The Late Braking F1 Podcast - What we make of Cadillac's shock team principal change

Episode Date: August 16, 2026

F1 finally delivered some news! Ben and Sam give their take on Cadillac's surprising leadership change and what it could mean for their F1 project. They also make their development predictions for the Top 4 this season, and answer some listener questions. Join us in Amsterdam for pre-Dutch GP drinks! CLICK HERE for event details and to confirm your attendance. Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get:Ad-free listeningFull-length bonus episodesPower Rankings after every raceHistorical race reviews& more exclusive extras!Don't forget! You can also gift a Late Braking Patreon subscription—perfect for loved ones or your own wish list. Choose anything from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking:You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats!Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us! LEAGUE CODE: C6Y6R4ZUY02Get in touch any time at [e-mail]  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thank you for listening to the late-breaking F-1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. And welcome to the late-breaking F-1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking, here mercifully with the last episode before we can get into a preview for the Dutch GP and then back into the season as a whole. Sam, we are psyched about that. But that doesn't mean we're not psyched about this episode. I got a good feeling about this one.

Oh, you may Ben, always. got a good feeling. Just seeing a little sprinkle of how are you eating it makes it the best feeling. Yeah, the summer break can be good if it actually brings drama or news or something interesting, but surprisingly quiet. At least we've had some news on the build-up to this episode that we can actually talk about and we've got some bits and pieces. So, you know, plenty to dig into. Yeah, coming up on today's episode, we've got a Q&A coming up a little bit later on. So we will have some answers to your questions. A bit of a talk on potential upgrade plans for the top teams. as we head into the second half of the season,

but we are going to start with the news that, I know you're new to this Cadillac, was announced on Wednesday. We record episodes on Tuesday for Wednesday. Therefore, your news did not make it in time for us. We don't mean to be selfish about all of this. The F1 world should revolve around our podcast. That's their one pass.

They've had their newbie passed. They don't get another go. They're not on the naughty list yet. But you do it again. There will be punishment. There will. And that is because Cadillac has announced a change. of team principal as Marsing Budkowski takes over with Graham Loudon departing.

Loudon has been a key player in the Cadillac F1 project from its very early stages, but has been replaced as team principal with immediate effect, a decision that was led by the team and not a mutual one, according to Team CEO Dan Taurus. Loudon therefore hands over the reins to Marsing Budkowski, who brings a lot of experience to the role following stints at the likes of Renault and Alpine, Ferrari and McLaren. I'm not sure about you, Sam,

but this one surprised me. It didn't feel like this was coming. What was your reaction to the news? Timing-wise, definitely surprised. Out of all the shifts that we could have had across the summer break, a leadership change in Kagalak was not the one that I was anticipating.

In terms of the roles and how it's actually going to work for Kagalak, I can see why they've done it, and we can get into that and a bit. But Louding is being integral, central, bringing kind of like into Formula One. He has been the orchestrator behind the scenes of kind of making sure that the F1 team is saying up properly. He's the ones that are kind of bringing them into the sport, understanding the legal bits of

kind of how to make a Formula One team. So it's only 11 races in. And all of a sudden you've gone, cheers, cheers, bud. Time for Budkowski to come in rather than you to carry us through. Sorry, mate. Yeah, out you go. You haven't done enough in 11 races. With a brand new team, a brand new set of regulations.

and the car is falling apart every Grand Prix, which you have no actual say on. Yeah, I thought it was a little brutal, a little quick, and I thought it was a bit sad as well that he was not involved as holding any way, shape, or form, and basically informed of the decision so briefly before the announcement actually took place publicly. So, surprised that Kagalaka made this movie,

because I do think he's really being a real servant for Kagalak in the early days of bringing them from what was Andretti, which then became Kangalak, which then became a Formula One team. So I am surprised that they've shipped him off just so early. I feel like it's more savage as well that they didn't do this like two days after the Hungarian Grand Prix. Where like I know we've had this summer shutdown as we always do over the F1 season. But we were starting obviously to get closer to the Dutch GP.

Everyone's revving back up for the second half of the year. Graham Loudoun is surely like thinking in his head like, these are my plans. These are my targets for the rest of the year. I'm looking my flights to Amsterdam. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'll get a good seat. I've got to put me pre-dinger meal and everything on there for the flight.

Budkowski's got meals for two. Like he's going to take Graham Flabrid's meal and everything. What was Graham watching? Let me just jump back into that season. Yeah. Thanks, mate. I was surprised about this. I didn't see this coming because, at least from the outside,

there wasn't really any indication of dissatisfaction in the pace that the project was coming together. I know it's been tough and that they haven't scored any points at this point in the year, and they're the only team to be able to say that. But I thought Cadillac were making about as much progress as I expected them to be. Loudoun is a highly respected name in the F1 Paddock. He did very well at Manor about 10 years ago, and for those of you who were asking, what on earth is a manor?

That was a team that was around a decade ago. And the fact that you maybe don't know who they are or can't remember them is because, well, they had such a lack of resource and a lack of resource. lack of money that the team eventually folded, but what Loudon did to keep them in the sport and keep them relatively competitive towards the end, at least, you know, they got a few points here and there. He deserves a lot of respect for that, but he never had the opportunity to properly kick on, like the team wasn't set up for that. I figured this would be his opportunity to show that not only can he bring a team to the grid and have them somewhat fighting, but then

push forward, but just nowhere near enough time. for that to be the case. Yeah, yeah, I was pretty shocked at the transition. He has, like I said, brought them to the grid, but maybe now they're on the grid, they're looking at the issues that they're seeing, the likes of Askin Martin, Williams, developing, the car falling apart in fact, 9DNF so far this season

across the pair of drivers. Maybe they're looking at that technical cycle thing, is now rather than just cementing themselves as one of those teams. I feel like that has to be part of the reasoning. I quite honestly don't agree with it. Like, I think you've got other teams that have realize that this thing takes time.

Like these recoveries don't happen overnight. I don't think you can call Cadillac a recovery, obviously, but you can't expect success overnight. I know we clown Alpine all the time for the 100 race plan that they had because it was an utter failure. But at least they respected, like this thing was going to take five seasons to turn around.

Audio targeting success in 2030 for a reason, even like McLaren, for example, if to the naked eye, you might say, well, one day they were in the midfield, the next day they were fighting at the front, that's a recovery that happened overnight. It really isn't. It's like seven to ten years of recovery. It's what happened for McLaren.

You got to remember they weren't competitive from about 2015 through to maybe 2022, 2022, 2023. They started to actually. Exactly. Exactly. So Kalaak know their trajectory. They know they're not bringing their own engine, for example, until, what is it, 2029 that they're going to start running their own power unit.

So you've got to really think, you've got to get your base. sorted, get your foundations in place, build up your hierarchy and your systems and your, your processes before going, well, I mean, our car isn't fighting at the front. Well, no, it won't fight the front until you've got all the bricks laid. You can't have a roof until you got walls. And I think it loudie was a very good option for them to start building those walls. But Kelsey's the kind of guy you're bringing when you go, right, I want to stay at the art kitchen. Because he's got the experiencing Alping in the FIA, Ferrari. He's being around the block. He's a very experienced guy. He's a great grab for Kagalak. Just give it another

rating months. I don't know why they're going to write this second. I wanted to read out Hazer's comment on Patreon when we put this as part of the episode briefing. And normally I would maybe try and do some awful attempt at Hazer's accent, but it's actually a very valid point, so I'm not going to do that here. A new F1 team needs continuity. Sacking the TP halfway through your first season is mental. What were they expecting wins? And it's kind of the same opinion that I hold here. I think a good season for Kagalak is if they have scored one point. I think, they can pat themselves on the back and go, wow, we did a really good job to get one point in our first ever F1 season.

Well, it's a new era. And look how far ahead the top guys are. Points are slim pickings every single race. It's also, you've already mentioned how it was Andretti and then became Cadillac. This wasn't an easy journey to the grid for the team. Like this was, it was a bumpy road to get to this point. A legal minefield. Yeah. So, and you can say, well, Hasse, when they joined again about 10 years ago, it was a bit of a smooth

transition. They were scoring points almost straight away. They weren't entering the sport like Cadillac were. Like, Has had a lot more support. Cadillac are very much doing this from scratch. And it's far from perfect, but it's not like we're talking about them challenging the 107% ruling qualifying or anything like that. I'm surprised by this. We're all happy for them to be the slowest team at the start of the season. I think realistic, their goal, Sugar Bing, compete with the back end of the grid and try and take a step forward throughout the year as we go. It looks like they've looked at the way the car is performing on track with it falling apart and gone, well, how do we stop these D&Fs from happening?

Not that you would have scored points if the D&Fs weren't happening. And they brought in a really technically forward guy, an engineer in Bukowski, and got rid of Loudon, who, of course, is more of like a manager, a people person, a routine principle. So it's an interesting shift in the dynamic that they're going for. What do you make of Dan Taurus, again, CEO of the TWG Motors Group? Like, what do you make of his reasoning here in that he seems very open to say, I made this decision?

It's, I don't want to say it's refreshing, but you almost always see from these types of people that it's a bit mealy mouth and not really saying anything with these announcements. He's being very clear as to what's happened here. Yeah, he's also being very open, the fact that Formula One is a cutthroat sport. And actually, if you want the best, you've got to make the decisions there and then and get on with it. And I respect the direct nature, the upfront approach to how he's speaking. You're wearing a James Vowles T-shirt. We love James Vowles for his clarity, his openness, the way he approaches problems in Formula One. And that's actually why we had such high expectations for this era for Williams,

because I thought that he would be so direct and open about the issues internally. It hasn't happened. If Taurus is going to do the same thing, then fine. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the removal and the replacement into Bukkowski, I do understand where he's coming from. And actually, if he sees a problem and he can find a solution, I don't mind that as an attitude. And that will serve Kagalak well if they have someone at the helm who's willing to go.

This isn't working. And I can see that the problem isn't going to stop. So I'm going to cut it dry it and we're going to make a change. Fine. Just don't be too rushed with it. Or actually, you get like an astermarting situation. We end up going through team principles every six or nine months. So actually, no one gets to bed in their ecosystem or their culture

or the changes that are actually required to make it a success story. It does not happen overnight, as you mentioned earlier. I understand the logic here of thinking you need a different type of skill set to see you up the grid rather than one that just gets you to the grid in the first place. But I have two main issues with this. Firstly, it's a massive fumble in terms of the disorganisation of this. The fact that Budkowski hadn't visited the factory before this was announced. And Graham Loudon, again, has kind of just been called.

up out of the blue to say like, yeah, bye-bye, buddy, it's not happening anymore. Like, if this had been a cleaner transition, I would at least somewhat understand it. The other problem I have with this is Budkowski, I think, left Alpine, maybe 2021, 2022. So it's been a number of years. Maybe he had some gardening leave straight after that possibly, but that's been done for a long time. If you knew at that point, Graham Loudoun has the skill set to get us here, and we need someone else who's going to be more capable when we do get here. Put that in place then. You can bring the both thing, right?

Right. It's your company. It's Formula One. Make him chief of engineering and on track, you know, whatever it might be. You're going to call it. And then have Loudoun is your guy running the show, the top dog. Yeah, right. Both can work in simultaneous fashion.

You've got Zach Brown and Andre Estella doing a fantastic job of running the car development and then the business. And both work really well. It's a proven model. It's a World Championship winging model. Why couldn't they have employed that? Yeah. I don't understand why this wasn't just set up a little bit earlier on.

And yeah, I don't understand how this move has become both premeditated and unorganized. Like, it should be one or the other. And yet it's somehow both. Very confusing. The other thing that we can't really talk about, but maybe something to keep an eye on is that there are rumors of potential federal scrutiny when it comes to the TWG group as a whole. one of their other brands, the Los Angeles Lakers,

that Mark Walker is the CEO and chairman of TWG Global, bought the LA Lakers last year and has just sold it off, which looks interesting. But we can't really say much more than that right now. No, just keep your eyes on the news stories. There might be some conversations about ownership models and things like that. It's very interesting, not going to go into a legal case on the show while it's still being investigated.

Yeah, legal breaking, probably not making a debut just. No, no, no, no. Do you think Budkowski just is a straight-up upgrade based on the experience that he's got with all of these teams? No, I think he's a very separate and different individual, and that's why the model we just spoke about, I thought, was an obvious choice for Kagalak to make it. But Kowalski is a brilliant part of Formula One.

He's very well respected, years and years of experience. About 25 years, I think he did 2001. Right thing of McLaren, Ferrari, Renault slash Alpine, the FIA, he's worked on regulations as well. He is well respected and well loved around the Formula One paddock. He is a great pickup for someone like Haddalaik right at the back of the grid. If Ashton Martin announced that they got Bukkowski into help with their technology, under Adrian Nui, I go, brilliant.

That makes a lot of sakes. That's a really good pickup for them. Red Bull bringing Bukowski also would make a lot of sense. I would understand the direction that they're going. So great pickup from them. But as an overall team leader, it's the same as what I said about Nui when he went from Red Bull to Austin Martin. I respect his technical capability.

It is sensationally good. I don't know how good he's going to be as a business manager, a person manager, understanding the difficult conversations with driver relationships, contract management. I don't know what his skill set looks like there. But as a technical guy, brilliant. It's a great engineer. That's kind of the point, isn't it? In that you've gone from someone who you weren't sure had the skill set to take you forward

to someone who you aren't sure has the skill set to take you forward. Like whilst Budkowski has definitely got the CV to deserve an opportunity as a team principal, I guess technically fulfilled that role a little bit at Alpine, but not for very long. Like eight months if that. He's done far more outside of being a team principal, put it that way. But I get that his CV might, it may be in the same way that, not a great example, maybe Jonathan Wheatley deserved an opportunity after so many years at Red Bull to be a team principal somewhere else.

I get that. But you don't know what he's going to be like in the role. In the same way that the person that you've just got rid of, you weren't sure was going to be right for that role. I just, in that regard, I'm not sure what they're getting. The one thing that kind of like hang on their side is time. Yeah. And I don't know why they've rushed.

That's what I'm confused about. Yeah. I think maybe one other thing to keep an eye on, and you brought this up earlier, is that they're looking to bring in their own engine for 2029. I wouldn't be surprised if they push that back to whatever the new era is. Makes sense to bring it in with a brand new set of regs. They probably have stopped development until they're aware.

of what's going on with the 2030 situation. Yeah. I hope Budkowski, obviously wishing the best. I hope he's got a clear idea of his timeline and his expectations and how they align or don't align with Cadillacs because who's to say we're not in this spot again this time next year? After this move, who's to say that like Budkowski's going to get removed when they get to the midfield and it's like, well, we need someone

who's got proven experience of going from the midfield to the top? Right. who's to say. Okay, let's take our first break on this episode. On the other side, we've got chat around McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari and their potential upgrade plans for the rest of 2026. Welcome back, everyone. The chase of Mercedes, I guess, is the story of this second half of the season.

They're leading in both the drivers and the constructors' championships, heavy favorites in both of those. But you do have McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari, who have at different points this season, at least shown some promise. Claren obviously won the last race in Hungary, some podiums for Vastappen in there as well, and of course a win for both Ferrari drivers.

So if it would be a good time before we get into Dutch preview and review next week, what their respective plans might look like for the rest of this year, as some team's attention will start turning to 2027 instead. Should we start with Red Bull and something that, Lauren Meckes has said recently. And this is something we've maybe touched on, but not directly addressed

to this point on the podcast, which is Mecky's admitting that it's unlikely that Red Bull will keep up with the same intensity of upgrades for the rest of this season with a call imminent to start devoting more resources to 2027.

Do you think that's an understandable move if they go ahead with that? Very much so. And I was glad to hear this from Meckes. I thought they might end up being baited by the Max Verstappen unhappening a situation and I think that would lull them into a early competitive situation, which actually long term would cost them in the ability to maybe dominate the sport once again. Because of

the staff and putting up a rightfully frustrated situation of the car's not very good. I hate the new regulations. The rear wing has tried to throw me in the wall twice now what's going on with the car. I was really worried that Mechis was going to come out and say something like, like he did in 2025, actually, we're going to keep working on the current set of regulations. to really understand what's going wrong, what's right, culturally, systematically, what can we fix to make it better long term? That clearly didn't happen. I clearly didn't work because look where they found themselves.

They were the worst of the top four teams from last year in the opening five Grand Prix of this season. And yet I was worried that they were going to do the same again. They're not, which I'm really pleased about. Red Bull should be the first of the top four teams to essentially down tools for 2026, except that their power unit and their battery are pretty solid and go, right, right, we work on the chassis. we make the car as good as it can be, and we come back fighting in 2027. In your theory,

if you could give Bastapag a proper guarantee that the car will be a real step forward at the start of next season, you might be like to buy yourself some time. So I was really pleased to hear that Meckis was happy to go, we're going to stop now, we'll accept what we've got, we might get some podiums,

Hajar's fine, Bostappan's doing what Vestappan does. Can we win next year? That's kind of where my predictions for the 2027 grid lineup. That's where it stems from, in that I feel like the last gambit for Red Bull now to keep the stap and isn't necessarily keep pushing this year. It's, look, we are going to fully dedicate resources to next year to try and get you a car that is capable of fighting for a championship. I would very much understand

and agree with this approach. I would have questions if they went with the opposite. Because unless something absolutely crazy happens, P4 is a lock. Like for whoever of those top four teams decides to, maybe not Mercedes, but like, if McLaren Ferrari or Red Bull decided we're going to pack it into this year, yeah, they're not going to get caught by racing balls, Alpine, anyone else, right? So I think Red Bull being the furthest away right now in terms of performance, it makes the most sense for them to take this route. Certainly the memories of 2025 are still there where they had a decision to make. Do they keep chasing a championship for Max Verstappen? Or do they.

start to 100% dedicate resources to 2026. They opted for the former. I said at the time, and I haven't changed my opinion on this, I think it was the right decision. I was happy with them carrying on with that development of that time. They were closing off, weren't they? They were closing off. I'm kind of of the opinion that if you're going to be an F1

and you have a realistic chance at a championship, go for it. And based on who Vastappen is and the situation of McLaren at the time, it was kind of proven right. The Vostappan had a chance to win the title and Fabi Dhabi goes differently. He finishes what, two points away from the title? Two points away, exactly.

So I was fine with them making that call, but there is no denying that it would have hurt them to start this year. And it's why they needed to develop a lot early in the season. They had a substantial upgrade at Miami, which wasn't an upgrade to get them winning. That was a substantial upgrade to get them in the top few spots. because they were fighting in the midfield for a couple of races before that point. And then they had that sizable Austria upgrade, which gave Verstappen a chance at a win around that track.

But I think it's been a bit underwhelming overall that upgrade. Because it's so, I mean, apart from that one. Where is it come from? Where's the big moment? It hasn't taken that step after Austria. So obviously, the Stappen goes so well Austria anyway. That maybe is complemented the overall package. Yeah.

I do wonder whether how do you think that might affect Hajar as well if there's a little bit less pressure on race wins? I'm hoping that he will relax into the car and the seat the situation a little bit more

is such a high pressure role being the second driver to Max Verstappen at Red Bull very much his team and it had so much criticism coming up to so much fire this might be a situation or actually if Red Bull's setting the target

of every race finishing the top seven Try wants to be more than a couple of places behind Bostappan, keep qualifying in the top 10 like he had been. And it should be quite easy to do those things. These aren't big challenges. If he can just build that confidence in the regulations against the team, then actually it's a bit of a trial year for him. And he can kind of bed in without the sudden panic up.

If they were suddenly winning races and Bostappan is first, second, first second, and Hajar is fifth or sixth all the time, I start to turn to him of going, you're not really pulling your weight. But actually, if Bostaping is maybe on average third place, and Hadja's fifth or sixth. We're not complaining. I think that's perfectly fine for a second driver. Yeah, you've got bigger problems at that point, right?

So, yeah. I think you just carry on. Interestingly, let's move on to McLaren because it doesn't sound like they're going with that same strategy. I got a quote here from Andrea Stella about their approach for the rest of this year. We wanted to leave enough overhead in our budget prediction such that we were in condition to spend money on upgrading the car. My impression is that to stay consistently in this.

position at the front. We will have to keep upgrading the car and we will have to add probably another half a second to the car from now until the end of the season. This is our objective, honestly, because we don't want to give up on this season. So it sounds like not the same approach. They're at the other, the other end of things. Yeah, they've had the biggest crux to the fact that they just won a Grand Prix. And that tells you that the upgrades they are working on are working and there is something in this car. Equally a benefit from McLaren, which we didn't have last year where again, they pushed for a championship and were right to do so because they won both drivers and constructors, we're going into an evolution of the current regulations. We're not changing

to a whole new set of car spec like we dig from 2025 to 26, 26 to 27 is that step forward. So a lot of what you work on this year is going to be viable and usable in 27, whether it goes badly or it goes well. You can take that learning and you can apply it to the new car. I do think that they are right to go gung-ho. The engine is there, and they can overthrow Ferrari. I think if Ferrari get it wrong, and it's Ferrari, the chances are they might get it wrong. I do think they've got the line up to get it right, and I think they have every right to go. We just won a Grand Prix.

Zandvort is coming up. That's a very similar spec to Hungary. We maybe could go and win that Grand Prix, the likes of Qatar if it happens, Brazil. There's other tracks that I think could be ticking the boxes from McLaren that they could mount a lake challenge, especially if they can get over the DNF. issues that we've seen Mercedes power unit cars have. If they can have that reliability in Mercedes-Cung, there's a chance for a late pull, I think. They've been a bit more reliable than Mercedes as of late. They have. They started horribly. Yeah, yeah. But they, yeah, as of late,

they've been pretty good on that front after, as it Norris had a couple of issues around Monaco and Canada. But I think since then, it's been... Canada, I think was the last time me, a proper car failure. But I think they've just got too much to learn after coming off the backup championship firing. I think going all in actually allows. them to really benefit from a great power unit. A few chassis changes, they could be there. Yeah. I think the encouraging thing for McLaren fans out there

is that Hungary was only part one of this upgrade. Part two is coming at Zambor, and there might even be a little bit more after that as well. And if this second part at Zambor can have anywhere near the impact that the first part did in Hungary, that bodes really, really well. Because it's not like McLaren were a bit better at Hungary. they were very, very good, particularly in the hands of Lando Norris.

He was seconds and seconds clear of the field. And if Zamborpe may be a similar track, if that carries on and with an even better car again, they are in a pretty good position. I think it's maybe similar to Red Bull in that McLaren have acknowledged that their 2025 development has hurt them a little bit going into this season. doing their best to claim both championships, which they eventually did. They had a pretty slow start to the year, and I'm not talking just about the did not starts that they had in China and Australia.

I think maybe Astor Martin and Williams' issues masked what was going on at McLaren a little bit because they were struggling to make the first shakedown that we had. They didn't bring any upgrades at all between that shakedown and Australia. Most other teams did. It wasn't easy for them, and they don't want to get back in that position. But I think you're right. It's unlikely to be the same because we're not going through that major regulation change again. What I do worry about, and it's not just for McLaren, I guess, is Mercedes just baiting them because...

They've done it before. They've got history. They've got previous doing this. And they know what they're doing. There's a buffer right now of 159 points between McLaren and Mercedes. Now, you've got to remember, you can bring home 43 points from a standard Grand Prix weekend if you get a 1-2. that whilst that is a big gap, that 159 points, in theory, if they can rack up a couple of one-toos

and they'd be regularly on the podium with both drivers, it's not a gap that can't be closed, but the back end of that siege is got to be perfect for them. So that's a risk that maybe they shouldn't be willing to take, be interesting to see what they do. Could sway them as well in that we've got two more sprints to come this year, Zambor, obviously next time out, and then also Singapore, which I keep forgetting is a sprint for some way.

But in theory will also benefit their car. Exactly. So it's two circuits that might well, they might well go well at. So yeah. But yeah, I can't lie. I do worry a bit about Mercedes. Mercedes had that big upgrade at Canada and they've basically brought nothing since. So I reckon they'll do one more dump and that'll be it. There are chatters of they might have a major upgrade on the way, Mercedes, in which case. The perfect season for Mercedes is not winning both titles. It's winning both titles and having someone like McLaren pour everything into the same. season as well. Yeah, if they can win both titles by one point and then go, ha, we held back everything and we're going to drop it on the last race of the season, so we're good to go for 27. That's the perfect scenario. Bit of a bit of a visual reference here, folks, apologies.

If Red Bull are here on one end of the spectrum and McLaren are here at the other end of the spectrum, where do we find Ferrari? This is the worst thing you could have done on a podcast. You're just waving your hands in the area, saying, you're saying, the words here. Yes. I at least said end of spectrum on the end of spectrum. I know, I know. Ferrari, oh goodness me, Ferrari. Right. There are what, 70 points in it between them and Mercedes right now. They are the most reliable front runger of the top four. Their chassis is solid. The car looks drivable. Both Lewis, Hamilton, Charlotte Clare in great form. The breaking issues seem to have worked its way out.

So a lot of the bug bears in that car have been resolved. The problem with Ferrari right now is they're just not quite there anywhere at the moment. It's not like they seem to have one unique skill set that sets them apart from everyone. It's not like we go to a Monaco or a Hungary and they obliterate the competition. You go, wow, downforce on that Ferrari is spectacular. But we go to somewhere like a spa

and in the straight line sections, they're miles off. Or vice versa. They're not dominating in sector one of spa by a country mile, but they're really slow in sector two. And that worries me with Ferrari because I feel like Ferrari have too many six out of ten departments and don't know which one to go, oh, let's make that one a 10 out of 10.

Let's make that one a 10. And actually, they might make all of them just a six and a half out of 10, spend all of their budget doing it, get nowhere, figure second, and the cycle repeats. I think Ferrari have to go all in. And I think if they're going to go all in, they need to go all in on one thing. And that is the power unit,

because that will set them apart for the next three or four seasons, at least. That is the long-lasting ability. They've got the duo upgrade, of course, that they can still use, one, they've got another one to come. Should be Monza, maybe. You think so, and it will make sense to bring it to a straight line track like Monza

and a Home Grand Prix, of course. But to me, that's where they have to put all the resourcing, because that's where someone like Mercedes is really benefiting. That's where someone like Reg Bull, even, in a straight line is benefiting. You can work on the chassis over time. And we know they've got a good chassis going on. We know they're being innovative, the Macarena wing, the little exhaust vent that's been banned now for next season as well.

All these little things are coming from Ferrari. They're being innovative. but the engine needs raw power across the whole power band and they're struggling with it. So if they're going to go all in, and I think there's a fair chance they should, because 70 points with the reliability of Mercedes is not nothing. If they can actually guarantee proper steps forward in power, I think they should go for it. Our next bonus episode on Patreon sees us do a tier list of all of the 11 races that we've had so far. And one benefit of going through the sort of research of that and going back through each race

and remembering what's happened is that you get a good idea of a season picture for one team. And that definitely applies for Ferrari because there are so many instances where you can say, well, they had the lead there and then eventually finished third. They have the lead there and eventually finished second. And they were third and fourth there. And it is pretty consistent, but you're right in what you say. it never looks complete apart from, I think you could say, Barcelona and Lewis Hamilton when they just had the upgrade.

I know they won at Silverstone as well. Yeah, I don't think that was a wing if Antigelli's car is healthy the whole way through. That's why I'm not as confident on that one. I think regardless of which way they go with this, the middle ground is no good. If they kind of somewhat keep going with upgrades this year, but with one eye to next year, I don't love that strategy.

I think they should either do what you suggest, which is go for it, pour everything into the power unit, see if they can get Mercedes this year and finally win a championship for the first time in 20 years. Or they say, you know what? We're going to shut this down early.

We'll let McLaren try and chase down Mercedes this year and we're going to fully attack 2027. I don't mind which way they go with it, but I just don't think they should be in this middle ground where they don't pick either. I agree. It's got to be one or the other. And Ferrari are probably the ones that are easiest to almost, a bit like a child when you see a sweet shop.

Like, oh, I can see one sweets at the end there. Can I have it? If you wait, there might be 10 sweets. Oh, but I kind of want that. Oh, I've fallen over and I've had the sweet that was on the floor. It's not very nice, actually. It's got hair on it. But I got a sweet, I suppose.

Floor sweets. Yeah. Harry Ead loves floor sweets. That is absolute slander. He's going here to offend himself, isn't he? Is he just like going to dance? it like, kind of licking up,

under the floors and Sainsbury's under the aisles. Yeah, that White River plays cinema for sure. He loves them old picker mix

is it up wrong and things. Sorry, Harry. Final thing I just want, this is going to be really weird because it's a transition

to something much more serious. I just wanted to run through very quickly something else that is a bit of a factor heading into next season

when it comes to budget. And we've spoken about regulation changes. There's not as much going into next year as there was going into this year, but equally, there's still more going into next year than what was anticipated. So one of the things that is happening toward going into next year is that we're starting

to head back towards ICE power versus electric power. So it's not far off 50-50 at the moment. We're starting that journey to get back to sort of 60-40. And one of the ways in which that's being achieved is by the fuel flow rate increasing going into next year. So more fuel will be needed on an average race. Now, this leads to the teams with a bit of a dilemma because more fuel means you need a bigger fuel tank in theory. But teams wanted to carry their chassis over to next year to save money. So either they're going to keep doing that and run the risk of running out of fuel at certain

races, or they can use the extra cost cap allowment that the FIA have enabled, which is up to six million over the next sort of few years, it could be an interesting thing to see who uses that in what way, because that split into two, three million pockets almost, like the first three million can even be spent this year or next year, and the other three million can be spent either next year or 2028. So you might see a bit of a difference in strategy as to how you approach that. This is what I love about F1. That's a good bit of F1 when it comes to development. It's the whole, this team has done something completely different. And recently, the FIA, have been shutting down innovation.

Like I mentioned with the exhaust outlet, the Macarena win, there was conversations with Red Bull's failure that they might ban that entire innovation across the grid. And I love this about Formula One where a team rocks up and you go, what the heck is that thing? What is that doing on the car? I love seeing this. We've had great innovations in the past. The fan car, you know, you've got six wheels like a bloody interior. You've got all sorts of hydraulic suspension.

This is good. This is what I want. Now, some teams will take that money and go, we're going to make our fuel tanks bigger and actually they'll spend it or something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how Formula One works. Some will have a bigger fuel tank. I spend on Graham Loudoun's tickets, plane tickets, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Flying in business class for every once ago. But some will go and make a bigger fuel tank and a different chassis in time. It's going to be fascinating. And I hope we do see some real innovation between the teams.

Yeah, indeed. Let's take our next break on the other side. We've got some answers to your questions. I actually don't know what the questions are. So maybe I do. don't have answers. Welcome back, everyone. Fort Weird round out today's episode with a Q&A, which we bring back periodically once every few months or so. And honestly, the amount of responses we got to this was lovely. There were a lot of responses.

Well, there were a lot of responses. People want to know what we have to say on certain things. And that means a lot to us. I will say I'm disappointed in two of you on the form. because for the longest time, it looked like we were going to get exactly 69 responses to this, and then two people came along late to make it 71. I like to blame a lot of things on Harry Ead.

I bet that wasn't Harry Ead. Might have been, though. You never know with him. You never know. Anyway, we've got a lot of different questions. Some of them will cover us. Some of them will cover F1, and we've got a bit of a mix of those two.

Joyful. Let's start with an F1-related question, shall we, which is what is one thing that you hope to see from the second half of the season besides a wet race, lol? Well, that would be my answer, actually. We'll have been a wet Grand Prix. I really miss rain when it comes up.

I miss rain generally at the moment, but I miss rang in Formula One. What do I want to see? I want to see genuine competition up the front. I know it's a really obvious answer. The worst thing I think that can happen to Formula One is a whitewash of the same victories after summer break. If they win the next three,

and yeah. The seeds is gone, isn't it? And that would be a shame. And whilst fair play to your Mercedes, you've built an excellent product, the drivers, especially, and Zangeli are being brilliant. I want to see that back and forth

between all different teams. So the rise of the Stappan, McLaren getting involved, another Hamilton and McClure, it'll be great. If a Mercedes, you've gone to win it at the end, that's fine. I just want to see a bit of competition.

I've kind of got two separate answers to this. Firstly, just in terms of safety, I kind of hope that the FIAF1, the teams make sensible decisions about where we go and when. Like I know there's still a bit, but we're definitely going to Malaysia for the Bahrain Grand Prix, but there's, yeah, I know. But there's still some unknowns about Qatar and Abu Dhabi. And I just hope that those decisions are made quickly and teams aren't left in limbo with

two weeks to go, not knowing what's going to happen. Just I hope there are sensible decision made from the higher ups. In terms of on track, I'll go with the midfield being a bit closer to the front four teams. I'd like to see, I don't really care who it is, whether it's Aston Martin, whether it's Audi, whether it's racing balls. I'd like to see that gap closed up a little bit so that maybe even just in qualifying laps, errors are maybe punished a little bit more from the top teams. I'd like to eventually get back to where we were last year where the midfield, it was much, much closer from first to last. So whilst I would like to see a title fight continue as well, that's definitely up there. I also want to see the midfield a bit closer.

Qualifying in general, I would just like to see that be a lot more fun. I miss a really punchy qualifying. Next up, late breaking F1 team has a 2027 grid slot. What two, nice. I know, right? What two not on the current F1 grid drivers do you choose? There's a bonus question. What colors are your livery?

Well, I mean, we've got brand colors for a reason. we got to go with the green. It'd be very late breaking for us to go like purple. Yeah, we can't have purple and yellow. Yeah, we'll go green. No, we hate purple, don't we? We can't stand purple. No, no, no. Remember that

steak team that came about a little while ago? Yeah, yeah. We just do a much better version of that. What? It has paint. Yeah, genuine paint. It's all good. That would be the livery. All drivers would we go for that aren't on the grid right now? Hmm.

So I'm thinking here we go with a combination of experience and a rookie. Color me, surprised. Well, yeah, I feel like we take advantage of getting someone like Solov or camera up or an F2, F3 driver. It makes sense to go for some young buck that maybe could be a long-time racer for us. Who would you go for experience?

So this is what I'm more interested in, because you can have many a great rookie, but who are you bringing back? Nica Rosberg. He's young. younger than Alonzo. He's like Hamilton's age. He's not bringing a race car for a decade.

Yeah, but he's a world champion. Or Sebastian Vettel? Well, when you're picking my interests here? I would take either of those. Along it's like a Solov, I'd take quite happily. Also, I just want to see it. I mean, it's fantasy world, right? Yeah, why not?

Yeah, why not? Yeah, all right. Vettel and Solov as a duo. I mean, of all duos to exist, Vettel and Solov is so low down the list. And names would be great on Scrabble as well. True, yes. And that's what we're thinking about here.

We're winning a Scrabble championship. Any driver that has a surname with a V in it. John Eric Verme was in the mix as well. Bring him over. Yeah. Hopefully that answers your question. Next up, I've been saying for years that George Russell is overrated. Have we come far enough to agree on this?

Or am I totally off the mark? Kimmy is taking him to school. Oh, I think that's too far. I don't think he's overrated. I actually think Kimmy might be underrated. I think that's the conversation. I think he's progressed so much so quickly. Russell is still like an amazing season last year.

The last three seasons were amazing from him. It's okay that a driver struggles with a set of regulations. It would take him longer to bedding. And maybe he'll never amount to what he could have done if the ground effect era continued and the sake has got to grips with it. I don't think Russell is overrated. I think he's a very, very strong driver. Still pretty top six on the grid.

But Kimmy is very, very good. Better than I think any of us anticipating. I think just based on his career has gone since 2019, right? And I don't think we should overreact to half a season. Like, this is a guy who was more than a match and was arguably better than Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes. He destroyed Kimmy Antonelli last year in a different era of car. I want to give him time to see if 2027 goes a bit better for him or it might just not be a

fit right now. It could be as simple as that. I don't want to erase everything that's happened before this year just because of these dozen races. It'd be like saying the same for Daniel Ricardo. Yeah. You'd be like going, oh, he wasn't very good in after he was with Rengo, so he's probably not very good.

He was amazing, a Red Bull. He was one of the best drivers who've ever seen in Formula One for about six years, and then he wasn't great. So some people have their time, some don't. Let's give it a year or so to see where he sits. Up next, besides Pumpanickle and Spaghetti Dinner Ladies' Five Star Cuisine, what is your favourite or go-to meal? Oh. Oh, it's a great question. In the winter, I love sausage casserole.

You do love a saucy cass. I love a saucy cass. Sausage mash with onions in the gravy is incredible. Incredible. If we're going summer, tacos is where I'm at. Yeah, this man loves his tacos. I'm a taco fiend. It is true. You're not. You are a taco something else as well that we couldn't get printed on a t-shirt once upon a tour. That's a great t-shirt. I wore it the other day to eat tacos.

Yes. I love it. You got your taco t-shirt. My taco top. Hang on. Let me just change the top. We're eating tacos, you say. Off to my wardrobe.

I can't be a pizza. I'm going to go pizza number one. Love a paella as well, though. That would be up there. Paella? Paella. Payea. Great.

Would you like a seafood paella or like a chicken? or chorizo paella. I love a bit chorizo. Chiritho. I love a paella. Really good. So yeah, that'll be up there as well. I'll go with those two.

Also chicken nuggets. Oh, big up chicken nuts. Yeah. Next question. There's been a lot of talk about Qatar and Abu Dhabi potentially being cancelled because of the Iran war, but very little about Baku.

Given Azerbaijan borders Iran and part of Azerbaijan was hit by Iranian strikes, at least once during the war, is the Azerbaijan GP really considered safe to go ahead? Has F1 discussed the race being at risk? It's had a very good job of keeping things quiet, hasn't it? The old Backe Grand Prix, because it is famously not actually in Europe. No, no.

Well, if you listen to F1, you might think otherwise. It's the host of the European Grand Prix. Maybe that's why they think it's safe because it's apparently in Europe. Yeah, maybe so. Has its own war zone going on right now, and that's why we're not going to another country. But this isn't something that we've, at least I've heard about at all. this race being at risk at all. Arguably it should be.

It's definitely within kind of the splash zone, to put it politely. And I get that you should be, it's people's lives. We should be cautious. We should be careful and we should not put people at risk. And if there's another option,

I'd rather take that than put people at risk. Yeah, I think the reason why it's not is because there were those, again, those strikes back in, I think it was March and there haven't been any since in Azerbaijan. Jan. So I think that's the reason why. But yeah, it's an interesting one that hasn't even really been a discussion point to this point in the year. Yeah, interesting to see if it unfolds. In your opinion, where would you rank Liam Lawson's potential compared to the rest of the grid?

Me personally, I'd go around Beerman. Oh, that's punchy. I think Beirman sits above Lawson. But I think there will be a lot of people who got halfway through last season that were the him right down there with the likes of Lance stroll for that's it we're never going to see anything more from them they're on the grid till they're not on the grid anymore whatever i think lawson's just a bit of a slow burner i think he's a bit of a late bloomer you know when you get a growth spurt when you're the kid who's like you're in year 11 at school and you've got from being like four foot to like five foot nine you're like hey i'm the same height as everyone now it just took five

years longer um maybe that's lawson and i actually think that whilst you i don't think i'll ever be a Lecler and Norris, a Ben, and I think he's got to get a few Trenting Ellie. I think he could be a very regular, strong midfield driver, similar to like a ghastly, you know, like a really strong put-together driver

that teams maybe should keep an eye out for. I think the young drivers on the grid right now are pretty strong to the point where, and this is going to sound more savage than what it is, I think Lawson's potential is probably the lowest of any young driver in the sport. But it's not by a huge amount. And I don't think that means he can't have a successful career in F1.

I think he can. But right now I wouldn't put his potential above Limblud, Hadjar, Bortoletto, Bairman, Antonelli. I wouldn't put his potential above any of those personally. Yeah, Scroi, Norris, Leclair, Russell. All these people that are still actually only in their 20s. Oh, scary. Have so much time left in their career. We're going to be talking about them when we're in our 50s.

Yeah. And for the, Lindblad might be a surprise given. Lawson is currently beating Limbludd this year. Remember, Limblud is like... 11 races in 18 years old. Right. I think his potential is probably higher than Lawson's. But again, it's not by... It's not by a huge amount.

I think this year has proven he can be a very solid driver in F1 for years to come. Next question up. And this one always comes up in a Q&A. But we have new listeners joining us all the time, which we really massively appreciate. So it is still worth us at least spending a little bit of time on this, is how did you meet and how did the podcast get started? Ah, well, we've been friends for, well, but me and me met school.

We did. We weren't, I would say, mate, it's because we're in different years at school. We just crossed paths in the school council. We did. My first experience of Sam was during a school council meeting where we were discussing two different types of tree and which one should be planted at the school. And everyone had kind of agreed on one tree, apart from Sam, who was very adamant. It should be the other type of tree.

And let's just say it was for fun. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I like this guy. He's my type of guy in this one. Just doing it for the wind-up. I met Harry when I was nine years old when we played water polo together. And I didn't see him again until college where the three of us sat in our, well,

what was your first year, my second year in history class. Yeah. And that's where we kind of collectively discovered we all really liked Formula One and didn't have many people in our lives who also liked Formula One. So I think just for the first couple of years, we just enjoyed chatting about F1 and nothing else. And then we occasionally would go and play video games together, the F1 game, for example. And then it went into writing and streaming and now the podcast.

Yeah. We started properly making content in 2016. But yeah, the podcast didn't really properly happen until 2019. and then 700 episodes later, here we are. Cricy, thanks for listening, if you've done most of those. Yeah. I know there's at least a few of you out there that have done the vast majority of the podcast. So, wow, that's a real journey they've been on with us.

It is, but whether it be five or 500, thank you, appreciate it. Stick with us, massively, massively appreciate it. Yes, thank you very much indeed. next up your top 10 drivers of all time no particular order oh god a top 10 list off the top of my head i actually think the first like six five right yeah right it's yeah it's hamilton schumacker bestappen singer prost Fangio clerk and then you've got some options i think yeah so i i would have those seven obviously i'd then have jackie stewart same the eighth and then i think it's the last two that are the toughest to decide.

I would personally have louder in there. Yep. And then I think I would go Fitipaldi is the other one. Really? Yeah. And there are a lot of options there. That tank place is one that I will have to ponder. Alonzo and Vettel would definitely...

Well, exactly. I think Vettel gets a fair shout. Alongso is one of those. I think you could debate for eternity. But, you know, Vettel win that four-year gap was incredible. Yeah, really tricky. really, really tricky to know who you might want to put on that list. Maybe I'll leave the 10th I open for debate.

You'll just get Sir Bolber and Maldonado. Big up subalba is the ultimate champ. But not pick up Maldonardo. Don't go into Fantasyland, yeah. We'll do one more before we go to another break. If you could move any midfield driver to a top four team, who would you move? For me, I'd move Gassley to McLaren or Mercedes. I'd like to see my boy get picked up by a top team.

I think he more than deserves it. And actually gets overlooked regularly for someone who would be a real safe pair of hangs now, you know, proper experience, get the job done. So I agree with that shout. Currently I would take Berman. I'd love to see him fighting at the very top now with people who are around his part of his career. He's shown that he's got the talent. He had that P5 and Shyinger.

He had great results at the end of last year. I think he would be a real threat to some of the more established drivers at the front. Sorry, got to do it. Alonzo to Mercedes. I want to see it happen. Just for the drama. Yeah. As the Immortal Muse once said, time is running out, and it should be Fernando Alonzo.

Just for a year. Yeah, please. I did have a bit more of a thing about this. No, it's a lot. Sorry. Fair enough. Let's take a quick break on the other side. We've got some more answers to your questions.

Welcome back, everyone. one. We've saved this one for the last part because it is the biggest question that we got. Which driver is most likely to eat a keesh at any point during a Grand Prix weekend? Is it George Russell? It's obviously George Russell. He's not even a debate. He's got an emergency picnic ready to go. You know he does.

There has never been anyone more Marks and Spencers than George Russell. He loves picky bits. He does. He loves him. I bet he's got a little handpote with a gingham blanket ready to go. Pork pie, keesh, Scotch. check and you are sorted. There's no point carrying on with it.

It's George Russell and it's not close. They should make a new. You got Keish Lorraine. They should make a Keish Russell. Oh, what that tastes like? Tears. Definitely set that one up. Much more serious question now.

Can you help me with something that has baffled me for ages, please? Is it about something I know about or is it a random topic? I reckon this is within your realm. When people say the undercut is powerful here or the overcut is powerful here. What determines which is powerful at certain tracks and how powerful it is? If you can help me understand this, that would be great, thank you. That's a great question, actually. And I totally get, if you are a newcomer or maybe someone who's just getting into the strategy cycle of Formula One, while you might look at this and go, why does it not apply to

the same in the same way every single time, and why we're not all doing overcuts or all doing undercuts. There's a lot of factors to it. I'm sure you can jump in with some things that I forget. Certain tracks, for example, are certain lengths, you know, for example, SPAR. much longer than many others in comparison maybe to Austria, for example. Well, if you're on really worn tires and you're going wrong, they go really deep into this race, really long into this race, and someone goes, oh, I'm going to undercut you. I can't overtake you, so I'm going to undercut.

Why is that more beneficial? The lap is so long that you're time to use the fresh rubber on the fresh set of tires heated out of the tire blankets means you've got more grip and it means you've got more lap to make up the time. Whereas a track like Austria, for example, which has got what a minute in four, minute and five lap time, especially in qualifying. you have so little time in so few corners

that actually the advantage that you gain on fresh rubber is minimal and actually an overcut could work because the tyre wear can be so low. Therefore, the wear on the tire that you're wearing going longer on an overcut, for example, means that you don't fall into traffic. You don't wear those tyres too much. Actually, you've got the good rubber behind you

and you can keep running those ties. So it's very interesting how it can work to different tracks, then there might be another element that you could think of, but that to me is the initial impression of why an overcut or an undercut or an undercut might work. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Particularly in F1, the undercut is a lot more powerful than the overcut, ordinarily, because the only real factor that goes into an undercut or an overcut in F1 is tireware.

And you want to get off those tires onto brand new tires and be quicker as a result of that. In other forms of motorsport, including F1 in the past, there are other factors. So 20 years ago, overcuts were quite prevalent because we had refueling. And you wanted to be in a light car as often as you could. So if you could go a bit longer than your rivals and the tyres were still in good shape, you would have a very light car and be able to go quicker than those drivers that have just pitted. But obviously, that's not a factor in F1 anymore. And the other thing that you kind of referenced is the heat of the tires.

It's not just the wear. Because these tires are coming straight out of a tire blanket, they're already up to temperature. In other forms of motorsport, that doesn't happen. So you are getting cold tires on your car. So if you're the first to come into the pit, you have to spend a lap or two warming those tires up and therefore you can get an overcut done.

That's why overcuts aren't that common in F1 these days and tire wear is the thing that drives the undercut. The main reason to go for an overcut in Formula One isn't actually to execute an overcut, it's to have a safety car come out and it casts you essentially so you get a free pit stop. Indeed. Yeah, hopefully that answers your very, very good question.

Next one, Nala, how does Ben go about researching and deciding which questions and what are the answers for the end of episode games. It's a bit of a scattered approach in all honesty. So sometimes I'll have a topic in mind, like a team or a driver, and I'll try and create a question from that. A lot of the time it will just be there's a few F1 stats pages or I'll be on the Wikipedia page of a certain driver and I will just sort of scan the results looking for something that stands out or something that I think is interesting or maybe something that you wouldn't expect

to be true but is. And then I'll form the questions from there. So it depends on the game. Some games are a bit easier to put together. So if I've got a category in mind for a back and forth, that comes together quite simply. But if it's something like F1 order please, where I need four answers for each question that aren't overly difficult to the point where there's barely anything between them, but also not too easy to the point where they could get it straight away,

that's where it takes a little bit more time and maybe becomes a bit trickier. But it's a variety of sources. And yeah, usually we'll just come from, I've got an idea on my brain, and I'll kind of work it from there. We've done 76 years of history to look at. Is there any chance that you go, I can't think of anything new, I'm struggling with this one? Because surely there's only so many interesting things you could turn into a question.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think the benefit is that I'm sure this would have happened at least a couple of times where we've had so many games and so many episodes of the podcast. I've probably asked the same question two or three times over the course. Just reshape maybe an older one. Yeah, not knowingly, but I've probably done that. But yeah, there are times where I'll be sat at this desk going, I've got nothing for this.

Like, what on earth am I going to create this about? Yeah. Unfortunately, there are a lot of years of history in F1. You do a fab job, Ben. Thank you, mate. Next question. who would be on your podium of one-time world driver's champions? This is really interesting because we did Mount Rushmore's in our last episode,

and this one didn't make the cut, but it was on the short list of potential Mount Rushmore categories as one-time F-1 champions. So it's interesting that the questions come up here. Mine would be P3, Dr. Nigel Mansell, not the melted wax figure from the Grand Tour special. P2, the Dark Lord himself. Nico Brittany Rosberg, and P1, Kimmy, brackets, the old one.

Yeah, great shout, great shout. I'm trying to think now, because you've got a couple on there. I would definitely have Rosberg on my podium. I think I would have Jenny Schechter on there as well. I think deserves a mention. And then I'm torn on the last one. I think I'll also go Kimmy. I think that season that he won it was also pretty epic.

on that last race and the last section to taking off the two McLaren drivers was pretty pretty mega. I'm going to agree on the shout for Nigel Mansell. I'm going to have him. The amount of pole positions he had was very impressive and he could have easily won more than one. Had a couple of opportunities before he eventually won in the 1990s. I'm going to go Alan Jones here, which might be a rogue shout, but I always thought he was very quick at Williams, won the championship in 1980. And then the last one on my list would be Yock and Rint. the only posthumous world champion from 1970, but that season is iconic

and the fact that he won the championship without taking part in every race, tells you how dominant he was that season. So I'm going to go with those three. Great list. What has been your best discovery that you have had media-wise in the break, like TV, music, movies and all books?

Oh, well, like just generally. Yeah. Oh, blimey. I watched the odds of see. in iMacs the first time i've ever been to the how was that that was crazy that screen is bigger than my house and my neighbor's house put together it's so large um i really enjoyed it but was a great film it's my kind of thing proper like mythical ancient greece i love that stuff i find that very interesting yeah um i in terms of um sort of film and tv as as many will know i'm not a massive

film fan. I'll usually watch a TV show over a film. The annoying thing about this question is I've just been re-watching things over the last couple of months or so. So I'm currently going through 30 Rock again for the first time. I've never seen it. Really? Yeah. I've never seen it. Yeah, I watched this a long, long time ago, so just doing a re-watch of that. Yeah, but in terms of TV, I haven't really got anything. The second season of the four seasons on Netflix, actually. I love it. Four seasons. It was great.

Really enjoyed it. My kind of like light, easy humor. It's good. Yeah, yeah. I think Dangy is great in it as well. Stylish bugger as well. Yes. It looks fantastic all the time.

Tinger Faying it is fantastic as well. That's the theme, isn't it? Tina Faye, apparently. Yeah. Anything with Tina Faye in it I've watched over the last month. God, I love Tinga Faye. Yes. Next question.

We'll make this one the last one for today. What race have you watched? that has had you on the edge of your seat the most. Oh, bliming. Whatever? Yeah, I guess. I mean, 2020,

well, the last bit had me on the end of my seat the most. People forget that that race was rubbish up until about the last 15 laps, you know? Yeah. There was a bit of all right with Perez and Hamilton being back and forth. That was quite fun. Other than that, it was quite like,

oh, Hamilton's won this and it's game over. There are more edgy seat races from that year that aren't Abu Dhabi. Yeah. Like Brazil was mega. Yeah. It really underrated one was the French GP that year. That was a fascinating watch of whether Vastapman would catch Hamilton or not. Yeah, really fascinating.

Yeah, really fascinating. Saudi Arabia had me on the edge of my seat that year, not for good reasons because I was just absolutely fuming. Horrified. Yes. DRS chicken there. I mean, this is like when Vestappan and the break check and the suspected break check, I should say, not break check. Yeah, it was just frustrating race, but it was. I was on the edge of my seat.

If you want to go back and check out some of the ones that we have reviewed that we thought were great races, Patreon has a classic races perk that you can go and look at, the links in the description, and we've gone through loads of really big races across generations. So if you're new to Formula One, and you think, I wouldn't mind revisiting a few great classic Grand Prix. We break them all down, we talk about them. So can I have a look? Well, we've just reviewed 2018 Hockenheim, the German GP,

which could very well be on this list. Another one that we've reviewed was the year after that, 2019 German GP. That is definitely on the list. That was a thrilling one. Well, thank you very much for all of those questions. Really appreciate it. We're actually going to do a bonus episode.

We're recording directly after this, where we're going to do some more of those. question. So if you are on Patreon and you haven't had your question read out here today, it might well be that we read it out in terms of that Patreon episode, again, recording directly after this one. But in terms of main podcast episode, Sam, we're going to be back midweek for a preview. We're back, racing, happening, and we're there. Are you saying that? And we're going to be in Amsterdam. We're going to be in the Netherlands. I think we might be, yeah. Blimey. There is a meeting greet going on on the Thursday that week at a bar that shone got

been aimed because I shall not embarrass myself. But is the form in the description still? Oh, you know the forms in the description. Excellent. The Hall of Fame contender is up there. Is in the description. So if you are going to be going to the Dutch Grand Prix, you want to come along to have a beer, have a chat.

It's just going to be a bit of a laugh at a bar for a couple of hours just to hang out. Then do get in the form. Let's know how many of you are coming. We'd love to see if many of you as possible. Thanks to everyone that has already done it. If you did the first form, you still have to do this form. Just bear that in mind. It's really clear.

We've actually got a third form. Don't complicate it. There is not a third form. The return of the form is the real form. Follow us on social media, like, breaking F1. Join the Patreon, as we just mentioned. It massively supports the show and allows us to keep making the show better and better. I give back to you guys.

And then, of course, Discord is there. So thousands of people, Ben, you just seen a Discord quiz. How did it go? I went very well. A very competitive one as well. It was one that went down. to the wire. But I think a good time had by all. Yeah, very enjoyable. I love putting them together and just getting everyone together chatting in the Discord at the same time. I know there's obviously

always great chats that go on in the Discord, but different time zones mean, you know, but this is an opportunity for everyone to get together at the same time. I love doing that. It's a great family activity. Yeah. And Papa Ben has led the way on that. It's a great thing. So if you're getting and meet people who love Formula One, listen to the show, that's the place to go. Thank you for listening. We will be back midweek for that preview because racing is finally back at the weekend

and we can't wait to see it live. It's going to be amazing. We'll see you there. In the meantime, I'll be Samuel Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late.