The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Who are the winners and losers of the season so far? Perez to stay at Red Bull? | Episode 125

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

In this week's episode the boys discuss who they think are the winners and losers from the season so far, ask whether Perez will be at Red Bull in 2022, and play another round of F1 Back and Forth.Tweet us @LBrakingMake sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast. We are here after the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. We've got a week's break now until good old Paul Ricard or Paul Richard, as I'm sort of Sam will be calling it multiple times until that time. until that time.

My name is Ben Hocking, Harry E and Sam Sage are with me. I mean, we are only 10 days away, but how many times do you think you are going to call it the Paul Richard Mays before that points up? I like to think that Crystal Mays base their entire game show off of the Paul Richard racetrack, actually.

It is so confusing to get in, out, shake it all about for both staff, drivers, public, alike. I think there are still people stuck there. Maybe that's where Pasca Verlijn got lost and his career stopped. An unnecessary Pascal Verlime, burn, and we're not even a minute in.

It's a early zinger. It's Paul Richard and the straight is the Maltese straight, Sam. Mintral Strait? Alteeser straight, yes. The mixtral straight, I don't know which one it is. Yeah, I can confirm it's neither, but yeah, it's named after chocolate.

Yes, it is exactly named. after chocolate, the Kinderbueino Strait, as it's more commonly. I will be sponsored by that's great. I'm a big fan of that one. Fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, we've got a loaded show for you tonight, everyone. We'll be discussing the hottest rivalry in F1.

And note that isn't Max Verstappen versus Lewis Hamilton, but it is instead Toto Wall versus Christian Horder. We'll be discussing that a bit later on. Keeping with that Red Bull theme, we'll be discussing Sergio Perez. Of course, he is fresh off his first win of the season, in his first win for Red Bull. We'll be discussing what is his chances of staying at the team for 2022 and when Red Bull should make that decision

and F1 back and forth. Good news, it makes a comeback later on. But first of all, we're going to kick off with the winners and the losers from the first six races of the season. So, Sam, if you wouldn't mind kicking us off, it can be a driver, a team, something else entirely. Can you pick a winner from this season thus far? Me.

No. I'm always a winner, baby. A winner from the season so far. I think Lando Norris is an immediate standout as a winner from the season so far. He's the only driver to have score points in every single race. I think the young lad has really cemented. I'm not going to be walked away by Daniel Ricardo. Daniel Ricardo, who people respect endlessly,

is not going to come into this team, put his foot down, be that lead driver and have Lando learn from Daniel's, you know, accreditations previously at the like. of course, Renno and Red Bull. No, Lando is leading the way. Lando's proving himself is to be a team leader, as someone who can guide this team to strong results, someone who can get pogroms when needed.

Very much like Sergio Perez has been able to do previously with other teams. Lando is now doing that. He's elevating that car. He's taking that MIG field car and he's putting it as the best of the rest consistently. And I am really pleased to see Lando step up. And to kind of put the Koshka on Daniel a little bit, to show that, you know what?

You're not just going to come and walk all over. So I think Lando is a real winner it comes to these first six races of the seasons. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I mean, Lando Norris has done a tremendous job, really from the outset. If you remember the Bahrain Grand Prix, first of all, where he beat Daniel Ricardo by about 30 seconds. I mean, a follow-up question more focused on the Ricardo side of things

rather than the Norris side of things, Sam, but based on, you know, Carlos Sines has done pretty well from the off, who we're talking drivers in their new team, signs have done pretty well from the off. Perez had a breakthrough at the weekend, winning in Baku, You know, Vettel's had a couple of really good races now. Alonzo came alive at the end of Baku. He started to get concerned at all,

but Daniel Ricardo hasn't had this breakthrough that some of the new drivers have had. I'm not concerned. I'm not concerned. There's definitely, you know, I'm hoping that things are going to improve for him, but I'm not sat there going up. The Daniel Ricardo of old is gone.

We'll never see him triumph again. I think Daniel was comfortable going to get in his locker. I think the man is going to take a little bit of time. We saw the difference in that first season with Renault. that second season with Renault, the man came alive in that second year with Renault, such a good performance from him time after time after time. That first season was not good at all. Of course, was he beaten by Nico Holgerberg or just shyly beaten by him?

It was, you know, not too different there, whereas I feel like Danny Rick, he clearly needs a little bit of time. He clearly uses into things. I think he's going to be okay. Daniel has got the reputation, he's got the likability. He's also got things like the press factor, the fan factor, which brings a lot more to McLaren than just results on the track. yes, that's what you need.

But Daniel Rickega was able to bring a lot more to the situation. It's very marketable. I also do think you can deliver. I think you will start delivering soon. Give it a few more races. Continue to that amazing. I think you'll get there. I think the original point as well,

that Lando Norris has been one of the winners. That's tough to argue that one. Like you say, the only driver to the score points at every race this season. And more than often, it's been very, very good points that he's been able to secure. Harry, if you were going to pick a winner from the season so far, who or which team? What would you go for? I think it's been a fair few, but the one I'm going to go for is Ferrari,

because if you look at what position they were in in 2020 and, you know, also, we would just mention signs. He's probably the only new driver to a team that started before him pretty much straight away. they've had a tremendous start to the year, if you can, all things consider. Two pole positions, which if you said that at the end of 2020, I'd have told you to stop smoking whatever you're smoking. So, yeah, they're going to have for thriving me.

It's a remarkable turnaround. And they're not back to where they were in 2019, but I think, I don't think I expected them to be, I didn't expect, we know Charles, healthcare is a god qualifier, but I didn't expect them to have two poles by the end of round six. So, yeah, and that car has got genuine pace in it around some tracks so far.

So, yeah, I think they cannot be too displeased with the progress they've made. So I'm going to go with Fezzar. And it's nice to see the red cars near the top again. They're supposed to be there. Name a more iconic collection of things, then street circuits, Ferrari doing a fast early lap, and then one of the Ferraris being it causing a red flag so they get pole. Like, oh wait, they're going to hang it secure that pole position. an iconic trio, that is.

Do you know what I find brilliant is that Red Bull are close to Mercedes than they have ever been, arguably faster than Mercedes so far this season. There's definitely a case that can be put together for that. Yet Ferrari have got one more pole position than this year. That's just, that's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I have to say, I've got mixed feelings on whether I can call Ferrari a winner or not, because on the one hand, you're absolutely right in that the progress they've made is substantial. Signs are settled in better than any other new driver.

Leclair continues to be a god. You know, it's a great lineup, and they've done a really good job to recover from where they were. At the same time, I struggle to call a team that has such history and such, the amount of money that goes behind Ferrari, I still struggle to call them a winner when they're not first or second. what's your thoughts on that Sam? I think there are a winner if you were to simply take the forward from the last year. This is a great

recovery, especially with the controversy around the engine. And I think they have won massively where they drive a pairing. Sykes and the clerk could be a pairing for another decade. They have that ability in them. They've got the age behind them. They've got the talent. So I think they're building here which is really, really good for Ferrari.

If you were to look across their entire history, you know, all of Formula 1 in the past, you're right. Ferrari should win every single season. hands down with the resource they've got, the knowledge they've got, the history they've got, they should be dominating, but they're not. And you know what? Yeah, you can't base everything on 40, 50 years of results. That isn't how anything works, unfortunately. They're trying. They're coming back. They're improving. I really think this is an upwards trajectory. As it is for McLaren, the same for Ferrari. I think they're going very much in the right direction.

I'm hoping this thing transfers to the new regulations in the next couple of years. I'm going to put something else into the fray here as a winner. And I'm not actually going to go in the direction of a driver or a team at least for the moment. One of the things that has been discussed all year and is being implemented this year is sprint qualifying on Saturdays. And I'm going to put one of the winners as qualifying enthusiasts because qualifying sessions have been sensational this year. And those who don't think that there should be a change to qualifying, I am a part of that

group have been sitting there rather smugly as Saturday sessions have been brilliant all year. Even with like Baku and Monaco where there were red flags that, let's say, ruined the end of qualifying. Even so, both of those qualifying sessions were brilliant to watch. You remember Imola, Lando Norris nearly getting pole position, that was thrilling as well. We've had some brilliant Saturdays to this point. And I don't know. I think it's just making a point that actually, maybe qualifying isn't broken. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. It's all right as it is. I know. It is crazy. I don't know. I think qualifying sessions have been, have been great this year. I think a lot of it is due to knowing that there isn't two or three cars in contention for

first and third and it doesn't really matter about everything. You know, we've had Lando Norris and Charles Leclair and, you know, we've had like six or seven guys, like, within a couple of attempts of poll at one point. And we've had situations where, was it signs in, I can't remember what race it was now, Portugal or otherwise, where he was like half a second away from first place in Q2 and also didn't make Q3. I think that's helped a lot. But qualifying has been great this year for me. I'll tell you what the formula is on this. And it's because, Formula One, as it stands, works. Fancy that. A multi-million pound organisation working. The issue is actually the fact that the cars currently are designed to go up and pass and race each other.

Formula 2, you know, in terms of on-track action, works brilliantly. You just take smaller cars and put them into the Formula 1 model and you bring the competition a little closer. Qualifying is already incredible. It will continue to be incredible because it will be more incredible. So, yeah, I'm fully with you. I think that was a great shout. But qualifying currently is current in its current form. that absolutely stellar entertainment i have loved every second yeah and and like i say that's with two red flags at the end of bacu and monaco which could well i mean could you imagine imagine the end of that monaco session about the chau-laclacrash that would have been that would have been something with those purple sectors that the likes of vastappan and uh and bossas and signs were throwing in um another winner from you sam another winner from me

The thing is I had one in my mind. Oh, yeah, serious, I've remembered. To engage you a qualifying debate, Ben, which I was very agreeing of. It's old school tracks. All school tracks that haven't been on the calendar that we've now seen, again, last season, but also now this season reignited, the likes of Port and now the likes of Imola, proven that they can deliver a fantastic modern race, and we don't need to be going to the likes of Saudi Arabia or, you know, more recently

the South Korea, where tracks are, what feel like, lifeless, they feel soulless. They don't deliver exciting Fun Grand Prix with punishment for drivers when they make mistakes and differences in the track and personality. These tracks have delivered iconic racing moments already, and they've already been around the most recent era for two years. They've already created some of the best phrases that we sing for a long time. The fact that Science got into the league last year, Matt McLaren, around Porta now, incredible iconic moment in the hybrid era

absolutely loved it Porta wah Porto Mayo as Paul de Rester called it Porta Pesto Honestly I love them I think they're great

I want them more often And I think if the new formula works well And the cars are slightly smaller They can run closer together We should be going to these tracks More and more and more They work well They are classic iconic tracks for a reason

They deliver good racing And I think there's a real wing for those iconic F1 tracks that aren't looked upon two favour of being anymore. I don't really get why. I have to say, first of all, very brave of you to go against the might of Yiannam whilst Harry Yidd is on the call. You know, you're very, very brave in that respect. But I agree with your point. I mean, Imola was great. Portemau, I'm a big fan of Portemau. I'm all in support of that. I'd love for the Nuremberg ring to keep appearing. Obviously, that one seems a bit more unlikely compared to. some of the others that we're getting twice.

It might well be confirmed by the time people are listening to this, but I know Magello is stated for a race this year as well. That could happen. Istanbul, of course, last year. Again, that could happen this year later on. So, yeah, old school tracks. I think it has been a winner. Harry, have you got another winner?

My other winner is strategists who love a bold strategy because we've had a lot of them this year and they've worked most of the time. Yeah, we've spoken a lot about two stops and stuff and the opportunities and options that gives teams. But instead of a strategy is having to sit there and go, one stop's a one stop's a way to do a one stop. There's not a quickest way to do it.

We saw with Hamilton in Spain did a two stop won the race. We saw with Vetter in Baku, he went 300. days on a pair of soft tires, set of soft tires and KMP2. Hampton again in Bahrain, the first race of the season. That was an alternate strategy. So, yeah, it's been good to see the strategies having to, well, they weren't working before, but being able to do something else with their races and give us a bit more entertainment, because it's been great this year.

I've loved seeing some bold calls, and there's been a few bold calls. Hamilton in Spain was a bold call. no way about it so yeah love it and if there's one thing we love it's a bold cool check out these four eggs folks those on those on the who've ever seen these videos we love it we love a ball of it there's a lot of it there's a lot of it i'll finish off the the winners i guess with a fairly obvious one but max vastappan i would consider to be one of the winners of the season so far not only is he leading the championship, but he has hardly put a foot wrong through six races. If we're looking at the biggest

errors that Vostappen has made this year, you would probably say failing to get the overtake on Hamilton in Bahrain and maybe not getting Pola Imala. And again, that didn't really matter because he won the race anyway. But I think you're really having to nitpick if you're looking at bad things that have happened to Max Vastappen this year. And realistically, the only times where he, he hasn't won outside of the Bahrain incident was Spain, where the strategy, I don't think he was on the right strategy there, Portemau, where I just don't think they had the pace that weekend, and also Baku, of course, where he was set to win. So really, the consistency of Max Vestappen for me has been astounding to this point. And honestly, we've spoken about Lewis Hamilton a lot over the years

about how he's able to mop up championships based on his consistency. But at the moment, Vastappen is being more consistent than Hamilton is. Hamilton has made a few crucial errors, you know, the one in Baku stands out. But Imala, he was fairly fortunate not to go into the barrier there, and he was fairly fortunate to he was put in a position where he could fight back to second place. Monaco, he had a bad weekend.

So there are, this hasn't been a brilliant season so far from Hamilton's lofty standards, at least in my view. Whereas Vastappen has been so consistently brilliant. Yeah, I think he deserves a lot. of praise for the position that he's got himself in. Of course, this isn't the first time where Hamilton's been challenged like this early in the year, and Hamilton has accelerated away in the second half of the season, so there's still a long way to go, but at least till this point, this happens doing the job. All right, that's enough positive talking.

We've had enough of that. Let's get on to the losers because we can resonate more with these people. Harry, a loser of the season so far, you can't pick yourself for your predictions. I mean, I'm the top of that chart, you know, of the losers of this year, of just life in general. No. I'm going to go for Alexander Albon, which is a rogue choice I am aware. But I think after... Knock a man down, but he's not even in F1. Good God.

I love. I love. I love it. I do think about Bottas, but I thought Sam might have a go at that. So, anyway, no, I'm going to... I think of Albon, just because, and we'll get onto this topic, surely, I just think, where does he go in terms of his F-1 career now? Because if Perez continues to do the do in Red Bull, then he's not going to get back in that team.

And Al-Fatari have Ghazli, who is, you know, performing as well as he ever has done. And little Yuki-Fi-Sinoda, who they're not going to get rid of after the first year, because he's kind of what Al-Fatari are after. so unless he left the rebel program and tried to get in another way but I don't see that re-manifesting either to be honest so yeah I mean he must have watched sunday and just a little sob in the corner because I think his f-1 career is looking less and less likely now going forward having said that Danny kaffirat got back in he did have every job under the sun until he got back in janitor for torrosso but um that's an old OG joke there for anyone

who is listening, if anyone is listening to F-1. Well, that's very OG. Very OG joke. But yeah, so it could still happen, but I just think it's going to be tough. So I think, yeah, it's going to be tough for him to get back into F-1. His dream was always with formulary anyway,

so I'm sure he'll get to go back to where his heart belongs. He was supposed to be in a Nissan, and who knows? Probably might have won a bit more there, so... Why does Roy Gassangie drive the Nissan? because he's he's on the road to F1 He's on A road That's for sure

Yeah he had a He had a lot of the moniker Yeah Yeah Yeah I think that's fair I think what Alba needed Really was for either

Perez to have a disastrous season Gaslides have a disastrous season or Sonodas have a disastrous season You need one of those three to happen And really None of them are happening Gasly's continuing to perform very well. Perez has just won a race.

And Sonoda's had his issues, but I think he's probably the one that can get away with it at this point. And he has shown those bursts of pace, which should be enough to give him a second season. So it is tough on Alba. I'm with you. I'm struggling to see where he comes back into the fold, at least in a Red Bull.

Maybe it is elsewhere. Sam, biggest loser. That was a statement, not an invitation at all. That's why I immediately replied. I'm just aware that I am the biggest loser on the team and therefore in the world. Are we at the bottom of the loser pile then? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Lowest of losers is what Loll actually stands for, folks. I'm going to go for Pirelli. Now, I know that Porelli had a negative race in Baku, And I was actually thinking this before the racing back in any way. I was thinking that I think their reputation is not doing them too well at the moment. And this is mainly because they are constantly generating tires and choosing tires that don't really seem to fit creating an exciting race. Now, creating a compound which allows for multiple different strategies, high wear rates, but also low impacts if the tire were to blow out or to have a no blowout tire essentially that goes slowly away to lose is a longer pace.

It is achievable. We've seen it happen before. we think it happened with other sports, you don't get these freak moments that we did in Baku, and other sports very often at all. And it's happened three or four times now with Porelli since they've been in charge of the tire manufacturing. So I feel like Pirelli really need to work on a system that allow them to generate a tire that creates a lot of different stops, a lot of different momentum, a lot of different changes in strategy, quick, fast-paced changes right on the cusp of, you know, wing or losing, and not drivers going 10 laps less than what

their suggestion was only to have their life put at risk, or a really boring race, where amazingly, actually Spain was actually exciting because of the tie, but every other year, they're been in charge. It's being incredibly dull. So I do think Pirelli going into this new era of Formula One, I'm not saying they should leave the sport, I really do think to have a rethink, changing up, come up with something a little bit different that creates a different experience with both the racer and the spectator, because they really have the key to a fun race in their hands. They're so integral to an important and fun season. If they don't deliver on that aspect, it could become very dull very quickly. So I think currently they are sitting in the loser pile,

just like the late breaking boys. Glad to see you with us, Pirelli. Thanks for joining us here in the pile. I mean, I had, I've got two written down here, and I was fully expecting Sam to pick Valdry Votas. So I've got two written down. One of them is Valtry Votas. And now it's come to me and I've got the opportunity to speak about it. I can't do it. I can't do it to the man. He's got too much. I can't do it.

So I'm going to pick my other option, which is Alpine. Realistically, they have picked up a few points this year, but they have, in most instances, been scavenger points, really, in that they've picked up points where others have fallen by the wayside. And I really think that the Renault last year, at least in the second half of the season for me was the third quickest car. I think it had a minor edge on the on the racing point as it was then and the McLaren.

So naturally you would have thought they will want to continue that into this season and establish themselves again as either third in the pecking order or at least in a very close fourth in that fight for third. And they're not there. And especially when you bear in mind that Aston Martin are not in the same position that they were last, year they've dropped off the pace, which theoretically opens up the, opens up a bit for Alpine to walk through. And instead, they haven't been able to do that. And they've fallen back just as much as Ashton Martin have. And I don't know. It's just not happening for them. Whether they're too

focused on next year, whether they just haven't been able to develop the car well enough. I'm not quite sure. But yeah, they seem to, they seem to be on to something with Ricardo's late season form last year. and even though Ocon I think has done a really good job so far this year it's it's coming a bad car it's not as good as it should be oh I'll give you two words for Alpene's downfall and that is Cyril a beatable I can't say so many a beatball

a beatbox that man I think was turning things around and I think they had a steady man at the front of the helm and he's gone And I think that they threw away someone who was building something with some experience. And no explanation seems to really be given to the external parties. I just feel like I think he was quite emotionally upset when Daniel said he was leaving. So I feel like he thought he was building something for the long term. And then he got so much taking away from so quickly, Daniel leaving, lost his job.

He's got to get a tattoo at some point. We don't know if that's ever happening. You know, and I feel like that man, there's a reason why Ferrari and McClan have turned things around. You know, Thorey hung on to Bonotto. He's still going and it's working. And of course, McClellan and Zach Brown are building a culture there and long term consistently works. Christian Horner and Toto Wolf have also been around now a long time.

Throwing away a man that was showing improvements, I think is part of the reason why Al-Pi and how struggling. Maybe so. Maybe so. We'll move on to our second topic, which is that Vastappan v. Hamilton is very close in terms of the champion. They've had a number of close battles on track, but arguably the war of words has not been between those two. And actually, it's instead in between their respective team principles, Toto Wolf, of course, at Mercedes and Christian Horner at Red Bull. I'm not going to list everything that's been said since the beginning of the season because I would be here for the next hour.

But basically, you know, Christian Horner's told Toto Wolf to keep his mouth shut about flexi wings. And then Toto Wolfe's told Christian Horner, these are windbag. and then Christian Horn has said that Toto Wolf likes to talk rubbish about his team in public. It's a lot of back and forth. It's very difficult to keep up with. Sam, what's your thoughts on this whole saga between these two? Firstly, I've got massive respect for bringing back the Yingsalt windbag, not using nothing everyday language. And big up.

For me, that is the only positive point of this whole situation. I don't care for this. Like two old grannies getting confusing a supermarket and having each other's handbags, you know, for a go, it hit you with my handbag, I'll hit you with your handbag, all out of breath, it's all over nothing. It's proving nothing. These two individuals are the anchor. They're the leaders, they're the background men that run the show, right?

But you don't do your talking versus in press conferences. It's like a driver. A driver can't win a championship by having a go at something in a PR conference or a driver briefing. They have to do it on the track. Well, Toto, if you want to shut Christian up, get your pit crew to do better pit stops. You've had some problems with them recently. Get your pit crew to do strategies to start your better options more consistently because you've been lucky some and others and maybe get your second driver to be supporting your primary driver this season

because maybe your points all will be closer to Red Bulls. Christian, on the other hand, just shut up, man. You're the most smug man in Formula One and you've been nipping at the hills of Toto for seven years. and now finally you're up there and you're not humble about it in anyway you're not gracious, you're not just enjoying the fact that you're winging, you've immediately got to delve into this sad little man

who can't help but bite back and I don't like either side, I don't want either side, the fairer can shut up for like air, do you talking in the season with your drivers and your teams and the winner at the end of the season is the winner. They don't want to shut up and get on it for next season. I don't want to hear it. It does not interest me at all. I think it is very, very sad for two fully great.

own name in my opinion. I admire Lewis Hamilton's solution that he gave at the weekend, which was to get them both in a boxing ring. I would, honestly, box office, I would pay for that. I would fall over. I feel sorry for Christian, if that's the case. For like Toto, I might absolutely decimate Christian Hawley in a boxing ring. My money would be on Toto. Harry, what's your thoughts on this seemingly endless back and forth between them? I have a conversant, a piece. to Sam's and that is inject it

love it we don't have enough of it with Hamilton and Vestappen and I you know I think there's a there's Sam has a point I think there's I don't know if they're going

too childish with this now but I just love to see it love the competition I'm not saying it's not you know there's not a competition

rivalry between Hamilton and Vestappan but they are very kind to each other. Maybe if they run each other off the road at some point, it'll get worse. But yeah, just, just, at least, at least there's two people that are going to bring a bit of,

bring a bit of, it's like Fernando Alonzo. Bring a bit of spice back into the sport. Just love it. I don't want it to go, I don't want to go too much further because it will get, it will just get a bit boring. But, yeah, windbag, I mean, come on. Playground stuff. Love that.

Winbag is a fantastic insult. I think it is the best F1 insult since Nelson P.K. called Nigel Mansell a blockhead. That is... Yeah. I mean, that happened so long ago, like literally decades ago,

and I don't think I would ever find that. Yeah, cucumber is up there as well. Cucumber is an outsider. Legendary F1 insults. But Winb... I can be able to... appreciate windbag. It's a good effort. I agree that some of this is childish. I'm actually going to go in the direction of what Harry said here in that there's too much in the way of niceties in F1. So I am

happy to see, even if it's not two drivers competing and not being not necessarily unfriendly, but they're just, they're in rivalry and they're all right with that and they're okay that they aren't best of friends. And, you know, sport is based on rivalry. Sport is based on these moments. And, you know, it does, it complements, obviously, the excellent driving that we're seeing on track. And you couldn't have one.

You couldn't have that without that. But, yeah, I'm actually, as long as it doesn't get too childish, and it has threatened on occasion to get that way, I'm actually all right with, I'm actually all right with this. I will say though that Christian Horner's comment because the way I see it is that Christian Horner is literally

on this earth to stir the pot. It doesn't matter what pot it is, he's going to stir it. And he lives for the... We saw it with Netflix with... Welcome to the team Checo. He lives for the cameras and he lives for the drama, doesn't he? And the problem is,

I likened Toto Wolf to a really well-behaved dog until he sees a squirrel. and Christian Horner is that squirrel and he just can't help himself. He literally cannot help himself to like bite back and just get involved. I think otherwise, you know,

Toto wants to keep it on the straight and narrow. I think it's hilarious. But one thing I would say is about actually, Christian Horner saying that he doesn't, he doesn't, he didn't say he didn't agree with it. But Toto Wolf likes to roast his own team. Oh, you know, I'm not quite sure that's accurate, but he said that he doesn't like to do the same to his own team.

And to be honest, Christian, I've got to say one of the reasons Mercedes have been so good for so many years is the fact that they can look at themselves and look at their flaws and they're not afraid to look at a process and to improve it. And that's why they've stayed on top for so long. So really, I don't think that's a weakness of Mercedes and actually something that Christian Horton might want to consider for his own team. in terms of improvement. But yeah, inject it.

Inject the spice. Why not? Kill Christian Horner a squirrel. Well, I mean, he calls Cyril a squirrel, so I'm turning the favour. We'll move on and we're actually going to stay in the Red Bull family here because we're going to be talking Sergio Perez.

Of course, he's coming off his first Red Bull win at the weekend. And I'm sure many of you would have heard. this stat, I couldn't quite believe it, and then it kind of clicked that it's true, that he is the first driver in the hybrid era to win for two different teams, which is a great stat. But Sam, I'm out of interest. If you were to put a percentage on this, how likely do you think it is that Sergio Perez

will be with the team next year? I'm currently sitting at around 70%. People saw the back-year race is incredibly favourable. I am so happy that he won that race I think Perez you know he needs that it'll boost his season massively I'm a secret fan of Perez

I really do like him but I'm also not going to lie to myself about it being a perfect display and I know that Red Bull's team will analyse those moments as well we already heard the snide comments from Christian and we went too far in his pit box you know helmet

we'll back we'll give Perez a cuddle after the wing this week but at the moment that Perez qualifies in fifth when we're in France He'll have some horrible thing to say again, you know, come the end of qualifying in two weeks' time. That team is very back and forth. That team is very much flipping on form. So if Perez can maintain form, if Perez can carry on backing up Max,

if they can win a Constructors' Championship with the help of Perez, that massively helps his situation. But right now, it's about 70 to 75%, I feel like. What's really interesting for me is if they do keep Perez on board, I think this has huge repercussions for the... The Red Bull family. We've all discussed Albon. I don't think he gets back in the seat at all.

I think that's Albon gone essentially from Formula One. Pierre Gazley isn't going to want to be in that family for much longer. If he knows that he's going to move up to a Red Bull seat again, I don't think he wants to drive them anyway. Yuki's going over with clearly the next man in line. And there are certain young drivers in the Formula 2 area that are doing rather well this season while those being Yuri Vip, so I know obviously he's also a keen favourite for the Red Bull family.

So it's a tough. tough for the Red Bull family. If they don't get rid of Perez essentially in the next 12 months, who they might end up losing other key drivers who have essentially got a lot more time in the sport. But at the same time, currently,

Perez deserves to keep that seat, in my opinion. So that's why I think it's only 70 to 75%. But I'd love to see him in it again. I think currently he does deserve another season. Harry, if you were going to put a percentage on this, where are you going? I'm going to go a bit higher. I'm going to go for 85%.

I agree with Sam though that you know we can't just take Baku as the only reason why it hasn't been a fantastic year so far and we've said he's definitely shown glimpses throughout

but it's never strung together a full weekend you know and even Baku wasn't perfect again qualifying he should have been higher up arguably although Max wasn't impulsive you know

but yeah I think if Perez continues I don't say he's going to win every race from now on it but even if he continues that form where he's in that position in a race where it's Max versus Lewis and Sergio is there with them that's all Red Bull needs. If he starts becoming a headache, I think there's another issue in there. If he's become a headache for Max, I don't know what happens then, but yeah, I'm fairly

confident that he'll, he'll, they'll re-sign him. They've already kind of said they're not going to resign Gasly kind of publicly as well. We know how quickly it can change in Red Bull, but yeah, yeah, I don't see them bringing Gasly back to be honest and Albon. we've already talked about that. So, yeah, I think I'm fairly confident that's going to happen. And barring any disastrous rest of the year for Perez, I think he's in a pretty good position. And that is why I have also got 85% written down.

I'm fairly confident that this is going to happen as well. I think if you look at the other, yeah, if you look at the other drivers in this situation, and I'll echo what you said, Harry, that Baku shouldn't be the only reason for this, and it hasn't been a perfect season up until this point, a long way from it, but I think I'm basing this of Baku being a sign of things to come

over the next sort of 10 races or so, and I think he's going to get to grips to the car more than enough in order to beat out the competition here, because ultimately if you look at who the competition are, Yuki Sanoda, you know, it would be on brand for them to put him in the seat in his second year. at the same time you would hope at the 73rd time of asking, they'd have learned their lesson,

and they'll keep him in Formula 2. They'll keep him in Alpha Tauri, at least for one more year. I don't think he's going to be demoted. I don't think anyway. Yeah, I think they'll keep him in there for one more year. And Pierre Gasly, realistically, Pierre Gazley has been knocking it out of the park for nearly two years now. If he hasn't been able to convince them to this point that he should be in that seat,

what more can he do? Like, realistically, go and win another race? Like, what could he possibly do that he hasn't already done? He's done a great job since there. He's been consistently quick and consistently deliver great results. I don't think Red Bull will ever put him in that seat again, rightly or wrongly. I don't think it's going to happen. Alex Albin, I don't think they'll put him back in the seat.

I think if they were going to put him back into the program, they'd put him back into Alfatari for a year first. I don't think they're going to insert him back into Red Bull from having no seat this. season before. So realistically, those are your options. Unless you do promote someone from F2 straight away to Red Bull, which I know it sounds ridiculous, but it is Red Bull, so they might try and do it. Maybe they'll try and go straight from F3. Who knows? It weren't the right with stuff. But yeah, it's, I think this is going to happen. I've got this at 85%. I will say, though, let's just, and I'm not saying this should happen. I'm not saying this will happen, not by

a long shot, but I just want to put this out there and see what you think. Let's say that Gazley has no chance to get back in that seat. They don't want him there. Sonoda's not ready. They don't want him in there. Albin, they've decided they don't want him back in that seat. And Perez has a really bad rest of the season. This is a blip. He doesn't have a very good season at all. So they kind of don't really have a good option at all. Would this be the craziest thing in the world if that all that happened and Mercedes want George Russell in their seat. Red Bull taking Valtry Botas, considering... No, they'll take Russell.

Well, let's say Mercedes won Russell, and Valtry Bottas is a free agent. Valtry Bottas knows more about Mercedes than pretty much anyone else. Is there something there? I think they're more likely to take Russell. I think they'll want age. I think they'll swing away with... What is he can take him, Russell. Yeah.

I think they can take him. I think Red Bull, they've poaching off the saying he's, I think Red Bull have easily got the ability to poke something else away. I just, I've heard, I've heard rumors in the stratosphere that, you know, that is actually a weird option for Red Bull should things go wrong. And I think Russell might be growing a bit tired with the situation that he finds himself in. Did you imagine Russell waiting it out at Williams for so long? And then they turn around and be like, yeah, you can come in Mercedes now.

He's like, nah, bye. It goes off to Red Bull. Bye. Again, that botas theory, by the way, is very much, I don't think it's going to happen. But I was just thinking earlier, hang on a minute. He does know. There is a good driver in there, you know, undeniably. And he knows a lot about Mercedes.

That could be useful. Just bring him aboard for, like, the winter and then fire him. He just end up being, I just going to say he'll end up being another voucherie botas. He would. He'd end up just doing the same role again. But at Red Bull, I just think he doesn't want that in his life anymore. You're trying to claim that Valtry Botas would be another Valtry Botas? I can't argue with you, but... That's exactly what I'm claiming. Valtry 2.0, actual botas.

Big J journalism here at Lake Breaking. You can't beat it. Top-level analysis. Speaking of top-level analysis, let's move on to F1 back and forth, because that's a natural segue. F1 Back and forth It's F1 Back and forth It goes backwards

Then goes forth It's F1 Back and forth F1 F1 Back and forth So I'm sure If you've listened to the podcast

Before you'll know What's happening here But as we know We've got people Listening for the first time Watching for the first time If so welcome along I hope you're enjoying

F1 back and fourth is a game where Sam and Harry will go up against each other in a certain category that I will reveal in a moment. They have to go back and forth giving correct answers until one of them can't think of one or gives an incorrect answer. So, Sam, did you win last time? I can't, I can't remember. I won the last back and forth, but Harry won the last Alphabeti. The only alphabeti so far. King of the Alphabet will make a return. It will make a return.

Don't you worry. Today's category is winners of the Spanish Grand Prix as part of the F1 World Championship since 1976. Any winner. And there's 22 overall. So I will start with you, Sam. Can you give me a winner of the Spanish Grand Prix since 1976? Lewis Hamilton.

it's a good answer he's pulled it out of the bag well um harry um max vastappen max vastappen of course unbelievably the most recent winner after lewis hamilton back in 2016 um who sam who do you've got next uh michael schumacker yeah he did he did all right there didn't he yeah it was not too shabby harry um fernando alonzo Alonzo makes it four between you and yeah like I said

there's 22 so if you are playing along at home that's the number you're aiming for here who have you got next Sam Micahakinen Mika Hakenen

did very well there won three in a row I believe and should have won four in a row until he broke down on the last lap Harry The King

Pastor Maldonado Pastor Maldonado of course that famous win Sam, who's your next guess? Niko Rosberg? He did, only once, but Nika Rosberg did win the Spanish Grand Prix. Harry.

Everyone's favourite goat, Mark Weber. That is honestly brilliant. Honestly brilliant. If that has flown over anyone's heads, that's the Channel 4 F1 team in the UK doing highlights. Mark Weber sounding like a goat in response Lewis Hamilton going off the track on the rest of it. Alex Giggs, he commentates like horizontal and then stands up.

It's like a jack in a box. Go on, he's like, like an eyeing board and someone kicks the bottom of it and just throws him up in the air. It's like, and I'm excited. That is what he's like. And it works. It works. Sam, what have we got? everyone's actual favourite goat

Sebastian Betel Oh, Vettel against Weber, who's the goat? That's our next podcast topic, decided. It's a correct answer. Harry. Jensen Button. He did win in Spain, going along nicely here. Sam?

If he has, it's only once, I think. Felipe, baby. He did. He did win in Spain. Yes. Harry. Kimmy Reikman. He was a winner there a couple times, I think he won there twice. But yes, it's a correct answer. You're going along nicely here.

You've got 12 now, so you're over halfway there. You've only got another 10 to go. Unfortunately, this is probably where it gets a little bit more tricky for you. Sam. Ayrton Senna. Senna did win Spanish Grand Prix. Harry. Damon Hill.

Good old Dill. Yes, he did. He did win a Spanish Grand Prix. So we carry on again. Back to you, Sam. Everyone's favourite doctor, Nigel Mansell. That's very much a last episode reference. Yeah. Nigel Mansell, who is a doctor, not Jonathan Palmer. was not a doctor. It was Nigel Mansell.

He did actually win the Spanish Grand Prix, so well done. Harry, there's not many more to play with. You've got seven left here. Since 1976, just to... Blimey. Alan Frost? He did. He did win in Spain.

So it goes back to you, Sam. Pooh bags. No, I'm afraid not. Harry is the winner. you're a poo back. So a bit of a punt on this one. Harry King, number one fan club,

Jacques Villeneuve. He'll be devastated. You've taken that answer away from him, but Jack Villeneuve is a correct answer. Come on. Harry. Oh, yeah, my guy, sorry. I don't really know any more.

The only one I think I do know, but I feel like it's a technicality here because I think he got disqualified. But did James Hunt win the one in 1976? He did. He did win that race. And then got BQed, but then got reinstated. Reinstated, so he does count. Yes, that's a correct answer.

Good news. I'd like to apologise to everyone that I've told there are 22 answers. I didn't realize I've got Nigel Mansell written down twice. So there's 21 names to... Big doctor. Nigel's that good. I've written him down twice. Which means there are four to go. Sam, can you name them?

Or any of them. Oh, we're at the tricky end of things, folks. If you've gone ahead and been able to get any of the four already, then a hat off to you. Sorry, I've given the wrong number, three more. I'll cross him out now. I'll cross it, there we go, he's crossed out. Three more.

Dr. Nye, she's just in the mind. Mario Andretti. Yes, he did. Which means there are just two more. This is a very impressive run. Harry, have you got a guess in there? Yeah, I don't actually know anymore, so I'm going to go for Kecky Rosberg. It's a good guess.

It's not right, I'm afraid, which does give the win to Sam. You made it a long way through that list, I'm impressed, and 19 out of the 21. Sam, did you know any of the last two? I had an absolute pure guess on my final one. I've got one answer. I don't know who the final one is, if this is even correct, would be Jacques's better half,

Gilles, Billner. Yeah, do you remember the famous? Yeah. Gilles Bielnerv, yeah, he won the 81 Spanish Grand Prix, very famous race where he held off everyone in that god-awful Ferrari. Yeah, the only other one was Patrick Paget. Oh, I would never have got that. Yeah.

It might have been his only F1 win. I'm trying to think. No, he probably won. Who knows? Maybe one or two more, I'm sure. But yeah, good effort. Sam, you take the win. Love that.

I do love a bit of F1 back and forth. Everyone sing along to the theme tune. F1. Back and forth, it's F1. Back and forth, it goes backwards. Then goes forth, it's F1. Back and forth, F1. Yeah, I can hear them all singing.

The crowd goes wild for the number one hit. Yeah. So, I mean, that's where we'll leave this one. We'll be back in a week's time, of course, leading up to Paul Richard, if you wouldn't mind, Sam. Hearing us out of here. Folks, let us know what you thought of all the discussion topics. Will Perez keep that? So how did you do on her from back and forth?

It's always a bit fun, a bit silly, but we love it. We hope you love it too. And, of course, join us next week for Paul Richard, where we get lost in France, because no one knows where they're going around that crazy, crazy. place. In the meantime, I have been Samuel to say. I've been Ben Hawking. I mean, Patrick Chappiah. I didn't say it right.

I remember. Keep breaking late. Oh, bye-bye. Podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.