The Late Braking F1 Podcast - The biggest surprises of the 2025 F1 season so far!

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

The LB boys count down their Top 5 shocks of the season! They also break down McLaren’s title-winning campaign, react to Domenicali’s latest nonsense remarks about F1's younger fans, and wrap up with a game of Back and Forth... >>> LAST FEW TICKETS left for our 2025 LIVE SHOW in Austin TX! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CLICK HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to grab yours or for more info!

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Well, welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Eid, Sam, Sam, and me, Ben Hocking. There's no F1 this weekend, sadly enough, but there's still plenty to keep us occupied, eh, Sam? Keep us out of trouble. Oh, I don't know about that. I think we'll be the ones doing the trouble, actually, Benjamin.

the F1 trial. Don't know where that's going. Yeah, loads of good topics to chat about just because there's no race, doesn't mean there isn't no F1 chik-chat. We've got plenty for you. All three of us here, Harry, good to see. I can't wait to spend a massive 12 days straight with you in America.

Huge, yeah. This is our penultimate recording before we go to those United States, which we are very excited about. So, yeah, it's going to be good fun, but not as fun as this episode is going to be. What are we talking about, Ben? Good question. I will get there in just a moment

because this is time for the first warning for you all. This is warning number one. No one's allowed to complain at us for this because this is your first of a couple of warnings. There will be an episode today. You're already listening to this, so you can probably tell. There will be an episode on Sunday.

There will be a United States Grand Prix preview next week, but it is a live show. We haven't mentioned it to this point. We've left it late this year, but we are doing a live show in Austin, Texas for the preview. It will be out a day later than you normally would get it. So it will be out on the Thursday rather than the Wednesday. And hey, if you're in the area, if you go into the Grand Prix

and you're not already coming along, why the hell not? There are still tickets available. So make sure you get on that. And then the weekend structure will be a little bit disjointed. We'll still have a race review that will come out again a day later on that Monday, but there won't be a sprint review. There won't be a qualifying review. So that's what's happening in the next two weeks.

That's your first warning. You'll get another one. Mark your calendars. Last year, everyone just started to make jokes about it and pretend to get it wrong. So I know that's going to happen again this year. Well, that means they understand. So that's fine.

We'll take it. But back to this episode, we've got a game of F1 back and forth coming up a little bit later on. Some more comments from our dear leader, Stephano Domenicali. Thank you, Sam, for saluting. A little bit on McLaren having wrapped up the Constructors' Championship.

But let's start out with an old classic top five list. This is a good opportunity to take stock because we've only got a quarter of the season left. Top five list of surprising or biggest surprises of 2025 so far. We've left this intentionally vague. So we can go for particular moments in a Grand Prix, maybe something off track. Maybe it's a team, maybe it's a driver, maybe it's a particular Grand Prix.

Could mean we get some very different lists here. Could mean that they are all the same and that's how it always goes. Sam, what's number five on your biggest surprises of 2025 so far? Just how much our dear leader hates the youth of Formula One. Big up the youth. Not Stephanie, don't know, can't we? I hate the youths. Yeah, seemingly throughout this season,

He has blamed all supposed problems on people under the age of, I'm going to assume 25. That's young, isn't it? So you're all wrong. You're the cause of the downfall, according to Demeiakali. Can you get on with it, please? Yeah, there's been a lot of strange conversations going on in the media with our dear leader, and it does feel as though we might be starting to see a shift in the landscape of Formula One.

And you know what? That was quite shocking for me, the way that's come out, because it feels like with the new regulations coming out in 26, with the 11th team joining, with the fact that we've had quite an array of race winners and different storylines throughout this current set of regulations, there doesn't really feel like there's a need to try and shake things up to a ridiculous level. They've made some simple and good changes,

like, you know, simplifying the language in the media, try to educate people around it, bringing in people from the F1 film. There's a lot that's gone well. So that was a big surprise to me that someone as vocal and as important as Domenicali has felt they need to really kind of lambasque the youth in the media and say that, hey, F, I've got a change because young people hate it, apparently.

So, yeah, that was a big shock for me. 25, that's young. Said Leonardo DiCaprio. I think it seems like old, mate. Yeah, sorry, yeah, over the hill, right? He's broken up with us all. Yeah, we're moving on. Number five on your list, Harry.

It's also Steve Sunday, Stephanie Domenicali, but my surprise is how he's started saying more annoying things this year than Mohammed Ben Silliam, almost. That is a surprise, yeah. Quite recently. I think he's just letting Stephanie Domenicali take the heat for a bit, which is probably the wisest thing Mohammed Ben Sillam's ever done. Yeah, I assume of something to what you're saying, Sam,

I just, every time at the moment, and as you said, Ben, we're going to get on. some more comments in a minute. Every time he opens his mouth lately, I'm like, what are you doing, mate? Yappa, yapper, yapper. Shut it, please. Whole bag of shush. Over here.

Yeah. Zip it. It's just a bit of a shame. Unexpected, I think it's probably why it's just surprised me because normally he's not really over the years been that sort of person, I would say. It seems to be pretty level-headed. And I'm not sure, quite sure why this is started to come out. way. So yeah, pretty similar to Sam's, but just surprised at Stefano Domenicali this year.

Number five on my list. It's not a Steve Sunday trio. Liam Lawson gets two races at Red Bull. Two races still, it's still ridiculous even now. I appreciate Red Bull haven't ever had a reputation for being generous with time with some of their drivers. But even if you look at and compare him to some other drivers that have race for Red Bull and the past. Albin got 26 races, Ghazli got 12 races, Kaviat got 23. Again, Liam Lawson got two races. And it's not like Red Bull started this year in dominant fashion. Vastappen on pure pace probably should have been third in Australia. He was fourth in China. So it's not like Vastappen was winning either in these Grand Prix by dominant margins. And even if he was, again, it's two races for a guy that had done what? A dozen

Grand Prix before stepping into the Red Bull at the beginning of that season. I just don't know what they were, even if you disagree with the decision for him to be there in the first place, which I did. If you're going to commit to someone, commit to them. At least let them know that you've got their back to find out whether they're your guy long term. What Liam Lawson got instead was an FP1 or Australia that had two red flags, an FP2, an FP3 session where he had a power unit issue qualifying a wet race and that's that's 50% of his time done

he then goes to china which is a sprint weekend so only has one free practice session and then he straight into qualifying and races again and that was his lot it was just even now two races is baffling sam number four on your list for me it is papaya rules is number four on my list I thought we maybe come to an end of this where we entered the season. And we didn't know just how strong McLaren were going to be. There was, of course, suspicion that they would have the fastest scar and they might go into defend their title. We're now at a point where we understand how that might happen.

We'll get onto that later on in the show. But the intensity and the strange soap-style drama that seems to be playing out across team radio and the storylines that come out across social media, and folks, this is why you should take social media with a real peach of salt. You know, the scenes of them celebrating on the podium at Singapore, and you can see Landon Norris in the back,

but Oscar Piastri isn't there, and you just think, think of the optics. Just think of the optics, you're posting the photos, and the championship leader isn't there. And then they also did another post on social media, where they were like, our team champions was to capture something like,

that. And Lando Norris was the league photo and then Piastri was second in the carousel. And whilst it shouldn't really mean anything, because of the drama that's been created between these two, people are now reading into it. Why is Lando in front of Piastri in a photo reel? He's the championship leader. You wouldn't have been there without on or the other. And it's just such petty, silly drama that you want to roll your eyes at and go, oh, shut up. And it's just extended well beyond anything I expected to go into this year. I really thought that they would have learned their lesson, communicating a little bit bigger

and realized they got away with it a bit last year and they need to get it right because I think they might be at risk of annoying one of these drivers more than they realize and that might come to fruition soon. So I am surprised at just how prominent a storyline this papaya rule situation has been this year. What have you got number four, Harry?

I've got Cadillac at number four and my surprise that they officially entered Formula One, well, I mean they were next year, but that happened this year because I think for quite some time it just looked like it was never going to happen. It's a happy surprise. We're very pleased that it's happened.

But yeah, it was still a shocking one, I think, because the amount of discourse around Cadillac not entering, there's not enough room for 11 teams or now there's not enough room for 12 teams, etc., etc. There was so much negativity around it that was coming out of F1 that I thought we probably were never going to get there and I did think they might be

being sort of played as a pawn in the match between Stefano Domenicali and Mohamed Ben Sillian but happily everything got squared off they binned off Michael Andretti because F1 and hate him for some reason and still don't know why no idea and yeah we

luckily means we get Calilac on the grid and Sergio Perez and Valtrey Bottas next year back on the grid. So all smiles all round. At number four, I've got, what you can also call a positive surprise, I've gone with a team, Williams.

They were ninth place last year. And in the last seven Grand Prix of 2024, they scored one point. They had one did not start, and they had six retirements. It was an awful end to the season for Williams. In fact, they were last in the Constructed's Championship

in those seven Grand Prix. So you could think going into this year, there isn't a lot in terms of regulation change. We know they're fully focused on 2026. It was likely going to be a bit of a battle to the race to the bottom between themselves, Salber and Hass probably. Instead, Alex Albin had three top five finishes in the first seven races. To put that in context, they had three top five finishes in the previous 175 races. They started strong this year

and they've just had consistency across a lot of different tracks they had double points at Saudi Arabia, Miami, Imola and Monaco that's four races in a row. It's just been great to see because it's something that's been missing from Williams for a very long time.

Sam, number three on your list. Number three for me is very similar to you. I've gone with a positive surprise and it's a team and it's Salba. It's the difference between Salba last year and Salba this year. And I've got the feel about Bautry Bottas in this instance because I do think that maybe not the podium is Silverstone

because that was a little bit kind of in the moment, but the results that Holgerberg is able to be attained so far in this Salber, you've got to think that Valtry is capable of picking up those points in those moments and being fighting around those top tens where Holgerberg has been and you'd argue with Valtry's very strong qualifying record, there's a chance that actually some of the success that Borselletto has had, who you might see on the list for, later on, he has more opportunity to have a more successful season. So I do feel for Valtry, but the way that Ball, uh, Wheatley, sorry, has helped turn around this team.

And Audi must be thinking, right, we're moving in the right direction. We're starting to go in the right way here. We have a competitive team. We're not the slowest on the grid. This is a real turnaround because I was expecting to see some mild improvement, just at the back, but close. But to be so regularly scoring points and picking up a podium and both drivers regularly in the top 10, many Q-3s,

than I ever expected is such a turnaround. I really wasn't expecting to see the lean green fighting machine actually challenging in the midfield. And it was great to see. Yeah. You know, after those first seven or eight races, it looked like a continuation from 2024. So to see that turnaround has been something special.

Very nearly put them on my list as well. It's that positive surprise. Harry, number three? Already been sort of mentioned, but I've written McLaren's stupidity. they have surprised me and how stupid and annoying they've been this year despite the fact that they've wrapped up the constructors and have a very, very good chance of wrapping up the driver's title as well.

Like you said, Sam, the papyrals, but just in general, their attitude. And Ben, you mentioned this on the qualifying review. Just the radio messages that they say are so cringy and annoying. Why? Ron Dennis, I'm not saying it would be better. But Ron Dennis must be, I bet you can't watch it, like, furious about how they operate now as a team. Now, I know they're winning, so you can't fault them in that regard. But, you know, welcome back Lando.

Grow up. Yeah, it's just all of that. The way they've handled the Piastri Norris Championship battle so far, it just for, I know McClaren, even in the Ron Dennis days, were very guilty of sort of over-engineering everything, but this is like, extreme and ridiculous. So that's been a big surprise to me because I just didn't think. There was a little bit of it last year,

but it can be much worse than that. Oh, it was worse than that. Oh, boy, it can. One of those few times where the sequel is far worse than the original. You wouldn't get that with Shrek. Big up Shrek. No, no.

I don't know what I'm disappointed. Number three for me, Christian Horner leaving Red Bull. It still sounds odd to say, even though it happened a few months ago, just based on how integral he was to that team for two decades. And that was the start of the team as well. There hadn't been a Red Bull without Christian Horner

until these last two months. And I always felt like he should be under a little bit more pressure than what I felt he was, just based on how that dynasty kind of crumbled. Yes, Vastappan was still doing Vastappan things, but everything else outside of that seemed like it was falling apart. And then he left. And he was just for Red Bull, he was so much more than just the team principle.

He, you would really struggle to put together like a highlights package of Red Bull without significant features of Christian Horner. Number one, because he'd demand to be in it. But secondly, because he has been there for all of these key moments. and it is weird to think that he's not there anymore. And it's weird to think of, it's weird to think of him calling up all of the other team bosses, according to Andy Cal.

So, yeah, I've gone with Christian Horner, leaving Redboard number three. Okay, we'll take a quick break. On the other side, though, we're going to round out these top five most surprising moments of 2025 so far. Welcome back. We'll continue on with our top five list. Number two, Sam.

Number two for me is more broad title. The Rise of the Rookies. I've been genuinely shocked how good the class of 2025 as being when it comes to these newbies. But I want to exclusively pull out Hagera Bortoletto. I think they have been so strong throughout premium. The moment the car was there for Bortoletto,

he was able to deliver, you know, the way he's out qualified Holgerberg numerous times in the last case of six or seven Grand Prix since the Sauber has really really come. come to fruition, many points scorers, great wheel to wheel battling. And the little Rizler, the Boommeister himself, Isaac Kajel, he sat Kajel, everywhere blooming

calling him these days. The Rizler. He is being one of my drivers, if I'm not my surprise at the season when it comes to actual on-track action. He has shocked me at how good he could be in so many different scenarios, dealing with pressure, will-to-wheel battles, especially

after you look at what happened in Albert Park in Melbourne, in the race one, where he'd even make it to the start of the grid, right? He put it in the wall and the bloody formation lap in that rain. You think, uh-oh, we've got a youngster who crumbles under pressure and now look at him. He's thriving. He's annoying that he

only gets P8 in qualifying in Singapore in a racing bull. That's the level of ambition. I love to seeing a youngster and he's delivering on it. So soak it all up while it lasts, folks, because next year he's going to be qualifying his 17th while Max Ostapping wins races because he'll probably be in a red

ball and that is essentially the sixth circle of hell. oof. Number two, Harry. Again, another one that's already sort of been mentioned, but Liam Lawson slash rebel slash Christian Horner, just like that entire chaos. It's like the, whilst it's all chaos, like Max just happened, like keeps doing Max just happened things,

keeps like winning races and stuff, even though everything all hell is breaking loose. I think, yeah, like you said, Ben, Lawson only getting two races, which, you know, the season's long. And you're right, you do sort of forget about, it. Man had two races. And as you pointed out, one of them was a sprint.

The other one was a rain-affected first race. Just no time given whatsoever. The, you know, the shenanigans going on behind the scenes. Obviously, Christian Horner then gets let go. I think Jonathan Wheatley left this year, didn't he? Did he leave this year? I mean, he's joined Salwood this year, but I think it was announced last year. The key personnel that are leaving.

I think we're getting on to one of those later on as well. it's just the general chaos but yet they still with one car still do well that in itself is just an odd scenario and quite a surprising one to see number two on my list

now granted this probably wasn't a massive surprise at the time but in hindsight it is shocking and that is the Ferrari Chinese sprint win because nothing since then makes any sense if you put it alongside that. They struggled quite a lot in Australia to kick off the season,

but it was a bit of a weird wet weather race. And you could be forgiven for thinking there, Hamilton's first Grand Prix at Ferrari, wet conditions. Maybe this car just isn't suited for that sort of race. Let's go to China, see what they do there. It's much better. Sprint qualifying first and fourth.

And Lewis Hamilton, obviously, the first of those two. And you think, okay, Lewis Hamilton's already cooking at Ferrari. They look good versus where they were last year. Here we go. This could be the year.

And if they actually follow through on it in the sprint, Lewis Hamilton wins that Grand Prix by nearly seven seconds. And given it's a sprint and there's only 19 laps,

that's an average of three and a half tenths per lap that he's pulling out on Oscar Piastri a finish second. That's a really good win. That's a really good win for Hamilton. And then,

the next day, it all falls apart and is never recovered since. They've had five podiums since then. Only one of them was a second place finish. They've had 16 finishes between 5th and 9th. And that's just, that's kind of been their season. They ended 2024 so well and it looked like it was going to be another good one. And then it wasn't. You know, with our preseason predictions with both,

with when Harry and I put the Red Team. At that moment, when the Sprint hang occurred, I thought, oh, baby, we're cooking. We're cooking on gas. So I very quickly realized that the gas had ever been connected to the stove. And it was delusion at that point. Yeah. Number one, what's leading your list, Sam?

You both mentioned it already, but it was the Red Bull Christian Horner saga that took place. the downfall of Red Bull over the last kind of year and a half, I suppose, is a fascinating one. And I think it's a classic case of, you know, the rock comes from the top.

It stems down to the shop floor, so to speak. And when Red Bull fell off for the first time, after we had Sebastian Betel's titles that came through, you could so easily give Christian Horner a way out because you go, well, the engines weren't there, Mercedes came in and they absolutely dominated with the new engine regulations. What were Red Bull really to do?

And we, they were the plucky underdog. for years, right? And then they get the new regulations right. And you think, okay, they're back. Well, Christian Hawkins are going to drop the ball like this. Apart from, he dropped every ball in the bag. That's the problem. We'll leave that in an issue there, folks.

He sure did. He sure did. On track, off track. He has... In the air. At breakfast. You know, that could have gone wrong.

Went wrong. He lost all his key person, all the architects that built the culture, the car, the dynamics of that red ball. He was left with essentially like a rotten foundation

that was never going to hold up. And then it all fell apart around him. You know, it was kind of like he was the little piggy in the hay house. All the big wolf had to do was huff and puff and it was gone. Who's the wolf in this scenario?

Hell of my mark. than a wolf. I think Helmut Marco might have been the wolf, the big bag wolf. Not actually Toto Wolf, unfortunately, for that analogy, will be great. Anyway, my point here is to see Red Bull without Christian Horner,

to see them transform from the most dominant season of Formula One's history to where they are now this season. What's going is, if they had a driver who was 10% less capable of the Max Verstappen, they'd still be in the fight

for both championships. genuinely still in the fight, but they can't get anything right so far. It's Max Verstappas talent that's keeping them afloat right now. We make so many jokes about where Red Bull would be in the championship if actually you had two of the second seat and no Max Verstappen. And it's appalling the difference between the two. So this whole season has been a shock, but the Christian Hall and Red Bull saga never saw that one coming at the start of year.

Harry, what leads your list? I'm number one surprise for 2025 so far has for me been how bad Ferrari have been China sprint win aside I know we make a lot of jokes about Ferrari and they often don't deliver but I mean this year has been bad

like truly bad ever since that China sprint win onwards and for the talent they have having this car. I know when we spoke about, you know, preseason and Hamilton joining and this, you know, 2025 isn't the reason he is joining. But given where they were at the end of 2024, almost Constructors' Champions, I think we had, well, me and Sam probably had more than most, but higher hopes than they've

delivered. But, I mean, just looking at Singapore alone, that is, Ben, I think you said this in the race review on Sunday, that clip of looking. Claire letting Hamilton pass or the other way around. Sorry, Hamilton letting LeCler pass and then LeCler probably falling off the road because his brakes are also fried. You're right.

The most Ferrari thing in about three seconds. So yeah, I'm just, I didn't, you know, maybe they weren't going to be world champions this year, but I think we expected a lot more, especially with such a talented pairing of LeCler and Hamilton. And it's just delivered garbage for the most part. so that has been a bad surprise. Well, Harry, you've gone negative for your first pick.

Ferrari have been bad. Sam, you said Red Bull have been bad. I'll bring some positivity at number one. The Holkenberg podium, I think, was the biggest surprise of the year. It's been a long time coming. Carlos Sines previously held the record for longest wait in terms of races to get a podium. And his record was 100,1.1.

races. Second place on that list was Martin Brundle at 91 races. If you add those two together, you would still be 47 races short of the new record held by Nico Holcomburg at 239 races. Only 15 drivers have had a longer career than that weight that Holkenberg had to get that first top three finish. And it came at Salba in 2025. We were all probably thinking if it was going to come, It would be at the future Salba, known as Audi, in 2026. Nope, he gets one this season. I don't even know if this car would rank in his top 10 cars all time. Like, it's not even been a good one for him.

But the way in which he pulled it off as well, strategy was on point, had to make an overtake on Landstrol in the Aston Martin to make it work. And then holding off Lewis Hamilton in. and an albeit slower Ferrari than what we were expecting this year. I thought you got to say slower than the sale, but then. Maybe it was. But he still did a great job to hold him off and claim that first third place finish.

So I've given Holkenberg his flowers at number one. I was going to do it for our top five most surprising moments of the season. We've covered off quite a lot there, but I'm certain there's going to be some that we've missed. So please let us know in the comments on Discord, wherever you can find us. what else could and maybe should have been there. Right, let's, should we talk about our dear leader? He's already got a couple mentions on this episode, but he deserves another one because I know you both love this already.

In an interview with the Italian PasadalbysmT podcast, I know I got that right. It's returned to the subject of so-called historic tracks and their merit on the calendar versus these newer tracks. He said, it's clear that today we're talking about investment levels, very different from those of the past. From the sliding doors of 2020 and 2021 when I came in, affection alone is not enough.

Very poetic. Asked whether there were any hard boundaries in terms of whether a Grand Prix can remain on the calendar based on image or history. Domenicali said, no, in the sense of, obviously, if a Grand Prix has this historical value, it's a plus, but it's not enough. So it's an element that adds history,

and it's important for someone like me who has followed Formula One since childhood, but for the new fans who have Formula One, this may sound strange. But if you look, we have this data because it's fundamental to us, the ability to turn the page to scroll through news, to forget who won last year, is very high.

So for many young fans today, racing in Monte Carlo, compared with the new Las Vegas circuit, makes no difference. Is that why you gave it the world's longest contract, Stefano, by the way? Hmm. Harry, I know you've already brought this forward as a potential topic of discussion.

So I know you're going to have some thoughts on this. Why does he hate young people? Why does he blame everything on young people? Just anything he's saying, well, my hands are tied, guys. It's just what the young people want. I can't do anything about it. a ridiculous excuse. Do you know what's worrying me about this sort of

conversation, this sort of discourse from Stefano Domenicali, it really smells like a thing Bernie Axton would say and I don't like that. No, like burning toast. Scooby-Doo, like it was him all along. Did you imagine his master plan, Bernie Oxy's still in charge? You also need to take off the stilts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, just the, look, I agree. There shouldn't just be, you know, nostalgia and historic, historical relevance alone shouldn't be a guarantee of your place on the F1 calendar. However, it is important. Whether you are a lifelong fan or a new fan, you can't just like get rid of places because they're not investing as much. and, you know, oh, well, so what if they're historical, like, no, the young people, the young people don't care.

It's, it's such a nonchalant thing to say as well, such a broad thing to say, because there will be a lot of young people who do care, even if they are new to the sport. Like, that's what people invest in the sport. It's, you know, we'd be going for 75 years now in F1. That's part of what makes it so special. It's been around for quite some time. And even if you are new, I guarantee that some newer fans will then go back and start watching old races.

We do our historic review on Patreon. Join Patreon if you've not already. But it's an interesting thing to do because it's learning about the sport that you now love. So just saying, oh, well, they don't care because they could be Monaco or Las Vegas. I mean, that's the most stupid analogy in the world. Good as me. But yeah, it's just an irrelevant argument. and it does, yeah, like I said,

with the, you know, comparing it to Bernie Alclayton, it just worries me a bit that Stefano Domenicali and I guess in turn F1 are going down this path of just, it's, it's their way or nothing and just backing it up with not really any evidence. It's like the, the, who likes sprint races,

which I know Ben, Stefno is going to present the data to you any day now. Any, any day. Can't wait. You know what? what, I haven't checked my spam folder. It might have accidentally got caught. It's probably going to meet us in Texas.

That's probably what's happening. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to come to a live show. Get out. Get out of the gate. Signs out. Have you seen these three gentlemen? Not allowed.

But yeah, this, that's the sort of thing that seems to be happening a bit more often. And I don't, I don't like that. It's a bit worrying for me. So, yeah, it's just rubbish, isn't it? It's absolute waffle. from Stefano again. I, for one, Sam, I'm glad that we can now have a rivalry similar to Senna versus Prost or Schumacher versus Alonzo.

Domenicali versus the kids. The issue is with that point, we don't know who those people are, because people can never go and learn about what previously happened in the sport. Why are we celebrating 75 years in Formula One? if heritage and history and nostalgia and records. Irrelevant.

Doesn't matter it. Why do we bother having repeat world titles or world champions? Doesn't matter. You forget. I forgot McLaren. Do you or last year? I don't know. That orange team apparently because I said they did it this year.

But why did they bother if no one cares? The youth don't care, mate. The youth don't care. That's why Ferrari say every weekend at their first and second is they just think that people forget. They do. They go, we're world champions. The next day, they'll forget what happened. Anyway, it's farcical.

It's an absolute load of bullocks, what you're saying, Stefano. I'm sorry, it's utter crap. What you're coming out with? Why do you think these racetracks are here for so long? Because they're good racetracks for the most part. Sure, some might get through, they get a little more basal heritage or a challenge that used to be more plausible than it is now. You know, Morocco once was a sensational challenge

that put drivers to the test and was a unique opportunity to show driver skill in a way that meant you're either hit in a wall or you might win the race and we have had races that are boiled down to that point at Monaco. Okay, it doesn't deliver the way it used to

and I'm having an advocate for saying it shouldn't be here anymore and yet the one racetrack that is regularly delivering boring Grand Prix and you can't provide a solution for you've given like a 15 year extension to so therefore only heritage has played a part in that decision

So why? What are you basing this song? Spars being around so long because it's brilliant. Silverstone has been around so long because it's brilliant. Monsa's been around so long because it's brilliant. Why can't they stay around? Why would you change these? And you know what is the most insulting thing?

You've already mentioned it both of you, is that actually these young people who are getting into the sport, which we were not too long ago, when we were fully investing ourselves into Formula One through our teen years and trying to learn about the history, Well, you're passionate. You go and learn. You go and find out about it.

You understand why things happen and it's exciting. Why did you build a museum that travels around the world if it doesn't matter? I don't understand the logic behind anything you're saying right now. You may as well rewrite history for all sports. If previous records and rules or whatever doesn't matter. It's an absolute load of crap. And I cannot find a single feasible argument to back up what he's saying. It makes no sense.

Sorry, dear leader, you are wrong and your logic simply doesn't apply, and it is actually quite insulting. So a lot of brilliant people who are trying to learn this sport, who are coming into it from many different angles, who are younger and want to become a part of this, and I welcome them with open arms, and you are, you're belittling them, and it's sad. And I really am quite ashamed of how he phrased this answer and use them as a scapegoat because I think it's poor. Yeah, it's pretty disrespectful from...

Domenicali, I agree on that. It's, again, references to stats and figures that magically only he seems to have access to. All of this data that we have at our fingertips, it all says this. Great. Show me. I think it's pretty insulting to younger fans, as you've both referenced. We have plenty of people who join this podcast. We have people who listen to this podcast.

We are very lucky to have such a large audience at this point, but a wide variety. of people who have come from. We've got people in our Discord, for example, who have been watching this sport since the 1960s. We've also got people who will introduce themselves and say, I watched a race for the first time two weeks ago for I check it out some more. And we like to be accommodating for both sets of fans.

And F1 should really be the same way. And I know that plenty of those that join our Discord and start to listen to the podcast who are new to the sport do want to go out and search for what has happened before, what has led us to this point. There's genuine intrigue there. As Harry says, we do a historic race review. We have a lot of fun doing it, but there's a reason why we do it.

It's because you're interested about it. And I just think it's pretty insulting for him to blanket term. Every single young person is just only caring about what's happening in the here and now. I will say with a lot of the current circuits that he seems to love, some of the, okay, so you know how, I think we used to do these quizzes sometimes on the old days of drive, tribe. Oh, that's a far back.

You know when you take like a, you've got a photo of a particular part of the circuits and you might have a multiple choice, which circuit is this? And you can kind of figure out which one is. With some of the newer circuits, if you were to put together Jeddah, Las Vegas and Singapore side by side and tell me which one's which,

depending on what the angle is, you might struggle because in the night, on the street circuits of all three of them, they kind of just look the same. And I do think that these circuits that have something unique to them that are distinct, that have heritage, deserve a place on the calendar. And they produce great racing as well. It's not like we've got, he's trying to do his classic thing of framing the debate of old tracks don't deliver good racing versus new tracks that do deliver good racing.

It's not how it often works. A lot of the old tracks still do produce. use some brilliant racing. And I don't think heritage should mean everything. That's why I'm with Sam on the viewpoint that I wouldn't have Monaco on the calendar anymore. It's not everything, but it does count for something. So, yeah, this is classic the Men of Carly, I'm afraid.

Oh, boy. Shall we take our next break? And on the other side, we'll chat through McLaren's Constructors' Championship victory. Welcome back, everyone, to the third part of today's episode. the McLaren Constructors Championship victory. We spent a little bit of time on the race review, Sam, talking about this, but figured that there'll be more time to discuss that today

as they have won the title with six races to spare. They're on exactly 650 points leaving the Singapore GP. That is double what their nearest challenger Mercedes currently has in second place. They've won 12 of the 18 possible races so far this year. And of a possible 36 podiums, they've had 28, not too shabberg. whatsoever. Sam, did this always seem likely to you as an outcome? And did you think that there was a moment this year where you felt like they've probably got this in the bag? I do think they came into the season as minor favourites. I do think that they had just the edge. And you can tend to see that

during a regulation which doesn't change year to year, as this one didn't really massively. that when they finish the season so strongly and they did go on to wing, of course, the constructors, but there was room for them to continue growing. So you think, right, if they can get their heads down and fiddle through a couple of minor difficulties that they had and get rid of the staffing issue, which plagued them so heavily,

they're sure, there's a real chance that they could go on to emulate what they managed to do last time out. What it took me by surprise is how easy it was for them, the level of dominance that they, came into it. With Albert Park, we sat there and thought, all right, it was going to be a one-two. Piastri gets knocked back by the weather. Sure, he ends up finishing a ninth place. But it was a rain-effective race. It was difficult to know what was going on. The form might have been tricky. And then we come to the China Sprint Grand Prix,

and Hamilton goes and wins that. And there's a real tussle for the podium positions. You kind of think at this point, well, they're there, as expected. But this isn't a dominant display. And then what truly happened, in my opinion, is, whilst McLaren settled, they got comfy, Piastri came into his own, Lando continued to deliver, their two drivers and a car, all capable of performing.

Their key competitors, Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, all managed to screw up any opportunity they had in a completely different way to one another. Max Verstappen is doing everything he can, the second seat card delivering, I've already mentioned it, if that second seat was even remotely capable,

that fight for the championship would still be on. McLaren might still win, as I expect to get the start of the year, once we saw those first couple of races, but it still will be very close. You know, I reckon under 100 points between those two teams if they had a second driver right there with Verstappen. Ferrari can't build a car. And what went wrong?

They won two races in a row right at the end of the season last year, and then they changed everything. They changed the way that their brake system works. They changed the way to go from a push. Is it pushed to pull? I think they went to. You know, Hamilton gets into a car in a completely different setup whether he's ever driven.

You think after the spring, okay, maybe he's doing all right. But now it just falls away. And we had the breakage in Singapore, and that was so poor. And then Mercedes are somewhat caught in the middle. The car is somewhat there. Antigelli loses his confidence.

Russell is trying to pluck away in a car that can't ever seem to fully compete. And it means that McLaren are able to kind of just, even with their silly communication issues and some of their weird comms and the rivalry between the drivers, which, to be fair, for the most part, and staying relatively civil,

they're just able to pull away. They're just able to get the job done. So a sensational year, and well deserved to win it this early, but the cards fell in the right way for them. And I think whilst they had a deserved effort, they lacked a true competitor. And I think that's very clear in the points telling.

Harry, I know they came into the preseason as favorites, whether they were massive favorites or slight favorites, I think depends on your interpretation. But was there a point? during the early part of the season or mid part of the season where you thought that they aren't going to get caught.

Yeah, I think it sounds right. In the first couple of races, you know, the hope was pretty still there that we could have a championship fight just given the fact that the Australia was a bit chaotic with the weather and then you get to China and obviously Ferrari were competitive.

Japan after that, obviously, Verstappen wins. So we thought, oh, well, hang on, maybe Red Bull are going to be involved. But from there on, there on in, I think when they have that sort of run started having a run of race wins or consecutively. It was clear that it was clear that they,

they were going to be the favorites. They're going to be the ones to win this. And all to their, all to their credit, I mean, you know, we obviously already pointed out how annoying them, they've been with papy rules,

et cetera. And it's, it's quite stupid. But they, to their credit, they've had the pace of the car, the car and they've, for the most part,

executed from a team point of you have executed races to score pretty much maximum points that they can. They didn't, sounds right in that they didn't have any real competitors from a team perspective, and that's not taking anything away from them. They've just done a better job. Mercedes have been up and down, and obviously when they've been up,

Russell has been there, certainly, as evidenced by Singapore and Canada. Vestappen, again, has been their biggest competitor, there's just one of him, unfortunately. You know, I'm sure Helmut Marco would like to clone him. But there's any one max for Stappen's. He's trying. He's trying to.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's a club. Yeah, he's pretty Googled it. But there's only one of him. So, you know, Red Bulls challenge is just being done by one person, which was never going to be enough. And then there's Ferrari who have, yeah, been pretty poor, as already discussed. So didn't ever have a competitor, but McLaren have just done a better job. and have been domino.

Whereas last year it sort of went down to the wire constructors-wise, this one has been clear cut. And, you know, congratulations to them. All credit to them. And what a remarkable turnaround they've had versus where they were. I mean, look, where they were in, when Zach Brown took over in 2017, or at the end of 2017 into 2018,

like, well, that car had no sponsors on it and was terrible, etc. he is he is built um help build or you know orchestrate a championship a double championship winning team um i saw a picture i think this is on twitter today of the 2015 Ferrari and the 2015 McLaren and they were and the caption was like one of these one of these teams will win uh will be the next constructive championship champions um you won't believe it because as you say they were in a terrible stay at McLaren. So, yeah, full credit to them. They've done it.

It's been a superb turnaround. Obviously, talking about that big turnaround of those few years, even from beginning of 2023 after preseason, you know, Bahrain, 17th and a DNF. Oh, Ben. There is. There is. I actually, on that, I saw a really interesting screen grab.

I think it was from Mika Hackingan at the second half of him in that season. He called it. He went, McLaren, I'm going to be, they're going to be the next car, they're going to be the next one. I saw a really funny meme for all their youth out there. That was, they called me a madman. It was Thanos walking through the water or something like that.

I'll give Mika Hakenen from credit here, fair play. But, but I remember Mika Hakenen, all of your predictions about Valtrey Botas beating Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes. So you know what? You know what, Ben, six, seven. You can't just say that. That's just not how that works, surely. That is how it works.

But how does it work? I don't understand. Harry, you're just not 6'7 enough. You're just not... The youth are forgotten anyway. You're so free four. So 6.9. Got him.

Yeah, that was the end of my point. Roder McClaren. Excellent work. Yeah. Done. Done. Done. S.A. done.

for me, one of the, I don't know, for me it was Miami. And I know that one race by itself probably didn't mean much, but it came at the back of three consecutive victories for Oscar Piastri. And that stretch to me was quite important because coming out of last year, where McLaren still did enough to win the Constructedist Championship, I think we were thinking going into this year, if McLaren want to win it again and be a bit more dominant, Piastri was going to have to make a bit of a jump.

because whilst he was good last year, he wasn't always on the pace of his teammate. This year, though, he has taken that step and that has really helped McLaren. And that consistency winning, what was it, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Miami, back to back to back, that told me something about where he was at in 25 versus where he was in 2024.

Also significant about those three races in a row, Verstappen had poll at two of them, and it just didn't matter. because there was just such an ominous sense from McLaren that they could get the advantage back in the Grand Prix, whether it was early on, late on, you knew that they were going to get by, and that Vestappen couldn't repeat some of the performances of like Suzuki

in the same way at these sorts of tracks. And also, Lando Norris, this is where he had some of his qualifying woes, and he had a bit of bad luck at Miami as well with the start, and he was still able to get back. through the field towards the front with relative ease. I think those three things combined told me at Miami that in the absence of Mercedes or Red Bull having two drivers in the fight and Ferrari doing Ferrari things, McLaren are probably going to wrap this up sooner rather than later.

Sam, what's been there or what has been some of maybe their biggest strengths so far this year? What has set them apart? I mean, I've already listed the fact that their driver lineup is able to fight on both sides. And that helps, you know. They are the only team of these top four. that haven't got a weakness. Hamilton was new to Ferrari, plus it's Ferrari, and again, he was a rookie,

and that second seat at Red Bull has been crypticite for that scene for a while now. But the buildup, the makeup of the car, the security of the car, has been essential. I know that sounds like an obvious thing, but the combination of them being able to maximize long, twisting corgles,

medium-speed corgallers, combined with their ability to maximize tireware is fundamental to their success. They can not only out-drive everyone in pure speed, they can outlast everyone as well in terms of endurance. And that allows so much flexibility with strategy, with the way they go up against other teams. If they are even called out, they've got the ability to essentially heat up everyone else where they're still fine. Everyone else will overheat, the tyres will wear out. They keep going. It's a really

difficult thing to achieve with the makeup of these cars, the way the air passes through them, the ground effect cars. You've seen how tough it is for cars to feel secure and comfortable and the balance is got to be right and they can't get it right but McLaren they've cracked a code they've really nailed it this season and I just think whatever a little bit of magic they've applied to that car that security that has allowed them to then have that longevity is what has afforded them this much success this year yeah I had consistency tires and and medium to long speed corners as kind of the three main things just to hone on the maximizing the sort of tire side of things.

They have just been able to be so patient at certain Grand Prix. I listed a couple of them earlier. Even in spots where you think theoretically, they could be in a bit of trouble. They're just not because of how much they can hold on to these tires. If you think of Miami, again, Vastappen gets polled there, but Piastri was just able to buy this time to make that overtake. And obviously Norris then makes the pass as well.

Jedder, I know Vestappen had a penalty that was coming, but Piastri could just hang two seconds back from Vostappen throughout all of that stint, and as soon as Vastappen gets the penalty, he's able to do the overcut and go on to win the Grand Prix. No issue whatsoever. Spain, they're able to do a two-stop, whereas Vastappen and Coe have to try a three-stop.

And that's kind of what they've been doing all year. It's just doing their thing, knowing that they are better than everyone else, if all conditions, all variables are equal. and it's just forced the likes of Vestappen and Russell at times to try some different things. Occasionally it's worked, but it's not worked enough to topple MacLara, not even close. Harry, a bit of a bigger picture question here, and we've still got six races to go in the season,

so the situation is a bit fluid, but where might this season rank in terms of the best constructors champions wins of all time? Is it right up there? it's not at the top but I think it should be considered it should be considered one of the one of the best ones because of how soon they've won this or wrap this constructors championship up that like I said earlier whilst there's been shenanigans on a driver front as a team they've they've executed it pretty perfectly

and like you said Ben you know have just you know been able to utilize the pace of that car the tire saving at most races to bring home maximum point. So yeah, it probably doesn't, it probably doesn't, it's not respected as much now right this second, but I think with the, with the benefit of time, I think it will be looked upon the same as we've looked at, you know, the dominance of Mercedes or, you know, Red Bull, for example. So it's, yeah, to wrap it up this soon in the year is mightily impressive. It sure is.

I've got a little bit like a touch short of the 2014 to 2016 Merck's maybe a little bit shy of 0-2-04 Ferrari, but not that much. So far to this point in the season, they've scored 79% of available points this year. To put that into some context, 2015 Merck was 86%. 2016 Merck was 85%,

2014 Merck was 82%. And both of those Ferrari wins I listed 0204 Ferrari, they were at 81%. So at 79%, they are not that far off. They would, that figure would belong with some of those Mercedes wins from say 2018 to 2020, which is good going because they were some really good cars. It's more than anything,

it's the consistency and the reliability because they've only had three, they haven't even had technically three, but they've had three instances where the driver hasn't finished the race. Only one of them has come from a mechanical issue, which was Norris at Zamvort. The other two were collision-based Piastri at Baku and Norris at Canada. But they've just been bulletproof all year long, and that's really contributed to how many podiums,

how just relentless they've been versus the opposition. I think it's time for everyone's favorite segment. It's the F1 Fantasy Update. Yay. Yay! Saying yay is 44th gear, because 44th gear is leading the championship on 4,077 points.

Well done to you. Cartuso's still in the mix in second place, 4,045, and then UH 1999. Oh, you've, Stefano Domenicali. kicking at the league. I just know what this game is at 26. He's forgotten. You forget what Epon Fantasy is tomorrow.

It's fine. Well done to all three of you for leading the way. And we've got a lot of people in the league. So there's no mean feat. Winning the Singapore GP, we have just one winner. So often we have a number that share the lead, but someone can have the glory, can have the top step of the podium to themselves.

And that is racing Alpha Tauri with 264 points. So well done. to you. But how of the four of us done? I thought I had a pretty good week. Pretty. But I dropped some spots. I dropped five positions to 50 third.

But the good news is I am the only one that has dropped positions this week. Because producer Kirstie holding down second place up 19 spots to 750 seconds. Great job. Harry Ead, you're, you're, flirting with free figures, son. 1,047th, up 95 spots. He's flying. Come on, son.

That's a great weekend. I didn't know that. Thanks to news. What a great. That's so easy. You don't even know you've had a good weekend. But yes, well done, Harry. And Sam, bringing up the rear,

but improving 23 positions up to 1,257th. It didn't let me play my final fix. What do you mean? It didn't let you? I went on after qualifying, and it was just like no chips available. I've not played it. What did you mean? Why can't?

Didn't let me do it. We're going to change out Piastro for Russell. Didn't let me do it. Yeah, that would have been a good booth. Yeah, well, it would be, quite annoyed. But, hey, how, at least we move forward. Indeed, we do. It's still got six races to go in the season,

so we could still see a change in the top three in the overall leaderboard and indeed in the leaderboard for us four as well. Let's take our final break on this episode. On the other side, it's back and forth. Welcome back, everyone. It's time to round out this episode with a game of back and forth. Back and forth, it's F1. Back and forth, it goes backwards.

Then goes forth, it's F1. Back and forth, F1. F1, back and forth. Harry and Sam will go back and forth on correct answers to a particular question. question until one of them can't think of an answer or gives an incorrect answer. Today I will give you both one strike each. 16 correct answers to this question, which is circuits that Sebastian Vettel has won at twice or more. And just to confirm, we are talking about the circuit here rather than the Grand Prix. So, for example, if it won the European Grand Prix three times,

but at three different circuits, the European Grand Prix wouldn't be an answer. That's even more rude. Yes. So, Harry, would you like to start us off? Big Bud. Oh, that was my first. Straight in with Big Bud. You know that's a correct answer.

Three times he won there, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Also, coincidentally, the only three times the Indian GP was held. Good start. Sam, back to you. Monza. Monza is also a correct answer. He also won there three times in 2008. His first ever win, of course, at Toro Rosso,

2011 and 2013, with the other two. Harry. Monaco. Monaco is a correct answer. Just two wins for him there, 2011 and then 2017 at Ferrari. Sam. Silverstone.

Silverstone is a correct answer. He won here twice. His first was at Red Bull in 2009. He then won at Ferrari in 2018. So a bit of a gap between the two. But Silverstone is a correct answer. Harry. Albert Park.

Melbourne, Albert Park is a correct answer. Three times he won there in 2011 for Red Bull. and then he kicked off the season in style in 2017 and 2018 for Ferrari and oh boy they really screwed that up. It started so well. Sam, that's you. I guess we should call him King of Paul because of how well he did at Singapore. I almost don't want to give you the point, but I'm afraid I am legally bound to.

Kick him out again. Not only has he won at Singapore at least twice, he won here five times the most of any circuit that he went to, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2019. He liked it there, didn't he? He did. Harry, back to you. Yeongam.

Oh, that classic. Exactly the same as Big Bud in that he won there in 2011, 2012 and 2013. So Yeongam is a correct answer. Sam. interlagos interlagos three times

a fun fact about this one though interlagos means between the length 2010 2013 and 2017 I just didn't know if people know that we're coming to a chung chow

in this relationship you're not going to go the wrong way you have to keep saying in there because of all the young people they'll forget that fact every time so you have to say it every time all right I'll do it The new ragging joke is that young people will forget everything we do.

Forget what? Oh, man. What was the joke? Welcome, everyone. This is back and forth. Singapore. 16, correct? In Salagos was correct, yeah, three times.

Harry, it's your turn. Suzuki. Suzuki is a correct answer. He won there four times 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013. Sam. Hungara ring? Hungar ring is a correct answer.

He won there exactly twice, 2015 and 2017. So not one he won with Red Bull, but twice with Ferrari. Harry. Nope. I think that's a race track. Nope.

I don't know. If I just keep saying, sing a little song. Yeah, it always works. It always works. Until it doesn't. Bahrain? Bahrain is a correct answer. He won there four times, believe it or not.

2012, 2013, 2017 and 2018. I'm annoyed because that was the one I did have next. Spa. Spar is a correct answer. He won there three times, 2011, 2013 and 2018. Harry, back with you. Going well here.

Valencia? Valencia is a great shout. Yeah, he won there twice, 2010 and 2011. Thanks for ticking that one off, but because I will never have guessed that. Abu Dhabi. Abu Dhabi is a correct answer. He won there three times 2009, 2010 and 2013. I think you have just two answers left.

Come on, Harry, we can do it. No strikes McGee. That's what they call us. Oh, man. It's Turkey. Istanbul Park. And that's your first strike. Istanbul is not correct.

One strike, McGee. Strikes McGee. No, strike singular. Strike McGee. The McGee family. it's like a pounded. They, oh, God. I don't know

to be some. I can't sit there, man. Um. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. I will choose Sopang. Sopang is a great shout. He won there four times, 2010. 2011, 2013 and 2015,

which means there is just one answer left. You can do it. Waterboy. Shanghai, China. Shanghai is not a correct answer, I'm afraid. He did win there once. It was his first win for Red Bull, but that was it.

Never won there again. That's the tension. It's huge. Yeah, that, well, Sam, you have won, but you do have the opportunity to try and get the last one if you'd like to. I've got two guesses left. I mean, you've won. I know.

You got 20 if you on, mate. Skip to D. I'm a winner. Was it? What was it in that beer, mate? What was in your GMT? This is not sponsored. It was really yummy. Was it Cota?

It was not Cota. He has won there, but only once. Canada? Canada was the missing one. He's won there twice, 2013 and 2018. For those interested, the other two that he's won at, but only one at once were the Nürberg ring. And Catalonia, he only won there once. He had an interesting career, did Sebastian better?

You think with how dominant he was, you have more repeat swings, but it's with that list quite low. he did all right for himself, didn't he? Four World Championships. Just the four, is it, Sebastian? Well, that's going to do it for back and forth, and that is going to do it for this episode. Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here. Folks, thanks so much for listening.

Drop yourself down to that little description down there that you see. There's a little more button and you can click more, more, more. And you will like it. Because in there is Patreon and Discord. and you should join both of them. I don't like and you all like it. I'm just going to come out and say it. Well, you will like this thing

because you should follow us on social media where you can do things such as questioning of a week. Give us a poke on Facebook. Go on. And maybe you can, where did you say you throw a sheep at someone? What is it in that beer? As well.

All right, folks. We'll see you for our Sunday episode where let's face it, could be a disaster, and you'll find out why on Sunday. In the meantime, I've been so much. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Strikes McGee.

Remember, keep breaking late. Good. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.