The Lazy Genius Podcast - #182 Loving People You Disagree With

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

Tomorrow is Election Day. I can’t remember an election in my lifetime that was this contentious and would leave so many people devastated no matter the result. It’s just a lot. And you are a unicorn if you do not know and love someone who is voting differently than you are. We’re all really tender right now, and to top it all off in terms of timing, we’re about to enter the most family/friend-centric two months of the year with all the winter holidays. So I think it’s time for a little conversation on loving people you disagree with. Helpful Companion Links A great resource that has helped me in my life is Pantsuit Politics Podcast and their book I Think You’re Wrong But I’m Listening Emily P. Freeman’s episode on How to Stay Grounded During Election Season on her podcast The Next Right Thing Listen to my conversation with Scott the Painter about loving well when you disagree over on Instagram. An older episode of The Lazy Genius Podcast that is one of the most downloaded episodes to date: The Lazy Genius Navigates Family Tension The Liturgists Podcast with Hillary McBride and William Matthews The Very Good Gospel by Lisa Sharon Harper Download a transcript of this episode. This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode 182, loving people you disagree with. So if you're listening to this on the Monday, it comes out. Tomorrow is election day. And I don't think anyone would argue that it's a pretty tense situation in our country. There is a lot of division, confusion, hurt feelings, and we all kind of just want it to be over. I cannot remember an election in my lifetime that was this contentious and would leave so many people devastated no matter the result. It's just a lot, right? And you are a unicorn if you do not know and love someone who is voting differently than you are. Or maybe you're a different kind of Unicorn and you're the only one in your family or your friend group voting a certain way and are

really scared to even say that out loud for fear of being attacked or rejected or just seen differently at all. We're all really tender right now, myself included. And to top it all off in terms of timing, we're about to enter the most family friend-centric two months of the year with all of the winter holidays. So I think it's time for a little conversation on loving people you disagree with. first off a couple of quick recent resources that have given me personally a lot of hope in this conversation number one is the podcast Pantsuit Politics and their book i think you're wrong but i'm listening their podcast talks about all that's going on in our country from a very nuanced human perspective sarah and beth they break down the history of certain policies and laws and since like they both went to

law school they know what they're talking about it's just the most helpful real soulful, consistent resource when it comes to knowing how to understand our own feelings about what is going on so that we can better listen to our people about their feelings. Next up is a recent episode from Emily P Freeman on the Next Right Thing podcast, an episode called How to Stay Grounded during election season. There's some really good words in that episode. And then another resource is an IGTV conversation I had with Scott Erickson a week or so ago about this very topic. And he shared some lovely thoughts on connection and the humanity in others. It's about 25 minutes long and worth a listen if you haven't seen yet. And if you don't follow me

on Instagram, I'm at The Lazy Genius. So that's where you can see that. And then finally, there is an episode I actually did here on this podcast ages ago called The Lazy Genius Navigates Family Tension. It's not about politics specifically, but just about how to be around people you love when things feel tense. I think that that is such a great episode to revisit whenever you're about to encounter friends or family where you just feel a little unsure of how to be. Okay, so I have a handful of thoughts that can help us all love the people that we disagree with. Politics or not, but especially right now. Number one, remember what matters. Always, always, always. remember what matters. And almost certainly, what matters between you and this person you disagree with

is the love that you have for each other. Love and connection and the preservation of that love is what matters. Now, does that mean that you cannot disagree? Of course not. We too often conflate arguments with broken relationships. If we're in conflict, then things are going badly. But that is just not. true. We're going to have conflict with each other. It is part of being human. So don't expect that. Don't expect if you're in an argument with a parent or a sibling or a spouse or a friend that the relationship is just doomed because you're disagreeing. The beauty of putting the connection under the lens of what matters is that you know that your relationship can survive seeing things differently. That's why it's the relationship that it is. Not because you get it right or it's the same

every single time. You know, it's the same conversation or you agree about the same things. But you make it a point to still connect even when you're different. That's what makes your relationship survive and be what it is. Number two. Choose narration over narratives. Okay, I've mentioned this a few times in random places since I heard this from Hillary McBride. And frankly, I don't even remember where I heard her say it in the first place. It was probably an episode of the liturgist podcast, but I can't be sure. Anyway, but she shared this idea, which has been so valuable in my life since I heard it, and I have been sharing it in lots of random places.

So you might have heard me say this before. But choose narration over narratives. When you are in a conversation or a situation with someone where you, you're starting to feel that rise of discomfort or anger or frustration or despair, run up your spine or make your head hurt or your hands shake or your breath quicken, whatever that looks like for you. When you feel yourself experiencing that, pause. Notice that you're having a reaction.

And rather than let that reaction fuel the narrative, that already runs through your head, narratives like, he just doesn't get it. Or how can she say she loves me when she's talking to me like this? Or I said all the wrong things and I knew I should have kept my mouth shut, right? Rather than letting those narratives run the show, choose narration instead. actually say out loud, narrate out loud to the person, how you are feeling. So instead of saying to yourself, I said that all wrong, you know, I knew I should have kept my mouth shut. You say out loud to the person you love.

This is really hard to talk about. And I don't think I said that the way I hoped to. But you are too important. And having this conversation is too important for me to hide. even though that's what I'd really like to do right now, because I think I just said it wrong. So even though I'm feeling a little vulnerable to keep talking, I will. And I appreciate that you're still listening to me. You see the difference?

You narrate what is happening within you so that your narrative doesn't take you down a path of protection rather than connection. Narrate out loud narration over inward narratives. Thank you, Dr. Hillary McBride for that beautiful, beautiful paradigm. Number three, this is about politics, specifically, and that is to remember the point of government, like for real. Okay, so since we are talking about politics as it sits right now and when we're listening to this, I want to remind you of something that is so helpful for me to remember too. Our government is obviously for the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness,

hopefully, eventually in an equitable way for all people, unlike when how we're our country was founded, right? Because it wasn't for all people. That's our goal, though, is life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. That is what is written down. But in that pursuit, we have different groups of people with different opinions and perspectives and life experiences and values coming together as one to make decisions that serve our country and every person in it the best it can. Our government, On principle is based on disagreement and discussion and compromise. There is literally no way we're going to make every single person happy with every single

elected official. And we shouldn't expect that or even want that, really. We need all interests represented and brought to the table when it comes to what happens in our cities and our states and our country. But I think we often assume that there is one single way to run the government based on our own opinions. But that's just not, to me, at least a helpful way to think about it. We need to disagree. I think that gives us freedom to accept that. We need to disagree. We need to have different perspectives and opinions. Otherwise, we're not working together to find ways to compromise and meet needs that serve the collective, not just the individual. Isn't something we need to travel for, it's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment

with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Think about it in your personal life. Think about your spouse. or your roommate or your coworker. You will never agree on doing everything the same way, ever. I mean, like down to how to load the dishwasher. It's just not how humanity works, right? You will disagree with people on all kinds of things. But being in relationship, it means compromise, listening, understanding. It's true in our families, and it should be true in our country and our

politics. Now, you might think, well, yeah, but there are some things. that should be universal that I'm not willing to compromise on. I get that and I actually affirm that. We need people. We need each other. We need people who are passionate about things to that level, which leads me to point number four. We don't have to take other people's passion personally. We all feel pretty passionate about something in this election probably. Maybe it's about a certain candidate or an issue. Maybe it's about a broader issue of racism, a redeeming civil liberties for those who truly have never fully had them. Maybe it's just, you're just passionate like you're totally over all of this political talk and you are very, very passionate about it going away soon

so that you can breathe and feel like a person. The point is we're all passionate about something. Your family member or friend is passionate about something. And when someone else's passion bumps up against your own when those passions are in conflict, it is so easy to take that personally. That, for example, if your dad is voting for a different presidential candidate than you are and you're both equally passionate about your choices that you can't possibly be in any kind of real relationship, it just feels too personal. You know, it just feels like there's no way we can get through this. That's a real thing. And it's so hard. And I'm so sorry. It's happening. but we don't have to take other people's passions personally. They do not have to be an indictment

on us or seen as an indictment on someone else. Someone else's passions do not have to be an indictment on them, right? Now, it's easy to take this to the extreme, I think, of like if someone is passionate about killing people who look differently than them, then that is, that is an indictment on them. Yes, I think it is in terms of their choices. But if you had a family member who was held accountable for a choice like that and was in prison. If you were the cousin of the shooter who opened fire in Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, or you were the daughter of the man who opened fire during that music festival in Las Vegas, I would like to invite you to imagine what that would be like.

What if someone you deeply love did something egregious? Take it to the extreme if you need to. I believe you would still love them. You would not excuse their choice. You would not condone their belief system. You would not ignore the situation. But you would love them. You would visit them in prison.

You would probably cry when you got a letter from them. And you have to force yourself to open it and read it, but you would still open it and read it. Even in the worst situation, the worst offense cannot dismantle love. It will absolutely change the dynamic of the relationship. Absolutely. those really, really hard differences that we might come up against. But we can sustain love in a relationship that often feels unsustainable. I am not saying that is easy, but I think that remembering that we can be passionate and

see things differently, even things that feel fundamentally opposed and still love each other is such an important hallmark of relationship. We don't have to take other people's passions personally. to a point that the relationship is doomed. Love always wins. Always, always, always wins. This actually reminds me of my own experience from a couple of weeks ago. You might have seen a post I shared on my Instagram feed about who I'm voting for and why. And it definitely caused some tension and turmoil, which I totally expected for many of the reasons that I've just shared in this episode already. We have our narratives and our passions. And when those come into opposition with

someone we care about, even a stranger or internet person, it's really unsettling. But I want to say here in this context, because it feels like just on the money in this, is that some of my favorite interactions during that week were not with people who agreed with me. They were with people who didn't, but who approached the conversation the way that we have been talking about today. There was love, there was expectation of sustainable love. in stranger internet world. There was curiosity and a posture of kindness and understanding. There were conversations with people who understand the tension and the nuance and were seeking to hear and be heard to see and be seen through a lens of what really matters. Connection,

humanity, honesty, and love. I saw that modeled by people. like Leanna, Kate, Amy, Jessica, Meredith. We will vote differently. But we, even as internet strangers, are more connected now than we were before our conversations. That is the goal here with our families and the people that we love and even sort of with strangers, if the situation presents itself. But we have an opportunity to love each other in deeper ways. drawing closer to each other as we face tough situations together when we disagree and realizing that if we can love our enemies, which we're called to, if you are a believer in scripture, we are called to love our enemies. If we can love our enemies, oh my goodness, of course we can

love our families and our people even more in our disagreements. We get a chance to demonstrate that to show that like a political decision or a vote is never enough to wreck a relationship, that our relationships with each other are strong enough and beautiful enough to continue to love despite disagreements. And one final thought here is we end. Number five, I think there are five of these. Am I on five? You are allowed to walk away.

If you're in a conversation that feels dangerous or too hurtful for your emotional capacity in that moment, or you feel yourself like getting so angry that you're going to say something you know you will regret, you are allowed to walk away. And again, choose narration over narratives. You can say out loud to that uncle or brother or mom or friend, I love you and I care about you and your right to care about what you want to care about, right now, I am feeling fill in the blank. And I need a break. You matter to me more than my being right or finishing this conversation right now. So I'm going to go somewhere else for a minute and get to a place where I can remember what

matters most, which is that you and me stay connected to each other. And then you leave. You also get to set boundaries, right? if someone in your life is talking inappropriately or inhumanely about another person, you can leave or you can say this conversation would benefit from speaking about people in a way that reflects their humanity. So please speak that way for the sake of all of us. You can remind people of that.

And if it continues, if disrespecting humanity continues, you leave. Right? I think we all anticipate in our heads and hearts that that's how all to disagreements are going to end with someone leaving, that everyone will just immediately start yelling and talking over each other and disagreeing rather than remembering that relationships can survive and even grow deeper when there are disagreements discussed in a loving, curious, honest way. We assume the worst and then we therefore avoid it all together. And I get that. But as you attempt to love people you disagree with, remember that a way to do that,

is to walk away when you need to walk away in a loving, bounderied way. This is such a light episode, isn't it? But no matter what happens tomorrow on Election Day and how things shake out for our country in the weeks that follow, we all belong here and we all belong together. In her beautiful book, The Very Good Gospel, Lisa Sharon Harper says this. We are well aware that there are only two kinds of beings, creature and creator. We are creature.

God is God. We are not. Therefore, we are not free to do as we please with creation. Our dominion must bow to the will. of God. And if it is to be in the image of God's dominion, then it must be grounded in love. Love binds all creation together. And I would say too that even if you do not believe in the God of the Bible, I think we all recognize the power of love to redeem and heal and bring us together. So no matter what happens tomorrow, we can all continue to fight for justice and what spark

our passion while being sparked on an even deeper level by love and compassion for the humanity in the soul sitting across from us at the table or next to us in line at the store or on the other side of the telephone in a tense conversation. It's love. It's love. I hate to quote a Beatles song here, but like love is all you need. Right. So we can indeed love, deeply love even, the people we disagree with. Remember what matters. Choose narration over narratives. Remember the point of government and of relationship even and how it can actually thrive and become better when we all bring our thoughts to the table. We don't have to take other people's passions personally. And in the midst of all this, you are allowed to walk away. You can still deeply love and walk away.

not mutually exclusive. I hope this episode gives you a little bit of hope as we go into these next few weeks of what feels like uncertainty. Remember what is certain. Remember who you are. Remember the humanity and others. And always, always remember love. Thanks for being here with me today. I appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra, and I'll see you next week. If you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life, it's so dangerous to live that, more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life, because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast

called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.