The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Will Adrian Newey join ASTON MARTIN next year?!

Episode Date: August 18, 2024

Note: you may notice a slight dip in audio quality based on this episode not being recorded in our usual set up. Thank you for your understanding. The LB boys are here to round off the summer break with the latest in F1 news from Newey's heavily rumoured move to Aston Martin, Ferrari's bouncing problem, a change to the sporting code, and Briatore's comments on Alpine's lineup. They finish with a game of Pump the Brakes... >>> Tickets are now on public sale for our LIVE SHOW in Austin TX! CLICK HERE to buy now or for more info!

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. As of right now, Sunday 18th of August. Tickets for our live show in Austin, Texas are on general sale. Join us Thursday 17th of October, Peach Social House in North Austin. We'll record our preview episode for the United States Grand Prix. And stick around afterwards as well.

have a chat with us and fellow F1 fans. You also get a free drink with your ticket. I would absolutely advise acting quickly to avoid any disappointment. The link to purchase tickets is in this episode's description and you can find all the details there. Can't wait to see as many of you as possible. On with the show. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. I don't even know how to win. I can't tell you what we've been through as a team over the last hour.

Harry is in the same house as us, but upstairs. I've had to record an iPad, and I was on my phone and on the sofa and I'm not, and now we're together sharing a mic. It's absolute kerfuffle. Harry, you're right out there? Yeah, if you're watching this, I'm currently sat in the room Ben normally sits in, which is very strange. It looks odd on camera because I'm up here on my own, but I'm up here

banished as punishment for forgetting the necessary cables we needed. So this is very, very fair. We might swap up through the show. I don't know. Maybe we should each do a stink, one section up in your little chair. Honours, it's taken us so long to get to this point.

We do not need to mess with the formula at all. I actually just realized I left my bottle downstairs, so I might nip down to get that offence. We have your hydration prisoner. Oh, God. Okay. We've managed to get through the technical issues, and we do actually have some F1 to talk about Harry's off already to go and get his water bottle.

Here you go, mate. Cheers. Coming up on today's episode, we're talking about new powers for stewards, courtesy of Mohammed Ben-Suliam. We've got comments from Briatore about the 2025 lineup for Al-Pim. The bouncing horses of Ferrari, not necessarily prancing this year, our thoughts on some comments from Charlotte-Claer. But we're going to start with a bit of a rumor about Adrian Newey. Of course, Adrian Newey went, announced he was leaving Red Bull back in May.

And it's been a bit of a speculative time, hasn't it, to work out exactly where he's going? Aston Martin, seemingly in a good spot at the moment. There are some rumblings that maybe they are best positioned to sign him. How big of a move would that be? I'm really surprised that Ascombe have emerged, the front runners in this colossal landmark signing in Formula One to steal Adrian Nui from Red Bull. And I feel like the only reason we've heard,

actually not from the man himself, so why he doesn't want to go to somewhere like Ferrari is because it's not in the UK and he's quite happy in his little UK base that he's got. But this is a coup. If Aston Martin Martin Rue could pick up Adrian Nui and they've got Fernando Olaanthor at the helm, they pick up a lot of other key staff, a lot of areas.

They've got all this investment going into this new factory, the wind tunnel, everything. They're set themselves up for a long-term future in Formula One and hopefully one that creates success because all the money in the world, they aren't moving up the table right now. They are certainly not. What do you think, Harry?

Do you think there's a chance that happens? How big would that be for us to mind if they can get Nubi on board? I think it'd be a huge signing and given that they've already got his protege in the shape of Dan Fallows. He's been there for a few years now. it's like getting the dream team back together somewhat for those two.

So it would be a big coup. It will be another statement, you know, of intent from Astor Martin if they can't get this. And yeah, like you say, not that they're not a big team because they are pretty big. They're a manufacturer technically. But to sort of steal Adrian Newey under the nose as a Ferrari, which seemed like the most likely option for him to go to, it would be a bit of, a big coup as you say Sam so yeah if they can pull it off that so that's gonna be very interesting and I get the impression that Adrian Nui just goes it doesn't necessarily go to teams

for you know their history I think he just goes to places where he like wants to work with a driver and he said before he's wanted to work with Alonzo and never had the chance to maybe this is maybe this is what he wants to do just have one last chance to work with Fernando Alonzo before he well, I'd say before he retires, Alonzo's never retiring, but before he maybe retires one day. I mean, Red Bull's a great example of what you've just said, right? He goes there in 2006. They had no success at that point. They were still a couple of years from winning a Grand Prix. So I think the point about him not necessarily wanting to go to a winner is true. And that's essentially what all of these teams will be doing and have been doing for the last few months,

is working out what is the ideal pitch to secure Adrian Newey's service. And it's not the same for every single individual in F1. It's, you know, is it, is it money? Is it titles? Is it the prospect of titles? Is it, you know, is it a challenge? Is it non-F1 related projects possibly? So many of these things, they're all going to be factors in one way or another,

but it's just working out how much importance, newie places on each one of those. And I think Aston Martin, even though, again, they're not set in the world of light right now in terms of performance, they can tick some boxes. Like money probably not going to be an issue. I dare say Papa Stroll might delve into his deep pockets. Got a few pennies down the back of the sofa, right? I think there's one or two pennies to secure services. So I don't think they'll struggle there.

You mentioned Dan Fallows already, Harry. I think that's a great plus for Astor Martin over other teams. And Dan Fallows himself has said that he would be more than willing to work with Adrian Newe. And who knows? I mean, there's the prospect as well with some side. projects at Aston Martin, where maybe those opportunities wouldn't be for other teams. So I can understand this from Aston Martin's perspective. I still think it's up in the air.

But if he can help create an additional frontrunner based on what we've currently got, that's great. I think you're right by stating that the side projects are actually quite important to him in his later stage of his career. He's done a lot in Formula One, but incredibly successful. He clearly loves this part of the UK, spent a long of time here. And we've seen his projects already with the Valkyrie, for example, working on the hypercar. And obviously, Asken Martin are moving more into that feel, which makes a lot of sense.

He enjoys that side of racing and car creation. He's also big into his boats, right? And the UK is so massive on sailing and boat building that it makes sense for him to be here as well, because that's another side passion of his. So in your later stages, when you are this successful, you've got to look for a little bit more than just, oh, I might pick up another trophy. And I think he's going to be quite fulfilled if you go somewhere like Ashton Martin.

Yeah, I think so. In terms of it, if Adrian Newee can help contribute to Aston Martin getting somewhere near the front, Harry, based on McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, they're all sort of there or thereabouts. I don't know, there's the potential there for the next era of F1 if he can help add another team into that mix. Could be quite exciting.

Can I speak, you imagine we've got five teams in that. that makes almost half the grid um that is half the grid sorry uh that would be excellent but yeah are you you'd hope he it's going to be difficult because he's he's still on gardening leave the impact you'd actually have on 2026 is probably going to be minimal you probably looking at 2027 anyway um but even so to have another team hopefully in that mix would be would be really good for really good for f1 especially you know we saw the positive impact we last year and astin martin were there obviously the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari were there less so. But having another big name in the mix is only going to be a good thing for F1,

especially with a new rule change. And this is, I know it's less reliant aerodynamics that this rule change in terms of what they can do. But, you know, Adrian U is going to make a difference wherever he goes or whatever the rule changes are. So, yeah, it could be good. And I don't think you're wrong with that, but I feel like Adrian Newe is the type of person where he will go all Michael Jordan on this, like, and then I took it personally. Like, aerodynamics aren't going to be that important.

Yeah, I'm going to take that personally and just dunk a second on all of you. Like that's, that would be... When something's not important, that's the place where you make it important, right? If nobody else is focusing on it, you go, it's time to find. Yeah, it's just, yeah, imagine going up to Adrian Nuis. Ah, the arrow's not going to be all that important. He's like, at that point, next four years of his life dedicated to point, he's not. proving you wrong. I don't need an engine. I'll use the wind to be faster than you.

If anyone could. Any chance for Stappen follows him? Oh, that's... No, no. I don't think so. I'm actually a little bit nervous about this move to Ascent Martin, because as we've already mentioned, they've got people like Dan Fallow's really working there, they're putting so much time and money already. We're not seeing any results. We're not seeing Ascent Master to come with anything, you know, genius creation-wise, they're not being innovative, they're not doing anything brand new we haven't seen already before. I know that Adrian Nui is a bit of a god of seeing air particles. I don't know if he's going to have such a dramatic effect on their development,

but actually we're going to see a whole revolutionised car within the first three or four years. And at that point, I think he might be retiring. I think it's maybe got five or six years left in him. It's a lot to transform. This is a pretty tough project. And they haven't really been moving forward in the way they wanted to up to this point. I think they're too far away from staffing to commit. I think if he's going anywhere, Toto Wolf gets out the pump and nickel and they join themselves

or another nice little brecky at Mercedes. Maybe the pumpernickel will be the deciding factor. Vastappen to Astin, Harry, that seems about right. I mean, sure, given how this year's driver market's been flying about, why not add that into the mix? Yeah, I mean, if Mercedes isn't going to happen, maybe that's where he wants to have his next project. And it wouldn't be, he's not going to make that move now

because that team is locked in. But it seems like a post-Fenando-alonzo plan, right? get Max Vistapp and lined up for that because it's a good person to replace. I want to see that, please. Could you imagine that team? The world would explode. I'm not sure anyone could cope with that team.

I mean, I'd love to see it, but I would hazard a guess this is more of a post-al-onzo retirement plan. That is if he actually does retire, which, you know, he's still going now. What's he for? 42 so but yeah it'd be another coup

and you know that if Adrian Newee is going that's a big a big a big when it was being touted that he was going to Ferrari

a lot of people were saying well is this why Hamilton signed did he have some Intel on that if this is if that's not the case he's going to ask him that's

that would be a good sign for Stappan to go because famously he's done quite well in Adrian new design cars so that is trend might continue on that one.

I like to think that the only way Fernando Alonzo steps aside into retirement is if he gets the agreement from Lauren Strull to take over his team principal. That's the only way he agrees to it is Vestappan will be my driver. Yeah, Lance, you've been promoted, you've done a great job, you're going to run the whole team. Don't just try for it, you run it. Well, thanks, son. Are you winning, son? I are you winning, son.

I think there is a chance that he follows him. there. I don't think... That's a long social replacement or alongside, realistically. I don't know. I think 2026 is an option. I don't think the next year is, but

yeah, Vastappen is, we give Vestappen a lot of praise for various things, but we maybe don't give him enough praise for the fact that I think he is very switched on. He's a smart guy and he knows what's up with Red Bull at the moment. He sees the departures.

And I think the way that he is, he won't hesitate to leave if he thinks it's the right move for him. And who knows? I mean, maybe Adrian Newey, it's almost not just the Adrian Newey hire. It's almost the Newey hire and what that signifies. Like, if that is then the door to get others in because it's such a landmark signing, then maybe that could be the encouragement. But it is an odd one because you do have a double world champion in one. seat and then a guy who they won't replace in the other seat.

So it's maybe not as fluid as some other teams. Yeah, I think Lance Stroll is such a sticking point for Ascent Martin. You know what? I don't even blame them. If I was a billionaire dad and I could put my son in a racing car and every weekend we got to spend time together and do drive fast in things and go around corgars at a great time and get out the car and go, that was fun, wasn't it, son? And I go, yeah, dad, thanks for a really good time.

I love this. Bob and I don't care. That's great. I'm just enjoying myself with my kid. And he's a rich dad, so why not? Focus that way. Yeah, that's fair enough. So first topic on today's episode, we have confirmed that Vestappen and Nui are going to Aston Martin.

You don't get breaking news anywhere else. I don't remember confirming that. Oh. Let's just say it will happen, and then when it doesn't, we'll just pretend this episode never existed. We'll go to break now because that was so seamless. On the other side, we'll be chatting like alert. Welcome back. Some chat on Ferrari now, because Charlerc has recently had some comments about

the car's struggles since they introduced some upgrades earlier on the season. This is what he had to say. From Spain onwards, I think this was the turning point where we brought something on the car, which the numbers, as I've always said, were there. However, it induced quite a lot of bouncing that we've been struggling with. And on my side specifically, I went very aggressive in the last four races we've set up, especially trying to find solutions for that. Whenever you have a car that is bouncing, for example, you can't go too close to the limit because the car is doing more unpredictable things and you've got to keep more margin, which is something that I know is not my approach. And so I'm always going to pay a little bit more of the price whenever these things happen.

Is the bouncing costing them as much as everyone seems to think it is? Two things have sprung to mind. First, for the comics were both drivers when they talked about these upgrades coming to place. It was going to wipe the gap clean between themselves and Red Bull. Oh, yeah. That hasn't happened. Gap has got bigger.

The other thing that's brings to mind is I imagine Lewis Hamilton has read that interview and gone, oh, no, no, no, my back. I don't think I can take any more of this from the Mercedes bouncing. Because Hamilton's back. The poor boy can barely get out the car as it is. He doesn't need any other bouncing horse to get on.

Yeah, I think this is the problem. If they're not stable, we know that Charlotte Clear is an overdriver. He used to feel very comfortable in his car, very at one with the car, and otherwise he pushes too much, actually ends up losing time. And he's been doing a fantastic job up until this point of the season so far. And Carlos Science has been driving the car well, not fantastically, but well, but I would imagine that if LeCle was incredibly comfortable in that car and he was able to extract everything he felt good about it, he would be much closer to the front on a regular basis. When you're unsettled, and we saw this with how Hamilton dealt with it in 2022 with all the

experimenting he was doing, it never felt comfortable for him. And a driver as good as Hamilton can't maximize it. I believe that a driver's goose to Claire can't maximize it. I wouldn't be surprised that once they saw out the stability of the car with the upgrades, we might start to see some Ferrari performance come back. What do you think, Gary? It's so Ferrari.

The bouncing issues haven't been a thing for what, two years now? And yet Ferrari have the bouncing issues again. So this it's a little bit worrying that this is happening. happen because I mean it's also if they sort the bouncing out and the upgrades still don't work then they've got nowhere to hide so that shards really pated them into a corner with this one is all the bouncing guys it's nothing else um but yeah the fact that these upgrades have have induced these uh these bouncing issues again it's a bit of a worry for fry because you know that's something we saw in the early year the first year of uh of uh of these new regulations but not really since and and ferrari seemed to have this problem so Yeah, I mean, if it is true, I hope it is true because, you know, it was good having them properly in the fight as well.

They're sort of there or thereabouts but not haven't been for several races now. If they can get back in the fight, it'd be great. Whether they can actually mount a challenge, I don't know, but the Claire's only 20 points off Norris. That's not far away from what we're calling the title fight. So, you know, if they can sort it, it would take some bad luck, I think, on the parts of Vestappen and Norris. but maybe LeClaire could be the one fighting. And constructors wouldn't take a lot of them to get back in the mix either. So, yeah, I mean, I hope they're on holiday, so they can't be.

But I hope they're working hard at Maranello to work out why it's bouncing. Please, please, Ferrari. I feel like all points about Ferrari end with one of us saying, please, Ferrari. Please do something good. Free that man. Free LeCla. Yeah, I can believe it's costing them a great deal,

because, I mean, based on where they were, that they were competitive before they brought in these upgrades. I'd say upgrades very loosely. But it would be, I agree with you, Harry. I think they should hope that it is the bouncing and only the bouncing. But if that is the case, that is crushing because they could and should have been in the mix for a large number of races. Now, you mentioned, you know, the gap they had to Red Bull and how these upgrades were supposed to eliminate that gap. Red Bull have done half the work for Ferrari. They're not the team to beat anymore.

No, they've brought themselves back to the pack. And Ferrari couldn't even meet Red Bull halfway by introducing some upgrades that sort of worked. They just haven't worked whatsoever. So if the true upgrade would have actually seen them be very competitive, be at the front of the field, they could be winning both championships. Do you think if they can resolve it, they can challenge?

So what do you need to see from them in the next, say, two races? I think Lecler needs to be back on the front row, if I'm honest. I think wherever Norris is, I think Lecleron needs to be right next to him. I'm not sure they need to be the outright, the best car to show that they're progressing, but they need to not be, you know, oh, we've got Red Bull, we've got Mercedes, we've got McLaren. Oh, there's Ferrari and then Asimars here behind them. They need to be directly in that mix. They need to be scoring pogims regularly.

The results get to flow back in. By the second race after the summer break, they need to be back up there, you know, both cars in the top fours. starting definitely a car fighting for wings on a regular basis. They haven't got long left this championship now. It will come down very, very rapidly. The points will start to dry up. They have to make their moves as soon as possible as I think it's going to be gone. I think drivers is too far gone.

If they get it right, constructors is a stretch, but I don't think it's impossible. What do you think, Harry? Do you need to see something from them like out the gates in Zamvort to think they have a chance? It's going to have to be, isn't it? Like I said, they need that and some bad. like for the likes of Stappan and Norris or Red Bull and McLaren

because yeah it's very tight to them or at least it was before the summer break performance of the of the top teams are very very tight and there's little opportunity

to regain those points unless you unless yeah they come out the gate swinging and yeah there aren't I know we're pretty much half or just over half away but there aren't that many races

to try and make up this gap that they've got so it's it's no good the upgrades finally working in, I don't know, when we get to Cota, that would be, I mean, great for us to watch it, obviously, because we'll be there. But yeah, they need to start working straight away.

Yeah, I agree with you. And if it was a head-to-head battle with Red Bull or a head-to-head battle with McLaren, then it might be different. And maybe they would have a little bit more time. But they're not only relying on themselves fixing these issues quickly. They're relying on two teams, not making those same or similar games.

Arguably, Mercedes and now the team is well to beat. The worst part for Ferrari is another Kempis being introduced in the field while they've been slipping back. It's not like they just have to catch up to McCrown and Red Bull again. There's now another two cars in the way they've got to try and beat, which arguably might be the fastest of a lot now. And it is fascinating that we have got 14 out of 24 races into this season. We've got 10 to go.

And realistically, I think at least, Ferrari in the Constructors' Championship could finish first, second, third and fourth. Like, I think they are all in play. I think it's probably most likely they finish third and then maybe fourth and then maybe second then maybe first. Again, it depends on what they do. But equally, there's still so much to fight for in that top four. So I don't think it's impossible.

I think it's in play that they could challenge if they do fix these issues and it has to be pretty much straight away. They've got the line up for it, right? I think they do. They do have the line up. Something that seems to be really evident with these current regulations is that upgrades don't seem to do their job.

This is a just a Ferrari issue. This is a running issue across the entire grid. The amount of times we've heard or we put upgrades on, oh, actually we've had to go back or we've gone back to the old spec. You know, Hars have done it

with last year with Holgerberger Magnuson running different cars. Aston Martin. They start from the pit lane when they changed the entire car setup again. So was running one, the strolls running another.

Mercedes have had the side pole issue. They don't know what they're meant to be doing with does it work? Doesn't it work? The upgrades are causing more bouncing. They have to change the setups again.

The amount of times R.B. is another one that's had failures already this year with upgrades. It's so odd to see so many a team struggling to actually produce useful and progressive upgrades for their car. It's quite interesting. Unrelated, but since you brought up

Mercedes and their side pod, have you seen Alex Alburn's sickest burn of the time? Oh my God. I'm not aware of the burn. It was a Grill the Grid episode and they're doing a challenge of basically they're presented with a photo

and you have to spot what the issue is with the photo and the image is just like the like a barring when they do all of the cars and all of the drivers. And Alex Albert just goes, no side pods. I thought it was very, very good. Is that the one where Pierre Gasol, he doesn't realize that it's the London Grand Prix on? Yes. Is it too big?

It's like, mate, what are you about? Yes. Same video. Yeah. Right. What were your thoughts on like LeCleur's comment specifically, Harry, about his approach to the issue because it does seem similar to what Hamilton might have done a couple of years ago. Is that the right way to approach it?

I think so. I mean, LeClaire's been very, very consistent despite, I guess, his issues. I guess it's different to Hamilton in that he's not had to endure it for the entirety of the years, only from what you say, Spain onwards that they've had this problem. But I think it's the right way to go about it to try and find some different solutions. to resolve it basically. Yeah, like I say, it's not as extreme, I guess as Hamilton was having to do.

But so far, it's not really hard. I mean, LeClaude's been very impressive, so it's not exactly harmed. He's kept himself in play somewhat with whatever he's doing. Yeah, I think it's the right approach. In this situation, because it's almost like you either work around the issues

and you're not winning a championship or you at least go out and try and push the boundaries. If it doesn't work, you're in the same spot of not winning the champion. I don't think LeCler is the type of driver that he's going to be bothered whether he finishes fourth in the driver's championship or third. If there's a shot at a championship, he's going to give it a go. So I think it's the right approach. I think Hamilton and LeCleur are oddly quite similar, actually.

I think they're both these gentle giants in the sport. They like to keep to themselves. And when it comes to driving the car, they need to feel very, comfortable in their car to extract the most from it. I think the clothes are in the right thing. He's sitting there's a problem that I technically can't solve because it's the upgrade on the car. I can't change that. I have to deal with it. So what is in my control that I can alter and adjust and trial with to try and get the most of it where I do feel comfortable where I know I produce the best results. And I think what he said is very refreshing and very open to go.

I've had problems with overdriving the car before. I've had issues where I'm not comfortable I don't extract what I need to out of the car. So I'm doing my best to get myself in a place where I can be as productive as I can be on the racetrack. And I think for the most part, we're seeing that come to light. Yeah. And obviously we're talking about LeCler very specifically here because it was his quote. But LeCler and Sines points-wise, not much, in it?

Like, they're very similar. Yeah, I think Sites is having a little bit of a downward turn of form comes to the mid part of the season. But when I say downward turn, it's just very all right. And all right isn't bad in a car that is tricky to drive. Lecler is just excelling. Yeah. I think you can make a case for both Lecler

and signs this year having been top six drivers. Something like that. And that's where they are in the standings. Yeah, sure. Right, let's take our second break on this episode. On the other side, we've got some comments from Mohammed Ben-Suliam. Those are my favourite comments. Mubuz.

FIA President Mohammed Ben-Sulliam has urged stewards to use new powers to penalise competitors who make negative comments about the sports officials. Ben Suleum said the FIA is making another revision to the International Sporting Codes Regulations on misconduct. This is what he had to say. As part of our ongoing fight against online abuse, recent investigations have shown that there is a direct link between negative comments from drivers and team members and increased hate directed towards officials on social media. At the last World Motorsport Council, members approved a change to the definition of misconduct within the IAC. the change will ensure further support for the FIA officials and volunteers who dedicate their time to improve our sport. Our stewards must be prepared to show strength when combating this form of abuse,

and they have my full support and the support of our international sporting code when making their decisions. What do you think about this one, Sam? Hate, hate, hate, loathe entirely. This honestly is ridiculous. They're talking like they're getting bullied by the drivers. It's not going, oh, Mr. Skew. You're overweight and you're losing your hair. Ha, ha, ha.

And then everyone's Twitter's going. Ha, ha, stewards are overweight. No one's doing that. Not a single person is saying that. It's not personal. Make good decisions. Get good credit. They're allowed to say this isn't being managed well.

I don't agree with the decision. I don't think this has happened in the right way. No one's going. Stupid steward. You're an idiot. Not a one driver speaks like that. They might disagree. It's a free world.

We have free speech. That's one of the great things about F1 that you can speak. your mind, I think this is awful. I think they are closing the mouths of the drivers because they basically don't be told that they're doing a bad job. And how many times with this podcast have we said, decision doesn't make sense. It's inconsistent.

Doesn't go in line with what they've done previously in the season itself. The driver disagrees with it. Overreaction. Based on damage rather than the actual offence. So many problems have been brought up with the lack of ruling and lack of consistency. That's fine. You can give criticism. As long as it is constructive and you show where to build with that,

no one is just slacking off these stewards because they don't like the way they look or their race or their sexuality. That never happens. Literally, I agree with all those points. You shouldn't slacking off of those things, but no one is doing that. So this just feels like a way to go. We don't like being told we're bad at our jobs. What do you think, Eric?

Right. In principle, obviously, we don't want bullying to, you know, bullying or inappropriate comms directed towards anyone who works in the FIA because at the end of the day, they are human. But yes, Sam was right. This isn't about that. this is about they don't want they don't want the drivers to call out when the

decisions are stupid which at the moment most of the time they're stupid and they need to be called out on them so yeah I look the actual principle of it yeah I can get on board with but I just don't think that's what this is for and it's a slippery slippery slope

if you're going to start punishing drivers again if a driver is like picking calling someone out and calling them you know an inappropriate name or word fair enough, they might deserve some punishment. But calling out their decisions if they're wrong or at the moment

just inconsistent and not seeming to be based on anything apart from vibes, then yeah, they should, anyone shouldn't be punished for that. So I don't like this. It's a, we're getting into a dodgy, dodgy grey area of ruling and, you know, governing

a sport. You called it a slippery slope, which, not that you can confirm this, because my handwriting is so awful, but the first two words I've written down... Is that what that says, slippery slope? It looks like it says sloppy jobs. It is also a sloppy job, to be fair. Goodness me, okay. I don't get it.

What's hilarious? Move on. No, nothing. Yeah, we don't obviously want to be in a world where officials are, you know, are being, we don't want what you said, but I agree. I don't think it's happening. Certainly not from the drivers and team members. And I think there is a key differentiation between having a go at the stewards

and having a go at the stewards decisions. Like, I've got no problem whatsoever with drivers and team members complaining about stewarding decisions if they don't agree with them. because, as you say, it happens all the time, and we need to maintain that free speech in this sport. Like, there was an incident, and I think this was the last time it was revised, but there was an incident Abu Dhabi last year.

Was it Perez? It was Perez, yes, where he said, stewards are a joke. Yeah. And I remember saying at the time, I still think it now, in an ideal world, I wish he had said the stewarding is a joke.

And I know it sounds so similar, but there's a difference between the stewards are a joke and the stewarding is a joke. So again, though, that's ideal world. Should we really be penalising drivers like Perez in that situation where he is driving at 200 miles an hour speaking in his second language? Like that just seems that seems mad to be. Of course, there's, it's difficult to regulate it exactly like this word is fine,

this word isn't, this tone is fine, this tone isn't. But there's got to be some common sense. And that sort of thing, I do not understand how penalties can be handed out. If the rule is you can't get personal, fine. Totally respect that. That is completely, that's fine. We should all be like that. If the rule is, you're talking about decisions being made

and the rules that are currently in place, there should be no issue with that. That should be talked about all day long if they want to. Yeah. And I am worried as well that they are going to use this as a crutch to. Yeah. Oh, you don't like, you've got 10 seconds and take a five, and you moaned about it.

Have another five grade grip penalty for next race. I'll see another one. Of course you do. Cheers, DeVina. Let's move on to some comments from Flavio Priatore. It's big gets better than this, doesn't it? Big Briatore, here he is. And he's had some comments about the 2025 lineup.

So he had the following to say, at the moment, you need to put the team together from the commercial side, the technical side, the management side. The driver makes no difference now. The difference will be in 2026, 27, 28. In 26, this is great. in 2026, I believe we see the new Alpine. It won't be called it anymore.

Yeah, it's new Alpine because nothing about the car has anything to do with Alpine. Just a new team. Yeah. What do you think, Harry? Do you think that the driver line up is a little bit more irrelevant for the next year whilst they try and put some things in place? Right. I don't think this...

Do you remember we've said before that the only thing that was really working at Alping was a driver lineup and then they got rid of it. I feel like Flavio Bria Toro is just trying to be like covering up the fact that they've absolutely fumbled losing as to Man Ockon. I reckon he's coming and go, why did you do that? Why have you, Bruno, mate? Well, you won't say that now because he's gone as well.

Flavio's in the home. Olly Oaks, he's, why have we done this? Ollie Oaks, goodnessly. Can we get the style of the year? Can we get the theme song that plays every time we say it? Oh. Yes. Good idea.

Goodness me. but this just feels like yeah they're covering up for a bad call I understand what's trying to say they've got a lot of things to sort but there'll be opportunities where you need a good driver lineup like that's still a solid thing you need to have and just saying well it doesn't matter for now because we're that bad we're going to be that bad next year as well it doesn't matter what drivers have gone to the car

but imagine you're Pierre Gasley just sounded like going you are not important Pierre You mean nothing Oh, poor Pierre This is just This is just fluff Flavio is talking absolute fluff

Fluff? Fluffy I can't believe this I completely agree with him Flavio Briotori that is Wow You agree with Fluffy Flavio And the Briotori brothers Which is a great bang-hand

No yeah, I completely agree with him What's the point of having a great driver line up or a good driver line up or a bad driver line up, if you can't get past ninth in the Constructors' Championship. Unfortunately, Formula One to work where you need to have the tech underneath you to have any impacts in the sport. You can have Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton

at their prime driving around in that Alpine. They might still get two points of race. You know, it doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter. You have to get the team in a better place. Culture, it needs to be okay. You need people to not be running for the hills every time they're seeing a Malpian actually wants to work there.

They need to understand the regulations better. They just stop shoving lard under the hood of the engine and weighing the car down. Honestly, it needs to be fixed. The drivers, yes, of course, I think Pierre will agree. I think PS will go, if you're going to fix this and that's your priority, fine, I'll take a step back. I'll let you get on with it. I won't known and you're going to actually do something about it.

I think Flavio is entirely correct. There's no point driving around in a car that is broken. Otherwise, you know, you could be Michael Schumacher all day you want. You never winning anything. Yeah, you can basically just get what Alpine are this year, which is they do have a solid lineup this year, and it doesn't matter. They could, you know, if they had an awful lineup, they are maybe dropping a few points. If they had an amazing lineup, maybe they get another five, ten.

But it's not going to change much, is it? They aren't losing out on race wins because of their driver lineup. So I think there is a solid point in there. What I would say is, why they're not mutually exclusive? Sorry, they are mutually. Like, why, I understand putting more emphasis on getting all of those other things he put in place. But there's no reason why you can't do both. Yeah, I've got to sacrifice one for the other.

If they are really struggling that badly, that they don't have enough people to do the jobs, that it feels like that might be. But, yeah, I don't understand, like, you can get a good driver at the same time as building up the commercial team. Like one does not impact the other. It's a very fair point. I don't know, maybe as well. It sounded like it might be opening the door for it will be doing next year. Do you think he's going?

We don't believe it doing that much. But if we sign him now, it's okay. I feel, yeah, I feel like it's Flavio Briatore's quite harsh way of saying that Jack Dewan can have a proper rookie year because it's not going to matter all that much if he's not on the ball straight away. In that case, that's quite clever. I respect the fact that they want to protect Jack doing and let him have a year in a car that's rubbish

and not put the pressure on him. Flavio, as much as he was an interesting individual, he was always quite good at managing certain drivers. Hence why he's still with one of the most chaotic of all time in Fernando Alonso. He is good at understanding those personalities. He is very clever. He does like to step outside the box,

maybe sometimes to his own detriment. But hey, if this works for a young driver, I'm all for it. He managed Nelson Peké very well. Famously well. Very well indeed. I'll be real. Has he been a good manager to Alonso?

Look at Alonso's career choices. He said, well. He wanging endurance as well. Flavio's part of that. Yeah, true, I guess. Hey, McLaren Honda was great. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah, that was all Flavio.

Also, I know he doesn't say this as well. well. I know 2025 might not be a massively important year for the driver contributing, but it is going to be a valuable year in terms of experience for 2026. Like regardless of whether it's due or an established driver, we have seen times where drivers take a little while to get adjusted to the team and the car. That's useful time in the car next year to then build for 26 if they are magically better than where they are right now. Yeah, we've seen it happen in a positive way for some drivers.

Russell is the biggest one that springs to mind with the fact that he spent obviously those three seasons in Williams. I do think that massively helped him when he moved over to Mercedes. But equally, we've seen it not helped some people at all. You remember Hart when they were putting around at the back with Schumacher and Mazapin. Yeah, Schumacher was okay. Mazepin was never good, but they never got any better. They never got good. And I don't think that year in the back of the grid where they just got to have time in the car really massively benefited them. So hopefully doing it's more of the Russell style than the Schumacher Mazepin style. You excited for the new Alpine, Harry?

Oh, I can't wait. Is it going to have any colour on it? He didn't confirm one way or the other. Okay. I can't wait to see what it is. Yeah, the new Alpine in 2026. I'm sorry, I'm very skeptical that it's going to be turned around in one year's time. What are you basing that off, everything they've ever done?

Yeah. I've used prior experiences with Alpine and I'm going to suggest they're not going to be a new Alpine by 2026 unless they're called Renault or Benetton. Yeah, maybe they go back to Benetton. Or Tolman. I don't know, there's a good chance we get a new Alpine but I don't know if it'll be better.

New doesn't always been good. No. It will be, he's probably referencing the fact that engines wise, they're probably not going to be staying. with their own engines. Again, it doesn't mean it's better, it'll be new. It feels like the most catastrophic failure of any car ever.

You can't use your own engines that you built. Is that not the most demoralizing thing for road customers of that company? And that is at the end of the day, the main point of being in this sport is to sell your cars. Yeah. Still, it's looking like Mercedes.

Has to be right. Yeah. I've seen a few Alpeen Ferrari. Could you imagine Alpine Ferrari? That's just, that is a match made in hell. Like, never get an engine in the car. Nothing would ever work.

More than it already doesn't work. But yeah, Mercedes still seemingly the best option, Harry, outside of not taking an option. No, the best option is keep your engine. I mean, yeah, like I said before, they've had prior one year, I guess, but prior experience of working with Mercedes when they were Lotus in 2015.

So, yeah, I guess that's the best option. The engine department is still, it's always been strong on Mercedes, despite the struggles they've had, big up, Kirin Shopland. But he, yeah, I just, it baffles me. It baffles me that this is even a discussion point for Alpine. You have engines, your own engines. Good luck, Oli. Go to Peugeot.

Renaud Perci. Yeah, I'm sure they'll love that in France. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm interested to see what other turns that story takes. It's not done yet. We'll take our final break at this point on the other side. We're pumped as a brakes. From back, everyone.

Last part of today's episode is, again, we haven't played in a very long time. Pump the brakes. I'm not actually next to the soundboard like I normally would be, so we can't actually give any bad opinions and be gunged. That would just be too difficult. Sam's now working on the intro. It will probably be under PTB. No, that's the gunge.

We haven't even said anything yet. That's fair. Go. I mean, that's the old one. Sure. We'll take it. We'll take it at this point. Pump the brakes.

each of us are going to give an opinion. It's a very simple game because the other two of us will then say whether that opinion is a good opinion. We usually make them fairly controversial or at least not what you would expect. And then if both of the other people say, that is a terrible opinion, stop thinking that. That's when the gunge music that we've already heard makes an appearance. Dave Benson Phillips hasn't been paid in a very long time. I think he's left.

To the point where I'm sure most listeners don't even. even remember where that even came from. So, Harry, you said you had one and then you forgot it. Have you remembered it? I've remembered it. Don't worry, guys. My pun on the brakes. And I guess there's like a follow-up about the amount of races we have. My problem of breaks is F1 is F1 is more, I don't know, enticing.

Not sure what the right word is. But it's better, basically, when we have two weeks between races. is not one. Yeah, 100%. Disagree. Yeah. You like that back in the bad board? I get really excited every time it's a race week.

I'm just like, oh, good. Another one. I know we've known about 24 races and it's unfair on the staff. It is. It's tiresome. And for the podcast, it's tiring. Yeah, I still get excited every time I know there's a race coming. That's F1.

I just get a bit. Oh, okay. Another one. Good. Give it to me. I think, I mean, I'm, you know, excited for the Dutch GP. is obviously next week now.

But I think like the summer break is maybe realize I'm excited for the Dutch GP because we've, I don't want four weeks in between each time. It's too much. But there's a break. So I'm like, oh, I'm waiting for, I'm ready for the next one. Whereas I found sometimes with back to backs,

I'm like, oh, here's another one. Right. Not that I'm not excited. He hates it. I don't hate it. I just, I think there's a bit of saturation, uh, effect when we have so, we have so many back to backs.

And having that break makes me more excited for the next race, basically. I'm with you. I, yeah, I like two weeks between. When it gets three is too many. Too much, yeah. Absolutely. I quite like it when it's two. You got to go racing every day.

I have to go racing every day. Love that. Everyday race day. Everyday race day. Give it to me. What day is it today? Race day. Do you have a pump and bring some?

Um, it's more an idea that I'd like to see. Okay. And you could tell me if you think it's rubbish. But I've always dreamed. And actually, do you remember on project cars? You could set up any grid that you wanted. Yes. I've always dreamed of a Le Mons style, open wheel, multi-class race.

Where I would have Formula One Indy car. I would probably then take, um, super formula and maybe Formula 2. And I have all the grigs on the track. And it'll be like a special one-off race that happens every, I don't know, a few years or something. Still endurance? or? Well, I like the idea of an endurance race. Yeah, a bit longer than a standard race, I think it would be fun.

Not for 24 hours, but, you know, a bit longer than a normal race, yeah. And expanding on your idea, obviously, nothing championship-wise. No, no, there'd be like a special one-off prize. Like the Indy 500, if you were going to pick it up out of the IndyCar Championship and make it a separate thing, all like LeMong, right? It will just be a, you can enter for that race, you get a big special prize, a big trophy, we will go on. you like that idea Harry

no fine by me mate because it's not real well at least you're honest no I I can see I can see the appeal of it I just I just I'm not sure how I'm in practice it works and also I like the I like the difference you have between these different disciplines

I think chucking them all together like sounds exciting as a as a one-off but actually in practice how is that a good thing to watch is it fun but I don't know. We'll never know because it will never be real. We'll never know.

Yeah, I get it, I get it, but I just, I'm not sure I'd want that. I don't think. I think it'd be like, this would be amazing, like an amazing thing. And then the race would start and then you, I don't know, could be a bit bored by it. Not sure. Oh, I'm willing to give it a go. I'm through, I'm safe.

That's all I care about. Yeah. Yeah, that's me. I understand the fears of the concept. And I don't even necessarily disagree with some of them, but I think it's worth a. Sure, why not? I'd make it an endurancey sort of, I agree not maybe not 24 hours, but... I'd like four or six or something like that.

I'd go six, something like that. But yeah, I'd be intriguing at least, wouldn't it? That's a one-off. Give it a punt. Okay. Come on there, Ben. Here's my pump the brakes. So, if Daniel Ricardo had left Red Bull to go to Renault, the year before, it happened.

The line up that would have happened, Red Bull, I think would have been Vastappan and Sines. And my problem the brakes is, that would still be their line up today. There would be no Albon, no Gassley, no Perez. That line up of Sines and Vastappen would have came in at that point, and there'd still be the duo today. I agree with you that would be a Gassley,

there would be an Albon. I don't know if it was still with that line up today, because there's a part of me that fears that Carlos Sykes would want to kill Max Verstappen because they famously don't like each other. That is true. They don't get along.

That's fair. I think you're right. I think they would they kept that stability and it would have been a good line up for them. That is a very good point because once Ricardo left

it really stumped them. They'd got into a bad chain of promoting drivers too early because they had to and things like that. So I think, yeah, fair shout. I think it could well have been. Yeah.

I think they'll still with the line up. Yeah. Yeah. I think Carlos Science would put his frustration is to one side and go, I've a race winning car here. I'm going to stick it out. Yeah. It's very interesting to think about, isn't it?

How that one decision from six years ago could have impacted Red Bull even to the present day. Like, that is fascinating some of the issues. Red Bull. Ricardo has set off a chain of events that are very difficult for them to control and they become a part of that chain of events later on in his own chain. The other potentially interesting way that it could have gone was, let's say Sines gets into the Red Bull and Vostappen beats him relatively comfortably,

maybe similar to what he did to Ricardo in their last season together. And Red Bull go, signs isn't performing well enough here, we need to make a change. And then everything else happens after that. and they realize, damn, I wish we could go back to size. Can we have that? He's pretty good, actually. Yeah.

I just wonder if he would have been still, because they wouldn't have had the knowledge of what Albin and Gassley and Perez have done versus Vostappen. I just wonder if he might have underperformed. Like, would they have seen it as worse than it actually was? Like, if that makes sense? I still think they had unrealistic expectations for any driver that came up against Max Vostappen after Daniel Riccardo.

I still think it was unfair, the level of pressure they put on. needs driver to be as Guestagnar Ricardo was in that car within half a season. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. So we all agree with one another today. Sorry, folks. At least I played it before.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we did manage to get one gunged noise in. Would you like to get us out of here? I want nothing more than to get us out of it. Live show, mate. What? Life show. Oh.

Folks, Patreon or not, which you can still subscribe to if you really like to. But tickets are available. The links in the description. It's on the first. before the Cota Grand Prix, we will be in Texas. Yeha. Can't wait to go line dancing. Can't wait to eat Waterburger.

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Watch us on YouTube. I'm sure this is a horror show this time but that is also late breaking F1 and we'll be about midweek of course for our Zangvort preview with better previews Thank God for that The summer break is over

Woo Anyway in the meantime I'll be Sam and Sage I've been Ben Hocking And I've been Harry Eat And remember keep breaking late This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network