The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Will McLaren challenge Red Bull in 2024?!

Episode Date: October 15, 2023

In the last episode before we head off to Austin, the LB boys discuss what chance McLaren have of being Red Bull's biggest challenger next year. They also discuss concerns over Perez's form for 2024, the future of Ferrari Academy driver Oliver Bearman following his recent test drive, and the teams' and drivers' responses to the FIA's approval of Andretti. They finish with a game of F1: Overrated/Underrated.. *Please note: As we are attending the US GP next week, the Preview episode will be released on Thursday evening (CT) and the Review episode will be released on Monday. * FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League BUY our Merch EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 Podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Very well, welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. Sam, there's three of us again. What's going on? There's three. All baby news, three.

Honestly, I love it. It's all three of us. We'll be a triple. It's like a high. It's like a rush. It's going to be three of us for so many episodes. Well, obviously, but I mean in succession. We're getting good at this.

Thank you. How many episodes are we? 321? No, we're at 3.3. No, this is 3-3. We're nearly at 3-33. 3-3. 3-0 this is.

This is 3-3-1. 3-1. And then... I can't wait for the qualifying review of America. The live show is 332. And then the quality review show. Why don't we time that to be... Let's stick another episode, random episode in there.

I want the live one to be three, three, three. Five minute interview of Clive's Pigglesworth. I should bring a suit to throw that. So we can come in. He's in the suitcase. What we talk about, then? Do you like a half? Turn around.

Posh. One halves a suit with like one glass on. It's great content. This is a great start for the show. New listeners will be going what on earth is going on? We just listen to a dubstep playlist. get hyped. So there you go. Yeah, it's an unexpected start to this podcast recording session, but here we are. Coming up on today's episode, Teams and Drivers responding to Andretti and the news

that the FIA has approved them. So our thoughts on how that's gone down, Olly Berman, getting an F1 debut in practice later on in the season, our thoughts on that. Before we get into our first topic, as mentioned on the last episode, and I told you folks, I'd say it twice. So there's no complaining when you don't know where the episode is on Wednesday. The episode will be a day late when we come to the US preview next week in a few days' time, as will be the case when this goes out. It will be on Thursday, not Wednesday. Very sorry, but don't moan.

Also US time. So if you're in the UK and you're going, it's even later than normal, where is it? In the UK, it's probably going to be on Thursday. It's probably going to be on Friday. That's my point, though. So like, don't wait till Thursday morning. It'll be Friday morning if you're in Europe. Get an early night.

Yeah. Wake up. Good night to sleep. Make yourself a little cup of tea in the morning. Yeah. Sit down and go, it's race weekend. And late break is right here. Bangorang.

Stop saying bangorang. Can't stop. Won't stop. Squillex not included. Should we actually talk about some Formula One? Yes. McLaren. They're doing pretty well at the moment, aren't they?

Given where they were at the start of the year. And now, 2024, the attention is turning to that. season. Obviously, we've got both championships wrapped up for this year. So what are your thoughts on McLaren for 24? Do you think that they could present themselves as the biggest challenge to Red Bull's dominance? Do you think it's something they could get quite close to achieving? Or is it just going to be a case of them being a distant best of the rest? Historically, McLaren goes through waves of being really good. You know, they had it with Prost and Senner, and then they took a bit of a break, and then they had it with obviously Coulthard and Hackingham.

On the way round, please. Other way round, please. I can't do it, man. And then they did a little break again. And then they came back with Hamilton and Alonsoe. And they had a little break. And now they seem to be re-emerging with Norris and Piastri. And it's not just Norris and Pilastry that are filling me with hope as a driver line up.

Because they are settled. It feels like in all areas. They're comfortable. They're calm. They're put together. They are organised and prepared. Drivers are signed up now till what, both of them until the end of 2025. End of eternity.

Yeah. Yeah, they may as well be there till I actually die of old age. We'll be dead. Yeah. Anyway, so they're there to. I think the end of 2025, start of the new regs. They've got this new three leading principal section with Stella overseeing it all. Zapp Brown and CEO, yeah, yeah.

And, of course, the three pillars, the technical director. And then there's a few other names that I'm not clever enough to remember. Do you remember? No. Good. Orange director. Yeah, that's one, papaya one. And head of Honda director.

God. What did you just say, Chrome? Head of Chrome. It's like it's Google. I'm the sponsored by Google. Anyway, that's settled, and it seems to be having an immediate impact. The culture of McLaren seems to be feeling a lot more positive. It has a direction.

Zach Brown, I feel like, is actually taking a bit of a step away, a step back from the Formula One style of things. He's still very much a spokesman, and he's very much the face of the operation. But I don't think we see him as involved as much day-to-day. And I think Stella has really grown into that role, which is quite lovely to see. I feel like he's really embraced it. And he's been allowed time to settle by Zach Brown,

which I think's really good because you've got to remember when Sidel left, Stella was kind of thrown into that role. It wasn't really something any of us were expecting at the time. Now, the other thing that fills me with promise is that they've made all this growth this season without their new wind tunnel that's just been finished, right? This brand new state-of-the-art wind tunnel's just been completed. I think about a month ago now it's completed.

So if they're able to make the leaps and games that they made from... I've said it, it feels like a thousand, times now from 17th of D&F in race one to comfortably race after racing out being the second fastest car. It feels like more often than not, they are the second fastest car on the track. And the gap is getting smaller to Red Bull. And I really do think that a challenge is possible. I'm not going to, you know, shoot for the moon here. I'm not going to go over the top. I don't think they're going to be there. Race one, boom, landing or as Oscar Piascrii first and second in the championship. But it does feel like a.

a realistic possibility, which if you go ask me five, ten races ago, do I think that this is a realistic possibility? Would McLaren be the potential next charges to take on Red Bull? I'll probably go on, what did you have last night that allows you to be a bit giddy? Because this doesn't make any things to me. I have some. Yeah, I would love some of that. And you know what?

Apparently it's working for the Orange team because they are soaring high. They feel more comfortable, more put together, more aware of where they're going of their direction than Masege's do. Ferrari are Ferrari and Ascom Martin are free-falling at the moment massively. So it really does feel like if they can keep it together, and I think the emphasis is on if they can keep it together, then if you're a Maco fan, if you're a Piaz fan, your hopes have got to be high.

I do think it is reasonably possible. But we might come across as absolute idiots, but we're not inexperience when it comes to how Formula One teams like to do their research, right? And that Red Bull car... Very well-tuned, Dickens. We're seeing it with Mercedes. You saw it with cars previously that domination, that when you are that dominant in the current season,

you know you can lift off the gas on your current car and start development as early as possible on next year's car, especially with cost cap coming into play. Red Bull have been working on that car now since probably the summer break, arguably beforehand. Every other team will have to play catch-up again. They've got another head start. It's still going to be incredibly,

difficult to even come close to them, race by race. I really do think it's going to have to be an opportunistic, get a lucky break, do a bit of thieving and nicks and personnel off them. You know, you've really got to play the dirty, difficult game, I think, to jump a very dominant team. And it's something that Red Bull did brilliantly when they were looking to catch Mercedes in the previous dominant era. So, yes, it's possible.

Yes, I have hope for them, but I do not think this is a, I think it's less likely that they do it, but more likely than any other team currently. If you were to put the car to one side for just a moment, Sam, obviously there's a very good chance that Red Bull turn up with just as dominant a car, but let's just put it to one side for the moment. The line up specifically, the driver line up, is it ready? Yeah. I actually think it is, I sound that's quite seductive when I said that, didn't I?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you again. Choo-2-2 all aboard the Oscar Piastri Hype train. I am on it. I'm the conductor. Tickets, please. Sam's shoveling the cold.

Tickets, please. Honestly. Old fashion, is he? Yeah. Honestly, I think Lando Norris has now got all it takes to lead a team across a season. We saw his development under Carla Sikes. It grew massively. He's really developed into a real forefront runger in Formula One.

He's not taken the absolute final step that I will have expected by now to win something. You know, Ricardo won something when they were teammates. Sikes didn't win a race with McLaren, but he picked up, regular podiums when Norris didn't, but that was in... One podium, yeah. Yeah, was in more development. I guess they were in a different stage in their career. But as much as Norris was very good,

Carlos Snotes kind of had the edge. And Piastri has almost leapfrogged him to wing something here. But it tells me, I think, that the general pace that we're seeing from Norris is race-winging capable. He just needs a clean break. He just needs a clean weekend to get the job done, you know? Stop bottling it.

Yeah, it was a bit of a bottle job behaviour this week, the most recent weekend we had in Qatar. And Piastri didn't bottle it, but he definitely wasn't the fastest of the two. But over a season, we've already seen Piusry turning out regular fantastic performances. He's so calm. He's so level-headed. Most rookies, I would say, nah, they need to another full season. I don't think it is for Piacery.

And Norris is comfortably well into his F-1 career now. He's got what it takes. If the car is ready, I think he'll get the bit between his teeth. And I think we'll see a different side to Norris going, I actually can win a title here. I'm going to step it up a level. Bit like what we've seen with Hamilton, same with the Stappen. They have the ability to just go that one actually. a step. I think both of them have it, but I think Norris is ready to unleash it.

One of the, for me, at least weirdly encouraging things if you're a Norris fan at the weekend was despite Oscar Piastri obviously finishing ahead of him in both in both races, both the spring race and the feature race, and Priester, you know, being able to hold it together where Norris couldn't. Norris had a horrible weekend and finished third in the spring race and third in the main race. If that's a bad race, and it was a pretty bad weekend for Norris in terms of errors made, you're doing all right, double podium. So that's probably an encouraging sign for him.

But if that's towards the bottom end of his performances, Harry, what are your thoughts on McLaren's opportunity to challenge Red Bull and 24? I would say they will have a good year next year, but I don't think they're going to challenge. and to be honest, that's not a bad thing. McLaren just need a good whole year, like one whole year of good. It's fair. Because they haven't had one of those

for such a long time. They've shown glimpses. You know, this year's been good. 2021 was a decent car. 2020 was even better. But never consistently up there. So they can have one completely good year of performance. And they're building to that in 2025.

Obviously, you know, aim for, aim for the stars and all that. Don't just settle for a good year. But I just think that's probably what they're going to have and what they should be pleased with having if it does happen next year. So I don't think they'll necessarily challenge. I think they'll be like they are now

and like Aston Martin, we're at the start of the year. I think there'll be a bit of a pain in the side of those at the front. And maybe they will nab a couple of wins or at least come close to some wins. But I don't necessarily think they're going to challenge Red Bull. outright for for 2024.

But as I say, I don't think that's any bad thing. So a complete year of goodness is what I'm predicting for McLaren next year. And they're going to be a pain in the side of the big dogs. Woof. Yeah, exactly.

Woof indeed. Sorry, I don't know where to go from Woof. Yeah, so I think overall, if you're looking at like the last five years or so, if you go back to 2018, McLaren have finished somewhere between third and sixth in the championship. You could argue that though, so this not even half a season, maybe third of a season might be the most encouraging time to be a McLaren fan since 2012. Like you might go back over a decade to the last time McLaren looked this good.

certainly if you look at, I agree with you, Harry, that it's unlikely that based on the amount, well, the lack of rules changing year to year, it is incredibly likely that Red Bull are going to maintain their dominance next year. To your point, Sam, they'd have been working on that a long time ago with Red Bull. So it is going to be difficult for anyone, including McLaren, to properly challenge them. But, you know, McLaren have got to be encouraged by what they've had over the last half of this season. It's actually got to a point now where, of course, the Austrian Grand Prix, if you remember,

that's where Lando Norris got his upgraded car for the first time. That actually quite neatly divides the season now because it was nine races up until Austria, and it's now been nine races since Austria. I know you kind of know it, but until you sort of read it or say it out loud, it seems crazy. The first nine races of the season, McLaren, had 17 points. the last nine races, they've had 202.

That's ridiculous. Isn't Norris like the second highest scoring driver apart from Vestappan for that from Austria onwards? They're also less than a hundred points behind Mercedes in the Constructed Championship. They're going to win. Well, if you look at the, if you look at the Constructors standing since Austria, McLaren are second. Like they are like I say, 202 points. And Red Bull are still, to be.

fair, Red Bull are still comfortably ahead of them at 336, but Ferrari 1-76, Mercedes-159, Aster Martin only 76 points since the Austrian Grand Prix. So McLaren are very far and a way ahead of Aston Martin and also clear of Ferrari and Mercedes too. If you just look at those nine races in isolation, to your point, Sam, it's all about whether they can carry it on and actually not start with a 17th and a retirement next year. But yeah, they've had, just look at the last three races. Out of a possible, I guess there are nine podium spots if you look at three races, right, but the maximum a team can have is six because you're not going to fill all three spots.

They've had five podiums in the last three races. They've had consecutive second and thirds. Obviously, they switch positions, Norris and Piastri for those two. And then also a second place at Singapore. So they've had five podiums in the last three races. Red Bull have had two, Ferrari have had one, Mercedes had the other one. That's not a bad stat.

You've had over half the podiums in the last three races. Not a bad stat, man. Good. Not a bad stat, if you're McLaren. I like that. Looks positive. Yes. Just don't muck it up on the day one.

Every time. That's what I mean, just a whole year of good. If you're Mercedes, you've got to be Devo right now. A little bit. How have you fallen this far, eight-time Constructions Championship in a row? Have you also seen there that James Allison is doing absolutely nothing,

nothing on this car? He's doing next year's car. He's bids it off? Well, you would, wouldn't you? Is it like when you get a really bad season of your favourite program and you see the old writers come back for next year? They've gone, just stick with us.

Next year it's going to be really good. Precisely. Can't wait for the comeback. Hamilton Russell won two in Bahrain. Nico Rosberg asking if he can come back. back. It's going to be great. And then they'll let an apology out again after the second race of finishing fifth and sixth. We're so sorry. We're so sorry. We're so rubbish. We haven't really factored in. We're going to have five more races that are worse than this this season, but we're sorry.

Oh, so privileged sure. Oh, dear. Anyway, let's take our first break on the other side. We're going to be discussing Christian Horner's comments. Let me know what you're putting your sandwiches, please, listeners. Okay, Christian Horner, after the Qatar Grand Prix, had some comments regarding Sergio Perez and his need to desperately improve his form, which caught the eye. He was specifically referencing his need to improve his form to finish second place in the driver's championship, which is a position that Perez currently has, but of course Hamilton and Alonzo,

not necessarily out of it at this point in the season. Horner indicated the Red Bull needs to sit down with Sergio Perez and go back to basics. Harry, what are your thoughts on these comments? I think for the most part this year, any comments have like this have generally come from Helmut Marco. But generally speaking, I think Christian Horner has remained fairly quiet on that front. Were you surprised that he was so public with what he's coming out with here? It's a wake-up call, isn't it, for Checo? I mean, he's had a few, few wake-up calls this year. Like,

set his alarm 12 times and set for each one of them. Yeah, he's missed the bus like 20 times. But I think this is the sign of, of, yeah, yeah,

the mad man, Helmut Marco can come out and say these things and be also racist about it. But when, when Horner comes out and says this, then I'd be getting a little bit worried. Now, now check her, mate.

It's, he, these are the sort of things. Honestly, it's like, the blueprint of Red Bull getting rid of drivers. They say, Helmut Marco spouts off whatever he wants to spout off, just ignore him from the equation.

But Christian Horner always says, he's very good, very well media trained. He always says in interviews, oh, no, no, no, we're keeping, we're very happy with our drivers, we're keeping our drivers, that's our focus. It'd be like things like, our focus is on our two drivers. Yep. And then if it keeps getting worse, then one of these comments comes in, like, oh, maybe each needs to start being a bit better. Sit down with them.

And then two weeks later, they're gone. Now, I'm not saying Chekker's gone in two weeks, but I think this is the point where Sergio needs to really wake up. I'm not saying he's asleep, but metaphorically wake up. Because the bad performances are getting noticed, and I know everyone's going to come after us again as a Sergio Pera's bashing podcast, but he's still not really picked up since it's been bad. since Miami

since I mean it's not it's not it's been a gradual decline from from Miami but the you know the last I don't know five races but you'd say have we seen a performance that is better than a performance before Miami since Miami is my point

no I'm not saying that every point is bloody awful but we've not seen him perform better than he did in the first six score in preo wherever it was I fully agree but I think at least then he was sort of still there thereabouts but since he's just lost pace and crashing into people. And then this weekend couldn't stay on the track for the entire race. So, yeah, this is, it's, as you say, Ben, it's not normally Christian horror that comes out with these things.

So that's why I think Perez needs to be a little bit worried. And, you know, these are how many races we've got left? US, Mexico, Brazil. Five. Five. I mean, they need to be some of the best five races of Perez's life. I'm not saying they're about to get rid of him, but if it carries on the same trajectory

that it's been on in the past five races, then they'll, it's Red Bull. They're not going to. And they know, like Christian Horner knows that these years like 2023, and I guess 2022 to extent, are not, you don't have them all the time. You know, even when they were winning back in the,

in the early teenies, they had years where they were domic, they were dominant, 2011, 2013, but in between that, they also had years where they're really tight fought battles

and they need Perez to be Mark Weber. And Mark Weber wasn't Mark Weber for a couple of years because he regularly wasn't the second in the championship. He never was. Yeah,

but they still won the constructors was my point. They need a driver that will support them at least to win a constructors. So, yeah, it's a worrying time for Sergio. To link back to the first topic on McLaren, I don't know whether it's a case of he, obviously Christian Horner has seen the last two podiums, Vastappen surrounded by two McLaren drivers.

As far as I'm aware, there have only been three instances all year of a team other than Red Bull having a double podium, which is Mercedes had a two, three at Spain a long time ago and the last two races where McLaren are finished second and third in consecutive back to back races. I don't know if this is a direct, I don't know if you agree, it might just be a direct response of seeing those two podiums are going, ah, hmm, don't know about that. Because as long as Vastappan's in the middle of those three,

you're doing okay, but he's outnumbered on the podium at the moment. Exactly. And you, you know, it was this battle that Vastappen happened in 2021. And, you know, Bottas,

we criticised Bottas in his Mercedes days, but he was there for, for Mercedes to win that championship and I think I'm sure that Christian Holden is acutely aware of that fact that these glory days dominant glory days aren't going to last forever so you're right

maybe that's what sparked at these past couple of races we've had what do you've thought some I actually think this is completely fair and warranted from Christian Horner and I think he has done what Christian Horner does very very well which Harry you alluded to which is he's so well media train that he is delivered

I think, a huge blow, a huge wake-up call to Sergei Perez, whilst simultaneously not actually being insulting to anyone involved. You know, he is said quite publicly, I'm sure they've had private conversations that clearly haven't worked. He's gone, Sergio, I'm having to use the next tactic now of letting everyone else know that you're not up to the standard we expect. And we've spoken about future seasons a few times on the show. If Reg Bull are being challenged next season or the season after,

car is not as dominant as it was, or something happens from Max Verstappen where maybe he gets injured or something like that. Are we seeing another bout of COVID or something like that, right? And Sergei Perez is suddenly left as the lead Red Bull driver or has to fend for himself where the cars are very close. Do Red Bull believe that he is actually the man that can carry home the points required to pick up the Constructors Championship? Well, evidence speaks for itself in 2021. No, they were beaten by Mercedes. In 2022, the Red Bull stretched its legs of Ferrari. Hanger Mayor, but he was still beating in the Drivers' Championship by Charles LeCler, who did not have his brightest season ever either in that Ferrari. And then in this current season, he is at major

risk of not only falling behind Lewis Hamilton, it would also be further behind Fernando Aloncso if that Aston Martin hadn't completely falling off a cliff. He's almost been saved a little bit by that front. Sergei Perez has had a very consistent, strong, good career. But I just don't think, I think Red Bull are waking up to this fact that he's, is not the man that in a tricky circumstance will bring home the bacon at the last minute when it matters. You know, I saw this on Twitter from someone and I've forgotten who it was, so apologies if you listen, but you probably don't.

If Max Verstapp, they worked out if Max Verstappen was in, wasn't there this year and all the other positions like got bumped up, Alonzo would still be winning. There you go. He'd still be beating Perez. My point, the evidence. As it's not still, he would be beating Perez. Well, the results, exactly. The results almost speak for themselves then, don't they?

they allude to the fact that, you know, surgery press has not been in Q3 for 50% of all sessions. No, sorry. What? I got that wrong. What? Anyway, might be of Red Bull one there, but carry on. He's not being in Q3 for 50% of the sessions. He regularly again was not in the most recent race in Q3 again,

and he struggled also in the sprint shootout. He then could barely get himself back into the points when the cast clearly had great speed and great advantage. And he regularly ran off the track. And we saw quite a damning comment coming from the round. racing engineer that says, Sergio, you doing this is now actively hurting us.

It's almost like they lost their fuse with him a little bit. And when, I'm just going to tell him, what you're doing is a good enough. And it's genuinely... The engineer was done. Yeah, I'm like,

it's course... It was a straight comment. It was. You're costing us now. By you not being able to follow the rules of the sport that Max Verstappling is able to do in first place faster than you,

every single lap, you are costing us. And I think it... You know, like when your teacher tells you off at school, but then you get home and your mum and dad tell you off at school. That's the difference

between Helmut Mark and Marco and Christian Horner. Teachers go, can you stop talking in class, please? And then you get home, that's how Marko, and mum and dad go, we've had a call from the school,

you need to behave. It doesn't button you, yeah. And you go, oh, that hits a lot harder because mum and dad have said it. I think that's what's happened. Heaven help us all

if Helper's all if Helmut is involved in the education system, good Lord. I wonder if Christian Horner will smack Sergio Perez's bottom as he walks up the stairs. He won't be able to,

because we're walking sideways. Walking out the wall. That's still has a message me. Third mention in a row of that. I think we should keep doing it until he texts you. Text me, Dad. I love you.

Please. genuinely. It's like therapy. I have a very good relationship where father. It's fine. For me, probably the most concerning thing about this season so far is that if you take Red Bull

away from it, Fernando Alonso would be beating Sergio Perez, which is incredibly worrying. No, look, it's got to a point where I don't know if Christian Horner, and you can call me cynical on this one, I don't think that Christian Horner is actually referring to this season when he's talking about how he desperately needs Perez to perform. I don't think he's talking about 2024, despite the fact that he is.

You know, Red Bull don't desperately need Perez to finish second this year. There's nothing on the line. It does not matter. There's no financial incentive. There's no reward. a one three in the championship with both titles sewn up is as good as a one-two. I'm sure he would love to be able to claim for marketing purposes that they finish one-two this year, but they don't desperately need it.

What I think Christian Horner is actually saying here is that they desperately need it for next year and the year after that, despite the fact that he has referred to 2023. Red Bull have never had a one-two in the championship-winning year, ever? They have never, ever done that. What a stat. That's a good stat, man. Stadman. He puts an echo on that, Kirstie.

Yeah, I want full-blown. 28 minutes in. Echo. Still going out. She's not taking the left of. Sorry, Ben, carry on. No, that's all right. My next point was that Red Bull

have never actually finished one-two in the championship before. Oh, I actually got interrupted. I know. No, it's a valid point, obviously, because I wrote it down. It must be a valid point. True.

Yeah, so I think what Christian Horner's saying here is fair. And the thing that works for Sergio Perez and what's in his favour is that where Red Bull drivers have been under pressure before, it's always been a question of we don't know what they're capable of.

So if you take, say, Alex Albon, and you take Pierre Gasley, who we know have been under pressure at Red Bull before, and they've obviously been fired from the senior team, we never knew like, okay, what can they do? They were fired for not showing anything above a certain level. With Sergio Perez, it's different.

With Perez, it's, we've seen it from you, the first five races of this year. We just need you to return to it. So I think that is probably working in Perez's favour. You know, that would be absolutely fine. What he produced in the first five races is not only enough. It's more than enough. That he had, as far as I'm aware, four podiums in the first five races, had a couple of wins, obviously, had two wins in that stretch as well.

if he can just replicate 80% of that for an entire season, that'll do Red Bull. They don't need more than that. But yeah, the last few races have been really tricky. I mean, if you just look at the last three races, he's had five points. And that's included in a spring race as well. Criky.

Alpha Mayo have that many points. Well, exactly. That's one more point than Bottas has. That's the same number of points that Alpha Romeo have. that's fewer points than what each Alpina scored. Still better than you. Oh, good. They hate each other, aren't they?

Oh, Conn Perez. Oh, yeah, true. Not fans of each other. Oh, God doesn't seem to get on with anyone. No, there is a runging theme, now. He is the theme. We've reached a point where Max Verstappen is worth 66% of all of the points that Red Bull have gained this season,

which exceeds Ferrari. McLaren and Mercedes in terms of the lead driver and the percentage of points they've got for their team. So if you look at, obviously, Red Bull is 66% to Max Verstappen. Ferrari is literally just Carlos signs at 51%. Lando Norris, 62% at McLaren and Lewis Hamilton, 59% at Mercedes.

So for interest, just out of interest, folks, 79% of Aston's points are belonging to Fernando Alonzo. I missed. He's good. show. It's been good. That's got a great selection of stats. Percentage corner. It's a stat heavy show. God, I'm drowning in them. Honestly. Like, Ockon and his helmet. Yeah. It's full of stats. I've got stats in my head. The percentage of my helmet filled with stats is breaching 100. Move on. It's too many. There's too many. There's too many. There's

too many. Doesn't make any sense. Overall, I don't really disagree with the points that you two made. I think it's fair, but, you know, Perez has shown that he can do it, just not over a long enough stretch at the moment. So he just needs to be able to, this season and last season, just the first five or six races, great. Carry that forward for 20 races. As soon as he gets into the summer stretch and then onwards, for whatever reason, it's just not there.

Rungs out of street circuits. In conclusion, get good scrub. Oh, there you go. That's a classic Harry. line that is. QQ. What's the QQ? Quick question.

Yeah, we're on the lingo. What would you do with him for 2024? What I'd do with him? Keep him replacing who with? I think I'd keep him for 2024 because as Ben says, he's shown he can do it. He just needs to, I feel like, yes, obviously he needs to buck his ideas up this year, but he needs to go away over the winter. Have a good, wrong hard.

look at himself. And I'd come back fighting next year. But I'd say next year, if he has another 2023 next year, then Buf, he's gone. Buf. I'd keep him for sure. Because I just think all the other options are too risky.

We already know what you want to do. What do I want to do? You want to put down here, Ricardo? Yours is the fun answer. I want to put Lando Norris in the car. The other day you wanted Ricardo in. There's about five drivers. I choose.

Okay, five. But in a realistic terms of, of what actually happens. It's either got to be someone from the Alphateri family. Would you actually, if the, but Norris isn't an actual option.

Well, I think it could be. I think he could be brought out that contract. But that's my point is, I would do it on the slide. And if you said, no.

And that's where McLaren win the championship. Yes. I would say that would be really funny if, like, he's, Lando Norris has stood by McLaren through so much rubbish

that he leaves them the second they get good. And Fernando Alonzo, Strat. Backing. Imagine, Perez went to going to swap and then won the title. You struggle not to laugh.

Anyway, it's hypothetical. It's interesting. It's a hypothetical episode, folks. We're going to take our next break. On the other side, we'll be discussing Olly Behrman, competing in F1 later this year. The Bear. Moving on, Ferrari Driver Academy member, Oliver Bearman,

who's currently competing in Formula 2, will get his first experience in F1 later this season. actually as we say this, he's been driving the Ferrari today, not in an official capacity, but he'll be racing for Hasse later on in the season. He'll be doing free practice sessions at Mexico and Abu Dhabi. Sam, do you think that this is the right time to get him introduced to Formula One? Could you see him at Hasse being something that will happen in the future?

We know next year is not an option, obviously, but could it be something that happens in years to come? I think the Formula One seems, especially in the Ferrari family. And when I say family, I mean, you know, those who are powered by Ferrari. Family. Thank you, Dominic Torretto. Family. I think they see something in him.

I think he is the next big thing for the Ferrari family. And I think this is what they're, I think they're prepping him. I think they're, you know, they're grooming him for a Formula One drive. Now, I don't think he is on the immediate level of Norris, Russell, the Clare, Piastri, but that does not mean that he is only a couple of percent behind what their ability is. You've got to remember that the likes of Russell, what, 1 F3, then 1 F2, then got into F1, and Piastri did the same thing. And, you know, those guys shot for the stars, whereas Berman is, correct me, Ben, in the top three or four positions in F2 at the moment?

He's in sixth, although I think fourth through to six is separated by a couple of points. So it's all pretty close. And his junior record before that is well is very impressive, it's very strong. I do think that Ferrari are looking at him going in maybe four or five years time when Lecler or Sinks, they are either not performing or step away

or potentially move away to another team. I think Behrman is the guy that they are looking to fill the seat as the second driver potentially. Essentially following LeCler's steps of what he did when he came into Formula One, drove for what was Salber at the the time, Alfa Romeo, and then moved into Ferrari. I think they're going to skick him either in

the hearse if they're still powered by Ferrari at the time, get a couple of years under his belt, and then I think they will put him in the Ferrari. But he is exhibiting some really, really great characteristics. I think he is going to jump the likes of Taylor Porche, who are currently in front of him in the title, but I think he's got better longevity. I think it's got more raw talent, more raw speed. And I think this is, this is, we're seeing the early steps being made for a youngster to have a long-term career in F-1. Do you want to feel really old? How old?

It's what, 18? Olly Beerman was not alive for any of Michael Schumacher's championship winning seasons. I'm done. Why are you getting angry? You're even the oldest year! Oh, you're ancient, mate. There's literally a year between us. What, see, Olly Beerman.

O'5? O'Iroman was, yeah, 05. Oli Beerman was five years old when Vettel won his first title. He's just turned 18? Disgusting. Hey, you don't only just got to ask I got the club. Yeah. On that basis, he's not allowed.

Whatever my answer is he's not, you know, we need to get to grips to that we are going to be young. Oh, that's gross. Should we do a live show for my 30th, by the way? That's a thing and other year. I've got 18 months for that. Should we get over the first one first? What, my first 30th?

We can't time travel back 20 years, mate. Oh, it's good banter today. Yeah, we'll do it. 60th. That's what I call my 30. Times two. Pring it in small brick. Squared.

Speaking of much younger people, Olly Beerman, what do you think, Gary? Do you think this is the right time for him? Get in the bin, mate, I don't care. He's not allowed. No.

No. I think, Bingman. Olly binman. Yeah, look, I think this is fairly sensible from the FDA Ferrari Driver Academy

to get him some time in the car. but yeah, Haas are kind of their, not really they're beating now, but what they, they have a bit of sway over who gets that seat, although not as much as they used to. Well, because I think they tried, did they try and keep Schumacher in that?

I can't remember. But that's probably their best option to try and get a driver in. So this makes sense, get him a bit of time. As he said, he's been testing today in an older Ferrari at Fiorano. And like you say,

some, he's shown some good qualities. He's not leading. is he at the moment, F2. Just had this conversation. Oh. We just said he's sick. I can confirm he's still in sick. Brapham?

Do you listen to anything back in my phone? It's a good question. Right, so he's not leading. Good. Good. I hate this. Freaking podcast. But I think he's had a positive, positive year so far.

So yeah, it's a sense portion. I don't know. I, they, obviously, I'm thinking like Mick Schumacher, he didn't, he didn't, he know, he had a fairly average first year and then was, he obviously won the second year of F2. He did. And then he got an F1 drive. So maybe this isn't an immediate, but it's sensible to get him up, not up to speed, but to get a feel for Formula One a bit now, in case, you know, the performances continue to be good and, and improve. And then he's in a position to take a, take a Hasse seat. Having said that, it's Hasse, so.

I'm going to skip my neck on the line. he's much better than mixed him. It's actually a step back. Much better than Mixed Jamaica. Yeah, there's a big age difference. You know, I really do think I mean, he could well be right,

but if he doesn't, you know, be better than 6th next year. Oh yeah, that's a fair point. We might see a regression. We might see the point that he is as good as it gets, but I think he's got a way him to win F2 next season. Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, win, yes, but at least be in that mix, like... Yeah, if you come second by five points, fine, whatever. Yeah, although I guess tell that to Calamon. my lot and be fuming.

But, um, so yeah, I, I, I, sorry, Ben. I was going to say second's the better position because at that point you can still race in F2 and you don't have to go to house. It is a step back on F2, you're right. They do go quicker than the house guys, actually. Have you heard that? Yeah. Where's you get that one from?

Ben. Where does you get out of from? You? Correct. The worst triangle of all time. The birthplace of bad jokes. Um, um, So yeah, this is sensible.

Hasse have obviously got to use their young driver time at some point this year. And that's that, you know, sensible person to put in the car. He's clearing on. Poor boy. Anytime one of those two drivers can't do it. Fittipaldi's there. Let him go. Be free for Tepaldi.

Let him go and do something else. Because he's never getting in the car. Fly away. Oh, Discord. So yeah, overall, good choice. Every episode. I don't know. Good.

Who, Kirsty What are laughing? Was it you? What are laughing for? Okay. You don't need to look. Yeah. So I think this works out well for Olly Berman.

It's good timing because I don't think he'll be ready next year, but certainly the year after. You know, that might be the time where it makes sense for Hasse to take him on. He's having a good season this year. He's actually sixth in the championship this year. So he's doing all right. No, no. He's actually sixth in the championship. Where is he?

I thought he's leading. What, in the championship? Yeah. But yeah, but where is it? So you take first place, you go about five. That's where he is. He's six. That makes sense.

Do you know it says resign instead of resign? I also did well in F3 last year. To your point, Sam, he's had a good career up until this point. He was third in F3 last year, three positions ahead of his current sixth place in F2. So he did all right there as well. He's had, I think,

four wins and three of them have come in feature races. This isn't even a short sprint races, but generally speaking, I like to pay more attention to feature races in F2 and F3 because they are more reflective of what you'll get when you get to F1. Despite the fact that we do now have sprint races in Formula 1, they don't follow the same pattern that Formula 2 do it. So being able to claim those feature race wins and claiming pole positions,

that's generally what you're looking out for. and he's done a very good job of that this year. He's 18 years old, and as already referenced, it's making us feel very, very old. But if you look at all of the five drivers ahead of him, because he is currently sixth, they're all between 20 and 22 years old. So he's got at least,

is at least two years younger than everyone ahead of him at this point, which is encouraging. He's still got room to grow, and he will get better. So, yep, get him in the car this year. from Ferrari's perspective, as you mentioned, I think it makes sense. Because Ferrari, Ferrari kind of have two different ways of getting drivers into their team. It's either the Charles Lecler route of get them through Salber or another team, which could work with Berman or the other route like Carlos Sines, which is, hey, we're Ferrari.

Do you want to drive for us? And it's like all the nostalgia kicks in. So, yeah, I think it makes sense. It worked very well with Lecler. So I think it could work with Bairman as well. It's early days, but yeah, he's showing good promise. By 2028, I think he'll be in the Ferrari scene. Right. Write that down.

Someone will remember that. 45 minutes into episode 3.3-1, Sam said. Someone will bring this up in five years time. I can't personally. This is interesting. I can't. We'll hate each other. More than we already do.

We do already. Yeah. We'll have murdered each other. Well, curse could have knowing us all. No, that's probably more likely. Yes. She looks very disappointed. What order do you think

Kirsty's going to murder us in? I'm so gone. I'm so gone. We'll help me. I would estimate one week's time. Yeah. Oh yeah. It'll be around the, you know, 20 minutes after your flight lands in Austin.

She's lucky she's got something next to me. Yeah, still. That's how bad it is. Someone else is. Yeah. Unlike you bent. I've trapped me in the aisle. I've trapped him in the aisle. You've trapped him in the aisle. Like, is he the proper bit, I'm on the end.

Oh, is he, wait, hang on. This is obviously necessary to know. He's in the middle, or the three? There's a four. Four? Yeah. When you're on the outside, not window seat. They're all booked up.

You're on aisle side. Ah, so Ben, mate, every time you need to go for a wee. Yeah. I'm not letting him. Wet yourself. Go the other way past two other people. Good. I was going to be proper rude with that comment, but I'm not going to.

We stop recording it. You can. Good. Good. Right. Let's move on to Andretti. Obviously, we've already covered the news that the FIA has approved Andretti. And now it's a question of whether Formula One management does the same thing. Naturally, it was the talk of the town for the Qatar Grand Prix. Plenty of comments from current drivers, X drivers, team bosses. I mean, just to pick out a few. James Vowles of Williams, of course, said that it's an unacceptable financial risk from William's side, which is why they are against this happening. Fred Vassert also against this happening. Lawrence Stroll, I think we've already mentioned on the podcast before, said that if it isn't broke, you don't need to fix it. So you can guess where he's at in terms of this whole debate.

Some of the drivers weighed in as well. So Max Verstappen said that he'd like to see the competition, but did stress that he's not a team owner, so he doesn't know the ins and outs. Hamilton was an interesting one. I think at first he said, this is great, and then somewhat walked back his comments and wanted this to be an excuse,

not an excuse, the wrong word, an opportunity for increased diversity in Formula One. George Russell said that he's not for or against it, but he wants quality of the quantity. Good man. And lastly, classic tow the company line,

Fernando Alonzo, said that he'll just, take whatever position Aston Martin. I respect the Augustus. That's vintage Fernando. I respect the honesty. Doesn't ever speak his mind. Whatever my employer says,

I agree with you. That's pretty much what he said. I'll have another zero, please, Lawrence. Thank you. Oh dear. Sam, there's obviously been plenty of comments. Are there any in particular

that you would pick out and agree with or disagree with it? And what's your overall thoughts on how this has gone down? I'll tell you what I think that all of their comments are literally irrelevant. Does it matter?

Nope. I don't care. Literally, if they came and told me about this, it would be like speaking to a brick wall. You're never getting an answer. You're never getting entertained. And the brick wall ain't changing. You're the brick wall?

I'm a brick wall. A brick wall? Yes, I'm a brick wall. Do you know that? It would be, you know, in the Simpsons when Marge, maybe it's a Simpsons movie, Marge is talking to Homer and she's talking about,

he's trying to concentrate, but it just zooms in on his head and inside his head. It's like a monkey clapping the symbol. That is the movie, yes. And that will be me when they will come and speak. They will obviously come and talk to me about it. I don't care.

I don't give a rat's bottom about what the team's drivers or owners think about another team coming in. They do not get a say, in my opinion. I don't understand why they're so involved. And what's really funny is the huge amount of positive impact that this Andretti bid has already given to Formula One. It's raised share prices massively for them already, showing you just how popular in the movement would be.

It is already increasing interest in America massively. And a lot of teams have already gone, could GM just make a team on their own? What is it matter whether it's Andretti or GM independently? Like, it's another team. Your issue is with another team. What's wrong with Andretti? What are you so afraid of?

Just get on with it. Beat them. Shut up. Do you talking on the track? I think if F1 come out with a denial of this of their entry, I think they might actually get taken to court. I think it might be illegal because I don't know what basis they'd be making it on.

I think this is one of the biggest scandals in Formula One for a while of how farcical this is. Don't care about your opinions. Let them in. You're about as on the fence as George Russell is. Being George is very similar. Tall as well.

Yep. What are your thoughts, Harry? I think it's actually a conspiracy and the entire F1 paddock in terms of teams and drivers are just, they're just mad and Michael Andretti for not, you know, extracting the maximum from that MP4-8 in 1993.

Right. And they're holding it against him. I wonder where that was going. Do you know where I think? No, it all makes sense now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should have been on the podium more than whatever it was once. 40 years ago, they're that grumpy about it.

Yeah. 40? 83, wasn't it? 93. No, 30. Sorry. No, in all seriousness. I'm with Sam.

What does it matter? Delightful. What does it matter? Really appreciate you, right now. Like I get, I understand those that are saying no, and it's more from the teams. I think the drivers, to be honest, they're probably just trying to get through that question

because they don't care. Do they care? No. To me, as a driver, it allows for more driving opportunity. Why is this a bad thing? And I think a few drivers, Vastappans overall was something like that, which is, yeah, it would be cool to have some more competition,

but I don't know. If I was Jake, two other drivers I can dunk on. Yeah, right. If I was James Vowls, I would be leveraging this opportunity to go, look, because of the current Costco, we're missing X, Y, and Z.

They've got to build it outside the Costco regulation. I'll say yes, if you let me build these things. Well, and that was, I was going to it. Like they have, sorry, God. No, you please, Ben, it will be a better point. to say they have introduced that, haven't they? Where some teams are now, I think Al-Fatari turned it down, didn't they?

But a few other teams are taking the chance to, yeah, do that. For James Vowell's, I can understand why he's against it, especially for a team like Williams. And I know he sort of joked over the weekend, or maybe we could team up with General Motors. All right, then. Do it. Do it?

How much of a joke do you think that was? I don't know. I don't. He's a sensible man, is Mr. Val's. And why, if it's a, if it's a, you know, an actual valid opportunity, then I don't see why they wouldn't. But be interesting, especially if Andrews he don't get in, and then they team up with General Motors, but we'll see.

It's like me saying now, imagine if Mercedes were out late breaking, we were their official podcast. Ha ha ha ha. What a joke. Seriously, I am deadly serious. If you want to do that, I will do that. We'll sell.

Yeah, we will sell immediately. Mercedes breaking. And I think that's a lot. exactly what James House has done. If you're in Dreska, please call me. Are you talking about the eight-time world champion Lewis Hamilton? Yeah, obviously. Yeah, right.

Confirmed. Yeah, so I don't think the drivers particularly care. I understand why those positions of power in the teams are saying what they're saying, but it goes back to what we always keep saying. They shouldn't, their opinions, quite frankly, should matter at all. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way

towards any of the drivers or teams, but in this instance, I shouldn't even be taken into account. Yep, pretty much. There were a few comments that I took exception with, let's say.

Let's start with, should we start with Papa Stroll, Laurenstroll, because he was pretty much the first person who spoke out about this to say that he always subscribes to the philosophy of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. See what his lineups looking like next year. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If Lawrence Stroll is so subscribed to that as a mantra, could he please answer the question of whether Sergio Perez was broken at the end of 2020 or at least more broken than Landstrol? Because as far as I'm aware, at the end of 2020, Sergio Perez finished fourth in the driver's championship, helped the team to finish fourth in the constructors, had 125 points by himself in that season,

took the team's first win in 17 years going back to 2003, and apparently he must have been broken because otherwise, he swears by the mantra of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ben's got the quick pick out, single-handedly unsewing Lauren Stroh's argument. Also, just like to add, love you. love you, love you papistrol. He is taking, we'll also sell to you, he is taking to the corner.

If you, if you make up a net wealth of like nearly four billion dollars, you don't play by the, if it ain't broke, don't fix it rule. You go by the takeover the world at any cost rule. That's, and I don't blame him for it, but that's how he operates. It's not, he's talking rubbish with this. He's talking absolute rubbish. James Vowles saying, and I might be misunderstanding a few things here. So James Vowles is saying that it's too much of a financial risk. We don't know what that fund is going to be that Andretti's going to pay if it does indeed come to fruition. At the moment is $200 million as a base, but we think it's going to be more than that.

That is going to be at least two years, if not more, of like an offset, right? So it will pay for the amount of money they'll lose, providing Andretti doesn't add any value whatsoever to the overall prize pot. That will account for at least two or three years. So at least in the short term, it's going to be a financial benefit to these teams that Andretti's going to be there. Because what they get from that fund, even if it's only $200 million,

because it's probably going to be more, that's going to be more than they lose in terms of prize money. So I don't quite understand, unless he's thinking really, really long term, which, fair enough of he is, if he's thinking 10 years in the future and saying, 10 years in the future, we're going to get less prize money because there's 11 teams.

And, Andretti aren't actually going to add any value whatsoever. Okay. I don't think I agree, but fine. But yeah, I just, I don't really understand. Well, no, I do understand. The problem is I just don't agree with any of them. And what George Russell said about quality over quantity is fundamentally correct.

But can anyone actually point to something in Andretti's application that isn't quality? Like, they have racing pedigree in other championships. They have infrastructure that they are planning on building over the... They've already got good infrastructure, but they're planning on building even more over the next few years. They are bringing a massive name in General Motors with them and a massive brand in terms of Cadillac. Tick and tick. Like, what, okay, what's the hole in the... Like, where are we looking in terms of, oh, that's why it's going to fail?

They're American. The only way, oh, sorry, they're American, yes. The only way this is going to fail and I can't, no, I can wait for this to happen, but it's going to be true when it does. It's like, they're going to make it so difficult for Andretti to enter the sport. They're going to make it such, so expensive for them to the point where Andretti aren't going to be competitive. And because they're not competitive, they won't add any value.

And then the teams will turn around and say, yeah, see, we were right. they aren't adding any value. It's like, yeah, because you made it five times more expensive to enter the sport than you needed to. It's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I, yeah, shut up. I can't wait for them to roll the red carpet out for someone like Persia as well. Just like the next day, be like, oh, yeah, come on in. I told you, it's a conspiracy about the 1923 season.

83, apparently. Well, you're just old. What, just can't get it. hearing your memory's gone. It has. Yeah. One last final point before we move on in this, just to ask the question here.

Because Fred Vassar brought up the point of, well, actually, he didn't bring up the point. I think he was asked about HASS and what the difference was between the HASS application and this application. And Fred Vasser said that one of the reasons for letting Hasse him was that Renault were 50-50 on whether they were going to stick around in Formula One,

and there was a greater risk that they were going to lose a number of teams at that point, whereas now, I guess, his impression is that the 10 teams on the grid are staying around in the long term. Sam, is there any value, any, any, any, uh,

rhyme or reason in terms of what he said there? Oh, I didn't listen to what Ben said. He, right, should I answer it? Um, for a day, email. No, no, Fred. I like Freddie Vass, but, um,

that's rubbish. I don't, I don't, don't, don't buy that argument at all. And I Yes, we would have been down to We would have been down to nine teams If we hadn't accepted HASS Oh, thank God we did, obviously.

Yeah. But as a bullet dodge there. Escape me, it's going to go. Just a scratch. But that's just, we used to have so many teams. This whole like, we just want, quality, not quantity, all this, and that's just, I guess, the same argument that Freddie Vass is making here.

Like, oh, we only had to do it because we have to make up the 10. So that's almost like saying we let in the crap just to make up the 10. Yeah. That's not better. It might be paraphrasing. It might be reading between the lines, but yeah, pretty much. These rogue people in, I'm being rude to Hass here. There's obviously lots of great people who have asked, but, um,

people individually, they've not done, they've not done. done a lot is my point. That's not great. Do you know what, Fred, your argument sucks. And let's leave it on that point. We'll take our final break. We're going to be playing F1, overrated, underrated, right after this. Here we go. F1, overrated, underrated.

Overrated, underrated. What artists do we give? What way will they go? Overrated, underrated. What are weak shoes come to see the show? Overrated, underrated. Oh, I love that completely original song that I make up. Quality of that music is absolutely dive.

I love that it starts, basically half the word missing. Overrated. It's not going off me. It's overrated. It doesn't catch up until about six seconds in. Yeah, it's not good. It's great. Do you know what?

I should have them because I think, no, do you know what? That's an off-air conversation. It's better like this. Bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's better bad. What are the topics, Benjamin?

F1 overrated. Yeah, one of the more simpler games to describe, which is we'll just take three topics and say whether they're overrated or underrated or rated, which we can do, even if we are moaned up for doing so. It's our podcast. Let's go over it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fair point, fair point. Danny Kviyat, overrated or underrated, Sam. Bloody hell. Does anyone rate him? Oh, come on. Savage. I mean...

I beat Daniel Ricardo over a full season. I think he's underrated. I think he gets a very, very bad rap because of being the torpedo. Yeah. And I think actually he's a very standard. That's so cruel that that stuck.

I know. It was once. There was one incident. It was one time. I think he gets a bad rap for it. I don't think he's good enough to be Formula One, but I think

he's a very solid racing driver that will go on to do many good bits of racing across, you know, and developmental stuff. I just think that people like to dunk on him because he'd a couple of bad moments. Yeah, I think he's a bit underrated as well. Bear in mind, he came up with, he essentially mirrored the junior career of Carlos Sines and they were pretty much exactly the same going up through the ranks. And then he got to Formula One, beat Daniel Ricardo over a full season. That was all right, given he'd just beaten Vettel, over a full season, the year before that. Kind of went a bit downhill from there,

but overall, yeah, guy can race. He's the original gasoline album, basically, isn't he? Yeah, he did it first. He's the one that people forget about, but he is, like, the first of the trio. I will go for underrated as well. Honestly, if Max Vastappen wasn't a person, he...

If Max Wistappen wasn't a person... The whole F-1 grid right now. Oh, yeah, I guess we're all wishing that, but Kofiat would have seen out that year at Red Bull and I reckon would have gone into 2017 potentially in that Red Bull will be seen. He didn't help himself by

well, to be fair, China that year got a podium. Yep. It started off all right. Obviously then Russia was like straight after that and he took out Vettel twice in like two corners. That went down badly. But, you know, he was, he's a quick, was a quick driver and I think he

ended up getting a bad rap, perhaps unfairly. Underrated. Next topic. The first sector at Cota, Sam. Underrated. It's got the best turn one, best turn one in Formula One for a start. Love the uphill

87. Don't you dare. Oh, God. Did Spain disappear from the calendar? Did you disappear from this podcast? Um, it's got a great turn one. I love all the different lines you can take, I love the way the pit lane also feeds into it.

I also think that the way it opens up, turns two and three really good. And then I think the S's are very similar to what we have in Suzuki, which are really great fun to drive through for the drivers. They're difficult, they're challenging. I would like it if they added more runoff that actually punished you if you got it wrong.

That's probably where I think it has a bit of a downfall in those sections. But generally, it's a very good sector one. And that turn one is banging. absolutely banging put a donk on it bang around Harry are you also putting a donk on it

that's a good expression for underrated put a don't go a banging don't quite I hate that song I'm gonna just don't care it's our podcast rated I think I'm with Sam I really like turn one at Kota

I like the whole first sector I like to be the best turn one of the whole calendar You two can fight each other on the plane about that. I am, but also, probably will. I will give it rated though, because I would say underrated, but the whole runoff thing's a bit of an issue for me. So, yeah, that's why, like, imagine the, the, the Maggis and Beckett section that they have there, but it's like Magos and Beckett's and there's, like, grass and runoff and stuff. So gravel. Gravel.

Ron Dennis's driveway. Real. I'll go for rated on this one. But I really like it. I think the circuit as a whole is probably underrated. Agreed. But yeah. Might be top six or seven over the whole Canada.

I don't think about that. Copy and paste Harry's answer for me. Rated for the same reason. Yeah. I just wish there was grass or gravel. And despite the fact that I don't think it is the greatest turn one in F1, I do think it is top five. I think it is a great turn one.

I'll take that. That's fine. That's a compromise. The last one, the last one's an interesting one. So we know that the schedule's been released for Las Vegas coming up later this year. And we know that before the race, even before any practice session, there's going to be an opening ceremony. And we don't really know the details of this yet. Sam, what's your thoughts on an opening ceremony for a Grand Prix weekend? Oh, um, I bloody love him.

Oh no. I love how cringed they are. I love how ridiculous they are. I love that they'd never work for the most part. This is the formula. This is the formula. Michael Buffet, I may as well call him, because he gets every driver's name wrong,

who did the bloody first one in Texas that we all those years ago. 2017, yeah. Yeah, that was grand. That was. They love it in America. Related point here. The National Anthem Singers this year. I feel like this has not come up at all.

Some unreal choices for national anthem singers this year. It's been ridiculous. We had like three that are almost like the same person, but from different countries. With the camp, the cape and the moustache and like the hair. I'm like, you could be brothers. We've had Damien Lewis do a national anthem. He's probably not in the top five of weirdest ones.

Sorry, Damien Lewis. It was bad. It was out of all your performances. God's say you are great. What's the accent? for. You're English. We're going off topic here. But opening ceremonies, I actually think

I get really bored of like the ones that we get that are standing. I think embrace your culture, embrace where you are in the world, really go for it. Like in England, I want to see really old cars. I want, you know, UK, so tartan, I want bagpipes playing. I want to see like the

guard with the big hats that they have outside Buckingham Palace on their grid. Make it silly. Make it so ridiculously British. And then do that everywhere. do it everywhere. So in Japan, make everything a giant sushi roll because it could be fun. Oh my God.

And America, you little silly sausages, you do it well. You just go over the top. There's a bit of me that has got a soft spot for it, so it's underrated. Can't wait for Vegas. Opening ceremonies are utterly, utterly horrible. And I love it.

Yes. I don't know what. can I tell you why? No, they just are. There's something about them that is so bad that they become good. So I'm with Sam.

I reckon I could plan a opening ceremony for every single Grand Prix. I reckon that is actually my dream career now. You could. We would be cancelled, but you could.

And then Sam rolls out the National Adam Singer and a sushi roll in Japan. I don't get a respect. Hey, He is ridiculous for everywhere, you know. Like Mexico and have a burrito. We are going to say,

underage it as well, for the same reasons. They're awful and I hate them, but also I love them. For the love of God, please have the podcast. Oh, God. And I've been Damien Lewis

in a sausage roll costume. There's so many, I don't know which one to go for. You can't, yeah, have a thing. You've got a work cat out on this one. Folks, thank you so much for listening. Again, it's been a bit of a bizarre one. Remember that in the coming week, most of the episodes will be later than normal.

We're in our live show. We're in Coater. We're going to be the Williams Fan Zone. I don't know the address. We did this last time. I know we did. The address is, folks, for those of you who are in Austin, 800 Congress Avenue. Such a long road.

Texas 8-8701 or whatever that means. Whatever that means, postcode, I think. Probably. Zip code. How many steps you need to take, yeah. To get down the road. Yeah. miles long.

Anyway, we're going to be there. If you are going to the Grand Prix, you haven't got tickets for the live show, but you'll come say hello. Come say hello. We're doing our Patreon episode, so you might even featuring it 10 at the wrong time.

10 a.m. until 2 p.m. 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. to 2m. If you're in Texas and you want to come to see us, don't then look at the UK 10 a.m. That will be bizarre if you did that anyway, yes, especially if you got from the UK. Just 10 till 2. We've got Discord, the links to the description.

Patreon is also in the description for extra content, beer we're breaking, which you're going to be doing in Texas as well. It might be doing something bizarre. We've got some silly ideas. I'm not going to break into them because we've not agreed on them,

but... I want to do a Shrek watch along. The words watch along and Shrek have been mentioned. So who knows? Yeah, we've got loads of stuff going on. Thank you for your love and support and we will see you at the live show.

Oh my God. Oh my God. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been... Bangarang. Sorry, I was going to go over. Keep basing now.

Back rush. Oh, bass. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.