The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Toto Wolff blasts F1 rivals over 2026 engine controversy

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

“Get your sh*t together”: Ben, Sam & Harry react to Toto Wolff’s fiery message to rival F1 teams over 2026 engine complaints. They also cover Lando’s 2026 mindset shift, a possible Alonso-McLaren Indy 500 reunion, Doohan’s new F1 role, and wrap up with some F1: Order Please. Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get: Ad-free listening Full-length bonus episodes Power Rankings after every race Historical race reviews & more exclusive extras! Don't forget! You can also gift a Late Braking Patreon subscription—perfect for loved ones or your own wish list. Choose anything from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking: You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats! Get in touch any time at [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. The late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Eid, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking on this Sunday episode. Sam, are you looking forward to our one hour allotted broadcast time for for a fun testing. It's my favourite. I can't wait to see a highlights package of what could be endless entertainment

rolled into over than one hour. But no, never. Same as this podcast, if you're not careful, more than more one hour. I have a new segment I'd like to bring in once we bring Harry Ead. So Harry Ead, welcome.

Are you well? I'm going to have to stop talking so we don't have to have with the new segment as way. I didn't think it was a highlights package. I thought they'd just broadcast in the last hour. Yeah, that's what it is. I like that they might not be a car on the track.

Yeah, nothing will happen in these last hours of every day. It's going to be good. I would just like to talk about all the things that Sam got wrong. I think this could be a new segment, and I'd like to think that we should never take anything. I say factually as, you know, no one does anyway, but in case you did, listener, I once said that Portoletto scored zero points,

didn't, mugged him right off. I also said that Colopinto scored zero points also did it. So mugged him right off. Colopento didn't? No, but he did the first year, I said across both of you. So I appreciate you trying to back me up there, Ben. I really do.

You just don't like giving anyone credit. No, it's time to come clean. You're going to tell me that Vastappen has one title in the minute. Well, I thought he did. Well, I need to social with Rosberg. They're the same number of titles, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One and done.

So, folks, see me as a like comic relief, not as a factual library of information. I'm looking forward to our weekly segment of things Sam got wrong. I think we should start I might just bring it across life There needs to be a jingle As I'm as I say it's not a segment Until there's a jingle

Okay, I'll work on that Do do do do do What Sam's wrong? No, because I'll get the lyrics wrong That'll be the joke We're wrong, Sam Great Well, tune in to next

People are just going to shut off the episode Right here and get to next episode Yeah, we're going to have to put it At the end of the episode Otherwise you've got to keep them hooked I know how I'll bring in the clicks Good stuff One of the biggest storylines of the 2026 preseason has been Mercedes and Red Bulls interpretation of the new engine rules.

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolf has now hit back at rival manufacturers telling them to get your... Together, you can fill in the blank there. After complaints were raised to the FIA over Mercedes reading of the regulations, the new rules set the engine compression ratio at 16 to 1 down from 18 to 1. This ratio is measured at ambient temperatures with the engine off. But some manufacturers fear Mercedes and Red Bull might have found a way to increase compression while the engine is running without failing that static test. This is one we've already mentioned before, Sam, but this seems to be the first time where Toto Wolf, at least, on the Mercedes side,

of things we haven't really heard from Red Bull, is clapping back at his opponents. And he's doing so pretty vehemently. He is. Quick question. Harry, what do you think the word is that being blanked out? Get your sausages together. That's interesting. I was also going down the breakfast route.

I said beans. I could have gone get your... I didn't even think to use that. Well, this is funny with the bleep. I like the bleep. Why are you bleeping out sausages for? More beans. Get your sausages together.

Why are we ignoring beans? This is the third time. I'm not beans legend. Disregarded beans, man. I'm like I love things, man. Anyway, yeah, this is an interesting approach from Toto Wolf. I feel like we give a lot of negative comments. So those two bosses who are maybe very reserved in their preseason speeches,

they're, oh, we're not going to go over and out, kind of achieve too much. We're not expecting to gain too much. We don't know how the car's going to work. And yet here, Toto Wolf has come out been quite aggressive in his approach to the ancient development. and told everyone else, get it together. We're ahead of the curve. We're ahead of the game. And I actually think he's done it too soon.

I actually think he's come out of the blocks a little too quick. You don't know where the investigation's going. You don't know if they're about to put another rule in place. And you've not done a single competitive lap of racing yet. It might not actually work. It might massively backfire. And I just think that these kinds of comments, when they cannot be actually backed up by actions,

they just, they're coming around the corner to get you. You're going to get slapped by it, where you go back the other way again. I just think it's not the best way to approach the situation. And the fact that the rumours are coming out that Red Bull had the same solution to this 18 to 1, 16 to 1 compression ratio, but they couldn't quite maximize it. So they dubbed Mercedes-Eing and went, oh, by the way, I've got a little trick.

Did you know that? So, Red Bull. How did you know about it, Red Bull? I don't know. Research, my guy. Through the great van. And they went, yeah, yeah, blame the rules. over here they are.

Anyway, so it might get closed down, which is ludicrous anyway. But I just think, Toto, you've opened your mouth a little too quick here, a little too fast, son. Just dial it back because there's consequences if you speak a bit too soon. I do not think you've got this in play

as assuredly as he thought originally. I feel like we've had a couple of years of Toto Wolf just being a little bit quieter, a little more in the background with Mercedes not as competitive as they were in the previous generation of cars. And then this comes out and it might not be the same way again in 2026. I don't know.

Yeah, it's certainly with some more total confidence, you'd say. It's got double engine failure in Melbourne written all over it. Like it's, and then the inevitable tweet from whoever wins the racing, get your sausages together. Butches everywhere rejoice. Yeah. But I'm with Sam. I, look, the thinking is that Mercedes are the favorites for this season. But again, we've had one shakedown. Whilst they were very impressive in that shakedown, they weren't fastest, though. I'm just going to put that one out there. Joking. They don't have Kim Kardashian to be fair, so, you know.

That's true. Whilst it was impressive, we have only had a shakedown. And I think there's a long way to get. before we have a proper order of who's the fastest on the grid. So I like it. I like it from Turtle Wolf. Kind of missed him a bit. But it's quite early to be coming out and

saying these being quite so punchy because yeah, you don't know what will happen. Maybe they will bring in a rule that will just get rid of the advantage they had. And then he's going to look a bit silly. So I like it but also just

we don't speak too soon. Yeah, we'll see on that. It felt like a bit of a, to me, Toto Wolf has been in hibernation for a couple of years, and now he's come out of woodwork, and he's come out firing on all cylinders, because this is almost the no Michael, no, Toto. This is the check your emails, Michael.

That Toto Wolf might be back with a vengeance. It almost feels like the sequel to this quote, and the expletive has kind of been highlighted most out of this bigger quote. It almost feels like the sequel to Christian Horner's Fix Your Car. Again, an expletive was included in the middle there. It's almost the same sort of vibe of a team that feels like they've fairly gained an advantage and other teams being annoyed that they've missed out on this loophole. But that team boss then coming back to quite adamantly defend,

that team. It's got that same sort of vibe. I like to think overall I've been reasonably consistent when it comes to teams and doing what they need to do to get ahead. Any annoyance that I usually have is directed at the FIA or F1, essentially the governing bodies of the sport rather than the teams themselves. The teams are always going to do whatever they can to have an advantage over their competition. You're never going to stop them doing that. They will interpret the rules, however they can to maintain that advantage. You know, the old adage is if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, which maybe is a bit extreme. But these teams will use a little bit of that when it comes to creating their cars. And it's down to the FIA and F1 to clamp down on this.

It's same as when Cadillac entered the sport, right? And before that, Andretti tried to enter the sport. There was a lot of frustration around that this couldn't get done. And some of that frustration was at the teams. But for the most part, I said, the teams are trying to protect their profit margin, their bottom line. I understand. The issue is F1 and the FIA have given them too much power to essentially veto this. So this is exactly the same logic in that I don't mind Mercedes trying something like this. I don't mind the other teams going back at this. I don't mind Toto Wolf defending it. It's all part and parcel of F1 development cycles. And if it was the other way around, you know if it was the other way around.

And let's say Audi had found this and Mercedes hadn't. It would be the exact same in reverse. Audi would be like, we found this. This is an advantage. It's completely legal. And Mercedes would be the one saying, that's not fair. That's not in the spirit of the rules. Whoever found the advantage was going to take this position.

So I don't get too animated. I understand it. In terms of this compression ratio, and it is something that we've mentioned, few times. It doesn't look like there will be no, it doesn't look like there will be immediate change on the horizon, but there are understood to be talks ongoing about alternative ways of measuring these ratios, such as adding checks while under running conditions. The FIA has been clear that at least once the matter fully cleared up before the start of the season in

Australia next month, so the topic doesn't linger into the new campaign when it wants the focus to be on the on-track competition. Sam, that sense of urgency from the FIA, heavy asterix as to whether they follow through with it or not, does it feel like the right approach that when we do get to Australia, the focus is very much on what's happening on track? We're in a really difficult situation. We've stated this a few times with the way that Formula 1 is a really important moment for its following, especially this new following. You know, I've sold F1 Hags who had been around for 30 years ago, not 30 years, Scott. in the 20s anymore.

We will stick it through, right? If the saying has come out two seconds faster, we've basically been there before, we'll ride it out, we'll get through it again. But these new followers, the people who are becoming obsessed with Formula One for the first time, if it's in a completely unerventful season

with this whole set of regulations, as I've stated before, Formula One runs a real risk of boring new fans of going, oh, it's dominance, I don't want to see this. What if you hate George Russell? What if you hate Kimmy Anting Ellie? And they're one-two in the championship,

but one two and every race because it's engine power, you put off a lot of people. It has happened before and it could happen again. But they have to weigh this up with a fairness of their own rule set that they put out into the world where the wording is very specific and it states a measurement at ambient temperature. Now, that's a rule that they wrote. And the wording is the important point,

because the likes of Adrian Nui will basically review the words of the rule set to go, how can I maximize this? Where are you evaluating this? and they can't chop and change back. It used to just be followed at all times. In the new rule set, it's now at ambient temperature. They would need to change the rule set back again to state at all times for these engines to suddenly be illegal.

So that's a real issue they're having to overcome. It's becoming difficult for new fans and new followers to follow along with. If you're not basically studying news reports are going into the actual FIA rule set, we don't want the story in race follow of a new set of regulations to be, oh, Mercedes, I'm willing, because half the grid thinks they're cheating. It's not a good news story for Formula One.

It's not a good news story for the FIA. And it must be so frustrating for the likes of Mercedes and possibly Red Bull, who have found a loophole in there that, in theory, following the wording of the reports, is entirely legal. Now, whether that changes or not, we're set to see, but they need to make a decision sooner than later and a timeline of when it's going to be implemented. Are these legal? Do they get to keep it?

I don't really care. Is it illegal? How have they got to change it? Again, I don't really care. They just need to solidify a timeline of where, when it needs to be followed by and when it has to be implementing on track four as soon as possible.

Otherwise, it could become very costly and unfair for the teams that have managed to find Seg loophole if it is a problem. Harry, can you see the FIA introducing a running test and if so, would it be fair to Mercedes and Red Bull to do this sooner rather than later? I can see them introducing it. I think they are, I think the worry is that

if this is this advantage that Mercedes had, if it is big, they don't want their shiny new rule set to be dominated heavily by one team or maybe two teams. And as they've said, they want to be cleared up before the start of the season, which I'm in favour for because, as Sam said, even as F1 fans of 30, you know, 30-ish years, even I don't care about compression ratios, to be honest. Whoa, take that back. I know. Shock. Shot horror. But so for a

casual fan, it's going to be a tough one to keep up with. So I hope they do get it sorted. I am a bit torn because it's in the DNA a Formula One that teams and engineers find these loopholes in the rules. It's happened before.

You know, look at Braun in 2009 with a double diffuser and that obviously got ruled as legal because it was a loophole. It wasn't something that they'd done illegally. They just, Ross Brown found a founder in the wording, ironically once again, found something that meant that they could exploit this loophole in the rules. So it's part of it.

However, I don't want it to be at the detriment of F1. I think that broad example, probably it didn't matter as much in the end because of the likes of Red Bull and McLarenfroy, all caught up within the year. We could be set for something much more dominant than that with this Mercedes Mercedes compression ratio thing. So I'm bit torn. I'd like for them to clear up,

clear up the wording beforehand. It would be unfair on the likes of the saves and possibly Red Bull if it does get changed. But then we've seen it before. Things get changed during, you know, we've had like flexi wing test changed mid-season. So I'd rather they did it now than middle of the year.

So in that regard, I respect the FIA for doing that. So I've been thinking about this one quite, a lot as to where I stand on this. I am overall in favour of the FIA introducing these dynamic whilst running tests because I think it is a clearer, a better indication of whether a team is breaking the regulation or not. And again, this comes down to how you're interpreting the rules because you can either view the rules as the compression ratio needs to be 16 under ambient temperatures or the compression ratio needs to be 16 and the way that we will currently test this

is at ambient temperature. I read it as the second of those two rather than the first. Therefore, I think that the Mercedes, if it is taking advantage of this, is illegal. And if the FIA wants to change its test to better judge whether a team is breaking it or not, I think they are entitled to do so. The one thing that makes it a little bit less clear is that the These tests aren't done by the FIA. These are tests essentially created, developed by the teams, with the FIA coming in and approving it or not approving it. So whatever Mercedes have done in terms of their tests, the FIA have already said, yeah, that's fine. So now for the FIA to turn around and say, that's no longer fine, you could argue that there should be a grace period there rather than if the FIA was doing all the tests in-house.

But overall, I'm of the opinion that I think the best metaphor I can come up with is this. If you're going down a motorway, and I'm not endorsing this at all, folks, if you are doing 90 miles an hour down a motorway and you do that every single day consistently, day and day out for like a month, and you know there is a police car that sits at the very same point on that road and you slow down to 70 miles an hour as soon as you see that. And then the next day, let's say that the 50th day that you do this trip at the exact same time, they have, for whatever reason, decided to park one mile before that. And you weren't ready for that.

You haven't accounted for it. And you were doing 90 miles an hour through there. You pulled over by the police car and said you were speeding. If you turned around and said, I thought you were going to be a mile further on. I didn't know you were going to be there today. You wouldn't get away with that. And I think it's the same thing here. Just because the test might change, it's the regulation that you need to abide by.

And at the moment, if they are beyond that 16, I don't think they are. Biden by that in any condition. So I don't know how costly it will be. I don't know when they'd introduce something, but I'm more on the FIA side than I am, Mercedes side. Again, though, they could have been clearer about this, no doubt. They just need to make sure they're giving the team's time because this is currently set to affect 12 of the 22 cars

that are going to be on the grid in Australia. And if we suddenly see engine failures on mass because they've had to adapt their engine within a month of the start of the season, because they were trying to be clever, and like you said, Ben, whether they are breaking the regulations or they've cleverly interpreting

a different wording of it, this could see mass hysteria for a lot of teams if they go, well, our engines don't work because we're a customer of the saying is or we're Red Bull power train, then suddenly you've got 12 cars who can't get around the track properly because it doesn't work properly.

It's, they're getting it down soon or rather later to ensure that we do get to Australia with a level playing field, not that we get to Australia with one group having a serious advantage over the other, if that makes sense. Yeah, we, We'll see what happens.

I do wonder if there's a member of the non-Messedi side that's going to step up to be the ringleader here. We've heard from the likes of James Kia Audi and Cadillac too, but none of the, we haven't heard it from a Freddie Vass yet. Like who's going to be the big hitter that comes in for the other team? We'll see. They've got their 8 to 1 compression ratio.

Freddie Vass and Ferrari aren't doing compression ratios. Zero to zero compression. It might, it could be flab that comes. in not realizing what engines got. We make our own engines, don't we? This Mercedes outfit, they are... So, we have Mercedes power units? When did we sign that contract?

I don't remember that. I don't remember that. I'm glad that this has circled its way back round to Flav. I knew that was going to happen at some point, despite him having nothing to do with this conversation. We're going to take our first short break on this episode. On the other side, we're going to be chatting Lando Norris. Local news.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to conicsonterio.ca. Welcome back, everyone. A bit on Lando Norris here because he's been speaking ahead of the new season, of course, going into this season as the world champion. He said, I just have more confidence because I've said in the past that I'm very much a guy who has to see something to believe it, especially when it's got anything to do with myself. Did I believe I could be on poll at the first time or win a race? When I've done it, then I've gone, ah, I can do it? And I guess the question now is, does that apply to him being a world champion? Sam, do you think, well, see, do you think this will lead to a more confident, more relaxed Lando Norris for this 2026 season? Just before we get on to this, because I love, I love this mentality, but the wording is so stupid. Like, how has he done anything ever for the first time if he can't see that he's done it

for the first time? It's such a stupid way of like, go, I think that I could get pole. Oh, wait, I've got pole. Oh, I could do it. Well, you just did it without seeing yourself do it. How does that make sense? So the Gene has school of thinking, that one is like, yeah. It is. I don't have any friends. How can't make any friends? Well, I don't know anyone, so I can't

make friends. Norris replacing off Conn at House. Anyway, sorry, Lando. I don't mean to poke fun, because I do think there's someone who has been very public, and I think it's honestly refreshing about their mental health and the way they go through these challenges and deal with this. I think it's wonderful that he has overcome a bit of a mountain, and he has got some self-belief, and he believes now that he can go on to achieve really big, brilliant things. And he has already done big, brilliant things. Poulsitter, race winner, and now world champion. And that is sensational.

That's more than I'll ever do and have already done. So, you know, well done to you. And look, we talked to get a second about things I got wrong at the start this episode. I trust you, man. Damon Hill didn't start in F1 until he was like 30, so I think it'll be your eyes. That's true.

So going into his first season as a reigning champion, this is good. This is a good, feel-good moment for Lano Norris. He should embrace the success. He should overcome the fears that he have previously you say, I beat Max Verstappen, I beat Oscar Piastri, I maximise what I could get out of the whole season and I won a title. And there's only so many drivers that can say they've won one, Max Verstappen, Nika Rosberg,

across many others, you know, who have gone to swing many, many more. Max Verstaffin's actually won more than one title, just by the way. No way. Sorry. But he's not the same as Niko Rosberg. Yeah, they both have four. Now it is actually spreading. misinformation. Good. So, go into this new season, whether the car is going to be good, whether

the engine has got the right compression ratio, whatever it may be, but go into this new season feeling like you can be the best of your team and get the most out of the car. I do think that's a great attitude to have. That's the kind of attitude that I think great in this sport have always had your shoemakers, your Hamilton's, you bestappans. They believe that they can do it. They believe they can be better than everyone else around them. Hopefully Norris has start to believe that fully in himself too. Harry, now that Norris is a... a world champion, he'll see that number one on his car throughout the entire year.

Do you think that will lead to a slightly more updated, upgraded version of Norris? I think it's entirely possible. Yeah, the dodgy logic aside, I get what he's trying to say here. And we've seen it in the past, I'd say the same for in some way, Max Verstappen, you know, not the one-timeer champion,

but after he won his first one, he kicked on from there because whilst he was brilliant in 2021, there were still some questionable, questionable things he did, slash not great performances. And from 22 onwards, I think he was more relaxed and was even better until we have the, you know, the maxed-up end of today. So I think it's often is the case when the pressure of that first one is lifted. um first title was lifted off a driver that they can just then kick on and be be better because

a lot of the time drivers perform in the car way better when they in a you know have a relaxed mentality versus being you know under the stress of trying to win a championship so i can i can see it i can see it being a even better year for for norris um and all because or because he does have that number one in the car again i don't know the wording but I understand Lando. We understand Lando. Don't worry about the rest. We understand here at the like breaking podcast.

I think it will lead to a more confident version of Norris. I imagine this new version of Norris, like even when he's been winning in recent seasons, you know, the title obviously last year, but races, individual races as well, there still has been this element of a certain weight on his shoulders, both an internal and an external pressure you feel on him until, he's accomplished this. Now that that's gone, I think he might be in a really good spot. I think he did a very good job last year, to be fair, down the stretch, when there was a lot

of pressure on, particularly around his victories in Mexico and his victory in Brazil as well, because at that point, it was still maybe marginal advantage Oscar Piastri and the driver's championship. We had Max Verstappen very much making a comeback at that point as well. Yet Lando Norris was the driver in those two Grand Prix to sort of separate him. himself and give him that buffer that he'd need over the last few races because there were a few moments later in that year that I'm not going to say he'd crumble because that's far too extreme but there were a few shaky moments if you think about Qatar and you think about Vegas turn one

you know there were elements of maybe this pressure is getting to him but overall I think he did do did do a really good job but we might see even an even better version this year like now that he's got over the hump. And I do think weirdly, seeing that number one on the front of his car, I wasn't sure at the time whether he would take the number one, because it is optional, you don't have to do it. Lewis Hamilton, of course, never did when he was world champion. I first assumed he might not take it just because of the branding of the number four

that he had. But actually, the more time goes on, the more I understand his decision, because I do think it is a bit of a reinforcement thing for him. It can act as a bit of a target, like a bit of a bullseye of number one on your car, like, that's the guy you're going for. But for Norris, I think it might be a positive impact of just, yeah, having that reinforcement. The thing I hated most when Lewis Hamilton was world champion. You wanted to say the one. Why wouldn't you?

Is it something you won for all the champions? I think it's a mark of respect. It's a mark of achievement. I think it's really cool that you already get it when you're the champ. You can't pick it anyway. You've got to do it. I'm glad that Norris did. I hope that.

I'm glad that Max did it and now obviously changed his number anyway I just think it's cool having the one on the car is a really cool unique thing absolutely irrelevant question which of course

you'd only get on the late breaking podcast if you have a single digit number can you elect to have zero in front of it like you could have done it before like could you have zero seven instead of just seven I don't know

I guess why couldn't you you can't like thinking NASCAR I think that happens You're hanging MotoGP as well. Yeah. But I don't know the answer to my question. Yeah, great chat.

Wow. Good. Let's go. Call in. Yeah, that's something you can't do on the show, but please do get in touch. Pick up a phone, just to say it. We will hear it. Sure.

Harry mentioned a couple of names that won a sort of mentioned Vastappen, who won a title for the first time and what he was able to achieve after that. I was thinking about this in particular because there haven't actually been many instances of a driver defending the title after winning it for the first time recently. Like you've got Vastappen, of course, Rosbergh, all jokes aside, won it once but didn't defend it. So you have to go all the way back to Sebastian Vettel in 2011 for the second most recent example. But if you were to look at those, do you think they provide any sort of a template for how this season could go for Norris?

It's so difficult, isn't it? It's so difficult. We're going to a brand new set of regulations. I just like to think that he'll be able to elevate himself regardless of where the car is. We've spoken about how Charlotte Clare, George Russell, are able to get a log out of a car even when it's got at its best.

You know, we've seen Russell pick up a couple of wings last season. The Clare regularly sits himself right on the front row. You look at his pole to win race. I can tell you that in qualifying, he exceeds what that Ferrari is capable of. The podium count also explains itself. Landon Norris has done really well against teammates historically, and he's not being in a regular race-walking car

up until realistically the last kind of two seasons. It'll be interesting to see, one, where that McLaren sits and two, how high up the pecking order he can put himself if the car isn't up to standards. The criticism that Lewis Hamilton often gets is, oh, he can't do it in a car that isn't good enough. You know, all of his titles came from him basically being in a car that was quite dominant.

It'll be interesting to see if Landon Norris can almost get rid of that moniker and actually take on a, hey, even when he had the four fastest car. He's still won a couple of races. He was still on pole position a couple of times. The car wasn't there, but Landon Norris was. That would be interesting to see.

So it's hard to go if it will follow the same thing as, you know, Button, Nessel, the Staplet of course. But I do think there are things that he could do to really raise his profile and go, yeah, I'm a worthy champion. Yeah, I was thinking back to the last couple of examples of where this has happened. Harry, you've already mentioned Max Verstappen. I kind of concurring that after he won that title in 2021, that felt like a floodgates are open kind of moment

because from the start of 2022 onwards, he won 41 of the next 54 races. He just went on this absolute tear for about two and a half seasons. But similarly with like Sebastian Vettel, it felt like 2010 was maybe the year that when he won his first title, Weber could have got him and Button could have got him and they didn't.

And then we saw machine like Sebastian Vessel in 2011 and 2013. weirdly, Jensen Button is actually the last driver to have won a title for the first time and not successfully defended it. Again, we're not including Rosberg, not even attempting to defend the title. We have to go all the way back to 2010.

But even Button, like, he came out of the gates with a new team as well, of course. He won two of the first four races in 2010. So I think these are three recent-ish examples where having been a world champion, I think your confidence is elevated. It could well be the same for London Norris. But if we're playing devil's advocate, Harry,

is there any chance this goes the other way? He mentions in this quote as well that he might relax his rules about friends and family coming to races now. Is there any chance that complacency sets in? I mean, maybe. I don't see it that way. I think he's still fully focused on the job.

And I think letting friends and family come, that was, again, that was the pressure of that going for that first title. Like I said, now that he's got it, not that he's not bothered. I think it's just he knows he can do it. And so it's okay to have a few more friends and family at the other racetrack. I don't think he'll become, I don't think he'll become complacent. I think that confidence is just going to push him forward.

It obviously all depends on where that McLaren lies because he could be having his best year ever. if I don't think we're thinking the clowns can be bad, but if there are other cars around that are better, then it won't necessarily matter. But I think that we won't, we won't know that until the season starts, obviously. Indeed. I think, I don't think you'll get complacent

because I think there is a bit of a difference between the hunger that he still has and the desperation that he might have had last year. Like hunger is more about drive and sort of being in control. And it feels like even though he is making this decision potentially to have more friends and family to change up his weekend routine possibly. He's still the person in control of that.

If he wants to scale that back or increase it further, he is the person with the power, the self-responsibility to do that. So I'm quite encouraged by those words. And the desperation that I think he's had a little bit over the last few years where you feel like maybe he's chasing, he's a little bit desperate,

that might well disappear a little bit. Sam, any chance of complacency? It's always possible. The only example I can really think of, and you know, you might be like I think of others, is James Hunt, where he won that first title, and kind of was like, I've done it. I'm the world champion, I've won.

Doesn't matter what happens now. I've never really went on to do anything majorly successfully Formula One again afterwards. And it's not like other drivers having only won one title, but they have tried. They've really got... Hunt is almost famous for kind of winning that title and being like,

hey, I can live off this for the rest of my life. I've done the thing I dreamed of doing, and I've done it, I've completed it. I don't think Norris is of this ill. I don't think of this mindset at all. Sure, he might relax things. I think he's got his family around him who seem incredibly supportive, and that's all I'll say on that. And he's also got a big group of friends who seem to champion him.

He's got his partner who seems to be very publicly supportive of him as well. This is great. These are all good things to help lift you up, get you through tough times. If the season is rubbish for him, you need those people around you that have faith and have outright support for you to go, look, look what you did last year. This is a one-off. You've hit a low. We rebuild, we do it again.

I think that's positive that comes with friends and family, as well as possibly a chance that some complacency might sink in. But I'd be surprised. If in doubt, bring your icky dads to the race. Yeah. You know what? You don't get far about an icky dad in your life. This one goes out to all the icky dads.

You know what? In life, be a Jackie X, not an ick. Nice. That's very profound, Benjamin. Because you do have a choice between the two at all times. Jackie Hicks or an Ike. What gives you the X? It's going to be a new F-I going to be a new F-I-N-Sate.

Yes. A new game. You can be the X. Ick or X. You're going to have a busy, busy rest of the weekend, Sam, all these jingles you need to come up with. We've got where Sam's wrong, we've got this now. God.

Yeah. By the way. I did live it on a prayer on karaoke yesterday. I've shredded my vocals, so I can't even. even do this. You know, they'll be out of that. He's all going to be out of the chame.

I'm sure you nailed it. I was going to say that you mentioned James Hunt. As soon as you mentioned him in relation to his career not kicking on, I can only think of that last scene of Rush. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, one of the best bit of music. It's up there with the interstellar bit of music. Oh, yeah, incredible. So good. Right, let's take a second break on this episode. on the other side. The main event, Shack doing.

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That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Welcome back, everyone. Before the break, I promised you the main event, that being Jack Dewin, and we're delivering. We're talking about Jack doing because he's got himself a new role with Hasse. He's joined Hass as the team's new reserve driver for the upcoming season. The 23-year-old is seeking a return to a Formula One race seat after being dropped from Alpine's lineup just six rounds into last year's championship.

The team formally severed ties with Dewan last month. Duan said, Hass is the ideal place to continue my Formula One career. He's been named as one of the two reserve drivers alongside Rio Hirokawa. Harry, is this good news for Duhin and for Hass? it's good it's good news for doing he doesn't have to be mentally tortured by Fabi Brio anymore so that's good

yeah it's a it's a sensible move for doing for for Huss why not have a why not have another driver on your reserve roster I don't think it's a bad thing at all

if you're asked about an Ocon you must be getting a bit sweaty and thinking history is repeating itself if they replace him with doing I'm done I'm like I'm removing myself from the podcast. I'm not doing it.

He follows him around. He follows him to every team that O'Conn goes. I get sacked before the last race. Yeah, no, I think a sensible way for doing, you know, we don't know where O'Connor and a bearman are going to go in the near future. I think we'd say that they're probably going to stick around unless anything completely crazy happens further up the grid. But it's good to, it's good to.

have a backup. And whilst Jack Duhin's very brief career wasn't amazing, he also was only given six races. So we don't really know what his true potential. True potential was. So I think obviously the move away from Alpine was yes, good. I mean, I know he had to see out the year there, I assume that was contractually obliged to.

But the move away had to be done. I think him hanging around potentially hoping for his seat back would just would been damaging for him and his career. So the move to Hass is a sensible one. And who knows, who knows what might happen? Oh, on me, he'll have a terrible year and they do replace him, but I'd sense is unlikely. I think this is a pretty solid move for Hass. It's always useful to have someone within your ranks who has recent F1 experience, even with the regulation change. I think that's quite important. Rio Hirokawa, of course, successful in his own right, but not in F1 hasn't ever competed in the sport.

And you might think, well, Dewin's career wasn't exactly brilliant at Alpine. How useful could he be? Well, actually, like, there is a string of drivers who you might look at and say, well, they didn't have a great F1 career. But just having that experience is valuable. So, like, Joe Guan Yu has bounced around a few teams as a reserve driver. Pretty useful, given his recent experience. Jovanazzi, of course, as well.

Danny Kaviat stayed quite a few years after he no longer had an F1C, Mick Schumacher, who we've already mentioned on this episode. It is really useful to have this sort of a driver. The other factor that hasn't been mentioned yet as well is that there might be an opportunity for doing because Olly Behrman is sat there on 12 penalty points. If you get 12 penalty points, folks, that leads to a race ban. And we know that it's a 12-month rolling system, so the points only get wiped after a year. and he will be on 10 points until at least at the end of May.

So that's six races where if he picks up two points, he will serve a race ban. And after that, it's not until I think the beginning of July that the next four go off. So really the first half of this season, a bit of jeopardy for Oli Bem, which could give doing the chance that he wants. And again,

you'd rather have someone who was in the sport as early as last year or as late as last year than someone who's never been in. in before. I also think from Duan's perspective, it's a good move because this might sound harsh. It repairs his reputation a bit possibly in the F1

circle. Being dumped out of an F1 seat after six races, regardless of whether it was fair or not, does do some damage to your reputation. And one of the reasons that it might have happened was the practice crash he had at Suzuki last year. And the reason I mentioned that

is because he was supposed to be, or intending to do super formula this year. He did a test at Suzuki, three-day test, and he crashed on every single day at the same two corners, at the Degmas, which maybe he should just never do Suzuki. I'm not sure. But again, and he was passed over for a seat, maybe relating to those crashes. He needs to repair his reputation a little bit, not only in F1, but motorsport more generally. Doing some good work for could go some way to doing that. Sam? Yeah, I mean, that isn't a good look for anyone, is it crashing three times in a test session?

That's good ideal, as we say on the show. It goes up against Rio, as you mentioned, who Japanese driver, but quite old for a reserve driver in Formula One. I think he's 31, 32. I think so, 31, which, you know, it doesn't feel like the odds are in his favour for getting some kind of permanent Formula 1C. He's being around, he does a lot of GT racing, he's done, I think, some insurance racing. but of course it's Japanese

and the Japanese have a direct link of course now to Toyota who are coming in strongly with Hars and I think that's where that leak kind of sits and I think that's as far as it will go for Rio unlike Jack Dewan who I think he's like you mentioned Ben more cover for Olly Behrman

but not necessarily for the penalty points more for the fact that if Ferrari is a total misery and they do lose a driver in the next 12 months Behrman is likely to be the guy that is promoting into that seat and takes a Ferrari seat in the next 12 months they need someone who can step in

in short notice and could do a job. Now, doing, I think, was dealt a really bad hand. He had to pick up that Al-Ping in the last race of the season when it was really, really rubbish. Well, of course, after Ocon got fired, and then he did those six races. And we saw how bad the Alpine was last season. Gassely performed a miracle,

picked up some points, but Colopinto, who took over from doing, struggled. Had a couple of good races, but struggled mostly for the season. So it was really tricky for him to make any sort of good impression on the motorsport community and the Formula One community. When the car was so bad, he has to crash.

He said booting out. He can't rectify it. It's difficult. I know this is great for him. I think Harser picked up, if I'm going to be honest, and quite brutal about it, a cheap, solid option that could come in at a moment's going to do a job. I think if, again, something really weird happened at Ferrari mid-season,

I think that's where Dewan would maybe get the opportunity. If at the end of the year, Berm and Ork on left, I don't think Dewin gets a looking. I think they go to F-2. No, I think he passed over immediately for an F-2 driver. or for someone who gets dropped out of their contract elsewhere on the grid. Yeah. I know we've got two extra seats on the grid now versus what we had last year,

but we are still in a world where three of the last four F2 champions have never had an opportunity in F1. So to give someone a chance who's, I know it was a brief time in F1, but to give someone who didn't win the F2 championship another opportunity, it's a hard ask if you're Jack doing over some other. It's upcoming talent. He's 23 for goodness sake, but it's the way F-1 works, right? So many years left in his life, and I am so old.

Yeah. Doesn't it feel that way? Let's move on to someone that we can look at as old, and that's Fernando Alonzo, even if he doesn't see himself as old in any way. He still thinks he's 25. Because Zach Brown has said he would like to do an Indy 500 reunion with Fernando Alonzo at some point. Zach Brown called it something that he keeps bugging him about.

Do you think Colonzo will return to the Indy 500 one day, Harry? I think so, yeah. I think he still wants to give it a go. Because he did 2017, which was very, very good. And he was in contention for the win. So his Honda engine ironically blew up. They also went back again at 18, but we're in no way prepared. and it was terrible and he didn't even make it.

So, I'm sorry, not 2018, 2019. Yeah, yeah. Because he was racing in 2018 because he didn't want to miss the points. I'm pretty sure he said for that championship. Yeah, he was so close to it. And I'd say, thank God he turned up. Oh, so I think there is some unfinished business. And I'd love to see it.

I'd love to see him have another crack at it. And you look at the likes of, you know, people who've won it. I'm thinking, Henry Castro Nevis, for example. He was quite old when he won it the last time. So I don't think age is, I mean, not that it ever would be for Alonzo, but I don't think age is going to be an issue. It would be obviously something he does after he does hang up his F1 helmet and racing boots. Because I'm not sure Asty Martin would appreciate him racing a McLaren funded IndyCar.

but yeah, I think in the future I could see him doing it once again. Sam, do you think there's a chance he returns? I'd love to see him do it. I think the ever desperate, Fernando Alonso for pure racing glory will see. I think him and Max were staffing are very similar in the sense that I don't think whilst Formula One is kind of bare holy grail, it's not the only achievement that they could go after. And we saw him with insurance racing.

That was a real passion for him. and he was successful there. I think he'll want this IndyCar title, the 500, of course. But you're right on age front, you know, Sir Scott Dixon, as he knows, of course, was knighted in the August. He's won many an Indycar title, and he's in his mid-40s. Kastrian Evans, really mentioned, is he's older than that and he's been successful. There's a real chance that he's probably got another maybe five or six attempts

at going for this Indy 500, especially if he steps away from Formula One at the end of this year, It will give him a lot more time to prepare, to be involved in Indy car. It would be really interesting. I don't know if McLaren's the right team, though. You know, it'd be interesting. I feel like the relationships were a little bit sour because of Henry Times, he's been back and forth with McLaren. It'd be interesting to see him go with like an Andretti or like a Chip Canassie

or something like that if the opportunity came alive for him. And I think he's got the prestige and the interest for it to possibly be an option for a one-off race. So we'd love to see him try it, how it comes about. I'm always. I think he'll return. I don't know whether it's with McLaren. I don't know when it is, but I'm pretty sure he's going to, it's an unscratched itch, right?

He's, he's had a go. He's come close, but we know what Fernando Alonzo's like. I don't think he goes away without at least one more chance at this. You've already referenced, I don't want to demean oval racing in any way because I absolutely love it, but it's not physically, you can do that older than typically you can. you know, just regular street racing, track racing, whatever you call it. Like, we've got Kastronovas, you've already mentioned, he was 50 when he did the race last

year and you're right, he won it just a few years ago as well. AJ Foyt was 57 when he ran the event in 1992. And Alon Sir Sr. won the event in 1987. He was 47 years old. So there is an opportunity for Alonzo to still do this. It's more doable if he hangs up his F1 boots at the. the end of 2026 and then commits himself to it. But even if he doesn't, I think the appeal of having Alonzo in your team might give him opportunities for the next few years, because experience-wise,

he hasn't got a lot of it when it comes to IndyCar, but typically teams like McLaren will run an extra car just for the 500. And I'm not saying they're purely looking at it from a marketing perspective, but it does help. Alonzo has the skill as well, don't be going to be wrong, but there would be a lot of buzz about Alonzo returning, that McLaren and Zach Brown would definitely not say no to. So I could see this happening. Guy thinks he's 18 years old. He'll probably try it.

I mean, you look at Sato, right? He won it, what, 2020? He was in his early to big 40s when he won it. Sure. Two-time winner. I do think there's a little bit of arrogance when it comes to Formula One drivers taking part in Indy car. I just think he should commit more.

If he's going to do it, commit more time to it. Do it properly. Go out there and, I can't believe I'm saying this. Be like Marcus Erickson. Actually go out there and compete properly. Do it, do it properly. Even if it's just the ovals for a season,

go and learn the tricks of the trade. Don't just rock up for one race and go, I try and win the Indy 500, win the Triple Crown winner. I think you've got to give it a little respect. And I'd like to see a lot. So give it the old or Lisa Franklin. Fernando Alonzo doing a full Indycar season.

I am sat. I am seated for that. I'm signing. Hungry and ready to eat, I think is how you'd say it. Oh my God. Please. I want a universe where that exists. Feed us, Fernando.

Give us the full season. Of course, one area of motivation outside of Alonzo likes to win things is that he currently has two thirds of the motorsport triple crown. And if you're unaware, folks, that is the Monaco Grand Prix in Formula One. Alonzo's ticked that one off the list. The 24 hour of LeMont, the endurance race again, he has achieved that. and then the Indy 500 is the third leg that he's yet to do. He's one of only two active drivers who have two of the three completed.

The other one is Robert Kubitzer? No, he went monaco, did he? No. Or Mr. Chonky? Yes, one Pablo Montoya. Is he still active? Well, yeah, half active maybe. Montoya, of course, has one monaco as well.

Montoya was always half active, but we will. Unless he's on a tennis pitch. Very active in tennis. he's won Monaco and the Indy 500, but he's missing the 24 hour of LeMont. So anyway, that could be added motivation. Harry, do you think the Triple Crown still means maybe as much now as it once did? Yeah, I think it's that Alonso likes, he, I don't think he's got a fair claim to it, but he likes the title, the idea of the title of being the most complete driver there ever

was or ever has been and I think that would really help cement it, not in just in his head I mean, it already is cemented in his head but it would help cement that in the wider public I think because it's hard to argue against a driver that's won two world championships

the DACA and then has triple ground as well. As he won the championship? You know, he won them on, but they win the overall season? as well. Good. I think he did. It definitely would be one of the Toyotas, right, if it wasn't. Yeah, because he was in that period where it was just Toyota basically on their own. But yeah, I think, I think that is something, whilst publicly he might not say it by in his head, yeah. He'd love to have the triple ground. Yeah. I think maybe it's not spoken about as much now as it was

previously because newer fans to the sport will probably just look at F1 drivers and see they only do F1. think that's the way it's always been. Definitely not. Like, you go back to the 50s, 60, 70s. These drivers, whilst competing full time in F1, the calendar, of course, much more condensed and much shorter, had the opportunity to do loads more series. Like, if you pick out someone random, so I just picked Jim Clark. Like, he did four 24 hour of Le Bonn races. He did five Indy 500s. He did British Saloon Car Championship for multiple years. He did the Tasman series in Australia, New Zealand and he did F2 as well, like, as well as doing a full-time schedule in F1 in the mid-60s. So you just don't get that nowadays.

So that's why I think maybe it's not spoken about as much, but I think Alonso would absolutely love to be the only, only the second driver, of course, to have this achievement after Graham Hill so many years ago. I think this probably still motivates him. I really think that that's the biggest negative to the Triple Crown is because only one person has won it. It's almost forgotten as an accolade because they're, new people coming to the sport, don't realize that it's a technically a thing, I suppose.

My biggest ick about the Triple Crown is that McLaren branded themselves as the other instructor to wing the Triple Crown. I hate that, I hate that, McLaren. Got a lot of love for you, but that, I hate. For them they did the livery. They were like Triple Crown winners, McLaren. I'd erase this from my memory. Oh.

Not a fan. That and Magrring are in the Bing. Another thing that can get in the bin is people who say that the Formula One World Championship is the third leg of the Triple Crown. It's not. It's the Monaco GP. Yeah. Come on. You are just wrong. Yeah.

Before we go to our final break, if you had to rank the legs of the Triple Crown. I would go. Am I ranking the amount of impressiveness or entertainment? How important they are, like. Okay. The prestige of each one. Monaco is the lowest. Yeah, it is.

Significantly the lowest. And that's not even hating on Monaco. You could pick any F1 race to be that member of the Triple Crown and it would be last. I would go Lamon in 500 then, Monaco. Top to bottom. Yeah, I mean, it's 24 hours, man. Yeah. It's a lot of racing.

The only issue is, of course, Lamong is a team event. So you can get out of the car. Yeah, but that's even more like it's more risky, isn't it? Because it's not just you and the car. You've got to rely on two other people to not mess up your buses. If Fagando could go back and do the whole 24 hours alone and win, then I will. Of course he would.

And to give it a while. It's like I was asleep for hours 14 to 17 in the car, but I was still leading. The thing is, I prefer F1 to Indy cars, much to love Indy car. And I prefer Indy car to endurance racing. And yeah, Harry's answer is right. That's the great order, I think. I think I'm with you.

Okay. Even though it's the one I've watched last, the three. There's a lot to watch, isn't it? Yeah, I'd rather go. I'd feel like rather just go than watch it on the telly. Well, you've left us with no choice. We're gone. Let's take a final break on this episode.

On the other side, order please. Back to the final part of today's episode. It's time for. for F1 order please. Whether it's a can of Coca-Cola or a lump of cheese or we're ordering drivers by the size of their knees this game is full of facts just you wait and see this is Formula One, order, order please

Six questions in F1 order please There are four parts to every question that I'll tell the guys to order in a particular way They'll give it a go and if they get it right they get a point But if they get it wrong the other person has a chance to steal, the point, but there is a danger in that because if they do try and steal it and they also get it wrong in a different order, they lose a point. We're going to start today with Harry. What number would you like? I'm number four, please, Ben. Number four, I'm going to give you four drivers. I want you

to list them from best to worst in terms of their average grid position in their career. I thought you were going to say his opinion. In my opinion, your four drivers are Charles LeCler Oscar Piaastry Mika Hacadon and Jensen Button go blind me

from best to worst I will go oh Charle Claire is the best quote end of point Yeah, Charlotte Claire first, all the best.

Next I'll go Oscar Piastri, then Mikachnan, then J.B. Juba. No. Sam, would you like to try and steal the point? I would like to steal the point just for banter. I'll just swap the top two over. Piaastri, then the Claire, then the other two that Harry's saying in that order. you did have to change one thing.

Good thing you picked the right thing. Yeah. The old bait and switch got me again then. I just realised I forgot Charlotte Cleathered a year at Salba. Yeah. And also 2020 exists. Yeah. Fair enough.

He did do one year at Salbert. And even with that, this still. really close, but Oscar Piastri is first. His average grid position is 5.91, Lecler 6.3, Hackanan 7.07, and Button, exactly 10. So that is the... A long average driver.

Yeah, right? Right in the middle of a grid, J.B. Imagine, imagine there's teammates not score as many points as that guy. Over what time period? Over their entire time as teammates. Wow. The famous timeframe that we always use.

I like you, Harry. I'm freaking right that statistic. So irrelevant. Sam, what number would you like? Number one, please, Ben. Number one. I'm going to give you four drivers again. I want you to list them based on most to least

number of NASCAR cup races they've done. Oh, for crying out loud. They're all F1 drivers. Great. This is going to be a pure punt. You've got Jacques Vilneth. Good. Kimmy Reichenen. Danny Kviyat.

And Juan Pablo Montoya. Okay. Let's just pick names out of a hat here, guys. I'm going to say, Juan Pablo's done the most, then Kiviat, then Reikinen, then Vilnove. This might shock you on what was such an easy question, Sam. That is incorrect. Oh, wow. I'm devastated. Harry, would you like to try and steal that point?

It's a hard no, Chief. Yeah, I didn't really even need to ask that one. You were correct in saying that one Pablo Montoya has the most NASCAR Cup races of those drivers with 256. Then there's a sharp drop off to Jacques Villeneuve in second with six. You've then got Danny Kviyat with exactly three, and Kimi Reichen and his last with two. Nice.

huge career for those lots. Yeah. Gosh. They were in close competition for a while. Yeah. Big names going from F1 to NASCAR, folks. We're back to Harry. What number would you like? Number six, please.

Number six. Four drivers again. Most races for Williams. So your options are Alex Albin, George Russell, Nigel Mansell, And he's back again, Shaq Philanav.

Righty. I'm believing you. You know Williams. Feel the force of your father, Harry. Dartheid. Most, I think, Al-Botto. Then Russell.

Hang on. Yeah, I think that's right. then Dr. Nige, then the other one. What's called? The most undeserving World Camposal Tigers. What's his name? The other one. No, well, that can you, Blake. The score stays at 1-0. That's not correct. Sam, would you like to try and steal another point?

Yes, I would like to steal another point. Can I have it, please? You're going to have to work for it. Damn it. Now, I remember you really just simply recently saying that Alex Album this year can become the leading driver for Williams. So with that knowledge in the bank, I know you would never wrong me then. But he could still be first of this list. It could.

But I believe that Mansell is top of the list and he's got to take it from Mansell. So I'm going Mansell, Albon, Russell, Chavreve. You have to start calling Sam George Russell because he has become the bird. Burglar. Yeah, Mansell is the person that Albin will be taking the record from. Mansell has 95 races for Williams, which it's insane that no one has done 100 races for Williams. But here we are. That is mad.

Albin is second at the moment with 90 and then comes Russell with 59 and Villeneuve with 49. Sam, I appreciate you only like stealing points and not winning them on your own serve, Would you like another number? Sure. I'll have number three. Oh, you'll love this question. Good. Everyone will love this question.

Four 50-50s. I'm going to list four races from the 2025 season, and I want you to list them from fastest to slowest. I hate this question. But we love when a race is fast, you know, maybe the fastest race of all time. Less F1 is how I love it, yeah. Get it over with faster.

Your five races are the Italian Grand Prix. Which one? These are all 2025. Oh, yeah, okay, sure. The Singapore Grand Prix, the Chinese Grand Prix, and the Austrian Grand Prix. Oh, it feels too obvious. Something about that feels too obvious. We're doing fast-hitting overall...

Overall race time. Thank you. Okay. Not like top speed achieved or something. Okay. I fear I am being duped. What happened? There's something happening

in those races that may be altered something. I mean okay, let's just go, I'm going to say, Italy, Austria, China, Singapore feels too good to be true. Because it is. Yeah, you've managed to suss it out

this time. Really thought you would double blotting me there. No, the Italian Grand Prix last year. Fun fact. Fastest race of all time. Don't you love that fact, Ben? I love that fact. An hour 13, if you care, I'm sure you don't.

Austrian GP is second, an hour and 23. Chinese GP an hour and 30. And then Singapore GP an hour and 40. Harry, back to you. Number two. With your chest, son. Number two is absolutely fine. Number two.

Four drivers, I want you to list them from oldest to youngest, please. Your drivers are Nick DeVries, Pierre Gasley, Lans stroll, and Rio Harrianto. Oh, absolute curveball.

That's terrible. Which one's the curveboard? Because it's not Harrianto. No, it's Pierre Gassely. Yeah. His Nictor-Nidthrease is just seemingly old, isn't he? Yes, he's 73. Not that this will help you out, but it was actually his birthday when I did this quiz on Friday.

It's also Pierre Gassie's birthday. Yeah, Pete Gassel's on a birthday of the weekend, I thought, yeah. They're actually going on the same day. That's the real test. I'll go... Then there's Harrianto. God. knows how old Rio Haryanto.

And then there's Harrianto. God knows. Let's go. Let's say Rio Haryanto is the oldest because he's an enigma. It's ageless. Yep.

And then we'll say then we'll say Ghazley, then DeFries, then stroll. No. Some. Three for three on stolen points? How many points have I got in total?

Three. Okay, so I can't lose if I lose this point. No. Okay, I just want to make sure before I get this wrong because I'm going to try and steal it. But good, okay, it's a big thing for me to wiggle with a place, okay? Harry Anto, DeVries, Gasly Stroll. John Berker's going to lose his voice.

Harry Anto's 33, Nick DeVries is 31. I've got down here that Gassley's 29, but he might well have turned 30 after I did this question. Okay, and Landstrol was 27, which leaves Sam number five. He was so young. I know, how is he 20? Yeah, I don't get it.

Yeah. That's unbelievable. I enjoys the social media posts, which showed the Larkstrol and Frando-Longso, one of them being like the legendary Frando and the Young Stoppable or something like that large stroll And I just like to know when he was unspeful Man

Are they trying Like that social media person is trying And I respect you a lot I know a lot of F1 drivers That have stopped land stroll Good Good Number five left for you Sam

Yes please Four teams I want you to list them based on how many employees they have. Sure. Okay. Your options are. Currently or what? As of last year.

Right. As they're the most recent figures I could get. You've got Hass, Racing Bulls, Mercedes, Williams. Okay. Mercedes, Williams, Racing Bulls, Huss.

When is your day? It's your day. Goodness me. Might be the most he's ever been played. Yeah, Mercedes, a little over 1,200. Williams at 1,200, exactly. Racing Bull, 700, has 3. I thought you just to stop at 3.

Has. It might be right. Yeah, well done, Sam. That is, by, with respect, it's not your favourite game. I hate it, actually. I respect. in ordering of the games. That is the last one.

But you've come away with a dominant win this time. If you wouldn't mind, Sam, getting us out of here until Wednesday's episode when I think we have Pimp My F1 to do. Exhibit's going to be here. Oh, I can't wait to bring Exhibit onto this show. Regular guest and fan. Not the UK version of Pimuth.

He's not coming on. No. No. Okay. Who did that, Harry? He might be up to other activities. Who did that, Harry? I think it's called Jim Bestwood or something.

I don't know. Jim Westwood. I'm really glad that this has made it onto the show for so long. Great. Thanks for listening. We promised it won't be him and it will be. And if we promise you Tim Westwood is not going to be here. I never thought.

We get a shout out on this show, that's for sure. If you were enjoying us in ranking some liveries because we've got the last couple to come out before that episode, they do come and join us. We're going to go through every single one. Have a little chit-chat, do a little thing. It'd be great fun. every year it's a lot of fun. You can get your thoughts in the comments because you pick

ever so kind about our opinions on the livery so far. For us on social media, late breaking F1 on all platforms, join us on YouTube if you'd like to see our gorgeous smiling faces and you can see us even more on Patreon, which is down in the description and disco. You can come have a little chat with us if you'd like. See you then. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking and I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late.