The Lazy Genius Podcast - #102 - How to Make a Decision with Emily P. Freeman

Episode Date: April 1, 2019

This week I’m joined by the Lazy Genius Collective mascot, Emily P. Freeman. (Kidding, but not because you can play a drinking game with how many times I talk about her on all the platforms. ) Her new book The Next Right Thing comes out tomorrow, April 2, and what better way to celebrate than to have her on the podcast?! We’re talking about making decisions and how to find peace in those decisions when we don’t have much clarity surrounding them. Companion Links Follow Emily’s sister The Nester and the Internet’s resident ray of sunshine Bri McKoy on Instagram. Buy Emily’s new book The Next Right Thing, which comes out April 2, or pre-order it today (April 1) and get pre-order bonuses! The three episodes of The Next Right Thing podcast I mention at the end: Learn to Walk in the Dark, Take Off Your Crown, and Let Time Be Your Friend. There's no transcript for this episode. This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today's episode 102. We haven't named this yet. How to make a decision. I like that. We'll do that. How to make a decision.

Guess what? No. I said words already. Guess what? I have someone with me. You guys, it is the resident drinking game person. How many times can Kendra say, Emily? P Freeman in a podcast episode.

And she's here. She's here, you guys. Emily's here. I feel like I'm your mascot. Can I be? You can totally be the mascot. Yes, it's so exciting. You guys, Emily is here to talk to us today about decision making because her new book,

The Next Right Thing, is coming out on April 2nd. Here's the thing. You have been helping me make decisions since before you started the Next Right Thing podcast and before you wrote this book. And so I'm just really. like geeking out over the fact that everybody gets you to do that for them now because I don't know how to make decisions without your help. Oh, that's funny. But you know what? It's weird. I feel the same way about you. Oh, really? Right. It's like it all, it gets very meta. It comes full circle around.

It's very strange. I have a decision to make, I need to call Kendra and my sister. Like, and that's just, that's the way it goes. Right. So it's so fun because now you can kind of call Emily by having this book in your house in your hands. I love it. So fun. Okay. So. So. Okay. So. So. So. So there's a chapter in your book called, it's chapter 13, don't rush clarity. And I really feel like the lazy genius listener is not a super huge fan of that phrase because they like clarity. I know. It's kind of like, but then at the same time, we don't want to be like a slave to clarity. And that's where we're so tired.

Right. because we're looking for the thing that's going to make everything makes sense and we can't find, like we're frantically searching for the thing and we can't find the thing. So if I would love, that chapter was like a huge thing for me because I realized how much I seek after clarity. I didn't always know that that was like,

oh, this is what I'm looking for. Right. I'm on the path for clarity rather than the path to something else. Right. Clarity becomes the goal. It comes the goal. Right. Which in some ways,

and in some situations, is great. But I feel like we've had a lot of conversations, Kendra, where we'll be talking about something you want to do or need to do or need to decide. I love the look going on your face right now. I'm just not sure what you're going to say. I'm excited. Go ahead. This is so fun. This is so fun. And then we'll talk like usually we'll ask you some questions. We'll talk through, you know, because I think it's nice when you have a decision to make to be asked questions. Because what I've discovered is a lot of times as someone, like if I'm the person who has a decision to make, the truth is probably that the truth is somewhere within me.

Yeah. But the trouble is I don't always have the capacity to uncover it by myself. Yeah. And so sometimes when, like if you're a person who's listening to a person who's trying to make a decision, the pressure is not on you as the listener to help them. The pressure is just the only invitation, really, not pressure. The invitation is to begin to ask that person some questions. Yeah.

Not for your sake, but for their sake. And so when you and I have been in conversations like that, I think I wouldn't say half the time at all. But a percentage of the time that is significant, we'll say, you sometimes I remember you will come out of the conversation. You'll say, you know, this decision doesn't need to be made right now. Like I, it's because the motivation to make the decision for a lot of us is to have the decision made. Right. Rather than even the thing that the decision is going to lead to. It's just we don't, so many of us don't like walking around with an unmade decision because that has a lot of power over us.

Yeah. It's kind of like, I remember you saying, I don't remember the first place I heard it. It could have been in one of those conversations where you were like, maybe the goal isn't the decision itself. But it's like just noticing how you make decisions. My immediate reaction was like, but I want an answer. And then when you realize like, oh, that's so stressful to keep looking for an answer. and then when you can release that, there's so much more freedom

in not being, yeah, like not having the answer be the goal where you can just like, wait, and do the next, I was going to say, do the next right thing. I was like, oh, wait, it's the name of the book. What an idea.

It shows you that it's a great title, right? It's such a good title. When it just falls off the tongue. Oh, my gosh, it is. It's like, I say it all the time. I'm like, what's my next right thing? What's my next right thing? Oh, good.

All the time, like a freakish amount of time, because I think so many of us are like, you know, I'm such a life chess player. Every move affects every next move. And when you're trying to like make lunches and handle kids coming home from school in the afternoon, that's a really helpful skill. But when you are trying to decide, like,

what am I going to do with my life? Right. Right. It's different. It's a different ballgame. And so it is such a, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I love in in lazy genius land how having like one thing to hold on to.

And you've taught me the value of naming things. Like just naming that one thing and gives you such, I don't want to say power in like a weird dictator way. What's another word? Well, the naming does offer some clarity. Sometimes you think you're looking for clarity with what to do next, but what might actually be more helpful in some situations. and more accessible is naming something that is unnamed that gives you clarity about that might

even change the decision you think you're trying to make for real right i know we're speaking in like abstracts here but like for example if you are you know because see you found your lane kendra like you lazy about the things that don't matter i always say this wrong genius about the things that matter lazy about things that don't it's okay i would start with the wrong one no it's fine it's good because i love lazy yeah i love the lazy part so much right by the way when i think of lazy genius all I can picture is I always just picture Nick Miller from from New Girl who's like she walks around like a lazy genius. That's how I hear it in my head. Like she's some kind of lazy genius. Nick Miller is so good. But all that to say, we run. The idea of naming something that's

unnamed. For example, if John and I are trying to make a decision like, okay, so our son switched school several years ago from the local public school in our neighborhood to a charter school which is where our girls were going like oh it'd be so great to have them on the same school and we put him in and then we had to make a decision of whether or not we were going to put him in like the move-up classes because he did really well on some testing or if we were going to leave him in like the regular non-move-up classes and I look back and I feel like I made a decision differently than what I wanted to make like looking back I probably would have chosen to not put him in the move-up ones but we had some advice we heard and it felt like it was a

pressure quick. It was one of those decisions where like, we need you to decide yesterday. It's the worst. It's the worst. And so I just sort of did based on what I knew at the time, which is sometimes all you can do. Your next right thing is just based on very little information in a very tight time frame and you just got to move. And so that's what we did with that. But it ended up, he did fine. But, you know, he struggled a little bit here and there. And probably my life personally would have been easier if I had not made the decision than I did. But looking back, I think, if I had had maybe a little more time or had been more aware of the right questions to ask myself, some of the unnamed things that lurked beneath that decision was my fear of putting him in a

class that was too difficult for him and then it would be my fault. And I felt the responsibility of that or not putting him in a class that was like a move up type class and then worrying that he might feel like he's not smart because that's unfortunately the way that our school system times go is that, you know, you put these kids in classes and they, they attach names to what that means. And so I had a lot of unnamed narratives going on beneath the surface of my own mind as a mom. And I think that influence probably my step that I took with him. Every decision we make has some narratives happening. Some of those narratives are true and some of them are not true. But it takes a little bit of time and self-awareness to tease out what the

those are and how they are going to inform what our next right thing might be. So you said that you might have made a different decision. What do you do when you say that? Probably would have made a different decision. That's when I have to practice the spiritual discipline of being relentlessly kind to myself because I am unfortunately not a time traveler. So I can't go back and change it. And I think, too, it helps to remember when it comes to remember when it comes to decision making, sometimes the decision is not the point. And maybe I would argue, I don't know if I want to speak so boldly as to say, oh, be bold. As to say the decision is rarely the point. Like it may be hardly ever is the point. I think the point is us becoming,

is the person who we are becoming. Yeah. It's us becoming more fully ourselves and showing up to the decision making process with everything that we're carrying in an aware way. because that's going to lead us to our most soulful decisions. You talk a lot about, in the book about trusting yourself. Yeah. And I, so the other day, my sister sends me a box, and she's like, all right, I'm getting my haircut. Should I get bangs? And it was like, and those are real important decisions too.

They are. They are. They are. They are. I make her every day, man. I know. And so she was like, I don't know, should I get, and she was kind of like processing it like you do and box are like saying the words out loud

and she's like you know I really like I've had bangs before but I didn't really know how to take care of my hair before and I they weren't cut quite right and I'm a different person now I think I can I think I can do it but like what if it's wrong and it's kind of like the combination of those two things you were just talking about

of like having somebody ask you questions sort of helps bring the thing out and then also to sort of trust that in a lot of ways how you might already be feeling about it is super important to pay attention to. And so I was just like, it sounds like you want to get bangs. Like, what's the worst that can happen? Because if you don't get bangs, I think what's going to

happen. And I did ask her some questions before. I didn't just boss her, but I am her big sister and I'm an enneagram one. So it was like, here's my, here's my space here. But I was like, here's what's going to go. And if you choose to not get bangs, you're going to keep asking yourself if you should get bangs until you get bangs because you really want bangs. Yeah. Right. And she got bangs. Her bangs was so cute. Like, they look so good. And. And, and And, but it was just, it was such an interesting example for me, for me to sort of pay attention to because it was like seemingly such a simple thing. But ever, like so many decisions feel and I think rightfully so, they feel like they're all we can see until they're made. Right.

Or until they're at least addressed in some way. Like until you're like, I'm not going to make that decision right now. That is not important today. Yes. Move it aside. They're toddlers at dinner time, man. They just, it's like, it's like, you've got to look at me. You must, and if you don't, I'm going to nag you.

Yeah, it's the worst, man. Until you lose your mind. It's so annoying. It is. By the way, bangs is such a weird word. It is. Bang times over. I can't wait to see her bangs.

They're so cute. That's a real example, though, that I think we dismiss, but we might have 10 of those every day. Decisions like that, if not 35,000, which is actually the number that is true. If you Google it. I can't even, I can't even cross those fast. make 35,000 decisions every day. And while a lot of those are just second nature, we don't even think about it. Like right now, I decided to cross my arms, but then I can decide to uncross my arms.

I was just thinking that. I was like, my hands are folded in my lap. When did I decide to do that? I don't know. It's subconscious. So you're making these decisions right, but they all weigh something, even the ones that maybe not cross my arms. But like the bang type example, I think in the scope of life, we all know that's not

a life or deaf thing. It's going to be fine either way. But in your life experience, if you have 10 of those a day, it can wear on you. And it doesn't matter if they're, quote, unquote, big deal or not. They still weigh something. Yeah. And it adds to the fatigue that we feel in our decision making. But unlike being hungry or being physically exhausted, decision fatigue doesn't show up in obvious ways. It shows up in like secondary ways. Like, well, I'm just, I'm really irritable or I'm, I'm exhausted. But it's not because I've been working out. It's because I've been making so.

so many decisions today. And we see that when like we're remodeling a house or when we have big decisions for our kids or someone in our family or we are in a time of transition. A lot of times those decisions pile up and, you know, no wonder we can't, you know, choose a toothpaste at the grocery store. Yeah. It's because it's just we've reached our capacity. Yep. That's why I like meal planning so much. It's like, let's make a lot of decisions right now. One time. One time. Right. Which is such a brilliant. It's such a gift that you bring to the table as your, unique self of you teach us how to eliminate, you know, so many of those decisions that we have to make that most of us are, you make one decision when most of us are making 25 to equal the one.

And it's such a gift, which is why how you said you're always looking for clarity in this situation is fantastic. Yeah. In situations where clarity is not a part of the game. Yeah. That's where it gets really frustrating. It's so true. There was a in that chapter, don't rush clarity chapter, which one thing I really I love about the book is like there's so many, there's the perfect balance between like, like an invitation to just sort of reflect and here's a new way of thinking. And then like there's so many practical steps and like think about this, do this next. Like even like number one, do this. Number two, I like, I like numbers in order. Do you like lists.

That was not apparent anyone yet. But in that chapter, when you talk about kind of like trusting, well, I'll just read it, God often speaks in such a regular and familiar way that it's almost too normal to point out. We look for fireworks or signals or confirmation from somewhere other than us. Thinking his direction can't possibly come from us. But he keeps on reminding us that he has made our heart his home. And that's often the place from which he'll make his voice. heard.

You know, I don't want to get all like gender role women in this, but like women are typically not traditionally trusting our voice is really dangerous and it's not always valued. And there are tiny micro oppressions that have sort of kept us from trusting that. And so I just, I love that you're kind of giving us, it's not even just like permission. It is permission. It's more like it's empowering us to be like, no, no, what's happening inside you is God-given. And he's there. And he, this is, this is him in you.

But it's like being able to trust the voice within. Yeah. Because if you can learn to be a person who trusts that voice. Yeah. Then your decisions moving forward are going to come. more naturally to you. Exactly. They just are. And it's, I'm glad you brought that point up about, because I think that's a question so many people have who are, who, who their faith plays a role in their life and decision making every day is that, that question of, but I don't know if it's,

if this is God or if this is me. All the time. I've said that so many times. Like I don't, I don't want to move this because it's something I really want, but if, but if I want it, it must not be right. It must not be right. Right. And that, let's just have a moment to talk about let's just pause and talk about your desire which is your desire no matter if you're willing to admit it or not and I think so many of us think it's selfish our desires are selfish and of course sure they might be but what you want is what you want whether or not you admit it and so it will come out one way or another yeah and if we're unwilling to at least admit in the safest place possible with ourselves and in the presence of God, if we are unwilling to admit what we want,

it's going to come out in ways that are going to be harmful to our health, harmful to our relationships, our families, our work, and so on and so forth forever, because we have these unmet, again, it comes back to a narrative that's happening within me, which is this is something I long for, but it's selfish, so I have to stuff it. How about just bring it out? How about just admit what it is, confess what it is if it's something that you feel like might be not something you should want. But there is a gift in bringing it up to the surface because then you can deal. Then you can say, how is this unmet desire informing decisions I'm making right now? Because it could be that you have this deep desire to be the center of attention.

But you're not willing to admit that. And so secretly, you're making decisions about your work based on things that are going to get you what you secretly want but are unwilling to admit. And in fact, that's not a real soulful way to make a decision. And so I think that knowing what you want and getting what you want are two very different things. And we have to be willing to separate them out that admitting what I want is not demanding what I want, but it is a gift to myself. And it's a first step toward doing your next right thing. Aw, isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art.

I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Okay, lazy genus, when you're thinking about being a genius about what matters, that's not even what it is. Be a genius about the things that matter. I need to say my own tagline, right?

I know. We need to have a written down. I know, right? And then lazy about the things that don't. There is a chapter in the next right thing called Make the Most Important List. And it's one of my favorite things. It's one of my favorite things, the life energy list, because it really does help you, like, develop a practice. And just kind of giving you, like, the simplest tools to go, okay, so here is what drains my energy?

here is what gives me energy. It's sort of the anti-procon list. It is. The list we are used to making when I say, I have a decision to make what everyone would think of is, well, let's make a pro-con list. That's what we should do. Which, by the way, could be helpful.

But to me, a pro-con list is what you do when you have a decision in front of you and you got to make it. And it's like this is a reaction to a decision. and then we're trying to decide what's what's great about it what's not great about it the idea is which list has more things in it and then we decide that way and while that can be a great information gathering tool it's it's not going to be it doesn't have any soul to it I guess yeah it's more facts which is one part of what we think about when we make decisions but we don't just have heads we also have intuition and we also have a heart and so I think to engage those other

parts of our soul um it's important to make another kind of list, which is what I call a life energy list. And I mean, you know, I didn't come up with the concept of thinking about what drains life and what gives life. But I think it is a great tool to use when it comes to decision making. And here's how it works. And you can do it today. First, you choose an area of your life. And it can be any area of your life. It doesn't have to be an area where you have a decision to make right now, but that could be helpful. But let's say you're thinking about your community interaction at your church or like your community relationships. So you choose the category and then you choose a specific period of time.

I think the trouble with if you tell someone to make a life energy list, it feels overwhelming because there's so many categories. And there's what do I, how do I think about? So for me it helps to choose like 60 days, the last 60 days or the last 90 days or even the last month can be helpful. And then a specific category. So those are the two things you choose first. And then you ask yourself two questions. When it comes to this specific period of time and this specific category, what was life draining and what was life giving? And you make a real list.

I suggest you end with the life giving because I've done it the other way and it's not super fun. I'm just like real depressed afterwards. Like everything is the worst. That's funny. But what you'll find happens is like you said, Kendra, is that you will discover there are some things probably really quickly that you know drained life. And there are other things that you know, oh, this was really life-giving.

Like having people over, for me, oh, that was so, I loved that. I loved having people over after the fact. Right. When I reflected upon the experience of having people over, I really am so glad I did it, life-giving. However, two days before they came over, the process of, for me, personally, planning for it and figuring out and making sure I have enough food, all of the stuff, that drains life from me, which is when I come over to your,

podcast and try to clean all the wisdom and all the one-time decisions because I think you're such a genius at that, obviously. So that's something that exists in both places. And I think that's when, once again, asking myself what I want, and not just what do I want, but what do I want more, is recognizing that though that is life-draining and difficult, it's worth it because it's life-giving in the end. And I want more of that in my next 90 days than I had in my last 90 days. That can help moving forward. Now, this is more rather than being reactionary, like a pro con list, it's reflective, it's responsive, it's living a life of response to what brings life. And though we can't always avoid or eliminate the life draining things, that's not a grown-up

way of living, I do think we can eliminate a lot more than we realize. Yeah. Because we, but we're not, again, it's been unnamed. It's just existed beneath the surface. And so we move belong because it's quote unquote what we always do and that's we make decisions based on what we always do because it's easier even though we don't like the thing but it's easier to not have to think and so we just default do the thing but a life energy list can really help inform okay how what are the choices I'm making and how is it actually impacting my daily experience of life I think that process too is so helpful and it's almost like a formula for reframing how you see something which you know, I talk about a lot in like, okay, so we see, you know, cleaning our house.

It's like, I don't have to clean my house. That's a, that's a life drain voice. I can tell. Yeah. Right. Versus, you know, like, when you think about, okay, so it's worth it because I am creating space for more messes to be made and putting, replenishing good things that we really love, you know, whatever.

And so like, I think that when you're trying to look for how to see things in a new way, because perspective, it's like, it's like 90% of it. It's ridiculous. And you're trying, like, and there's not, there's not a lazy genius podcast episode about it or a next right thing podcast episode about it where you're like, I don't have a reframe for this. What am I supposed to do? I think that that, um, doing the life energy list for something that specific for that amount of time, it kind of can help you. It kind of can help you. create your own reframe. Right. Specifically for what you need right then, which again is like more than half the battle. And then it's not really a battle anymore. It's like, oh, this is what this is. This is why this matters or it doesn't matter.

And now I'm going to do my next right thing and I'm going to move in this direction or whatever. And so I just, that's why I love it so much because it's so like practical. It's the practicality we want from a pro con list, but actually does something. Right. It actually works.

And it, but the trouble is, that you have to do it ahead of time. You know what I mean? Now, it could be that you have a decision to make, and you can still do a life energy list in that area of life, but it doesn't feel as action. Like, you know, it feels a little more like this is too smoky. I can't nail it down.

But I have found even doing it, even if you just ask yourself the question in your head or with a person, a co-listener, that can be really helpful. But I would suggest with the list that you actually write the stuff down. For real. I mean, it's so, there's something about seeing it on paper and recognize, even just the, the practical seeing how many things are in the life draining column could be really informative

or the other way around. Like, oh, I had to turn the page for this one. And then I only had one measly lifegiving thing in this area of life. What am I doing? What am I doing? Right. Because you think it's not, like when it all exists in like one big bucket in your head, you don't recognize.

You don't. That there's, yeah, there's such a discrepancy. And the thing is what you might not realize is, oh, I thought I hated my job, but I actually just hate my commute. You can tease out the parts of work that you love and hate, but in your mind, it all exists in the same bucket like you say. So you have this feeling about it, but if you don't take the time to reflect upon it, you don't realize, oh, this is what I don't like.

And it's actually maybe sometimes changeable. Yeah. Maybe not. But if it is, what a gift. I don't really hate cleaning my house. I hate cleaning bathrooms. There it is. Like, I hate it with everything that's in me.

And so to be able to be like, hey, babe, I'll do everything else. Right. Everything else. If you just clean the bathroom. And I bet he does it 100%. Of course he does. And so it's, so you're right. It, like, it's just the craziest thing.

How we think things are so, like, broadly sweeping and, or maybe, or super small. Like, we just don't quite get the context of, like, how we're, how we're perceiving our lives. until we write it down. Right. Until we're specific about it. And so it's such a, it's such a helpful exercise.

Um, okay. Well, I want to ask you because, you know, this isn't a, this isn't a super long show. Right. So we might, I guess we'll wrap up.

We can wrap it up. But I wanted to ask you because I talk a whole lot about, and I got this from you about, um, I encourage everybody to like, just have one guru in different areas. Yeah. Right.

Stop listening to all these crazy people, man. Right. And not even crazy people. Like, great people. Really smart people, but there's so many of them. But it gets crazy when there's so many of them. So many of them. Of your head. Oh my gosh. And so there's, and there's a chapter about that in the book too about stop collecting gurus. Like, oh my gosh. Stop it. We got enough. We got enough. So I,

just for like, just for like a fun, fun question, like, who are some of your like categorical gurus where you're like, oh, this is who I go to for this thing? Yeah, well, you're my food guru. Oh, that's fun. I mean, if there is, and then Brie McCoy is my, like, like stuff like stuff like stuff I need to have in my life that I don't know I need. Guru. That's exactly what she is. That's the perfect name for that. Right.

Like, oh, I didn't know I needed that coffee. I didn't know I needed that set of knives, but I do. I didn't know I needed that jar of peppers. Right. But now it's in my car. I didn't know that spaghetti sauce that cost $1,000 was worth it. But it is. It is right.

Oh, that's good. Yes, she's that. Like so, because I, everything she recommends is great. She's such good taste. So good. And yeah. And you are my, like if there's a. if there's a food baking plan anything in that realm of the world you actually fit a lot of

categories but i'm going to choose that one as my main guru like i just why would i go anywhere else when i've already you know i think i think that's what we all need yeah is we need to find you know people like that and i know you and i share a house guru in my sister the nestor michaelan smith i mean of course like why why would i why i don't understand it doesn't make any sense right like i I used to follow like so many, like, sort of housey people on Instagram. And their houses are pretty. Yeah. And then I was like, why am I doing this?

Because she's the only one I listen to. Right. Because everything she says, I, it's not even that I, here's the thing too that I think is really important about gurus. Is you don't have to agree with everything they say, but you trust them. There's a trustworthiness of like, I trust your motivation in sharing this information. And even if it doesn't quite work for me, you're still helping me sort of think about it in a way that makes sense for me

because you're a trustworthy source person or whatever. That's right. It's such a great thing to have. Like, for example, for a while, the pioneer woman was my like, I have to make a hearty dinner guru. Like, I just, if it was, if it involved meat, you got to call her.

Noodles. Yep. You know, I'm like, I'm going to go look and see what she tells me to make. And I'm just going to cut the salt in half and do it. Okay. So P.S. I use a lot of salt. Yeah. Girlfriend uses so much salts.

I have never made. She's the only person I have ever made a recipe from, I mean, like Salisbury steak or something because that's one of causes favorite things. And who makes Salisbury steak? It was chicken fried steak. That's what it was. Still nobody makes either one. And I followed her recipe to the letter. And I was like, oh, man, all right.

This lost salt. And it was, I've never made something that was too salty from a recipe. Right. but you know sell those bowls at walmart man make that steak that's a good that's a good she's your hearty meal guru i love that that's so good yep that's right oh man the book releases tomorrow april second um and will you tell us about what can happen um if people are listening to this today on april first there is a really cool opportunity for them if they buy it today is that right There is a really cool opportunity.

If they pre-order it right now. I mean, I think. I think it's super cool. Right. So you tell us what it is. I will. Well, we are, we're offering some pre-order bonuses, which means if you pre-order the book, which now it's like, it's just regular ordering the book.

Right. Because it's just, it'll ship and you'll get it the next day or whatever. Right. Which is very exciting. But three things. One is you get the audiobook for free, which I read and recorded myself, which is very exciting. Mm-hmm. And I have P.S.

behind the scenes ready so ready i had to say the word g i f oh man okay and i said gif of course you did right but the audio engineer was like and i questioned it and she was like well let me look it up and the you know the guy who like created whatever then says jiff man kendra i that's what i think the one we landed on was jiff and i have regretted it with the fire of a thousand sons because that's in my book now. Like the peanut butter, but it's not. But it's not. Why didn't I stick with my instinct? Isn't that kind of like, I feel like that guy, it's kind of like when, when Chrissy Teigen was like, actually it's Tygin, it's Chrissy Teigen, but you guys have been calling me Chrissy Teigen. So let's just stick with Teigen. We're going to stick with it. I feel like the guy should have

been like, it's gift. Why wouldn't he do that? I don't understand. It's his pride, I feel like. It's like, that's great that you think that real cute. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. But I did it. But you did it. And I have such regrets. But, and I have such regrets. But, Anyway, so you get that for free. Cool. The audiobook, which is so great because they don't always offer that. But we're thrilled to be able to offer that. And then I created a five-part video course with a 35-page printable workbook all about, all for the purpose of helping you design a personal and communal rhythm of life so that you won't be a crazy person when it comes to the next time you need to make a big decision.

Because hopefully you will have designed a rhythm of life that can support soulful decision-making, which was the whole goal. goal of the class. The class is called discern and decide. Lovely. Appropriate. So you get that for free with a pre-order. And then we also have like a fun behind the scenes video that, you know, we just send a link to you for that, which is just like talking about the book and the podcast and how it all came to be. And I also give a little silly quote unquote tour of my podcasting space, which is ridiculous. But I show it to you and all its glory. Right. So, um, you guys, I can't. All right. So you all know, I don't like, I don't say that I like things unless I'm telling the truth. And remember, she's the drinking game.

Like, Emily P. Freeman, I was, I laughed so hard because I'm working on a book. And I feel, I think that you're like on the second page. Like I couldn't even get two pages in before I was like, Emily P. Freeman says, type, type, type, type, type. Like all the words. So I, you know, I love every book that you've written. Obviously, I've read every book that you've written multiple times. And this is my favorite thing you've written. It is?

It really is. Oh, I love that. It's always nice to hear the latest book is your favorite, you know? I mean, they're all. But your first one was my favorite. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's kind of like, because it's like, I mean, it's like your kids.

Like, you don't want to pick a favorite kid. But these aren't your kids. And I feel like I can say this is my favorite book. I think you can say it. I love it so much. I don't know if it's just because like it feels just so relevant to everybody all the time. It just feels like, oh, we, we've been waiting for this book and we didn't even know it. It's just so, I'm just so glad it's here.

And it's so pretty. You guys, it's like the prettiest book. Full of so many great things. So go to next right thingbook. Nextrightthingbook.com. And you can order the book from your favorite, wherever books are sold. wherever books are sold. I love when people say that.

We were recently in a conversation, I don't know if you caught this, but we were recently in a group having a conversation and someone said, so where can I get your book? And you were like, wherever books are sold. Because like, what else are you going to say?

What else are you say? Like, I don't want to tell you where to get it. You can literally get it anywhere. Books are sold. I mean, really, online, anywhere in person. But yeah, and it's always so funny to see people's eyes when they say, well, when you're like, or Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

dot com or whatever and their eyes get big like it's on your book is on amazon or when they're like my sister's brother's friend who lives in virginia has heard of your book and i had to email you and tell you it's the best thing ever like i only have books in my garage right in virginia is like in a like that's unbelievable i will say though um there is something when i saw um i it was cause i went to like barns and noble for like you know like a date day or whatever and it was so fun because I went to, I was about to say I went to the shelf where the books are at Barnes & Noble.

That's real descriptive. It's fine. So I went to like the section. I guess it was a Christian living. I guess that was the section and it was like, there's a friend. There's a friend. And I pulled out every single one of y'all's books

and did the facing forward and covered up all the other spines. And so it was basically like an entire shelf of just like my friends. I was like, hey, look out. These books are here. It's really nice. It was so fun. So there is a bit of like, there is something fun when you like see it out in the wild.

There really is. But yeah, you can get the book wherever books are sold. Including Virginia. Including Virginia. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, thanks for being here.

Thanks for letting me come. So fun. You're like the only person I will give an exception for I don't do interviews. I know. I love it. Thank you. So fun. It's so fun.

And you guys. Okay. So go to next write thingbook. com to buy the next right thing you can listen to the next right thing podcast i will put three links to my three favorite episodes um in the show notes um learn to walk in the dark take off your crown and let time be your friend those are my three favorites i like like i listen to on like repeat you've double like listen to them more than one time maybe like six oh i think learned to walk in the dark i've listened to maybe six times

I did not know that. Yeah. That makes me so happy. I think so. So I'll put links to my favorite ones in the show notes. And then yeah. And if you're in, I don't, we won't know if there are tickets. So this feels a little risky to say.

It is. Yeah. There's like an event tonight. There is an event. Tonight. This night. Like maybe now. I'm trying to pretend like it's not April fulls day.

It makes me real nervous. It's so funny. But there's an event in Greensboro on April 1st. So if you are listening to this in the morning, and you live like close-ish and there are tickets like you could still look I don't know we just alienated everyone there's four people who that will like we'll be live streaming it probably somewhere or like you know Facebook live or like Instagram yeah no that's great and so anyway we're all so excited so excited about this book okay well thank you guys for listening

I'm Kendra I'm done that same see a genius about things that matter I'm lazy about things that don't bye have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life, it's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life, because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch.

I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.