The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Who will Carlos Sainz drive for in 2025?!

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

The LB boys discuss the options that remain for Carlos Sainz's F1 future, the newly proposed race points structure, and Mercedes' Miami upgrades. They also cover the latest updates on the 2026 regulations, before finishing with a game of Order Please... FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes, historic race reviews & more! JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: SIGN UP & create your team, and JOIN our league (join code: C3PHEQHPU04) BUY our Merch SEND us something! We have a brand new PO box - address: Late Braking Podcast, PO Box 821, TRURO TR1 9PE EMAIL us at [e-mail] & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. And a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking, back with another midweek episode. And would you believe it, because we're recording a day early today, Sam, this means that I have spoken to you about F1 five days in a row. It's weird because folks If you knew we don't do this in person But it does feel like

Ben lives in my spare room And Harry is kind of living under the table At this point It's very weird You're in my eardrums a lot When are you going to leave? And Harry's been here three days in a row You are welcome, folks.

Three days Harry had the audacity To moan at me and Ben Forgot being 100% ready on time to go Well you know When I am here, I'm punctual Sure, we'll go with that. Let's move on. Occasionally punctual. That's how I would always describe Mr. Harry Ead.

That's what his LinkedIn profile. Occasionally punctual, Eid. Yeah, yeah, that's me. All right, rolls off the tongue. Fortunately, we're not just talking about each of our punctual abilities today. We are playing F1 order please later on, which, who knows, if there are some correct answers. Could be some Burko bangers coming on. That's out of context for anyone who hasn't listened to Order Please before. It's a game. It's fun. Trust me. We're talking a little bit about the F1 2026 regulations.

The new point structure potentially coming to Formula One with points being awarded all the way down to 12th place. But we're going to start with some comments made by Carlos Science in the lead up to the Chinese Grand Prix, claiming that his best options are still out there as pertains to the driver market. We know obviously he's moving on from Ferrari at the end of this season being replaced by Lewis Hamilton. one of his potential venues, Aston Martin, seemingly gone now that Fernando Alonzo has re-signed. But according to Carlos Sines, his best options are still out there. So, Sam, what did you make of these comments? Does it mean that the likes of Mercedes and Red Bull are still in play?

I think this is a very clever PR play from Carlos Sites. My best options are still out there. I'm not going to give you a single hint about who I'm talking about or where I'm going with this. But you there, Mr. Employee of my future career, you're my best option and you're still out there. It's basically how it reads. It comes across as whoever's going to approach me with a great offer, I'm interested and we can make something happen. And it's a really good way of not shutting down any future options. It keeps all the doors open whilst complementing a lot of people that they all know if they're in for Carlos Sites for next season.

They all know if he's someone that they're going after. And he is right. realistically, I do think that the best option is still out there, because currently the best option available is Red Bull. And whether you think that that is a certainty, it might or might not happen, or it's a complete no, the door is still open. They haven't signed both their drivers to deals. There is a seat technically available for next season. And Carlos Sikes, whether you like it or not, is available and in the running for that drive. And you would have to argue the Red Bull seat is the best seat of the grid right now. Now, he might not view it that way. Carlos Sikes, obviously, in the deep inside, might think,

Well, actually, I don't want to be match for Staffman's team, mate. I don't want to play second fiddle. I don't want a car built around him. Maybe. But also, it's probably his closest way to get to race wings on a regular basis. And just like against Charlotte Claire, he might prove a worthy enemy on the other side of the grid, an adversary. Equally, Mercedes. Could he build something at Mercedes?

Maybe he likes the plan of a long-term journey. I don't know. But if he likes the plan of a long-term journey, could he maybe feel Joe Guan Yucy at Salba? And then being the lead driver where it comes to Audi. the options are all still available to him. I really think this is a smart way of keeping himself in the press, reminding people he's still available,

and making sure that every door and every opportunity is open for him to control moving forward. I think it's good. I think it's smart. Hurry, do you view it the same way as Carlos Sines does as he said this in the buildup to the race? Yeah, I think so. I think he's perfectly entitled and perfectly right to say this,

say this because the best options are still out there. Yes. I mean, the worst option is not having a seat, but he's still entirely right. The best options are also still out there. So, yeah, I think he's entirely correct. He's in a good, well, for a driver that doesn't have a drive next year, he's actually in a good position, you'd say, given the options he has available are pretty good. One of them being Red Bull. Merck is, I mean, we don't know, but Merck is still tension on the cars. And obviously, there's Audi as well. So I don't disagree with them whatsoever. I guess he's in the privileged positions on what that he can choose,

which is, again, for a driver that doesn't have a seat next year, that's quite a niche one. Normally it's a, you take what you're given because you don't have a seat next year, but he's actually got, it's got multiple, I'm not saying they're on the table, but multiple options potentially on the table. Of those sort of three, let's say Red Bull, Mercedes and Salba slash Audi, maybe leading the way.

Could you foresee a situation where at least two of those three teams want him? I mean, yeah. There's Helmand Marcos saying that they can't match Audi's offer so that obviously means that Red Bull are interested. Audi have an offer,

so that means they're interested. So, yeah, like I said, he seems like he's in a privy. The chatterers to be believed, he seems like he's in quite a unusual position, as I say, in that sense, that he's got a couple of teams that are after him.

The Mercedes one, I don't know. Maybe that's less attractive to him, but they must also have been in talks, no doubt whatsoever. But the Audi and Red Bull one, the thing is for Carlos is, Red Bull is an easy win now, isn't it? Audi could be,

but I'd say he could be a Max Verstappan number two. And that's no disrespect to Carlos Sines. Whereas Audi, he could go, and it could be painful for a bit, but it could also become his team. and he could go on to achieve more success there. So I guess that's what he's pondering over. Yeah, I guess in that regard, you've got to be careful

and you've got to be sure of yourself and the team you're moving to if you are moving to a team that isn't there at the moment, but will be there or hope to be there in a few years' time. For example, the likes of Nika Holcomberg and Daniel Ricardo are still very much waiting for Renault to turn it around. And the only thing that they've managed to achieve in the last few, years as a name change. So you've got to be sure that that is the right move.

I think with Red Bull, I think it is still on the table for Carlos Sines. And I wouldn't necessarily say it's, I wouldn't say it's likely at this point, but it's still, it's still open. And look, I mean, if Red Bull were, if Red Bull were certain of Sergio Perez and his future prospects with the team, that have already signed him up. I mean, that's the reality of it. If they put a contract in front of Sergio Perez tomorrow morning, he'd have it signed by lunchtime. That's how desperate Perez wants to stay at the team. Of course he does. The Red Bull is a great seat. Of course, you'd want to be in that car if you have the option to do so. But based on his comments and also Red Bull's comments, it's very clear it's the team that are the reason why that's not yet signed and not Sergio Perez. Which means that Carlos Sines has enough incentive to keep applying the pressure on both Sergio Perez on track and Red Bull off track to try and weasel his way back to the team he basically left. I know he never raced for Red Bull, but he was part of that family

when he was with Toro Rosso. And because of that, because he was with Toro Rosso, he, I think probably knows as well as anyone just how quickly things can change at that team. Like Sergio Perez, for example, he's had a very good start to this season. He's mopped up a lot of podiums. He's had multiple second place finishes. You could argue he's doing not far off exactly what Red Bull need him to do. But again, there's a reason why they haven't signed that deal yet. And that is because we're getting to the middle part of the season where typically Perez has fallen off versus his teammate. I think Red Bull want to wait and see what happens. And if Carlos signs can start to put together a few good results, you know, in comparison to Perez, then suddenly

that opportunity becomes more and more likely. So I still tend to think that Red Bull is an option for him. When it comes to Mercedes, I don't know what you think about this, Sam, but when it comes to signs and Mercedes, I've been surprised that there hasn't been more chatter about it than there has been. Yeah, he fits into the mould really nicely, I think. I think him and George Russell would be a fine partnership. You know, both are exciting talents.

Science has more experience than Russell, but I think Russell could learn, I think or two as well from Science's time in the sport. It will make a lot of sense to sign a two-year deal or so for Carlos Science and then see where Kimmy Antenelli ends up being in a couple of years' time.

The one thing that I guess, and maybe Carlos Science has shot this down privately and we're unaware of it, and that's why there hasn't been more chatter, is because maybe Mercedes has approached Kim, very similar to what they did with Valtry Bottas and gone one year plus one year extension if we like what we or if Kimi Antingale isn't ready, you know, another year extension.

And maybe he's gone. I don't want to end up in a situation that I'm in at the moment. I don't want to be a weird rolling contract. You know, he's what, 30 now is Carlos Sines? Maybe he wants to have a three-year commitment at least before he goes, yeah, I'm ready to sit down and sign somewhere. And maybe that's why I'm going to say he's haven't been. Maybe they had talks at the start and it's been shut down almost immediately.

That's the only reason I think that someone like Toto Wolf isn't kind of doing the dunks in the public sphere and showing, hey, Carlos, there's a project here. Are you interested? Because I wonder if they don't want to scare off the likes of Kimi Antigli and make him panic, that the drive might not be his for another four or five years. I think it's the other way, surely the other way around. If Carlos signs, it's the same with Fernando Alonzo. Why the hell are you going there for? If Red Bull is on the table and or a potential of Audi, what Mercedes are going to offer you? Well, I think that's where the difference is. I think Alonso had Ashton Martin's hands.

Carlos Symp's, his options could dry up super quick if he doesn't make a decision at any point and he could be left with no drive and Mercedes is better than no drive. No, I agree. And if Mercedes was the only option, then obviously, yes, he would. But like I said,

I just don't think of the options he's got, Mercedes is the least desirable. I'm not saying he's just said no to them, but I don't know, maybe that's why it's just not quite as talked about. I'm not sure. Yeah, I guess I agree with you, I feel like I'm surprised that there hasn't been more chatter,

but more from Toto Wolf to Carlos Sines, rather than the other way round, because at least from my perspective, Toto Wolf has said a lot about Max Vestappen. He said a lot about Andrea Kimi Antonelli and hasn't really said a lot about Carlos Sines. And both of those other two drivers obviously have their merits. Antonelli could be one of the greats if he lives up to his potential.

Vestappen is already one. of the greats. So it makes sense that Toto Wolf would focus on those two drivers. But obviously, with both of them, there is a large amount of risk in that Max Verstappen, yes, if he would go to Mercedes, I think he might do an okay job. He's coming, he's an up-and-comer is for Stappen. I can see him making an impact on the team. But obviously, the risk actually comes from would it happen? because Toto Wolf is chasing a driver that has a contract. Fundamentally, that's what's going on. And Christian Horner today has made comments to say that Toto Wolf should focus more on his team and their car

rather than signing a driver that's already got a contract, which is spicy as usual between those two. But in a weird way, he has a point. And if it doesn't come to fruition, as we've discussed before, there is a risk that someone like Carlos signs or even someone else might look elsewhere because they don't think that's options available because all Toto Wolf is doing is courting Vastappen and trying to get him in that spot. And I guess the added risk as well with trying to get Vastappen on board is there's no deadline. At least with the other drivers that you're trying to get on board, like Alonzo as an example. If they were chasing Alonzo, the deadline is he's re-signed with Aster Martin.

that's done and dusted, like no more. Vastappan's already got a contract. So in theory, there's no point to say like, okay, no point chasing Vastappen anymore because the contract's already in place. So at what point do you go, okay, we'll give it up at this point and then look elsewhere because it might be too late at that point.

Yeah, do you think this is at risk of cheesing off Carlos Sons or other drivers potentially if you go, oh man, give it a risk chasing after this fantasy that's never going to happen. When I'm sat here and I'm, you're driving around in ninth place, and I'm not good enough for you. You think Mr. What will be four-time world champion at the end of the year is going to come and drive for you.

That would annoy me if I was a kind of a young, talented driver looking for a new seat. That would be frustrating. Yeah, and like Harry says, I mean, the other two options, Audi gives long-term prospects. Red Bull are pretty good at the F-1. And Mercedes are kind of this weird middle child where they are quite competitive,

but certainly nowhere near competitive enough to win titles at this point. So yeah, you've got to ask the question right now, does Carlos Sines put Mercedes third in his pecking order? Which, I don't know, that's quite damning for Mercedes. What did you think of Helmut Marco's comment about the, you know, we can't match Audi's offer? I thought it was quite interesting. I thought he was being quite coy, quite clever, basically saying, we can't match that money, so we're trying to get a cheap deal for Carlos Simes, but the value of being at Red Bull isn't the cash, because you're going to get a, paid well, but it's actually the

championship opportunities and what will come with that later on down the line, rather than cold hard cash being put in your pocket, which Audi can obviously deliver. I'll let you go first on that, Harry. Yes, it's an interesting. This reminds me of, I think it's David. No, I know it's David Koldthud,

but there's an interview he did a while ago, and he's talking about his move from Williams to McLaren and Williams offered him a not so good salary to stay at Williams at the end of 1995, Williams were the dominant team in the time. Macca came along with a big fat check, big Ron with his big wallet, and often more money.

Great decision, DC. Yeah, went to Macca, and obviously in 1996, the Williams was dominant. He could have won that championship. So that's a very similar parallel, I guess, because you could go, as you say, go for the less money but instant competitiveness. And this is,

choice that I was saying earlier that Carl Sines is probably trying to ponder himself is do I go for what could be immediate success now or do I go for what could be potential success? And I know potential success also comes with the

extra money as Audi are offering, but potential success could also be no success and then you're just a rich man with no success. Better than what we are. Yeah, I would say that's a poor man with no success. Yeah, very basic. Meng with very basic lives.

Good. My read on the Helmut Marco comment is that where he says that we can't match that offer, to be very clear, they can. They absolutely, yes, there is a very clear word that should have been in there and it's won't rather than can't. If they wanted to pay Carlos signs what he deserves to be paid, they'd pay it. There's no money issue. Bear in mind, this is a team that basically spent before the budget cap was in place like three times the amount that they're currently spending on F1.

They got cash. They're all right in that regard. The point is, as you say, is won't. And look, this isn't a dig at Red Bull in any way because they should pay Carlos Sines if they want to, whatever they feel he's worth. Like if Audi are willing to pay him a certain deal and Helmut Marco and others within Red Bull are looking at, that and going, yeah, Carlos Seitz is good, but he's not worth that. Then they shouldn't pay it. Like, that's their own judgment of what his value is. So I, it's not digging Red Bull whatsoever. But when he says that they can't match it, it's not that they can't match it. It's just that

they won't. I think that Red Bull are the only team in the power position as well with Carlos Sanks. I think Mercedes would be lucky to have such a driver. And I think Audi would be lucky to have such a driver with such experience. So Red Bull, the only ones that could turn around to go, nah, we'll just take something else on because we can. I think they are in a very lucky position to do so. Harry, would you like the opportunity to laugh at myself and Sam because we both said that Sines was going to move to Aston Martin earlier on this season?

Enjoy this one, mate. No, no, no, because I know how this game works and I know that I will be wrong a lot, so I'm just not going to be smug. Oh, a humble man. This is going to be so funny when he's guessed the grid exactly for next year. I've taken no opportunity to rub it in.

It's not worth any points. We swiftly move on. for your no point wing. I mean, on a more serious note with Aston Martin, Harry, do you think that it was ever a possibility or was it always in Alonzo's hands, therefore there's no point in those talks going very far? Yeah, I think it was always in Fernando's hands, wasn't it?

If Alonzo had signed somewhere else, then boom, Mike Crack would have been straight on the phone to Carlos. Oh, but not my crack, Mike Crack. How many more years do we have to deal with this joke? until he leaves. It'll be forever. It still makes me laugh when I say it on the tip

when Coffty says it. It gets me every time. Such children. Why would you not go as multiple? Michael crack. Come on. Oh, I'm a child. Anyway,

yeah, I think but that was never going to happen unless Fernando decided he wasn't going to stay, Aston Martin. And to be honest, why would they... are they pursue

long term yeah you can see it but you don't want to make the mistake Alpine did and not go for Fernando Alonza because you're going for the long term option and then end up with nothing so few that they had that

dodged a bullet there in you Alpine God, well played imagine if you're like a long time Piacritu or tea what a horror show that could be oh that's the disastrous line up in it

anyway but yeah so I think I think it wasn't really an option would you agree with that Hey, here's a novel idea. Get rid of the guy that crashes into everyone and can't score any point. He's actually all right for a number two driver, leave my love. It's better than half the field, apparently.

Seriously, if he was not related to the owner of the team, he would not exist in Formula One, and they would have a super Spanish line-up, and it would be great. For the fact that you could call it. Did you not here? Is he? I didn't know. Yeah, it's just coincidence at their games. the same. They're not the same. It's Lauren Strohl and Lance Strullivich.

Sorry, is that Lance? Is he turned up to bully you, Ben? What up? Ben! Get off the podcast! It's Lance Stroll and the mean green posse they've come for me. The mean green Canadian team. I can't imagine we're going to get him on the podcast any time soon. No, probably not. Anyway, that will do it for Carlos Sines chat at least for another week. And again, we are recording a day early this week. So congratulations to Carlos Sines, who has signed a deal with insert team here as this has already gone out. On the other side, we're going to be chatting through F1's new potential point structure.

Okay, everyone, welcome back. Moving on to the point structure that exists within F1 at the moment. And it's been somewhat stable since it was introduced in 2010, 25 points for a win. going down to one point for 10th place. The only real change that we've had since that point is the introduction of sprint races that obviously come with points and also the fastest lap point that was introduced a few years ago. But there are talks that this might be changed going forward to allow the top 12 drivers in a race to score points.

So at least in terms of the distribution of points, nothing would change in terms of the top seven finishes in a Grand Prix, but then rather 8th, 9th and 10th getting 4, 2 and 1 point respectively, it would go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 down to 12th place. So over 50% of the field, at least with 10 teams, would be getting points in a Grand Prix. It also looks, and again, this is almost definitely going to be one that's announced on Wednesday, as we record this on a Tuesday evening. At the moment, it's looking fairly positive that this will go through.

Sam, what are your thoughts on it? I don't know what my thoughts are, Rogget Bing. Harry? Yeah. Yeah, me, I'm taking up residence. I'm a squattering Harry's house on the fence. I don't know how you stay up at all the time, mate. It's uncomfortable. But I really am torn. I'm Natalie Brugier over here, and I am already torn. And I don't know. June. Great, Tim. Miss it to go out the way home from work to go. It's fantastic. I don't know whether I think that this is a good idea or not. And we've had a lot of points changes in the recent history of Formula One.

We used to have, of course, the top six got points, and then the top eight got points. And now it's the top ten that get points. And I'm not going to lie. I like that the top 10 get points at the moment. It feels like a fair reward, 50% of the grid. It makes sense. Do you remember when they decided to do double points in the last race of the season? That was a great change that definitely worked, wasn't it? Sure. Yeah, good. I'm happy to remember that. Thank you, Bernie. Fastest lap point. I actually like the fastest lap point. I think that's a nice addition. It's an interesting one. My problem here is, okay, so top 10, it feels fair. It feels fair. that it's got to be a challenge to score points

and you've got to beat a lot of cars around you and, you know, it's a real reward for you at the end of a Grand Prix to pick up points at the moment because, you know, you've got yourself into the top 50% brilliant. The difficult thing here, of course, is if we're in current state where the teams have a very set order and you have, you know, your Red Bull, your Ferrari, your McLaren, your Mercedes, Jurassic and Martin,

it's incredibly difficult for your bottom five teams to come along and pick up any points. So they all fight over absolutely nothing, which is a shame because, all that work, you know, how many times have we seen Esteban Okon, for example, in China? Battled so hard, drove so well, gets nothing for his efforts. Really, really rubbish, and he got nothing.

But equally, that's the part of the game. It's, you know, a bit heartbreaking when you do put such a driving and you'll be rewarded later on down the line. But my problem with 12, again, is why just 12? If we're going to 12, why not go for 20? Why not give everyone points at that point? Because it feels so minuscule. It feels like we're not going far enough.

and it's almost like, you know, chucking a dog of bone here. Go on, mate, have a chew on that. You'll enjoy that for a bit, and then you'll get bored of it again. And that's what it feels like here. It just feels like we've gone, oh, those backmarker teams, keep them sweet, chuck up a point occasionally. And I don't know if I like that. So I am on the fence.

I am torn about it, and I'm not sure if it's the right way forward or if they should go far enough. I also took a little stab at my own run of the 10th down, first down to 12 points changes. To see, and I thought it should go more like this. I think I'll start from, starting from the bottom, now we're here. I'll go from 12 up to 1. So I think it should go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 22. Because I do believe that first place getting 25 is too strong in a bar to have over second place. And when you have such a dominant season, such as Max de Stappen,

it sets the gap too far apart. And I think they run away with the championship too early, especially with this many Grand Prix. So I do think some changes also need to be made to what points are awarding up front. It should still be a better advantage for winning. I think you should get that reward, just not to the level that they're giving at the moment. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm willing to be discussed here and can not be heard out?

And, you know, I'd love to know people's thoughts, especially those distinct letters know. But for me, I'm not certain. Either way, I'm really not. That's an interesting way to distribute the points in terms of getting 22 for first place, because that's essentially when the points change came in in 2010, that's something that was dramatically different, was that previously you'd get 10 points for a win, eight points for second, six points for third.

So there were two points separating both third and second place, but then it was the same jump up from second to first, whereas now we've got three points that separate third and second, and then seven points that separate second and first. So there is a bigger gap, or there is a gap where there wasn't one previously. Harry, what are your thoughts on this potential change? I hate it. I hate it.

Here we go. Strap yourselves in, here we go. I love it. I love a Harry E. Rump. Why on earth are we rewarding people for finishing in P12? Quite frankly, I wouldn't even reward them finishing P10. What would you do? P.A.

Yeah, P8. I agree with you, Sam, on the difference between first and second, by the way. I've thought that for a long time. It's too much. And when you get a runaway season, it becomes more of a runaway season. season because they get all the extra points and they keep winning all the time. The same person keeps winning. So I agree on that one.

But no, I hate it. It just feels like you are rewarding people for being average. And that's just not what I have fun on this about. And also, this just feels like a way of trying to fix things because all the teams are, there's a problem with your formula. Sort your formula out. Stop trying to just change the point system. It's like the meme of the person with the plaster sticking it on that massive water tank,

like slapping it on. and the water tank is Formula 1 and the plaster is a different point system I hate it, don't like it at all getting the bin, obviously they're going to do it because they've said it and that's what F1 does. The only thing that would

make me feel slightly better about it is if you're introducing more teams F1 but you know Oh yeah, if we had 24 teams on the grid and 12 score points then I'm okay with it 100%. It makes more sense, doesn't it? Because there's more cars.

You have to have more more points up for grabs, but you won't do that, F1. Although no one's told Andretti. Yeah, no, I'm not a fan of it. And I've seen arguments, you know, Motor GP have it up to P-15 and no one's complained,

which I find hard to believe. People must have complained. But I don't know. I just don't, it doesn't sit well with me that you get. And I appreciate the point you made Sam about, you know, Establan Okun, for example, or, you wouldn't, Uki Sunoda kept doing it as odd

and he kept finishing P11, never got a point. But it's just the way of the game. And if you're going to get precious about that, then like you says, I mean, we'll just give it out to all of them. Everyone gets a point. But then what is the point? Pardon, pardon. What is the point of that?

Because you're just rewarding people for Logan Sargent, for example, not to pick on Logan Sargent, but it's Logan Sargent having the worst race ever. He finishes and last and gets a point. No, we're not doing that. So I don't like the idea of it, but I'm going to have to put up with it because they're probably going to say yes, aren't they?

Yeah, that's usually the way it goes. I've come round to it. Oh, we are all three opinions today. That is unusual. I know. And the thing is, like, I can't escape the same feeling like that you have, which is that points should be tricky to achieve.

But overall, I do think it's, it's the right move. And it's, I completely agree with you, by the way, that this point structure is not going to solve anything. Like, it should not in any way be a solution for the way that Formula One is right now.

But as much as we joke and complain about the back market teams, I think the reality is we have the most competent grid of all time in F1 over the last couple of years. And when I say most competent like first down, to 20th. I mean, we haven't got HRTs, we haven't got caterrooms, we haven't got BAR starting a season with like

10 straight retirements or whatever the hell they did in 1999. Reliability has got to such a good point and I think the overall gap between first and 20th has got to such a good point that I think the battles for 11th and 12th place mean more than they did 10 years ago.

I feel like, and that's the reason I'm not for giving the whole grid points is that I don't want situations where, sorry, Logan's pick on you again, Logan Sargent finishes P-17 and he gets a point. That's not what I won. But I feel like we've reached a point where nearly every battle that does go on for P-11 and P-12 is not, I don't know, it's not just the last survivors. It's not the, it's not two drivers having a terrible race going up against each other. In a lot of instances, it is Esteban-Ockon in P-11, pretty much putting together a faultless weekend or, you know, Alex Albin putting together a good weekend in the Williams

and not getting anything for it. And my point is also laid in that Chinese Grand Prix was a good example. Do you remember quite early on in the race? There was, I think it might have been Gassley and Albin. They were battling and they switched positions like four times on the timing tower. Never got to see the battle. But we could just see the timing tower's going and flipping like one back and forth, right, for like a couple of minutes. We never got to see it, which is annoying and something we've always complained about in terms of race direction. I would hope that if that battle is suddenly four points or on the cusp of points, then maybe rather than continuing to watch the back of Sergio Perez not doing anything for five laps, we might actually

see some more battling and we can view the entertainment. I'm here for more. I'm here for more battles meaning more and I feel like F1's at a point now where the battles for P12 are good enough that I'm okay with this. I hear your point but surely if that thing happens for P12, okay everyone's got points but now what happens to the battle for P30 and 14 if they're going back and forth over and over again and it's we're not seeing it because it's not worth points. When does it stop? Where is the actual cutoff point? Well I mean I would still argue even if it isn't worth points at the moment it should be viewed. Oh I agree. We know. We know. that's the case, right? Yeah. I'm just hoping that actually changes the attitude of race direction more

than anything. But again, that's why I think at the moment, it's very rare that we have fewer than, say, 15 or 16 drivers finish a Grand Prix. It's very rare that we have more than about three or four drivers that have an absolute stinker of a Grand Prix. I haven't gone back and looked at every single race in the last year or so, but I feel like we've got to, point where the drivers who are finishing 12th are generally lower drivers that are doing a good job. Yeah, I think fair. Okay. I think like you said, Harry, the problem isn't the point system.

And that's what's frustrating me about this is, okay, we get great battles all the way from first down to 20th. More often than not, we get really great battles between 11th and 20th. And you know what? It's the race director's fault, the TV direction's fault, that we don't. see that as a viewer. And that's exciting. You know the battle between Magas and Stroll. Magisor, and I don't care attitude. Stroll is annoyed because he thinks Daniel Riccardo is at fault for ruining his Grand Prix. And those two are furious and going at it. We saw it. It was fun

to watch. I enjoyed watching it. But that should happen every Grand Prix. It shouldn't be a, there's a battle like you said, Ben, perfectly valid. Ocona Ghazli. Not Okonga Ghazli, not Okonga Ghazli, dropping back and forth, back and forth. It should be shown. And it should be shown whether it's for points or not. Now the points changing is not the solution. The points changing is a plaster of the problem. The problem is the lack of race direction, the inability to showcase a battle, whether it's for points or not, because it's racing on track, and that is exciting. It's the same with, you know, the fact that, oh, we've got a dominant formula and actually only one team's able to take advantage of that. Well, the formula's the

problem. Not giving more points to further people back. The formula is the issue. We're going to to race side by side for a long period of time. That's got points. The formula is the problem. Formula one drivers, I believe, will race hard against you. each other no matter where they are on a racetrack. If they can see a position, they will try and go for it because they are not losers. They always want to be winners. So I do get the whole brilliant drive. Ocon deserved it.

It did deserve a point. Ocon did deserve a point in China. But do I think we should change the entire point system to reward something like that? Or should it be so rewarding when he finally gets the 10th place? That's what I'm struggling with. I'm really not sure. I do lean more towards keep it at 10, but I'm not sure. There was a quote from one of the team principles, and I didn't know down who it was,

or potentially it was anonymous anyway. He brought up a point of how you could have a race where there's multiple DNFs, maybe a late safety car or something like that, and the team gets, let's say, a fourth or fifth place finish, which could be that one result is a deciding factor for the season versus more consistent point scoring lower down in. let's say 11th and 12 and they don't score any points. Harry, how do you view that? Because there's a lot of,

whenever a small team does get a position like a fourth or a fifth, there is a lot of jubilation behind it. Do we lose that if we go to 12 and there's more regular point scoring? Yeah, and then this is, I think, to your, what Sam just said, the reward is, yeah, yes, Esteban Oconier fought hard in China and he got a P11. It's no point. but as you say, when he does get a point, or if he gets a point or points,

then it's, it's, it will feel so deserved and so earned. And you're right. If teams, I'm not, that's probably not a reason to not do this, but if teams are just getting points all the time,

it will make it less of a, less of a big deal when a, when a team gets a, a, a sort of team gets a big result. Which, again, and that's probably, that's more just like a,

from a, I don't know. passionate point of view, isn't it? But I don't want, I don't want that, don't want teams to be, Kevin Magnetton getting proposition in Brazil. I know that's not points, but getting a proposition in Brazil.

That's sort of underdog story and the reaction they had to it. That should be, that's the stories that make F1. So rewarding them, as I say, rewarding them for being further down all the time, I just don't think is right. And this is where I think there's,

it's a difference in approach because you've either got that size, of things, which is the more, not one-off moments, but the rarer moments of a lower team doing a great job and getting a great result. And then I think I somewhat made this point on the power rankings is that Nika Holkenberg, who's delivered a great season so far, really consistent performances, has scored four points. Now, you could have someone who turns up at the next race. Let's just say, I don't know, I can't pick on Logan Sargent again, so I'll go with Joe Guan Yu. Joe Guan Yu picks up at seventh place.

Late safety car helps him out. That's worth six points, and he's ahead of Nika Holkenberg in the championship. Now, my point of view is I would rather see consistent point scoring across like multiple races matter more for someone like Nick Holkenberg than one fluke result. Now, I think, like you say, the one fluke result would, as an individual moment, would be pretty epic, I think. but it's just, I think it's just where you come from, right? It's two different, slightly different ways of thinking. I think that's the point, though, isn't it? It's a fluke result.

It happens once every couple of seasons. And I don't think you should create a whole system around stopping something that happens once every couple of seasons. Sebastian Vetter winning at Monsor in 07, for example, one of the most memorable moments in Formula One, incredible, incredible result, right? And that wouldn't be the same level of success if he was picking up 12th places every single Grand Prix before that

and then got that wing. I know it sounds silly because, okay, it's still a big thing. I think it would. I don't. I'm not saying it would be amazing. I just don't think it would be remembered to the same level

because if he picked up seven 12th places and he got seven points out of it and then he gets a first place and he gets a wing, I feel like, I don't know, I just feel like that it's so much more different. And I think we've seen so many brilliant results.

I'm trying to think of another one. When Ocon's at Victory, for example, right? Incredible. When Ghazly won at Monza, incredible. And I do just think that I don't really like the idea of a whole system changing for a result that comes across once every 24

or 36 months at most. I don't think that one result takes away from everybody else being consistent for 40 races in a row. For me, it's not enough of a swing. Yeah. I have to say, I don't think the likes of a Ghazly win or an Ockon win in those situations, I don't think my enjoyment would have been impacted at all if they'd scored some more points

for 11th and 12th place throughout those seasons. That's totally fair. Yeah. I'll tell you what, we have got F1 fantasy to review because there have been some, there have been some changes. Yeah, someone is an up and comer in this. Oh, you wait and see folks what's happened here. Firstly, we actually need to talk about the people that matter, and that's not us.

It's the people at the top of our championship. Thank you to everyone who's flooding in, by the way, into the league. We've got a lot of people now, but leading them all, sweet papayas on 1,451 points, doing an epic job because no one else in our league is above 1,400. Also... I also love sweet papayas. Or just the name. No, you can show me your sweet papas all day long.

Late breaking after dark. Second place at the moment is Zubuggy ESP on 1,383 points and late shaking is currently third on 1,368. That's what we get up until we're night out, boys, boys and girls. On the dance floor, we're late shaking. We're doing some light shaking. I'm not quite sure why Vernon Kay's there.

Sam, he's always there on our night. It's true. It's us three and Vernon K. Sam, man. Sam, you're leading the way still on 340th. I had an awful week, but I'm still second, 428th. K-Dog, K-Dok, K-Durstie, producer Kirstie, 675th at the moment. Respect.

But we've, I think, all three of us have maybe gone down on where we were the week before. But someone who is not gone down. at all is Mr. Harry Ead. He know. Harry was not doing very well after Japan, but he has turned things around at China because he is up seven places, which means he now sits 1,170th. Choo-choo, he's a-cubbin. Oh, that boy making games.

Good chow. What's the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so glad I used my chip to change all my drive. and then they were all terrible. Thank you guys. He's learned how to do transfers. Someone else has a lot of time.

Yeah, I still got some places. So, yeah, watch out. That's all I'll say. If you want to join, it's not too late. We do still have all the information ready for you to join in the description. And I think,

Harry, possibly more than everyone else, would be very happy for you to do so because at least temporarily, you'd be behind him. But give it a race or two and you'll be fine. also big up beef thank you for organizing and for sharing the updates every week yeah yeah beef's beating everyone yeah yeah somehow has really come out of nowhere what on beef is beating all four of us

don't like that no well we'll make some changes for next race apart from harry's used this chip so that's his team for the rest of the year now but we'll take our we'll take our next break at this point on the other side we've got some more Mercedes chat. Toto Wolf made a very bold statement after the Chinese Grand Prix. He said the W-15 is not an OK car. But he did also. Yeah, believe it or not. Bold statement, though it may be. But he has said that upgrades are coming for Miami. Harry, what's the hope for them to be not as bad as they've been? I don't know anymore. They said this before they're right. they've said this already once this year

they've got upgrades coming and it's done absolutely naff all. Out of five races, Hamilton's had like three P-9s. That's terrible. Yeah, I... Sure.

Are we speaking about this before with Mercedes and whether they should keep flogging this? Which it appears they are. I know it's a long season now these days, but it does feel a little bit like yeah, it's bad, but don't worry.

We got some of it. coming, guys. And it's like, yeah, okay. You keep saying that and nothing happens, Toto. I'm really sorry, mate. Maybe I'm being pessimistic and the upgrades will come and they'll be much better. But it's not looked good so far. So I'm not very optimistic for their chances. I mean, how depressing is it for them given that Lewis Hamilton was like, I'm in a pretty bad spot. went very bold with setup changes. It can't get any worse and then it did. I don't know. To me it feels like they're trying everything

to the point where they've kind of tried everything and it doesn't matter which way you spin it, it's still a bad car. Yeah, and this is a thing that's like played Mercedes for the past three years. They just don't seem to understand what is wrong with their cars. They know something's wrong with it.

they try something. Sometimes the car works for some reason, and then sometimes it doesn't, and they don't know what, both times, even when it does work, they don't know why it's worked. And that's just,

they're like, just throwing stuff to the wall, stuff, and seeing if it sticks. And sometimes it sticks, and sometimes it doesn't. And that's, I think,

their main problem. I'm not saying they haven't got clever people there, they do, but they just don't fundamentally seem to understand what is, what makes their car, go well.

Which is not a great thing in the world of Formula One, one could argue. What do you think, Sam? I mean, could these upgrades elevate them all the way to the lofty heights of sixth and eighth? I mean, he's becoming the toto that cry wolf at this point, isn't he? We've... Didn't have my drums. Go on. Do it again.

Okay, hold on. Are we ready, folks? Ben, ready? Starting to worry, might not actually have that sound of it. Honestly, we've lost the organics at this point. I think we should probably move on. No, I can do it. Is that meant to be birds, cheery?

It's crickets. Oh, that was horrible. They really don't sound like crickets, do they? No. Was that it, Harry? Brilliant. Good. That, obviously, is destroyed any point I'm going to make it.

It was that bad. Good stuff. Very good. Saved it. Bravo. So, yes, the man must love going down the beach because boy, his opinions flip-flopping around. Honestly, the...

Come on. Honestly. It's a drummer minute. A bit a minute. It's the one of slowest song. Honestly, I don't think the guy knows what he's on about. I don't think the saying is now what they're wrong about. I don't trust that these upgrades are going to do anything.

They've said time and time again, oh, we've worked out the direction. We know what's wrong now. Oh, this direction for the car is much more safe and we've scrapped the old one because it didn't make sense. I just don't think they have a clue what they're testing.

And I think they are lucky that they've got incredibly expensive facilities and incredibly, incredibly intelligent people there to pull something out of the bag that's bearable. Because I do think if this was someone like Haas or if this was someone like Alpine at the moment, I think they could be way further down the order

if they didn't have the natural, that some of their team members have. And their driver line-up, I do think, is pulling them up the rafters a little bit. I think if you were to stick, I don't know, a partnership of Logan Sargent and Lance Stroll in that car, I don't think they'd be scoring points at all. I think it's pure, good driving from those drivers.

So this is not, I'm not filled with hope. I'm not filled with encouragement. And you know what, Toto, it's got to the point when I'm going to, I'll believe it when I see it. Well, you actually put it on the track, and I can see that you are finishing 6th and 8th and not 7th and 9th. then sure, I'll give you a round of applause and I don't even know if that's a worthy reaction to you.

But no, I don't feel good about it. And I'm not sure it's worth delivering. And I think they're wasting their time. And they should focus on 2026 because then you could get back in front of your competitors because you're not going to close the gap to Red Bull in 18 months. I've got a Ben childhood story now. Don't worry, it's a fairly quick one.

How many of those do we get? You act like that's a normal thing that appears. Well, okay. I've got a rare, not usually seen Ben Childhood story here. I'm excited. Growing up, and this is a particular, a mama hooking story as well. Oh, pick up, motherhacking. So growing up, hated jacket potatoes.

Out of context, that will be. Hate a jacket potatoes, right? And bless Mama Hocking, she tried every which way possible to get me to like them. just whatever could be done to a jacky potato was done to try and get me to like them. But I never did. And do you know why? Because it was a jacket potato. And I don't like jacket potatoes.

You can put as many upgrades on a bad car that you like. Fundamentally, it's not good. And I just don't think they're going to be one two now, of course, in Miami. But I just don't think it's going to have much of an impact. I just think it's so at its core, it's, it's flawed. And I think they might be able to find ways to improve it. I think there might be ways in which they can deal with it. They might get to a point where they do find the ultimate setup for this car, but it can't resolve the fact that it's just not good. So I just look at

some of the things that Toto Wolves said as part of this quote. I've obviously said already that he believes it's not an okay car. But a few things that he's also said about these upgrades, he said, hopefully we're a bit quicker. He said, looks like a good step. He said, let's see where that brings us out. There's no confidence in those words. It's maybe. It's not the same as like a Mercedes of the past or a Red Bull of now where they're maybe trying to just downplay their chances a little bit. This just genuinely feels like a lack of confidence of we're trying something, but we're not entirely convinced it's actually going to do much for us, which is not a good position for them. When do heads start to roll at this point? Come on. They're not making any major changes and they get the same poo results. You're really on this one. Yeah. When do they make changes? It's not good enough. This, oh, we might be all right. Oh, it might go okay. Yeah,

that's like me trying to get the bus in the rain. I've forgotten my umbrella. Oh, I might be all right. Or I might not get too wet. No. Get an umbrella. Resolve the situation. And you ain't got to worry about if things are all right or they're not because you've got an umbrella. And the same case, Ben, did you ever end up liking a jacket potato, by the way? I'll just still hate it. Nah. All right. Nah.

No, I don't imagine. Potato, that's absolutely baffling to me. Weirdly, I'm in the middle of you to do as a kid. I hate you again. I had to take the skin off and I just had the potato. But now, I'm quite happy to have jacket potato with beans and chicken nuggets. I work with two children. One has it with beans and chicken nuggets.

You are also a child? What are you wrong about? I mean, I will eat it. It's just we're not. in rationing anymore? Like, there's more out there. It's a wartime Britain. Do you know, I like your jacked potato

and spam, Ben? Harry, what do you have? What's your ideal jacket? There's so much variety with a jacket potato. Yeah, sure. You've got to have a top tier. So much you can do it. Potato, man.

Come on. Let get undressed. Let get cool off. Take the jacket off of it. Get your potato naked, guys. Get comfortable. Take your coat off. Have a glass of wine.

Yeah, but let's take the coat of then it's just like a boiled potato and that's absolute hash. I would argue. On hash browns on the other hand are sensational. What's your favorite type of potato? Honestly, all our best segments

start and end with jacket potatoes. Just they do. The irony, if you hate it, but love talking about them. It's delivered me great five minutes of this podcast. You've forgiven Jacket Potatoes. Does anyone know a segue from Jacket Potatoes to Active Aero plans? Yeah, Jacket Potatoes are terrible in a wind tunnel. But they might be

better than the 2026 cars are at the moment because there are issues with those new cars, with the movable aero that looks like it's going to be in place. So cars will essentially, when I say movable arrow, cars will run with a high downforce configuration in corners, but then sort of revert to a low downforce configuration when on the straits, extracting as much performance from the car as can possibly be. But there's been some alarming testing that's been carried out where the rear wing was in the low drag configuration, and when the engines at full power, the car was undrivable. and the conclusion is that the 26 plan will now feature or now incorporate both front and rear wings

to have this movable arrow to try and work with one another. So it sounds like there are some teething issues, Sam, with the build-up to 2026. Are you worried about this at all? No, I'm not worried at all. I generally think if you can have teething issues at any stage, have it before it's actually happening in our racetrack. because we've all been hurt before. Our childhood crush, aka the ground effect, aero car, comes along and promises you so much

and makes you dream of better things. And then they walk in one day, and you know what, it's not good enough. And it doesn't work how you expect it is and you let down. Now, I am okay with them coming out here and saying, hey, this isn't working as expected right now, and we're going to make some adjustments for this. And we realize that actually, to get the result that we want,

we're going through some teething issues, and we're running loads of simulation data. And I love that they've come out and said, actually, it's backfired slightly. We're going to need to make some changes for it. I'm all for that. I am okay with that. I love the idea that we're going through this four-wing stage.

And actually, it looks like we might not have DRS, potentially is one of the options now. You're going to have a high-down force option on both the front and the rear. You're going to have a medium state, and then a low drag state, which of course is for, we're taking down straight lines or it might be that, you know, you're in Monza and you always run the low downforce and then you switch to the very high downforce while going through corgers. It's a really interesting concept. And it's a lot to work out mechanically, right? It's

in a very advanced and intelligent system. So there's going to be teet problems. There's going to be issues. But I'm really pleased because they're testing it this thoroughly, this early, they're getting the teams involved properly to run the data. I really think that they're doing this the right way. and they're accepting that something isn't working. They're not trying to do what Formula One's done before, which is just put the eggs in the sand and keep plowing forward until we all come to realize

this was never going to work. You should have stopped doing this three years ago. Wonder where we've seen that before. So, yeah, no, I'm not fussed. I'm not worried. There's enough money, intelligent people, and resource. So if they're going to do this openly and honestly and up front, they can get this right.

So right now, no, I feel good. I'm all right. I'm looking forward to seeing where these changes go. Harry, I mean, arguably, if Sam's not worried, none of us have any reason to be worried, but are you concerned at all? I'm not really, really concerned, because like Sam said, we've got a little bit of time here,

but it's not the most encouraging sign for set of regulations coming in in a couple of years' time. I've seen a few, people on Twitter, one of them used to do a podcast. He used to work for a bull. He's called Blake, otherwise known as, on break, I don't know, on Twitter. Anyway, he used to do another podcast, so yellow card him.

But he used to work for Red Bull. That's what you're talking about. And he's been very concerned about his regulations, as have a couple of other people. I don't think it's not ideal how badly they seem to be testing in the sim. And I also talk about from Adrian Ui's saying that the way they'll be driven will be very strange because they need to like build up the

the uh what was it the hybrid energy but they'll be doing that by like revving really fat like revving really hard whilst they're going around slow cool and so like you're going around the low's hairpin in monaco and they're like they're like screaming through it which might sound might sound epic but i don't know it's a very strange thing to imagine um yeah it's it's a bit of an odd one uh because yeah it's quite i can't remember a time when we've had this, there might be some noises, you know,

saying that they think that the new regulations won't help, but there's, I can't remember a time when we've had these regulations are fundamentally not working at the moment, as in like you can't drive the cars.

I mean, that's quite a big problem to have. So I'm not worried because I'm confident it'll be fixed. But, yeah, while they are right now, it isn't ideal. Yeah,

I kind of landed at the same conclusion, to be honest, which is not overly concerned, but this does seem to just be a symptom of the way in which those regulations are going, particularly relating to the power unit. Like you say, 50% of power is going to be generated by the ICE and 50% is going to be generated by electrical power, by the battery. And that's complex. And because of that, like you say, driving style might need to be adjusted. And as far as I'm aware, like the chassis is, having to be built quite specifically to accommodate that quite complex power unit. And I am a little bit worried in that I don't think this will be the last of the teething issues

that we see. I imagine there will be more of them. I don't think it's the end of the world. Like you say, Sam, there's a lot of intelligent people behind this and we'll be working on this. So I think they'll get there in the end. But I can foresee this being like the first step in a few gremlin's making an appearance. I mean, we've all come out in a second, right?

that we don't want this anyway. We want biofuels that are completely renewable and going back to some kind of VTen or VA a screaming monster that goes around a race track and that would be the ideal situation. But we're not getting that right now. And there are some other parts that I really really like. They are removing DRS and there's already talks

of there being a push-to-pass system being integrated called override mode, which I think is a really cool system and it's much like Kerr's that we have previously or it has a refill or an amount of use charge. I think that's a great system. It's strategic. It provides a tactical element. And we lose DRS.

So that means we're not getting the classic oh, I'm passing before the breaking zone even happens every single lap. I also like that there might be essentially DRS zones around the racetrack that aren't called DRS zones, but they're called aerosomes, where you go back to having a form of heavy downforce

or high down force where you have to alternate it and it produces closer racing because you're stuck to certain areas. It's really interesting. It's experimental. It's different for F1. I think it could produce some fun racing if they execute it properly. Otherwise, it could be a total disaster.

I think the only thing that could possibly improve these regulations, and I know Harry's a massive fan of this, is fan boost. Oh, yeah. awful Van Dorn wins every race then. That's like that works. Shall we also have the bit where if you drive around the outside of a corner, you get an extra power boost? Don't.

I hate it. Don't. Okay, folks, saying you've heard it here first? No, to that one. we'll take our final break of this episode. On the other side, we're going to be playing F1, Order, Please. Burko Bangers in Canning. Welcome back, everyone. It's time to play.

F1, order, please. Whether it's a can of Coca-Cola or a lump of cheese, or we're ordering drivers by the size of their knees. This game is full of facts, just you wait and see. This is Formula One. Order, order, please. F-1, order, please. So there are six questions in front of me.

Sam and Harry will take it in turns to select a number, and I will select a category with four answers. All they have to do is order them in a certain way. So it could be first to last, oldest to youngest, most to least. If they get it right, they get a point. But more importantly, they get to hear John Burko saying order in a brilliant fashion. I really hope one of you gets one of these right.

Sam, start us off. What number would you like? I'll have number two, please, Ben. Number two. I'm going to give you four seasons. Mm-hmm. And I want you to tell me, from most to least, how many races were left in the season

when the driver's championship was wrapped up? Oh, for crying out loud. Okay. So you've got 2019. Right. Nineteen-2. Oh, yeah, I remember it funnly. Oh, you were 40, right?

Yeah. 2004 and 2013. Okay, most to least. Harry, I think you do quite well at this one, actually. I'm going to say, 2004, 2004, 2009, 19, 19, 92. That's so wrong. You were right about the last thing. Oh, great, good. I'm glad.

I completely forgot to mention, sorry, when I'm describing the game, that you can gain a point by stealing an answer if you want to, if the first person gets it wrong. But of course, that comes with jeopardy because you could lose a point if you also get it wrong. Harry, do you want an attempt at this? Can you remind me of the question and the dates again? Of course I can. The entire thing.

The number of races remaining in a season when the driver's championship, was wrapped up from most to least. And the options were 2019, 1999, 1992, 2004 and 2013. Okay. You're going to go for it? Four?

Yeah, go on. Thousand four being the most. Yeah. When, was it, 04, 19, 92. 13, all right. Yeah. And then, so 04, then, 04

13 1992 You mean the minuses boy no no no no no the most number of races remaining in a season

was 1992 Nigel Mansell wrapped that up very quickly yeah yeah it's hungry but of surgery to attend to um it is

it's surprising yeah he um he wrapped it with five races to go in the season. Then it was 2004, four races. Then 2013, three races and 2019 was wrapped up with two races to go. Cool. Glad I got that run. Hey, you're in the lead, mate.

Don't know what you complain about. Oh, on zero. That's a first. Harry, now is your question. What number would you like to go for? Number six, please, Ben. Number six. Four drivers from earliest to latest when they first scored points in F1.

So you've got Pierre Gazley Carlos Seins Jolian Palmer and Lanchstrol That was a name I was not expected to hear Big up Jolian When they first scored points As in how long until their career

Yeah, when the date they first scored points Yeah so not number of races Before they scored points But like the date at which they first scored The actual date Okay fine So sorry, Gassley The Gavis stroll, Palmer and Sines.

Signs. Okay. First up was Julian Palmer. Then, oh no. No. First up, Carlos Sines. Then Jury and Palmer.

Then Lance Troll. then, yeah, Gassley. Now, you have gone for a last-minute change. You were initially going to go Palmer first change to Carlos Sines. It's a good thing you did. Oh, back to zero. Love that. Yes, correct.

Yes. Spot on. Sam, what number would you like? Three. Four constructors. I just want you to order them based on how many races they've entered.

Alpha Romeo, Lola, Toro Rosso, and Arrows. Didn't imagine Barry Mangalo would pop up on this one, but her name was Lola. It's not the last time

it'll appear today, I'm sure. Oh, good. Right, I'm writing those down. Lola, Alpha Romeo, Arrows, you said. Yeah, and Toro Toro Rosso. Yeah.

And I'm assuming, for clarity, Toro Rosso, just as the name Toro Rosso. Okay. And most at least race is entered. Yes. Most Toro Rosso, second, Alfa Mayo, third, lowler, fourth arrows. That's not the correct order.

Good. Harry, would you like to try and steal? No. Fair play. Arrows of those four have had the most. they have 394 race starts. And not a lot to show for it, bless them. Torrosso with then second with 268.

Then comes Alfa Romeo on 214. And then Lola was last with 152. I wasn't far off. I just got that. We just got the one in the wrong place. Okay. Yes. Yeah, that's fine.

I'll take that. Back to you, Harry. Number five. Yeah, you can have five. Oh, you've picked my favourite one. I forgot for this as a question. Now, this is a real test. You're either going to have absolutely no idea on this, or you're going to, like, manage to find it in your brain somewhere. I'm going to give you four drivers. I want you to... Oh, this is tough. I want you to order them based on the first point they appear in the very first intro done in 2018. Oh, God.

Jog on. Jog on. That's terrible. See if you can remember. Go on then. Marcus Erickson, Fernando Alonzo, Daniel Ricardo, and Romance Grogon. That first iconic intro to the Brian Tyler music, when do they appear? I reckon Erickson... Erickson Alonzo, Grosjon, Ricardo.

That's not the correct. order. Do you want to go at this, Sam? 2018, first order, Harrison Alonzo, Grosjean, Ricardo. I don't know, the Burko bangering me says I should try it. Okay, hold on. I need to write them down. Okay, Erickson, Alonso, Grosjean, Ricardo.

Okay, Ricardo was in, he left Red Bull. for that year. He did quite well. Alonso was Alonso first, then Grosjean, then Erickson, then Ricardo. I'm afraid that's not the correct order either.

There's a logic behind that, although this was before the time that they ordered it based on the championship. Oh. Daniel Ricardo is the first face you see in that intro. So he's first. Then Marcus Erickson is kind of in that initial

bit. Then it's Grosjean. Alonzo looking mean is quite late on in that first video, so he's last. I'm quite annoyed that there was no logic to the order they put out there. None at all. Also, the music that they used to use for that, way better than what they use now. Yeah, they used to go, bum, bum, bum, bum, straight away. Yeah. Yeah. That Brian Tyler theme follows us on Twitter is sensational. I forgot about that. Sam, back to you, I think. What are my options, Ben?

One or four. Four, please. Four drivers, I want you to list them based on how many times they've finished runner-up in the Drivers' Championship. Good. So you've got Alan Prost, Gilles Villeneuve, right.

Sebastian Vettel and Ayrton Senna. Pross. Vilnerve and Vettel. Okay. Most, I'm going to say Prost, then I'm going to say Villeneuve, then I'm going to say Sena, then I'm going to say Vettel.

That's not the correct order. Tell me saying I don't know, Ben. Would you like to try and say, did lessen most question? Four drivers, from most to least, how many times they finished runner-up in the driver's championship?

So you've got Prost, Gillesville, Nerv, Vettel and Senna. Nah. He's felt what it's like to be in the minuses. He doesn't want to go back. I love it down there, mate. Yeah. Alan Prost had the most,

so four times he finished runner up in the championship. So you were right with that one, Sam. And then Vettel was next. He's finished runner up three times. Senna's finished runner up twice. And Jill Villev was runner up once. darn. Which leaves Harry Ead with number one.

What question would you like? Number one, please. Oh, very good. It's a great choice, sir. I'm going to give you four circuits. I want you to list them based on oldest to latest when they first held a race.

So you've got... So you've got Paul Ricard, Brands Hatch, Detroit, and Longest. Beach? I think Brandtatch first,

then Long Beach, Detroit, Paul Ricard. That's not the correct order. Sam, do you like one final attempt to steal? I mean,

I may as well, otherwise I've lost anyway, so I may as well do it. I'm going to say, Brans hatch first, Paul Richard, second, Detroit,

Long Beach most recently. I thought you had it. Last two the other way around. Damn. Yeah. Brandt hatched 1964. Then Paul Ricard, 1971, Long Beach, 1976,

Detroit, 1988, 1982. God, I hate order, please. I never get any right. What a game

when the score finishes as naught minus one. You know what? I'm just going to play John Burko to see us out anyway. The only reason I lost is because I played trying to steal. It's a big nil-nil, otherwise. It's a great scoreline. I tell you why, that was bad,

but I've got something really good coming up for you, everyone. In fact, no, not good. I'm underselling it. It's not good. It's the greatest segment. In all of Formula One podcasting, it is the... I'll be question of the week.

Nice. There it is. I will get that uploaded to the soundboard one day. Question of the week. As always, pop that on Instagram and Twitter. And our question this time was, what can Max Verstappen do whilst he's waiting for everyone else

at the end of a Grand Prix? And we got a lot of comments, Sam. We got so many comments. We've got more comments than likes on our Instagram post. well over 100 comments and answers to this. And the first one that's got out to me, it has zero likes, but it made me laugh.

And I almost imagine, so when I say it, the answer, think of it this way. You know Jay in the in-between is where it kind of sometimes shrugs his shoulders and says something really like, gong shalong, right?

Clee the Killer B on Instagram just goes, Rubik's Cube. I just thought that was really funny. To say his cockpit, I just do a Rubik's Cube. Easy, isn't it? I'd do it.

Easy. That's so Maxwell Stapper that you just knock out a remix key before the next person crosses the line. There are some interest, so I just saw an answer. I'm definitely not reading it. There was some good,

but I mean, some of the most liked ones. I don't know if that's the same one as I've just seen, but it sounds like it probably is. I've gone past it now. I won't name and shame. We'll talk about it off air. I do like this one from Olly Emerson

that says, update Harry's F on Fantasy 10. him. Yep. He needs the help he could get. Yeah, fair. Leave a five-star review, which, yep, you should.

Definitely. Get nine women pregnant. Oh, that's what I laughed at. That was, oh, okay. Now I'm intrigued. Bristol Liam comes out of this banger, subscribe to Patreon. He would spend a good minute

being surprised at just how cheap it is. He thought it was going to be hundred pounds, but it wasn't. Comment from Zach, we are checking. Yeah. classic, nice Ferrari reference there. Enjoy that.

Also, there's a few pancake waffles, I like, bananas, references. Niche. Niche from a company. Why did we say that again? I can't even remember. I said that Toto Wolf could come out and say absolutely anything he wants to in the media,

but until the car gets good, it literally doesn't mean anything. Yes, like pancakes, Waffles, I like bananas, yes, that was like. Yeah, there's a lot of those. There's a few people just suggesting that it fills in for me. One of them is even someone I know, so thank you for that, Claudia. Bruce is very kind of you. Very kind. Savage. Matt said, drink a can of

carving. Well, you'd have to get in touch of Northern George for he is our supplier. Sounds dodgy. You know, when there's so many answers that I can't kind of see the wood through the trees. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's so many good ones. I keep going, oh, that one. Actually, go that one. Oh, actually, maybe this one. And that keeps happening. to me. Pre-portioned the gammon out for the after-race meal with Barry Manolo. Just, Max Verstappen and Barry Manilow, tuck it into a pre-portion gammon. And then John Boy, who's out on Twitter is Otmar's ninth child, comes in with singer duet with Barry Manilow.

The amount of love Barry Manilow gets from this podcast. He'll never know, will he. Each has not paying us, really. Yeah. Any others? There were so many. Oh no, there were. Sign up to the Patreon is always a great shout, though.

So thank you to the amount of you that said that. Well, that's a nice segue to your outro, Sam. That is a nice way to segue to the outro, because obviously there's so many of these. Oh, we've just had this one. Last minute entry from Ryan who said, jump on Discord to submit his moment of the race, which you can also do if you join the Discord.

Oh, thank you. Plots for free. Yeah, points for free there. You can. Patreon is available. It's fantastic value, and we're really proud of the content we make. Every single month you will get a bill of breaking episode,

you get a historic review episode that you can vote for to what race we watch. And we also get birthday shoutouts on the top tier, which we're going to do this weekend, and I won't forget. And you also get two normal episodes, and everything, everything is advert free. So that's always fun, isn't it?

Lots of good stuff on there. Please go check it out. It massively supports this show. If you can't check out, you know, you can't financially afford it, times are tough. Or you just think, actually, and quite happy to listen to the normal show.

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I've been a jack with Atoe. I don't remember. Keep breaking life. Take their coat off. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.