The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Track limits, drivers under pressure & Sebastian Vettel to retire? | Episode 110

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

Just two LB boys this week, but still plenty to discuss! David Coulthard thinks Vettel won't see out the season, is he right? And we talk about the dreaded track limits...Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast. My name's Ben Hocking. Thank you as always for joining us in keeping us company. Harry joins me and Sam, Sam, if you're not a moron, say something now. I can't hear anything. Confirmed.

You might have guessed that Sam, unfortunately, can't be with us this evening. Wi-Fi issues is the actual reason, but if you have a more exciting reason than that, then please do let us know on Twitter at Elbreaking. We'd love to know why is Sam not here today? Who knows? Let us know on that one. I mean, Harry, do you think we'll survive without him? I mean, I think we'll survive.

I just think we'll have a much shorter podcast. I think we'll find out at the end how short this one is. But yeah, without Sam here, there will be no ridiculous analogies, which in truth, we're all going to mess. Exactly. I mean, I would give a few examples of ways in which Sam's points will go into random objects and things,

but they're so random that you can't really even joke about guessing it. You never know. You never know. But regardless, we do have a great show for you tonight. got, we're going to look at some drivers that are under pressure this year, which ones we think, maybe after the first race, maybe that's changed at all, who knows, we'll be discussing that one later on. Track limits seem to be the talk of the week after what happened at the weekend, so we're

going to weigh in on that debate and whether the stewards need to take a different view of track limits generally. But first of all, we're going to look at Sebastian Vettel. An interesting quote actually from David Culfard, of course, 13-time race winner in F1. In an interview with Formula One news, he said that he just doesn't see how Sebastian Vettel is going to rediscover that mojo of his. He did say that he's an asset to the team and a safe pair of hands, but he suggested that if Lance Stroll can do to Vettel, what LeClaire did to Vettel at Ferrari, Seb might not finish the season. So, Harry, what's your initial reaction to that quote? well i mean first of all

i've had this weirdly the same conversation with my so my dad and david cullthard the comparison right there is a strange one but they agree on this one my dad also thinks that uh... sub uvettes not going to finish the season which i was like don't be ridiculous but now dc saying the same thing so maybe my dad is actually right thank you thank you there they go dad shout out for you on the podcast anyway um yeah i look i don't i don't know when with this article was dated. Was it after the first race?

Was it before? I believe so. I believe so, yeah. After the first one, right. Look, it wasn't a fantastic race for Seb in Bahrain. I think we can all agree there. I wouldn't, you know, I think it's a bit too early to write him off in the sense that

he's not going to rediscover that form. I think what's difficult is so that the Aston Martin, you know, isn't necessarily the same car. It was last, I mean, it is the same car, but the same design around the rear end, shall we say. It's got the same issue as Mercedes in the low-rate cars, so-speak are struggling this year. So I think that's a factor in why Seb struggled.

But I think it's quite early on to write his chances off of rediscovering his mojo this year. I don't know. I think it's a difficult one to call. Whether he'll return to the levels we saw in... 2011, 2013. I think maybe that's unlikely. I don't think we're expecting, you know, championship winning levels of Sebastian Vettel.

But I think he can get to a place where he's, you know, he's a solid, quick driver again. I mean, we saw, it wasn't that long ago that he was, you know, 2019, he was still getting a couple of poles. He got winning that Ferrari. Again, it wasn't his best year, but he's still at the speed there. So it's not that long ago that he was still being a good driver. driver. So, you know, I think it's easy to forget that, perhaps. But, yeah, look, I think I'll

give the benefit of the doubt. I think it would definitely see out of the year. I don't think Lecler, I don't think Stroll was going to do what Lecler did necessarily. And we know Lecler is God, obviously. So he makes people feel bad about their driving skills. But yeah, I think it's too early on to say that Seb won't finish the year. If we're here in six races time, things haven't improved, then I'd say maybe that's more likely. But for now, I will give him the benefit of the doubt, I think. It would be strange timing, even if he did end up losing out to Landstrol. Obviously, we don't know what's going to happen between those two guys for the rest of

this season. But it would be peculiar timing to move away from Formula 1 or to move away from the team directly before what's going to happen next year. Of course, we know that the regular. changes are happening next year. We know that Aston Martin have a very definite plan to not only contend for a championship, but win a championship within the next five years. And admittedly, the last team that made that prediction was Renno, and that's going gloriously well.

But, you know, they have clear ambition there. So I think that Vettel is invested in the team longer term than one season. And I don't think it would serve him particularly well to, to take this one season, walk away, and then just sit on the sidelines as Aston Martin potentially improve next year and the year after that and then maybe do go on to at least contend for the championships, but maybe even win them as well.

You know, Vettel's definitely still got the hunger to win titles. All the F1 drivers have the hunger to win the title if they've got the opportunity to do so. So from Vettles' perspective, I think he will at least stick out this season and actually next season as well. well. Maybe if things aren't better in 2022, he reconsidered. But I would be, I'd be pretty surprised if he walked away.

And I don't, I don't like to go against Harry's dad because he's a knowledgeable man. But I'm going to have to on this one. I'm going to have to on this one. Sorry. In terms of his mojo and his general pace, you know, you're writing what you say, Harry, that it's race one. And you really shouldn't rush to too many conclusions after. after just one race.

And ultimately, from Aston Martin's perspective on this, you have to look at what they were getting with Vettel and also what they were giving away. And when you look at both of those things, it makes sense that they wouldn't give this up after such a short period of time. So first of all, what are they getting? They're getting a four-time world champion.

They are getting a driver who has been out of sorts for the last couple of years. But, you know, they fully understand that that is what they're getting. And then, you know, you're never going to be able to write all of the wrongs on that first race weekend. There's going to be bumps in the road. And Vettel, you know, it's down to him and it's down to the team to work that out as the year goes on. But if you're expecting race one, a driver who was already out of sorts at Ferrari, goes into a brand new team and suddenly isn't out of sorts. I think that's expecting quite a lot.

And ultimately you have to look here at what Aston Martin were willing to give up to get Sebastian Vettel. They were willing to give up the driver who has got their only race win in the last 17 years. They were willing to give up, you know, if you're going back to other forms of the team, of course. But, you know, they're willing to give up a driver who, of the last 10 podiums they've got, he's got seven of them. They were willing to give up Sergio Perez. He was the most experienced driver for a team outside of Lewis Hamilton last season. He's the only driver that had been there for the entirety outside of Hamilton for the hybrid era. They were willing to give all of that up for Sebastian Vettel. So a few bad results and they're just going to get rid of him or his mojo's not bad. They have,

they need to do their due diligence. They at least need to find out whether his mojo's there. I think at the moment we are uncertain. Is the old Sebastian Vettel still there? Yes or no? And I don't think anyone truly knows the answer to that question. And the only way you're going to find it out is by giving him time and letting him work it out himself. So I'm intrigued to see how it goes. I think Vettel's there for at least the medium term. I don't think he sees this as a one-year thing. And I don't think the team look at it that way either. And if Sam was here right now, would make some point about Vettel, weird analogy, and then somehow would bring the point around to hating Valtrow Bottas.

That would end the point. Yeah. Something along the lines of, you know, Vettel is very much like a kind of Bueno, you know. It's really uncanny. And yeah, Valdry Bottas can't stand the go. We jest, we jest, of course. Of course we jest. I mean, this Vettel situation, it is only one race.

Do you think, just looking at his performance in Bahrain alone, and we've already said that you can't draw too many conclusions from that race, do you think that it was sort of set in qualifying? You know, he was obviously starting right at the back in a car that he didn't have that many laps during testing. Do you think that it was pretty much a write-off after qualifying? I mean, it absolutely didn't help, did it? I mean, yeah, he started.

He put himself back in kind of contention for the points with his start, because by the end of lap 1 or 2, he was up into 14th. And he was on that really, very Checo-Perez strategy, I must say, on the old one-stop. Maybe they just forgot who the driver was in the car. I don't know. But it looked like it could pay off. He was potentially on course for it.

for maybe 10th, maybe getting that last point spot, I don't know. So, look, it wasn't, I don't, without the incident with Ockon, I actually don't think it was turning into a, it wasn't an amazing race, but I don't think he was turning into a bad race for him. I think he'd done almost as much as he

potentially good could do in that car, considering the amount of time he's had in it, the amount of time he's had with the team. Yeah, look, I don't think qualifying completely set his results for the weekend, but it absolutely didn't help him starting right to the back of the grid

and it was just unfortunate I think that he caught those yellow flags got the penalty but yeah again I don't think we should judge too much from the qualifying pace because we know he can we know he can qualify well he's just got to have the car underneath him so

it's another case of just giving him a couple more races but yeah he obviously won't want to start at the back of the grid too many times because it's not something he does he's had to do very often if we're being honest more so in recent times but yeah

he's just obviously going to want to have better Saturday I think better weekends in general because I think they had a problem in practice on Friday as well so I just need to a clear weekend will help massively I think

yeah I think I think the best thing for Vettel during the weekend was getting that 55 laps complete you know regardless of the result that he was able to at least get some laps under his belt and get that experience that

you know apart I I think he might have done the fewest laps of any of the drivers in in preseason testing, which is never, never something you want, but particularly when it's your driver that is new to the team, that makes it even worse. And yeah, I mean, like you say, they've been plagued by these issues, really, since the start of the season. And, you know, I think overall, yeah, you're right what you say. It wasn't shaping up to be an awful race. Even if he wasn't on course quite to get P10, he was definitely on course to finish around that sort of alpha Romeo P11, P12 or so.

Of course, Esteban Ocon, who he collided with, was the next position after that. So, you know, he would have been in and around the points, even if he wasn't quite there. And ultimately, I'm not, I'm not certain he was on a great strategy as well. I know it was a different strategy. I think ultimately what they had to do, because it was pretty clear it was going to be a two-stop race for all of the teams, you know, when Pirelli, the graphic comes up at the beginning of the race, and it's not always entirely accurate, but both of the recommended strategies were two stops. And I think ultimately they had the choice.

They could either go for the one stop or they could go for the three stop. They had to do one or the other just to be different. And I think the one stop before the race actually made more sense, because, you know, starting at the back, it just makes more sense to stop. less. That's just how it generally works. But I think as the race unfolded, it actually appeared that the three-stop was probably quicker than the one-stop, as well as the two-stop being quicker than the one-stop. I'd be very interested to see what he would have been able to do if he was on that three-stop, actually. I mean, it's first of, first of all to say, I mean, that it's brilliant

that we can discuss all three of those strategy options as being viable. Like, 2012, where are you? Honestly, it's the dream to have a one stop, a two stop, and a three-stop race all be viable, and you've got people, you've got drivers trying all of them. But I think overall, that one-stop might not have actually helped him out there. Yeah, I think that's a fair point. Especially that's kind of where the Columbia collision came from, wasn't it? When he's defending from a car that's faster than him, not to make an excuse for the crash. But if he's on attack, does that collision happen?

I'd say less likely, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, I mean, pros and cons to both. I mean, we'll have to see what happens when he gets to Imala. Of course, it's a completely different circuit. Bahrain lends itself to overtaking much more than Imala does. So, you know, if he finds himself in a similar position, I think a one-stop might be much more effective there. But, of course, Vettel will be hoping that he's not even in that position to begin with,

and he can qualify higher up the grid. I mean, speaking of Bahrain, track limits, lasting advantage is the favourite phrase of the week. Everyone's loving that one. So, as we know, it's been the centre of the controversy this way. The overtake, or the overtake that was, or the overtake that wasn't, I should say, Max Verstappen trying to go around the outsider Lewis Hamilton at Turn 4, successfully getting it done, but off track had to give the position back.

I mean, we discussed the move in our review podcast that you can check out, and we'll be going to much more depth about that move specifically there. But we'll look at this a bit more generally in terms of track limits. So is there a need for the stewards to look at this and to implement something of a standardised approach to this? Yes. Like, for the love of God, yes. Stop, stop.

Letting them do it on a Friday practice session, like first practice. Second practice is you implement the rules, same for quality. Then you get to the race and the rules are different. different again. It doesn't make any sense. I think what makes it worse is that if you're playing the F12020 game, their rules are more stringent and that's not real. So, yeah, why they can't develop that kind of system? Because, you know, say it is like the F12020 game where you run ride three times, do it three times, you get a three second penalty or five second penalty. Just make it black and white

and make it clear that that is what happens because there's so much ambiguity around track limits in general not just that turn-for corner we've seen it all of last year it's all the Sky F1 team

talk about in free practice unfortunately which is a shame but yeah there just needs to be clearer rules because we're ending up in these situations where we have these controversial moments

between the two leaders of the race and I know Max gave it back and it was all fine but yeah it's just frustrating when you see that the lights and I'm not blaming this is not me blaming Hamilton but Hamilton went over that white line 29 times in a row before getting told off and why'd you have to wait for the 29th time

before giving them a warning say don't do that anymore because you're not even on the track by a mile. So, yeah, it's just frustrating. I mean, thank God we're going to Imola, because if you try that there, you will be in the boonies. So that's absolutely fine.

But, yeah, there needs to be some kind of change. And I think they need to implement it from the start of the weekend. Don't wait. Don't wait for, you know, Friday practice and see where the drivers are going off the track. Just say, don't go off the track anywhere. Anywhere you go out outside the white lines, your lap time's invalidated.

Be likely a phone game on strict corner cutting. Please, Michael Massey. Yeah, I mean, throwing it back to this whole lasting advantage thing and, you know, overtakes not being acceptable when you go off track at, say, turn four, but you are able to, as Hamilton did 30 times or so, was able to go as wide as he wants to. And again, I mean, it's not throwing shade at Hamilton at all. He was just taking advantage of the flimsy. rules that were in place.

And I'm sure plenty of others did as well. So, you know, you can't, don't hate the player, hate the game in this scenario. And it's as Martin Brundel on Sky said quite a few times, is that if you're allowed to do that, and that is off track, it is quite a black and white issue, why can't you just skip term one la Johnny Herbert in the Bahrain in the, in the F1 game last year? I mean, you know, why can't you do that? It's just as off track as the term four incident is. And ultimately, if you've got a situation where Vastappen, of course, he tried to go around the outside, left the circuit, had to hand the position back.

So it's deemed he has gained a lasting advantage. But if Hamilton goes over that line 29 times, let's just say, for example, that he gains a 10th every time he does it. So, you know, he's gaining three seconds. overall, who's to say that that overtake doesn't then lead to, you know, a pit stop overtake where there's a difference in strategy. Hamilton comes out a second ahead of the Stappen, this is hypothetical, and because of the amount of times he's cut the corner, he's actually got the overtake done. They wouldn't ask him to hand that one back, but surely it's just as much of a, just as much of a move.

you know in terms of disincentivising corner cutting i mean walls generally are pretty good at that um failing that gravel gravel's fairly good at disincentivising grass is still pretty useful so i i understand that that's not doable at all corners and this is a debate that we've had not only at barrain as well barrain's not the worst one cota probably takes that trophy um in terms of ability to cut the corners but you know you have to find a way to artificially disincentivise them when those physical properties like grass and gravel and walls aren't there and you've mentioned you've mentioned uh the f1 game i've literally got written down here take the codemasters approach and i i know you you've you threw it out there as something

that f1 does where you cut the corner three times and you get a three second time penalty, I wouldn't change it. I would literally implement exactly that. Because, you know, regardless, let's just take the term four incident, for example, you're basically at that point getting penalised one second for every time you do it. And you're never gaining one second every time you do it. So soon enough, the drivers are going to realize, hey, you know what, this is probably not worth it. And they're going to stop doing it. You know, the only reason they're doing it now is that it can gain a little bit of time every time they do it. So if you take that element away from it and you start to give out these penalties,

either they're going to start finishing lower than they think they should do, or they'll stop doing it, which is obviously the aim here. So yeah, I don't say this often, but I think codemasters are probably spot on with this one. You know, just be really, be really clear about it. I think this is an issue actually that a lot of people are over-complicating. It's, this is on track, this is off-track. If you go off-track, this happens. Full stop.

Yeah. Qualifying and practice, your time is deleted. If it happens in the race and it happens three times, you give out the penalty. Whether that's three seconds, two seconds, five seconds, whatever it happens to be. As long as you put that in place beforehand, go for it. it, you know, and, you know, just be clear. That's probably the number one thing is be clear. What is on track, what is off track? Tell the drivers that on the Thursday, if you do this, if you are this much over this line, you will be penalised. And then they haven't got an excuse to go back

on the Sunday and say, well, I was I penalised. We told you on Thursday. So, you know, even if, even if I don't necessarily agree with the penalty that, the, the penalty that, they do. Let's say that, I don't know, they give a one second penalty rather than a three second penalty. Even if I don't agree with the amount of seconds that it should be, as long as you're clear about it and you're consistent with it, I don't care. Just be those two things. I mean, the stewards try and avoid consistency like it's the play, but maybe give it a go. It might be worth it. Good. Well, Nigel, I think the lesson for everyone here is be more code masters. I think that's what we're going to take away from this.

Yeah. It's a solid policy. As we've both said, I mean, it's not really going to be an issue. I'm trying to think if there's, I mean, there's not really many places that you'd gain much time, is there? Nah. Turn one at Algarv. That one could be one to look out for, see what they do there. But do you remember last year at Algarv?

they, was it Grosjean who in the race, he went over three times or something and got a penalty. He got an actual penalty for track limits. Why can we not do that all the time? Yeah, I mean, usually the policy is three warnings, four black and white flags, another warning, then two more black and white flags, and then the threat of a penalty, and then a black and white flag. That's usually the way it goes. Yeah, yeah.

Oh well, for mind. No, my mind. All right, moving on. Moving on to our final topic. Which drivers are under the most pressure to perform this year? And has Bahrain changed that at all? I mean, of the 20 drivers, are there any names that stick out to you that really need to perform this year

where maybe their career or their seat is on the line? There's actually, surprisingly, quite a few when I was thinking about this. Faltry Bottas I think almost every year is a year for him to perform and actually to be fair in a way I think it's almost out of his hands but he at least needs to have a better weekend

than he did in Bahrain I think he can't do that all year he can't let Hamilton and Max be so far up the road because it's only going to prove to Mercedes if they didn't realize it already how much they actually need Hamilton because a competitive Max was happening

could easily wipe the floor with Botas, which is obviously a worrying prospect if Hamilton decides to retire. So I think Bottas needs to continue to up his game version up for the 53rd time, probably now. Who else? Esteban Ochan, I think we've spoken about him before. I think he needs to have a big year.

I mean, the poor guy keeps being thrown bad hands, you know, teammate to Daniel Ricardo, teammate to Fernando Alonzo. And to be fair to walk on, I think the latter end of last year, he was starting to get a handle on that car and was getting closer to Ricardo. And then, you know, the weekend just gone,

Alonzo was, I mean, Alonzo was just being Alonzo. So I don't think Ockon was, you know, necessarily doing a bad job. He just wasn't doing an Alonzo job, which is obviously God-like, along with LeClaire. So, yeah, O'Con is, another one who has to have, we've already mentioned him, Sebastian Vessel, I think he's got a big year ahead of him. It's not necessarily decisive of him whether he stays, but I think, you know,

he'll want to just prove people wrong more than anything else. So, yeah, another big year for him. Who else is going to have a big year? Javanazzi, he's probably the fourth and final one I can think of. Is this his last year anyway? Quite possibly, I guess it depends what old man, Reichen and does after this year, but I would not bet against him being there in 2022. I just wouldn't. I think he'll keep going forever. He just doesn't, I think all he wants to do is drive an F1 car, and he doesn't know what else to do.

So, yeah, that probably, Giovannazzi's fate probably depends on that, but he needs to prove that he's as quick as or this year quicker, because we saw him beat him in qualifying on occasions last year. So, yeah, I think they're the four most likely candidates. I can't think of anyone else. Yeah, I'll go with those four. I mean, just to focus on, just to focus on Divenancy for the second, because I agree with you that I think it is a fairly important year,

and this is largely hypothetical. But let's say the two Hasse guys, of course, Mick Schumacher is Ferrari Academy, but based on them both being rookies, I think there's a good chance that they'll stick with that lineup for 2022, in which case any other Ferrari juniors probably aren't going to go through the Hasse system. So if someone like Schwartzman or Armstrong is to make the mover up next year, it's probably going to have to go through Alpha Romeo. Say that Kimmy Reichena wants to stick around for another year because, I mean, he's not 70 yet.

What do you think that Jovanazzi would have to do to stave off the threat of someone like a Schwartzman? Yeah, I mean, this is kind of my point about whether it's actually in Giovannazzi's hand. is he just there? I don't know, maybe we were surprised that Giavenatsi stayed on last year. They could have put Eilat in the car. They could have put Schwartzman.

Yeah, so maybe they do see something in here, but I think he'd have to consistently start beating Kimi. He's got no other option because, you know, I don't see them getting rid of Kimmy, to be honest, because if they bring in a, say they bring in a, their rookie.

They're going to want, probably going to want Kimi there as an old pair of hands what's the training of their rookie. So, yeah, I just think Juvenazi's got to be

slightly more consistent because I think he has shown some real brilliant speed. He's just got a tendency to throw it off the road on occasions. And he likes to throw it off the road in quite big ways,

which I admire, you know, can't fault the guy for having big crashes. But, yeah, I think he just needs to iron that out because, you know,

if he can't, up that consistency, then he could be a semi-decent midfield driver. But, yeah, I think that's his real issue. So I didn't see what, I can't remember where he finished. Did he finish in front of Reiklin or not? Did they even finish the race? 12. He was in the end.

11 to 12. 11th to 12. Well, there you go. They're about the same. So, yeah, some better results, more consistent results for Giovinati, I think. Yeah. I think it is about unlocking that consistency. I don't think he's done it yet,

and whether he can do it at all is still a little bit of a question mark. He had a pretty good qualifying at the weekend. He did quite a bit better than Reichen and did in qualifying. Led Reichen and early on in the Bahrain Grand Prix, and the Alpha Romeo's didn't get that much in terms of camera time, but one of the things we did hear from the Alpha Rameos was Reichen and being directly behind Jovanazzi, asking can he move out of the way?

So it does kind of point to that consistency of he got it done in qualifying. And generally speaking, he does, at least against Kimmy, do a reasonable job in qualifying. But then it's in that race scenario where he hasn't quite got it nailed down yet. And, you know, if he finds himself in a situation where his teammate is asking for him to let him by,

if that happens too many times, then that's telling Alpha Romeo something. And it's not something that's good for him and his future prospects. You know, I do think he's, I do think he's a solid driver. I agree with you. He does seem to throw it away in spectacular ways occasionally.

And the good news is I do think he needs to beat Kimmy Reichenen this year, and he might have the opportunity to do so, not necessarily as any slander towards Kimmy, but just because last year the car was, you know, the alpha car was, poor last year to the point where no one driver could really beat the other one. It's a bit, it's a bit like the George Russell-at-Williams scenario where, you know, he's obviously a brilliant driver, shows it as much as he can, but when the points, when you look at the points at the end

of the year, it doesn't really show much. And I think it was very much that same situation with Alfa Romeo last year, whereas this year, it does appear as if that car might have a bit more about it. And I think they will score more points than they did last year, which might give Jovanat's the bit, the, you might give him the ability to, to go out there and win in terms of points and win with some conviction.

It'll be interesting to see on that one. I mean, another name you picked up on was Valtre Bortas and I agree with you that it's a big year. I still think that he is absolutely at the mercy of Lewis Hamilton. And, you know, the situation is if, if Hamilton commits to Mercedes long term,

Botas's stock value goes down massively because they'll have the stability of Hamilton there for years to the point where they could promote a George Russell. But as long as Hamilton's future is unclear, Bottas's value remains quite high because you don't want to be in the position where both go at the same time or you let Bottas go and Hamilton chooses to go on his own volition and you're sat there going into the new season with two rookie

or two new drivers to Mercedes. They are going to want to avoid that as much as they possibly can. So as long as Hamilton doesn't sign a three-year deal, Bottas's position is all right. But of course, that's not his decision. He's just got to rely on Hamilton for that. I think he's not actually helped, though, overall Bottas, by his old team, Williams.

Because George Russell being in the Williams, whilst he's getting F1 experience, he's not getting a right lot of F1 experience because he's so often at the back not fighting anyone. And you can do one year of that, you can do two years that. We're now in our third year where that's the case for George Russell now. And he's just not being thrown into these race situations that the midfield drivers are in constantly. And there were signs last year that the Williams might be getting a bit closer. You know, 2019 was a horrible year.

2020 they didn't score any points but arguably they were a little bit closer but this season it still doesn't look as if they're making that progress yet and at some point mercedes are going to say we need him to be in positions we need him to be in situations we can't just have him tailing around at the back doing everything he can in the car but just completely hamstrung by the machinery that's that's available to him they're going to have to relent at some point you know when that point is i don't know so i don't think botts has to has actually helped by that. If you're to compare it to say

the Alfa Tauri team or the Toro Roso team as it was, Red Bull, they don't choose to do this quite a lot, but they have the option to be patient with their drivers. You know, they can keep people in Toro Roso and Alfa Tauri for a couple of years and know that they're going to be in a midfield scrap and they're going to finish seventh in the championship and they're going to be open. Toro or Al-Aarroos are never in an awful situation.

where Williams are. So I don't think Bottas has helped by that at all. And as for Ocon, I mean, he's probably going to, I don't know, Alonzo will retire at the end of this year and Hamilton will probably join him at Alpine. That's how bad the guy's luck is. I mean, Perez, Ricardo and then Alonzo. You got to feel for the guy somewhat. Poor lad.

I mean, the way he showed up. I mean, we're going quite a few years back in now, but when he showed up at Manor, and Verline was fairly well respected at the time, and still is now, but Ockon did such a good job coming in against Verline, and this guy is maybe the next big thing, and then it just doesn't happen for him,

and then it's just a bad teammate roulette. Like, it's horrible for him. They'll probably get, like, Alan Prost out of retirement, to go against him. Hey, I would love to see Alan Prost in F1 again. That's, uh, he was, um, I think we were both there. Silverston, 2014 and he drove a red ball around and he absolutely caned it. He absolutely smashed it.

That was so great. That was so great. It was just a number of different drivers in cars, wasn't it? Sort of going around at a fairly standard pace and then just, oh, hang on, here's Alan Frost. Here we come, the professor. I mean, based on it probably not being Alan Prost or Hamilton that would go into that seat, who does Ocon need to be most worried about? Does he need to be most worried about the likes of Lungard and Guan Yuzhou and Oscar Piastri in Formula 2?

Or does he need to be more worried about, say, a Pierre Gasly who's quite often linked to making the move? I mean I mean Ghazly would be a tough teammate and I have a feeling they didn't used to get on which should be interesting dynamic but I mean if we

you know I would not basing things off just one weekend but Oscar Piastria is very impressive in F2 this weekend and you know Guanujo as well he's shown his talent

so I'd guess one of those one of those F2 drivers coming in as rookies if they came in and beat him, I mean, that's his stock as a decent driver out in the window. So I probably go for, I probably go for he has to be worried about the rookies.

Say Alonso does retire and he's still around. Because at least we know, we know Gansley's a good driver. So if he did get beaten by Gisley, you go, well, fair dues. But, yeah, if a rookie came in, that's definitely bad news for Rock on. But, yeah, hopefully he does enough. I feel for him because I hope he, he does enough this year against Alonzo to prove that he's worthy of sticking around for the long term and can be there for when Alonzo does retire again because he will retire because he's like Kimmy,

he's an old man now. Yeah, I think it's almost difficult to compare Ocon and Alonzo at that first race because Ocon was actually, Ocon was closing on Alonzo quite quickly towards the end of Alonzo's race, of course because he retired, but how much do you read into that based on Alonzo having a Tesco meal deal around his car? How much was that affecting his pace? You can't tell, can you?

What kind of meal deal do you reckon it was? I mean, it's Alonzo. It's going to be spicy, isn't it? Of course it's going to be spicy. Yeah, spicy sausage sandwich. This is the point where... A tango. He would be.

all over tango. This is the point where Sam would definitely say that Valdry Bossas's choice would be like the sort of just ham and nothing else. Sam was like, oh my God. You know it's true, as in like Sam would suggest it. Yeah, that is that it'd be a just ham sandwich. It'd be bottled water and some plain nuts, something like that. Oh, it's almost as if he never allowed. Yeah, see. I mean, yeah, with the Ocon situation, like, you've got, the problem is, compared to, like, the Ferrari driver academy, as we've already discussed, you can have Mick Schumacher go to Hass and you can maybe have Robert Schwartzman go to Alpha Romeo as well this year or whoever performs well in that academy. Renaud don't have that luxury. I did see some wild rumors that Williams might be in place. be a Renault junior team at some point.

I think they were quashed fairly quickly, but it kind of highlights the fact that Renaud Alpine don't really have an outlet for these junior drivers other than just straight up promoting them to the overall team. So, you know, Lungard, Guanyos, Piazsche, Piahtri, I think all three of them have got F1 potential, but what do you do with them? Do you go for it straight away?

Do you try and weasel them into a different team? It's difficult. Yeah, that is a fair point, especially on the fact they don't have a junior team at all. That's quite a disadvantage for Alpine. I was intrigued. Do they have an Alpine engine now, or is it still a Renault engine? What do they call that? Good question.

Not actually sure about that. Okay. Fair. Maybe it's a baguette. It could be. It could be. I mean, the one left over from Alonzo's meal deal, maybe it's that that's getting it along the straights.

Oh God. You know what I love? Because we'll round things off here, but I do love that even in the absence of Sam, we have ended on a ridiculous note, which kind of proves maybe that we're actually no better than it. Maybe we're the problem. That's embarrassing.

Maybe. Maybe. Or hail Sam. Anyway, I'm sure he'll be back for next week's podcast. I'd usually hand over to Sam now. weird what do you do? What do I do? Should I just speak into the abyss? I've no idea. Yeah, we'll be back next week for the podcast and then when it does roll round. We'll be previewing Imola and reviewing that one on the Sunday of the race. But until next time, keep breaking late.

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