The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Two red flags at chaotic Tuscan GP! | Episode 74

Episode Date: September 13, 2020

Another crazy F1 race in Italy! The boys break down all the talking points from Mugello's inaugural race.Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please play responsibly. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking Formula One podcast. This is our review of the 2020, 24 hour of Magello. The first ever race at the circuit, and it was not without incident. Two red flags, a first ever podium for Alex Album, and eight DNFs, but it was back to normality for Mercedes.

Lewis Hamilton, taking maximum points and heading home Valtrey Bottas in second place. Joining me are Harreid and Samuel Sage. What about that one then, guys? It's been 84 years. It feels like the last time we're recording something because that was the world's longest. That feels like the longest phrase six, we'll just say before coming on here since Canada, 2011. But you know what? That was bloody awesome.

It was thrilling. It was interesting. there was stuff happening all over the place. You could root for drivers all up and down the grid. There was a political message at the end. It had absolutely everything. And you love to see the absolute banter of it. Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate the fact that the F2 drivers stepped in for the F1 drivers today.

I think that's just to spice up the show. Yeah, complete carnage. And you don't often see that amount of carnage in F1. And even if you do, it's like in the wet, like Spar 98, not in beautiful sunny. Tuscany. Yeah, complete madness, but loved it. Yeah, I was having a look at sort of red flagged races prior to this and found that the Circuit to Catalonia and the Hungara in combined have hosted 65 Grand Prix and never had a red flag. Give Micello two hours and they've got two. So, well done, Micello. Well done indeed.

Crofti actually supplied a good fact for once. That was, I think, the sixth race ever out of 1,021 to have two reg flags in one race. Yes, and we'll be discussing later on in the podcast whether we should return to Magello in 2021. But before that, we're also going to be looking at Alex Albin, his first podium, finally, in the Red Bull. How would we rate his race? Was it a deserved podium for him?

And also Valtry Bottas, got a great start on the first of three starts that we had. Unfortunately, not the same for the second and third starts. Was it a missed opportunity for him? of the day, worst driver of the day, moment of the race, the normal things you can expect from us. But we'll start with Valtrey Bottas. Valtry Bottas managed to get off the line better than Lewis Hamilton on that first start, took the lead, only for the red flag to cause a second start, and then a third start later on in the Grand Prix, at both of which Lewis Hamilton held the advantage. Sam, do you think this was a missed opportunity for Bottas? Do you think you should have won this? How can it not be? I mean, he'll be absolutely kicking himself.

He'll think that, look, maybe we should just start playing Dan Tipton's radio messages in Bottas' trailer, because he must feel the same. Those two must be best mates. What have I done in a previous life to deserve such woeful misery? It's what Dan Tipton likes to say, despite earning a lot of money in driving fast cars for fun. Valtry Bottas, bless him.

He did everything right pretty much all weekend. He didn't put it on pole, which actually gave him what seemed to be like the better grid spot. He absolutely mullered the start, didn't he? It was bloody perfect. Off the road he went into the sunset of Tuscany and he thought, that's it, right, I'm leading around here. And we all said at the start,

the guy that leaves into turn, it's a guy that wins this race before, you know, that two red flags turn up. Second red flag does come along afterwards. A very eventful safety car restart when the back end of the grid decided that they wanted to leave the safety car to get to the front early.

Bottas was still warming his tyres up. We had absolute carnage, massive spa, old school vibes. going on there with the field crashing beforehand. And Hamilton finessed it round the outside. It was a brilliant recovery from Lewis Hamilton, got round the outside of Bossass, fantastic attacking

maneuver from Lewis. It's great to see him still be able to go wheel to wheel with one of the best drivers on the grid when it comes to fighting and pulling off such a miraculous move on the same machinery. It was really brilliant. And then the third start on the race, not often you have three restarts in one race, comes along

and it couldn't have gone worse. It's like each one progressively got worse for him. Ricardo flew past him, nearly possibly got past Hamilton as well. He did well to get back past Ricardo, of course, a lap or so later. But that was it. That was race over. So that was the race where we're thinking Bottas is going to claw about points. He's managed to get in front of Lewis Hamilton at the start.

The one race like Monaco that you need to do it, he did it, and it all just fell apart for him. And I had to take my hat off for Lewis Hamilton for recovering, for getting better with each start, for holding on with each start. The card really worked with Botasker Day. And I can say there was some bad luck, but also, he was also outdriven by his teammate again. So, yeah, gutting. Unfairly so a little bit, but that is the way the cars are dealt. What do you reckon, Harry, do you think this was a missed opportunity for him?

Yeah, I mean, he, as Sam said, he's going to have a bit of tan, Dan tick some vibes about him, feeling a bit hard done by... Big Tantrum, mate. No, no, I'm not saying. Richard, I believe, is his... his name. Yeah, he's going to, I think he was a little bit because two out of the three starts, he actually, he nailed.

He nailed the first one to get by Hamilton. He nailed the second one, but was done mugs by Hamilton into T1, just because how powerful that slipstream is. And then obviously the third one, he fluffed it up. And yeah, in an ordinary race, which that obviously wasn't, after that first start, we might have said that's kind of game over, I think on a pace they were relatively close. Obviously, Hamilton managed to look after his tyres better in the first stint,

but then he didn't have the dirty air of himself to contend with. So, yeah, it's another miss one. And you could tell when Hamilton banged in that fastest lap on the penultimate lap and just Bottas slipped back by about four seconds then, because I think he knew it was game over. And it just, it must really hurt having to get up every morning and be beaten by his Hamilton at the last. moment.

Like, oh, I mean, fair play for him to keep turning up every week and giving it a good go. And he's just, again, he's just kind of on the wrong side. He's so close, but he's on the wrong side. And it got unlucky yesterday in Kuali because he could well have taken pole there. Yeah, and then he just couldn't get close enough. But, yeah, he's on the wrong side, but then it's just, you know, he's got to be that tiny bit quicker and tiny bit more. I thought on that second.

restart. He could have maybe fought Hamilton a bit more. I know it was difficult because on cold ties, but he did have the track position going his term one. But yeah, he's going to ruin it. And if it wasn't already, that championship is done and dusted now, quite frankly. Yeah, I feel like Valtrey Bottas, and it's a fine line between misfortune and not being good enough. And where he lies in terms of different incidents is generally speaking, down. on to personal opinion. We've discussed the starts a lot this year and how Valtry Bottas constantly seems to make good starts

at the wrong races and makes bad starts at the wrong races. You know, he had an awful start at the circuit to Catalonia, which is a race where you absolutely need a great start. Whereas Silverstone, where you don't have much of an opportunity going into turn one, he got a great start there. And he wasn't, he didn't have enough of a run to capitalize. And he must have just been hoping, I need a good start at a race where I can capitalize and he got it. He got it here. You know, you've got enough of a rundown

into term one as Bottas and Hamilton both proved. But if you do get a good start, or even if you get the same start as the guy in front of you, it gives you an opportunity. And Bottas finally nails it. You know, you think, oh, everything's coming up Bottas for once. Only for then, only for then, his own, the ironic thing is he had, I think he did a very good job on that safety car restart. But the problem is he did such a good job that it caused the crash, which essentially gave Hamilton the chance to get him again on the standing restart. So it's all right. If you spin out or you make an error and your teammate gets past you as a result of that, fair enough, he has to content with the fact that he did something pretty good. And that was the reason his teammate got passed. So that's

pretty demoralizing. And yeah, I mean, it came up for him again. He needed a safety car. He got one. The racing gods shone down on him for once and he couldn't take advantage of it. So, you know, at that point you have to say, well, he was given the opportunity and he couldn't take it. And this is a race weekend where Bottas absolutely should have taken the race victory. He was the quicker cut of the two, in my opinion. He led every practice session. He couldn't quite, you know, qualifying didn't go his way. And it just proves that you need to be on it in both of those runs in Q3 because that sort of thing can happen to Valdry Botas as did. And he nailed the race start and he couldn't, you know, as a way he couldn't do it.

And, you know, that's been like you say, Harry, the tire wear wasn't quite the same. You know, the dirty air was probably a massive part to play in that. But, you know, Bottas, you just feel as if the stars just aren't aligning for him this year. And it's a mixture of that and also him not being able to take the opportunities when they come. It's very difficult to determine and what belongs in which category. But yeah, this is a race he should have won. And unfortunately for him, this is why Lewis Hamilton is the champion that he is,

is that he can win on race weekends where he probably shouldn't be winning. And Botap can't seem to do the reverse. I mean, put it into context this way, Lewis Hamilton came away of the championship last season. Hamilton's already had more pole positions this year and only halfway through the season. And Hamilton has now won seven.

of nine races. I mean, Hamilton is continually getting better and Bottas is matching him. I think if Bottas, like you said, the stars are lying a little bit more. Vossas could be a machine if he just gets his head down, but every week now,

he's getting out of that car after each session and being more and more and more frustrated. I think it's just becoming a bit of a snowball of anger, which is now just rolling endlessly towards the end of the season. And I reckon one more race

and you can close the book on this. And ultimately, like, Hamilton hasn't overtaken Bottas this year. I think that's probably the most confusing thing and the most frustrating thing for Bottas is that if you look at, say, Albin versus Vestappen,

it's very clear that Albin isn't on the pace of Vestappen by a few temps per lap, and you can work to minimize that. I think Bottas has a case to say that there really isn't in terms of pace much between the two drivers. It's just this race management aspect that Bottas hasn't got nailed down

to the same level that Hamilton has. You know, when Bottas has led a race, he's continued to lead the race. And unless things happen out of his control, he's been able to maintain it. And it does seem as if whichever Mercedes leads is the one that will stay leading. And, you know, there isn't a lot of reversing

between those two positions. But, you know, a few hundreds of a second in qualifying as continues to be the case. And, you know, this red flag that we had in Magello just seems like incidents like that are keeping Bottas behind. Hamilton and to a degree like, yeah, if you've got four or five temps that you need to find up, it's probably much easier to work on that and to know what you need to do to minimize it. But when it is so close, this is the case with Bottas and Hamilton, it's tough to know what to do.

Can we also talk about what I actually feel was very unlucky for Bottas, just pure bad luck, was that when he came into the pits at the right time, Belufus was before the second red flag. he was right at the pit entry as the safety car was announced and then it turned into the red flag got those tyres on came out and the safety car was already waiting at the end of the pit lane but Bottas was second so Bottas had to spend half a lap

behind the safety car going a safety car place and was then released while Hamilton was driving around a normal place that you're allowed to do without the safety car in front of you and gets back into pit lane and goes back out in front Botas was so well-time that theoretically without an interrupted lap by the safety car in front of him he could have passed Hamilton

due to what was going on and just was badly caught off guard. I think that just shows that maybe there were some just difficult factors to him to deal with. No, I mean, this sort of is a null point, sort of, in that when Bottas came into the pits, he was asking for a different compound to what Lewis Hamilton was going to receive. It didn't work out because Bottas came in first, so ultimately that strategy went out of the window.

But, Harry, would you say this is encouraging that Bottas at least wants to try something different? and try something to rock the boat. Yeah, I really like that message from him. It shows, because we've, you know, after a past couple of defeats at races, he's seen really down and disheartened, but he's obviously still got the fire within him

to take the challenge. And, you know, like I said, I think they were a pretty evenly match on pace today, and he realised that, having, you know, not got the, or lost the leave, he needed to try something different. So yeah, it was kind of, that was kind of something I thought Rosberg would do, like do something different, like kind of mess.

We try and mess with the strategy of Hamilton. Yeah, and I liked it. And it was good to see that he was, he may be saying that all the time, but we don't hear it. But it was just, you know, it was nice to hear him, you know, thinking on his feet and trying something different. And, yeah, it was encouraging. I didn't see his reaction after the rain.

but I hope that continues because we need him to keep challenging. Because he is pushing Hamilton in qualifying and in today and the race. He is pushing him. It's just not quite there. And it must be so frustrating for him. Were you as encouraged by that message, Sam? Oh, yeah. That was fantastic.

That was racist. That was fighting talk. That was, I need to beat Hamilton. I'm not going to beat him as we're doing this right now. That doesn't work around this track. So whatever Lewis is doing, give me the opposite. because I need to try something different. And he's thinking about it.

He's strategically trying to plan out his race in order to get in front of Lewis Hamilton. And there are not many people on this planet that can currently beat Lewis Hamilton on an outright pace lap for lap. So Bottas is looking at the other option. What can I do? More durability, longer lap life.

I can be shorter lap life, but I can get in front of him and I can hold onto track position. He's thinking that as he's on the go, which is fantastic to see. Unfortunately, when you pair that with Bottas' his current racecraft, it all unravels.

It falls apart. But Botas doesn't have tiewear capability at the moment. We've seen that throughout the whole season. Bottas' tie wear is worse than Hamilton's. And it is shown time after time. And it makes Hamilton's life easy. Because Hamilton just has to wait for Bottas's ties to fall off a cliff. A six second gap opens up.

Bottas comes in that lap. Hamilton comes in the next lap. And then they come out the pit lane. Hamilton's got an eight second gap to his teammate. No competition. No race needed. It doesn't matter what you want to, you know, Bottas. I'll just jump on it afterwards because I've got a big gap now.

So Bottas can really complete the final aspects of his game before we can really see an absolute fight a head to head between Lewis and Bottas because you can push someone in qualifying all you want. But the moment you get into that race, you can't finish your race as equally. St. Michelle LeClau today had a great start to the race and eight tires up like it was no-buggy's business.

You're not competitive. You're not able to take those extra points because you just can't manage it properly. So Bottas has still got a lot to work on but it was a fantastic sign seeing him really go for fighting talk. Yeah, and I think with Mercedes and the lay of the land at the moment,

they've got more scope, BOTAS has got more, he's got more scope to ask for these sorts of strategies that is going to mess with Lewis Hamilton. They just have fewer cars to contend with than in previous years. If you think back a few years, your Mercedes had to be wary of essentially four drivers in Reichen and Vettel, Ricardo and Vastappen. And even last season, you would say Vettel, Leclair and Vestappen. This season, they only really have to contend with Max Vastappen in nearly every race. That's just how F1 has ended up to this point right now.

So when Vestapp, particularly when Vastappen is out of the race like he was today, it just gives Mercedes free reign to do whatever they want. And that gives BOTAS free reign to try something different. And it didn't work out, obviously, because Hamilton is very good at managing his tires. I assume it was a mixture of Hamilton being very good at managing his tires and BOTAS being in that dirty air that, you know, Bottas wanting to try something different kind of means that he has to pit second and because he struggled so much, he had to pit first. But I found it encouraging as well. You know, this is the type of thing he needs to try. He doesn't need to be worried about the cars behind. That Mercedes, if he's worried about cars behind, he shouldn't be in that Mercedes because

it's good enough that it should be one, two, in every normal race. That's just how it is, especially when Vestappen isn't there. But you could even say when Vestappen is there, you know, if you're not willing to risk something. If you're not willing to, you know, give it a gamble, you're not going to beat Lewis Hamilton, quite simply. And we have seen so often the leading Mercedes is the one that's going to go home and win the race. So if you're on the same strategy, and that's not going to do anything, you might as well try something different. And when there are fewer other cars in the equation, that just helps Bottas's case to say to it the engineers, why don't we try this? I'm going to finish second no matter what, so let's try it. Unfortunately, didn't come to

fruition today. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. But it is encouraging that it seems as if he will try something in future races. Whether he does or not, it remains to be safe. Should we move on to Driver of the Day then? So, Harry, who have you got for this one? I mean,

any of them that didn't crash. We'll agree with them. I'm going to go for, I'll go with the general public, and go for Danny Rick. I think without that last red flag, he would have been P3. So, yeah, so Stroll can get past him, so Stroll decides they could just crash instead. The Danny Rake can't get it.

No, I'm joking, Strull fans. Yeah, no, I'm going to get for Danny Rake. There's fair few contenders out there, actually. But, yeah, I thought Ricardo, in between him and Albon, I think he deserved that podium more. So, yeah, I'll give it to the old Honey Badger. Sam, what do you reckon? I mean, Honey Badgers are absolutely great shout. The man was pulling punches left, right and centre.

I loved his fighting talk on the final restart. So shame it didn't come off the right way, but, you know, that kind of, let's finish what we started. That's like you're expecting, like, a powerful montage to start with some big music kicking off, like a film was going to out to go. But, you know, maybe they'll use that and drive to survive somewhere, because that was an epic moment. So shame it didn't round off to be the way he wanted it to be.

Gets past Bottas, great move. Really took it to the Mesaegis. It was nice to see someone else taking it to them. Mercedes. Perez also did a really good job, despite having less updates on his car to stroll. He was always there throughout the race. Lano Norris also drove really well. Kiviat kept it together nicely.

I'm going to give it to Lewis Hamilton. He was under constant pressure, having to manage all those different restarts, beat the one person on the track he needs to be and dig so coming out on top. But it's incredibly close. I love it when we end a race, and I have about six names in my head that would drive the day, because that shows we've had a really strong. race. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I could give driver the day to Ferrari, quite simply, because apart from Mercedes, they were the only team to bring home two cars. I'm just kidding, of course. I'm going to go with Daniel Ricardo. Excellent performance. And I agree. I think he would have got P3 if it wasn't for that red flag, because even though Album was definitely on the move at that point, he did have the Lanch Stroll protection sort of in

P4. So I think the amount of time it would have taken, the amount of effort it would have taken out the tires to get past Lanch Stroll. which I think was on the cards for Albin, I don't think that would have left him with enough to get Ricardo in the end. As it happens, you know, even with that great start by Ricardo,

he did everything he could by getting past Valtrey Bottas into term one. Even so, there was no defence against Albon. And I don't think you can blame Daniel Ricardo for giving up that P3. Still, though, 12 points. Another solid performance from him. He's really showing what he can do.

It will be very exciting if that McLaren is capable of regular podiums next. season, who knows on that respect. But yeah, good stuff from Danny Rick. I'm going to go with him. What about worst driver of the day, Harry? I could go with all the drivers that didn't finish a race. I am going to give it to, I don't know.

I think all of the ones that did finish don't deserve worst driver of the day because they finished. So let's give it to, I'll go over to Gazzley. I think he was a bit ambitious on that. on that first start, I think you could have backed out a bit sooner. But, yeah, I mean, it was so chaotic. I feel harsh giving it to anyone, to be honest. But I'll go for P-Gazel from Hero to Zero.

What about you, Sam? Again, it's actually really difficult, especially when you only had 12 finishes to pick someone that got to the end of the race and deserves to be called worst driver of the day. Maybe Grojean, despite the fact that he was in, the barrier at one point facing the wrong way in the gravel and still managed to be on the

back of that safety car and then had to crawl his way through what looked like a recreation of some seeing in World War II in front of him down that pit straight. Swearing at the camera was also an absolute highlight. You love to see that as well. Putting other people's lives at risk, mowing about that when he does it on a weekly basis. He's fantastic. But he was so much slower than everyone else for the whole race. He was never on the pace. He was never close enough to getting a move done. I feel if Magnuson had made it all the way through

the Magnuson might have even left him in the dust. That Haas car is atrocious. Even Russell, who fell all the way back down to last, ended up absolutely breezing past him within a few laps. It's just,

it's a shameful, shameful thing they've got going on there at Haast, and they've somehow gone from being what was fighting to be the fourth best team in Formula One to possibly being the worst team we've seen in a little while

since Williams were at their lowest level. And I think that drive might be gone. I think my drive might be gone for him next season. I think that we're going to see a new line up there. So for me, Grojean was worse driver of the day. I mean, on Ferrari's 1000th race, do I dare pick a Ferrari driver? The answer is yes to that, by the way.

I'm going to go with Sebastian Vettel. He was comfortably outpaced by Shal LaCle. I mean, qualifying wasn't even close. Shal LaClair managed to, and in fairness, this was more down to Shal LaClaar's greatness, what he was able to do to get that car to P5, Sebastian Vettel scrapes through Q1, knocked out comfortably in Q2.

And I know Leclair did drop throughout the field and didn't manage his tires perfectly, but he was still way more competitive than Vettel was in the race. And I think Vessel was brought back into it somewhat due to those red flags. So I think it was a bit of a nothing race for him, really. He kept ahead of Grosjean and Russell, how, you know, given the fact that that Ferrari was apparently good enough to be in Q3. I don't think staying ahead of Groygion and Russell matters that much or really should amount to that much credit.

So yeah, I'm going to go with Vessel. And he couldn't even close the gap to Riking. He had a five second penalty. He's still finished behind Kimmy in the same power union, a car that's awful, with a penalty. Yeah, yeah. Seby. Absolutely checked out for the rest of this year, isn't he?

Don't you think? Yeah, contract signed up on the beach, mate. In his head, he's pure Marbeyer. Where's he going next year? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I haven't heard the news, mate. I've got a clue.

That does feel like about a billion years ago, by the way. It's only on Thursday. Yeah. Video up now to hear about our reactions if you're interested. Nice. Good plug. Well done. 10 points to stage.

Thank you. What about moments of the race? What have you got, Harry? I mean, there's a fair few, but I'm going to go. The one that made me laugh a lot was when they were trying to lift the smouldering wreck of Lancho's car over the barrier. And there's just a lot of marshals yelling in Italian

because it's still on fire up in the air. And it's complete pandemonium. Yeah, there's a lot of good moments of that race. But that one made me fully laugh out loud. I was like, come on, guys. Nice. What about you, Sam? That looked like a seeing out of alien, didn't it?

When like they ripped the insides are all coming out. now, ah, no! You're like, don't look away, children. Don't look inside this poor, with the fire extinguisher all over it. It looked like a living being. It been torn open. It was horrible. That poor car.

For me, I think it's hard to look away from Roman Grosjean, just swearing heavily. Freaking idiots, I think he called them, on live camera in the pit lane, which of course was part of the most one. There was crazy crashes we've seen for a long time in Formula One. So that whole area, I think of the red flag. was what really turned it into an absolute spectacle of a race that had everything. So for me, it was that safety car restart with the crash, and then Grojean just topping it off with absolutely screaming it.

I'm also going to go for a Roman Grosjean incident, but actually a different one. I thought his overtake around the outside of turn two was absolutely brilliant. So I'm going to go with that. However, I was very, very close to, again, picking something that actually happened outside of the race. but the national anthem at the start, I know there are going to be loads of nationalists

coming after me as a Brit, but good God, please can we adopt their national anthem. It's so much better than ours. It's so much better. I thought that was awesome. But yeah, there's so many to choose from. You're right in saying that. Moving on to Alex Albon then.

So Alex Albon, after, I don't know how many races he's had in the Red now pretty much a season's worth of races. Finally got on the podium. His teammate Max Verstappen was out of the race at turn two, left him the opportunity. He took the opportunity. He could argue he did it the long way around after making some overtakes to make it happen.

Sam, how would you rate Alex Albin's race out of 10? Do you think it was a great drive from him or really what he should have achieved? Well, no, this was what he should have achieved. I'm not going to be silly with that. When you're starting fourth place and your teammate doesn't make it round lap one, this is 100% where you need to finish.

It's in third place. That was his chance to finish on the podium, and he did it. Yeah, it may not have been the most elegant of ways of doing it. He may not have just comfortably sat in the middle of nowhere, like we've seen Red Bull do so often. In third place, he's going round and round and round. He pulled off tough overtakes.

He had a really difficult time starting. Both Red Bull drivers got out the car and said, this car just does not start well at the moment. It does not get off the line well, and they both fell down the track, of course, the staffing ending the DNF, but Albon, who had to contend with two restarts falling back through the traffic,

came back again. The red flag, yes, it helped him. That doesn't mean he didn't capitalize on it. It doesn't mean he didn't make the most of it. He got past Daniel Ricardo around the outside of turn one. Daniel Ricardo, the man that We'll view is one of the best overtakers in Formula One at the moment. He put it, you know, right around the outside of him.

And I was impressed. I was impressed with that move. So yes, he did the absolute bare minute. of him that he needed to do in terms of finishing. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. It doesn't mean he didn't have a great race doing it. It doesn't mean he was in a tough car that was struggling in all the key areas and still pulled off something.

Yes, a little kind of thing went his way. That isn't a bad thing. That happens with Lewis Hamilton today. He might not have won if it wasn't for red flags. So for me, I would have a really good race. I hope that he can continue with this form in a race that isn't hectic. I hope that he's able to take that forward in a standing race where there isn't a safety car or a red flag and he's able just to execute pace, use that red ball.

And if he finishes four for the rest of the season where the Staffen finishes third, that's fine by me. He could get four for the next ten races. As long as he's five seconds behind Gestappen and he's backing him up, good job Alex's album. This was the start he needs and hoping he can carry it on. Well done, Alex. You finally got there.

And out of ten? I'm going to give it a solid eight and a half. A solid eight. Not even an unsolic eight and a half. It's solid. No jelly here. No jelly here. No fluid 8.5s here. Pure solid. That's me. Harry, what do you reckon out of 10 and his race overall? How did you find it?

I would agree with an 8th out of 10, I think. Yeah, it was what he needed. And I really hope this now just unlocks some confidence, some more confidence in him. And yeah, like you said, he did go the long way round about it. But, you know, it was a crazy race. And it doesn't matter. as long as he get over the line in third or in the position you need, then that's fine. And yeah, and he did make a solid overtake

on Ricardo. The opportunity was there, and he, you know, he managed to actually take it this time, which was great to see. I, you know, had Verstappen still been in the race, how far out the road would he have been? And would he, you know, even been in the mix to win? Who knows? But, yeah,

and this is the kind of, the whole weekend for album is the kind of performance Red Bull need. If Vestappen had been in the race, at least Albon would have been there to be his rear gunner, which is the kind of thing they need, because they want to try and beat Mercedes on our Sunday. So, yeah, with the absence of Vestappen, I think that was, you know, that was the best result they could have hoped for from Albon.

So, yeah, I'm glad he said. I was gutted for Danny Rick, but at the same time, you know, Albon needed this podium for the, you know, going forward. So, yeah, eight out of ten for me. Yeah, I think ultimately any worse than third. And I'd be looking at Albert and saying you didn't maximise what that car was capable of. And, you know, that Red Bull has been, you could say even a member of the midfield at certain races this year. But definitely at this race, it was the clear second best ahead of, you know, the racing points and the McLaren's and the Renault.

and the Renault as evidenced by the third and fourth place finished that Red Bull were able to achieve in qualifying. Really, you know, in a race where all four of them finished, there'd be no reason for Albin to finish lower than fourth. And as one of them didn't finish the race, you know, there was no reason for him to get any less than third. And he did go the long way around it. My problem is, I don't think he needed to.

You know, he had poor starts. And, you know, you say that the Red Bull doesn't get away very well. Vastappen got away well on his one and only start. Obviously, the car problems meant that he immediately dropped back. But without them, I think he probably had the momentum to get Lewis Hamilton for P2. We'll never know that, but he was pretty much alongside. So Vastappen on his one and only start got away well. And Albin, every single time he started, moved backwards.

So I was a bit disappointed with that. And it looked as if he was trying to give himself every single chance to throw it away. and ultimately, you know, the F1 goals didn't let him. Having said that, it was a good race. You know, it was a solid race. Now, I'd give him a seven out of ten as a result of that. He made the overtakes when he needed to make them. Yes, I don't think he should have needed to make them in the first place.

But the one on Ricardo was clinical, you know, when he was down in, was it about P7, he did make up a few positions to get back in contention. Would he have got that podium without the red flag? As I've previously said, I'm a bit. doubtful as to whether he would have done. I think he might well have got stroll for P4. Would he have then got Ricardo for P3? Who knows?

The ease at which he managed to get past him later in the race is evidence that maybe he could have done. But I think the amount of he would have needed to take out the tires to get past Landstrol in the first place might have left him without an opportunity. Yeah, this was solid. But I don't think it was better than solid. You know, I think it was good, but not great. And Albin, I still think he needs to show in a race where Vastappan finishes as well,

what he's capable of doing. Like I say, this was the, you know, third place was probably the maximum he could have got, and it was also probably the minimum he could have got. So the only way to evaluate this race is how easy did he get there? And the answer is not very. But I'm glad he got there because he definitely deserves the podium, you know, after what happened in Brazil last year and after what happened in Austria this year, you know, I do think he was fortunate to end up in those positions in the first place due to safety cars,

but, you know, he was taken off through no fault of his own in both instances. So I'm glad he did get there in the end. And ultimately he was in a position where he just didn't need to make any errors and he didn't. So in terms of wheel to wheel racing, I should say, on that. So fair play to him. We know he's a good overtaken and he proved it again. Yeah, I can't believe that, um, sorry, did someone stop playing the flute? What was that about?

Sorry, I've got, I've got two glasses alongside me and I put one down and accidentally hit it into the other. It sounded like the F1 theme ching on the flute was about it. That's how Ben finishes every point now. Um, take note of this, listeners. I have in this podcast, defended both Botas and Albon. Just remember that. Yeah, I was going to say, are you feeling okay, Sam? This has been a weird podcast for you.

It's been a weird day, okay? Imagine Jason Bourne running through a film, right? That was me running through the south of London across transport links to get back to the racing time. I was stuck in bloody Wimbledon in boiling hot temperatures. Oh, what a trek it was. I was faster than the restarts were at one point. So remember that image. Were you faster than the Hass?

Well, who isn't? Right answer. Moving on. So obviously, only 12 finishes today. And at the moment, this was the first race that we've gone around with Jello. And at the moment, it's going to be the only one. And we're going to ask it, should it return? Should it return next year?

Should it return in the future? Sam, what do you reckon? Tough question. Big tough question, because I double. red flag race with a safety car stuffed in the middle is not what we're going to have every single season here, of course. That's not the norm. We've only ever had six double red flag races ever, so don't expect that to happen again anytime soon. I made my bold prediction in our preview that there would only be 10 on-track overtakes. Now, I was wrong, but I was not wrong by much.

If you discount overtakes happening where someone has just put on fresh tires and they're now passing the back of the field, there were only about 15 overtakes. all race. And that includes having two proper restarts. So I think if we have a full field of normal cars, no safety car, no crashing going on, I really don't think it would have been that thrilling. I still think it produces better races maybe than Catalonia does. So maybe it could replace one of those.

But I don't think it would go down as an all-time classic track that we'd look forward to coming to every single season. I'd be willing to give it a couple more years just to see what you can produce. So maybe with the new cars in a couple of years' time, it can really be something special. But right now, I think it would need a little bit more testing, a little more trial work, changing the aerodynamics would help. And then maybe we'll have something good on our hands.

But right now, just because we've had something crazy happen, I'm not convinced that it's going to be a great race every single season. What do you reckon, Harry? Do you think F1 should be open to returning to the circuit? I do. I think there was enough there today. and if you look at the support races too, to go back and give it a couple more goes.

Yeah, you know, today was definitely an anomaly in terms of LF1 races because we had two red flags, Dirty had 10 finishes, and that's not going to happen every year. But it's great to watch, you know, I thought Qualifying was going to be the best bit. And it was great to watch the cars here around in Kuali,

but even in the race we have some good action it's a difficult track to overtake at but I think even without the complete carnage they there was more action than we would have seen out the likes of Barcelona so yeah I'd rather go there than go to to Catalonia um yeah I'd be up for I'd be up for going back there is a bit of me and I saw I can't remember who tweeted this saying maybe megello should be like a one-off race that we all remember like Donington 93 was and there's been a meaning of things that as well maybe this was just a special thing we should just leave alone but yeah i would be i think there are races i'd rather go i'd rather go to this one than other races ie iiiii or abidabi at all spain so yeah i'd be up for it coming back next year

yeah my my instinct is saying that it shouldn't return next year but very specifically it shouldn't return next year because I think for these current crop of cars, I think we were sort of blessed with a ridiculous race today, which is unlikely to be replicated again. I really like the circuit itself. It's so refreshing to have a situation where drivers are punished if they go even slightly off the circuit. It makes the likes of Cota and, you know, Sochi where we're going very soon. it makes it look like a bit of a mockery. The second you go offline, you're in the gravel. The second you go offline, you're in the grass.

And that's how it should be. These are the best 20, or they should be the best 20 drivers in the world in the quote unquote pinnacle of motorsport. You know, this is how it should be where you make an error. You're punished for it. And it's, you know, for that reason, I would like to return to the circuit. but ultimately, even though there was one or two moves, I mean, there was one move, as I've already referenced,

around the outsider turned two by Grosjean. Albon also managed to go around the outside of that chican as well, on the other side. But other than that, pretty much every single overtake happened into term one, which for the record, I think is a great corner. But after turns one, two and three, there's no overtaking outside of that. So it would be good to come back with the next generation of cars.

Hopefully they are aerodynamically, as they should be aerodynamically, giving options elsewhere, you know, giving just half chances at other corners. Because qualifying was a great frill. The race itself was a thrill as well. But part of me is concerned that just the state of this race was a one-off. So I would say leave it off for next year. come back in 2022 and see what happens then. And I mean, after going three years without having any red flag,

I believe Azerbaijan 2017 was the last time before last week at Monza. We've had three red flags in two races, which has been... Oh, well, well done, Baku. Yeah, cheers, Baku. So yeah, three red flags in two races, it's been a bit nuts in that respect. And it has highlighted something, that doesn't get highlighted all that often is the rule that you can change tires when there is a red flag. Landstrol, obviously, majorly benefited from it last time out.

No one really benefited from it today. Harry, do you think there's cause to look at this rule? I know Lando Norris was pretty outspoken about it? I think quite possibly, I mean, it's such a, yeah, as you say, it's such a rarity. And we've had three in the past week now. So, obviously, this is now a topic of discussion. but yeah I wouldn't mind them to we saw it

Monaco like maybe like 2011 and there were three cars going for the win all on I think it was like Vettel Alonzo Button maybe some of that and they all had different age ties it was really exciting then it was a red flag and they all had to change onto fresh ties and they completely took the life out of the race

so I think I would be happy for them to bring that in as a you know you've got to stick unless it's raining, fine. You can change their intermediates or wet, but you should have to stay on the tyres or on. The race is effectively suspended, like nothing is happening. And if you need to fix something on the car that's broken, fine.

But the race should resume as it was beforehand. Everyone's in the same position. Everyone should be in the same, on the same conditions of tyres. And that, you know, how about our standing restart with everyone on our old tyres or different age ties would be mega interesting. So, yeah, I mean, it's obviously not something they probably not thought about until now with having had three red flags in recent memory. So, yeah, I think they should change it.

I think they should ban tire changes in under red flag conditions. We all know that there's not now going to be a red flag for another five years, and this is all going to be for nothing. But hey, we'll discuss it anyway. Sam, what do you think? Do you think the rule needs to be reviewed? Harry, it was almost like you were convincing yourself of your own point as you went through that. It's like you're starting on deciding at the end.

You're like, actually, tire changes should be removed forever. All right, project cars, calm down. Do I think the tyres should be allowed to be changed under red flag conditions? Honestly, I would accept targets on both sides. You're right, in certain races, if you've got different tire, imagine if it happened when Hamilton was hunting down, Max Verstaff and at Hungary last year. season, right? That was one of the best fights for the league with Hanging Ages.

It was fantastic to watch. You could see the gap shrinking, the move happened. It was brilliant. And imagine if a lap before Lewis got there, a red flag came out, they both got to put on fresh soft tyres, and that would have been it. That would be very dull. That would have sucked. But, throwback to last

week at Monza, Pierre Gassley gets his first wing. We've got a Pierre Gassley-Gasley-Carl podium. Because it allows differences to happen. So in that sense, I really don't mind. I really don't mind. That isn't my issue. My issue is I don't think you should be allowed to change parts in your car unless it is of a health risk. I don't think you should be able to come in and, you know, literally take off panels of the vehicle and change different things going on.

If you've got a problem, you've got to learn to deal with that problem. You know, you shouldn't be able to change everything. I know it's like for like, but I don't think you should be allowed to do that. And I also think that, and I said this before we were recording, I think that if a driver is out, you should be able to bring back the third car, the spare, and they should start from the back of the grid, from the pit lane. Because I think after that first restart, having 20 drivers backing again, will have been way more exciting, way more interesting, because it'll be really fun to have the full grid happen again.

You can have a thing that might happen. And those cars should be almost like the stock version with maybe no updates applied or something like that. So you don't get a guarantee advantage. But I do think we should get the drivers back in and there should be that option to bring them back in. So for tie exchanges, I don't. really care because I think there is a possible advantage of both sides and it's a rule that

happens so rarely that I'm all ears for what happens after a red flag because it is always exciting. When will we have a red flag happen when it hasn't been exciting afterwards? I can't remember one. So for me, I would rather see other rules change that maybe happen more regularly rather than this tie one because I can see positives and negatives. I think it needs to be looked at really because in my view what a red flag should be, what a red flag is is pausing the race, suspending the race, and in my view,

the suspension of a race should be the neutralising of a race as well, in which case being able to switch tyres can be seen as taking advantage, particularly if, you know, you haven't made your pit stop, as Landstrol had last time out, and you're able to essentially take a free pit stop. There are obvious exceptions to that rule.

if a team can claim that the tire is in such bad shape that they need to change them, then so be it, although theoretically, if the tire is in that bad of a state, they won't be out there anyway. And of course, if it starts raining, who am I kidding, it never rains at their form races. If it starts raining or more likely stops raining and they need to change from wets to dries, that's absolutely fine because everyone on the grid is going to have to do the same. thing. So no advantage is going to be gained. Apart from if, you know, it's going from wet to dry, you have a choice over which tires you want to go on. But that's down to the strategist. I think that's fair play.

In terms of the parts changing, I mostly agree with you, Sam. You know, if it's a neutralising of the race, they should just have to deal with this. And yeah, and you'd have to use a pit stop to check on things normally. so you should do that anyway. Unless again they can prove that this is dangerous, nothing should be changed. It's interesting to hear what the listeners think. Always interesting to hear what the listeners think,

unless you're talking absolute twaddle, and I don't care. I mean, we're the Kings of Twaddle, so I'm not sure we're in a position to judge in that respect. Yeah, late twaddling is our actual name. The Kings of Twaddle was a good name for a band, actually. Yeah, go that one down. I've already got a load noted down that we've accumulated it over the years,

and they're all as bad as each other. Right, should we get out of here for this one? It's already Thursday, so it might be time. Well, yeah, if it's Thursday, that means it's another podcast coming to like. No, we haven't got a race coming up for the first time in what it feels like forever. So we will be creating a normal podcast and video

by strand, usual off on topics, of course, so join us later on in the week for more stuff. It would be great to have you. Let us know what you thought about the race at Twitter and on YouTube. really exciting, get involved there as well. What do you think? Red flags? Yes, no.

What should be going on behind them? Good wing for Hamilton. Shane for Botass. Well done, Album, let us know what you think. It's always interesting to hear your thoughts. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Seed. I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Harry Ene.

And remember, keep breaking light. Cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.