The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Was Ricciardo's return the correct decision?

Episode Date: July 16, 2023

Sam and Ben tackle this week's big F1 news as Daniel Ricciardo returns to the sport at the expense of Nyck de Vries at Alpha Tauri. They discuss whether this was the right decision and what to expect from Ricciardo throughout the rest of this season. Also on today's episode, the guys are joined by F1 YouTuber Aiden Vincent who gives his thoughts on Haas' driver lineup options for 2024. You can check out Aiden's content by clicking on the links below. YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@MrAidenF1 TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mraidenrule?_t=8e2LdTiLdFa&_r=1 Instagram - https://instagram.com/mraidenrule?igshid=YmM0MjE2YWMzOA== Twitter - https://twitter.com/mraidenrule?s=21&t=aC7pKE4R808QHEqrU-FpRQ SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking   JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm   JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: https://fantasy.formula1.com/en/leagues/join/C3CCEW8P704   TWEET us @LateBrakingF1   BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/   EMAIL us at [e-mail]   SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. No, how are you today? Elby Light has returned. Is he at Goodwood or something? I don't even care. I don't care what the excuses are.

anymore. He's a demo version of this podcast. I'm thinking he might be trying to broker a deal to get Nick DeVries somewhere else now. Oh, I mean, it makes sense. He is definitely the man with the gift of the gab. You know, if anyone's going to talk Nick DeVries into a new role, Harry Eag is the man to do it. Sure. Thank you to Harry Ead for filling in for an emergency podcast earlier this week. Of course, of course, the one time that big news was announced on a Tuesday, one day before we typically record, we recorded on a Monday. And that, actually, no, that was because of Harry Ead. So this is all down to Harry. It was his birthday. Oh, I'm having a birthday. Oh, you have it every year, sunshine. Buckle up and get on with the show because we've mucked up

because of you. So naturally, whilst Harry has given some of his thoughts on that move, myself and Sam will be giving our thoughts a little bit later on. We're going to be playing pump the brakes. We're going to be talking Alpha Romeo and how they haven't lived up to expectations this year. Should Hass stick with their lineup for 2024, but we'll just get into the Nick DeVries, Daniel Ricardo move. In case you have been living under a rock, Nick DeVries is no longer at Alpha Tauri. Daniel Ricardo is set to replace him for the rest of the 23 season. Sam, let's just get straight to the main question. Was this the correct decision? Oh, I mean, that is such a loaded and difficult question. It's like saying, you know,

an easy one would be, you know, is getting chicken nuggets after a night out the correct decision? Yes. Right. Very simple, that one. You can chalk that off very quickly. Is replacing Ikda Rees with Daniel Ricardo, Alpha Tower, who are currently arguably the slowest car on the grid, the correct decision, that's a lot harder to break down and kind of decipher whether you think it is correct or not. And I do think that it could be correct for one party, maybe incorrect for another party. And I think you do have to look at it from the two different viewpoints. So let's look at it from Regbwell as a family. Nick DeFries was causing them a lot of negative press, a lot of worry and a lot of financial cost with the destruction of the car that was being

ramped up at the start of the season. Right. And that with a cost cap is very relevant for development for the understanding of how the car might progress. The car is already struggling. So to have one of your drivers cause even more of a struggle internally, not good. Not going to help morale, not going to help growth or develop of both the talent or the car itself, which is not ideal as the famous expression goes. Especially when Yuki Sankoda has arguably done a good job and stepped up this season. He is improved.

Not perfect, but improved. Now, for Alpha Tauri as well, the whole purpose of Alpha Tauri is to nirk talent. It's to take a young talent as part of that Red Bull driver program, or I guess from outside of it, and turn it into what might be a potential world champion or assistant driver to the world champion, if Dwight Shrewt were an F1 driver. You know, because that is, of course, that would be hilarious. But that is, of course, what anyone that pairs up with Max Verstapping is arguably going to be if they come from within the Red Bull program is their aim is to assist Max and get Red Bull the Constructs Championship. Now, when was the last time?

they really brought someone through who could do those things, arguably Daniel Ricardo was the last person to come up to that program where you look at him and go, he's got strengths that can make him a great partner to Max Verstappen. I'd argue that Carlos Sines might have been in the same spot, but there wasn't the availability to get him in the team. But certainly the last one that did actually make the jump, I would agree, was Daniel Ricardo.

Yeah, no, Carlos Sides is a fantastic shout. Of course, we know he didn't ever make it up to that top step. he was one of those that definitely got hit in the Red Bull clogged pipe and was unable to kind of, you know, turn on the spout and let the water run. But yeah, you know, Ricardo coming back, in terms of for Ricardo, I don't know if this is a wing. I don't know if this is a wing for Ricardo. In terms of the viewer, in terms of us as the public that want to just watch,

love it, right? Love the drama. Love Ricardo back on the grid. He's such a big personality that he will shine through. He is a big part of Formula One's. culture. And I think in the growing US market, they bloody love him over there. You know, Netflix love him, drive to survive, love him. Amazon have got a real interesting him as well. He is so, he is essentially the same level, I think, as the likes of Lewis Hamilton and Fernando also in

being a broader worldwide character that people can tap into who are not just F1 only focused. You know, my girlfriend, she saw Daniel ricardo come back at the grid and go, oh, Daniel, glad to going to see you every week. I thought, oh yeah, all right, I get it. I get it. He's a sexy, lovely, talented man. But my point is, on the grid, I think that car could end up being one of the biggest downfalls to Daniel Ricardo's racing career if it goes badly. The car is slow already. He's already come out and said publicly, it's a challenge. It is a real struggle. So I don't think he's going to be out there scoring regular points every single week. He's got to beat Yuki Sanoda, realistically.

But is it the right call? I don't know. Only time will tell. I think get a ring of Nick DeVries, even from my end already, feels a bit savage. But then again, Red Bull had been known to do it

multiple times before. They, what, I think five or six famous occasions where they've already shafted drivers mid-season, Albon, Gassley, who else at the Cleon got shafted. Bordeaux, got kicked out as well, Ben, I think.

Bordeaux. I can never say his name, right? I prefer Bored. Bordeaux. Bordeaux, it is good. And there's another one that I'm forgetting, I think. I think there's at least five that have been kicked out halfway through a season, but I am not remembering.

Anyway, oh, it was someone like Scott Speed, I think was also kicked out halfway through a season. So they like to take these risks. It's the first one they've taken for a little while since Perez has joined the family. Do I think it's the right call? I feel like he was improving week on week. I feel like you could go giving him to the summer break, at least a couple more races.

If it was harsh on Nick DeVries, You know who's to blame here? Helmut Marco. He is the guy that talks about the talent and works through the talent. And if you've had that many interchanges and that many promotions, promotions, promotions, is it a time where you now need to look at the person managing the talent rather than the talent itself? Hard to call if it's a right call. What do you think, Ben?

I think the decision to put Daniel Ricardo in the car was the correct one. I think they just made it seven months too late. I think they should have gone straight in their beginning of the season because we've said it all year that Nick DeVries was an odd choice. Like not an untalented choice, just a bit of an odd choice because it's very rare that I know Sergio Perez came into the Red Bull program from somewhere externally, but he went directly to Red Bull to fill a gap. Whereas Nick DeVries at Alpha Tauri, that team is, as you say, more designed to be a nurturing team. So you don't often see that a driver who is 27, 28 years old, go into the junior team who hasn't been a Red Bull junior driver. I think it was because they've arguably seen what's happened with Sonoda. And I think we've all established that he wasn't ready to jump into that Alfatari seat when he did.

And I think they were conscious not to do the same thing with Liam Lawson or Yuma Owasa or whoever they would put in that. seat. So perhaps they were just looking for Nick DeVries to fill a gap there. But yeah, I think they should have just gone for it earlier than what they have done. Now, I think Daniel Ricardo, some people are suggesting that Daniel Ricardo at 34 years old is far too old to be in an Alfa Tauri seat. And indeed, I was having a look back and I don't think anyone has been older than 30 in Alfa Tauri or Toro Rosso history. I think you have to go back to some Sebastian Bordeaux, or Sebastian Bordeaux, and Brendan Hartley. I think they were both around 29 or so when they came into the team or when they were in the team. But I don't think anyone's ever been

close to 34 years old that Daniel Ricardo is. But I'm not bothered about that. I think overall Alfa Tauri should be, it shouldn't be restricted to young drivers. It should be restricted to projects. And I think in 95% of occasions, a project would be a young driver. But in the instance of Daniel Ricardo, I think it's a bit of an exception where I think he does have the potential to go back into Red Bull, but they need to, just as they do, a young drivers, needs to do a finding out process of actually getting him in Alfa Tauri and seeing if he can rediscover the form he had five years ago or whether the McLaren days have kind of ruined him from here on out. So I completely think it's okay that they've gone for an older

driver here. I don't think it should be just young drivers that go through that program. I actually think, I've had a mold over this. I think Red Bull have had this in the works all season. So here's what I think Red Bull's situation was at the beginning of this year. Rightly or wrongly, I think they needed to see from Daniel Ricardo behind the scenes whether they could get rid of all his bad habits at McLaren. We know how different McLaren driving a McLaren and was to driving a Red Bull. I think they needed to spend time with him behind the scenes to correct his style. And I think they'd rather have done that out of the public eye than in it. So certainly, you know, he might have struggled in the same way that Nick DeVries did, at which point maybe

people are calling for him to be removed, rather than if he's struggling on the simulator, no one can see it. No one's talking about it in the media. So I think that's probably one of the reasons why they've done this. And ultimately, they had, let's say, two questionable drivers at Alfatari this season. Yes, you're absolutely right. Yuki Sanoda has done better than I think any of us thought he would have done. But there were serious questions about is this his last season. And those questions probably still exist. And could he live up to his potential? And the same questions about Nick DeVries, basically a rookie going into that sea. I think Red Bull looked at that situation and said, we're banking on probably one of those two not working out. In this situation,

it's DeVries. Could have easily been the other way around. Could have been. Sonoda. And I think at that point, they're thinking mid-season, Daniel Ricardo gets to come into that seat. He's had a bit of time behind the scenes to get used to the car again, get rid of the old McLaren habits, and he's in a better situation to join the team. As I mentioned, I would have done it at the beginning of the season to give him a bit more time for Alfa Tari. So if they are potentially looking at him for 24 in the Red Bull, they've got more of a sample size. But I think that's what their decision-making process was. Do you think, do you think that might have been the case?

I think we are obviously speculating for those who are listening, but I think, Ben, your reasoning is very plausible. It makes a longer sense. Your most marketable asset, as much as Maxwell Staping, is an incredibly marketable person. He doesn't enjoy that limelight. He doesn't enjoy the cameras on him. He doesn't want, you know, dramatic TV programs made about him

unless it's all himself. Ricardo does want all that, right? Ricardo, you say, you know, Alpha Tari is a project area. I agree. That makes the way you describe it, it makes total sense. What is Ricardo's project? It is the marketability

that he also brings alongside his driving talent. Ricardo probably won't ever be a world, a world title holder. That's the truth, really. If he does move up to Red Bull, does he realistically beat Verstappen? Now, for Stappen is at the peak of his powers? Unfortunately, I don't think so.

If you've given them the Red Ball in 2019 that they have now, but have the 2019-level drivers, I think Ricardo would have beating Vastapen to the title. I think he's just, a victim of the time a little bit is Ricardo. But Ricardo brings so much more. He can, he has got the raw ability to bring them home a Constructors' Championship if they were to elevate him next season. He can do that. You're right. Let's get out all the niggles, all the weird

habits. Is he confident behind the wheel of a car at the moment? He might be really lacking in self-confidence. Can he hit the brakes as late as he used to or have they gone? You know what? Here's where Max is breaking. You hit the brakes there. Again, hit the brakes there and work it back into him. He can do it and he is good enough to do it, get that out of his system. And Nick DeVries is unfortunately a bit of a doorstop. You know, he's a holding point. He's keeping the door open a little bit for Ricardo to step in. Should Ricardo ever realized himself?

If he doesn't ever realize himself, they go, we gave him a season to try, Nick DeVries. He hasn't lived up to us. We'll move on to Iwasa or Lawson, who are both doing fantastically well in their respective seasons. And they've gone, thanks for filling in the seat, mate. You work what we were looking for. We'll move on.

they've also done a great job and not damaging Ricardo's overall image, right? The way he got to speak to Ford, he was one of the first people to speak to Ford publicly when they did the partnership launch. He's been the person that's going around the scenes to all of the pop-up areas that Red Bull have been doing, all the hospitality zones that Red Bull have been doing.

He is still very much one of the key faces of the Red Bull family, and they know his strengths. They understand what he brings to it. So you're entirely right. I don't think they want to damage him in terms of an image basis, live on the track where they can't repair it later on. Yeah, from a marketability standpoint, I don't know if you saw this. And I can't quite remember who posted it, but it's there for everyone to see. I think someone just posted in Formula One's Instagram, just like the last nine posts or the last 12 posts.

This would have been a few days ago now. It's just all Daniel Ricardo. I don't think anyone is happier about Daniel Ricardo being back than Formula One itself because of how marketable he is. I would probably say outside of Lewis Hamilton, he is the most marketable driver on the grid. I think if you were to ask, let's say a US-based talk show, like a late-night talk show, you can have anyone from Formula One, who do you want? I think Hamilton is probably the top of the list. I think Ricardo's probably second. And no disrespect to Daniel Ricardo whatsoever. But if you're talking about, let's say, the most marketable drivers in the sport, it's probably himself, Hamilton, Vastappen, based on his achievements, and maybe Fernando Alonzo. And I think in the instance of all the other three, they're all world champions, I think a lot of their marketability comes from their success. And that's not to say Daniel Ricardo hasn't had success, but relative to those other three names, he hasn't. So I think he

his market's ability almost transcends his performances on track to a degree. And, yeah, I mean, Red Bull have already taken advantage of that. Obviously, they had him there at the Ford launch at the beginning of the season, and he's been front and center on a number of occasions already this year, and now he's back in a seat. That's going to help them even more. I did just want to say on the Nick DeVries point about whether it's harsh on him. And I was interested to have a look at this, because you spoke,

about Red Bull and how they can be quite cut-froat in what is already a very cut-froats sport. Interestingly enough, that hasn't really extended to the junior team as much. So I had a look at the three drivers outside of Nick DeVries. The three other drivers that have had the fewest race starts for Torosso or Alpha Tauri, and they are Sebastian Vettel, Max Verstappen, and Alex Albin. And what do those three drivers all have in common? Well, they got promoted, baby. They got promoted.

So the only reason they left the junior team was to go to the senior team. So actually, if you discard those three because they weren't booted out, the next driver again is Harry's favourite, Brendan Hartley. Brendan Hartley had 25 race starts for Toro or so. It's over a season. That's over a season. Back there, that's not far off one and a half seasons that he got in the car. And that's two and a half times as many races.

is as Nick DeVries has got. So whilst I think it's, yes, Red Bull as a whole have that culture about them, I found it very interesting that actually hasn't generally extended to the junior team.

They have given most of their drivers a lot of time. You think, Yuki San Odor, obviously, his partner, three years now. You probably have to go further back. There hasn't actually been

that much change in the team as you'd think there have been. But, you know, Pierre Gazley got a lot of time there after. he was demoted and John Eric Fern got a couple of years and Kaviat got promoted, but he had years there. That man is a yo-yo of Formula One, up and down.

Yeah. So yeah, I've just thought that was interesting. Oh, I agree. Does that stat, you think, make Nick DeVries the least successful Red Bull family driver of all time? I think if you discard a couple of names that only had a cut. couple of races. So Robert Duhnbos as an example. But certainly he, he would be up there for sure. But, you know, he is, it is harsh to an extent. I do think it's harsh. I think you can say that

it's the right decision and at the same time say it's harsh. Yeah. I mean, I had, like you said before this, I had a conversation with myself about this humanity in me says, this is tough. This is a mainstream, despite him coming into the sport later than a lot of people, he deserves to have his go. You know, he's a world champion of two different sports, you know, F2 and Formula E. That's fantastic. But at the same time, F1 ain't no togler camp, baby. You ain't getting nursed here. You're not, you know, you're not getting nurtured. Now, you're in the top 20 drivers of all time. And every single driver worldwide has got a side eye on any open F1C. And I reckon, no matter what class of driver you're speaking to,

if someone said to them, are you interesting on that seat, if I could get you in front of the team, they would go, I wouldn't say no to a conversation, whether that be Indico, or that be WEC, whether that be Rally,

whether it would be motocross. I think a lot of people would look at that and go, if I could drive it competitively, I'm pretty keen to have a going of Formula One car. So at the same time, yeah, if you don't step up, if you're not going to be to a certain standard,

get out. But has he been really that much worse than a few of the rookies we've seen previously. Was it worse than Mazepin, for example? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And, you know, you would put him on a similar pedestal, say Mick Schumacher, probably. And Mick Schumacher got a lot more time than Nick DeVries got.

I think from Red Bull's perspective, they just came to the conclusion that I'm with you. I disagree that there hasn't been any progress. I know that was their number one reason for giving this decision. I think there has been some progress. But I think Red Bull knew that that. even if you progressed further, it was never going to happen in a Red Bull seat,

at which point, what are you doing? You might as well move on. Yeah. So I think if, I think, I don't know what's next for Nick DeVries, but if he had started at another team,

let's say, let's say it started at Williams. He's probably given all of this season. He's probably given all of next season. And at that point, if he's done enough, he can carve out a career as a, maybe a solid midfield driver.

I think that was probably, and could still be, the best case scenario of his career, but it's just about where you start and the situations that develop, I guess. But that's what worries me about Daniel Ricardo. I know Daniel Ricardo has his history, he's got eight race wings,

people love him. So yes, you've got that that is separate. But if he comes into this Alpha Tauri team and from Hungary through to the rest of the season, he's crap, like terrible, like being in the car, losing to Sengoda, spinging it regularly. And it could happen.

You saw how off the pace he wasn't McLaren. He's now being out of a seat for, you know, what, three quarters of a year? It could happen. So what happens to him? Does he, do they go, actually, Daniel, you've been worse than Yuki for the last 10 to 15 races. What's the point in elevating you if you want to do a better job than Perez? And then where does he go? Well, exactly.

Yeah. And that's something we'll get into a bit later on in the show. We're going to come back to Daniel Ricardo a bit later on just to discuss expectations, what he can achieve for the rest of this year, which I think leaves us at a pretty good point to take our first break. On the other side, we'll be discussing Hass. Do they stick with their 2023 lineup for 2024? Welcome back. In the absence of late breaking light, Harry Ead not being here. We have at least temporarily managed to get ourselves back up to three members because we are joined, thankfully, by Aidan, who is a Formula One YouTuber, editor, video guy, and most importantly,

representing Cornwall. Nothing else. Nothing else is important outside of that. I'm a farmer, lads. I'm here I represent Cornwall with my 22 toes and my sister. It's my girlfriend.

There you go. I can't believe that we've managed to get rid of one host and yet brought another person back on and they are also from the Southwest community. How have you managed to do this,

Ben? That is just ridiculous. He's got a type. Exactly. Very well defined. Yeah. If you're north of the Tamar, I'm not interested.

Anyway, thank you very much for coming on for this topic, Aidan. Really appreciate it. We wanted to talk a little bit about Hasse and their line up for 2024, as neither of their drivers are yet confirmed for next season. So they have started to indicate they'd like to make this decision sooner rather than later, which in turn might indicate that they're looking at retaining both the services of Holkenberg and Magnuson. What are your initial thoughts?

Do you think both of them have done enough to deserve another season? Or do you think there's someone else out there that might take on the mantle? I mean, it's hard. I think HAST is one of those teams at the minute. I was trying to think, like, how to describe them. And the conclusion I came to was like, do you know when you go like go car and with your friends when you're a bit younger? And then like the two dads that have obviously driven you all there

also come and drive around with you. And they're just sort of like, you don't, you sort of forget about them. And suddenly just like a 40-year-old man with a kid drives past you. That's sort of the vibe they give off in the F-1 grid. I mean, they're just two very, not mid, well, they are mid, they're very mid drivers, but they're both very solid. I think for Hasse, it was great to have them because after the last few seasons of

whatever the hell was going on, they needed like a stable lineup, and I think they are very stable, but they don't have much like shine to them, I think. So I think they probably both will stay in that car for next year because Hasse just need to try and get on top of their car before they worry about their drivers too much more. but I think realistically they need to have almost like, I don't really rate Mick Schumacher at all, but I would probably rate having someone like Mick or a younger driver in there to at least be developing

and who could maybe be something special to go alongside one of those two as like a stable sort of baseline, I suppose. But I don't know, what do you lot think? It's a tough one, isn't it? Sam, what are your thoughts? I mean, we all know my thoughts on harsh, the imposters of the grid. Yeah, I mean, the issue with this is,

are the drivers the problem, or are the team, are the background, you know, is the management, the development, the problem? I think Holkerberg has coming, I think, smashed everyone's understanding of where he was meant to be. I think we all kind of saw him as a seat filler. He'd do a year. You know, and everyone would go, yeah, all right, it's Hulk.

He used to be good. And now he's kind of aged young a bit. He's had some time out of the car. And it's being a bit, ah, all right, fine. But he is, he's being solid. And when I say solid, I mean, he's out driven that car from what I expecting him to do. And he's quite comfortably smashing Magnuson, I think, in the terms of, the opinion polls. I think as much as you know, the points difference don't make too much for,

you know, glamorous reading between the two of them. Colquenberg, in terms of qualifying, regular race pace, performances, finishing positions is by far the leading driver. And I'm quite surprised because I always rating Magnuson and Holgerberg, there's very equal standard drivers. When I were to think about drivers that could fit into that mould, those two names have always come up. And Magnuson knows that team. He knows how the team works. He was there before he took that year out. He's very accustomed to how the team functions. So to see him in such turmoil, especially after what he did to Grosjeun and whatnot as well,

you know, he was comfortably better than Romang, and you see what Romano's off doing now. I was quite surprised to see the difference between Holgerberg and Magnuson. Would I keep them both? The question is, would I keep either of them? That's really a problem. And I think the problem for Haas,

again, this is a Haas problem, not a driver problem, is who are they attracting? Who are they really, you know, going to be bringing into the, the role that isn't a, oh, Ferrari need a junior driver spot because we provide you with our engines, so therefore there's a seat that can open up, can we stick someone, you know, like a Giovannazzi version of now could go into that seat? You know, could Alfa Romeo go, we'll lend you a driver for a year. We want Taylor-Poor Cher to get some miles around the F1 calendar. Can we put him in a seat?

I think the only way they actually get anyone of any reasonable talent and growth is not through their own doing. I think it's through bartering and trading and lending. And that is not going to, again, set Hars up for a long-term success. I mean, I don't think Hars do anything to promote long-term success. I can't remember what are they doing on that grid. My point is here that whether you keep Magnus and Hulkeberg, whether you get rid of one or the other, Holkerberg seems like the logical option at the moment.

That's just through performances currently. What are you bringing in, though? Is it a nurturing ground where you can promote young drivers and aid them and do what Williams have started to do with Alex Albon, who I know has got some experience, but he has very vocally explained. He's into Williams for the long haul. He's a team league in there.

He loves the development. He's part of the project. You need to get someone behind Haas, who's of the same caliber, the same age range, the same experience. And I feel like Haasas haven't got that marketability to set themselves up for actual long-term promotion and success. It needs a complete re-haul.

I know that the listeners of the podcast. I've heard me say this multiple times before, but it does. So regardless of who you're bringing in, two F2 drivers, it could be, you know, go out and get, I don't know, I'm making this up now. Yuki-Singolder and Logan Sargent, it doesn't matter who you're bringing to the team. What a lineup. What a line up, that could be, right? The bill could be through the roof coming of the year.

But it won't provide you with success if the car and the infrastructure isn't set up for success. So that's kind of where I'm at, Ben. Any thoughts? I think Hasse were burned by their pivoting of philosophy a couple of years ago, because obviously they did have Grosjean and they had Magnuson. And rather than replace one at a time, they just decided to go all out and say, right, we're bringing in two rookies to the sport, which is just so rare. You barely ever see two rookies join the team at the same time. And to put it mildly, it didn't work.

If Mick Schumacher is the successful one of the two, that is not a great indication of how well that's gone. So, yeah, they look back at that from only a couple of years ago and probably think we don't want to change too much too soon to avoid the same situation happening again. I think overall, similar to what you mentioned, I think they've got too stable, pretty mature drivers.

Kevin Magnuson's made a lot of strides in that regard. I think he's far more steady than he was pre his exit, his first exit from F1. So I think it's a stable partnership. And I think they've kind of got to a point where if we bring on a young driver or a rookie driver, one of two things might happen. Number one is that they end up being Nikita Mazepin, probably not what you're looking for.

Or the alternative to that is they're really good, let's say Charles LeClaura Alpha Romeo a few years ago, and they only stick around for one year, in which case you don't actually get much benefit from hiring them. I think they've probably gone towards a direction of, let's take drivers who are experienced, well into their career, good, probably not going to get any better than good, but we know that other teams aren't going to be,

screaming for their services. Like nobody's out there for Holkenberg or Magnuson going, we desperately need them in our car. So I think that's potentially what they're looking for. If I'm looking at a young driver, maybe poor share is the one. But I think that's at least why they are maybe leading towards Holkenberg and Magnuson again. Well, do like Hats actually have any, like they have fit a poverty.

I know that. But other than that, I can't actually think of any junior drivers or young drivers that are sort of associated with Hasse. And I think that's their main issue. They're just like, I think I have all the teams on the grid. Like, if you're a young driver of Unupy prospects, a lot of the midfield to lower down teams do have sort of a sense of progression to them.

Like you said, Alpha Romeo, even though they're a bit in that for the minute, you think with Audi in a few years, that could pop off so it's worth the risk. You know, if you're going to Alpha Tauri, you know, that could get to Red Bull. It's worth doing. And all those.

But whereas Hasse is just sort of like, if it feels like if you just want a BNF1 and you need a seat, you can go to HASS and you'll be an F1 driver. but I just feel like there's no progression in there. It's sort of in NASCAR as well with their Stuart Hass team. It's very similar. Like they're losing their top driver and now. The rest are just sort of like sat there.

They're just drivers. They're just very much. You forget about them most of the time. They're just there. And I think Hasse just need to, like I said, they either need to pull out or reschedule everything or whatever they want to do, like restructure or something because I think when they first came in, like I said they, I can't remember how they finished in their first season.

I think it was like P6 or something like that. P5 or P6, yeah. Yeah, they established themselves as like a probably midfield team. like sort of like where Alpine is sitting now and you're like, okay, this could be, they could build up from here, they could be a solid midfield team, but they just seems like slowly drop back and then in qualifying, they'll have these one-off appearances every now and then where they just absolutely smash it. But in the race, their car just can't, which munches through tires, I think, doesn't it? Yeah.

How was that at work? How do you design a car where tires don't work on your race car? It's good for three laps. Yeah. You know, that's like saying, oh, I've designed a human being where the mouth can only take one bite of food and then it dies. It's like it really is quite an essential pivotal part of, you know, a human being or a race car. It needs ties to go around the track. I think if I was to formulate a bit of a plan for them, I would go and raid Aston Martin.

And I would go, Aston Martin, you have some good mechanics, some engineers, some researchers. We'll also take Drogovic. We'll spend a bit of cash. We'll bring Drogovic, in who's a previous F2 champion, he's worked with Aston Martin. He sat alongside the likes of a longso and weirdly launched stroll. I can't believe I'm bringing him up in this conversation. but Stroll is probably the same level as what Hasse are. You know, he's a young enough driver that you get.

I know, I know it's savage. You get plenty of years out of Druggovich. I don't know if that's more offensive to Stroll or to Hasse. I don't know if he should be more offended in that comparison. In that case, it's just a straight high five. They can just sit together and be bad. But, you know, Drugovich has got potential. He was always pretty good in F2.

He did eventually win the F2 championship. He's got years behind him where he could grow. Get rid of one of your guys. guys because either Holgerberg or Magnuson can be your, your clever head, your old man, the one that helps development, right? The one that goes, this, this feedback isn't working. Drugovich, who's done now a lot of test driving for Askin Martin, which you might remember quite good this season, could actually bring in some new ideas and some new points. And also, we'll want time on the F1 actual grid racing the car. So for me, that feels like a cheeky way to go ahead

and steal some expertise and some knowledge. But if you're asked, what really? looks good. It just feels like a bit of a stopgap. Like, you're, you're the paid ad. You're the, I want to pay for some followers, so I'll go to Hars for a bit, you know. I need a step into the game working I offload a couple of million quid to get myself a drive. Hasse will take me. That's what it feels like. There's no prestige. There's no lift to them as a brand. You know, they've got no money gram or whatever they're called. Is their bloody sponsor? There's nothing exciting about them. It's just a bit embarrassing. Are you calling Ha? like the F1 version of Twitter blue.

Yes. That is a phenomenal phenomenal comparison. Yes, that's what they are. Exactly the same. To be fair, they're trying to be like, you know, America's F1 team.

That was their big thing. They came in like, like, up the stars and stripes, you know, they love it. Like, they, they love it.

Why don't they get into bed with Mr. Andretti who's gagging for an F1's team, honestly, but F1 don't want to let him in there. He's trying to like, what, I can't remember who he tried to get a deal with.

I think it might have been, I think it was Alfa Mayer, wasn't it, before I already got in there. Like, why don't they? I know it might just be, you know, the two big American race team owners, they don't want to, like, join forces.

But I think that could be their best bet because at least with Andretti behind them, they'll have a bit of prestige to the team. Like, I know Hass is obviously a big name in racing, but, you know, Andretti is arguably, well, not even arguably, it's just bigger, isn't it? And they have the drivers in other formulas

that could even, like, want to dip their toes to Formula One. They have that backing. And I think they can even just get some homegrown talents from America, which I'm sure exists. There's definitely some good American single-seater drivers there that could then make the jump over and then it might be a longer process but at least

you can again you can see the progression if you're a young driver especially an american young driver i know that a lot of our listeners who are american um aid of your upbringing about 54% of our audience are from the states and fortunate sorry to hear that mate i'll enjoy that um please don't leave us liscus please don't leave us um but my point here is i think a lot of them share the viewpoint that has are not the team they support. They don't have any pride about Haas. They're not celebrating Haas.

They don't claim them as the American F-1 team. But you're right. And I've said this on previous episodes that Haas have such a niche opportunity that they could become the All-American team. They can have such a massive market backing them and the funding they could get, the sponsorship they could get,

the amount of TV time they could bring in, especially how we have three US Grand Prix. We're opening so many doors for them. Out of all the teams, Haas are probably the one team that need to leave. the current constructors that provide engines and go and get something American. They should have gone after Ford.

They should have gone after General Motors or Cadillac. It shouldn't have been waiting, oh, we'll just keep picking up off Ferrari, who arguably, you know, as we've seen, not exactly leading the way at the moment. Go out and take a risk. Do something exciting and fun, please, because the opportunity is there for you more so than anyone else. They just don't exploit it. So to go back to the very original question, who do they sign?

No one, because no one's going to come, keep Magneson-Hulkeberg, at least they're safe. They are safe. And at least to your point on Felipe Drogovich, I mean, that could work. The problem is that drivers who, it's still a risk, because drivers who have one F2, not in their first season, haven't had a great track record over the last few years in the, well, that Mick Schumacher is probably the prime example. Nick DeVries is the other one.

So it's been quite a while, and I can't immediately think off the top of my head, but since a driver who didn't win F2 in the first season has gone particularly well in F1. So that would be a risk in its own right. I agree with one of the first things you said, Sam, in that fundamentally they just have to sort the core of their team out. They just need a better car. That sounds really simple and straightforward. But until they get that right, it feels like drive a lineup and even maybe power unit to an extent.

they feel like surplus to requirement to some degree. It's just, you could have, you could nail all of that. You can nail this, nail that, now that. If the core central part of your team that is creating that car isn't good enough, it's still going to be somewhere near the back. And I think a longer term plan is needed. Yeah, there you go. All right.

So in conclusion, a hash washed. A hash washed. Is that what we're saying? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that will do. That's a good conclusion.

Before you go, Aidan, would you like to plug away? Yes, I'll like to plug away my fantastic, phenomenal, groundbreaking YouTube channel where I make videos on motorsport and F1 stuff. No one else is doing that. No one. Not a single soul. Name one person. Exactly. Americans, I know I was nasty to you, but you enjoy it. You'll love it. There's big cars involved. And I do like you.

I just like making jokes you because you're very easy pickings. But yeah, it's Mr. Oden Rule on literally everything. I make F1 stuff, motorsport stuff. I chat quite a lot on TikTok as well. And basically, I just shout quite a lot. I'm getting better in my old age of 22, calming down. But I used to shout a lot more. Too old.

Almost too old to making YouTube videos. So I need more subs because it's embarrassing if I don't have any more by the time I get too old. I get too older. Otherwise you get in our situation. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Invite to the two-year-olds to come. one. I know. You end up just doing a podcast, mate. Of course, Agen, thank you for coming. All the links to Agan's stuff will be in the description of the show. So go and check him out. He's a good laugh.

He's a great bit of banter. And thank you for coming on, mate. We've loved having you. There is as. Thanks for having me. Hope you give you some technical insight. You really have. We appreciate it. Okay, welcome back. Again, thank you very much to Aden for jumping on with us for the last topic. Before we get into our next topic, apologies, beef. I forgot to do this midweek. I think it's because be recorded on a Monday, and that just threw me off. But a bit late, F1 Fantasy Update after the British Grand Prix. We are fast approaching halfway through this season. So, what have we got? We've got a new leader at the top. We've got, I love this name. We've got Pocket Man.

Thanks, Pelton, John. Yep. So new leader at the top in Pocketman. The British Grand Prix winner in our league was we race as nuns. The Holy Racing League. With 315 points. An update on the three of us. I've dropped to 41st overall. Ghazley and Holcomberg keep letting me down and Perez as well, to be honest with you.

Vastappans just keep saving me a little bit. Sam, you are 290th, which according to Beef means you are still in the top half. Proud of that. Harry Eads not. 369th for Harry. Boy, 69! There's a 300 in front of it. God damn it.

Don't want to work out the physics of that. Anyway, and Beef, Beef said she can't believe she keeps on falling. She didn't even say what position she's in, which tells me that it's not very good. Behind Harry, that's a real shocker. Yeah. Come on, beef. I believe in you. So that's where we're out with F1 Fantasy.

Hopefully, after the Hungarian Grand Prix, will actually give an update on the next episode rather than two episodes after, but that does rely on me remembering. So who knows? Let's move on. Valtrey Bottas. He has admitted that Alfa Romeo has not,

it's not gone to plan in 2023. They're not where he had hoped or expected they would be. They're currently ninth in the championship on exactly nine points. And last year, of course, they finished P6. So they are a few positions off where they were and they had 55 points last year.

So there are ways off where they were and they had 51 points by this point last season. Are you surprised that they are where they are? No, if I'm going to be completely honest. And I've mentioned this on the show before. I think Alpha Mayo are simply in a holding pattern. I think they are demotivated. I think they are looking to the future.

And I think they think what's really the point in investing loads of cash, loads of time, loads of energy into the current development cause when they know within the space of, and let's be, you know, let's be prudently honest. Alpha and may have going to turn around and become Constructors world champions in the space of two years, right? Audi are coming in in the space of two years. They're going to lose the Alpha andero sponsorship.

and then they're going to have a, what's it, one year where they're just a Salber again, and then it goes over to Audi. Now, it's like when you quit your job, you've got what, your notice period, do you think got a month? Do I put in the hardest month of work, or do I have the best 30 days of all time where I just sit, the checkdown. Yeah, I have moved on, right?

We've all done it, folks, and you're lying to yourself, if you think, oh, I've handing my notice. I'll go to work and work hard. tomorrow, Alfredo mayo have handing their notice. They're on their way out. They're leaving. Now, if Valtrey Bottas realistically thought, the team I'm joining are going to be more motivated than ever to produce success when our new Audi overlords are going to come in and take their place at the helm, why would you be realistically? Alpha Amaya, why would they spend loads of money? Why would they put loads of time into development when they're not going to be in the sport for much

longer. It just, you know, F1's an expensive business. It's pricey. It's a, you know, a rich man's game. Why would they bother using all that expertise in time when they're not going to be around for the long haul to reap back any further success? I just, I understand his disappointment and his frustrations. He went from potentially winning races or getting pole position every single race weekend

to cruising around in 17th place most race weekends. That is a culture shock. I get it. It's a bit of a change in the system. But what were you really expected with the team you're joining? is going to cease to exist in the space of three years' time. It just feels obvious to me. I don't know why it's such a shock to him.

Yeah, it's not particularly surprising, I don't think. And if you look at it as a continuation from last season, of course the cars haven't fundamentally changed versus last year. Yes, they had 55 points last year. Again, they had 51 points by this point. They only had four in the last 13 races of the year. So whilst they were finishing in sixth place, for the second half of the season, they were probably ninth or so where they are now.

So really, it has logically continued on. It feels a little bit similar to Hass, in a way. Hasse were pretty good at the beginning of last season. But I think in the same way, both of these teams, they've just seen other better resourced, better overall teams catch up the likes of Alpine and Aston Martin and McLaren

all of them that they have eventually caught up and quite comfortably surpassed Alfa Romeo and Haas so neither of those teams looked any better than they did at the beginning of last season. So no, I'm not surprised by this.

It is funny to think that Alpha Romeo versus Aston Martin was a nail-biting fight for P6 last year. They have course finished on exactly the same number of points. Alfa Romeo ultimately winning on, I don't even remember the position, but they would have Yeah, I can't remember which one it was. But yes, that's what would have been the tiebreaker.

And to think that they were level on points last season. And at this point in 2023, the score line is, Aston Martin, 181, Alpha Romeo 9, just proves how quickly things can change in this sport. because beginning of last season, Aston Martin were probably the ninth fastest car. I'm trying to think who was slower than Ashton. Their turnaround is actually sensational, the way they've gone from being essentially the back of the grid

to arguably regularly being the second or third fastest car. It's incredible. I don't think it's really down to line up. I don't, I'm Botas and Zhoguan Yew, I think is a relatively weak lineup in the sport. I don't think there's many that are worse. But at the same time, I don't actually think it matters all that much.

I think you could put better drivers in that car, and it probably doesn't do much more than what they're doing with it. I mean, the car is the problem. It's not unreliable. In fact, I was having a look at this. They've only had one DNF all year. The only other team that can say they've had the same number of DNFs is McLaren, and the only team that can say reliability-wise,

they are better than Alfa Romeo is Red Bull, who have had no retirements. But outside of that, they're perfectly reliable, but the car's just not fundamentally not good enough. It's just rubbish. It is. It's a shame if your theory on this is correct in that it is a bit of a biding their time exercise, because long term, we might get, we might as fans reap the rewards of that if Audi can be competitive and competing for wins or podiums, then in a few years' time, we might say, thank goodness they made this transition, but at least for now, maybe we do have a team that is

kind of just there to complete the numbers, which is a bit of a disappointment. The only thing I would say on your point is, in 2026, we know that, we know that Audi are coming in, that will be a big transition in its own right. We know power units are changing. That will be a big change. But the cars aren't themselves changing all that much. Is it at all a worry for you that if their car isn't good enough over the next few years, that's not going away. It's still a development year on year of the same overall package. If they can't keep up, are already going to be fighting from behind in the same way that Alfa Mayo are? Well, yeah, it's a very good question. And I had thought about the dimensions of this.

And I don't know if the Alfa Romeo engineers or the Salba engineers are going to to be the same individuals that are the Audi engineers. But of course, if you are Audi, you're going to be looking at your baby that's currently developing and growing, and you're thinking, I'm not growing in the right way at the moment, are you? If anything, you're shrinking, if you're going to inherit, inherent, inherit a project, English is hard folks, then you want it to be as strong and as big as possible. So what could those engineers be doing? You arguably want everything applied to the car as much as possible. You have bought this project rather than entering a brand new team because, you know, you want that head start. You want the kicks out. You want the partnership

that Salba bring. And if Salba are the partnership, then that means that there is a running duality between both Alfa Mayo that will then turn into Audi. So I would be having words. I would be going, what's going on here? You know, I know that you're in a holding pattern. I know that maybe you're the most motivated people in the world right now, but this is going to be our project. We pay big money to become this leading, you know, title sponsor, whatever you want to call it in the dimensions that it works. And our engine is going to sit in this car. What's going on with the aerodynamics?

What's going on with the chassis? Why is the car not up to scratch? Why are we not a midfield running car at least at the moment? Why are we struggling to pick up points in all but one or two races across this whole season so far? It's worrying. And Audi is such a big potential content. tender in Formula One.

They really could be the biggest addition to Formula One. Since I would say Mercedes backing what, 2012, 2013 when they reentered the sport, Audi really is. 2010, yeah. 2010, thank you, sorry. Audi really are an absolute Goliath of automotive and automobile engineering that we want them to stick around. So if they're going to succeed, they need the groundworks to succeed and Alpha

America currently aren't provided them. So I think it's a very good point. what is going on internally, where have they already transitioned some of the engineers and actually they're not providing what is needed? I don't know. Obviously, we're not inside minds. We can't see what's going on in there. But if your Audi's Formula One team, you know, the runners of that, before you've actually taken over, I'd be asking some questions. Mr. Salba, why are they not doing the job they need for when we come in, please? Yeah, I'm not too fussed about 2023. I know it's not great for them this year. I'm not too worried if it gets better or worse. But certainly if

2024, there's no improvement on where they are right now, for me, that's starting to alarm bells. Because you can have all the way in the world behind you as a company like Audi. If you are starting from 9th, it's not going to turn around straight away. I mean, you've already mentioned Aston Martin's turnaround has been sensational, and it's going to be very difficult to replicate, but even that didn't happen overnight. That still took time. I think Audi would even need the same sort of miracle, or I think better for them would be continual progress over the next few years to the point where they are picking up a team that is maybe again back at P6 in the championship or P5, or just solidly in the mix for points every race, because,

naturally the journey to the top is then not quite as large. Do you think that Audi are at risk of becoming what Renault to Alpine were, where they have the weight of the world behind them? Ringo or a Goliath thing in automotive ability. Can't achieve anything major. Remains to be seen. I mean, a lot of it is going to be down to how, what their power unit is like,

and perhaps a bigger question is whether power units will be as different as they were in 2014. So at the moment, it doesn't really matter what your power unit is. You're about as level as everyone else. But in 2014, that was a long way from the case. And you know, you definitely wanted a Mercedes power unit. You definitely didn't want a Honda power unit. And the other two were somewhere in the middle of that. I think when we reached 2026, if we do start to see these margins between teams because of the power unit,

then, you know, and they get it right, then suddenly they do have the potential to do better than what Renault and Alpine have done over the last few years. If it turns out that power unit doesn't end up maturing in the same way we've kind of got now, suddenly more emphasis is back on the car again. And if that car hasn't made progress over the last few years, then they are going to be fighting from behind. And it's very difficult when you are doing so to catch up because everyone else is making strides at the same time you are. We know that there's not as many opportunities to outspend in the same way that there were years ago. And even with the opportunity to outspend,

Alpine and Renault couldn't properly get amongst the top couple of teams. Audi aren't going to have that privilege. So I think certainly 24 and 25 are going to be really important years to set the foundations. And if they don't, they could be in trouble come 26. Interesting.

Let's move on because we wanted to mention Daniel Ricardo a little bit more because he hasn't got enough air time already today. Honestly, the amount of questions that have spun out from this Ricardo DeVries decision is quite ridiculous. But we wanted to focus on his expectations for the rest of this year. He seems pretty confident that he can get up to speed straight away. Would you agree with that? Do you think he can get on a pace that he would be happy with, almost from the off? I mean, I'd be shocked if someone walks in day one, they're as good as they physically can be.

You know, even for someone like Ricardo's caliber, who has won races, who has led Grand Prix, who has overtaken the best and gone will to will with the best, I think I almost don't want him to be his best by day one, because that's surprising. I don't think anything anyone ever does on day one is as good as they can be. Despite him coming back in from, you know, a small hiatus away from the sport, I do think that it's going to take at least a Grand Prix weekend to get himself fully back into the comfort zone of completing a full race distance, running qualifying. And you've got to remember, this is the worst car he's driven since he was in Tororoso

a decade ago now. You know, it was, it's... Even those Torosos are probably better than what he's going to have now. Maybe. If I remember correctly, maybe. This old Hispanic racing that, you know... Back to HRT. Yeah, you know, that might be the level that he's looking at at the moment.

And that is, he's done all the testing, the rest of the rest. Red Bull. He's done the laps of the Red Bull. He's been in the Red Bull simulator, looking at the likes of Max for Stappers' time's performances that he's comparing it with. I do think that of all the drivers that could possibly step into a seat at the moment, Ricardo is the most likely to get up to speed the fastest. I would be incredibly shocked if he managed to out drive Sanova on pure pace alone, just in Hungary Race 1. But it's quite impossible. Riccano is a fantastic driver on his day. He could, in theory, do it. Yeah, my opinion is that I have lower expectations for the first couple of races.

To be honest, Hungary and then Belgium, sort of that double header, I'm not fussed at all what he does. He could... Don't crash the car? Pretty much. And even if he does, let's say he crashes the car 80% of a way into a Grand Prix. I'm not even overly fussed by that. As long as he's getting track time and just getting adjusted to the car. The results, I think, for the first two races before the summer break, I'm not overly interested in them.

Where he's going to make or break the rest of his career, quite possibly, will be after the summer break. And there's more races after the summer break than they used to be. He's still going to have, what, 12 races? 11 race, something like that. So he's going to have a lot of time on the track after the summer break to get used to the car and score points. I think these two, you know, the track of climatization practice program, you get on the F1 game. Yes, unfortunately I do. That's just going to be the next two races for him, I think.

Just can you hit the apex and okay speed? Yeah, that'll be him. And then he'll get some northern race engine here going, great job, Daniel. You've hit the apex. F1, 2010. even before Daniel Ricardo was in the sport. But yeah, I understand your point on the Red Bull, Alfa Tauri relationship.

Obviously, he has been predominantly working for Red Bull. I know how closely associated the two teams are, but they aren't as quick as one another. You've got Red Bull, definitely the quickest car on the grid. Alpha Tauri, definitely not the quickest car on the grid, and almost definitely the slowest car on the grid. So it is going to be a massive transition between the two. I just think he needs to learn the Red Bull way again,

and he'll use these two races to do so. What do you think he needs to do, particularly after the summer break results-wise? We know that points have been a struggle for the team so far this year. What do you need to see from him from a pure numbers perspective? I don't expect the team to necessarily go on and outscore what they score in the first half with latter stage development from other teams. you know, we've already seen how McLauran have jumped up.

I expect the same kind of development from the likes of Alpine. I think that, you know, the other top drivers and teams will keep progressing. So I think with this transition that Al-Fatari have got coming forward, you know, they're having a team rebrand, they're trying to reallocate the team so it's closer to the Red Bull start of doing things. I think this is actually quite a turbulent period for the team internally. So I don't really expect Ricardo to score any points, to be honest, and that's okay. The car is not good enough.

I don't expect it. It may be a few retirements or a lucky safety car or a good weather change, sure. But on pure pace alone, I don't expect it. And that's okay if he doesn't. What I do expect to see is him next to, if got beating Sonoda on track regularly by the last four or five races of the season. I would, if they want to put him in that red boy, if that's the goal, if Sonoda's 13th, I expect Ricardo to be 12th or 11th and getting up the road. You know, I do expect that to be where Ricardo sits.

I think he probably believes in himself that he should be beating Yuki Sengoda by the end of the season. And again, not in points, but in overall performances, I think that that is... I mean, nicked of reason the last couple of races was only a position or so behind Sengoda.

So as much as it was flattering for Sangoa at the start of the season, I do think it's possible and I think Ricardo are out of all the drivers. If he could get his mojo back, if he feels good, if we get 2018, 2017, Ricardo, it's doable.

And I think he should be beating him. I think, and there's so many questions about what Daniel Ricardo is going to show up, like where between his A game and his F game, where is he going to be? Like, if he delivers his A game, he will demolish Yuki Sonoda, right? I'm talking Daniel Ricardo from five years ago. Does he still have that in him? Even Daniel Ricardo from his second season of Renault, right? That was a great season he had. If he finds that, something close to his A game, he demolishes Yuki Sanoda. In all honesty, I think if Daniel Ricardo finds his C game, he beats Yuki Sonoda.

I just think he's better than him at his core. But if he turns up and he's McLaren spec, Daniel Ricardo, what you might describe as his F game, yeah, he probably won't beat Yuki Sanoda. You almost definitely won't. I think I'd actually go a step further in terms of his comparison to Yuki Snowder. If he wants a shot at Red Bull in 2024, I don't think he needs to beat Sunnah. I think he needs to demolish him. I think it would have to be a comfortable beating of him.

So where Yuki Sonoda might be 13, I think Ricardo needs to be scoring a point or two. And based on what Yuki Sonoda was able to do earlier in this season, it's been a bit patchier as of the last few grumpery. Yuki Sonoda didn't have many points earlier in the year, but he was constantly in the fight for 10th and the fight for 9th, even if he finished just outside of that. I think if Daniel Ricardo can just chip away and score 9th, 10th, 9th, 10th, that sort of consistency, you're not bringing in many points at a time there, but there's a lot of green, like if you're looking at a Wikipedia page of results, there's a lot of green

there. I think that's enough to at least put him in contention. The other thing I was thinking about here, if we're talking about Red Bull as a potential, Sergio Perez, obviously, qualifying-wise, hasn't done very well over the last five or six races, put it mildly. Generally speaking, though, the Alphotari drivers haven't been in the position to beat him still. Like, Perez might be knocked out in Q2, but at the same time, Sonoda and DeVries might be getting knocked out of Q1 or also getting knocked out in Q2. What if Daniel Ricardo, if Perez's qualifying struggles continue? What if Daniel Ricardo actually ends up out qualifying Perez a few times?

At that point, you've got a bit more of a direct comparison that I imagine will be a bit more visible for F1 fans, F1Media at large. That might be worrying. I think if Ricardo ever out-qualifies Perez in that Alpha Tauri while Perez is in that Red Bull, it's game over. It's got to be game. I will view that as a completing utter failure for the season for Sergei Perez. But if Perez keeps getting knocked out in Q1 or Q2, it's entirely possible.

It's entirely possible. He just shouldn't be putting himself in the situation when Ricardo can even get close to him, let alone, you know, it'd be a discussion point that we're having. Indeed. It'll be an interesting one to keep an eye on. We'll take our last quick break of this show. On the other side, we'll be playing Pump the brakes. Okay, folks, Harry's not here, which means one thing.

we're on the old soundboard. Let's see. Okay, I'm going to press the media button. I'm going to press live because we're on preview at the moment. I'm still going live. Got a bit of a spin of do. There we go.

We're live. I'm going to turn it down because it automatically puts it at 100. That would burst through the drums. It is. So I'm going to put it on about 50%. We're going to have a scroll down. There's pump the brakes.

I've managed to find it. I'm going to click it. And then it's either going to play or it's not going to play. Here we go. Pop the brakes! You spoke to it like a child and it went, yes, Papa Ben, I will be the soundboard. I found the way.

I found the way, finally. Maybe it's just desperate to get more attention again because obviously doesn't get used very often anymore. Anyway, pump the brakes. Usually it'd be three of us giving an opinion. Obviously today, it's just myself and Sam. We'll give an opinion that might be a little bit controversial. The other person then will have to say whether your opinion's absolutely fine.

You can keep believing that. That's okay. In which case, nothing happens. However, if the other person says you should pump the brakes, that's stupid, that's where we get Dave Benson Phillips involved, who, how do you even describe Dave Benson Phillips on this podcast? Children's TV legend. Yeah. He used to gunge people on his show and the other person will get gunged, at least over the soundboard. Have you got to pump the brakes for today, son?

Yeah, but I'm still, I'm still mulling. Do you want to go first? Because I'm still mulling it over. I'll go first. Okay. Here's my pump the brakes. I think there are, and I'm using British summertime here, I think there are. too many 2pm start times on the calendar. Not as part of your pump the brakes, but what would you like? Honestly, just more variation, not even like more directed at this specific time, just more in them. And again, I'm doing European time here, more in the morning, more in the evening. I just, I'd like to see European wise, because there's a big stretch of 2pms from pretty much Monaco, I know there's one or two exceptions for like Canada and the like, but from Monaco through

to September, it's just a lot of 2 p.ms. I'd like to see, predominantly in the European season, one or two evening races, if that's doable. Most of not actually for my own benefit, but for the benefit of fans around the world, because I'm still conscious that I think we're too European-centric. very much enjoy from a personal viewer point of view, a morning Grand Prix on a Sunday. I love a morning grand prix. I love waking up at, like, I'll past 8, 9 o'clock,

and the race is on at like 9 a.m. And I'm like, I'm done by midday. You know, we've recorded, we packaged it up, it's done, and I can have the rest of me Sunday to relax, you know? And we speak to a lot of people in our Discord who are from the US, who are very much aligned with that, because obviously they're 2pm start times for us. they get so many races at some point between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock in the morning,

depending on where you are in the States. So many people say, absolutely love that time. Yeah, I imagine if we started having 9pm lights out, America would become very grumpy, though. Every single European Grand Prix would be what between midnight and 2 in the morning for them. That's got fun. I think you're allowed to keep that opinion, Benjamin. I think the evening ones worry me because if the track is not set up for a night race

and we have a red flag or something like that, you know, the precautions would need to be changed. But I think generally though, I very much enjoy the idea of mixing up the conditions and the timing and whatnot because also it means as a view I've got a right off between midday and about five o'clock on every Sunday that there's a race. So occasionally it is nice to do something else on a Sunday, you know? Okay, so Dave Benson Phillips is not getting paid because he didn't need to gunge me. I'd luck, Dave. Have you got a, have you mulled over what you want?

Stefan O'Donanicali should not be the leader of F1's voice slash Liberty Media. Expand. I think he publicly is becoming detrimental to the sport by being too vocal in his own personal opinions. and not guiding what all of Formula One think. For example, currently the 11th team on the grid. He has spoken multiple times how he personally believes that he shouldn't have 11 teams. I don't think his personal opinion should ever really play any major part

in any decision making. And I think that he needs to either have his responsibilities split, so you have almost like a democracy, or it should be moved on to someone else. Hmm. See, I think I don't know whether Domenicali, just using that example, I don't know whether Domenicali's actual opinion is that we shouldn't have 11 teams in that that is very much aligned with all of the other teams and what they think. And I don't know whether he's acting there more as a spokesperson and mentioning that it's his personal opinion,

rather, I don't know. I think I guess this stems from the fact that I want F1 to be governed by one body and the team shouldn't have their power and it should be a democracy of people that run Formula One as an entity rather than teams get a say, FIA get a bit of a say, drivers get a bit of a say. You know, if commercially, I don't think they should get a saying what goes on. I think it should just be a here's the rules, crack on. This is what we're doing.

I think I fundamentally agree with what you're saying in that I think the role of, Domenicali's role should exist and should be used. Just maybe not, again, to your point, not as much for opinion and more for just delivering statements. Yeah. When it concerns, I don't know, tracks being updated or like the calendar having to change or instances like, let's say, the cancellation of the Russian Grand Prix a couple of years ago.

that's where Domenicali should be there to give an official statement on behalf of the teams and on behalf of F1, but less about less using the media to put forward F1's thoughts on something. I think it should be a bit more down the line factual. So I think I agree with you there. Oh, Dave, back at your cupboard, mate. I'm really sorry, Dave, no money for you today whatsoever. Oh, hang on. Should we just gunge Harry

because he's not here? Dave, 350p for you. Let's go, Jim. It's the world's longest sound effect. It really is. Oh, man. I haven't heard it for a while. It's been a long time.

Still horrible. Late breaking demo. He's not even light anymore. You just get a 20-minute play session with him then it ends. And most people only use it for two minutes and then go, it's not worth playing with.

Always by the full version, folks. That's the conclusion to today's episode. Well, that will do it. Sam will be back, we'll be back Wednesday, where I believe will be a trio again. I hope so, who knows? If you have any complaints about today's editing, just know that it's been me who's doing it.

So if you do want to voice your concerns, please get in contact with Kirstie. and don't at me at all. But we'll be about Wednesday. And then we'll, well, I say we'll be back for next week on the Hungarian review. You're doing that without me. I'm not going to be there for that one. Oh, yes, I can't wait to lead another episode.

Don't worry. I'm sure Harry will very much get his revenge on the name calling when you're not here. I guess I'll get us out of here, though. Folks, as Ben said, definitely do at him and not Kursi for the terrible legacy that's going to happen. Make sure you go check out aiding's links. in the description. A thank you to Aiding again for coming on.

It was a bit of a last minute call, but he did a great job of turning up. We do appreciate it. If you want to pay for the full version of late breaking, we have Patreon. And on Patreon, you get two extras. That's extra episodes for those who don't know,

every single month. And you also get, for the top tier, beer with breaking, plus everything. Add free. Yeah, we did do beer with breaking folks last week, and the recording failed. So we're working on it.

We'll be doing that again. Yeah, I can't wait. to get drunk again and talk through the same topic. It was genuinely our best ones so far as well. Such a good episode of beer we're breaking. Anyway, folks, also if you're on the top tier, you get a little birthday shout out that happens at the end of each month.

So if your birthday is in July and you want to get involved, then you need to subscribe really quick because we'll be doing that birthday shout out in just over a week. We've also got Discord, links to the description. Link in the Giscrippi. If you'll join Discord, nearly 2,000 members. We had loads of people joining recently.

Loads of people which is lovely to see a big uptake in that the community's really growing. Everyone's really lovely in there. So maybe you're from an area and there's not a lot of F1 fans. You think, oh, I want to talk to someone. Come and join the Discord.

Loads of really nice people. Especially if you're an American. There's loads of Americans in there. Maybe balance it out if you're not American, enjoying anyway. I think that's everything. We've also got social media where everything is late breaking F1.

That's Twitter. That's Instagram. And Ben? If you're down with the kids, there's TikTok. You got it. We're also on YouTube where we're putting up many segments and different videos as well but aren't on the podcast.

So, you know, go over there, help her brother out and subscribe to YouTube because, you know, we'll try and get to a site where we get some ag-reving you on there, please, because we want to make this our full-time jobs. That would really appreciate. Please assist. Thank you for your love.

We'll see you on Wednesday. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late. Harry's King of Kill yet. Oh, no. podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.