The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Who has the advantage heading into the final two races of the season - Verstappen or Hamilton? | Episode 163

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

With no race this weekend, the LB boys take a look at who they would rather be heading into the climax of the season, debate whether team orders should be dealt between senior and junior teams, and play 'Alon-so or Alon-no' (probably for the only time ever)JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very well welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage, Harry Ead and me, Ben Hocking. First time in a while where we haven't actually got a preview or a review podcast. It's a non-race week after the triple header we've. just had. So a momentary calm in the storm, but it is definitely going to be momentary. I mean, Sam, just to kick things off, you've been raving about pizza all day. So we're going

to get down to brass tacks. We're getting really important stuff straight away. Have you had your pizza? I have. It's Pizza Wednesdays, folks, and the famous day to have pizza. Everyone has it on, right? Yeah, yeah. I did have my pizza. It was Asda's Frozen pizza. It was rather nice. For that, oh, American friends, Asger is Walmart. Asger is owned by Walmart. It was, right, this and this, yeah. It was a deep pan with a tomato and cheese base,

and it had barbecue chicken pieces with bacon, and it had a cheese stuffed crust. Oh, really. Quite delightful. Yeah, lovely. Took 20 minutes in the oven. I would leave it a five-star review. I know, because I get it every single week.

Very good. Two pounds it costs. In American land, that's $2.40. $0.40. I'm sure they'll appreciate the conversion for something they literally cannot purchase. Thank you, Sam. Americans have pizza. Don't be pretty much.

Not that exact pizza. Should we move on from pizza? I mean, thank you for joining us this week, Harry. Nice of you to turn up. Oh, were you welcome. Oh, I forgot you. Yeah, you are part of. Well, I mean, to be fair, I was going to bring this up.

Everyone, you are all welcome because I missed the race and for now I don't know as I got a podium. So you're welcome. Last time I missed the race, Daniel Ricardo won. Every time you go, something weird on the podium. Something good happens when I don't want. Yeah. I mean, that says a lot about our lives, isn't it really. You don't know how it isn't around.

Good things happen. Did Charlotte Claire win? Did I get mobile prediction right? We did address this on the podcast. heard. And we said you were just out. Yeah. We're going to let you slide off. Yeah. Yeah. Now by the right to the last lap. Before we also going further, can we just give a big shout out to Uruguay?

Sure. Is there a reason? We are the fourth biggest sports podcast in Uruguay, which blows my mind. So, uh, Ola, Uruguay. Much love to you. Stop talking before you. The last. country on earth we haven't insulted. So stop talking before you do. I love them. Exactly. We'd be fine if

we didn't insult all the countries. I say I like that insinuation that we would be number one everywhere if we didn't insult everywhere. Yeah, I mean, Ben just insults the world. I go country by country and Harry doesn't know who he's talking about. It's how we work. Yeah, it's great. Well, it's good to have you back,

Harry, after your enforced sabbatical due to crimes against predictions, but it's good to have you back. and we will press on because we have got a lot to talk about even on a race, a non-race weekend. We're going to be talking about the move that Vastappan made at the weekend at the Qatar Grand Prix, specifically on Pierre Gasly, of course, Red Bull versus Alpha Tauri.

Few question marks about the legitimacy of that overtake, shall we say? So we've got a lot to discuss on that one. Carlos Sines, is he a top five driver? Our thoughts on that later on. And we're playing a brand new game called, and this is genuinely what I've decided on the title. Alonzo or Alon No? Wait till you hear the jingle.

Wait to you hear the jingle and trust me we'll actually go through what the segment is later on. Stick around for that. Yeah, because me and Sam don't even know what the... We literally don't know. No idea. Yep, you are in the dark as much as everyone else is but you're going to have to wait until we get there because first of all we're going to be discussing the championship fight

because with two rounds to go, it is still an unknown who will be the 2021 driver's champion. Max Verstappen holds a slender lead, eight points in it between him and Lewis Hamilton, but Lewis Hamilton has claimed the last two wins. So, Sam, kick off with you on this one. Which position would you rather be in? Max Verstappen with the lead,

or Lewis Hamilton, who has got a lot of momentum behind him after the last two races? There's a lot of conversation on the Twitter sphere in social media land, on, you know, the old published articles that are coming out, the social media land is the correct way to paraphrase any form of online area, folks, by the way.

And a lot of people are saying, you know, it seems to be very much the opposite side of the fan groups are saying the other team are skill in favour, right? Max Verstappan fans believe that it's all over for them. It's done. They'll never win again and the stabbing has lost it already

despite still being, what, eight points in front. And Lewis Hamilton fans are sitting there saying, we've never been to Saudi Arabia Max Mustafa one last time in Abu Dhabi and the power units now that the Mercedes is weakened a little bit are again very similar

so there's no guarantee that Lewis Hamilton walks away with this and I think both make fair points you know Max Westappan's fans are arguing that momentum is key and having that positive boy about you and wanting to really carry momentum through the last portion of the season I think it's fantastic

points and it's all very fair feedback equally I agree that you know Lewis Hamilton fans are sat there saying Well, we've never been to Saudi Arabia. We don't know the form. We've got no idea how good Masegas could be around there. They might be the second or third best car. Let's say McClare and do a Monza.

Right? Let's see that works. And then no longer at the top. That might happen. And again, with Abu Dhabi, Max Verstappen was the last person to win there. So if you're going to look at this entirely from a, where they sit in the championship and what's left,

I think Max Verstappen just, and I do mean just, because that's how close the points are, has got the advantage. She's still got the preferred position. Because in any championship fight, Why would you not want to be leading at any given time? Lewis Hamilton, if you gave him the flip of a coin now, you said, Lewis, you know, if it lands on Heggs,

you get to choose whether you swap places with Max and you get to be in the League of the Championship or you have to fight back with two races to go. What are you going to choose? I think any driver goes, well, I'll just take the League of the Championship, please. Because that makes a lot of sense, and you've also mitigating a lot of the variables immediately. Max Verstappen can, it would be terrible for him,

but he can almost mitigate a DNF, right? If Lewis Hamilton wings the race and Max gets a no-point scored moment, there's only 17 points in it. Okay, that's hard to overturn in one Grand Prix, but it is possible. If it goes the other way around, if Max Restappen, who has the eight-point lead and Hamilton has a DNF, championship is over as long as Mustafa finishes in the top two places. And let's remind ourselves, folks, when Gestappen has finished a race on the podium, he's only ever been in the top two places, and he's only finished the race once, not on the podium, which was hungry. and that was due to Bottas bowling, bawling him out the way.

So, you know, realistically, I think, I think, realistically, out of all the variables you could bring into account, the fact that you never know who's going to hit you, what track we're going to because it's a brand new one, what's going to happen in those areas, why would you want to be leading the championship? I think because of that sole reason, Max Verstappen has got the best position.

Currently, that could definitely change come the end of Saudi Arabia and Jeddah. let's just see if Mosegis are absolutely dominant as a lot of people are predicting and the Sages get a one too, Hamilton could theoretically lead going into Aberdabia and then it's a whole different story. But for now Max was stopping for me, I would say it's about 60% has the

better position in the championship. I think it's pretty fascinating that we've almost got a situation where it's almost like a race situation playing out itself in terms of a championship battle. What I mean when I say that is we get a lot of race situations where you're have the driver in the lead, obviously the position they want to be in, that's Max Verstappen

at the moment, and then you've got the driver in second place who's maybe on fresher tires or who has a quicker car, has a better strategy, whatever the reason might be, but they're hunting down the leader and you always have these race situations where you ask the question, would you rather be the guy in the lead protecting it, or would you rather have arguably the better, you know, the better machine at your disposal or, you know, the better strategy, better tires. it's almost like that sort of a situation is actually playing out outside of a race and actually on the championship as a whole. Max Verstappen is leading the way,

but Lewis Hamilton has all this momentum after the last two wins. And what's comforting for Lewis Hamilton is that he's won both of them in completely different ways. In Brazil, he was forced to come back through the field. It was a very dramatic victory in comparison to Qatar. But Qatari dominated. He was a fastest lap away, I think, from Grand Slam. So it's two completely different wins, which should give him quite a bit of confidence. I think this is a very rare situation, actually, where we're heading into the last couple of races in the season.

We've got two drivers going for the championship from two different teams, and they are probably both happy with the position they're in, relatively speaking. I think you're right, Sam, that if Lewis Hamilton had the choice between the two, maybe he would go for the other. But I don't think he's disappointed in the position that he's in right now. he's got a perfectly good car that has won the last two Grand Prix and he's eight points behind Vastappen with two to go. I don't think he's disappointed with where he is and of course Vestappen who hadn't led a championship prior to this season, at least in single-seater's,

I'm sure he would take the position he's in as well. So I think it's a very weird one, we're actually both of them are going to be quite content with where they are. In terms of which position I would rather have, would I have the points or would I take the momentum really, I agree with you, Sam. I think I would be in Vastappen's shoes right now over Lewis Hamilton's shoes. Just because, again, it's very similar to the reason you gave Sam,

in that I would rather deal in certainties rather than probabilities or possibilities. So what I mean when I say that is Max Vastappen has the championship lead. That is a fact, indisputable at this moment in time. Lewis Hamilton has had a better car for the last two races, and you might think it's either probable or possible that he has the best car for the last two races. But that's an unknown. That's not a certainty. We've seen how it has swung back and forth so many times this year. Who's to say that won't happen again? And Max Verstappen doesn't need it to happen for both races. All Max Verstappen needs is to win one of the two and he's got the advantage. Like you say, Sam, he is so consistent this year in terms of finishing first or second.

he can afford a second place. As long as he wins the other one, Hamilton is the one that needs really two race wins. I think Saudi Arabia will likely determine what the approach is, heading into Abu Dhabi, who wins that, who has the championship lead. But at the moment, Max Vostappan has a certain freedom, or he can afford to have a certain freedom about his style of racing, where Lewis Hamilton can't.

Lewis Hamilton cannot afford a crash if they go side by side. Max Verstappen can. I'm not saying that Max Verstappen would intentionally take Lewis Hamilton out in that scenario where they're fighting for the championship. But if they're side by side, there's no reason for Max Verstappen to cede the ground because if Lewis Hamilton wants to keep going and they have contact similar to Silverstone or similar to Monza, that benefits for Stappen. That doesn't benefit Lewis Hamilton.

So not only does he have the points lead, he has all the benefits that are attached to having a points lead just in the way that he can go out and race his own style without needing to worry about the consequences of a crash because he knows that that would hurt Hamilton more than it would hurt himself. What are your views, Harry? Would you rather take Vastappan's position right now or Hamilton's? Well, you two are a couple of thieves because you stole on all the points. This is what you get for not turning up, mate.

Yeah, lack of the queue. Yeah, I'm with you both. I'd rather be in Vastappen shoes at this point. I remember when Button was fighting for his, or maybe he's after he won the title, and people were asking him about, you know, you had such a big lead, were you worried? But that year he was being hunted down and he said it was like horrendous to be in those shoes. But that being said, I think Vastappen could probably take the pressure and as he has done all year because he's not led it the whole year.

Yeah, I would absolutely rather be in Vastappen shoes. and I think, like said, Ben, it's, he can be slightly more relaxed at Hamilton, you know, can be, especially going to Saudi Arabia, which is such an unknown and, quite frankly, having played a few laps on the F1 game, bloody terrifying. They, you know, they're so easily could be a crash and incident around that track. So, you know, I'd rather be in for stabping shoes with a, with a, with a, seven, eight point lead is he got? Can count your fingers?

Eight. Sam's holding up both hands. Yeah, I'd rather be in that position with an eight point lead, at least with the knowledge that if I, even if I crash out, and as you said, Sam, it's difficult, but I'm not going to lose a championship. It's going to be difficult going to the last round, but I'm still in with a shout rather than if I'm Lewis Hamilton and I crash out, it's game over.

So look, I agree with what you said, Ben. I think they'll both be kind of happy in the positions that they are, but it's been swinging back and forth so much this year, but who knows what would be after Saudi Arabia. But at the current point, I think I'd rather be madst of stuff. Looking at, because it's not the only championship that's up for grabs, obviously, the constructors championship is going to the wire just like the driver's championship is.

And that's even more of a slender mind. than the driver's championship. But looking at Perez and Bottas, neither of them are, of course, in contention for the driver's championship. But Sam, do you think that they still have room to influence the driver's championship? Funny enough, after the Qatar Grand Prix,

I tweeted on the late breaking account and folks you'll never know which one it is unless we get outed by one of the other two, which regularly have to stop you there, Sam. It's very clear when you tweet. It's very clear. I mean, I don't know why. Folks, go through our Twitter

and see if you can pinpoint a couple of the times where I've tweeted or where it's the other two. See if you can work it out. A little chatting for you. I'll give you a cookie if you manage it. One of the Ben's famous cookies. I did tweet after the Qatar Grand Prix

that Perez and Bottas could literally be the deciding factors in these Grand Prix. Again, as I mentioned in Jeddah, right? If Bottas is absolutely on it, let's say Bottas is leading the Grand Prix by an absolute moment. He has one of those weekends where he turns up

and he gets pole and he leaves the race, That means that Bottas won't win, by the way, if Bottas gets pulled and then leads the race after all the practice, he just won't win. But he will move out the way of Hamilton. We've seen that now, completely quite happily, with Brazil, for example, just gets out the way, no argument. I think Bottas is driving happy, driving free, and he's happy to do whatever the team need him to do.

But if Bottas then finishes in second place, he's able to hold off Max Verstappen, he has made Max Verstappen's job in the final Grand Prix incredibly difficult. And the same is on the flip side. Let's say, you know, Hamilton has a poor qualifying, or let's say there's a spin or a slow pit stop. And Hamilton comes up behind Perez once again. For example, we saw it in Turkey, right? Perez and Hamilton hang out an unreal fight,

and Perez ended up being able to keep Hamilton behind him. He did a spectacular job. If that happens again in just one of the next two Grand Prix, that could quite literally grant Maxwell staff in the title. And also it would go a long way to helping them obviously in the constructors, finishing above both drivers. I think these second drivers could not be more important in this final two Grand Prix. Even if one of them makes a mistake and, let's say, hits one of the Red Bull cars,

that could be so decisive going into the final race of the championship. So yeah, do not count them out. You've got to hope that Valtry Bottas is willing to play the team game and is fully switched on from the same is for his last few races. He doesn't really need to be unless he wants to make a bit of history. And I think Perez, I think Perez knows he needs to carry on proving himself. I think he's going to be more motivated than Bottas. A lot of people have been

picking up Gasly recently. Should Gazley be in that seat next season? Have they made a mistake with contracts? So I think Perez needs to have a great two final races to really get himself going into the new season. Beating Bottas, challenging Hamilton is a fantastic way to do that and that will just help the staff. And so yeah, they

are going to be a crucial element in the last few races. Harry, do you think that the role that Perez and Bottas could play, do you think is pivotal? I think it's pivotal for the constructors and I'm not saying they won't make an impact on the driver's championship but I think the only way they would is if it comes down to some fastest lap thievery which I feel uneasy if the championship

if we get to Abu Dhabi and somehow it's decided by Valtrey Bottas and Sergio Perez doing fastest laps on the last three laps of the race that might make you feel uneasy. It's making me feel pretty uneasy that there is a good chance that the sprint races will decide the championship this year and i am not okay with this oh dear um anyway so i think in terms of the driver's championship but that's where because and my point is on that i think now vespan and hamilton as we saw in katar i think uh they are in brazil and pretty much the rest of the year but especially towards these latter races they are operating on just another level

to everyone else. They are Formula 2.0 and everyone else is in Formula 1. Formula 2 exists already, you Muppet. You can't have got the wrong way with that, haven't you? You know what I mean. Formula 0.5. Yeah, that's the one. You're a formula 0.5, you're a moron.

Anyway. Thank you. I'll take it as a compliment. My point is, I don't think they're going to be anywhere near them in any races, in the remaining two races. But from a constructors point for you, they will be. pivotal and we saw in you know in Qatar how a

DNF or a you know a bad result for one of them brought Red Bull back into the game quite considerably now just one point is it behind so yeah in terms of constructors I think they're going to be vital all I can think about now is those two doing

fastest laps in Abbey Dhabi it'll be kind of fun though in a horrible horrible way disgusting way Twitter's going to explain that happens. It's like when you've had a bit of a bad night outright and you, on the way home, you walk past the 24-hour McDonald's, you're like, I could go and sit in there and have a big Mac on my own for a minute.

Like, it's dirty, and it feels a bit horrible, but there's a little bit of joy in there. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm very firmly between, like, on the one hand, that being utterly atrocious, and also that being the world's greatest movie script. It would be both. It would be both. Now you've said it, Harry.

I can't get that out of my mind, neither. I actually agree with you or Harry on this one in that I don't think for the Drivers' Championship Perez or Bottas will be able to keep up with Vastappan and Hamilton. We know that Vostappan and Hamilton are not just a step, probably about four steps ahead of Perez and Bottas. And that's not an insult to Perez and Bottas.

that's actually a compliment to Vostappan and Hamilton and how good they are. And not only that, they've elevated their performance even further from where they were at the beginning of the year. You rightfully brought up Turkey and how Perez and Hamilton battled there, but of the last six races, that's the only one where Hamilton and Vestappan haven't finished first and second in one order or the other. That's how consistently great they've both been as of late. I just think going into this last part of the year, like what you said, Harry, I don't think

Bottas and Perez will be able to keep up. Now, they don't necessarily need to keep up in order to be a part of the strategic calls, but you at least need to stay within a gap for that to be the case. And I just think at the moment, particularly, we've seen in the last few races, they haven't been able to keep up. And if you go outside that five second window, you get to 10 seconds, it's like, yeah, you would end up behind them, but actually we're seeing that those sorts of situations where overtakes can happen, they do become available when they're such a tyre difference that you're that far behind. So I don't think that they will have too much of an impact. Perez and Bottas are both perfectly competent drivers, don't get me wrong, but Hamilton and Mustafa, I think,

will take their game to another level even further. And outside of Harry's disastrous fastest lap can under him, which I'm glad he's mentioned actually now I'm thinking about it because it's not going to happen. But outside of that, I think it will be a pure pace battle between the top two, which I think is what it should be. I don't know. I have seen Mr Valtry Bottas, greatest driver of all time, practicing on Wii Sports Bowling over the last week or so.

So I reckon he's warming himself up for another go on the lanes. Or maybe, maybe. And that sort of situation could happen, but I think that could happen to any driver, not necessarily related to just Bottas and Perez, although Bottas might be the prime contender after Hungary. We did see what happened. I think we're being a bit mean to Bottas about Hungary, because he's not renowned for first corner incidents, is he?

Like, that was very much an exception. I think you've misspelled, mispronounced the word you were trying to say that. It's not mean with an N, it's meme with an M. is become a big of a meme from Hungary. You know, it's just a yoke, as a longso would say. Also, I think the person who is probably happiest about Bottas' bowling ball incident in Hungary was probably lunche roll, because he did one that was pretty much just as bad, but nobody talks about it because of what Bottas did.

He's probably loving life. It's like you threw a cricket ball down the laying here on a bowling ball. That's how they actually do bowling in Canada. It's just bowls. Oh dear. There you go, Canada. You were the first nation. No better on the end of it ever.

It's just someone chucking the road. Sorry, Canada. Really sorry. I'm so sorry to each other after it misses. We're moving on. We're moving on. Very quickly. We're going back to the Qatar Grand Prix at the weekend.

We know that Max Verstappen recovered to P2 after having his five-place grid penalty in qualifying. He made up a lot of those positions. on the first lap, but he still had a little bit of work to do after that point. He had to overtake Fernando Alonzo, but before he did that, he needed to overtake Pierre Gassley. As we know, Pierre Gassley, former Red Bull, and current driver for Alfa Tauri, the junior team of Red Bull. And there were a lot of questions, how would that situation go down? Pierre Gassley ran wide into the last corner, going up the start-finished straight, Max Verstapp and

managed to pull alongside and then get past as he went into turn one, leading to some people thinking that might have been a bit of an intentional move. Sam, do you think it was intentional? Pierre Gasley didn't make one mistake on track for the whole weekend. The only time he ever had a single problem was when his front wing came off due to the curb knocking it off, which is the line that a lot of drivers took. Pierre Gasley not once went wide on that corner for the entire race weekend or any of the practice sessions. Conveniently, he only runs wide there as Max Mustafa and is trying to charge through the field.

And at four laps beforehand, I believe Helmut Marco had a little whisper into Gazzley's ear and a radio message came over to him that said, Just remember Pierre, Max is not our fight. What a conveniently coding massage to receive over the radio whilst racing a Formula One car? I think he'd completely let him through. I think it was completely orchestrated.

And you know what, Pierre? It was quite brilliant also. The acting was top-notch, maybe a nomination coming your way, because you did it really quite well. Do I think that they should be allowed to do that kind of such thing? God no. I think that is appalling.

I don't care who your junior drivers are. I don't care who your supply engines do. I don't care if Toro Rosso and Alpha Tauri or whatever are all other versions of the name, Red Bull in other languages historically through time which is folks by the way if you look up the other stuff. The other stuff. I mean Alpha Tauri

is actually a space element that means Red Bull which is quite interesting. But nonetheless I don't want that. You're a team. Yes, you can put the Red Bull Junior drivers in that team and let them develop or have a place to race. That's fine. I don't mind that. You haven't

got four cars on the track that all race for Red Bull at that point in my opinion. It's the same with Mesegi Shagat's exactly the same with George Russell in the Williams or Ockong, who obviously used to be a member of their team, or Vessel and Stroll, of course, because Toto has partnership with Ascom Martin. They're a very strong link there as well.

I think that every single team should be completely independent of each other. I want to see them race. I want to see them get past each other. I love with someone like Gazley and Alonso find themselves a little bit out of the usual position or at the front. I want to see them fight for it at the front.

I want to see them challenge at the front. I know cars are faster. I know Max will probably get past. but I want to see a fight put up. I don't want a little... Oh, they're not our fight? No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want that.

I think messages like that should not be allowed. I think the likes of Helmut shouldn't be allowed to go and speak to his other junior drivers who aren't directly related to a team with those kind of messages. I think that's a bit out of order. And that is all teams, all drivers, not just Red Bull.

It's obviously more prominent in Red Bull, but the Ferrari with kind of maybe the Alpha or Haas and the same with Mercedes with the likes of Askin Martin and Williams. I'm just, and of course, McLaren. Not a fan of it. Don't like it. don't think it should be an addict.

But, Pierre Gassi, just fantastic. You'll get probably a Bafton nomination or something or a Golden Globe for Drive to Survive. Not quite possibly. So, I mean, follow a question to that, Sam. How do you stop it? How do you police it? Because I personally agree with everything you said there.

But how do you stop it? Because it is pretty difficult to determine when there is an intentional orchestrated move versus, because the radio message that came over was not strictly wrong. Max Vastappen was not their fight and he probably would have got past anyway. So how do you police orchestrated move versus not putting up the biggest fight in the world? I have a small brain and I am not known to be the smartest in the world. So you know what? Don't really have a proper answer for you. Other than contractually,

you still can't even guarantee that there is going to be complete separation of, you know, what they call it, politics and state or whatever? they call it? I don't know what the phrase is. Close enough. Yeah. You know, Loving... I don't know. No, I've told you I've had a small brain. Anyway, you know, nothing stops.

Pierre Gasley in the hotel at 11 o'clock at night while he's just getting himself tucked up ready for bed. A little... That's a knock on the door, if you can hear it. You know, helmet... Pierre, by the way, Max isn't your fight, by the way. How'd you police that? How'd you know that's happened? You don't. You've got no idea.

So it's really, really difficult for... for FIA, for the skewers, for the officials, to make sure that's being police and make sure it's official. But it needs to be made more aware of. And when you look at the analysis, and I think you do need to look at the analysis of, you know, the brake pedal, his steering input, acceleration, and compare that to all the other times that Pierre Gazzi's gone through that corner and you go, is it actually making any proper mistake? He just didn't turn in for that corner properly, where every single other time he has. That, I think, should be enough of a, we think you've given that up. So for me, I think I don't know.

there needs to be some kind of actual data input into it, analysis, understanding. But yeah, they've got to find some way of doing it, because I want completely individual 10 teams that can fight for themselves independently. And then at the end of the seasons, when contracts want to come around, have those discussions, do what you want to do. But for me, there needs to be some separation. Churching State! It's Churching State! I've remembered. Nicely done. Well done.

Oh, good. Harry, do you think it was orchestrated like Sam thinks? And if so, have you got similar views on whether it should be allowed, not allowed? I agree with what Sam said in terms of Pierre Gassel was acting phenomenally well. I mean, Felipe Massa must be looking at him going, ah, she's done that instead. Shouldn't it just slow down? That's how you do it.

So, yeah, I, so, yeah, I agree. He probably did let him pass and didn't want to be seen to be just giving out the place. So did a little run wide. And there are many, you know, not all circuits would that work? Imala probably wouldn't work very well or Monaco, for instance. So, you know, they were lucky in that respect. In terms of, I don't agree with it. But my, I want to see every, you know, driver and team fighting for themselves.

and not, you know, being ordered around by their big brothers, so to speak. But I think, I don't know, I don't see it as a... When Sam was going on, talking about, you know, they've got to look at data and stuff. I was thinking it's not enough of an issue for me personally to have to then go into, like, looking at Pierre Gazdi's breaking for that corner versus the rest of the race. I think because it's happened, it's like team orders, it's like impossible to be. police. I mean, when I say team orders, I mean, within each other's teams, it's such a hard thing to police as to whether, you know, it's a coded message or, you know, when we couldn't

have team orders, i.e. Ferrari 2010 at Hockenheim and there was uproar, but like, it's so hard to stop it and it's been happening in F1 for years. So I think, um, from my point of view, I don't see enough of an issue with it. I guess if it starts deciding championships, like, fastest laps might do, then maybe I have more of an issue. Stop. I'm saying it. I'm just projecting because if I keep saying it, it's not going to happen. But yeah, I think I don't have enough of an issue with it for it to be banned because I don't think you can do it. I think it's, as I said, I think it's like team orders within teams.

It's just too difficult to police. Because as you said, Sam, what's to stop? You know, 97 Horeth when, you know, my favourite driver... I'm surprised you brought that one up. Yeah, I know, but when my favourite driver was about to win his championship, they went down the pit lane to, or they had a previous agreement with McLaren to let me cackan and win. Like, your favourite driver did win the championship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway. Yeah, big shack.

Big, shack! Oh! Yes! That's why he was on the podium. Woke Shamp, 97. Anyway, my point is, it's been happening for years, and I think it's just too difficult to police, so I'm just like, yeah, whatever.

It doesn't happen that often. I get why it's happened. I don't like it that much, but it doesn't. If it was a Mercedes and a Williams, you know, it's George Russell getting out of the way of Hamilton. Again, I get it. I don't really like it, but I get it.

Maybe I don't care. Maybe that's my problem. Yeah, I don't. argue that's the case. Just to clarify for anyone new to the sport, just to clarify on this, Shaquille O'Neal did not win the 1997 for the one world championship.

Just to, you know, very much get that one out there. But back to the issue at hand. Back to the issue at hand, which is not Shaquille O'Neal winning the 97 championship, and that is Ghazley. This was intentional. So Pierre Gat...

Harry's going to spit out his drink, sorry. Unfortunately, he didn't have to see that, ladies and jents. Pierre Gassley, that's what we were talking about. Pierre Gassley. I actually think, and this is going to sound really weird, I don't think him going off track is relevant at all, and I don't think the radio message he received

is relevant either. Sounds really weird, but I'll tell you why, because a third thing supersedes both of them. He didn't put his DRS on down the straight. I'm sorry, that's the most obvious one of the lot. Why would you not put DRS on when it was active for him? He had the DRS, he chose not to put it on. Well, actually, that's a slightly lie. He didn't put it on until Max Verstappen was literally just going past him. He then put it on. for like two seconds and then it was the end of the straight. That is the most obvious sign

that this was orchestrated. I agree with you. I think he ran wide intentionally but actually I wouldn't be that surprised if it was a genuine mistake because actually the DRS just confirms that that was orchestrated. That was done and busted.

So orchestrated, yes or no? Yes, definitely. Should it be allowed? No, it definitely should. shouldn't be. Formula One is a championship that consists of 10 teams, 10 independent constructors. So I know, and for the record, this isn't just a dig at Alphatarium Red Bull because it does happen with Mercedes power unit customer teams. It happens with Ferrari ones. But these constructors need to be independent. That's what the sport is. And the million dollar question, as I asked Sam,

is what do you do about it? If you know that it's something you don't want, but what can you do about it? It is really difficult how you police this. You've already given a couple of instances where, yeah, you can't police it 24. You can't have wires on someone 24-7 to make sure that they're not sneaking out of hotel rooms.

Hey, Pierre, do this tomorrow. You can't police against that. So what do you do instead? I actually think, and you brought up Team orders, Harry, I was going to bring it up if you didn't. Deterance, they don't work because teams are clever enough that they'll find ways to get around the rules. They'll find a way.

So what do you do? Rather than deter them, how do you approach it? I think the alternate approach is take away situations where it makes sense to do it. And there's no easy way to do that. But actually, there are already a couple of things that are going on in Formula One that are leading us to that sort of a solution. Firstly, would Gassley have been willing to give up that position if he was in a championship fight with Max Verstappen

or if he knew his car was capable of battling Max Verstappen, would he have done the same thing? Maybe not. That's what the budget cap is there for, right? The budget cap is bringing the field together, making it more even from top to bottom. Should mean that there are fewer situations where you've got a car behind you and you know, it's not going to happen against them, is it?

They're too quick for us. It's easier for us to just let them go first time around and not waste time battling them. If you take away those sorts of situations, suddenly that gets better and you get less of what we saw at the weekend. The second side of things, and I don't think this is, I don't think the perfect solution is doable, but I'm sure a better solution is possible. 10 teams with 10 engine manufacturers and you don't get anywhere near as many situations as we get right now. Now, I don't think 10 teams, 10 manufacturers is doable. But is 10 teams 7 manufacturers doable in a few years' time? Maybe it is.

Even if you reduced it, because at the moment it's 4, if you increase that number up and suddenly you're taking away somewhat these junior teams, then suddenly the collusion just isn't there to begin with. So actually, rather than dealing with how they are dealing with the situations, take away the situations making sense in the first place and I think that's a better way to not necessarily police it but just nip it in the bud but appreciate it's a really difficult question because if there was a really easy solution it would already exist

got straight facts from the mouth of Benhawk in there spitting them then facts spitting a mouth what I do glad I can only see you through a camera because I wouldn't want to be on the end of that spit fest honestly my laptop right now drenched What's it, dread to pin? Facts. Always.

Grim, pure facts. Well, folks, it's coming up to that lovely Christmas period, and our good friend's beer 52, they've got back in touch. Clearly, everyone that listened did such a good job, they went, we want those guys again, so again, thank you. But, folks, I'd love you to answer the question.

What is better than eight, free beers? Nine free beers. I don't know. mate what is better than eight free beers well then was closed with nine it's a good shout but actually you know what it's ten that's right ten the festive season is upon us

and in the spirit of giving and charity beer fifty two are offering listeners that's right you lot filling your ear rolls with this stuff every week that we talk about ten free beers oh beautiful beautifully done and all you have to do

is go to www. Beer52.com slash late. If you cover the £5.95 for postage, you can claim your free case. And if you do it before the 17th of December, so plenty of time, you can claim two free extra beers, as Sam so beautifully said. Beer 52, just to say a bit about them. They're a beer club like no other. So much like the Formula One Circus,

they're all around the globe trying to find the best beer available anywhere on earth. And each month, their members receive a brand new case. usually from a different part of the world. So 40 different countries across five continents available for you. So if you grab this in time for Christmas, you can impress friends, family, dinner guests with a cast of Hoppy IPAs, crisp craft lagers and sumptuous stouts.

Oh, that sounds good, doesn't it? And if dark beer is not your thing, simply choose the white option instead. Look, it doesn't even end there, folks, because as well as some delicious beer, you'll receive ferment, or maybe it's ferment, Because we had a conversation about this beforehand and we're undecided,

but the Femmint magazine, which delves into the beers, breweries and theme. You also get two delicious snacks to wash down with the beer. What is not to love? Snacks and beer? Literally nothing not to love. After redeeming your first case, you'll join the monthly beer club, which is £24 per month. No minimum commitment, and you can pause or cancel at literally any time. you know what they say folks

snacks of beer bring the Christmas cheer with beer 52 oh Sam that is beautiful that wasn't even sent over I've just made that up you can thank me later beer 52 bye

let's be on to let's be on to Carlos Sines not that man let's move on to Carlos Sites he has had I think is unfair to say a good first season at Ferrari

he's been there with Carlos been there with Charlotte Claire in terms of the points It's been pretty close between the two of them. Question for you, Harry. Is Carlos Sines a top five driver in Formula One? Oh, bloody hell. I don't know.

He's got thought about it before, and folks. Vintage. Vintage. No, it's a real trick one because I think, you know, science has surprised a lot of people this year, and whether that's right or wrong, I think it's indicative of his sort of maybe slightly up and down career, not necessarily of his own doing,

but it's been slightly up and down, because he's moved teams quite a few times. And, you know, Charles Leclair is rated right up there with Max Verstappen, and, you know, as we all know, or you might know, folks, Max Verstappen is fighting for a world championship. But at the moment, Carlos signs he's beating Charlotte Clare, so on that basis, is he as good as Max Verstappen? it's a really tricky one

I think the thing for me for signs is he sometimes just lacks the tiniest bit of consistency and I think maybe it's something he's tuning out but we've seen it a couple of times this year I think Baku is one that springs to mind he was in a pretty good position

and he locked up and went down the escape road you know and I think I don't want to downplay his performance against Lecler but Leclair maybe at some point this year could have should have scored some more points, whether that's down to him being his fault or not. But, you know, I think there's an argument for saying that Leclair is, it should be ahead.

So, yeah, it's such a tricky one. I would say no, he's not a top five at the moment, but he's knocking on the door. He's out there, like helmet, knocking on the door of the top five. I feel back, because I feel like everyone's knocking Carlos Hines. Well, not everyone's knocking him, but no one's giving him enough cred. And he deserves a lot of credit for what he's doing this year. But I just feel like I need to see a bit more. Which seems ridiculous, he's been around for ages.

I don't know. Maybe if he beats Lecler again next year and this year. Maybe I'll say top five. But at the moment, he's knocking on the door, just outside. Can you guess what my follow-up question is going to be to you, Harry? Yes, I don't have a number. Sort off. I was just going to ask who is in your

I wasn't actually going to say that I was going to ask who is in your top five currently Nikita Mazepin sure yeah nice yeah Grojan

Grojan no Top five who is Hamilton Max for Stappan controversial two very controversial ones yeah

I'll put God for Claire in there I'm going to put um oh I'm gonna put is it going to prove himself wrong Fernando a long thing no I'm not going to prove myself wrong

and then I'm going to put um Landa Norris very interesting very interesting indeed so signs the top five driver signs is a top

six driver and he's a top six driver by about 3% I think not the question He's actually second Like the number six No, he's in sixth place

By a couple of percent In my mind currently And a lot of that is due to how he seems To pick himself up in the latter stages Of his time at teams And I actually wonder if he's going to carry on With his progression Next year with Ferrari

You know, he's already taking it to LeClaher His first season of Ferrari He did incredibly well at McLaren and he was starting to get there at Renaud and then obviously he jumped. And he wasn't too far off, obviously certain teammates in the Toro or so either. So who do I think is in front of Carlos Sites? Lewis Hamilton, Max Verstappen, Landau-Norris, George Russell, and then in fifth place, Charlerc, by about 2-3%.

And that's only because I think that where they've acclimatize and how much affinity Charlotte-Clair has with that Ferrari team. And yes, I agree with what Harry said. I do think the club probably should have picked up a few points here and there that due to DNFs haven't gone his way will be slightly further ahead in the driver's battle. Not by a lot though, and I think Science has been absolutely spectacular this season. I think we'll really challenge for the top spot of Ferrari next season.

He's just sixth, and I think just behind Science is gazling Alonso at the moment. But yeah, for me, he is definitely knocking on the door. I think something else you also need to remember, and if we're comparing him to the young, youngsters of the sport, Landon Norris, George Russell, Charler LeClaire, Pierre Gassley. Sykes is 27, right? He's a few years on from the rest of those youngsters that we talk about.

And 27, by the way, folks, is not old. I'm 27 in March, okay? It's a perfectly acceptable time to be 27. You achieve great things. But, but when Landon Norris is walking around almost as a child, and so is Vastappen, and so is LeCler and Russell, you know, he hasn't achieved any. anything more realistically than what they have achieved.

And I do feel like he used to step on. He needs to really grab a hold of something and have a statement season. Otherwise, I do feel like he might drop to kind of seventh or eighth overall in the grid. But yeah, for me, he's knocking on the door of that top five. If he nails it next season, I do think he could be a top five driver. Very close. Did you, sorry, I think I missed it.

Did you say Landon Norris was third in your list? I mean, yeah, him and Russell are interchanged. Yeah, okay. Yeah, this is a really tough question, which is why I set it as a question, because I knew it was going to be pretty borderline. You know, for me, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstapp are the top two drivers in Formula One.

Put them in whichever order you like, I don't mind. If you have someone else in your top two, don't start a conversation with me. Third place. I'm kidding. Start a conversation with me if you want. Probably won't go very well for you. Third place is Godlock.

for me. Even though Leclair and Seins has been pretty close this year, I do think that Leclair has been the better driver. Signs has done far better against him than I thought he would do, but even so, I don't think the points quite tell the full story on that occasion. And then, I think from about fourth down to tenth, you can put him in any order. It's really difficult when you get down into that sort of fourth to tenth range, because comparing them is really difficult with the different machine. Of course it is. It's difficult with the different machinery. You have to, there are questions about all of them. George Russell, yes, there is a legitimate case to have him in there.

There is also a very legitimate question, which is, can we say he's proven himself when he's been against Robert Kubitsa and Nicholas Latifi? You could say the same thing for Pierre Gazley. Pierre Gasly has done a great job over the last couple of years, but how much can you read into him beating a demotivated Danny Kovia and a rookie Yuki Sunoda? Then you've got the almost the other end of the spectrum, which is Sergio Perez and Valtry Bottas, and you can look at them and say,

how good would they look if they weren't in the shadows of their teammates? Who knows? It's a really legitimate question again. You've then got a few other names as well, so Fernando Alonzo, where does he stack up? I think given how well he's done this year, he's in the conversation.

Lando Norris, beaten by Carlos signs, but seems to have made strides this year. You can't tell what would have happened if there was a third year between the two of them. And then there's Daniel Ricardo as well. How much are you willing to downgrade Ricardo as a result of this year? Are we willing to just say all of a sudden, no, he's no good anymore? Or are we going to put this season as an anomaly?

For me, I've actually, I've wrestled with this one all day. And I think I've disagreed with myself about three or four times as to whether he just sneaks in there in fifth. I actually put, and this might, I might look stupid in a year's time. I have Daniel Ricardo as the fourth best driver in F1. You're mad. It has been an awful year for him, an awful year. But I'm not willing to give up on someone who has done such a great job in his career. He did so good at Renault.

I know Vestappen wasn't the driver then that he is now. But Ricardo was right there with Vestappen for years. And I think in 2022, Daniel Ricardo's McLaren, is suited more to him. I think we will see again more. to drive it he is. Again, in a year's time, you can come back to this episode and you can laugh at me if I'm wrong, but I'm not willing to give up on him yet. And then I think the battle for fifth then is actually between Sines, Norris and Perez. People might say Perez, really? He's been dominated by Vastappen, so as everyone else, apart from Daniel Ricardo. And also, Perez last, we can't just take

this year into the equation. Perez last year was many people's vote for driver of the season. Let's not forget that. I've had him just about in fifth place, Carlos Seines, just ahead of Perez and Norris. So I feel like I'm a lot of the time, possibly the harshest on him. But I've actually the only one that's just about got him in the top five. But honestly, rank from fourth down to tenth,

rank him in any order. I won't disagree with you. That's interesting. Maybe we should do that one day. We should do our first to 20th of where we think each driver sits on the grid. Yeah. Jack Villeneuve first, right Harry? Not even listening to you, idiots.

Well, you're probably going to want to start listening again because you have an important battle on your hands and that battle is against the one that Mr Samuel Sage because for our final segment, our final segment tonight we are playing a brand new game which is of course, Alonzo or Alonno? We are genuinely. sticky with that title. Sam, would you mind doing a jingle of sorts, please? We are

massively underprepared for this. Here we go, folks. Alonso C, Alonso, no, a luxo C, Aluxo no, Alago, C, Alago no. Fernando. I didn't know if it was going to stop. we did rumour before we came on live that I might just keep doing it until the podcast game just do it as like a BV like a backing vocal what's Ben's talking

explaining again so I like so I know this segment is yeah that works actually keep going I know this segment is currently shrouded in mystery

you'll be happy to know that it's actually very it's basically true or false rebranded but it's all that them wrong every time. Yeah, but it's rebranded, so maybe that can take away the... Maybe that's the key.

It's a different title to the segment. Essentially, I've got... I've got eight different... I've got eight statements in front of me all about Fernando Alonzo. Some of them are true, Alonzo. Some of them are false. Alon, no. We'll take it in turns.

Whoever gets the most points wins. Sam, since you love true or false is so much and you get every 50-50 wrong, you can go first. What number would you like, one to eight? Oh, wow. I was hoping there'd be a full team in there because folks, that's his racing number, true or false.

Folks who have issues with noise that complain the podcast is too loud. I'm so sorry about the collapse. I'm going to go with number huang. Oh no Sorry that just reminds me of that Australian GP question To Juan Pablo Montoya

Our favourite Yeah one do when Yeah Honestly after you've listened to this Go check that out But um Okay number one The furthest back

Alonzo has come from To get a podium Was Singapore 2008 When he started 15th Is that true or false Alonzo Or Alonno Um

A long No False You think that's false Any reason why you think is false I think you've been cheeky And you've changed one small element Of this detail

That is all I think it is Harry Have you got any thoughts Before I reveal Do I have to answer as well You don't have to answer I'm just curious if you I'd go with Alon no

well on, on Sam it is false a long no on this one the furthest back he's come to win a race is 15th at Singapore however he came from 16th at the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix

which if you are this is seamless if you are a member of the Patreon we are doing a race watch along this weekend because it's a non-race weekend and we are doing 2005 Japanese Grand Prix so I can't believe you've done that.

Effortless. How professional are we that two-thirds of this podcast are surprised when we did it as seamless link. Making it so unseemless. No mind. There's us in the background, gasping. You might want to retire now, Sam, because you are one for one. Well done.

You've got that one. Harry, a number between two and eight, please. Three, please. Number three. Now, Sam alluded to Alonzo's race number. number 14. This is kind of related to that. But this is related to the number 66. So Alonzo raced the number 66 at the 2019 Indy 500. And he did this because he believes, as stated, he deserves six Formula One World Championships. Sure. Of course. Oh, see, that's tricky,

because that's the kind of thing Alonzo might say. Because we all love a bit of fonts. I'll go for a long no, though. What would you've gone for, Sam? Just because it's some, I can't swear on the podcast, it's some poo-houseery. I'm going to say, a long so. Well, it's a good thing it wasn't your question, Sam, because that is a lot.

The reason he raced the number 66, it was as a tribute to Mark Donoghue, who won the 1972 Indy 500, using a McLaren that was number 66. So not the reason that I gave there. So, one all. Good start. Sam, what number would you like? I go down the other end, please, Jeff.

Number eight, please. Number eight. Fernando Alonzo has never won the first race of the Formula One season. Sure or false? Alonso, true. Harry? Um, I think that. is also Alonso.

I think it's true. You both wrong. It's false. Oh, Alonso, you suck! It's a bit of a tricky one because none of them, neither of them are actually melbourne. Oh, Bahrain, 06. And Bahrain 2010 as well.

Oh, you cheeky badger. Two of them. Stayed at one all. We got fall out big time, me how longso? What number would you like, Harry? Wait, what does Sam just pick? He just picked eight. Seven, please.

Seven. Alonzo has had three Brazilian teammates. Exactly three. True or false? You can work this out. Well, one of them is Felipe, baby. Felipe, baby! People cool.

Who was his teammate at? Manazi? Oh, yikes. I am going to go for a long no? He's had two? Sam, would you have said this was true or false? I have said a long no, this is false. This one is true.

I thought it was two as well. Oh, Nelson P.K. of course. That's the one I thought it was. He was a three-time champion of the world, Harry. Completely forgot about him. It was actually junior. be good, Junior. Felipe Massa.

Every time. As you correctly identified, Felipe Masa, and at Menardi, Tarso Marquez, also Brazilian. That's who I forgot. How can you forget? I mean, that elite class that came through in 2001,

you know, Fernando Alonzo, Mark Weber, one Pablo Montoya, and Tarso Marquez. Everyone remembers all four of them. Of course. Maybe it was Kimmy Wrightburn, not Mark Weber.

Oh, sorry, wrong one. Oh, come on. Sorry, Mark. Chunky dominating everyone. Gave, gave Mark Weber an extra year in F1. Sorry, really. Add that one, mate. Have that one for free.

Yeah. All right, stays one all then. Four numbers left. 24, five, six. What would you like, Sam? I'll have number two, please, come here. Number two, coming right up. No teammate has ever outscored Fernando Alonzo.

Well... Oh. Across... It's a long no. It's false. It is false. Well done. Yeah, he's good.

I have a real moment there. Only up and once, though. Only up and once. Jensen Button, in 2015. Finished level on points with the immortal Tarso Marquez when it was nil-0. And he finished level with Hamilton.

But the only time he's been outscored J.B. in 2015. So, well done, Sam. That was a long note. Way. Four, five, or six. you trail 2-1 Harry 4-5 or 6 5 please

number 5 straight down the middle Fernando Alonzo was the only Ferrari driver to get a podium in 2012 Alon no said with confidence any reason why I think Massa did in Japan

you're right he did and also it is home race in Brazil to close out the season as well So two podiums for him that year. So Alon, no, is correct. Alon correct. Alon correct. Alon correct, yes.

To give it the right title. Well, it's too all. It's getting close. Number four or number six, Sam. Which would you like? You've got a 50-50 choice to do a 50-50 choice. This is surely going to go well. Oh, I'm going to get something wrong along the way.

I'll have number six, please. All right. Fernando Alonzo is the only Spanish driver to win a Formula One race. Alonzo or Alon no? The silence, folks, is me having to cast my mind back. I'm going to say, Alon, no, through sheer probability. Well, it was a 50-50 choice on a 50-50 choice for picking the question, so of course Sam has got that one wrong.

He is the only Spanish driver to win a race. Oh Spain, you suck, come on. There you go, I've insulted a nation again. Well, yeah, that would probably prompt Carlos Sines to win this coming weekend in... We're not very big in Spain anyway. We're not very big in Spain, though, so who speaks Spanish? Don't have been mentioned it. Hola!

Hello, Uruguay, we love you. Yes, and a fun fan. fact about Uruguay that they do speak Spanish. Particularly fun fact for Harry, who believed it might be Uruguay. There we go. Pre-podcast chat for you there. Which does mean that Harry, if you get this one right, you beat Sam 3-2. If not, it ends in a draw.

And by virtue of elimination, you get number four. Try have number four, please. You can have number four. Fernando Alonso has never won. at Spa. Get it wrong. Alonzo, I don't think he has. You are correct.

He has never won at Spa. He likes crashing at Spa. He's digging, get it wrong. So that does mean that the final score, Harry 3, Sam 2. In a true or false quiz, Sam, we found out that it doesn't matter what we polish it up as,

you'll still lose. I'm still a turd. Just a shiny one. Do you want to sing us out? Do you remember it? No. Headphone users, turn it now, now as you're walking, sorry. Here we go.

Aloxo C. A luxo, no. A luxo C. A luxo no. A luxo see. A luxo no. Fangando. I enjoy, and people listening,

don't know this. Sam, when he does his clap, he turns in his chair. He clasped on the left And then he clats on the right Some good news folks That segment's probably never coming back So you'll never have to hear that again

That goes down as a greatest hit That'd be on the B side of the LB records I imagine Blimey I think that That's an hour well spent, isn't it? We'll leave it there Sam if you'll mind getting us out of here Oh God

That was a bizarre podcast If you have enjoyed what we've spoken about Including me a longso C a long so no segment. It wasn't even called that. Then get to the Discord joining 250 massive F1 fans

and the three of us are in there. If you want to talk F1, they're all there. If you want to talk to us, you want to ask us anything. F1 related or not, you're welcome to. We've also got big Patreon events coming up, which of course you hear about first in that Discord. So if you want to become a Patreon member, the link is in the description.

There's loads of tears to join. When I say loads, there's three or two. remember, and they're very, there's two, thanks Ben, and they're very minimal. But you get, you know, some extras, and we always try and sort some stuff out as well. Next thing coming up again, this Sunday. Correct, correct. What time is that GMT, please, Ben? 7pm GMT. You'll have to work that out wherever you are, folks, because I don't know.

But GMT 7 o'clock on Sunday. Yeah, so join that. In the meantime, I, this is. I've lost a 50-50 again. I'm very sad. I've been San Jose. See you later. I've been Ben Hocking. I've been...

Fernando. I remember. Keep breaking late. And Lung So, sick. Find more great shows or join the team at sport-ssocial.com. Cast is part of the Sport Social Podcast Network.