The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Will Imola deliver a good F1 race? | 2020 Emilia Romagna GP Review | Episode 84

Episode Date: October 28, 2020

In ths week's packed episode the LB trio talk about F1's return to Imola, Gasly's resigning to Alpha Tauri, Norris and Verstappen's radio comments, and the new driver salary cap.Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome. This is episode 84 of the late breaking F1 podcast. Thank you for joining us as we get ready for the Amelia Romagna Grand Prix, being held at the historic Imola Circuit in Italy. My name is Ben Hocking.

A warm welcome to. Sam Sage and Harry Ead. Good evening to you both. I think if we're all racing around a pasta dish this weekend? It's true, yeah. Unconfirmed until now, but yes, we are racing around a pasta dish. Your response to that, Harry? I don't have one, if we're being perfectly honest. Why a pasta dish? Have you heard it?

It just sounds like it, doesn't it really? Say it again, Ben, because I can't say it. Amelia Romagna. I'll have you Amelia Romagna. Would you like some Parmesan on the Amilia Romagna? Yes, please. I'd like some Parvazang on my Amilia Romagna. I should apologise now to all Italian listeners for butchering that.

So I think we'll call it the San Marino Grand Prix from now on because that's what it should be anyway. Much better. Come on. Why isn't it the San Marino GP? I don't really know. But they did this with the Nurembergering as well, didn't they? There was no reason not to call that the German GP. I think...

Wasn't there, wasn't there, wasn't there, Hockenheim own the rights to German GP? But I would still would have called it the European or Luxembourg GP. Anyway, this is off tangent. Yeah, wow, this is early even for us to go off topic. But we've got plenty to discuss tonight. Coming up on today's show, Pierre Gassley has been confirmed as one of the Alpha Tauri drivers.

Our reaction to that news, no news on whoever the second driver is there at the moment. Lando Norris has apologized on social media following some recent comments. We'll discuss whether what he said was wrong. And speaking of comments, Max Verstappen is in hot water following team radio comments directed at Lansstrol. We'll review those. And F1 teams have agreed in principle that driver salaries should be capped from 2023 onwards. Our opinion on whether that should go ahead. But first of all, F1 returns to Imola for the first time in 14 years.

Sam, do you think Imola has the potential to give us a good race, considering the races that have occurred on returning in new circuits this year. Imala is one of the most sentimental and fantastic tracks in Formula One. It's got so many memories, both good and bad for obvious reasons. I shan't dig into why, but if you know, you know, lads. It's one of those tracks that holds a lot of importance to a lot of people. And it's a fantastic lap to watch an F1 car, let alone any other kind of car, go round. If you sit around on board and hold on board from when we used to race there,

It's just fantastic to watch. Now, I've said this about the Mugelo Grand Prix. And I've said this about Port-Amal. And I was wrong both times. I was going to say the same thing about Imola. I feel like with the modern cars being 18 foot wide, there is a chance that we're going to have a very dumb Grand Prix. Now, Port-a-Mau was fantastic.

If you haven't seen it, go watch our reaction video. It's on YouTube now, and it's quite funny. Also, Mishello was mental. crazy. How many times you've seen half the Grig take it together out? What a race that was? Noberger Ring, also a bloody brilliant Grand Prix. So, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that, you know what?

We'll have a belter. Oh, that's done it. Oh, he's done it. It's going to be a show one. Thank you ever so much for listening. Good night. I have, yeah, I should have maybe listen to my own advice and said that every time it was a bad race, it's actually a good race. I think it's going to be good.

I think a lot of sentimental value is great. Imola is an old-school track. It has runoff zones. It has close barriers. You can make mistakes and you will be punished for those mistakes. I'm exciting. And that start and finish straight is long enough that moves will be made as well into a heavy breaking zone and you can go wheel to wheel through that first sector.

I'm really excited to see us back here. I'm hoping we get an absolute classic. It was currently this season, despite the whole pandemic and all the sadness that's come with it. This season has been a classic for some great racing. We've had some brilliant moments and some brilliant races this season. I'm hoping that Imola can turn that around again, deliver like it used to, and we can go out with a bang,

because good God, I love that Grand Prix. Harry, I mean, it's going to be a dull race this weekend now, but I'll ask you, anyway. Do you think Imala can produce a good race, even with Sam's jinx? Well, I mean, no chance after that, is there, to be honest. No, I'm with Sam.

I think it's just 2020 things, isn't it? It might on paper look like a dull race, but it's still be exciting. And to be fair, I think, like, it's a narrow track, is an old-school track, which will be tricky, and there will be mistakes made, and I think people will end up in the boonies. But the final, they've got rid of the chicane coming onto the final, onto the pit straight now, so it's just one huge long straight, and at the moment, F-1 cars need huge long straits to get past each other. So I think there will still be some action.

it'll be tricky to get past other cars but I think we'll still see something some action materialise and to be honest I'm just excited I'm just really excited to see cars around Imler like why it's taking so long to get back though I don't know I love the track so yeah I'm gonna be optimistic

and that's two optimistic opinions out of two so we've definitely cursed this now no doubt whatsoever I mean when Sam said it I thought we might get over it and it might just produce a good race, but now you've said it, Harry. I mean, you've had your one right thing this year, so I can't see it happening anymore.

Sorry. Anyway, I'm going to triple jinx it because I think it could be a good race as well. You're right, it is a narrow circuit, very similar qualities to Mugello. You have to consider that the last time we race there, 06, not an over, Imler's never been massive for overtakes,

at least in terms of quantity. Of course, like you referenced, Harry, the track is different from the last time we were there. But the cars are wider now, we have to say. They struggled in 06 to make overtakes. And I think the cars are not far off 10 inches wider now. So it's going to be even more difficult. And just like Mugello, it's probably going to be a case where turn one is going to be the only realistic place to make overtakes. You know, you might get an overtake or two going into the hairpin.

but realistically, I think term one is the only spot that's going to see a large amount of overtakes. But as I've referenced a large number of times, a large number of overtakes does not necessarily make a great race, just like a small number of overtakes does not necessarily make a bad race. Imola specifically, you can look back at 05 and indeed 06, the last two races we had there. Friling finale both times, no overtakes. You know, Alonzo versus Schumacher going in Alonzo's favor in 05, reversed in 06 with Schumacher coming out ahead.

And they had frilling battles on both occasions, but there were no overtakes that actually occurred. So I think that really does prove the point that there is the potential for a decent race. I do think there is also the potential for it to be dull, but who knows? It could go one way or the other. It is an old school circuit. I do enjoy it. I do enjoy how you are punished if you go wide, which is very easy to do, considering the narrowness of it. Bring it on. Let's see what happens.

And I think the other thing to mention really with Imola, of course, is that there is going to be no Friday running. It's just going to be Saturday and Sunday sort of trial almost of a two-day weekend. Interesting that they picked a circuit where a lot of the drivers don't have Formula One experience. Well, in fact, literally only Kimmy Rykenen does have Formula One experience. Sam, do you think that they were right to trial it on this weekend? And what effect do you think it will have on the race? I think it will affect all drivers equally. And actually, if you go back and listen to some of the previous content we've made recently,

I am a big advocate for teams knowing less going into a Grand Prix weekend. Formula One is often too calculated for its own good. It's too improbable for its own good. We need a little bit of insecurity, a little bit of uncertainty. I want drivers who are considering the best in the world. Betel, Hamilton, McLeer, the Stappan, Ricardo. I want these guys to have to go out there and find their feet to learn, to prove why they are able to be the best in the world,

not because they've got 18 years of data stacked up with Pirelli tires, also having done testing after testing after testing. Less practice for me is a positive. It's a shame that we're going to see cars on track for less hours over a weekend. Don't get me wrong, because we all have a bit of FP1 and FP2. But I think this is really positive. And I think we're going to see some really interesting results come the race, time. Drivers will not know how long tires last over a full stint. Qualifying times will be all

over the place. We might even see some reliability issues. You never know what might happen because the nigglings won't be sorting out earlier on in the weekend. I think this could be a real, really positive moment for Formula One. I hope we get to see some interesting racing. I hope we get to see some strange moments. And I think as we mentioned as one of the last podcast, in the offseason races that we could be having here, it gets cold in this part of Italy at this time of the year. it could be exciting. Look at the start of what happened at Porta now. Sites leads.

I mean, can it happen again? That'll be fantastic. And I think with less practice, less running, more different conditions, there's a chance of that happening more often. I am all for it. What do you reckon, Harry, do you think that the shortened weekend is going to be a bit spicy?

Yeah, I think it is. They've only got an hour and a half to set up their cars now as opposed to four hours, which they normally have. So yeah, it's like It's like we had at the Nürberg ring And, you know, that was a bit Well, I'm not saying this is a good case

But at the Nervaerbergring and qualifying Red Bull, I, Vestappen, was pretty close to the Mercedes So maybe this will help close the gap slightly If you know, Mercedes can't fine tune that car In the hour and a half they have on Saturday morning Yeah, I think it's bound to make things closer and as I'm said, the weather could also play a part if it's cold, like it has been a few races recently in Europe,

then it definitely could be spicy, and they've got so little data going into this that, yeah, I'm sad. I said this before we started recording. I'm sad that we're not going to see as much running around Imala as it deserves, but for the sake of the show, I'll take it. I'll take no F1 on Friday for a spicy race. Yeah, I think, to be honest, this two-day system is going to be the future.

I'm not sure if it's going to follow this exact pattern that we're going to see at I'm but I think F1 are going to use this as some sort of trial. And really, if it's successful at Imola where the teams have no previous experience whatsoever, really, you know, 14 years is a lifetime in the F1 world, if it works at Imola, theoretically it's going to work everywhere. So I think it's the big test for it. And I think it's going to pass with flying colors, really. The drivers out there are, or they're at least supposed to be,

the 20 best drivers in the world. And they need to be pushed. They need to go outside of their comfort zone, in my opinion. And this is one way in which you could do it. I think they get way too much time in order to fine-tune their car and set it up. I think being able to work things out on the fly, being adaptable, being versatile in a race situation is a real skill. And I think it's a skill that the drivers don't necessarily need to show enough at the moment.

And this is one way that it can achieve that. In terms of there being less running, I would agree, at least for this weekend, it would have been good to get as much running as possible just to see cars going around Imala. But going forward, this does give the opportunity, you know, to, I think to highlight Formula 2, Formula 3 and the W. series, which is coming on stream as well in terms of an F1 weekend. I think it gives a real opportunity to highlight all three of those series more than is currently the case. We see quite often with Sky Sports, and I'm not sure if it's Sky specifically or if F1 is to blame, but I don't want to say it's forgotten, but a lot of the time it is essentially strapped on the end of a Formula One

session, absolutely great entertainment, and I don't think it quite gets the respect that it deserves. leaving Friday as something of a feeder series day could well give them the spotlight they deserve. So that could be one benefit. Of course, there is also just the cost cutting measure as well. With 2020 the way that it's gone, it's affected everyone, and that does include even these Formula One teams, they're looking for ways to cut costs at the moment. Reducing one day's worth of running is definitely an easy way to achieve it. So I do think this is going to be the case going forward.

In terms of who this might benefit, we've spoken a lot and it's very plain to see that Valtrey Bottas does a very good job of starting a weekend well before Lewis Hamilton works his way into it, usually with two minutes to go in Q3 and then into the race on Sunday. Giving less practice time, taking away the second and third practice session, this might well benefit Bottas. If Bottas can get up to pace early,

and Lewis Hamilton doesn't actually have that time to respond, this could see him come away with the win. It would be interesting to see in that regard. Looking a bit further down, we've got six points separating third, fourth and fifth in the Constructors' Championship. That's a racing point on 126, McLaren on 124, and Renault on 120.

Sam, who do you think out of those three teams might game the upper hand this weekend? Oh, it's tough. that anyone that relies heavily on tracks that don't have corners might struggle here. And there is one of those teams, the yellow and black one, that hasn't done too well where tracks have got a lot of slower to mid-speed corners.

That is Renault. And they didn't do too well at Porta now. They didn't do badly at all. And I think that Ocon's strategy actually flattered how well Renno did because he drove so bloody well. And I can't go on a good race, but I think O'Conn't have a good race. Ricardo. So I think this can be difficult for them. I think this comes down to the McLaren

racing point fight. And the difference is, I think McLaren just have the level of skill that racing point don't. I think Perez will turn out a fantastic result as always, but I'm worried about stroll at the moment. He's kind of dropped off a little bit recently. The performance haven't been there too often. What a catastrophe he had last weekend. I mean, twice he was not round, once wasn't his fault, once desperately was. Whereas Norris, ironically the person that stroll ran into, and science have consistently just got some better and better and better

throughout the season. The car is not perfect. The car, if anything, I think, might be the worst of those three manufacturers. But I think that it's closing off that a track like this, with the ability that those guys have, I think they might just come out on top. What do you reckon, Harry, do you think one of those three teams will have the edge?

I still think racing point are they should be on top of all of the three of those teams. and I'm going to predict Sergio Piero's gets a podium every race now until he gets a goddamn podium. You're never right though. So he's never going to get one. So I know I would you know I'd fancy racing point to still be the quickest.

But as we've seen, you know, they've had unfortunate race incidents a lot this year and it's hurt their points tally. I don't think, well, they've had unfortunate race incidents and both they've had unfortunate race incidents. and both their drivers have got COVID, which is definitely unfortunate. Yeah, so that's definitely held their points tally. But yeah, who's to know? It's, you know,

racing, well, the last time racing point were at Imola, they were called Midland. Renno was technically still Renault, McLaren were way further up the equipment they used to be than they are now. So it's a long time since we've been to Imola. And I think it's a, a level playing feel for everyone. So it's whoever gets it set up quickly in the only practice session we'll have this weekend.

I think they'll be the ones on top. But I wouldn't bet against the racing point team to be the quickest on paper and on pace, but whether they actually come out with the most points that there remains to be seen. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to Physiakala and Reichen for the McLaren going head to head, throw Midland and in there as well. Maybe Christian Albers wants a run out. or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, he deserves it after what happened last time he was there. Eugene Ede. Punted him, as we said, into the shadow realm. I reckon it was Alba's fault. Shouldn't shut the door. Sometimes you just got to learn to give way to a better driver. Yeah, Ead was destined for the front row,

and I think that was career ruined because of Albers. Yeah, they'd probably be champion now, but here we are, here instead. Back to more serious matters. Third place going into this weekend. I think McLaren are bringing updates. So there is a chance that that will give them the edge. I would agree that racing point should be there or thereabouts again.

Stroll, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for that Algarf performance because it was pretty horrible. However, there have been more good weekends than bad weekends this year for him. So if he can turn it around, that does show something for the team, whether he does all. not remains to be seen, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Sergio Perez continues to turn in excellent performances. I still don't quite understand how he ended up where he did at Algarv. It's been a few days now. Still don't understand at all, but he's a wonderful driver.

He's a mythical driver. Couldn't think of a better word myself. But yeah, McLaren are bringing updates. And Lando Norris needs a decent performance here because Carlos Sines has started to put together a few good results now and edge the gap a little closer in their intra-team battle. Landon Norris has gone three races without scoring, so he could do it with a decent performance here. I think I'll give the edge to McLaren, depending on what those updates do, but I'll give them the edge. Pole 1, 2, 3. What have you got, Mr. Sage?

Pole is going to be Valtry Bottas. The winner will be Max Verstappen. Oh my, Bolly L. Second place will be Bop-Bot, and third place will be Louis Samuel Tang to the King of Felice Gabida. I'm glad you got specific with that. I was going to give you a follow-up question as to what the tune will be to go along with Louis-Samilatang.

Louis-Mittant. It works perfectly. This was saying. Thank you for that, Harry. And over to you for pole, one, two, three. Paul, I am also going to go for bot spot, as Sam's now calling in, apparently. And then for the winner, I'm also going for bot bot. And then Lewis Hamilton or Feliz Navidad will be in second place.

And in third place, you know it, will be Sergio Freaking Perez. Come on, lad. He'll do it one day. He'll do it one day. Well, what's better than porridge? Three lots of porridge is the answer, because, I'm going for Botas on pole as well. Absolute porridge cake galore.

There you go. I've given you something there. And I think he'll convert that into a race win as well. I've got Valtrey Bottas winning the race ahead of Lewis Hamilton in a shock murk one, two. And Max Verstappen will round out the podium in third. Bold prediction, Sam. Go. Well, is Max swinging a bold prediction? I think Oh, God, that's just ridiculous

I was going to say that album will finish fourth Oh, oh, oh, Sam Which I Yeah, Albon will finish fourth There you go, that's it, I'm going to stick with it Well, I've heard more bold ones, not going to lie But he hasn't been finishing there all that often Harry, what are you going for?

I'm going for, it's a repeat. You know, do not adjust your sets. This isn't the Portemal GP. This is the Amilia Romana pasturdish GP. On lap one, the top two will, or the people that started on the front way, will not, neither one of them will be on the lead by the end of lap one. And I'm not saying Carla's plans will be in the lead. But someone else will, who was not on the front row or the second row.

It's make it bolder. Wow, I'm all for that. Bring it on. The top four will be behind someone from fifth or back after the end of the first lap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I love that. Yeah.

I hope that comes true. Not of approval on that one. I'm going crazy here, lads. I'm not going to lie. Going absolutely nuts. Go on, Ben. Two Ferraris in the top six. Well, that's the end for this show.

thanks for watching folks. Keep breaking late. See you later. You need to play that when they both finish outside the point. Really? Yep, both Ferraris in the top six. They were good at Hungary. They'll be good here. End of statement. You're a moron. Blimey. I mean, to be fair,

Leverto had a sodded race. LaClair had a brilliant one or a brilliant weekend all round. I do think Ferrari are slowly but surely clawing their way back. I'm not saying they're going to be in the top six. That is quite bold, Ben. But I do think they're gradually getting some more pace out of that car. The engine is still garbage, as we saw when the Claire pulled out of the slipstream.

But I do think that car is improving. Yeah, I mean, Charlotte, Clair's a god. He'll work something out. And I just need to bring Vessel along with him. Well, I mean, if Vettel gets given the same car as the Clare, then... Oh, less of that. That's less of that. A little bit of spiced.

I've just opened a can of, oh, that's worms. Should we move on? Pierre Gasly. It's been confirmed that he has re-signed with Alfa Tauri for the 2021 season. Gassley currently sat ninth in the Drivers' Championship with a very healthy 63-14 advantage over his teammate Viat. So Sam, do you think that this is the right call to keep him in the junior team? Yes, I do. I think this is a very strong call from the Red Bull team. Well done. It's the first good decision you've made in a long time. They should not have promoted Pierre Gazley back up to Red Bull. They're letting him do what he should have done the first time around in the junior team. When it was Toro Rosso, they should have given him the years he needed to develop, become a regular midfield driver, get used to overtaking people, going wheel to wheel, getting into clean air, working a strategy, get, you know, all the things that you need.

to fight at the very top. Only a very few drivers have the elite caliber to jump straighting at a leading car. Not everyone could do it. Gasly is a good driver, that he is not the world-class talent that maybe someone like Lewis Hamilton was when he came in season one with McLaren. He needs that time to develop. He's getting that time to develop. And I think if he has another good season, not doesn't get a wing, okay, I think that was quite exceptional under exceptional circumstances, but as another good season next season, I have every, I have, I, I have, thought and hope that they will then bring him up to the Red Bull team. And I think they're going to put Gico Holgerberg in that car for next season.

Well, do you reckon, Harry, a good move for the team? Yeah, I think a good move for the team, good move for Gadsley. It's a good move of the team because I think Gisley's perhaps in the top four or five drivers this year. The man's been on bloody fire, particularly after the win, which obviously would help. would help your confidence. And for Gadsley is sensible. You know, if he had been promoted back up to Red Bull,

first I don't see, I don't think it would have happened anyway. I think they are going to go, if they don't go for Album, they'll go for someone outside. I think they've even said this themselves. But is there the rescue, he would go back,

and it's just, maybe it's just not the right environment for him at Red Bull. Toro Rosso, Toro, bloody hell. Out for Tauri. maybe that is the environment that suits him and he needs that environment

and not a Red Bull one where he's got Helmut Marco sniffing down his neck every 30 seconds asking him why he hasn't done better what a hideous thought the other thing I saw and this is an interesting take from Will Buxton who let's be honest is never short of interesting takes he said

imagine a matured rounded driver with a race winning pedigree and considered by most in the palette to be one of the top formulas of 2020 and then he goes back to Red Bull and struggles what would that say not about him but about the situation at Red Bull? I think it's a fair point. I mean, I'm not saying that's entirely the reason why Red Bull haven't picked him back up again, but you know, there have been questions asked now about Red Bull's junior program, its approach to the way it goes racing. And it would be, A, it's almost a bit of a slap on the face for them anyway to get Gatsy back in the car, having only dumped him half or a year ago now.

And B, is it going to raise further questions about how they run their team? If Gassi did go about there, we know how good he is now. He's proven this year what a good driver he is with the right mentality, attitude, people around him. Is it going to prove that Red Bull is just a toxic pot for drivers, unless he names Max Verstappen? I don't know. So, yeah, interesting one. But in terms of the move for next year, I think it's the right one for him and for Alfa Tauri. Yeah, I like this move for both parties as well.

Focusing on Red Bull first of all, yeah, I mean, the whole process was screwed up the first time. You could argue that it was down to Gasly. You can argue it was down to Red Bull. But for whatever reason, it did not work the first time. So they need to ensure, because I think they do have a good driver on their hands here, They need to ensure that they manage this correctly the second time around. He's had a really good season. It would be great to see him have one more good season before they consider him for a promotion.

They rushed him into it the first time. They don't want to make that mistake again. It will embarrass the team. It will mean that they can't beat Mercedes or don't at least have a chance to beat Mercedes. And it could destroy, it could destroy Ghazli permanently. You know, we saw what happened to Kviyat when he was dropped. It only took him being dropped once for him to fall off the race. radar really. Gazley has done a great job of getting back up to speed and putting himself back

in the conversation and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But we don't want to see him go back there again, struggle and then for his career to fall down from there. I think he's too talented for that to be the case. And at the moment, I would agree that with Red Bull, the second driver position isn't working out. And it's tough to say why. And I don't think anyone really knows as much as they think they might do. I don't think anyone knows what is happening, whether it is the drivers, whether it is the environment, or whether it is a mixture of the two. That would be my best guess at the moment. If it was completely down to the environment, Ricardo wouldn't have done as well as what he did. You know, Ricardo was there with Vastappen. There wasn't really anything to

separate the two drivers. So if it was completely down to environment, that wouldn't have happened. But at the same time, the last two drivers that have stepped into the role, Ghazley and Albin, and essentially the same result. They've been nowhere near. And it could well be down to how Vastappen sets up his car and Albin and Gassely not getting along with that. There are a lot of theories at play here. And I think at the moment it's too difficult to say which way it goes. If Red Bull do decide to put another driver in the car, say Perez or Hulke and Berg,

is apparently the rumours suggest now, if either of those two go into the car and they succeed straight away, then that doesn't look good on Gasly or Alman because, you know, it kind of shows them up. However, if Holkenberg or Perez go into the car and they've done very good jobs elsewhere, and they can't keep up with Max Verstappan either, then suddenly you have to question what they're doing with that second seat. So whatever happens with that second red bull seat next season is going to be a defining moment, I think, for the team and for the drivers that have been in that role.

I'm glad that Gazley's going to have that second season in Alpha Towery. Like you say, he's been one of the best drivers so far this year, deserves another year. And he has a real chance to be a big time player in 2022. He's been heavily rumoured to Renno. That obviously hasn't happened in 2021. Whether it happens in 2022 or not, might depend on how well he does next season. But Gasly has real potential because we don't know what's happening with that second seat at the moment. but there's every chance it's not Danny Kaviyat in that role again.

There's every chance it's Yuki Sonoda. And maybe even Alex Albin goes back to the team. Regardless of which one it is, if it's not Danny Kaviyat, Gazzley has an opportunity to show what he can do against another opponent. He has an opportunity to get another feather in his cap. What he's done to Danny Kaviat

and the way he has convincingly beaten him has been very, very impressive. But if you do that to two drivers, that means a heck of a lot more. So if Gassley can do the same thing against whoever his team, teammate is next year. That puts him in a great spot for 2022, either to get promoted to the Red Bull team when these new cars and the budget cap is fully settled in, or it gives him the opportunity to go

away to the likes of Renault. But I like this move from both parties. Should we move on? Should we move on to some comments? It seems as if Team Radio is a bit prevalent this weekend. So I will start with the Lando Norris situation. Lando Norris has apologized on Twitter following comments made over the Portuguese Grand Prix weekend. Norris said that he has been stupid and careless and that he hasn't shown the respect he should have to certain people. Norris didn't say what comments he was referring to. However, it was likely it was either or both.

Comments made towards Lanchdrol following their collision in the race or saying that Lewis Hamilton's record-breaking win didn't really mean anything to him and a Mercedes should be winning every race anyway. Harry, what are your thoughts on this? Look, it's a tricky one. Unless we are just facing on Norris first, because I don't think any of us want

racing drivers to be, you know, robots. We don't want them to just say what the media and teams and the PR people want them to say, want them to have character. And, you know, the comments from Norris made about not about stroll heat at the moment they weren't horrific and I'm sure you know there have been worse and there have been worse

I've just happened but I don't think they were too out of there the ones with Hamilton again I just he's not the first racing driver or sportsman in history to speak out of line and I don't think it's probably just the way he put it and you know these guys are racing drivers are not you know

trained to be on the TV I mean they are trained but they're not meant to be on the TV all the time They're not presenters. They're not pundits. They are literally racing drivers. So they're bound to slip up and say things in the way they didn't mean. And I think, you know, Norris is of the generation where he grew up watching Hamilton. He watched Hamilton won his first world championship.

So I think the respect he has for Lewis is huge. And I just think the comment he made was just a silly one. And I don't think he, I don't know whether he meant it. I don't know. But I don't think it changes it. how he feels about Lewis. I didn't think, to be honest, he needed to apologise,

if I'm being honest. He apologised for the straw ones straight after the race on the team radio. Fair enough. Again, yeah, we've heard worse. But, yeah, I don't think he needed to apologize, to be honest. I like racing drivers speaking out a little bit, not too much, like Max.

But, yeah, let's not completely sanitise them, I think. Yeah, we will move on to what Vestappen had to say in a little bit. But Sam, in terms of Norris' comments, what would you make of them? I'm going to break it into two halves, because they are two separate comments. I do believe the apology was based around both statements that he made. Let's talk about the team radio first. Formula One and all sports, especially ones where you're travelling around an average being of 180 to 200 miles an hour, is intense.

You know, there is life-threatening moments. You have a drowning pumping. scary. It's, you know, aggression field. And you need to be at the very top of your game all the time. So when someone collides into you, that is a, you know, that's worrying, that's scary. That is also devastating because that's all

your efforts thrown out the window. I have no issue with drivers getting a bit rowdy. I think there's a line, but I have no issue with drivers getting a bit rowdy. The amount of times on this podcast where I'm sat in a bloody chair, we've had to edit out me swearing is ridiculous. I swear when I stub my toe.

So if someone drives into me at 150 miles an hour, I probably will swear over a team radio if I had one in my Fiat, which I don't. But I have no issue with it. There's a line. Again, we'll get onto the line in a minute when we talk about another driver. There is a line. We've seen things in the past, right? We've seen helmets be throwing at each other. We've seen drivers stormed down the pit lane. We'll get to punch on another. We've seen the other driver we're going to talk about in a minute, put his hand on one driver and try and throw him out of the pit lane. It gets heated, but there is a line. I think Norris did not cross that line with just a general swear word.

Sweareran, I think, is fine, you vent it off. And he even apologised for that over the team radio. To me, that's quite all right. I do have a little bit of an issue with the Lewis Hamilton coming. I don't think it's rude or anything like that. I just think it's quite dismissive. And I think it also shows to me that that Norris maybe doesn't understand the effort that went into what Hamilton has achieved.

Norris has come out throughout the history of being in Formula One. I said that Hamilton was almost like his racing hero growing up. You know, he's the man that he admired. And when they were stood together at one point in the first season, Norris was awestruck. He was, he was dobsmacked that he was there with Lewis. And if you're a racing driver and someone breaks the all-time record of wings in your sport,

and you go, yeah, he should be doing it really. So when Norris, I know, if, which he probably won't, beats Hamilton's record, I expect him to not care that he's done it. I expect him to not be bothered that he's won a race. When he does win his first race, I expect him to go, yes, all right. I was in the right car, I should be doing it, shouldn't I? It's a bit of a throwaway coming, and I think it takes away from the absolute effort of winging an F1 race.

There's not a lot of people that have won F1 races. Pierre Gassley, I think, was what, 103rd or something like that? Out of all the drivers we've ever had, only 103 have ever won a race. And Norris is just shrugging his shoulders on it. I don't think it's rude. I don't think he has to Apollo goes for it. I'm just a bit surprised at the level of, I don't care. attitude from him. That's all. That was my only thought on it. I expect him to care a bit more about

the grounds of the sport that he loves and walks to racing and makes a living out of. That's all. If he doesn't really care for Lewis's victory, then I expect him to not care about his own when that time comes around. In terms of the stroll comment, I've got no problem with it whatsoever. I believe that if you are to introduce team radio, you are occasionally going to get moments like this. like you said, Sam, they are going to crash at a certain mile per hour that is incredibly scary. And I'm sure 95%, if not more, people within that same position would have come out with the same, if not worse, in terms of language. So I've got no problem with drivers swearing at one another over team radio. It's sport.

You know, it's sport, it's elite, it's going to happen. and if you, you know, it's similar to bringing the interviews after a race down to, you know, down to Part Fermé rather than up on the podium, giving them even less time to process things. This is in the moment. You're going to get moments like this. I've got no problem whatsoever with it. He apologised, which I think is fair enough.

So I think that's a bit of a non-entity. The stuff about Lewis Hamilton, I don't agree with what Norris said. just because, yeah, he did dismiss the achievement as something as he only has to beat one or two drivers, which if you are referring to 2020, then yes, that is the case. And I guess if you want to extend that to maybe 2014 or something like that, then he only had one driver to be on a regular basis. But the fact of the matter is the 92 wins is a lifetime achievement. It's a career achievement.

It's not a 2020 achievement. So whilst he has only had to beat Botasan occasionally Vastappen this year, he has had to beat Ferraris, you know, when they were stronger. He's had to beat his teammate over his entire career. He's had to beat Ferraris in 07 and in 08. He's had to beat, you know, he's had to beat Red Bull when they've been strong in previous years as well.

So I think it is dismissive to assume that he's only got a few drivers to beat. And ultimately that happens up. and down the grid. It's not just the first guys. It's not only Mercedes who only have to compete with Ferrari or Red Bull. This happens all up and down the grid. They, they naturally break off into their own packs. If you were to consider, for example, McLaren last season, they were very comfortably the fourth best team. And you could argue, you could argue that they shouldn't have been beaten by anyone else other than their teammate when going for seventh or eighth place. So I think this is so natural that it happens.

I don't actually think he needed to apologize though, because I think he's fully entitled to his view. He said he was happy for Lewis Hamilton. I don't understand what he's apologising for. If that's his view, fair enough. There's nothing offensive about it. If it doesn't mean anything to him, it doesn't have to mean anything to him.

He's got his own career. If he is thinking for himself, go right ahead. I don't really think he needs. needed to apologise. I don't agree with him. But yeah, like to say, don't think you needed to apologise. Vastappen's comments were, it's a bit of a different matter. Of course, Lando Norris did swear over team radio. Max Vastappen said a couple of derogatory terms. What did you make of them, Harry? And the fact that there has been no retrospective action whatsoever, at least at the moment.

Yeah, so we can, I totally accept the Norris swearing over the radio. Like everybody said, if you did have a crash at 150 miles an hour, if it was me, I would still be screaming right now. And I'd still have the steering were like clutched in my hands. So fine, that's all good. But the derogatory terms, that's just not acceptable. You can't do that. And you're talking about a fellow driver on the track that you race with.

And it doesn't matter who it is. You can't use those terms. And I am surprised that, you know, nothing, you know, he didn't even, you know, at least get like a reprimand or any sort of sanction for it. Because, yeah, it's not the first time Max's latest temper get the better of him. You know, Sam's already referenced it in Brazil, 2018, when he shoved off on. he did get a punishment for that although it was to go sit and watch

Formula Re, which seems like a bizarre punishment but anyway, because formulae is banter. Yeah, I don't understand why there's been nothing and no investigation into it to be honest because, yeah, you can't use those words especially, I know it's bleaked out on the world feed but Twitter found them to the uncensored versions within about 30 seconds

and then it was plastered all over there. So, you know, a lot of people heard what he said about Strong. So, yeah, a surprising one. And, and, yeah, Matt's can't do that. You know, it was a stupid accident they had in practice, but still, you can't say things like that. What did you make of the comments, Sam? They were awful.

They were absolutely awful. I mean, there are obviously a number of groups that you could be derogatory to. And let's take another example. Let's say that in practice, the staff are actually crashing to Lewis Hamilton, who is black. He is, you know, a person of colour.

He's someone that is very vocal about that. Imagine if the staff on the radio turned around and said the usual discriminatory words that people like to use against a person of colour, which is also incredibly awful. There should be absolute uproar. Actually, you know what? Let's take Lewis Hamilton out the car.

Let's put Sophia Flourishing. the car. Don't think she's going to be there any time soon, that's another argument. And let's see that Sophia Floresh crashes into Max Verstappen, and he uses some female derogatory term. There will be absolute uproar and it would not be stood for, and it would be terrible. So why is it any different when you say something horrible about a disabled person? Someone that physically can't get into the sport either. A woman can definitely race in the sport, a black man can definitely race in the sport, people of colour can easily race in the sport. a disabled person may aspire to watch Formula One for their entire life.

They may love this sport. They may adore it endlessly. And it might only ever be a dream for them to do anything related to it. And with a throwaway comment like that, Max Verstappen has a, it is awful. It is so horrible that you've said that publicly about something. You shouldn't be saying it in your private life, let alone on a radio like that, about a silly thing in practice. And the fact that there has been not a single mention of it from the FIS.

from F1, from Red Bull, from any other team driver, from any other team is astonishing. It is so all we race as one is literally the motto of Formula One. I've got a poster of it. There it is, the charity poster where the founding went to it. It's a fantastic, massive post with Re-Racers 1, plastered on it, and someone like that turns around and says something horrible about a group of people that can't really defend themselves, nothing is done. You can swear, you can have a go at each other,

but you don't need to be sat there being derogatory and disgusting towards people that they don't even get the platform to defend themselves in our sport. So for me, not all right, not okay. There needs to be some kind of punishment for him. And I would go as far to say that that's a race ban. I don't think he deserves to have another go right now because I think that is absolutely appalling. You don't get to say that in my book. Anywhere else, football, rugby, tennis, you'd be on world news.

So for me, not all right. Yeah, we race as well. when we feel like it, when it suits us. If you aren't going to apply We Race as 1 across the board for all situations, then don't bother having it as a strapline to begin with F1. These comments were completely unacceptable. No other way around it. And if the situation had occurred where he had used the words that he did,

and he had come out afterwards and he apologized straight away to the fans, to the individual himself and said, you know, that he used this term, he knew he shouldn't have used this term, and he will do better. I could at least put some respect on that, but that's not how that it's gone down. Bostappen doubled down after saying these words, saying that, you know, if people are offended, it's their problem, which is quite frankly, absolutely ridiculous. And if something is not acceptable, which this absolutely is not acceptable, treat it as such. It's ridiculous. If I go out and murder someone, I am treated as such.

If I go out and I steal from a shop, I am treated respectively because of that. If he is on a global scale, he is a role model for thousands upon thousands of people around. the glow. And F1 are coming out with absolutely no action whatsoever and it essentially says that this is absolutely acceptable to do. We've made the case just a few minutes ago that sometimes it gets heated over team radio. But there is a distinct difference between using a throwaway word and a word such as this that completely is completely derogatory. It's not acceptable. And to those defending him, give it up. It's not okay. I don't care what driver says it. This would be my reaction, regardless of whether it was Vestappen or any of the other 19 drivers on the grid. And he should

be punished accordingly. And you referenced very rightly the formulae punishment he had as a result of the Ocon incident. He needs to be punished, but not just for the sake of it. Punishment should always be about learning and self-improving. He should understand why what he's said was not okay. Make his punishment with that in mind, but clearly they're not going to listen to me. They're not going to listen to a lot of people who think this as well. It's not acceptable whatsoever. And this is not this is not the stap and hate. This is not hatred towards a particular driver. This would be my reaction regardless of whatever driver said it on the grid. It's to do with the words, honestly. It really annoyed me. Let's move on.

to driver salaries. So according to motorsport.com, F1 teams have agreed in principle to a $30 million driver salary from 2023 onwards. So 145 million budget cap is coming in next season, but driver salaries are not included in this. 30 million salary would have to cover both drivers,

so it could be split however they choose, 2010, 15, 15. Harry, do you agree? with this as a cost-cap-y measure? I'm not, I think so. I think I agree with it. Everyone has to become a cheaper sport. And, you know, I think Liberty Media,

Chase Carey, you know, the guys of the top are actually finally making some, you know, reasonable efforts to do this. I mean, effort's still going to be expensive, no matter. how you look at it, but some of the costs are currently astronomical. It's an interesting one, and, you know, particularly regarding a certain six times 92 winner, 92 times winner, Lewis Hamilton, because he's currently on a lot more than the proposed salary cap is. And he doesn't have a contract for next year. I'm not saying he's not going to sign, but, you know, his options going forward,

he may get less money. Maybe he'll only do a year or two or I don't know. It's a tricky one. And, you know, why isn't Lewis Hamilton worth 40 million whatever he's on at the moment? He is because he is arguably one of, if not the greatest driver, ever raced in Formula One. So he should be worth that much money.

And, yeah, it is. But that being said, I think there's still, you know, there's sort of disparity in the salaries between the drivers. and I'm not saying they shouldn't be, the better drivers should be paid more money. That's just obvious. But maybe it's in excess at the moment. I don't know.

It's a real tricky one. And I kind of admire Liberty for doing this and trying to make F1 a more sustainable sport because that's what we want. We don't want it to just become obsolete because no one can afford to be in it, to drive in it, to work in it. So I've got respect for that.

It's just a tricky one to how you measure how much a driver is worth. I think that's a really tricky one to do. Yeah, it's an interesting debate this one. Sam, what do you think? Do you think that they should go ahead with this? Honestly, I really don't know. I'm quite tall on the idea. I think it will, I ain't got a clue what day is Father's Day.

I don't know, Sunday probably. it's interesting because I think there's a lot of workarounds. I also think it would cause a lot of disparity and I think there might be some difficult discussions at teams. For example, let's take Mercedes as the option. Hamilton is on more money than Valtry Bottas. It's not going to be a secret. There's no, and to be honest, Valtry doesn't deserve you on the money that Lewis Hamilton's on.

Hamilton's about to become a seven-time world champion. Valtry Bottas is not. Hamilton deserves the extra pennies in his pocket at the moment. But, as Harry's on a reference, if Hamilton's on 40 or million now and the cap for a whole team for both their drivers is 30 million, then what happens? Well, I think there's going to be a workaround already

unless they put it into the rules that I think sponsors will end up playing a much larger part. And this can be difficult for drivers that can't attract a sponsor, which means that pay drivers, theoretically, will have way more access into the sport than maybe people like Lewis Hamilton, him back at the day who didn't have a lot of sponsors. He was picked up because of his talent.

Younger teams or teams with less money further down that can't even hit the cost cap at the moment might look for drivers that bring more sponsorship in because they'll pay their wages, means they have more money to go towards it and they want them to do. That's one issue, right? Or someone like Lewis Hamilton might pick up the 20 and Bottas gets a 10 and then Tommy Hill figure, a monster and whoever else wants to sponsor him, might give another undrill on top. And they'll be playing sailing. But then the other I might not go the other way. And the other side of things,

there are teams where drivers are considering equal or close together. And I feel like this pay wall will create a more defined first and second driver. Because surely the wages will have to be public knowledge. So it's able to be tracked and seen. So imagine if Carlos Sikes is going to leave for Ferrari. Well, Carlos Sainz won't want to get paid less than Shal-A-Cleur. But you might have to be. What if Shal-A-Cleur is on 20?

and Carlos Seitz is on 10. He's not going to be happy with that. There's going to be a real issue there. They will kick off. And that will realistically mean that Ferole will obviously back their first driver. The same might be said for McLaren. Adam Norris wants to become maybe the feature boy at McLaren

and arguably deserves to do so. He's done very well so far. But Danny Ricardo is a race winner and he's going to use to join. He's got a lot of expertise. theoretically, you pay Daniel Ricardo more. But is that fair? I don't know.

And I think there'll be arguments about it. I think there'll be issues with it. I think it will mean that some teams might hire a cheaper driver to bringing a more expensive driver on top. You might pay 5 mil into an F2 driver, but get 25 mil for Danny Ricardo. It's interesting.

It will cause a lot of debate. I'm still not sure what side I'm on of that debate. I'm really interested to see how it goes. I'm interested if we lose drivers or if we gain someone who we didn't expect to, who maybe has a lot of wealth in the background. I'm all up for seeing how it goes. And as Harry said, I admire my liberty

for trying to do something different and bring down those astronomical costs because it is tough for teams to join this sport currently. I'll tell you what, Fernando Alonzo isn't sticking around after 22, is he? Not what is coming in. So that. I'm off, mate. No, I mean, Fernando Alonzo will get his 29.8 million and go to Pierre Gasley.

Like, here's 200k, son. Go buy yourself a Walkman. You can rent the shed at the back of my mansion. This is definitely going to happen. This is a weird one. I completely agree with a driver's salary cap. I also don't agree this should go ahead, which is a really weird statement, but stick with me on this.

I agreed completely when the budget cap came in in the first place. You know, they've said it $145 million. And at the time, I said that driver salaries should absolutely be included in that overall amount. And it wasn't, along with the top three earners of each team. also excluded from this cap. And I didn't agree with that element of it, but the budget cap was in place. You know, it was a good start nonetheless. The reason I agree with the budget cap is twofold.

Firstly, there is that cost saving element, which this driver, you know, this measure would account for. So it ticks that box. But the other and for me, possibly more important element, is parity. You know, it's looking to take away finance as the over. overriding reason that teams win. Mercedes are brilliant, but the reason they win predominantly is because they outspend everyone very comfortably with the exception of Ferrari. Equalling that up should theoretically lead to other factors be more important in terms of gaining points and gaining victories.

Suddenly, it's not just about finance. It's more about talent. It's more about efficiency within the team, something we know the likes of racing point have done very well over the years. It opens it up more. But this wouldn't do that. You know, you would have that driver salary separate as that 30 million from the 145 million.

And unless they're combined together, then I don't agree with this. Ultimately, at the moment, I think it is only Mercedes and Ferrari this year, racing point next year, who it would affect, because I think it's only really Vettel and Bethel and Hamilton that really impact it.

I guess when Alonzo comes in as well, that might have an impact on it, although I think Ocon is cheap enough that maybe they'll get away with it with the 30 mil. A lot of these teams, it's not even going to affect. The benefit of having it included in an overall pot means that we get some very intriguing situations where teams are forced to make decisions. Do they splash out on a better driver and pay them 20 or 30 million? or do they reinvest that elsewhere in the car? And we could get some very interesting situations.

It's going to be about offsetting and what direction you go down, how important is having a Lewis Hamilton in that car, and that's where you'll get their value from. Those situations won't occur with this current solution that they've put together, which is why I disagree with it. It's very much the sort of NFL way of thinking where every team has a budget cap. And I'm a big NFL fan. I think it works very well because each team has the ability to spend as much as all of the other 31 teams.

And suddenly your efficiency, how, you know, team chemistry and things like that become ever more important. And I was hoping we'd get that with F1 as well. But whilst it's separate, I don't agree with it. And that is one hour of Formula One chat, ladies and gents. And I think we'll round that off there. Sam, if you wouldn't mind, doing the honours, getting us out of here for the San Marino. Yes, I'm calling it that, Grand Prix. I'm going to call it the Sam Marino Grand Prix because I want to.

If you've enjoyed the podcast, share it, maybe follow us, give us a review. Talk to us on Twitter. Let's know what you thought. We've talked about a lot in this, actually, a lot more than I thought it would. It's a very good conversation. Interesting, I want you think about all the topics that we spoke about and what your thoughts are going to be on the San Marino Grand Prix. We are very excited for it. It's going to be a two-day running.

What do you think about that? Should it be always two-day? Get over to Twitter. Talk to us, get to YouTube, watch your videos, hit, like, hit, subscribe over there. We really appreciating it. In the meantime,

I'd be Samuel St. I've been Ben Hawking. I've been Michael Andretti. I remember, keep breaking late. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.