back. I'm not saying Johnny Herbert has done exactly this, but it does feel like that is a possibility. You may do it to boost your own profile. You may do it to boost the profile of the sport. and that is not the purpose of a steward. I also feel like Johnny Herbert has come under a lot of criticism

over the last four or five years, mostly from the non-Brit related camp. And, hey, I'm not going to tell you how to think or feel. If you feel that his decisions are biased, if you feel that he has made decisions that don't suit your team or your driver, sure, you're entitled to feel that way. But I do think he has lost the respect. unfortunately of a lot of people who watch Formula One

due to this theme of them not believing that his decisions are fair. And so you pair that with the punditry element and it feels as though his decisions can never be trusted. Despite him, I'm sure, coming to it with a very upfront, open mind, non-biased perspective. I think he takes his role very seriously. I think he really enjoyed being a race steward and I think he cares a lot for the sport.

But when you've almost lost that, call it the public license, where you're given a license to operate by the public and it's okay for you to do what you're doing, basically on matter of opinion. I think he's lost the public license to operate as a steward, which is unfortunate, but I do think it's the right time for him to step away,

and hopefully someone will replace him who does have that entirely open-minded, non-bious POV, that is understood by the public, because I think that's a really crucial side of things, it being understood by the average viewer. or Formula One. Harry, does this mean that Fernando Alonzo might just retire now? Yeah, he's done his job.

There's any reason he came back to get Johnny Herbert to leave. And there in a contest that, by the way, it's not just a really random comment. That was a comedy made it in Sky's, yeah, it's like 2016, 2015. A long time ago, yeah. Made a comment that Alonzo should retire. Psych, Alonzo's still here. Johnny Herbert isn't. Retired twice.

On Sky and from the FIA, he's gone. Oh dear. My thoughts on it? Yeah, I think this is the right good. I do feel like did the FIA not notice the fact he's been on Sky for the previous 11 years. And now they're like, oh, no. You shouldn't be a media person and a steward. Wait, I know that guy.

Well, based on that, do you think they're just using this as an excuse? I think potentially, yes, because he's, he's been. a media person for the entire well pretty much the entire time he's been a driver steward so why now are they having an issue with it after he's now left his role with with Sky and obviously

that just those comments made to the gambling company that's very niche but anyway not good um yeah I think this is the right call probably a bit too late but um uh the

the steward shouldn't be also media pun it's at the same time because it just it just opens let alone um you know being impartial i think it just opens up too much opportunity for criticism of the stewarding process when you've also got the same person who can then comment on the you know comment from a journalist journalistic point of view about the you know about the sport i think you just it just opens up too many too many cans and too many worms everywhere because I don't see how how they how they can operate like that and I am surprised it's gone on for as long as it has so I think it's the right call I don't know

because I also saw he got announced as an ambassador or something for low-luff in formulae I don't know whether that's related as well but um whether that's part of the part of the decision because that was announced pretty soon afterwards but yeah clearly clearly change needed I also I think it's a bad thing given what we said about the state of the FIA and the stewarding. I think some new eyes, some new people looking over each race weekend is probably a good thing. So thank you for your service, Johnny. You mean, I'll leave. Salute you, Johnny.

I am with you both that I think this makes sense. I think generic media work is one thing. And maybe I could be convinced that that is okay. But I think there are two things that absolutely aren't okay and why I think this decision makes sense. Number one is that, I don't know, promoting gambling companies and being sponsored by them as Johnny Herbert was, that is, that feels like a conflict of interest that can't be avoided. The second part is doing media work in any form on the same weekend that you are a steward

because Johnny Herbert, I can't remember how many races exactly he was a steward for this year, but he wasn't a steward for all of them. But as an example, he was a steward for the Austrian Grand Prix, where famously we have Norris versus Verstappen collide towards the end of the race. Afterwards, he's giving his view to whatever gambling company it is on the incident. That is not okay. That's not all right. So sometimes when a statement from like the FIA comes out and it talks about mutual agreement,

I sort of go, hmm, are you sure about that? But here I actually genuinely do think it might have been mutual agreement because I think it was probably, look, Johnny, you can't continue if you do this and then Johnny going, all right, fine, but I want to keep doing that. So, yeah, let's just part.

They pay me. That's, yeah, they do. So I reckon he was just told he was not allowed to do both and Johnny Herbert chose the other. option and maybe maybe the formulae low cars comes into it somehow but yeah i an extra point on this as well because we are talking about media representation of stewards and and whether they should be in the media or not doing punditry work i think and this is somewhat related as part of being an fia steward i do think there needs to be some more accountability for the decisions and more

transparency about the decisions like we get official fia statements come out after the fact and they explain what the penalty is. I would like to see, let's say the Monday after a Grand Prix, I would like to see a video, like a five-minute video from a representative of the stewards outlining their decisions. This is why we did this. This is why we did this.

Like, um, oh, his name's completely left my mind, but what Mercedes did after each race and they broke, they broke it down, didn't they? Why we're successful here, why we don't understand.

It was James, yeah. It was those, daddy vows, of course. Yeah, I, yeah,

something like that. It would be great. And honestly, I would be fine if they turned around in one of those videos and said, you know what? We made this decision about this incident, but it was a real close one. Because sometimes that's it. Like there are some really close incidents that you can see multiple ways. And we just don't get that openness, that transparency.

It means a modernisation, isn't it? It's that paper on a white page with a kind of text. Hey, the generation, including us, I got the way. They go bringing a time for that. Yeah, but it would actually be okay with the white page. paper and the text on it. But a lot of the time what they write on is absolute waffle. Yeah, TLDR.

Yeah. That's what leads me on to, like, is Johnny Herbert a good steward or not? Was he a good steward or not? And it's really difficult to say whether an individual is a good steward or not because they're always in a pack of four, right? Like, you can't really distinguish one from the rest. So when the decision comes through. Like a gang.

Exactly. Clicking down the road, gentlemen. Westside story. It's a collective term for FAA stewards. That's the question. What is the collective term for stewards? Gosh. I'm only joking stewards.

But like, you mentioned Waffle. The Australian Grand Prix. Do you remember the Alonzo and Russell incident? Oh, I don't have he started. The statement on that was one of the worst things I've read in my life. Johnny Herbert was one of the stewards that weekend. Well, exactly. That explains everything.

he hates Alonzo Yeah fair Related to this Zach Brown has weighed in He said he would welcome full-time FIA Ray stewards and would accept McLaren paying a percentage towards their wages

Currently F1 stewards are unpaid volunteers and is led to calls for F1's governing body to employ professional stewards to help improve consistency in their decision making FIA President Mohammed Ben Suleam is open to having permanent

stewards, but has raised the question as to who would pay for them, saying the drivers don't want to pay for it. Zach Brown said, I don't think we're set up for success by not having full-time stewards. As far as paying for the stewards, this will probably be unpopular amongst my fellow teams. I'm happy if McLaren and all the racing teams contribute. It's so important for the sport, it can't be that expensive if everybody contributes. It's not going to break the bank.

What about those fines, boys? What about those fines? Where do the fines go? I mean, there's, I argue there's some impartiality there if they start putting fines on drivers from the stewards and they go,

we, that's a thing, our back pocket. Yeah, well, a Christmas bonus, you're all fined. Yeah, it's fucking grandee.

I know, but the point is, there is money floating about here. Come on. There's a lot of kish. There's a lot of kish left over at the feast, you know?

I do like a, even a crumb of Kish is worth a lot of money when it comes to Formula One, but reach out of the back of the F1 sofa. You know, in the press,

you know, where they're doing it. There's got down there, there's got to be a few pennies that you can pick out and throw at people. Also, this is an opportunity for development. I think we should have full-time stewards. I think they should be paid. I think it should be. It's a role that is so important.

You have referees in the Premier League running around for free, just because I used to be ex-football players. It's a bizarre setup. But we can set up, you can set up a school, an academy. You can have people that are educated and brought through and people are giving opportunity. It's another chance for that. What do you point yourself for?

We could do it. we could do it. We'll go to school. I've to spend a week in New Market. I can spend a week in Monaco. It's very, very similar. Very similar. And it's a chance for another scream of promotion, of encouragement.

It could be really spun to a positive outlet. But no, the F1 teams cannot put money into the stewards. There is a risk of something going wrong there, of favouritism occurring, of someone adjusting. things, oh, a little bit of a little bit of this, a little on the side from McLaren, maybe. You know, it's just, it's too much trepidation. There's too much openness of conversation of debate.

It should just not come from the teams. It should come out at the prize pot before the prize pot is delivered to the teams. You go, we take out 200 grand, and that will go to four stewards across the year. I mean, that's better. I'm not against, yeah, the way it's delivered is probably the way, but I'm not against every team having to pay the same amount.

like they have all they sacrifice the same amount which is used to pay stewards because there's no there's no jeopardy there's not like it's a I recommend could change their direct debit but no one noticing McLaren playing one steward an extra million each year yeah but I do see a point but I

would suggest there is a logical way around this if they're willing to do it then I think it's fine for them to sacrifice a bit of money that then pay stewards. And yes, they should because why, and Zach Brown makes this point is bang on. Why in this sport, this multi-million dollar sport? Billion.

Well, billion. Why do we have stewards that work for free, for free? Like interns. Why is that even a thing? I think and also make them permanent because I think we've tried the new the driver steward that was brought in but Johnny Herbert was one of them you bring in a driver but it's a different driver for for different races it's not the same one so you lack consistency of that there make them permanent make them paid employees of the FIA of F1 because this can't go on as it is because it's it's untenable Firstly, I do just want to say Mahambo Ben Siliban, you should pay for this. Oh, yes. But you should pay for this.

And you know the answer that you're not giving about where the fines are going? This is a really easy way to answer that question. You could just, well, we were preparing it for this very reason that we're going to have full-time paid stewards. But no, he doesn't want to take that. So also the drivers don't want to pay. Of course the drivers don't want to pay. And what other sport would the drivers pay for the stewards or the umpires or the referees?

It's moronic. Imagine in Tennis, Roger Fegger, was chucking the umpire, 50 quidd at the game. There you go, mate. Thanks for your time. Sure, that works in other sports, doesn't it, Mohammed? Come on. Zach Brown, I think, is spot on.

I'm also okay if it does come down to no one else is going to pay, so it has to be the teams, although I do accept your point, Sam, that it would need to be heavily regulated. You would need to keep a close eye on it to ensure that no team was taking advantage. It would have to be the same amount across the board. That does raise questions about whether it would be more difficult for some of the lower teams on the grid and whether they could pay for it in the same easy way that the top end teams could,

but I don't think it would break the bank for anyone. So I think that would be fine. and I think the FIA might well get on board with that because Nicholas Tombassis, who is the FIA's single seat director, he had some comments to essentially say that this could well be on its way, this sort of way of working. And he said similar to my point about post-race media, something or other to explain their actions,

he said like having permanent stewards in place would mean that at least internally they could go over those decisions on a Monday, work out what went right, what went wrong, which doesn't exist at the moment because again, they're all unpaid volunteers and you're not going to have, you know, you're not going to be able to get them in on a Monday to do something that then also not paid for. So I think that makes sense. How I would do it, I would probably have eight stewards trained up throughout the year to be able to do this job and have it on some sort of rotational system.

I think what we obviously want is consistency. And having fewer people is definitely going to instill that consistency. I wouldn't want to go down to just four train people because I think at that point you run the risk of, well, what if one of them can't make a race? What if one of them can't make multiple races? What do you do then? And then I also think if you only have four people,

we still need the rules to be consistent, not just the people applying them. I think there would be almost a lack of incentive to ensure that the rules were spot on if you could just rely on the same four people every single week because they have experience of working together, they know each other inside out, they know exactly how they work.

At that point, they would go, ah, there's no much point updating the rules because we've got the consistency we need. I think both need to be updated in parallel with one another. Shall we take our final break on this episode, on the other side, we are talking about South Africa. everyone. It's been over 30 years since Formula One last raced in South Africa, but that could soon change. The country is actively pushing to secure a Grand Prix for 2026 or 27, and three competing bids have emerged.

Kailami, the former home of the South African Grand Prix, is seen as the favourite, but two ambitious bids in Cape Town are also in the mix. With the bidding deadline extended, an F1 yet to commit, I guess the big question remains, will South Africa finally get its race back, before we get to, you know, whether it would get one of these bids accepted, Sam, is Kyle Lami the favourite, do you think? I just, before I talk first about this bidding deadline, it's just another thing that the FIA just seemed to go, just can't move the goalposts a bit, you know, it's a deadline for a reason, just accept that you got what you got and move on with your lives. It's Kyle Lamy the favourite.

For me, Kyle Lamy's the favourite. If I had to, if we had to race again in South Africa, which would be a welcome addition to the sport, then Kealami is a fantastic race track. It's got heritage, it's got history. It's been a way long enough that we still feel like a very fresh addition to Formula One. And I welcome an African race generally. So South Africa feels like a great place to start.

I don't think Keelami is actually the favourite, especially around the internal workings of the FIA, with MBS, the silly man himself, it does feel like street circuits to the way forward. It feels like street circuits are where the money, the dollar bills are going to be coming from.

And in a capital city, as big as Cape Town, to have a race going through there, I can see them absolutely licking their lips, a chance of huge, huge revenue. We do need more proper tracks on the calendar. We are starting to lack the disparity between, you know, what is a proper track

or what is a street search. market is starting to blend and we're starting to really lose those real pillars of racing in F1. So I would love this to go back to Kiolami, but I would not be shocked at all if actually behind the scenes. Cape Town is definitely being pushed along as I, hey, we've moved the deadline. Can you get your plan solidified a bit on where this might be and how this might actually work in that town so they can make that happen? Harry has a return to Kyle Army a probability here or do you think it's more likely that

the street circuit wins again. It's probably less of a probability now than we would have once hoped for given that, as you say, this deadline is extended. Yeah, it does seem like, and from an F1 point of view, it's like the Formula E model of business, which is they set up in street circuits

because you bring your sport directly to the people, whereas a racing circuit tends to be, there are many circuits that are right next to cities. And countries and governments tend to like that. Yes. When you bring money to your cities. So this is, yeah, the formula e-model of doing things, which is it's a, it's a more cost, not even cost effective, but just a profitable way of doing it.

So does, yeah, worry me a little bit because I would like, I'd like to go out to Calami, but I do worry that this new bid for Cape Town might be the one that winds out just with the way things are going. That would make me sad because I don't want any more street circuits. I've hit my limit. I've hit my street circuit limit and we need to have a cap. So I'd rather go back to Carl Ami.

But I just worry it does seem a little less likely given given the way things are going with F1 at the moment, Madrid, all the other street circuits we have at the start of the year, all year basically. So, yeah, we'll see. I'll remain hopeful until I'm told not to be. Speaking of, Sam, Harry, good folk on YouTube, podcast. This glass.

What is it? It's a boot. It's half full, mate. It is half, half full. I really took the literal approach. character. It's also definitely not half full. It's two-thirds for you. You're that positive. I am remaining positive. I think Kyle Army is the favorite here. Obviously, it has the history and the infrastructure, which doesn't mean everything, but it is, Kyle Army is a grade two circuit, according

to the FIA's way of grading all of these circuits. You have to be grade one to be an F1 track. So there would still need to be an upgrade, but it's less of an upgrade. for Cape Town because Cape Town would need is a grade three circuit according to its Formula E layout from a couple of years ago. So there's less work needed to be done there. And of course, we know that the bid is for 26 or 27. So even next year or the year after, it's quite a tight turnaround. They're not giving themselves a few years here. So I think that plays into Kyle Army's favor. By the way, with the Cape Town two bids, one of them is based on the Formula E circuit that was raised a couple of years ago, that is not good to go,

but it's certainly more good to go than the other one, which is the, it's like the small city project that they've got going on, but it's not scheduled to be ready for another 10 years. Why are you bidding for something in a year or two's time when it's not going to be ready for 10 years? That's a plan. I think we can safely narrow this down to two. Let's put it that way.

The sports minister in South Africa is publicly bad. backed Kyle Army, which is good. And there is established dialogue between Kyle Army and F1, because if you remember back two years ago, 2023, there was an attempt to get Kyle Army back already. So they wouldn't be starting from scratch. Like there would have been probably people from both sides that would have been involved in the discussion beforehand,

which just gives a bit of a better starting point. Cape Town wouldn't surprise me at all for the reasons that you've listed. I think it's commercially got more potential. and we know Kyle Armie's first bid two years ago came unstuck because of financial issues, which that's not going to go down well with the FIA. So has that changed, that's probably going to be one of the leading questions as to whether Kyle Army is the true favourite, but I'll choose to be optimistic here. I think probably the biggest threat overall to Kauteng or Kyleami is other African nations

who want to have an F1 race and could possibly pay more. South Africa can stump up. You know, we've heard Rwanda have already showing a lot of interest. We had the ceremony there for the motorsports awards. That was placed there. Tunisia was spoken about recently. Kenya's had their name mentioned Morocco, I think,

as well. Tanzania, back by Giancarlo Fisichella. Come on. The real favourite, the people's favourite. It feels like there's a lot of competition to get an African Grand Prix. You know, they need to make sure they're unified because I think they could lose it. Well, that leads me on to the next question which is Africa and otherwise will any of them get through will any of them

get on the calendar regardless of which one the winner is i do think if a stable business plan could be presented i'm talking generally here regardless of what nation where we go then we need an african grand prix it is a crying shame that we are a global sport we have a world championship and we do not visit one of the most populated continents on the planet we need to be there in some respect it will be great for the sports to make a profile there be great for youngsters to have something aspirational to look up to um there are many wonderful places on that continent that we should be visiting and going to so put together a solid business plan get your funds in order you know great tracks can come about i do think with this rotational calendar come into effect

to tracks like spa having to take a year out every now and again there's space there there's there's opportunity there so let's stop cramming them into one little area of the world and let's see if we we can get a track in a whole new location because I think it will be spectacular if we could. Harry, your thoughts? Yeah, I think it needs to happen. I feel like going back to South Africa first will be the, it would be a good way to test the waters somewhat.

I think if you jumped back, if you jumped into Africa and went to a Rwanda, not to say that they shouldn't, not saying that at all, but it feels like if you went back to Kyle Ami first and see how that went, because at least it's somewhat tried and tested in the hosted an F-1 race before

and then build out from there but yeah I think it does need to happen it seems like it's been on the cards for a few years now the problem is they just need to find some space on the old calendar which is quite full currently which I think Ben I've just led you on to your next question yeah pretty much it's that is that is the issue

like where does it fit in? I think it is possible because, as we know, it is the last remaining properly inhabited continent that doesn't have an F1 race. And... I'm telling me Antarctica, doesn't... The penguins, they're NASCAR fans, they don't care about it.

Oh, you know, they love hovels down there in the snow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they love them. Big up penguins. Shotbacker specifically. They love Jeff Gordon. Jeff Gordonpad. Got his jersey on. Little penguin with Dale Earnhardt Jr. on the back.

Shaving their number into their fair. Right, moving on. Yeah, and it has, I think it has support from the drivers as well. Lewis Hamilton has spoken about it before others have two. It does face serious competition from other venues in Africa that you've already alluded to. Rwanda is probably the number one competition. at the moment, but it faces competition from everywhere as well.

There haven't been any changes from 2024 to 2025 in terms of the calendar. Potentially it rotates with spa, although you would need to certainly jiggle the calendar around because even the FIA probably wouldn't put Kyle Lami in the middle of the European season. Don't take that as an idea, I think. It's on the same time zone, guys, so it's fine. Great point. I think the good thing about Kyle Army is that for the most part, and if any South African Johannesburg natives want to correct me, please do. I feel like you could probably have a Grand Prix at Kyle Army

in pretty much any month of the year. It's pretty consistent climate-wise. But it used to kick off the calendar a number of years back. So I feel like that's, it would need to be a standalone race, I think. And I think it would be somewhere towards the beginning of the season. that maybe it would fit. Maybe, I don't know whether it would pay to be the first race of the year,

but maybe the second race of the year or something like that. God, that's a lot of complex moving around. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, it would be, by distance, it would be very distinct from the rest of the calendar. You could do the bridge. Instead of going Brazil to Qatar,

you could do, well, like, Vegas, I suppose, Vegas, South Africa, Middle East. At least that way you've kind of almost got like a weird diversion, I suppose. Yeah, I think you would have to put it at either end of the calendar for sure. Again, not in the middle of the season, please. After Canada is where they're going to put it. That would make sense. Any closing thoughts, or should we go to our final break?

Bit of order, please on the other side. It's time for F1 order, please. Whether it's a can of Coca-Cola or a lump of cheese. Or we're ordering drivers by the size of their knees. This game is full of facts, just you wait and see. This is Formula One. Order, order, please. F1, order please.

Six questions in front of me. Harry and Sam will take it in turns to order a certain question from first to fourth. It will change with each question. If they get it right, they get a point. And John Burko is very happy. You'll hear more of that soon if they do indeed get them right. hopefully we'll see on that one

six questions who wants to go first Harry you can go first one would you like I don't want to go first our number one please number one good place to start

it is to be honest four drivers I want you to list them based on the best position they've ever got in the driver's championship sweet all first

Michael Schumann Landstrol Yuki Sonoda Eshtabano Ocon This is just Midfield Midfield

Stoffel van Dorn Oh this is Midfield Tutt Um I'll go Lance stroll First Esterban Ockon

Yuki Sinoda Stoff Van Dorn That is not the correct order Which means we go over to Sam If you want the opportunity To steal And you get it right You get a point

But if you choose to steal And you get it wrong You lose a point. What order Harry say again? Harry said stroll, then Ocon, then Sonoda, then Van Dorn. Sunoda, then Van Dorn.

Okay, I will steal. Ooh, an early steal. The end of the game. I'm all up for my minuses, you know me. I'm going to say O'Kong finished the highest, then stroll, then Sondog, then Van Dorn. So just swap, I think, the top two.

The problem is it's early in the morning. He might still be in bed, but you need to get out of bed, John Burko. Because that was the correct answer. Burko on a Sunday. FICO on a Sunday, sorry, I had 2020 in my head. I thought Strull did better in 2020, but...

You need to wring all that year, because you don't know what happened. The racing point was good. It was. Not good enough. Esteban Ockon is first. He's finished eighth in the two. championship twice. Then it is Landstrol.

He's finished 10th once. That was his best year. It might well have been 2020. And then Yuki Sonoda has finished 12th once, which I believe would have been last season. And then Stoffel Van Dorn has finished 16th. But he's done it twice. Go on Stoffel. No, that's stuffy.

So Sam, after picking up that point, it's over to you. What number would you like? I like number six, please, Ben. Oh, going to the other end. Lapse lead in 2021. four drivers Daniel Ricardo Sebastian Vettel

Esteban Ockon and Sergio Perez is literally the same question it isn't if that's any consolation okay most to least yeah that's then in 2021 okay hold on so we had

we had on the list Perez Ockon Vettel who's the other one sorry Ricardo thank you okay Now, there's a couple of mixed wingers there. I'm going to say, most Perez, then O'Kong, then Ricardo, then Vettel. That's not the correct order. Bummer.

Harry, do you want to try and steal? Do I want to steal that? I'll go on then. Sunday stealer. A little Sunday stealer. Who was the fourth one you said, Sam? Sorry? My order was...

Perez, Ocon, Ricardo, Vettel. Yes. Ah, right. I might go Ockon first. Then Perez. No, Ockon first, then Ricardo. Oh, spicy. Then Perez, then Vettel.

O'Con, Ricardo, Perez, Vettel, yeah? Yeah. George! Oh, D. No, wait, the neighbours up. Is John Burko having a fry-out because there's two absolute bangers on his plate? He's having brunch on this Sunday morning.

You know it. Ben, it's number one on every order, Estaband Ocon. I promise you, those are the only two. Okay, fine. Okay. Yeah, if there's any consolation, Sam, if I had to guess this, I probably would have gone the same order as you.

Because obviously Perez was in the Red Bull that season. Ocon, 66 laps legs. mainly thanks to the Hungarian Grand Prix. I thought, yeah. Then it was Daniel Ricardo with 48. Because of Monza, right? Because of Monza. And then Perez, 46, so only just behind.

And then Vettel is last with four laps lead that year. That is awful from Perez. I'm sorry, that is atrocious. Well, his only win was Baku, right? And he only got that because Vestel, Vestapen was lean for most of it, but then his tie blew up. But, like, you should just generally be there or thereabouts

in that car. You should be leading more laps than an alpine. Yeah. Well, in Ockon. One all. So we've had two successful steals at this point. Harry, it's over to you. Oh, no.

I've only had four. You've given one of the tunes that we've had. I don't know. I can remember what sounds like. Number four is fine. I'm going to give you four years. I want you to list them based on how Ferrari performed in the Constructors' Championship.

Oh, you've got this, man. Okay. 1973. Yeah, exactly. Good news. 1973 is not on this list. 2014. 2015,

2025, and, sorry, 2020. I was just saying 1974, that would be really funny. Oh, man. So I think the best one would have been 2050.

15. Yes. Then second would be 23. What was more crap? 2020 or 2014? I'll go 2020 then 2014. That's not the correct order. Sam, would you like to try and steal? Well, why not?

I'll just swap the bottom to the rounds, please. John, come on, mate Oh, God, 2020 was really terrible if it was worse than 2014. What's more crap? 2020 was more crap. Yeah, you're right with the first.

So 2015, they were runner up behind Mercedes. 2023, they were third. 2014, they managed to get the fourth. 2020, they finished sixth. Yeah, they were terrible. 2014 was just Fernando Alonzo finishing Thorso to be honest In a rally car

Yeah I almost just wrote Alonzo From the time Um Three successful steals in three questions We don't get any of them right No we steal everyone We've chosen each other's questions What number would you like some

I'll have number five please Ben Number five Four drivers I want you to list them Based on how many poll positions They had in 2024 Oh I was hoping it was all time Landau Norris George Russell

Carlos Sines and Charlotte LeCler Just to be clear No sprint polls Okay The real poll Real poll Okay

Lando Lando was first LeCler was second Who are the other two Science sang who Russell Science of Russell I'm going to go

Lando LeCler Sikes Russell that's not the correct order harry four out of four would you like to try and steal no i don't know this one so lando norris did have the most polls uh he actually tied i think with max festapen with eight then it was george rosserwood four pole positions in the season don't when he did those canada catarr it's just about uh velvester and silverstone that oh very nice So, yeah, he had four. LeCler had three, and then Science had one.

The Clare's washed, mate. We'll talk about it, got the Claire. Washed. So we stay at 2-1 to Sam, and we go back to Harry. What number would you like? Yes. Number two. Yeah.

Oh, good. Boom. Sue Booms. Boom. Four circuits. I want you to list them based on how many races they've held. Okay. Valencia, Brandt Hatch,

Caesar's Palace, and Sepang. Okay. Sapang the most. Then, then Brandtatch, then Valencia, then Caesar's Palace. Always got to jerk it out at the end. Well, exactly. There is absolute uproar in the House of Commons.

We need some order in this place. Spot on. So, Sepang, 19 races, Brands Hatch, 14, Valencia 5, Caesar's Palace, 2. Sam, we're at two all. You have the chance to win it with... Harry, can you just hit number three, me, Lord? Oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, I really need to label these. God damn it. Sorry. Yes, it is question number three,

not question Papa rules now. Four drivers, I want you to list them based on how many times they've won the Australian Grand Prix. Okay, so if any Australians

are in this list, they're at the bottom. Hard luck. Lewis Hamilton. Fernando Alonzo Jensen Button and Rubens Barrakello Oh good law

It's a list of people that can't win the Australian Grand Prix Yeah it's actually they've all never won it So Hallamilton, Marikello, Button Who's your own? Alonzo. Alonso, how can I forget? Or this is a bit of a potluck for me. I'm going to say

Alonso Hamilton, Button, Barrichello. That's not the correct order. Yeah, I wasn't expecting to get that one. Harry, are you content with a draw? What do you want to go for the win? Let's pack it up all in it and waste their time. It'd be really you to say, nah.

Come on, I've got to do it. Can't just say yes, I'm fine with the draw. Okay. The most, I will go for Lewis Hamilton. then I will go for Jensen chocolate button He might melt down there Exactly

Then Fernando Alonzo I think rumours back out as a trick question Because I don't think he's never won it Before Ben gives the answer I was walking around a vintage market yesterday Actually where I saw that massive bench that I sing you in our group photos.

Yes. Gary Barlow's son's bench. Yes, it really was gigantic. I had to run and jump to get onto it. Anyway, that's got part of this story. I went into this vintage area, and they had Ruben Barichello's old white race jersey that he used to,

this race fire suit that he had in there for £2,889 pounds. What? From Stuart? Yes. Oh, wow. I was so tempted to buy it. But overalls or just like the... Yeah, it's full overalls here.

Wow. in a frame signed that's quite cool yeah it was really cool I was like I'm so tempted I thought I didn't really have 300 quid to spend on this right now big up Stuart much

whilst we're on the subject of Barrackado I saw this on Twitter too and then making the point about how no one knows about it or remembers it he did a season of Indycar he did 2012 there was a picture of his Indycar season

weirdly had a few photos around it he was on that did Indycar yeah shook of anyway Sorry, file that under Kevin Magnuson also did an indie car race. Okay, true.

Things that happen, but you don't remember. This is going to be a true or false question at another point. Yeah. So your order, just to clarify, is Hamilton, then Button, then Alonzo, then Barrichello. Hamilton, Button, that's what you said. Yes. To all. Go on, Burko.

It's the 93rd minute. It's crossed into the box. It's Harry Eweather And he skied it Oh no England out of the World Cup again Jensen Button has won the Australian Grand Prix three times

2009, 2010 and 2012 Hamilton has won it twice Yeah Hamilton can't win this race 2015 Alonzo won it just once in 2006 You are right Barrakello Never won the Australian Grand Prix Which means

Sam takes a 2-1 win Oh, I won! Yeah, I don't be through! Lose a point? You should have stuck with a draw, I told you. Be more Harry Eag next time. I don't do ties. No, you don't, to be fair.

Nah. You're an open shirt, man. Open shirt, man. Can't fit around my neck. Marlonzo. Goodness, mate. It's me. Should we wrap this thing up?

A quick shout before the Much better outro that Sam will give compared to last episode. If you are part of the Discord, or even if you're not part of the Discord, we have got just over 3,000 people in there. We are playing a new game midweek. But the game is based on your answers to a form, which is in the general chat on Discord. So if you haven't filled that in, any answers by tomorrow Monday as we're recording this will be accepted as part of that. And we'll play a game to see if Harry and Sam can guess what your answers are to some generic. generic F1 opinion-related questions.

So do get involved. Sam? Get us out of it. Folks, thank you so much for listening. As being said, links will all be in the description below. You can join Patreon, which massively helps up the show. You get loads of extra content. Fear with Breaking has recently just gone live,

and we've done a who would rather, or who's most likely two little quiz between the three of us, which is good fun. In a little studio that we went and visited. You can also join Discord as being mentioned. You can follow us on socials, late breaking F1 podcast everywhere. you fancy it being.

YouTube is also available. We've recorded this. My camera's about to die, so I'm being as quick as possible, and I have to put up my forfeit on the screen. That's going to be everything. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage.

I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.