The Late Braking F1 Podcast - What Verstappen's multi-year Red Bull deal tells us

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

With Max confirmed at Red Bull until 2030, the LB boys explore what the deal tells us about his current position, his future in F1, and the wider implications for the grid around him. They also chat Norris' denial of title fight capabilities, the obstacle to Mercedes' 2026 development, and how 'easy' the 2026 cars are to drive. Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get:Ad-free listeningFull-length bonus episodesPower Rankings after every raceHistorical race reviews& more exclusive extras!Don't forget! You can also gift a Late Braking Patreon subscription—perfect for loved ones or your own wish list. Choose anything from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking:You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats!Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us! LEAGUE CODE: C6Y6R4ZUY02Get in touch any time at [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking, back in our usual recording setting for this one, a midweek episode. Sam, you know what? Yesterday was a delight getting back from Zambor. It was truly the best day of my life. I wish more days for spending endless queues, a bit of.

hot and sweaty on a train that was a couple of hours late and not having a proper meal for the majority of the day. It felt like a really strong day in the history of late breaking. Yeah. It was up there. Do you know what? In true late breaking fashion, we managed to join a queue. I'd say at least halfway three, right? Yeah, maybe like at worst, two thirds the way through that queue. And by the end of it, we were at the back of the queue. Somehow there was only about nine people around us despite being there so early. I don't know how we managed it. We were like the last ones through passport control.

So love the trip to the Netherlands and to Amsterdam. But yeah, train station sucks. I'm going to be flying next time. Yeah, before we crack on with the show, of course, a quick word from our sponsors, not the Eurostar. Do you like standing around, not moving, Eurostar? Right, let's crack on. F1 back and forth coming up later on.

We've got some comments from Lando Norris and Toto Wolf as it pertains to the title fight, if there is one, after a couple of races in a row that Lando Norris has claimed victory. But we are going to start with news that was broken last Thursday. That is the wrong day, Red Bull, but it's fairly important news. So we will talk about it. Red Bull have announced that Max Verstappen has committed to a new deal that will see him race for the team through to 2030. Vestappen first joined the Milton Keynes-based outfit in 2016 and has gone on to achieve 71 victories and four driver's championships.

Reflecting on the announcement, Vastappen said, I am really pleased with the contract extension. We have the best people and I'm excited to keep working together with everyone to get back to the top again. I've always said it. This team is like a second family for me and I feel very at home. Getting to work with Lorond now for over a year has also been great. I see a clear vision he has for the team.

Sam, correct me if I'm wrong, but when this news broke on Thursday morning, I believe I was the one to tell you in our living room of our Airbnb. Obviously, the initial reaction to the news was, well, that's a day late. But other than that, what was your initial reaction to the news? In hindsight, I shouldn't have be shocked

that a Max Verstaffing announcement was going to happen on the eve of his home Grand Prix, the last Home Grand Prix, as we've currently seen, as we, you know, the plan for the Zanthor track. What I was shocked about was not just an extension, but a multi-year extension. You know, this is going to what, 2030 is she said. End of 2030, yeah. She's a long old time in Formula One with what's going on in the regulations. And it's especially a long old time when someone like Max Verstappen has been nonstop winging

about what's going on in Formula One right now. It's quite valid, winging, I must admit. but nonetheless, he hasn't been very happy. So to sign such a lengthy deal when you're still not happy and it's still not really changed and the car is particularly good and the regulations are confusing and rubbish

and they're going to be getting any better anytime soon, I really was surprised it was such a long extension. If you return to me and said, he's extending until the end of next season. I go, all right, I thought that maybe he'd just keep it quiet until the end of the year,

but I guess that makes sense. It gives him another year to make a decision. 2030 is a bold move, but that man must have 1,327 clauses in that contract to allow him to escape at literally any moment's notice. It's like Lauren Meckis breathes on me in the weirdest way. I leave. I do think he's probably got everything covered.

Yeah. Lauren, stop it. Contract's done. I'm out of here. See you later. I shouldn't have done it. I am surprised, but it's that long. Extinction is not that shocking,

but with all the conversation that's been going on, all the rumors about other teams, and it makes sense that he was, you know, check out his options. I am still surprised it's 2030. Harry, when you first read or listened or heard the news, what was your immediate reaction? Yeah, I was unsurprised by the extension.

And now, I mean, it's obviously very easy to say this in hindsight. But the more I've thought about it, I'm not surprised that it is with Red Bull because I don't, I know there's always been rumors about, you know, Mercedes and McLaren, I know I made a claim that maybe he would go to McLaren next year with and follow GP. It was dead as soon as he said that. Well, yeah, Red Bull fans, you're welcome.

But I think with everything that's happening, Red Bull, now that that has settled down, I don't think Vestappan's complaint this year have been at all about Red Bull or their specific car. I know it does sound like it, but it's the regulations, right? he's just, he doesn't, not a massive fan of these regs. There have been some changes that would have been announced for next year and, you know, things will progress as the years goes on, years ago on, sorry. So actually, I think the fact that it is an extension with Red Bull

isn't really a surprise and we shouldn't be surprised because, like you said, it's like family. Thanks, Bing. Cheers, Vin, another mention. Oh, he's had way so many mentions recently. like going to a hall of phone spot incoming but he's been in there he's been part of that program for basically all his life

so it shouldn't be that surprising yeah and so like and as you said Sam there must be so many performance clauses in that that means he can exit whenever he likes to so I don't believe he's fully locked in for that amount of time interestingly, and I can't quite remember when, and this hasn't been confirmed or anything,

but the FIA are talking about, you know, the next step's going to be bringing back in V8 engines. Does that fall in line with when his contract end? Well, I think it depends on when it happens, because it's either going to be 2030 or 2013. I think the FIA and Mohamed Ben Suleim, more specifically, would like that to start in 2030. I think realistically it's probably going to be 2031, in which case his contract would come to an just as that would start. Yeah, well, so there you go. And I'm not suggesting he's just going to sit around waiting for that to happen.

But it's kept his options open with that because I feel like a VH formula would certainly make Max Vastapian. Vastapen. That's a stepion. That was in the new contracts. Yeah. It's because I was trying to say Max Verstappen are happier man. I went from Max Verstapien. I like it.

I'm tired. Yeah, I think. that would suit him a bit more. So, yeah, we'll see what happens with that. But yeah, and overall, not that shot. I will maintain regarding the announcement, and this is a bit of a personal one with us being at the track at the weekend,

which I'm not sure we've mentioned at this point, if he had on the parade lap, when he stopped to do that interview in front of the arena, mentioned for the first time that he's staying at Red Bull until 2030, the non-existent roof of Zamvor would have popped off, and it would have been incredible. But nonetheless, I don't think you can be 100% surprised about this because this is someone staying at a team that he's already been at for 10 years, 11 years,

more if you count to Rosso before that. The Red Bull family, even longer again still. So I don't think you can be massively surprised as a result of that. I think the results that Red Bull have had so far this year are kind of one thing. and you might point to them and say, well, that's a bit surprising because Red Bull, relative to the rest of the field, might be in their worst position since 2017, 2018,

like that sort of era. So you're going back to the earlier years of Vestappen at the team. But I think the biggest surprise is maybe the downfall of the team in terms of personnel. We know that even if they haven't been in Vestappen's camp, like Horner and the Vestappen, and the Vostappen camp certainly didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things. But I think even Max Vastappen can sit back and say,

Christian Horner's had a lot to do with the success of this team. He's not there anymore. Neither is Helmut Marco, big up Rob Marshall, Adrian Nui and many others too. So I think when there were prospects such as Mercedes out there with Toto Wolf and a long-term commitment to F1, an engine that is clearly very good if you include the battery, that was out there as a possibility.

So for him to go away from that and stay at Red Bull, I do think is quite a statement. What do you think has convinced him to stay, Sam? We've kind of floated that there might be exit clauses which helps sweeten the deal. But do you think there's anything that he's seen from Red Bull

maybe regarding the ICE that has convinced him to make this happen? I imagine that Laurel Meckis has had to really sit down with him and explore what the future of Red Bull looks like. The car development, the engine, I'm sure Ford, were also very heavily involved in those conversations of what they're bringing to the table. And I don't think the staffing is one of these guys.

It's like, I win or I leave. I don't think he's one of those people. He's been through the difficult times at Red Bull. As you mentioned at the start of his career, when they were picking up three or four victories a year at some point. They were scraping a podium if the top guys were unable to create the absolute. performance.

He'd take three or four wins this year, wouldn't he? He would have to take three or four weeks, right? If you said between now and the end of the season, he picks up three victories, great turn on after Rebel. Unreal. So he's been through the tough days and he's seeing the glory days as well. So he really is part of that family. So I'm not surprised that actually Rebel is always going to be his first option.

And if they can explain to him what's wrong, what they need to change and how they're going to do it or what that time frame looks like. Combined with the regulations being slowly adapted that are going to become more suitable to him, I think that makes total sense. I don't think he needs to win every race. I don't think he needs to win the next two championships or whatever to be comfortable. He is a driver that likes to work hard. He likes to drive a fun car.

He likes to have good a car. You like to have good a place for that as anywhere. Plus, this is a team that's built entirely around him. It is. And I think it can be understating enough how much of a difficult challenge it is to pick yourself up from a team, like Lewis Hamilton, Diggum, and say it's different. and go somewhere that is so unfamiliar, so foreign, so not for you, and try and rebuild

that again. So why bother? Why bother? It depends if he's there to win eight titles or if he's there to have a great time in Formula 1 and make lots of money in the process. Equally, I wouldn't be surprised that there's more luxuries, freedoms, flexibilities that he's been afforded by Red Bull with this new contract, such as insurance racing opportunities. We're going to get on to a little bit, but this cart thing that he's doing as part of

the entertainment, right? ESPN. I wouldn't be surprised if that is also included, plus the release clauses I'm sure are begging to that contract. Red Bull will give him things that other teams will not. He's also part of that group. It makes total sense. Harry, I'm not saying this would have definitely changed his view, but Vastappan has known a time at Red Bull when the engine wasn't there. He's had to deal with, particularly in the Renault years and the early Honda years, a lot of unreliability and the power not being there versus rivals. Yeah, at the moment, if you listen to the FIA's reckoning, the ICE is there, it's the benchmark,

and it's maybe the rest of the car that's letting them down. I think if it was the other way round and the car was there and the engine wasn't quite there, he would maybe have been more inclined to go. Yeah, I think that's probably fair, which probably it almost sounds like an odd thing to say, because the car is what Red Bull is responsible for, whereas the engine is down to Ford, right? I know it's Red Bull Power Trains, but I think that makes sense because that's, as we're seeing with, you know, Austin Martin and Honda, the engine is going to take longer to make better than the car is going to. And it only takes a few good upgrades for that to fall into line for the chassis side.

So I think that's a very fair thing to say. And it's, you know, the headlines have been, you mentioned this earlier, Ben, but the headlines have been about, you know, the mass exodus of people that have left Red Bull, you know, very talented people. But they will have taught the people left behind how to do things. And there are still a lot of talented people there.

And also, we all believe in Hannah Schmidt. So why would you go anywhere? I can't believe we've waited this long to mention her. She's the number one reason. But it's people like that, right? It's not not joking at this point, but it's people like that within the team that are still there that still are super talented.

Red Bull aren't, you know, whilst they've taken a beating in terms of the amount of people they've lost, there are a lot of people there that will have, you know, encouraged him to stick around. And even, you know, from the, from the power train side, which I know is ugly with best, but from what we have heard, they've nicked a lot of people

from Mercedes and a lot of people are from Honda, and hence why it's such a good engine, or at least in the FAA's eyes it is. So, yeah, I think it shouldn't be overstated that Red Bull are still a top team in that regard, and that will have helped him convince him that they can turn around this car soon rather than later. Sam, do you believe his claim

that he was closer to retiring than moving to another team? It's hard to debate, isn't it? I'm not a close confident of Max Verstappen. That's why I asked you. You are. I know, I know that the streets have it that we're always in the same place at the same time and that's why I was flowing out there on the Euro star that definitely doesn't fly. So to speak to him and convince him to get this contract down.

Is it like me that he was more likely to retire? I think so. Because I think, again, as we mentioned, and I think we're all in agreement, whilst he cares about winning, I don't think that is the only reason he's in Formula One. If he care about winning, it made total sense that he's. go and get George Russell's seat, drive from the same ease and see what he could do. Makes total sense. But that isn't the case.

He's there to enjoy the sport. And I think Max got huge enjoyment out of the end of the hybrid era, as we originally knew it. I think he really liked the ground effect era due to his success and the car that was built for him, sure. But the racing, I think, suited him well. I think he just hates the racing currently. He hates the way these cars work. So why would go into another team actually help him? Why would it provide it with more enjoyment?

If you win, okay, great. Like, what's the old expression? You know, I ever cries like a Ferrari or whatever it is? Sure, he can win in another car. Try something. Try to say, Sherlock Claire, that. My man has cried at a Ferrari. I just believe that if he was going to do anything,

realistically, it is that he would retire. I have a personal opinion on this that Max Verstappen is not going to care about this particular topic whatsoever, and that's absolutely fine. But it is something that we discuss it from time to time. and this will probably annoy some people out there, so buckle in. I'm personally quite disappointed that he hasn't gone to another team. And whilst I view Vastappen as already an all-time great, which I don't think is a controversial statement at all,

I think he cannot be a part of the greatest of all-time discussion until he moves to a different team. I think that's the one thing that's missing from his, his legacy right now that others in that discussion have. Like Hamilton wins a championship at McLaren, moves to Mercedes, wins a bunch more, and we still don't know what's going to happen in his Ferrari career, of course. Michael Schumacher wins two championships at Benetton and then does everything that he does with Ferrari, building them back up and winning five titles there too. Max Verstappen, and I get that he might not want to do this, and again,

I don't think he cares about the greatest of all-time discussion. I think until he goes into a new environment and essentially replicates that success elsewhere, I can't put him on the same level as those two. That's an interesting point. Be fascinated to say what the list is thinking, and I will not contribute to this. I'm so, because that is absolutely a real.

I'm so excited for the comments already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. But you're right. I don't think he cares one. Of course he doesn't. Not a shot about that, does he?

Do you know, and it would almost be, to what we've already said, if the car was, say the regulation, he was fine with the regulations, but the Red Bull was terrible this year, I think he'd have gone somewhere else rather than retire. But it's been. It's the regs that are the problem. The regs are the problem. He's ridding it through the turbulent time, right? The whole everyone leaving, not knowing what's going on with Christian Horner, moving away

from Helmut Marco, all that stuff. He's done the hard bit. Now it's almost the fun bit. It's the rebuild. It's getting better again. So it will be odd to go through all the crap to then not get the reward at the end. Yeah. I just think maybe that explains why another team, like, you know, Toto hasn't been able to sway

him away because it's not like Red Bullies. They're not great this year, but they're not. terrible and it's big a problem as being with the regulations. I'd love to go what he wants. I'd love there. If you could say that, right, white page, clean, clean white page. You write down anything you want. I'd love to go what he would put.

Yes, fascinating. Let's take a quick break. On the other side, I want to finish off this discussion with a further question on how this might leave the rest of the Red Bull picture right now. And then we'll get into some discussion on Lando Norris and Mercedes. Welcome back, everyone. Just one quick question on the ramifications of the Vastappan contract announcement, and that is what does this mean for the other Red Bull seat? What does this mean for the two racing ball seats? Sam, we've speculated before that Hadjad chances at a seat next year at Red Bull are maybe somewhat tied to not knowing exactly what was happening with Vastappan seat.

Now we know that's a done deal. Do you think that changes anything, or do you think Red Bull will just say this is an opportunity? for us to actually keep a driver line up from one season to the next. Let's just go ahead with that. I think he goes back to the status quo of Red Bull of old. Max Verstappen is the stalwart that gets to say there. He's the guy that we build everything around. Second driver has to prove themselves. And if he doesn't get to race at Monza because of the risk injury

and Lawson has to step in again and Lawson doesn't have a very good job, there might be questions around the gang of going, hang on a minute, both Larson and Limbaugh that take a really good job in the racing balls. they scored more points than we've ever had from a racing balls outfit. They're now losses stepped into that Red Bull after a bit more time in the sport and adds a couple of really good performances, you know, that we're very happy with. This might be a big of a unnecessary, bigger risk for Hagjar here.

It might pile on some pressure that a few weeks ago he wasn't experiencing because everyone was kind of like, well, the staff might leave, might retire, might go to have a team, two seats available. If there's two seats available, the chances are Hagar probably gets one of them. So whatever, all good. The car's got amazing. We move on. But now it's one seat available.

And, you know, the four-time champion for Red Bull, Max for Stappen remains, Hajar has to kind of do the job now. I don't think it's as hard as a job as it used to be. I don't think he's being looked at like Perez was when they were in a championship fight, for example. But I do think he's going to have to still turn up and make sure he's getting close enough results to Max for them to go, yeah, we're still happy. We're still happy. But, you know, I think it's just classic do your job.

you'll be all right. Where do you think it leaves racing balls? I think Solov is getting more and more likely to take that title. And if he does, I think they'll want him in that junior car next year. I don't know who they do it with. You can have to make a decision, right? I think Lawson gets the cup because of age, unfortunately, even though I think he's been bloody brilliant this season.

But hopefully, if he carries that on, and other team pick him up and he continues to thrive. where do you think this leaves the second red bull seat harry and then also raising balls yeah second red ball seat straight yeah i think hijab will be desperate to get back for monza um fortunate wrist is like falling off like i'm good to go boss i'm good to go yeah yeah well i mean of all tracks monza's probably one of the best ones because not many corners true yeah um but just i think even more so like he says um it was a solid performance from lorsson

and more time in that car across another weekend that isn't a sprint. No, it's a lot of one. Singapore's the next sprint. Oh, God. Enjoy that one. I'll wait for that one. Good Lord. Anyway, but yeah, across a proper, you know, three practice weekend,

I'm not sure Hager wants to give that opportunity to Lawson. You know, as you mentioned, Sam, a driver that's been driving very well this year and could jump into the car in Zandvort and do a, you know, a relatively solid job. So yeah, he'll be keen to get back. I don't think it's, you know, it gave over for Hajak because I think he's done a solid enough job this year. Yeah, two races shouldn't change everything, right?

No, absolutely not, but I think you'll be keen to get back. I think realistically, they'll keep the line up they've got because I sense Laura Mecky's is not interested in the old way of Red Bull and replacing drivers year after year because it hasn't really worked for them.

so I think they'll keep what they've got. As for racing balls, yeah, I'm with you. I think they'll maybe they'll give Lawson one more year. We've seen other drivers stay at racing balls, you know, Al-Fa-Tari, whatever, Menardi, for longer than maybe they should have done. And I think maybe they'll give him one more year, which would, you know, I think the cut would seem very unfair.

but it's a tough one because if that red ball seat is locked in it would then mean they'd need a they'd need, sorry, Lawson would need Hadjar to then have a terrible next year because I don't see him carrying one after that at all.

So tough one. I think they'll lean towards keeping him for one more but I could also see your way of seeing it, Sam. Yeah, I think even though again we've discussed that Hadjars future might be tied to Verstappans. I think we're at a point now where they are just going to

play it safe and keep Hajar at the team. But the Racing Bulls pitcher is very congested if we've got three names fighting over two seats. And, look, I mean, Solov, if he wins the F2 title, that is a tough one to turn down, but it is going to be difficult to kick out

either Limblud or Lawson. Certainly Limbludd based on his age and his potential. I can't see him going anywhere. And that just leaves a straight fight between Lawson and Solov, I am starting to lean towards. They might actually just keep the status quo here and Lawson does stay for another year. And Solov needs to learn Japanese as he's off to do Super Formula. Will be the first time they've done that right? No, they wouldn't. Pierre Gasley did it. Larson did it? Yeah, yeah. He also did DTM.

Yes, he did. Stolen off him in the last bloody lap. He was going to win that championship. Yeah, Lawson and Alex Albin have both done DTM from memory. Alex Adam was going to do Formula E, if you remember. Yeah, Nissan, wasn't it? Yeah, last minute, it was, it all came together. God, what a bizarre world motorsport is. Like, one or two days can just change your whole career.

Yeah. Let's move on to Lando Norris, because he said that he and McLaren don't have the car that he needs to fight for a championship, despite, of course, coming off a second consecutive win. Strange time to say that, by the way. Well, we'll get on to that because victory at Zamvort means Norris sits 83 points off Kimmy Antonelli's lead. But while McLaren have made a major step forward with upgrades to their car, Norris believes the car still has too many flaws.

He said, we have a strong car in certain areas. It's not like last year where we were pretty good everywhere. We're very, very strong in high speed. And that's the place we've improved the car the most is high speed performance. no one matches us there, but Mercedes' advantage that they have to us in slow speed is also crazy. I know I've just won two races in a row and had two poles in a row, but at the minute, I don't have the car I need to fight for a championship. I know that's quite a big comment. Well, Sam, given you thought this was a weird time to say this, I'll ask you the question of, do you agree with what he's saying?

Yeah, man who shows he's very good at something publicly says. they're not that good at something. I've been really enjoying Mando Norris recently, the last few Grand Prix. I know that's a funny thing to say, but you know what? We're doing funny things to say. Mando's gone first. Lando Norris and Joyer. I've gone second.

He has been really great. Last two grand prix, fantastic. But even before that, he was really on the up. And his comments that felt solid. It feels like he's in a really good place mentally within the sport. He feels very confident and comfortable in that team. And I think there are some truth to what he's saying. I think it's

the car is very good in high speed corners in intense downforce corners that are not me like it's not a Monaco don't put them on ago they're getting a struggle but at a Zandvo

at Hungary at Qatar at Brazil I think these places are very much home to McLaren right now and we saw a track

such as Austria they did struggle a little bit right they weren't the ones fighting at the very front despite not being too far off the pace

as we've seen previously they weren't fighting right at the very front I think the car is very good right now. And it has to be to take two poles and two wings in a row against that Mercedes. The ultimate test is coming up. The next Grand Prix is the ultimate test for them. Monza, pure straight line, harsh on battery.

We're going to see cars going at like half speed down the straight, which is going to absolutely kill me. And Mercedes, by far are the best of their battery management going. So if Mercedes-strike a 1-2 here, every time they knock back Lando Norris, it just becomes that little bit harder. If McLaren can win a Monza, they can take it all.

Landonorris can mount a title charge. He has got a small enough gap that that gap can be overheld. I think that is the tipping point, as Ben Shepard might say. I do genuinely think that Ben Shepard restaurants, God, he's the man.

I do think that that is the deciding factor on if this is going to be a Mercedes-style, fight or a McLaren versus Mercedes with Ferrari maybe playing a role in the middle. Harry, as we know when it comes to F1, expectation management is absolutely not a thing and never will be a thing. These drivers and these team bosses will never go out there and downplay their chances. So it's not that. So what is he talking about here?

No, never, ever. Never, ever. Never could be them. No. I can somewhat see what he's going for here. And I think, as you've just said, Sam, the, he's won two, yes, he's won two races. And that car was comfortably, in his hands, was comfortably the best car out there at both Hungary and Zandvort,

at least in the, definitely the race. Although he got poles as well. But I think, like we've said previously, relatively similar tracks in terms of, in terms of being tight and twisty. So, yeah, it suited the McLaren car in this current iteration, these upgrades need to work at other

tracks as well. I think Monza, I think Monza could well be good for them, but it remains to be seen. So I get why he's trying to, you know, have a bit of caution with this and not go ahead of himself,

and I get that. But McLaren certainly look in much better shape now than they did post Miami, for example, I'd say because whilst the car was competitive there, he did miss out on the win, but more than the sprint, they couldn't then transfer that into the following races and sort of drop back again.

So I think they can be more confident now. I think having a bit of caution over a championship challenge, whilst they hate the management expectation that happens all the time in F1, I get it for this point of view. I think it's probably relatively sensible because they are still they're quite far back.

Haint sensible. Go for it. I get, if the points gap was a bit closer, I'd say, shut up, Lando,

you could still do this. It's still quite well. If he wins Monza and closes down again, then let's see. I think we do not have the car to do this is a bit extreme.

I think if it just said like, I don't know if we do. Fine, but it's just the, yeah, he was very clear, like we don't have it right now. But he has also been quite clear as well as to what they would need in order to have that car, which is this sort of lower slow speed corner improvement versus Mercedes. I agree with what you both have said in terms of Hungary and Zambort. They are so similar. And the upgrades have clearly been effective at both tracks.

And he's got two pole positions at these two events. and he's won both of these races by over 10 seconds, which by itself is a great achievement. But that's not even considering the fact that when you hear someone has won a race by 10, 15, 20 seconds, you immediately think, okay, that's probably a lights-to-flag-ish type of win. Landon Norris hasn't had either of those. He's had to work at both races in order to get that win. In which case, you have to ask the question,

like, if he led away from Polm on both occasions and just been able to run his own race, You probably got a one, at least one of these by like 30 seconds. So the signs are very good for McLaren, but they are very similar circuits. And McLaren have just been too inconsistent so far this year, which is something they need to fix. Like Lano Norris, for example, he has four podiums this year. That's it. And if you think, well, two of those are wins. And then he also had a second in Miami.

He had the third place in Barcelona as well. he's got 83 points from those four races. If you then add together the other eight races, plus the sprints we've had, he's got 76 from all of those. So so many of his points have come from just a few select races where McLaren have been really good. The next step is proving that they can beat Mercedes anywhere, which takes us to, as Sam, you put it,

a very important Monza weekend, because if you're not very good at low-speed corners, Monza is going to catch you out. And I think the last time, I appreciate there's a bit of a balance, but the last time we had some slow speed corners, I think Austria's definitely got a few of them. They were not very good there. Monaco, of course, another good reference point.

The crazy thing is, though, and I agree that maybe we need to see what they'll do at Monza. It's an 83 point gap to Antonelli. If we have another 11 races this year as are scheduled, we're halfway through the year. Like, we're not, like, we haven't got six races to go. There's so much time. if they can prove they can beat Mercedes consistently.

And we're going to get onto this. If the rumours are true that Toto Wolf is saying that they can't afford to do more with the car, development stops at Mercedes and maybe they understand the battery more, frot that McLaren, the engine more at McLaren. The sky feels like the limit. I feel that they need to push now while the, you know, Mercedes almost unexpectedly weak and kind of go for it, or they have to put a hard halt on their year as well and move to next year and let the sameers have it.

this next Grand Prix is pivotal in the title fight. Well, you mentioned Toto Wolf's comments. They're broke. What can we say? Mercedes are bankrupt. I'll buy them for a pound. I'll put in the request to Toto Wolf and we'll see what happens. It'd be like one of those relocation shows where the estate agent's making the phone call on the TV show.

Live. Yeah, but yours is one pound. Yeah. Yeah. Toto Wolf's going, yeah, we need the money. The seller's come back. He's said to do one. Yeah.

That does sound a lot like Toto Wolf, actually. Yeah. Well, he said Mercedes haven't got the money to develop at the same rhythm as their championship rivals. He said, we haven't got the money to put developments on the car. We are trying to evenly split that throughout the season based on our calculations of when we can bring the biggest updates and optimizing the championship points. So, yeah, the ride has been a bit tougher than at the beginning of the year.

challenged on the point that McLaren and Ferrari did have the money to improve their cars. Wolf replied, you will see how towards the end of the season whether they are going to be able to deploy as much stuff on the car as they do now. Someone might have a different strategy in spending more at the beginning

and in the middle of the year than towards the end. Harry, expectation management isn't something that would happen. And certainly not from Toto Wool. He's not the pro at it. They don't have any money. I have to take his comments at Face Valley.

Broke, like you said, Mercedes are bankrupt, washed, they are, they no longer exist. For legal reasons, this is sarcasm and it's a joke. Yes, Mercedes lawyers, please don't come after us. Yeah, oh God, I've not missed, I've not missed this version of Toto. He's been gone for a little while,

but I don't believe that whatsoever. And to be fair, it's almost like he's tried to backtrack and what he said with the follow-up statement about, we even need splitting it throughout the year because that I do believe I do believe more it's just about how they're spending it not that we don't have the money

shut up Toto and yeah maybe that is a strategy that will pay off for them given the lead they have whilst McLaren and sometimes Ferrari at this point can close it down as we get towards the end of the season

if Mercedes can continue bringing more upgrades than the other team. So maybe it will pay off. It's all, that's all the challenge of the cost cap, isn't it in F1 these days? And it depends how you want to play it.

We'll see what happens. A part of me is thinking that he doesn't want to spend as much because he wants to save it for next year. He's trying to get away with it, as you've mentioned before, Ben. What? I know. No way.

Wild claim. so he may at some point if the points get gap gets a little bit squeakier a little bit closer Toto may find an extra tenor down the back of the sofa at Brackley

there's probably a lot of Tegas at the back of that sofa well he might find at least 20 good I bet the sofa's made of Tangers he's like I've got no money as he sat on the sofa of tennis you're on the money

no no no my question would be why does that exist My question would be, why is it just 10 pound notes? Because it's easier to disguise, I don't know. They're a nice colour. Yeah. Yeah, I suspect this is more about it.

You know, the strategy they're doing with deploying the money and their upgrades. And if things get closer and they do need to deploy it, then they will. Because Mercedes haven't won a driver's title since 2020 and a constructor since 21. Yeah. It's been a while. But the good news is if you do go to the episode description in the notes there, you'll find the opportunity to get involved with our crowd funder that we are putting together for Mercedes. Every penny does go a long way.

Just giving page for Toto Wolf. Should we actually do that? Perfect. For a Toto Wolf in like black and white. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got this. Get a target of like five. 500 quid or something.

Send it off to them. There you go. Every little helps. And we pocket all of it. We're correct. Suck it, Soto. Give me a sofa. I don't believe you, Toto.

You each get $215 million to spend across all areas, all teams get the same amount. And Mercedes have brought one significant upgrade this year. That was at Canada, which was a while ago,

now, if you remember all the way back to that race, Ferrari and McLaren are bringing upgrades nearly every weekend. And yet Mercedes cannot find anything after that one significant upgrade. Where's the money gone? I tend to think he might be, I don't say he's lying, but he might be being careful with his words here. I think Andrea Stella had some comments on this as well, where I don't think he could directly say it. I don't think he believes that Mercedes aren't going to bring any upgrades for the rest of this year.

We know a duo, by the way, that they've got at least something to spend there. We haven't seen anything from them yet in that regard. And to what you said, Harry, I think they're just trying to balance this year's development with next year's development, waiting to see how far Ferrari and McLaren will push this year.

And it kind of sounds like they are going to before they start to think, we might need to just extend the gap a little bit more this year before we can start to turn our attention to next year. Don't believe you, Toto. Sam, you believe him, right? Oh, no. Talking absolute pumping a call, Toto Wolf.

Atrocious comments. It's one of two things. Either the big upgrade package that they brought to Canada cost so much more than they expected that actually this is a monumental failure and that's all they've been able to do and therefore someone should be responsible it's definitely not that, but that is in theory a reason.

Or like you've both mentioned, they're saving as much Mular as possible to get into the next season to make the car even better again. And this is text, but what they did in the hybrid era. This is how they got their car to be best thing. Everyone else is year after year after year, because they started with such a gap. They can let that gap come down towards the end of the season, and they kick that gap down the road again.

And that's how they make it work. Toto, in these comments, talks about how, you know, it's funny how people decide their upgrade strategy some like to do it all at the start, some in the middle, some might even do it at the end. Who's doing it at the end? Ferrari, Abadabia upgrade. Yeah, sure.

The famous Abu Dhabi upgrades. It's going to for your families. Any actual strategic person goes at, unless you're, I know, neck and heck and a title fight, you aren't bringing upgrades in the last couple of races. What a waste of time and money? So he's talking, as I mentioned, pure pumping nickel. It will all be put into against his car.

They're trying to basically win the title with one point in either championship with no money spent. So next year, they can roll a load a load of it into next year and go, well, hey, development between the period of November through to December, we've absolutely pumped it into the 20207 car, and then we're ahead again.

This is exactly where it's going. It's textbook, Toto, Wolf, Texerick, Mercedes. Let's take another break. On the other side, we've got some comments from Max Verstappen about standing drivers in 2026. Welcome back, everyone. Some more comments from Max for Stapp.

It's a Max for Stapp and heavy episode today. I'm okay with that. can we say. Come on. I'm going to read this one, especially in qualifying, I think it's a lot easier nowadays with these cars to find the limit, because you're also in quite a few places where you're a bit down on battery and everything becomes a bit easier to land.

For Stappen said, when asked if Lawson and Sonodas gaps at the most recent Grand Prix, where evidence drivers can make less of a difference this year. I think that demonstrated quite well this weekend compared to the previous cars. For me, that's not a surprise. You see it already the whole season. everyone is always within one-tenth, two-tamps. If you are having a very bad qualifying, maybe three-tenths, it's always the margins that are small.

Sam, do you agree with this? Do you think that the 20-26 season is proving and maybe the most recent race with Lawson and Sonoda? Sonoda, of course, coming into the sport, Lawson-changing teams. The ability to get able to speak quite quickly, does that point to these cars being easier to drive in any way? I'm really glad you've come to me with this, Ben,

as someone who is so regularly in a Formula One car. that I can talk directly to the experience of how easy it is to drive them. And actually, it's really bloody difficult. So, you know, don't try at home. No, I think it credits the quality of the drivers that we have available on the grid right now. And I don't think this is a current thing. We've had drivers stepping in the past before and do a very good job. Olly Behrman managed to do it, of course, moving to the Ferrari,

when he had to replace Carlos Sites. For example, when he had that issue, Nick DeFries did it in Monsang scored points. You know, it's not like this is a, now thing, and this season thing only, getting into a Formula One car where you're a talented and skilled driver is not the most difficult thing in the world. It's a place

you're very much accustomed to. It's like going and living somewhere else's home for a night. Like, all right, you might not go where every switch and every button is, but very quickly you can work out that the bedroom is probably upstairs and the bathroom is nearby. You can work out where the bin is. Yeah, ideally, a good being is always

very helpful. Also, if there's Koi Karp in the back garden, honestly, it's very simple to work out. So whilst I see his understanding, these cars feel like, as we've heard with many drivers, there's so much more going on in the cockpit. I'd argue that a driver who has being a part of a program, of course, a test driver for Red Bull, Reserve Driver, also, of course, during half a season so far in racing balls, one racing Red Bull, they're very accustomed to the setup. And whilst you can say it hasn't done a lot of time in the car, and he understands how these cars work. So yes, you're only like a practice session.

Yes, it took a bit of time to pick up, but he's got it. If you asked someone who goes and drives an indie car to get into this car, they might suddenly be like, right, I'm going to get a couple of races. It's going to take me a minute to get used to how the electronic side of things work, what the battery does. That's a different challenge. But I think he's being a little critical unnecessarily of some very talented drivers that are already very accustomed with controls.

And that makes it look easier than it actually is. The only thing I would push back on there is that if Stingray Rob came to F1, you'd get it straight away. There's an exception to every rule. And that exception is Stingway Rob. Stingway Rob is always the exception. It's never in a good way. It's always the exception.

Harry, do you agree with what Max Verstappen's saying here? Can you understand his point? First day, I enjoyed it, despite signing a multi-year contract, my guy's still got on a little dig at the regs that he hates. I still hate them, guys, so don't worry about it. Just straight, nothing. Yeah. Me and the regs, we are not friends.

Look, some part of me agrees with this, but I don't think it's the 2026 regs specific thing. I think F1 has been easier for drivers to jump up into quite a few years now. And at the same time, I also agree with your point, Sam. I think the drivers that are coming up through the ranks, you know, through F2 and F3, et cetera, are the ones that at least are being promoted and you know we'll have to do the standard or whatever

they're at a higher level than we've ever had before but I do think F1 especially in race trim maybe not in qualifying is not as maybe demanding as it once was just because of the way that it used to be with tyre management now this year it's you know a bit more battery related but they're not necessarily I'm thinking back to the naughtys or early teens

where F-1 drivers were having to go flat out all times because the ties held up and they could just, they had to. And it was a tough thing to get involved in. So, yeah, I take his point a little bit because I think I do agree, but I don't think it's a 2026 regulation-specific thing. I think it just has been for a while. And yeah, as to your board,

once, Sam, these drivers are very talented that are jumping in the car. And to be honest, there isn't any other formula that runs these weird battery regulations of that in itself is something to get your head around. If you didn't, that's a tough thing to think about, even if you are coming from F2. We saw Australia, right? Like, not everyone had that stuff straight away. No, no, everyone's worked it out. And, and, you know, if you, Yuki Sonoda, for example, he had been doing stuff in the SIM,

but he still had to get, you know, it has to still do the practical application of doing it on track to get it worked out. So I think it just speaks to the talent of the drivers. Yeah, I understand his point. Certainly in qualifying, Liam Lawson was up to pace with Vastappen pretty quickly. As I think you could maybe expect,

like the regular race portion of the weekend was better than the sprint portion of the weekend. But Lawson was a tenter. away from Vastappen in Q3 in qualifying for the main race. And it was about the same in Q1 of that same session. And that average gap to Max Vestappen, that's kind of what we've seen from Hadja all year. So it's not fundamentally different. And you can maybe look at other teammate battles so far this year as well and point to them being pretty close. Like, Gassley and Colopinto, you'd still say Gassley has been the stronger of the two. But equally,

it's maybe closer than it was last year. Bortoletto and Holkenberg, we know, have been very close all year long. LaClair and Hamilton obviously far closer than it was last year. So my instinct is that Vastappen is like partially correct in this in that I think it's, I think it's easier to get closer to your teammate, like from the off with these regs, but I think it's more difficult to make up that final 10th. I think you can get to a point of being competitive because in a lot of these corners, you're not quite at 100%. But then finding those real like cadences

of battery management like that that's the stuff that does take a little bit longer and you can't just find that in one weekend so that's where I think he's maybe kind of correct I think Andrea Stella as well has had some comments on this

and when he said like because Andrea Stella kind of said I understand his point and there isn't really a way to prove it but there are things like obviously the battery management we've spoken about but these tyres are smaller this year. Downforce and grip are far less this year.

Like, there might be things that are easier. There are things that are more difficult too. You hear what Sebastian better. You can say right about driving a computer. And this car is quite literally a computer as AI embedding into it. It's 50% car at this point. If you struggle with having to use the dials constantly, having to change your modes,

having to make sure you've got all the little finite bits on the computer that is in your steering wheel, that's the hard bit. the actual going around and cork a bit, these drivers are trying to do, constantly. You're right, it's that extra 10%. Not exactly an extra,

much of a talking point, but I thought I'd at least raise it when it comes to Max Verstappen. The news that broke, I think about three or four hours before we started recording, that there's going to be a Netflix special in about a,

well, not even a month's time, maybe about three weeks time, where he's going to be at Silverstone, racing a hundred people in some sorts of cart thing. I sure. I mean we see these challenges now, right?

We see like downhill skier overtakes 100 rookies and uphill cyclist tries to pass 100 rookies and these top tier athletes going up against a lot of rookies. This is the next one, I guess. It's going to be quite fascinating. I have no doubt that he wings. It feels like not that actually difficult for someone of his talent. There's a darts one coming up as well

where Lutlittler's facing off against people. who think they can beat Luke Littler and, and again, it's a Netflix special. So, yeah, you're right. It does seem to be a bit of a thing right now. I would love to have been in the meeting when they pitched that to Max Verstappen. Have you seen the social clip of him like, yeah,

with the paper, he's like, just give me the holiday. Please just give me the holiday. Man hates anything that is not ira racing or Formula One. Max, we've got an idea? No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. Still no. Still, regardless of what the author is, no. They're probably interviewing on the day when he's doing it. Are you excited? No. No. I hate this.

Maybe that's part of this new contract. It might be. I was going to say, whoever comes second actually gets the Red Bull seat next to him. Phanano Alonzo is in one of the cars. Everyone else is like 15. Yeah. And it turns up completely in disguise. God goes who he is.

It's Phonondo. Yeah, that's his entry game. He's number 13 in the car. Oh, good. Shall we do our F1 fantasy update? Yeah. So top three in the championship still out front. Never Lewis Faith.

Lumley Speed Syndicate still sits second, but a new challenger arrives in third place. Czechos sombreros. Nice. Good name, right? Just 12 points separating those three teams, though, so we could see a bit of a shake-up at any point between now and the end of the year.

Congratulations to the Zanvort winner. Who's your caddy? 418 points. Use it a clever strategy here, using the three times, two times on Antonelli, three times on Lando Norris. That'll work.

That'll work. That'll do nicely. Speaking of doing nicely, I think all four of us improved this week. So I am just about maintaining this lead. Two hundred and first at the moment. But Sam,

you are also in the 200s, 288th. I am. Kirsty back into the top 500, 446th. Harry, you said what yours was, but I've written down 710th, which sounds about right. That is exactly right, yeah, 710th. I'm almost in the top 500,

so you can just find me myself, find you myself at some point. Give it some ones, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In one week, finding 210 positions, are being pressed. I'm going to have 81 positions that week.

I was very pleased. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good jump. I thought I was having trouble, but it was quite happy. Uber scoring your points. I've brought London garrison,

but I thought I'd be in trouble because I had Colopinto and bought a letter, and I thought, oh gosh, they'd have a ripe shocker. And I was okay. Not over them retired, though, right? No, it's the penalties for Colopinto, I thought was going to get me.

Yeah, you want to avoid the DNFs in those midfield drivers. That's the key. So good week for you, Sam. But good week for all four. of us. Let's take our final break on the other side. We're playing F1 back and forth. Welcome back, everyone, to the final part of today's episode. It's now time for F1, back and forth. F1. Back and forth, it's F1. Back and forth, it goes backwards, then goes forth,

it's F1, back and forth, F1. F1, F1, back and forth. F1, back and forth. F1, back and forth. if Harry and Sam will go up against each other, there's a number of correct answers in this category, and the loser will be the one that can't think of a correct answer or gives an incorrect answer. I'm going to give you two strikes on this one today, because I'm not going to say it's necessarily easy or difficult, but I think there's going to be a lot of names where you're like,

that's definitely in here, and then go, actually maybe not. Okay, good. So I want you to name today the 16th, drivers, 16, that have had a podium in nine consecutive seasons. So if they've had podiums in 10 seasons, but they've had them in five years and then they didn't have one, and then they had another five years of a podium, they are not on this list. That's been nine consecutive seasons. And there are 16 correct answers to this question. We will start with Sam.

Lewis Hamilton. Lewis Hamilton, not only a correct answer. He is number one on this list. 18 consecutive seasons between 2007 and 2024. Of course, has had a podium this year as well, but didn't have one last year in his first year at Ferrari. Harry. Michael Schumacher.

Michael Schumacher is the second answer on this list. 15 consecutive seasons going all the way back to 1992 until his first retirement in two. 2006. Sam? Max Verstappen. Max Verstappen is a correct answer. A podium in 11 consecutive seasons and essentially that covers his entire Red Bull career 2016 until 2026. Harry? I don't know anymore. That's a real problem, my master.

That's how the game works. Would Rosberg have had that? is not a correct answer. Oh no. Unless I'm missing him somewhere, I don't think I am. Don't have to search that. If he's not correct, Ben, don't worry. It just sounds like it's a right answer,

but he's not nice. He's only in the top car for like five years. True. Yeah. He did get some podiums at Williams, but maybe not. It wasn't nine years. It was true.

Sam, back to you. Sebastian Vettel. Sebastian Vettel is a correct answer. 14 consecutive seasons between 2008 and 2021. Harry. Oh, no. Alonzo. Fernando Alonzo.

Fernando Alonzo. 12 consecutive seasons between 2003 and 2014. Sam. Prost. Prost. is a correct answer. 11 seasons between 1981 and 1991.

Harry. Senna? Sena is a correct answer. 10 consecutive seasons, 84 to 93. Sam? Jackie Stewart. Jackie Stewart is a correct answer.

So a podium in nine consecutive seasons, Stewart has exactly nine. I believe his career was nine seasons. seasons long, but he had a podium in every single one of them. So, my guy. The correct answer, 63 to the year he retired, 1973. Harry.

Nigel Mansell? Nigel Mansell is a correct answer. 12 for him from 1981 until 1992. Sam? Hackanan. Hackan is... Oh, I was about I say he's not a correct dancer. He is a correct answer.

Nine exactly, 1993, until 2000. Of course, if he gets a podium when he returns to the sport, presumably next year, that won't count. I won't change the stat. There are six names left on this list, Harry. Rubens Barakello. Rubens Barakello is not a correct class. Oh, no.

Seven consecutive for him. Is Harry's second strike? Sam, back to you. I think I got to say. That's an obvious solution, world champions that were very good over a long period of time. Nelson P.K., not junior, obviously. Nelson P.K. Jr. is not correct, that. But Nelson P.K. Senior is, you've picked another one that has exactly nine,

1980 until 1988. Harry, back to you. D.C. D.C. Corses. Corses are correct answer. Corses is. Ten consecutive seasons. Who's a better driver?

but David Cuthard and Mika Hacken, that speaks for it. speaks for itself. David Cuthard had a podium in 10 consecutive seasons, Hacken only nine. Who cares about world titles? You know what? David Cuthard probably has a plaque above like his office or something that says that. He's that type of guy. I hope I'm like his good mood mantra.

I hope he hears my voice when he talks about himself. You're a great guy. Thanks, Sam. Four answers left, Sam. I'm struggling and I'm not going to lie. Other world champions in this mantra that I'm going with, let's try Jim Clark. Jim Clark is another name with exactly nine consecutive seasons.

Corblimin. 1960 until 1968. Harry, have you got another name somewhere? Graham Hill? Graham Hill had a podium. in eight seasons. Which means, Sam, you take the win this time around. Any guesses for the last three?

Fangio? No to Fangio? Are they world champions? None of them are world champions. Right, my mangrove doesn't work anymore. That's good. Yeah. In that case, no.

I'll take the double move on. What era are we talking about? Yeah, give us some eras. Come on. Let's work it out. You've got one that's 80s to 90s, one that's all in the 90s, and one that's 90s to 90s. A burger be one? Berger had 12 consecutive seasons, yeah. 86 until 97. Ralph Schumacher?

Yeah, Ralph Schumacher's there. 10 between 1997 and 2006. Always saying he was underrated. How's he done that? The last one also has nine. If you think about Gerhard Berger, you'll probably get this one. Jean-Alese. John Lacey. Yeah.

1990 until 1998. A couple of the near misses, if you're wondering at home. Bottas, Reikkonen, Jackie Hicks. They've all had eight consecutive, as has Charles LeCler, actually. So he could. Oh, I nearly went for Charlotte. Yeah, he was close. Signs and Norris, both seven as well.

But yeah, good effort from you both. Well done, Sam, on the win. And your prize, of course, is to get us out of here. I love that. It's my favourite prize. If you wouldn't mind following us on Facebook, that would be great. It's late breaking F1. Go to 5K. We go out of the channels are growing, but we also love a bit off Facebook. Anyway, thank for joining us. We'll check out some more content. Patrons there for you, checking out. It's pretty cheap per month and massively support the show. Join the Discord. We'd love to have you in there. chatting F1. I will see you, hopefully, coming up for a little bit of mongas soon, you know, it's only a week away. In the meantime, I've been saying message. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Ben Shepherd.

And remember, keep breaking late.