The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Will Daniel Ricciardo EVER be back in F1?

Episode Date: October 16, 2022

After the news that Daniel Ricciardo will not be on the 2023 grid, the boys discuss whether he should've pushed harder for a seat and we'll ever see him back in F1. They also discuss the premature end of W Series' season after financial difficulties, and play Late Faking... JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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responsibly. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. We've got another Sunday show, despite there being no race review to do. We are absolutely committed, dedicated to the people. We're going to be talking about Ricardo's F1 future as it looked like he won't be on the 2023 grid. Someone who will be on the 2023 grid, Nick DeVries will be talking about Alfa Tauri's decision there, as well as the decision that W-series will not be running their last couple of rounds of their championship in 2022. Sam, in the last five minutes, you've presented a donut and a bag of

radishes. How's it going? Look, honestly, folks, you're back, so maybe we'll take a photo. The size of this bag of radishes. It's like the size of my head. No one's ever eating that many radishes. Obviously, it's been a weird five minutes between recording what was Wednesday's episode

and now. I've had an owner as well. Really nice. Really yummy donut. We're going to talk about some interesting stuff today, but I do think the bag of ranishes is going to be tough to top.

I've already got my outro, so that's that done. I'm taking a photo now. But don't tweet it yet. What purpose? This will come back until Sunday. I'll send it to you guys. Out of context late breaking.

Can someone set that up that Twitter account? Can I respect if you do? We, I mean, people have done, they've done it before. So we started Wednesday's episode, the episode we did an hour and a half ago. Sam had Ian his catch next to him. And then we started this episode, and Sam has a back of radish shit. It could get way, though. I'm sure. I'm sure it will, and it usually does.

Right, Formula One, that's what we're talking about. Daniel Ricardo, obviously we now know it's definitely not going to be at McLaren, but he's also not going to be at Alpine. There are a couple of seats still to be filled on the grid, which are Williams and Hass, but it appears as if Daniel Ricardo has no interest in those two seats or maybe they have no interest in him one way or the other.

So the question is, what does Daniel Ricardo do for 2023? Is there a chance for him back onto the grid in 2024? Harry, do you think this is bad for the sport in any way if Daniel Ricardo is not able to be on the grid for 23? You know what personality he is? Ben never comes to me first on a first topic. This is huge. This is your shot, buddy.

It's all riding on this. Look, it's no matter what you think of Daniel Ricardo's performances this year, and let's be honest, they've not been great. He is a huge personality for Formula One, and he's a huge straw. And from a commercial point of view, this is a bad thing. It's a bad thing for F1. He was the sort of first big personality on Drive to Survive, because that first year of that first year, sorry.

Oh, sorry folks. Sam sent through the photo of the radishes and Harry accidentally put, looks lovely Nate rather than looks lovely mate. So of course we are now Nate breaking. God, this makes no sense.

Daniel Ricardo, Drive to Survive personality. Yep. In that first year of Drive to Survive, we didn't have Ferrari or Mercedes involved, if people remember that. And most of the focus, or a big chunk of the focus, was around Daniel Ricardo and his performance of Red, well, he's having a great year, Red Bull, but was he going to stay,

and he didn't stay, and his decision was made, he was going to get to Renault, and that was a huge story. So, you know, and he's been a popular personality ever since. So from a commercial interview, it's not a good thing for F1. Australia, they, well, they game piastria, I guess, but they lose. Daniel Ricardo in that sense. And it's not a good thing. From whatever way you look at, well, from my point of view,

it's not a good thing that we're not going to have Daniel Ricardo in Formula One next year. You know, I still think you could have bounced back, but maybe we'll never know. But yeah, it's a sad time. It's a sad time to be losing Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricardo at the same time. There's two big, big personalities. in very different ways, the two big personalities in the F-1 world that won't be around, and I think we'll notice it.

What do you think, Sam? Do you think this is damaging for the sport in any way that Ricardo looks like won't be on the grid for at least one year? He's definitely one of the big names, one of the big faces. And I think in the emerging market, there is the United States, they love him. They absolutely love him over there. But Formula One doesn't need to depend on just one person. there are big, big personalities before him.

There will be big personalities after him. And, you know, I would argue, right, Max Verstappen, not a big personality, right? He's not outlandish. He's not particularly loud. He doesn't rock up to the paddock every weekend in a crazy, flashy fashion-based outfit. Hasn't really even got his own merch line, you know. Just sells his own caps. But people bloody love him, right?

People love him. And they loved him before he was world champion. People bloody love him. So you don't need to be the most eccentric outlandish person on the grid to have a strong following and to produce the right stuff for Formula One to be successful. And Formula One, Liberty will live on without him. Yes, I am gutted that he's going because I absolutely love seeing Danny Rick on a race weekend. He's a fantastic person, lovely, funny.

But Formula One will carry on. Do I think, this is going back a little while for him, I have now come to terms that I think that him leaving Red Bull, was one of the worst driver decisions to have been made in a long time, maybe in the last two decades, because I think that you keep Daniel Riccardo alongside Max Verstappen for the last, what, four, five seasons. Max Verstappen might have beating him three or four times,

but I think Daniel Ricardo's got getting him, especially with a title fight on the line to push himself. And I think that would have changed his entire legacy. If he hadn't necessarily left Red Bull that year, but left later on, he could possibly be in that Ferrari seat. That's because Charler-Clerc, because I think they possibly would have had him there as well. I do think this is bad for Formula One,

but I don't think it'll be too impactful. I think they'll quite comfortably recover or find someone else to centre their commercial world around. And I think this is going to be far more damaging to Daniel Ricardo than with to Formula One. I think he is one of those drivers because of his age, and you compare him to the likes of Fernando Oloxo, who's a two-time World Champion.

He's got the legacy, I think, be able to come back to the grid after time away. But you look at drivers who have been good, but not amazing. And I think Daniel Ricardo maybe now starts to fall under the, yeah, good, great, not incredible category. Why should he get a drive this late in his career after being a whole year out where there's so much young talent coming through that has proven itself to be brilliant? I think we might be saying goodbye to Daniel Ricardo forever. And this could be a bit of a whimper rather than the bang that it deserves to be for such a man of his character. So if that is the case, I'm really sad that we're losing him.

I do hope he finds a way back in, but I think it's going to be incredibly difficult. Yeah, I think this is bad for the sport to an extent. However, I have always maintained that I don't think there is one individual or indeed one team that is bigger than the sport. The sport is bigger than absolutely every personality and every team that sits within it. So we've had the discussion multiple times about Ferrari and an F1 and who needs the other more. I've always maintained, I think, everyone needs F1 more than F1 needs them. So whilst I don't think it's good for the sport, it's also I don't think the end of the world.

I think though, and many people are focusing rightly on Drive to Survive and how much of a personality that's allowed him to shine through and that's absolutely great. what I would probably miss the most from a Ricardo perspective is just the real strong, driven, determined Daniel Ricardo that quite honestly isn't really on the grid at the moment. So I don't think we're actually losing that at the end of this year. I would argue we've already lost that because it really dawned on me in Suzuki actually how defeated and resigned Ricardo is now to his current position and how he can't get scripts with the car. You might remember a few years ago when Ricardo was at Red Bull.

There was a qualifying session at Suzuki. I can't actually quite remember what happened, but he was put out perhaps for something that wasn't even his fault. And he had that screamed. Do you remember that? He properly screamed within his helmet because of how furious he was. And people often forget because of how smiley he is, how happy go lucky is outside of the car. People forget how driven and determined he is when he's really motivated in the car. And I think that was great for Formula One when he was in that spot. And this weekend, because of that happening at Suzuki, and we had a situation this weekend that's just gone that he qualified P11, right?

And it looked like he might make Q3 and then a few improved at the end and he didn't quite make it. And over team radio, the response was copy or understood. You would never have had that a few years ago. And that made me realize actually the Daniel Ricardo that I really love, we kind of already lost. So I will miss that side of him, no doubt about it. And I hope he finds a situation where he can get back in a car that he gels with so we can get that Ricardo back on the grid, not just any Ricardo.

Do you remember when he got that win at Monsa, right? And he gave that that moment over the radio, which I think is actually quite an iconic radio moment where he went, you know, I never left. I just, I moved aside for a while and now I'm back. I kind of got chills listening to that when it first came out. And I feel sad that we never saw it materialized into anything else. See, he had that win and then it very quickly became nothing again, very quickly.

And I think you're right. That's, I love that sign of any racing driver that. get up and go, that I'm going to tell you how it is and I'm going to be the craft of my own future. And I think we've lost that. The Monaco sort of boisterous, right? These are my streets. Like that, Rickarder.

Yeah, love that. Love that. And he's gone. I think he's gone. I think in his mind, he's like, I need to solidify my future outside of Formula One regardless of what happens here. Because he's got a program or something coming out on Amazon.

He's like, which is actually, I don't think it's a documentary. I think he's a sitcom. and he's a character in a sitcom, but it's meant to be about Daniel Ricardo in the sitcom. So that tells me already that his focus is, you've got to put some time into that. I think that he is, I think he's gone.

Do you think he should have pushed harder for a 2023 seat, Harry, even if it was one of the lower teams? Yeah, I kind of think he should have done. It's very hard. no matter what your talent, it's very difficult to get back on the F1 grid once you're out of it. You have to be,

there's a certain amount of luck involved. No matter what you're talented, there's a certain amount of luck in getting back to the F1 grid. You see with Fernando Alonzo, that seat only came about because Ferrari got rid of Vettel and they got Carlos signs, which meant there's a seat available in McLaren that Ricardo took, and then Alonzo got the seat.

at Renault, which then became Alpine. So, you know, things have to fall into place. And yes, that might happen. But, but it seems far, far easier to be able to showcase your talents in F1 than it is outside of it. And, you know, we've seen the case as well when, when there are young drivers that have to sit on the sidelines. You're in and around the paddock, but you're not able to show,

apart from maybe the odd FP1, you're not able to show what you can do. And I think the case and point here is is Nick DeFries because look at Nick DeFries. He's been sat on the sidelines on the fringes of F1 for a good few years now. And he gets one outing in a Williams. He absolutely smashes it. And yes, it's circumstantial, but that goes back to the luck element again. But he smashes it. Boom.

Race seat with Alvatari. And we'll come into that later. But this is my point. Unless you're in the actual sport racing or qualifying or, competing, people, people don't look you as much. And, and I just think it'll be really difficult for Ricardo. And I'd hoped, you know, do I want to see him plodding around in a Williams? Potentially not. But I still think he's got a better chance of getting into another seat one day being in F1 than he does out of it. So I'm worried. I'm worried he won't make it back in,

which is, would be a shame in my view. But we'll see. It's, it's not, uh, it's, it's not, uh, impossible, but it's definitely much harder in my view. What do you think, Sam, should you have pushed for one of those 20, 23 seats more? Well, 100% in my opinion. As I've already said, I don't think he has the legacy like Fernando Alonxo to, I think Harry's right, when the pieces fall into place, he's the man there with his foot in the door and has got the CV essentially to go, I'm coming, that seats mine. And I think Alonso has that.

Alonso has that raw ability, and he's showcasing it still, right? Even now I say Alonso is out driving Daniel Ricardo every single race of this season, despite the age gap. I don't think Ricardo has that currently to back himself up. Alonso understands, he's a clever chap. Alongso understands his wrong person. I'm not a clever chap. Ricardo understands his marketability.

He understands the value, I think, of being on the grid. And I feel like that's where mistakes are being made. if you want to carry on driving this career for this marketability, this outside career wants Formula One Ns, being on the Formula One rig will do way more for you than anything ever, any other option you could pick up. And I think he should have gone for Hass. I think he should have sat there taking a pay cut and said to Hass,

you can pay me half what McClaron are paying, but I want to be your poster boy. I want to be up around every American town. I want to be on talk shows across America. I want to be the face of everything you do. do across the States was that's the market that he could thriving. And I'm not saying he won't prosper over there. Right. He's already got a very strong following. People love him. But I do think if he wants that longevity, he wants that cash money coming in the door, which of course he does.

That was the sensible option. Hars are not right at the back like they were anymore. They've got the ability to possibly challenge for some points, as we've seen. If he's willing to take a hit on the cast to help them develop. It could be positive for him. And I think that his long-term goals outside of Formula One would be benefited massively. I don't think he's got the longevity in his career anymore to be able to sit out for a season and get back in. Look at Hulk, right? A lot of the Formula One value Nico Holgerberg very highly. A lot of them see him as a talent. And his junior career showed how bloody good he was. And he was very strong in Formula One. But even he has been in and out, in and out, reserve driver role, reserve driver role, practice sessions,

and he's never managed to get himself properly back in with a proper foothold. And I think Daniel Ricardo is unfortunately more leaning towards the Holgerberg aspect than he is the Fernando Alonkso aspect. And I think he should have taken any opportunity that came his way rather than seeing how it goes next season. Because you put too much in seeing how it goes, it could so quickly fall apart for you. We'll never see him again. Yeah, I mostly agree with what both of you have said. I don't think 2023 out helps him at all, particularly if he's not even racing anywhere,

which seems like that might be the case. You know, even if you're not racing in Formula One, racing somewhere, I think helps your cords, and I don't think that's going to happen. I mean, I think he should have pushed harder for the 2023 seats as well. And regardless of your opinion as to the Ricardo McClarence, because a lot of people think that it's Ricardo, a lot of people think it's not, Ricardo and it's McLaren and it's just the partnership hasn't worked. Wherever you are on that spectrum, it's happened, right? It has happened. So if he has lost the luxury of choice because of

the last couple of years, so be it. You have to get on with it and come to terms with it. If you can't get the same money that you might have been able to get a few years ago or get as good a seat as you could a few years ago because of what's happened, I think you have to swallow your pride and yet you have to come to terms with it and realize the situation, you're in and go for one of those seats rather than holding out for 2024 because quite honestly, I know a lot can happen in a short time in F1, but I don't see an obvious route in. I would perhaps think a bit differently. Let's say he joins Mercedes as reserve driver, which is being rumoured, if there was a confidence value that Hamilton was going to retire at the

end of next year, if you knew that there was a 75% chance that Hamilton was going to be gone at the end of 2023, fine, understand it. But there's been no indication that that's the case. And I don't see an obvious route in at Red Bull. I don't see an obvious route in Ferrari. So where are you looking to get your opportunity from in 2024? Because if it doesn't happen in 24, then you're looking at 2025. And you're right, he's not, he's not in his 20s.

He's not in his late teens. He's in his 30s now. So these opportunities are not going to keep coming. and I'd have no idea what the answer to this is, by the way. But who was the last driver who took two full seasons out, at least two full seasons out, and came back to Formula One, who wasn't a world champion? Because the most recent ones I can think of,

you've got Alonzo, obviously, but he has the pedigree of two championships, Reikernan, who had the pedigree of one championship. And Ricardo doesn't have that. Who else has done that way? They've been out of the sport for two. years and come back. Kubitsa, I think, is a bit of an asterisk on that, right? That's injury-based. K-Mag. These technically had two in total. But there's still one. Yeah, one at a time.

Stints, right? The point is, I think it is difficult when it became, if it's one year, like Albin and Ocon have done, fair enough. I think it becomes really difficult if he can't get a seat for 24, and it's two years out where he gets that opportunity from. I mean, where does he go, right? Like, this is the season where so many seats came up for grabs. So many drivers have signed them for multi-year deals now. It doesn't even make sense that there will be a load of options appearing for him at the end of, you're right with the Mercedes thing.

That's the only way that logically it makes sense to go to a team like the Seesegis in the hope that Lewis Hamilton, I don't know, has an epic season, Wings his eighth title, goes, that's it for me, I'm gone, and Daniel Ricardo gets a one-year deal to see what he can do. It won't happen. the luck you would need, it won't happen. Everything as of late from a Hamilton perspective has been, I'm committed longer term than that, right? Everything he said in the last six months.

And maybe he goes back on it, who knows, but it's a risk. Unless there's some internal dialogue inside of the same is that Ricardo's aware of, but I don't know why he would be privy to that unless they're going, sign on, Hamilton is only doing until the end of next year, but he's not telling the public that. But I can't believe that's the dialogue anyway. So I think Ricardo stuffed himself like a chicken. Back to chicken wings again, I see.

Let's talk DeVries and Alpha Tauri right after this short break. So this is probably not one that anyone called like 12 months ago or even six months ago. Alpha Tauri with Gassley going to Alpine had a free spot. Obviously they've got multiple drivers that are in F2 and F3. They decided against any of those options. and they went for Nick DeVries. Nick DeVries made his Formula One debut at Monza this year for Williams, but he will now join Alpha Tauri as their driver alongside Yuki Sonoda for 2023.

Sam, what are you making the decision? Do you think it was a good one? I've got a question to ask you first, Ben. Because you're a misk, you're a misstateman. Is Nick DeVries the oldest driver to have his first race? You know, like, right? He's been around a while now. right? There's no spring to tricking anymore.

He's older than the likes of Norris. So I feel like, I don't know if you know the answer, but he feels like the oldest driver for some time to have his debut Grand Prix. So it slightly coincides with the stat I wrote down for this. It's not quite what you're asking, but quite similar. He is the second oldest driver to make their debut for Torooso slash Alpha Tauri.

The only driver that was, I think, about one year older was Sebastian Bordeaux, and that was 15 years ago. But every other driver since then has been younger making their debut for the team than DeVries will be. It'll be 28 by the time he debuts. I mean, I think even the likes of Latifi were younger when he came into Formula One. I mean, he's like his six months younger than Latifie, I think,

or six months. Yeah, something like that. They're very similar age. So that's bizarre. This bizarre that he's going into a young driver program team because let's face it, that's what Alpha Tauri are. So, right, is this a good move? Let's start with Nick DeVries.

Is it a good move? Yeah, 100%. This finally gets Nick DeVries, who folks, if you don't know, if you're new to the sport, is an F2 champion, the same as what Schumacher's managed to do, the same as what Piazari's managed to do.

He is the junior formula champion. And it's taken him that long to get a seat on this grid. you know, he's going to become the Formula E World Champion in between that time. So, for Nick DeVries, he finally get a spot to finally get a go, whatever team it might have been. Yeah, good for him. He's got it. He's got it done. It shows he still got the talent.

You know what that performance in Monza? Again, as Harry said, circumstantial, a bit lucky. He's still got the job done. He's still showed that he's got what it takes to be a Formula One driver. I didn't ever expect him to be at Alpha Tauri out of all the teams on the grid. I did think it was going to be more likely to be a Williams. But here we are. From an Alfa Tauri point of view,

we have made the point so many times that Pierre Gazley was just a placeholder. He was just sitting there filling a seat. It was just a bit of a waste of space. He had his moment and it wasn't doing what they needed to do anymore, so they were hoping to fill him. I think Nick DeVries has been brought in for a similar, but slightly different reason. Now, Sergio Perez, probably hasn't got endless years in his contract

his career left, right? A couple years at most, I reckon. Yuki Sengoda is not setting the world on fire like they would have wanted to. And their junior formulas, I would argue, not ready for at least a season, if not two, unless they go out poaching for someone else that isn't inside their junior category. So what does Nick DeFries do? Putting Nick DeVries in this Alphotauri for a season allows them to prove to them that he's a safe pair of hands, he can get the results done, he's consistent, he knows what he's doing. if that's the case, if that goes well if he proves himself,

Red Bull has a program go, Sergio Perez, thank you so much for your service. You've been a great teammate to Max Verstapp and we appreciate it. We're now elevate at that point. It will be a 29 to 30 year old Nick DeVries who can come in and be a B-side driver that's had a couple of years to prove himself in Formula One and will just get the job done until their next young prodigy comes through. I think that's the only way that this looks like a positive and sensitive,

move for Alpha Tauri. Otherwise, they should have brought in, I don't know, Dennis Hager and gone, look, we know he's young, we know he hasn't proved himself, and publicly state, we are giving this man time. That's the point. We're giving him time to grow and prove himself because we're ready. We've got a seat available. Otherwise, I can't see any real game for bringing Nick DeVries into this team.

The other person who must be singing and dancing must be Toto Wolf, because he's been trying to get that man a Formula One drive since the day I was bloody born, it feels like. So it finally happened. and you know what good luck to him. I hope he makes something of it. I hope he gets himself a seat, even if it is that second Red Bull seat and he can be a Constructors champion, who knows.

But it's been a long time coming, so let's see what he can do with it. What do you think, Harry? Do you think this was a good move from Alpha Tauri to go outside of their pool of drivers? Yeah, we had this conversation the other day, didn't we, around? Is it a bit of a worry that the pool of drivers

that Alpha Tauri slash Red Bull have to choose from is not as strong as it once was. I think this is proof of it. But having said that, I think it's a good move. I think Nick DeFrease is one of those drivers that's,

for whatever reason, not managed to find his way into F1, but quite frankly, I think has been deserving of a seat in F1 for quite a while. F2 champion, for example, now Formula E champion. So he's got the talent there.

And he showed it once again, a Monza to be just dumped into that car. Again, circumstantial, the Williams was quite good at Monza because there aren't many corners, et cetera, et cetera. But still, it was a very impressive job from him. So, yeah, I think it's a good call. And it shows the change in mentality from the Red Bull family as a whole that we saw with the signing of Perez.

And I think maybe that, you know, the overall, the signing of Perez has been a positive thing compared to where they were. Perez is doing the job that they need Perez to do. He's, he's, you know, maybe a show. shaky start to 2021, but he's in the position they need him to be when Max Verstappen doesn't, isn't on the rare days and Max Verstappen isn't on form. So that's probably shown them that they can go outside of their own program here and reap the rewards of it. So, yeah, I think it's a very sensible call for Alpharet here.

I think Nick DeFries will be a solid, solid addition to that team. and he's, I guess he's in, is he in the Red Bull junior team now? He kind of is, but is it that making part of the Red Bull family? I don't know, it's an odd one because he's obviously, Toto has stood by and for that long. I don't know how that one went down. Like, I guess Toto must have let him go, but odd, you odd to consider that he was part of the Mercedes family for so long

and is now part of the Red Bull family instantaneously. So, yeah, we'll see. Maybe he'll end up with the, he'll be, it could be in line to the Red Bull team. We'll see when Perez leaves one day. So, yeah, good signing around. I think DeFries just deserved a seat for a while. And it's just been unlucky because he's kind of been in that Mercedes program

where there's not been an opening for ages. And the only time there was an opening, it was obvious. It was going to be George Russell getting it. So, yeah, I think it's a good thing that DeFries is saying. Good signing by both parties. I think Nick DeVries might go down as the most qualified, unqualified Formula One driver of all time, right? I mean, he, in terms of someone making their debut, I don't think you can be more prepared for it outside of actually racing than what Nick DeVries has got, at least the proper debut. I mean, I know he's done one race.

Ultimately, you look, he's, he used to be in the McLaren Junior program. He's now part of Mercedes. he did an FP1 outing for Aston, he raced for Williams, and now he's part of Red Bull. He has been everywhere when it comes down to F1. Village bike of F1. He is. He absolutely is. I'm not massively surprised by this one.

Honestly, I think with Yuki Sanoda, there is still a lot of trepitation about whether he, whether he could stand in for Perez or Vestappen, he was needed. And quite honestly, I think really related to your point, Sam, Nick Navariz is going they've got a good shot of him being ready sooner than any other driver they've put through that system in a long time. So I can understand why they've done it. He's almost that reliable backup that Gazley was for a couple of years. Honestly, when it comes to Nick DeVries, I think DeVries's ceiling is Albon, Gassley. I don't think it's higher than that. I don't think he has the potential to be Lando Norris, George Russell,

Charles, LeClair level. Reason being, he raced all those guys in the junior formulae and lost to them. And he's older than them as well. So based on that record, you know, I won't go through his full junior record. We don't have the time or I don't think anyone has the patience for me to do that. But actually, if you look through everything that he did in a junior record, he won Euro Cup Formula Renault, but he did so in his third year. by which point,

Gazley and Ockon, who were two years younger than him, had already done better than him in the series and graduated beyond where DeVries was. He spent one year in GP3 and he finished P6, the same year LeClair won at the first time of trying. Leclair is like two or three years younger than he is. F2 did exactly the same thing.

He stays in F2 when LeCler gets promoted to F1. He comes up against Russell, three years younger than him. Norris, nearly five years younger than him. Albin, similar. They all beat him. And then he does win the F2 title. You've got to give him credit for doing that.

He did it in his third year. Nicholas Latifie finished second that year. And I don't want to slant of the man too much. But when it comes to Formula E, he's had three seasons. He finished 11th in his debut year. I'll put that to one side. He finished ninth this year when his teammate, won the championship.

I think Van Dorn doubled the amount of points that Deverries had. And there were a few occasions this year where his defensive manoeuvres were dodgy.

The old double move. Do you remember that one when he went over a bump and spun and then went over the same bump and spun again? Two lapsing a row. Hilarious. A few things like that

from this year give me a bit of cause for concern. I'm not going to lie. And he did win the Formula E Championship. He deserves respect for that. That is possibly in motorsport history, the biggest lottery of a season we have ever had. There were 23 points between 1st and 15th. Blimey. Yeah. So I don't want to, I don't want to take away him winning that championship, but that could have gone 15 different ways.

whereas this season that we've just had was far more formulaic, I guess you can call it, where the difference between first and 15th was 189 points. So you're much more of a normal season and his teammate Sean than he didn't. So I think DeVries has the ability to have a solid career in F1. I do think he can be that Alex Alburn, that Pierre Gazley type of driver. But if anyone is expecting more than that, I think they're going to be proven wrong. I don't think he deserves a seat.

Just putting it out there. It is an interesting one with Perez's contract because it's not like Perez or Vestappen have are going to be out soon. If they wanted to dedicate time, someone like how that you suggested, now would be the time to do it. It feels like the time's appropriate.

I don't... Go on, sorry, Sam. That's right, but you go for it. Thank you. Very courteous. And Zay, is DeFriot is just a placeholder then in that sense? Maybe they don't want to risk Helga yet, but he's a placeholder there for a year, and then they get Helga into Alford. Because we saw with Sonoda, he was in too early, and his first year was,

what he scored points of the first and last race, and that was it. So the rest of the time he didn't break. So maybe that's what they're going for. I don't know. I think that's entirely what they're going for. I think they're going for, like I said, what is called the safe pair of hands, substitute essentially. He will fill a gap, but I think

Nick DeVries has benefited from a pure luck point of view where no one else can fill that void. Like Daniel Ricardo is not going to go to Alfa Tauri. The only other person I thought might, might, on a real risk, go there is Mick Schumacher. And I didn't really see it. I don't think he's really

impressive enough for them to take that risk. DeVries has got enough time left in his career that he can sit there for a couple of years and they could bring him off. He won't be too expensive. For me, I'm going to take a risk. on a young driver. I don't even go out and bought someone else who's maybe

have more experiencing F2. Teopal Shear or someone like that. I go, you know what? He's phenomenal. Go out of buying, give him a go. And if he falls apart, well, that's on him. Not us.

We tried it. That's where I'm going to be around for at least another season and a half, two seasons. It makes sense to give someone the couple of seasons they need. Because Sonoda, the decision is next year. So another seats can open up

if he doesn't progress. And if he does progress, then you've got Perez's cover sorted. So this just, it's a bit dodgy and I think Nick DeVries is being really lucky in how he's come about

this drive. Danny Kaffirate's set it out. Ah yeah, give him a shot. I did love the torpedo. 15th time lucky. Also, I mean, all this talk of F2 and F3

drivers and who might have been in that seat, they wanted Herta, right? That was plan A. So, I don't know, how will Nick DeVries cope with knowing that

I'm sure he, Yeah, he's got an F1 drive, so I don't think he's going to weigh on his mind too much, but he does have to factor in. He wasn't their original path, you know, train of fork. There's a lot of that in the next year's grid. Drivers who are not where they were supposed to be. They could really hurt their intentions later on in their court.

Oh, come on. Do you reckon? Fernando was... Benzor... ignore it. Do you reckon Fernando Alonzo knew exactly what was going to happen? And that's why he decided to...

He didn't really want to move away from Alpine. But he thought, if I do it, I could create the most entertaining domino effect and I can just sit back and watch it all and that's why he did it. Yeah. Of course it is. You know that...

I mean, it even goes back to Sebastian Vetter. You know that domino meme, we spoke about this before. Yeah. And at the bottom of it is Sebastian Vettle getting an Instagram account and at the top of it is Nick DeFries gets to see it Alphadaari

and this is how we get here. Tell you what though. What's a silly season? He didn't get this one right specifically but shout out to Marcus Erickson who put together what looked like at the time the most wacky silly season predictions of all time.

I think like he's got everything right apart from this. Like he's nearly everything else. got spot on. I think he's got Schumacher wrong at the moment. But yeah, I think he's like 75% correct. Considering that the initial

prediction was bonkers, the guy's done all right. He's got more 50-50s right in that one moment than I've ever got. So fair play to him. Yeah, if you want to come on the podcast, Marcus and give Sam a run for his money in a 50-50 game,

then you are very welcome indeed. If I beat him, I get his indie 500 trophy. I thought you were going to say Indy 500 Drive. Could you imagine? You going round indie at 230 miles an hour. Screaming Jabui every lap.

Ah! Oh man. Good. We're going to be talking about the W series next, right after this. So some rather sad news when it comes to the W series in their third full season. It has unfortunately been cancelled with a couple of rounds to go. So their last race was in Singapore. The intention was that they were going to travel with Formula One as a support race in Austin

and then have a double header in Mexico to round out their season. Unfortunately, for financial reasons, those last three races will not happen. The championship has been cool. There have been enough races in order to do so. So Jamie Chadwick has been confirmed as champion for the third straight year. Sam, were you supposed to? praised by the news at all and how worrying is this for the future of the series as a whole? I was really surprised by the news. I don't know if I was just sleeping under a rock,

but I had no inclinations that this was going to happen pretty much until about a day before it was called and it did happen. Firstly, what an absolute shame for all of the men and women that work around that sport. You know, all the people, the social media managers, all the engineers, all the people that, you know, have a livelihood because of that sport, you know, catering, HACA, all those things, because of a dodgy funding thing that fell through. I think that's how it's worked out, a bit of a slightly odd financial deal that no one really understands the background details of has fallen through last minute. And I think the drivers are talented enough that they could go on and make some more money.

And the people that are at the top of the teams, if the, if the series and ever gets restarted, we'll be able to go on and find themselves a career in motorsport elsewhere. But it's just a bit of a shame for those that maybe were just starting off in their careers in motorsports. And now I've had to deal with this. It's incredibly worrying for the series. I think it was worrying for the series anyway before it got financial. The likes of Jamie Chagwick winging three times in a row and never appearing elsewhere. You know, I think there were rumours of, you know, Williams paying for an F3 or an F2C impartial.

you know, funding with her prize money and it was turned down or she didn't fancy or something. But if Jamie Chagwick, who is a three-time winner, either didn't want to or didn't make it into the standard junior program, what is it say for the rest of those brilliant women who couldn't beat her? Where do they go? What do they do? It's worrying. It's worrying because it's worrying for the credibility of the talent that's in the season. and if you haven't got the talent that's thriving,

you haven't got big names starting to appear, you haven't got the likes of Chagwick, who is the biggest name in that sport, going on to, you know, threatening for an F1C even, then what is the point in the backing? What are you gaining out of it in that financial backing? I know that sounds really ruthless, really harsh,

but if your investment isn't leading to anything, why would someone come along and fund it? Why would someone risk their capital to drive that series? It's really worrying because we've seen the struggle for women in motorsport, right? The grassroots programs aren't there to encourage them into carting. They're not being picked up by the big teams early and having that talent grown and nurtured like a lot of young men are.

And of course, young men get a lot of financial backing. So the fact that this series isn't getting any at all shows what the individual women might be getting as well. when it looked like we're on the horizon of possibly breaking through for many women's coming to the sport and see a lot of equal footing, a lot of women drivers in F2 and F3 in, you know, in W series coming through, it now looks like we're taking a giant step back. And I don't really know where they go from here. I don't have an answer. I don't have a suggestion.

But it looks like really difficult times for a sport that was meant to promote inclusion, diversity and opportunity and the fact that it could get any funding is really, really worrying. It shows us that money still talks and if you've got the money, you get the drive. And if you haven't got the money, your old series can fall apart and we aren't too bothered.

So, yeah, feel very bad for a lot of people involved. It's a real shame. And it says a lot maybe about where motorsport is still going in terms of opportunity. I might be picking out a bit of a minor detail in all of this, but there was one thing that really really stuck with me was that when this announcement was

told to the women racing in the series by the CEO herself their reaction to the news, as is being reported, was that we're used to it. We're used to funding not coming through. We're used to the promises of this and that and it not happening. And I don't think there was any blame game played in that

conversation between all the drivers. But that's probably the bit that stuck with me the most, is not that how devastating this is for the competitors in the series, but the fact that there was very little surprised by them and it's something that they have had to deal with before and feel like they will continue dealing with in the future, as if like it's normal and it's understood and it's how the world works. That's probably the bit that really annoyed me the most. is how unshocked, how unshocking it is for these women. And it shouldn't be. I have to say, overall, I think I was surprised to an extent what has probably happened here.

And I've got no idea on the ins and outs of the financials. But of course, this is the first time, really. They have ventured out to Singapore. They've done a North American leg. The series has, up until this point, been incredibly. of the European centric, whereas they've tried to expand it this year, which of course brings additional travel costs and the like. And I think that was the sticking point as to why they couldn't get these last three rounds in. So there is the potential that maybe next year they go back to

Europe. I know there is intention to go to America next year for the series. It might be a case of it just being in Europe. I don't know on that front. Obviously, there is no 100% guarantee at the moment that the prize money is going to be awarded. That remains to be seen. It should happen, but it's not the, again, Catherine Bonnure can't 100% guarantee it. It is worrying. And look, they're very confident that they'll go racing again in 2023 and I believe them on that front. But also, if you're trying to get a message out to potential investors and the like, you're always going to try and appear positive in media statements. So you can't read 100%. percent into that. Fundamentally, I have never been a massive fan of the W series as a concept,

just because from my perspective, I don't believe the road to equality comes about through segregation where I don't think it is from a pure sporting level needed. Now, there is no doubt that there are real missed opportunities to have more diversity on the grid and to have more of a pool of talent to choose from. My approach to this would be different and it always has been different as to what I would do. Now, I will say, first of all, nothing was in place prior to this. So is this better than no action at all? By a long way, yes. It is better than nothing by a long way. But really for me, I think there needs to be a re-evaluation can more be done about getting money further down the ladder to grassroots because that is where the change will happen. It will be a longer process, but I think it will be a more sustainable process.

Very similar to what Hamilton is doing with his commission. He's really getting down to the grassroots and working up from there. I don't believe that any F1 team has ever not hired a woman when they have been more qualified than a man. The problem is the women aren't getting the opportunities in the lower formulae like F2 and F3 in order to be qualified enough to go up against these men. If you've got 20 drivers to choose from and 19 are men and only one is female, just numbers and probability. one of those 19 is probably going to be more qualified. But we need to do more as a sport in terms of encouragement at a grassroots level, getting young girls into karting, giving them role models.

And then I think, and I'm not saying there's no action needed further up the ladder, there definitely is. But I think there would be a filtering up respect to that. I think if you have more women in karting, more young girls in karting, then there are more girls to choose from when F4 teams have to choose, drivers. And if we can get funding at that level, scholarships, if we can get programs to really raise awareness of what girls can be in motorsport, that's where I think you'll have the most change instead of what W series has become, which I think is a

cordoned off. And Jamie Chadwick is proof that it's not happening in terms of the progression. It's there as a feeder series that isn't feeding. So something isn't right. That's where my attention would go to personally. What do you think, Harry, in terms of the W-series news and indeed its future at large? Yeah, it's very sad that this has happened. And I won't, for the sake of all of your listeners, I won't go and repeat all the same points of you to have made because I agree entirely with what you've already said. I think the one thing I'll add to this as well is I'm surprised and saddened,

that the F1 haven't stepped in here and tried to salvage, you know, and look, maybe, maybe, and they're saying that the prospects for 2023 still look pretty rosy and we'll be back there then. And the early stoppage of this season was to ensure that they'll be there next year. And I sincerely hope that they are because you're right, Ben, I'm with you. It's not, not the perfect solution, but it's at the moment a solution. I'm with you on the approach we need to take. But, yeah, I'm sad.

that F1 haven't, for the amount of money that's floating around in Formula 1, you feel like they could step in here and help W series out. Because let's face it, they are now one of their support series. And I feel like it should work both ways. F1 should also support W series here because, you know, F2 and F3, there's never any, or even Porsche Super Cup that supports F1 for most of the year, never any risk of those lot going under.

you might see individual teams, etc. But that's different. But the actual series itself has never really been in doubt of going under, especially the past decade or so, even 20 years. So, so yeah, I'm surprised F-1 didn't step. And when the news was sort of breaking in Singapore, that there were money issues with W-Series. And the only camera filming free practice was like one still camera frame

out of the last corner. What was that about? Yeah, it's like, well, come on. Like, come on, what are you doing it? The part of, even, you know, moral and ethical issues aside, even from a spectator point of view, that's horrendous. What would F1 want from this? It's embarrassing.

So, look, I'm sure there are contracts and whatever in place, but it just seems like it's not a good look on F1 this either, if W-Series can't make it back onto the, back on to the, the support roster. So yeah, I totally agree with what you say. And I, you know,

if W series are still having difficulty getting back on the grid next year, I sincerely have F1 step in and help them because if they're F1 a serious as the whole wee race is one and we've touched on this many, many times. If they're serious about this and want more inclusivity in the sport, they've got to,

you know, they've got to invest in it, not just let it let it go bust. when it runs out of money when it hasn't got investment. So yeah, I sincerely hope F1 also invest in getting W series back for 2023. Yeah, obviously on all topics, we're very interested to hear what you have to say. But especially with this one, please do get in touch, whether that's via Discord, whether it's via Twitter, Instagram.

Let us know your thoughts on this. You know, how could F1 step in and help? What is the future looking like for the W series and what action needs to be taken? Very interested to hear any and all points on that. We're going to round out today's podcast with a game of late faking right after this. Late faking.

Do we actually have a jingle for this? No. Do you want to sing? That's the good thing we do. We don't yet. We don't yet, folks. We have a look through the soundboard, folks. got here. Maybe we should do a

songwriting competition. Let's see what. We're fill in the blank. F1 Alpha Betty. Brexit Beefs, Monza, bold prediction. Great. Can we just do a Brexit beef

one time? I'm at work. All right. We've got no jingle, folks, but we still got a game. It is late faking where Harry and Sam will go up against each other six different questions.

So there are four things within a category. I'll let them know what the category is, plus the four options. But one of them's a fake. One of them does not belong in the category that I say. It is up to these guys to identify which one that is. I'm not on the right page on my notebook, hang on.

Oh, come on. Too busy playing against himself. Again. Nice one, Beck. There we go. Lake Faking. Hey, no. Allinger's got a dictionary of games over there.

All right. Harry, you can go first on this one. Number one through to number six. Maybe I don't want you. Maybe I don't want him. I don't really care what you want. Come on one, please. Number one, please.

Okay, I'm going to give you four drivers. Yeah. Three of them have won a Formula of one race after turning 40 years old one of them hasn't can you tell me who that is Warwick Warwick He's not an option

Everyone knows Warwick Warwick won a race at the age of 72 anyway All right Nicky Lauder Jack Brabham Graham Hill Gil Gil and Fangio

One Manuel Fangio One of those drivers did not win a race after turning 40 years old. Who is it? Nikki Lauder? You should. Be more confident. You are right. That is the easiest question

that begs ever given on one of these quizzes. That answers my next question of would you've got that one, Sam? So yeah, you'd have gotten louder as well. Yeah, I actually would have got that. Nicky, Nicky Lauder. Fangio won at 46 years old. Jack Brabham won his last

race at 43. Graham Hill won a race at 40. Nicky Louder, his last win came at the age of 36. Watched. Yeah. All right. What number would you like next, Sam? Number six, please.

Number six. So I'm going to give you four countries. Sebastian Vettler has won a race in three of these countries. All right. Oh, right. Can you tell me the one where he hasn't got a race win? Yeah. Spain.

Right. Hungary. Yeah. China. And Austria. He's never won at Austria. He has never won at Austria. Well done.

Give me 25, 25, 25. 25. 25. I get him right. Dang. Yeah. Clearly that's the trick. Spain he won once in 2011, Hungary twice, 2015 and 2019. China he won once in 2009. His first race win for Red Bull, and never won there again, weirdly.

But Austria, of course, came about when the Saini started to be very good. So that's why he's about one there. Come on. Not going home with nothing. Well done. Harry, back to you. 2, 3, 4 or 5. Number two, peace.

Numbers. I forgot. I wrote this question. Oh no Oh no Okay I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you four drivers

But only one of them actually exists Can you tell me which one of this? He's written this for me He's written this question for me Hoping that I'm looking Worry The answer's weren't worried Come on

Right Which is gone Sam will be an idiot You'll write He'll do this one Okay You're gonna get through Without smiling Ben

Might be Might be One of these is real St. Sinsmore That's a made-up game. Earl Hensmore. Yeah, I wish I made up. Oh, man.

Duke Dinsmore. One more, I can do it. Benbing's more. Like, it's not far off. Baron Binsmore. One of those has raced in Formula One. St. Sinsmore, Earl Hensmore, Duke Dinsmore, and Barrett Binsmore. Oh, okay.

Which one's real? I'll go for the Earl one. Earl Nesmore. Yes. It's not right. Good old Dinsmore. He raced in an indie 500, I think, in the 50s, but yeah. Oh, man.

Sorry to the Gets one question. God, Barry Bingsmore is my favourite. Well, yeah. Isn't it Baron rather than Barry? That's what I was going for. Duke, Earl and Baron and Saint. Yeah. Oh, man.

Barry Binsmore. It should be called Barry. when the indie 500 was part of the F1 championship in the 50s Oh, Baza Bingsmore Oh, Bazzar Bingsmore. That was tough That's stupid end the game

Let's go home It's still won all, Sam, what number do you want? I'll have five, please. Okay, number five. So three of these drivers has had 100 points, at least 100 points in at least one season. So they've had 100 points in a season.

One of them hasn't. Which one is. All right. Robert Kubitsa. Yeah. Romang Grojean. Okay. Pierre Gassley.

And Nico Holcomberg. I think the answer is Nico Holkenberg. Well done. It is Nico Holkenberg. Oh, yeah. It was a tough one as well. Well, blame.

It was. I guessed. Yeah. it was a good guess. Robert Kubitsa did it once in 2010. He had 136 points. Grosjean did it in 2013. Ghazli last year had 110, so he's done it once as well. Nika Holkenberg's best result was 96 points in 2014. Holkenberg has got like a score every year like in the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, 60s. He's pretty much covered every single one up until 100. But never got there. Three or four, Harry.

Three, please. Number three. Okay. Of these four drivers, three of them have claimed the most pole positions in a season. Which one hasn't? Kimmy Reikinen. Nico Rosberg. Duke Dinsville.

Fernando Alonzo and Jacques Villene. Your favourite again. Oh, again. Which one of them hasn't claimed the most poll positions in the season? Correct. Fernando Alonzo. Incorrect. You managed to pick the only one that's done it twice.

Well done. Fernando Alonzo got the most polls in both 2005 and 2006, his championship winning years. Vilnerve did it in his championship winning year, 1997. Rosberg did it in 2014. Obviously not the year he won the championship, but he did do it once. but Kimi Rykinen has never done so I thought Kimmy was always

Yeah, all right I thought I thought the same as you Long of the lie I thought he'd have done it in 05 But apparently not Sam what number would you like Uh

I reckon I'd have number four please Ben Oh good shout Yeah you can have number four Four Four absolutely legendary drivers coming up for you but only one of them Never raced for Menardi

Which one? I get this wrong. Jolt Baumgartner. Vitantonio Leutsi. Christian Albers and Patrick Frizacher. I reckon it was Leutsi. He's only gone and done it.

It is Leutzee. Oh, three for three. And we can chalk that one up as a Sam Sage win, 3-1. Well on, Sam. I've never got so many things right of pure guessing in my life. Three. If I give you a 50-50, just pretend the options are very yes, yes, no and very no.

Strongly agree, grie, disagree. I agree. That's been the word. We've done too much recording at one evening and one go home. I think we have. I think Duke Dinsmore's out enough for one evening. Oh, yeah, I can't agree with that. I don't think I've ever struggled to tip for a question so much.

Oh, well-no, Sam. Good win. If you wouldn't mind for this episode, getting us out of here, please. Oh, thank God. I don't you enjoy your Sunday, folks. We'll see you in the midweek for the Oskig preview, which is very, very exciting that we're going to talk about racing again. Love of you all.

Cheers for sticking around. Join the Patreon if you can afford it. There's a great perks. And then we appreciate it. I'm going to go to bed. In the meantime, I mean, Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. That I have been.

Baron. Binsmore. Remember, keep breaking late. I'm going to go out of radish. Seats and Zambor. more. Cast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.