The Late Braking F1 Podcast - What is the worst career move by an F1 driver? | Episode 78

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

Who made the best career move in F1? And who made the worst? The boys discuss their picks in this week's episode of the Late Braking F1 Podcast!Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast. Recording on what is apparently International Podcast Day. Make of that whatever you will. My name's Ben Hocking. No F1 race this weekend, but plenty to keep us occupied here in the world of Formula One.

and to keep us out of mischief, at least for this episode. A very good evening to Samuel Sage and Harry Ead. Sam, have you recovered from Sochi yet? I mean, it was very stressful, it was very for long. I'm taking a deep breath and wait. Oh no, that was talking about the driving through London I had to do. No, Sochi was fine. I don't even remember that happening. Is it actually international podcast day?

Yes, it is apparently. Have you, or have you just made this up? I can understand why you would think I'd make this up, but genuinely, it's a thing. This friendship stresses me out more than the sock you did. Is he lying? Not sure. That's not what either of you were like anymore. Is Ben lying? That's number one poll for this evening. Text yes or text no, two. No, I don't care.

So we'll actually talk some F1 rather than deciding whether I'm lying or not about it being international podcast day, which it is. We're going to be discussing Mick Schumacher, Robert Schwartzman and Kalamiler, the three Ferrari Academy drivers. We've discussed this at length beforehand, but they are getting their first FP1 outings. So we'll be looking at their chances of securing a seat next season and how we think those FP1 outings might go. Looking at Red Bull, of course, Ferrari's downfall has been, let's say, rather spectacular this year. Has it at all spared Red Bull, who are, to be honest, no closer to Mercedes than they were this. point last year. And we are bringing it back thanks to every single person that has wanted this F1 back and forth, Harry versus Sam. You absolutely love to see it. But first of all, we're going to be

discussing something that we put to the people on Twitter. At Lbreaking, get involved. We're always asking these sorts of questions. We ask two questions. What is the best move made by a Formula One driver and what is the worst move made by a Formula One driver from one team to another? Really interesting answers across the board. Sam, I'll kick off a view on this one. Is there one that comes to mind for you? The biggest one kind of in the last decade to two decades that comes to mind has to be your current champion Lewis Hamilton moving from McLaren who went on basically what Ferrari could be going on now, one of the biggest.

downward spirals we've seen from a top team in a long time, six Williams pretty much. They dropped off a cliff. Hamilton kind of jumped off that ship as it was almost kind of tiltering over the edge. And he jumped into the Sagi's team that was on the precipice of something great, something brilliant, wasn't he? I mean, they had a Schumacher and Rosberg there building and changing that team. And that car was God awful, God awful, the season before Hamilton joined.

It was worse than the McLaren. and as as described by the tweet that Ben, I think, found, or Ben, Harry one of you two found on the BBC sports page from when Hamilton moved. Hamilton moves to the saying is what are your thoughts, and the comics are all, idiot move, is ruined his career. That seems awful.

They'll never achieve anything. And look where they are now. Literally the most record-breaking team pretty much of all time. Hamilton is a six-time world champion. He has continued to help that team grow. he is part of a brilliant, brilliant culture there. Only beaten once by, obviously, the king himself Rosberg. Fire explosions behind me, please, on the green screen.

Honestly, what an incredible move. A lot of people, I think, in the comments when we tweeted this, said Schimacher. The reason why I disagree with Schimacher is because I have to doff my cap to the legend that is Michael in the fact that Michael built that team up. Michael did not move into a Ferrari team that was ready and steady cook. Why, hello, Jill, waiting to go for five championships in a row, you know. He's going what thing and it was there waiting for him. Michael made something about Ferrari team. Michael

was the best thing that's happened to Ferrari in a long time. And evidently so, because the moment that Michael leaves, it doesn't quite go their way again. I think Michael was really a strong talent for keeping that team afloat and having just that winning mentality that willingness could do the next best thing over. I'm always going to go one set further. I'm always going to bend the rules. I'm always going to push the player as far as I can. I'm always going to try and go as hard as I can everywhere. And he obviously got those

results, having the most wings and the most world titles. We'll see if that stays at the end of the season. But as it stands, that's what he has to his name. So for me, Michael deserves a lot more credit for building a team and a legacy in that team. Whereas Hamilton, I think, tactically, moved at a brilliant time. Strategically,

a little bit of luck. He shows himself offers a great young talent. He proves that he's a great racer, and if he made it what he needed it to be. And he beat everyone coming his way since then, apart from that one year at Rosberg. So yeah, for me, Hamilton, moving to that, for saying, I think it's possibly one of the best

moves in terms of timing and then luck and then skill, all combining. In Formula One, it's a fantastic move. And as we've seen, it's now in history. Harry, what are your thoughts on those two moves? And would you put forward another one, perhaps, is one of the best? Yeah, I mean, Hamilton to Mercedes.

Shimaka to Ferrari. I don't disagree with anything that Sam has said there. Yeah, Hamilton, the move was perfect timing. He did one year in 2013 when the Mercedes wasn't dominant, but still got a few wins out of it. And then, yeah, and then the hybrid era came in. So he obviously foresaw the, you know, or recognized what Mercedes were doing in, you know, with that hybrid engine and that it could help him towards another championship. In fact, it's helping for another five. So, that's probably, you know, the headline move. Schumacher again, yeah, I agree with Sam. It was, you know, it can still be seen as a great move,

but he had to work for it. He had, you know, four or five years without a championship and some painful moments along the way before they did get that. Obviously, then they went on to dominate, but it wasn't the immediate success story. Another one I'm going to throw in there is, well, it's not a move. it's a non-move, but button to Williams,

circa 2005, was supposed to go to Williams, big legal battle, BAA, I said, no sunshine, you're not going to Williams, and J.B's like, but I've got a contract. And they're like, no, you've got a contract with us. Anyway, I can do another, you know, dramatic reenactment of that another time. But yeah, he didn't go to Williams in the end in 2005. If he had, I don't think he'd be world champion.

I don't think he even have a race win to his name. So in terms of not making the move or, you know, keeping staying at the right team of the right time, I know he still endured some painful times at BAR slash Honda, but, you know, that could have been a huge turning point in his career. We would have, we could have been talking about Jensen Button. Oh yeah, that, you know, that British driver that, you know, showed a lot of talent but never won a race.

So, yeah, that's another one I throw in. But like I said, the two headline ones that have got to be Hamilton and Schumacher. Yeah, so I mean, to look at the Hamilton one first of all, and I would agree with what you said, both of you really, in that Hamilton did play the game very well. McLaren weren't giving him the championships. They went close a couple of times, but from 2008 onwards, it's not as if they were winning anything. But it was still a courageous move to make to a degree. The Mercedes thing was an unknown at that moment of time. And if it goes pear-shaped, who knows where he'd be now? Maybe we would be thinking of Lewis Hamilton as that incredible driver that won a championship very early in his career and never built on it at all. There's every chance that that would have happened.

So it was a bold move. It was a move that paid off. I think, you know, you can understand that 2014 was going to bring about a not only a brand new era, but a dramatically brand new era. And the lay of the land was changing. And Hamilton was able to establish this. Yes, there was still some luck in it. Don't get me wrong. but it was smart of him to see that things were changing.

The Schumacher one just raised an extra point on that, because I would agree with the fact that Schumacher did help build that team up. And when he joined the team back in 1996, it's not as if it was in a great position at the time. He was moving to a team that had not won a championship since, well, a driver's championship since the 1970s, 1979 with Jodie Schechter. They'd won a few Constructed championship.

It was in the 1980s, I believe, but it was still a long time since they'd had any sort of sustained success. And it was a big risk because not only is it about what you're moving to, it's about what you're moving away from. So in the instance of Lewis Hamilton, he was moving away from a very good team, but not one that had won anything in the last few years. Schumacher was moving away from Benetton at the time where he was literally a reigning double champion. So it was a massive risk in that respect to move away from that into. an unknown. As we know now, he was able to build that Ferrari team and win even more championships there. And Benetton, at least in that guy, has never recovered to the state that it was once in.

You know, they were occasionally competitive in the late 90s, but it was nothing like the success they had under Schumacher. And it wasn't until eventually became Renault, that they ended up having more success again. So a very smart move from Schumacher to move away from Benetton just at the time that they were going to start to deplete. And I guess that also calls in the question how much of Benetton success can you put down to the abilities of Schumacher rather than the success of the team,

considering where they went afterwards. And I'd just like to throw another one in here, and that is Nicky Lauder to Ferrari in the mid-70s. So Nicky Lauder came into the sport. He raced for BRM in his early days. BRM was in a pretty awful state at the time in the early 70s. Jean-Pierre Beltois won the 1972 Monaco Grand Prix for the team,

but that was their final win. They never ever won again after being a team that had provided drivers with championships in the 60s. So that was a team that was a bit of a tired giant almost. It was coming to the end of its life, BRM, and it never would recover. Nikki Lauder, though, you moved to Ferrari. And a move to Ferrari back then, just as it is now,

was incredibly prestigious. but he was joining a team that were not in a good state. Ferrari, again, hadn't won for quite a while. I don't think Ferrari had won a championship since 30s and 64 when Lauder moved nearly 10 years later. And they were just coming off, 1973, which was one of the worst seasons in Ferrari's history, where they had literally sat out a number of races in the second half of the season

because they were so uncompetitive that they couldn't, they were too embarrassed to show up and they didn't think it was worth it. They ended up recovering very well under Luken to Montezemolo in 74. And Lauder was a part of that. And of course he went on to win two championships with the team, very nearly won a third in 76. So Lauder made a great move there.

And I'll just point out one or two others. A couple of moves to McLaren, actually. Emerson Fittipaldi, and I'll mention him now because he's also going to get a mention when it comes to the worst move as well. But Emerson Fitzapalde moved to McLaren just two years after Lotus gave him a championship. A bold move to move away from Lotus at that point. Turned out to be a good one though because Lotus had a few down years

and McLaren gave him another championship. And if he stuck around at McLaren, he probably would have got one or two more again. The other one is also a move to McLaren. So Alam Prost, who started his career at McLaren in 1980, when McLaren were in a pretty down spell. the late 70s and early 80s were not a good time for McLaren. They recovered, though, in the mid-80s. Alan Prost moved to Renault and then back from Renault to McLaren,

ended up being a masterstroke, didn't quite win the championship against Lauder in 1984, but then, of course, went on to win a couple of championships in the few years after that. So that was a very good returning move from Alan Prost there. So those are the few that I would like to honorably mention. But, yeah, the Schumacher and Hamilton ones, very difficult to look past those as well. Now, we've done all the positivity. Let's get on to some negativity, because that's what we love here at Lake Break.

Yeah, let's make people feel bad for their choices. It's what we do best. It really is, mostly to ourselves. Worst move, what would you go for, Sam? So my worst move, the one that stands out for me, the one that I think, this individual was a, well, I sound like I'm presenting like the end of school award. this individual was a talent, a shining star,

someone that people still look back on now with... The whole crowd knows what you're talking about, but you're still trying to keep it secret, yeah. There's Adam Pross nudging him in the old show. It's you. It's you. I love it. Ertons looking over.

It's crazy, Zhang Lazy. Yeah, everyone claps. Wee, Jean, you've won the worst move award. He could have gone to Williams, and our boy, Nige, obviously, did, and world titles arrived. Instead, after being a Tyrell, impressing in the rare occasion he got, he went through this whole saga at the start of the 90s

where, would he join Williams, would he not? And then he kind of fell out of favour with Frank, and then Frank had a bit of a bad time, and then John didn't really trust him too much. And then because of Nige stepping down because he wouldn't be claimed driving number one, the first seat, he suddenly announced a shock retirement.

Wink, wink to the fans out there. There was a seat available at Ferrari. And when a seat becomes available at Ferrari, as we've seen with a lot of drivers, Carlos Sainz most recently, it's very hard to turn around and go, no, I'm not going to race for Ferrari. And Zhang Lazy took it.

He captured the hearts of the Tophosi. He's very much loved steel, I think, in the Formula One community by people that always look at the history of the sport, by drivers now. You know, he's very respected, a bit crazy. Look at those eyes. Don't look at them too long, though. You know, it's Sean Lazy. He's great. But he only got one victory.

He got one victory. I believe it was at Canada. You know, the guy has. of great talent. That famous battle was Senga. I think it was like 34 laps long or something like that. Well, they were back and forth, back and forth, F1 back and forth on the podcast, if you. And he lost it, actually. Sengar did beat him. But I think

it showed the amount of talent that a lazy had and maybe should have been a world champion. And if he made that right choice to go to the right team, there's a very, very strong talents that Williams would have given him at least one world championship. So for me, Jean-Aleazy, one and a few people that are not world champions that I definitely believe should be. And he's only got one win to his name, which is shocking.

So for me, it's a lazy to the worst move in history of a fun. What about you, Harry? I am going to plot for Mr. D.C., Mr. Chinjaw himself. Yep, that's CJJ. He at the end of 95. he wanted a bit more dough from Sir Frank who wasn't actually paying him too much, I don't think. He had his first win, and I think he was a bit more dollar,

and he and Sir Frank went, Nishnason, you've only had one win, pipe down. So then Mr. Chingell, BT, went off to Ron Dennis and said, can I ask some more money if I come and drive for you? And he was like, yeah, of course he can, mate. And so he drove for Macra in 96. and at the first he's i only knows because he's told the story himself but um at the first race he sat in like 18th place in the new mcclaren mercedes partnership which was sort of a bit rusty at that

point and the two williams had locked the front row with hill and bilnav and dc's thinking damn i shouldn't have done that and there's a possibility dc could have been a world champion in you know 96 maybe 97 um instead he was at maca and yes he had a chance he had a chance in, you know, 2001, but he was against Hakenen for a lot of it. Hackenden always had the, he always had Ron's heart,

I think. So D.C. never really stood a fair chance of a championship fight. So, yeah, I'm going to go with that one. D.C. could have been a world champion of F1 and not just of our hearts,

had he not gone. A lazy, D.C., the drivers of our hearts that soon will break them again. Exactly. I really like to think, Can I hold on to the fact that Ron Dennis and David Coulthard's negotiations went exactly, as you put it, Harry? They're both incredibly cockney for some of the reason.

With any character that we portray on the late-breaking YouTube channel or in the podcast, they all become incredibly cocky, and they all get called weird names like me mucker. They're all Bellboy, basically. I really, really hope it was that, you know, you're all right, Ronnie D? Yeah, you're right, D.C., how's it going? A bit more money in our drop.

for you? Yeah, go on then, go on then. I really hope it did go down that way. Yeah. Light doubt that it did. I am going to, I'll touch on both of those actually. So the genre lazy to Ferrari one, if I had to give an answer, actually, that would be my answer because you say, you know, Sam, you could have won a championship. And I think he probably would have won one. But ultimately, at least let's, let's focus on the chances for him to win a championship. He could have won a championship in 92. Of course, Mansell did win that one. 93, Prost won that one for Williams, so he would have had a chance there. 94, you know, Hill and the Williams had a chance until the very last race, so theoretically a lazy could

have done there. 95. Obviously, Hill wasn't as involved in that one, but that was, he didn't have a great year that year. If Lazy had been slightly better, I think he could have been with the chance there. 96, of course, Williams won. 97, of course, Williams won. So I think you've got six consecutive championships there that if a lazy had stuck around for all of them, he could have at least had a chance to win any of them. Not saying he would have won all of them,

but it's about the chances that he would have got. In terms of DC, I would also agree that he would have had obviously a much better chance of winning championships in the following two years in 96 and 97, theoretically with a bit more experience under his belt, I think he would have given Hill and Vilner a bit of a run for their money. I'm going to stray away from that answer

just because he did move into a position that gave him a chance, theoretically, at championships in 98 through 2001. So, of course, Hakenham was the lead driver there and he was the one that won the championships. But Kulthard was in a good position. It's not as if he moved from a good spot into a terrible spot.

he moved from a good spot into a still a pretty good spot. The one I've already referenced Emerson Fittipaldi, I think his decision to go back on one of the best decisions he's ever made to one of the worst decisions he ever made is just spectacularly bad. He moved to Kopasuka at the end of... Sorry, let me just look that up in the dictionary. Apparently they're an F1 team. Yes, yes, owned by his brother.

It was a very national pride kind of move from Fittipaldi, thinking that I think it had a lot of Brazilian oil money perhaps behind it, thinking that that could be, you know, I can understand why he did it. It was a terrible mistake. He never, I think he might have got one or two podiums for the rest of his career, but this was a double-time world champion who'd only been racing for five years or so. So there was still plenty more on the table. Of course, James Hunt went on to win a championship for McLaren in 76. Fittipa Lille would have been in a very good position to win that championship if he was still where. And the Kopposuka team was abysmal. And Fittipal Lee had to contend with the last sort of five or six years of his career being stuck essentially at the back of the grid a lot of the time.

So if that's a lesson to all Formula One drivers, don't move to your brink. brothers team. It won't work. I don't have a brother now. It's on the cards otherwise. I mean, to maybe discuss a few others, rather than is this a terrible move, I'm just going to ask the question

of Fernando Alonzo's move, which one was the worst Sam? Oh, blimey. Take your pick. I think McLaren had to be the worst possible move. And the thing is with... One or two. which one.

Oh, well, two, obviously. One, he 100% could have won two world titles. Hamilton beat him twice. Like, you're a double world champion, mate. You were the reigning champion when you moved to that team. And you got beat by a rookie. Like his first season. And then the second year, you got beat by a rookie who then wings his first title.

A long to kill one, two titles with McLaren the first time around. He's stepping off a little bit. He was only there for a year, though. I thought it was there for two years. No, I know. and Covalhinen are basically interchangeable. Babyface and the Spanish maestro. Yeah, they're very similar.

Sorry, regardless, Alonso, king of won titles, apparently stuck around a little longer. But the thing is with Alonso is his ability to just burn bridges to pee off team principles and ruin relationships. And I think that, you know,

Ferrari was never going to happen. He was just at Ferrari at a time where they were never good enough. But then he moves back to McLaren in what is the most god-awful partnership but they are ever seeing at that point

I mean Honda and I turned around to have multiple race victories in the most recent era of them and good for them for doing so but what are you doing

man if you maybe just stuck around a little bit longer worked a little bit harder built up some reputation with some teams you might have been in a winnest spot I reckon Red Bull

are taking him on a long time veteran at the time who was obviously essentially a junior driver had he been a little bit more respectful or a bit more polite

and courteous with how he acted the things. But it wasn't to happen. So, Alonso has got the record for basically being X amount of points off of winning multiple world titles. And I think pretty much all of them were down to his own doing. So there you go. Alonso is definitely the king of multiple bad moves and just annoying other people in the sport. I saw a photo the other day of when Alonzo was announced at McLaren for the second go around.

And it's just a smiley Alonzo and a smiley Ron Dennis in the, in the McLarence technology centre and I just couldn't help but just look at it and think, wow, you guys have no idea. You have no idea what's about to happen. Harry, what would you say was Alonzo's worst move? I think the burning the bridge is at the end of the first, that first stint at Macca

and then having to go to Renault. I know he got a couple of wins in 08, but 09 was horrendous and obviously then he went Ferrari. Cheers Nelson. Poor Nelson. The guy that was told to put it into a wall and still doesn't have a drive. Yeah, he was that bad.

Yeah, I don't... Obviously, in hindsight, the second McLauramoo was horrendous, but at the time, it all made sense. I don't see... You know, Alonzo had had... How many years? Five frustrating years at Ferrari.

He'd come to... close twice to a championship, basically dragging a car that probably didn't deserve to be there. He completely smashed Massa and then Reichen in 14 as well. And he still, you know, that Ferrari in 14 was nowhere near what it was, you know, 15 and then 17, 18. So I kind of don't blame him for that move. And, you know, all the, it was all pointing in the right direction from McLaren and Honda. It seemed like the sensible thing to do to, you know, this new. era you needed to have a partnership with an engine supply that just supplied your team to beat

Mercedes and Ferrari, etc. And this seemed like, at the time, it seemed like a pretty good move and that, you know, the might of Alonzo and Honda and McLaren that could do great things. But it was not. It was a terrible move. But, yeah, I think the first move away from McClaren is actually a poorer move because he burned the bridges at a team that were winning at the time

went on to win the next championship whereas I can understand the second one more to be honest so yeah end of 07 what you're doing Fons yeah absolutely and just to

just to wrap up this topic an honourable mention for worse move I think needs to go out to Jacques Villeneuve to BAR and then extending his time there after what he'd seen in 99. He loves it. Well, I'm not sure he did, really.

Went from winning a championship in his second F1 year to never winning again. Bless, that sounds very much like my life. It's without the championship. You're not a guy. Don't put yourself down like that. So moving on, we've spoken before on the podcast. about Ferrari's young drivers coming through the ranks at the moment, and three of them will be getting an FP1 opportunity this season.

The next race, the Eiffel Grand Prix at the Nuremberg Ring. Mick Schumacher will be participating in FP1 for Alpha and Mayo, and at the same weekend, Kalamilat will be running for Hasse. And later in the season, Robert Schwarzenman will be getting his opportunity at Abu Dhabi, no word yet on which team that will be for. Looking at the early weather forecast and how cold it's, looking like it's going to be for FP1. Sam, it's a bit of a bit of a bat to summer fire for these guys, isn't it? Right. So they're literally going like skiing or ice drifting, apparently. Apparently

that's the new test for F2 drivers. How unfair is that? Ladd, this is it. It's your first time in what is essentially the best car ever made currently in terms of speed and cornering ability. Yeah, you're going to get to go around it around one of the most famous tracks in the world. But it is three degrees. and it's really icy, and we don't actually have tyres that work in those conditions. In all seriousness, if Schumacher and I lot

can both be ahead of a number of drivers, I think that already shows that they've got the ability to handle that F1 car in tricky conditions. It's still exciting to see what they're doing. They're still on the same conditions as everyone else.

They're the only two and a really cold tracking everyone else to drive around Porta Mao and the lovely summer sun. I'm very excited to see what all three of them could do across the last bit of the season that we've got coming.

I'm a little nervous about I lot. I think that, I think Schumacher is destined to see regardless of if he bings it three times in one session, to be honest. I think a team would still pick him up in the next season. Schwarzenman, I think he's so young, he's doing so well, I think he'll do another season in F2 regardless of his talent. I think he'll get picked up. He's got a lot of sponsorship behind him. He's very well liked. I lot, for some reason, doesn't seem to have that magnitude around him.

doesn't seem to have that gravitas, to use a very American word, which seems to be hooking an F1 team to him. The rumours seem to be all over the place. I think that's really sad, because I think Eilat has been probably the most consistent driver, not necessarily the best, but the most consistent driver in F2 this season. He's shown a lot of promise,

and I really think he could be a strong driver in the F1 field. I'm very nervous so that he's going to end up, and this isn't any insult, but maybe got his dream. You might end up following the likes of Nick Debris to Formula E, or could be doing something more, Weck based or or maybe go to IndyCar which would be quite interesting.

Of course, there's a few XF1 drivers over there now. So I'd like to see him an F1 and I hope he really impresses, probably in the hearse. We'll have to see. But it's going to be really great to see them all go around and Erburg.

I'm really excited. Well, I think, sorry, I can't remember if it was yourself, Harry or Sam, that pointed out that it is 20 years and one day after Schumacher won his first championship

for Ferrari that Mick Schumacher will be making is FP1 debut, which is quite incredible. How are you feeling ahead of that and also Callum Islet's debut for Has. Oh, I'm going to go and have a little sob when FP1 is on next week, an hour and a half and of me sobbing, and then I'll be fine. No, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a poignant moment, isn't it? There aren't many father-sun duers in F-1, and, you know, we've had Rosbergs, Hills, Vilnibs, yeah, it doesn't come around too often. It doesn't always mean they're going to be successful.

But yeah, it's going to be a big moment for the old Schumacher fanboy within me to see the only Schumacher name back on the timing screens. But yeah, I, whereas, because he had a young driver test last year, I think, with Ferrari and Alpha Romeo. And whereas, you know, there's a huge amount of hype around that. whereas then I think he was obviously too, it was too early for him. Now I think he does look like he's the driver, he's a driver ready to go step up into F1. But I would agree, I think I lot is ready too.

I think he is a serious contend for Hasse. I think Schumacher is probably the one for Alpha-Omec because that's like the Ferrari B team. But yeah, I say that and Ben, you'll make this point as well. Gunterstein will then still announce Kevin Magneton and Roma Grosjean. I'm going to get a HECFAR for another four years. So, yeah. But in all seriousness, I think all three have a genuine chance. I said to you both yesterday when the news broke,

it was telling that Schwartzman doesn't get the test until Abidabee. So I think that's the way that they're thinking. But it doesn't rule him out entirely, but bar any major mishaps for Schumacher in his test next Friday, I think he'll probably get the nod over Schwartzman. but Schwartzman has got up seeing F1 in the future, that's for sure. Also, just for those out there, I will create a 24-hour loop of Harry crying over everyone. Thank you very much.

Real tears. Everyone loves a teary reaction to F1 at moments, don't they? Oh. Oh. Right. So, it's great to see all three of these drivers getting an opportunity. Of course, yeah, Schwarzenman getting his a little bit. later on in the season.

And I think the most likely situation is that Schwartzman doesn't get his seat until 2022. But a lot of it can still be decided with this F2 title. We know how Red Bull have at times when a driver of theirs has won, one F2. And they obviously, the winner of F2 can't go back in the championship. So they've sent them to Super Formula or something along, you know, a championship similar, like similar to that. But if one of these three, and there's a very good chance one of these three will win the championship, there's a strong claim for them to then get it.

Obviously, the number one, they've beaten their two main rivals for the sea. And also they just can't return to the championship. So for their development, it makes sense to get them in the car first. So there's still plenty to fight for when it comes to the F2 championship. And yeah, I think all three of these guys, all three of these guys are deserving of this chance, of this opportunity. And of those four seats, so, I mean, Kimmy Reichenen, he is being pretty strongly linked to be returning to Alpha next year. But the other three are definitely out there. You know, a juvenile seat, his seat is far from safe.

Magnuson and Grojan, I know they keep persisting with these two guys. Maybe this will be the year that they finally get rid of one or both of them. Having said that, Hasser in a position where they could argue that the car's not giving them the opportunity to show. what they can do. So that might save them. Who knows. But you've got these sort of three or four seats available. And I think it's almost a bit unlucky for the guys. So if Eilat was there alone, he was the only Ferrari driver coming through at this period of time, he'd probably stand a very, very good chance of getting one of those seats. He still stands a pretty good chance, but he'd have a very, very good chance because there'd be no competition for it. As it is, you've got Eilat Schwartzman and

Schumack are all fighting for these seats, plus the guys that are already in these seats. And you've also got Nika Holkenberg and Sergio Perez, who wouldn't mind a drive either. So you've got plenty of of guys all fighting for two or three, maybe four seats. One thing I was interested to know your thoughts on guys. It used to be policy that there was a third driver that was used for a practice day or going back sort of 15 years or so. And I'm not necessarily advocating that coming back in. But do you think the teams in FP1 in every season, there should be some sort of quota for letting someone who isn't one of your two drivers compete in those sessions. So maybe, I don't know, you need someone outside of your two drivers, say five times a year to race an FP1.

Would you advocate that, Sam? Yeah, I mean, I don't see why not. I think is it doesn't prove too much, I suppose, as long as you can maybe match it to the other guys that try that car around that track. So in FP1, you have to do one long run and at least one qualifying lap. And if you're within X percent,

I suppose you could go off something. And obviously, F-1 seems not they're dealing with these things pretty more than I do. So, yeah, I'd like to see more drivers get a shot. I'd like them to get a chance. I don't know how much it's going to open up as an option for these younger drivers, but I think it'll be good exposure.

Give it a go. Why not if you get one or two choices a year? Usually in a season, we've got 22, 23 races. So what's the harm in one FU1 session going to a youngster? What are your thoughts on that, Harry, just to see what you think? Yeah, I mean, we used to have the third car. We used to have the third car in Friday practice a few years. Well, we're talking about the naughties now when expense was,

didn't matter. And that gave teams a chance to put a third driver in, basically a test driver. The only one I can think of is Anthony Davidson and the BAR called Davidson. But yeah, I wouldn't be against it. If every team's got to do it, where's the unfair advantage? They've just got to obviously pick, I guess they've had choice of what weekend they choose to put the drivers in. I mean, if it's a championship fight, you're not going to put them in towards the end of a season. So yeah, I would not be there against that at all. And then at least it gives,

it gives, you know, more of a platform for these F2 drivers to get a, you know, a test in F1 car because it's only, you know, the Ferrari Young Driver Academy ones that tend to get a test these days. Well, to be fair, Williams have done a few now, haven't they, than Aiken and Tickton this year, if I'm not mistaken. Go go, go, sorry. Oh, sorry, how can I think I? Forget Goat Roy. Yeah, exactly. So I think I would not be against it at all.

I think it would be a good thing. Moving on to our third topic of today. So Ferrari's downfall in 2020 has been nothing less than catastrophic, is the term I'm going to use here, with the team under a lot of pressure. The result of this is that a lot of attention has been put on them, but has this distracted everyone from where Red Bull are at the moment, who were tipped to be pretty close to Mercedes this year,

year. And to be honest, they seem to be about as far away as they were last year. Sam, do you think that Ferrari's downfall has perhaps helped Red Bull in that respect? And they need to, they need to be held a bit more accountable for where they're at. It's not just helped Red Bull. It's helped Alex Albon as well. Oh, wait a week. Thanks for stuffing. No, but like, get the pickards out, Lance. We're going on war. Alex Albon has half the points of Max Verstappen and a Red Ball that is probably the same pace as it was last year in comparison to the Mercedes, right? It can't beat it on a regular basis.

It needs a special circumstance, a DNF or a tyre blowout or a ridiculously hot track to have a chance of really beating both the Mercedes or a Lewis Hamilton's case, 83 penalties that are coming his way this season. That's the only time that Red Ball have been able to beat Mercedes regularly across the entire hybrid era.

It's not like that's suddenly come around this season. That is a consistency. And if Ferrari were of the same pace that they were, let's say, in 2018, I think Red Bull would be struggling again to get any more than third place. And Alba would technically then have two cars in front of him fighting competitively that he wouldn't normally have to deal with. At least currently, he's going past for Clarings and Racing Points, which can't consistently throw a result together.

And I think it would be absolutely disastrous for his points tally, comparison to all it is now. So, yeah, I think that they are, I've got a bit of saving grace coming their way. I think people are looking the other way. People are laughing at Ferrari and the laughing stuff that they are applauding LaClaire for putting out a sick place

and a podium and another podium and dragging that car up out of nowhere, having a mask and up and qualifying occasionally. And they're getting away with it. And I think they need to be careful because otherwise, if a team say McClare on a racing point next season, just develops a bit more,

they can have a real competitor on their hands, I think, especially if Mercedes take another step forward as they do every single season, and they can really be shown up for what they're getting up to. I'd like Red Bull to become more competitive. I want a competitive for Mussegis, please. But currently, they are not doing it.

And FIA, keep throwing spanners at Mercedes. No party mode. You know, know this, know that. You can't have DAS next season. It's not working, FIA. You can keep trying to pin down the best team, but realistically, the other team just need to get better and Red Ball haven't got better. the midfield have got better and the savings have got better.

And I think they could be found out if Ferrari get the rat together. What do you reckon, Harry, do you think this has been a bit of a case of Ferrari have been awful, so Red Bull not making much progress has been hidden? Yeah, it's tricky. I think there's a genuinely good car in that Red Bull somewhere. They just haven't found it yet. Obviously, they had the win at Silverston, but that was probably more down to tyre issues slash Max just happen.

Yeah, so yeah, I agree. I think Ferrari have kind of saved them a few blushes. Whether they, you know, 2019 car would have been, what, yeah, a 2019 engine that Ferrari would have made them quicker than the Red Bull this year. I don't know. I don't think anyone was going to touch Mercedes. That car is, could probably be their most dominant car yet. I don't know.

I mean, the 14 car was ridiculous. But it's just the most complete car. has it broken down? I don't think so. And the team on such a role at Mercedes that I don't, it's really difficult to stop them.

So any team trying to stop there needs to be on their A game and Red Bull haven't quite been there. In terms of strategy, they are. But yeah, the car isn't quite there yet. So, yeah. Would it have been better for them, worse for them if Ferrari had been up at the front?

I don't know. Because I think Red Bull, as a team are more hooked up than Ferrari are, even when Ferrari have a good car. But it may just emphasize what a job Mercedes are doing because I don't think the Ferrari would have beaten them either, to be honest.

I guess this is just depressing, isn't it? No one's going to stop Mercedes, are they? They're going to take over the world, and then F1 will be called Mercedes-1, and then everything will be silver. I think another M-Team is going to come back and beat them. I think it's going to be Midland.

Yes. Or Midland and Menardi are going to combine their powers to take down Mercedes. M and Emingem, M and M. Yeah, they're going to call themselves M and M. Right. This is definitely happening. We need a couple of drivers with M to drive for them. Mazakana, you can do it.

It'll love it. We'll find another one as well. It's a junkie. Morbadelli, there we go. Anyway, perhaps more serious things. I will say about Red Bull that there is this whole issue with them having a lower budget than Mercedes. I can't remember exactly how much lower it is, but Red Bull do operate on a lower budget than both Mercedes and Ferrari and always have done, really. So it is impressive in the first place that they can compete at this level.

But, yeah, having said that, they are closer to Mercedes than what they were, last year. So after 10 races in 2019, they were 216 points behind. This year, they're 174 points behind. So there is progress there. But you have to consider half of their competition, Ferrari, isn't racing against them this year. And Pierre Gazley, who struggled massively in the car last year, he's not in the car this year, which I think kind of says a few things. First of all, Red Bull have not taken advantage of Ferrari not being there as much as they should have done. And ultimately, Alex Albin, who, let's face it, and most racists shouldn't have an excuse to be lower than fourth place,

is finishing lower than fourth place a lot of the time. So I think it's just disappointing that this Honda relationship, I think this was the year that they were supposed to crack on and make progress. I think that, you know, 2019 was encouraging. I feel as if 2020 and indeed 2021 was supposed to be the years that they really pushed on and started to lay into Mercedes and even if not beat them, start to take victories away from them on a more regular basis. And it just hasn't happened.

I would agree with you, Harry, that I think there is a better car there than what they're able to unlock at the moment. I know that they have had issues with their upgrades and how they essentially, rather than have it throughout the year, they sort of brought them all together to the first race and they kind of didn't match up very well. and I'm not sure they've fully recovered from that. But it would be, obviously, I want to,

I want to see a bit of a championship fight. It's not going to happen this year. But maybe if they can get their act together, either Vastap and all the team can, at least muster up a fight la Ferrari in 2017 or 18. But at the moment, it's not looking good. It's time for the main event. What you've all been waiting for,

It's the one. Sam, vocal chords at the ready. It's F1 back and forth. It's F1. Back and forth, it's F1. Back and forth, it goes backwards. And then goes forth, it's F1. Back and forth, yeah, F1. Oh, we inject it.

Love it. F1, back and forth is back. If you haven't listened along to the podcast, before I'll briefly explain what it is involved. It's Harry versus Sam on a particular topic. So I'll say this topic beforehand. There will be a set number of correct answers to that topic. They will go back and forth giving correct answers

until one of them can't think of an answer or gives a wrong answer. Does it go be about Jackie Ix again? Race is won by Jackie now. I'm afraid not. Yeah, if you listen to the last time we played this game, Sam had a bit of a Jackie Hicks again. Nick's nightmare, but well, hopefully

hopefully won't come up tonight. So, the first topic, drivers that had two or more podiums in the 1990s. Oh, Ben, fucking. There are 25 correct answers to this.

Two or more podiums in the 1990s. Harry, if you wouldn't mind kicking us off on this one. Michael Schumacher He only had one I'm so sorry Oh Oh hang on

No let me 71 sorry Miss reading my notes there Um Yes Michael Schumacher is a correct answer Sam What are you going for Ertung Senner

Ayrton Senna is a correct answer Harry How many correct answers Did you say they were 25 25? Oh my goodness sake But that doesn't seem like that many

Anyway Nigel Mansell Big Nige, of course he's there Sam Mika Hakenen Mika Hakenen is a correct Answer, Harry Alan Prost

Correct Sam Harry, who have you said? I've already forgotten Alan Prost Is that it? Okay Damon Hill of course Damon Hill is a correct answer

Harry Gerhard Berger Of course the beef burger is there Whee Sam Jacques Vilnerve As much as Harry would

I'm sure Not like his name mentioned Yes that is a right answer Harry Um Ricardo Petraise That is a correct answer, Sam David Caltard

Big DC Absolutely love it Harry Rubens Barrycello He did pick up a few Yeah Sam Oh please don't let me down

John Elayze John Yeah for John I mean it's close but he did just about have more than two he had 32 Harry what's your next answer he's 32 that's an obscene amount

it's an obscene amount considering he only he only won one yeah blimey okay Eddie Irvine Eddie Irvine is correct 24 to his name Ralph Schumacher Ralph Schumacher is correct. Harry?

Olivier Pannis. Olivier Pannis is correct. He had five. Sam. Yoss for Stappan. Oh, yes. Yoss for Stappan had exactly two. Yes. Harry. Johnny Herbert.

Johnny Herbert has seven. Oh, I. How many have we got left? Eight, I think. Oh, God. Eight left. You doing well? Oh, there's going to be people in the comments who are literally like,

you boys know nothing! I'm going to have to rat the brain. Oh, I don't know, I might be... You said burger, haven't you yet? Oh, beefy. Beefy's been done. That was one of my. Kee-up. Beepin's

been cooked already. Blundell? Yeah, Mark Blondell, three podiums to his name. Harry. His old mate, Brundle. I mean, where Blondell comes,

of course, Brunnell comes as well. Nine for Martin Brundle. Sam, back to you. Well, I didn't come back to me so quickly. I don't have to get the one name that literally sounds exactly like the other game. I was going to say. I've got to do all the brain racking now. Why is the only game in my head?

Sebastian Buehmi! I know it's not right. I know it's not. I'll give you a massive clue, Sam. Sebastian Buey is not a right answer. Oh, my God. I mean, who knows? Who even knows anymore?

Um, oh no, he definitely didn't. I've got one. I think I've got one. And it's only because he defends thing air, but he might not have had one in the 90s. Oh, Fisichella. Yeah, Fizekella is a correct answer. Oh,

so it goes back to you, Harry, with just five correct answers still on the board. You can tell my thinking. I'm definitely running through early 2000s drivers in hope that they might have had a couple of podiums in the 90s. Uh, Nelson P.K. Yeah, Nelson Pekay was seven to his name in the early 90s, so Sam, it's back to you with just four left. Okay, let me rack the brain.

Have we done Heinz Harold Frensen? We've not done Heinz Harold Frensen. I'm saying him. I'm saying Hines Harold Frensen. I'm saying Hines Harold Frensen. I'm saying Hainesie. I'm doing him. Oh, Baggs is me. 15 podiums for Frensen, which leaves you with just, uh, With just three more. Now, I don't know if he managed to get more than two,

but I'm going to say Mika Sarlav. Oh, it's a good answer. It's great, Sam. Exactly two podiums. Which means you've got two left. Sam, can you name either of them? Oh, I mean, I'm bling guessing here. I'm just literally picking names out of a hat.

I feel like now I owe it to the F1 community me and Harry get the last two. Yeah, we're going to make it to the end here. No, Sam. Taki and Ui didn't not get any shit. Yeah, yeah. It's the only name I can think of. That's in Taki and Ui.

Um, all right. Okay, so for those of the podcasts listening, we have a bit of an issue with internet, so we've had a slight break. Fortunately, it's allowed me to get a Rosberg off into the slip road, and I've bought myself some time. So I've actually got a name.

It's going to be hilarious when this name is wrong. Yarno Trilly Oh You know how much I love Yano Trulley Oh it's so wrong But unfortunately here It's not a correct answer Oh god damn it

I believe he had one in the 90s But I don't think He didn't get to I'm so sorry I'm Googling it Also Sam I'm gonna edit this so seamlessly Then no one would ever know

that there was a 20 minute gap In between that That answer and the one more. Sorry. He ruined the illusion. Can I do it again? No, it's fine, no, no. I honestly didn't have any more left.

So, I mean, we're both. I'm sad that we couldn't get to the end. We were so close. You were very close, and it was just two more that had three podiums each. Tieri Bootson and Alessandro Nannini. Oh, we'll never have gotten. A very good effort, a very good effort.

and Harry, congratulations on your win. Oh, thanks, mate. Did I win? Well, I mean, Sam didn't get it right, so it works. Oh, nice. I hate this competition. You know it. Don't lie, you love it.

Write the theme two, succeed the theme two. Right. I mean, when you say write the theme team team, Sam. I spent hours on that. Anyway, speaking of theme tunes. The longest bit is going to when to start singing this. It's not now.

It's now. It's F1. Back and forth, it's F1. Back and forth, it goes backwards. And then goes forth. It's F1. Back and forth, it's F1. I love that little snare.

Dic-Tac-a-T-T-a-Lik. Beautiful, isn't it? great. Absolutely love it. Right, I need to go to IKEA. Let's go. Right, yeah. Sam needs to get to IKEA, so we're going to wrap up this podcast on what is International Podcast Day.

Let us know how you got on. Out of 25, how would you've got on? But Sam, if you wouldn't mind getting yourself off to IKEA, but first of all, getting us out of here. Yeah, I'm off to get some Swedish meatballs and singham and bungs because I'm absolutely buzzing at our post date at the evening for IKEA. You love it. If you've enjoyed it, the silliness, the seriousness, the F1 talk. Stick around for next week. We'll be reviewing, previewing rather, the German

Eiffel, Nürbergring, Grand Prix, whatever name you want to give it, will be here all your usual outlets, so come out and listen. Join us as well as well. More videos, highlight. Subscribe over there as well. We really appreciate it. Join us on Twitter at Elbreaking. Chat to us whenever you want. We're always there as well being silly boys. In the meantime.

I've been saying you're saying. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Pierre-Carno Gimzani. Oh, what a boy. And remember, keep breaking late. Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.