The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Would a Red Bull move be a mistake for Piastri?

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

With reports swirling that Red Bull are targeting Oscar Piastri, Ben and Sam debate whether this dramatic move would be the right call for both parties. Plus: Zak Brown reignites the “A-B team” debate, a game of Formula Fortunes, and an interview with writer Matt Majendie, who was granted behind-the-scenes access to Red Bull amid their dramatic 2025 season… Inside Red Bull Racing: A season with F1's most thrilling team is available for pre-order now from book retailers. Find it on Amazon.  Get involved in F1 Fantasy this season! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the Late Braking league⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us... LEAGUE CODE: C6Y6R4ZUY02 Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get:Ad-free listeningFull-length bonus episodesPower Rankings after every raceHistorical race reviews& more exclusive extras!Don't forget! You can also gift a Late Braking Patreon subscription—perfect for loved ones or your own wish list. Choose anything from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking:You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats!Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and see if you can beat us!Get in touch any time at [e-mail]  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking, on this midweek Wednesday episode. Unfortunately, no F1 this weekend. But Sam, we've decided today we'll go in the same clothes as we did on Sunday because we are dirty little buggers. We are messy boys. Yes, it's just...

Channeling my inner Kim Woodburn there. You dirty little bugger. Yes, that's how we roll. We've got nothing else to live for at the moment. So it's just getting through every day until Formula One's back. These were the dark times. Well, we had a month for dark times.

No more dark times, please, Ben. Okay, no problem. Well, good news for you, Sam, is that we're playing Formula Fortunes later on. So this is bound to be a good episode because of that alone. But on top of that, we've also got an interview with the one and only Matt Maggiadie coming up later on in the show too. I spoke to him last year, had an opportunity to speak to him earlier in the week.

So you'll hear that interview shortly. But let's start with Oscar Piastri and Red Bull. Hmm. Because according to Autosport, Oscar Piatry has been identified by Red Bull as its leading candidates who replaced Max Verstappen, if the four-time Formula One world champion were to leave the sport. sources cited by Otisport in the Miami Paddock say this view is shared internally even though Vastappen remains under contract for next season

and the team continues to publicly maintain that he is staying. The report adds that team principal, Lauren Meckes and Oliver Mintslaff, are prepared to activate a contingency plan centered on Piastri in the unlikely but possible event Vestappen departs for a rival team takes a break from Formula One or exits the sport entirely.

It should also say on this, whilst it's a report by Autosports, Sky Sports have readily reposted this. It's on their website. So it's not to say that Sky Sports are confirming this is true, but equally, that kind of implies they're confident enough to share it on their own platform. So maybe there's not nothing in this. No, this isn't some kind of dumbfounded news story that's come out because we want a bit of a click-through rate or to get people on due website.

This has got some subsinks behind it. Now, what that substance is, is always tricky to say when it comes to having F1 inside the point of view. So go if it's genuinely substantial, if maybe Mark Weber has had a conversation, of course, Mark Weber being Piastri's agent, has had a conversation with Red Bull. We know there's ties there between Weber and Red Bull as well.

And you would argue that Oscar Piazcribes very much fits the mold of a Red Bull driver in his attitude, the way he goes about his racing. That clinical, no fuss, gets on with the job, delivers. You know, you look at Vettel, you look at Bastapen, you look at Piaastri now. They kind of fit a very similar wavelength in terms of the way they act. they speak, they interview, they drive. Daniel Ricardo, arguably, is probably the outsider of those kind of key drivers that

they've had at their team. So I'm not shocked that this is actually a story that we're seeing, and it makes total sense that Red Bull with the potential imminent threat that Max Verstappen could be very much stronger on these merry little way out of the sport, that it makes sense that they need a contingency plan, they need a backup. And as we discussed a few episodes ago, Norse and Lindeblah probably not ready, realistically, to step up and be a league Formula One driver. Red Bull. Yeah, and I think there's a difference between promoting those drivers and promoting

them to a team that has another relatively inexperienced driver alongside. This is a team that has had a lot of success in the past and going with such an inexperienced lineup likely isn't what they want to do. Now, appreciating that Piastri, despite his rather calm demeanor, makes you feel like he's been an F1 for a decade. He himself is not that experienced, but he has had the experience being in a championship fight, of winning races, of being in those sorts of situations that could help a team like Red Bull out if and when he was needed. You can't replace Max Verstappen in that he is such a difference maker for the team that you are aiming to replace 80% of him, which would be honestly a good result for Red Bull if he did decide to move away either

from the team or from the sport entirely. Piaastri has proven over. Piazzi has proven over over the last, I want to say, two years or so, 24 months, he has, he is one of the best in the sport. I think I would have him in a top five best drivers in the sport. I don't know if you agree or disagree with that. I don't think, I don't think you're crazy for saying it. I think he's in the mix for top five in the sport. And he might not be done there. Again, like he's, whilst he appears very experienced, this is only his, what is fourth year in the sport, he might still improve from where he is right now. You look at some of those other grades, I mean, Vestappen's a very good example of that. But even if you look at, say, Lewis Hamilton,

both of those drivers were getting better, even four years into their career. So what we've seen from Piastri so far might not be the end product. So I think it's a pretty sensible target for them. I think it is as well. And when it comes to opposition of who they might want to look at hiring Seda Piastri, he stands out in the time. that he's been here as well. You know, Piastri has picked up more wings than Russell. He's picked up more wings than the Clare, which is sad to say those things.

But those are probably the other two drivers that you would look at as leading contenders from rival teams that you might want to go after. For context to that, Piastri has had 72 Grand Prix, and he's picked up nine wings. That's a 12% conversion rate. Charlotte Clare has been in 175 Grand Prix,

but he's only picked up eight wings. It's a 4% conversion rate. And George Russell has been involved in 156 Grand Prix, or starting picking up six wings as a 3% conversion rate. So whilst there is time on the Cygopiastri to obviously build up his Grand Prix experience, he has managed to convert far more of those Grand Prix wins. Now again, there's mitigating circumstances. McClara had a great couple of years while he was on the rise.

But it shows you that when given the car, given the opportunity, he is genuinely able to convert those opportunities into race wings and valuable points. It makes sense. He's got a lot of time left in his career. Lecler is locked into Ferrari for eternity. George Russell. we might just see him get beaten by a teenager. Who knows, that might happen this year.

That will damage his stocks significantly. Piastri is definitely still on the rise. It came so close to a championship against a more experienced teammate and Max Verstappen. He put up a really quality fight and one race goes differently. He wings that title. And it is not just his speed. His speed obviously factors into this a great deal. But I think Red Bull would be really happy to pick up with someone that has the demeanor of Oscar Piastrian.

I know we've only seen him. against the teammate, we've only seen him compared to Lando Norris. He hasn't had a second teammate in F1 yet. But I, even without seeing that, I'm very confident that Piastri is the type of driver, the type of individual, who will just work with anyone. Like, bear in mind, like with the McLaren fight for the championship last year, there were so many reasons why that could have blown up. Like, we had Norris crashing into Piastri at Canada. They were close all year long. And I know we had all the nonsense around papaya rules and the like, but it was mainly team driven. In terms of the relationship between Piastri and Norris, that is pretty much as good

of a result as you can possibly get for two drivers fighting for their first world championship. And a lot of that, and it's not just Piastri, it's to do with Norris as well. But a lot of that is based on Piastri, and I think the way in which he operates. And that is an attractive element to signing him, no doubt about that. Yeah, just wants to get on with a job. Be the best he can be. And he's not going to slate someone else off in trying to gain attention. or two by playing mental games.

So we're kind of saying that for the most part, it would be a positive move if Red Bull could pull this off. But then there's the other side of the coin, which is, would this be a beneficial move for Piastri in his career? Could it be? It's risky, isn't it? Yes. It is risky.

Because McLaren have proven over the last three, four seasons, that they are genuinely capable of building and sustaining a championship fighting, if what championship winning car. You know, they have two constructors, one driver's title in the last three seasons, which is great for them. And they look to be already improving in the new regulations.

We saw just in Miami that they were the closest competitor to Mercedes by a long shot. And they already look like they're leapfrogging Ferrari in the process. Come on, Ferrari. But it does feel like if you were to take a step away from that team to anyone, other than realistically Mercedes, you are risking a career of always being second best. But equally, how many times have McLaren been second best to a team that is superseding in them? One of those teams being Red Bull most recently, of course, where they picked up four in a row with Max Verstappen.

And that could be his career. That could be his legacy. If Red Bull gets something right between the years 29, 2030, it might be a really big momentum shift for Red Bull. And they could crack the code. There's suddenly go on another run of three or four weeks, and Piastri is the guy that does that. And yet equally, he can have a car that sits in sixth place

in terms of every race performance and he can't get any further. and he watches Landon Norris go on to be a four, five-time world champion because McLaur get the package, right? It really is a game of someone that didn't this well was Lewis Hamilton. You know, he made that call to go to Mercedes at exactly the right time, had one year of development and then suddenly picked up six world titles, of course, out of eight giving opportunities. You get it right, you make your career groundbreaking and legendary.

You get it wrong, you just become another driver that's got a few race wings on that belt. Yeah, it's, it can go the way of Hamilton. It can go the way of Daniel Ricardo leaving for Reno. Like, it can go both ways. And I know it's maybe not a fair comparison in that Renno had very little success at the point Ricardo made that move, whereas Red Bull have. But it is, these career crossroads can be very interesting. I feel like with Piastri in this move, if you take the McLaren side of it, you can be relatively confident, high confidence value that it's going to be good if he stays at McLaren. Whether it will be great or not, not sure.

Whether it will be bad, feels unlikely, but it will be good, you think. Red Bull, it's like, it could be amazing, and it could also massively backfire. And you might have something in between as well, but I just feel like the confidence level is much lower with Red Bull. Because if you look at, let's just say this century,

how many dominant periods have we had from a team? We've had Ferrari from 2000 to 2004, we've had Red Bull from 2010 to 2013, Mercedes from 2014 to say 2020, and then you've had Red Bull 2022 to 2024, I would say. Two of those four dominant spells in the last century have been by Red Bull. They have proven, maybe not without Adrian Newey, but they have proven that they can have these extended spells of success.

And whilst McLaren have won titles in that range, in that range. They've had Lewis Hamilton, obviously, win the title in 07. They had Norris win the title last year. They've been competitive, but they haven't yet proven that they can go on that similar run that Red Bull have been able to. And I wonder if that would be a consideration for Piastri if he does want to make this move. There is also the team dynamic, right?

And you mention how well they seem to, well, as I said get along, I don't mean like their best mates and they're all chummy. But I'd mean like, you know, in terms of two drivers who are regularly in contention for race wings and therefore titles. They get along pretty well, considering. But is there a thought from Piastri where he goes, I came into this two second to Norris? I kind of grew up in Formula One,

Nexenoran, who was the more experienced driver. Norris, very fit, much like he's made with Claren, his home, much like the Claire has Ferrari. You know, Bostappan has Red Bull currently. It feels like he's not going anywhere. Is there a realistic chance that Oscar Piastri, still so early in his career, still so young, has got the ability to go, well, I'll go to Red Bull.

I've got 15 years left of my career. I could be the Red Bull Driver for the next decade and a half and build a team around. We're currently at McLaren. It's shared pretty fairly, pretty evenly, but it's shared. And it will always be shared because Norris was there before him. So unless Norris leaves, it's not going to ever be Pi Astrid's team. So it'd be interesting to go where he thinks. Yeah.

And you wonder whether has he got enough in the bank almost to make that career error and then go somewhere else if it doesn't work? I think he probably does. Yeah. But I think it's probably one chance, rather than more than one chance based on what we've seen from him so far. I think it'd be foolish not to consider it. Like the Piastri, the power unit is looking pretty good, right? He is a power unit. He is that good.

So the power unit's looking pretty good. The car has improved at the early points of this year, but still has a ways to go. I think, again, it doesn't matter whether he actually goes through with it, but I think he should at least consider it. Also, producer Kerski being the ultimate producer is just saying a really lovely photo of, what, 12-year-old, 30-year-old Oscar Piashtru here, stood very proudly outside of the Red Bull Racing headquarters, looking delighted with himself. Probably the only person to ever look that delighted with anything in Milton Kings, I imagine. Also, he doesn't look any different. Yeah.

Just look at his face. He looks no different. It's just Oscar Piaastri skill, is like it? Yeah. Anyway, so maybe that was an omen many years. ago. In terms of how realistic you think this is, Sam, like if you had to put maybe a percentage chance on it, is it going to happen? I'm at about 15 to 20%. If Vestappen announces a leave, that will jump to something like a 70% to 75%. This is hugely relying on Max Verstappen not

being a part. Because let's face it, he's not getting replaced. He chooses to leave or he stays. Vastappen has the power and it affects a lot more than just Red Bull as a team. There'll be a huge domino effect in Formula One to what goes on here. Yeah. I'm going to agree with you. I think that range is kind of right. It's more unlikely than likely, but equally, I'm not completely writing this off.

If it's not Oscar Piastri, you mentioned George Russell. We know we did our 2027 lineup predictions not that long ago, and the likes of Pierre Gasly and Carlos Signs were mentioned. So if it's not Piastri, who are we looking at instead?

Yeah, I think, I think Red Bull will want someone with longevity that they can really put their time and effort into and we've already mentioned their young drivers. It's no slight on the young drivers. It's just they're not Max Verstappen and I don't think they'll be able to turn up to Red Bull and go, I'm going to win on my first time on the Red Bull guys.

I know the Sears are out, but I'm going to win. It's unlikely to happen. They're unlikely to have the same impact. Generationally, that doesn't happen very often. So even if Limbaugh is the best version of Lemblog we could ever have, is it as good as Max Verstappen? That's a conversation. I think they'll want to go for someone with some actual experience.

So that four, that's got a word. So therefore, that's what I'm trying to say, you have to look outside of the team dynamics to try and understand where their direction might go. So if isn't pastry, I think Russell is a fair shout, especially if he is bestied by Antingelli and they fall out of love a little bit with Russell as the team. That was also part of the conversation of if Bostapel would go to Mercedes

as part of this conversation, of course. If Ferrari really fall off, I think the Clare is a genuine consideration. That he's not going. I'm trying to put realism into his mind. I think there's more chance that Red Bull jump Ferrari at some point in the next year. Then Ferrari jumping everyone else to be title contenders. All you need to do is tell Leclair, it's fine.

We'll be winning races in six months' time. And he goes, oh, yes, boss, okay, we will be winning. I stay red. Yes, great. It's just the most gullible Ferrari lover of all time, isn't it? We love, Michelle. You gullible look that. But next row show, we're getting a wing.

Oh, okay, I'm happy again. But yeah, I think then they might have to look at something below them. I think someone like Bortoletto could be a shout, you know. I generally think if you're going to go something a little bit different, he could be a fair shout. I would choose Gassie over science at this point. Science has now really been around the block, and I think they've probably moved on from that.

Gassely has kind of proven that he has had one step away from the Red Bull family, right? The last team he was at was Alfa Tauri. I still think that that's a fair move. And his arched chairman of Sir Maco isn't there anymore. True. I can't see it being someone like Bortoletto just based on Bortoletto Hagear lineup. I just don't think they'd go for two young drivers. It depends when it happens.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm talking like if it's next year. Sure, yeah. If it's December this year, it's announced, I agree. Yeah. I think Russell, I could see that happening. I could see that happening. In terms of signs and Gassley, it's really interesting.

one whether either would be suitable. With Gassley, the problem is that the same questions that you had after his 2019 stint are still there in that as soon as he went to a top team, and he didn't get a lot of time, it was only half a season. We have to remember that. He couldn't hack it in that half a season. And in all of the time that he's had an F1 since, he's been great in the midfield. And he hasn't yet had the opportunity to go back to a top team and show.

as soon as I have a race-winning car, I can prove that I'm a better driver than what I was back then. And I still think they may be in the back of their head still have that in consideration. With Carlos Seins, it's almost a bit safer in that he showed versus Charles LeClaire at Ferrari.

He's perfectly solid. But you're also, I think, then, you are giving up the fact that he could be great. Because that's maybe harsh, but, like, Signs wasn't on a close level. And Sykes never got the chance to drive a Red Bull? No, exactly. I think, you know, signs proved that Ferrari, like, he was very good there,

but he also proved that if Ferrari were capable of winning a world title, it was going to be LeClerre that did it, not him. So I think if Red Bull were to go back to signs, it would almost be an admission of, we're signing a 7 out of 10 driver. But then you're throwing the ultimate rookie that is Fernando Alonso. Yes, that's true. I just worry about his inexperience. It's true. He's not being around a long time, so he could let the team down. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what happens. Sam, you're going to go away for 20 minutes. Do you have any idea what you're going to do with those 20 minutes? I'm going to walk to Milton Keynes and I'm going to recreate the Oscapiastri photo that we just saw.

Oh, nice. I'll get the same t-shirt and everything. I have one request. Okay. Every roundabout that you see in Milton Keynes, can you pretend you're a car when you go around it and, like, indicate with your hands? I'm not sure that's different to what I do anyway. I can really picture that. That's terrifying. I hate that you can picture that.

Do you make a noise as well? Of course I do. It's on the car. And then I go, I know, I nailed that. I thought there was a car in the room with us. Oh, good stuff. Anyway, I'll see you at Milton Keyes. You have fun with our guest's guest.

Yes, I'm going to be chatting with Matt Maggiadie right after this. Welcome back, everyone. We are delighted to welcome back a guest to the show after spending a year behind the scenes with Red Bull Racing, author and journalist. Matt Magandie is here to talk. about what might have must have been a very frilling year at Red Bull and to preview his new book inside Red Bull Racing. Welcome back to the show, Matt. Yeah, thanks very much for having me back on.

Yeah, no problem at all. We were just saying it's, it's been a while. It was a summer break of last year, I think, wasn't it? Yes, I think we were both, I guess, probably desperately trying to find different ways to talk about the season when nothing's happening, which I guess has happened a little bit this season as well. But yeah, yeah, that was a good, a good fun crossover from memory. Yeah, I was thinking back to it, one of the things that stood out in my memory, and it will probably come up today, is that we were talking quite a lot about the driver's championship and which way it would go. I remember distinctly being wrong about saying it would be Piastri, but at that point,

it was very much a two-horse race. We were discussing, would it be Piastri, would it be Norris? And little did we know that there would be a third person involved? It is extraordinary, isn't it? You know, the plus 100 points behind Max Verstappen was, and I think people in the team haven't exactly given up and they would admit that but it didn't seem remotely possible and yet this sudden turnaround happened and it just got better and better and it was so dramatic how it happened with the you know the problems the DQ that McLaren had and then also the error they made with the

strategy call and suddenly you add it right back in and then the excitement of going all the way down to that very final race in some ways I don't know it sounds an odd thing to say in some ways it didn't matter you know following that that Max didn't win that fifth world championship, Max Verstappen, because it was just so incredible that they'd even managed to get to that point. He seemed the most sanguine of anyone about it. There was a few sort of dropped bowed heads within the team. And yet he was like, this is like a win, guys.

We were absolutely nowhere and we've ended the season with the quickest car. So I think it was after his Qatar win when he gave his post for his interview. And I think at that point, he looked so calm, but his expression was actually, I guess I could actually win this now. This actually feels plausible after the way in which that race could have gone. But yeah, you're right, over 100 points back from the middle of the year. It's not something that we were discussing in August of 2025. So I wanted to ask you about 2026, first and foremost, just outside of Red Bull.

How are you finding the season so far? I guess it's a bit of a disrupted year. A few weeks break, obviously, after Japan. but these new regulations seem to have got everyone talking. I've found it fascinating. You know, so much, so much to take in so many different regulations and trying to get your head around it and for fans to try and get the head around it. And I'm sure you guys have had, you know, countless conversations

trying to sort of explain everything to everyone. But I always like a regulation change. It breaks things up. We've had some quite bonkers racing and overtaking. And, you know, I love sort of seeing the Ferrari starting. Doesn't matter if they're kind of seventh on the grid, but you know they're going to get right up there in the mix. So yes, it's different.

Obviously, there's a lot of drivers less happy with it, but I've enjoyed the show. Have you been the same view or have you? Yeah, I'm mostly positive. I say mostly positive. It's a bit of both. I feel like there's three camps almost. You've got people who are very negative about what we've got going on now.

Those that are very positive. And then maybe me in the middle where it's not perfect yet, but I can see a way in which. and already with some of the tweaks that have been made but I can see over the next few years I'm not sure what else can be done in the 26th season in all honesty, but I can see this developing into something

I was just to say enjoyable, that implies that it's not enjoyable already, but even more enjoyable than what we've currently got. So yeah, somewhere sitting on the fence in the middle, I think. Well, then they'll get to that point and they'll change it again, weren't they? Wow. The nature of Formula One.

Always the way, isn't it? 20-21 season happens. one of the most exciting of all time. New regulations come in the next year. It seems well-timed each time. You must have had behind the scenes a good look at how Red Bull were preparing for this year. Was it something that was a bit of an undercurrent throughout the entire year? Was it something that seemed to pick up a lot towards the end of the season?

How did you find that? So it was there from the very outset. And principally, I guess it was the same for every team in that, you know, in the regard of the big regulation change. but why it was there so much for Red Bull is obviously building their, you know, power trains, their power unit in-house for the first time ever. And so that was such a big part of Christian Horner when he was in, you know, at the helm of the team, he was in charge of the regime.

That was a big thing that he'd push for. And then for Laura Mechiaz, it became a massive thing, obviously, when he took over. And it's just such an amazing project, you know, this, they like to say as a team, you know, they didn't just build the engine and they built the building for the engine that had just been a field. And that's astonishing to get to the. the point where they did, with actually, they've got an incredibly competitive engine

far more than I expected to, you know, far more power and reliability than perhaps you might have thought from a season one team. So that was always in the background. So we very much had the sort of story of what might happen in 2026 in the background.

And also I was always fascinated during the course of 2025 whether what they were doing in staying in that fight, how much that be to the detriment of this season. And I think Mechiaz had been honest enough to admit that it has had. an impact and inevitably it will because there's only so much attention you can give to

each season. So that was heavily married, 25 and 26 quite heavily married together, particularly for rep. Yeah, it's one of those weird situations where I think it was worth going for it last year because I'm kind of of the mindset. If you ever have a chance at a championship, you're doing yourself in the sport of disservice by not putting everything behind it. But equally, it's like if they didn't have Max Verstappen, they probably don't feel, they have the driver to win that fight. They therefore spend more time on this year and maybe give Max Verstappen a better car.

It's a weird mix. But I've been fascinated by how good that power unit is. I felt going into this year it would almost be the reverse situation where we were asking more questions about the power unit and maybe less questions about the chassis. Seems to be reverse at the moment. Yeah, I mean, that definitely took me by surprise. You know, when they came out and you're like,

this actually, this engine's looking pretty good. It's hard to know. entirely until you're there and you can compare and everything. But, you know, straight away, it looked good and reliable. It didn't seem to have, you know, major, major issues. Bearing mind, you know, you would have thought they'd be, I mean, I remember telling some of story. I think it was 2018 in testing where the car came out of the garage

and didn't make it out of the garage, it just broke down there. And, you know, that car ended up pretty good. So the RB18 rather than the 2018. And obviously, that was a very successful car. And so I expected more of that reliability issue to happen and us to be talking about the engine and then to be saying, well, you know, this is season one, give us a chance.

And lo and behold, it's been great and we've been questioning the chassis. But now what I love in the true Red Bull story is they've had a few weeks to work it out, you know, and suddenly out they came. I know things didn't go perfectly in the end of Miami, but wow, you know, to be contending for pole position, looking in a strong position.

You know, obviously Max had that spin. But you're like, wait a minute. They seem to turn things around. And that's one of the great things, whether it was the 2025 season, this season or seasons pass, their ability to develop in season, whether that's with the engine, whether that's with the chassis, is astonishing. And that's credit.

Mecca's likes to say and credit the 2000 people. But it really, you know, having been behind sort of closed doors there, it really is that collective effort, astonishing number of way brainyer people than me able to problem solve throughout the course of the season. It says a lot that with the greatest respect to Pierre Gazley and L.P. to go from battling those two just one race ago to getting a front row start in Miami to show the speed at which things these things could turn around when you have a team

as effective as Red Bull. I wanted to ask a bit more generally about the idea to spend a full year behind the scenes with Red Bull. How did it come about and what was it that interested you about the project? So back then, when I was a newspaper journalist with the Evening Standard, the London paper, and I did approach Red Bull about doing a feature inside the winning machine, because I wanted to get a sense of this, you know, you think of this team, it's an energy drinks company name, owned by Austrian, Thai billionaires, but it's a British success story.

You know, it's on British turf, Milton Keynes, largely British workforce, I know there's international field within there too, and to try and get a sense of this sort of British success story and how it works. So I did this feature inside the winner machine and talk to key players and got to be there for like a post-race debrief, Max Verstaffer. and coming on the screen, looking a little worse for wear. Be fair to say, he admitted he'd had a few gin and tonics to celebrate post race, but it was the day after that. It was just nice, and it was a really good feature.

But what I found by being given the access for this particular thing, there was so much more that could be told, not just, you know, we know by watching Drive to Survive or watching the race that weekend you know of the Christian Horn, there's a Laura Mechiaz, Yuki Sonoda, Max Verstappen, et cetera, all these big names. There were so many other stories to be told. And that's the bit I was most fascinating.

So I approached them about the idea of doing this podcast, which obviously we knew before, The Inside Track with BBC, and then it sort of took off from there, and they seemed to be invested in the idea of being able to tell their stories of these. I would be wrong to say they're lesser lights, because they're still integral figures, but maybe people are less well versed in. And I loved all that part.

And I still feel like even having spent some time there with the team, you only sort of chipped away at the surface. There's so many more different strands you could have gone. gone down and different people you could have invested time in speaking to. Did they remain quite, I don't know, open, approachable throughout the year? Were you impressed by how much they were letting you in almost? Yeah, I think they were very good at that. They understand, you know, that they need to open their doors.

I mean, I was incredibly privileged and lucky to get the access that I did. Obviously, there were moments when it undulated inevitably when there was some difficulties he's in the team and the change of hierarchy and stuff. And I was unsure how that would go down. And at certain points, it was harder to back to chat to people and others. But then when Laura Mechiaz came in, he seemed to appreciate this still being a good project to do. And so, yeah, I was very grateful carried on. And, you know, I guess it was such a great story to be able to tell such a positive story as well.

So shining light on these remarkable individuals and, you know, making it, you know, stressing the point that it wasn't just the superstars that we were actually. more interested in these other characters, fascinating characters to be able to hear from all of them. I have to congratulate you for getting this all into one book because looking at the highlights of last year, the championship push, the change in hierarchy, and I guess the first big thing was Lawson being replaced by Sonoda. So many notable moments for the team throughout the year, if we were to go back to the post at the beginning when there was that driver lineup change, how was that behind the scenes because I just remember pure shock when it happened. So, yeah, it was just, it was so unexpected.

I mean, I know there was pressure and stuff and people were saying things, but I really just didn't think that would happen. And it seemed incredibly brutal at the time. And credit to Lawson, to, you know, turn things around by moving teams and getting himself a gig for this season as well. That was hugely impressive. I think less mentally, you know, less mentally strong people would have, would have crumbled. And I think he looked like he struggled initially.

but that was so impressive. But yeah, I wasn't, so early into the project, I didn't have like full insight at that time. It was more being able to reflect with others on that moment with the speed with which it happened and suddenly, you know, total driver change. It was quite a seismic move, wasn't it? I mean, do you remember thinking shock at the time?

Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. Just two races is pretty hard, isn't it? Yeah, even based on some of the decisions made by Red Bull in the past, going to, yeah, to the extent of just two races for a driver before deciding they need to move on. Bear of mind as well. Like it was,

was it Australia where it was absolutely soaking wet in a first race in a car and then a Chinese weekend where you have one practice session because it was a sprint. It was not saying two race weekends would be normal anyway, but it was almost a condensed two races as well for Lawson. They seem to argue, didn't they, that what they'd seen, I think, in testing and around the factory,

that there were like worrying signs that he just seems, you know, rabbin headlights, I guess, almost would be a way of describing it. And this was going to get worse rather than better was in their mind. And they felt the best way to protect him was to do that. But yeah, a mad, a mad early start

to spending a season with the team for sure. Yeah. My instinct as well as if they had given Sonoda the nod, it probably would have ended in the opposite situation of loss and replacing him. I wouldn't have been surprised at all. early in the year outside of the obvious driver changes, I felt we had, even though Vastappan was winning a couple of races at that point, the surge of McLaren was very much confirmed early in the year,

felt like the biggest challenge that Red Bull would have to a driver's championship, at least for a number of years. Is that how it felt behind the scenes, a team that was very used to winning, suddenly it's looking a bit shakier? Yeah, but the thing is they're so driven by winning. It's such competitive characters. So you'd have, you know, the old regime, there was Christian Horner, Adrian Nguyen, also Jonathan Wheatley, and they were so, you know, driven characters. But there's so many others still remained.

You know, Pierre Vashe is very competitive. Jambiasi is very competitive. People talk about the engineers sometimes at the team, that one in particular being almost more competitive than the drivers. So even when they were looking like they were struggling, you know, and the car was blowing kind of, hot and cold. The fact there was a sniff of a race win here and there made them believe they had something in this car that they could unpick to be a winner. So I don't think they ever felt that the McLaren were running away with it. They felt it was tangible, this opportunity to be able to this narrow operating window had this car of which being able to sort of widen it or being able to

get to the core of what the issues were with the RB22. And so there was never that conceding to McLaren. Even when I think all of us watching, we're conceding to McLaren. It's just not the Red Bull way. There's a sniff of a chance of being as competitive. I mean, always going for the win. But then after that, you know, P3 is the best you can do. Go for that.

Aspire for P6 is the best you can do. There's always that monumental drive to attain the best humanly possible. Yeah. I seem to remember. I think it was maybe the Hungarian GP where Red Bull were not on it at all. And was it for Stappar might have been eighth in that Grand Prix. but it felt like probably the most he could have got out of that weekend. And I don't remember him at least over Team Radio afterwards,

being massively disappointed in the result, knowing that actually that was probably the maximum that could have been achieved that weekend. Ghost to show, I guess. I think, was it that race that he said he didn't expect to win a race again all season, I think, after that one? I'm pretty sure that was that point. So that shows, you know, where they were.

And not even he had a sense that it was going in this crazy direction. actually ended up going in a few weeks and months later. I got to ask about the change in leadership at the top because I think that would be fairly significant regardless of which team you're covering, but this is not only a change at the top, it's a change of someone at the top who'd been there since the start 20 years. Did it feel as monumental as it should have been?

Yeah, when it happened at the time, it was an absolute wow moment. Obviously, we knew about some covert controversy and sort of infighting and not everyone totally, happy at the top there, all these big figures. But then when it happened and Horner was, you know, the only leader people had ever known was, was gone. So I remember turning up to Belgium for the subsequent race and, you know, normally in the paddock, everyone's excited about the driver arrival, all the photographers are there, but actually there was more interest in Lauren Mechia's arriving and, you know, while they knew him, he wasn't as, you know, larger

alive character as a Zach Brown, Toto Wolf, Christian Horner and who was this guy and was he going be able to steady the ship to turn things around and that was it was just fascinating to see that and actually to see how quickly I mean he always says it's not when I remember when I interviewed him it's not what is the Laurel Mechiaz team I think I asked

to what that is or what is the identity is he never thought there's anything about him I think you remember him a few times talking about how it had zero impact which is just not true he's downplaying it but but he he quickly got to know everyone quickly got to work out where fixes might have been needed and you know

their turnaround is credit to him, but also credit to the previous regime because some of that turnaround stuff was happening behind the scenes and action before he took over. But yeah, I'm very impressed by his leadership and also fascinating to see how contrasting a leader he is to Christian Horner. That leads me nicely on to the next question, really, because I think the last time we spoke, it would have been August,

so he wouldn't have been in the role for very long. Did you see the way in which he approached the role change over those months? Like did he start? to, I don't know, put his idea of what this team should be the longer the season went on? No, I actually don't think so. I think he's very clear-minded in who he is as an individual and as a leader, and obviously he had experience of that in different roles, you know, with RB and also FIA, etc., things.

So he was very clear, but it was as exactly as you'd imagine, an engineer taking over from a former engineer, or taking over from a former racer. And immediately there is that difference. And you could see how it changed things for some people. So for the engineers around there, they had that more kind of hands-on-y approach, being able to go more in depth. And I think, well, I know Vestappen and Sunoda appreciated that.

So that was that sort of technical know-how he was able to bring in. You know, little facets that were different. He would go into the garage at the start of the weekend and talk to all the mechanics. They'd just be a little debrief and try and pick up. take everyone up and this is what we'll do. He probably saw a couple of them, I think, got filmed by by Red Bull they put on their channels. And so there was that, there's just little facets, but it was the engineer, I think, approach was the, was the biggest difference. And that stayed,

you know, that was from race one right to the last race, so the ones he was in charge of. As you alluded to, you got the opportunity to speak to a wide range of people, wide range of roles during the year. Yeah. Is there anyone, without naming names, was there anyone that you enjoyed speaking to the most? Like a particular, a particular role, maybe, that you enjoyed speaking to that really got under the heard of what was going on. See, I reckon I could answer this so many different ways on a different day. But let's just go with the Kala twins then as an example. Matt and John Kala, Matt since left the team,

but they were the number one mechanics, one for Verstappen and one for Lawson and then Sunoda. And just having these twins at the front end running each car was lovely and seeing their rapport together, their competitiveness together. They're actually really quite competitive brothers, whether that was playing rugby as kids or being in the classroom at school or being on either side of the garage. But also while there was competition, there was that collective behaviour. And I found those two fascinating.

And they're very funny characters. They brought such really good energy. But, I mean, it's sort of wrong to single one out. So I've slightly fudged up by singling two out. That gives me my best possible answer. Can't blame you for that. I can't believe that. Last question really on this is based on your expectations going into this year,

was there anything that really stood out as a massive surprise? You felt something was going to be a certain way going in and then you get under the hood of Red Bull and it's just completely different. Maybe there's a naivety, but just understanding the sheer number of people doing stuff to make a car go fast on a Sunday. I know that sounds utterly ridiculous because you know the sum of the parts, but just being able to go into the factory and see these room full of designers with different bits on their screens,

which my brain isn't big enough to fully comprehend because I was never very good at science and engineering. But, you know, or seeing someone making, you know, someone in the composites team to then suddenly going to advance technologies to power trains, just all these amazing, amazing individuals. And I think the sum of the parts is the bit that is hard for a Formula One team to tell. feel like we were able to, able to at least, at least tell that a bit more. Yeah,

I feel like because of the visibility the drivers get and maybe the team principal gets, it is easy to forget the sheer amount of people working that don't get that visibility, but are integral to an F1 team success, which I'm sure you'll go into depth with your book, inside Red Bull Racing. So that's out 21st of May,

but I believe it's available to pre-order now. Yes, absolutely spot on. Yeah. Brilliant. And we'll make sure that. we've got a link in our description as I'm sure many will be interested to go away and have a read of that. Thanks very much for coming on again, Matt. Really appreciate it. And we'll have to catch up again soon. Lovely. Well, thanks very much for having you on again. Appreciate it. No problem at all. Welcome back, everyone. That was Milton Keyes, mate.

Mate, it's the best of ever seeing it. A bit breezy out there, but I got the T-shirt from Oscar and everything. It was a really good trip. How was Matt? Oh, it was great. Yeah, delightful chat. It's always good to speak to him. What a year he picked to go behind the scenes at Red Bull, by the way. I know we mentioned it in the interview, but the amount that happened, Liam Lawson leaving after two races, Christian Horner leaving after 20 years, and then Vestappen competing for a title that didn't look possible halfway through the year.

Like, great choice a year to pick. Yeah, lucky boy, very exciting. I'm very looking forward to seeing what he has produced and giving it a good route. Indeed. Shall we move on to Mr. Zach Brown, of all people? because he believes Formula One would be making a mistake by allowing another AB team-style alliance amid interest from Mercedes in taking a stake in Alpine. Earlier this year, reports emerged that Mercedes was considering buying into Alpine

by acquiring the 24% share currently owned by the American Investment Group, Ocho Capital. He said, in today's day and age, if that's permitted, I think it runs a real high risk of compromising the integrity of sporting fairness. and what would turn fans off is if they feel like there's not 11 independent racing teams. I've been vocal about this from day one. We've seen it play out on track in a sporting way with Daniel Ricardo taking the fastest lap point away from us, but we've also seen it in IP violations on the racing point break ducks.

We've seen employees move overnight, where we either have to wait and sometimes make financial deals, which then impacts us in the cost cap. So when you see other teams that move from one to the other and then also without financial compensation, that's an unfair financial advantage. That's an unfair sporting advantage. Do you think it would run the risk of compromising the integrity of the sport if this Mercedes Alpine deal did go through? There is nothing that I agree with Zach Brown more than this scenario that he is posing. I've been very vocal for years about AB teams or teams with too much affinity.

and Red Bull and what was Toro Rosso that then became what Alphatari and then became R.B. and racing balls, whatever you're going to call it. They are the prime candidate, of course, the prime example of how that happens. We've seen so many times, I mean recently in the 84-year break between Japan and Miami, that we saw team members move from one to the other with no bargaining leave, no conversation, no external need to stop and improve why they're doing something and how it is or isn't fair. Red Bull saw an opportunity.

They saw that there was a risk or a development that needs to happen. They immediately made a change between two what are meant to be separate outfits. And we've seen that on the track as well, you have to remember in, I think it was 2021, where Pierre Gassi was driving a really competitive Alpha Tauri. Yes. And in Qatar, Gassi, I think was in the top five at that point. And Hamilton comes around and it's a nightmare. And then Bostappam comes up behind him.

A-Ram wide? Oh, sure. Yeah, that's what it was. That's the competitive advantage that Alphotari had. Yeah, he just ran wide, Sam. There's nothing else in that. No, nothing at all. Nothing at all.

Nothing at all. Anyway, this is my point, that it stops Formula One being a truly competitive, and you imagine if Braun won 2009, but Braun had, well, the big team of McLaren. And you're saying, you think, well, McLaren won the title with Hamilton last year. It stops it being this fantastic. to see moment because actually they were giving extra. They got given

team members and staff members and development time and updates off the table, under the table, you know, off the cuff is what I'm trying to say, because they have a relationship with that team. It stops it. It must have harsh turned around and they win a title this year. You go, wow, incredible. Kamatsu's absolutely cooked up a proper roast dinner

and we've all sat down to eat. And it's an amazing thing. But if they're actually just a pure bean team of Ferrari, one, it can never happen. And two, it would take away from the significance. of it happening because they have had assistance and genuine collaboration between two teams, even though they said they don't. I hate the idea of Totoa, Bion to Alpine.

I want Alpine to become a real mainstay of Formula One, whether they're under the name of Alpine or it's another manufacturer, whatever it might be. I want them to be a purely independent outfit. I don't think it benefits Formula One by having that link. We already have too much reliance on the likes of Mercedes around Formula One as it is. They're a brilliant part of Formula One. I love that they are a part of Formula One,

but we do rely on them heavily for a lot. I just want to make sure that we are competitive in every single garage. And every single team, in theory at the start of the season, could do something special and go on to win a title. And we're already going with one team that isn't going to happen. I don't want that to be the case with two. Yeah. We're aligned here and we're aligned with Mr. Zach Brown.

And so that's not always the case. Like, I still haven't forgiven Zach Brown for the world champion hotline incident. But, yeah. So we don't always agree with Zach Brown, but today, today I am. There is a reason in other sports why there is such an effort to ensure that teams that have shared ownership are kept as separate as they possibly can. Other sports have their issues with that as well. Don't get me wrong, but there is a reason why there is an effort there.

And it should be the same way in F1. Like we already have subtle power when it comes to supplying engines with Mercedes and Ferrari supplying these teams of engines. And in an ideal world, I would love, it doesn't really matter how many teams, 11, 12 teams that are all independently powered by themselves. That would be great. But I also appreciate that's quite unrealistic, at least in the short term. So this should be the extent of, you know, the way in which two teams can be aligned is that one is giving the other their power units. I don't think it should go any further than that. Mercedes argument will be, it's 24%. This isn't as bad.

bad as Red Bull Racing Bulls. That shouldn't be the target. Like that shouldn't be the, we need to be under that bar. Like, no, you shouldn't be. No bar. No bar. Limbo is banned here.

It's on the floor. You can't get under it. Come on. Also, once you open the door as well, it's easier to change things as you go. As soon as, let's say, Mercedes, get this thing done and they own 24%. That makes it far easier for them to then

potentially gain more. to get their foot in the door in terms of decision. Like, it's just, it becomes a lot murkier as soon as that first move is made. It is really sad that Alpine, if are continuing sort of down this path, like in an ideal world, even if they are selling to groups like Hotro Capital, as soon as Mercedes declared their interest, they should have gone, no, get out of here. We have no interest in that. We're here to win.

We have championship ambitions. Like, McLaren still have championship ambitions with a Mercedes power year. unit, that can be done, even if I don't love it and wish they'd stayed with their own. That by itself is fine. But as soon as you give up a chunk of your team, that's another thing entirely, which is very disappointing that Alpine, even if they don't go through with it, the fact that they're considering it, I think is quite poor. And look, we won 11, as it is at the moment, 11 teams with an equal theoretical chance of

winning a championship. And we want things like driver skill and efficiency within the team in terms of. of upgrades and the like, we want that to be the deciding factor. And it kind of makes the cost cap a little bit pointless when you don't follow through with it with this sort of thing. Because, yeah, you can say every team has an equal footing. But then when you have the situation you outlined where G.P. Lambiasi has to wait a couple of years to go to McLaren. And McLaren in the interim even need to run Andrea Stella into the ground or hire someone else to do the job for a couple of years. That is not an equal footing to

Landy who moved from racing balls to Red Bull overnight. There's no cost cap penalty there. There's no waiting around. That's not the same. And that's frustrating for me because then it kind of makes the cost cap a lot less effective and makes me question why you bring it in the first place. Yeah, fully agree. And it's not just personnel.

It is upgrades. It is research. It is drivers on the racetrack helping each other out. It is a fully systemic benefit. It's not just why. small microbe of a part of Formula One. It counteracts every single element of competitiveness. So there's enough interest in Formula One right now,

where something can come from outside and help Alpine or be a part of Alpine or combine with Alpine. There's more than enough investment opportunity. I'm actually surprised that it's taken so long for something to come along and buy a part of Alpine because there's so many investors, manufacturers, teams, sponsors, whatever it might be that want to be involved in our sport. I am shocked that it's having to take two potential investors in the Christian Horner or Toto Wolf to be the ones

to possibly leading investment in this team. I would love to see either a total buyout or at least a partnership with Alpine X, someone else externally. Well, outside of this, Zach Brown also had some comments on Red Bull and the Racing Bulls partnership. He said there were discussions in the Concord Agreement about should, over time, one of the Red Bull teams be divested.

But he also said, I have a huge appreciation for what they've done for the sport and how this was done a long time ago. So I think as long as it's managed and watched, the Red Bull situation is okay. Any surprise here? Because this is something that he's spoken out about in the past, but it doesn't sound like he's very combative here

about this particular relationship. I think he's trying to be political, which is fair enough. You know, you have to play the game a certain way. And you've all remember the way in which Toro Rosso, as it was back then, and Red Bull came about in the sport. You know, Red Bull bought up Jaguar, of course, when they wanted to leave the sport in the mid-2000s.

And I think it was Menardi that went out of business. And it was, you know, they then bought up Toro Rosso who came in and were the replacement. So they saved teams in Formula One back then. You know, we had enough teams on the grid because of the investments that was made 20 years ago, nearly 20, over 20 years ago now. So that is a real positive. And that doesn't shy away from the fact that that has allowed for full running. A lot of drivers to come through.

Bostappen and Bessel. We've got two of our best ever world champions that have come through that program. They have given a lot to the sport and you can't take that away. There are some benefits to the overall system, but that doesn't mean that that sways me. Orzac Brown, I think is quite clear in terms of the overall direction that Red Bull and Formula One should go and there's a partnership. He's also been quite coy with his wording there. I think one of the Red Bull team should be divested. We all know which team he's talking about, of course, but he's obviously tried to play a fair game of, oh, it doesn't matter what you want to do. We'll leave the choice up to you.

You know, it's big Namby. That would be very funny if Red Bull were forced into a corner of like, you have to sell one of your teams and they're like, it's going to be Red Bull. Yeah, we're keeping up. We can't lose racing balls. We can't lose that yellow jumps. Too integral to the sport, man. Gotta keep racing Bulls.

That's where champions are born. That would be hilarious. But we all know what he's guessing at here. So I think he's very right to try not to almost get people's backs up. They go, hey, they did something for us. They did. It was beneficial. But times change. Things move on. We have enough interest. We can have 11 and hopefully in the future, at least 12, genuinely independent competitive teams. I think in the past, that Brown has hated this relationship. I do not think that has changed. I still think he does hate this relationship. And I think his rather mild words on this are, as you put it, quite political for a few reasons.

Number one, we know that it is in McLaren's best interest right now to keep Red Bull happy because they would like GP Lambiasi as soon as possible. If there is a chance they can get him ahead of time by keeping Red Bull happy, they're going to take that. So I think that's part of it. And I think this is maybe a case of Zach Brown picking his battles. And I think there are maybe two key reasons why. Number one, the Concord Agreement that he's referring to was signed last year.

that is in place until 2030. And whilst there might be other ways in which you can get what he once done, that is the easiest way to get it done is via the Concord Agreement, which isn't going to be touched for another five years. So is there much point in fighting a battle that nothing's going to really happen for a few years? Probably not. The other thing is, he's got to wonder and think about who's in his corner in terms of the F1 teams. And right now, I don't think the answer.

is very good for Zach Brown. Because if you look up and down the grid, right, who would support McLaren wanting basically racing balls to be sold to an independent, you know? Mercedes, they aren't going to back them because they are trying to do the same thing with Alpine. They would be really stupid if Mercedes backed McLaren right now. In which case, it would also be really stupid for Alpine to back them.

So that's two teams that aren't going to be in McLaren's corner. Ferrari, in a somewhat similar position with both Cadillac and Hass. They're not only supplying gearbox and engines to Cadillac. They have a technical partnership. It is in Ferrari's best interest to keep that alive. Therefore, I think they would be against this. And so would Cadillac and so would Haas, because they're the two benefiting from it.

Red Bull and Racing Bulls, unsurprisingly, probably against it as well. That's seven of the ten teams outside of McLaren who are probably against you. Whilst I think he's got support from wider fans, I don't think he's got support in the paddock right now. So he'd be making enemies maybe for no gain. Yeah, this is going to end up being a decision made by the FIA or Formula One independently, I think, as part of a different voting process. You know, how Bencilium has come out and declared that V8s will be in the cars by 2030.

I think it would need to be done in that same route. You know, that kind of a, from a board level, membership level of the FIA, we declare that no teams to have more linked than just engine supply. That's the only way I think this gets through in the next decade. Well, that was my next question is, I was going to ask the question, how is this addressed long term? And that maybe is part of the question. But maybe before that, why should this be addressed long term by F1? Because we can as fans say, this is what we want.

They don't necessarily always listen to the fans. What's the motivation for F1 to do something about this? Monetary value, dollar signs, you know, you look at what, what do each team bring in terms of value to the sport. Mercedes bring, you know, global recognition. They bring, um, they, they, they submit authority in the racing world. They, they have huge drivers that race from the sponsors that come in, a massive. And you can say that for a number of teams, you know, Ferrari bring heritage. Maclara also bring heritage and are now bringing up young drivers to get a lot of attention and other sponsors, whatever. And you could do this team after team after team. You get to racing

balls and you say, what do racing balls bring? Dranger and staff, uh, uh, driver and staff training, you know, is fair. Okay, great. There's a place for young youngsters to come through and try all things out. Yeah, sure. Is that outweighed by what a new team would actually bring? And I think massively. I think a new team were bringing so much more value to Formula One.

Formula One, if it continues to grow as a product, we'll start to look at where up and down the grid, its weaknesses are. How can we grow monetarily? And that is by going, well, what market is untapped? Let's say the Toyota-Hast relationship falls through. but Toyota wants to be a part of Formula One, but they can't be the 12th team, where you go, well, we're Toyota.

We make the most cars worldwide. We'd like to be in Formula One. What do we do? Well, you've got racing balls that they do just kind of sit in like eighth place and they never win a Grand Prix and they don't bring a lot. Could be there because then we have another manufacturer that genuinely brings a huge Asian market into Formula One. They're massively supported worldwide and other racing sports.

The sponsorship money is huge, and they could provide another competitive element. and an engine that comes with them because they would certainly make their own. So there is so much more value to be taken from a new manufacturer, taking the place of racing balls, than keeping racing balls for another decade, other than young drivers and staff get a chance to prove themselves. I agree with you.

However, I think it is difficult for F1 to have hard evidence of this. And it is really difficult to get from point A to point B with this. It's not as easy as, I wish it was. this easy because then they might do something. It is difficult to say like 2009, Mercedes were not in the sport. 2014, Mercedes were in the sport and had been around for a few years. 2014, the state of F1 is much better than 2009. That is because of Mercedes. It is very different, whilst that could be true, it's very difficult to actually put that definitively. I don't think right now F1 has the evidence to say they are being held back by racing balls, even if.

if I think, like you, they are. Like, I don't think they've got evidence to say, we're losing money from this, or we're losing maybe another team in the title battle for this, because inevitably there are only a few teams that do feature in that title battle. I think the key for Racing Bulls' future is Audi and Cadillac. Because if either of those two teams,

it was maybe slightly different, but if Audi, let's say, Audi becomes competitive, and they form a rivalry with Mercedes, which feels like underneath the surface is already something that could happen. If that does actually take place, F1 has got some evidence to say, having Audi in the sport instead of someone who's filling the grid up, that has been a benefit to us.

Similarly with Cadillac, if they can become competitive and do something that with respect to Hass, they haven't been able to do, which has really become America's team, and they get widespread appeal across the United States. At that point, again, F1 can say having Cadillac here is a real benefit. You know, we would lose something if they went away. Because right now, if racing balls went away, it wouldn't really hurt them. So I think actually the success of those two teams will inform whether F1 does something in five to ten years' time on this or not.

And we've heard interest from a lot of teams, well, I said teams, I mean manufacturers of cars that want to come involved. They're out there. BYD from China, for example, want to be able to be able to. blow into Formula One and that would open the Chinese market. You see how teams utilize Zhou Guan Yu when they go there, right? The interest is massive and that's a singular driver in a team that's not competitive in terms of like he isn't racing at the moment. You bring a whole Chinese team into the outfit.

You particularly actually get two Chinese drivers to be racing in Formula One. That's a market of over one billion people that you suddenly tap into. And that's a lot of money for a rising nation in the sport. So it's, they are. We know they're losing out, but you're right. the way that F1 actually quantifies it and proves it is a very different story. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with that in the upcoming years.

Wouldn't expect anything yet imminent, folks. Let's take our final break on this episode. On the other side, it's Formula Fortunes. Yay! Welcome back, everyone. As promised, it's time for Formula Fortunes. Yes, Formula Fortunes. So we asked F1 fans.

in our Discord, by the way. So if you're not already as part of our Discord, this is the sort of thing you can get involved with whenever we do this sort of a segment. So we put the form in our Discord, asked you to answer eight F1 questions with your opinions, no right or wrong answers. And we have to guess what the most popular answers are. So it'll work that if we get the fourth most popular answer from you, we'll get one point. If we get the third most popular answer, we'll get two points. If we get the second most popular answer, we will get three points. And if we can find that elusive best possible answer, we will get four points. And it's myself versus Sam this time. So you've got a new opponent, Sam, in me rather than Harry. Another person to lose to. We'll see. We'll see. So are you ready?

We've got eight questions, Sam. I'm ready. Let's go for it. We've got our whiteboards ready to go. So if you are, if you're watching on Patreon, that's where all of the full video episodes are. you'll be able to see our answers, but we'll... Actually, we're not going to say what our answers are for audio listeners, we're just going to keep you guessing.

We'll, of course, say what they all. Worst podcast ever. Yes. Our first question is this. We asked F1 fans, who would you most like to see as Max Verstappen's teammate? There are a lot of potentially good answers to this, I think. Oh, how to spell?

Spelling is tough. It's not the easiest thing, to be fair. I can narrow down what your answer is based on, I don't think it's like Hamilton, for example, if you're asking how to spell it. Well, what shall I have to spell that? One L, two, L, who knows. Right, let's reveal our answers in three, two, one.

Okay, we do have, thank goodness, we've got a difference of opinion to start. So you think that people have gone with Charles LeCler, as the person they'd like to see as Max Verstappen's teammate most. I've gone with George Russell. I'm hoping that even though that rivalries died down a little bit, that maybe people are remembering it. Well, young people use social media and they have real short teaching spangs.

I thought no one remembers anything. Thank you, Stefano. Okay, here we go. We've got Kirstie messaging us the answers as we go, just in case you think over us are cheating here. So, and play along at home, by the way. Keep track of your scores. Fourth place, you'll get one point, if you said, Oscar Piastri. 17 votes for him.

Third place, this will get you two points. Kimmy Antonelli. Oh yeah. I didn't even cross my mind. No. Second place. Giving me three points and anyone else three points who said George Russell. Damn it.

It's not damn it for long though. Because the number one answer, Charles LeCler with 27 votes. That's four points for you, Sam. Well done to the people. Well done. You voted correctly. Let's see what the other answers are.

Bungers. Alonzo's kid Max Verstappen I mean honestly like he might be the only one that can contain Max Verstappan Jean Gerard Sebulba

of course Sabalba you know what Subbo would absolutely wreck Max Verstaffa I don't yeah obviously a whole different

kettle of fish strange phrase that is yeah a couple years ago Lewis Hamilton were the top like Oh no doubt

no doubt 2022 we asked that Hamilton tops the chat I also, I was considering Fernando Alonzo there, and that would have got me no points. So, yeah. Sorry if you can hear my tummy rumbling folks over the mic. I am really hungry. It's lunchtime here.

It's lunchtime. Come on. Right. Question number two, we ask the F1 fans, how many races will Ferrari win in 2026? Oh, do I go for the meme? That is a real temptation to go for a meme. Oh, God. So we've had four race.

and they haven't won any of those, we might have another between 18 and 20 to go. Yeah, what the odds? And what do the people think the odds are? As we see with our power rankings, that they tend to vote slightly different to how we would think, Ben. True.

I'm not sure. This is a tough one. I'm not sure about this. We'll reveal our answers in three, two, one. So you've gone with two. Yeah. I've gone with one. It shows optimism.

I can't believe you've gone with two wins and you're the optimistic one here. Well, yeah. I'm trying to think of what the people would think. What do the people think? That's a great question. If you said they will win three races, you get one point. That's the fourth best answer. Third best answer, they will win no races. That gets you two points.

That's the meme. A lot of different numbers in this one. second place. So you'll get three points if you said they will win one race, which I did. So I'll add that to my tally. But this is a recurring theme, Sam, because you said that they will win two races. And that was the top answer. So four points if you said Ferrari will win two races this year.

Nice. Do I need to actually be to keep in count or is someone else keeping count? I'm keeping count. Oh, thank goodness for that. Someone asked, by the way, is this a trick question? Which is a very valid question. Oh, Ferrari. Question number three, we asked F1 fans,

which current F1 team would throw the best end of season party? Oh, that's really tricky. Yeah, it is. Would spaghetti dinner lady be at any of them? Is that what you're going by? Well, you know what, I think it's a fair point here. Right, okay, I have a. answer. Okay. We'll reveal our answers to question number three. In three, two, one. Oh, we're the same.

We're the same. So you've got, we're, you've gone for Red Bull. I've gone for Red Bull as well. What's that a good answer? Here we go. You get one point, if you said, racing bulls. Well, it's never going to be the winging team, is it? Bless them. You get two points. I did consider this one. You get two points, if you said, McLaren. work on my list. I was considering that. Three points, if you said Red Bull. So not the top answer.

Well done if you did get the top answer, which was Cadillac. Wow. Okay. Shout out to the person who said, Aster Martin, because the money clearly isn't going towards anything else. Yeah. What do you mean? It went towards all of those zero upgrades at the Miami GP. I thought, I mentioned spaghetti dinner lady.

I thought that's why Ferrari. he might get a bit more a shout. A lot of pasta. You know what? No party is complete without a bit of pasta. And pasta makes you go faster. So they must start eating it

because clearly they're neglecting their natural dish. pasta makes it faster. Right. Question number four. We asked F1 fans, what is the most overrated circuit on the current calendar?

Oh. We got to get into the cycle. You've got to get into the minds of the people, Sam. No. I know. Psychological war. fair here, Ben.

That's what we do best. You're so quick on your answer. Okay. All right, okay. Here we go. I'm ready. Okay, here we go. What is the most overrated circuit

on the current calendar? Our answers in three, two, one. Oh, good. We've gone for the same again. No points lost for me. No points lost for you because we have both gone for Monaco. I was really unsure on this

because there are people that don't rate it at all. That was where my... And that was my initial thought was, I'll go Monaco, because people don't like it. But actually, is it so overrated by people anyway that they wouldn't have said it so underrated, overrated? You know what I'm saying? Okay. So you get one point at home if you said SPAR. That's a fair shout.

I do think, you know, SPAR 50 took at the time could be a bit of a dud. Two points. If you said Las Vegas. I know you very much disagree with that. You're wrong. Three points. I've got to say this probably would have been my second answer if I didn't go with Monaco. Three points if you said Suzuki.

It did come up in my top three overrated tracks recently. But I think of all the questions we've had so far, this is the most overwhelming top answer. 38 votes if you said Monaco. So we are both correct this time around. A lot of different tracks mentioned, by the way. So the likes of Abu Dhabi, Miami, Albert Park, Austria, Baku, Bahrain, Barcelona, Canada, China, Zambort, Cota, Hungary, Jedder, Mexico, Monza, Qatar, Singapore, all of those getting votes. Also, six votes for Silverstone.

That's just almost every track on the grid, someone's gone, I don't like that one. Probably just your rubbish on the game or something. Of those six people, by the way, who put Silverstone, we are banning five of them, because one of them did put in brackets, don't ban me. So we are bound by what they said. Was it Harry Ead? You know what? It might have been.

It'd be so Harry to just fill that out and they're not. not tell us as well. Yeah, it would have been. He just plays along secretly. He wouldn't have voted for, won't have voted for Monaco, that's for sure. No, that's true.

So at the halfway mark, Sam, you have a lead of 15 to 13. High scoring so far, though, possible 16 points. Maybe we know our list as well. Maybe. And maybe that's going to be, that myth is going to be busted

in the next four questions. Question number five, we asked F1 fans, which current F1 driver would survive longest on a deserted island? Oh, my gosh. To be clear, that's an island without any people on it,

not an island that is made of Turamisu. Would you like that, Ben? You know what? That wouldn't be a bad island, would it? I don't like Tiramisu. I don't mind him. I quite like it. You don't drink coffee.

Why do you like all of these coffee-flames and things? In fact, I don't drink coffee. I don't even say I don't like coffee. I just choose not to drink it. Oh, all right. Yeah. I actually need to think of an answer here, don't I? Yeah, I'm not one.

I'm sat here. I don't know about this one. I'll stick with it now. Right, our answers in three, two, one. Okay, yeah, that's the answer I probably should have gone with. You've gone with Alonzo. I've gone with Nico Holkenberg. Holkenberg.

Okay, here are the answers. One point, if you said, Max Verstappen. Two points, if you said, Oscar Piestri. Okay, I'm sensing a theme here. Three points if you said, I didn't think of this guy at all. Should have done. Three points if you said, Valteri Bottas. Oh, yeah, my guy would literally live on the island.

But four points, which means only one of us is getting points here. Oh. And it's you. Four points for Fernando Alonzo. Well done, team. Well done, Team Liska. Shoutouts for Alonzo because he just wouldn't age, which is very true. Alonzo, because he's already been surviving for so long

without absolutely no resources. This happened because he'd just devour a friend and foe. And honestly, the right answer might be someone who just said, none of them. Have you seen the lives these men lead? It's very fair. I think hopefully what us would either be naked or cycle around the island a thousand times. Shout out to someone who said, who cares. That's honest because, folks.

I appreciate the honesty. I think Holkenberg would do all right, to be fair. I'm glad you do. No one else does, but. Question number six, we asked F1 fans, how many drivers championships will Kimmy Antonelli win in his career? He could be around for another 25 years.

He could be. And in 25 years, I will be older. We all will, if that's any... Not Fernando. Apart from Malonzo, yeah. His child would actually be older than, him at that point. That's how it works. This is a tough one. Yeah, it is tough. Because obviously,

it's hard to understand what the people listening might clearly. It's quite benign, isn't it? It's like it's just a random arbitrary number at this point. Yes, but we'll have a go at guessing that arbitrary number in three, two, one. Okay, very close. Sam, you've gone with four. I'm going with five. Yeah, it sounds really silly. Four feels like a standing amount of titles for a driver to wing. Five. almost feels like a bit of elite level. Just really greedy, man. Yeah, like, you know, there's not many that get to five.

Okay, I could really do with some points here. So let's see what we're looking at. So if you said four championships, you get one point. I'll take it. Yeah, you will take it because I'm not making much ground up on you because if you said five championships, you get two points. Ah, all right, at least you're on the board. So we're not, neither of us have got the top two answers here.

Three points, if you said he will win two championships. Okay, slightly less optimistic than we are. And you might be able to guess based on the range that we're talking about here, what the top answer is. Quite an overwhelming lead here, 56 votes, three championships. That will get you four points. Wow. Okay.

Yeah, it feels like middle ground. Yeah. I like how you were closer to the answer and also you've got fewer points. Ah, you go, that's my life. Someone said just all of them, which I don't think that's how that works, but appreciate that answer. and also more than George, someone said, which... Correct, possibly.

Not quite a number, but thank you anyway. Question number seven. We asked F1 fans, which current F1 driver would make the best commentator after retirement? Okay, do I go for, genuinely speaks well and understands the game, or do I think of meme? Do I think meme? Half of my life.

Do I think of the memes? Always think of the memes. After retirement. as well. Okay. I'm going with... My answer is not what my answer would be. I'm trying to think of what the people are thinking of with all of these. I think this person would be a good commentator,

but there's someone else that I would have maybe number one that I've not put down. Okay. I'm on the rooftop shouting out. Ben, I'm ready to go. Love that. In three, two, one. Okay, we've both said George Russell. Jorge Roussel.

Yeah. I wanted to say Carlos Stein's... So do I. But I think the people will go Russell. Oh, goodness me. This is an interesting one. So you get one point, if you said any of these three drivers, they're all tied for fourth place.

Valtry Bottas, Max Verstappen and Oscar Piastri. We've then got a tie for second place. Wow. Three points, if you said, either George Russell or Carlos signs. Oh, okay, fine. So those would have been my two answers, maybe your two answers, which means we have been beaten by something.

It's close. 23 votes goes to the number 23, Alex Alburn. Interesting. Four points if he said in. He wouldn't have featured in my top four. I can see it. That's fascinating. Okay.

Yeah. I'm not in a good spot here, am I? How far behind are you, mate? Too many. Are you sure you want to play? not going to recommend double points. That would not be in your best interest. Yeah, one more question.

This is all wrapped up, but we'll do the final question anyway. I am fascinated by this one. Yeah. Honestly, this is just market research that we're just managed to get into a game. This is the survey that Stefano keeps talking about. Yes, because question number eight, we asked F1 fans on a scale of 1 to 10, how entertaining has the 2026 season been so far? I do not know what to go.

And because of that, you'll understand my numbering a minute. Okay. What have we said in three, two, one? Yeah, we've both gone with six out of ten, which I am absolutely putting upside down if the correct answer is nine. Oh, yes, same. Even though it's back to front. Never mind.

Fourth place. You get one point. if you said five out of ten. Two points, if you said, six out of ten. Yay! Three points, if you said eight out of ten. Wow. And four points, if you said the answer that I was thinking,

I should probably actually put, seven out of ten gets you four points. Everything's always a seven out of ten, man. No one goes for six. It's a Lenk of my friend. Yeah. I should have had that ready to go, shouldn't I? Yeah, you really should.

The actual average score, by the way, thank you for working this one out. Kirsty 6.2. So we were right, actually, Ben? Yes. I'm going to take that as a moral victory. Only two votes for one out of ten, and no votes for ten out of ten.

I mean, I don't know if any season ever is a ten out of ten. Yeah, I mean, that's tough to achieve. That's every team winging a race for the first 11 races, you know? So maximum possible score is 30. I believe. And the scores at the end, Sam, 25, me, 20. I'll take it. I will take it.

I concede. Bring Harry E. back, that's what I say. Oh, you want a challenge. You want a real challenge. Let us know if you scored more than 25, by the way, playing on at home. Because, yeah, like I say, maximum score of 32 there. I think that's going to do it, Sam, for Formula Fortunes and indeed this episode. But we're going to be back on Sunday.

hopefully you enjoy that show folks that's how your thoughts there's a few open topics um let's know what you thought of having a guest on the show as well it's always nice to get some feedback because we haven't done it for a little while so you know do get involved to give us some feedback join the chat in the discord the links in the description below follows us on social media late breaking f1 and if you want to help the show bring better quality show better equipment we can go out and actually see things and bring that content to you then patron is the best way to do that it's a really little cost for you you get a load more entertainment and content and things like classic race reviews, extra episodes, but it invests in the show and we then can bring you

better content to come back out, which we really appreciate everyone that already does that. So thank you for the support that you already give. It really means everything. We'll see you again on Sunday for the next episode that we're going to be doing. I can't wait to talk to all day. In the meantime, I've been Sam Sage. And I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late.